Behind every homeschooling freedom we cherish today stands a pioneer, a fighter, and a relentless advocate.

Today, I feel honored to have Zan Tyler on our show.

A beacon of resilience whose journey began in 1984 under the looming threat of jail.

Her story is not just about homeschooling, it's a testament to unwavering determination and the power of a single voice to shape history.

As a trailblazer for over three decades, Zan Tyler has championed homeschooling freedoms with unmatched passion.

From navigating legal battles to publishing vital curriculum, she has empowered countless parents to embrace their role as educators.

Her voice resonates not only as an uplifting speaker and author, but also as the host of the Zan Tyler podcast, where she delivers practical wisdom and unwavering encouragement week after week.

Today, as homeschooling flourishes, it's easy to forget the challenges of yesteryears.

Zan Tyler is taking us back to the roots of her journey.

You'll get to discover what fueled her in the face resistance and uncertainty, and you'll learn how she persevered through sacrifices and setbacks, all to secure the rights that we cherish as homeschoolers today.

This episode isn't just about history, it's about empowering homeschool families everywhere.

Zan Tyler's insights will inspire you, her advice will fortify you, and her story will remind you that every challenge is a stepping stone towards greater freedom fulfillment in your homeschooling journey.

I'm so glad you were able to come today.

Oh, thank you so much for having me.

I'm so excited to be here, and we have talked about this for a while.

So this is great.

Thank you.

Finally.

I wanna start at the beginning.

Can you share your story with us, What led you to homeschooling and what it was like in those early days?

Well, it was a very backdoor way into homeschooling.

I had a son.

My oldest son was in kindergarten, and he was the only one not reading.

It was a really avant garde kindergarten with eight kids.

He was gregarious, vivacious, very, very smart, but not reading.

Only eight kids in the class.

So I watched him really atrophy during the last half of the school year.

He had psychosomatic stomach aches and different things going it's totally out of norm for him.

So I just took him out of kindergarten.

In college, there were two things I said I would never do.

One was teach and the other was have kids.

And so I knew nothing about what to do for Thai educationally because I had on purpose avoided the whole topic.

So I talked to a friend of mine with a master's and she said, I was saying, just need to hold Thai back a year.

Sometimes little boys don't read.

Mean, if I knew then what I knew now, this would have never even been an issue.

So I had Ty tested by two different child psychologists.

The female PhD said he was a motor mouth who needed to be on Ritalin, and I certainly didn't need to hold him back.

The male child psychologist said he was a man's man at the age of six, had an unbelievable vocabulary.

He was motivated.

He was energetic.

And I thought every school teacher in the system is gonna see him the way the female psychologist did.

So I knew that holding him back was really our only choice.

I took my test results to the school district.

They said, fine, we'll put him in kindergarten here.

We had moved back from Boston, so we had moved into the school district where I'd gone to school on purpose.

And everything was fine until the June when the school principal notified me that I couldn't hold Ty back.

I had to put him in the first grade.

And I said, well, that's not an option and private schools are filled.

And in the meantime, a really close friend of mine that I used to get together with once a week, she was a little bit older than me and had taught in public school, although our kids were the same age.

She said, Zane, I'm homeschooling.

And it was the first time I had ever heard the word.

And it was one of the worst days of my life.

I just thought, this is bizarre.

They were both getting their master's degrees.

They were getting ready to go to Kenya on the mission field.

And in their little mobile home, all I could think was I've got to get out of here because when I heard the word homeschool, I just thought about Star Wars and Wookie and all you know, the four heroines are in that that trash compactor and the walls are closing in, and I thought, I gotta get out of here.

But she gave me a book, Homegrown Kids by doctor Raymond Moore.

And actually, I read through it as a courtesy to my friend, it was just one of those life changing moments.

And I thought, if there's education that can really happen this way in a home with warm, responsive parents, plenty of time for play, service, pursuing interest.

I'm all in.

And then I realized, no, this is 1984.

We didn't know anybody in the world who homeschooled.

I mean, was nobody to go to for advice.

There's no mister Google.

There's no HSLDA.

I think they had actually started on the West Coast, but it wasn't a national organization in scope.

I mean, it was the very beginnings.

And so I just thought, I can't do this.

I can't do this to my family.

I can't do this to my parents.

I can't do this to us.

And so basically, I just dropped the whole thing.

Called a friend of mine.

He had been my principal in high school.

He was now associate superintendent in the district.

And I said, John, can you just write a note, hold, and tie back?

Very simple request.

They used to do it all the time.

No, Zan.

I'm sorry.

I can't do that.

And so I said, well, I guess I'll just have to homeschool tie.

That was really my ace in the hole.

