If you're listening right now to the Little House fiftieth Anniversary Podcast, we know something about you.

We know that you're obsessed with Little House of the Prairie.

For more than half a century, Little House on the Prairie, the series, and the books have been bright lights for people all over the world who seek out goodness, decency, and human connection.

Here on the Little House fiftieth Anniversary Podcast, we celebrate everything that made Little House so special.

The stories, the characters, the actors, and the messages that have made Little House iconic family television and a.

Perfect counterpoint to a world that feels like it's going off the rails every day.

Where is Michael Landon when we need him most?

I'm your host, Pamela Bob and I'm your Prairie bitch Alice.

At Arngrum, and I'm Dean Butler.

Our hashtag imaginary boyfriend.

Join us for our loving, quirky, and often irreverent conversations about the finest family drama in the history of television.

And the imperfect people who made it that way, presented by our devoted patrons and visit Seami Valley dot com.

Hello again, bonnet heads, how y'all doing it.

I'm Pamela, Bob creator and star.

I'm living on a prairie And you know what a fan wrote in and said, Pamela, maybe it would help you if you also said you're super fan, so people might know who I am.

So I'm a super fan too, and your host.

I am here with our wonderful, beloved prairie bitch.

That's right, Alison Arngram.

Hello Ellison, I'm also here with our hashtag imaginary boyfriend, Dean Butler.

How are you guys?

Good?

It's happening, How are you?

I'm good.

You guys just came back from a big old trip in Indianapolis or not Indianapolis, Indiana.

Yeah, we were in Indiana in Greenfield, a little community is like twenty miles outside of central Indianapolis.

I did regale her the other day with what a hit it was, but you you she did, She didn't all over you.

Yeah, and if you check out our Patreon you'll hear a lot more about it, because Allison went more into detail about how awesome, oh nice, you knew?

Who knew that part of the country was going to be so very crazy?

You know, not not unpredictable at all.

I mean in the sense that once you're there and you see you sort of get the vibe of the whole of the whole area.

It just it does feel so Americana, yea, and that whole part of the country.

You know.

I you know, living in Los Angeles, you know, these are cities that you know your whole life.

But having not spent a huge amount of time traveling through the Midwest, you don't get a sense.

I don't have a sense, a really accurate sense of the distances between these cities, and they're not These cities are not that far apart.

So you can have people coming from not common to have people coming from you know, two three hours away, and it's not a big deal for them to do that.

Now we've had we've got to places where people drive fifteen hours to see us, which is amazing.

But in a situation like this, where I was in Cincinnati last month, just hours away from lots of different really substantial communities, substantial American cities.

So this Indianapolis.

Is another one of those places that's a great.

Place for us to be.

Did you go into because the place in Cincinnati wasn't obviously it was a little bit outside of Cincinnati, I mean greater Cincinnati.

Did you ever go into Cincinnati, like downtown Cincinnati at all?

Did not?

Did not?

You know?

So if you go through, you go through the airport and then you're out wherever you're going.

And the airport's in Kentucky.

So yes, exactly, And that's a spect That is a spectacular airports, as is the airport in Indianapolis.

Two really terrific Midwestern airports.

And that's so funny.

You know, you can disregard or you don't think about that until you go into airports that maybe aren't great.

Well, those are two really terrific airports.

Yeah, Like JFK currently is, I swear JFK is like one of the seven cycles of Hell.

At the moment.

It's just like the worst place.

It's the worst place on the earth, not only because it's all under construction and crazy, but everyone who works there is in misery.

They are living their not best lives, the people that work there, and they're very happy and they're very mean.

Yeah, the early flights, you know, I'm always taking these insanely early flights when you get there early for sort of like traffic is not a thing.

Also, if there's going to be weather on the East coast which is going to throw all the flights off schedule.

That hasn't happened yet, and you have a chance that most of the people working the airport will still be the good mood because it hasn't time to yell at them and be terrible and have the flights canceled.

Everything go to hell at ankort there early there's still oh good morning, because nothing horrible has happened.

And I know it's so particular to JFK because Guardia is not as bad.

New York is not bad, gas improved enormously.

Oh it's crazy, and JFK is all under construction, and who knows, in a few years when that's done, maybe everything will feel nicer than too.

I mean, certainly physically, it will hopefully emotionally it will too, because it's a horrible, horrible emotional place.

But Cincinnati was my old stomping ground, you know, because I went to I went to college there, and that's where Hal's family moved to when they moved to America from UK and I have a couple cousins still there.

So nice Cincy.

Since anyway, what are we doing today, what's happening.

Well, I think, well, let's I think, well, let's first say that we were so grateful to being Indianapolis with Karen.

That was such a treatment.

Alison and I are joined the everywhere, but Karen Grassley was there with us and really really fun to be there with Karen.

I mean, she is she is a flavor of.

I don't know of humanity.

That's she's really fun to be with.

And it's very particular, and you know, and she looks she's very particular about how she does things and how things go, and she's not afraid to say so, not afraid to say what she needs and what she wants, and it's just a I always find it delightful to be with Karen.

She is a go getter.

I mean, when we were setting up, they said, now will she need you know breaks?

I said, yes, it's next.

But I said, for heaven's sakes, two, I said to Calvin there was working with this says, I don't know that I'm going to be copaning these things at eighty two.

I'll be like Katherine McGregor.

I ain't come and say, I said, you know, she yes, she took breaks.

I should think so.

And then came back like a ball of fire and signed and talked to every single person who was in our line.

People were crying because she was like their mother and it was it was true epic.

Yeah, really you know.

