[SPEAKER_06]: In September of 2026, writing excuses will host an in-person writing retreat aboard Voyager of the seas, where attendees can hone their craft and connect with fellow writers for a week along the coasts of Canada and Alaska.

[SPEAKER_06]: You can learn more at writingexcuses.com slash retreats, but I'd like to tell you about our scholarships.

[SPEAKER_06]: Scholarships are available.

[SPEAKER_06]: Applications are due by December 31st, 2025.

[SPEAKER_06]: Visit www.writingexcuses.com slash scholarships, but don't delay.

[SPEAKER_06]: The deadline is coming right up.

[SPEAKER_06]: Recipients of these scholarships, the writer of color scholarship, or the out of excuses scholarship for writers with financial need, will receive full retreat tuition, as well as travel assistance for the 2026 Alaskan Cruise.

[SPEAKER_06]: Please share this post with the writers in your life, the rules and application instructions are posted at www.ridingexcuses.com slash scholarships.

[SPEAKER_06]: and all scholarship applications are due by December 31st of 2025.

[SPEAKER_06]: Our scholarship program has introduced us to some outstanding writers, and we're excited to meet this year's recipients.

[SPEAKER_00]: This episode of Writing Excuses has been brought to you by our listeners, patrons and friends.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you would like to learn how to support this podcast, visit www.patrion.com slash writing excuses.

[SPEAKER_00]: season twenty episode fifty two.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is writing excuses.

[SPEAKER_03]: Twenty twenty five end of your wrap up.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm Mary Ravanaugh.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm Dan.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm Aaron and I'm Howard.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we have come to the end of our twentieth season, which is just wild.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: We've also come to the end of 2025 and this episode is going to be longer.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to do this episode in three parts because the other thing that we have come to the end of, which we are going to start with, is dance time with us as a full-time core host.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_04]: I am stepping away from the show.

[SPEAKER_04]: We've been doing this, it's our 20th season, but I believe 17 or 18 years in total, since Brandon Howard and I started this way back in the day.

[SPEAKER_04]: I feel like the time has come.

[SPEAKER_04]: I still love the show, and I love all of you, and I'm excited to see it continue.

[SPEAKER_04]: I'm excited to come back for various episodes and events and stuff, but yeah, stepping away as a full core host.

[SPEAKER_00]: And this was when Dan let us know I should let you know that we are recording this in June of 2025 and and we have known for for a couple of months now and when Dan let us know I was so upset I was so sad that I like couldn't actually answer him and I'm like oh you need to say something right now to this man.

[SPEAKER_00]: But, it's also means that we've had a lot of time to think and reflect about how we want to proceed and the wise of it, and so rather than just doing an announcement of Dan's leaving, we wanted to share with you.

[SPEAKER_00]: Finally.

[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks, Dan.

[SPEAKER_00]: Tell you not to talk about those marshmallows ever again.

[SPEAKER_00]: But we thought that we would talk to you about why Dan is leaving, especially because we began this year by talking about some of the things that Dan had been facing and that he was back with this all year, which was great, but you know, what has changed.

[SPEAKER_00]: all of my career to turn down the gigs I didn't want to do and he said, well, now you're at a point where you have to make a decision about turning down the gigs you do want to do.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that was a thing that came up when we were talking with Dan.

[SPEAKER_04]: That's really where I was this spring.

[SPEAKER_04]: to start the story a little earlier.

[SPEAKER_04]: This is something I've been thinking about for a while, but as we have set ourselves on this show before, when you are in the depths of a bad depressive episode, that's not a good time to make major decisions.

[SPEAKER_04]: That was the very first thing that my therapist told me when I started going to see a therapist, [SPEAKER_04]: And so we reached a point, I can't remember if it was two or three years ago, where I told the rest of the cast.

[SPEAKER_04]: that I had to step away temporarily because if I didn't, I would quit.

[SPEAKER_04]: And I didn't want to quit.

[SPEAKER_04]: And that's just because the depression and at that point, much more so the anxiety were just too much stuff that I love immensely, like recording with this group of people would give me horrible panic attacks.

[SPEAKER_04]: and we had a recording retreat and I don't remember if I told you at that retreat in Austin or if it was later when we got home that it was just too much for me.

[SPEAKER_04]: And I had to step away and give myself time and so I was very spotty for a while.

[SPEAKER_04]: But I knew I didn't want to make that decision yet.

[SPEAKER_04]: And then earlier this year, in March, I finally found a med schedule that worked for me, the right medicines, the right treatments, the right everything.

[SPEAKER_04]: And I have been feeling fantastic ever since.

[SPEAKER_04]: And two or three weeks of that fantastic feeling, I thought, yay, I can come back to the show now, and this will be great.

[SPEAKER_04]: And then I thought, wait a minute, [SPEAKER_04]: This is the time when I am supposed to make the major decision.

[SPEAKER_04]: And I had to think about where I am in my career, what I am looking to do, what kind of platforms and outlets do I want to focus on, and really I felt like it was time for me to move on.

[SPEAKER_04]: And the reason I feel like I am able to move on right now is because we have spent these last [SPEAKER_04]: building the show into a new and exciting thing.

[SPEAKER_04]: And I love what it is and it is in very good hands.

[SPEAKER_04]: I love all of these hosts.

[SPEAKER_04]: And so it really felt like I was able to leave it in their capable care and kind of move on to a new phase of my career.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I have to say for me, you know, because I was, you know, I was not an original host.

[SPEAKER_00]: I came in in season six.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so the idea of doing the podcast without Dan was scary.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because, you know, I like talking to you.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I also, you know, know that I like, at this point, the new team has geled.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we, [SPEAKER_00]: because of the time you had to take to step back.

[SPEAKER_00]: I knew how we worked as a four-person podcast, and there are times honestly when having five people is awkward, that's one of the reasons our episodes tend to run longer.

