On the Bechdelcast, the questions asked if movies have women and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands, or do they have individualism?

It's the patriarchy.

Zeph and Beast start changing with the Bechdel Cast.

Jamie, wake up, the episode is starting.

The weather is a thousand degrees fuck me.

Okay, oh my god, oh my god.

Welcome to the Back Well, maybe our most feminist introduction yet.

And I'll go to sleep.

Jamie.

I don't want to hear from you anymore.

Okay, look is it?

I mean this movie, this movie got me in so many ways.

I was like, do I want to be negged by Jack Quaid?

Sometimes there are days that is kind of your kink.

There are days where I would accept it.

Okay, the feminism continues.

Welcome to the Back Past.

My name is Jamie Loftus.

My name is Caitlin Derante.

This is our show where we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens, using the Bechdel Test simply as a jumping off point.

But Jamie, what the hell is that?

Well, I'll tell you.

The Bechdel Test is a media metric created by Iconic friend of the show our best friend who iconically has not sued us.

Alison Bechdel was originally made as a joke in her wonderful comic series Dykes to Watch Out four, and has since been adapted into a more mainstream media metric.

There's many versions of the test.

Here's ours.

We require that two characters of a marginalized gender ro pod question Mark speak to each other about something other than a man for two meaningful lines of dialogue.

Also, they need names.

Shouldn't be hard, but people still struggle with it, and I feel like, weirdly with the with the fascistic conservative bent we're on, it's gonna become a thing that doesn't happen again.

They're like, oh, we had women talk in movies for a couple of years, but thank god it's Oh.

Thank god, that's not happening anymore.

Rip.

But here today, we are here to talk about a recent release.

We haven't talked about a lot of recent releases this year, and I feel like this is kind of the ideal movie for us to be talking about because we just revisited her.

We've revisited I feel like the fembot canon in the last year or so, so I feel ready for spoiler alert today's episode Companion.

Maybe if you haven't seen the movie and you want to maybe go watch.

It, go don't listen to this episode because I mean, obviously we're about to spoil it.

But it's a movie.

It's a movie that feels like a movie number one, number two.

It's a movie that the less you know about the twists, I think think the more rewarding the watch.

So very true, but also I will say I really enjoyed the the rewatch it is It is very fun to kind.

Of rewards on a rewatch.

It holds up.

Yeah, because some movies, like the story logic completely falls apart once you know the twists and you're like, well, why did that character do that thing?

But I feel like it it gets kind of better in many ways when you realize why, especially with the character Cat, who are going to be talking about a lot today.

It's like, in my first viewing, I was like, what is this girl's problem?

On the rewatch, You're like, I get a team Cat.

Okay, So before we talk about the movie more, let's get our wonderful guests into the Damn Chat.

Let's do it.

They're the hosts of the podcast too scary, didn't watch?

It's Henley and Sammy.

We will wake up.

Wake up, Sammy, wake up.

We are not fembots, We just do yep wow.

What We should always intro our guests this way.

Our next guests are not thempods.

If they just do a pod, just do a podcast.

That's all.

Thank you guys for having us really excited to be here and talking about this movie.

We are also very excited.

Yeah.

Well, first, before we get into it, please tell us about the pod.

Yeah.

Our podcast is called Too Scared Didn't Watch as you just heard, and it is Henley and I and our other dear friend Emily talking about horror movies.

I love horror movies.

Henley and Emily are too scared to watch them, and so I basically recap horror movies to them and to our listeners who are too afraid to watch it.

There's a lot of people who like to read the Wikipedia summaries of horror movies, so you want to be in on the conversation, but maybe you don't want to be seeing those images for yourself.

So and we try to just giggle and laugh and have a good time and not feel too too many sad feelings.

Which is sometimes hard, which is really even even without the visuals.

Yeah, basically for me, it's just an excuse for me to get to hang out with my two best friends and then also get to do a podcast at the same time.

But really it's my way of, like secretly just getting to see you still every week, sometimes twice a week.

That's like, actually all I care about.

That's beautiful.

And also I've heard about every single horror movie.

I mean, my god, there's so many and they'll never end, so we will have like an endless supply to talk about.

But as someone who doesn't like horror movies, I can tell you so.

Much about horror movies.

Yep, well that's great.

Well, the nice thing about Companion is that it's not that scary.

In fact, maybe not scary at all.

Question Mark, there's a few graphic scenes, but.

The thriller, like I don't know how you would like quantify.

Yeah, yeah, thriller seems closer.

There's violence and like blood and so that if you're sensitive to that.

Yeah, people have different scary tolerances.

We've found that.

Yeah, some people just can't handle blood or violence, and some people can't handle jump scares.

And whatnot.

So yeah, I would say that this movie is not scary, but Henley as the scary cat, what did you think I thought it was?

Yeah, I didn't think it was too scary.

It does get gory at the end.

There's definitely some blood and violence throughout, but at the end that really, you know, doubles down our wonderful genius.

Beautiful editor Grace sent me completely unprompted because she knew I was coming on your podcast.

She edited Companion for me and took out any scenes that involved violence or like scary noises.

Angel Oh my god, can.

You believe an angel on this earth?

Grace truly an angel on this earth?

But I watched the real one, even though she was I really debated, But I felt like if I was gonna talk about this movie in a real way, I really needed to actually see the full thing, the full version.

So I'll just show my kids that version that Grace made.

It won't go to waste.

I won't go to waste.

My four year old will love it.

It's about a nice lady that goes on vacation.

Beautiful home in the woods.

It's about a robot that's so cool but so anyway, I really enjoyed it.

I'm glad I had an excuse to watch it.

Yeah, Sammy, but what about you?

What's your relationship with this movie?

I did see this in theaters without knowing anything about it, which I think is probably the best way to have seen it.

And I had just heard a lot of people saying, you know that it was really good and you should see it.

And so I did not know any of the twists.

I had not seen the trailer, and that was a very fun viewing experience.

I was very, very surprised, even though I feel like I maybe shouldn't have been as surprised as realist.

But but and then, yeah, just rewatched it for this so and you're right, the rewatch is rewarding and fun and I yeah, I was happy to happy to rewatch it.

Nice.

Hell yeah, Jamie, what about you?

I also saw it in theaters without knowing anything.

I don't know how I managed to do that.

I was I there were two movies this year that I was told to go in without any context, and it was this in Sinners, and unfortunately someone got to me about the twist and Sinners.

I forget who it is, but it's because i've cut them out of my life.

I suspect good.

But this movie I did manage to go in without any prior knowledge, and the twist got me as well.

I didn't see it coming, and I feel like it's a well executed twist because you're like, ohh this people being mean to a random woman scans for me completely tracks.

So unfortunately, it's very plausible that that's just would have happened.

So I got got by the twist, And yeah, I thought that the Rewatch is very rewarding.

I think like the back half of the movie.

I did not like as much on the Rewatch, but I think the front half of the movie is really great.

It feels it kind of falls apart for me towards the end, but yeah, I'm excited to talk about it.

I love I love a fembot movie, and I like that, you know, there's still that people are still finding original takes on it that feel very i don't know, unfortunately scarily modern.

So I'm excited kit the what about yourself?

I also saw it in theaters.

Though I had it, I would not say spoiled for me, but someone compared it to ex Machina.

Oh that's basically spoiling it jail.

And so I knew something was up going into it.

I knew that there must be some sort of like AI robot or something, and I kind of anticipated the first twist.

But then there's a second twist that I didn't see coming, and we'll get to that in the recap.

But yeah, I still really enjoyed it.

I still found it to be a fun, interesting movie that gives us a lot to talk about.

Also a huge year for this specific lead actor, Sophie Thatcher, who was in this and Heretic.

Back to Back, which I also saw in theaters, in which I also really liked Heretic.

