Pushkin.

Hey everyone, So in this episode of Not Lost Chat, I speak with writer and traveler Jessica to Bongo, and as you'll learn, she's been to every recognized country in the world, which is incredible.

I mean, I've been to every recognized pizza shop in North Brooklyn, but foreign countries.

Let's just say, I'm going to have to get to work if I want to catch up with her.

But reading her book to Catch Me if you can, did get me thinking about, you know, where was the furthest that I've ever gone from home?

And I started reminisce about adventures in Brazil and Japan and Estonia.

And I was going to write a kind of moody intro essay to put here, you know, part tone poem, part personal reflection, some musical flourishes.

But then a guy on the l train coughed in my face and I contracted RSV.

So that's going to have to wait until the next episode.

But don't worry, because there is lots of fun content in store for you.

In this episode, they're listening to the aforementioned Jessica Nabongo will tell us about her travel adventures, including the scariest place she's ever been hint she didn't need a passport to go there.

Also, the musical duo The Twins, the sisters Tegan and Sarah, come by and talk about the touring life.

They've been touring since they were teenagers.

Before they could drive, they used to take a greyhound between gigs, and while now they have an entire bus.

They talk about that and they answer listen to travel questions.

So stick around, and I promise that you'll learn at least one interesting thing.

Again, this show's really blowing my mind because I feel like I'm like leaving with two like brand new thoughts in my brain.

All right, two two interesting things more after sigh these advertisements welcome back to Not Lost Chat, my series of conversations with fellow travelers.

I am Brendan Franz's Nunham.

The idea behind this series was for me to talk to people in the travel space, because when I did the first season of the show, I wasn't really one of those people.

I had had a travel column, I was a traveler.

I did do some writing, but I was blinging it.

And so now that I'm here, I thought, let me meet other folks who've been here, and we're going to talk to lots of writers and people who've spent their time thinking about travel.

But if you're thinking about the modern world and traveling, you can't help but think of influencers, those modern sentinels on the lookout for all that is glamorous and instagrammable.

And my guest today might be considered an influencer, but her writing and mission are a bit more substitutive than say, bathing suit selfies with an endangered species.

Jessica Nobongo is basically a professional traveler.

She is also the first black American woman to document visiting every single country in the world, and earlier this year, she published a book about her travels called The Catch Me if you Can, And that title totally fits because Jessica was kind of hard to catch.

She's always on the move.

But thanks to some deft sleuthing on my part and her book publicist, I was able to get some time with her while she was temporarily on the ground.

Well, I guess my first question is just where are you now?

And no idea where you are?

I am in West Hollywood right now.

I just got back in the country Thursday.

Are you just constantly a little bit disoriented?

Like about what the weather is, what day it is, like, what's happening in your town.

I recall a couple of years ago being in a target and literally, for like maybe fifteen seconds, I could not remember what city I was in because it's like, wait, where am I It's it's the weirdest thing in the world.

So I never know what day it is like that is always elusive.

You've outstripped your consciousness, like you've traveled so much.

You are a pure traveler, and I'm wondering, how do you describe yourself?

You know, I'm someone where travel is the air that I breathe, you know, like I've been traveling internationally since I was for My family is from Uganda, so it's really something that we've always done.

Every summer when I was little, we did something, whether it was camping in the US, going on an American road trip, or going to the Cayman Islands or Jamaica or back to Uganda.

We did something.

So, you know, a lot of people have asked me, oh, you've been to every country in the world.

Are you going to stop traveling?

For me, it wasn't like I have this goal, I'm going to do it and then I'm done because travel is a part of me, you know, Like now I'm set to be on the ground for like two and a half weeks, and I'm like, Okay, I have to book a flight.

I have to go somewhere.

You're getting itchy feet.

Yeah.

Well, look, one of the many things I learned in your book is that there's this culture of country counters, which is which which are almost they're rarer than astronauts or something.

