Hey, hey, hey, or should I say ho ho ho?

It's me Matt Rogers And in the words of another Christmas icon, it's time.

I'm back with my new nationwide tour, Matt Rogers Christmas in December.

Yes, it's time to remember when Christmas is.

I'm hitting the road all of December with Henrykoperski and the whole band performing my album Have You Heard Of Christmas, along with a bunch of other little surprises.

So if you're in La San Francisco, Seattle, Portland, Philadelphia, d C.

New York City, Boston, Toronto, Chicago, or yes, Orlando, Florida, I want to see your gorgeous ass.

Go to Matt rogersofficial dot com or head to my Instagram at Matt Rogers though and hit the link in my bio.

Until then, stream the album, get your look together and get ready to deck the damn halls at a venue near you Christmas in December.

You in my heart XO XO Santa Boy, look mare, oh oh, I see.

You my own and look over there is that the culture yess wow.

Loves culture ding dun't culture cult calling.

You really spaced out your your syllables there, you know I'm really thinking about the sounds I'm making and being so intentional about them because I'm actually reporting to you live from.

Grand Rapids, Michigan.

Let's go.

I'm in the home state of one Henriko Perski and we are what rehearsing for the Christmas in disbrator and celebrating Thanksgiving.

You know, there are some celebrations there definitely is breaking of bread.

Oh, my favorite thing to break, well, one of the best things you can break, to be honest, Well, the thing that you break and people are happy that it's broken.

And that's a role of culture.

Number sixty seven.

Yes, bread, bread, that's the thing that you break and people are happy that it's broken because everyone's going to be full.

The best thing to be outside of happy parentheses generally, yes, I want to check in with my girl, happy parentheses.

Generally, I couldn't be happy.

She ate that.

Yeah, let's talk about Wicked for Good, a film in which you star.

Fifth Billing.

I said, let's get the sagnam.

Let me demystify some things for everybody.

So the way Billing works with these things is not at all commendate with someone's involvement.

Important disagree hard disagree.

It is a it is a thing that are the wonderful brokers, the people behind the scenes with these deals, and these contracts work out on your behalf trust and believe.

I was not out here fighting for billing over my incredible co co starts who inarguably do incredible, more important, more emotionally resonant work in this film.

Let's just let's just leave that there.

And I'm sorry if that pisses people off.

It's not my fault.

It's just how the bits works.

Okay, Can I say something?

Can I say something here?

Can I offer something back?

I can confidently say you were my fifth favorite thing about the movie, So I'm fifth bills.

But MICHELLEO and Jeff Goldloom are whatever, like seventh and eighth, right, Yeah, but.

Everyone knows about the with and the and the W and the end are only given to people of great esteeme like there.

But basically, if you are and blank, what they're saying is thank you for deigning to do this.

Yes, no matter what movie you're in, if you are in the and Jeff Goldbloom in this case, spot it means thank you king, thank you kidding.

It's actually different culture speak for thank you kidding, your name means thank you kidding or and there's something very powerful about if it's your name on the credit, and then what follows is as the cowardly lion, oh absolutely period, or.

As doctor Dilloman.

Yes, And that's another cultural way of saying thank you, King to Peter Dinklin and Coleman Domingo one hundred percent.

I would say that with is also it's like the silver Medal, Like if it's with Michelle Yo, it's like thank you, queen, thank you, really truly thank you.

But also like you're in the cast, Jeff Goldbe occupies verified air as the end, and the only thing more valuable than that is of course and well yes, which is of course and introducing oh, and introducing means we are ready to really say something.

So here's what I'll say.

There wasn't really that that we didn't get that in this movie, but that doesn't mean there wasn't great esteem in the casting.

And when I say when I saw you fifth Build, I did the math and I said he was my fifth favorite thing.

What were the what were they?

Four?

Number one?

Number one My favorite thing is the sex slanket.

That is number one.

My favorite thing and covering and to get the PG rating.

You know, they shot an alternate take where Jonathan Bailey's nipples were covered.

Let me tell you something.

We got no nipple, We got all slank it.

I I log on and I'm like, what did you want?

Did you want quivering quivering Cynthia Rivo's ALPHAbook green?

Do you want her quivering with the talent in front of her, dropping the towel like she's Kate Winslet in Titanic.

No, you need this to be PG.

It's wicked.

You absolute freaks, You absolute freak.

Also you want to say thrust.

This bitch has been living in a tree for the past twelve Tige turns.

She is cozy, she's comfortable, she's cold, she's out, there's no infras.

She's comfortable, she's comfortable in her skin, green, cozy with who she is slanking Bin down, Bin out?

Rewrite it Beyonce, No, I'm saying.

And then she topped pierrero pegged his hole.

You know what happened if Johnny had his way rewrite the script?

So that was number one.

What an amazing premiere that was in New York.

I was so happy, you were there.

Oh my god, that was That was the biggest premiere that I think I'll ever go to.

It say, is really so major?

They I mean, they just they go for it because it is a spectacle.

Wait, can I say my other top five thing to start?

And then you give me a BTS fact about all of them?

Okay, So one was a sex clanket.

Two Ariana Grande and Cynthia Arrivo at the Doors for Good.

Into the Doors.

I swear I think of you every single time.

I really am powerless to that song and that moment because I just think of you, my best friend, my best friend.

And I was sitting across the aisle from you at the premiere and we were sort of a part and I was like, oh, who can say?

And I was because I was a couple of rows behind you across the aisle, and I kept glancing over at you during that song.

I didn't want to look back because I didn't want it to be too emotional.

I didn't want to.

I don't want to very emotional for the both of us.

I love you so much.

Okay, so that's the door.

Oh, okay, BTS quick BTS fact about that.

Oh, there's there's a lot of chatter about how that was quote unquote improvised because that was that was said in that was maybe in an interview in passing.

So there's I guess that let's just clear something up.

There's no way to like improvise that a shot like that right now.

What I think what is maybe being lost is that it was found in rehearsals.

And there's a couple of things get lost, so this is this is understandable.

There's a kind of a sort of cost.

So like being Ari Cynthia and John im Chu and Alice Brooks, the amazing, amazing cinematographer.

I think they the four of them kind of found that together and so I think somehow the word improvised got thrown in and that just that just really confused people.

So that that's actual BTS.

Well, all I saw about.

It was Arianna saying that there were certain parties and listen, in filmmaking, there's always going to be certain party.

It's actually a rut of culture number nine and filming as going to be parties, and certain parties wanted to scene cut like after they saw a cut, and it was fought for and eventually it stated in and I'm so happy they did, because to me, that's that's that's the point, that's the story, that's kind of the point, you know what I mean.

So that number three a little bit of Ariana Grande peeking out during Thank Goodness, which I think is a conscious choice.

Yes, when all the confetti freezes in the air and Arianna as Glinda has her private moment, which, by the way, is one of my favorite things about the entire Wicket score is that moment in Thank Goodness.

And I thought that part was so nailed, like and I loved that the moment got so personal that I think is a little bit of a nod.

A little bit of Ariana Grande came out in the voice and the vocals.

Yeah, like it wasn't as resonant and performative.

And she killed that And I'll put her under my whole three like, she killed the entire movie, killed the entire movie, killed the entire movie from the second she heard she got the part until the second she finished it.

What did she say she was gonna take such good care of her?

And then number four, I'm gonna guess no good deed, you know, no good deed.

The fact that Cynthia can still you don't really get how far she is pushing it vocally and how I'm sorry, but no one else could do it like her, because no one could take it to the vocal places it goes.

That song is also so difficult to learn to sing.

And I got to go with them again.

Last night we saw it again and we watched No Good Dean, and we all just looked at each other and beamed because that song is so fucking good and Cynthia, no one can sing it like that and hold that stardom on screen, nobody.

And to end on a wide with the monkeys and come co.

In the background, they're just doing a lot of a lot of space, holding space as it were in that shot, and you can still hold the center.

Yeah, And I think a number five is me?

Oh sorry, number five is you?

No?

You were no, you wanted to slip something else in there.

No, I know what number five is because I came here with my top five.

I thought fifth, build my top five.

Fanny again, first of all, missus morrible.

I know that was improvised.

That was well, that was improvised, and no one we did not rehearse any of that.

Trust and believe did she just accidentally say missus horrible Brown.

Bless her heart.

I fucking love you.

She is incredible.

Give it.

Let's give it up for Bronwyn James.

Everybody.

She to you're Fanny.

I see you.

I know what it's like to stand next to this bitch on his left at all times, and I felt represented.

We switch sides every now and then, me and her.

Sometimes sometimes you and I switched side.

You're just comfortable on the right.

You just want to be on the right.

Sure I know this about you.

We that that was improvised.

She said, Missus, you cann't get you anything.

This is horrible.

And then of course I had to.

I had to.

I hadsus morrible.

She married married.

Shout out Fanny to day.

On the date of this recording, Sunday, November twenty third, is the last performance of Caje Kennedy, the Fanny in Wicked for the past three years on Broadway.

I got to meet her at a tight tea a couple of years ago.

Was so to the best place.

It's t t I have never seen so many fannies than when t TI is popping off.

Oh it's all fancy, but it was I got to meet her then she's incredible, and then tonight it was her last night on Broadway after three years of doing over three years, so so amazing, so proud of you.

What work, what a work ethic, what a schedule, what a talent?

Love you cache so so so cool.

Well, congrats to the whole team because the movie was a huge fucking hit.

Of course it was, of course it was.

I can't wait to see it be made into a theme park, specifically in Epic Universe, which, by the way, is popping off, filing permits, expanding grow.

They said, they said, let's make this.

What are you seeing?

I'm seeing things.

Let's just say, like, you know, I've had to go to my little coping mechanisms, and you know that one of them is going on like the theme park blogs and checking construction.

Yes, it's a soothing thing for me.

I love this during a stressful time and so a streffle book good.

Time, but like yes, stressed with good Okay, so you're you're you're seeing the permits.

