[SPEAKER_00]: you deserve more than feeling constantly fried to a crisp.

[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to Fried, the burnout podcast, where you get the understanding, the community, and the information you need to end burnout for good.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm your host Kate Dunovan and all of my work focuses on hashtag ending burnout culture.

[SPEAKER_00]: Outside the pod, you'll find me on stages at conferences, giving keynotes, in offices, providing corporate trainings, doing virtual VIP one-on-one work, or supporting our group program on Friday that is run by my right-hand woman Sarah Vosin.

[SPEAKER_00]: Both Sarah and I have been through burnout and came out stronger, happier, and more fulfilled.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we want that post burnout growth for you too.

[SPEAKER_00]: Hi, fried fam.

[SPEAKER_02]: Today is a special episode with a participant from a former group of unfried.

[SPEAKER_02]: So today I have with me Emily Slovakka.

[SPEAKER_02]: and I had her pronounce her name because I didn't want to butcher it.

[SPEAKER_02]: I want to honor where that lesson came from and how to say it.

[SPEAKER_02]: So thank you Emily for being here today and what else were you just going to say?

[SPEAKER_01]: Well I appreciate the opportunity to share my story.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm super happy to be here and I was just going to say I'm a proud graduate of Unfried.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, this is so fun to do this episode today and hear more about your overall experience with On Friday and specifically sharing your experience with all the podcast listeners because tell them what you told me your goal is for today.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think it would be a success if one person listens to this podcast episode who feels like I'm maybe burned out, but I don't think I'm burned out enough to get help and then they hear this episode and they say yes, I can get help now.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't have to wait until I'm ashes and dust.

[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely, I hope that happens.

[SPEAKER_02]: So if that's you and your ears just perked up, keep listening.

[SPEAKER_02]: So Emily, that said, what was going on for you when you decided to join on Friday?

[SPEAKER_02]: Because I know you were walking that line like, am I a bird doubt?

[SPEAKER_02]: Am I a bird doubt enough?

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know, but what happened?

[SPEAKER_02]: What tip the scales for you that made you feel like it's time?

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I was considering joining on Friday earlier in the year in the spring.

[SPEAKER_01]: I ended up joining towards the end of the year in the winter.

[SPEAKER_01]: I spent months just slowly declining down and finally got to the point of being really emotional at that time, like crying a lot, which is not really my normal state and just feeling so overwhelmed that any little request from work or home felt like it was just too much.

[SPEAKER_01]: My pot [SPEAKER_01]: Considering leaving the job that I was in quitting, I had no idea what I was going to do, but I just I couldn't it's all like I couldn't take another step.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I have to get some help.

[SPEAKER_02]: like yeah something and I remember you ended up coming the group had just started you ended up coming to office hours and in that call it sort of was like yep it's time like yep this is where I need to be.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah do you remember that?

[SPEAKER_01]: I do remember that and I can't remember what we talked about but I do remember leaving the call feeling validated that I could get the help and that I should give myself the support that I needed.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I did join the program [SPEAKER_01]: late in the sense that I missed the kick-off call and I listened to that actually while my husband was getting surgery, which is kind of a random place to listen to it.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right, but then makes it like a memorable moment of like, here I go.

[SPEAKER_02]: Here I am going, you know, the start of this journey while we're at this kind of [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: So, what did you hope would happen when you joined on Friday?

[SPEAKER_02]: What were your kind of hopes and expectations and desires for the program for yourself coming out the other end of the program?

[SPEAKER_02]: I should say.

[SPEAKER_01]: You're probably going to laugh at this, but I really was hoping that I would get acknowledgement that my job was a toxic work environment and that it was [SPEAKER_01]: that I could quit and that it was the right thing to do.

[SPEAKER_01]: I wanted to blame others so so much.

[SPEAKER_02]: And that is funny knowing what we did and on Friday.

[SPEAKER_02]: So that said, did your desires change as you went through the program?

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: a lot, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it was, it was, I actually didn't really have any expectations of what it would be.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I read the sales page so I knew what the modules would cover, but I sort of walked into it without any expectations other than hoping that I would be justified in quitting and blaming everyone else.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right, I remember that first message that you sent to our like [SPEAKER_02]: Or maybe it was after you'd been in for a minute and then you ask Kate what are the, like characteristics of a toxic workplace specifically and you did a deep dive on that.

[SPEAKER_02]: You'd ask chatGPT for some extra details and then you came back to the group and you were like, crap, my job's not toxic.

[SPEAKER_02]: My work is, isn't toxic and that's not what you were expecting to find out, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: that was not what I was expecting to find out and K provided a really great response in the Facebook group associated with the podcast and also I want to say included some research which my analytical brain loved and I had to really take stock okay the company that I worked for I work in corporate America so it can be a toxic work space and that's not to [SPEAKER_01]: spaces aren't toxic, but my particular situation was by and large.

