Podcasting 2.0 for August 29th, 2025, episode 232, RF Bigot.

Hello, everybody.

Welcome once again to the official board meeting of Podcasting 2.0.

That's right.

We are an association of sorts.

We've got no bylaws, no articles of incorporation.

We don't even know what we're really doing.

But we do talk about podcasting, what it's and will always be.

We are, in fact, the only boardroom that has liquid in our glass.

I'm Adam Curry here in the heart of the Texas Hill Country and in Alabama, the man who eats LLM pot truffle for breakfast.

Say hello to my friend on the other end, the one, the only, Mr.

Jay Jones.

So, yeah, on my way, if people, a funny thing happened on my way to Doha.

Yes.

Yeah.

I'm on my way to the podcast.

The, you know, I do this show on my lunch break.

Yes.

Yes.

We are aware.

So I, my, the typical pattern is I get home at 1215.

So I have 15 minutes to get, get in the door and get some sort of lunch put together and get on the mic.

Yes.

And that usually goes off without a hitch because I'm, I'm a very habitual person and I do the same thing every day.

Beef milkshake salad, these kinds of things.

Yes.

It's the same.

Yeah.

Funny.

Well, funny how you are like that.

So I put, I put, um, I put the beef milkshake together as I usually do in the blender bottle or the blender.

Um, it's like a ninja bullet thing.

Yeah.

You know, so you, you put, you flip it upside.

It's like upside down on the blender.

I'm very familiar with the bullet concept.

Yes.

So I put, I put all my ingredients in there.

The beef milkshake is this, the beef milkshake is 12 ounces of 2% milk.

One scoop of equip chocolate beef protein powder, grass fed beef protein powder, a scoop of pure whey protein isolate, and a scoop of creatine.

Oh, creatine.

Yeah.

Creatine.

Everyone's all giddy about the creatine and three ice cubes.

That is, that has been the, that is the recipe for the beef milkshake for many years now.

Okay.

Now I'm just going to guess either one of the elements was not available or you forgot one or you put something wrong in there.

Wrong on all counts.

Okay.

I will go back in my hovel.

In order to understand what happened, you have to understand that the beef, the, the equip beef protein is, it's like, um, it's hydro, it's hydrolyzed, which means it's, it's, it's hydrolyzed.

It's a greasy thing.

Yeah.

Which means they make it where it is water.

It is liquid soluble, but it's not by nature liquid soluble.

So it would, it has, it has to be conditioned, you know?

And then, so even, even in its hydrolyzed state, it's still one, it's still kind of resistant.

It doesn't want to mix.

Like it, it doesn't want to be, it wants to clump more than anything.

Yes.

I understand.

Yeah.

You know how, you know how if you just dump, um, like cocoa powder into milk or something, it just doesn't want to mix.

You'll wind up burning your throat when you swallow that clump.

Yeah.

So, um, that's the way this stuff behaves.

So it just sort of like, before I blend it, it just sits on top.

It just kind of, it's floating on top of the milk.

And so what happens, I, I throw my ice cubes in, throw my milk in, throw the, the beef protein, protein powder in all this first on top of the milk, then the, then the whey protein, then the creatine.

I'm reaching over to get the top to put on the thing.

And as I'm reaching over, I, I hit the, the, this, I hit the open blender container and beef protein and everywhere.

It went all over the place.

The entire thing went all over the counter down behind every crevice.

And so I was like, Oh shit.

And so I run and grab some towels and stuff.

And I'm starting, I'm trying to get, and it's just in the, like, as the milk spread out really wide, the, the beef protein powder began to sort of like do its thing and sink in.

So by the time I even got to be like scrubbing it up and cleaning it up, it had formed this really, this like pasty chocolate glue glue all over the countertop.

Yeah, this is very bad.

It, I just finally had to just leave it.

I got it about halfway cleaned up.

It is a, I hope my wife does not come home midstream of the podcast.

That's exactly, you want to make sure she doesn't come, come home before you have a chance to clean it up.

I had something similar happen.

We, we got one of those, um, one shot, uh, French press deals.

Are you familiar with this?

It's like.

I don't know the one shot.

What's that?

Well, it's a plastic tube and, and it has a screw, a screw on cap on the bottom.

You put a little filter paper in there, you screw it back on, you put your coffee in and then you pour your coffee in and you, well, you have it on top of the mug and then you press down on a plunger.

So, you know, this makes a single shot espresso.

Yes.

Uh, single French press, single shot of French press.

Okay.

Okay.

So, but I had a big, big mug and so I'm pouring the hot water in.

I'm like, you know, um, this is a big mug.

I'm going to pour a little more in.

So I'm just pouring.

And it was kind of like a bottomless pit because it's obviously going into the cup and I'm not, I'm just waiting to pour it.

And then I press the plunger down.

The cup overflows, fill coffee, grinds, everything goes all, all over the counter and into the drawer underneath, which of course is Tina's junk.

We all have a junk drawer and with Tina, there's no such thing.

It's a neatly organized papers, you know, all kinds of important documents.

Oh yeah.

Oh yeah.

Yeah.

So, and that happened with her standing right there.

So I didn't have a chance to save any, there was no saving it.

You know, the papers are stuck together.

Yeah.

It's the, it's the worst when you make a mess in the kitchen and your wife finds out.

Right now, right now in my kitchen, it looks like somebody, it looks like somebody got up on the, on the counter and just took a dump.

That is basically just like this big blob of, of brown goo.

So you don't even have a lunch basically.

No, I'm, I'm, um, I had a nut.

That's why I couldn't finish cleaning it up.

Cause I had to hastily make another beef milkshake.

Oh man.

You know what made me the most angry is that the equip beef milkshake, the equip beef protein is like super expensive.

It's like 60 bucks a bag.

And I was like, man, that's like a buck.

That's like, that's like a dollar and 75 cents in on my counter.

Wow.

Wow.

No, I'm sorry, bro.

But I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm getting through.

I have turkey pepperoni, some nuts and a beef milkshake.

Yes.

Well, you do seem to have, you're not exactly the same guy every single day.

It seems like you have variety of snacks on the show.

You know, you have different kinds of nuts, different kinds of nuts, different nuts, different sandwich, right?

Right now I'm eating the planters duo, peppercorn, pistachios and Parmesan cashews.

Wow.

My stomach hurts just thinking about it.

Are you not a nuts guy?

Oh, I'm a very much a nuts guy, but not with all kinds of cheese and crap on it.

Just a nut.

Give me a nut.

I love nuts.

I'd like to fist my nuts.

I mean, I love, I love nuts.

I like all different sizes of nuts.

Yeah.

I heard that about you.

Yeah.

Like the Brazil nuts are too big though.

Yes.

I hate it when you can't get the nuts in your mouth.

Wow.

I know.

I know it's Friday.

I've had a good morning.

I had a good morning.

Yeah.

I gotta tell you're in trouble.

Yeah.

No, of course.

I'm always in trouble for something.

Hey, congratulations to Barry releasing his pod home app.

Got to get him on the show.

Did you see the pod home app?

Man, it's, it's a nice looking app.

I hadn't even had time.

I'm going to look, I'll download it right now.

Yeah.

He's really taken full advantage of, uh, uh, of the APIs.

And he has, I don't know how he gets trending.

He may be doing that himself, but he put something in called podcast pulse and it's, Oh yeah, I did see that.

Yeah.

And it's, and it's literally pod ping.

So you just see boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

Just new shows flying everywhere.

It's the talk about a discovery mechanism.

I've always loved that.

I've loved the tiles dot.

What is it?

Tiles dot pod ping dot cloud.

I think.

Yeah.

That's watching the aquarium.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's watching the aquarium.

It's so fun.

And you can see different days of the week.

I mean, if you do it at midnight, you see all the shows that update at midnight.

There's a lot of shows that automatically update at midnight and then do it on a Sunday morning.

It's like the whole church world is just boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

Everyone's updating.

It's very much so.

Yes.

Where, okay.

Where, where's the, where's the, it's maybe it's under discover.

Oh yeah.

Episode episode pulse.

Yeah.

