[SPEAKER_00]: I love connecting you with other physicians who have a real heart and passion for caring for people and that's exactly what you're going to get in this episode with Dr.

Jess.

[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to the all about pregnancy and birth podcast.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you're having a baby in the hospital, you are giving birth in a system that too often takes away power from women over what happens in their own bodies.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm Dr.

Nicole Calloy Rankin, a practicing board certified OBGYN who's at the privilege of helping go well over at Thousand Babies into this world.

[SPEAKER_00]: I've been a doctor for over 20 years and I'm here to help you take back your power, advocate for yourself.

[SPEAKER_00]: and have the beautiful pregnancy and birth that you deserve.

[SPEAKER_00]: This podcast is for educational purposes only, and it's not a substitute for medical advice.

[SPEAKER_00]: Check out the full disclaimer at Dr.

McCallRankin's.com for slash to disclaimer.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now let's get to it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Hello there, welcome to another episode of the podcast.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is episode number 2503, whether this is your first time listening, or you have been here before.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm so glad you're spending some time with me today.

[SPEAKER_00]: Dr.

Jessica Dagle, Dr.

Jess, is a board-certified pediatrician who works as a neonatal and pediatric hospitalist.

[SPEAKER_00]: She's also the founder and CEO of Mom and MeMD, a concierge medical practice in Atlanta, Georgia, that provides local and home and virtual care services to NICU babies with the focus on education and support for their mothers and families [SPEAKER_00]: She also offers life coaching for NICU moms to help them balance life after the NICU and be the confident mom they want to be.

[SPEAKER_00]: Dr.

Dagle is passionate about NICU families and postpartum care and believes moms and their babies should thrive on their NICU journey in and out of the unit.

[SPEAKER_00]: And what Dr.

Dagle does is not only based on her deep commitment to her work, she actually knew she wanted to be a doctor and a neonatologist when she was 10 years old, but it's also based on her own difficult personal experience with birth.

[SPEAKER_00]: She lost her first baby after giving birth at 19 weeks.

[SPEAKER_00]: She went back to work too soon after that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Her next pregnancy, she was on bed rest in the hospital for 65 days.

[SPEAKER_00]: From 22 weeks to 31 weeks when her son was born at 31 weeks.

[SPEAKER_00]: and her daughter was also born a bit prematurely as well.

[SPEAKER_00]: Her passion and her commitment and just heart for her work really shines through and you can't help but listen to her and think, man, I would love to have her be my doctor.

[SPEAKER_00]: We have a great conversation about five key areas that are affected when a mom has a new baby, as well as lots of great advice that is specifically for parents in NICU babies.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is an episode you may want to bookmark for later on just in case.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now let's get into a quick listener's shoutout before we get into the episode.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is from SFB Mama and the title of the review that she left me in Apple Podcast [SPEAKER_00]: I love how Dr.

Rankin's breaks down the reality of birth and how I don't need to be fearful.

[SPEAKER_00]: I highly recommend this podcast and appreciate the chats with experts on the front lines of pregnancy.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, thank you so much for that SFA Mama.

[SPEAKER_00]: I appreciate you taking the time to leave that lovely review, and I am so glad you found the podcast helpful.

[SPEAKER_00]: I would also like to shout out your review on the podcast so head on over to Apple Podcast leave me a review and I will give you a shout out on a future episode.

[SPEAKER_00]: Alright, let's get into the conversation with Dr.

Jess.

[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you Dr.

Dagle for agreeing to come on to the podcast.

[SPEAKER_00]: I am so excited to chat with you today.

[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm so excited to have been a fan for a long time on LinkedIn and it's just so reassuring to see someone passionate to do the work.

[SPEAKER_01]: They do on the OB side, especially given everything we've learned and training and all of that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely absolutely absolutely the end same to you.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just so excited to have you because your your passion comes through and what you do And we are gonna listen and get some of that knowledge and passion today.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes Yeah, so why don't you start off by telling us a bit about yourself and your work in your family.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay So I'm Dr.

Just a go on a board certified pediatrician.

[SPEAKER_01]: I live south of Atlanta I'm originally from Louisiana [SPEAKER_01]: and so transplant to here for training.

[SPEAKER_01]: I did my residency with more house pediatric residency and then I did a year of Neonetology Fellowship before I was signed because right prior to that time I actually had my own preterm sign and 31 at 31 weeks that needed to be in the NICU.

[SPEAKER_01]: okay so so so I had him and then I have a five-year-old daughter so his name is Liam and my daughter's name is Avery and they are definitely the joy of my life yeah and I always laughed because I was one of those people that grew up saying I did not want to have children I was like nope nope I'm just gonna take care of everybody else's children [SPEAKER_01]: So I knew early on.

[SPEAKER_01]: I wanted to be a pediatrician for like 10 years of age.

[SPEAKER_01]: So that was all that was in my life plan for sure.

[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: But all the rest of it was surprises along the way.

[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I always say that it was good surprises.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm grateful.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm definitely grateful.