[SPEAKER_01]: Actually, pretty great.

[SPEAKER_01]: I had great relationships, a lot of support resources.

[SPEAKER_01]: The problem was me and how I was over-functioning.

[SPEAKER_01]: And once we, once I came to terms with that, then the real work began in OnFread.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, right.

[SPEAKER_02]: You wanted to point fingers outward and then it was like, [SPEAKER_02]: I guess it's me and my experience of this workplace, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe your expectations, your your your relationship with your workplace in work ethic, really, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: So is there a difference between on Friday one you and present to you?

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: Can you name some of the ways that you are [SPEAKER_01]: I think I'm a lot more peaceful and calm and I was able to start a meditation practice and continue it a daily meditation.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm working on getting up to two sessions a day, but that was something I've never been able to do.

[SPEAKER_01]: My entire not my entire life, because obviously I didn't know about meditation as a child, but [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe let's say over the last like 15 years, it's something I've been trying to do.

[SPEAKER_02]: And what used to happen when you tried to meditate prior to working, all the work you didn't on Pride?

[SPEAKER_01]: I would do it for a day and then quit or do it for a couple days and quit or just get just follow all the thoughts to the point of feeling overwhelmed and just that this doesn't work.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I really wanted to do it and I was finally able to do it.

[SPEAKER_01]: That was one thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: I wouldn't say I'm successful all of the time, but I definitely and a lot better at acknowledging what my capacity is, which you helped us differentiate between capability and capacity, [SPEAKER_01]: so useful and not a framework I had ever heard of out.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't know if you want to elaborate on that, but that for me was huge with my work.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, it maybe it's plain why, because I don't know, I think a lot of times people confuse capability and capacity.

[SPEAKER_02]: So what did that distinction or what did providing that distinction do for you that made a big difference?

[SPEAKER_01]: So my capability and I would say probably a lot of people who burn out, their capability is very high.

[SPEAKER_01]: They can do a lot of things, but their capacity is low, which makes them not able to do all the things that they could normally do.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so you have to focus on building that capacity back up to the level that you [SPEAKER_01]: want to be able to do things.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so it allowed me to recognize that I needed to invest more in love the phrase self-care, but self-care stuff to build my capacity back up so that I was capable of doing the things I wanted to do.

[SPEAKER_02]: Just taking care of yourself.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_02]: So what are the ways that you that on Friday to help you take care of yourself that boosted your capacity and therefore increased or brought you back into your full capability?

[SPEAKER_01]: I had to start with taking things away which I really didn't want to do and you had us do that exercise with the tree with the branches and the roots.

[SPEAKER_02]: The life pruning?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, the pruning.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I really didn't want to do it because I knew that it would require me to ask for help and ask for help multiple times to multiple people and to say no and to do things okay not amazing.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, and I love what you said.

[SPEAKER_02]: I remember in the closing call you brought this up and you said, I didn't want to prune anything.

[SPEAKER_02]: I really wanted to resist pruning, but what happened when you just made the list, when you acknowledged the things in your life that weren't working for you that maybe you wanted to delegate or like go of or change in some way.

[SPEAKER_02]: What happened?

[SPEAKER_02]: It was almost like magic.

[SPEAKER_01]: As soon as I wrote the list down, [SPEAKER_01]: things started to come off of my plate.

[SPEAKER_01]: And some of it just, for things just resolved naturally, which is like manifestation.

[SPEAKER_01]: But there were some things that I, when I look at them, it didn't even make sense for me to be doing them.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it was, [SPEAKER_01]: either not my responsibility, or it was an opportunity for somebody else to grow in the company and demonstrate that they also had the capacity to move into a leadership position.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I had to acknowledge either some things are a trim and others are the chainsaw up above your head, hacking away at the limb and some of them did feel like that, but when [SPEAKER_01]: When they were finally off of my plate, I felt so much relief, so much lightness, and I didn't miss them at all.

[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't care what happened to those things when they were off my plate.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's that's the outcome I was hoping for, but interesting that you were like, no, it made your resistance prior to that happening and then it was like, oh, thank God.

[SPEAKER_02]: Great.

[SPEAKER_02]: So that is a major difference.

[SPEAKER_02]: Would you say, [SPEAKER_02]: You're burnt out right now.

[SPEAKER_02]: Do you feel like you're through your burnout recovery or are you still on the path?

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if I can answer that question if I'm fully recovered, but I think that I can say, I know when I'm taking too much on, I know I can feel when my energy level is dip, when it becomes harder for me to accomplish tasks when when I'm [SPEAKER_01]: the burnout risk and protection factor list that we had to go off of.

