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Tonight's guest was featured on episode six thirteen because of all the details he had to share about his encounter.

Though we weren't out of time and didn't have time for me to ask all the questions I had for him, So with that in mind, asked him if you'd be interested in coming back to do a Q and A, and luckily he agreed to do that.

Thanks again so much for coming back, Josh, I really appreciate it.

Hey, no problem, Victim, glad to be here once again.

Well, that's great having you back, Josh.

For we missed episode six thirteen.

Please give us a fly over the details of that encounter.

Bring them up to speed.

Sure.

Well, it was the opening day of rifle season in Michigan and I had went up to my camp and I had walked out to go to my deer blind before it was even light out, and I had a few noises on the way there.

It's in a cedar swamp and all that but nothing major.

I got there waited for it to get light out pretty quick.

I would say, I noticed there was a dough there, and I'm just looking down a lane and the rest is all swamp and trees, cedar trees.

You can't really see in there, and so I'm looking at that, and almost immediately I'm hearing what I think is a buck walking to the lane, because they're in rut this time of year.

Well, that went on for quite some time, and I don't think what came out made those footsteps, but out of nowhere a massive looking wolf.

I mean, it looked pretty similar just to a regular wolf, but I mean more like the size of a horse.

And it's not that far away, and it stepped out in front of that dough.

I immediately thought that was a dog man type creature, just because of the size.

And I will say that I have listened to these shows and stuff, and that's kind of what gave me that knowledge and stuff of these creatures.

Anyway.

But so that thing just stood there for a little bit and it went off, and I sat there and thought about it.

I began to calm down of it because it didn't seem like some evil creature and I don't think it was.

But I wasn't ready to walk out yet either, and I just had to gather my thoughts.

I've never seen anything like that.

Well, it was shortly after that I noticed that either the same deer or another deer was there.

I think it was the same one.

And beside that, but more towards me, this black creature kind of I guess it stood up.

I'm not too sure.

To me, it looked like it just formed up really quick, and it was all black.

And this, immediately to me was a dog man.

See the pointed ears.

It faced away from me pretty quickly, and I could see the muscles on its back, shoulder, stuff like that.

It walked away from me and made a swatting motion at the dough.

I could see its long claws.

I don't think it actually hit the dough, but I don't know where that dough went from there.

And then basically it will It turned around, looked at me once and then back, and then kept walking and it jumped high up into a tree.

And then it went and pounced off of that onto a limb that was overhanging the lane, and it appeared to just lay down on its belly and grasp that limb like hug it with its arms and its back legs.

And now, no matter what I did with my scope, I mean I couldn't see where its head was.

I can just see there's a ball there, you know.

And yeah, it was shortly after that.

I watched that for a good while decided to walk out or there.

It was terrifying to walk out.

I did hear something following me.

I stopped.

It got to be too much.

I stopped and yelled at it.

I got my rifle off safety, and you know, just told it, please don't step out or any of that.

Just stop.

I'm leaving.

If you step out in front of me, I might show because I'm on the verge of panic and running and oh just thinking about it.

But you know, I did make it stopped, and I did make it back to the camp.

And that pretty much would sum up a short version of what happened without too many details, really.

And then went together to make for one heck of a long morning for you.

Yeah it really did.

And I don't know if I said before, but after I got back to camp, my dad shot at ear so here I got to go right back in the woods.

But I mean a different section of the woods and with my dad.

But yeah, so it was all a rough warning doing all that.

Well, I'm sure it was.

And after your dad shot that one, at least you're with him, like you said, you weren't alone, So that's better than your past situation.

I'm not calling you a liar, not by a long shot, Josh, but that does sting put.

When that giant wolf walked out in front of it just doesn't make sense to me at all.

Deer just don't act that way when something.

Like that happens.

Do you have any thoughts on why it acted the way it did that I missed?

Yeah, I do have a few, and I mean, like I did say, you know, after that big wolf left, It's not like I seen that dough right away.

I was kind of lost in the thought or whatever.

But at some point I noticed, not that I really seen movement, but I'm looking through my scope and thinking, and I see it there or what looks like a dough maybe the same one.

I'm thinking just because of the way it looks, and I did.

I was really trying to look like, okay, am I you know, is that actually a dough or like, cause so many things can look like deer down that lane with all the mess, but it wasn't moving.

But here's my thoughts on that.

Now, when all this is happening, I did mention that I felt those vibrations in the blind and in my feet and maybe even like up to my knees a little bit.

So I guess my thoughts on the situation, even though it does seem crazy.

But when I heard walking up that I thought was a buck coming for that dough, I don't think was that first big wolf creature.

Now that I've thought about it, I think it was possibly that black creature, dogged man like creature but walking on two feet, and the other creature maybe or whatever it was, I think something basically used infra sound, is what I'm trying to say, and it maybe also hit that dough.

Is really the only time I seen that don't move is when it was out there.

We both heard movement and it turned its head.

Now, I guess that's a theory I've come to because I've heard other stories about this happening to deer and they're just frozen still.

Now.

