Pushkin.

The other week, I was being pre interviewed for a chat with podcast Playlist with Leah Simone Bowen, a CBC show that features yes podcasts, and a pre interview is what some sophisticated shows do.

They talk with a guest before they record the conversation, so everyone has an idea of what's going on.

You will not be surprised to learn that we don't conduct pre interviews here on not Lost Chat.

So I was being pre interviewed and the producer asked me who my favorite travel writers were, and my mind went completely blank.

The name Nabokov jumped in my head, but as far as I know, he never really wrote about travel.

And then I found myself saying, MFK.

Fisher, but she was a food writer who did write about France and California, but not really on the nose.

Then said something like, well, I don't really distinguish between what types of things people write about.

I just have favorite writers something Millie Mouth like that, and for a moment I realized how hard it is to be on the other side of questions.

It's funny when I interview someone, I often think they just have to answer questions.

They don't have to think of questions, they don't have to fake laugh that it's much easier on that side.

But that actually isn't really the case, and this pre interview reminded me of that.

So I lumbered through it all and at the end the producer said something sassy like, well, at least now you have an idea of what you're going to be asked when we're conducting the interview, or something like that.

Then later in the day, as I was coming home from work, walking through the park that separates my apartment from the subway, a book title popped into my head.

Black Lamb and Gray Falcon by Rebecca West.

This book which was written in nineteen thirty seven, when Europe was descending into war and terror.

It's this hulking book about the former Yugoslavia, a place I've spent a lot of time in, and the addition I have is one thousand, one hundred and fifty pages long.

It's the size of a cornerstone of a mausoleum, which is appropriate because you will kill yourself if you lug it around on your travel for weeks on end, as I have.

If you were to drop it on your foot, you would break your foot and lose any deposit you had on your Airbnb.

It's a real backbreaker.

It is considered rightly one of the best travel logs ever written.

Rebecca West herself was a towering journalist and cultural critic who is also known for covering the Norremberg Trials for The New Yorker and her type of writing in this book, which it wasn't just a personal journey she traveled with her husband, It wasn't just a dry history, it wasn't just for portage, but it was her applying her prodigious mind as she moved through this foreign land, trying to understand something about human beings.

And as it would turn out, it became a document that gave just insight into this moment in Europe before everything changed.

So as pleased with myself, I was like, great, when i sit for the actual interview with podcast playlist, I'm going to name drop this fantastic author, hit people to this cool book which maybe they haven't heard of, helped raise the profile of this wonderful author.

And then when I sat down for the show, I was never asked the question.

I was asked about the favorite places I visited.

I was asked about Eddison Greer.

All perfectly fine, pleasant conversation, honored to be on the show, but I felt like I was a suitor left holding a bouquet of flowers behind my back with no opportunity to present them until now Rebecca West, Ladies and gentlemen investigate.

And if she was alive today, I would have her on this series, but she's not so Instead, this week I've invited another fantastic female travel writer on the show, Sheryl Straight, who walked one thousand miles up the Pacific Coast Trail and wrote a book called Wild.

We'll have a conversation with her and then she'll also her etiquette questions when Not Lost gets back.

Welcome back to Not Lost Chat, my series of conversations with fellow travelers.

I'm Brendan Francis, Newnham, and today I am talking with author Cheryl Strade and conveniently for us, for me, Chryl's creative life can be organized into two distinct categories that happened to perfectly align with this show.

The first is life advisor.

Charles spent years as an advice calumnist for online literary magazine The Rumpus, where she answered questions anonymously in a column called Deer Sugar, and then in twenty twelve, she compiled some of her advice into a book of essays called Tiny Beautiful Things, which became a bestseller and is now being adapted into a TV show for Hulu.

So what I'm trying to say is Cheryl is a ringer for our travel etiquette segment, which will be coming up later in the show.

But the main reason I wanted to speak with Cheryl is because of her other creative identity, that of travel memoirist.

I think that's a word.