I don't remember a damn thing that happened, but I just was like, Oh, it's Hugh Grant being like you can't leave, and I'm like, yeah, I'll go see that.

It's Hugh Grant doing a similar villain character as his villain character in Paddington Too, and I'm here for it.

Also a big year for Zach Kraiger because he didn't direct or write this movie, but he produced it.

And then he also has weapons out or weapons that came out earlier this year.

But lots of fun people involved, and I'm excited to discuss.

Yeah, let's get into it.

Let's take a quick break first, and we'll come back for the recap.

And we're back here.

We are back again, ready to We're awake.

We've been woken up.

And let's let's talk about Companion.

What happens Caitlyn Caitlyn's famous recap.

Yes, so we open on a dream slash flashback of Iris played by Sophie Thatcher.

Feels various Stepford Wives reference coded right at the right from the jump.

Indeed, Yes, Also we see her having a like grocery store meet cute with Josh played by Jack Quaid.

And then I was reminded of another grocery store meet cute in another horror movie from recent years, Fresh.

I was thinking the same thing.

I didn't even see Fresh, and I was thinking that.

This is the bastionand c.

So don't meet a man at a grocery store because it's gonna end horribly and he's gonna be a horrible person.

I will say, Amana to ask me for my number once at a grocery store, and I said no, I just yeah, like was really really caught off.

Garden said no, sorry.

I don't do that here, I don't make business and pleasure Like, I'm not here for that.

Also, it's like no one's going to a grocery store to be seen at this time in history.

Yeah yeah, yes, usually after I've like had a sweaty workout and I don't want to be perceived.

Actually, you guys, I just saw a TikTok though of a young man getting stop to go to the grocery store to try to meet someone.

I literally just want to talk about this, and I felt for him because, honestly, how do you meet people if you don't want to meet people on apps?

That's true?

How do you do it?

That's true?

I don't know.

I don't have an answer.

But it's not that I feel for these these these ones who are doing it in good faith, not if you're trying to put me in a basement and murder me.

No, thank you, No.

Yeah, true, which I guess in media, we are led to believe that the guys you meet at the grocery store are trying to kill you.

Over and over again.

It's a trope at this point.

Yeah, it feels like it.

Yeah, what is that?

Is that?

Just demonizing meeting people?

I r L I think The problem is ultimately there is no good way to meet people because most people suck.

Like people were like, should I do it on the computer in real life?

I'm like either one.

Ons aren't good either way on bad results.

Yeah, it doesn't matter.

Anyway.

So Iris and Josh meet at the grocery store.

He spills oranges all over the place and they're giggling about it in Its so cute, but there's also voiceover from Iris that foreshadows that she's going to kill him.

Cut to Iris waking up.

She and Josh are in his like self driving AI or whatever car on their way to a weekend to get away with Josh's friends at this house on a lake.

It's all very rich and expensive and remote, and the house belongs to Serge played by Oops.

I forgot to write his name.

My god, I was shocked.

The guy was sg rupert friend, and I was like, I know this guy.

I know this guy, but this is I'm not used to seeing this guy with a very put on Russian accent.

Guess who he is.

He's mister fucking Wickham from.

I looked this up too.

As I was watching it, I was going, who is this man?

This is not a Russian person.

What is this man doing?

He's also very obviously not to the point where you're like, what is this choice?

It's it's not a slapsticky film in that way.

It is funny, but it's this feels super slapstick and yeah, mister Wickham.

I was shocked too.

From Pride and Prejudice, yes.

I just who who could have seen him coming?

My my fiance was like, oh, from Wes Anderson.

I was like, that doesn't resonate.

And I was like, oh, mister Wickham.

What range this actor has?

I guess Yeah, everyone from Pride and Prejudice has to come and do something unrecognizable.

Tom from Succession, same thing where you're just.

Like, yeah, where did this come from?

So true?

Well I was.

I was thrilled to see him.

But also that was the third twist of this movie for me, is that that guy is somehow mister Wickham.

Right, So that's Sarah Gay.

He is the boyfriend of Cat played by Megan Surrey, a friend of Josh's.

Also at this house are another couple, Eli played by Harvey Gian and Patrick played by Lucas Gage.

We love Lucas Gauge.

Yeah, I love them, love them both and we love Yeah.

Harvey Gan Yes is one of my face quar icons all around shout out what we do in the shadows.

So Serge is older and doing a very stereotypical Russian caricature, and he's creepy.

Iris meanwhile, is nervous about making a good impression in front of all these people, and Josh quite dickishly, is like, calm down, just smile and act happy.

And then you're like, right away, we're like, oh, he's a prick.

Well, and he's like a very like movie guy kind of prick because he's like, why don't you smile more?

And it was at this point in the movie where I was like, this was written by a man, because there are there and I say that with love.

But sometimes when a man writing a misogynists, they're like, oh, the kind of guy that says smile more.

So everyone gets settled in and they have dinner together.

Patrick recounts the story of how he and Eli met at a Halloween party, which is a great runner.

And then during dinner we see a Chekhov's electric wine bottle opener, so don't forget that device.

And then after dinner, Iris and Kat have a conversation.

Kat does not really like Iris, or at least the idea of her, and then we get this sense that maybe Kat and Josh either used to date or maybe they're still into each other, or there's something going on with Kat and we'll talk more about that.

This scene plays great on the rewatch.

Yes, yeah it does.

Smash cut to Josh and Iris having sex and Josh busting going.

A great bust we could all agree, a great comic bus.

Very funny cut and maybe never want to have sex again.

And then Josh tells Iris to go to sleep.

The next morning, He's like, I'm hungover, Iris, you get a head start and go down to the lake.

So she goes to the lake and Saragei shows up and starts to grab her and force himself on her, so she stabs him in the neck with a knife that she mysteriously finds in her pocket, and then she goes inside and tells Josh and the others what happened, and then Josh once again says Iris go to sleep, and then this time we see her eyes glaze over and she like turns off because twist she's a robot, which everyone already knows except for Iris, They tie her to a chair and discuss what to do.

They're gonna call the cops and tell the truth that Iris killed Sergey, that she must have glitched and that's why she was violent.

But first, Josh wants to say goodbye to Iris, so he turns her back on and tells her that she is, in fact a robot, specifically a companion robot.

That's the name of the movie, or as Josh describes it, she's an emotional support robot.

That fucks.

He's like, I hate the term fuck bot.

He's so sensitive and.

Thoughtful, right, here's so much more than that.

Meanwhile, she found out she's a robot truly less than a minute ago, and he's already going, I hate the term fuck bot.

For you, I would say, you know, in terms of learning your whole life has been a lie.

She takes it like quite well.

She well, yeah, she's like got it, got it?

Okay, well what now?

Yeah.

She does have a hard time believing it at first, but he explains how it all works, that he can customize her.

However, he wants as far as like intelligence level, the sound of her voice, her eye color, the language she can speak.

He explains that her like, quote unquote, memories are fake.

It's all just a part of her programming.

And also part of her programming is that she cannot lie or physically harm humans, animals, or other companions, with some exceptions that we'll discuss in a moment.

But we first get a flashback of Iris being delivered to his home by this company called Empathics.

And iowa was I don't know if I was just like not paying close enough attention when I saw it in theaters, but he's listening to the song Iris Rives, and you're like, wow, thank you nineties radio for giving me that information.

Right, So my head canon was like, oh fuck, I have to name her.

I don't know, oh that song.

I was just listening to Iris good enough, It's great, It's great.

Yeah.

This reminded me of the feeling I got in don't worry Darling when you find out at the end.

Sorry for spoilers, we don't worry Darling, but like that same feeling of like, oh God, this is where he lives, and like you're just wheeling her in in this case and he's like clipping its toeenails and it's really fluorescent lighting.

