So yesterday Pierce Morgan sat down with Nick Fences on his show and it was an absolute dumpster fire of them basically embarrassing each other.

And they, they did embarrass each other.

I know the groupers are going to be in the chat angry.

We're going to go over some clips.

I'm going to give Pierce the foolishness that he represented fairly accurately.

And then we're also going to just show a couple times where Nick just flat out gets owned on the things that I've been pushing back against with him for years now.

OK, now heads up, there is going to be some very sensitive topics here.

So Kaiji kids, hide your wife if this offends you.

This is the first clip and this is them specifically talking about Nick's views on Jews, women and race and and black people.

OK, before we get any further in this conversation and we're going to go in the weeds and talk about all the different angles, I got to let you guys know I'm actually coming on tour to a city near you.

I'm actually going to Nick's town in Chicago, which is the the Chicago is killing it right now on ticket sales.

But before we tell you about Chicago, March 21st I'll be in Houston, TX at the House of Blues.

If you read my book, Godly Ambition, you know how much that venue means to me.

Dallas, TX I'm at the Echo Lounge, Chicago 10th I am at Park West and then we're in the Pitts area, Oakmount at the Oaks Theater, then the DC area.

Arlington, VA April 26 I'm in New York City at the Sony Music Hall.

May 9th I'm at Los Angeles at the Fine Arts Theater.

Clearwater, FL May 15th in the Tampa area and Atlanta, GA closing out the whole tour at Center Stage.

If you want to come hang out with me, I'm going to be doing a talk, introducing some new music, doing a live podcast just like this.

Go hit the link in the pin comment.

Get your tickets now.

I can't wait to see some of you guys have these conversations in person.

Encourage and power, inspire you to live a life that blesses God while we come together, hang, there'll be some live worship, live music, all that good stuff.

Hit the link in the pin comment.

Let's jump back into this video.

They can go back and listen to you say it.

I mean, the beauty of what I'm going to talk to you about in this interview is that almost all of it is just going to be reminding you what you have said.

I want to come to to something else you said.

This is where you talk about Jews, women and blacks.

Let's just take a listen.

They're always coming up with no, it's not the Jews.

No, it's not women.

No, it's not blacks.

It's actually really complicated.

No it isn't at all.

Jews are running society, women need to shut the fuck up, blacks need to be imprisoned for the most part and we would live in paradise.

It's that simple.

Now I've pointed out repeatedly, would it would that that that most part, right?

And I'm glad that he's saying it and he's standing by it because he does.

He says all of this is true right here.

Oh my goodness.

Piers Morgan ends up pulling crime statistics.

OK, And completely checking him on this now again, this Susan Pierce Morgan owning the conversation, he took some else here, but this right here to me is the easiest thing that Nick could have walked back had he just conceded the data and the data is just not in his favor at all.

Would you like to clarify what you meant there?

That's all true.

That's 100% true.

Everything I said in that clip is true.

Including that blacks need to be imprisoned for the most part.

Yeah.

Yes.

But all of them.

Not for the most part.

What is the most part mean?

What percentage of American blacks would you like to see in prison?

Whatever the percentages of the, I think it's one in 20 black men will commit in their lifetime.

So maybe let's say that 5%.

OK, so this is a complete L on on Nick's part.

Nick says one in 20.

Yeah, OK.

The issue with that is that that's not true.

And they they pulled the data, they showed it to him.

It's absolutely not true.

So what happened was he he ends up citing something that is just inaccurate.

He got confused.

The person who may have cited made it up is that one.

There's a study that said one in 21 black men would potentially be in their lifetime, not that one in 20 black men will be in their lifetime.

OK, Yeah.

So he ends up citing this this study on X, which is data hazard.

It's not peer reviewed, it's not a criminologist.

There's no DOJ FBI statistics on there.

And the study even confuses the one in 20 versus the one in 21.

Black men will be murdered.

So one in 21 black men will be murdered.

It was it was a study that that that's actually older.

OK, Yeah.

So the the data is just just not on his side.

But let's let him kind of kind of flesh this out a bit more.

Talking about black people who murder people, yeah.

Oh, absolutely, yeah.

We didn't say that.

You just said blacks need to be imprisoned for the most part.

So, so that that's the issue, right?

Like it's like the the most part and all the all the black folks to Cape for this nonsense is like you don't understand that this dude is dehumanizing you because he's not adding the same caveats.

And when Piers Morgan properly presses him on the other aspects that you're identifying, it's just for the most part is like, whoa, like the the data is not there and you're.

And even if it is one in 20, which it isn't, yeah, for the most part.

He said for the most part, and then he said let's say, let's call it 5% need to be in prison.

That's one in 20.

Yeah, but that's not even the most part, and the most part would be at least over.

50% right, right.

So when we hear So what does most part mean?

Exactly.

So even even he's going back on what he is saying originally but yet still saying he stands behind it, which is weird.

Yeah, you were talking about black.

Right, Right.

No, you're right.

That's a good addition to that.

You know, Irena Zarutzka wasn't the first one.

That was also after Austin Metcalf was killed in Texas.

Sure.

After Carla, how many?

Times Has it been invited by white people?

Well, hang on, let me finish my.

Point, but the kind of white people don't do this.

And my point to you is of course, of course, of course deranged white people commit heinous acts.

But you don't either know agreement.

You either you neither know nor care, or maybe both.

Maybe you do know, but don't don't care.

You only seem to be.

Focused so, so this is again, the hasty generalization fallacy as he is looking at horrible incidents with regarding the Ukrainian refugee and the Metcalf situation.

And then you're and it's just not just Nick, it's it's Matt Walsh, it's Steven Crowder, it's this whole black fatigue fatigue thing.

And you're you're taking too small of a sample size based on anecdotal experience.

Except instead of saying, how prevalent is this, right?

How prevalent is this?

And again, this then leads to dehumanization because now you're looking at and for the most part, blacks need to be imprisoned.

What does that mean?

So that means when you're out and about.

And so blacks, for the most part, blacks at your church, blacks at like, what does that mean, right?

On black people who commit crimes.

And again, if you hadn't prefaced the whole debate about racism by openly conceding you are a racist, I could read other connotations into what you've been saying.

But once you've said I'm a racist and then you only talk about black crime, I think people can watch this and they can say, yeah, he is.

He's a racist.

And everything that he says about crime is driven through the prism of being a race to judge his people according to their skin color.

So Piers Morgan is going to properly point out the statistics here.

Why does this matter?

Because when you're taking too small of a sample size, you're spreading it out, whether that's women, blacks, Jews, whatever.

You are then dehumanizing entire groups of people.

This is the hasty generalization fallacy, in my opinion.

When you then have these views of people in broad strokes like this, it, it zaps you of your ability to love folks who are image bearers, folks who are created in the image of God, and to see them as equal.

Yes, we're all different in different ways.

Men and women are obviously different, but to see them as equal image bearers of God, you dehumanize them.

So for the most part, this is, in my opinion, rather disgusting rhetoric.

And so Piers Morgan then points out the proper crime statistics to him right here.

The percentage of black men who commit in America, What was the percentage you gave me?

It's one in 21 in 20.

It's it's one in 100.

No, it's one in 20.

No, no less than one in 100 black US men commitment.

That's the most up to date crime statistics in America.

That's not true.

I've I've seen other statistics they say.

So, so this is the thing, right?

Like, like, and these are the statistics according to the FBI, according to the crime statistics.

And so you point people to actual numbers and you go, hey bro, you, you really grossly exaggerated.

This, yeah.

Yeah, right.

And that's bad.

Now he just denies it.

Now here's where Pierce messes up, and I'll get to that in a second, but the denial of it, I think is so gross.

Just just say, oh, I didn't know that.

What statistics?

Right, Because he quotes his statistics and his statistics are completely bumped.

And 20 will eventually commit a murder.

Eventually commit A 5% of black men will eventually commit a murder.

That's crazy talk.

That's insane.

And it's also saying to put a statistic around a probability.

So it's like they will eventually.

It's like, what does that mean?

That there's no statistics for things that eventually could happen.

Right right now, I'm going to get into Pierce's L here in a second.

You're saying that?

Five times as many black men commitment as the official crime statistics say.

Right, that's the issue.

Yeah, there's a report I believe on X by data hazard.

I'll have to go and double check that for you.

But yes, there's some pretty shocking evidence that says that it's far more alarming than you would.

Think, yeah.

So data hazard is not peer reviewed, it's not official in any way, shape or form.

So here are the actual numbers when we look at the statistics, OK, So there are an average of 15,000 homicides per year, OK?

And so even if every arrest it was a a unique black male, it isn't that would maybe be 5000 black homicides per year, OK, There's 20 million black men in America, OK, So the most part, yes.

So, so 20 million / 7 or 7000 / 20 million, OK, you get .035 percent per year.

So he wants to put at least 51% in prison, which we're looking, you know, let's just say 11 million people in prison for the actions of 7000.

All right, for the most.

Part for the most part.

For the most part, that is even more damning.

OK, so OK, 20 million black men in America.

Yes, OK, let's just say 7000 of the murders are committed by black men, OK?

So that's 0.035% per year, OK, Even if you extend that across 50 years?

OK.

OK, that's not counting offenders who reoffend.

That's not counting repeat arrests.

That's not counting.

A new 7000 every single year.

That's not counting juveniles.

Arrests don't always equal convictions, OK?

And they don't always equal unique offenders, OK.

So even if you were to, to grant him that across 50 years, you're still, according to peer reviewed criminology reports, you're still at the offender rate of black men being approximately .5 to 1% depending on what methodology you use.

So Piers Morgan is absolutely right.

Nick Food says is absolutely wrong.

It's not 20%, it's not normal.

It's nowhere near 20%.

And again, where he got the the data from was there was a CDCDOJ analysis showing that one in 21 black males die by a homicide, not one in 20 will commit homicide.

OK.

Yeah, it's a huge difference.

So so that's a huge difference.

So this dude is throwing these things out.