Yeah, I mean I think unfortunately they're gonna go go kind of ham on Harry Potter, right, but we can we can hope for some stuff I want to see Zelda get built, and they have the rights.

Well, I think they're gonna wait for the movie to come out and then and then see it because and then the first the first look stills have been released and it looks very very interesting, a lot of melding of different eras of Zelda.

You got Breath of the Wild Zelda, like Zelda is in her Breath with the Wild giche, but while Link is in his like Twilight Princess Giche.

It's very I think I think we're gonna see something very new.

I guess Breath of the Wild would be what you'd want to see, right, yes, because it's the most recent and it kind of has the most feels the most cinematic in a lot of ways, Like it's just the scoring is very minimal.

It's like, I think they can do really interesting things with a filmed like a very Japanese but still Western quote unquote, like amalgamation.

Like there's something just so profound about those games, Like I would really love to see that be adopted.

But maybe maybe that's too much to ask because it is like a fucking seventy hour game, and how can you distill that to two hours?

But we'll see that is very exciting.

What else in the culture.

Well, I was just gonna say, like this world of Veelda that you describe, Yes, would it be possible to be on a boat that flies like a flying boat?

Could have?

You know what I'm saying, because I think that's what I want the Zelda ride to be.

I want to fly a boat through Zelda.

I'm trying to think there is there are flying things in just possibly it's very possible.

Will you will fly on a zonin device, which is it can be made into a boat.

Do you think that if we dream it it's possible?

Really?

Answer yes, but it depends.

Oh, I hate trepidation with which you respond, but I asked a question I should have been prepared for world answers.

My trepidation is not can cannot be held against your your naivete My God, that sentence has never been more true.

I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

It did not feel good to say I have.

Thought of myself as naive for like all week.

Isn't that such a gorgeous name?

Why are you naive?

Okay, So I'm I'm gonna speak on something I was naive to think that I could just like post photos of Razor and I and that people wouldn't be like, oh, it's a hard launch.

But I was just so excited that I met the most wonderful person and I was just like posting about my life and like then suddenly it was like, uh, oh, just Jared.

So I guess I was naive because I wasn't exactly ready for like any attention in that regard, because I didn't think people would care.

You're not thinking about that, You're not thinking about the attention.

No, I was not.

And so but now that it is out there, I feel I do.

I don't.

I recognize that some people listen to this podcast now as it's gotten a little bit more popular and are just like, oh, the guests or whatever, But like I do feel like we've had listeners for a very long time, and so I'm not just gonna like not bring up.

Of course, I'm definitely dating Fraser.

He's definitely the best, the best, and Bowen's met him.

I love him so much, and that seems to be the common refrain amongst all of our friends, and so God's that, you know, I adore the boy.

He's wonderful.

I love him.

And also that will leave me to Bravo com because this is the Heather Gay episode.

This is the Heather Gay episode.

Are true true Bestie.

Our true Bessie that we made in cam.

But I do want to say just some Bravo things because this is because people are from Bravo listening, yes, or Bravo fans, Bravo holics.

I ran into Melissa and Joe from Jersey.

I think the Teresa thing is real.

I think that that is genuinely a thing that they're doing like off camera.

I don't know what changed.

Congrats to Gia Judaie she won Special Forces.

I want to say congratulations.

That does not sound easy to me, the sentence blank one special Forces.

I'm on my feet.

I'm impressed.

I'm impressed.

And I met Dolores.

You met Oh my god.

You two are kindred spirits and that is a wonderful a woman, a wonderful person, wonderful.

She put her arm around me and she said, you get me.

And I was like, let me tell you something I do.

I was like, you remind me of and she goes, I know all your aunts and cousins growing up.

She's like, I understood when you said that, Like you really get me.

I was like, I'm walking arm in arm with.

Dolores misc Tanya, She's ugh or Traders Winner, Dolores ca what was the thing that she and she did with what's her face?

It's like she got marched, like text Dolores while she was talking to She texted Marge, Yeah, something Jackie had said.

Marge texted Dolores something Jackie had said about her while Dolores was talking to Jackie.

She immediately was like, you said this in the most like, oh, I wish I had that, and I will if that if I am confronted in that situation, I.

Will I will pull it.

Dolores, she is DELI and I think I publicly on video sort of like gawkeed at you or just sort of balked at you saying that Dolris is your favorite house stiff.

I was like, Dolores and I and I do take that back.

She makes total sense.

I think you were just surprised.

The thing is like, I'm so lived in with Dolores, I don't feel the need to be like mentioning all the time, like, oh, and by the way, I love Dolores, like Dolores is my family and sometimes family business is private business.

Yes, like sometimes family but and I've been to raise my voice.

Sometimes family business is private business.

My god, you're lived in with Dolores.

I am incredibly lived in in center girl.

I literally when I think of you two interacting, I see so much more than I think I see like a travel show.

Yes, I think I see you do it, and I see I see real collapse between you and Angie.

I was texting her as I was watching her fucking fingernail fall off or whatever it was on the yacht.

Remember, like when she was in she was in the costume and like she like slammed the door in her finger.

I mean, yes, the pain it felt.

I felt it.

I felt the painful.

We are connected, And I texted.

I was like, Angie, this is the hardest thing I've seen in a long time.

Yeah, watching you in pain like this is very hard on me.

Yeah.

And she was very touched by that, and I think we grew even closer.

Honestly, She's such a warm angel.

Hmm, just like Heather Gay.

I will be on Watch what Happens Live with Heather Gay.

Their day is released or the day before Time, the day.

The day before chen Shaw is getting released, and you know it's going to be a topic, and I feel like people are going to be watching that app because, by the way, Salt Lake is fully on fire, incredible, fully on fire.

Bronwin is a favorite of mine.

Yeah, I have to say, like this stuff with her husband is becoming really compelling to me.

Absolutely, I'm just like, I'm just like, I can't.

I need to find.

Out where this goes with Todd, with the mom unfortunately that mom.

Yeah, I mean, I.

Don't want to I don't want to comment on the situation too much because it's it really especially after Bramacon.

It's like, these are people, you know what I mean.

And by the way, Bronwin one of the coolest people there, like definitely very chill vibe, always looked really great.

Ram was one of the coolest people there.

And also all of the Salt Lake ladies are tens.

I met Marisol.

Ah, I mean, come on, I got to see some of my faves, ran into Gina my Long Island girl, Oh my god, you and Gina Wendy being there was crazy.

And now there's even more.

They're they're for credit.

Cards, aliases, it's really tough looking, good looking, good I see.

I feel for that.

I feel for those children.

Most of all, I feel for both of them.

Two.

It's well, this is our episode with Heather Gay.

We recorded this a little while back, so we are.

You know, Mat and I are not operating from a place of being totally caught up to the below deck crossover what happened with Meredith and Brittany on the plane, obviously, but we are.

We do mostly just like shoot the breeze on can and just getting to know each other in the last few months and how special that's been.

We do love.

Heather's one of us, you know what I mean.

Love Heather.

She's a good time, she's a good person, like she's a girl.

She's just just yeah, we love and we think you're gonna love this.

You just said the words Meredith on the plane, and I got so stressed, reaching fumbling for my beta blockers, like please know anything to calm myself.

That's the kind of television.

We didn't even talk about pluribus next time, let me catch up.

Oh wait, say what you want to say.

It is incredible.

A lot of chatter about how it's like doing the Vince Gilligan thing of having an amazing Pilo or not.

Not the Vince gillion thing.

But it's just like the thing recently where it's like things have an incredible pilot and then they kind of like Peter off and I'm like, that's just I think that's just TV.

I disagree.

I think Plurbis keeps the.

Ball in the air in a very very cool way, like I'm really interested to see where this goes, takes big swings.

Yeah, one thing about it is that is not Vince Gilligan's reputation.

I was gonna say that is not his at all.

Breaking ball did not like pop off with the pile and then simmer Dan.

That I would argue got better as it went.

It got so good I had to tap out because of stress.

And also better call Saul.

I mean I was always told like, oh, ray Seahorn, Ray Seahorn.

For I was like, I just wish that that our call Soul was something that gave me a little bit of a chub, but never sure.

Plori booze, plora booze, ploody booze.

It is very special.

I'm really enjoying it.

It has something to say about, like a lot of things, you can really graft on a lot of things about the current day.

Onto it anyway, enjoy it.

We'll talk about it when when, when you're caught up.

Yeah, we'll see you in a few weeks.

We'll check in again before the EO Y.

For now, enjoy this episode with the one and only Heather Day.

Look mare, oh, I see you my own and look over there is that culture.

Yes, wow, lost culture.

Ding dong.

Lost culture is just calling It's a day that's been in the making.

Hm hmm.

It's crazy to say, like, well, we connected in the South of France dot dot dot meaningfully connected in the South of France at a convention and then cam con at CAMCN.

Cam camp Conry convention in cam That's right, and struck up a true genuine friendship.

And then she shows up to the Culture Awards slays it.

Crushed, crushed.

They were the most the biggest stars, the biggest stars in the room.

Well, Kristen Wigg does her comes in for rehearsal, she does her thing.

She you know, sees all these places, goes to oh yeah, that's person's here, This prince is here, freezes in her tracks.

The Salt Lake City Girls are coming.

I said, everyone except Whitney who's in Australia, touring in Australia, just to let you know how big the lives have become.

They're touring in Australia, touring in Australia, at the awards, here, there, everywhere.

I mean, this is a historic episode.

Correct me if I'm wrong, our first in person housewife in person, Yeah, of a current housewife.

Yeah, I think you're right.

We've obviously had hazwys On before.

Yeah, this is breaking new ground and I couldn't think of anyone better.

No, because I think that we've been on record as saying that Salt Lake City is the girl.

She's the one John oliveryone Uncle Bert.

Oh, and even kind of espoused to the audience the ways in which it is Shakespeare.

Yeah, you start seeing it a crossover.