[SPEAKER_01]: I can I can tell when I'm dipping into the the risk factors too much and I think that one of the things that I loved about the program there was a lot of research and science and great information and also you brought in the Chinese medicine aspect to it.

[SPEAKER_01]: So there was an energetic aspect and you kept pushing me to [SPEAKER_01]: get into my energy and focus on the inside of things and being more engaged with how my body felt and listening to my energy has really helped me navigate how I feel and the choices that I make and so I can't say for sure like yes I'm 100% recover total success but I feel really good most of the time and I am very aware of when I start to deviate from that.

[SPEAKER_02]: cool.

[SPEAKER_02]: That means you are tuned to your body in the messages that it's sending you at this point.

[SPEAKER_02]: Prior to joining on Friday, did you use any of your body's messages to kind of decide, yes or no am I going to do this thing or was it more of like a logical think it through process?

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I'm a former, I've watched of athlete from college and, you know, I'm very into physical activity.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I think I've always had a connection to my energy and, and that sort of thing, but I don't think I ever gave myself permission to follow the energy of my body and like use my mind to overpower it and push through and get it done and grind and all of that kind of stuff.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right, yeah, as a gymnast, I was told to push through.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was like, tape, I'm a profan, I keep going.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yep, right, like my body was talking to me, but I was not supposed to listen to it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: So it's an unlearning of ignoring those signals from your body and coming back to giving them some credit, listening to them, giving them some credit, honoring them, and providing which clearly you've been doing.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then like the key when you have to pee, drink when you're thirsty, that is such a good starting point for anyone.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I try to start all of my meetings with when I'm facilitating the meeting.

[SPEAKER_01]: Hey, if you've been in back to back meetings for the past couple of hours, take the first few minutes of this meeting and go to the bathroom and go get something to drink or eat.

[SPEAKER_01]: We don't try and just plow into it because I know how that feels.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh my god Emily, that is revolutionary potentially for some people who are used to just not peeing and not drinking waters that they don't have to pee until lunch or they end of the work day.

[SPEAKER_02]: Wow, thank you for doing that for your fellow meeting goers.

[SPEAKER_02]: What was the most important lesson you learned on Pride?

[SPEAKER_02]: Would you say ask for help?

[SPEAKER_01]: And [SPEAKER_01]: don't wait until it's too late, until you desperately need it, I am so glad.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I still think I could have signed up earlier, front ride earlier in the year, but I'm so glad that I didn't wait until it was a crisis level to sign up and ask for help.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it's, I had no financial barriers.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was like, [SPEAKER_01]: to give myself support because I wanted to do it all on my own and prove to everyone that I was so strong and I didn't need anything.

[SPEAKER_01]: But then, you know, when I'm thinking about quitting a good job and I'm thinking about, I can't do another thing and crying all the time, I was like, okay, something has to change.

[SPEAKER_01]: And everybody needs help at different points in their life and I don't think there's any shame around that.

[SPEAKER_01]: That for me is just always a good reminder.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I still have like asked for help.

[SPEAKER_01]: I still try and implement that now.

[SPEAKER_02]: So even just signing up for Unforried was maybe the biggest asking for help that you did.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, right, even just trying it on and being like, okay, let's give this a whirl because even when you just said like in the life pruning exercise, you were like, I know I'm gonna need to ask for help and I don't want to.

[SPEAKER_02]: So you took the step of asking for help, like with burnout recovery by joining on Friday, and then it was like, but no more, no more.

[SPEAKER_02]: So what, what it would you say, like beyond, maybe because of the work we did on Friday, what's a specific situation that you got help with it really like made it so clearly easier to get through.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, in the past few months, I have asked for more management stuff on my team because I had assistant managers who had too many team members to manage in addition to their client delivery work.

[SPEAKER_01]: kept saying, where can we add more help for me, more help for others at work, and that has made such a difference.

[SPEAKER_01]: And people are really for the most part excited to help excited for the opportunity.

[SPEAKER_01]: They want to pitch in.

[SPEAKER_01]: I haven't really seen a lot of fine or anything like that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Which they always think is going to be people's reactions.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like I'm imposing on them or bothering [SPEAKER_02]: Right, because I think it inherently feels good to help, but only if you are getting something that you need in return, otherwise it gets depleting over time.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that's why there's so many helpers that burn out because we've been blocking the receiving part, whether it's getting help or from delegation or help from ourselves and self-nourishment and self-care.

[SPEAKER_02]: So, [SPEAKER_02]: I love that.

[SPEAKER_02]: You were like, I don't want to do this.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, let me ask for help and see what happens.

[SPEAKER_02]: And everybody's like, cool, yeah, I want to do it.

