Native Lamb Pod is a production of our Heart Radio in partnership with Reason Choice Media.

Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome.

And welcome to our mini pod.

Welcome home, y'all.

This is always an amazing Native Land production here where we get an opportunity to just sell the complimentary Yeah.

No, we get an opportunity to that was that was us self complimented?

Yes, And while we are grieving missing our homegirl Tiffany Cross on this show, we do have for the first time the three of us joining together for this mini pod.

And we got an interesting question that was asked and I actually, uh, this was this was my idea if y'all can't tell, but I want to pose it to the larger group.

Can we browe that question real quick?

And then I want to think about it.

I want to I want Andrew to start with this.

No, why why a G Because I talked too much?

I wait, No, I don't do that.

No, you just covered the whole pod, so rude.

Hello Native Land Pod.

My name is Paula Chandler.

I am sixty two years old and a native of Washingtonian and I have been with you guys from day one.

My question to the group is, and it's kind of a hypothetical but maybe more of a discussion point for maybe a mini pod.

But there was a bio series on Showtime a couple of years ago that featured three First Ladies, Michelle Obama, Eleanor Roosevelt, and Betty Ford.

And there was one scene where Michelle Obama, they and Barack were transitioning out of the White House.

Trump had been voted in in twenty sixteen, and Michelle Obama played Viola Davis asked the question do they hate us that much to vote this kind of person into office?

I'm pair for raising, but that's what the gist of it was.

And my question to the group is what would this country look like if Barack Obama was never president?

Miss Paula, thank you for your thank you for your question, thank you for the death.

Wait can I ask a question, Macaary, Is this the same show?

I never watched the show, but is this the same show?

Where Viola Davis looks at who is supposed.

To be Barack Obama said, because you are nic is it that show?

I don't.

She made some very strange facial expressions throughout the.

We need can we run next?

No?

No, controversial, David.

She knows I love her, but.

She played that part hard.

It was hard.

This is the this is y'all are miss see.

This is why I don't This why I'm not the lead.

This is this is what I'm talking about.

You have the floor, yep.

So I thought the question.

Paula.

Shout out to you.

You look amazing to be fifty years young.

Ain't no way you sixty two.

I know all that whispering you doing at you at your desk right there.

We love it them frames.

You've been drinking your water in minding your business.

It's a great question about what happens.

Have y'all ever thought about that if Barack Obama was an elected president?

I have you well, let's hear it.

I want to you were supposed to.

Haven't know.

I haven't given a lot of consideration to us.

I like it.

H I mean, I may go ahead, Angela, so go ahead tell me what you think.

I feel like I talked a lot in the last show, So please have your floor.

You actually didn't.

You didn't talk enough.

But you didn't.

You didn't talk enough.

But like, but I'll have the floor.

Yeah, I'm gonna take it.

But you but you definitely.

Your voice is definitely so controversial.

So you go, I'll be sandwiched between the two diplomats.

Well, I just think that they're too things that there are two things that I would say about Barack Obama if he was not elected president.

The first is that there is a picture that I remember from Jacob Philadelphia.

Y'all may or may not remember Jacob Philadelphia, but at the time he was four years old, he was in the White House, his parents had just gotten decommissioned, and he got an opportunity to ask the president one question, and he said, does your hair feel like mine?

And the shade God as we call him, Pete SUSA, captured that image of Barack Obama leaning over and letting Jacob Philadelphia shout out to Jacob.

I think he just graduated college or is in college now, which to make you feel old.

But I just think that Barack Obama's presidency meant so much to an entire generation of young black and brown children that they could grow up and be anything in the world.

There was so much hope just about we're not talking about his accomplishments, we're not talking about the criticisms we have, We're not talking about him using drones.

We're not talking about you know, the Affordable Care Act, of successes, all of those things.

But what we are talking about is just what he meant in terms of hope for black people, and I think that they're there is a lot to say that a black man can be president.

That's first.

Second.

I am really really pleased at my father and all the work of our parents, Eddie Rott, and just the heroes and heroines we know, who bled, who got shot, many of which who died, who you know, paid the ultimate what Abraham Lincoln called the last measure of devotion, so that we could make you know, some similance of progress in this country.

I'm glad they got an opportunity to see, you know, a black man get elected in this country.

I'm glad they got an opportunity to see that.

So I think the hope and the reward, although you know, you know, we've taken multiple steps back, I think I think that means a lot.

So that's why those those are the those are the kind of points I would make if he didn't get elected.