And see me when I was interviewing her and I said, you know, when did you know that you were as you know, beloved and revered as you are?

And she went, probably not until I was eighty, And I was like, until you were eighty.

Well, life is a continuing it, you know, you keep learning your whole life.

It's it's amazing that she took that long for her to know.

So I think she's basking in it, you know, she it's well.

Deserved me too.

You know, we're going to be talking about Karen in a very special episode for her.

But why don't you take us into the title and we'll get into it.

Yes, yes, everybody, get ready for the episode of all episodes from the studios of ubn Goo in Burbank, California.

This is a Little House fiftieth anniversary podcast.

Get ready for ma.

Boo boo boo.

This is this is a total cat this is this is a Karen episode.

This is all about all of them.

It sure is so much of that pause barely in it?

Okay, Dean hit it.

What are we talking about today?

All right?

Today's episode season four, Episode four, The Handyman premiere October third, nineteen.

Producer says The Handyman can yes, yes.

And could he ever?

I mean?

Written by Arthur Heineman and directed by our lovely and terrific Bill Claxton.

A guest star, of course, famously in this one was Gil Gerard, and Gil really hadn't arrived yet, but it was all of his everything that made him really special was.

On full display.

He would go on to be Television TV's Buck Rogers, but just a lovely guy.

Allison.

What's the Handyman about?

Well, let's see here are the official synopsis is, although there's so many things going on and weird stuff in the background, but pause kitchen edition with pause kitchen addition to the little house postponed by an urgent lumber hauling job because they need the money.

So you know, Carol in his task keeping the family fed and safe, yet he puts up a tarp.

Do we not remember when they first moved to the house and had a blanket as a door, and there were bears and Native Americans, and this was.

A bad idea.

But okay, enter a whistling Chris Nelson the handyman today by a young and chisel jawed Gil Gerad with seventy swagger and two belt bravado.

Yes, very much so, Caroline for his carpentry skills.

But Hamer has Harriet also practically combusting with scandal.

It's jealous serious, it was a team effort.

Carolyn long meaningful glances and enjoys her fresh baked pies seriously.

And that's a metaphor.

You've Meanwhile, her internal monologue is practically Victorian Roomettes novel must.

Remain initially faithful to Charles.

But have you seen that man fix the roof in the sunlight?

Will Mary be able to save the family from smoldering infidelity?

In the end, the kid has completed, Chris Nelson rides off of the sunset, and the Ingles marriage survives.

It's first and well only near thirst trap.

Mary is okay, mom, Mary is the smart one, and missus Olson and I are so vile that just be sure.

And you guys are particularly you guys are bad.

Yeah, okay, okay, where where do we even Well, here's where we start.

First of all, amazing synopsis.

I don't know if AI did that, but if it did, I'm here for it was a combination.

Commentary.

Thank you robots for that.

Yeah, okay, exactly because it was brilliant.

Okay, we start off, Hey, ho, we're getting a well.

We're getting running water in the house.

We're finally getting an addition to the little house on the prairie.

Pause, building a new kitchen with a well and indoor running water.

How life changing?

Is this going to be life changing?

Yeah?

I mean okay, no, no indoor plumbing for a toilet yet, but yes they will settle for the start with the running water in the in the kitchen, no question.

Yes.

Uh then then I we're in Kisia era.

We go to the post office.

Yes.

How do How do we feel about Kezia As a child, I loved her.

I thought she was adorable.

I enjoyed the storylines as an adult watching of this what what's happening?

What did you guys think of the Kezia storyline?

First of anything, with her mighty badly, I am like, shut up the god, I know she's amazing her mighty badly.

This woman is a brilliant, brilliant actress, huge career later on Maud everything just like she could do no wrong.

But she was a Mary popping around with a spear and a crow on her shoulder for episodes and I don't know why and everything she.

Does and she did.

But it's a theme because you know, we were talking, We're gonna be talking about another episode, you know, the one where missus Olsen is listening to phone calls.

This one has Kezia opening the mail.

There's like a theme with this whole Binski But.

Of course busy bud In's.

Case, it is, in fact, actually a federal offense.

She's just committed a federal fence.

There's the sheriff when you need him, uh, you know.

And in this case, I look at this this from a writing standpoint, this male steaming thing and Doc Baker's two scenes that he has are really the means to get the plot.

Of course, yeah, I mean it's it's just I hadn't seen Keysia and forever and I was like, oh, oh my gosh, there she is.

Wow, what a weird character to have on the prairie.

Ah.

Anyway, the letter is just that that's at the post office, to say that Hans has gotten the bid from the what is it the railroad to make up yes, to build a hotel.

So Charles, who is now busy making this kitchen extension to the house, has to now leave town to take this job because of money.

Money.

Money.

The thing is the thing that's always interesting about the mill in Walnut Grove, And anybody who knows that part of the country knows there's not a tree for three hundred miles in Walnut Grove.

I mean there is now, but there are no forests that would support a mill in Walnut Grove.

That put that aside, there's you know, these lumber jobs.

It's just it's a wonderful device.

It gives everybody things to do.

But it's uh, it's where are the trees.

The trees behind the.

Trees are in Sonora.

When we go to Sonara, that's where the trees are.

True.

Also, the stream that runs that whole military is the biggest stream.

It really is a creek and not much.

Now maybe it was not enough to turn a mill.

Yeah, yeah, in.

The eighteen seventies, but then again, or that was Laura's fantasies about how rushing the water was don't really know.

Maybe in the winter.

It was turned on with a spigot, right exactly it.

Okay, so now we're back at the house.

Yes, uh, and the wall is open.

Oh.