And he said, oh, yeah.

The school district's getting real liberal about that.

You should do it.

And you could have knocked me over with a feather.

So later, I found out that the school district had approved one person for one year in the history of the school district for homeschooling, and she was a certified teacher.

And I had to hire an attorney just to find out what the homeschool law was.

School district education wouldn't give it to me.

We had to hire an attorney to find out the law.

So long story, I filled out this application.

I laugh and say it was about three inches thick, thirty six week syllabus, books in my home, a fire escape plan, lighting plan, letters of recommendation.

It was pretty hardcore, and then they turned me down.

So I called my attorney back.

I mean, I had met the letter of the law in that application, I can tell you.

So I called my attorney back, and he said, Zane, you're gonna have to appeal to the State Board of Education.

I said, what happens then?

They'll rubber stamp what the school district says, and then you'll end up in family court.

And at this point, I'm really arguing with God over this because I really felt like this was all his leading.

And so I woke up one morning in the throes of all of this, and I thought, well, the state superintendent of education is a friend of my mother's.

I'm just gonna call him.

My mom was an excellent public school teacher, and when he was getting his PhD in education, he actually observed her classroom for several months.

So I would see him every afternoon when I was at school.

So I called doctor Williams, and I said, doctor Williams, Sybil Peter's daughter, I have a real problem.

Can I come see you?

He said, can you come this morning?

I'll clear my calendar.

He was a friend.

So I went to see him, and he was a reasonable person.

And I really felt like he was gonna say to me, you have exhausted, Legally, it's called exhausting all of your administrative, opportunities.

I had exhausted every avenue.

And now I had been turned down for homeschooling, and I thought he was gonna say, you're a mom who loves your son.

How can I help you right this wrong?

Instead, when I told him my story, he looked at me and he said, if you continue down this path of homeschooling, I will have you put in jail for truancy.

I have never been more shocked or surprised in my life by somebody's response.

And I just took a deep breath, and I said, well, Doctor.

Williams, you'll just have to put me in jail.

And I got up and left.

So the kicker was Joe and I lived a half a mile from his parents, three miles from my parents.

We hadn't told anybody in the world we were gonna homeschool.

Now I had to go see my parents who were very involved in the South Carolina community and say, mom and dad, I'm homeschooling Ty this year.

My school district 's turned me down.

My hearing is in a week or two, and doctor Williams just threatened to put me in jail.

I didn't want you to read about it in the newspaper.

I would it would not have said, pee on mom, Zan Tyler goes to jail.

It would have said John Peter's daughter goes to jail.

And so that was that was sort of how it all started.

Dan, what was it like in those early days when you were beginning to homeschool?

Honestly, it was terrible.

We finally ended up getting approved by the State Board of Education because I had worked for a US senator who actually flew down and spoke on my behalf to the state superintendent.

So they approved my program.

But there was no support.

We had people in our neighborhood whose kids could no longer play with our sons because they were homeschooled.

We had people at church who wouldn't speak to us.

We had family friends who wouldn't speak to us.

I mean, this is 1984.

Nobody knows a homeschooler.

Nobody knows what homeschooling is, including me.

You know, I'm I'm on the cusp of learning everything too.

And so it was lonely.

From that first year, we homeschooled practically every day.

We lived in this small cul de sac neighborhood.

A policeman would ride by my house on most days.

Now this is a very quiet, secluded neighborhood.

And and it was, you know, just to make sure, I guess, my kids were we were home, and my kids were inside, and we were homeschooling.

So it was actually, it was pretty harsh.

And I'm a people person, and I love people.

I want people to be happy.

It was really hard on me.

I felt like I was in exile.

What I saw happening in our home as we homeschooled totally changed, I believe, the trajectory of Ty's life.

It was amazing to begin to have this supportive, warm, responsive relationship, as this book I read said.

And so we get to that end of the first year, and I told Joe, I said, you know, I want to do this again.

I really feel like the Lord is leading us to do this one more year.

And he said, okay.

I was afraid of that, but okay.

And so we were approved that year.

Hey.

This was not on the prepared question, so sorry to throw you a curveball here.

But something that we talk about a lot in Thrive Homeschool Community, especially with our group of brand new homeschool moms, is we talk about how their friendship landscape is going to change.

And I do think that when we make that transition to homeschooling, it it communicates a lot without communicating a lot.

And our decision to homeschool can make a lot of people uncomfortable.

What words of encouragement?

Because what you faced sounded very severe, probably more severe than what we face today.

But what advice would you give that homeschool mom who's decided to homeschool?

She's really excited about it, and then she kinda looks up and realizes, wait a minute.

Like, I'm gonna lose all my friends maybe.