I don't even know if they could see that huge like wolf creature that could have been possibly a spirit.

I'm not sure, Vic, my thoughts are all jumbled on all of it.

Now.

The last thing I'll say, is there a chance when I noticed that dough again and it wasn't moving.

Am I one hundred percent positive that there was a dough there?

I'm pretty sure, but not one hundred percent because of what's going on in my mind and fairly shortly there's that black creature.

But I do think it was there.

That's really all I can say about that.

If that dog, mean, was there long before you ever thought it was, that definitely would make sense.

If it hit that dough with infrasound, that would cause it to freeze, or it could cause it to freeze like that.

So that's a really good explanation.

Again, we don't know for sure that was what happened, but that would definitely explain it.

Right I and I never want to say anything in definites, you know, I'm open to was that like an infrasound weapon that hit me and it's making me see funny things?

I mean, that sounds a little bit crazy, but I'm open to anything.

I don't know what happened, well, infrasound can make you do that so that's another good explanation.

If you've had a dog mean encounter, I would like to speak with me about it, whether in private or on the show, please go to dogmanthencounters dot com and submit a report just out of curiosity, Josh, why do you hunt from a blind on the ground instead of a tree stand?

Well, for a couple reasons.

When my dad and grandpa built the camp in I believe it was ninety one, might have been nineteen ninety, but either way that my dad built that blind out there and he cut those lanes, you got to imagine this thick, really thick cedar swamp.

I mean, there's nowhere you could walk in there.

You'd have to cut a whole big section if you wanted to get up in a tree and be able to bow hunt or shoot a rifle from there.

But mainly it's just because that's the blind, and that's what was put there and was there for me to hunt as I got older, you know, And I mean that is the main reason.

You know, my dad cut those lanes years ago, put the blind there, and that's just where me and my little brother grew up hunting.

And I've never really hunted anywhere else my whole life.

Yeah, that makes really good sense too.

Yeah, it's much easier to clear lanes on the ground a ground level then to have to climb up and trim branches above ground level.

So yeah, like I said, that makes really good sense.

It sounds to me like that path you had to walk down to get to your blind was pretty darn claustrophobic.

How much shoulder room would you say you have on either side of you as you're walking down that path between the dense brush on either side.

You know, maybe five six feet.

I mean you could say this like I could carry my rifle sideways if I needed to, but you would never walk shoulder to shoulder.

If me and my dad or brother going down there, it'd always be one after the other because it is very thin, and there's so many ups and downs and stumps, and you know, it's nearly impossible to get a four wheeler back there.

So I've never measured it, but it is.

That's all there is is that little lane to get there.

And yeah, it's it's not too wide.

Yeah, I'd say it wasn't.

Yeah, that sounds like it's pretty tight to me.

And if anyone has never been in a cedar forest or a cedar swamp.

The needles at cedar trees drop.

That makes it really easy to walk around without making too much noise if you don't want to make noise.

So that right there makes it even more intense to be in that situation.

I feel for you, I really do.

When you got to the blind that morning, how long did you have to wait before sun up?

Let's see, well I was.

I did get there a little later then I wanted to, but it was still dark.

But after letting my eyes adjust, you know, maybe after five minutes, five ten minutes, it's starting to get light, and then it's slowly getting light from there.

Because I want to say, I left to go to the blind around five forty five am, and then if I'm getting there, let's say between like six and six ten am.

I mean, just to guess, a person could look up, you know what time the sun's coming up in Michigan that time of year.

But I might be a little off, but I do know as I got there settled, it slowly seems like it's already starting to get light after a little.

Bit, so you didn't have to wait all that long.

Then, Yeah, that's good Thank goodness for that, considering what you experienced.

Not all that long after that, when you made it to the blind, you heard movement around you.

You said, how close do that movement seem to be to you?

And exactly how long would you say it was that that movement started after you sat down in the blind.

Actually, when I sat down in the blind, I was already hearing movement in the woods, which to me just was maybe there's bucks chasing does around right now, you know, which this isn't not normally the case.

I mean, sometimes there might be deer there as it gets light out.

I'm normally not hearing movement like this, So I'm thinking a buck is chasing a dough or like I've seen them do, like trotting after one, and they're not really caring about their footsteps and stuff.

So I'm hearing that.

And then I'm also hearing heavier thudding what I think are footsteps, I'm not too sure.

And then it all, you know, it all happened really quick.

I'm listening to all this thinking about it.

Then I noticed this doze there.

I didn't see it walk out, which is pretty normal.

There's plenty of times down that lane.

Or you know, you'll check one lane, look back and you just kind of notice up there one walked out and now it's standing still.

So I, you know, didn't see it right away, but so that happened.

And as soon as I look at this door through the scope, she's paying attention.

I've seen her move her head because these footsteps did kind of stop and go, but not a whole lot.

And then you know, pretty quick me and her both here when are somewhat like deer like footsteps.

But she cocked her head that way, moved a hear maybe, and just kind of stayed like that.

And now I'm just setting up the shot for a buck to come.

But i'd say ten twelve, fifteen minutes.