[SPEAKER_02]: I want to feel good.

[SPEAKER_02]: I want to help.

[SPEAKER_02]: I want to give back.

[SPEAKER_02]: I want, you know, what a lovely workplace culture.

[SPEAKER_02]: Not toxic at all.

[SPEAKER_01]: No, it's not and I keep trying to do my part to ensure that it stays a non-toxic work environment and maybe even becomes better because I do recognize that I work in the corporate world and there are a lot of negative, let's say toxic productivity perhaps is a good way to say it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that is a way to say that.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, I even try and apply some of the pruning to the work that we have because we always have more work than we have the ability to complete.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think it's really tempting to try and do it all and so.

[SPEAKER_01]: I try and help my team members figure out what actually is not important, what's not critical, what can be pushed off.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I do the same for myself.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't love the idea that you have work life balance or separate your personal life and your work life and the two shall never meet.

[SPEAKER_01]: I just think that never actually works out because people have families and interests and stuff outside of work and so when things come up and real families situations come up, [SPEAKER_01]: We try and help each other out.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, please, go take care of your sick child and get off your computer.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, we're not doing brain surgery here.

[SPEAKER_01]: It can wait.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I try and apply that as well, just creating that culture.

[SPEAKER_02]: Fantastic.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, like really being realistic about workload and resources and flexibility.

[SPEAKER_02]: within your work day and overall deadlines and just making it.

[SPEAKER_02]: I feel like admitting the humanity.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's like bringing humanity into the workplace and into productivity, which sometimes work cultures try to make it, like we are all machines and we're just in this factory and you can pump out this many units of blah, blah, blah, rather than being like, hi, I'm a human and I have a bladder and I need to pee sometimes and I can't do all the things, [SPEAKER_02]: let's blend the tool.

[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I also I work in IT.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I like to remind people that even machines need breaks.

[SPEAKER_01]: They have to come offline for recalibration.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so even the robots take breaks.

[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh my god.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it sounds like potentially, you've even shared already some things that may be surprised you that you learned about yourself while in fried, but is there anything else that comes to mind if I ask you, did you learn anything about yourself that really surprised you in the four months we were together?

[SPEAKER_01]: Hi, it was really surprised at how much I like to do nothing when I allow myself to.

[SPEAKER_02]: I love that answer.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, because we get kind of stuck on productivity, feels good.

[SPEAKER_02]: Achievement feels good, but so does doing nothing.

[SPEAKER_02]: We just forget when we've been in that other mode for a long time, I love it.

[SPEAKER_02]: So it literally doing nothing or is there a favorite way that you have to do nothing?

[SPEAKER_01]: Like I think I'm just going to grease of it, but one of before we moved, we just recently moved this year, but before we did, the house that we used to live in had this deck that was out with like very high deck and so you were kind of like tree level to tree top level and one of my favorite things to do was just.

[SPEAKER_01]: sit on the deck and watch the wind blow through the trees or just watch the clouds and the birds and the sky.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I mean, I guess I was doing something and since I was sitting and watching, but that's it, no phone, no music, nothing, just sitting and watching.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right, just being one with nature.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Love it.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, folks, she just brushed by this, but Emily ended up moving states while in on Friday.

[SPEAKER_02]: So while doing a lot of deep, introspective work, a lot of exercises, she ended up moving.

[SPEAKER_02]: Multiple states over.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I think this is important to note because moving, especially when you aim to do it all on your own, can be so depleting and you were already depleted because you were burnt out in this program.

[SPEAKER_02]: But tell the listeners, [SPEAKER_02]: the ways that you asked for help and delegated and to care of yourself during your move, such that at the end of it, you were like, yeah, that was so bad.

[SPEAKER_02]: I actually feel pretty good now that I moved.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I'm fine.

[SPEAKER_02]: So what did you help yourself?

[SPEAKER_01]: So my husband asked his coworkers to help us load the you all.

[SPEAKER_01]: We ended up having to you all just, certainly that's how it worked out.

[SPEAKER_01]: So for the first time ever, we've moved, I think seven times over a tower of many years we've been together, which is terrible.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know that off the top of my head.

[SPEAKER_01]: But we've moved a lot.

[SPEAKER_01]: And for the first time ever, I didn't have to do all of the hauling with my husband.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it was really nice to have a bunch of help to load the you haul.

[SPEAKER_01]: We hired some help to help us unload when we got to our new home.

[SPEAKER_01]: I actually use the burnout protection factor list to make sure that we were buying a house that hit all the criteria and a neighborhood that hit all the criteria, which was really cool.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, I love that which is folks.

[SPEAKER_02]: Could you all remember Kate's talked about this at other episodes, green space, access to green space and the ability to use it, being surrounded by beauty, especially nature, natural beauty, feeling safe, physically, and psychologically.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then inside your home, you know, it feeling beautiful and safe to you.