You know, it's interesting.

I used to run a lot, and I used to read this marathoner.

He was a gold medal marathonist.

And he said when you start running, your life is gonna change, and you basically need to find new friends that will encourage you in your pursuit.

It really doesn't mean you leave your old friends behind, but you do need to find your community that is going to support you, help you get out of bed on those days that you don't feel like getting out of bed and doing this, and can cheer you on in your decision to homeschool.

That's why your community, Thrive Community, is so important.

Joe and I started a state organization that offers a lot of support.

I mean, my whole after going through what we did those first few years, we were actually in court of the legislature for eight years, after we started homeschooling.

And that was so defining for me because I'll never forget what it was like to be totally alone in that decision.

And so find support.

Find your people.

And, you know, I will say the new friends I found in homeschooling are amazing lifelong friends.

It's like, I thought to be overly dramatic, you've been through the battles together.

You've been through the good times and the bad times.

And homeschooling is not easy.

It's not that it's not for the faint of heart because I think courage is not that we're not afraid.

We just keep going through it.

Yeah.

It can be daunting.

So you need your friends.

I needed friends, and I didn't have it.

And so I would really encourage you to develop those.

Yeah.

And I think just normalizing that this is one of the expectations when you change your lifestyle in this way.

I think it blindsides people because people don't really talk about it.

But really, you know, I do a talk at conferences on naysayers, like how to handle the naysayers and the skeptics in your life.

And I kinda equate it to, like, think of it as you're in a friend group where everyone drinks and then you get sober.

Right?

You leaving says a lot.

You're working on yourself.

You're bettering your life.

Right?

And you're gonna get a lot of judgment from those other people.

Mhmm.

But it's not necessarily a bad thing.

This is you growing, and you're right.

You have to find that new tribe, that new group who is gonna support you and just kind of have it as an expectation.

And as you're making that transition, just kind of look at your current friendship landscape and look at who's mature.

Look at who can do this journey with you.

Right?

I have a few friends who don't homeschool.

Well, one being who I am.

It's really hard to be my friend if you don't homeschool because they go to my social media, and they're like, she said, what?

And it's like, yes.

I did say that out loud.

So but my friends who don't homeschool homeschool, they're just really strong.

It's just not for them.

And we and this is for me, and we do life anyway.

So thank you for that encouragement.

And, yeah, it must have been really lonely days, and I know you're an extrovert, and you're a people person.

And the one thing that I wanna add to that is, especially since I've entered the homeschool space and, you know, Christy Faith kinda became Christy Faith, one thing my son told me as he was traveling with us this past year is he said, mom, you've really up leveled your friends.

And he's right.

I agree with you so much, Zan, that the friends that I have found in the homeschooling space are truly incredible lifelong friends.

I wanna transition now about that resistance that you were facing in those early years.

What was going through your mind, and did you ever feel like giving up, or did it just fuel your determination?

You know, I think it's both.

That is a both and, not an either or.

Because, you know, it, in retrospect, it kills my soul that wanting to hold my child back one year because it was best for him.

I had the test scores to prove it from a school psychologist.

It could set all of this in motion.

How can doing one one minor change for a child set all this in motion?

Doing the best for my child was such an overwhelming push for me that that kept me going.

I felt like it was God's call in my life.

I felt like it was the best thing for time.

And so the overarching picture was it fueled that desire to keep going.

The day to day picture is it was lonely, and it was hard.

And there were a lot of days I thought it would be a whole lot more comfortable, and my life would be nicer if I just quit.

Those were just the daily arguments I had to have with myself.

But it wasn't the overarching, the big why, the big picture that kept me fueled.

And even the curriculum options back then were they were slim pickings.

How did you even do it?

Because moms today, we obsess over our biggest problem right now isn't am I gonna be thrown in jail like it was for you?

It's what curriculum am I gonna buy?

And is it nature study?

Right?

Is it

a living room?

Right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I I just I I sometimes I think of you, you know, just with everything that you've done for our movement and the fights that you have fought, and I just think, like, what is Ian thinking right now when this is our biggest worry?

What was curriculum like back then?

Well, it was not fun.

But I will say sometimes there's so many choices, it's harder than having a few.

The first year we homeschooled, there was this archaic homeschooling law we were functioning with.

And they told me I had to use the curriculum that a public or private school was using in my district.

And I wanted to use a Christian curriculum.

Turns out it was not suited for my son at all.

They would not sell the teacher's manual to me.

I sort of had to find it on the black market.

And every day it would start off with like, have your kids put their feet on the floor, their hands on the desk, look you in the eye.

You know, it just wasn't written for homeschoolers.