We actually, we were just in Pete Town and we rewatched season two what we can only call what goes down in the Beauty Lab parking lot.

Yeah, it doesn't stay in the Beauty Lab parking lot.

It's all over television in television history.

But that is minute by minute perfect television.

I would agree, And it continued to be New York Times best selling author of Bad Mormon and good time girl star of Real Housewives of Salt Lake City from the beginning very much, and I think that everyone would agree very much.

The protagonist of the show.

Mogul, Beauty Lapp and Laser m M, I'm dying to go.

Oh, we're going.

I want to get an old therah treatment there.

And actually I want a little bit of a console on the episode.

Oh yeah, I'm not scared of it.

I'm not scared of it either.

Let's do it.

This is, I say fearfully.

This is our truly dear friend.

We love her, the one, the only Heathery.

Cold.

I am so honored to be on most coach.

Never thought this day would come, but I feel like a final It's like important that it's happening now.

I think my phone is ringing.

Well, what could what could I possibly be saying?

Angie cuts and us take up the phone.

You take up the phone, pick it up and put it on speaker.

Put on speaker.

Hey, Ange Oh she hung on damn so wishy washy that one.

Listen, she probably pans.

She's on right now.

She probably realized that, and we want her onto for the phone call.

Angie k is an incredible friend, an incredible housewife, also recommended before the Sizzle reel by me ran on my behalf and I recommended her year after year until she finally was on there.

Which was what season three they brought her.

Reason two, they revisited and she came on as a friend.

Season three she was a friend, and then night full time.

Yeah, yeah, but you knew from the beginning.

Yeah, she represents such a huge part of Utah and of Salt Lake City specifically, yeah, the Greek community.

And she has been exactly who she is since she was fifteen years old, sitting like reverse on her desk in mister Carter's math class, like with a scrunching on top of her head, entertaining all of us not knowing a single answer to a single math problem, and me being so glad I was in a lower math class so I could just have fun and make friends and still pull in a.

Yeah, but this was the same math class.

You're saying, yeah, yeah, this is tenth grade mister Carter's math class.

But then clear this up, because wasn't the narrative on the show that you guys did not get along in high school?

No.

Start on the show was that she hurt my feelings by coming on the show as Lisa's friend and Jen's friend.

And that as real.

And so when she so, the first scene I had is like I don't like her and I'm not going to accept that.

And so then we like that, you know what, we you know, the true nature of our relationship superseded kind of all of that show bs.

You know that happened.

It's a weird thing.

You know, hell, I mean it was a great moment.

Like we were getting ready for the Cultural Awards.

It was the night before, and I was really racked with nerves, and I remember Melissa and I went back to the hotel and I look across the lobby and there's Heather and Angie coming in from like, I don't know where you guys have been.

You guys have been out the night before the Cultural Awards, Ida cackling, laughing, looking like peas in a pot.

And I was like, see, we haven't really seen this version of Angie and Heather on the show.

Yeah, And then to watch it in real life, I'm like, oh, this is like a part of the show I want to see.

Yeah, like the two of.

You, I think you will see more and more of it.

You know because as as like the friendships change and evolve and deep in like we just are more comfortable like not hurting other people's feelings by hanging out all the time, you know what I mean.

It's just it's just the nature of it, Like it's deepened our relationship in a way that is really like important to someone at this phase of life for me, you know what I mean.

Yeah, to have a high school friend.

I've noticed that she's fifteen years old.

Yeah, the picture you paint of her is so visceral, like sitting on the desk with the hyph pony like you doing, in white.

Stripe gap rugby shirt, collar popped.

Rugby strit So she's so of the current time in that in that garb, but so like doesn't doesn't that like I wonder how you do with that, you know, refraction of Oh my god, this is someone I've known since fifteen.

Also, we're on TV together representing something about Salt Lake City, and there's just all this other stuff and and you guys just have to like perform a version of yourselves in a way that like is authentic, but also like you need to like draw some connection to like that younger self of you like that that that younger version of you.

Yeah, the younger version of us.

And I think that's what makes it so fun and and deepens our friendship is because you could put us at said nothing, we're going to be doing the same bitch, you know what I mean.

Like when we're together, we're kind of it's just that energy feeds off each other.

And like I'm always performing.

I've been performing since I was in kindergarten, you know what I mean.

Like everything's more fun if it's a big performative.

I think you're putting the hard tea on kindergarten.

Well, kindergarten because the way it spelled kindergarten.

I'm the best selling author.

What did that feel like when it not only when it came out, but also like when Bad wom Room went on that best seller list.

That's crazy.

Yeah, Bad Mormon.

The book has been for sure, like the greatest jewel of all of this experience, and not only because it felt great to like write my story and process all that.

I mean, it's so cathartic, it's so therapeutic, and it was just it felt like an incredible privilege to revisit that and like kind of honor the girl I was then and like that.

I was in a position now to look at it with perspective because I tell people a lot.

They're like, oh, when is he going to leave the church or when is she going to leave the church, And I'm like, it's not leaving the church.

Is like, it's like leaving who you are.

And the only way I've seen it happen for people like me is if something bigger comes along, right, something bigger comes along that offers you more than what you've always counted on, because that's kind of you know, ambition, the human spirit, like the drive to exceed, and like Housewives came along and offered me more than I ever anticipated I could have, And the book gave me the opportunity to explore that.

And so the book has been my great connector.

I meet people on the streets.

It's what they love.

They resonate with it.

It's we're doing a documentary about it, you know, it's like it means so much to me.

And I was posing for an ad where I had to hold it and so I was just kind of like reading it laughing out loud.

I love every word.

I'm so proud of it.

And like I hope it outlasts me for one hundred years.

Yes, I think your story, I think you talk about leaving the church being this like developmentally important, the most important thing in any Mormons developed, former Mormons development as they leave the church.

Is kind of like you're defining thing as like a boundary breaking person.

Right, It's like you broke like the boundary was the church for a second.

You broke out of that.

Then you're, you know, in order to define that, though, you have to get in the boundary first, right, and so like whether that's like housewives whenever you you know, however long you do that, at some point you will break out of that boundary.

But it requires getting in the boundary first, and it requires sitting down to like write the book, you know what I mean?

Like that is part of that is the action of like breaking out of whatever box people have put you in.

That's exactly how it happened when I was first approached.

I couldn't even read the email saying write a book called bad Mormon.

I mean, I shut the laptop.

It was just so I would never have put my name my face on anything derogatory about the church or about who I still wasn't sure.

I wasn't, you know.

And then just through time, like you start to like recognize that boundary becomes less oppressive and like less defining of your options in life, you know, And like now I couldn't think of a better title, you know, I wanted to be a good Mormon.

It was very hard for me.

It's an incredibly sticky title, you know what I mean, Like bad Mormon is a title you just don't forget and you get you not only are you explicitly saying what it is, but also as you read it, you discover like it's about self judgment, which is like so much and it's really I guess it's kind of similar to coming out of the closet, right It's like for me, you do that way, and then I think there's like a perception of like, oh, this person left the Mormon Church.

They left you know, scientology, they're coming out of the closet, they're leaving a marriage, et cetera.

Good for them.

That is when the work really starts, because that's when you find out who you are.

And I feel like one of the really compelling things about the first really few seasons and ongoing of Salt Lake City.

Housewives is of course it's fun because it's a housewiveschise, franchise in franchise, and this house franchise, youm it's in this bespoke place, Salt Lake City, which we hadn't really explored before.

But what was the most compelling thing was I think, especially you you're you're watching, you find out who you are, you know what I mean, like seeing your limits, even with alcohol, with going out, with doing all these things.

It's all it's really very fascinating, and I wonder what you get watching it back.

Well, in a way, I feel like I got back what I felt reality TV gave to me when I was living in such culture bubble.

You know, My bubble of culture was so intact that like it took a lot to penetrate that, and reality television as a married woman was the first time that I saw examples of women that weren't Mormon dutiful wives.

Like that's how inclusive my world was.

And I think that it's like watching people live their lives out vicariously.

And I've said it a few times, but like there's that scene when camera's in the back of the limo with whatever, you know, I don't remember his name now because he's nameless.

But she says, I want to divorce Simon Simon.

She's like, I want a divorce, and like I heard her say that, it penetrated my heart and I thought, oh my god, that would feel so good to say, Wow, I'm watching a woman say something that I could never say.

I could never even think it.

And like, watching that just became a way to like, you know, suddenly see beyond the world that you were expected to live in forever.

But that was what kind of like chipped at the Veneer for you was was reality television.

Yeah, well, oh so the whole point to get back I forgot I got so distracted, is that, Like that gave a lot to me.

Yeah.

So when I had the chance to be on the show and be a housewife, like I knew that like no matter ugly whatever was coming, like I was just going to put it all out there because I wanted to put out into the media that gave back to me, you know what I mean, contribute to the forum.

That gave me what I needed.

What I needed was vulnerability, authenticity and just women speaking unfiltered and so on the show, I felt an obligation to the audience, to reality TV as a genre, and to you know, my own opportunity.

Like I'm here, I'm not going to like take it from someone else.

That's going to be real, you know what I mean, And I'm just going to do it.

And that's like kind of the sacrifice.

Like but it's so humiliation abounds, you know.

Well, I mean, of course, like like putting yourself out there is is quote unquote like humiliating in some fashion, right, Like even we experience a degree of that.

But it's like to have the books plural, even Good Time Girls a really sticky title you can't forget.

Especially because of it popping up on the show one.

But I think with the books that is such a I mean, it's it's the way I feel about the podcast in a concurrent sense of like a show like S and Now, where it's like I'm in service of something else in an ensemble and it's it's wonderful.

Yeah.

But then having the podcast with my best friend is like a fucking lifeline because I'm like, oh, I get to like make sense of things with someone I love one on one.

We bring in people we love, and that is I'm sure in some sense more isolated what the book is probably.