Maybe I'm hearing that thing walking around and I keep thinking it's okay, it's right there, it's going to come out onto the lane, and it wouldn't.

So I don't know if it was coming up to the lane and you know, moving around deciding what it's going to do, and then that bigger wolf like creature stepped out on all fours.

I mean, we're not talking long probably all together.

I don't know, under an hour though for sure.

Forty five minutes.

Then when I see the dough.

We're talking very maximum twenty minutes until the first creature appears.

When I heard you give us that playbop play on hearing those footsteps moving around you on last week's show, I had a hard time telling if that shook you up or if you weren't bothered by it, considering the fact that, like you said, it could have easily been a buck.

Did hearing that movement shake you up?

Or did you take it all in stride.

If I'm being totally honest, it's both.

Like I'm putting that stuff in the back of my mind, pushing it away.

But yes, I am thinking it, and yes, like I said, once I heard them thudding footsteps, I'm just trying to Okay, don't worry about that, this is probably just a buck coming.

I got it ready, I got the safety off.

I'm really pushing it down.

I'm staying aware, and that is in my mind.

But you know, it's it became harder and harder, and I guess in other situations that's what I try to do too.

If I'm getting scared about something is just no, no, you know, push it away.

But once certain things happen, happened.

You just can't you know, when that wall stepped out, I mean I didn't know what to do with that, and that close and but yeah, I had these thoughts basically right away because I'm not normally hearing this kind of movement all over like that.

So it was a little of both.

Yeah, that makes sense.

Were those subjects that you heard moving around you in a circular way or were they moving randomly?

Well, I didn't ever here, I'm like circle the blind, I don't think.

But for the most part, let's see, I would I would have been facing east.

I mean, they're all coming from like the same patch of woods, like to the right of this lane.

I'm looking down all the which is my land, like, so there shouldn't no other hunter or nothing like that.

And both of the creatures came out basically, well, one stepped out from the right side of the lane, and then the other one seemed like it was there, maybe laying down on the edge of the right side of the lane.

But yeah, pretty much in it.

You know, sounds do bounce around in the woods, so it's hard when you hear a gunshot to pinpoint exactly.

But to me, everything was coming from that same patch of woods basically to my like three o'clock position.

From me, it sure seems to me like you evaluate things when things happened to you.

Sounds to me like you really slow down, take your time and evaluate things instead of just overreacting right off the bat.

Is that accurate?

Yeah, it is one, because I'm hunting, so I'm paying attention to every little thing.

You know, my Dad's always taught me this, and a lot of it really does come from him.

I know he'd be doing the same thing.

He'd be pushing all that those noises further away from his mind, though he'd really want to get the buck.

I mean, and like I did, but in a way, it was more important for me to get a nice buck, and then you know, my dad would be happy.

I'd be happy.

I'm just trying to do what I'm there to do.

But I am like that because I do think about these things, and I don't know, maybe from growing up in what me and my mom considered a haunted house at least for a while, It's just it is a little hard for me to, you know, go through those woods.

I'm not going to do it now, but at the time, in the dark and yeah, I'm really listening and paying attention, and I do.

I've always taught myself not to panic.

That's the last thing I want to do is panic, because then I have control of nothing.

So yeah, I do.

That's always a good quality to have, especially in the woods.

You told us about that strange metallic sound you heard.

What more can you tell us about that?

Well, it was just once, and it didn't seem like it was that far it was.

Now, I can't remember how early on I heard that, Like i'd have to maybe I have it in my notes.

I don't have here, but I'm not sure, for instance, if that occurred after the first wolf creature or before, but I might want to say before.

But either way, it was real quick.

And you know, I've heard about these type of sounds and other accounts of either it sounds like a door shutting in the middle of nowhere or kind of metallic sound.

What I can say for sure it was not a car on this road.

There's no way a car could even get on this road without me knowing.

It's so quiet.

It wasn't a four wheeler.

It's you know, it was just a quick like as if something took its fist and hit it, not super hard, but hit like a some type of a piece of aluminum and just created like that metallic and then sound and little echo.

It was just that once.

And you know, I know people think portal opening and stuff like that, and I did have that thought, but not saying I believe that or know that.

It's just from watching all these shows.

So it happened, and then I was quickly distracted with more footstep sounds and stuff.

When you hear something really strange like that, any guess is as good as another.

All we can do is guess is to what that was.

So it's not like you get any further ahead by trying to do that.

After we recorded last week's show, you realized that you had mistated something.

Please expand on that for us.

Oh, I just was thinking about, you know, the lane that goes from the gravel road to the blind I hunt in.

I guess isn't really as far, not quite as far in as I was thinking, because I know the lane in that same direction on the other side of the blind goes quite a ways too, so I would say, well, I know the way too.

The blind is longer, probably longer than that lane.

Anyway, I think now, I think probably the blinds.

You know, gosh, no more than between two and three hundred yards, because that lane looks like it goes quite a ways, and I know it has to go right to the end of our property.

So I just wanted to say that.