And so that induced a lot of guilt in me because I had a child who was auditory kinesthetic.

He learned by talking and moving.

So every day I felt like a failure.

Well, the next year, a friend of mine, she and her husband had moved from The Presidio, which is he was a ENT surgeon, and they were homeschooling in California.

They moved to South Carolina.

And she said, we need to figure out how we can use BJU Press as our curriculum.

And she says, Anne, I don't know how you function this year.

That is actually when I contacted BJU Press Homeschool, as we call it now.

And it really started a lifelong relationship because they were willing to work with me and help me.

Now in the early days I mean, BJU Press now is so much more homeschool friendly with their videos and consultants and all of that.

But then they were really the only company who would sit down and have a conversation with me.

So we have a relationship that goes way, way back.

Yeah.

And a lot of people don't realize that BJU Press homeschool, I mean, they they continue to support homeschooling freedoms and rights.

They do this monetarily.

They financially support the state nonprofits.

They are a sponsor of my podcast.

I am incredibly thankful.

And it's so funny because going into this homeschooling journey many, many years ago, over a decade ago, you know, and I was a classical and I was a Charlotte Mason homeschooler, and I would view kind of these box curricula options as, oh, I'm not doing that.

That's school at home.

And, you know, I'm really embarrassed about that now because when I started embracing BJU Press homeschool for some subjects, this past year was our best year ever in homeschooling.

And the videos are just so beautifully produced, and I'm particularly thankful.

And I don't think people realize that, you know, nonprofits are nonprofits.

Right?

We need these companies to help support us on a corporate level as sponsorships, and BJU Press is always there to support the states.

I see it because I'm in the background and so are you.

And so we kinda see which companies are supporting the states.

And so for anyone listening who is kind of like, I really wanna buy a curriculum that is is it from a company who is supporting my homeschooling rights, you can rest assured that BJU Press Homeschool is one of those, and you can contact a consultant.

So that was not the commercial.

We'll get that commercial break in a second.

I just really love the curriculum.

I was going through yesterday, what we're doing for next year, and I loved what I did last year that we're doing it all again.

Let's move on to the next question.

So homeschooling moms face their own challenges.

We have overwhelm.

We have self doubt and even criticism from others.

What would you say to a mom who feels like she is not enough?

As a homeschool mom who values a family together approach and leans towards the classical and Charlotte Mason styles, I often struggle to bring my educational vision to life with my kids' diverse ages and learning needs.

With all our interests and super packed schedule, bridging that gap between the dreamy homeschool I want and reality, I gotta be honest.

It's a challenge.

Now, yes, I know perfection isn't the goal.

But if you're listening and you could use a little easing of your mental load in your day to day, I found a resource that has become the quiet hero of our routine, and it could be a really great option for you too.

BJU Press homeschool curriculum.

Now many think that BJU Press homeschool is solely an all in one option, and though it does excel in that role, did you know you can also opt for specific courses and tailor them to fit your family's needs just as I have?

BGU Press Homeschool provides the perfect balance of structure and flexibility and easily complements my family's mixed age family together on the couch learning style.

They are second to none in integrating a biblical worldview, stimulating critical thinking, and offering tons of hands on activities in the lessons.

To find out how BJU Press Homeschool can come alongside you in your homeschooling goals too.

Visit b j u press homeschool dot com or click the link in the show notes.

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First of all, I would say that's the wrong question.

We need to be asking what do our children need, and how can we get that for them?

And let me tell you, those are not the two questions that that school districts are asking about your children.

I mean, they have a plan, and it has to be this way.

It's mass instruction.

But we can become students of our children.

Learn how they learn.

Learn what motivates them.

And it's a very exciting journey.

I have grown kids now.

And see how you can play to their strengths, teach to their strengths.

I mean, that's a great way to homeschool.

I mean, there's no perfect school.

There's no perfect teacher.

There's no school without gaps.

Because when we first started homeschooling, everybody commented on to me.

I mean, it was being like being the worst money morning quarterback situation ever.

Everybody thought they could speak into my life, and everybody was telling me how I was ruining my kids.

And I certainly knew I was not enough.

And I can just remember I would wake up at 02:00 every morning with all of the conversations from the day racing through my head.

And Joe's my best friend.

I would wake him up because I knew he wanted to participate in all of this angst.

You know?

And so finally, after about six weeks of this, he looked at me and he said, Zanny, Jesus is always awake.

And what he was telling me was, I need to go pray and let him sleep.

Those sessions for me every at 02:00 in the morning for years and years and years, it really changed me.

And I had the thought one morning when I'm up by this time, it's like 03:30 in the morning.