A few months before she published that collection of essays, she published a book called Wild, which is about a year in her early twenties when charl lost her mother to lung cancer, divorced her first husband, started using heroin, and then to get away from it all, she decides to hike more than a thousand miles alone on the Pacific Coast Trail.

It makes the premise of not Last Season one Like You Know, Elmo Travels Across Town Why became a huge bestseller and a hit movie starring Reese Witherspoon, and hiking the PCT and writing about it was a journey of self discovery for chryl.

So the first thing I asked her when I met up with her was, why do some of us have this impulse to just start moving when big things happen to us.

It's such a great question.

There are so many layers of answers that I have to it.

I think the first one is just a very sometimes a very simple and kind of surface impulse, which is to flee, to say, I need to escape this, this sorrow or this situation or this scene that I associate with things that hurt me.

I need to get out of here, get out of dodge, as they say, right, we know that like when we go venture out to parts unknown and to places that maybe we feel kind of like an outsider or that feel foreign to us, or we feel challenged in some way because we aren't at home, we aren't in the comfort zone.

We know that in those plays we're going to get what we most need at those moments where we feel lost or traumatized or adrift, and that is a deeper understanding of who we are and what the world is in our place in it.

You know, when we step outside that comfort zone literally, which we do every time we travel, we have an opportunity to see ourselves more clearly and the world more deeply.

And do you think that comes from Is it that we are away from our kind of patterns and the culture that has defined us, or is it also we're away from other people who kind of know us and have a certain framework for processing us.

I think it's both.

You know, the pattern thing is real.

A pattern is essentially a habit, and travel shakes us out of that literally from everything from very often the food we eat, to the landscape we see when we look out the window or when we go on a hike, to in the case of foreign travel, even the language that we hear.

Right, it's just everything is different and it has a way of waking us up because we have been broken out of that pattern.

But I think something you say about being different too because you're away from the people who know you is really powerful as well, because, of course the people who know you, they're wonderful people.

They love you, and very often some of them, but we are very often we rely on them to actually to know us, to be known as a wonderful feeling.

It makes us feel secure and treasured and yes, sometimes awful.

But you know.

Generally, the people we know make us feel known, right, and that's a good feeling, but that can also turn, you know, on itself, and we realize that sometimes the people we know are the people who have in some ways defined us in ways that we no longer find accurate, or sometimes that we even no longer want to be accurate.

For example, when I went alone on my Pacific Crest Trail hike in the summer of nineteen ninety five, part of it was getting away from this sort of group of twenty somethings i'd sort of been hanging out with.

And I don't blame them for any of the self destructive behavior I was doing at that time, drinking too much, being wildly promiscuous, using heroin, you know, I don't put any of that on the people I was around.

And yet those people were doing those things with me, and they saw me as part of them, and I was like, this isn't me, you know, this is not my life.

And part of my decision to adventure away and go hike on the PCT was just saying like, I'm gonna be different.

I'm gonna put myself in different company.

Now, the company I put myself in was my own in the wilderness.

Yeah, but you know, a similar thing can happen.

If I had had more money, I just would have gone to Paris or something.

So you hiked the trail in nineteen ninety five when you were twenty seven, and you published your memoir some years later when you're forty three.

I'm wondering which was more of a demarcation point in your life, the hike or writing the book and having it be published.

Well, without question, the hike, you know, in my life was the demarcation point, you know.

I began the trail honestly, really really at the lowest point in my life, really just feeling like what is my purpose and who have I become?

And what is my meaning?

And I didn't remember how strong I was.

I didn't remember how brave I was.

I didn't know how I was going to make good on my dreams of becoming a writer, you know.

And on the course of that trip, as I walked step by step, I sort of taught myself the answers to all those questions.

I taught myself, Oh, yeah, you are strong, and not because you're like, you know, so victorious or grand or triumphant, it's because you decide to keep going step by step even when it hurts.

And so, you know, when I got back finished my hike, I then you know, went onward in my life in a way that was different.

And of course writing the book was really powerful because it was like I got to look back and essentially like I had to you know, I had to tell the story and find the meaning in the story, the meaning that wasn't just about my life, but about what it means to be human.