And again, like this is distorting how people like view fellow image bearers of God.

Like it's not inconsequential.

Your brain is going to get zapped by this sort of nonsense and it's just wrong data.

Now here's where Pierce messed up is Nate kept pointing out to the proportionality.

Well, what percentage of black people are there versus the percentage of homicide arrests?

Now, remember, arrests aren't always convictions and arrests aren't always, you know, definite declarations that they're guilty.

And that's the part that I think white liberals, white progressives, or just people in general aren't comfortable to talk about is like, well, why?

Why is there a higher disproportionate range of of black men that commit violent crimes?

Right.

And I think, and I think the reasonable conclusion because Nicks view is he's a race realist.

He thinks it's intrinsic, like people just more violent.

That's right.

I think it's a byproduct of fatherlessness, which is connected to a plethora of issues.

It's connected to values, it's connected to culture.

It is connected to bad crime bills where there was a three strikes law, where there was laws from the war on drugs where people had the 100 to one coke to crack disparity in the 80s and 94 crime bill that Joe Biden pushed.

So there's a plethora of reasons.

When you ZAP fathers from the home, that is the biggest indicator of if young men will become criminals.

Yeah, I mean, that makes sense.

So later in the conversation, Piers Morgan then points out that the vast majority of mass happen by white males.

Now people will go, well, you know, like Charlie Kirk, I said, well, what do you mean by mass?

Do you mean gang related or non gang related and non gang related school predominantly are committed by white men.

Nick acknowledges this and but but he provides descriptors to it.

And that's that's the issue with all of this sort of stuff.

It's like when you remove the descriptors that he's going to provide for white men, you then ignore that there are also descriptors for black men that commit crimes, right?

And and we'll get to those.

Another thing that people don't know is that white men disproportionately commit more Beastie.

So, so are you then going to take that as a as a as a intrinsic view that white men are just just man proportionally are going to sleep with animals more.

Be careful when you bring a dog around a white dude.

Or is it just because white people are more proportionally dog owners so there's access to access?

That's wild.

All right, let's play this clip.

It's not even comparable and and I would add I would say this.

So this is, this is, this is, this is Pierce's L on proportionality.

If you're in a high school and you and truly if you see a white person who looks like a little autistic, he's got the SSRI stare and he reaches for a backpack, people joke and say run.

Similarly, if you see a jalopy pulling up with a bunch of black people in it and they got their pants around the ankles, you're going to run also.

So you see what he did there?

Yeah.

So this is this is the gross part about Nick Foon says is he'll add these descriptors for white people.

Yeah, right.

If he's on SSRI's and he looks a little artistic, run, Right, because he might be a school.

And then if you see a bunch of black people with their pants behind their ankles and they pull up, run.

OK.

Yeah.

But you didn't say that.

You didn't say.

Yeah, if you're in a, if you're in a alley in Chicago and you're surrounded by black dudes, you should run.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, right.

Like, because if you're in downtown Chicago.

Disproportionate amount of push heisties, right?

Right.

So there's a bunch of But if you're but if you're in downtown Chicago and you see a group of black men in suits, yeah.

Are you going to run?

No, no, you're not going to run.

And if you're in a trailer park that you stumble into and you see a bunch of dudes with biker cuts and face tattoos that look like Shane Smith, shout out to Shane Smith.

I love you, brother, but you know what I'm talking about you you probably going to run right?

So that's the frustrating part is that he qualifies when it's for white folks.

He and then he does qualify for black folks, but.

Only when he's qualifying for the white folks.

Only when he's qualifying for the white folks.

So so this is the issue is that caping for this even like the weird black people like Cape for this is like, bro, we understand that there's crime within the black community.

We understand that.

So there's also fatherlessness, like these things should be allowed to be talked about, but they're going to go back much to culture and value.

And how do you get cultures and value?

Then it is going to be intrinsic.

By intrinsic, he means this is just who they are.

Doug, that's gross, that's gross, that's gross.

So I think Piers Morgan owns him on some of the data fumbles because he's afraid to address the professionality, yeah, proportionality side of the conversation.

And I think you should be able to lean into that and just say, hey, now this is what it is like, yes, there is a higher disproportionate range wide because fatherlessness is higher in the black community.

That is the number one indicator on if someone's going to be in prison is if their dad is in their life or not.

OK.

Now, another L that Piers Morgan caught here is teasing Nick about being a virgin while claiming to be a Catholic.

I, I, I think this is in, in my opinion, I, I, I don't think this is like, he's like, oh, you haven't had any.

And, and yes, like Nick probably would be a different dude if he was married with kids.

Like I think that is what it is.

But I wish that I wish he wouldn't have approached this that way because there are some incredible questions about his sexuality.

But the way Pierce did it, I think is a big crunch go.

Ahead.

I mean, I know I'm the boomer, I know I'm the boomer here, but actually, you're a 27 year old dinosaur, aren't you?

Aren't you Nick Fuentes?

All women.

All women are this like antagonistic tone, aren't you Nick?

Like it's like he's trying to get a moment.

So cringe.

He's trying to get a moment, you know?

All women grow old.

They all get fat, says the guy.

Have you ever had sex?

No, absolutely not.

Wow, says the guy who's never got laid.

It's like that's not the own you think it is.

Yeah, it's not, It's not because he's an outspoken Catholic.

The the better own is the is the his actual views to his Catholic faith.

Yeah.

And how those don't line up at all.

Yeah, not to be like, oh dude, you're so dry.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That to me was bad.

That's.

The thing though, you boomers, it's all when.

You.

Explain.

Women free, love given.

You've never gone.

You pull the free love card on them.

That's.

Good.

That was good.

That was good part.

So Ellen Pierce's part.

Do you think your views on women might change if you actually never had a relationship with one or had sex and actually had a proper relationship?

I mean, people say the reason you're so angry about women is you're basically an insult.

I'm not angry about it.

You sound very angry.

You sound very, very angry about women.

They get passionate that.

It's an issue you're.

Passionate.

You're you're actually, you're sounding very bitter about women, as if, as if women have done a terrible disservice to you.

But when you don't have relationships, you don't have sex.

When are they doing these terrible things to you?

This made you so hateful towards women.

I'm really curious.

Was that I don't think that was a hateful clip.

I think I was laughing.

I said they want men to the shot of them and I and that's just true.

I mean, when you look at the state of modern women, all they do is lay in their bed, doom stroll, They're chilling out, they're getting a little look, they're getting a little fat.

It is what it is.

I don't know what the.

So so again, like hasty generalization fallacy, right, Like which modern women in which cities doing what?

If you're talking about like chronically online women who are in major cities that go on like Fresh and Fit and Sneako runs through, then like yeah, those, yes.

But they're also not getting fat.

All those are getting.

Fat, I mean, I don't know, the metabolism slows down, you know?

I'm talking about the like, there's like the club people that that are on fresh and fit and they are like not large women.

Yeah, those are all F models though and those are going to be different.

So I, I, I think, I think Nick again, hasty generalization fallacy, too small of a sample size, right, Because he just described the opposite of the type of women that go to church.

I do like when Pierce was kind of like, when did when did you ever have an opportunity?

To be mad at women.

Yeah, yeah.

Like you have no interaction with them.

Yeah, yeah.

His mom must be insufferable.

Yeah, the the there's another L part where Nick and I won't play it here, but Nick basically starts to meltdown because Pierce shows reads back an anecdote of his dad not taking them to certain restaurants because they were black fare.

And and Nick's like, well, why would you bring my dad into it?

And Pierce's like, because you brought your dad into it.

Like you talk to this antidote, you share this on your platform.

And I thought that was a Big L on his part.

It's like, what are you talking about, dad?

And it's like because you talk about your dad, you think that's a new low As a both person, you have the right to not put your family in your content online, right.

And the fact that he, he did that.

Is free to talk about you said that your dad brought you up this way.

So Pierce is just trying to connect the dots and say, are you a product of your environment?

So then Pierce segues into Nick saying the mustache man is pretty effing cool.

And here I think is just the the absolute disconnect of generations here.

Yeah, I want to play you 22 clips.

1 is where you talk about Adolf.

Hitler.

There was a smile and kind of a Pagan.

It's like, well, he was also really fucking cool.

So, you know, time to grow up.

We're not we're not children anymore.

Am I right?

Am I right?

Am I right boys?

Am I right?

Let's go.

He was also really fucking.

Cool, do you regret saying that?

Saying a fact?

No, no, that's absolutely true.

You think it was very fucking cool?

Yes.

And.

I'm tired of pretending he's not.

Well, to be honest, this is the problem.

You see, it's a bit like when you just say I'm a racist.

You're a racist who thinks Hitler's cool, but you're not anti-Semitic.

If you're a Jewish person watching this, what are they thinking?

I'll tell you what they're thinking because I've got a friend of mine called Danny Finkelstein.

Who so he is him with this like gotcha moment the homie pipes in tells the story of losing his family in the Holocaust and then Nick basically this is the the disconnect generationally that happens here.

OK, let's let's let's jump ahead.

So this dude shares has family was lost and all it it really really sad stuff under Stalin under Hitler.

That's crazy play play.

The rest is.

He was 18 when someone tried to cancel him.

Well, Stalin and arrested my mum and my dad when they were 10 years.

Old So I mean, that's that's a great point.

Like, dude, you're mad at the establishment because they cancelled you at 18.

You were and January 6th they took away all your banking, yadda, yadda.

You got all that back.

By the way, people still claim like he's on a no flight zone now.

He's not, he's still flying.

He has always been back, but that made him radicalize and made him mad.

And it's like, well, what do you, how do you think Jewish people feel who like actually lost people in the in the Holocaust?

How do you think they feel about this stuff?

Yeah, right.

You're mad that you like you didn't have banking for a while and you couldn't travel.

It's like no no Imagine like losing multiple family members.

Thanks St.

Patsy might like to reconsider his joke.

See is that's the reality of your jokes, Although I haven't ascertained yet whether you are joking when you say that Hitler was very fucking cool.