[SPEAKER_02]: What else did you look for?

[SPEAKER_02]: Does that cover at all?

[SPEAKER_01]: I think so.

[SPEAKER_02]: Great.

[SPEAKER_02]: I love that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there was the thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: One of the things that always struck me that case that is like going around your home and looking for things that when you say make you feel safe, my initial thought is my understanding of that was like, [SPEAKER_01]: You know, the doors are locked or whatever.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's like a security system, but she was like, even just sharp edges that you constantly bump into is perceived as unsafe in your brain.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so as we start to decorate our house, I have that in mind buying more around furniture, soft things.

[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, I'm looking out, I can see green outside of my window, so I positioned my off, my home office in that way.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so that was really useful to have those, those tips.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we just asked and then the other thing that I did was in addition to having a lot of help with the actual move, I took a full week off of work so that we would have a lot of times unload to put everything where we wanted it to go to set up all the utilities to just explore the area and that felt really spacious to have a full week off.

[SPEAKER_01]: I cannot honestly believe that I thought I was going to work half of the week and move like that's insane.

[SPEAKER_02]: or maybe like a day or like an extended weekend or something.

[SPEAKER_01]: Very little, like just what I try and fit it all in in one day.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then, you know, as you have time, just unpack things.

[SPEAKER_01]: But we were unpacked and moved in within a week.

[SPEAKER_01]: And when I told people that they were so surprised.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I think other people are probably shoving it into the spaces as well.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, totally, and how many times people like they give them just themselves, just enough time to move in.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then boxes sit on packed for a long time, because you're like, you didn't give yourself enough time to really move in.

[SPEAKER_02]: You gave yourself maybe time to move, but not move in and settle in and have time and space to actually like feel into your space.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like you've done to be like, what's the flow?

[SPEAKER_02]: And where do I want to look when I'm sitting on my desk or on my couch?

[SPEAKER_02]: and that what a difference that makes in your everyday living experience after that?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think another thing that just going back to your question about takeaways is I have a lot of privilege in my life and allowing myself to have that time freedom, allowing myself access to resources that I can afford, just giving myself that gift has been really helpful.

[SPEAKER_01]: took the time.

[SPEAKER_01]: I recognize not everybody else that I'm to make a move.

[SPEAKER_01]: We can't just take the week off before work, but I do have that ability and I'm glad that I gave myself that gift.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I was also able to return to work feeling, settled, refreshed, ready to go.

[SPEAKER_02]: love it.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, of course, certain privileges allow you to do that.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it's just an example of ways that we don't often give ourselves permission to help ourselves, you know, maybe in your life, you don't have the same financial privilege, and so it makes it harder or maybe even time privilege.

[SPEAKER_02]: But there are things that we don't tend to think of as high achieving kind of like [SPEAKER_02]: We could give ourselves that to make our lives easier, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: We're always asking, how can I do this more efficiently, rather than like, how could I do this in a way that actually leaves me feeling good?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: If present day you could speak to on Friday one you, what would you say to her?

[SPEAKER_01]: Stop doing so much.

[SPEAKER_01]: Stop saying yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: Do you think she'd hear that?

[SPEAKER_02]: Do you think she would have heard you saying that?

[SPEAKER_01]: I think she would be open to it, but then would say, I don't know how.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think the how was the unfolding in front of her eye.

[SPEAKER_02]: So you feel like the how the programs laid out gave you the how step by step.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, but not in a way that I expected because I thought I'd get my checklist and follow my project plan and we'd just be good.

[SPEAKER_01]: We would have to do any kind of introspection or work.

[SPEAKER_01]: There would be no circling back to anything.

[SPEAKER_01]: It'd just be linear done, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that's very Western brain thinking.

[SPEAKER_02]: Turns out I was using my Chinese medicine brain when I put together on a ride and so everything's very circular and we come back to things, it's all based in Indian young folks, that's why we talk about it a lot right and and burnout being about a lack of Indian efficiency and this excess of young and that the imbalance that comes from it so I absolutely put this program together.

[SPEAKER_02]: using the wisdom of Chinese medicine and experience like I ran several groups through the program before you did it Emily and each time I honed it, I tweaked the work sheets, the handouts, I changed the order of things because I really wanted it to flow because that's what I was aiming for us to do is feel the flow.

[SPEAKER_02]: how much easier life is like those round corners right when energy is flowing in your home it feels better when energy is flowing in your body it just feels better more ease more peace as you describe before and we don't move in lines like our growth isn't linear.

[SPEAKER_02]: Our growth is cyclical.