And so of course that was also a very emotional journey.

You know, I learned a lot, but it didn't change my life in the way that the hike itself did.

Am I missing out?

Like there was an era where I did some I worked at Elisa National Park, I did do some out back hiking.

I did encounter a bear, but I'm kind of good with that.

Like like I'm like, I'm happy to look at the stars in the desert, but then I like would like a martini at the palms in so I can be missing out of some fundamental life moments if I just kind of skip out on the great outdoors from here.

Yes, yes, damn yes you are.

I mean, though I have to say it like I feel, I feel for you because I'm really glad I did it when I was young, because it's a lot easier.

I mean, that's what That's what I've amazed as me, Brendan.

I'd like look back at that t and I'm like, I slept every night, you know, on the ground, just on the hard ground, right, you know.

Now it's like, Okay, I got to have a tech repedic bed and like four pillows in the suit of a certain arrangement and a sleep mask.

You know, it's just amazing how rough and tumble I was.

But but here's the deal with that.

And I think that this is a larger truth about travel is that, you know, maybe it's doing what I did and sleeping in the dirt in the wilderness for days on end, and really being in a situation where you know, there were no luxuries at all.

The extreme, you know, let's put it this way.

When I would when I would come to you know, those those campgrounds in the woods where there's like an out house.

If I came to a campground that had an outhouse like which in normal life most people are really repulsed by, I felt like I was like the Queen of England because I got to actually sit, you know, instead of squatting in the dirt, which I normally did.

But you know, I think that that being really uncomfortable almost always is a really great teacher for us.

The times that we have to endure, the times that we have to suffer, the times that we have to keep going even when it hurts, those are the times that build us and that make us that I think deep in any trip, and of course, you know, my hike in the PCT was one end of the spectrum, like quite quite difficult, but even just little things like last summer, my husband and I we went to Europe for seven weeks and we had this whole trip like planned from France to Wales to Greece to you know, all through all through central Europe and you know, up the Danube and all of these things.

We were doing all these things, and our bags never made it with us and we got COVID.

So it was like, Okay, this isn't fun, this is hard, and we are uncomfortable and in a foreign place.

And it reminded me of some of those lessons I learned on the PCT, that those are the things that sometimes make the trip more interesting.

Yeah, I mean, maybe I shouldn't say this as the host of a travel show, but it's also you can just live in New York.

You can endure great difficulty every day and see the worst of humanity and still you know, get stronger hopefully.

Question Mark.

Absolutely, you know, I think that there is no city more like the wilderness the New York City.

I remember very clearly feeling that way about it.

You know, every time I go to New York City, it's like, this is like the wilderness because it's just so it's everything.

It's it's everything, and you're both very connected and very alone, just like you are on the wilderness.

Um so, so yeah, we're talking about wild You.

Then, you know your book Tiny Beautiful Things, your column Dear Sugar, which you now do a sub stack called Deer Sugar.

It's now Tiny Beautiful Things, which is a collection from some of the early days of your advice column, is now being turned into a TV show.

And just read Sorrying Catherine Han like, holy cow, yes, would could you picked the better person?

That's incredible?

Well, my question is do people ever ask you questions about journeys or traveling?

Oh that as you do this in all sorts of forms.

That's interesting.

You know.

In the in the intervening years, Steve Almond den I had a podcast called Deer Sugars and it's an advice podcast.

People wrote us letters and one thing that came up very often, I mean more than you would gas around it.

It's like people are really conflicted about, um, location, like should I move.

There was this one woman I'll never forget on the podcast.

She went to Paris and met some like fabulous man and she was like, we fell in love and to Paris and be with him.

And I was like, of course you should.

And Steve was like, oh, you know, be careful in this and that.

The other thing I'm like, I'm like, no, go, go go, and um, you know, I remember to a letter from somebody who met some hot Italian young man on the beach and data fling and I don't remember what she was asking about it, but I was always like, I'm always on the side of taking risks that involve venturing out, you know, And I do think that it is something that a lot of people grapple with.

And another thing that I know has come up for people sometimes is like you know, is travel a good investment.