[SPEAKER_01]: And my life experiences has definitely informed the work that I do.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's probably how it should be actually.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I like to be sure that really we're uplifting the voices of experts, because there's so much information out there, you know, everybody in their mama's happened also some media and say things.

[SPEAKER_00]: So can you tell us a bit about exactly what you're training your pediatric training, what training you went through, and I'm just pediatrics even before then, the training you went through to be able to do what you do.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so actually from the age of 10, I wanted to be what's called a neonatologist.

[SPEAKER_01]: So that's a so specialty of pediatric.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it's a pediatrician that does more extra training in taking care of sick infants and it could be premature efforts or term infants, but if instead it's right at the birth of a choir in intensive care.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so I read this book called The Long Dying of Baby Andrew.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it was actually autographed by a family who had a real pre-term son and it was kind of an ethical book because they were fighting for the right to I just let him die in peace as opposed to all these heroics and that was the right around the time that surfactant was coming out So the listeners surfactant is something our lungs make that allows us to breathe more easy [SPEAKER_01]: and so free term infants don't start making that until roughly 28 weeks.

[SPEAKER_01]: So earlier than that, they struggle with their lungs functioning properly.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so this family just wanted their baby to, you know, die, they had kind of come to terms with what it meant.

[SPEAKER_01]: But that was around that time that was coming out.

[SPEAKER_01]: So you know, as a medicine, we were about saving lives and doing a harm in which is arguably one of the things that intrigued me because about quality versus quantity of life.

[SPEAKER_01]: And even at a young age, my mom always says, oh, so.

[SPEAKER_01]: But even at a young age, I was fascinated by that like, what is the right thing, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: And so I did some research and it was this website called Unitology on the Web.

[SPEAKER_01]: And actually, this many years later, I just turned 40.

[SPEAKER_01]: So this many years later, 30 years later, that website is still around.

[SPEAKER_01]: Isn't that crazy?

[SPEAKER_00]: That is crazy.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but it tells you what to do.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it's like, you gotta go to school this many years.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, you've got a college and then you go to medical school, tell you what happens in medical school and it tells you about pediatrics.

[SPEAKER_01]: residency, which is where we learn how to take care of children.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I made it all way through all those stages.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then I was applying for fellowship as well in a gotty and like I mentioned earlier prior to that, that's when I had my own son.

[SPEAKER_01]: So the shift in my life course in a way, which is often what can happen without kids.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: So my training is like medical school, just like, which have to do is go to medical school, which is about four years, more or less depending on if you do a Ph.D.

or something else extra.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then you get into the residency of your choice, which is whatever type of specialty you want to do.

[SPEAKER_01]: So for me, that was Pediatrics, and then the training to do Neonatology, misextraffinant.

[SPEAKER_01]: Gotcha.

[SPEAKER_00]: Gotcha.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we all have to maintain our certification and things like that so it's like it's lifelong learning.

[SPEAKER_01]: It is it is and it should be because so much has changed us over time and so sometimes I'm always intrigued when people are always trying to do things from years ago and I'm like [SPEAKER_00]: It's supposed to be, it's supposed to be an improvement.

[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_00]: So tell us about mom and me, MD, what is that?

[SPEAKER_01]: So mom and me, this was why it's him to connect and support families outside of, after they have the baby, outside of the hospital.

[SPEAKER_01]: When I was in training, what you're in training, you can have the choice to do things that are more clinic-based versus hospital-based, and this is mostly for the listeners.

[SPEAKER_01]: But in the clinic, and a lot of parents probably will shake their head in the agreement, is often a rushed environment like, you know, when you go to be seen, you know, [SPEAKER_01]: They try to give you like 10 to 15 minutes to get your concerns and about your child.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I didn't ever really like that environment because a lot of times, depending on what was going on, it often took a good 30 to 40 minutes to really assist the family with their knees and concerns.

[SPEAKER_01]: And because of these repetitive short visits, a lot of times they were not really getting the comprehensive.

[SPEAKER_01]: care they needed.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it just increased my frustration in the airs.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so I saw in the hospital the time that I felt I needed, I could take.

[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: I did the city of the bedside.

[SPEAKER_01]: We need to go over what John is this and what is happening.

[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: I wanted to take those 20 to 25 minutes.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was on me at my, my, my leisure.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I enjoyed that because I knew I was effectively getting across what this family needed to know.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that mattered to me more than just the turnover of.

[SPEAKER_01]: how many people I was seeing.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I understand that medicine is a business.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I find early on I tell residents like, you just have to decide what kind of person you want to be right and who you want to help.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then that's how you're going to stay anywhere you spend in, you know?

[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I started working in the hospital and we'll get to my story about how I got there.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I started working on level two NICU, which I love, because it's taking care of families.

[SPEAKER_01]: And again, I can spend that time educating them well.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, why is your baby being a minister, NICU?

[SPEAKER_01]: what do we want to happen, what needs to go on after that.

[SPEAKER_01]: And but I found that I also wanted to follow them after.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it's like trying to get that clinic environment without the constraints of the time.

[SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I wasn't quite sure I could really do it.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I fought it for a little while.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then I started like just Googling like home health or follow up in the home kind of like that old school medicine, which is why and why to be a doctor anyway.