Yeah, absolutely, and it's in it's in, it's it's in your zone, you know.

But in terms of the genre reality TV, like you know at this point that like the show and what you've contributed to it is the peak of it, Like it is the best reality TV maybe ever.

I really thought a couple of times show house size of Salt Lake City in generally the.

Whole house types of Celic City.

No, I think that it's like it's like the Housewives of Salt Lake City, I think stands out And I don't know if you can really feel that, because it probably you understand because like there is like a buzz around it and you can just see.

But sometimes, like when you're when it's you, you can't really tell what it is that's hitting because there's this weird like what's like dysphoria almost about like what is like actually in the world and what is my algorithm telling me?

But like we're out here on the outside of it, being like Salt Lake City feels different because it tells a new story.

You know, a lot of the other Housewives franchise.

I think that what the issue is with some of them.

Is it feels like we're not telling new stories.

Yeah, sometimes it feels a little bit repetitive.

With Salt Lake City, it's like a couple of things.

These are women that pass the ball where it's a true ensemble, and it feels like we're hearing a new stories.

And I think that that's like, like I don't recognize any of the stories being told on this franchise.

And Gosha Baby, they were even playing a game with Angie k and Demi Levado.

I want to watch it happens, live it where it was you know, Angie or Demi picking like from each of the cast, like most likely to do this, this, that, and they just had all of your headshots and just even above the nose, above the nose.

I was like, these are indelible people.

They're iconic, recognizable women, and we salute the contribution.

It's cast in a way that has to be sometimes frustrating when you want to rip the throats out of your cast members because you know that it's like a cast that kind of can't change, Like sorry, problem, we've.

Tried, you know, we can't We've you know, we all think that we can evolve and change realthing for improving and we just are exactly who we are, and there's so much comfort in that to me.

You know, like I love people that are awful and people that are great.

I love all people, you know, but I just like when they show up and I can know what to expect.

Consistency is key, and I think Salt Lake City brings these consistent personalities because we're authentic to who we are.

Yeah.

I think my favorite moment from the premiere, and we were commenting on this, was when Whitney Rose admits that her business failed.

And it's that is because as a housewife, there's all this like modern expectation and you know, Salt Lake City Housewives.

I remember they did that book, like not all Diamonds and Rose and Salt Lake Housewives isn't even in that because of how new it is in the grand scheme of things, Like it's this like post Housewives Housewives show where all of you come in and like are expected to not only hit the ground running as like entertaining pop culture figures, but also business people.

You know, if you do it correctly putting in air quotes, you have something outside the show for you.

And I thought that her sharing that it did not go well, especially when such a huge part of her narrative when she was starting it was how badly it needed to succeed because Justin had lost his job at the time.

Like, I think that that was a really important moment, because I do think you guys are at a point where it could go in the direction that is like, we know what we've got here and so let's continue to produce it, or we know what we've got here and what makes us special is the authenticity.

And that felt like an authentic, real moment of for being like, Hi, I failed, let's talk about it.

Yeah, and Brittany, don't bring it up five minutes into the RV trip, you know.

I mean Brittany's being herself too.

Everyone's being as.

Exactly, which is why it works.

And I think that there we really something that's unique about Salt Lake City is that we really are all each other has like and I don't know, I can only speak for my self, but being on the show doesn't have a lot of currency in our community, Like not at the grocery store, not at the mall, not amongst our closest friends and family.

They really don't talk about it.

They don't acknowledge it, certainly with me.

They don't talk about the book, you know, they don't talk about this like they just talk to you about your children and like innocuous things like probably with Whitney at soccer and with Lysia it's Henry, you know what I mean.

But they don't give us any currency for the fact that we are on this show that is such a hit and that has changed our lives so fundamentally, And I think part of that keeps us like you know, tight and humble, and I mean humble, but tight, and it makes the show that much more important and our stories that much more kojent because it's you know, it's all contained.

Yeah, you have this memory of Angie high pony and green rugby shirt.

What is your memory of us going to be going forward?

As you go?

Oh, I've known Mountain Bone for fifteen years.

Yeah, what's the image?

Listen, guys, Can's lions.

Which we all can't remember a specific one because we were so turned.

Well, I mean, listen, I can remember.

Can I take what I know mine and I'll say it it's me.

I remember I was over with a couple of the Summerhouse people.

I turn around.

I see it's you sitting on a bench crying, and Bowen is on his knees in front of you, glasping your hands like this, and you guys are having one of the most emotional moments in human kind history.

And I was kneeling and.

You were talking about how it had been your first time in can since your Mormon mission, and you were talking about that a lot during depressed that we were all doing together.

That's wild.

That's all places in the world.

That's where they sent you as someone that's then supposed to be like well behaved.

Yeah, one of the horns most gorgeous places in the world.

And then that you randomly for this thing later, years and years later, when your life is totally different, you're also sent there on a different mission, which is to tell your new life story.

Yeah.

Crazy.

And that's like I thought when I was there as a Mormon missionary.

I thought I was of the world, you know, this worldly, bilingual, you know, change maker.

And I thought I could never be this happy because I was so indebted in the service of others.

My testimony of the Church was so strong.

I was doing the Lord's work.

I was ruining people's lives and it was for the right, you know what I mean.

You were incredible Mormons.

I was.

I was so I thought, I am this is who I was born to be, and I could never be happier.

And at the same time I was miserable and it was so hard, and it was soul you know, gutting, and I to come back there now and feel like the same person, the same enthusiasm, the same ambition, the same zest for life and for the people, but to be there on terms that were authentic to me, it just felt like how how how did I get this opportunity?

And that's what I was weeping to bowen about.

Yeah, yeah, that is like I'm here, I'm here, You're here, and who gets to do that?

I mean, I think you were also just exhuming all of these things that maybe you had forgotten about.

I remember you very distinctly telling me while I was kneeling to you, you were like, I think that was when you were like, we would have to get like the Church told us for these missions, that you would go into people's houses and within one minute beyond your knees with them and pray like it had to be that.

It's like the salespersonraining that we trained.

We trained, we had conferences where we trained.

We'd walk up and say, if they opened the door to us and said, you know, these two v mean missionaries, you know in T shirts and full dresses, we have a message of hope and love for your family, can we come in?

If they said come in, we grabbed their forearm and said, can we offer a prayer and.

Knelt down within one minute or five?

Was it wonderful?

One minute?

Within one minute?

Get on the ground, they said, because.

And they said, like most people when you kneel, they're like gonna kneel.

That's just human nature, and most kind people in the world are never going to turn down a prayer.

Sure, officers, offer us a prayer, throw us a prayer, bone, be on your way.

But then you kneel down with them and you pray with them that they will be open to receive the message that you're about to give them.

And it felt highly manipulative, but.

It's also at the same time, I mean, yes, just the intention is maybe manipulative, but then if you're describing like just offering a prayer to someone, there is like it's it's so dissonant.

There is like there is a kindness to this.

Of course, there's a kindness in love, but like, why make them kneel?

Why why do it in a way that we know as a tactic to get us to stay there longer and to in effect shame them for churning us out.

Because I'm sure that what they're arming you with is, of course these skills, but what's behind it is the fact that you genuinely believe that what you're going to do is better their life, change their life.

So that's an induct their family.

Yeah, that's that's you being indoctrinated in something that's not you manipulating, it's simply acting.

Yeah, and that's and that's where that's why I find the church so fascinating, and the culture that comes out of the church that fascinating.

And the fact that I had three daughters that I was training to be that exact version of me, and now one's living on the Upper West Side of New York City.

Ones at the University of Miami in a sorority I don't even want to party.

Yeah, yeah, no, you don't go to You're not a sorority girl in University of Miami.

And not raging exactly.

And then I have my freshman daughter at U Tampa and like none of my friends kids have even left the state of Utah, and a lot of them are married.

So I have I'm an anomaly in my neighborhood and in my community.

And Angie is one of my true friends from call from high school.

That is, I mean, think of that.

You know, like everyone else we know is married with and some of them are grandparents already.

So that's what you're saying, Like, that's what tightens you, That's what humbles and titans.

There's not a lot of people like us in our community I at all.

Not a lot of women business owners, not a lot of women entrepreneurs.

The highest brand you can get at our Norse from is rag and Bone.

Yeah.

I love Rag and Bone and I.

Love Citizens of Humanity, But sometimes the audience wants us to show up in more, and we love an audience.

I do want to ask about that too, because again, like Salt Lake City being relatively new, even though it's in its sixties, and it still feels like it was born after the creation of what a quote unquote real housewife looks like is et cetera.

What that image was born and into you know, television's television watching communities heads.

So when you show up and the nicest store in your north Strom rack is the Rag and Bone, which is really for men, right, don't they really?

They just kind of make more it's more.

Yeah, yeah, so they weren't even helping so gender, Matt, what I'm saying is just like the the Opportunity Shore, but also expectation to be as glam as Erica Jane, Like what goes on there when like you collide with the other housewives that has to be so intimidating.

Of course I'm talking about like Girls Trip, but also Bravo con and like watch it Happens live and just like you know, showing up as a housewive, how did that feel?

How are we interacting with that?

Well?

For me, it was like, I mean I did everything in a Stretchyesara, every confessionals either stretchy Zara or Macy's or Dillard's.

You know, work prom fifty percent off for my first season and that's like this set the stage of life I was in.

Also the clothes that fit me, So I mean I felt like I was doing the best I could and I admired I had such a fandom and respect and like knowing how hard it is to like just do all of it.

You know, these there's not a lot of women over forty thriving and doing these types of things.

So like these are the first mentors in my life, Like the first women that I saw get divorced and thrived that I saw not have six children and still have a fulfilling life and not talk about casual sex.

I mean, I know this sounds naive, but like this is the world I lived in, so everything to me was like I mean, I didn't feel threatened.

I felt like, you know, take me with you, ye show me the way, inspired and just yeah inspired for.

Sure, it showed you another run and honored.