Are you joking or do you actually think he was very cool?

The most genuine monster of the last 150 years.

Yeah, the The thing is, my generation, we're just done with the Pearl clutching, you know, well.

You might maybe then your generation hasn't gone through what Danny Finkelstein's family went through.

So yeah, maybe, maybe the Pearl clutching has a way to go for families who's.

So he he nothing.

This doesn't.

He doesn't have an argument for this.

Yeah, yeah, he doesn't.

Have argument for this.

It's like we're doing with the Pearl.

It's like what is your response?

You have nothing.

Hello.

Good family members.

Oh, my gosh.

Yeah, we, we got all that.

We you know, me, me mom, me mom.

Like we're, you know, I don't even know who this person is.

Why is this person talking to me?

This old British guy is saying me mom got killed by Hitler.

And he doesn't find it funny when you say Hitler's very.

Fucking I don't.

Care.

I don't care.

You don't care.

So he's saying like the generational clash is the difference between a generation that new people that went through something or actually did go through something really insane versus like this chronically online kind of like.

Edge Lord humor.

Yeah, nothing's as bad as it as it was originally and it's kind of all past history and we can look at it from a more subjective lens and it's not objectively bad.

I mean, he literally goes like, is it, is it, are the jokes too soon?

You know that we got to wait longer, right?

And it's like the the generational thing, though, is not, is not just that, it's the, it's the reality that like young men, generally speaking, are going to pick abhorrent and deviant things to consume and engage with.

Whether that's kids in the South Side of Chicago who commit all the crime, According to him, listening to other demonic drill music or white kids that are getting radicalized because they're consuming Nick Funes.

And it's like, I don't give a crap about the about anything.

You're not going to lecture me.

Go ahead.

Because he ends up saying that.

That's crazy.

It's fine, you don't have to care, but he does.

Does that guy care about America?

Does that guy care about me and my country and my family?

No.

He cares what you he probably.

So it's like, what does that have to do with anything?

First of all, yeah, let's say he doesn't care.

Yeah.

How is that relevant to you saying the man that is behind millions of people getting deleted?

Yeah, really effing cool.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Like, what does that have to do with anything?

It's moving the goal post.

Yeah, it is.

Go ahead.

In America has to say about Adolf Hit and what do you mean by is very fucking cool?

Because I think he's very fucking a monster.

And that's a.

Clip.

I think he's very a monster.

Do you hear yourself?

Yeah.

I mean, can we all grow up?

I do.

Can we all grow up 12 million?

People.

12 million people, what is very fucking cool about that?

Tell me.

The edits, it's just cool.

The the uniforms, the parades.

The so so you you do you see my point of like he finds that cool.

The kid growing up without his father.

What is he going to find?

He's going to find drill music cool.

He's going to find the most deployment right?

Like so it's like bro, it's.

Just the same you.

Are the thing that you're like when you criticize black people that are coming, You are you are the you consume on the other side of the aisle.

Yeah, you're just not committing the the, the the crime, right?

Nick Fuentes is the white pooch Heisty.

Nick Fuentes is the white pooch Heisty.

It's it's cool as a guy, you look at World War 2 and it's fascinating and it's interesting and it's compelling and it's cool.

And, you know, we're just tired of saying these kinds of things.

We want to talk like real people and give our honest opinions.

And then we and then we literally get an old Jewish guy from England who's going to say, oh, that died Very funny, mate, me mum.

And it's like, shut up.

Like, you know, no one is in favor of so let's just get dad out of the way.

We're not in favor of a Holocaust or genocide.

You think if half your family years ago, you think if half your family had been wiped out.

Yeah, so it's like you're mad that you're suburban white neighborhoods aren't the way you remember them as a kid.

Yeah, you're mad about that.

And like, burn it, burn it all down.

But you you can't understand why folks who actually have Genesis in their lineage would feel a way about this stuff.

Also, I don't know what his actual views are.

He thinks that things don't have to be said.

So he says, of course no one's for a mass deletion.

Of course no one's for a hologram.

And I'm like, I don't know that.

I don't know that of of course you're not for that because everything you said previously led to us thinking, no, you think that there was a place for it or it was cool or it was a moment of history.

And that's like history all around the world anyways.

It just happens.

So then when he says like, of course no one wants this, it's like, well, he doesn't understand that his words are sent are, are actually leading us to think that he does.

He is OK with those things.

And then when he says, of course we don't want it, we're like, I, I actually don't know what you mean by that.

Cause 'cause let's just say he's LARping.

Yeah, let's say he's LARping, Let's say.

Well, you like history or you think you think mustache man is cool.

It's a big difference.

Right, right, right.

Like, like, but, but what I'm saying is like, let's say some of this is hyperbolic and he is the WWE version online of who he really is.

Meaning in real life he hangs with black people, he hangs with Jewish people.

But this is a persona that he's much like the Undertaker from the World Wrestling Federation isn't really the Undertaker in real life.

It's a it's a hyperbolic persona, right?

Yeah, let's just say that is.

I think what he's missing is that his audience doesn't know that this is a a grift.

They don't know that this is a shtick, that the you're they think wrestling is real.

Wow.

That's considering he's this is a shtick.

It may it.

May not that's.

That's the hard part to decipher, right?

And so there's a lot of stuff he trolled on here and said he accepts the real numbers of the holiday and it could be more than that.

And then it could be 10 times more than that.

And all this like just like straight up trolling.

But but he did explain how he might change.

I think this is disingenuous, but I'd be curious.

I'd be curious your thoughts and I'd be curious for my Catholic brothers and sisters this.

Do you guys, do you guys claim him because because he said that he would change if when he said he would change, he said he would be bummed out if someone spoke on some of his rhetoric.

And I I think folks that are connected could potentially work this way up what?

Do you mean if someone spoke on some of his rhetoric?

What does that mean?

He would change.

I was getting.

I was getting there.

OK, He's getting there.

The Pope.

The Pope.

The American Pope.

From Chicago.

So if Vatican 3 passes and it says condemns Nick and condemns Nick, what it says then and and the mustache man then, then he'll be like, all right, I'm on board.

You think the Catholic Church position is women shouldn't be allowed to vote?

I think so, yeah.

No, I'm not positive.

No, it's bullshit.

Oh, it should be.

So this is AL on Pierce's part because Pierce goes well, I disagree with the Catholic Church on women being priests.

And it's just like, oh bro, Pierce, Pierce.

Pierce called a lot of LS.

That's a big.

That's a Big L.

So if you were Pope, that's what you do.

You could be Pope because you're a celibate you.

Could be Pope in.

Yourself.

That's good.

All right, that's good.

He he, he gets one back.

As a Catholic, you're probably aware the Jerusalem Post has recently called on the Pope to openly condemn you.

OK, that that's pretty wild that the the the Jerusalem Post, which is not a small newspaper, it's a pretty big newspaper, called on the Pope to condemn him.

Yeah.

You know, the Jews are great at PR, They're great at marketing.

They've built some of our greatest entertainment industries.

So they know.

They know.

OK, we need to get, we need to go straight to the guy to control his guy.

Yeah.

And we and we got it.

Would it matter to you if the Pope did?

He's an American Pope, obviously.

It would be very disheartening, yes.

Why?

Because he's our spiritual leader.

He's he's the head of the church, he's the vicar of Christ.

So if, if he condemned me, that would be very disheartening.

And it, it would depend upon what he would say exactly.

But yeah, I, I wouldn't like that.

I wouldn't like that.

If he condemned you because you've openly admitted to being on this show, well.

You know this, I would be disappointed if he said that because I think that word rate, it means something different to everybody.

And so I think that's just silly.

I think that's just semantic.

That's the way it is, he said he would be disappointed.

It would be, you know, whatever.

I'm curious if he would repent if the Pope came or would he just become one of those he'd be like.

Martin Luther had a point.

No no, no, he would be one of those Catholic step doesn't believe anything is valid after Vatican 2.

Like if the Pope were to condemn him and be like you're while.

In Mel Gibson had a point.

From my understanding, like this, this Pope is, you know, some, some may say more liberal, which means that he's definitely not with all of this.

He's not with all this stuff on women.

He's not all this stuff on, on, on black folks.

He's not all this stuff.

Right.

So I'd be curious if that happened, would he repent?

Yeah, I, I, I don't know.

But I do know that I suffered through that entire conversation so you wouldn't have to.

And they basically just crashed out on each other for however long that was.

What was that?

2 two hours, 2 hours of crash out after crash out.

I don't think either one of them, in my opinion, persuaded each other's audiences with with with this amount of crashing out.

But I do think that Pierce has given him the best quote UN quote hardball interview I've seen yet.

OK, which I appreciate it.

Like he did way better than Patrick.

But David, he did way better than Russell Brand, who's who's a friend of mine.

He did way better than Dave Smith.

He did.

I think this has been the most I've seen Tucker way better than Tucker Carlson.

I think it's been the best one I've seen yet.

I know Steven Crowder pushed back a little bit, but not to this degree.

But he, Piers Morgan, also played himself as a Catholic.

He played himself repeatedly.

Now, of course, some people will question my motives for talking about this sort of stuff and say, oh, Ruslan, you're a hater.

Why are you hating on the Nick?

And we have our 30 day challenge right now.

If you didn't know, challenging people to just listen to wholesome stuff like Christian content, like Bible preaching, that sort of stuff.

But it's because of comments like this.

I'm going to keep engaging with this sort of stuff.

This is a comment left on yesterday's video regarding the Candace Owens, Erica Kirk situation.

If you haven't seen that, go watch that.

It says Ruslan.

It's important you know that I was on the Candace bandwagon and almost into the fluentest stuff as well.

Because of your content, I've been able to take a step back, focus on reality, and get my life in check.

You've helped nuance my thoughts on Israel, conspiracies and how I should be consuming media as a whole.

Your content is a blessing and I pray for your ability to continue showing people through the truth and helping them focus on the Savior above all else.

God bless brother.

Recently God got the ambition on audiobook.

Looking forward to listening to it.