[SPEAKER_02]: We expand, we grow, and then we have to contract and kind of find safety again, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: We step out of our comfort zone, and then we need to come back to our old comforts and safety, and that's the reality of a healing process and a growth process.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm so glad that it felt that way to you.

[SPEAKER_02]: That just makes me proud, because I'm like, okay, I did it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it did feel that way to me.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I did feel my energy or life force come back online and then grow and get stoked and it felt like internal fire was back.

[SPEAKER_01]: One of the parts of the program that I thought would be a total waste of time that ended up being one of my favorite parts were the implementation stations.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if you wanted to explain those.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, they were there as an intentional sort of like, placed for us to percolate on what we were doing, ask questions, try things out, get clarification.

[SPEAKER_02]: Just give you time to practice the new module content.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so what was your experience of those that made it surprisingly beneficial instead of a waste of an hour?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I thought it was like, oh, this is so we don't have new content to go over.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, every week must have purpose and I ended up thinking that the conversations that we had as a group, which by the way, I love a group program because it's hearing from others experiences is really, really useful to accelerate the learning.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I felt like the conversations that we had [SPEAKER_01]: an interesting and useful and applicable that it really did help you integrate the content from the previous weeks that we were going through.

[SPEAKER_02]: Love it.

[SPEAKER_02]: That was exactly my intention.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm glad it ended up that way.

[SPEAKER_02]: And in your group, [SPEAKER_02]: This was so fun, Fredme, the group Emily was in.

[SPEAKER_02]: So normally we just do groups of five.

[SPEAKER_02]: I like five, I make six, and it's just everybody fits on the Zoom page, and it feels like a nice little number.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, [SPEAKER_02]: Emily's group was a group of eight because everyone came in with a flying force, and I could not, and Emily came in late, but it was clear that she needed to be in there.

[SPEAKER_02]: So we ended up with group of eight, nine, including me, and I was like, okay, let's see how this goes.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it was so evident that the eight of you that came together were meant to be together, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: Like you all had a synergy and like a dynamic that was, [SPEAKER_02]: What even is the word?

[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, kind of had a force of its own.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I was there to hold space for it.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I, it was very dynamic.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it was very fun to hold space and challenging at times, because you all brought things to the space that I hadn't ever processed before.

[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, it was wonderful.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I, [SPEAKER_01]: was so blown away by the women that was all women in the group.

[SPEAKER_01]: And just really honored to be a part of their journey and and witness them powerful women doing pretty incredible things in the world.

[SPEAKER_01]: And when I first joined the group, I felt really, really sad.

[SPEAKER_01]: that everybody was sobering down.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think a lot of the women in the group were at the ashes level.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it made me really sad to think about people who have so much to give that weren't able to do that.

[SPEAKER_01]: They weren't living aligned lives, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: And so I'm really grateful that you and Kate [SPEAKER_01]: bringing people back and realign their lives in a way that works for them.

[SPEAKER_01]: Cause there's some really cool women.

[SPEAKER_02]: I agree.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's why we focus on mission driven people because when you lose your joy and your spirit and your, kind of the guiding light of your heart, [SPEAKER_02]: you don't feel called to your mission or and don't, you're just like, what's the point, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: That that cynicism and that sort of apathy, like what's the point?

[SPEAKER_02]: There is a point and I really am honored to bring people back to their alignment with their center, their heart, their soul, their spirit, their purpose, their mission because I needed that and that was important for me too.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, thank you for saying that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we talked a lot about heart in that group, too.

[SPEAKER_01]: We did a big theme.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was a through way, it, the group.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was a big deal for everyone that was going through it at the time and it usually is for burnt out folks because that, as I've, I think said before, but maybe not in this way is that I really feel like we call it burn out because your flame gets extinguished, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: It's sort of like the fire of your, [SPEAKER_02]: passion and purpose, and guiding light.

[SPEAKER_02]: And so when it's not there, we don't know what to do.

[SPEAKER_02]: We need it to be stoked again from that little ember.

[SPEAKER_02]: So that it not only lights us up from the inside, but also shows us where to go.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's how I felt Sarah going back to her.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think here for a question.

[SPEAKER_01]: I felt like what is the point?

[SPEAKER_01]: There's no point in being here.

[SPEAKER_01]: life, but just like in my job and all the various aspects of my life.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so, yeah, thank you, described perfectly how I felt.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, in jumping back to your job, it was interesting, because you right, you said you wanted to point fingers outward and blame everyone.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then what you realize when you were like, oh, it's me is also like, like [SPEAKER_02]: He also then pivoted from there and thought, once we did the core values, you were like, oh, it's not me, I'm not broken.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not the problem.

[SPEAKER_02]: The problem is, what did you learn?