[SPEAKER_00]: But it is also one of the things that I love about this is that you are, you are leaving at a point where you still love the podcast, you aren't leaving at a point because it's just become a thing that you, you can't handle, you don't like, which was important for me.

[SPEAKER_03]: And we didn't design the season in terms of curriculum with this in mind, right?

[SPEAKER_03]: You told us after we had begun recording episodes for this and sort of knew what we were up to.

[SPEAKER_03]: But it ended up working out because we spent a lot of this year talking about our own individual processes, our career developments, and you know, some of the different things about how we structure our business and how we structure our lives.

[SPEAKER_03]: And so it's been really useful to sort of be like going through that conversation together about like, oh, here's how I think about process, here's how I think about managing my time and picking my projects and building my career.

[SPEAKER_03]: And you know, hearing from you sort of where you're at and all these different ways, I can sort of see all the ways in which you continue to grow and push yourself and you know, figuring out what fits in your life right now is sort of the question that you need to answer as, you know, [SPEAKER_03]: all writers or didn't need to answer with the things that doing other than just writing their novels.

[SPEAKER_02]: I just think like I will be sad and I am sad and I should probably be sad right now, but I'm like super psyched and here's why.

[SPEAKER_02]: Um, [SPEAKER_02]: I can't wait to get rid of you, no, because like thinking about your episode where you were talking about between the sort of business episode and episode about your process and thinking about like all the things you said about your career in the past.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think one of the things that I know from an outside perspective about depression and anxiety is they keep you in the moment, they keep you dealing with the present moment, and they sometimes steal your ability to look forward.

[SPEAKER_02]: And to think about where am I going?

[SPEAKER_02]: Where do I want to go?

[SPEAKER_02]: What is the future that I see?

[SPEAKER_02]: And seeing you talk about here's where I want my career to go.

[SPEAKER_02]: Here's what I'm planning for.

[SPEAKER_02]: Here's what I'm excited for.

[SPEAKER_02]: Makes me so excited for you to have that.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, and to see you like feeling like you're looking forward and I'm like whatever you're looking at like I just want to be standing looking at it with you and like cheering you on in whatever form it is and so I'm like so thrilled More than anything else like just to like be there to be like I was at the moment when Dan was like I'm looking at this next thing and I can be like yeah, cheering you on and like waving from the from the shore as you're like well, I don't know [SPEAKER_00]: I would echo that because I had the initial extremely selfish response, but then after that, especially being here at the recording retreat where you were able to share things with us that we can't share with the listeners, it is exciting to see what happens next.

[SPEAKER_00]: Some of which I know specifically and some things we aren't going to talk about, but the thing about the podcast that I think our listeners don't understand is that it takes a cognitive load.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's something that we actually all been talking about of how to shift the cognitive load of the podcast because it's not just the recording, but there's also all of the planning of the curriculum.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's, [SPEAKER_00]: meetings about what direction we want to go, what additional business things we want to do, you've heard us talking about this craft book, that's another piece of cognitive load.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so, you know, knowing that you're going to free up that space, there's a lot of opportunity there.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's exciting.

[SPEAKER_04]: I thought a lot about, you know, what will I be sad to leave behind?

[SPEAKER_04]: And what am I excited to move on to?

[SPEAKER_04]: And in some ways, I keep thinking of myself as a grandpa of the show, rather than a dad of the show.

[SPEAKER_04]: I am excited that the show will still be there, and that I'll get to play with it sometimes, but then I can give it back to you, and I don't have to change this diaper.

[SPEAKER_06]: all the birds in the sky.

[SPEAKER_06]: One of the things that I loved about it was the aspect of the magic system where in order for certain spells to work, someone has to give something up and often they would agree to give something up without realizing that what they were going to give up was precious to them.

[SPEAKER_06]: And I found several times in my own life most notably when I moved from [SPEAKER_06]: eight years before the podcast began, I consciously made the decision to give away all of my recording equipment.

[SPEAKER_06]: Keyboards, tone generators, it was $20,000 worth of equipment at full retail, gave it away because I knew [SPEAKER_06]: if I if I try and do both, I'll fail at both.

[SPEAKER_06]: I need to give up something I love in order to have something that I want to love next and and I get that sense from you.

[SPEAKER_06]: You are you are giving up something that you love in order to move into something that you are ready to love more.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: And I think that that's pretty much the way I look at it too.

[SPEAKER_04]: One thing I do want to point out.

[SPEAKER_04]: One of the things I get from writing excuses that I don't get from some of the other things I'm working on right now is the ability to give back to the writing community.

[SPEAKER_04]: and that is kind of the the last thing I was really clinging to.

[SPEAKER_04]: I love being able to give back to give advice and to help other aspiring writers and the the [SPEAKER_04]: rest of the hosts have very graciously offered me the chance to keep doing that.

[SPEAKER_04]: I have been running at least in part the the scholarship program that we do for our writing excuses, events and retreats and I still get to do that.

[SPEAKER_04]: So I will still have a hand in that aspect of the show, which is really important to me.

[SPEAKER_04]: So that's great.

[SPEAKER_00]: And also, you're moving back, moving into, it's less that you're stepping back from the podcast and just stepping into a different role because you're going to be like, Don Juan and Aaron were before they came, became Corros where they were series regulars.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, like we already know that you're going to be back next season and for a very special episode.

[SPEAKER_04]: No, it's exactly like that.

[SPEAKER_04]: I keep thinking of, like, Saturn and I live writers, you know, for so long Colin Joe stood Michael Chay, where the headwriters, the co-headwriters of the show, and then they stepped back because they wanted to do something else.

[SPEAKER_04]: They're still on the show, they're still writing skits, but they don't have the same responsibilities anymore.