And of course, what he's referring to is my brand new book, Godly Ambition, which is available over at blessedguy.co or Amazon.

You could pick it a signed copy that really is trying to get people to unlock from the absolute brain rod that's out there.

All of the you're a victim identity politics, the stuff that's being peddled by what I call the woke right up.

This is an antidote to much of that as well as just rich in scripture and rich in practical living.

So the link in the pinned comment pick this up.

And This is why I'm going to keep talking about this sort of stuff.

But yeah, crash out session after crash out session.

And Speaking of crash out session, that leads us to Tim Poole with maybe the crash out of the year on Candace Owens.

So so the woke right has a weird kind of alliance, but not but they all kind of hate each other.

Between Tucker Carlson and Candace Owens and Nick here, Temple completely crashes out on Candace Owens and you know, threats how shot up covered it yesterday.

I can understand where he's coming from, but hide your kids.

I'd write there's quite a bit of profanity in this.

OK.

Candace Owens is a evil scumbag.

She is a degenerate.

She is burning everything down and she's gloating and smiling while she does it.

And you know what?

You've told me she has no security.

OK, so.

This man is crashing out.

Context yesterday we covered that his house property where he's at and he's not like in a city he's in the middle of nowhere was was footage camera three shots fired at his house and he has security.

What is he talking about?

Candace has been walking around without security.

Yeah.

Buddy of mine just saw her in person walking around part of Nashville.

And then she was seen at the Hillbilly Disneyland.

Yeah.

Dollywood.

Dollywood.

Dollywood.

And she had no security there either.

So at least two instances.

Yeah, one first hand, someone told me that I trust I saw her recently with no security.

Yeah, 2A picture posted of a daughter's friend or something like.

That OK, So what do you think that is?

Do you think that her the waves that she makes feel feel really big, but it's it's still in like a pretty niche community of like just like the right.

And so then it's not really making waves and so that she can walk, walk around and it's all Peaches in cream for her or like how is she able to have like such massive attention and walk around with without any security?

I think she either doesn't really have a the threats she claims she has.

Yeah, or she is psychotic and wants to be a martyr.

That's dark.

Like look at how Charlie Kirk was immortalized.

Like I'll forever be an icon, a legend if it happens to like it's one of those two things.

I, I, I don't, I don't know if there's a third option.

If she's again, I got, we got, we got 2 instances with no security or minimal security.

If that's true, that's, that's, that's very alarming.

Like just as a dude online, I'm like, I'm concerned for your safety if you're really out here with no security.

He's angry because he's actually dealing with.

Real situations she has a deal with this we have to deal with.

She's a piece of she's making everyone else suffer and all of these conservatives out there that send me these messages have no balls to call her out More and more people have started doing it.

They send me these fucking.

Messages.

Good.

Hey, Tim.

Tim.

Tim.

Tim.

Tim.

Tim.

I've been consistent.

My brother.

We've been consistent of calling these shenanigans out.

Not just with her, with Tucker Carlson, with Nick, with her specifically immediately after.

I mean, our first video went up really early with calling her out.

So I, I think I, I may have been the most consistent person on this.

Maybe they don't consider me in the conservative sphere because we primarily do Christian concept.

But yeah, I'd say pretty, pretty consistent.

For you, Tim.

Good for you, Tim.

I wasn't the first person to do it.

I'm not going to take credit for that.

But don't DM me like I did something for you as you cower.

As you fucking cower, scared that she'll put you on her thumbnail and claim you benefited from Charlie Kurt's assassination.

What?

She's doing to me right?

Yeah, that's gross.

That's so disgusting.

No one's benefited more monetarily than Candace Owens.

Oh.

There it is.

There it is.

That's true.

Yeah, because and I say that as a matter of we know what what CPMS are we, we can look at her numbers just just the front facing numbers on YouTube in terms of what she's getting not counting super chats and then we know approximately for a brand integration.

Yeah, what they're getting.

So there's brands.

Standing behind her contents though brands.

Don't give a crap.

Brands don't give a crap.

Remember when we first started, it was like brands were really weird to go near anything controversial.

Now it's like they don't give a crap.

Yeah, they're like, sure.

And she has a lot of brand integrations and stuff.

No one's benefited more than her.

Yes, financially.

Yes, So it's crazy when she says everybody else is benefiting and it's like I'm.

Sure, I'm done with these people.

She has security, just not on the level of you.

Oh yeah, the one fat guy you mentioned with no wall and no barrier in a suburban neighbor with neighbors shouldn't give 2.

No one's at her.

She's lying.

About Is she really in like a suburban neighborhood, like in a track home?

Like like a straight like Tennessee track home vibe.

That's.

Crazy dog.

That's wild.

Yeah, that's super crazy.

You told me no fences.

You know how all their houses have got no fences there?

You went to her house and she's got a four foot wall and one fat guy and she doesn't give a shit security.

Meanwhile, I get bullets fired at my property and I have to go live in the middle of nowhere and I got strangers coming up to my house in in Maryland breaking in.

I got people showing up and beating, beating up the residence and who trying to live there.

How the even supposed to sell this property?

And you know, it's it's all lies, it's all hypocrisy and it is for the purpose of making money.

And she does not live the way other people live.

And she claims she likes Charlie, she loved Charlie, and she is burning everything down that he built because she is evil.

So crash out of the year, I don't know.

But I do know that you need a little scripture in you, right?

And when you hear something that heavy, perfect time to segue into our daily proverb.

Proverbs Chapter 9, verse 7 says whoever corrects A mocker invites insults.

Whoever rebukes the wicked incurs abuse.

Do not rebuke mockers or they will hate you.

Rebuke the wise and they will love you.

Instruct the wise and they will be wiser still.

Teach the righteous and they will add to their learning.

Now, this is exactly this is exactly what it's like dealing with any it's sort of correction, clarification on Candace Owens or her fans is you experience this you you experience insults, you experience abuse, you experience attacks and but when you correct someone that is wise, they will be wiser still.

You teach the righteous and they will add to their learning.

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.

For through wisdom your days will be many and years will be added to your life.

It's interesting there's a correlation between wisdom and days being added to your life.

Now in a moment, we're going to look at someone that actually received correction and has issued a correction on a video he made last week that I engaged with in our trusty logo software.

I love being able to look up stuff like fear in the original Hebrew and I can hit study.

And I discovered the word fear here means you're, ah, to fear, to reverence fear, holy fear, right?

And so it's super dope because you see the other ways the word is translated in the NIV Revere reverence greatly terrified, right?

And so this isn't like a fear of a horror movie when this is talking about fear of the Lord is the beginning of of wisdom.

This is a reverence for God that every single one of us should have and awesomeness.

That's interesting, right?

And then you can go down and see every other time that word is used, right?

We see used all throughout the Old Testament.

And so anyway, Logos free 60 day trial.

You go to logos.com, Ruslan, or hit the link and the pin comment.

This used to cost hundreds if not thousands of dollars.

And now Logos is offering their software.

There's an app version of this that I use on my phone all the time.

I'm on the web browser free 60 day trial and then after that I think it's like 12 bucks a month.

So a great way to invest into yourself with regards to your own spiritual development.

Really trending the other direction until Charlie Kirk was murdered.

And this is the point, isn't it?

The most effective political assassination in history, and thanks to the likes of evolved Candace Owens, she has turned Turning Point into the perpetrators of the crime that was against them.

I don't get paid by any of these people.

I'm not on good terms necessarily with Turning Point USA.

They didn't invite me to their stupid event.

I don't want to go.

I don't want to go.

They invited me back after I started criticizing kids.

I'm not going to your event.

I'm over all of this.

Shit, that's kind of funny by the way, if Turning Point did that if they invite invited him after the fact.

After he, you know, dunked on Candace Allen, it's like, oh, you're one of us.

He's like, no, I don't care much.

For the For the record, I've never done a Turning Point event, but they did invite me to do Turning Point faith at the event Donald Trump showed up to.

I did not go and I probably will do something returning point faith next year, but it it has nothing to do with my content.

The last thing that I need to deal with is a bunch of cowards and conservative media refusing to stand up to her.

Megyn Kelly, come on.

I appreciate the kind words, but come on.

Such pathetic bullshit.

You know, and I get people saying, Tim, you know, thank you so much for talking about.

I don't care.

I'm not doing a favor for anybody.

I'm not doing this to benefit anybody.

Nobody's paying me.

There's no fucking right.

Yeah, I think people misunderstand it.

Like calling out Candace Owens, especially right now, or Tucker Carlson or Nick Flint says is at the detriment of views as subscribers, so on and so forth.

Like this is not, this is not good for the channels.

It's not good for ratings because it because there's a huge chunk of both Christians and conservatives that have sipped the Kool-aid.

Yeah, yeah.

Not totally.

There's no fucking Israel.

There's just me sticking my neck out and then risking dying for what a bunch of cowards that don't want to stand up to protect themselves.

People like Candace Owens, I couldn't believe that she put you in the in the thumbnail of of her, her her piece today.

I'm done.

The idea that she didn't that you had some benefit or that you benefit somehow like it.

She benefited.

I think she's a fed and I think she killed Charlie.

No one benefited more than her.

He's right.

He's right about that.

But that was that was that was a crazy full crash out, full crash out, full crash out mode.

And so full crash out mode, possibly crash out of the year.

I think an appropriate crash out.

I wouldn't, you know, stand by all the claims he made in that.

But I do I, I, I am praying for Tim in terms of all the stuff he's going through because that stuff is is crazy people coming to your house like that.

That's wild stuff.

And especially and I don't know why she hasn't addressed it.

I wonder if she will address the allegation that she's just out here with two hired assassins at $1.5 million.

She's walking around with doing no, no, no security or minimal security.

Why are you out in public?

If that that's real, why are you out in public?

I wonder if she'll address that or she'll just not address it and ignore it, wave it off.

I'll be curious.

OK, so after Tim had that epic crash out of the year, one of the personalities on there, Shane Cashman, posted this and he said this.