I would say I've only ever seen men do this, I'm pretty sure, just like clipping the nails wherever the fuck.

They feel like, straight onto the ground.

Do it over a trash cancer doing nasty, nasty business.

Yes, in any case, she gets delivered.

Josh establishes a quote unquote love link with her AKA they meet.

Cute scene at the grocery store we saw at the very beginning, and we cut back to the present and Iris finally believes Okay, yes I'm a robot.

But she's like, well, we can still make this work.

We can go home and I can cook for you and make love to you and make you so happy.

And he's like, m no, thank you.

And then Kat comes in and she's like, Josh, what the hell, what are you waiting for?

Shut her down?

And he's like, you can't say that in front of her.

So they go off to another room and have a little chat, and we learn that they planned this whole thing.

Josh planted the knife on Iris so that she would kill Sergey so that they could steal his money.

He has like twelve million dollars in cash in a safe.

The Sergey character is so all over the place because there's a random throwaway detail about Sergey that comes back later that I feel like doesn't really matter, but yeah, because they're like, oh, he wasn't that bad of a guy.

But I'm like, well he's still has a safe that has Stalin's birthday as the could so I would say, and the end he's an assaulter.

So yes, why add the detail that, like he wasn't actually a bad guy, Like we only saw him be a bad guy.

I didn't need to know that he didn't get rich in the least ethical way possible.

I don't know, right right, because at first they're like he's a mobster and human trafficker, and then.

Later he's just a molestor who's obsessed with Stalin.

You're like, okay, I still don't care that he's dead dead right right?

Yes.

So while Josh and Kat are having this like sidebar in another room, Iris meanwhile, not wanting to be shut off, she undoes her restraints, takes Josh's phone that he uses to customize and control her, and escapes into the woods.

So Josh and the others freak out.

They're trying to figure out what to do.

It turns out the Eli and Patrick we're not in on this, like murder plan, so they're just kind of now finding out about it.

And then we.

Also learn that Patrick is also a companion robot.

That's the big twist that I didn't see coming, since I already kind of knew something was going on with Iris.

Right, I feel like I don't know for me, the twist that Lucas Gage is a robot, I was like, hmm, I'm rooting for him.

I don't care, Like, yeah, I'm still rooting for Harvey Julian's character because you could never make me hate him, and I think the movie kind of feels that way too.

The movie sort of decides like, oh, we're not going to turn people on.

I think their relationship is supposed to be kind of a foil to the other relationship, the other human robot relationship, because it seems like they actually love each other.

Yeah, and yes, like that's possible amongst a human and a robot, you can genuinely love each other, Yeah, which is I think important to establish in this movie, which you might otherwise walk away from thinking, well, I guess like you don't, that doesn't really happen, So for them to show it happening makes it all the more Jack Quit's character all the more like atrocious exactly.

Yeah, So we learn all of that, So the other characters are kind of freaking out, and they take Serge's gun and go into the woods to find Iris, who now knows that she's a robot who has been lied to and manipulated and forced to commit a murder by a man who she thought loved her, and whose programming has been modified because Josh has this hacking modifier device that he used to turn up her aggression and self defense response and enabled her to enact violence.

And doing all of these modifications is very illegal, so if the cops or empathics the company finds out that they modified her, their fucked.

So they have to go find Iris, who meanwhile is in the woods with Josh's phone, and she uses it to turn off the voice command that Josh uses to like control her, shut her off by telling her to go to sleep, and she also adjusts her intelligence.

Josh had her intelligence level set at forty percent, and she's like, wow, you bitch, so she boosts it up to one hundred percent.

So now she's like super smart, and she forms a plan to hijack Josh's car and get herself back home so that she can get cleaned up, grab some money, and get away from Josh for good.

But before she can get to the car, she crosses paths with Eli and Patrick in the woods, who don't spot her right away, but she overhears them talking, and she overhears Patrick revealing that he knows he's a robot and that that like Halloween party meet cute thing was just like his fake memory love link thing.

And then you get one of my favorite lines in the movie, fuck you Dad, I'm in love with a robot.

Yes, followed like kiss kiss, kiss.

Kiss, and maybe they're about to fuck in the woods question mark.

But then they hear Josh's phone vibrate on Iris, so they go after her.

Eli attacks her, They scuffle, and then Iris ends up shooting and killing Eli, and she runs off.

Josh hears the gunshot he's nearby, and then he chases her back to the house.

She gets in his car and tells it to drive her home after she adjusts her voice to match Josh's voice since it only responds to his voice commands.

I love this.

It was just as enjoyable the second time as it was the first of the like just it's like and then randomly act of Quaid's voice exactly mode, yeah, exactly.

He's so hard to do convenient for her, But it's a scene and a good twist on like why you can't leave the house, that's all you always have to figure out, why can't you.

Leave the house in the middle of the woods, And this would be one way.

It's voice activated car.

Yeah.

Sure.

So she's driving off and getting away, but the car stops when Josh uses Serge's phone to report the vehicle stolen and to call Iris and say, like, we can go back to the way things were.

We'll just blame everything on Patrick, and Iris is like, m no, thank you, I'm breaking up with you, so he's furious again.

Josh goes back to Patrick in the woods, does a factory reset on him, establishes a love link with Patrick, and then uses the modify or device so that Patrick will do whatever Josh wants, and he tells Patrick to find Iris and bring her back.

Cut back to Iris in the car, a cop pulls up, so she programs herself to speak German, knowing that the cop won't be able to understand her, and knowing that she can't lie.

This is her little workaround clever intelligence.

But then the cop eventually sees the bloody knife in the car and is about to arrest her, but just then Patrick shows up all like terminator mode and he beats the cop to death and abducts Iris and brings her back to the house.

She's in sleep mode now because he like got to the phone and like reactivated the voice command.

And Kat is like, well, fuck this, too many people are dead now.

I'm just gonna take my portion of the money and leave.

So Josh has Patrick stop Cat, which he does by stabbing her because Patrick is like one hundred percent aggression mode.

This is where the movie loses me, where they just kill off Cat like it seems like because they're like, uh, because she has to die for the rest of the movie to work.

We'll talk about it, but this is on the second viewing.

This is where I was like, all right, and then she says the weather before she dies, and I'm like, all right, women be reporting the weather to jack Quaid, right, So.

Then Josh wakes Iris back up and has a little chat with her over dinner.

This is the part that really lost me because I'm like, why are they having this conversation.

Wouldn't this scene go differently based on everything that's happened up until this point.

I found it a little too like movie.

But anyway, she's like laying into him.

She's like, you're pathetic and entitled.

So he turns her intelligence down to zero percent, making her like a mindless automaton, forces her to burn her arm on the flame of a candle and then to shoot herself in the head, thinking that that will like destroy her hard drives so that they can easily just like pin all of these crimes on her for when the two guys from the Empathics Company show up, played by comedians and friends of the show Matt McCarthy and Jabuki Young White, who reveal that they're going to scrub through all of Iris's footage because everything she sees and hears is recorded and stored in her like memory CPU whatever, which is not.

In her memory torso exactly, it's in her abdomen ax memory torso uh huh.

And so they're able to reset her and boot her back up.

But because she's recorded all this like incriminating footage, Josh has Patrick kill the two Empathic skies, which he successfully does with Matt McCarthy's character, and then Patrick is about to strangle Djabooki's character Teddy, but Iris shows up and manages to help Patrick remember that Josh is not his love, that Eli is and Eli's dead.

Oh no, So Patrick ends his own robot life, and so Iris goes back inside to confront Josh, but not before she has Teddy give her like total autonomy and self control, so now she can lie and hurt people and do anything, and Josh has no control over her anymore, which makes him furious, and he starts throwing her around very violently, and they're fighting and he's about to kill her, but then she goes go to sleep Josh and she drills the electric wine bottle openers into his skull, killing him.