[SPEAKER_04]: So I'm moving from featured player to, [SPEAKER_04]: guest store.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yes, our regular.

[SPEAKER_02]: You will be in the five-time record.

[SPEAKER_00]: Speaking of responsibilities, this is our responsibility to take a little break, and then we will come back and we'll talk about your end of the year wrap-up, dear listener.

[SPEAKER_00]: So this is welcome back the end of 2025.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we want to talk about kind of the way we feel like the year has ended.

[SPEAKER_00]: What we're going to do?

[SPEAKER_00]: is that we are going to record this in two parts.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right now, we are in June of 2025.

[SPEAKER_00]: Specifically, if you want to look at the date, it is June 23rd at 4 p.m.

Central time.

[SPEAKER_00]: The rear was recording us the solstice.

[SPEAKER_00]: Just pass the solstice.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we're going to record this part about the way we think the year would wind up.

[SPEAKER_00]: Then, at the actual end of the year, we're going to record how the year is actually ending.

[SPEAKER_00]: And part of the reason that we decided to do this is because the U.S.

as we recorded record this, the U.S.

has just bombed Iran.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so it's hard to do a kind of cheery.

[SPEAKER_00]: Hello, it's the end of the year.

[SPEAKER_03]: As someone who lives in Los Angeles this year has gone very smoothly and predictably so far.

[SPEAKER_03]: Nothing surprising has happened.

[SPEAKER_03]: Nothing alarming has happened.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's been very normal.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and so like we did one time try to re-record or like try to record our end of the year in advance and then we had to go back and re-record it, but we decided to treat that like a feature and not a bug this year.

[SPEAKER_06]: the saying, you know, if you want to, if you want to make God laugh, tell him all about your plans.

[SPEAKER_06]: And so this is, this is us telling, telling a joke that's just gonna have, just gonna have God in stitches about about how we think, 2025 will wrap up for us.

[SPEAKER_06]: And then in a few months, we'll [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and part of the thought process with this is that this is something that will happen to you over the course of your career.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're talking about big global events right now, but over the course of your career as you heard when Dan was talking about his writing process and when we were talking about the business from the craft book that [SPEAKER_00]: that sometimes you think you've got a plan and you think you know how it's going to go and then you have to do a reset.

[SPEAKER_00]: So this is kind of like this is something that it's worth doing when you're listening to this to think okay well let me think about how I think my next six months are going to go and then see where I am.

[SPEAKER_00]: So can I start?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, please do have.

[SPEAKER_06]: I am working right now on a bonus story for Schluck Mercenary Book 19, a function of firepower, which we plan to launch a kick starter for later this year.

[SPEAKER_06]: When I say later this year, like somewhere in the [SPEAKER_06]: August to October timeframe.

[SPEAKER_06]: I don't have exact dates, but the plan for my year is finished this bonus story, finished the last of the sketched editions and the sketchcard deliverables for the book 18 Project.

[SPEAKER_06]: I just got a lot of pictures to draw for people, and once that's done, [SPEAKER_06]: And then this whole book launch project kickstarter project, which will take us through to the end of the year.

[SPEAKER_06]: And that is how I'm going to be spending probably 60 to 70% of my productive time.

[SPEAKER_06]: And the balance of it I'm going to spend noodling on [SPEAKER_06]: Maybe something silly maybe something spooky I don't know yet, but I'm I'm gonna pick and I have I have several choices that I like [SPEAKER_00]: So I'll go next, so I'll talk about, you know, the plans that I know and then the things that I'm like, maybe I'm wrapping up edits on a book that I'm going to be handing to my agent and so what I'm hoping is that when we record this this again in December.

[SPEAKER_00]: that I will be able to say, yes, and we've sold that book by agents sending it out to market.

[SPEAKER_00]: But there's also an equal possibility that I'll say, well, it's been sent out.

[SPEAKER_00]: We've gotten a number of rejections or that I'll say, we haven't heard back from anybody.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't actually know what that's going to look like.

[SPEAKER_00]: I have a new book that is coming out October that will have come out October 21st which is a science fiction noir called Saga and that called apprehension from Saga.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's an experiment that they're doing, it's one of those doubles, and I'm really hoping that people will be excited by it.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that when I come on in December that everyone, all of you, dear listeners, will have listened to it.

[SPEAKER_00]: But it may also because it's an experiment, you know, flop.

[SPEAKER_00]: Again, I hope that by the time we roll around in December, I've actually finished that book and then then there's the stuff that I don't know there's and I'm I'm going to not go into details about this.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I will say that the Wednesday before we came here.

[SPEAKER_00]: I had a family member enter hospice, but it's also the kind of hospice that could be with us for a while.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're not in crisis yet.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're just getting extra help.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't have any idea what the rest of my year is going to look like.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then the world is on fire and I don't know, like my husband and I have been talking about.

[SPEAKER_00]: Do we need to think about moving out of the country, but we can't, you know, like there's a bunch of there's so many different moving pieces right now.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, my own strategy at the moment is just to take things, you know, the old cliche one day at a time, but it is, it's very much like breaking things down in just smaller pieces.

[SPEAKER_00]: What can I do today to just move forward towards the goals as if I can achieve the goals.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, for me, I think, you know, it's hard to predict how the next response of my life we're gonna go at any given point in time, but, you know, I'm coming out of a period of particular disruption for me, a lot of it brought on to myself by choosing to move across the country, but there's just been lots of different things that I have managed to disrupt my normal flow of work and my normal process.

[SPEAKER_03]: And so, I'm in a little bit of a mode of rebuilding right now.

[SPEAKER_03]: on the agenting side, you know, really I'm hoping and this is a cold shot again because it's all very, very mobile, but I'm in a position where I have a little bit more bandwidth than I've had recently.