This is really interesting.

He said there was a demonic presence IRL last night God told me to read scripture and so he seems.

I don't think he's a regular, forgive me, like you guys are like Tim cast fans.

It says host of the invented worldwide.

So this is Shane and he just ends up just reading scripture over Tim and whoever the other guest was that was into numerology and not a not a Christian.

Tim's not a Christian either, but I think he's a bit more open to it.

So go ahead and play this.

For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but a power and love and a sound mind.

From Second Timothy 17 a lot.

Wow, Shane, that was powerful.

Thanks for saying that.

I feel like Chain has been quiet and I'm curious your thoughts on not just to say like, hey, everything's going we're talking about, but just like where we're going.

I just feel compelled to say rejoice in the Lord always.

Again, I will say rejoice is like you're gently being known to all men, Lord, anxious for nothing but.

He's like, like, what do you think about the things we're talking about?

He's like, so I just want to say and then he goes, right, yes.

No, I love it.

I love it because clearly Tim is affected by this.

Clearly he's fired up.

He, you know, this stuff is this is crazy stuff like his life is in danger.

And so what's one of the best things you can do, even if you're not a Christian?

It's just like, man, like read the scriptures over yourself.

Come on, somebody.

And everything by prayer and supplication with Thanksgiving.

Let your requests be made known to God and the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding and will guard your hearts and minds through Christ.

Jesus, come on.

I think personally, and again, I'm not trying to offend anyone, but I think anyone who thinks they have a relationship with God has an extremely huge ego.

OK, who?

Who is this sunglasses inside guy?

Who are you?

With the Baltimore hat, with the.

Baltimore hat and a leather jacket like who are you and and anytime someone says I don't want to offend anyone but anyone that believes in God is an idiot like bro it's.

Like you knew exactly what you were doing.

You, you look like, you look like you got rejected from one of the mafia families and decided to go the influencer out.

Like cut it out.

We're all, I think we're all specs of Santa, the real prime creator, and the only time he's going to deal with us is when we pass on to the next lifetime.

Then he judges us.

We all will be judged.

I don't see any point of the worship or any of this.

I will say then submit yourselves to therefore to God, Resist the devil and he will flee from you, James.

Come on, Shane.

I mean, listen, I'm not.

I will say then and give no opportunity to the.

Devil.

Come on, Shane.

He's like, well I would say resist the devil in.

27.

I mean, listen, you can read a book that's 2.

Thousand, I will say, whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sitting from the beginning.

The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.

1 John, 3 brother.

For 2000 years people thought Jesus was coming back and he still isn't there.

So what does that make all those people who died waiting for him?

I will say, behold, I have given you authority to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall hurt you.

Behold the tail horse.

And they keep saying he's coming back.

So I mean.

Sound awfully quiet over there as our residents outside of the box thinker what do you think of numerology I.

Think, be sober minded, be watchful.

You.

Have to say the devil prowls around like a rolling lion seeking someone to devour.

Resist him firming your faith, knowing that the same kinds of suffering are being experienced by your brotherhood throughout the world.

1.

Peter, 589.

Shane has wrapped him.

He's he's.

Punting.

He's punting his podcast responsibilities and saying you guys are getting scripture.

Well, I mean, listen, as, as as passionate as Tim was in that crash out, I I actually think this is appropriate.

Like, I think it's like, man, like emotions are high.

You, you just called Candace Owens every name in the book and you had your house shot up.

Like, yeah.

Like what?

What, what, what, what, what else do you want to talk about?

Like scripture, you know that's.

Yourself in the armor of the Lord tonight.

That sounded nice.

That's.

Legit.

Actually, I don't know.

I mean we have a whole bunch of people questioning mirology but they're willing to believe the Bible and Quran with no evidence.

So it is with no evidence.

Is never sat, has never sat with an apologetic for longer than 4 seconds.

No evidence.

They wouldn't even consider themselves Christian like I don't.

I got one more thing to add before I go.

So I say, humble yourselves, therefore under the mighty hand of God, so that at the proper time He may exalt you, and I'm praying for you.

Please don't pray, because when you pray, you become pray.

Thank you.

I will.

Despite that, I will pray for you, Sir.

Thank you very.

Much I'll see you all I do not accept.

Your prayers.

But thank you.

Wow, that's a.

Numerology, astrology, but it doesn't seem like anyone wants to push back on religion.

You don't sound how that works.

You don't sound half as ridiculous.

I see.

Well, but like you.

Don't sound how that works.

You don't sound half as ridiculous.

I see.

Well, but like you.

Don't sound how that works.

You don't sound half as ridiculous.

I see well, but.

Like really, they said that you don't sound half as ridiculous for reading scripture over.

There, they're just now that he's gone and this guy's crashing out on on the Bible.

Now everyone's entire.

Well, now he's all, he's all like, you know, he's trying to feel comfortable, yeah.

I mean, listen, Gabby moving Tim Cass crashing out and there's someone there read scripture over him and encourage him and all that sort of stuff.

But again, if we go back to our daily proverb for the day, like I really do believe the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.

For through wisdom, your days would be many in your years would be added to your life.

If you are wise, your wisdom will reward you.

If you are a mocker, you alone will suffer, right?

And so the dude mocking the faith, mocking the scriptures, mocking all these things, and then comparing it to numerology, there's no evidence for the resurrection.

There's no evidence for for God.

There's no evidence for the Bible being reliable.

And it's like, bro, there is.

And the mocking will lead you to suffer.

It will lead you to suffer.

And so I, I'm pumped on shame taking a stand like that.

I, I don't know if there is an alternative route when you have what he's going through.

And I don't think that was a troll.

I don't think he was like trying to egg him on.

I think I think this is how you maneuver in these sorts of situations.

Yeah, yeah, I like it.

It feels like he kind of checked out of the, he checked out of the, like, personal route where it's like, oh, I'm, I just went straight to the spiritual and I was like, you know what?

I think there's something going on here.

And if everyone thinks I'm a little weird, a little goofy, I'm gonna yeah.

Be.

Goofy for the Lord?

Yeah, I'm gonna just be goofy for the Lord because I feel like it might have a little more power than than what people might think about.

Me right, right this.

Is a gangster.

Yeah, I mean we see this in First Corinthians chapter one, verse 25.

It says for the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strengths.

Brothers and sisters, think of what you were when you were called.

Not many of you were wise by human standards.

Not many were influential or not many were no were of normal birth.

But God who chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise.

God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong.

God chose the lowly things of this world and the despise things and the things that are not to full to nullify the things that are so that no one may boast before him.

It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus who has become for us wisdom from God.

That is our righteousness, holiness and redemption.

So yeah, there there is a layer of like the things that the world views as wise are are actually inverted in the Kingdom that that and the foolishness that the world sees is actually the wisdom of God.

And the The funny thing is, once people live this out long enough, they'll actually generally start to see it.

Like the scales will fall from their eyes and they may not fully be there on the resurrection, but they'll go, there's something to living by the ways of Scripture, right?

Even though it seems counterintuitive, but but yeah, Jesus told us like we are in an upside down Kingdom.

We are in an upside down Kingdom where the first shall be last, where the the greatest is the really the greatest servant of all, right.

And it makes sense.

So I think even though they probably found some of that obnoxious or whatever, I think Shane actually served them by reading scripture over them like that.

It's fire.

I love it.

And Speaking of growing in wisdom and being willing to take correction like we saw in the daily proverb, I want to highlight Jonathan Allen Wright.

Now last week he put out a video going over the most controversial artist in in Christian music, which is force Frank.

And the video well done, like very well executed.

And he even acknowledges that he was trying to compile all the questions around Force Frank while not realizing that many of the questions around Forrest Frank are bad faith questions.

And he's issued this video.

What I got wrong about Forrest Frank.

He basically says that here in like this compilation of all the questions in a chatter around Forrest, that some of the questions are sometimes bad faith questions.

OK.

Documentary where I don't really answer much of my own questions, or I don't answer much of other people's questions as much as I just present what the conversations are around them and that.

Great content strategy approach, by the way.

Yeah, yeah.

So like the Johnny Harris investigative journalism.

Great approach.

Yeah, take what people are already talking about.

Compile it without any real answers.

So then it just creates a central hub for all of the Internet chatter where everyone can unify and then go viral.

Yes, very good.

And then he makes this point right after that point.

It is a good and a bad thing because I've seen like so many comments on all sides of this.

I saw a comment where someone was like 4 should be in jail and I was like what?

No, this is not like this is not what I meant from this video.

I simply was using Forrest and like his marketing and his stuff to try to have like a broader conversation around how do we market as Christians.

I mean I think about this all the time having a YouTube channel and my own music.

I found it interesting just how dual sided this whole thing was.

And part of that could be that a lot of the questions we see online are like not in good faith and some are in good faith.

But most of the time when you get online, questions that people ask are are negative.

And so this video.

And this is and this is true and the reason why the force video bugged me, not that he bugged me because he did what he was supposed to do as a as a YouTube.

He crushed it.

And, and, and I've given Jonathan his flowers privately and publicly when you compile the like if someone did that same video about me, Ruslan charged this much for their summit.

And then you leave out that like we actually lost thirty, $40,000.

On the summit.

Ruslan said this about monetizing your audience and you leave out that that was seven years ago.

And I'm not saying he did this.

I'm saying that this is the approach of like just asking questions is like all of these same questions can be asked about me in a very and often times have been.

And when there's legitimate sincere answers provided for the questions, those get left out or omitted and you go, well, not a good faith conversation at that point.

Yeah, right.

So perhaps the Jonathan for kind of clarifying this and cleaning it up.

So this part is where he gets into surfaces.

There's a lot of claims made in the video.

One of the things that kind of are insinuated about Forrest is that because Once Upon a time surfaces, the group he was in was signed to 10K project that therefore there's a magic button that the record labels can press.

I see.

OK.

And anyone that's dealt with a record label, I've dealt with Interscope.

There's no magic button.

No.

OK, you got to have the.