Here's here's the thing.

We're back at the house.

The girls into the house.

They're like, whoa, what happened to the wall?

It's open and she's like, we're having making an extension yay.

And then she's like, go out and get water from the creek or something.

She's asked them to go out, and so they go through the open wall.

And then Ma's like through the.

Door, front door, and I'm like, way.

We use the front door.

We are civilized.

I don't care if that's all of.

The civilized people use the front door.

Yeah, it's so bizarre.

They're like halfway out, she's like, go through the door.

Okay, mo, fine, rules, rules are rules.

And then chaos ensues.

A cow comes in the kitchen.

You know, first, Carrie falls into Carrie falls into the pond.

Carrie has more to say in the early part of this episode than than we normally see.

Yes, this episode, I mean there's a early on there's kind of one of those gap moments, but it's really good.

Carrie is all up in this episode.

This is a Carrie great this one.

I love carry.

Write Rachel and are we seeing Rachel or Robin I at that age, I just don't know.

I don't know, but I always said those girls need to write a memoir called Carrie Speaks.

Anyway, Oh my gosh, that's the title.

Okay, So Carrie falls into the the to the pond, they come back.

Why that's important that that does happen?

It's not.

And then the torrential rainstorm out of nowhere happens.

It looks like the hose that it is.

It does thousand percent, but it's a funny, fun moment between Charles and ma who are trying to put this little tarp up on the and all.

There's enormous amounts of looping in this episode.

I mean, so much of this is looped, and which was.

Very common.

For so I am rarely aware of Michael or Karen looping.

They did it really in this episode.

I hear the looping and it's not that I'm seeing the looping, but there's something in the way that this audio was produced that you know, it was re recorded in the studio, and that's not always because.

It's like too clear and too loud, and there's obviously.

Exactly running and the rain, and you wouldn't hear Dan.

You're hearing people saying, Charles, can you perfect denunciation over the storm?

You go, yeah, yeah, No, it's these are technical challenges that you know that had to be overcome, and the show was very expedient about dealing with these things.

There weren't ad R studios, There was not We weren't looking at.

Picture when we looped.

We're literally listening to the sound.

Wait a minute, what.

No, there was in our on our show.

Once once looping it was I had a wild line with a bunch of the girls screaming, and they said, we're not sure what it is you said, and they ran a clip and I think they ran a clip from the river one and I did other than that that was I saw two clips and seventy.

I actually am because I don't know how you would do it if you weren't watching it while you were doing the voiceover.

So you heard you heard three beeps, as you do in a dr there's the three beeps, but we had we that's all we had as a reference, were the three beeps.

Everything else was playing in your memory of what you had done.

You were not seeing it, and you weren't seeing the perspective.

You weren't seeing any of that.

So me, you sort of knew where you were, You.

Knew where the you sort of knew where the camera was.

And if you were lost, the dialogue editor was there in the room and could tell you were doing such and such, but you know we were doing seventy loops and twenty minutes.

Jesus, because you had how did you know if you were sinking up to your mouth.

That skill its own things told you, and you were a dark You're in a darkened room.

You could close your eyes and just go back to.

Where you are.

Hell, this thing and what I would hear in my ears and I hear like the crow cawing or the airplane going by that was killing it and making it so bad.

So you literally they play that, and so you'd go.

You've just you are talking to your own voice and you're trying to sync with your own sound.

I tried that for part of the emotion that was there, so it doesn't sound horrible, but it's well.

No wonder why you kept saying, Dean, how unsure you were of doing the looping, especially at first, because you didn't have a reference point to watch what you were Actually, that is crazy to me, that is, and now it makes sense why some of the looping is so obvious in certain episodes.

Now it makes sense to me.

I well think yet, I think particularly in things like where there's a heavy rainstorm, where the dialogue where what was actually recorded is so garbled anyway, and that's your only reference if you if you had a picture to refer to exactly, you could have people could have sunk that up, sunk up a little better to it.

But yeah, it's just it was just the function of working in an exterior environment that was very loud all the time.

And they realized that the time it would take, the hours it would take days to loop episodes or to adr episodes, they just.

Weren't going to do that.

You mean to do it while watching to do it?

To do it, yeah, to do it properly.

While watching it, right while you're watching this.

This was Okay, much respect for all of you, because it's mostly amazing.

This was the style of the seventies.

Is when I talked to other people, Yeah, I'm sure, I'm sure.

In nineteen seventy five, and they went yep, yeah, beat b beep babe.

It was years before they started doing it the other way.

That was the standard.

You just getting there, but do it.

Okay, Well, once again I thought I knew pretty much everything there was to know and then boom new information.

Yeah, total surprise.

Okay, back to the episode.

So anyway, so we we've we've we've spent an ordinate amount of time talking about backstory about about looping.

But let's get to the introduction of of of Chris Nelson, who just sort of appears whistlings, he's hammering at first.

He's not whistling at first, he's hammering.

I don't think so.

He him And that's the thing.

No, he shows up and she's like, who are you and why are you at my house?

He knocks a door whistling, which is like when when Johnny Cash shows up singing, It's like, you know, the guy's trouble.

You know, the guy's right if he comes in singing or whistling, is the bad guy.

And she's like, why why are you here?

Well?

I heard you?

How did you hear that?

My kitchen with missus Olson of course, But yeah, and then it's like, well, okay, we need the help, right.

And he's a handyman of all sorts, and he's here offering to help to build the kitchen while while is not there anymore.

She's like, cool, I can't pay you.

And he's like, I'll just take what you can feed me.

And she's like cool, And you can also sleep here by the way in Saudi, nots Han some stranger.