Is it episode also that was called?

You need a premium membership.

Okay.

I'll pay you money.

You gotta get a premium baby.

You gotta get the premium membership.

Yeah.

Real time.

I'm paying you money real time, Barry.

Yeah.

Yeah.

We need Barry on the show.

We got, we got, we have to again, ask him how it's possible that he's doing all this so cheaply.

It's amazing.

Wait, it says I'm a premium member.

How can I be a premium member?

If I've never, you're the pod Sage.

Of course you're the pod stage by definition is premium.

You are premium baby.

It doesn't know.

I may have just found a bug.

No, I think he already set us up for premium.

Did you use your email address?

No.

Hmm.

He, well, he's probably in the room next door knowing Barry, he could be there.

It's a, it's a, I like the pulse.

I don't want, if, if this was some, if some Barry, if you did this somehow, I do not want your charity.

I want to pay you money.

So I, by definition, I pay for all the podcast apps that I use.

I actually used for the first time, uh, you know, podcast guru updated and then now you can connect your strike wallet.

That was a very enjoyable experience.

Oh yeah.

You just, you just tap on it and then it takes you to an, I guess an OAuth login and you type in your, you know, your, uh, your strike.me credentials.

Yeah.

Um, actually, you know, the, uh, you type in your email address, they send you, an email to verify, which is always nice.

Um, and then boom, it's done.

And, um, so I boosted this week in Bitcoin with a boost, sent a boost to Graham to see if he sees that because of course, you know, the metadata thing is all over the map.

Um, so we'll see, uh, but I'll find out next week if he got my boost and this is a, and I boosted him an extra 10,000 sats as a penalty boost for using the term pod on, on this week in Bitcoin.

Yes.

Yes.

A huge violation.

Huge violation.

Chris ought to know better.

That's just unacceptable.

Yes.

It's unacceptable.

I tell you.

Yeah.

But you know, just on hosting for a moment, you know, there's been a lot of talk in the podcast industrial complex about Riverside now offering hosting and I'm, I'm just smiling at this.

I'm just laughing because you and I both know what's going to happen.

I don't think Riverside understands what hosting is.

Yeah.

You can have an interface to upload and you know, yeah, you can, you can generate an RSS feed, but the two things of hosting are number one stats stats.

Number one is stats.

You're going to have those stats, baby.

If you don't have stats, if you don't, you can't just have a couple of a pie charts.

No, no, no, no.

You got to have all these incredibly detailed stats that ultimately mean absolutely nothing.

Everyone's got to have that that's buried to entry.

And then you need customer support.

If you don't have customer support, you're not going to retain customers.

Customer support will blow you up.

Yep.

It is.

It is the, the biggest thing because no, yeah.

How many, how many percentage of podcast hosting company customers know what they're doing?

Actually know what they're doing.

I mean, it's gotta be less than 50%.

Yeah.

I think it's low.

I know that I think rss.com, I think they have 20 people, you know, not all full-time, but they have 20 people around the world to keep a, a constant, you know, a, a constant manned station.

But yeah, that's, that's what it is.

That's what people are really paying for.

And I'm sure Barry is, you know, Barry has a lot of stuff, AI generated automatic.

And so, you know, you just kind of throw your file up there and then it spits out something generates even art and all the stuff you would want.

So he may have less of that, but I know he's very hands-on.

I do.

I think he's also, he's somehow independently wealthy.

That always helps.

He has something, I think he did like some online courses that are just making him money.

Like a, like a Fleetwood Mac album, you know, it just keeps on generating cash forever.

Yeah.

You just have, all you have, all you need is one rumors and then everything else is gold after that or tapestry.

Oh yeah, exactly.

That's all you need.

So we had a really great day this morning and I'm saying this for a reason because I think Apple is listening and they're moving closer.

You know, there's this whole conversation about how they are now incorporating tune in like some arms length tune in partnership.

Yeah.

I heard, I heard him talking about on power about it.

Yeah.

And when I was at podcast movement, uh, Teddy H, he came up to me and he said, Teddy H man, Teddy H.

He said, you know, I listened to your hello Fred station in, uh, in Apple music.

I said, what?

He says, oh yeah, no, but if it's like, Whoa.

Yeah.

Does that work?

Yeah.

If it's tune in now it's available on Apple music.

So a couple of things I'm thinking here.

One, that's an acquisition target for them because tune in has a, they have a business model.

It, I mean, I think they're a dead company, but they are a money machine because in order to get my hello Fred station on tune in, which makes it available in Sonos and, um, smart speakers, it costs 65 bucks a month and it is very expensive.

Tell me I'm wrong, but it seems like tune in has great cashflow, but probably a ton of debt.

Well, that's a good question.

Yes.

I think you're right.

Um, let's take a look.

Uh, tune in.

What was the, it's, um, who tracks that?

Uh, what's that?

What's that tech website?

Crunch.

Yes.

Tech crunch.

Thank you.

Let's take a look.

Tune in tech crunch.

They always, yeah, here we go.

Uh, uh, tech crunch.

Let me see.

They usually have a page for that.

Uh, let me see.

Tech crunch tune in investments.

I thought there was tech crunch that did that.

Yeah.

Here we go.

So let's see.

$25 million round, but that one was that that's a while ago.

I don't know.

Wait.

Ooh, no, that's 2013.

So they have, they have a lot of these as an article from December of last year saying that they've never made a profit.

Well, I think there were just people heavy, you know, cause they're, it's like one of these companies where it's really, it's a really simple business.

It's a really good one to just maintain a database of all the live radio stations.

You know, they got sidetracked and they built a whole podcasting wing and then they, they got rid of that.

Let me see.

Oh, crunch base.

That's what it is.

Hold on.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

That's what I'm looking for.

Valley investor.

Here we go.

Okay.

Uh, cloud flare, however, does, does have to verify my session to make sure I'm not some kind of scammer.

Okay.

Let's see.

Let's see.

When did they get, they've changed the interface to make it completely.

Okay.

So now if you don't pay for tech crunch, you can't see, but they've had one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10 rounds of investment.

The last one that tech crunch or the crunch base has a 12 actually is November 23rd, 2020, but I can't see the amount of money raised.

Well, I can join crunch base for free.

Hold on.

Whoa, baby.

Oh, crunch base can now access everything on my Google account.

Yay.

Continue, continue, continue.

Let me see.

What do I have?

Okay.

All right.

Next.

Okay.

Sales prospecting.

Okay.

I don't want to try it out.

This sounds like my guess is that they have, here we go.

What is it?

They've, they've raised a lot of money, have a lot of debt.

Okay.

Listen to this.

Listen to this.

Okay.

Going back to 2006 series a that's 1 .4 million.

That's just a starter.

Then they made a mistake and did a venture round at 1.6.

That really hurts your market cap.

So then in 2009, they did another series a at 500, then a series B for 852 million.

No, 852,000.

Sorry.

Then a series C for 6 million, a series D for 16 million, another venture round for 25.

Then in 2015, they raised 50 million, a series F, then a series G for 43 million.

And then undisclosed, undisclosed amount of money in 2020.

So equity is so spread out.

Nobody, nobody's going to make any money.

And they have another, another round schedule.

So their cap table is totally screwed.

So total funding, 146.6 million.

That's what James's article here says.

LinkedIn is littered with, it says LinkedIn is littered with evidence of senior employees having left tune in.

That's probably wise because their equity got so diluted that it's just completely worthless.

And so why stay around?

So they had the right idea, but they totally screwed it up, which is too bad because anyway, so back to the Apple thing.

So now, unfortunately, so there's good and bad news.

The good news is Apple is seeing the value in having online radio stations.

The bad news is they're putting it into Apple music, which I'm sure is some kind of different silo from podcasts.

And the reason I say this is today we had another great meeting, sold another Godcaster to another church who understands, Hey, we can be the radio station, the digital station in our local market.

In this case, it's Franklin, Tennessee.

And what we've put together with Godcaster is this combination of live streams, which could be a live music stream, you know, any kind of live stream and on demand.

And then we have the patent-pended technology of channel streams, which creates a live stream out of all the podcasts you have in a certain player.