[SPEAKER_01]: I love the idea of like, [SPEAKER_01]: going to someone's home and connecting with them in their space where they felt comfortable.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I found a neonatologist in Carl Rollo that was doing.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, oh my god, like somebody else has this great idea and I understand what's needed.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I couldn't let it with her.

[SPEAKER_01]: She told me about the business model.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so the term of mom and me is almost this old pediatrician.

[SPEAKER_01]: at the time it comes almost from the baby's perspective like the baby understanding the child is standing there is me and my mom like us together yes it's important that diet is important right and the mom has to do well as well as my mom does is almost as well as I do [SPEAKER_01]: So that informed the postpartum part of what I do because I can care about the child all day long, but if I don't know what's happening at the family level at the mom level, the dad level, then we're really not being effective.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I was like, I always want to give effective care.

[SPEAKER_01]: So that's how mom and me came about.

[SPEAKER_01]: And initially, I was going to just do like just newborns and [SPEAKER_01]: I knew Mama's and then I was like, I think I was kind of got a little niche.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, well, there are a lot of people that are focusing on new moms now and you know, a lot of things with postboarding we do us and things emerging, but not a lot of people pay attention to the post-nique you follow up time frame.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so I was like, you know, maybe I need to and that was already my passion.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I was like, hiding from because it was different.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, well, nobody's doing any home care for like, Nicky baby.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, well, I could have hit the line.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I just started asking questions.

[SPEAKER_01]: And now I've worked with a few families.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I love it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I love being that point person that's like that extra level of knowledge and reassurance for the families.

[SPEAKER_01]: Because again, they're still going to the pediatrician of women that may often feel rushed.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I had some families say that like, well, I needed just a little bit more time to talk about what's going on with my babies, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: That's how mom and you came to be.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now, before we get into some of the practical tips of an advice because I like to do that, maybe you wanted to share with us what happened with your own Nick you journey in your story.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, what happened to you?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so like I said, I was going on the path to becoming any and it's all just so in some way, I was going to be taking care of dealing with creamy babies.

[SPEAKER_01]: In my intern year of pediatric residency, I got pregnant and then I ended up having a miscarriage right at around 19 weeks.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that, yeah, that for me was like my first reality into like, wow, like the work that I do and in a close to the arrive because you know, I'm seeing new babies being born all the time, especially because I was doing a lot of NICU rotations.

[SPEAKER_01]: Before that, and even in my residency, I was pet made it heavy.

[SPEAKER_01]: So when I was pregnant, like, as you know, in residency, a lot of times you'll do multiple of the same rotations.

[SPEAKER_01]: So like, right, like the first year you might do two ER rotations, so it might be at the beginning and the end of that year.

[SPEAKER_01]: So people who know I was pregnant.

[SPEAKER_01]: Then, you know, like by the time I came around the game, they were like, so, like, where's the baby?

[SPEAKER_01]: And I had to be like, oh my god, you know, I'm talking about it.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it's that re-traumatizing where are you kind of trying to heal and then you have to explain all over again what happened.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then it helped me to have like a personal conversation with my OB because she didn't make it for that delivery.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I end up delivering the baby, like, by myself, [SPEAKER_01]: I had because I didn't like the way some of that was handled, but I think it opened my eyes to how we as healthcare providers, doctors, like whatever term people like to call themselves, how we sometimes can lack awareness around like, [SPEAKER_01]: how we're moving, the things we're saying are not saying.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I found myself having to explain to my husband, why we wasn't resuscitated this baby.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I felt like that was when she should have been stepping up to be like, hey, let me talk to you about this.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think her knowing that I was in medicine kind of made her hold back a little bit when I was the person that was grieving too, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: So it's helped me to understand it even when people [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, they may understand the medicine, but there's still people going through an experience.

[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.

[SPEAKER_01]: So still validating that, hey, this is hard, it sucks.

[SPEAKER_01]: Or what do you want me to explain to your spouse or partner?

[SPEAKER_01]: So you don't have to, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: So that may that awareness.

[SPEAKER_01]: I went back right to work after like four weeks.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think I gave myself probably enough time and I think that's like in medicine.

[SPEAKER_01]: We're so like so tightly and like let's get back on track, you know.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah and and so then I got pregnant towards into my second like in the middle of my second year going to third year.

[SPEAKER_01]: And because of that, I was considered high-rails and so I was seeing in the maternal fetal medicine doctor, I was doing a progesterone shots.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so during the pregnancy, though, like the pre- prior pregnancy when I had the miscarriage, she said, I was doing some cervical friendly.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I started having some early labor pains, and so she told me to be on bed rest, but I was in my house, and I was like, [SPEAKER_01]: trying to do my best, but I don't know, like, and now I give myself a little grace about that, because I'm like, I think what was gonna happen was gonna happen, if I just had laid down in my bed all day, I think it's just it would have had the same outcome, because all I did was like walk around my apartment, absolutely.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then I would to get somebody one night, and that's when I went to full on like labor.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so when I still had that in my head, like, oh, I should have probably done something different.