But you know, you see I think that you know, you see the chemistry.

The flirtation is immediate.

I mean, there's no missing it.

It's like no undeniable.

It was right there in frame one, that first interaction.

Particularly, you see it from Karen as well.

But he's definitely like zero ed in right away.

I think this traveling man thing, I did question as it goes on you go, was he sleeping with a lot of the women where he was staying?

Was the hut?

I get room and board, sometimes I get paid, sometimes I don't.

But there's beautiful farm women all over the country and they are bored and I am here and it's a life.

But they all love him.

Carrie has a crush on him.

We've seen the stuff.

Carrie is like, he's adorable.

So it's like, okay, all the women at wall to Grove, now Carrie is starting.

Anybody walks in, Oh look a guy.

It's it's they just fall for anybody, even Carrie.

Now he's falling for strange guys.

It's like, and then she invites him for dinner.

He has dinner.

Wait a minute, and say right there at the head of the table at the.

And then he busts out pause fiddle.

And plays it better.

Sure does?

I mean he sort of minds it almost as badly as.

Well, just like totally can't play.

I said he plays in my notes, I wrote, he plays pas fiddle and to our delight, he's just as awful as Michael Landon is.

But whoever was you know, whoever in the in the recording session that played it really so oftentimes when Michael plays the violin, it's he plays it as a violin.

He's not playing it as a fiddle with that dual string thing.

That is, so that's what the fiddle is all about.

Well, they recorded Chris Nelson playing the fiddle like a fiddle.

That's true.

Now that right away I'm I'm like I said, I'm you can't marry on a lot of this stuff.

What the heck's he doing with her husband's fiddle?

Okay, he's the handyman.

You like him.

Oh, he's a great guy.

He's doing the work.

Where chat.

We're very friendly, we're being very social, we're feeding him.

Why is he just let me just grab your husband's personal fiddle and start playing.

You know how they feel about their instruments.

Do you think if I had someone of the house and said, yeah, watch, just grab one of Bob's guitars and start playing.

Na.

Na.

You do not touch somebody else's guitar or fiddle or drum set without their direct permission.

You don't just grab their stuff and if their wife goes yes, it's fine.

No, that does not happen.

You do not do that.

That is like my uncle played the violin and there were like very expensive violins at their house, and I knew it was a touch.

None of that stuff.

Well, obviously this is all in service of creating this huge concern for Mary.

The thing that really hit me is right off the bat, when Laura says, good night, good night, Uncle Chris.

Okay, we have to talk Uncle Chris.

They've known him for three hours and his uncle Chris the stranger that they know nothing about.

And Mary's screepy and weird.

Mary thinks she's cute.

Mary is totally making goo goo eyes at him, just like Laura and Carrie totally thinks she's adorable.

And it's like, aha, until missus Olsen and NELLI make it weird.

If nobody said anything, Mary would have been like, he's scared, he said.

But when when we made it weird by commenting on it, then she was like, oh no.

The alarm bells go off, yes, well.

But before that happens.

Oh and let me read a lovely quote from Karen's book Bright Lights Prairie Dust about Guilderat.

She wrote, he had let me do it into Karen Grassley, I don't know.

He had that charisma many women find irresistible when he showed up on set.

Even the little girl sat up and took notice.

He was sweet and hard working and endeared himself to all of us women, young and old, bouncy about b Beow Guildabrod.

Yeah, that was a great personally, Thank you.

I think that's yeah, that was a nice, nice take on car.

I've never done it before, just just like you know, just temper.

It back a little Brett good.

Oh wait, let's get to the main, the main point here, which is it's the nighttime knock knock at a knocked on the door.

It's just like pizza delivery, you know.

And her hair comes out with the hair down.

We know what it means when Ma has her hair down.

People looking stunning in the moonlight.

She opens the door in her in a nightgown and the hair down.

He's a goner, right, I mean we all are look at her.

I mean we'll look at her in this scene.

She is to die for.

Yeah.

No, she looks.

She looks spectacular, unbelievable.

She looks absolutely gorgeous.

And uh that I've seen this, this scene I've seen multiple times and it's like, boy, I mean, if you're if you're a man and you are commenting and you don't know someone very well, but you are commenting on the hair yea being down.

I mean you're making it.

You know, you're making a play here.

One there's no there's no ambiguity about this.

He's making a play one thousand.

But the thing that's also really interesting about this scene is that it's interesting to see Ma feeling beautiful y's right exactly, and sort of like taking it in and liking how it feels.

You know, I'm not saying she's about to run off with the guy.

But we never see mall like that.

I don't think we've ever seen her before and we will never see it ever again.

Of sort of basking in this.

A man is paying attention to me, and he's do things.

I'm beautiful and I'm enjoying it well, and I remember when I'm three kids, work and right, right, right, yeah, and you're on the prairie, right.

I totally think that, you know, if we could, we could drill down on this and look at this on a whole.

Number of levels.

But you know, Michael played the relationship with Karen pretty chastely.

You know the fact that you know, he takes his shirt off and we see that, but when Michael kisses her, it's like a peck on the cheek always.

It's never really like there's no real fault.

There are a few maybe in the content in the whole life of the series, but.

Not not a lot.

And I think being spoken to that way, and Karen being a very much an actress who is responding to what's coming at her.

She was enjoying it.

She enjoyed that flirtation.

And I remember I interviewed Sorry, no, I was Karen and the interviews on the Living on a Prairie website, but if you watch it, we talked about this and she was talked about how she loved this episode because she rarely got to.

Be pretty on this.