I don't want to say the lane to the blinds three hundred yards in and then this lane that keeps going is another three hundred yards when really it should only be four hundred and forty yards total.

So, and the only other thing is the way I was facing.

I may have said the wrong direction, but I'm facing eastward when I'm looking at the dough in these creatures, and I just wanted to, you know, let that be known that I thought about it and misjudge some yards, most likely because these are all just me guessing the Amoni yards.

Of course, Well, thanks for interest in setting a street on that.

But yeah, we're not going to hold that against you.

I do worse than that all the time, right, I hope not.

Oh no, I do trust me on that.

Did you have any other weapons with you that morning besides your rifle?

No, just my thirty out six bolt action rifle.

I don't even think I had no I didn't have a knife.

No, not that that would have made much of a big deal or brought you any more comfort, Because if that rifle didn't get the job done, very few handguns are going to be all that useful.

So what's the point.

Did you ever happen to notice a mean on that black dog man?

No, if there was one that was small or unnoticeable because of how black he was, I mean, he was so black, But I can't say that I did notice a mean.

No, how about a tail.

I'm pretty confident he didn't have a tail or.

It was extremely short or tucked up underneath them.

He didn't have no long tail.

I'm pretty confident about that.

But if he had one, yeah, I think it was short or he had to tuck somehow.

I think I would have noticed that tail sticking out to the side or down or something.

If you know, if he had one.

Well, I mean, you had so many thoughts going through your head at the time.

I can't fault you for not noticing those things or annoying.

For sure, if it did have a tail or, if it did have a mean, Also, the fact it was so dark, the dog meat was so black.

Now I'm kind of fuzzy on the lighting situation.

How long was it after sun up that you saw it?

Was it full sun up by the time he came along, or was the sun still in the process of coming up.

Well, yeah, it was up.

I mean it was up decent enough.

It's always a little darker in those woods.

But yeah, I mean I could see.

So it's not like trying to think here about the time even I'm not sure, but I had enough light to see him and well down that lane, and I had my scope, so I wasn't you know, It's not like he was blacker than the black outside, Like there was light lighting up the branches, the leaves and all that.

So I had good you know, I could see good.

Well, that can be a good thing, and that can be a bad thing.

Sometimes it's not a good thing to be able to see one of these guys all that.

Well, So yeah, it's kind of a toss up.

It sounds to me like you got a pretty look at his claws.

How do you describe their shape?

You know?

Nothing?

Well, okay, here's what he did and when I seen them, because when he's just walking, I'm not really seeing them.

But when he took his arm back and then swung it around with what seemed like quite a bit of force.

But he stopped, or he didn't stop.

But before he put his arm back in the normal position, I could see, because I'm looking through a scope that I've powered up a little, I could see like where his palm was, and that his fingers were longer, and he had those claws and they you know, all I could really notice in that time is that the separation of claw from fingertip they look to come to a point.

I couldn't tell if they were extremely curved or a little.

The most I really can say is that they looked like they came to a point kind of and they were pretty long.

You know.

You want to expect like these long claws on like these skinny fingers, I guess, and they certainly weren't like a regular dog's claws.

You know.

They were skinny and long and kind of like the fingers.

But you could tell where the claws started and ended.

But you know, that's just kind of a snapshot in my mind.

But I had the thought when he did that, like, yep, there's there's them claws and skinny fingers.

Because I'm like really trying to make sure, like, like, what is this am I just you know, I'm kind of blinking my eyes a little, but no, I've seen that.

Well, it's only natural you would do that and pay attention to them.

You're trying to assess him as being a threat, so you're trying to evaluate how dangerous he might have been.

That's one of the first things you're going to look at would be his claws.

So that makes sense.

You saw him from behind, and you also saw him from the side.

How much of a forward hunch did he seem to have.

Though, Well, when he first stood up, it wasn't overly exaggerated, really, But I guess now that I think about him when he's walking away, Yeah, I guess, because when he did start walking away, I could still see them pointy ears.

But he had to have his head or the placement of his head I'm not sure slightly hunched, but it's mainly like his head that was kind of forward.

Maybe it, you know, his shoulders a bit, but just not as much as maybe I've heard sometimes.

But he had these back muscles that I quickly while he's walking away, I noticed.

So that's at the point I started trembling a bit.

Well, I bet you did.

And please clarify.

You said his head might have been set forward.

Yeah, almost, hmmm.

I guess maybe, like if a person was walking away, he'd be able to see their neck in their head.

Now, when this thing was walking away, I can't see his neck, but I probably And he's so black, it's so hard, but you know, I maybe could see the top of his head and his ears like coming up above his shoulders.

Yeah, and even when he was to the side for a second, I just really couldn't tell you, but I do believe he was had a little bit of a hunch in some way.

It's just so hard to pick out details when you're something's that black.

Even in the daylight.

I mean that light didn't seem to with him at least it didn't seem to matter too much.

Yeah, that's pretty common with these guys.

How tall would you see his ears were?

And did they seem to be more on top of his head on the sides.

Well, they were.

They seem to be up top.