Can you tell me a little bit about this class of people.

Yes, there's a group of lunatics from different countries around the world.

Yeah, so the country counting community there might be more than astronauts, but as far as people who've been to every country in the world, there's less and three hundred some more people have definitely been to outer space than have been to every country in the world.

I stumbled upon this group in twenty seventeen.

I had already been to sixty countries and I was a country counter, but I didn't know there were other weirdos like me out there, people who are filling in these maps.

And it's a really great community because people are supportive and share resources.

Obviously, some countries are easier to navigate than others.

So people often share fixers for certain countries, you know, and just give tips and advice.

But you know, I think the important thing is because now, of course, a lot of people are like, well, I want to go to every country in the world.

And I always tell people what is your why?

You know, like do you want to just go to every country so that you can say you did it, or do you have a real mission behind it?

And you know, for me, my mission I was driven by my own personal curiosity and as media around my journey picked up, like most of the people who've been to every country in the world are white men, didn't specifically like Northern Europeans, so like Germans and Danes and Norwegians.

Um, I guess it's the Viking thing.

I have no idea, right right exactly living different types of lifestyles.

And so for me, I was the first black woman to do it.

I don't even know if we're at fifty women yet who have done it.

I don't think fifty women have done it yet.

So it's a different experience, you know, Like dealing with immigration was not always easy.

If I was using my American passport, sometimes they thought that it was fake.

If I was using my Ugunan passport, they thought that I was going to overstay my visa.

So I've been detained, you know, harassed by multiple immigrations around the world.

But I will say, for me, one of the biggest lessons I learned is that no matter all of that, most people are good.

And so for me, like the people in the country exist on a different plane than the government, right, and I don't conflate the two.

So no matter what nonsense I deal with at the border, I'm not going to put that on the people of that country because I'm also like, I don't want people to associate me with either of my governments, the US or the Ugandan government, Like I like to be looked at as an independent person.

Yeah, yeah, I mean that's still a graceful way to look at it.

Well, you said a lot there, and I want to like unpack a little bit of it.

You write in your book about how you are perceived as African instead of Black American, and I wondered if you could talk about how that affects your experience traveling versus maybe some of your friends.

Yeah, for sure, you know, blackness is not a monolith.

And those blue American passports, as powerful as they are, it doesn't work the same for everyone.

The world is decidedly anti African.

I mean, we can look at it from the refugee crisis in Europe a few years ago to how they responded to Ukrainian refugees, right, Like, that's a very clear difference that we can acknowledge.

And just the way that Africans are treated, not only in terms of economics and bilateral association between governments, but just in terms of television, all of the things.

Right, And so for me, I recognize clearly how I'm treated as an African versus a Black American because I travel with my black American friends and so you know, they'll go through immigration and they're gone, and then I'm stuck and I'm being detained, and I'm like, wait, wait, wait, wait, we just came back from the same place.

We both have American passports.

Why am I being detained?

And it's this idea that Number one, I guess Africans can't be American, which is weird because anybody can be American.

That's kind of our thing.

And then you know, when I'm using my Ugnan passport, is this assumption that somehow our countries are so terrible that no one with a Ugunan passport or any African passport can just go on holiday somewhere and then go back home.

Right.

Like, there's that idea that if they're crossing a border, they have to want to live in our countries, and it's like, actually, truth be told, there's a lot of African countries I'd rather live in than you know, the US, or a lot of European countries for sure.

I mean, I'm thinking of the picture you have in your book of the sunset in Uganda right over the lake, and like that alone is would draw one back.

You also write about how the scariest country you visited is America, Like quite literally, the experiences you had here were more searing, it seems.

Yeah.

I mean, you know, the first time I saw a gun, I was looking at a point blank range and on the other side of it was Miami PD because they thought I was breaking into my friend's house.

I mean, I can remember coming back from a work trip to Ethiopia and DC I was at dullest, got through immigration, went to customs and they asked for my passport and then asked me for another form of ID, and I'm like, what, my United States passport is not good enough to get me into the United States?