And the cool thing is that we automatically generate an RSS feed that has the lit tag in it.

And this pastor, Darren, he's like, Oh, wow.

He says, this is really cool.

So now I'm a station, I'm a publisher in podcast apps.

And so of course Apple doesn't show the lit tag, but man, think of the opportunity here for Apple and even Spotify.

They're not listening.

Apple listens where they can be an outlet for digital stations that include on demand.

So the podcast, as well as the live stream through the lit tag, this is redefining radio and it's redefining it in a way that a whole different category of players, of entities can come into the space and become a modern radio station where you have the serendipity of listening.

And of course, the way we have it in the Godcaster app, when you're listening to something, it shows that we have a cookie trail back to what you're listening to.

So if you're listening to, I have a station, Adam's favorite podcast, and you're listening, if you hear podcasting 2.0, it says view this station so you can see all the other programs I have available in my station or view this program takes you right back to podcasting 2.0.

This is something really different for radio.

And I'm not going to say we designed this.

This was vibe coding all the way amongst a couple of dudes just like, yeah, I think I'll do this.

This is what radio needs to evolve into.

Yes.

At the local level.

At the local level, it's dynamite.

Yeah.

When you bring the lit tag in, I wrote that blog post about a month ago or so.

As you begin to support the new tags, you begin to blur the lines between live and on demand because it all just becomes sort of one thing in the app.

You're flipping back and forth between, I'm live now and now I'm listening to an on demand episode.

And so you're like, there's no longer this sort of stark distinction between the two experiences that you get when you have like the way it's mostly been done when you have to go, when radio stations just chop up their stream and stick and create separate podcasts.

Now you're going to have to go, I've got to go to this station's website and listen to the live stream and hit the listen live button.

But if I want to hear a past episode of something, I've got to go find their app on an app store and download that.

It's like they're two completely different experiences, but with the live item tag, they don't have to be.

It can all be in a podcast app.

And so, and so again, the good news is Apple is seeing the value of live streams, but they're putting it in the wrong app.

It needs to go into the podcasting app.

And Apple, they will support, they are going to put it in the podcast app.

I sure hope so.

I would be, if it's not, if they don't have live, if Apple doesn't have live item tag support in the main Apple podcast app within two years, I will be stunned.

Two years.

Yeah.

All right.

Mark it down.

Put it in the red book, everybody.

Two years, two years.

I mean, I just, I bet you Teddy H has, has a prototype already, already rocked.

Teddy H.

The mystery man, Teddy H.

Behind that beard.

That's right.

There's a lot going on behind that beard, people.

Yeah.

I'm with you.

I'm with you.

I believe that wholeheartedly that there, I just know it's going to happen.

Now, should we be.

It's such a good experience.

Should we be putting publisher, should these be publisher feeds of these stations that we're creating?

Or am I, am I seeing that wrong?

Doesn't, no, cause it's not their shows, right?

Right.

Yeah.

So it's just an aggregate, but man, it rocks so hard.

It's like a big aha moment when you say, oh, and now you, you have a podcast feed and you show them the feed and you open it up through, um, um, the system formerly known as episodes.fm.

Now known as Plink.

Plink.

Plink.

Yes.

Plink.

And I think Plink is actually another product.

And yeah, it is.

And you, and you show them like, oh, here's all the apps.

Like what?

Yeah.

And just click and open.

Now, of course, Apple and Spotify doesn't show the live, the live stream, but when you show it to them in a, uh, podcast guru, podverse, fountain, et cetera, their eyes go wide.

Like, wow.

Okay.

So yeah.

And these episodes, they are, they update automatically.

What?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Plink.

Sorry about that, Nathan.

I didn't mean to besmirch you with a, with a competitor's name.

The, the church, yeah.

Eric said the church could have a publisher feed.

That's, that's right.

Yeah.

The church for their content.

And that's where, that's really where it should be on the publisher dashboard.

Yeah.

That you'd be able to spin those up.

But yeah, I mean, I think that's just like, um, I think, I think I'm re I'm really encouraged by the momentum that I'm starting to see because it feels like people are no longer like, podcasting 2.0.

That's why don't you get a focus group together and see that this thing's crap.

Nobody wants this stuff.

Like, I mean, that's what we were hearing two, three years ago.

Oh, I heard it.

I heard it in podcast movement now, but now people are just like, Hey, we need some fresh, we need fresh new things in podcasting.

I mean, like the, the apps already have everything.

They have the basics.

They just, everybody's already got everything.

Like there has to be some new ideas.

And I'm really encouraged to see that there are these, these, the 2.0 tags that, you know, some of them have been around for four years now, five years going on, that they're starting to come to, to be actually put into use.

And we taught, you know, we've talked about this a hundred times.

You can't just look at usage metrics and say this particular tag was a failure.

Now you can look at it structurally and say, okay, it's a failure.

Like with the image tag, with the images tag, the previous one, you can say, okay, this, this thing just doesn't do enough to justify its existence.

It can be better.

And so, you know, let's re-engineer it to be a better, to just do a better, to do a better job.

Now that's, that's a thing that, that makes sense.

But if you just look at usage metrics and say, well, this tag is, is not being used very much.

Therefore we need to deprecate it or something like that.

That to me, that is not a strong argument because it can sometimes take a very, very long time.

Years, years, years.

I would also recommend that just because I see the market and I see the response hosting companies consider marketing, hyperlocal podcasting.

You know, everyone has their own, their marketing message.

Everyone has different ways of selling podcasting to potential people, but it is, it was amazing to me.

Potential people?

Potential, potential customers.

Now they may be people, but you know, they may also be customers.

Right.

That is amazing to me.

I just like the term potential people.

That's show title.

Potential people.

There we go.

No, what?

Potential people.

There's a light bulb that I've seen go on over and over again when I say, Hey, you know, you don't have to be Joe Rogan, just the podcast.

You can do something for your town, for your club, for your your group, for your church, for your school.

And it doesn't have to be this, you know, you don't have to be going for swinging for the fences.

In fact, you're unlikely to succeed.

But people don't even think of podcasting this way.

They think, Oh, you know, I gotta be like Rogan.

I gotta be like, I gotta be a BB.

It's a light bulb that goes on that is baffling because it seems so obvious to us.

You know, we've been around for a while, but when you, when you say to somebody, they go, Oh, really?

Yes, really.

You can do that.

Oh, I never thought of it that way.

So, yeah.

And there's a pretty good chance that you will get local people to sponsor your endeavor.

People who you already know.

Really?

Yeah.

Give it a try.

I have email after email from people saying, Hey, I heard, I heard it, man.

I set up a podcast and, and I'm doing my, you know, talking with the guy from the commerce, what is it?

The commerce board or the commerce, the chamber of commerce in our town, Virginia.

And people really like it because businesses are listening and people who want to know what's on the calendar, the event calendar.

It's funny.

You know, I copy pasted my hyperlocal podcast .com primer that I wrote, I don't know, more than a year ago, I think.

Yeah.

And I put it into sub stack and I hadn't even finished it.

I'm like, I'm just, you know, just I've done like two things on this sub stack ever.

And I've had it for a couple of years.

I didn't even know you had a sub stack.

Exactly.

And I just hit publish and like, Oh crap.

It didn't carry over the links.

You know?

So I'll add those in later.

All of a sudden I hear James on pod news.

Adam Curry has published a hyperlocal podcast primer.

Like what, what, what?

So somehow, somehow by hitting publish on sub stack that showed up on his radar, I thought that was rather interesting.

And I know I didn't do anything.

I'll just hit publish.

And that was a mistake.

I should have kept that as a draft and I still haven't put the links in.

Hyperlocal.

So there's a, uh, I don't know.

Do you know the business journals?

Do you know this, this outfit, uh, biz journal, B I Z with a, you know, B I Z journals.com.

No, no.

So it's like a, they're like a collection of, um, local business.

It's an online magazine, but they're, but they're focused on each individual region, you know, like city.

So Birmingham has one.

The Birmingham, the Birmingham business journal, the Dallas business journal, blah, blah, blah.