Whether he's keeping them pricked that way, I don't know, but they were probably Let me see it with my fingers, maybe, you know, maybe a good four four and a half to five inches.

It's hard to see when he's down there and I'm looking through the scope and up, you know, but for the size of his head, and yeah, his ears were on kind of on top and pretty pointed.

I didn't see no tuughs at the top or nothing.

But they weren't overly crazy compared to his head size.

But the weird thing would be that how up top they are and just point it up like that, come to that perfect like point.

Yeah, maybe four to five inches.

Man, that's still pretty tall.

Was his head in proportion size wise to his body or out of proportion?

I would say close, but a little maybe out of proportion.

And you know, just because of his muscles, you know, his body looks like a man's body with these muscles and stuff.

And I didn't really see it from the front, but from the back, how would I say that?

I guess it seemed okay since he had like kind of wide shoulders and the muscles and stuff.

But like if he didn't, then his hot body was just like a regular dog.

Well, then his head would not look right, you know, proportionately wise, at least, No.

I definitely wouldn't.

Right.

How good of a look did you get?

At his legs.

Not as good as his body and stuff, because that's mainly what I'm focused on.

His legs.

You know, to me, they were and I've thought about this.

To me, they were like canine legs.

But and that's what I've said to myself.

But when I've went back and really truly thought about it, do I know that for sure?

So I'm trying to picture when he jumped and stuff.

That's just what how I remember it, at least, But I'm not sure of that, you know, I can't.

I can say, like his calfs, at least the tops of them seem to have some muscle.

But yeah, I truly didn't observe those that much.

Well, like I told you before, you deserve a lot of credit for all the details you did notice, So hats off to you.

You said you're looking at him through a scope, and with that in mind, did he happen to notice anything about his genitals?

Nope, nothing there at all.

I mean there could have been there, but I just didn't notice or anything like that.

Oh that's all right, and a biggie there he saw him do some pretty extraordinary things.

But I'm still not sure about how you feel about all this.

Do you think that that means he was a spiritual being or do you think he might have been flesh and blood and just had some special abilities.

I want to lean towards he was flesh and blood and had some special abilities, But you don't want the way I didn't notice nothing there before he was there.

It was kind of like just a black shadow formed up into a dog man.

But that could just be because I'm looking at the deer and I notice it, even though it's kind of in the frame of my scope.

Anyway, it seems they just do things like this anyway.

But with everything he did, you know, I do have to just wonder, like, is that was that just a spirit?

Was it a spiritual creature?

But when he turned to look at me, I mean, I don't know.

At the same time, I feel like I could have shot him.

I mean, he was there the whole time until I left.

So yeah, it's it's hard to say, and it does bother me.

It wouldn't bother me as much if I could say, well, that was just a spirit and that's why it did that.

You know, if a physical thing can do that, that's a lot more perplexing, I guess, And scary, oh.

No doubt, and not knowing the worst part it definitely is this could go one of two ways.

I'm not sure which way this goes with you, but it's got to be awfully tense to sit there and know that this strange creature is right there, this creature that's so frightening.

It's just right there.

I'm looking at it.

But also, on the other hand, after you got back to camp, your dad shot that deer, you had to head back into the woods with them, which circumstance had you more frightened because after you went out there with your dad, you were with him, you weren't alone, but you had seen what one of these things could do, and you had that much more time to think about this old dog man situation, which situation had you more fearful.

While I was one hundred percent more fearful of getting older than woods by myself while I'm looking at this thing, because I didn't have no way to contact anybody, But after staring at it for that long, when it kind of formed itself into a ball, and I even there was a split second where I thought, like, of, like, what would happen if I shot that?

Like is it's still just a spirit.

But anyway, yeah, it bothered me enough to where I got to get out of this little tiny blind and I just got to get out of these woods.

But to be honest, the thing with my dad is too, like one of my biggest things that's always been in my mind and part of my life is I don't ever want to let him down.

And now he just shot a nice buck.

I mean, so I'm I mean, whether it kills me or not, I'm going out there to help him.

He can't get this by hisself, you know, he can't do it by hisself.

And at least I'm with him and he's got a rifle.

And we're also behind the camp now, you know.

And I did tell him what happened, so he at this point, so he knew, and you know, we're going in there quiet and looking around and stuff and yeah, I just nothing, you know, nothing of know what happened.

I pardon of me wanted him to see it, not right there and then, but just so he knows like that it's there and believes me.

But yeah, that was nothing behind the camp with my dad compared to what I just went through.

Because at this point with my dad doing all this work when I'm on like an adrenaline dump, and plus the physical work I did just getting out of that swamp and back to the camp.

I mean, I'm almost like on the verge of passing out by the time we're on our way out of there.

So it was rough.

But yeah, that's my thoughts on that.

Well, you still have a lot of sand, because most people never would have headed back into the woods even if they weren't alone.

So the fact that you did, especially for the reasons you laid out, that tells me you definitely do have a lot of sand.

As your encounter with him was playing out, did the thought that he might not have been alone ever cross your mind?

You know what?