And I don't know what the country looks like without him, but I do know that he made a great deal of progress, not as much as we would have wanted.

And I just think think about about going from George W.

Bush to Donald Trump.

Yeah, I I go back and forth about this so much, and not about whether or not he should have been president, because I know how much it meant to me that we had Barack Obama as our president.

What I will say is it felt divine.

It felt like he was called when all the odds were against him, there was still a path created.

I remember, you know, crying and begging my congressional boss at the time to endorse him.

There was a split in the Congressional Black Caucus where you know after it.

I wasn't the CBC executive director yet, but when I became the ED, I learned that Barack Obama was hardly active and that a lot of them felt like he wasn't very respectful and definitely wasn't deferential to them, and that was hard.

And then having sat in meetings with him and the CBC, it was difficult to watch his behavior, including him doodling the entire time in a meeting.

I walked over to make sure that's what he was doing.

I went to go look at the notepad after he was doodling the entire time the members of Congress were talking.

And yet when you look at who replaced him, you can't help but to understand just how presidential he was, and just how much he earned that position, and just how much he was overqualified when you consider the competition.

I don't agree with every decision he made.

I don't agree with the advice that he currently gives to people who may one day fill his shoes.

I don't like his posture on reparations.

I don't think that we did the right thing on healthcare.

I don't think we went far enough if we broke or deals with insurance companies that are now stabbing the American people in the back on healthcare so that they can still make handover fist and premiums arising because the Republicans are deciding that greed is far more important than the livelihood of the American people, our ability to survive.

So what I think was shortsighted about that administration is just how greedy people can be on a bipartisan and nonpartisan level.

And I think that there were places where progressivism was was denied so that they could so that they could yeah sidelined is a better word, so that they could be deemed as acceptable.

And still he wasn't accepted right.

So it's like, at what cost If you're going to have this super majority and this opportunity to do something with people who think like you, why not do it?

And then here's the thing that I also know, working on the hill at that time, he really didn't have everyone because he had a majority in the House and in the Senate.

He had that in word, but not indeed right.

And we saw that even with the healthcare fallout, members of Congress who voted with him and then lost their seats.

Even if he had those members or people who were willing to risk it, all their constituents weren't.

And I think that is also important to note.

And I think it didn't take long for us to see just how much this country would turn.

I want you all to remember, this is my last point.

The Voting Rights Act since its inception, had always been a bipartisan vote, an overwhelming bipartisan vote since nineteen sixty five.

The moment the tide changed on that is after Barack Obama's election.

So this country felt like it threw us a bone, only to take it back and to do it in such a way that it was damn near violent.

And I think that is the piece that we also have to wrestle with.

They thought they were giving us something, not that they were receiving something from someone who was one of ours.

And I think that is so treacherous.

And when you look at how far we come, whether we talk about the dismantling of affirmative action, of course, voting rights, or elements of the Civil Rights Act or EEOC, the Department of Education, all the things that were stood up to ensure that we would be protected.

They're even taking ruby bridges off of a coin in the two hundred and fiftieth anniversary of this damn country.

Right, These are the things that we have to wrestle with the why.

And I still think because of that reason, whether it was just the symbolic election of Barack Obama, which again I think it was much more than a symbol, I think that would have been sufficient.

Andrew, I appreciate both your points.

I do think he should.

She gonna selected Merrick Garland, though, Okay, keep.

Going, well, I would double downtap whatever that is, because big mistake in my opinion.

But that wasn't the only big mistake.

I think there were a lot of big mistakes.

I talked sometimes about negotiating against ourselves.

I think there was a lot of negotiating against what was possible for, you know, sort of plausible options.

But you know what is we reflect on a lot of presidencies.

I think that can also be said.

I don't want to single the Obama presidency out for that.

I do think it was a sim certainly a symbolic presidency, but not transformational.

And I disagree, but go ahead.

Symbolism of it was is not to be undermined.

It's not to be reduced the symbolism of it what it meant.

And I have to tell you this, and I don't know if this is controversial or not, but I actually appreciated the symbolism of Michelle Obama as first Lady more than I probably appreciated the symbolism of Barack Obama as as as president.

I think Michelle Obama's presidence there unleashed something I think far more lasting in black women in our community and black boys, black men too.

And again we could we could probably debate the ins and outs of it.

But but even today this moment, I feel her presence more lasting as first as as first Lady, and what she meant for the country despite all of the bulletin arrows that she had to take and intercept throughout the campaign and also through throughout the governing.