Well, then they, they sort of wrap, wrap all their stories and they have, they have reporters and stuff for them.

And they sort of wrap all this content up into biz journals.com.

And then you see sort of like a view of everything, but then, but you know, you subscribe, they have subscribers in each, you know, you subscribe to your local version of this thing, but then they also had to have advertisers from local businesses and that kind of stuff.

And it's a viable, good business.

So, because you, because you're, I think when you focus, cause when you focus on local, um, there's always a lot of value.

There's a lot more value to mo in local.

What am I trying to say?

When it comes to advertising, there's a lot more value in a local thing than there is in some sort of national advertised.

Cause no, most what's the numbers is something like, you know, how many tens of thousands of small businesses are there in, in this country in talking about us century, but I'm sure it's this way all over the place.

Um, there's just always a hundred X more local businesses than there are regional or national businesses.

There's just, the numbers are just so much larger as far as the total.

So if you, if you focus on local, you're always going to have a much more stable advertising base than if you try to do some national deal.

So if you, you know, if you start a hyper local podcast, I'm sure you can find sponsors.

And I know you can, because you know, if you, it, there's always going to be the local car dealership and the local restaurants and the local law law firms.

And the, I mean, they're just, they're always going to be plenty of those sources of, of sponsorship and, and advertising to support a decent local business.

And I mean, if you're, if you're a church looking for a sponsorship for your podcast, local content, you know, there's going to be a local Christian bookstores.

It'll cover your costs for real.

It'll cover your costs.

Definitely.

And it's just so much ease.

It seems so much easier than trying to do some sort of national or ambiguously non -regional podcast.

Oh, and it's more fun too, because people, people in your hood will be listening.

It really is.

Like we had this, um, I mean, everybody's got some version of, of, of a local celebrity that, you know, for us, like we have, uh, for years we had cousin Cliff.

He was the guy on local TV that like, he was like, he would dress up like a clown and do the kid's show in the morning.

Yeah.

And creepy, but okay.

Yeah.

Oh yeah.

He's totally creepy.

And then, but, but people support, you know, he always had advertising just always, he always people, he had the local car dealership was his main guy, you know, main supporter.

And it just, if you're trying, trying to be the next cousin, Cliff just seems like a lot more straightforward proposition than trying to be the next Joe Rogan.

Of course, of course.

Absolutely.

But I mean, it's, it's so, it's so, it's just so easy to pull that trigger now.

And start, you know, with, with, with how quick it is to fire it, to spin up a podcast.

They're, they're just so you can be with the way hosting companies are now you can be live with a podcast and published in all platforms within a day.

I, I don't know how I got here from the biz journals, but Alabama is, has, is in the, has three cities in the top 10 of most dangerous cities in America.

Oh yeah.

Birmingham is like top three.

No, no, you're no, you've dropped out of the top three.

You're number seven.

Bessemer is number one.

That's a city right next to Birmingham.

Mobile, mobile is number two.

Birmingham dropped down at number seven.

What did Trump come to town?

Did he bring in the national guard?

Did he clean stuff up for you?

No, we, yeah, we, it's, it's all, it's funny.

Cause all those numbers, those, the, the crime statistics for, for Birmingham, all the, all the trouble is usually within like one geographic area.

It's like, it's like, it's like one little pocket of Birmingham.

Yeah.

That's the place, if you've ever watched The Wire, that's the place where eventually it'll burn down.

And then the, before you know it, you got a stadium or luxury condos.

It's funny.

Cause we don't like the city of Birmingham, it feels super safe.

Like it, but the crime statistics are just like, we, as a Birmingham resident, you look there, you look at the crime statistics.

You're like, really?

Wow.

That's, I'm not feeling that, you know.

Well, I'm sure you live in the very safe white part of town, Dave Jones.

Absolutely not.

I absolutely do not live in the safe white part of town.

We live literally like downtown, downtown, downtown.

Yeah.

No, you're fine.

I think it's, it's probably every city has, or of any size has, has the, the, the area where you just, it's just prone to crime, you know?

So just two quick words about video.

First of all, James Cridland is now doing, I guess he finally got a roadcaster.

I wonder if the Aussies gave one to him for free.

They've never, they've never given me anything.

They give all the YouTubers, all the free gear.

He's probably an advisor.

Well, yeah, they don't, I love their products.

I buy them.

I love their products.

We still have to figure out if we can do the direct connection thing.

You know, I, I, so I got the most recent update and I, I tried it with a web browser.

And, you know, so you scan the QR code on the screen, that's the link, you send that to somebody, they can log in.

Works beautifully once.

That second time's a killer.

Yeah.

Every single time after that, it would be like call, I hit answer.

And then, you know, and then it just wouldn't connect.

Even though on the phone, on the browser, it said connected and it was sending packets.

So I don't know.

Maybe I'll reboot the machine.

Try it again.

When we, we will try it.

People think it's a good system.

I'm very partial to clean feed though.

I'm a very loyal client.

That means I'll have to plug my ethernet cable back into my roadcaster.

No, it did it on wifi.

It worked on wifi for me.

Please.

Oh yeah.

You don't have wifi.

I'm sorry.

You're against wifi.

You're anti-wifi.

You hate wifi.

You hate wifi.

You're anti-RF.

You're an RF bigot.

RF bigot.

RFK.

Um, anyway, so James has started doing a video version of, um, of the pod news daily report and which of course I watched, you know, and, and he's, I know it's just testing as a long time listener and sat streamer of pod news.

I hate it.

And the, and the reason why is because.

I just like it when you haste.

I really hate it because his whole read is different.

You know, watch the video and he's looking at the script off to the side.

So either he needs a teleprompter, which is a whole nother can of worms, uh, or some, you know, has to position the camera or something.

So he's not even looking at the camera and that's all right.

I don't want to see the video.

I want to listen to it.

And his audio production was, I love his audio production.

He's more close mics.

Um, it's a different type of read, uh, and that's all gone now.

And it just feels kind of a little soulless, uh, what it is now.

And he's, he's without soul.

Yeah.

You shall not podcast without soul, you know?

So it's just like, the audio product is really, really, really good.

And I really like it, especially when, when he forgets to edit a pickup.

That's the funniest.

Yeah.

Is it as, is it on?

Oh yeah.

Here it is on YouTube.

It's just, it's just, it's just a different read, which is, which is understandable.

No, it's, but to me it, uh, it subtracts from the value of that.

I got from the audio, the pure audio production.

I like, I like hearing a report.

Give me a report.

I want that report.

Here's pod news report Monday time for some tech stuff.

I like it.

Do you, do you think it's, do you think it's because he's looking at the camera?

Well, but I'm just, I mean, he, it's an edited product.

He, or however he does it.

I don't, I presume that he does pickups and other things, but he's focused really on the read.

And now he's further from the mic.

He's, um, you know, it's, it's just a different read when you're, when you're reading in one, cause he has to do it all in one go.

He's, he can't edit the video.

He's trying to do it all live to tape, which is fine.

But I like the other, I like the other way as an audio products.

I, I'm not going to watch the video now.

I don't, I just want to hear the information.

I just want the information, man.

Yeah.

So the second thing, go ahead.

Now, do you remember when we, you know, I used to record myself as, as, as a way to test in a tube with alternate enclosure.

Yes.

And I would test them.

I would record myself doing this show and I could fire that back up and we could do HLS.

Yeah.

You do whatever you want to do, bro.

Okay, bro.

I'm not going to participate in that brother.

I'm not, I'm not going to participate in that.

Maybe I'll, maybe I'll do it.

Maybe I'll fire up another feed.

Yeah.

Okay.

Um, I'm just trying to help.

Well here to be helpful.

So here's the second piece of the news, two surprising facts about platform consumption in 2025 from sounds profitable.

Did you see this?

Well, essentially the stats confirm suspicions about YouTube.

It's not necessarily about being on video.

YouTube is just a really good app for podcast consumption.

The app provides great search and discovery community engagement.

But, uh, here is the stat that might surprise you dispels the myth that video is eating the world.

It is certainly true that a slight majority of YouTube past podcast consumers say they watch more than half of their podcasts.