How many teachers did I have that cried over me in the middle of the night or prayed over me or was really worried about a character trait they saw in me or didn't see in me or was concerned about the fact that maybe I wasn't picking up geometry as fast as I picked up algebra one and two?

You know, nobody.

And and I finally realized we have so much angst in this because we have so much skin in the game and because we love our kids so much.

It's loving our kids so much that causes us to feel all of these unique feelings that we feel.

And so I just think by virtue of the love a parent has for the child, it's always gonna make homeschooling sensitive, demanding, and leaving us like we don't we are not enough.

But let me tell you, you are.

You love your child more than anybody in the world.

You're more invested in their lives than anybody in the world.

I used to have a plaque in my office that says a worried mom does better research than the FBI.

I mean, a homeschooling mom will do what it takes to get their child what they need.

The people who make a difference are not the ones with their credentials, but the ones with the concern.

Was there a moment in your fight for homeschooling freedoms where you realized, wait a minute.

This is way bigger than my own family.

I need to make some changes here.

And what was that journey like?

You know, there were two moments for me that were foundly life changing.

One was, you know, the threat of jail and all of that, but that was just part of the bigger story.

After we started homeschooling that first year, and that year was so bad, I had a call from a woman.

She had her PhD in education from the University of Tennessee.

She moved to South Carolina to take over their education department at Columbia International University.

And her name was Lorraine Nitterman.

And she called me up and she said, Zan, I've heard about you.

I'd like to meet you.

I said, okay.

I mean, I was thrilled.

She wanted to take me to dinner.

Most people wanted to put me in jail.

I mean, it was like the nicest thing anybody had said to me since we started homeschooling.

So Lorraine, we met at a little cheap Italian restaurant, and she looked at me and she held my hand.

And she said, I just want you to know that God is in homeschooling, and this is bigger than you.

He will take care of the mess, and he will take care of your children.

You need to persevere and be faithful.

And it took her five minutes to tell me that.

It changed my life.

It let me know.

I didn't know exactly what that meant, but it let me know there was more to this than just the anxiety we were going through as a family.

Now fast forward about a year.

It's November now of 1985.

This is our second year to homeschool.

I get a knock on my door one night.

I think it was ten.

And whenever I got a knock on my door, and it was after dark, it scared me.

I thought, okay.

This is DSS coming to get my kids.

So Joe was home.

Thank goodness.

He used to travel a lot.

So I went to the door, and it was my neighbor.

Bill.

We loved Bill and Peggy.

And they were not fans of homeschooling, but Bill ran a state agency.

And he said, Zan, do you know what the state register is?

I said, no.

And he said, well, it's a place where state agencies can promulgate legislation, and it doesn't even have to be approved.

If nobody objects in ninety days, then it automatically becomes law.

Could be one hundred and eighty days.

I need to check that out.

And he said, I just found these regulations that the State Department of Education is promulgating about homeschooling.

They wanna require that teaching parents only have a college degree from an accredited university, which cut out Harvard and BJU, and you can only use state approved text.

So no faith based curriculum, no curriculum of your choice, just what the schools are using.

He said, you need to know about this.

And I thought, woah.

So I called my attorney, and he said, Zane, you need to call a public hearing.

If you get 25 letters in, you can call a public hearing and stop these regulations.

And which we did, and we did stop them, but it set in process then the next seven years of being in the legislature in court.

But those were sort of the two determining moments in my life.

One was somebody giving me vision.

The second was somebody presenting me with a problem that was so heinous, I knew I could not not be involved.

And at the time, can you explain to the listener what was the landscape of homeschooling across the country?

I didn't know because I didn't know anybody across the country.

Joe and I, we had Tandy 1,000 for any of you who are old enough to remember what in the world that was.

And we were just starting to keep a list of names and addresses.

And most of the calls I was getting were from attorneys or litter literacy organizations across the country.

And so it was you know, I wasn't getting calls from people I wanna homeschool my kids or or I didn't know what was going on in other states.

I mean, there's no social media.

There's no national homeschooling organization.

There's no way to know those things.

Yeah.

Now today, we can go to our state organization.

We can go to HSLDA, and we can get help.

We can get someone we can get a lawyer on the phone in under twenty four hours, basically.

Right.

That was not your experience.

But No.

And I know you were kinda living in this microcosm.

At the time, knowing what you know now, what was it looking like?

Because I know that you had become friends with Mike Ferris, who is the founder of HSLDA.

What was the case?

But not yet.

Okay.

So Not yet.

So at the time, what was homeschooling law like across the nation?

Because I do believe it wasn't until the early nineteen nineties that it was legal in all 50 states.

Right.

And so this is 1985, and I really had no concept of anything going on around the country.

I just didn't know.