[SPEAKER_01]: So this time when she told me, [SPEAKER_01]: You need to go on better.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, well, please put me in the hospital because I I feel like I'm gonna, that's the best way I can do it to make sure that I'm not like tempted to run around or just do anything.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, I was in the hospital for like 65 days.

[SPEAKER_00]: Jesus.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, six to five days and I had my son at 31 weeks.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I went in at 22 weeks and had him at 31 weeks.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_01]: And he was in the naked for about five weeks.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so, and did you just go into labor early?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I did.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, okay.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't know.

[SPEAKER_01]: 24 weeks.

[SPEAKER_01]: He'd given me the bedamette those own shots, which for the listeners that helps to mature the lungs or the babies.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so then I got another dose at around 20 weeks.

[SPEAKER_01]: She was like, okay, I think, you know, if anything happens to this, chances are which I knew that, you know, as a pediatric resident.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so I think my water broke around right at 29 and something weeks and we were like, oh, no.

[SPEAKER_01]: But she put me on antibiotics, she said, maybe it'll like seal up and you'll do fine.

[SPEAKER_01]: So we just monitor vitals and things like that.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I made it all the way to 30.

[SPEAKER_01]: I made it like a additional two weeks after that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Right, but that time I knew it was real because a couple of times I'd already gone back like nearly Russia over where you think you might be doing something and give you some fluids, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: It probably some other means that I would paint it to do it at the time Like I'm more of now, but I did it right, but um, but and then they've calmed down I'm like I'm right, but that third time I text her I said no lady this we're having this baby today It's the right.

[SPEAKER_01]: This is I timed is got it [SPEAKER_01]: So we had him and he actually did pretty good in the nick you like he got a dose of the surfactant But I mentioned earlier and then he might he was on event that night and then the next morning But the next morning about the time I got to see him.

[SPEAKER_01]: He was actually going our room air a state off the oxygen that whole time [SPEAKER_01]: He just required treatment for jaundice.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm on an off a little bit, and then, but with a term, the feet are grow, which for the listeners means like in your baby, she's all they have to do with feet and grow, because they're too small to go home in the car, and see, they don't weigh enough to sustain their temperature, things like that.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, ideally, want them to be in a position to survive and thrive at home.

[SPEAKER_01]: But when, like most parents, which is what informs a lot of the work I do now, you think, okay, once I get my baby home, I need you, that's it.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's good, but the NICU journey keeps going.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, it does.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: You don't.

[SPEAKER_00]: Therapies.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, my first daughter was 32 weeks.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I told it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's going the worries there.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: All of it.

[SPEAKER_01]: All of it.

[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, I don't regret it in the sense that I wouldn't have really been able to connect with my family's now.

[SPEAKER_01]: If it wasn't for that because even as I wanted to do the work, [SPEAKER_01]: become it in the in these colleges, I would have only still understood the medicine or would have not ever understood the emotional impact or the life impact of having a pre-me without having my own.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's just some things you're not going to understand unless you exist.

[SPEAKER_01]: Now that I want everybody to experience it to help people, but in true as form, when you've experienced something, can you really truly empathize with others?

[SPEAKER_01]: And so he had to go back on a feeding tool for a little bit.

[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, then I was trying to still finish training because I had interviewed on bed arrests to get into fellowship.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I got in and then I had to finish training late.

[SPEAKER_01]: So everything got shifted.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think I made space for the fact that my life had changed.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm so again, trying to just let me try to get back on track.

[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's going to be like, you know what?

[SPEAKER_01]: Let me take [SPEAKER_01]: take whole space for this experience and see what is different with are my current needs as opposed to what I thought whenever I was childless or that's different.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so that's kind of what has informed that part of my work.

[SPEAKER_01]: And while I also adding life coaching offer, Nick, you must because that part of moving forward can be very difficult because some part of you.

[SPEAKER_01]: you still has to deal with the trauma of being in the Q and I never thought that it was traumatic actually because I think also as I knew what to expect.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I needed to recognize the emotional impact more than I'd had at the time.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: Wow.

[SPEAKER_00]: That.

[SPEAKER_00]: So obviously you just you bring a wealth of experience.

[SPEAKER_00]: to do this for sure.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we said being said, then let's go ahead and get into some practical tips and advice.

[SPEAKER_00]: I know you mentioned there are five areas that are affected when mom has a new baby.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, to think about, let's talk about that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yes, this area.

[SPEAKER_01]: I love this and this has come from me doing like a post problem planning workshop that I used to do because I think that one of the things I wanted, this was one of me wanting families to feel richer that they are not.

[SPEAKER_01]: different in the sense of like there's nothing they're doing wrong and like if they're having been a challenging hard when they have a baby because you know with social media brings a lot of good and bad good that you can see when people are being authentic about struggles and challenges you're like I see I'm not alone right but but then bad when everybody else is trying to fake it like everything is great you're like well I'm not struggling with this right that's [SPEAKER_01]: So the five areas that are affected are first the mom right like you've had a baby like I think people don't really realize how many minutes of that is at this part of what I love and like I'm not really bad jealous of you guys, but I'm grateful to you cuz you can get the baby here [SPEAKER_01]: But I love watching you do it, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Love being in the deliveries and seeing the baby come out of that.