Is this a good way to spend your money?

Or should you be practical?

Like I could put you know, ten thousand dollars in this savings account that I will have in my retirement, or I can take ten thousand dollars you know, to Kenya and I'll just tell you I've always been the person who will say go to Kenya.

Definitely, absolutely definite.

I feel like as I when I was younger, you know, corrupted by you know, Jack Carowake, etc.

I was running around the Gamaniac.

But now as I'm older, it's even more I'm feeling more urgency to see everything I can and and kind of not not because I feel like I'm going to miss out, but because I just know that I want to experience all, you know, all the things, and that our time is a little more limited than maybe we think when we're in our twenties.

I see it the same way like I can tell that you're really a kindred spirit when it comes to this way of thinking, is I do I actually do think of it as an investment, you know that, like travel has really improved, like it's it's improved my well being.

I think I'm a better writer because of travel.

I think I'm a better person because of travel.

I think I'm a better parent because of travel.

And you know, it doesn't feel like just like vacation.

You know, usually it's about having some kind of adventure or having some kind of going on a journey that's about something deeper than just seeing the sights and and I believe in that something that maybe everyone knows and thinks about this with you, but I didn't realize until I was revisiting your work.

And forgive me for being such a ding that, but um strayed is your You chose that name, that's right, which to me, like again, for maybe there's even people encounter you with tiny beautiful things and just assume that your god given name.

Can you remind us why you chose it?

Yeah?

So I was born Cheryl Nyland.

My father's last name was Nyland, and that's what I was as a kid.

And I got married just like scandalously young, no regrets in terms of like, I absolutely loved my first husband, so that was good.

But you know, we were just young in love and you know, for reasons that are really crazy and useful, we decided to get married.

We should have just fitting each other's boyfriend and girlfriend.

But we decided to get married and we took on each other's names because we were like, we're going to be really feminist about it, and I'm going to take on your name, and you're gonna take a mine, and we're gonna have this really long name that was Nyland litig Well.

And so when we got divorced, when I was like twenty five, I knew that I didn't want to go back to being Cheryl n Island.

I was estranged for my dad since I was a young child.

He was, you know, not a great dad.

He was abusive and just not a good force in my life.

And I knew I couldn't drag around this long hyphenated name from my marriage.

And of course I'm a writer, you know, I'm somebody who thinks a lot about words and a lot about language.

And so, and my mom was dead.

I was really an orphan.

I didn't have a father, I didn't have a mother, I didn't have really anything except my own life.

And I knew that I needed to move into this new life with a word that would be that would become mine, that would be become my true name.

I spent a lot of time thinking about it wasn't just some sort of spontaneous thing.

I really thought about different words that might define or communicate to myself in the world who I was.

And I came upon this word strade, and I loved the meaning of it.

You know, it really is somebody who who moves through the world, motherless and fatherless, somebody who strays off the regular path and finds their way.

I think a lot of people hear that word straight and they think like, I was somebody who's lost, And for me, I think it's really somebody who sort of has to blaze their own trail.

And when my husband and I got divorced, just on the divorce paperwork, you could write in this form my name after this divorce will be and I just wrote Cheryl Straight, and that's who I, you know, became.

And what's so funny and interesting to me, Brendon, as so many people who ask about the name, We're like, well, Straight, isn't your real name?

And it's like it is.

It's It's the realist name I've ever had, you know, Like when women get married and take on their husband's name, like nobody says like, well, that's not your real name.

Yeah.

I particularly like how the words strayed, you know.

I think initially the connotation people think, yeah, something like a stray cat, it's something abandoned, But there's a much broader definition about someone who kind of goes off the beaten path, fears away.

And I like how you own that and then by the force of your success, that word is in every bookstore.

You know, it's one movie screen, you know, like you you really you took it and made it your own.

Love that my name is a sentence.

I love that.

I love that.

I'm going to have to think about what my name would be if I were to name myself, it would probably be something like Brendan Knapps, Brendan Snacks.

I'm gonna I'm gonna need to workshop it.

In the meantime, we're gonna take a quick break.