It?

Actually?

It should have.

It should have for me, But no, it didn't.

I was solely focused on him, I guess, and maybe did because at one point I heard something like to my right, and that actually caused me to look away and look back real quick.

But he was still there, so I was aware there was maybe other things going on.

You know.

The whole thing too with it is that he didn't First of all, I knew what he was the second I seen him, Like, there's nothing else it could be in my mind, and it's because of you know, listening to shows like this, and he walked away from me.

He didn't vocalize, He did do some crazy acrobatics that I don't know what I thought of that it blew my mind.

But I've heard of that too.

And just.

Walking out of there was scary, very much so, and I was, you know, on the verge of panic and running.

But I think because of all them things that he didn't start walking towards me, you know, and vocalizing or anything like that, and just being prepared.

And I've been hunting my whole life.

I think people got to understand too, all them things come into play.

Oh sure, yeah they do.

Thank goodness, you're able to draw upon enough experiences where you're able to handle that experience as well as you did.

Some people would have made a lot of mistakes that might have put them in danger.

Thank goodness you didn't do that.

Now I can wrap my head around everything you've said about that experience except one thing, Josh, and that is after having that encounter, why didn't you leave?

Was that because your dad had brought you to that camp and he wouldn't take you home, or for some other reason.

I mean, yeah, that's part of it.

And you know it's he makes such a big deal of it.

You know, it's once a year and hunting, and I understand that, and it's almost like, well, not just as scared, but like I would feel so bad and just if I let him down.

And I know, you know, anything that's going to mess up hunting like is a big deal.

So I just I was.

I made it in my mind like I'm okay with staying here for this moment or this night.

I'll take it day by day.

But nighttime was hard.

But you know, I wasn't going back out in them woods, not over there or really any woods.

But if I seen a deer from the camp, I would shoot it maybe.

But yeah, I mean it's been like that my whole life.

Like I've never said no to my dad once.

I've never raised my voice to him, So it's kind of all that.

And I did end up leaving anyway, and you know, now he wants me to go back there every day is texting me, but I haven't.

You know, Yeah, that's just too much weight on a young back.

I'm glad you haven't gone back.

Your encounter happened ten days ago.

On a scale from one to ten, how would you read how traumatized you are now by that experience?

Well, with that happening wherein when it did, and the fact that it caused, you know, an argument between me and my dad or really mainly him yelling at me, and even though he apologized the next morning and he was drinking and you know, but I mean it was it was all it's all revolved around this, you know, and it's just yeah, like those two things combined and now, well, yeah there's trauma there to some degree, Like I'm not happy, you know.

It ain't like, oh I finally seen one of these things, Like no, I didn't want to ever see one of these, Like I had an interest or maybe I still do, I don't know, but if anything, one day, liked to maybe see a bigfoot, like while I'm driving across the road.

But it's just too much and what it caused, and it's like every day it's these two things that happened, they're just in my mind, and yeah, it's ruining things for me for sure.

I'm not sure that.

I don't know.

It's not good though, Well.

It's all so fresh, you've had time and I'm thinking it is going to get a lot better.

And as far as your dad goes, I'm pretty disappointed in him.

If you won thing, if you didn't know what a dog man was before this all happened, but he knew what one was.

And with that said, he definitely didn't make this as easy for you to deal with as he could have.

You made this a lot more difficult in a lot of ways.

And yeah, for that, I'm pretty disappointed in him.

But oh well, you'll have that sometimes.

Have you had any trouble with nightmares due to that experience?

Ah my?

Yeah, just one the day it happened after my dad's deer.

We're all done with that and everything.

I don't know, it's just exhausted, and I laid on the couch and fell asleep, and I imagine he was right there, you know, five feet away from me at the table.

We said at the whole time.

But I don't know.

I got my nightmare was.

I don't really know.

I can't remember now, but I thought I had woke up, but really this is me dreaming.

I went up to my dad and I was like yelling for him because I knew something was wrong, and like he wasn't answering, and then like I woke up.

I don't even know if this is real.

Then I'm back and having this nightmare, and I woke up again and he told me like, no, you never got out of that, and came and talked to me.

So I don't know about that.

But when I actually did wake up, he said I was screaming dah Dad like a lot, and repeatedly.

And I don't normally ever yell in my sleep that I know of or people have told me, so I'm not sure.

I can't.

I know at the time, I just can't remember what was going on in the dream.

The only part I do remember is dreaming walking to my dad in the camp and screaming his name.

You're trying to get to him.

People do a lot of things after a dog me in the encounter they normally don't do, so that's entirely possible.

You just might have done that.

What did your dad tell you about his encounter?

Sounds like you might have seen one.

That was I think two years ago.

We stayed up there for the summer pretty much because he was off of work, and I mean we'd run, you know, to town and stuff.

But Anyway, it was a night I decided to sleep home, which god, I'd been at camp like slept there every night pretty consistently, and this night, yeah, I slept home.

My daughter came over and stuff.

But anyway, I think it was between like seven and ten at night.