[SPEAKER_01]: I hope I imagine you probably feel the same.

[SPEAKER_01]: I do.

[SPEAKER_01]: But it's just so amazing to me every time.

[SPEAKER_01]: It never gets old for me to see it because I'm just like, man, all the things that had to go right from there, whether eyes are to where their nails are.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's crazy to me.

[SPEAKER_01]: Just a miracle.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's really a miracle every time you see it.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so, but you're doing this mom, and you've done this, and your body has changed, and I think that's where we are doing better, see more people doing it better education with moms about what really is happening in their bodies, because I think we just think, oh, we're pushing out of baby, like no, no, no, no.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, not just, it's not just anything, okay?

[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_01]: This is like a movement.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: So you're mind, your body, your emotions, all of you is changing in your person.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then now you have this baby who also is going through this fourth trimester experience, who's also have to...

[SPEAKER_01]: deal with a different environment and have to do things differently.

[SPEAKER_01]: They didn't have to eat to grow.

[SPEAKER_01]: They just lay theirs on the ground a little bit and play with a cord.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know?

[SPEAKER_01]: And like now they're like, wait, I got a suck and a lot of these things.

[SPEAKER_01]: People touch in me and step the scopes and everything.

[SPEAKER_01]: You probably don't know what's going on.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, you know?

[SPEAKER_01]: And so they're also trying to deal with that and then you're mentally thinking, [SPEAKER_01]: I'm responsible for this person.

[SPEAKER_01]: And like you start thinking ahead, the college, you like, man, the baby's only one day old.

[SPEAKER_01]: Are you worried about college already?

[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: But you do.

[SPEAKER_01]: You do start having those thoughts.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's insane, really.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so then, then your relationship, so relationship with yourself, your spouse, your baby, like whoever, like everything is changed.

[SPEAKER_01]: And of course, to how you feel about them, what you think, I didn't even really process what happened to kid, met myself until after I had my childhood.

[SPEAKER_01]: I will see a kiss for a living right now, and never matter like I never thought about what do I want to do you know in some way I'd be like I think what I have kids I don't want to do this or I won't do that we all say those things will never let do this, but you know it's not true right [SPEAKER_01]: But we've all shot too, we've all shot absolutely, absolutely.

[SPEAKER_01]: But so your relationships are changing, and then because then the dad or your partner, it's also like, wait a minute, you know, I have these still are things, and then your household, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I tell people nothing changes, just because you have a baby and everything changes.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, it's like, yo bills still do, you still have laundry, you still have to worry about what you're going to eat.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then if you have other kids, who want to pick them up, who's taking care of them, so you can focus on this baby.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then lastly, your career, or even if you want to stay at home, like, what does that look like, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Or if you're going from a career to now you want to stay at home.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so that's like every facet of your life that you're managing every day, those things change are impacting when you have a baby.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so when I used to do the workshop, I used to just have people just sit with that and think, well, what would be ideal because the thing is, [SPEAKER_01]: even when you play and we know that like playing as they'll go as playing sometimes.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I think you still should be aware.

[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.

[SPEAKER_01]: Ideally, I would want this person to help me with this and I used to tell families to develop what's called a 911 crew.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like the seal folks of people that you go call for X, Y, and see.

[UNKNOWN]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: Have you all been in color and you're somebody of this happening if this is happening at least just have those three or four people in my Because you're gonna need something at some point and if you thought about at least a little bit of had time You know, I'll have to be in that panning mode of well who can help me with my kids?

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, my friend said, you know, she was going to be a town where I grabbed a kiss from me for school for a few weeks That that automatically can de-stress you absolutely [SPEAKER_01]: Those are the areas that's changing, and I think if we let people know, hey, expect this, then they can say, okay, just like when you're going on the trip, if you expect that there could be right, you don't get a number, I'm going to have the things you need and so it's just more making it a norm, that things are changing instead of like you're doing some wrong, and that's why things are changing.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and it's also important to think about these things while you're still pregnant because once the baby comes and everything is hitting you like the whole over the place so you need to autopilot yes yes and we focus so much on which is important yes you need to focus on like get you know your childbirth education yes you want to get your nursery together yes [SPEAKER_00]: you know, people folks doing these gender reveal parties and all of those things.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's fun.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but you gotta think, you gotta start during your pregnancy thinking about what's going to happen after because that's the long hole.

[SPEAKER_01]: It sure is.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's why I tell people now when a couple of some of these moms, if I see them ahead of time, I'm like, don't be asking for all these baby clothes that your baby should always tell them you need stuff for you.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, the baby a pack of white onesies and some socks they gonna be all right.

[SPEAKER_01]: They don't care.

[SPEAKER_01]: We're too.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, no, they know.

[SPEAKER_01]: I had stuff people gave me stuff that I had to give away.

[SPEAKER_01]: I had people gave me stuff with when my child was gonna be 24 months old.

[SPEAKER_01]: I've been like, I hope in two years.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'd be a provider right.