So powerful.

I didn't know they were that powerful.

They can go through a human skull.

That's nuts, I guess so, And then the movie ends with Iris getting cleaned up.

She tears off her like burnt skin on her hand and exposes her like robot arm she takes.

She takes the twelve million dollars and drives off in Serge's vintage Mustang, and then as the credits roll, she drives past a man and a woman in a car, and the woman looks just like her but with like different hair, implying that she's also a robot.

So Iris waves her like exposed metal robot hand at her to communicate like, hey, you're a robot too, So get the fuck out of there, lady, get away from that man.

The end y.

Hell yeah, let's take another quick break and we'll be right back to talk about companion.

We'll go to sleep.

We'll go to everyone go to sleep, and we're back.

Everyone.

Wake up, everyone, wake up.

It's beautiful outside.

Let's get into the discussion.

Henley Samby, what stands out to you?

Feel free to kick it off?

Well, I feel like I was thinking two things when we were your recap.

Well, overall, it's just fun.

It's like a fun movie to watch.

I had a good time.

It's a yeah.

If I'm gonna like critique anything, maybe it's just that I wish it had gone deeper into some of the themes that was trying to explore.

For me, the latter half of the movie makes a lot more sense if we see jack Quaid's evolution into like becoming a sociopath more clearly.

When she calls him and breaks up with him in the car.

She uses all the classic breakup lines.

She's like, it's not you, it's me.

She says all the classic things, and he's like, are you breaking up with me?

And you see in his face like I think, anyway, something shift like this is she has activated a deep wound, some kind of dejection that's happened here.

And literally it's like a light switch all of a sudden, he's like a super villain, which he really wasn't before in the movie.

And I think that that shift could have been, like I don't know, we could have just had a little bit more about him to really believe that part of it, because yeah, when they sit down to dinner and he's like sitting at the head of the table with like a goblet of red wine and he's like, wake up, virus.

I'm like, who are you right?

You're like I thought you were a coward, And yeah, like makes sense in a satirical way of like that shift being that's the moment to completely change personality, like I've been rejected, now I must kill you and make you suffer.

But the movie's not super satirical in that way, and so yeah, it does feel a little jarring.

I agree, where.

Especially when he's yeah, sadistically torturing her and making her feel pain is right?

Yeah, where is this?

Where did this come from?

It's a bit jarring.

But for me, I think the movie does a pretty good job of characterizing an awful man, but have like showing a more like maybe modern and like almost nuanced version of misogyny versus like what we've seen in the past with a lot of movies and something that we talk about all the time on this podcast, like the patriarchy the man type of character.

Right see, I think this is the new patriarchy the guy character.

I think we're going to be seeing a lot of this guy.

I feel like the first time I clocked this variation of patriarchy the guy was in Promising Young Woman, the Ba Burnham character.

I was gonna say, Bo Burnham, I had that thought too.

And we've been seeing a lot of this guy.

And actually specifically Jack Quaid has played this guy more than once.

Yes, And he also plays this guy in five Cream in my old scream Scream Crying where it's spoiler alert, he's one of the ghost faces where and he's he's the nice, supportive boyfriend.

Guess I did not get it.

Yes, he's the five cream ghost face.

So this is like a type of character who I feel like I've seen many times at this point, and I wanted more of it because I agree with with you Henley that like it felt very abrupt, especially with and I feel like so much of the stuff that I was I don't know.

I didn't think any of this on the first time I watched this because it's a movie to watch on a Friday night, like, don't overthink it, but also that's what we're here to do.

So but I feel like a lot of the issues I was having in the back half could have been solved if like Kat remained a relevant character, because I feel like so much is left on the table.

And when he goes super villain mode, it did not scan for me because he cared about Kat, he had a crush on her, they'd been friends for a long time.

So when the Jack Quad character does not react to that at all, that was when I was like, oh, he is a patriarchy the guy character, because that's like a completely irrational way, even if he's a misogynist, which he is, it just like his behavior in like the last half hour just like kind of didn't scan for me at all, because he's ultimately a coward and I felt like he was not going he was not choosing cowardly things in the last half hour, and his crush died in front of him.

Because of him.

It was his fault.

Like, I don't know, I guess I wanted to see him kind of crash out, and you can crash out in a misogynist way, We've all seen it, but like I just sort of, I guess, was wondering why there wasn't a reaction to that.

She just felt so like, oh, yeah, we have to get rid of this character or the movie can't end.

But it was like there's so much left on the table with her.

That conversation between her and Iris at the beginning is so cool to rewatch because it's like kat is feeling frustrated because she's being treated like a robot.

And then there was like a moment in that conversation where she's like, well, look who I'm talking to.

I'm talking to a fucking robot about misogyny.

Great, and at that we were like, Okay, let's explore that more.

Yeah, But once the twist happens.

I feel like kat Her like significance in the plot drops off significantly to the point where they're like, and then Lucas Gage kills her question mark, Like, it just felt like her character was I don't know, I yeah, on this watch, I was like, why did they make those choices about her?

Yeah?

I agree with all of that.

I guess my thing is like, and yes, this is a version of the like patriarchy the guy character with what we see in Josh, and then we get like one of the more classic versions of that character with Sergei, who is like, oh yeah, a rapist, but with I don't know, with Josh.

Yeah, we're seeing this trope of like this version of the patriarchy the guy character in more recent movies.

But I still think it's a kind of a refreshing alternative to the more cartoonish version that we've seen in whatever years past.

I guess it's like his misogyny isn't quite so mask off.

It's more covert, the way that misogyny is more covert these days.

It's still very present, but I feel like misogynists have gotten better at masking it a little bit more, And I feel like Josh's character is like for a heightened thriller comedy.

His character is like a decent representation of that.

Yeah, still not perfect, but like I think it's it's handled like decently well in this movie.

Yeah, he reminds me.

I feel like it's almost stripped straight from online culture, this version of misogyny in manhood, because I don't know for me anyway, I feel like I see a lot of content about people being like the men who have done me the dirtiest in Brooklyn are all reading bell Hooks.

Yeah, they're all right.

You know, they're performative for mean some version of feminism that whether they know it or not, they don't actually mean and is for selfish purposes.

And who knows if they actually you know, read a single line of Bellhooks in reality, but they're carrying it around with them at the subway, so trying to signal to everyone that they're a good person or a good guy.

It's like those the signals have changed.

Yeah, and that's what we're seeing a little bit here with Jack Quaid.

Right, Definitely, he's really I mean, he's really good at playing this part.

Yeah, and yeah, like you're totally right, Kaitlin that like with Sergei, we sort of get the for some reason via mister Wickham, another famously shitty guy.

So maybe that's the through line there, but that like we're seeing different kinds of guys who suck.

I guess I'm just like, maybe it's a personal preference thing, but it's like I just wanted something new because I was like, okay, I Bo Burnham, I got got by bo Burnham, but that was like five years ago.

I gotta give me a new flavor on this guy.

Well, the thing is with Josh is that I don't think the intention of the movie is that you get got by him, because his misogyny is pretty on display.

It's maybe more subtle than the Sergae character.

But that scene where they arrive at the house and Iris is expressing her insecurities about like, oh my gosh, what if I embarrass myself in front of your friends or say something stupid?

And then he's like, shut up, oh my god, you're just now bringing this up twenty feet from the door.

Just be cool, Chill the fuck out.

You know.

He's not using quite that language, but he's saying like it's fine, just act happy in smile and then obviously his misogyny runs way deeper than that, because I mean, he's a man who wants a romantic partner who he can control, and he has her intelligence level set to a small fraction of what like, he wants someone who he can manipulate.

And maybe what I'm getting at is, like, I guess what I part of because the performative guy thing is is everywhere in the real world right now.