19% say they watch 51 to 75 % plus the 34% who say they watch more than 75.

But that means that just only under half use YouTube to listen.

Even if the podcast is a video podcast, people are listening to podcasts.

So I think it's the definition of what a podcast is.

Well, I've given up on that conversation.

No, no, I don't mean it in that way.

Like I mean something different by that.

I realized what it sounded like, but what I'm saying is something different.

What I'm saying is like, I think that when you, a podcast is a particular thing, like, and I'm not even talking about RSS at this moment.

Like what I'm saying is that if I say I'm listening to a podcast, it means something specific.

It means like a particular type of content that is geared toward a listening experience.

I like James's description where he says something to do with your ears while your eyes are busy.

I think the most of the podcast consumption falls under that category.

It is something you're listening to while you're occupied with something else.

Nobody just sits down on the couch and listens to a podcast and stares at the wall.

Agreed.

Like you're listening to a podcast while you, you listen to a podcast in the same way you would listen to an audio book.

It's just, it's a, it's an experience that is, it's a sidecar experience.

It's a thing that you do alongside another thing.

Whereas YouTube videos are not like that.

YouTube videos are something that you are intentionally watching like you watch a television or, or some other experience.

And this, the reason I'm, okay, so the reason I'm getting, I'm digging in on this is because this has been, this was a topic of debate.

He, a slightly heated topic of debate when we defined the video medium.

So for the podcast medium tag, there's all, you know, there's different, different mediums.

You have audio book, music, podcast.

Right now, right now you have radio.

You have, you have various mediums meant to define, this is the content, this is the type of content that is being delivered.

And so one of those video, one of those mediums is, it's still in the spec.

One of those mediums is video and the podcast medium tag is designed to deliver a different experience in an app, right?

It is, this is, it's not defining the media format.

It's defining the media type.

And that's confusing, but yes, I remember this.

I remember this conversation.

Yeah.

And so, and I, and I think this is becoming important again, because the, because the medium is a distinct, is a distinctive.

The, if you have pod news daily, that is a podcast medium.

If you have Joe Rogan's video, excuse me, let me make a different example.

If you have the, let's say the day, some show by the daily wire.

Is that Dave, is that Dave Rubin?

He's on, he's on daily wire.

He's on daily with Shapiro daily wire.

I can't keep up.

Ruben, I think is Ruben, Ruben may be blaze.

I think daily route.

Okay.

Let's say Ben Shapiro show that is even though it can be an audio.

If you, you can also publish it as a video medium in the video medium is a specific experience.

You're watching it's, it's what you're doing is you're telling the PR you're telling the audience this, what this type of thing is designed for.

This is going to be an audio book experience.

This is going to be a podcast experience.

This is going to be a video experience, whatever, whatever the main experience experience is supposed to be.

That's what you're putting into the video medium.

So I think this is going to become more important as we get into HLS stuff so that we can define in the, in the feed, what this thing is supposed to be.

And ideally what you're defining is the uh, most appropriate experience, right?

Because what you, you can live, you can have, you can have music like a music album delivered by in an RSS feed without defining a medium of music and it'll still work.

It just won't be a great experience because the tracks will be all out of order.

They'll, they'll mark themselves as played every time you finish it so that you go back in the, now the episode, now the track is gone.

It's a real clumsy, weird experience.

So you define, you say, okay, this is a music medium so that the app knows, okay, don't do all that stuff.

The app knows to download all the tracks, which are, you know, items in the, in the feed, download all the tracks and don't do all the normal podcast-y type stuff to it.

Treat it like, treat it like a music album.

And so the same thing is going to happen, needs to happen with the video equals medium equals video.

Now the app knows, okay, this is a video first experience.

And that means something.

That means that the person, the intended, the audience is intended to watch this thing.

Their eyes are going to be on the app.

The, so there should be like a more of an emphasis on what is happening on the screen, like maybe chat or comments.

That it is a visual first experience.

And I, like, I think we need to keep that in mind as people are talking about HLS support, specifically video HLS support, because that's what that thing was made to be.

Agreed.

Agreed.

Do you see, like, you see what I mean?

I mean, it's, because it seems dumb.

I agree.

It seems dumb.

Why do you describe medium equals video?

The video is just the format of the file being delivered and it can be a video podcast.

Well, yeah, but I think that's the reason I started thinking about this was what you were just defining, what you were just saying about actual consumption patterns is that it's what we knew all along, that podcasts are a thing that you listen to while you're doing other, the pod, the experience of listening to a podcast is a particular consumption form.

Yes.

And the experience of watching a video, a YouTube style video thing is not the same as that.

And you want to be able to define to your audience, this is what I, this is the way I intend this thing to be consumed.

It doesn't mean you have to, you could do something you could do different.

You can turn your screen off on YouTube and just listen to it, but it's kind of lame.

And the same thing with this other thing is like, well, you know, you can, you can, you can consume this HLS video content in your podcast player in some other way besides watching it.

That's fine, but it's just not going to be that great.

Hmm.

You really hate this video talk, don't you?

It's just like, this is painful for you.

Well, I just feel bad that everyone somehow believes that, that people just think a podcast is video and it's, it doesn't matter.

I mean, it doesn't even matter that my show is not on Spotify.

People don't care.

Oh, it's not on Spotify.

Okay.

I'll use this other app.

That's fine.

They want the content.

If they want the content, they will come to your house and ask for a CD.

It's true.

It's true.

Yeah.

I mean, they'll do anything.

So it ultimately comes down to the content.

This is what I've noticed with the Godcaster.

It's like, where is it?

Oh, it's on the church homepage.

Okay.

I'll just go there.

I don't care.

I don't care.

It's all the same.

People don't know they have a web browser anymore.

I got the DuckDuckGo.

You know, I just type in what I want and then, then I'm there.

I don't know what's a web browser.

I don't know.

It's just, I got DuckDuckGo or I got Google.

I used to use Google.

Now I use DuckDuckGo.

I hear it's safer.

This is literally the conversations I have.

And these are not old fogey people.

These are 35 year olds.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, have you noticed Google is just, um, like I'm seeing all these horror stories of, um, websites.

There's traffic are down 60, 70%.

Oh, of course.

Because there's no more organic searchers.

Uh, no clicks.

No, everybody's using search.

I mean, Google, their money is, is not actually on Google search anymore.

I know I I'm saying that as a blanket statement, I don't actually know that, but I know that, um, people are just getting answers, right?

Yeah.

They're getting answers and yeah.

I mean, anthropic and, and Grok and others, they will show you, okay, I looked at 20 websites.

And if you go back, you can then say, all right, and let me click on this.

Sometimes it's a little icon.

Nobody's ever going to do that.

No, they just take the answer.

Like, oh, that's the answer.

Uh, SEO is dead.

Everything is dying.

What Google's just using all they they're just using all the content they scraped into their large language model to give the answer directly on their search result page.

Exactly.

So that you don't have to click through the actual website.

Like I heard somebody say, or somebody say the other day when they, when they automated the blue collar jobs, nobody cared.

But when, now, when they're now that they're automating the white collar jobs, everybody's losing their mind.

It's like, yeah, it's true.

But I mean, you, they, I don't really understand the, I don't want to say legality because it's not really, I mean, these, these behemoth companies just do whatever they want.

They don't, they don't care and they don't ask anybody's permission.

No.

Oh, remember that it's even worse.

It's like, no, no, that's all fair use.

The internet has different rules.

Yeah.

Right.

Was that the Microsoft guy?

If you, if you just type in a, like a typical developer question, um, uh, difference between, uh, I'll, I'll type something like this.

JavaScript difference between client, uh, client with an offsite with, uh, yeah, I know what that's with.

Yes.

So you type in something like that.

You're going to get nowadays, you're going to get a result, an answer from AI right in Google search result page at the very top.

Yep.

And right underneath it will be the first hit will be a stack overflow answer that all the Google's LLM has just reworded and played right back to you.

Well, um, so that's why stack, I think stack overflow, I'm not sure, but Reddit, that's why they're a public company and doing quite well is because they said, no, you can't scrape us.