He texted me and he said, like literally his words are, I think I'd just seen a dog man, which we had, like, you know, in recent times, talked about these things because he didn't used to believe in none of it, but he had heard like a dog man's story from his boss or something, I think, and then I don't know, he decided that they're interdimensional.

And ever since he decided or heard that, he thought, yeah, they are real.

But anyway, that was all before now.

He texted me that and told me where it was behind the camp, and I know the exact area.

I went there the next day and there's really like there was like six foot tall just grass and weeds in this area.

And it was at night, but we do have a floodlight that lights up the whole backyard and even into the edge of the woods a little, and you know, he's sitting at the table watching out this big bay window we have like always, and he seemed something moving through there and he said he thought like coyotder welf for a second and then he thought, well, no, it's too tall, And yeah, he said it.

I asked him.

I was like, did it look like it was on two legs, like where you could just see the head and part of the body or something, And he said yeah, and he said something around its face seemed messed up, like it looked like it had like a maybe a raccoon in its mouth or something, which made sense because he had been shooting some raccoons behind camp because there was just a million of them, not literally, but I mean there was a lot of them, so he was thinning them out a little.

And I said, well, maybe it, you know, grabbed one of the raccoons that you know, that you shot and didn't realize you got because normally we'd go get them and chuck them somewhere else.

But yeah, I mean he didn't.

It was just you know, it was walking through there.

That's what he thought he's seeing.

I guess, not a good look, but was really tall grass.

It'd have to be tall to him to see it above that, So I'm just not sure, you.

Know, do you think I'm reading him wrong.

Some people just have a hard time getting their feelings across.

With that in mind, it makes it really easy to misread them.

But as far as your dad goes, it seems to me like he's not that concerned about your ability to come to terms with the encounter.

Like I said, am I reading him wrong somehow?

Well?

Yeah, I mean, I you know, I love my dad and stuff.

He was just drinking too much that night.

But I mean his thing with this kind of stuff is like he always acts like if he's seen one or in the woods, whether it be a sasquash dog man, whatever, he acts like he wouldn't be afraid and he'd shoot it if he had to, but he wouldn't unless he had to.

And you know he so, and then it's right during hunting season, you know, And and I kept, i you know, kept bringing it up, and I even felt I brought it up and he didn't like it because he was about to go in the woods.

I mean that's what he told me, like, stop talking about that now I'm going out there, you know.

And I was like, Oh, I didn't think you were afraid of these things really, But yeah, like I don't want to be too harsh to my dad.

You know, he just that day, you know, get friends stop by kind of early and they were drinking and they left, and the day I left, I mean so you know, I mean he did apologize the next morning and all that, but he just doesn't He just didn't understand, you know, like how much does he really believe in these things?

And yeah, if he does, he doesn't understand.

I've tried to tell him.

I was like most people who've seen these things, like at least their face and everything aren't like like traumatized, you know, and that part I don't think he gets.

I mean that probably have to happen to him for hisself, and like with mine, you know, it only turned around now one time to look at me, and I knew about this, so I kind of looked away when I did that.

I just don't want anyone to get it wrong, Like if that thing came towards me or I've seen his face too long, I mean, that would have probably been it.

I want to know them what to do, But yeah, I don't want to be too hard to my dad.

Really, you know, it's just he don't understand.

I guess that's all.

And it does sound to me like he has a hard time expressing himself when it comes to things like this.

Hats off to him.

He apologized to you the next morning.

Yeah, good man for doing that.

This is also fresh now, Josh.

But down the road, how much of an effect do you think that encounters can have on interest in Honey.

You know, I'm more of a fisherman anyway.

So yeah, I've thought about that.

I don't know if I care to, really, I don't.

I don't really have no interest ever in going back out to that blind you know, and and so hard because at the same time, I don't want to let my dad down.

But there used to be you know, more people, my grandpa and my brothers, and you know, like if I'm not there now it's just him, and I hate picturing that.

But yeah, be I don't know what I'm gonna do.

I'd be fine not you know, hunting, at least not there.

I'll probably always still get my dear tag just in case or you know, stuff like that.

Yeah, I don't know.

I probably don't.

I don't think I'll be going back out in them woods anytime soon.

Yeah, that's understandable.

You talked about this in Part one.

You said that for the longest time you've wanted to see a sasquatch.

Now that you've had that dog man encounter, though, would you still like to see a sasquatch?

Are you good now?

No?

I'm good.

I mean I think them things are there too, from what I've seen and heard, and but I don't, you know, they seem to just like maybe make a noise to let me know I'm there, or that's what I'm hoping.

I don't know, but I went back and forth on that for so long.

Do I want to see one of these sasquatch?

No, at most crossing a road, And now I really don't even care.

But you know, people get traumatized for them too.

What I want when walking up to my car, like where I am right now and I see it's face.

No, it's all about when you see that face.

I know it is, like that's a huge thing.

People always talk about the face in both of these things.

But if I had to pick one over the other, I would pick the sasquatch.

But that could be just as bad, you know.

I don't know.

But nope, I don't want to see nothing.