I feel like there's a lot of guys that like, saw me too happen ten years ago.

They're like, Okay, I have to adjust the language to be a dickhead now, but I feel like a lot of them are not aware they're doing it, And so I feel like it starts with Jack Wade being an asshole, but like an asshole who still fundamentally thinks he's a good guy.

And then at the end he's acting so villainous, like not flinching when his dear friends are being stabbed by robots in front of him, that you're that it felt like it kind of like lost sight of the kind of shitty guy I thought he was.

That's true, right, because also, yeah, his friend Eli dies, his friend slash crush Cat dies, and he's like, well, moving on, I need that twelve million dollars.

Yeah.

I definitely think the scariest part of the movie is the scene with Sergey where he's just like slowly like pushing the boundary and like asking her to put on sunblock for him, and like that part was so effectively upsetting, and I think that's probably like the part of the movie where I was the most like scared too.

Yeah, he's also manipulating her because he says something like, oh do you like this nice house?

Right?

Do you like this delicious food that I've provided?

Are you comfortable?

Well?

If so, I did that, and therefore you owe me something.

You owe me your presence and your company, so stay here with me, and blah blah blah.

And then he gets more overtly grabby and a salty But yeah, he's trying to manipulate her up until that point and because of her program, but also there's like a societal mirror of that, of like women being socialized to be polite and accommodating.

She's like, yeah, you're right, you did invite me here, and I am enjoying the nice house, so.

Which becomes even like wilder when it's like, oh, this is also how she's been programmed, likely by men, to behave In response to something like that, I wanted more of it, where she again with I'm gonna just like fixate on the fact that I wish that she and Kat had like had a more because Kat is coming from such an interesting place where she is being treated like shit by mister Wickham.

Also she is frustrated, like it seems like she is, like it's one of those choices where there's two women in this movie and they hate each other for reasons unclear, probably related to a guy.

Like, Okay, we've seen that a million times, but when you rewatch it, you're like, no, she hates like she doesn't trust robots, which I think is a very reasonable place to be coming from.

And I guess I wish that they got into that a little bit more outside of the idea of a romantic relationship, because I don't think that it is.

Again, it's tricky because I love fembot movies and I'm always rooting for the fembot to kill everyone, but also, you know, I'm in real life, I'm really not rooting for the robots to kill anybody.

I actually like really don't want them to.

Yeah, and I'm afraid of them, and so I feel like there is like a I don't know.

I was really kind of connecting with kat on this viewing where you're like, well, would I be nice to a robot?

I don't know.

Also, if you are like a single woman in the world, and sexual politics is already complicated enough, the like the playing field is already imbalanced enough, and then you throw in fucking fembots into the equation.

So like, now I've got to compete with robot who's literally designed by men to be like perfect, quote unquote perfect and do whatever they want.

And the version that they've designed is so demeaning actually at the end of the day and depressing because literally the only point of her existing is to serve Josh.

I think that also, as like a human woman, you would be thinking, how how am I to live in this world where, right, the man gets to have a fembot and everyone thinks it's okay, that's another thing, Right, this is clearly normalized in this world.

No one gives a shit.

Everyone's like, that's cool, you get a fembot.

You do you?

You would think there'd be some level of shaming some level of like you can't even bag a human woman, you have to get a robot.

No, they don't care.

They don't care about that at all.

And as a human woman, that would bother me.

Yeah.

Yeah, And the word she uses is you make me feel so replaceable, and it is like, yeah, depressing thought to think of men being like, oh yeah, let's get rid of the human aspect and just make a little.

Little fuck bot, an automaton who's who exists only to serve me and accommodate me, and who the men have to put in no emotional effort to care for them, because the men can just be like go to sleep.

Because there's also that scene like right after they have sex and he busts, she's like trying to kind of connect with connect with him emotionally and has like after care and pillow talk and then he's just like go to sleep and.

Like and I feel like the movie plays on that really well of like on the rewatcher, like, oh, I just thought he treats women poorly, but he he's treating women poorly in a way I didn't even understand.

And that's another cool I don't know conversation where it's like that to some extent is happening, like you can have an AI girl friend now, and you know whatever.

I don't really even want to wait into the shallow end of that discussion, but but I feel like, in general, so much of why these performative men exist, I feel like is because they're like, Okay, now, I understand that in order to have access to women at all, I need to treat them with the most basic veneer of respect.

But when you put the fuck bot into the mix, that goes away, Like they're like, I can treat this robot however I want.

There is no like if you are a piece of shit.

You're like, there is no advantage to treating any woman with a measure of respect because I can just have my fuck bought at home.

Who cares.

And we learn later in the movie from Matt McCarthy's character that some men are using their robot companion women as target practice, or that they chain them up in the basements and torture them.

It's like you're like, yeah, yeah, I see that.

Well, okay, so I agree that, Like the conversation that Kat has with Iris really rewards on the rewatch because at first you think cats maybe gel of Iris because she and Josh either used to have a thing or that she has feelings for him.

And then when she says that Iris makes her feel replaceable, that implies, Oh, Kat and Josh used to date, and then he broke up with her in favor of dating Iris.

That's what you interpret from the first watch.

From the second watch, you're like, Oh, Cat is resentful of this world where men have these fuck bots that exist to serve their every physical and emotional and housekeeping need.

Also, it seems like she does like the cooking and cleaning for Josh and all that, and so that would make any human woman feel yeah, like replaceable, inadequate, et cetera.

But I think that Cat's anger is a bit misplaced.

Sure, sure, like she doesn't necessarily want to hang out with a robot lady, But I don't understand why she's not more upset with Josh or men like Josh who would choose a robot over a human woman, or like whatever the company that's creating these fembots.

So I wish that had gone like, I don't know, I wish that it had been handled differently.

And I think if it was not written by a man, if this movie was written by a woman, her attitude would have, like her anger would have been maybe directed elsewhere.

The other part of that dynamic is how having a fuck bot would affect a man.

This is another part of like patriarchy harms everyone.

Which is sure, it sounds nice having a relationship that is so deeply convenient and frictionless and easy and they do everything you want.

However, Josh Quaid like Josh Quaid, jack Quaid, Josh quad, Josh Quaite, sure, that's his name.

Now he kind of.

Hates her, Like even from the beginning, he doesn't like her.

And it's because she's just him.

It's she's just a version of him.

Yeah, that's my child trying to open the door.

And she's like she's to Like basically he's seen himself in her.

I mean, how could he not.

All that's my.

Husband trying to get my four year old to not burst in here because he really wants to talk about fembots if we need.

To take Yeah, he watched the edited version.

He's a huge fan.

He has so much to say, so much on his mind.

Sorry, that point kind of interrupted, but basically, like he hates her, which we see by the end of the film.

He means he's torturing her by the end because he must be harboring some hate for her and is inside of himself because he doesn't act.

This is not what anyone wants.

No one acts.

This is not real connection, This is not real.

This is not life affirming.

This is not making us better people.

This is not like adding to like how dynamic and beautiful life can be.

This is really tiny.

Is a way to live your life in the.

Tiniest little the safeness, a little flattening it.

Yeah, and he.

On some level must know that and hate that about himself, and it just sucks for everyone.

Yeah, basically totally.

That's a really good point.

Yeah that like he and against Like, I wish that we had seen that a little more of like this comes from a place of insecurity and self hatred, and that is like a useful thing to see and understand in men.

M m.

Yeah.

Yeah, it all feels like all of the opportunities and like everything is there and you can see it, but the way it comes together just feels like there's like a lot left on the table because I'm not even like I wouldn't even really care that Kat is rude to Iris at the beginning if that pays off in some way, but it doesn't change, like she's just like fuck her, I hate her, even when she's like she's seeing these like shades of gray in her friend Josh Quaid that and she doesn't really react to it either.