When I think about the transformational part of it and what was possible the sixty one votes in the US Senate and the and the overwhelming Democratic majorities in the House.

Remember, we didn't get healthcare in those numbers.

We had healthcare after we fell below that sixty and after we lost some seats even in the House.

It was the death of Kennedy that took us to fifty nine and all the dramatics that happened around that because the President had set up to this point that we would only pass healthcare with a sixty plus and a bipartisan way, with a sixty plus majority in the US Senate.

And that's when Nancy came in and said, you said sixty, I say fifty one, and then began all the negotiations and antits that got us to the version of healthcare that we ultimately got.

But before we even got to a bill on paper, there were huge negotiations that didn't include the American people that took away all the possibilities before we got to what was possible.

And that's really one of the things that really sticks in my crawl about the transformational or the lack of the transformational at that time.

And it wasn't just that there were lots of policy pieces, not to mention the appointments pieces.

I still maintain that had Barack Obama nominated a black woman to the Supreme Court as his last last and that last final year, that we would have had a we would have had a black woman on the US Supreme Court.

The fact that Mayor Garland could not muster even the support of white men moderates to be part of the base of of his of his appointment, and nobody else in the country happened to be excited about him.

There was no rallying cry for his appointment.

We would never have allowed, I think the Republicans, nor do I believe they would have had the audacity to steal a black woman seat on the Supreme Court quite the way they did a white man, a moderate white man, with.

Very little support quite frankly from the country.

These are obviously, what do you call it, backseat quarterback observations are making we couldn't.

Nobody could have known these things in the moment.

Even though I felt very strongly about a black woman appointment appointed and that last appointment, I wouldn't change the election of Barack Obama.

I think its symbolism was important, but mostly the coupled symbolism I think was important.

But the transformation, the losing of seven hundred plus legislative seats around the country that threw us into a ridiculous redistricting process where we lost a far more than what I think we could have and should have gained.

There are just a lot of clawbacks that.

Came with that, that came with that moment of history that I sometimes wonder if it was worth it from a political policy standpoint, And I probably will come down on the side that from political policy, probably not from a symbolic perspective, probably, so I'm split on it.

But nonetheless I'm I'm very much so proud that that Barack Obama was able to break that ceiling, and hopefully the next opportunity that we have will take us, you know, twice as far, you know as his.

You know.

The one thing that I hope we get from this as a people, though, is that even when we elect a leader who looks like us and things like us in many ways, we still have an obligation to make demands, to have requirements, and to make our requests known.

We took such an approach.

I mean, like.

Literally, I got half hate mail from racist at the Congressional Black Caucus and half hate mail from black people.

Don't you say nothing about the president?

The saving Sea should not be challenging Barack Obama.

Y'all had that conversation quietly.

It's like their role is actually to push policy that isn't the best interests of their constituents.

And we have this on that show Angela early on, and anytime we would have a critique, it was like, we don't need to do that, but I think we definitely need to do it.

Out Like, I think that the critique is fair.

I think the critique, though, as you said, is a lot in hindsight, because I think that you I think that if you look at Barack Obama's presidency, like repealing Don't Ask, Don't Tell, Lily led Better, Wall Street Reform, right, if you look at the Affordable Care Act, I mean, the list kind of goes on and on and on with some of the things.

I mean, he saved he saved Michigan, like he said, he saved the auto industry.

Those things are real policy changes.

Now the question is now, what what what if you somebody, somebody's gonna be in the comments, what did he do for black folk?

Right?

So, I hear you, and I do think that Mary Garland was a horrible choice.

I don't think Mitch mcconnall was going to give us a seat, but I do wish that he would have gone out with a p y oh to help Tillory tremendously.

So, but I get all those things.

I think that I think that we judge Barack Obama through the lens of Donald Trump in two ways.

The first is Donald Trump.

With this president, she has shown you what is possible.

He has shown you that there that anything the president wants to do, he can do it.

Presidential presidential power largely goes unchecked.

The president is willing to break those things.

That's first.

And on the flip side of it, I use Barack Obama as a symbol all the time he was editor in chief of the Law Review.

He had to be, you know, the top tenth of one percent in order to be elected president of the United States, And I wouldn't hire Donald Trump to run a McDonald's right.

And so I just think that there are a few lenses that we look at Barack Obama through, through the lens of Donald Trump.