But I'm also embarrassed but honored.

You know, you don't want to bring them down.

I don't know.

I think, like because you talked about this and while we were in can like on a panel, and I think you were just saying, like I saw housewives and it broke the mold on what women my age could do, what the possibilities were, And you're so I think that is going to be true for a while for.

Every woman in America.

You know, it's like every woman who maybe is a single mom or you know, an entrepreneur or like just is juggling all these quote unquote unconventional things, especially in a very conventional, conventioned place like Utah or you know, in the Mormon Church.

Like you're talking about something very powerful about television and media.

And I think you've like taken that mantle so well, and I think that is I think that is why people really kind of like are drawn to you as a housewife and they say that you are the protagonist of Salt Lake because because you understand, as it were, the assignment.

My memory of you is hold on is this phone background that I still have Heather get smoking a cigarette?

That is you in a red girl, A good time girl.

I said, I'm going to smoke and I'm going to drink when I'm in can this time.

We almost got you to hook up with that guy, remember, but then we found out he was gay.

Well they always are with this the redheaded.

I wept because I'd never been thrust on a man's shoulders like that you were.

I did the whole time.

I was pure joy.

You do we not have the most we had?

We got back and were exhausted for a week.

I took us a month.

He went straight to Beyonce in Paris.

Stop trying the cultural awards.

You have to imagine we were in the middle writing the Culture Awards.

Can we talk about the cultural awards?

Culture?

What's our time frame?

The culture Awards?

You guys changed, it changed Awards shows forever.

Stop that.

It's like it's the chapel roone of award shows.

Show the chapel, having you guys there amidst all of what was happening.

What I loved was all the.

Throwaway shots to me having the time of mine.

Absolutely love to use that, you know when I well, you know what I knew.

We kind of did something there at the end of it, Like we're walking back in.

We had taken a moment to ourselves after the show, and we're walking back in and we see the one and only Mary and she is in this red sort of becloaked scouted with her gloves and she turns to us and she said, I enjoyed myself, And she said, my husband said, you better know who they are.

She goes, and I do know who you are, Matt and Bowen.

She goes, we need to have a picture.

I was like, yes, we do.

The fact that Mary asked her that that.

Was bestone upon you.

I've known her for years, never have I received such honor.

She it was like she was throwing us some bread as docs.

I was like, wow, it was.

Like Queen Elizabeth looked over and that.

Was not a common thing for her to do, right.

No, Yeah, that's incredible the fact that.

But then it's so funny because in the edit, I was doing the edit of the show, and of course we're looking for audience cutaways, et cetera, And almost every time the audience was cutting over to you guys.

What I loved was how seriously mariyam Cosby was looking at everything.

She was just like I don't know.

It did take her like a second, I think, to register what was happening.

And then at some point we did win her over.

But I was just like, you win everything went.

Over and like it was an incredible, incredible experience.

Oh, thank you for doing it, for doing.

It, like it should happen every year and I want third row seats.

To try.

Oh mean, my god, what is your favorite show on Bravo?

Like?

What is the what?

I have two questions, One before we ask you the real question, who is the housewife that made you say Housewives was for you as as a real Housewives fan?

And is there a show on Bravo besides Housewives whatever that's your fave.

Tamra perhaps as you mentioned earlier.

I mean, that's interesting, but like no, because Tamra terrifies me that that moment was so raw and I just really appreciated her for it.

But like, honestly, I know that said Housewives could be for me.

It never occurred to me, even until the final call sizzle reel, It's still never occurred to me.

But honestly, I would say Vicky gun Wilson, Oh wow, Vicky Gunbilson, because I feel like I feel emotional.

Isn't that she just was herself, you know, and was just obnoxious and in the best way of course, and like got a lot of crap, you know, had to overcome a lot, but just like showed up, had a great business, was proud of who she was, was proud of what she wanted, and her relationships went after it got it.

You know.

The hole Dawn thing was so painful, but I related to it.

I could see and I just think I just think Vicky's story is pretty remarkable and she deserved you know that.

When she was in that mustard colored velvet dress.

I don't remember what she was mad about, but I'm on her side.

Yeah, you know the thing about it, she.

Was mad about she she did serve that show.

Well, you know what I mean, I think she should still be on it, but that's just my opinion.

But the thing about Vicky is she was It's like we say often, she was always herself.

She was always herself, and it's great that she was like the og of the oc really the first real housewife because she it's it's kind of like when Kelly Clarkson won American Idol, they hit the jackpot, like Vicky Gunilson being the first real housewife really the family.

They hit a jackpot because there was yeah, there was a model for what this show was and the kind of person that it revolves around.

And she is Orange County, you know what I mean.

Like and you saw how housewives kind of evolved or you know, and it's it's it's changed my physical appearance and like the way I show up to stuff and that you just you see how the process like changes you.

But like you know, I just it's never I've never thought of that before, but that's just what came to me in this.

But I bet you recognize yourself more when you look in the mirror now.

Oh for sure.

Absolutely absolutely, Like I feel like I like am in my zone and I am so proud of the girl that like had to overcome so much more to get me here.

Like you know, I look back and I think the courage and like the guts.

Like also, everyone hated me and was so mean to me season one and two.

You know, they thought, who is this dummy, Let's let's oust her.

You know, she doesn't the round just like the cast cast you felt you felt like they were not rooting for you.

Oh for sure.

Yeah, was that jealousy because you I thought it was like.

I'm not going to be seen with her, Like I thought, like this is beneath my level of socialization of panache and image, and so yeah, it was really really hard for me season one and two.

It's really interesting because I remember like after season one was season one was a success, especially, like and it really snapped in in the last few episodes and it was kind of a little bit you guys realizing there was something off with Jen and then obviously season two it becomes a pop culture phenomenon.

But I remember watching that and it was very clear in those reunions that people had seen themselves depicted in a way they didn't expect.

Like I think that probably a lot of people did expect to look like the protagonist of the show, which was clearly.

I mean, and everyone's incredible and in their function on the show, but I do think you are.

Your story speaks exactly to why a franchise exists in Salt Lakesity.

Yeah, and I think that that's kind of just an undeniable, just narrative choice.

Yeah, so that had to be humbling for people, surprising and bad way to a lot of people.

Yeah, yeah, but you were someone with who came into the show with self knowledge, which which might not have been said for your castmates, and that was probably something that set you apart, but also like was very i don't know, like a little bit weird for them.

I think you probably just like were ahead on that potentially hopefully that's how that's how you look at it in hindsight.

Well, in hindsight, I just think like I never thought I would be there, and they never thought I would be there, and then when I was there, everyone was just like what the fuck?

You know what I mean, Like in terms of casting at all, Yeah, wow, yeah, you know, I don't want to make this.

I don't want to relate this back to myself, but like I relate on this level of Like I never expected to be on a show like SNL.

I would always watch I was obsessed with the show, watched every week.

But I was like, you know, what would be a dream to be a writer?

And it was and it was great, and then it took like an audience or maybe like some coworkers, sometime you'd be like, oh yeah, Bowen's here, you know.

But like there's something about sticking with it and staying and whether or not you went over the respective people you at least like, you know, you kind of appreciate the things that are intact about yourself.

Like I like, I would not say you've changed very much since you've started on the show.

You've been yourself.

You know.

I just think I'm seeing more now, which is a good feeling, a good feeling, but also sad.

You know, yeah, that there's so many things that keep people from seeing who you really are.

Wow, and that's that's really really interesting.

And how how in a way it's like when there's a camera on you and almost like it emboldens you to like say this thing, like you do get the sense like across the franchise is like a lot of people started in marriages on the show that like clearly weren't working, And a lot of people say, like, oh, they went on the show to get a divorce.

Maybe not consciously but unconsciously, but it's.

An opportunity, it's a lifeline, you know.

Like I was at the darkest, saddest point in my life when the show came around.

You know, I was in a business that was failing.

I was trying to build it back up, and was it failing?

Well when I bought it, it was, yeah, like it was.

It was.

I started out every day like a thousand dollars in the red he had taken out like a hard money loan, was some offshore person I couldn't even contact, you know.

I was just so I had to like build this business.

And in building it, I met a lot of people.

And that's what connected me to like casting, because I knew a lot of these you know, hot girls get an injection.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, true.

But the business was a success and that's where I really started to like pull myself out.

But like to be on television, that was never you know.

In the plan, Yeah it was, yeah, I mean.

In the plan it was.

It was just like it wasn't even watching Degrassi Junior Highs, like you know, ten year old thinking.

You know, if you don't get it as a Nickelodeon kid, you're never going to get it.

Of course, you know what I mean.

Of course.

So do you still watch everything on Bravo?

Yeah?

I watch everything and I love all of it, and I really love I love Southern charm, I love below Deck, I love Captain Jason, and I love Captain Carrey.

And I did Blowdeck Adventure with Captain Carrey.

I was going to ask you about what it's like to be on Below Deck Adventure.

It was so fun, it was incredible, It was totally incredible.

We went to Norway, you know, sod the Fjords, like things you would never see from land or even on a screen saver on your laptop.

Wow, this is real and not just I know sometimes I'm.

Just like this looks just like my screensaver.

It's amazing.

I didn't see a lot either growing up, like I like, we had like a working class family on Long Island.

So now that I get to my adult life and get some gold places like Can, it's like, yeah, so amazing, And you do take it for granted because there's so many people that don't have even if they dreamed it, don't have agency access ability to go to all those places.

Yeah.

I mean my first international trip was as a traveling companion for a little person that needed help like with their luggage and stuff, because I wanted to see the world.

Where'd you go?

Can not can?

Sorry?

Cantcuon?

Can't COONa?

Interesting?

Cancun?

Yeah?

I probably similar?

And can Can?

I wept on the white sand beaches of can Kue.

Do you never want to come back?

I want to.

I'm I going to come back.

Yeah.

You know, you just have this angst and this like desire for a bigger life, but your circumstances there's just no path to.