I mean, I had we had been to Atlanta for a small meeting, with doctor Moore and a few attorneys, and there were groups from a few states.

There were seven people there from South Carolina.

Nobody would give their last names or phone numbers because they were so afraid that one of us was a mole, and things were so awful.

So that was my knowledge of what was going on.

And so we put into motion the plans for this public hearing that took place in 1986.

So this was November 1985.

In 1986, we finally had the hearing, but it did derail those regulations for a little bit.

I met for the first time with a senator who became our main sponsor for the next six or seven years for homeschooling.

All of that really began to set those things in motion.

But then we had another public hearing in 1987, and that's when Chris Klicka from HSLDA came down for the first time.

Then in 1987, 1988, I got to know Mike Farris very well.

He got very involved in homeschooling along with Dee Black who was another attorney with HSLDA.

And they just fought court case after court case while I fought legislative issue after legislative issue.

And so then I think in 1988 or '89, they started a national homeschool conference that continues to this day.

And so then that's when I really began to know homeschool leaders from around the country and to go and hear these people talk about things that were happening to them.

A lot of people didn't have problems.

North Carolina, Georgia, two states that bordered us, no problem.

There were some states that were great, other states like South Carolina.

The landscape in South Carolina, if you're a CS Lewis fan, it was like Narnia.

It was always winter and never Christmas.

And, you know, before we turn the video on to hit record, you were sharing that just this last year, there were seven different legislative problems that came up nationwide.

It might be helpful for us to have an understanding of what types of things are the state organizations and everyone who's fighting for homeschooling, what type of legislative issues are coming up that are threatening our homeschooling freedoms?

Well, for the first time, I would say in two decades, maybe, maybe longer than that, we are seeing substantial threats to homeschool freedom.

That's why I always say, the only way for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.

And I may have just butchered that quote.

But the fact is that freedom is something that requires eternal vigilance.

You know, I've heard people say, oh, Zane, there's so many homeschoolers now.

That means there'll be no more threats to homeschooling.

That is a bunch of junk.

Do not believe that lie.

The more of us that there are, the bigger target we have in our back.

So this year in Virginia, great homeschool laws.

They have a religious exemption that people can sign up for, and it's very easy to homeschool, you know, under the religious exemption.

For the first time, this was threatened.

And it was a real threat.

And they spent a couple of months and had thousands and thousands of people show up at the state house to beat this legislation.

In Illinois, one of the best states in the union for homeschooling.

All of a sudden, they have challenges to homeschooling that are requiring things that have never been required in Illinois that died at the end of the session.

But it was a real threat and a hard fight.

I just talked to my friend Roe in New Jersey.

She was on my mind one morning.

I called her.

She said, how did you hear about this?

I said, hear about what?

Well, they had one bad bill defeated, I think the May in New Jersey, but a new one that was introduced that would require homeschooling families to meet with a designee of the local school superintendent who was either a social worker, a nurse, not a teacher.

And this was, quote, the opportunity for homeschooling parents to find out what support they could get from their school district.

Run the other way.

Do not get your help with homeschooling from your local school district.

And the other thing was they had to bring their children so that there could be a well check of every child who is homeschooling.

This is the most heinous, egregious homeschooling bill I've seen come to the forefront in thirty years.

That is terrible.

There were threats in Minnesota.

There was a threat in Connecticut that has a great law.

These weren't backdoor challenges.

These were just challenges, an affront to homeschool freedom and parental rights.

Yeah.

I mean, talk about presumptive guilt.

My goodness.

Yes.

That's exactly what it is.

Presum and especially in Connecticut.

And there's a great we've got so many great supreme court decisions.

This is the hundredth anniversary of Pierce versus society of sisters in 1925 that said the child is not the mere creature of the state.

Well, that is foundational.

But then there's another one, and I don't have this right at my fingertips, that was built on the Pierce versus a Society of Sisters that said it's repugnant to Western civilization to assume that because some parents abuse their children, all parents are.

That was the basis of the Connecticut bill.

There was abuse in one situation, which we all are against.

We're all against truancy.

We're all against child abuse.

That's why there are laws on the record already to take care of those things.

But for them to presume that we're all guilty because one person was, it is presumptive guilt like you talked about.

That is not the presumption of innocence until proven guilty.

Absolutely.

And it's also assuming that no abuse happens in the schools, and we actually know the statistics of major abuse of all kinds

happens in

the schools.

And to the point where even things like bullying are just not even considered abusive because they're just so normalized.

Yeah.

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For listeners listening today, you're thinking like, well, okay.

Well, the state just wants to make sure that everybody all kids are getting an education.

Here's the problem when you're not deschooled.

Right?