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I think, [SPEAKER_01]: part of the problem is the corporate culture, the hustle of culture, the Western structure, the fierce, independent, like rugged individualism as a Western value, I think, is a problem.

[SPEAKER_01]: So yes, I work within the context of a corporate culture, but the community within my company was very giving and helpful.

[SPEAKER_01]: bosses, peers, team members, we're messaging.

[SPEAKER_01]: We want to help, let us help.

[SPEAKER_01]: You don't need to do that kind of stuff.

[SPEAKER_01]: I also, in the core values exploration, started to just define myself outside of my job.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think I'm very attached to defining myself through my job because it's a very easy way [SPEAKER_01]: and success, and a lot of my core values really don't have anything to do with that.

[SPEAKER_01]: I, one of my core values is nature, and my job doesn't really have anything to do with nature.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's just for me.

[SPEAKER_01]: So one of the things that I do for myself to align with my core value is make sure that I go outside every single day.

[SPEAKER_01]: I have gardens that I've started attending, [SPEAKER_01]: And we live by the beach now, so I go to the beach and dig my feet into the sand and just enjoy nature for nature and also recognizing I'm a part of nature, honoring those cycles and rhythms of nature.

[SPEAKER_02]: That makes me so happy.

[SPEAKER_02]: So so happy.

[SPEAKER_02]: Coming back to what you said like your goal is to help maybe even one person.

[SPEAKER_02]: realize they're burnt out enough.

[SPEAKER_02]: If they're here and they're listening, they're burnt out enough to get help now.

[SPEAKER_02]: Why is that so important to you?

[SPEAKER_02]: Like for example, like you said, you were watching these women and it felt so sad to watch the women in your group who were burnt to a pile of ashes level because you realize at that point, you weren't as burnt out as them and you weren't all the way burnt out to a pile of ashes.

[SPEAKER_02]: that ended up to be a benefit to you.

[SPEAKER_02]: Do you want to say more about that?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think there's, I'm not exactly sure what it is, but I think with high achieving individuals, there's a sense of maybe it's a morality aspect and asking for help.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like you have to be so far down at like crisis names, ask for help, [SPEAKER_01]: to ask for help.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I can tell from my team members, I have 60 people, 60 plus people, maybe 80 on my team.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't interact with all of them closely, but when I do interact with people, it's pretty obvious to tell who's burning out or who's trending down that way.

[SPEAKER_01]: And [SPEAKER_01]: It just takes you so far off of your path, off of what you're able to do, and not just from a production standpoint, but just a living standpoint, like you just become disconnected from everything.

[SPEAKER_01]: And when you let yourself get so far burned out, it takes a lot to get back to that baseline state.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's a lot of work to recover from burnout and it takes a long time.

[SPEAKER_01]: the 18 months, I think is what I remember Kate quoting as typical at 12 to 18 months.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, if you get help.

[SPEAKER_02]: 12 to 18 months with hell three to five years with that would help.

[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's a long time to be living in a state that isn't hot, a great physical, mental, emotional, spiritual place to be.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so [SPEAKER_01]: I don't want people to get all the way to that point where they have to leave their job, where they have to, you know, they can't get out of bed, just being in that state's not worth it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, join the program now or join a different program, find the resources, get some get a therapist or whatever you have to do to get, do all of it, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's really important, like why let yourself get to that point.

[SPEAKER_01]: That was a really random link response, but I just feel this like if I check in with my body, I can feel that energy coming up from my solar plexus in my heart and it just, it feels like so powerful.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like don't let your heart go offline and don't let that internal fire die on you.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's not worth it.

[SPEAKER_01]: You are worthy of asking for help of getting help receiving help.

[SPEAKER_02]: Emily, thank you for that clarity that's now come through, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: You weren't clear on that before you started on Friday, but you learned that throughout the program.

[SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, I so glad I'm so glad that now is like you feel it in your body, you feel it in your solar plexus in your heart, like your passion about that message and you're sharing it at work.

[SPEAKER_02]: And.

[SPEAKER_02]: aiming to change your work culture so that it isn't a burnout culture anymore in the ways that you can control, which is all that we ask, not that people change, but just do what's within your control, feel empowered in your own life, take care of yourself in the ways that you can and delegate and ask for help when something is out of your control or you can't, you don't have the capacity for it and all of that is, [SPEAKER_02]: that all of that doesn't change your worth and your value is a human.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right, that's really what it comes down who is, we feel like we can't ask for help because it means we failed.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but that's not true.

[SPEAKER_02]: You know that now.

[SPEAKER_01]: I do.

[SPEAKER_01]: I really believe it, too.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think I love it.