I was like, so, are we just to believe that every person in this movie except sort of Harvey Julian is a tremendous piece of shit, Like I'm on board for that, but I need to understand, like why they're not reacting to certain things.

I don't know.

I mean, I do, like I love I love a tech thriller, and I just I feel like, with especially with how people are feeling about AI at this specific moment, it only kind of went like surface level, where yeah, there's so many things to be scared of both.

Right, Yeah, it does feel like that first act is like was the impetus of the idea, and they're like, Oh, this is gonna be so good.

It's gonna be so good.

Sold it on that, and then yeah, like we're like, oh, yeah, we have to write the rest of it, Okay, like let's build that in.

So I agree, it does kind of it's super satisfying in the first third or first half even and then yeah, a lot of those threads get dropped or just kind of watered down.

Yeah, so it's it's it's a fun movie that doesn't like, doesn't stick with me as much as I would like it too, because I'm just yeah, didn't quite get all the way there.

But here's a question, can I even think off the top of their head of a fembot movie that was like made by a woman.

Not to put anyone in particular on blast, but like, I feel like most of these movies are made by men.

Uh for going to Blade Runner, We're going to ex Makana.

These are movies I.

Like, Stepford Wives, step.

Ford Wives, I'm pretty Sworld west World, Like, these are movies that I'm pretty sure are made overwhelmingly by men.

And and what I mean, I know why, but like but but maybe maybe don't.

I don't know.

I don't have much, I have no power.

But it's just like I love a fembot movie, but I usually have some kind of issue with it that is similar to this, that just feels like maybe if a single woman, the movie doesn't even have to be good.

Women's wrongs as well, but like I just feel like there's always like there's always something that just feels like weirdly and very obviously left on the table.

And if you're choosing to make a fembot movie, you're walking into a feminist discussion.

Like if you didn't want that, then you shouldn't have made a fembot movie.

Like there is going to be a discussion around genter with this.

But it is just like this, I mean, this is like not a call out to this movie in particular, but just as I was like going through the other fembo oh and we just covered her another like malo to her movie.

Who made three again?

Oh that's a man, I'm pretty sure.

I'm pretty sure man.

And look at God.

Yes, written by a woman, So that's good.

Oh.

Written by Aquila Cooper, who also co wrote Malignant.

Heallo.

So I mean like it does, but I mean I don't know, just like another O Tour movie about a fembought by a guy.

I'm like, maybe next time, let's let's try something.

Different, someone else do it.

I love the version of this movie.

If okay, let's take this movie, we make it twenty minutes long.

All right, all right, everything that happened.

I love it.

Twenty minutes then she because it's like, in a way, a coming of age film for a robot.

Right, that's really interesting too, her character development.

She's wearing like nineteen sixties clothes in the beginning that she's been given by empathics.

By the end, she's got her robot arm revealed.

She's wearing leather and jeans, and she's like about to ride off into the distance.

So okay, so let's say that happens twenty minutes in and then it's like, what does this bitch do?

You know?

Like what happens next?

Does she run for office?

Like?

What is what's happening?

Is she gathering all the other robots together and making a robot army for an uprising?

Is she doing a robot uprising?

Is she just having a small cottage core life like experiencing you know, maybe like spelunking, going into you know, doing some like fun whimsical things in nature.

I don't know, but it's kind of fun to think about that version of this story too.

Yeah, this that like brings up another question.

I know it's like silly in a joke of the robot uprising, but her scenes with the Lucas Gauge character.

I feel like that I was also having not really questions about but maybe like could there have been more there?

I actually like can't remember now even anything they will said to each other.

It's implying that they have consciousness because he can feel.

He just GRIBs love and Patrick the robot describes his love for Eli in very poetic, beautiful human terms, like it seems like this is a robot instilled with consciousness, which is a whole other conversation we could be having because it seems pretty obvious these robots have consciousness and for these humans who are ignoring that, I'm like, right, would it be that easy to ignore someone who seems like a feeling, thinking person and treat them that way?

I don't know.

Yeah, I wrote this down and then was like this is out of my pay grade, but like I just forne Turing Test question mark because theoretically, okay, like if it's a reveal that Lucas Gauges a robot and some people don't know that Lucas Gauge is a robot unless they're told, then like he's clearing the Turing test.

If you're clearing the Turing test you have consciousness, and if you have consciousness, theoretically there would be like I don't.

Know, like there are implications for that, right, Like yeah, like you're saying like people would be behaving a little differently or there would be some conversation around like they meant that there is kind of like a YadA YadA like Empathics we'll get in trouble, but it's like not clear if it's like I don't know, right.

There's like legal limits to what their intelligence can be or something like maybe they had put some sort of limits on or intended to put limits on them, and yeah, I don't know, I mean I guess, yeah, getting into the legality of it is maybe not did.

You have robot court drama that the movie touches on this very briefly without being specific at all, but it's this flashback scene where Iris is like being delivered to Josh's apartment and there are a couple Empathics employees to like facilitate that.

And one of them is kind of going through a few different logistical things with Josh and he says like there are about a billion government regulations here, so obviously we can't like they can't have super strengths or super intelligence.

So even if you set it to one hundred percent intelligence, that would be the equivalent of an IVY League grad, which doesn't necessarily even imply intelligence.

That just implies that your parents are well connected and have a lot of money.

But it's not as though they are one hundred percent capacity, like they have these regulations that limit the intelligence and limit the strength, but also like additional limitations as far as like they have no capacity to lie, they have no capacity to be violent unless their behavior has been like hacked and modified with these like hacking devices.

I'm fine with the hacking device.

I'm like a vague hacking device.

Why not a hacking stick, the hacks the hack stick?

Uh, the mystery bock?

Sure?

Why not?

And then it's implied that happens all the time when they're when your friends are wheeling them out and they're like, oh, she's definitely modded, like of course she was modded, and they're so casual about it, like it happens all the time.

This happens all the time.

This is not the first robot murder and it won't be the last.

Yeah, I don't know, but yes, speaking to like her Iris's relationship with Lucas Gage.

Again, I'm like, this to me does not feel like a movie where everyone has to die except for Iris, Like it felt bizarre to me that people kept dying after I felt like it made sense.

I guess where like cat dying felt like I don't know, killer and like sort of similar to Lucas Gage, where I was like, Okay, now we're getting into like robots suicidality, Like does that mean Lucas Gage he's gonna see Hervey Julian in heaven?

Does he believe in heaven?

Does he believe in God?

I don't know why.

I don't know.

I guess that that is like supposed to illustrate the point that like he does have consciousness and he can experience such tragic loss that he could experience suicidality.

But I'm also like, I'm also fine with Iris and Lucas Gage robot going on a road trip.

That's what I was kind of rooting for.

I think that that's what I wanted.

As we're talking about it, I'm thinking, yeah, they can, they can both ride off into the sunset, right, But.

That's not what happened.

That's no one I kind of forgot, Like on the rewearch, I was like, what does happen to the other robot?

And then you're like, oh, okay, that Like his death scene felt so like to me tacked on or like, oh, we just need to get rid of him.

So he does that, but I don't.

Think you need to get rid of him, Like I think I would have liked to see either human woman and fembot unionized or robot and robot unionized.

Yeah, a teamy nappy would have been like.

That would have been fun.

I agree, speaking to the different times where like the movies starts to kind of say something, but like those threads unravel or doesn't like stick the landing in a satisfying way.

There's that monologue or I guess it's a dialogue between Josh and Iris at the dinner table at the end where Josh is describing how, oh, the world is just a big game and it's rigged against people like me, which feels like commentary on Cisheit white men feeling as though.

Oh, I there's a war on everyone's against me.

Yeah, Because he says then like I'm a good guy, I'm nice, I'm decent in the world.