You know, like that still is absolutely one of the most absurd things that happened.

But I think just generally, the anxiety that I have when I'm in the US is unlike being anywhere else, whether it's landing and not knowing if I'm going to be harassed at immigration or just fear of like knowing that there's so many guns in rotation.

I mean, and it's so often now we barely blink at mass shootings anymore.

Yeah, you know, like I just can't wrap my mind around it.

You know, at one point in your book, you quote Malcolm X and you quote American propaganda is designed to make us think that no matter how much hell we catch here, we're still better off in America than we'd be anywhere else.

And the WII there is he's talking about black Americans.

I feel like the we now as all of us though, But yes, definitely.

You know a lot of people will semi messages and say which countries are safe for black people to travel to.

I know where it comes from, but I hate it because there's this lack of freedom, that people feel like this idea that their blackness is such a weight that they can't travel the world freely.

And so part of it, not only with the book and the imagery in the book, but just my Instagram and everything I do is showing me in all of these places.

Because have I had some bad travel experiences, yeah, but very very few compared to how much I travel, Very very few negative experiences, And like, I'm unmistakably black, you know, and I go in places and I've been welcomed, and I visit rural parts of like Kyrgyzstan.

I remember being in rural Kyrgyzstan and I was walking across the street to get a SIM card and cars were stopping and staring.

I was like, oh, yeah, I forgot I'm black, you know, because I just wasn't thinking about it, you know, And it was hilarious.

But I really hope that not only for black people but also women traveling solo.

I hope that people see my journey and gives them a sense of freedom, you know.

And I know that has been the outcome because I get messages, emails, dms, whatever from people saying I went here because of you.

I was afraid.

My family told me to be afraid, but seeing me go, they went.

So I'm glad that my journey has really released some fear for people.

It makes me think of that.

There's a Mark Twain quote which I will misquote and paraphrase, but basically how travel is the biggest and adode to prejudice, right.

It's being there interacting with the people that are really just going to break through any kind of preconceptions you have.

Absolutely, And that's the other big thing I learned from visiting every country in the world.

We're more similar than we are different.

So for me, that's why I always say the world is our neighborhood.

So it's about being a good neighbor.

Because, first of all, borders are fiction.

Borders are just geopolitical lines on a map, but they don't actually mean anything.

We're all sharing this planet together, so we have to stop thinking about ourselves as Americans and Canadians or Ugundans, whatever it is, because we're all in this together, and when this planet blows up on us, it's not going to be like, oh, well, you have a strong passport, we're gonna save you.

No, we're all going down.

You talk about the you know, the eurocentric bucket lists that exists for various reasons, and this book is a corrective for that in many ways you want to speak to that.

I love that it is a corrective, Yeah, because I think for too long and still ongoing, the powers that be are still mostly white men in terms of telling us where to go, what to do.

We look at Kane Nash Traveler, we look at Traveling Leisure, even my publisher, National Geographic.

There's not that much diversity of those telling us this is what should be on your bucket list.

A lot of the people writing haven't been to the continent.

Because to me, if you go to a place like Kenya, Uganda, Tanzania, Ghana, Senegal, South Africa, Botswana, Namibia, these are amazing countries where I have always felt one hundred percent safe, they have great tourism infrastructure, and in some cases they're relatively affordable to visit.

So to me, I'm just like, I mean, I look at the New York Times fifty two places to visit.

I look at all of these lists every year and I always roll my eyes because I'm just like, Yeah, Vermont is amazing, but what about Madagascar?

You know what I mean.

For me, I'm just like, come on, y'all, so you know, for those listening, I'm here to help you make your twenty twenty four lists.

Let me know if you need my help.

I mean, that's part of why among the reasons I wanted to have you on is you know, I'm talking with travel writers and travel thinkers, and when you make that list it is embarrassing.