But when I come back, hopefully you will help me answer some travel questions.

Stick around.

Welcome back to Not Lost Chat Today.

My guest is writer Chryl Straight and Chryl on this show, like my old show, which you also visited, we solicit etiquette questions, travel etiquette questions, and when I initially decided to talk with you, I wasn't going to ask you to answer questions, but when people found out I was talking with you, they immediately started giving me questions.

So I'd like to run some of these value if that's okay, okay real?

I mean, yeah, I'm an advice columnist.

You know you are, no, I know, but I thought, you know, sometimes it's like the comedian at dinner and you're like, be funny.

All right.

So I have a few questions from in house here at pushkin them out.

This first one I really I like, and I'm meager to hear your answer.

The question comes from Jordan, and Jordan writes, how do you know in a moment you experience in your travels is worth writing down?

What's different about it that makes it worth remembering?

Well, I think there's a They're really a couple stages to writing, and the first one is I think you should write everything down.

I think you should write down everything you're thinking and feeling, and the small things, the little gestures, the person sitting next to you in the cafe, the kind of ice cream you're eating.

All of those details are what make a really rich portrait.

One thing I'm doing, Brendan, that's been so interesting to me is I just decided to transcribe all my journals.

So I used to keep a journal pretty religiously from about the age of nineteen until my late thirties, kind of forty ish, and so I have, like, you know, like really two decades of journals, and just I'm sitting there in front of my computer and I'm transcribing them.

I'm just typing into a word document everything I wrote.

And at nineteen I got married, Like I got married a month before my twentieth birthday, and my ex husband and I we went to Ireland.

We'd had these like student work visas, and I got a job in a vegetarian cafe in Dublin.

And it was nineteen eighty eight.

And I have these journals and it's been so amazing to transcribe them.

And I'm so glad that I that I took my own advice, the advice I'm giving Jordan, which is just write everything down, you know, take note, make a make a word portrait, you know, as often as you can, about not just what you see and smell and hear, about what you're feeling, what you're thinking, what's making you happy, what's making you sad?

What are you remembering about home?

You know, everything you can put it on the page, because it later becomes a treasure if you're a writer, like you're like, how does this experience of this young woman for the first time in a foreign country, how does that tell a more universal story?

And then you start to make, you know, decisions about like what's the most interesting or what's what are the universal threads.

That's what I always look for in writing, Like, for example, in Wild, the point of Wild isn't like I'm such an interesting person because I walked a really long way on this wilderness trail.

You know.

Really, I think the reason that Wild resonates with so many people is I told a deep story about what does it mean like to have to bear the unbearable, like to carry that heavy backpacks for that very drugged terrain, and I had to keep moving forward even when it hurt.

And it's a deeper story about not just my journey, but what journey means.

Journey is all about figuring out how you can do what you think you can't do.

My problem, which I have every day of my life and certainly when I'm in traveling, is I wake up in the morning and I'm like, I want to have a coffee.

Maybe I want to exercise, maybe I want to run, Maybe I want to experience this, like, oh, I want to watch the sunrise over this thing.

Maybe I donna.

When do you write like like this this idea of like write everything down?

It's like what, I'm too busy living like and I don't have a good memory.

My brain is a sieve, and so yeah, when do you write?

Well?

I think that in both life and and maybe especially in travel, you know, where you feel sort of like I'm here to do all these different things and see all the different things.

Part of experiencing a place and part of living.

I think a balanced in healthy life is having time for you know, contemplation and reflection and you know, to me, I mean honestly, one of my absolutely favorite things to do when I travel is, you know, wander around the city or the town or the village or whatever and just find a place to sit and write, you know, whether it be a cafe or a bar, or a mountainside or a stone wall, you know, in some little funky part of town.

You know, just take those ten minutes to just jot down what you're thinking, and you know, of course in life.

For me, in a strange way, it's actually harder for me to do in life than when I'm traveling, because I do try to make that kind of contemplative space part of the trip.

But in life, yeah, you just you actually have to make the same commitment to that as you do to everything else.