I really don't.

I can understand, I really do.

Speaking of the whole Sasquatch activity thing, that's what you did say the first time we spoke that there was some activity report to death at Camp well More.

Can you tell us about that?

Yeah, that was that summer.

I stayed up there trying to think.

Here.

A lot of little things happened, like spread out like I heard at night.

I heard a couple like whoop noises when I had the window open, and then a couple like knocks, and my dad was there for that.

And me and my dad were outside one day and we heard something and then a tree fell like not that far behind camp in the woods, and then there was like a shriek over to our right and me and both my dad heard that.

I remember him looking at me and he said, he's never heard a tree fall around there.

I mean ever, not that it couldn't happen, but you know, it was during the day.

There wasn't any wind or nothing.

And then let's see, I know there was a couple other kind of bigger things that happened.

But my dad came in and got me one day he was outside, I guess he was looking down the road and he told me, He's like, I don't know, Josh, there's either like a black bear down there, or maybe a really big guy with black clothes on, or you know.

He didn't know.

So I went out there with the binoculars, and like, way down the road I seen what looked like a huge black bear, like in the ditch, like maybe coming onto the road, and it wasn't sure, and I think I handed on to him, and then when he handed them back to me.

I don't know how or why, but all of a sudden, I put the binoculars up and on the right side of the road walking our way, like I just seen a face, and I just put them down immediately because I thought it looks like I'm staring at someone and wanted to think that, you know.

And I don't know how or how it got that close, or if it was a person, I don't know.

But we went inside and we watched out the window because whoever and whatever it is, it has to go by the camp.

So we just watched the road by the camp.

Basically it never went by, or we thought, you know, it hasn't gone by yet, but realistically it would take quite a bit of time.

But I went out there anyway, And I looked to my right where we seen this thing and possibly that person.

I didn't see nothing.

And I looked to my left, and like, I don't know, fifty sixty seventy yards down there, there's what looks like a huge person walking away.

And I don't have the binoculars this time, but they're just all black.

And I'm not thinking sasquatch or anything like that either, not even a little.

So I can't figure out why this person, like clearly if it's a person, they got like black snow pants on and like a big black poofy jacket and have their hood up, and I can't see any separation in clothing.

So I just went to get my dad, which is just real quick, you know, like the roads right there, the camps right there.

He came back out.

I'd say it took maybe ten to no more in fifteen seconds, for sure, But either way, that thing or person has a lot more road to walk, and they somehow got by our camp by I guess, going through the woods and around, but I don't know how they could do that in that amount of time than it was.

But me and my dad went back out there, and now there's nothing.

You know, you can just see for ever until the gravel road hits the next road.

So that was really weird.

And on the way out, we're walking back out there with my dad and he says, well, maybe it was like, you know, like a sasquatch, or he just said the word sasquatch and it clicked in my head, and I'm like, oh my god, maybe that's why I couldn't see, you know, no separation and clothing or nothing.

And but then you know, we go to look and yeah, it wasn't there, So it had to have gone in the woods.

I know that.

Or if it was a sasquatch, they can just move so fast and do what they do.

So my dad always said that that was a sasquatch because it couldn't get from point e point A to point B in that amount of time like a person couldn't do it.

They absolutely couldn't, not without going past their camp.

So I don't really know about that one, but I mean, all these little things happening that are sasquatch related, noises and knocks and whoops, tree pushed over possibly, and then that leads me to believe that was possibly a sasquatch.

Sure sounds to me like there's a strong possibility it was.

And it's funny you mentioned that encounter, that experience, because I had an encounter that was pretty similar to that.

Now.

I don't know for sure that it was a sasquatch that I saw anymore than you do.

But if you want to listen to what happened to me, if you go to Sawdust Beast and Sawdust Dispelled sst instead of a single less but Sawdust Beast, if you look for my name Vic Kundiff, you can catch that interview where I talk about what happened that day.

But having said all that, Josh, it's about time for us to get out of here.

But before we do, doifney clothes and comments you want to put.

Out there for us?

Yeah, sure, I guess.

Once again, I just really want to say that.

You know, some people might not believe me because I said I been watching these shows for years and my interest and certain things, you know, and I just want everyone to know I'm just telling the truth about what I've seen.

I don't know if somehow something made me see those things and they weren't real, if they were spirits, anything, And I'm open to suggestions, but you know, I'm just telling my story and that's how it happened.

And yeah, I guess I guess that's about that's about it.

And yeah, Vic, I'll definitely go check out that show you mentioned there too, So yeah.

I'll tell you what I'll do.

I'll post a link for that show that I did in the description for tonight's show.

Had to make it really easy for you to find it and anyone else who wants to listen to it.

But having said all that, thanks Against so much for coming on for this part too, for the Q and A.

I really appreciate you coming back, and always remember if you ever need help, I'll be there for you.

All you need to do is just let me know and I'll be there.

Thanks Vick, I appreciate it, and yeah, anytime, I'm glad to be here.

Well, that's great to have you.

Thanks Against so much for your time, Josh, and have a great night.