You can buy it from us.

And so Reddit it's whole business model is on selling the content generated by its users.

Here's this, here's the Microsoft guy, uh, Microsoft AI CEO LMNOP with respect to content that is already on the open web.

The social contract of that content since the nineties has been that it is fair use.

Anyone can copy it, recreate with it, reproduce with it.

That has been freeware.

If you like, that's been the understanding.

There's a separate category where a website or a publisher or a news organization had explicitly said, do not scrape or crawl me for any other reason than indexing me so that other people can find that content.

That that's a gray area.

And I think that's going to work its way through the courts.

Bull crap.

Yeah, right.

Yeah, sure.

That's the arrogance though.

Yeah.

Like, Oh yeah, no, that's the social contract buddy.

Well now, now, okay.

So like the example you gave of, um, um, uh, Reddit.

So that, that makes sense for Reddit that they could, that they could sort of pivot into, into chart and being a content farm for the LLMs and still make a pretty good living.

That is not going to be the case for, for a site like stack overflow.

No, these LLMs are going to destroy stack overflow.

It's going to disappear.

I think that they already had that controversy.

I think people were, uh, leaving stack overflow or, or locking their accounts or something.

Let me see stack, uh, something like that.

Stack overflow, angry, angry users, AI LLM question mark.

Okay.

Let's see.

Yes.

Uh, you know, there was stack overflow bands users on mass for rebelling against open AI partnership users ban for deleting answers to prevent them from being used to train chat GPT.

This happened about a year ago.

They made a deal with open AI.

Yeah.

Did they get paid out of that deal?

Oh, of course.

Of course they do.

How much I wonder.

I don't know if that was, if that was disclosed stack overflow, open AI deal.

Let's see.

Let's see what we get.

Uh, API partnership with stack overflow.

Let's see if, if anyone has any numbers on it, I don't think there's numbers.

Eric's right.

It's too late.

It's too late to, you can't pivot after the fact.

Once they have the content, it's already in the model.

It's just done.

It's all, it was already there.

Yeah.

They're just having an, an argument for argument's sake, but it was already done.

Yeah.

And once it's in, I mean, and that's just open AI.

I mean, if it's in, you know, Lama or one of these other ones, I mean, you're just, you're screwed.

You're just screwed.

And the thing that there's like a cutoff point where, um, once the answers become dependable enough to where you don't really go to those other sites anymore, then the content, then the, the, the production of new content to answer new answers, just to answer new questions just stops.

Yeah.

Because nobody, what will happen is people will go, they'll try to find the answer to a question, a problem they're having the AI won't be able to answer it completely.

And then they'll just give up and go do something else.

Like there's not a, whereas in the past, like you, you would just be opposed to different sites.

You would have this discussion going about how to solve this problem and you would eventually land on an answer most of the time.

But I think this, this new paradigm, the fact that the answer is so readily available through an LLM result now means that they are going, the net effect is it's going to basically freeze everything in time.

There's going to come a point, you know, it's probably already passed where there's just not going to be any more answers to new questions because there's no play because the LLM can't generate new content.

It can only scrape what's already been, what's already out there.

And everything's going to be frozen around 24, 2024, 2024 timeline.

Yes.

Yeah.

I think you're right.

And of course I should actually start posting my vibe, my vibe coded code so the LLMs can ingest that and they'll collapse the model even faster.

Yeah.

I've already blocked, like I'm blocking all the scrapers.

Yeah.

Do you seeing a lot of what you consider to be LLM traffic?

Yeah, quite a bit.

I mean, we, we, you know.

Hey, we should sell that data, man.

Yeah.

I'm, I'm, I'm blocking AI crawler bots all over the place.

Like I'm seeing it's, it's really hurting like small niche websites.

Oh yeah.

Like I'm, there's a really good website that I use a lot called Ford fortification, F O R D.

It's for old Ford truck people.

And tons and tons.

Like this thing's been around forever.

I don't know, 15 years.

It looks like it.

I'm looking at it right now.

It still has that website builder template.

I'm surprised it doesn't have blink tags.

It's marquee.

Marquee.

Yes.

Yeah.

Let's see.

Click on forums.

Yes.

Oh, it actually came up this time.

It goes down the forums.

It's all PHP BB forms.

Yeah.

It goes down multiple times a day.

Yeah.

And I know what it is.

It's the AI crawlers.

They're just killing it.

Yeah.

And this website, if you're an old Ford truck person, this website has answers to almost everything you could possibly imagine.

It is like the Bible of, of 60 sixties to seventies Ford trucks.

Yeah.

Here's the first post.

Whenever I try to access from the link on the homepage, the following error occurs, internal server error.

The server encounter internal error or misconfiguration was unable to complete your request.

It used to work back in 2019 all the time.

What's going on with you guys?

Yeah.

Whenever you see a view topic dot PHP question mark, you know that that's going to be in trouble.

That's the, that's the thing is they're, they're just the, these, the scrapers are just hurt.

They're killing things.

It's so sad.

It's bad because they want, they want the answer.

They're pilfering all of the, the content off of this site and it's just, it's gross.

Yeah.

I'm angry about it.

As you should be.

Yes.

Especially for the Ford community, the Ford flatbed bed truck community.

But, but luckily Microsoft sent me an email this morning about new features in notepad.

Oh, do tell.

Do they have a, is that little, that irritating icon popping up the co-pilot?

Yeah.

You know, I don't know how Microsoft is the largest company in the world, $4 trillion market cap.

And the things they do make absolutely no sense.

They're a completely schizophrenic company.

I don't even, I've never, to my knowledge, received an email from Microsoft.

So I don't know how I got on any sort of list.

And the first time I've ever received an email from Microsoft, it's about new features in notepad.

How does that even, what features do you need to add?

It's notepad.

The beauty of notepad is just notepad.

Notepad is supposed to have the following action items, file edit, format, view, and help.

It's got tabs now.

No, I just, Ludwig von Mises talked about the crackup boom.

It feels like we're living through the crackup boom.

The crackup boom.

Yeah.

It's, you know, like it's a monetary phenomenon where things begin to get so expensive that that's when things begin to break down because of the, it's things because it's as inflation begins to accelerate, the cracks begin to form.

But this feels like a sort of like a technology version of the crackup boom where AI has just caused the whole thing to fracture.

Nobody even knows what they're doing anymore.

The crackup boom?

Yeah.

I've not heard of this.

I like it.

It's a, it's in, I think it's in human action.

He defines it.

The crackup boom is a term in Austrian economics coined by Ludwig von Mises characterized by hyperinflation and a flight from a collapsing currency into real assets.

Meanwhile, if, if there was someone out there, I've asked comic strip blogger this multiple times, but he could never make it happen.

Maybe it was just too early in the, in the life cycle of large language models, but take our database.

You can download it, follow the links to transcripts, ingest, ingest, ingest for a couple of months and create the best kick ass podcast discovery, large language model on the planet earth.

Absolutely.

Because, you know, if I type in, if I go to Grok, for instance, without using the term, no agenda, let's see, uh, find three podcasts, podcasts, and give me their URLs that discuss news media by two middle aged men.

I'm trying to describe no agenda without saying no agenda by two middle aged men who podcast twice a week.

Now, is that enough description to find no agenda?

You want me to ballpark me to add something?

Uh, one of, uh, one of them is a journalist, but must be a journalist and the, the other a DJ.

Okay.

Let's see what Grok does.

Super Grok.

I'm sorry.

It's not just Grok.

It's super Grok.

Okay.

The request is to find three podcasts with news and media topics.

It's thinking Dave.

It's thinking each podcast should be hosted by two middle aged men, one, a journalist, the other a DJ.

It's still thinking it's going, they must broadcast twice a week.

And the host should be between 40 and 60 years old.

Let's search for podcasts matching this specific description to meet the request.

I can see it looking at podcast.apple .com, open.spotify.com, podcast.feedspot, youtube.com.

It has 20 others.

Initial initial search results didn't find much directly relevant.

So we need to dig deeper.

Oh, hold on to dig deeper.