Record gamblers.

They're gamblers, they're trying to hedge their bets and they're trying to really grab as much of the market share as possible because they're they're hedging their bets.

So this point came out about force being on surfaces.

And he clarifies something in, in, in this section.

And we'll kind of look through the rest of the video because yeah, he, he did a great job on this.

For me too, because, you know, Surfaces was, I mean super massive and I got a lot of comments from people that like closely followed surfaces the whole time.

And I even had some information come forward where they pointed out that the last album that Forest was on with Surfaces.

I don't know that it flopped, but it just didn't do well.

And I even checked behind people to see that.

And so I guess what's?

Interesting.

So, So what he's talking about is that after Forest blew up, Yeah, after he blew up, he did another record with Surfaces.

OK, that record did not perform as well as.

He sold his.

Stuff he sold his stuff, that record, he gave the same push to it, all the same marketing stuff, all the same skits, all the same tactics, the same things.

It did not blow up.

So this idea that like, Forest is only successful, and I saw this on my Commons because it's cheap marketing, Forest is only successful because there's a magic button that the label presses or because this agency was hired.

It's like, no, all the same things were applied for another Services album that came out in 2024 after Forest was already booming as a Christian artist.

That's crazy.

And it didn't perform like Forest solo stuff.

Hello.

Is like, you look at the career of surfaces at 1st and you're like, Oh my goodness, all the money is working.

And like all this stuff is happening.

But truthfully, even when you do a follow up album and it's still the same iteration of the group, it doesn't necessarily mean it's like a magic button.

And that's true.

Like, I mean, there are so many artists that people pour money into and they just don't take off.

Next one says, I like your video, but Forrest might not own his label.

Yeah.

This is another piece of clarity I got after the fact from people that work in the industry.

So from best I can gather.

Force not only example why is that significant because the claim was or or the insinuation was Forrest owns his label submitted himself to the dove awards only to then bail out on the devil awards the day off and making everybody look bad and then making himself look high and mighty.

Why would you submit yourself to the devil awards and then back out and it's like well, first of all, maybe he just changed his mind.

He was already uncomfortable winning the previous year.

Second of all, the label submitted him to the double Wards and the the label, he shared the story of putting out the record no longer bound as a solo artist, thinking he was no longer under contract.

We covered this on the channel and then that that then getting his entire back catalog cannibalized by Warner for like 86 songs or 87 songs, something crazy.

And so the label is who submitted him to the Devil Wards, not Forest, only to bail.

Yeah, go ahead.

Forest owns his label, but there is maybe like an imprint of it in some way and connected across all of this stuff that is probably just too complicated.

For me to yeah, I haven't asked about the the label stuff.

I don't know.

But I do know that you know, Forest.

Forest is by him maneuvering by himself, yes, right.

But there is a contract studio.

Doesn't even have a chair.

He's a studio.

Don't gotta change.

He just.

Sits on the ground.

Man, he's just in an empty room.

No one's invited, not even him.

It's just him and the Lord.

As a fact, go ahead and.

Two, But this does bring up that I had a band that reached out and they were like, hey, our music actually did get submitted to the Devil Wards without us knowing.

And it was via like management or something because they're also independent.

And so this is a very likely chance that Forrest didn't submit his own music to the Devil Wards, but instead it was submitted for him.

This one says I was.

At the GCU Unite event, Force did a great job and gave a message that many people needed to hear.

This is great because I actually kept going and kind of like talking to people that were actually at or involved with GCU Unite.

And more people actually came to me after the video came out because again, I didn't know the volume that this video was going to do, but it put me in contact with a lot of really interesting.

People.

Yeah, and this was towards the end of his video.

He flashed four straight based on whatever public access information.

The way rates look is that your rate is whatever you can generate via hard tickets plus some gotcha.

Forest is now doing arenas.

So you take 10,000 people, you times that 3540 bucks a ticket you got 400, five, $100,000 in revenue generated through tickets.

What is Forest take on that probably 200 to $300,000 that is what is value is in the marketplace.

And so then it says his speaking rate or his live rate IS300K.

It's it's 200K according to whatever agency pulled up now that now he it, it looks like he went to GCU winged this talk and just grabbed the the 200K and bounced right when in reality that's not what happened.

I'm not I'm not going to say what did happen, but that's not what happened.

And and Forrest, if how he speaks is I come into a room, I feel the room out.

I feel the needs of the students, Jordan Peterson or or Gary Vee.

And then based on what I feel like the the problem and the tension in the room is I'm going to speak into that.

And that's the way he decided that that's the way he speaks.

That's that's his approach to speaking.

Not everybody is going to have slides and a keynote presentation, right?

So props again, props to Jonathan Allen Wright for kind of clearing some of this up.

Go ahead.

So what appears to be the case is that this was not something that Forrest had planned to do and that it was like him doing a favor.

And so that does change the connotation of this, right, involving him getting paid.

It does change the connotation of, oh, is, is Force not going to plan and not going to write a sermon?

And I can't imagine a bigger nightmare than getting thrown in front of 10,000 people and be like, oh, guess I got to speak now.

That's a little bit how I feel right now because I didn't know so many people were going to watch this video.

So again, in the spirit of trying to be fair and honest, it does appear that Force did not take money and did not know the extent at what he was going to do there.

But I did get a message from some people saying that he discussed self harm and things like that and that it was super helpful for a lot of people there.

So that's pretty cool.

This was even discussed on a Ruslan KD video.

You know, he put out a reaction video to my video and I watched it and I thought, oh man, I didn't realize people were maybe going to take my tone this way or like take the video this way where it seemed like I just absolutely hated forest or something.

And he made two really solid points in his video that I had not considered or had missed.

One being that he clarified a little bit of the timeline with Corey and with Forest.

Forest had filmed and done the video but was unsure of like if he was going to post it or not.

And then ended up that Corey and him ended up in a conversation and Forest said, well, I actually had already made a response to thinking about posting it.

I may not I, I believe I've got that right.

The other thing that he brought up that I thought was.

Really good and and for the record, because because people just like, just don't understand how time works.

OK.

Forest feels hurt by Corey Forest shoots a response to Corey in all the videos Friday.

Has it edited?

Has it edited?

It's done and.

Then he's like.

Saturday, Saturday they talk.

Yes, Corey goes, you should still put that video out.

They squashed it, but Corey goes you should still put that video out.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Forest releases the video on Monday.

Corey responds on Tuesday, not being clear that they had already talked, but takes him up on the offer to be on the song.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Forest then clarifies all of this Wednesday.

All people saw was all this whole thing was staged.

And it's like, no, no, no, the video was shot.

They talked, Forest told you, they talked.

And you guys still get the freaking timeline wrong.

Hello.

And they came on the pod and explained all this, like repeatedly answer this question.

So again, props to John Jonathan Ellenwright for clarifying this.

I think that because then it looks deceptive.

It looks like they just oh, how long has this song been cooking?

How long?

No, no, it or shot a video where he wrote the song.

He invites Corey on the song.

Someone connects them via text the next day.

He says, hey, Corey apologizes.

Forest says, hey, I got this video.

Corey goes put the video out.

I'll respond to the video.

And then and then Forest said all this on the Wednesday video.

So that's the that's the that's the frustrating part.

But again, props him for clarifying that.

It was a good call out was there is a free tier on the treehouse group that I wasn't aware of.

I've totally missed that Somehow I ended up paying to get into the treehouse.

Yeah, you're 1.

He was one of like 10 people still paying for for Treehouse.

That's 2.

So that's a.

Little So Treehouse is like Patreon.

Yeah and and and again, why, why, why am I sorry?

Because this has happened to us.

Ruslan has 10,000 Patreon members.

They're printing money over that.

It's like we're really not like, I'm really like real time guys.

I'm really trying to scrape up money to like upgrade our cameras, like in real time, like for real.

So it's like we're not printing money over here.

And so when you see 10,000 Patreon and you go to 10,000 Patreon, the cheapest year is $7.00.

That means that they're making $70,000 a month.

No, we're not.

No, we're not.

We're not making 10% of that.

Incredible.

OK.

We're not cut it out off of Patreon.

We're not.

So I've seen this.

So so I saw it and I was like, oh, this is a, this is a old free tier, right?

Then the 8000 people are free.

Yeah.

And so I just logged in on a free account and saw right.

And then I and then I call Forrest, hey, man, blah, blah, blah.

And he's like, oh, bro, I forgot to take that down.

Yeah, that's just like a couple of people in there that still pass is let me see how much it's like, oh man, they sent me 300 bucks.

Like I forgot to cancel it.

Yeah, yeah.

And you get this stuff has happened to me.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So that like, why am I passionate?

And, and by the way, people are like, bro, you're defending for.

It's like, yeah, I defend my friends.

Yeah.

When they're taken out of context, when they're misrepresented.

I've done this consistently.

I did this for Dallas Jenkins.

I did this for Wes Huff.

Come on.

I've done this for Lecrae.

When everyone was calling Lecrae A Marxist, I was like, no, he's not.

Lecrae is a capitalist, right?

This is like 2021 era.

So I do this for my friends when I feel like that much represent.

That's what good friends do.

Come on.

Right.

Especially when you make daily content like yeah, I got to talk about some today.

Guess we talk about this, right?

So anyway, go ahead.

Disappointing, but in that free tier, you don't get access to some of the higher stuff like albums or walkthroughs, things like that.

It's very similar to Patreon.

I thought it was a good call out and in fact, a lot of people were really mad in my comments or they were mad in Ruslan's comments and things like that.

That wasn't to me like a bad call out.

I'm glad that he brought that forward.

In fact, I actually ended up connecting with Ruslan after the video came out and after his reaction came out, we had a really good conversation and it was one of those things were like I told him I didn't want my tone to come across like this.

Super.

I've got you a kind of thing going on.

But when I ask questions and don't answer them, it kind of allows people to come up with their own opinions.

And for Ruslan, it's like he's defending his friend.

I understand.

When we had our conversation I told him this wasn't supposed to be a hit piece and he actually adjusted his title.