[SPEAKER_03]: So looking to try and find a couple new people to work with, take on a couple new clients over the next few months and, you know, would love to see where we're at this fall if there's something in there that could be placed with publisher or at least having stuff in development.

[SPEAKER_03]: So, you know, expanding my business is one thing I'm really looking [SPEAKER_03]: which is something I haven't done in quite a while.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, there's been people I've taken on here in there when the situation made sense, but I haven't been really actively looking in a minute.

[SPEAKER_03]: So, sort of the back half of this year being a little bit more focused on starting to see what's out there and sort of...

[SPEAKER_03]: see what I'm interested in right now and trying to find a couple of people to work with.

[SPEAKER_03]: That's my primary goal on a personal level.

[SPEAKER_03]: I have a side project, a side creator project that I've been developing for a long time now.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's been in the works for about two years.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not going to say what it is yet because I don't think we'll have an announcement in the year.

[SPEAKER_03]: We're looking to launch it sometime next year.

[SPEAKER_03]: But a big component of the creative lift is fingers crossed.

[SPEAKER_03]: If everything goes smoothly, we'll be happening next month.

[SPEAKER_03]: So that is I think there's occupying a lot of my mind is looking yet heading into that project and doing a lot of the initial wave of that work.

[SPEAKER_03]: and then figuring out, oh god, what have we done?

[SPEAKER_03]: How do we make this work down?

[SPEAKER_03]: So, you know, on the personal side of my life, this side project is going to encapsulate a lot of my attention and a lot of my focus in terms of creative energy and then professionally continuing to push forward and expand my business a little bit.

[SPEAKER_04]: Awesome.

[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, so I work with Brandon Sanderson, which means that a lot of the projects I'm working on are secret, but it also means that I can't call them secret projects because that has a very loaded meaning with Brandon's stuff because of his giant Kickstarter.

[SPEAKER_04]: And I don't want to give anyone the wrong impression, so I'm going to call them redacted [SPEAKER_04]: Jeff, it needs to be finished this summer.

[SPEAKER_04]: If it's not finished by the time we record again, it will be embarrassing and bad for me.

[SPEAKER_04]: Redacted Project B, my writing part of it should be done by December.

[SPEAKER_04]: So that should be done as well by the time we record.

[SPEAKER_04]: Redacted Project C, [SPEAKER_04]: If I get a chance to start on it this year, I will be very excited.

[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know if I will, I'm going to go ahead and put a stake in the ground now and say, I will start outlining that project before we record again.

[SPEAKER_04]: We'll see if I follow through.

[SPEAKER_04]: Redacted project D is ongoing.

[SPEAKER_04]: I have no idea when my portion of that will be done, but we're working on it.

[SPEAKER_04]: Now, the stuff that I can talk to you about, my own work, we are in the process of finally years and years later, putting together a print edition of a night of black or darkness, which is my historical vampire comedy and those should be available.

[SPEAKER_04]: Soon, I think we're going to get them print on demand sometime this summer and ebook and such and then have physical copies that we'll be selling at conventions later in the year like next season.

[SPEAKER_06]: So the time this episode, airs, theoretically.

[SPEAKER_04]: You will have enjoyed the print edition list of yes.

[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_04]: That's the goal.

[SPEAKER_04]: I've got a YA horror novel that I have been [UNKNOWN]: You [SPEAKER_04]: don't know if I will have time to get to that because as I said, there were so many other redacted projects that I'm doing with Brandon.

[SPEAKER_04]: But I would love to be able to get that one.

[SPEAKER_04]: That one is called the window that can never be closed and it will take more time than I have to finish revisions on it this year.

[SPEAKER_04]: But I want to have started them.

[SPEAKER_04]: So that's the layout of my next [SPEAKER_02]: Nice.

[SPEAKER_02]: I will just say that in my spreadsheet, I give all my projects code names for two reasons.

[SPEAKER_02]: One, if I ever show anyone this spreadsheet, I'm not breaking in.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: And also so that I can give them silly names.

[SPEAKER_02]: So ABC and the I'm like, what if it was projects come gullier?

[SPEAKER_02]: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, [SPEAKER_02]: I think you're not remember the other old-timey family newsle was the the one that set us off as well.

[SPEAKER_03]: Wouldn't it be a swaggle or a swaggle or a swaggle?

[SPEAKER_03]: We spent too much time on the internet before we started to record.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, there were many in old Americana jokes happening.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yes, but you look up Honeyfuggle on your own.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, we got a little Honeyfuggle.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I will say that I have several projects going, but I think that the big thing for me is that I'm moving.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I have been in Texas for the last four years and in a couple of months, I am moving to the West Coast.

[SPEAKER_02]: and I am just sort of as the beginning of a figure out where I want to live next project, where I'm staying places three or four months at a time to see what place I want to live, which is a thing you could do when you just have a cat.

[SPEAKER_02]: And so I'm starting on the west coast and seeing how that goes and then who knows where I'm going next, which is really exciting for me [SPEAKER_02]: change your context, you know, and that will like shift other things that you're doing.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, like there are many reasons to leave Texas, Texas is always texting on things, but also I think for me a person who grew up in a walk, a really walkable kind of [SPEAKER_02]: city near city and Washington, D.C.

[SPEAKER_02]: I have missed in the heat of Texas being able to walk around and so I'm trying to find places with more temperate climate so that I leave my house and don't become as shut and workaholic.

[SPEAKER_02]: And so I'm trying to live more centrally in the city and do things that will help me get out of my house and get into the world.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that will really help me like shake things up personally if nothing else.

[SPEAKER_02]: And that'll affect all the projects I'm doing.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I think that is a thing that I'm most excited about.

[SPEAKER_02]: The other thing I will, I'm going to put forward is one is a lie and one is true.

[SPEAKER_02]: So the lie is that like I will send a newsletter out.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not going to do it.

[SPEAKER_02]: that I do it.