There was zero sexuality about Carolyn, and this is the one episode that she was able to sort of be a bit more sexual and to be a bit more beautiful.

And was always beautiful.

But the sensuality part, yes, absolutely, that's where this episode has a lot, has as much about as she's going to have through the life.

Of the series.

The chemistry between those two was really good.

I mean, it was so palpable, just jumped off the screen.

I said in my notes, I said, ma with her hair down bound like a bound pal he is one yes, And I wrote, he has one hundred percent hitting on her.

And then I went Mary goes into beast mode and Nelly goes into bitch mode.

And of course Laura has no idea what an exactly, and I can just.

The big questions.

Was she in appropriate, you know, expaying no, you were ben she was saying, no, I didn't do anything wrong.

I'm sorry the people who did my bathroom, you know, have a bathroom Redone guy did that.

Really nice guy.

Love the work he did in my bathroom.

I'm not having him come over the house in the middle of night, woman my nightgown, open the door.

That's not a thing.

I am not chatting with this guy in my wall.

And I think he's a great guy.

And no, absolutely nothing like that is ever happening.

So I'm like, yeah, no, that's not what you do with the guy.

But does he look like Gil Gerard is the question.

No, he does not.

You know, all of it, All of this is in service of getting us to Mary's protective right nature.

They go to Let's Enjoy, They go to church the next day.

He is planning Uncle Chris, Unkie.

Chris, and he tried to drive.

He's in the driver's seat of the wagon he's gotten.

On Sunday.

Yeah, it is exactly, oh yes, exactly like Pa.

And this is something that I never thought i'd ever say before in my entire life.

Here it is.

This is the first and only time where I agree with missus Olsen because she's looking at them like what excuse you?

Who do you think you are.

This young in your house?

Yeah, with carry on his shoulder and him all of a sudden like this father figure coming to church.

It is it's weird, right, it's weird, and it is.

There's a lot of weird stuff in this.

Yeah, and she.

Normal who did think he was cute?

And missus Olsen, I mean she was like, well, I mean she she hires missus Olsen.

Yeah, he's really great, but she did it.

I think Carline hired him to make Knocking jealous because missus Olsen clearly liked him and went al kay or the anyman fix her?

If you're a woman in wal mcgrove, you like Chris Nelson.

Yes, everyone's gonna like Chris Nelson.

Okay, So Mary overhears though missus Olsen saying this is this is something's up with this?

Like it's inappropriate?

Right?

And then Mary, this is this is the Mary I love where her sweetness goes out the window and she turns into a completely different person.

Like I said, bitch mode.

She she turns into uber protective mode.

And I have to say, though, I'm here for it because as a daughter watching this, I would be too every right, every right, Yes.

This is the Mary is Right episode.

Mary is completely right, She.

Goes, Yes, Mary has got it.

She is everything exactly as it is happening.

And okay, maybe you know she misinterprets something she sees later uh in the episode, but all the evidence is leading to her to feel like something is amiss here and this guy.

Is not good for our family.

Correct.

And I thought she was.

I thought she was wonderful.

She really turned that strong wonderfully.

One of my favorite moments, that's away the mice do play.

You are so horrible my favorite and monkey business, monkey business, monkey, monkey business, so.

Terrible, and the fact that I go really hard on it with oh, Laura is too young.

Mary, You're old enough.

You know what I'm talking about, you know.

Yes, but you have you know what I'm talking about.

Horrible horble, horrible, horrible, horrible, And she hits me and.

Then it's a mighty slap.

It's I think it's possibly the best slap on the entire seal.

Yes, so good, and.

You run away simpering, whimpering, And then.

Sue Anderson has one of her greatest performances I think ever in that moment after she's hit me and Laura's freekick, going why why did you hit her?

What does that even mean?

I have no idea.

I'm still a child, Gerda be's what I don't know?

And Mary freaks out and she's like, don't tell anybody, and I'm like, whoa, And then even that's still acting.

But when she finally goes, why did you hit her?

And she suddenly this whole shift.

She says because I.

Felt like it and I don't want to talk about it.

And turns into a nineteen seventies normal, fourteen year old girl and just boom, suddenly it's real.

Suddenly it is actually her, a fourteen year old girl in nineteen seventy seven going I I went.

Oh my god, that was brilliant.

It was brilliant.

She did that scene so well.

I know, she's so good, and I love that moment because she did have an attitude changed all of a sudden, and I'm here for it.

I love when Mary turns back.

There's nothing bad about what Mary is doing.

Mary is becoming, she is she is taking on responsibility for something, and you know, she looks she always has that a little bit of a with Laura, a little bit of a narc quality about her.

But this is different.

This is a whole different thing, and this is just right.

Yes, completely okay, So fast forward next day or so, Chris, Uncle, Chris, Chris, Chris, I'll never not think that's gross, falls off the roof.

Oh yeah right, come into the house and take your shirt off.

She orders, Now you find inside and take your shirt off, and I wrote, yes, ma'am.

When he argues with her, she says, do as I say, Chris.

He says, do as I say, Chris, and he kiss dam And I'm like.

Ma no, But I mean, interestingly, if that had been Michael, the shirt would have been off.

Maybe maybe Gil wasn't comfortable taking his shirt off, or maybe maybe Bill.

Yeah no he doesn't, he doesn't.

He takes his top shirt off.

But the but the you know, but that.

The end shirt like that was a bridge too far.

But I really got I mean, as as the kids would say, ma Ingles is clearly dom energy.

She's a top's a he's domb because she starts ordering him around and he's and then she did when she gets an advantage, she's like, do this, you're gonna do this, You're gonna do that, and he's going okay, and I'm like.