He's implying like the world owes him things just because he's a quote unquote nice guy, which of course he's not, but he thinks that about himself, so he feels entitled to you know, women and money and blah blah blah, and Iris then respond with like, yeah, we all know, how much do you think the universe owes you?

But you know, you're an entitled prick who always needs to be in control.

And then she also makes a dig about his penis size, which is something that we've talked about on the podcast before, which like, yeah, that's probably gonna hurt a lot of people's feelings if their penis size is insulted.

But there's like inherent problematic things with just using that as an insult period.

But it just felt like another example that whole dialogue of like there's commentary starting to be made, but then it kind of tapers off into nothing.

Well, but it's like, how much of that doesn't mean If that is immediately followed by us seeing a woman shoot herself in the head, you know, like how like, you know, whatever, I'm fine if if the movie, if the Fembot movie is like we have nothing to say about women, that's a choice.

But it it's like, I feel like this movie says something and then shows you something else.

I don't know.

I wasn't really buying the feminist empowerment speech at the table.

I wasn't feeling it right.

I was thinking that scene at the table.

Really, I was feeling so many feelings.

And one of the first feelings was him sitting like so smug with his fucking goblet of wine.

Like truly, he might as well have been patting a cat or something.

Truly is so villainous, so evil.

And the only thing I could think was he has failed upwards, like he has totally gotten to this point only because he's made one mistake after another mistake after another mistake after another mistake, constantly getting things wrong, never judging the scenario correctly.

Everyone around him has died, Everything has gone to shit.

And look at the audacity.

Look at the audacity of this man who says, now now's my time to be like super confident.

And it's like that to me.

Also, oh just makes my like I get goosebumps, because I do feel like I have worked with some men who are like that, and it exist in the world, and it's remarkable how the human brain can really trick you into anything.

Yeah, I don't know, right.

Like you said, that happens in real life all the time, men feeling upwards and then being like, well, I've moved upwards.

I get my accomplishment.

Look at the proof of my success.

I've killed everyone else, so I must deserve this, So I must be awesome, and this confidence is deserved.

Yep, I don't know.

Ultimately, I think my takeaway from this movie is that I want women to make fembot movies going forward.

Nothing against I mean like it's nothing against this filmmaker or anything like that, but just like, leave the fembots to the girls.

I think men have really had their say, yeah, and they've had plenty of opportunities to make a comment.

And it does feel like this movie is trying to say something about it, but it just like doesn't quite come together.

Also, yeah, again, and just like going back to just like time warn horror tropes where this movie feels more like a thriller movie than a horror movie.

Anyways, I don't think everyone needs to die.

But by the end of the movie, basically Iris is the final girl and the gays have been buried.

Every the people of color all dead, so is Jack quite Like everyone's dead, But it just didn't feel like that was needed.

I don't know.

Yeah, it focused more on cranking up the violence and deaths.

Than like the actual story.

Yeah itself.

That said, it's like again very fun, a fun surprise, but then yeah, when you really dig into it, there's less than.

You might then you wanted.

Yeah, something that bumped from me was the violence toward the very end, where where Josh is like very violently throwing Iris around.

It felt like I already know he's a bad guy.

Like why it felt like kind of reveling in a man being horribly violent toward a woman.

Yeah, it would have been nice if they added some like a twist on that because she's theoretically like made of metal, so him like trying to hurt her in that way and maybe not being able to because she's much heavier or something.

I don't know, Like I kind of was expecting something a little different in that scene and then no, it was just him just like being violent towards her in a way that was.

Hard to watch.

It was really hard to watch, right because at this.

Point Iris has total autonomy.

This is after the teddy Empathics guy like gave her autonomy.

It's diocex djabuki.

In theory, she probably would be stronger and sturdier, right than a human person.

Yeah, why doesn't she go into like again terminator mode and like rip him in half?

Yeah?

True, we've seen Lucas Gage do it, and so it does feel like it kind of wanted that scene to be in there where he realizes he's not stronger than her.

Maybe Empathics is really sexist and they make the like male coded robots out of like titanium and then they make the like women ones out of like aluminum.

Help.

Yeah, yeah, I didn't.

I guess I didn't even think about that.

But there's like, I mean, just going back into horror trumps we've talked about since the show started.

Of like, I am both very pro corkscrew to the head the very creative, haven't seen that one before?

And also is it not a household object where as Lucas Gage robot it has a fucking glock.

Like the whole time, everyone has a gun except our final girl, who is still using the household object to get the final kill.

She does wheeld the gun for a minute and then shoot at Josh.

But yeah, it gets dropped pretty shortly after that.

Yeah, and I guess I appreciate also the for having a quote unquote buck bought in the movie not having like a very graphic sex scene.

Yeah, is I think the right right choice.

Like all of the sex scenes are either off camera and you basically only hear Jack Quaid like.

Busting the bus.

That's true, that's true.

Or getting close ups of him.

You never see any really any overly sexualized shots of Sophie thatcher at all.

So I appreciate that decision very true.

Yeah, I guess that that is kind of like a hallmark of the fembot.

They're like, she's not a per and so look away to look at.

Her like perfect titties.

Yeah, the factory made booze and then she like grabs them.

She's like, wait are these good?

Yeah, that's true.

That is true.

That shows that shows some restraint and I respect them straight.

But also the bar is in hell.

Just like wow for making a movie about women, Like she didn't grab her titties?

Ally ally, Yeah, does anyone have anything else they want to talk about?

This is not really here nor there, but I did see in the trivia and just wanted to say it that Sophie Thatcher can cry from one eye, from each of her eyes on command, which I just that happens in Babylon and I thought, you know that that well, that could never happen in real life.

And apparently Sophy Thatcher.

Can do it.

So just she can do like one I at a time, and like, yeah, choose, which I.

Apparently, I mean according to IMDb trivia, so it's you know, not one hundred percent reliable, but I'm going to.

Actually I'm going to say, yes, yeah, talent.

She rocks.

To me, she's actually yeah robot Yeah no, no, no, but wow, that's that is quite something.

Yeah, it just seemed important to share.

I'm excited to see more Sophie Thatcher.

I'm like, yeah, she's also just for what it's worth, like her performance, I feel like is like the movie doesn't work if she's not convincingly a robot and still very sympathetic, and she she kills it.

She's great.

I have a friend who just worked with her on a on a movie and also says that she is wonderful, So that's always nice to hear too.

Hell yeah, yeah, I guess the last thing I had to say, and I guess this is I mean, you guys know better than anyone.

Like it's I feel like horror movies are single handedly kind of keeping like original storytelling alive.

This movie was financially successful.

It's nice seeing and it's the filmmaker's first first movie that he directed.

So even when I have various little gripes, I'm like always happy when an original story comes out and is properly marketed and successful.

So that rocks totally.

And it really could have been way worse.

I have heard way worse, way worse than horror movies, way worse.

So this is like a fun walk in the park compared to what they could have done with female sex spots.

It's true.

Yeah, we have the evidence.

It's all around amazing.

Well, I guess that does it.

I forgot to pay attention to God does it pass excels test?

I had a question mark on this because and.

You guys, we're the experts in theory.

You're the experts.

But the only real option is that conversation with Kat.

And I do feel like their most talking about their respective boyfriends.

I mean, there might be an exchange that passes like inside of that conversation.

She says, it's not you that I don't like, it's the idea of you.

You make me feel replaceable.

And Sophie Thatcher says, like, but Kat, you're so brave and fierce.

Confidently, Yeah, I wish I could be more like you.

But it's all kind of about the larger contor for men.

Yeah, right, exactly.

So I was confused if it did or not.

Like maybe it's a technical pass, but also looking at the larger circumstances, maybe not.

But also I have a theory that movies, especially ones that are written and directed by men in the modern era, know about the Bechdel Test and they're like, shit, I have to write are two women.