[SPEAKER_02]: I might eventually send out one newsletter and two is that I would like to get a story sold.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I want to get a story sold that I think I can actually do.

[SPEAKER_02]: The newsletter is hilarious because every two months I revise half of the letter to be like, hi, y'all coming you from June and then I never finished the rest of it, but who knows?

[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe I will surprise myself and in my new context I will do things [SPEAKER_03]: I'm tagging on to a newsletter lie.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm also going to send a piece of what you said for me this year.

[SPEAKER_00]: I like so many half written drugs.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like you were the one who's like you everyone should have a newsletter and I think you should have a newsletter.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'd never said you have to send it regularly.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: All right.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'll help you.

[SPEAKER_00]: I just want our listeners to know that writing excuses sends out a newsletter regularly, which often includes updates from these fine people here.

[SPEAKER_00]: And my newsletter is regular and do you know how I manage that?

[SPEAKER_00]: I hired people because I also have good intentions about newsletters that will never happen.

[SPEAKER_04]: Donna and I looked at our thing at the beginning of June and realized I hadn't sent a newsletter out since February.

[SPEAKER_04]: So.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's not it said one in June.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, not early.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was too late.

[SPEAKER_06]: I'm so excited.

[SPEAKER_06]: You.

[SPEAKER_06]: February of 2025?

[SPEAKER_06]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_06]: That's.

[SPEAKER_06]: That's like not late.

[SPEAKER_00]: You're in great.

[SPEAKER_04]: Fine.

[SPEAKER_00]: All right.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we are going to take a break now.

[SPEAKER_00]: And when we come back after the break, we will have time traveled to December.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it will be the actual end of the year.

[SPEAKER_06]: Hello, we have time-traveled the old fashioned way moving forward in time at the rate of one second per second.

[SPEAKER_06]: You had a two minute break, but we had six months.

[SPEAKER_06]: It's December of 2025 and we are now recording the final part of our final episode of season 20.

[SPEAKER_06]: In this segment, we're going to check back in with Dan and reflect on how our best laid plans have faired.

[SPEAKER_06]: And speaking of plans, we planned to have Mary Robinette with us for this recording, but she's traveling.

[SPEAKER_06]: Fortunately, she's recorded a nice mini segment that producer Emma and editor Alex will splice into this episode.

[SPEAKER_06]: So, via Emma and Alex, here is Mary Robinette.

[SPEAKER_01]: Here we are at the end of 2025 and as you can probably tell, ending the year by getting over a cold.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm going to give you a quick rundown of the things that I mentioned when we recorded before the break, the novel that I said I was wrapping at its own and giving to my agent finished those at its, it has not yet sold, it's been shopping around.

[SPEAKER_01]: So we'll see where that goes.

[SPEAKER_01]: The book tour for apprehension was actually a lot of fun.

[SPEAKER_01]: I toured with Sam J.

Miller.

[SPEAKER_01]: We had a bunch of cities.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'll see what went with me on some of those people who are definitely more excited to see my cat.

[SPEAKER_01]: She didn't go to the actual events, but [SPEAKER_01]: She was on tour with me and that actually has been one of the things I did not have on my bingo card at all was that my cat has gone viral and I love LC but she is now officially more famous than I am.

[SPEAKER_01]: She has as a record this 102,000 followers on Instagram alone and like 62,000 on Facebook it is crazy but it's fun ride.

[SPEAKER_01]: The novel that I said I was in the process of outlining, I set that aside, and I'm working on a novella, actually about LC, because it feels like time to take advantage of my hats by reality.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm nearly finished with that.

[SPEAKER_01]: I should have that finished in the next day or two.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's only about three, five thousand words away from the end of that.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then I mentioned the family member was in hospice.

[SPEAKER_01]: That family member is actually doing much better on hospice.

[SPEAKER_01]: I will tell you, I will give you the advice that I was given years ago, that if you ever have a doctor that offers hospice to just say yes immediately, because it just gets more help.

[SPEAKER_01]: And my family member is actually doing so well on hospice that make graduate from it, which on the one hand, yay, on the other hand, it does mean losing some of that additional assistance, but that's basically where I'm at and looking forward to the next season.

[SPEAKER_06]: Wow, I really wish I could hear that.

[SPEAKER_06]: I've got it to awesome.

[SPEAKER_04]: I heard that it was great.

[SPEAKER_06]: It was awesome.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_06]: It'll provide a brilliant springboard for Dongwon, Aaron and I.

[SPEAKER_06]: So let's do that.

[SPEAKER_06]: I'm going to let Dongwon go first.

[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, tying right back into a marathon, and it was saying, and just thematically picking right up on that.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you know, I, before this, we all got a chance to go back and listen to what we actually said six months ago.

[SPEAKER_03]: So I got to dip back into that and realize that I had completely forgotten all the goals that I had set for myself.

[SPEAKER_03]: However, in spite of having forgotten it, I remain consistent that I manage to address most of them, I think.

[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I think that you said it, but you did it anyway.

[SPEAKER_03]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_03]: So, you know, it must have been on the stun sum level.

[SPEAKER_03]: character is who you are when no one's taking notes exactly.

[SPEAKER_03]: So, you know, it's been a very busy back after the year for me.

[SPEAKER_03]: So, in quite hectic on a number of levels, you know, in terms of the work side, kind of exactly what I had hoped to do.

[SPEAKER_03]: Took on a couple new clients, which has been very exciting.

[SPEAKER_03]: I haven't sent anything out yet, but those projects are getting prepped to go up early next year.

[SPEAKER_03]: And been able to lay some pre-ground work in terms of talking to some editors, finding some people interested.

[SPEAKER_03]: Both these writers are fairly established in different categories.

[SPEAKER_03]: So it's been a really exciting strategic opportunity to figure that out.