We don't believe in the system.

We don't want the state standards.

We want a different way.

It's literally the point.

So when we have legislators who don't understand homeschooling, right, they don't understand the different pedagogies that there are maybe better ways to educate and raise a child than what the school system offers, then they are trying to impose their view of an education, what an education even is, the mere definition of an education.

They're imposing that on homeschooling parents and basically transforming us into subjects of the state who are executing public school at home.

And Right.

That's why this is so egregious and what seems like something very minor like a check-in or even this year, k, I homeschool legally.

I homeschool in Colorado.

This was a testing year.

Oh, man.

I gave my kids their standardized test.

I was kicking and screaming.

Kicking and screaming.

Right?

Because I'm looking at that standardized test, and I'm thinking not only have I just not taught this particular thing yet, I'll get to it.

Right?

Every kid's gonna learn a semi co We're crying out loud.

But like right?

But don't hold my I'm not even homeschooling to this test, but I have to turn this stupid thing in and just to check off a box that I'm homeschooling legally and so they can keep track of us when I'm not I don't even agree with the state standards or anything.

That's why this is so egregious because the more they creep into our homeschooling rights, the more we're gonna have to homeschool just like public school.

By the way

Let me tell you.

I believe that the misuse and abuse of standardized testing is I mean, I believe that is abuse.

We went through that in South Carolina.

We used to have to take our kids to the public school to be tested.

And boy, do I have a story about that.

But it wasn't to see where the kids are doing well and where they need to shore it up.

It was to determine whether I could homeschool the next year.

That's an abuse of standardized testing, and to me that is totally unacceptable.

Yes.

Yeah.

And my youngest who didn't really understand, right, this was her first time doing a bubble test, she actually said, like, if I don't do well, will they not let us homeschool?

That fear should not be in a child's mind.

Absolutely.

That almost makes me wanna cry.

So when we started so this would have been our second or third year of homeschooling.

My son John, who is an attorney now, actually he's chief legal counsel for the State Department of Education, homeschools his four kids.

But he couldn't read.

He was I had a late birthday, September 29 birthday.

He knew his phonics.

So my friend who was the PhD said, well, Zane, I'll just appeal to the superintendent or or the school board.

They won't make John test if they know you've done a good job, and he's just not ready to read yet.

Oh, no.

John had to be tested.

So I had to take him into a public school room where he couldn't read a word and have a test that would determine whether he could be homeschooled next year.

And so this was really, I guess if you wanna talk about a watershed moment for me, this was it.

I went out, I bought test prep material for John.

And I showed him, I said, John, this is what it's gonna look like when they give you this booklet.

I mean, he's a smart kid.

And I said, you see all these questions on the left and then the bubble sheet on the right.

You keep your head down and you count to five.

One, two, three, four, five for number one.

And then you come over to number one and you circle in any letter you want to.

You go to number two, you pretend like you're reading number two, count to five, come back, mark any bubble you want.

Now why am I doing this, mommy?

You my husband, Joe, he's hilarious.

We used to do lots of skits with the kids.

I said, this is a skit.

You're just pretending like you can read like everybody else does.

And so John goes to take this test that determines our future, and I'm a wreck.

You know, I'm brave for him, but I'm a wreck.

I would go back to my parent my in law's house.

And every day, I would fast and pray and cry.

And I just asked the Lord to blind the school districts to John's test scores.

So six weeks later, I get the test scores in the mail.

I finally bring myself to look at them.

John has a ninety ninth percentile in everything.

And so, I mean, I'm talking to the Lord about this.

I'm saying, did you just whisper the letters in his ear?

And then I realized there are two Johnny Tylers in our very little neighborhood, and they picked up the wrong ones.

And and they said, of course you can homeschool next year, miss Tyler.

Look at these test scores.

And so then John, the next year goes in and he's doing great and does great on the standardized test.

And he comes out and he says, mommy, you cannot believe how much easier it is to take a test when you can read what's on it.

But you know, what we went through, to me, that is horrible.

It is awful.

It is awful when a school district uses a test in a way it's not designed to be used.

Yeah.

It's weaponized.

Mhmm.

It is.

You know, John Taylor Gottow wrote a book, Methods of Mass Instruction.

No.

Weapons of Mass Instruction.

Sorry.

It took me a minute.

And, yes.

And I think that's one of them.

And didn't you meet him?

I did.

I had the most glorious two hour interview with him.

I found this handwritten note he wrote me afterwards.

I put it on my little bulletin board in the laundry room.

I was when we had to use those recording devices, you know, with the little cassette tapes.

I have lost the cassette tape with my interview for So one day, you know, I've decided in twenty years when I go to an assisted living facility, I'm gonna take all my pictures and all the little cassette tapes and just go through them all.