What is going on in this show?

Yes, it makes perfect sense.

She's the submissive, little sweet women in real life and in private bound power.

When the handman comes, she becomes something completely difficult.

Well now we know what maybe what went on even with Paul the popcorn I think, so.

What would.

That's great?

Totally.

She knows how to work a toolbox, is all I'm saying.

What.

I can't believe we're having this discussion right now.

Okay, my life is complete.

It's funny, Okay, Okay.

It is interesting though, in the service of making this point that Arthur Heineman, who wrote this episode, I mean, this is the kind of episode that Don Ballack would have written eventually later by the time he came.

Into the program.

But they go right at this.

There's no ambiguity about what we're what we are seeing, and what we.

Could be thinking about it.

And Mary is our Mary is our perspective.

We can all see it.

She's the audience.

Yes, she is the audience.

Yeah, wait can we I can't believe we're about to move on without discussing this.

So while she's bandaging him, he's like he also he talks about her.

Hair, talks about her hair.

She always wear your hair up, And I'm like, yeah, she works on the prairie.

Idiots like, of course she wears her hair up.

And of course she says it to him in a much nicer way than I do, saying, you know, it wouldn't be practical, not my idiot hair down.

But again he's going hard with her.

Man like there's no, there's no two ways about it.

He is into her and hutten into it.

She says, keep your mind on what you're doing.

Right right.

But she's also liking it, of.

Course she is.

That's very that's it's it's if Ma weren't liking it, she would have.

If Caroline hadn't been like, she would have responded differently.

They would have written it differently.

They wanted her to be.

The ambiguity is part of this for sure, which pays off.

At the end very nicely back with you do not even look at me.

She would order him out of the house.

Yeah right, okay, so she wears a shirt but Mary Mary, But also does Mary hear the conversation about like, oh, your hair looks nice?

No?

No, no, well we don't know that she does.

We see her Later mind Mary carry Out is outside talking to Mary's in the loft concern as she watches Chris work.

On the roof.

Yes, window level.

First, wait a minute, A minute, wait a minute, first first, after the course, after all the repair, and Ma says she's going to not only wash his shirt, repair his shirt and give I'm pau sure this is like, what are we doing here?

That just wouldn't happen?

Mary made Mary?

Yes?

So now Mary, she sees that she's completely flipped out.

One of the moment was she's off such a good merry moment.

I love it.

She demands to know why is that man wearing pasert that I made for him?

I mean it is epic, Mary, I love it.

And then her mother is like, what, I'm innocent.

This is just because I just repaired it for him, and what's wrong with you?

You little girl?

Meanwhile, she's totally justified and feeling this way.

To like totally And in that moment, Paw is on his way home, Thank Heaven.

We cut to the road and here comes the wagon and the theme music and pause coming home and back two.

Now I do like the scene when she comes home and to the is it a fight?

And Ma actually says who with.

Yeah, like, could there be anyone else?

Should we take a break and then finish up the episode that okay, leaving you guys hanging hanging, cliffhanger.

Here is it gonna end?

I don't possibly know.

All right, we'll take a short break.

We'll be right back.

When you visit seem Valley, California, you're stepping into the pages of history.

Go from the pioneers to the President's Explore beautiful wildflowers, hike through iconic Hollywood locations, and injured day aboard the actual Air Force one at the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library and Museum.

Throughout the summer, take the Little House fiftieth Anniversary tour at Big Sky Movie Ranch less than fifteen minutes from Los Angeles and thirty minutes from Universal Studios.

Seem Valley has small town charm with big jime history.

Go to visit ce Valley dot com for more information.

We are so grateful to visit Seemi Valley dot com for their commitment to presenting the Little House fiftieth Anniversary podcast.

And we're back with this epic, epic epic episode, The Handyman.

What happens next?

To you guys, Well, Pop came.

Pop comes back on horseback, looking very Bonanza like, looking like very old Joe Cartwright.

Very very very happy to see him, overly happy to see him, Chris, And Chris disappears, Yes, he disappears, nowhere to be found.

That you know, if you're if you're a man who's uh, you know, who's wanting to keep everybody comfortable with what's going on, you would stay present, you would meet the husband, you would be respectful, you would do all that.

That's clearly not where Chris is.

Guilty guilty, guilty, guilty, guilty, gilt guilty exactly.

Yeah, he's and then pause like I'm only if ten minutes, gotta.

Go and look at the great work this guy does.

Totally.

This guy is brilliant, this guy.

And Mary is like dying inside.

She's dying and don't go do you have to do?

What is it that he says to her?

And you may maybe took notes on in town he says.

Missus Olsen is saying that there's this handsome guy at the house and he's you know, and every he's like he's this perfect guy and looking something yeah, good looking, and somehow I'm not really jealous.

I mean it's like, what did he say something?

He's just not Miss she I think she thought she'd make me jealous.

Oh that's bad.

That's right, she thought she'd make me jealous.

Right exactly, because and this is the first and only episode I will ever say or feel this, missus Olson is right.

She's right to Charles, poor Karen.

This guy he's wearing the jellous thing when he's just like, oh, she's trying to make me jealous.

And the last and she's like and and hurt.

Yeahline's a little she's a little conflicted and hurt and yeah.

And then it's like yeah, yeah, he's like, what's what's the matter.

And she's like, miss yeah, yeah, you miss him a lot before you do something.

You're a grant later, Okay, then what happened?

And then.

Rides off up the hill and and the hammering starts again, like.

Immediately, yeah, it's Chris, Uncle Chris.

Uncles hammer again.

Yeah.