See it well.

And then like your parameters change as soon as you have a kid or three kids.

Yeah, like big mistake, huge, don't do that.

I'm like, you know, I mean I just graduated.

I'm an empty nester, I can say it.

Yeah from the way.

Gosh, how does that feel incredible?

It's my rumer.

I love it?

Yea?

Was that was that true in Can?

Or it was still?

No, it was animal still and kicked it off.

Kicked it off?

An went went to Tampa or what?

No, Annabel went to Tampa two weeks after I got home from cam.

Wow, that like can kicked it off for sure?

Wow.

And now it's like I'm being like totally intentional about it.

We're really working hard.

I know you've both recommended me to Rya.

I'm still on the wait list.

Wait what I recommended you?

Sam Lansky's put in a word to like the CEO.

I have every person Andy, everyone's working on it.

But there's something about my age group.

Oh give me my emotional stability.

I don't know, but ry emotional.

Stability as a prerequisite for Rya.

I'll tell you that much, at least among them the gay men.

I'm not online.

I'm just like that would be my first Foray.

But I am being totally like, I want a date now I don't.

I didn't want to do it and I was a mom.

It's just it's a weird.

What's a good first date for anyone out there that's listening as.

In a group, like at a dive bar, like yeah, and like having a vibe and then for sure going home together.

Yeah, yeah, you want to.

You want to have your your one night spend there.

I do know you're.

Vibe asking me this.

It's for the people who lost coach, which they are they?

Are they out there?

Are they?

No?

Honestly, a lot of Katie's out there have said, you know, my boyfriend will sometimes just have you guys on because they'll have indoctrinated them in the ways of lost culch.

It's how to look smart.

Okay, let's ask you the question, Heather Gay, what was the culture that made you say culture was for you?

So?

I have like a ten thousand of them, obviously, because every time I listen I think of one.

But when I was thinking about this one, I was trying to remember like the first moment that really kind of penetrated the bubble of the culture that I was raised in because it was very, very inclusive.

I don't know how to explain I was a bubble boy, were it?

I only knew people of my kind and that believed and thought.

I thought the world was flat.

No one told me different.

Everyone reinforced it.

And I had one friend and we're still friends.

Jessica Miller shout out.

She's a good time girl.

She her older brothers picked us up and brought us home from school one day, which I don't know how or why my mom allowed it, but it did.

It happened, and they played violent fems Blister and the Sun in the car and I was probably in like third grade.

Yeah, And what was the feeling?

What?

Every part of me lit up?

You know what I mean?

I understood none of it, and I understood all of it, and like it it changed, like my chemistry, and I thought, what is this song?

What?

I know?

Like knowing I wasn't supposed to be hearing it, and like I can never un hear it.

And I came alive.

You had a mini awakening, a mini awakening.

And then we went to her house and her brother sir himself a cup of peppermint sknops with ice.

He was about sixteen in the short classxteen years.

You can have a sip, You can have a sip of you.

I of course refused it because I'd already listened to violent fens like the first time that I had independent income and like the ability to go through the cassette tape you know at whatever the store was called at the wall back then, it was like I like sought it out.

I thought it was like illegal bootleg stuff like that wasn't allowed.

So what was the typical music that you were listening to with the Osmond's, Like I.

Mean Osmond's of course, but like Simon and Garfunkel, you know, my parents had great taste in like family music, classic things.

Yeah, I loved, But then I got turned onto Indigo Girls and Dar Williams and Sean Colvin and like I just kind of had like.

A deep orient on Colvin.

Sean Colvin?

Wow, so is that?

How are you listening to that?

In secret?

Once I started working on I was fifteen at Teddy Bears Frozen Yogurt and I always had discretionary come to buy music.

He was just talking about how he's in Utah or Colorado.

What were your Colorado years?

My Colorado years?

I left in eighty nine.

Oh wow, So I was it was Teddy Bears and it was Golden Swirl frozen yogurt.

So you were a froo.

I used my experience at Teddy Bears to leverage a lead employee position at Golden Swirl, which I yeah, entrepreneurial about it always always yeah, yeah, So.

I connect with this.

I remember my song was the Roof by Mariah Carey and it was just about like the rain hitting her skin on the roof while she made out with who we found out later was Derek Jeter, and that that was her sexual awakening.

And I believe I was eight or nine listening to it, and there was something about it that I didn't need to really understand it to understand it, you know.

And music is special like that, Yeah, you.

Think it is, and like and when it comes from a source and you think it's like another world, like there is another world and realm that exists that I have not yet been introduced to.

And I want to And how are people even thinking to express themselves like this exactly?

Because it never would have occurred to me?

Right, But that song in particular, did the brother tell you who?

Like who the violent thims were?

What this like?

No?

I just like it happened it.

That song is clear and and occluded, you know what I mean, It's I just understood it.

I don't know I felt it like awakened me.

Okay, I wanted to Yeah, you wanted to stay in the sheet.

You know, things about stains in the sheets.

I don't even know why.

You know they were eating dinner and bed all over them.

That's what it was.

It could be a million things.

Let's not ask questions.

Just listen and feel the music.

But it's you know what it is, It like that song and very in particular.

We say this word a lot serrated unforgettable.

Basically it's like there, it's it's it's rough.

I understand srated exactly.

You know what I mean, lots of right serrated.

You you know you've had to cut through your life absolutely, Yeah, I love that answer because it's private, you know what I mean.

It's like it's like a very private, explicit, illicit thing and just had to rub against everything you had been told about like the way you should feel and just that as the culture that made you.

How their guys say culture was for her is like you can you can feel the memorability of that and like it's.

It's tangible like this, I'm not going to be able to be who I'm expected to be.

This is going to be harder than you know it's quite queer.

Oh, I feel I have like I feel like I feel like I write from a queer perspective.

I really do like I feel like my books have quite a queer perspective.

If I'm allowed to say this appropriate.

You are it's about it might be queer.

I'm only fifty.

You're breaking out of a boundary, breaking out of something that you know someone else has sort of like boxed you into, and now you're in control of.

Well, I'm going to get into the box because that's part of my process, that is part of my identity.

Is an artist, a writer, you know, all of these things, a public figure, all these things should be you know, I think are already driven by that idea.

I'm being a little like.

Well, I'm totally with you.

And in terms of culture, I mean, think of your podcast and speaking on culture, Like, isn't there something like fascinating about the fact that, like I came out and like my only mentors of culture are housewives, Like these are the women that like I am figuring out how to be, how to form my life after.

I mean, think about when you came out, like you have to like think of who who what kind of person am am I going to be, And I have no examples of that.

I know, I knew no divorced women thriving with their own business is none.

And so now it's like, and I see women now that have overcome and have resilience.

Erica Jane is a huge inspiration to me.

The way that she is just like it reinvented and she's you know, I just admire that, like the tenacity, the resilience, the grit, Like it is not hard, It is not easy out there and it is not easy to come back from like people being really horribly cruel.

You know, I feel it's still shining.

Yeah, I feel like also when you went on Ultimate Girl's Trip one of and that was a hard season to watch.

It's so hard because you realize quickly that you're a guppye in the fish bowl.

And I didn't come in thinking like I really did come in like a family excited to make fun TV with these incredible dynameters.

That's how I feel about it.

Like for me, the creative process of it is like I am a theater kid.

I grew up doing road shows and family performances and talent shows, and like I was a pianist, Like this is like what I love to do.

So like it seemed fun, like we're gonna have theme nights and dinners and we're gonna all give each other shade and laugh and like you don't understand or expect kind of the menacine or the meanness of it.

And I I really learned.

I mean that's when I became really close with Alexian Marisol.

So there, like I was with them on Sunday at the Miami game, like we are close.

I love Alexian Marisol.

They are the real deal.

And they they defended me right out the gate on that trip, and they also gave Whitney hell for not you know, supporting me, like they were true, true friends.

And so I think those types of dynamics give everyone an opportunity to kind of show their true colors.

Yeah, I mean, there's the mistake that I'm going to say as a non housewife, but I'm gonna I'm gonna kind of.

You could be one.

Soa there's a miss So there's a mistake housewives make what I think Giselle's guilty of constantly, which is like it's it's the way that like some people think, like meanness is funny by default, especially like when like when guys like flirt with you, like they're like they kind of like neg you a bit, like they're mean to you, and you're like, wait, no, that's not that's not not as charming or that's not winning anyone over the way you think it is.

And I feel like Gizelle and a certain subsect of housewives do that where they're like, let me be let me just be nasty and cruel and then like let me drum up this like inane drama with like this class zul Bottle.

It's like who that was so lame?

It just also wasn't fun to watch.

Do you think she would have been kinder to you if the cameras weren't rolling?

And has she been kinder to use.

Something totally kind of me off camera?

There's some moms with three daughters, you know, like she's she's like, we had fun, didn't we?

Then like did we?

We did not have fun?

Ma'am.

I mean, I had like a really nasty comment about our friend Joel Penis size and then.

It was racist.

It was racist, but it was it was just.

Like not cool, and then we were checking in with him and he was like, no, I thought we were totally great.

Just like kind of an example of someone who's one way and then another, which I sometimes wonder.

I'm like, do people think we can't tell, oh, we can't tell?

You know?

Well?

But then again there she is a success on the show year after year, clearly they keep her, but she's I don't know's she's a success in her little fiefdom.

She's a success and a very limited capacity, like no one outside of like this fandom specific to Potomac gives a ship.

She makes things happen, which is what I think.

So I also think honestly, she's incredibly beautiful.

She's very beautiful, and definitely.

She's intoxicating on screen to me, like she can be saying mean things.

I'm just like, I mean, I I want and the green eyed vanted that.

I just fall for the green eyed vand it quite a bit, which sometimes messes with me too, because I'm like, I should be prettier.

I always know Diamond doesn't pretty people everywhere, doesn't doesn't really work on.

It actual.

Ewhere.

It's I always want.