And I was going to ask you, and maybe this is too reductive, but like, what do you you know?

Like why do you travel?

But when part of why I travel, I think is collecting wisdom?

You know, when why am I like talking to all these people?

What am I looking for?

I don't know what I'm looking for, but I know I am just trying to find some sort of wisdom about the world.

What about you?

What are you looking for?

No, I think what's kept it going is I'm so curious.

I am like a child, and I love asking questions.

And I love visiting new places more than I like visiting old places.

You know.

I really novelty, Yeah, for sure.

And I think studying basically my degree was global economic and political history, So for me, it's just so interesting to go to these countries, knowing their political history, knowing their economic history.

And I'm person who I feel like we all have something to teach and we all have something to learn.

So if you're open, you can learn something new every day.

I love that.

Yeah, well, Jessica, I think that we should end it on that great point.

I want to thank you so much for chatting with me and for putting this book together and sharing it with the world.

Jessica Nobongo's book is called The Catch Me if you Can, and it is a really great place to start if you are looking to fill the blind spots in your travel itinerary.

And it's not just pictures and places.

It has lots of neat little information like this scary fact.

In twenty eighteen, in the USA, seven hundred and sixty eight million vacation days went unused.

Whoa right.

So if you need some ideas about where you should go, you can check out the book or Jessica's Instagram page at Jessica Nobongo.

The beauty full images on her grid will be certain to influence you.

All Right, Well, after a quick break, we're going to move from traveling for pleasure to traveling for work.

And I don't mean a two day convention at the Chicago Hyatt.

I am talking about months and months on the road.

Here you are on a bus like you're a grown adult, sleeping within inches of other adults.

It's very intimate and uncomfortable, and I've adapted to that by being able to like dissociate on some levels when you need to kind of ghost walk.

Canadian indie pop duo Tegan Sarah stop by to talk about the touring life and to answer your travel questions.

When Not Lost returns welcome back to Not Lost Chat.

Hey, that almost rhymes welcome back to Not Lost Chat.

It is now time for the part of the podcast where I invite someone more qualified than me to help answer your travel questions, and today I invited two people to assist me.

They're kind of a package deal.

Tegan and Sarah are an indie pop duo hailing from the Great Nation of Canada.

And as always, if any Canadian immigration authorities happen to be listening, please slide into my DMS at b F Newnham so we can start building my new life in Montreal.

Thank you anyway.

Teagan and Sarah are identical twins queer icons.

They are known for their catchy hooks and on stage banter.

They also became best selling authors after publishing their memoir called High School, which is their story of teen angst and their search for separate identities.

It is now a show on Amazon, also called High School.

And these super twins all so just finished touring for their new album, cry Baby.

They've been touring as a duo since they were teenagers.

Back then they got from show to show via Greyhound bus.

Now when they tour, they have an entire bus to themselves, well them their crew, a sort of family members and now babies.

Oh and a quick note about this interview.

Tegan and Sarah are twins.

They do sometimes sound similar.

In fact, when I conducted this interview over zoom, every once in a while I would discreetly mouse over the window so that their respective names would pop up under the images and I could remember who is who.

I mean, there are so many amazing things about touring on a bus.

I mean, the fact that you get to sleep overnight is really nice rather than having to drive all day.

That is Teagan, who plays guitar, keyboards and sings.

She's also wearing a hot pink hat during our interview I can't reveal the name of the star, but we know someone who has toured with one of the largest artists in the world, and that is Sarah, who also plays guitar, keys and sings.

And it's also wearing a hot pink hat during our interview.

Not confusing at all.

This is like private jets, like the whole thing.

And he recently was describing to me a scenario in which this person how they deal with a show and sleeping and getting to the next show, like the suitcases and the family and the entourage and everything is just sounded like kyos and it's like not RESTful.

And this person, you know, has like a thing over their eyes, you know, like they have all the sleep of koutrement and like trying to help them get to sleep.