And I also think that if Hillary Clinton would have gotten elected like she should have gotten elected, then Barack Obama's legacy is probably shiny er because some of those things that we're talking about would have been strengthened, preserved, et cetera.

YadA YadA YadA.

So life is funny, man, and politics is funny.

But I am I'm proud of Barry.

Barry could have done more.

I'm more proud of Celli.

Oh and those things.

They raised an amazing family in the White House under the glare of all those.

Things, with their mama.

And here move moved her mama right on.

In there, missus, miss Robinson, may may she rest in power.

Well, I wouldn't hire Donald Trump to run an errand.

But the truth is is Barack Obama probably you know, he really did initiate the ex not initiate because the presidents, all presidents try to expand power, but he expanded presidential power while he was president.

I mean, you don't remember much of the ex Everyone, every.

Every one of them has sought to expand the power of the office.

Those drone strikes that were very contentious during the time, mostly on the left.

A lot of the folks on the.

Left were highly critical of of Quite frankly, while Donald Trump may be doing it with soldiers, Barack was doing it with you know, with flights and drones to.

Take out UH leaders.

We also including Latin Well, not that.

I was I want to mention that in my list of accomplishments, I was going to say that he probably had one of the greatest foreign foreign policy accomplishments with the killing of Osama bin Laden, that any president's had in recent history.

He also deported more people than any president in the collection up to that point.

I'm not citing that.

I'm not citing that as a negative or positive.

I'm simply saying at during his presidency heat well, it isn't.

I just wasn't making the point for that reason.

I was making the point to say that he didn't often wait on an invitation or license for certain things.

He also showed hubris in the offices as well, and I think in some ways his lived experience probably not being a black man from the traditional South unleashed his license in ways that I think would have constrained a traditional African American from the traditional geopolitical South serving an in office.

I think his lived experience, how he now that is.

Now that's a fact.

I mean, you know, you know, being yeah, no, no, no, no, no, that's a whole hearted fact.

Not going to an HBCU.

Being raised in the way that he was raised in Kansas, in Hawaii, not not the traditional South.

You know, all of those things are true.

I do think though he had more formidable foes and allies.

For the best example I can give you is that I don't think anybody would say that Chuck Schumer is nearly as formidable a foe as Mitch McConnell was when he was absolutely not.

Is he a friend?

Does Harry Reid?

Nor is?

And I'm going to say that you, I mean, the constraints that that that Barack Obama had were their names were Nancy Pelosi and Mitch McConnell.

I mean, that's just that, that is, and those were more formidable figures than we have today.

I'll wrap up my comments on this just just this week Mike, I mean, Mark Kelly said that we no longer have three branches of government.

John Bayner too.

That's true, formidable, But but Mark Kelly said, we no longer have three branches of government because the House of Representatives and Republicans succeeded their power.

Barack Obama at least operated under three co equal branches of government, which can But.

The Supreme Court is also helping these three co equal branches of government disappear.

And that's the thing I was going to bring up.

We're talking about him utilizing or over utilizing presidential power.

He tried to make a recess appointment to the Labor Relations Board that the Supreme Court at the time said he could not do constitutionally.

This Supreme Court is telling Donald Trump forget the constitution.

You know.

Yeah, I mean, but but guess what we can trace back the makeup of the Supreme Court decisions made administration.

Well they weren't they weren't his decision though, And this way the people get old.

But no, no, no, no, no, ruthber Ruth Bader Ginsburg was a problem.

And people on the left do not like me to say that out loud.

No, I mean, everybody retired.

Anybody knows that.

And I got a picture with her.

Forms the pressure brought to bear.

I gotta go, I gotta go get some ice cream.

You bought this up.

I brought it up because it was a good topic.

I want you to It's still.

A good topic.

But we don't all agree.

And it's nuanced, right, it's very nuanced.

And and no.

We're not afraid to criticize a black man, which you should be able to do.

And you should be able to hold people accountable who we vote for and challenge.

Yes, that's what love looks like.

And how you're gonna get better if we don't do that.

Well, my kids have nut egg and shell fish allergy.

So I'm going to pick up Happy Happy Birthday, SAYI stokely.

I'm going to pick up a ice cream cake to celebrate their life.

I would be nothing without them.

Although I love Angela and Andrew, Angela more than Andrew slightly.

Uh but but shout out to everyone.

Thank you for joining the Native Lamp Pod, thank you for joining U Mini Pod, and Welcome.

Home, Go Home, Welcome Home.

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