[SPEAKER_01]: I couldn't use that money for a meal, was it?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: You just have to think practically about the things that are going to happen.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's just making it normal, too.

[SPEAKER_01]: The baby showers and the dinner feels we've made that a thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: So now we need to make mother-in-parties and things to support the mama thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: Start our own new trends.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, that becomes the norm.

[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.

[SPEAKER_01]: I love it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I love it.

[SPEAKER_00]: So let's talk about what things do you want to say, like what pieces of advice to your pieces of advice, specifically for parents that have Nicky babies?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I should do this one.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm doing a masterclass tomorrow.

[SPEAKER_01]: That things to do are no.

[SPEAKER_01]: If you should find, you're maybe a minute to the Nicky you.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it's because there's a lot of people.

[SPEAKER_01]: For a lot of people, it is a surprise.

[SPEAKER_01]: They're maybe in and up in the United States.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm curious you, Nick.

[SPEAKER_01]: Um, because if there's something going on in the pregnancy early enough, a lot of times they're being told like, hey, you're going to need to go deliver at this specific place because you're going to need this specific surgery or things like that.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so those families end up a lot of times being introduced into what is a make you early on, but most people they're like, [SPEAKER_01]: going all in their merry life and some event happens where they're delivering early or the term baby is not breathing right or doing something.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so what I was safe for a family who ended up in the NICU is one just graph them with the fact that you did your best like.

[SPEAKER_01]: Because for 99% of the people, if you had some foresight that to do XYZ, you won't end up there, I think most people would take that chance.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, okay, so you telling me if I do this, I won't have a baby to make you okay.

[SPEAKER_01]: So what we know that's not possible for a lot of time.

[SPEAKER_01]: let that try to work on letting that kill go.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then the second thing is rally like friends and family to support you are in a way, choose a point person that could be that sounding bore for even communicating with the doctors and getting information.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's especially right away because most of the bombs who end up having a baby that is going to make you, they themselves are requiring some type of further care as well.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: They're on mag and because of free clamps, you are there and having to go to the ICU themselves because they need something or lost too much blood or just different things.

[SPEAKER_01]: Then that being connected to their baby is often someone else is seeing the baby, the grandma or the dad.

[SPEAKER_01]: So.

[SPEAKER_01]: Really empowering them to be like, hey, please hit the information, communicate with the nurses and doctors about why the baby is there and what are the next steps.

[SPEAKER_01]: And feeling power to do so, I'm really, really big on empowering families to advocate for themselves when it comes to communicating with the healthcare team.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you should not need to be a free to talk to anybody, but anything we're guarding a baby.

[SPEAKER_01]: Now, there's a way to do is, sure, and we don't have to be aggressive and frustrated, but I've learned to read into even that aggression as fear.

[SPEAKER_01]: and so that's why I even say for our healthcare providers to take a step back and look and it did a lens of this is a family who we do this every day like this is Mike most of the time they're first experienced in the calendar we we when we went to work we knew with the chance of us dealing with the pre-charm baby or sick mom or whatever [SPEAKER_01]: they didn't know that that was going to be what happened when they woke up that morning.

[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_01]: So thinking about that, but really one, knowing that you can advocate for yourself, you have a right to understand what's going on with your baby, like why are they being admitted?

[SPEAKER_01]: Ask these questions clearly.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like why are they being admitted?

[SPEAKER_01]: What is the next step?

[SPEAKER_01]: What you have to do?

[SPEAKER_01]: And what do you foresee as far as when they'll be able to go home?

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm trying to think what else?

[SPEAKER_01]: Other than that's a guilt.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think really important is how like a get a notebook or something that you can write and keep track of things because a lot of information is coming at you.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_01]: I like to I don't mind repeating.

[SPEAKER_01]: I tell people we're gonna probably have the same conversation for the opening next week about three or four times and I'm okay with that.

[SPEAKER_01]: I plan for that because they're only gonna retain about probably five to ten percent of what you said and the first thing is they just want to know it's a baby okay and then that like when they can come home right then you got to steal it in all the middle right [SPEAKER_01]: Like, wow, let's go now.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I won't let that frustrate me because I understand, you know, they just want to know everything's going to be okay.

[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so just, that's my tips on medically for the family's at this time.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, I love that.

[SPEAKER_00]: I love that.

[SPEAKER_00]: So as we wrap up, what would you say is the most frustrating part of your work?

[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's for me of an frustrating.

[SPEAKER_01]: I guess about what I say, [SPEAKER_01]: I guess what's frustrating is, like, sometimes just seeing that there can be a lag in, like, communication with families, you know, between the healthcare team and families, like, I think that's for me.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think I sometimes frustrated just in medicine, how.

[SPEAKER_01]: we need to do better in terms of being aware of our families and our situations and that the work we're doing, how important it is, how we make such an impact.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like they're going to remember us for a long time associated with such a huge event in their life.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, [SPEAKER_01]: like when they think about the birth of their baby or the sadness or the death of the thing, your face, your name is always going to be remembered along with that experience.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so just taking that in, I think, is important.