I did change my title.

The title was, is this hit piece on Forrest Frank Fair or something like that?

I, I, I changed the title to just responding to whatever the title of this video was because I knew his heart wasn't a hit piece.

I said it wasn't your tone.

It was the, the sequence of questions.

And some of the questions were bad faith.

Yeah, yeah.

Stood better where my heart was with this.

We'll do one more serious comment and then we'll get to some fun ones.

This one says, I don't know, man, maybe I missed it, but I thought it was obvious it was simply an advertisement for the song.

Good day.

I never thought it was meant to be him making it on the spot.

And you got several replies and people thumbs ING this up.

Yeah, that's what makes it so difficult with marketing.

You look at this and someone is like, I understand this is a skit.

I saw it as nothing else other than that and that person, maybe the majority, and then you have people all the way on the other side that like don't understand that concept and what that.

Yeah.

So, so this is the tricky part about social media, right?

Is like, how many people understand that when someone says he gave me 3 words, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And you give them 3 words and then they turn into a song.

Like, that's not always like the song might have been done, like when when when when Connor.

You mean Connor Price isn't making a song with a clone version of?

Himself.

Yeah, yeah.

When Connor Price spins the globe.

Oh yeah, That's funny, actually, that's really funny when there's multiple Connor Prices or when.

But when Connor spins the globe and then picks a random spot, like you guys understand that that's not in sequence.

Like the song was probably already done and then he did that, right?

Like, and I'm and I'm not speaking that to certainty, but like, these are skits.

These are trends on TikTok.

And so I thought we all knew this.

Like I thought we all knew that this is social media and the key phrase media.

And this should be the least egregious thing considering there's AI videos that are 100% fake.

It's like OK artists making some sort of storyline to roll out a song is like, not that insane.

OK, let's let's finish this out.

Means is like anybody trying to market or anybody trying to make anything is trying to hit a moving target.

I think as a general rule, when we go on the Internet and we see things from artists or we see things from anybody, Youtubers, whoever, take it with a grain of salt that it may be marketing and that it may just be something taking advantage of the algorithm and people's convictions can fall all over the map there.

But the truth is, everyone's heart is also different.

My heart on how I'm going to feel about marketing is going to be completely different than maybe how Forrest feels about it.

So in other words, we can give some grace where grace is due and understand that people are very different.

Not only are people different, but people change and they grow.

I know that even just by doing this video, I've grown.

I've learned things that I want to do better.

And I know that Forrest is going through that same process.

I know that everybody watching this video is going through that same process.

And so we need to be willing not to just say, oh, like I'm burning Forrest albums or oh, I'm unsubscribing from Jonathan.

We hate him.

All of us change and all of us handle life a little bit differently.

And God works in us in all completely different ways at times.

Young artists are generally not expected to be the pinnacles of consistency and maturity until they become famous.

Then, as if musical ability is a substitute for biblical qualifications and discipleship, we treat them as pastors, prophets, or worse yet, idols.

We need to allow people to be part of the body of Christ that they were equipped to be in all force.

Frank has to be, to me, is an imperfect entertainer.

Everything else is between him and God and his local church.

There's a lot of like about this comment.

In fact, it kind of speaks to one of the things that I felt burdened by as I was making the video, which was the immense pressure that Forrest is under.

Even the question at the end of my video is Forest good for CCMI?

Left it open-ended because truthfully, everybody already has such a big opinion about it.

My opinion is Forest is good for CCM whether you want him to be or not.

There's so many people that are talking about his music.

They're talking about conversations, they're going to shows even if they're not a fan of his music, they're having these conversations because of Forest.

But this comment is right.

You know, there's all of this pressure that suddenly appears when a person becomes famous, whether they want it or not.

It comes with the deal.

And at the same in time, what happens with Forrest internally and how Forrest lives his life and his family is LED, like all of this stuff is ultimately between him and God and under the accountability of his local church.

Definitely not a.

YouTube Amen.

OK, so, so, so, so, so, so, so spot on.

And the reason why I have a different vantage point is because I know forced pastors, I know the church he currently goes to.

I know his pastor at the church he currently goes to and have other mutual friends.

So I have a different vantage point.

I think my, my macro conversation is I understand why people feel burnt by Christian celebrities.

I understand that when you think about a Michael Tate or whoever, you think about these bands that they play Christian things and then they're really getting drunk or whatever.

I understand the celebrity password thing and and the skepticism and the suspicion about it.

The issue is I think people see Forrest and almost think like this can't be real.

This is too good to be true because of the jadedness.

And the reality is no force really is this guy all the time.

And this is my heart and and and I maybe I'm idealistic in this sense.

And there was one other thing that that that Jonathan left out, which is the force back being healed in two weeks.

We looked up the typical recovery for that minimal of six weeks to 12 weeks, right.

And so he and his videos had some people say that, you know, that could have happened naturally.

No, couldn't have, right?

Like like God did something.

OK, so 6 to 12 weeks is there.

So anyway, I don't mean to harp on that.

Jesus said the world will know where his disciples by how we love one another.

OK, in first Corinthians 13 we see a description of what love is.

First Corinthians 13 verse 4.

Many of us know as pastors love is patient, love is kind.

It is not envy, it is not boast, it is not proud, it is not dishonor, it is not self seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record wrongs.

Love does not delight in evil, but rejoices with the truth.

It always protects, always trust, always hopes, always perseveres.

Love never fails.

But where there are prophecies they will cease.

So this description of love, right?

And Jesus said you will know, the world will know that we're his disciples by how we love one another.

The new King James says love suffers long and is kind.

Love does not envy.

Love does not parade itself.

It is not puffed up, does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil, does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth, bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

When I read that definition of love and then I see how skeptical and suspicious people are to a Forest Frank, 2 successful Christians to myself, constantly misrepresenting clips that are old, constantly misrepresenting or fighting about the prices of the merch, knowing they're going well.

You're not going to walk into a mall and get a shirt for any less than what we sell our shirts for, what we sell our hoodies for.

It does.

To me, it does not reflect that love believes all things and hopes all things.

And so I think it's this hyper skepticism and hyper suspicious nature, which I understand.

But but here's the truth, my opinion, whether it's the pastors or whether it's the artists, I believe that the new guard that's rising up, the new voices that are rising up.

And Forrest is an outsider.

Like he doesn't come from Christian music.

As as Jonathan point out, there's no nepotism that these people are actually who they portrayed themselves to be that these people actually love Jesus all the way.

And I want to see more people to say before I'm going to be critical and fall into the biggest bad fallacy or fall into the hyper skepticism or fall into these things that we would first slow down and go, wait a minute.

Let me let me actually believe the best about forest.

If I were to start not with a deficit view of like, oh, no one can become that successful without compromising.

Then we could become that successful without selling out.

Then we could become that successful without a blood oath and the Illuminati being involved, right, If we, if we just suppress that for a moment and go, let me see this, this, this forest portray himself to the to the congruent nature that he has been public.

And I would say, yes, he has.

And I would say there's constantly him referencing pastors and other people in his life that he goes to for wise counsel, posting scripture and there's fruit.

So maybe we shouldn't start with a deficit view of of force just because he's successful.

Maybe we should start with no, maybe he really is telling the truth.

And then if there's something that looks suspicious, like I don't know about these skits, go, maybe I'm misreading it, right.

And and then there's disputable matters.

There are, Hey, these things can be disputed.

These things are just, but sometimes we will take disputable matters, make them black or white, all or nothing things.

And then, and I'm not going to get too deep into this.

Maybe I'll make other videos when there are people actually sinning against forest, we'll excuse that away and we won't we'll we won't, we won't address that.

We won't confront that, but we'll get into disputable matters.

That's the frustrating part for me as someone that's had a lot of this stuff set my way and it's hundreds if not thousands of videos made about me.

And many of them, the vast majority of them are bad faith asking questions that have already been answered.

Hello.

So those are my thoughts on that.

Big props to Jonathan Allen one time for him.

Super pumped that he put this together.

And yeah, I mean, listen, it takes humility to correct the record, you know?

So.

So props to him.

And Speaking of this idea of the world knowing where the disciples of Jesus about how we love one another, Erica Kirk went and did some press and some different interviews promoting Charlie's new book.

And she talks about all of the criticism, all of the backlash that she's getting and just really has this beautiful moment also about not wanting to finish his book because she knows it would be that those would be the last of his words.

So I wanted to highlight this because I think there's a lot of people, again, that on social media have very bad faith approaches to these sorts of conversations.

They have very bad faith approaches with regards to how you think you know someone because it's a parasocial connection, but but you really don't.

You really don't know any.

You don't know anything about them, right?

So let me play this for you guys.

From everyone and you guys get this too you get the echo chamber you get people analyzing everything about you they think they know everything about you they know nothing about you they see you on TV.

They think, oh, she's this, she's that.

He said this, he said that.

And, and honestly, it's Charlie saying baby ease.

Just stop, stop.

You don't have to answer to every single person that's accusing you of things or saying that you're doing this or grieving a certain way.

Baby, just stop, you know?

Yeah, I mean, she's caught so much backlash for smiling, you know, when she went on Charlie Kirk's show after he passed away or because she smiled at the memorial, whatever.

Like just the weirdest, like psychoanalyzing her.

That has been absolutely gross, Right.

Again, all this gets insinuated that Turning Point was in on it, and Charlie was quote UN quote betrayed by everyone he loved, which is what Kenneth Owens has said.

This sort of stuff is just utterly gross.

So I'm glad that she's speaking out about this.

And.

And yeah, just just just, you know, being vulnerable in this way.

Oh, who you are and who's you are, and I'm here.

I see you.

And if Charlie and I'm taking a page out of his book, if he answered every single critic and didn't stop and put his phone down and breathe and rest with the Lord, he'd get nothing done.

He would not have built Turning Point USA and Turning Point Action.

And I read in your book that when in Charlie's book, when he write, he said at first when Dennis Prager, I guess, played a big role.