I always try, like even with the ones that I'm on record year after year, like it's just because people act like themselves, you know what I mean?

Like And I guess you kind of learned that after a certain point, and even when you go back to shoot Salt Lake season after season at a certain point, this is now the sixth season that's airing, I bet you've arrived the fact that, like you know what, this person is just always going to be themselves.

When do you stop trying?

Well, I'm a I'm never going to stop trying to stop you just a court just to just like.

You never you never even stop.

Trying with Jen No and Jen is Jen was you know, a course and a friend.

And I love people, I sometimes say brain on fire, like I love friends where they keep me on my toes and like everything they say is interesting or pelemic or you know, just challenging.

And I don't know if that's just trauma or what.

I don't know what that's about.

But like, there is a part of me that thinks I can be good enough to this person that they will change and like me eventually or treat me well eventually.

I believe I can't.

You could a therapist could tell me that's never gonna happen, and be like I can like I can love them through what I can't and I know I can't.

But your your view of friendship is that it allows for the challenging stuff, the polemics stuff, the stuff where you're like, this is not like there's no such thing as like this is not how a friend should talk to me necessarily, Like is that what you mean?

Like, well, it's just like I know they're horrible, but they're hurting, Like, I'll get the cage, I'll get the cage animal, I'll show them that they can trust me as long as they're I'll get them to treat me well, as long as they don't hurt you.

I think that's what frustrated that.

It's that is the thing I think as a fan watching the show with you, Heather Gay is we just want you to know you you deserve better of friendships too, like you fought so hard in all these acpects of your of your life, and that I do think there is something with female friendship where you want to believe some of these women are going to treat you better.

And I remember with Jen because obviously you know we're fans for the record, well we wish that you would so with Jen, though I mean, when it felt like you kept making excuses.

For her and you know, kept up a certain ruse with Jen.

Now she's gonna be really pretty soon.

How are you feeling about that?

Just not really feeling anything, you know.

Will you make a call?

Oh no, I don't think.

I think that I have closed the door on that for good reasons, you know, and like but never, I mean, I don't know what the future holds.

But like, I also feel like kind of my whole arc on Housewives, like, you know, maybe Jen is coming back, you know, and that's my perfect exit.

How you know, how possible do you think that is that she comes back?

Well that I never think of Well, first of all, they're they're both different questions.

But how possible do you think it is that she comes back and returns to the show.

I mean, I think as viewers of reality television, we know that it's an absolute possibility.

I mean, I think is I think is human beings on the planet Earth know what television is about.

Ridiculous to say that it's not a possibility, of course.

And then in turn the idea of you than leaving the show.

It wouldn't be gen related, but it would just it would just be the timing of everything.

Sure, sure, I mean, so then you're saying that you've closed that chapter on Jen that like you are you are, you're someone who is generous with friendship.

You allow for a lot, but then when it's done, it's done.

Yeah, it's done.

It's done for now for me, okay, But of course I have no idea where it's at for Jen and what's on her side.

And I'm so you know what I.

Mean, because I'm trying this back to like you having to like permanently in some way, permanently say goodbye to luck to the people in your past from leaving the church, like you are, you have, you have a model for this, and that's that's that's a good that that's a good way to move through the world in some cases, like you say goodbye to people in your life with some permanence.

Yeah, and things tend to get better.

And so I'm I'm that scared me for a long time, but it doesn't scare me as much anymore.

That's a huge moment in life is actually realizing, you know what, I'm going to be okay without this person, and I could be okay without these this person, like because sometimes it's because when you are indoctrinated in what you what you are understanding to be like empathy and goodness, it's like once you let that go, you can like people are harder.

People are the harder.

Yeah, Like that's the thing, It's true.

Yeah, And so I think that's why it's like it's harder to understand, but you do.

You can understand it.

As a viewers, it's like you are someone who cares a lot and we can even see that and feel that from you, even knowing you as well as we do, which we went on one sick vacation and we've hung out an award show where we get to say it's real, guys, it's really just because you want to know what like, we do consider you a friend because we can tell how much you genuinely care and that comes to the screen.

It really does.

I love the show, I love the women I have.

It has changed my life forever, and it's like an incredible privilege to do what we do and to like have access and to like be and can parting with you guys like.

You can take.

You know what I mean.

And it was really it's just like there's I just feel like, I don't know how my life could get better.

Yeah, that's really, that's wonderful.

One last question before you move on to I don't think so, honey.

Were you guys having fun together at the Culture Awards, Like were the Salt LA Housewives?

Were you guys able to put things to the side.

At least that, Yeah, we're the queens of that.

We had the best time.

Plus when we're on top and we're there and everyone like, yeah, it felt like we were the biggest stars.

And were so wonderful to us.

I mean, you think we're going to bicker about no, Yeah, like we I mean there is genuine love there on my side for all of them.

You know, they have changed who I am.

They have shaped who I am there, they are why I'm here and who I've become, which is crazy, you know, because so much of my life was shaped by such different forces.

And so, yeah, we had the best time.

Like I laughed, I cried, I wept.

I'm not even gonna say it was better than cats because it and it was.

It was just like everyone had such a good time.

And did you guys hear how Angie harassed gold Blew?

No, what happened?

Well, I will tell you that.

Like, she had good intentions, but her presentation was awful.

She went up to him and said, my daughter loves dinosaurs.

Will you make her a video?

I mean, if only he knew, I was probably, but then she bad pedaled and made it all make sense.

But I was like, that's not your line.

You have to I think did he made a beautiful video?

Am?

Oh my gosh.

And his wife they were great.

But I think Jeff and Angie are on the same brave wing wavelength of reality.

It's curious people who just you know, are you know just She's like, oh.

She likes oh, absolutely, it's a specific dinosaur.

You know.

It was just like they were off to the race, two characters talking you and I'm telling you, like, it made my heart leave out of my chest to see you guys like having fun together.

I hope we see more of that on the show this season.

So before we go, honey, what's what's the come on the season?

To come on the season.

There's a lot of really really fun fun laughter.

We have a lot of fun.

We wear a lot of costumes.

We are into our themes.

You know, you do see us go on a yacht with Captain Jason.

It is a jam.

It really is hot, so hot, so.

Hot, and it's just a battle of me be Britney obviously miserably.

We have to say Brittany has definitely stepped into her iconography.

Listen, Brittany should know that she may have a short game on the opp but I've got a long game and is in a few months.

She should beware.

You know, I have history with Captain Jason.

I plan to, like, you know, lean in on that.

I'll know where the party.

Is absolutely and I just think there you'll see some growing pains in some of our friendships.

And I think that it's good.

You know, I go to Greece.

We go to.

Greece ofa and we that's the best moment.

I mean, Greece was spectacular.

And there's a moment where were on a hill with one of Angie's family members and I felt like I was on vacation, like I forgot.

That I was, you know, working as it were, we never say work.

We forgot that we were on a girls trip friends in Greece.

Yeah, right, exactly, all.

Right, well we forgot the scene saying I know I do admire how people on all the shows are like not you never said the show, it's the group.

Well, when we were not never the reunion well in New York.

In New York, New York.

But you know what a lot of the dramas cand of be is.

When we were at the last Culture.

Awards, stop, are you kidding me?

An audible gas.

An audible gas from our executive producer.

There's drama post Culture Awards.

Well, depending on how well this get said, it is sure I will say if we s so a lot of things went down inter group.

Are they going to cut to the Culture Awards and a flashback?

I hope they can do my very best to make sure they do.

Oh, oh my god.

I don't know if you know who I am, but receipts prooved, Oh we know mine screenshots and I believe a lot of it's on footage at the lure.

All I want is for at re union someone to go to someone else.

You owe me an apology for what you said at the Cultural Awards, for what you did at the Culture Awards.

We were at the Culture Awards and you were disrespectful.

Bloom listen, Jeff Goldbloom's just the tease.

We have three or four storyline, things that happened there that will come up.

So you were disrespectful to what ben Platt was singing.

You got into it with her introduce Lisa to a couple of people she didn't recognize.

Listen, here's what we'll say.

Here's what we'll say if there are cutaways to the culture.

If the Culture Awards is mentioned in any you know, explicit way, you will be getting a recurrent yearly invitation.

Is that all it takes inventive.

Anymore?

I'm just kidding, is for literally the Cultural Awards to come up, and then me and Bowen come out and gowns as friends of and sit at the end of the couch, just both I think, And then I go.

You owe me an apology, and I say, you're a friend of.

From across from no Man's land all the way when you're sitting on the end screaming on each other.

I wasn't there.

She was so missed so much, I know, and like we were all text well not all.

I was texting her the day before and saying, listen, just you know, go off your phone for like forty eight hours.

It's gonna be real painful.

Missed you.

You would definitely miss.

And she was so phenomenal in this first episode.

She really was.

It was like, but if you had been there, it's like she's in Oliver First.

I've lost my entire fortune.

Yeah, you know it was like that.

There was something about the fortune.

Yes, yeah, at one.

Point she said fortune.

I think they softened it, but it was like, fortune is gone.

I do.

Fortune is one of my words.

I like to say my fortune.

I love fortune.

Say you know has a great fortune, fortune of beauty.

That's why we use fortune.

All right, we gotta do.

I don't think so, honey.

It's time to get our giggles out about things in culture.

Okay, so this is our sixty second segment where we take exactly that amount of time one minute to rent and rail against something in culture.

I have a thing.

I've realized that something that I never thought i'd have to.

Do is going to be something I will gotta do.

Okay, this is Matt Rogers.

I don't think so many as time starts now, I.

Don't think so, honey.

I think I have to learn to ski.

I've started seeing someone who's and it's a big part of this person's life, and I feel like it was already a big part of my sister's life, and I thought this was a good thing to bring up on this episode because I don't think, so honey, me skiing ever before this, I really do feel like I'm gonna get hurt.

And what I really don't think, so honey, is an injury at this point in my life, Like who needs a torn al at thirty five?