[SPEAKER_03]: I also opened two submissions for the first time in a very, very long time.

[SPEAKER_03]: only in a couple categories, so really just looking for epic fantasy and horror right now and been getting a ton of queries in that are all extraordinarily good.

[SPEAKER_03]: I've requested too many things and have way too much reading right now, but it's fun.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's been really nice to dig into it and been catching up on some competitive reading almost happening on the market and just have had a run of like absolute bangers, been reading stuff I've been loving and having [SPEAKER_03]: And it's just nice to remember how much I love this genre and how much I love this category, both on the fantasy side and on the horror side, I would love to read some big science fiction next, so on the hunt for one of those.

[SPEAKER_03]: Um, and then I mentioned I was working on a creative side project.

[SPEAKER_03]: I have continued to jam on that.

[SPEAKER_03]: The big thing I referenced in terms of that is going to be a new podcast.

[SPEAKER_03]: Again, I just don't want to talk too much about what it is specifically yet, but keep an eye on my channels for an announcement sometime.

[SPEAKER_03]: Then I've a couple of months here.

[SPEAKER_03]: But the recording for that went extraordinarily well, had a great time doing it, it's a very big creative lift that has been very fun to do.

[SPEAKER_03]: And end up spinning off a side project to the side project as inevitably happens.

[SPEAKER_03]: So pretty much all of my nonwork time is getting taken up by those.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, yeah, it's been a very exciting, fulfilling and fruitful time the past few months.

[SPEAKER_03]: The world continues to be somewhat chaotic, but on a personal level, things are going well.

[SPEAKER_06]: I think it's really cool that you, you seriously cool that you managed to forget everything you said you were going to do.

[SPEAKER_04]: that deep stone part of your soul that is immobile immobile immobile immobile see I'm in the same boat I could not remember any of the goals I set and also completed most of them and in my case I think it's that I was aiming really low.

[SPEAKER_04]: So it was just easy.

[SPEAKER_04]: Would you like to tell us about it?

[SPEAKER_04]: Sure.

[SPEAKER_04]: I talked you know five minutes ago when we when you heard the other segment.

[SPEAKER_04]: about redacted projects ABC and D.

[SPEAKER_04]: And the good news is, A, B, and C are more or less exactly where I expected them to be at this point in the year.

[SPEAKER_04]: Redacted Project B, I should have turned in a revision for a week and a half ago, and I did not.

[SPEAKER_04]: And that probably won't happen until January, and I have come to peace with that.

[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know if my editor has.

[SPEAKER_04]: we'll see.

[SPEAKER_04]: Redacted Project D, I genuinely have no idea what I was talking about.

[SPEAKER_04]: This is the product of the Redacted Project.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, this is the code of the code.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's why I give them code names that I know.

[SPEAKER_04]: I think Lee, I remember they were like, do you remember what Aaron Swankle was?

[SPEAKER_02]: I do always swam Lee from the charge at work each month.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, Roheesla, the several gems.

[SPEAKER_04]: I can't remember how many gems Roheesla had.

[SPEAKER_04]: Seven, seven, whatever.

[SPEAKER_04]: I have no idea what secret project redacted project D may have been.

[SPEAKER_04]: So let's all just pretend like either I finished it or it didn't matter because I know that no one at Dr.

Idy still is expecting any other projects from me other than the three I'm aware of.

[SPEAKER_04]: So, hooray.

[SPEAKER_04]: I also said that I was going to start revising my horror novel, my YA horror, which I have not done.

[SPEAKER_04]: I might try to do a little of that before the end of the year just so I can say that I did it.

[SPEAKER_04]: But no, I haven't had a chance to get to that, but yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: Other than that, I think the goals have mostly been met and on top of that, I am doing two.

[SPEAKER_04]: I'm actually doing three gaming retreats next year, one writing retreat, a bunch of other stuff.

[SPEAKER_04]: I'm going to so many cons.

[SPEAKER_04]: I'd [SPEAKER_04]: I grew tired of traveling back when I was doing Comic-Cons constantly and then COVID came along and I didn't have to do cons anymore and next year I'm doing a bunch of cons and I'm not entirely happy about it, but that will be my next year.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I got tired of just hearing all this.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: You want?

[SPEAKER_02]: I was like, ooh, fun.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and you have a you have a Colin in Doran so that I simply do not, but anyways, here I'm actually going to take this moment to pitch one of my gaming retreats, so next year in the summer of.

[SPEAKER_04]: 26, first week of July, I am doing a Mistborn RPG week long event where every attendee gets a seat at a 5% table with a professional GM and will play through a Mistborn campaign that I am writing along with Lydia Sun, who is the lead designer on Mistborn RPG and with Tara, I think Freeman, I don't remember Tara's last name, and I'm sorry, but she's awesome too.

[SPEAKER_04]: Anyway, everyone, come to that.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's called campaign supernova.

[SPEAKER_04]: Hell yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Nice.

[SPEAKER_02]: I hope there's a missed there.

[SPEAKER_02]: Just in general.

[SPEAKER_04]: That's the over seeer.

[SPEAKER_04]: Go around to the tables and gently missed them all.

[SPEAKER_03]: Just give them some hope machines for the whole thing.

[SPEAKER_04]: The new Miss Bobble RPG, if you can see the other tables, you get your money back.

[SPEAKER_06]: Okay, can I make Aaron go next?

[SPEAKER_06]: Sure.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_06]: I knew you've got some exciting news, right?

[SPEAKER_06]: I like this.

[SPEAKER_06]: You're exciting news.

[SPEAKER_02]: Sure, I mean, let's start with what I said I was going to do my favorite thing about looking back at the transcript.

[SPEAKER_02]: I didn't listen to it, but I looked at it.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I said that some of the things that I was saying were lies and it was a lie.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I said, I'm going to lie and say I'm going to get a news letter out.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I, it was just as much a lie as I knew it would be when I said it.