[SPEAKER_01]: So that frustrates me that I don't think a lot of people really think about it that way.

[SPEAKER_01]: Um, so that's probably the most frustrating thing other than just I, you know, I would be okay with seeing just healthy babies being born all day so obviously I don't want anyone to be sick sure so that's like the second frustrating thing for me to yeah and you mentioned sad like yes I would or was the saddest part of your [SPEAKER_01]: I think that is, I think it is like sad seeing like death and seeing families like deal with heart and pain.

[SPEAKER_01]: That doesn't ever get old for me in the sense of like even now when kids die or babies die, I cry.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't want to lose that because I've just accepted that that's just part of the journey.

[SPEAKER_01]: for myself and I make, I make a room for that and I think it is helped me to stay like not getting burned out actually because I'm authentic in my feelings about the fact that sometimes it does suck, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: We don't like when we don't have the answer, we can't fix anything.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think if families know that we feel that same frustration, it bridges that gap, it bonds us together.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, absolutely.

[SPEAKER_01]: Then what's the most rewarding part of your work?

[SPEAKER_01]: Seeing all the babies and connecting with families, I love connecting with people.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's just like at the heart of what makes us like human and what makes this life worth it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, so she got to deal with all the BSs.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, if we go have to deal with it, it's me a long one at least we have people that, you know, are rallying with us and loving with us and crying with us and all of it, you know, I think you need people for all of it and so I love like I love seeing a family feel.

[SPEAKER_01]: blessed and reassured that I was a part of their life because I feel the same way.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I feel blessed to be a part of their journey, too.

[SPEAKER_01]: Even if it's hard, I had one of our respiratory therapists.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was at one of her deliveries and her baby ended up passing and, you know, that was so hard because this is the first time I've worked alongside for six years.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, we would want to deliver this together, you know?

[SPEAKER_01]: And after after everything, she still came to me and said, you know, Dr.

Dagle, it's I had to have somebody there.

[SPEAKER_01]: I would have rather been you.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I would remember thinking, wow, like, for her to tell me that in the hardest moment of her life, she was glad that I was a person there, like that just like changed me, like all the way around, you know?

[SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know, I just love like I get that joyful feeling every time I'm interacting with the baby.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I just baby.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's still cut up with the big kids, you know?

[SPEAKER_01]: Especially like those toddlers, then like the cut up, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: I just think it just helps the kid in me to stay alive too.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I love that definitely.

[SPEAKER_00]: So then what is your favorite piece of advice that you would get to expect their mom or your family's?

[SPEAKER_01]: I think what the more piece I would say is just know that you are not alone and because sometimes the journey can't feel lonely and that's at every stage like when you are [SPEAKER_01]: pregnant when your baby is one when your kid is 10 you're always going to be going through changes as a parent and there's always something more to be to learn I always that's why I was till my family's like even as a pediatrician I have learned so much as a mom doctor that I didn't have the perspective of when I didn't have kids [SPEAKER_01]: And so I still had to go through all of the changes like, is it time to feed my baby more?

[SPEAKER_01]: Do they want to feed it?

[SPEAKER_01]: The breast?

[SPEAKER_01]: Is that the cue?

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it didn't matter like that I knew more than had learned more.

[SPEAKER_01]: I still had to go through an experience as well.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and so you're not alone in that regard is so take pride in that just like everybody else has figured it out you're going to figure out what works for you to and it's going to take some like [SPEAKER_01]: process.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think if they just iterate with that, you know what, I'm learning myself and my baby, I expect things to change and I'm going like roll with it.

[SPEAKER_01]: If they can be flexible, I think the people who are more flexible and the way that they approach it, I think they end up fair and battle mentally instead of putting like these restrictions on themselves on which makes you feel like you're always failing.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so if they're not there's some there's some hard [SPEAKER_01]: You know, maybe they'll do it one time, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: So I'll be laughing at you now.

[SPEAKER_01]: Just to say, you know what, they survived that leg, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Great.

[SPEAKER_01]: They'll have to be on repeat.

[SPEAKER_01]: But anybody who's being honest, as a parent would tell you, they didn't have that thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: They were like, well, the greats in God, they made it.

[SPEAKER_00]: They made it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.

[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.

[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we're gonna give people a find you and connect with you.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're just sitting and working with you or learning more about what you did.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I'm actually on all platforms.

[SPEAKER_01]: So on LinkedIn, I'm on to just day go MD.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then also the same thing on Facebook, but then on Instagram, I'm on mom and me, I just score MD.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then I have a link there that links to like services.

[SPEAKER_01]: I do the in-home concierge care for newborns and if you families here in Atlanta.

[SPEAKER_01]: So that's actually where I come to the home and we'll see the baby and take care of them for, we'll be called the fourth trimester, which [SPEAKER_01]: almost doesn't quite the plasma times the Niki babies.

[SPEAKER_01]: They have like a extended fourth semester.

[SPEAKER_01]: So now I say four time yesterday beyond because those families, some babies, some Niki babies might come home right away and it's something that is going to take two or three months.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: So just there for those families as they need.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then also I do life coaching for Niki moms who are trying to get back on track in their lives after having a Niki baby.