Oh, I love it.

Yes.

Oh, man.

I would love.

Can you even imagine if there's, like, the lost interview with

John Calagato.

I know.

Oh, it just makes me so sad.

I'm just so glad I found the letter from him.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's incredible.

Yeah.

That's absolutely incredible.

And and here and here's the last thing that I think in landing the plane on homeschooling rights here and why it's so egregious when the state tries to impose and tell us what to do and tell us what curriculum is the assumption that they're doing a good job themselves.

Go to Nation's report card.

Don't go to a homeschooling source.

Go to Nation's report card and see that basically half of the fourth graders in our country cannot read.

Look at the math scores.

And then you're gonna try to come to me and tell me that I I can't do this?

Excuse me.

Right?

And so I think that's why it's so important for us homeschooling families to understand that that it's people like you who have built the foundation for our homeschooling rights and that it is our state organizations every single day in the legislatures fighting for rights.

One thing I love about what you do, and maybe you can share a a minute about this, is you love to do capital days.

What is a capital day?

Oh my goodness.

You can go to the website hslda.org.

I wrote an article, invest in homeschool freedom, attend your capital day.

Every state should have them.

If they don't, start one.

But it's just when homeschoolers come together as a group, they go to the capital.

I speak at them a lot around the country.

You can have a featured speaker, or you can have a legislator or a governor or somebody from your state speak.

And you just talk about homeschool freedom.

You introduce your kids.

You and your kids have a chance to meet your own representative and state senator if you have not met them.

And it is so important for them to be able to put a face with the word homeschooling.

Because then it's not just some nebulous idea.

It's Johnny or, you know, whoever it is because it was some of those relationships that we made early on that really changed the playing field when they get to know I I can't tell you how many public or how many legislative hearings I've sat in.

One in particular where they just really wanted to just get rid of homeschooling.

And one senator from a county in South Carolina had the guts to stand up and say, well, I thought the same thing too until a homeschool family invited me into their home to see what they were doing and have dinner with them.

And I just have to tell you, that's what we all want our kids to be like.

They were well mannered.

They were well educated.

They loved each other.

I mean, he said it was pretty much it it just changed his mind on the whole issue.

So as I have interviewed legislators around the country, they say it's the only time at their state capitol buildings that they see whole families together.

So go to your homeschool organization website.

You can go to homeschoolfreedom.com and find your state organization and find out who has capital days.

I think hslda.org also has a section for state organizations.

But every organization out there is there to be the gatekeeper for your freedom, for homeschool freedom.

And Capital Days, it is the most to me, it's the most important field trip you'll ever take to begin to show your children what government looks like and how we, the people, are the true government.

Absolutely.

And it's it's just so vital that we are involved.

And, you know, a lot of homeschool families, especially in the economy right now, we're strapped financially.

But something that I often say is what we can give is our time.

We can show up.

We can bring our families to those capital days.

It is so important, as you said, people who don't homeschool that are the decision makers over our lives, they should know us, and they should know us really well, and they should know our kids.

Because and I forgive me for quoting.

I think it's Brene Brown.

Forgive me.

But she's right.

It's really hard to hate somebody up close.

You know?

And it's just true.

That is true.

Mike Ferris was down working on an issue with us, and he had was the president at the time of Homeschool Legal Defense Association.

And so he asked this legislator, what do you think about this homeschooling issue?

He said, I I don't think about it as an issue.

I think how is this gonna affect Joe and Zantyler?

And so that is really how we want our legislators thinking because we are not trying to manipulate the system.

We are just participating in the system as it's been provided to us.

Absolutely.

And we're exercising our freedoms.

Our absolutely.

Our state's rights, our parental rights, our constitutional rights, you name it.

Absolutely.

Thank you, Zan, for sharing your remarkable story today, which is a story of unmatched courage, conviction, and calling.

And you, my dear friend, it's an honor to call you a friend.

You changed the landscape of homeschooling for generations to come, and we can't thank you enough.

Your faith, grit, and perseverance remind us that the freedoms that we enjoy today were hard won, and they're not to be taken for granted.

To every mom listening, if you've ever doubted whether what you're doing matters, let this be your reminder.

Your ordinary days of loving, teaching, and leading your children are shaping futures and preserving the legacy that women like Zan fought to protect.

You, my dear friends, are not just homeschooling.

You are part of a massive movement to build strong grounded families.

So take heart, press on, and know that you are never alone.

You are part of something so much bigger, and you were made for this.

Thank you so much, Zan, for coming on the show today.

Oh, Christy, it was an honor to be here.

Thank you so much.

You have my heart.