[SPEAKER_03]: So, oh, yeah, I was like, I've been sending news letters.

[SPEAKER_03]: So, yeah, I'm sending you a few percent of my news letters.

[SPEAKER_02]: There you go.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I think when I said I was lying, you were like, I'm going to shame you about a new letter.

[SPEAKER_03]: Now, we're like, how about that?

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, shaming errands, side-quest achieved.

[SPEAKER_02]: Mist is now being a feeling misty.

[SPEAKER_02]: But now, so I did that, and I also moved, so that was a big one, which is that I moved to the West Coast from Texas.

[SPEAKER_02]: I said I was going to do it, and I did do it.

[SPEAKER_02]: And this is where I think the second lie comes in, which is the lie I'm always telling myself, which is that the amount of time something takes [SPEAKER_02]: proportional to like how many syllables it is like I'm like move wow it's you can say that so fast so therefore it's like a really small process it's only for tiny letters but it turns out moving is in fact.

[SPEAKER_02]: long and it takes a lot of time and energy and I am still surrounded by boxes and furniture that I need to assemble.

[SPEAKER_02]: And so my thing that I thought would be true which was finishing a story is also a lie because of my lie of thinking how quickly I would be able to just do all the stuff that I was going to do even though I was taking on this extra work.

[SPEAKER_02]: So what I'm hoping for in 2026 is to like learn the underlying truth which is that it's better to actually be as honest as you can be with how much things are going to take like I'm a big fan recently of thinking about systems versus individuals like a lot of times we put things on ourselves we say like if I was just better and faster and stronger and worked harder this thing would be done versus like.

[SPEAKER_02]: Moving is a systemic thing that's going to change everything around me and I don't now how it's going to affect me and like sometimes you just can't outrun this you can't run the train you know and the train is your life and so trying to figure out sort of what is the train and what's the part that I'm you know running like what's my individual effort and what's me actually dealing with the world is something that I'm going to try to figure out.

[SPEAKER_02]: in this new location.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I think that's sort of the biggest thing, uh, someone who gets what, yeah, who has moved three times in the last 18 months.

[SPEAKER_03]: I cannot over well.

[SPEAKER_03]: How disruptive moving is to every part of your life.

[SPEAKER_03]: So, you know, I think I had to learn kind of the same lesson, too, of just like getting hit by three trains in a row, right?

[SPEAKER_03]: You know, it just made things very hard.

[SPEAKER_03]: to accomplish for a second there.

[SPEAKER_03]: So I'll all submit to you for this period as you get back on your feet here.

[SPEAKER_04]: You know, I haven't recorded with you folks since June or July whenever we did the other one.

[SPEAKER_04]: And I forgot that you all bring such wise nuggets of knowledge.

[SPEAKER_04]: I was just [SPEAKER_04]: Making jokes and telling people that come to my retreat and here Aaron has this valuable life lesson for everybody.

[SPEAKER_02]: Look, it was darker to the train.

[SPEAKER_02]: I had time to do.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Not time to write, but time to think.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_06]: They're actually railway gravel.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: That's always down there.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's crushed up wisdom.

[SPEAKER_02]: Also, that kind of goes hard.

[SPEAKER_02]: Crushed up wisdom, that's the name of my perfume or a band or I have no idea what I'm doing.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's a great strain of some sort of drug.

[SPEAKER_04]: I'm going to do a line of crushed up wisdom.

[SPEAKER_02]: Pardon me.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I do some crush up wisdom and finish my time.

[SPEAKER_03]: I got that.

[SPEAKER_03]: I think it was good for you right here.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, [SPEAKER_02]: that while so I moved randomly, it had nothing new with anything, but after I moved, because sometimes this is the way the world works, I ended up getting a job that will keep me here on the West Coast in the Pacific Northwest for a while, which is that I've joined Dungeons and Dragons as a game designer, so I'll be working [SPEAKER_02]: for Wizzards of the Coast.

[SPEAKER_02]: I will take this opportunity to say that absolutely nothing.

[SPEAKER_02]: I say reflects on Wizzards of the Coast.

[SPEAKER_02]: If they thought it would, they would not have hired me.

[SPEAKER_02]: So please, everything I say, don't go asking them for crushed up wisdom.

[SPEAKER_02]: They don't have it.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm so excited for the 5E module, the gems of Rheesla.

[SPEAKER_03]: That's funny, yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: That's 20, 20, 7.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, how quickly can I get myself fired?

[SPEAKER_02]: But one of the reasons that I'm really excited about this other than it's general excitingness is that it actually consolidates a lot of the work that I was doing for many different people and I'm hoping like gives me time to actually relax a little bit more.

[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe play some of the games and read some of the books on my backlog and actually just take it a little easier and I will say that it's like feels weird it feels weird and I this is my last piece of crushed up was done before I run out of my supply but like when you've been running downhill in real life and you hit a street it feels like there's all this way not you.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it's not because you're not running fast, it's just that like there's a feeling of going down hill that's a little bit out of control and when you're back in control, it can feel odd your body doesn't feel like it normally does running a straight path and so a lot of what I'm doing now is getting used to what is it like to run a straight path where I'm not chasing things down fill and then how do I do that without it feeling like wait, but instead feeling like something that I'm in control of and where I can decide where my feet go next so.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm really excited for you in this next phase of things.

[SPEAKER_06]: I think that means it's my turn.

[SPEAKER_06]: I said that I was going to finish some sketched editions and sketch cards and a bonus story and then start work on some spooky stuff.

[SPEAKER_06]: Short version.

[SPEAKER_06]: I am much further behind than I wanted to be.

[SPEAKER_06]: And so the spooky stuff remains purely head canon.