He did.

Unbelievably bright.

Yeah.

She then goes on to say this on a different Fox interview.

We're human.

I mean, he's 31 years old, and that's way more profound than I think.

Anything I could say?

He's he again.

He did not just write this book, he lived it.

So when you feel something's.

By the way, the the book is about the, the Jewish discipline of practicing Shabbat.

And they would practice Shabbat, which is like, I think Charlie, I don't, I don't know if he would theologically argue this, but in a practical way, yeah, they would.

They would go Friday sundown to Saturday, turn off their phones, have dinner, enjoy themselves, enjoy each other's company.

So that's what the book is about.

And so, yeah, props, props to her.

I mean, it's only been three months since he's passed.

Props to her for doing all the press for this, you know.

So deeply and you've experienced it and you lived it.

You want to be able to tell other people, look, this will change your life.

I know it might sound simple, but sometimes the best answers are the most simple ones.

It is truth.

And he again, our whole team knew on on days where he didn't get a full Sabbath and did because he just was so locked in.

And he, he just again, was the most incredible man.

But this just took him to a whole new level.

And, and it was in a way where you would look at him and be like, whatever you're doing.

I want to do and he's like here and this is his final message.

This is what I'm trying to express to people.

This is Charlie's last book, so people can write books all about my husband and what he believed and what he said and analyzed his videos.

These are his words, and when you read them, you feel him come to life.

It's.

Powerful.

It is very powerful and it really caused me as I read it again.

I read the whole thing, you know, and.

I'll be honest, I can't read the last few pages.

I'm not there yet.

It's just emotionally, because once this book is done, it's done.

Of course I mean.

Yeah, I mean, her, her saying that she can't finish the book because, you know, when it's done, it's done.

And those, those are his last words.

That definitely, man, that hits.

You know, that hits.

So, yeah, prop star Erica Kirk, just for her resilience, her class and the way she's navigated.

I mean, that the moment at the memorial where she forgives Tyler Robinson, how how powerful is that, right?

I mean this, this is such a great example, in my opinion, of how to represent Jesus when you're grieving, when you're navigating uncertainty with regards to just the rest of your life, right?

And she's seeming to be stepping into this role at turning point very well.

The way she's navigating reminds me of this passage, Psalm 3417 and 18.

It says the righteous cry out and the Lord hears them.

He delivers them from all their troubles.

The Lord is close to the broken hearted and saves those who are crushed in spirit.

Of course we see Jesus saying and the beatitudes, Matthew chapter 5, verse 3.

Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the Kingdom of God.

Blessed are those who mourn for they will be comforted.

And so, yeah, I think we're seeing some of these passages come alive with the way Erica Kirk has navigated this.

And it's it's nothing short of completely inspiring and mesmerizing the way she's navigating this.

And so man prop props to her, props to everybody over turning point and just a good work that they're doing.

And the way she's navigating this with class.

I'm I'm, I'm, I'm astonished.

Something else that's astonishing is seeing families come together and build stuff out, and this video is twofold.

I want to highlight something Wes Huff engaged with regarding Annihilationism and Kirk Cameron.

But before we get into the actual topic, I'm astonished that the Kirk Cameron show has his son as the producer and I don't know how old his son is.

He's old enough to grow a beard.

If you guys don't know who Kirk Cameron is, left behind.

Famous actor from the nineties 2000s now has his own show and they get into the idea of what is hell all about.

Before I reveal to you guys Wes Huff's thing, I just want to acknowledge how awesome it is that like father son are doing a show like this is this is so dope to me that they're doing a show together and this is man, I I, I me and my son, my son's 11.

But we talked about this.

So anyway, I just want to give them props.

But this is kind of what has Kirk Cameron and some hot water regarding the topic of hell and Wes Huff kind of coming to his defense, which is super fire.

So let me, let me play this out.

So, Dad, get down to it.

Yeah.

What's your opinion on this?

So my position as it stands today and again, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, we're the, the beauty of this is that we're always learning and growing, right?

So I'm open to new light if you guys have a position that you can share with me.

So, so go watch this full video.

They basically walk you through the different positions on eternal conscious torment, which is kind of the position many of us hold and the idea of annihilationism.

OK, and they walk through this for quite a while, all the all the verses and then he basically reveals his position on hell.

It will gladly change my mind.

I used to hold the position of conscious eternal torment because that's just what I was taught by people that I love and trust.

I've learned that there are other positions, and a very robust argument can be made for conditionalism or annihilationism, as Edward Fudge posits here.

And it, it fits the character of God in my understanding more than the conscious, the conscious eternal torment position, because it brings in the mercy of God together with the justice of God.

It doesn't leave judgment out.

It is just, but it also fits with the Old Testament picture of the fate of the wicked, which is to be destroyed.

It is to die and it is to perish, not live forever in an eternal barbecue.

And the classic verses that used to get me into eternal torment, you know, the punishment, everlasting punishment, everlasting destruction, fits beautifully with a destruction punishment, judgement that is irreversible and lasts forever.

That is the eternalness of that punishment and that destruction.

So that's where I am today.

How about you, James?

What do you think?

OK, so pretty cool that they're doing this podcast.

That is his position now.

This has caused some people to be really upset with him because they feel like man, this is absolute ersey if you will.

Now interestingly enough, Wes Huff came to his defense.

Before I go through it, I got to let you guys know that Wes Huff is actually going to be at our Blessed God Summit happening March 5th, 6th, and 7th.

Along with myself, along with Ninjas of Butterflies, I show you guys the whole lineup.

Go to blessedgodsummit.com and get your tickets now.

This is going to be an amazing event here in Oceanside, CA at the beautiful Sea Seabird Resort.

W Huff will be doing the keynote on the first night.

We'll have Michael Knowles there, Ninjas and butterflies, my man Gavin Ortland, KB and Southside Rabbi Dr.

Sean McDowell.

God Logic will be debating Jacob Hanson.

On the Trinity, we have Mike Winger, Triple Man Fitness and this is going to be a phenomenal event.

Josh Nadeau, so blessed got summit.com, get your tickets.

For real, don't miss out on this event.

These sorts of conversations happening and helping people understand their worldview, their virtues and the impact they want to make.

My man Justin Early, who's an amazing author and lawyer.

So yeah, this is happening March 5th, 6th and 7th in Oceanside.

Blessed got summit.com get your tickets if you are struggling or if you want to sponsor someone, we have the opportunity to sign up either for a scholarship or to sponsor.

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OK, so let's see how Westhoff defends Kirk Cameron on this.

He says with Kirk Cameron announcing his position on conditionalism, I'm seeing a lot of people attempting to critique I hold to eternal conscious torment and that's where I'm at.

Like I'm basically where Wes is on this, right?

Like eternal conscious torment seems to be with scripture teaches in a New Testament, though I haven't sat with like a really deep robust argument for an annihilationism.

I don't have a problem with annihilationism and I don't have a problem with people who hold this.

I said this when I was on The Avengers episode with George Danko, right?

But he goes on to say, but I do understand the topic of conditional immortality and I have yet to see anyone actually give a rebuttal that shows me they've interacted with the arguments and biblical reasoning from the other side.

To condemn conditionalism, annihilationism as heresy, which to me, when you're saying someone is a heretic, I mean you're saying that they're not a Christian, that that's a serious charge, right?

To condemn annihilation of condition conditionalism as heresy is to say, the John style Edward Fudge FF brews, potentially even Athanasius of Alexandra are all heretics.

This is, with all due respect, ridiculous.

While the position might be unorthodox, it is not heresy.

So something can be unorthodox, but it could also not be heresy.

Right?

Unorthodox meaning like it's it's, it's, it's outside of the the typical view of Christendom throughout, you know, church history.

If you actually want to interact with someone who knows the topic, reach out to my friends Date Chris or Dan Patterson.

Both are solid, fair minded, well educated and articulate holders of conditionalism.

So props to West.

I think the way he explained this is very well said.

Someone then chimed in and said, would you say the same with universal reconciliation, Christian universalism?

He said, no, I wouldn't, right.

And so that's a view that some people say, well, if you're OK with annihilationism, what is that between that and you know, you know, universalism, meaning every all dogs go to heaven, everyone gets to heaven And West says, no, I don't.

Now, what do I think the the deeper issue here?

I think to me, and I'm going to go out on a limb, some people be mad, whether it's George Jenko, whether it's Kirk Cameron.

I think what we're what we're dealing with is, is eternal conscious torment, an essential close handed doctrine of the faith, right?

We know there's the quote that we love to refer back to, which is, right, unity in the essentials and the close handed doctrines, liberty and the non essentials and charity in all things.

And so it seems like some people that are going at Kirk Cameron aren't being the most charitable.

You could disagree without being uncharitable.

You can disagree with that saying, oh, you don't view scripture the same way you don't view Scripture as the way it should be.

You're watering down scripture.

You can disagree without attacking him personally and extend charity, right.

So the question is, is eternal conscious torment a essential Christian doctrine for salvation?

I would say no.

I think there's a diversity of views and for Wes, because I think Wes is viewed as extremely credible on a on on a variety of topics for saying this.

I think it's awesome and I think there's room for conversation.

I would love to see a debate on this.

Honestly, I I have heard the position laid out and when I hear someone Kirk laid out, I go, OK, that makes sense.

I wouldn't agree with all of it, but I understand how someone comes to those conclusions and honestly, I'm just a guy that's trying to go off of the the main things and a plain things in scripture.

When I see Jesus at the end of Matthew 25 verse 46 say they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life, that that seems to me like eternal punishment, like eternal conscious punishment.

Now maybe there's a way you can frame this and say, well, Jesus is talking about conscious torment for the punishment is death.

I don't know, but that's the way I've seen it.

That's the way I've read it that that that that's been my position.

But I'm open to other conversations on this.

I think a debate on this would be interesting, like a solid good faith debate.

And again, props to Wes Huff for defending Kirk Cameron.

Didn't have that on my 2025 bingo card.

So guys, thank you so much for hanging out.

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