If you decide that you want to be somebody who exercises most days, you exercise most days.

And if you decide do you want to be somebody who writes most days, you write most days.

Oh man, oh man, listen, way easier south than um.

Okay.

This next question comes from Anna, and Anna asks what are the best shoes to bring on a non hiking trip?

Do you just suck it up and wear ugly yet comfy sneakers at a chic European museum?

What if it rains?

I love this intersection of the practical and the not so practical.

Oh my goodness, this and this is such a really hard question.

So Anna, like, I absolutely one hundred percent feel this question, and I have lived through it for many years now.

Because it is especially for women, I will say, you know, we do have to make this choice very often between you know, real comfort and looking at least somewhat decent, you know, and cool and you know, cute with whatever outfort we're wearing.

But I've I've solidly landed on this truth, and I've learned earned it the hard way.

Anyone who's read Wild knows how much I have struggled with shoes and what a price I've hate for it, losing my tone nails.

Is that, you know, comfort really matters a lot, because of course, you can go to that museum and you won't be able to focus on the art if all you're thinking about is how much your feet are killing you.

So often, the most impressive person of all is the person who doesn't conform, who doesn't look like they wore those shoes because they want you to think that they look cute.

They wore those shoes because that's what they feel good.

And to me, like that's the best look of all when you see somebody who's really like comfortable in their body and at ease and able to move in a way that makes them feel good, And it begins with the shoes.

So go in the direction of comfort and own it all the way and until you look like the coolest woman in the room.

Here's another move.

How about a middleway, which is I've done this.

You could go to a vintage store like you could buy Probably you don't have to travel with sexy footwear necessarily or good footwear, but if you're going to a very fancy meal or invited in some event where it's dress up, you know, I love going through vintage stores and like Rome or other places, and you can maybe quickly assemble a kind of glamorous outfit that you maybe wouldn't feel bad leaving behind.

Sure.

I mean one thing I did last summer.

I was in Europe for this like seven week trip that included all these different things, like everything from hiking in whales to going to like a really fancy, very you know, Hollywood party in Greece, I mean really really well dressed people.

And I was like, listen, I'm not going to be able to like compete with that or where you know, stilettos or you know it wasn't interested in that, but I do need something to wear with dresses.

And I did exactly what you suggested.

I mean, it's like, okay, I'll buy a pair of like kind of fancy flip flops when I'm actually in this beach town that I'm going to on this island, right, and you can like have that look.

It's not fancy, but it's a little less clunky than the big comfy, you know, sneakers that you might wear all day long at the museum.

So switch it up, switch it up.

The only danger there is I've made the mistake.

I had my luggage lost in Portugal this summer, and you find yourself at a Benetton, and you can end up buying like a mock turtleneck sleeveless shirt like you, I end up looking like this euro like this euro club kid, which is definitely not my default look.

So you got to be careful.

You might go, yeah, yeah, I made a similar mistake.

I bought like a very bright green kind of like mumu sort of dress, you know how they always have those in like beat places.

And then I saw photographs of myself and I was like, WHOA what was I thinking?

I just I know, all right, I've one last question.

This question comes from Leah, and I think you're uniquely suited to answer it, and the question is what types of books are best to bring on vacation.

That's a great one.

That's a great one.

You know.

It also makes me smile because when I was hiking the trail at first of all, books were like my only companion because I very often would go days without seeing another person.

So books really really were important.

They were like my only portal into somebody else's mind, you know, other than my own.

And because I was a backpacker and carrying the weight of one book at a time, as I read most of the books, I would just burn them, which just seemed like so sacrilegious, you know, as somebody who loves books.

It was like, yeah, I'm just going to light this book on fire and burn it.

But I didn't want to carry the pages, so I did that.

And at the end of Wild I have this list, you know, the books I burned on the PCT.

And so many people have asked me like, did you really think you know really hard about which books to bring?

And what's funny is I didn't.

I just really like walked along my bookshelf and grabbed various books from it that I had and had never read and had been meaning to read and put them in each of my resupply boxes.