I have to make them talk her else everyone.

Will yell at me.

I would say it like spiritually for me this movie, I don't know, Like I think spiritually yes and no, because Iris is a great character, Like I'm rooting for her the whole time, YadA YadA.

But it's like if you if you, as a male filmmaker, decided to make a movie about a fem bot and you're having these this clearly like intended to be performative.

Male guy they're like I needed to pay off in a more meaningful way than this movie does.

Also, it's like if Kat doesn't like Iris, which gets clearly established in which Kat more or less says why is she, then like, I feel like that scene needs to be framed differently, where like kind of Iris pulls cat aside to be like, Hi, can we like have a little like one on one chat girl to.

Girl or something like that, But it's like, I guess we don't.

Yeah, how does that what motivates that scene happening?

I thought it was just because they were just kind of bored and the men in the room were ignoring them, were yeah, right, right.

But that's why I think.

I think the way it's framed makes that scene almost feel tacked on, and like further supports my theory that it's like, oh no, I need to write a scene.

Where women interact.

Oh my god.

Because it's like the way it's framed, it just again, it feels very it feels kind of wedged in, and you could take out that scene and basically nothing about the narrative would change.

Yeah, So I feel like it could have been maybe like justified narratively a bit more if it was again like Iris having the agency to approach Cat and be like, hey, it seems like you don't like me.

Can we talk about why or something like that, or if.

They like ever spoke again after that, which I think now I'm like, maybe that scene was added.

Yeah, I was gonna say, just need another conversation.

Yeah, Well, part of me wants to watch that scene and then just the little scene of after Cat gets stabbed and she goes and sits on the couch and she just bleeds out quietly next to Iris, who's turned off, and she's just they're both looking outside, looking at the weather, and part of me wants to like watch the first scene of them talking and then immediately watch that scene because it's like, wow, look at where that conversation got you guys.

It's not in a good place.

Yeah, yeah, where It's like, I don't know, in other fembot movies that I also like, because I do like this movie for everything that we've said, right, it's fun, But like for other fembot movies, I feel like when women don't talk it is for a clear reason.

Like the reason women aren't talking in Ex Machina is because Alicia Vyskandor is locked in a cell like there she is being intentionally.

Kept and Ascar Isaac has programmed his other fembots to not be able to speak at all.

Question mark like just dance.

Yeah, right, like it is it is important to the story that like women can't talk to each other because when they do, they kill Oscar Isaac.

Right, But in this it's like it just feels very unmotivated.

Why there are no further conversations and then the only other woman is like killed off.

To me, it just felt like because the story never really decided what to do with her.

Yeah, yeah, I think that's the biggest takeaway for me is just like that exactly what we said, A lot left on the table there and an opportunity to have a more interesting conversation that didn't happen.

And then the most important metric of all, the pectel Cast nipple test, is.

Where we rate the movie on a scale of zero to five nipples, examining it through an intersectional feminist lens.

For me, I think this is like a split down the middle.

It's not like it's trying to say something, it's trying to comment on gender and it's trying to comment on the type of misogyny that especially in like hetero men or men who are interested in women and want to be with them romantically and or sexually, but their misogyny means that they hate women and don't view women as human beings with thoughts or feelings.

And in this case, it's a man who wants a partner he can control and customize and who will not have to be emotionally present for yep, who will obey his every emotional need, but he does not have to reciprocate that at all, who won't like upstage him intellectually or anything like that.

He has a very specific idea of what he thinks he wants from a romantic partner, and look how it ends up.

Because Henley, to your point, like really horrible men might think they want a woman who they can control or who he won't have to do any like emotional reciprocity with or anything like that.

But it's so surface and superficial that that doesn't actually serve anyone but he.

But he thinks that's what he wants and needs, and then it gets him killed.

So there's commentary that like is present.

I think we just all agree that it could go, It could have gone a bit further and it would have been a more satisfying movie.

And again, Jamie, to your point, led people have marginalized genders.

Literally anything anyone else, like literally like just not another white guy making a fembot movie.

I just don't think there is something new to say from that demographic at this time.

Definitely yep.

So I'll say two and a half nipples and I'll give them two Sophie Thatcher and Megan Surry who plays Cat and my half nipple to the hack Stick.

I'll go to it a half as well.

Yeah, I think that, like like a lot of movies in this genre, like it Start.

I don't know, it's so weird talking about like this genre of movie like post get Out, because I feel like there is now this expectation that there needs to be overt social commentary in every movie, but like not if you don't really have anything to say, I'm going two and a half nipples.

I'm gonna give one to Iris, I'm gonna give one to Djabouki.

I'm gonna give the half one to Harvey Julienne.

I wish he had stayed a live longer.

I know, Sammy Henley, how about you agree about the nipples?

About the nipples full agree?

Yeah, I'll do I'll do three nipples, why the heck not?

Why not?

Hell yeah, just go for it, Sammy do three.

Just slightly tipping towards positive in that.

Yeah, I think you tried.

They tried.

We didn't get there, but I will give the three nipples to the cool exposed robot hand I really liked that one.

To the beautiful house and Lucas Gage Terminator style.

Yes, I would love to see another Lucas Gage Terminator concepts just.

To spin off.

Yeah, thank you, Thank you both so much for coming on the pod and going full fembot with us.

Thank you, thank you so much for having us.

This was great and I didn't even know that I like, really needed to get into my feelings about this movie because on a first viewing I kind of watched it and then immediately.

Forgot about it.

And this was really great really digging into it.

Yeah, thanks for doing it with us.

I was very happy to have an excuse to watch it.

I probably wouldn't have watched it otherwise, and it was I was really enjoyable and it made me.

It made me think about some things, just a few things, just a couple of thoughts, not too many.

Don't take it too seriously.

But it was fun.

And yeah, I.

Love Sophie Thatcher and Josh Quaid.

Yeah, this is it's really it's really fun to get to.

Talk to you about with both of you, so, oh my gosh.

Likewise, thank you for having us on.

Where can people follow you?

Check out your podcast, et cetera.

We are too scared and watch and we are on Instagram at t SDW podcast and.

We're kind of on TikTok.

Now we have a social media manager.

Excuse me.

I don't personally go on there, but.

I know I don't even know what she's she's pulling some clips and hopefully we're now embarrassing ourselves too much online.

Yeah, although that's probably unavoidable.

And I'll just plug, I mean, because why not.

We've Jackuade has been on an episode of ours.

He recapt on the Dead with us.

If you're a jackquad fan, check that one out.

He was a delight.

He was very kind in person, not like the second half of this movie.

Can you imagine if.

He came on our podcast and treated us like that?

Not at all?

He gasled us he tried to kill us.

Well, we're big fans of the show.

Thank you so much for coming on.

Thank you guys for having us, of course, and you can follow us on Instagram and.

The best way to support the show is to subscribe to our Patreon aka Matreon, where we do two bonus episodes a month, plus you get access to the back catalog of nearly two hundred bonus episodes all for five dollars a month at patreon dot com.

Slash Bechtel Cast with that Let's go to sleep, Go to sleep, Jamie go to sleep, Sammy go to sleep, Henley and go to sleep, Caitlyn go to sleep.

Listener, Bye bye.

The Bechdel Cast is a production of iHeartMedia, hosted and produced by Me Jamie Loftus.

And me Kitlyn Dorante.

The podcast is also produced by Sophie Lichtermann and.

Edited by Caitlyn Durrante.

Ever Heard of Them?

That's me and our logo and merch and all of our artwork in fact are designed by Jamie Loftis, Ever heard of her?

Oh My God?

And our theme song, by the way, was composed by Mike Kaplan with vocals by Katherine Voskrasinski, iconic, and a special thanks to the one and only Aristotle Acevedo.

For more information about the podcast, please visit linktree slash Bechdel Cast