[SPEAKER_01]: and Bill Confidence as a mom that they know they can be.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, awesome.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, thank you so much for coming on today.

[SPEAKER_00]: You're interested.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like I said, your energy and your passion for your work just shines through and I know folks are going to be like, how can I work with her because she's just so delightful.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, a lot of love it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I love it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I love my families and I have fun and it's just like this all the time.

[SPEAKER_01]: And only for only all the frustrating thing I would say is like, [SPEAKER_01]: medical records and EMR, Charity of that stuff.

[SPEAKER_01]: I can just like talk to families all day.

[SPEAKER_01]: We just talk to that all day.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, absolutely.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, thank you so much again.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I love the work that you do.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I love your [SPEAKER_01]: new way of thinking about labor and delivery and it was so refreshing for me to see that because you know Sometimes you're like in there.

[SPEAKER_01]: You're like can this be done a bad way and when I started here I use talking on my seat.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not the only one that thinks things could be done if there you go.

[SPEAKER_01]: There you go.

[SPEAKER_01]: I love it Well, thank you so much [SPEAKER_00]: Wasn't that a great episode?

[SPEAKER_00]: I really enjoyed chatting with Dr.

Jess and hearing about her attorney and her experience and her commitment to her work.

[SPEAKER_00]: After every episode, when I have a guest on, I do something called Dr.

Nicole's Notes where I talk about my top takeaways from the conversation.

[SPEAKER_00]: Here are my Dr.

Nicole's Notes from my conversation with Dr.

Jess.

[SPEAKER_00]: Number one, her passion for her work really shines through.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I know for a fact that there are many of us out there who approach care like this, where we are truly and honestly committed to service and appreciate the privilege of what it is that we do.

[SPEAKER_00]: You just have to sometimes do some work to find them.

[SPEAKER_00]: So if you don't feel like you have a doctor or a pediatrician, a OBGYN, a midwife, whoever is taking care of you who really feels committed to you and taking care of you, then look for someone who is better suited for you.

[SPEAKER_00]: Someone who makes you feel seen, who makes you feel hurt, who makes you feel valued because you are absolutely positively worth it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Alright, next thing is give yourself some grace, none of us are perfect and sometimes just by doing all the things right, some things will just happen that are beyond our control.

[SPEAKER_00]: Dr.

Dagle felt some guilt over being on bed rest and then she started having contractions and when she went to get something to eat.

[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, wondered could that have impacted what happened, probably didn't, but it's hard sometimes to look back on things and wonder, could we have done something different?

[SPEAKER_00]: Just give yourself some grace.

[SPEAKER_00]: You are doing the best that you can and you are doing a great job.

[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes things are just difficult.

[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes life unfortunately is just hard, so keep your head up.

[SPEAKER_00]: Know that you are doing great.

[SPEAKER_00]: Know that you are doing wonderful and give yourself some grace.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then the last thing I want to say is be sure to prepare for postpartum while you are still pregnant.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is not something that we talk about nearly enough.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's definitely not something that you're going to get a lot from your OBGYN.

[SPEAKER_00]: We focus a lot on pregnancy care, you know, prenatal care in the birth and not a lot on what happens post-partum and really post-partum is the long haul when things really really really get started and cranking up with life and the changes So think about things like your household like you're finding it says like your relationships Why you're still pregnant and that third-time master is a good time to do that and it doesn't have to be overwhelming It doesn't have to take up tons of time sometimes it can feel like oh my god [SPEAKER_00]: you know, all of the things, but just give some thought to the things that she discussed in the episode.

[SPEAKER_00]: Preparation is key to help you manage any of those life circumstances that pop up and having a new baby is a huge new life circumstance.

[SPEAKER_00]: So just taking a bit of time to think about those things that are going to come up after you have a baby and setting yourself up for success in the postpartum period is really really important and a little bit of time can go a long way to help.

[SPEAKER_00]: Speaking of preparation, I would love for you to come and take my birth plan class, make a birth plan the right way to help you get prepared to have the beautiful birth experience that you deserve.

[SPEAKER_00]: The class is totally free, and I'm doing it live at the end of the month on April.

[SPEAKER_00]: I wanna say 30th of this.

[SPEAKER_00]: You can head to my website at Dr.

Nicole Rinkin's.com forward slash birth plan in order to sign up for that class registration will open.

[SPEAKER_00]: On April 15th, and the class is again on April 30th, this is a great opportunity to connect with me live, to connect with other pregnant folks.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, do check that out.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's starting to call Rankin's.com, full with slash birth plan.

[SPEAKER_00]: I cannot wait to see you there.

[SPEAKER_00]: So there you have it, please share this podcast with the friend and go ahead and remember to head over to Apple Podcast and leave me that review.

[SPEAKER_00]: And Apple Podcast, I'd like to hear what you think about this show and I'd love to do shout out and say thank you for all of the kind words that you say about all about pregnancy and birth.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that's it for this episode.

[SPEAKER_00]: Do come on back next week and remember that you deserve a beautiful pregnancy and birth.