A new search query is being crafted.

Podcasts hosted by a journalist and DJ discussing news and media twice a week with middle aged mid twice with middle aged men included.

Now let's do is browsing.

Oh, it's going too fast for me.

Is that it's just flipping through websites.

It's doing all kinds of stuff.

What is happening?

And remember, I also asked for the URLs because I know that I've, I've tried this before and it will give me URLs to things that don't, that don't exist.

Yes.

Um, is this agentic?

Is this actually doing web searches in the background?

Yes.

It's agentic AI.

Yes.

Part of the problem.

Yes.

Here it is.

Some podcasts like the rest is politics, discuss politics, but lack a DJ host screen grab hosted by Michael Schneider and Joe Adelian covers TV commentary.

Let's consider radio shows as many deep as many have DJ.

So it's never going to find it.

It's just not going to find and think of the cycles.

How much compute am I using here?

This is such a, this is such a, this goes, this, this is, this is goes nowhere.

It's pathetic.

Oh my goodness.

It's still thinking.

And think, do you want with agentic stuff as a platform owner?

If you have some sort of website, do you really want a gentic LLM powered software sort of crawling all over your website trying to do stuff?

No, but it creeps me out to no extent.

No, but we were literally making the entire database available.

I mean, hello.

Yeah.

FTP anybody.

It's still thinking Dave is still thinking now.

It's never, it'll never stop.

It's now it's on NPR.org WNYC.org.

It's got 30 websites.

It's now crawling, crawling.

NBC.

Is that what you said?

NBC?

No, not, uh, no.

It, well, it already scrolled off.

I can't see.

Oh my goodness.

Have you ever seen one of these things just go into like a nonsense loop?

So if you go, if you use open, um, like I use, um, uh, open web UI, do you use, I think you've used that, right?

Open web UI.

It lets you have access like, Oh, Lama.

It lets you have access to all the different models.

Yes.

Yes.

I have.

Yes.

So it'll show you nine.

That's where I have.

Okay.

Yeah.

It gives you a little dropdown box.

When you ask a question, you can drop the box down and this little wedge under the question, it'll show you all the things that it's doing internally.

Yes.

That's what, that's what I was just reading.

Yeah.

That's a little wedge.

Yeah.

Like I was using deep seek a few weeks ago.

Um, actually as part of my day job to develop, um, some software and it started like debating with itself about how it was going to answer the question and it went off the rails.

It, it, I just let it run just to see what was going to happen.

It was talking to itself for three hours and it devolved, devolved, devolved into where it was just like in a loop.

It was in a loop and it was getting more, it was complete.

It was like watching entropy in front of like display itself.

So super grok thought for three minutes and 13 seconds.

I was unable to find three podcasts that exactly matched all the criteria.

Each hosted by two middle aged men, one, a journalist, the other DJ discussing news and media releasing episodes twice a week.

Despite searching various podcast lists, directories and web sources, no exact match has turned up.

That said, here are three podcasts that share some similarities hosted by two men discussing news, politics, media, with at least one having a journalistic background or releasing episodes twice a week.

They deviate from the journalist plus DJ host requirement may be of interest.

Well, what do you think these are?

I'm sure it's just complied.

They're probably made up.

No, no, they actually exist.

The rest, the rest is politics, the news agents and Pod Save America.

Well, you could not be further from the results.

None of those meet the criteria.

None of them.

It's unbelievable.

Yeah.

It's a good disaster.

It's sad.

It's sad.

I tell you, it's just sad.

Anyway, but look at the opportunity, though.

Everyone's looking for a podcast, man.

We need discovery.

Well, here's your opportunity.

Apps, a podcast, a podcast centric LLM based on the index would be amazing.

That's a that's a niche.

But, you know, somebody has to find.

But see, that's the problem is they have to train the whole model on it.

It's not working with agentic A.I.

clearly.

No, no, no.

That's that's a train wreck.

Now, if anybody wants to do that.

Hey, man, I'll hook you up.

I'll give you the entire database.

I'll talk about the full thing with all the episodes and everything.

The 200 gig download.

OK, what is the best podcast in the universe?

How about that?

Let's just try that.

Let's see the best podcast in the universe.

It's a pretty broad question.

There there is an answer.

There is an answer, of course.

Do you want to know the answer?

What is the best podcast in the universe?

No agenda show.

Why this American life is the best podcast in the universe, apparently the one we can't, the one we can't index because they block us with their WordPress site.

That is categorically not the best podcast in the universe.

Hilarious.

All those high paid guys are all going to grok now for some reason.

Two hundred million dollar A.I.

experts.

If A.I.

is so smart, why do you have to hire kids for one hundred million dollars?

Explain me that.

Explain me that, please.

What say you?

No, I'm totally on board with this.

I think if I would look, I was thinking about that very thing today is how to train an LLM on the index.

Hey, we could do it, man.

But the training part is hard because you got that's the part I don't understand.

Well, because it's cost a lot of compute and a lot of money.

OK, but we can, of course, ask.

Tell me about Taylor Swift's wedding ring.

Oh, yeah, that that's a that's a no brainer.

That's immediate.

Yeah.

Let's see.

Here we go.

Thinking.

OK.

Oh, it's going to Vogue.

Oh, yeah.

Boom.

There it is.

Design and features.

Yes.

Oh, yeah.

There you go.

It's got everything.

The sparkle, the overall style, the estimated value.

Oh, yeah.

But you want that.

It's there.

No, no question asked.

We're good to go.

We did get some feedback.

Um, let's see who who sent Leslie Joyce sent this.

Adam and Dave, can you two spend some podcasting to auto time talking about the difference between pod being an RSS cloud?

Both seem to be great ways to conserve energy and limit traffic from here.

They seem redundant, but I'm sure I'm missing details as I'm not a coder.

Thank you for your time, Leslie Joyce.

Let's spend just a few minutes.

So.

You could you could you could lay out three different ways to do immediate feed updates, and these don't have to be pod podcast specific digits are all three of these work with just RSS.

Pod ping.

RSS cloud.

And WebSub, which used to be called PubSubHubbub.

RSS cloud and WebSub are very similar.

I mean, they're almost identical.

Not sure exactly what happened there.

I don't know why.

I don't know why we needed it.

You know, RSS cloud was developed by Dave Weiner.

WebSub, I think, was mostly developed by Julian Genestow.

But and I'm sure I think there was clearly other people involved in PubSubHubbub as well.

But so there but they're really true.

They're truly almost identical.

They both are a subscription mechanism.

So what you have, the idea is you have a hub and the hub is a server that maintains a subscription list.

And if a client system wants to know when a particular feed gets updated, you can send a message to the hub with a subscription request and say, I want to be pinged.

I want to get a notification when this RSS feed updates.

Right.

And there's a challenge thing that happens that goes back and forth where you get a challenge code and then you have to respond to the challenge code as a verification mechanism.

And once you once you go back and forth and go through that handshake, now you're on the subscription list for a certain number of hours or days.

Then if that is over, there's the problem right there.

Yes.

Yeah, exactly.

The subscription, the maintaining subscriptions to things just doesn't scale big enough.

Because you have to re-subscribe every single time.

You got to constantly re-subscribe and you have to, and both sides have to be online at all times.

The hub has to be online, up and running.

Actually, all three parties need to be online.

The hub has to be up and running.

The publisher has to be sending notifications to the hub and the receiver has to be online waiting for the webhook.

So everybody has to be up and running constantly all the time or else the message gets dropped.

Podping is different than both of those.

Podping uses the Hive blockchain.

So it uses a set of API servers that hold the Hive blockchain.

And so whenever a podping is sent, that update with the feed URL in it is written to the blockchain, to this public blockchain.

Now you can have, as long as the update messages are being sent and written to the blockchain, then the clients that are reading the podpings back to see when the updates have happened, they can do that anytime.

They don't have to be online waiting for a webhook.

They can just go back and walk backwards through the blockchain and see every update that's ever happened.

So that's the difference.

A beautiful, beautiful description.

By the way, I entered the same query into chat GPT and I repeat, find three podcasts, give me their URLs, discuss news media by two middle-aged men who podcast twice a week.