And that's a metaphor freak out because down by the crick by the crick, shenesses what looks she witnesses.

Here's my question though, that that Ma and Chris have this heart to heart of like he's just a wandering man, and you know, you know who who he's not going to settle with anyone, and who he plays the pity card?

Freaking who totally yeah right, totally totally playing the pity card, Like maybe this will work, Let's try this tactic.

He would want to be with me anyway.

But here's my questions, like, why is Ma so freaking committed to this guy?

Besides obviously is attracted to him like that, that's the only she's so committed to him.

She so cares about his life, and if he ends up with someone loving, who cares.

He's a handyman, do your job, go away, Allison's bathroom guy, you did a great job, but I'll never see you again.

But if Allison's bathroom man was guilt Rod, that might have been a different scenario.

Okay, So Mary sees my trips while they're coming back from.

The creek, and and you know, she's seeing it, and she knows everything she needs to know, and the back.

Three right, because he holds her and she sees this quote unquote, embrace it looked.

Don't mess with Mary, because what happens next.

What happens next is knock knock, knocking, knock on the door in the middle of the night.

Mary, now with your hair down and okay looking.

So was how old was little Sue at this point?

This was.

See no it's not yes Season four, Season four, Yeah, that's right, would be.

It was like she was shot in seventy seven probably, so I was fifteen.

So she's fourteen.

She's fourteen years old?

Oh?

She She presents very.

Maturely in this she really does.

She She was terrific in this scene.

Yeah.

Well, but just her her attitude is it was obviously written very clearly what she's going to say.

But she she.

She occupied that that need that moment extremely well.

When she's so she confronts it's just the audience knows, although I'm sure they know because they're listening to our podcast.

But everyone confronts Chris privately at night and is like, I want you to go.

You need to get out of here.

And he responds with, like, your mother is YadA, YadA, YadA, And her best comeback is you don't have to tell me about my mother.

Yeah, get that, get the hell out.

It's you love my mother, don't you is basically you know you're in love with my mother.

Yes, that's very but she just yeah, do you love her?

And he can't answer, and she goes, so if everybody can't answer you, oh, you'd be able to answer me.

And you're not able to answer me.

Hit the bricks right, Well, he's he is right, you know, he is present enough to that to know that because he knows he can't answer, he knows he has to leave, and he knows he's about to blow up this family and he can't do that.

Ultimately.

Yea, So so I guess the question is, well, let's go to the next day.

Next morning, Chris is mysteriously gone.

Yes, Mas very concerned about uncle Chris not fee there.

It's so weird.

And then of course she goes in the barn and Mary's like, yeah, he's bad, he's gone.

How does Ma infers so quickly that Mary knows something?

You know, all she's doing is raking in the in the uh huh.

Yeah, so this doesn't care all in service of a moment to get to.

A moment, right, But it's like Mary's the only normal one.

She doesn't care that the handyman's not there anymore like a normal person would feel.

But instead it's this mind blowing, earth shattering thing that the handyman is no longer there for Ma anyway.

And so then Ma confronts Mary like what's the attitude all about?

And Mary goes to town on Ma.

It's epic.

I love these marry moments.

I love them so much that when people say Mary's a goodie two shoes, I'm like, no, she is not.

She is fierce.

Yeah yeah.

But then Ma still keeps defense like, Ma, denial ain't just a river in Egypt, Like if you're attracted to him, you like, please spare me?

And she turns it all around.

I said, I said, I said, speech to Mary, and the confrontation in the barn, standing up for Chris, who she's known for a week and a half.

Come on, Ma, come on, Ma, you know for a week and a half.

Yes, I know.

And I love this story.

The story is great.

And and Mary is drawn in by she's prepared to accept this.

And I was horrible to Chris and I need to apologize to him, and you know so and.

So they're going to make it bother me.

But this is what bothered me.

Mary was not wrong.

That's deflecting, deflecting.

Nothing to see here, nothing to see here, and she turns it around so that Mary was the rude one and acted terribly when actually Mary was right.

I didn't like.

And then the draw I mean, and go find.

Him, yeah, and bring him back.

To bring him back.

They this episode, I know, I keep ripping on this episode.

I love it.

Well, it's a terrific It's a terrific episode, it really is.

But it does strain, it does strain credulity just a bit.

And he has to go back.

I'm done, but he does not come back, just a wanderer.

He really does love her, genuinely, but he does.

I must walk away because I have to go to a new farmhouse and find another hot chick to bother me.

Totally hot farm woman out there.

They're hot fog women out there, but only one Ma, only one Ma.

And he ends it by saying she goes where will you go now?

And he says what he's saying that to her daughter?

That is obtuse.

Myself whistles and walks away and he starts that language.

I was worrying if that was if that tune, you know, I don't know that tune.

I'm wondering if that's something that David Rose just wrote for him to.

Whistle or yeah right?

Or is that a yeah?

It sounds sort of like something he would have written.

It's very David Rose.

Now, I think is we were having a little moment of redemption because I'm thinking, I go, oh, maybe he's been redeemed here he does realize he like really loves her, not just sex like he really loves her, like he wants to find him well like her.

Maybe this is a turning point for him and going with happy endings that he does as he rides with go, Wow, that went really over the line, out of control.

Maybe I do need to settle down.

If I had a woman like that, who would say, I say, focus on I'll.

Get in here and take off your shirt.

Maybe he's good yeah, and get married and take changes life and stop being uh, you know, a wasteful womanizer.

Right.

That was my takeaway from it.

I think that's probably what the intention was, that somehow his finding Ma changed him for good and for the better, and now he's going to find a woman like Ma and settle down.