You know, I don't think, so honey, that being I'm told it's quote unquote fun.

I'm told it's quote unquote easy to do.

In the beginning the bunny hills, I know those sound kind of simpler because a bunny is a very simple animal, the way it hops, et cetera.

But the thing is like, I don't know about me and my coordination.

I'm a six foot one man second, not known for my dexterity, and but I would say, you know what I'm saying, It's like I was never good at like the surfing, and this, the snowboarding or whatever side second is so new to me.

I will try.

I don't think, so honey, though, if I get really hurt, you have to pay for it.

Oh oh, and how did I get you?

And I don't think so honey, rebettal to that I don't think you.

Can't want Yes, this will count is yours and then we'll go to me.

No.

You probably came in with the topic.

No, and I was panic is gonna make you guys?

Now I've got one.

Let's ta okay, okay, this is Heather Gaze.

I don't think so, honey.

Oh, I caught another historic episode.

We're going out of order.

This is Heather Gaze.

I don't think so many her time starts now.

I don't think so, honey.

Matt Rogers using I need to learn to ski as a ploy to let us all know about his Mars press and the fact that he might need some extra help on the hill.

Also, I don't think so, honey, Away for him to say, I'm gonna need a lot of support.

Don't expect too much.

I have to pay for it.

Yeah, Like he's doing everything he can to make sure he gets some hot ski patrol guys to guide him down the bunny iron, a saana and a hot rub.

This is gonna be harder than it looks.

I don't think so, honey.

Matt Rogers pretending that he's scared about getting hurt to ourn acl when you're over a fifty baby, your body is in great shape, and all you want is for us to tell you you're not gonna get hurt.

You're a natural athlete.

You're gonna be a stats Also, surfing has nothing to do with skis a boardy neither.

So your plight is unheard and like you're gonna be just fine, and wow, you're right.

I just need to shut the fuck up.

I don't think I don't want to get hurt this body.

It's the truth.

You are so good at skiing.

You are honestly, I didn't know if this is a joke, the episodes from Utah.

I don't just moonlight there.

I am so bowen.

I'm just an Eskimo Ski Club Colorado.

I was so.

I was a Keystone guy.

I was a Keystone boy.

We still go there.

You were beaver Creek veil.

I love beaver creeking veil.

I need you guys to hit the slopes.

I would have loved that.

Okay, go on and I will absolutely do anything together.

Did you see us weeping together.

The way that I saw you?

Guys absolutely connect?

Think also, can I can I just share a little thing that happened in that same gazebo.

Please.

So I'm over on the side with with Amanda and Sierra from Summerhouse, who are both perfect and so Kyle just stunning.

And so we had been hanging out a lot with Amanda but Sierra because because we were all doing the like Amazon or something.

So it was finally they were all linked up, and so DJ Kyle Cook was doing DJ Kyle Cook cool boy stuff out there opening up the Ludicrous.

So Kyle comes in and he's amped because he just crushed.

He's like he was just acting like he was like a kid on Christmas.

I love.

It was awesome, So like, dude, it was so great, dude, and then Ludicrous's person starts the opening.

DJ starts playing, so Kyle's like, we gotta go, we gotta go, and then like Kyle runs off, a bunch of people follow Kyle, and I'm like, okay, we're gonna go, and Amanda goes, I haven't even gotten a new gless of wine.

Can we take a second.

And Sierra is still sitting and she's like, I know, And I realized this is my moment to be cool in front of Sierra Miller, so totally against my personality.

I'm usually running after Kyle Cook.

So I go, I go in front of and Amanda.

I go, yeah, like why are we running?

And Sierra goes yeah.

For a second, I was like doing drag to be cool enough, and then I like got to sit down and like talk to them for a second and I was just like hell, yeah, I did it.

And then a half second later, AKA, now I'm like uncool.

But I saw my second and of course then you heard yeah, and I was like out there.

But then we had such an amazing see you.

You got on their level as like like you you got a code switching.

Icon, You're talking to a Mormon house spywitch.

It's all.

Yeah, it was.

It was, truly it was.

It was a good moment for me.

Lots happened in that because a lot goes down on the gazebo.

Yeah.

I was spread of man, loved it, loved it all.

Okay, so I've lost the phone, it's fallen under Okay, I'll do quick.

He left out of one bowen yanks.

I don't think so, honey, and his time starts now, I don't think so, honey.

Of the fact that I did not wait to get my first botox at Beauty Lab and Laser.

I got it done at the German.

And I really genuinely was holding out on the next time I go to Salt Lake City, whenever that will be, I will get my first okay, botulism and join talks talks talks.

I'll get my first talks in my face.

My guy's a minimalist, he says.

I say, I have to raise my eyebrows and express myself for work.

He says, I'll go minimal This shit is crazy.

Thirty seconds, I'm I'm I'm new to this.

You look amazing.

You seem so surprised.

This is this is?

Do I do?

I?

I seem so surprised.

Can I what's my range?

I don't know about this.

I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm to really ease up on it.

I try it.

Maybe not for me all the time, maybe now and then in like the summer when I'm like, oh, like, I'm you know, I want to look dewey.

But I should have waited to go to Beauty Lab and Laser.

A sight of five second history television culture history.

I'm sorry I did not go and be a patron to your business.

How they're gay.

Compored for life, and you look perfect, and that's one minute.

I will say, it looks great, raise.

Your eyebrows for me, and now make an angry face.

This is my.

Elevens are still there?

Who advised him?

See, my dorm says he'll only ever give it, So I have it in between my uh, your eleven brows?

You're eleven?

Yeah, but my it's actually the triangle of sadness.

Okay, so I have it in my triangle of sadness, I suppose.

But my dorm says he'll never give it to me on my forehead because my brow is too prodounce, uh, flat and thick.

What do you think about this?

And I'm worried about my own grimys.

When a guy says to me that he'll never give it to me in the area I have asked, I usually break up them.

Oh oh my god, that works for botox, that works for same, that works.

For well, you know what he says to me.

He goes, well he's gonna do We'll do your elevens.

And then he goes and maybe a little bit over here, he's like, but I'll never do your forehead because I don't want your you're you're proud because he wants me to be expressive as an actor, which of course, but then I was like, but what about my understunde?

I am not expressive as an actor.

I cannot even lift a muscle on my face.

I don't know if I'm smiling or crying or shocked and have Do you not feel my you feel it all?

We feel it all?

Then not do not fear the needle, fear the furrowed lines that will aid you prematurely well like vulnerably.

The only thing I'm really like, not good about is like just my bags under my eyes and like the like the wrinkles under my eyes are here.

He goes, you are a candidate for a lower bleffo, and I was like, oh what.

A lower bleffo?

A lower bleffo, a lower bluff oplasty.

So now I.

Just think there's something sexual that only Duram said.

I gave him on the slopes.

But I need a lot of help coming down the.

Mountain and I need a bleffo stat geez.

But yeah no, now now just bleffo is something in my vocabulary.

I'm telling everyone, Well, you know I'm a candidate.

You know you can give you ask ask the housewives saying, have you had an upper left upper blaff or lower bluff?

We just say bluff b L.

E P A P.

So when I go to Bravo, I'll just say bluff LB.

I'll do a U bupper bluff.

Anyways, well, Heather, I think we should take Matt to kay ski weeek or something.

For sure, I'm on board.

Would be left to coax you down the mountain.

No torn a c l on my watch.

I will be so good at the app ray part.

That's the only thing that matters, is.

The funnest part.

But you have to do the it's it's it's interesting.

You do have to like suffer through the actual to make the upper even more enjoyable.

Yeah, you have to feel the cold in order to enjoy the hot exactly.

I get it.

Okay, Well much in the future.

Listen, guys, Saltlake City, I am your hostess.

All the wives are your host is.

Well, we're gonna have to do like a couple of days with you, a couple of days with Ann.

We'll just do an airbnb and we'll I'll bring them all in one by one.

I'll make sure that they, you know, kiss the ring before they're allowed to become before they're invited.

So Angie, Angie's first ever Watch What Happens Live was with Bow and Yang.

And she was so she was like nervous, she was nervous.

She was so nervous.

And she still thanks me to this day for making her feel at ease.

And that was that a time when I didn't know how to feel about Angie because she was so new to being an official housewife, and I was like, I don know, like I love Meredith, Like does what does this mean?

Just the sweetness was so apparent.

I was like, Oh, she's she's just an angel on this earth.

I can already tell you just have no choice but to be nice to this person.

Yeah, she's love.

Shauna left over there and then and you know, we just about it.

She gave me her number.

She's like, you were invited anytime.

She's I mean, she's wonderful.

She also has a sliced tongue of great shade, which we should not despair, if we should honor equally.

I love it.

I mean I forget she has the range eyes.

I think it's actually an All.

Timers are all timers, they really are.

My daughter loves dinosaurs.

Can you make a video?

Yeah, my daughter loves from his face.

She's a great communicator.

You.

We can see how expressive you are.

You are one of our great vessels of pathos and joy.

You experience it all.

You reflect the human condition back to us as we watch.

Heather Gay, thank you so much for coming on our humble podcast.

Yes, thank you so much.

Really Fun Cities on Tuesdays on Bravo, Bravo, Age, Seventh Central, Correct Correct.

Who Knows, and streaming on Peacock Alone with the Culture Awards.

We end every episode with the song thank you for being a friend.

Travel down the road.

I'm back again.

Your heart is true.

You're a pel and a confident.

I actually said friends in a confidant.

Am I allowed to join in?

Or is that like?

Yes?

That is perfect?

And if you're a part.

In battle, every one you knew.

You get me and the corn and tas would.

Say thank you for being a friend by yah yay so lost.

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Podcasts, created and hosted by Matt Rogers and Bowen Yet, executive produced by Anna Hasbier and produced by Becca Ramos.

Edited a mix by Doug Babe and our music is by Henry Morsky.

Yeah,