One must be a journalist, the other a DJ, and the number one is no agenda.

Now, when you look at the quick summary table, podcast name, no agenda, host, Adam Curry, John C.

Dvorak, focus or genre, news and media deconstruction, scheduled twice a week, Thursdays and Sundays, journalist, no, DJ, no.

Isn't that interesting?

So we're not a journalist or a DJ.

Well, I mean, technically that's accurate.

Yeah.

Okay.

Because especially since booster gram ball is no longer on the air, you're not DJing.

I guess too many podcasts, brother.

Yeah.

Another one is coming.

Oh yeah.

You and you and pastor Jimmy.

Yep.

Yep.

The story is that one in the, when's that one in the hopper?

We're going to record our first one next week.

Oh, nice.

Yeah.

There'll be no agenda with Jesus.

Nice.

Okay.

Let's thank some people here.

We didn't get a lot of boost during the show.

We didn't get any boost this week except for CSB.

We got one.

Really?

Yeah.

I wonder what's going on.

I know Bitcoin price drops.

Oh no, no.

I can't spend that.

I got to buy him by the dip.

I was buying the dip, the dip.

Uh, but Martin Linus Kogue always comes in 1701.

I got an idea for a hyperlocal podcast.

Have you heard about the John Surd chainsaw brand?

John Surd is an urban area with about 1000 inhabitants is located near Gothenburg on the West coast of Sweden.

Well, if you live there, then that's a great place to do a hyperlocal podcast.

Yep.

Uh, and that's it.

That's it.

Wow.

Crazy.

That's it.

I'm not even a pre-show boost.

Well, it is, it's Labor Day weekend and people are going away and I understand if it's okay.

We love y'all.

We got some PayPal's.

I guess these are monthlies mixed up cause we didn't have very many.

We got Jordan Dunville, $10.

Thank you, Jordan.

Uh, Dreb Scott, 15 bucks.

Hey, thank you.

Uh, Michael Kimmerer, $5 and 33 cents.

Thank you, Michael.

And Chris Bernardik, $5.

That's our PayPal's.

And we got a brother.

CSB cames in, comes in with a boost gram, 13,635 sets.

Wow.

Thank you.

Uh, through fountain.

He says, howdy, Dave and Adam.

I'd like to recommend the podcast this week in Bitcoin by Chris Fisher, which is quote an independent investigative podcast covering Bitcoin, a high signal news podcast focused on analysis.

You'll find valuable end quote.

See also my new website, www.trading.toys.

Yo CSB PS Adam.

Yes.

Corva.

Corva Horowitz.

Corva Horowitz to add a transcript to DHM.

I've told them so many times.

What does Corva mean?

Corva.

It's kind of like a crap in a Polish, I think.

Let me see.

Trading.toys.

What is this?

Uh, Satoshi Bitcoin click.

Oh, it's a, it's a converter.

So live Bitcoin price chart.

Wow.

108.66.

Oh, we're down, baby.

We're down.

Let me see.

I need, um, an API for this would be good.

CSB, if you can get me one.

Yeah.

Cause I have a use for it.

Oh, okay.

There you go.

It has no information on API.

Uh, oh, we're now we're getting, now we're getting boost.

Let's see.

We got, uh, user fountain user 1 8 3 4 2 0 2 2 5 0 3 8 2 2 6.

Oh, um, have a dip of boost from the Volte.

And the second booze, a hundred sats.

It's okay.

Plus one on Twib.

Chris, Chris LAS is a legend.

He is indeed a legend.

He is a legend.

He is.

That's one of my go-to podcasts.

I love listening to it.

All right, everybody.

Well, we do appreciate anything that you boost at all.

Uh, so slow weekends, holiday weekend.

Yeah.

Uh, but of course you can go to podcastindex.org at the bottom.

You scroll all the way down.

There's a red donate button.

Uh, you can use that for your PayPal, a Fiat fund, coupon donations.

Everything goes to keeping the index running.

And of course, all of your boosts and booster grams, uh, also stay on the node.

If you need any liquidity, let me know.

Happy to open a channel to you.

So if I can finish this silly, see a line of text bull crap is God caster app.

I can get back to the life.

I got to get to my whole life with, you know, cause I really have a, I have a couple of things I seriously need to do in the index.

I mean, like I really need to, to work on the index a little bit.

Do you want to tell everybody what the problem is?

Maybe we can crowdsource a solution because this is driving you mad.

I already fixed it.

Oh, you fixed it?

It's it.

I fixed it with JavaScript.

The problem is the, the, the, well, the problem is, so there's, there's a fixed, wait, wait, wait, wait.

I have a couple of those.

Oh, good Lord.

There you go.

Yes.

Perfect description.

So there is a div front end web development blows by the way.

There is a div that is fixed position on the, on the bottom of the viewport.

This div contains a flex row, which the middle section, which this flex row contains three divs.

The middle div of the flex row contains a flex column with three, with three divs.

The outs, the left most of the, of the flex row, the left most div is fixed with the right most div is also fixed with so that when you expand and shrink the viewport, the middle div of the flex row resizes, it's the only thing that expands and contracts within that.

So the, and remember the, there's a, the child of the middle section of the flex row is a flex column and the bottom most div of that flex column contains a string of text.

There is seemingly no way to make that text, um, not overflow and push the right most div off the viewport.

When in portrait mode.

Uh, it, well, it's really in any mode.

Uh, but when you're in responsive, when you're in responsive mode, yeah.

So it would be more like, well, if you're trying to be responsive, meaning you can, you're, it means you're, meaning you're always floating.

So that would, that applies to mobile.

If you're being responsive, it will always push that right hand content off the viewport.

And look, because you would have to set a max width on that, on that middle section, right?

You would have to say, go, you can go this big, but no bigger, but you don't know how big it can go because the, the, the screen can go, people can resize their browser to be really big or really small.

So you can't set a max size because if they, if they shrink it down in the max size, if they shrink it down to 200 pixels wide and the max size is a hundred pixels, well, then you've, you've left space on the table.

If it's there, it's just not, there's no way to know a fixed pixel size.

So you need to use percentages.

Percentages do not appear to work because the parent div containing div has to have a fixed width in order for the percentage to be based on the parent, but it can't have a fixed width.

Because the parent also has to be responsive.

The middle, this middle column of this nested flex set just doesn't, it's just uncontrollable.

So the only thing I could do was put a hook on the viewport resize so that if anybody resizes the viewport, then you get a hook on it, an event listener, and then do a bunch of calculations to figure out how wide this thing should be and then just set it in JavaScript.

Wow.

It's horrible.

How mad did I make you when I vibe coded the answer and gave it to you?

I was only slightly irritated.

I was like, he doesn't need this, but hopefully he can get a laugh out of it.

I did actually laugh because literally it's like it gave you three possible answers.

The first two I had done three days ago and the last one was do it in JavaScript.

I'm like, that's what I'm doing right now.

It's exactly what I'd already been through.

Oh man, I felt bad doing it, but I couldn't resist.

I'm like, try this.

Super grok.

It can help.

I'm sure it can.

Yeah.

I think it's just, I think, I think it's just a, I think it should work, but I think it may just be like, once you get enough nested stuff together like this, I think it just kind of doesn't, I'm not, I'm not even going to call it a bug.

I'm just saying behave like, I think this is into the CSS world where behavior is undefined, undefined behavior, undefined behavior.

Yes.

All right, brother.

So, well, hopefully you can get through that and then enjoy your weekend.

You deserve it for sure.

Oh yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

We're good.

I'm going fishing in the morning.

Uh, but right now we all know what you need to do.

What?

What do I need to do?

You got to go clean up the kitchen, man, before the wife comes home.

Oh, I forgot about that.

All right, everybody.

Thank you very much.

Boardroom.

I think Oystein is coming up next.

Uh, and we'll see you next Friday, right here on podcasting 2.0.

You have been listening to podcasting 2.0.

Visit podcastindex.org for more information.

Go podcasting!

They're just Durka Durka Muhammad Jihad.

Durka Durka Durka Durka.