But I thought to myself, my god, this is like objectively one of the biggest stars in the world, And if that is how that star is getting quote unquote rest, then the rest of us are doomed.

Like, don't ever think there's a level of touring that you're going to achieve as like an indie rock band where you're not going to feel kind of like deeply like cellularly exhausted.

Yeah, I think it's hard.

I have friends who have done pretty well in music, and at first when they would complain about touring, would you would be a little bit when you're in your twenties or third you're like, sorry about your problems, but yeah, you're up in to Australia and every cool person came out to see you and you were single.

But it seems like the pain is real.

It's real.

I think it's like a total not to get like too dark about our wonderful great aunt Helen, who's ninety two this year.

Yeah, she's amazing.

But I I was teasing her because she doesn't really travel anywhere, and she said, I don't like to travel because you go somewhere, you eat what other people want, and then you sleep in someone else's bed, on someone else's sheets, and then you are you're stopped up.

But she used some sort of old and timey word, but she means like constipated.

And then you go home and you're just relieved to get back into your house, your sheets, eat the food, you like a poop again.

And I thought to myself, well, great aunt Helen, you kind of just nailed the worst part of travel yeah, it's glamorous up to a point, but also to way your aunt was saying, it also makes you appreciate your home to a certain extent, Like I feel like, oh, yeah, absolutely, I like New York more after spending a year and a half traveling from Montreal to Mexico City doing things.

I like my apartment more.

I appreciate my friends more than I did when I was here and I was just chafing for something else.

I think there's a calibration required.

Yeah, oh my god.

I mean I used to feel completely the opposite to the way that I feel now in my twenties, and those gears were so fun, you know.

I mean I had an apartment, but like did I you know, I was I'd finish a tour and I'd be like, I don't know, I'll just stay in Portland for a week and you know, I'll like take a bath and order room service, and like I kind of lived the dream of like, oh, I was single, I was having like a really fun time.

But my draw to home and the sort of like nesting thing didn't really kick in for me until my mid thirties.

I think that correlated with, you know the fact that I had more disposable income.

I got more interested in like building a home and having nice things, and you know, I had like a weekly Bachelor watching like drunk Fest every week in LA when I lived there, and like, you know, like I just started to feel like, oh, like I really I really miss my community and I really miss the comfort of what I'm building in my environment.

And now it's really hard to like this last tour, it was just hard.

I have like a really nice life at home, and you know, I just had a kid, and like, you know, it's like, you know, I'm I'm like really settled.

Did you you brought your kid with you on tour?

Yeah, yeah, I did.

I know, he did not get constipated.

He did not get constipated on tour.

Um he's almost six months, so he was just about to be five months.

And uh, he did great.

And my partner Stacy came out as well, and we brought my mom and she helped out.

And it was profoundly destabilizing.

I mean, I've developed a lot of adaptations to make living on the road and touring and being nomadic work.

And I think, you know, the things that he can mentioned at the top about you know, here you are on a bus like you're a grown adult sleeping within inches of other adults.

It's very intimate and uncomfortable.

And I've adapted to that by being able to like dissociate on some levels when you need to kind of ghost walk I call it, like through some of the touring, so that you can feel comfortable and you know there's some self preservation there.

Yeah, I couldn't.

I couldn't do that with my wife, mother, and son on tour.

I felt like I had to be present twenty four hours a day, and if I wasn't present, then it just felt really uncomfortable.

My pitch to my partner Stacy the whole time was I was like, we're building a story for Sid, you know, like we're gonna tell him about his first carousel ride in Utah, and we're going to tell him about his first swim in Pennsylvania, and you know, and there was a few times where she was like, yeah, I'm not a storyteller.

Shut up, you know, like she was kind of like, this is exhausting.

Stop trying to make it a positive thing.

All right, I'm gonna ask some of these travel questions.

I lost the first one I wanted to ask you, but I'm going to try to call it back from memory.