And at that moment, the next cut to night time in the little house and in walks.

Paw and everyone is so thrilled to see.

Him, and he looks at Ma, whose hair is down, and just takes a moment, looks at it and goes, your looks good like that and walks out of the house.

And then she's in love.

He loves her.

He thinks she's pretty.

She goes, she goes berserk.

Yeah, well, it's like, it's like, thank you, you've seen you're you're seeing me and uh, and of course they disappeared that he's going to go down to the creek to wash off.

And and here we go and cut to the Kirasawa moment with the girls in the doorway and mob Pop walked off into the darkness to the creek because he.

Needs to help him.

Yeah, it's a it's a it's a it's a nice way, I mean, it's a it's a lovely way to write that pot you know, finally sees her.

But it's it's it's written the whole way that he's a little you know that.

He's just he's oblivious too.

He's oblivious to everything for a guy, for a character who has generally written to be very empathetic with what's going on and feeling moments, I mean, it just shows that in in our world and our little house world, characters were written to serve a plot, and there there could be inconsistencies in the characters in the interest of serving the story right, right, and uh, And I think that was that was the nature of what episodic television was at that time.

I don't know that you'd see that kind of you.

You'd say that's a jump the shark.

Moment in today's world.

I just don't know that you would accept that this.

Episode is so interesting because again, it's a side of Ma we will never see.

Again, Yeah, never see it.

And it's it's nice to see this side of Ma.

And she's it's a real human yes, because again, like you said, she's not sexualized whatsoever in this series period.

So to get one little episode where there's a little yes, a little little sizzle, little yea.

And she played it beautifully.

She played all of that.

Flirtation and being flattered but but hesitant.

She she played all of that wonderfully.

She's beautiful.

Identify.

It's another thing where viewers can identify where you have a crush and you know it really can't go anywhere, but he is really cute.

Everybody's done that other crush and I kind of like the end I laughed at.

Did you ever, ever, do you ever have one of situations where you got really worked up over a crush and then when you got back with your significant other things are really well boom check check a jack abou ou as you it suddenly all gets worked out with your boyfriend or girlfriend because you just a big crush thing for a couple of days.

People have done Yeah.

People watching were going, hey, yeah, that that deadly did that.

Yeah, okay, I've done that.

Well it's I mean, it's totally human, especially when you're in a relationship for years and years and years, you know, it's it's very human.

Listen, she didn't act on any other thing.

Pulses.

She just was enjoying them, that's all I even though she couldn admit she was enjoying them.

So okay, so we've probably been summarizing all the way through this, but this was a This is a very entertaining, if you know, a little separated from the gener the normal themes that Little House covers, but a very a nice revealing episode from a a wonderful episode for Mary and Laura.

Is one of the.

Last time I mean Melissa, who knew everything about everything as a as a little person, you know, as a young person and always, I mean Melissa is totally aware.

For her to be playing complete obliviousness to all of this, I mean it's like, well, but Mary has to have that, she has to have, she needs that.

So Laura didn't have.

Like I said, Laura has no swagger.

She never did.

Even when she grew up on the show, she still didn't have any swagger.

So it wasn't a shocker that she was totally in the dark about any of this.

It just showed how young she actually and totally innocent she was.

And the fact that Mary picked up on it was really cool, Like it was just a very cool device, and it gave Mary.

So much to absolutely absolutely have to respect Melissa Sue you know, I mean, look Melissa Gilbert, because she's playing this the author character, and Melissa.

Owns a huge piece of a big next to Michael.

She owns that big piece of what Little House was.

Yeah, but Melissa Sue Anderson in moments like this and in many of the other episodes where she's playing tragedy after tragedy after tragedy, Melissa Sue Anderson showed herself to be a really wonderful, wonderful young actress and.

Very special.

And Michael wrote a lot of.

Stuff her tragedy after tragedy, after she can handle it?

Did it?

She she did it.

She can handle that, and she was just wonderful with it.

Yeah.

So I guess we say we love it, but it's like we're sort of shaking our heads, but we love the episode.

I love it.

It's I love it yet Sexy Mary gets mad.

I mean, these are too, that's.

The hammer swings.

It's excellent.

I think that's our show, everybody.

That is our show.

What more can we possibly?

Karen's book?

Get Out?

In Karen's book, she has many behind the scenes stories.

Yeah, yeah, she really really does.

We'll leave it at that.

If you want to know about more about this episode, read.

You can read more about it than that.

Yeah, it's an amazing book anyway.

But anyway, Yeah, that's our show, everybody.

I loved this recap.

I loved watching this episode.

Is so much fun to rewatch.

My goodness, We've got some fun stuff coming up.

For all events and things coming up.

We have our live podcast in New York City on November twenty seconds if the tickets are not on sale.

When this drops, the tickets will be on set.

The page will be live any moment now, so keep checking on it.

And obviously we will also make.

And the webs announcement.

The website is yes, what is the website?

Well, I don't know, but it'll be in the show.

It'll be in the.

Green room.

Forty will be on their page and you can buy tickets to our thing in here.

So and then I will announce it.

Yes, and then shortly after that an event.

Another event that is currently on sale is the Little House and Prairie cast Reunion at strathn Park and Semi Valley, a special Today event.

You can find out more about the event at Little House on the Prairie cast Reunions plural, Little House in the prairiecast.

Reunions dot com.

And tickets all and I would say they are selling very nicely.

Thank you very much.

Good stuff coming up.

All right, guys, thank you so much for joining us.

We will see you next time.

Bob get the wig.

Let's lie people with Guild Gerard