And resupply boxes are basically packages friends would send you at different points in your trip.

I loved every book I read on the PCD, and there was something really cool about serendipity of just saying, you know, I have never gotten around to reading William Faulkner's As I Lay Dying, and I put it into one of my boxes and it became one of my favorite books.

There's also sometimes, you know, it's really cool to curate a list of books that like are in some way about the place you're visiting, or set in the place you're visiting, or written by people who are from the place you're traveling to.

And that can be really cool too, to actually try to deepen the lived experience you're having by reading books about it as well.

I went to Iceland a couple of years ago, and I had never read the literature of the country, and I found this novel called miss Iceland by this author who I absolutely love.

And I'm not going to say her name because I just don't know how to pronounce it, but it's called miss Iceland, and it's just this really wonderful novel set in Iceland and many decades ago.

But it's like it gave me a sense of the country and the place and the sensibility that that deepened my experience.

Then when I got to Iceland, I kept remembering this, this main character in the novel, and you know, she worked at this hotel in Rekuveck, and and I like, I walked by these historic hotels and I'd think, oh, that that's like where the character worked, like and there was something that felt really wonderful about going to the country having read something that was set there, written by somebody who is from there.

Yeah, it's like knowing if that And you know, I think books, yeah, you know, never, I mean I would never think of traveling anywhere without a book, because when you have a book, you always have a companion.

I think that that can be really grounding to have just like that sort of touchstone of a story that you're involved in while you're also in this new world.

Well, I think the books you took in wild there were literary works, and I think there's a lot to be said for a beach read or getting some genre reading in.

But I do think I will often bring like I feel like I've only read Nabokov, like On Vacation or Cheam Salt or some of these kind of heavier hitters because sometimes it's harder for me to crack open and get in there.

But if it's the one English language book you have in your pack, you're gonna really kind of steep in it in a way that you maybe wouldn't if it's just you're reading it on the sub I agree.

I don't like the whole idea that a beach read is like a light reader.

I go for the heavy books because also when you're on a trip, you often have more hours than in the day two read, so you can sink in m Chrystade, thank you so much for chatting with me.

I'm excited to check out your show when it comes out on Hulu, and I'm excited to share this with my audience.

Thank you so much for taking Thank you.

It was really a pleasure to talk to you.

And I have to say it happy trails.

That was Sheryl Straid.

The Tiny Beautiful Things TV show will be out on Hulu this spring, and if you haven't read Wild or haven't looked at it in a while, I encourage you to go back.

It is a luck grittier than I remembered.

It is a pretty good read that confirms my decision not to go into the great outdoors anymore.

So that's it for this edition of That Lost Chat.

If you have travel questions that you want answered in a future episode, we got one more left for this series.

Please email them to me at not Lost at Pushkin dot fm or Pingey at bf snacks on Twitter.

Not Lost Chat is produced by Jordan Bailly, who, as we all know, travels a lot more than me.

In fact, she's heading to CDMX in just a couple of weeks.

The show is written and hosted by me Brendan Francis Nunham.

Booking assistance came from Laura Morgan.

This episode was edited by Julia Barton with assistance from Managing producer Jacob Smith.

Our mix engineer and co producer is the brilliant and wonderful Sarah Brugure.

Not Lost as a co production of Pushkin Industries, Topic Studios and iHeartMedia.

It was developed at Topic Studios.

Executive producers include me Brendan Francis Nunham, Christy Gressman, Maria Zuckerman, Lisa line Gang and Latom Malade.

And if you enjoy what you here, please tell a friend, make a commented Apple podcast, spread the word.

It's all greatly appreciated, and as ever, if your inboxes lonely, sign up for the Pushkin newsletter at Pushkin dot fm, slash newsletter.

If you'd like to listen to more Pushkin podcast and there's some great stuff happening, we got deep cover.

You can go back in time and listen to Death of an Artist, which is a fantastic show, lots of good stuff, Loudest Girl in the World, Story of the Week.

You can listen and find them on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast or wherever you listen to podcast.

That's it for this episode.

Thank you for listening to the end.

Bo