It was a very simple one, but it was essentially my colleague Emily was based on Washington, DC, and she was asking, if you're on a road trip with a partner, what if any responsibilities does the non driving partner have.

I remember her signing it off.

You may or may not be saving a relationship here, and I think they include like navigation, music, you know, what if any responsibilities?

Yeah, I mean, speaking just specifically about the relationship I've been in for the last twelve years.

There is a delicate balance when one says that the non driving person is in charge of navigation.

I think that that's a trick.

I don't necessarily think that you're in charge, and I also don't think you're not in charge.

So I think it's a very dangerous place to be emotionally.

There's tension there, like are you actually the person staring at the navigation system and saying, you know, two hundred yards and it's on your right you want to move over now?

Like is it that layer or is it just more of like a you know, making sure that the volume of the music doesn't like overpower the navigation voice.

You know, like, but it is important to stay on your toes.

You are not in control or not not in control, you're somewhere in between.

I think that's well said.

You can do anything to add to that.

As a lifetime passenger, my biggest piece of advice to other lifetime passengers is just to be very patient and helpful and it just just know that it doesn't matter what the driver tells you.

They are resentful that you're not driving.

Sounds like we're both having a lot of fun in our relationships in cars.

Usually I am the driver, but I think you guys both struck him on something.

It's like you are relinquishing control.

Yeah, and so the driver ultimately has the power, which is why they shouldn't be a jerk, because if you drive recklessly, it's like whoa, whoa, whoa, Like you could kill us.

Yes, okay, two more questions.

This is a short one comes from Sean from Saratoga Springs, and Sean asks guided tours could be cool or boomer culture.

So we've been guided tours in a bunch of places.

I love guided tours.

If there's alcohol, yeah, probably nowhere more than New Orleans.

We find a new one every time, like you know, French Quarter, Garden District, the Haunted Tour, We've done it all, and yeah, it's it's particularly exciting when there's stops at bars.

My partner and I did one in London.

We did the Ripper Drack, the Ripper Tour or whatever.

It was harrowing.

You start at a bar and then there are multiple stops at bars, but then when they finish, like you're in a back alley and then they just are like okay bye, and the like guide person just leaves and everyone just scatters like rats.

And Sophie and I were just like on this cobblestone dark lane, just heard about this horrible thing that happened and we had no idea where we were.

I was like, this is awful.

It's terrible, but I love it.

I would do it again in a heartbeat.

Love them.

And oh, I want to just address the boomer thing.

There were so many young people on the tour.

Well, well that's why you want ones.

That's why you want ones with alcohol, even if you don't drek it just it.

I feel like it just attracts like a more fun demographic.

Also, unless you're doing something like Graceland or something like you know you're doing like a home tour or something.

Those are kind of fun.

But in general, and this is just my own personal thing, I don't like guided tours because I think as a performer and just as like a kind of egotistical person, I feel like I'm supposed to engage with the guide and I'm like, oh God, does everyone think I'm like the hugest brown noser?

And then if I don't connect with the guide, I'm like, how did that guide not see how special I am?

And how how next level this experience could have been for everyone.

Yes, I don't like guided tours.

I don't like them.

It gives you it sounds like it stresses you out.

It stresses me out.

It gives me a lot of anxiety.

Well there you go.

I think the fact that just the fact that you guys have gone on tours, I think answered Sean's question like, no shame in that game, no shame.

Um, all right, this is a question from Latal in New Jersey and latal rights as fellow queer folks.

I'm curious if they you guys share my version to B and B's where I feel, Oh my god, Yes, way would be.

It would be too conspicuous sitting around a breakfast table with strangers.

Yeah.

Yeah, I want to jump in and say, because I've stayed at a bunch of B andb's.

Being on the West Coast the last twenty some years, I did a lot of travel on the Southern Gulf Islands and there are a lot of B and B's, and as a twenty something with my very queer looking girlfriend, I used to feel so uncomfortable.