[SPEAKER_06]: But I finished all the sketch editions, I finished all the sketch cards, and I'm still working on the bonus story.

[SPEAKER_06]: I realized that when I'm restricted on page count, and I want to tell a story that has like some important things that need to be gotten across.

[SPEAKER_06]: And artist Howard is yelling at, at script writer Howard for, for teeing this up because I did not make it, I make my job easy.

[SPEAKER_06]: The, the big change I think during the last six months, my former boss's boss is boss.

[SPEAKER_06]: Back when I worked at Novel, Eric Schmidt was the CEO, and he went on to be CEO at Google, which was a much better gig for him.

[SPEAKER_06]: He recently said in an interview, in order to be productive, stop doing things to prevent yourself from being bored.

[SPEAKER_06]: if you've got like a little mobile game that you noodle on or doomsgrowing or or whatever these and he was talking about you know the mindless sorts of things that we will do because we don't like boredom he said don't do those let yourself be bored so that so that you can be creative so [SPEAKER_06]: and hard quit everything.

[SPEAKER_06]: And it's several games that I played regularly, both mobile and PC.

[SPEAKER_06]: And I just stopped.

[SPEAKER_06]: I did say goodbye before I left and explained to people, it's not you, it's me.

[SPEAKER_06]: And it's because I have too much else to do and I need to make the time for it.

[SPEAKER_06]: And honestly, it's been, [SPEAKER_06]: It's been wonderful.

[SPEAKER_06]: I can't recommend it to everybody because I need people to read web comics.

[SPEAKER_03]: Internally cultivating boredom is incredibly powerful though.

[SPEAKER_03]: And it doesn't mean they have to quit everything called Turkey, but like just making space in your schedule to sit and be bored.

[SPEAKER_03]: I think can be just so generative.

[SPEAKER_04]: Mm-hmm.

[SPEAKER_04]: Well, and we learned the lesson on long car trips, road trips with my kids.

[SPEAKER_04]: We used to try to entertain them and keep them occupied, and it was just a nightmare.

[SPEAKER_04]: They were always inpatient, and one year for, you know, family vacation.

[SPEAKER_04]: We're just like, you know what?

[SPEAKER_04]: No, there's not going to be any movies in the car.

[SPEAKER_04]: We're not going to hand you tablets.

[SPEAKER_04]: You're just going to be bored.

[SPEAKER_04]: And the road trips have been so wonderful ever since.

[SPEAKER_04]: Because they learned how to entertain themselves.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's great.

[SPEAKER_04]: They learned how to think their own thoughts.

[SPEAKER_04]: Terrible.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yep.

[SPEAKER_06]: Anyway, so what does my 2027 hold?

[SPEAKER_06]: Well, I guess I got to finish the bonus story.

[SPEAKER_06]: I got to finish the stuff that I said I was going to do in 2026.

[SPEAKER_06]: But I'm optimistic.

[SPEAKER_06]: I think it's going to work.

[SPEAKER_06]: I'm not getting younger.

[SPEAKER_06]: This, the whole, oh, if I could only work harder or longer or faster.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, you know what?

[SPEAKER_06]: The days when I worked longer, harder and faster than I work now are behind me.

[SPEAKER_06]: And I need to admit that.

[SPEAKER_06]: and I need to come to a piece with that and I haven't, but give me some time.

[SPEAKER_06]: So there's our report on how our mid 2025 projections for the rest of our 2025 would go.

[SPEAKER_06]: I think it's time for us to send you home with homework.

[SPEAKER_04]: Oh yeah, baby.

[SPEAKER_04]: Here's my homework.

[SPEAKER_04]: In the time since we recorded last, I discovered that there is apparently a twisted metal TV show.

[SPEAKER_04]: And I thenched both seasons of it and I adore it.

[SPEAKER_04]: I love it so much in particular season two.

[SPEAKER_04]: That show is able to combine ridiculous comedy with over-the-top violence, with genuinely touching and poignant human emotion in a way that [SPEAKER_04]: you rarely ever see anywhere.

[SPEAKER_04]: And so my homework is go watch at least some of twisted metal.

[SPEAKER_04]: Before warned, it swears a lot.

[SPEAKER_04]: There's a lot of gore in it.

[SPEAKER_04]: So maybe you won't watch the first little bit.

[SPEAKER_04]: If that's not your cup of tea, then I'm going to recommend I've recently gotten into interactive fiction.

[SPEAKER_04]: The book of hungry names is absolutely phenomenal.

[SPEAKER_04]: So one of those two things go and consume that media and learn what you can from them because they are master storytellers at doing very difficult tight ropes of different emotions all at the same time.

[SPEAKER_04]: I love them go do do that.

[SPEAKER_06]: Oh, one more bit of homework.

[SPEAKER_06]: your hosts have had many opportunities to thank Dan and to wish him well.

[SPEAKER_06]: We want you to have that same opportunity.

[SPEAKER_06]: We've created a publicly accessible Patreon post.

[SPEAKER_06]: Thank you to Dan Wells for you our listeners to share your thoughts.

[SPEAKER_06]: Things you've learned from Dan, appreciation, you wish to express even your favorite stories about Dan.

[SPEAKER_06]: I'm not allowed to call those [SPEAKER_06]: Go to go to patreon.com slash writing excuses and then look for thank you to Dan Wells.

[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, and I'm supposed to say your out of excuses now go tell me how awesome I am.

[SPEAKER_00]: Writing excuses has been brought to you by our listeners, patrons and friends.

[SPEAKER_00]: For this episode, your hosts were Mary Robinette Koal, Dongwon Song, Erin Roberts, Dan Wells and Howard Taylor.

[SPEAKER_00]: This episode was engineered by Marshall Card Jr., mastered by Alex Jackson, and produced by Emma Reynolds.

[SPEAKER_00]: For more information, visit writing excuses.com.