But there were like some of these places there's no hotels or in some cases away couldn't afford hotels, and I hated it.

I felt very, very uncomfortable.

You can quote me on this.

I don't like B and B's, I don't like Airbnb's, I don't like any I want to be in a hotel where I want to be in my house, but I would.

I do think that there's something this again, this show's really blowing my mind because I feel like I'm like leaving with two like brand new thoughts in my brain.

But I think that queer people and B and B's do not mix, and still even in this time in day and age, and I don't I don't quite understand what it's about, except that there's a real visceral reaction for me about staying in a place that makes me feel very vulnerable and exposed.

I mean more so than Tigan.

I really dealt with a lot of internalized homophobia and fear when I was younger, and the few B and B experiences I had actually a lot of it was really like a lot of it hinged on my discomfort that people would know, like I'm queer, and are we like, are we staying in a house with people that that would be hostile to that?

Well, what if it's different, What if it's a queer B and B?

That might be worse.

I mean it might be worse because then it feels like it's a theme park or something like.

It's like, we have queer members of my family.

My parents are much older, but some of their favorite people are these two queer B and B owners in Florida.

They stay with like this couple, this married couple, and my mother loves them.

I think that's the most exposure she's been with a married gay couple.

Interesting is because they go there each winter and they stay with them.

You know what our problem is, Brendan, I think I figured it out is that we don't even like staying with people we know, Like when we go to cities with friends who have space for us and offer us space, we always stay at hotels.

And I wonder if a lifetime of being nomadic and traveling is that we just we crave space of our own.

And this has probably got less to do with B and b's and maybe even queerness, although those are contributing factors to this discomfort, is that we just don't like sharing space.

It's like indoor camping, and it's like, no, thank you, thank you so much.

I really genuinely enjoyed this conversation and in your in your nesting and then your touring, and I look forward to running into you all again.

This was a delight, Thank you so much, show your weekend, Thank you so so, and that everyone was Tegan and Sarah.

You can check out their new album cry Baby and watch their show High School, which is on Amazon.

Full disclosure that conversation went on for over an hour.

I found them so easy to talk to.

I want to become their best friend.

Maybe I'll become one of their fellow Canadians at some point um and if there's interest, maybe I'll share it on this feed later on in the year.

So that's it for this edition of Not Lost Chat.

If you have travel questions that you want answered in a future episode, you can email them to me at not Lost at Pushkin dot Fm or ping me at b F Newnham on Twitter.

Please send them along.

Not Lost Chat would not have been made without producer Jordan Bailey, who caught a red eye from Northern California to North Carolina to be able to set up that Teagan at Sarah interview.

Thank you, Jordan.

This show is written and hosted by me Brendan Francis Nunham, The furthest I travel this week was the corner of Bedford Metropolitan to get a COVID test.

Came back negative for COVID but positive for RSV, so you know, it all evens out.

As usual, we receive top notch booking assistance from Laura Morgan.

This episode was edited by the wonderful Julia Barton with assistance from our cools of Cucumber managing producer Jacob Smith and our mix engineer is the unflappable Sarah brugere Not Lost as a co production of Pushkin Industry's Topic Studio and iHeartMedia.

It was developed at Topic Studios.

And yes, there are some executive producers on this show, including me, Brendan Francis Newnham, Christy Kressman, Maria Suckerman, Lisa line Gang and Lata Mulad.

If you dig what you here, please tell a friend, make a comment at Apple Podcasts, spread the word.

It's really appreciated.

And if your inboxes lonely, you can sign up for the Pushkin newsletter at Pushkin dot fm Slash Newsletter And if you'd like to find more Pushkin podcast and there are some great ones.

There's Talk Easy, there's Story the Week, There's death of an artist.

There's so much good stuff going on.

You can listen and find them on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or you know wherever you listen to podcast.

That's it for this episode.

Thanks so much everybody,