[SPEAKER_01]: And to your point about changing a culture, I am not actively crusading in my company [SPEAKER_01]: change the culture and change corporate culture and anything like that I'm only doing small things that I can control that I feel like I can do but I already know it's working because I get feedback from my managers all the time things like you're so clear on what's a priority and what's not thank you for that and I don't think I would.

[SPEAKER_01]: be there without doing unfried.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I know the butterfly effects, the ripple effect is happening.

[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe not as big and grand as something you'd love to see on social media, but it is working.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's why we say small things, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: Even just you breaking up the culture by saying, let's take three minutes of this meeting to go get some water, like, to, I say, water in water out, go pee, get some water, like get what you need so that we can actually have a productive meeting right now.

[SPEAKER_02]: That is huge, because everyone in that meeting just got permission to take care of themselves and they might next time they run a meeting, do that too, and just that thing alone.

[SPEAKER_02]: could change a lot of work cultures or overall hustle culture.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I love that idea.

[SPEAKER_02]: I love that you're doing that.

[SPEAKER_02]: Is there anything else that you want to say about unfried or about my facilitation of unfried?

[SPEAKER_02]: That would maybe encourage some folks to feel like it was a worthwhile investment for themselves, time, energy, and money to do.

[SPEAKER_02]: One of the, it's time for them.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that I already talked a little bit about the power of being in a group setting and the resources that were provided in the program were so thorough and helpful to go through and you walk us through all of the resources so that we didn't try to figure it out on our own, which was really nice.

[SPEAKER_01]: and having access to the call recordings was really useful because I would go back and listen to them taking a walk with my dogs and something else would land for me and in particular your facilitation your I don't like I always heard the term holding space but I don't think I really understood it until I was in the program with you because you [SPEAKER_01]: Created, it felt like almost like a circle, even though we were all in Zoom.

[SPEAKER_01]: And everybody was welcome in the circle and everybody had a voice and a presence.

[SPEAKER_01]: And you have this way of just listening to people and then reflecting back with a really interesting question that gets right to the root of the issue.

[SPEAKER_01]: somebody would be saying whatever, whatever, whatever, but then you'd be like, and what have you thought about this?

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that sometimes your questions were challenging to people.

[SPEAKER_01]: Myself included, like, the thing they know they need to hear, but they don't want to hear it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Not in a negative way, but in, like, a real change-making way.

[SPEAKER_02]: Great.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Folks, that's what I'm good at.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's why I do what I do and I put up with all of the other crap that comes along with being an entrepreneur, including marketing and admin and all these things.

[SPEAKER_02]: If you've ever worked with me, you know that I'm not good at sharing my screen.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I'm good at asking the right question to get you through whatever tough time you're having.

[SPEAKER_01]: which is why we signed up because I didn't sign up to watch me.

[SPEAKER_01]: Share your screen.

[SPEAKER_01]: Thank God.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, thank you for that reflection.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's, I, you're letting me know that my, [SPEAKER_02]: clarity for what I'm aiming to provide and why is coming through clearly like the message received not only by you but like I just ended it on fried group today and yesterday and so I'm you know we did our closing calls and testimonial forms.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm making this about me for a second because it really means a lot to me when people share their experience and reflect back to me what happened because it, it just feels really good to have my intention manifest, especially with my intention is to help people come back to life, it just, it means a lot to me and I know it will mean a lot to, of course, each of you, but in the world, right, it's going to help us.

[SPEAKER_02]: with our mission to end burnout culture.

[SPEAKER_02]: Because I think that's important for all of humanity in the natural world and us being a part of the natural world.

[SPEAKER_02]: So, just thank you.

[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for taking the time to reflect and share and to validate yourself in your own experience, but also to hopefully open the door to any of you, fried fam, who hear this and go, [SPEAKER_02]: Wow, I didn't know any of that was possible, or that's what was happening and on Friday.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm sorry if you didn't get that message before, because like I said, I'm bad at marketing.

[SPEAKER_01]: I said, well, I mean, you had eight people in my rounds, so you can't figure that out.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, that's true.

[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you, thank you.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, so thank you for sharing your experience.

[SPEAKER_02]: And your passion.

[SPEAKER_02]: and not just for yourself but also for the other people who like, hey, who might be able to help themselves when they're not all the way burnt out yet, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: They might be able to get some help before their pile of ashes so that it doesn't take as long to come back, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: Because the deeper your whole of depletion, the longer it takes to fill.

[SPEAKER_02]: So if people are already noticing and remember the signs of burnout, exhaustion, cynicism, [SPEAKER_02]: And, like low productivity or feeling like what you do doesn't matter, and if you're feeling any of those things, you're burnt out enough to get help, whether it's on Friday or one on one coaching or coming to our office hours or getting therapy or going to the naturopat, whatever you feel are called to do, get help in whatever way you can now so that your burnout recovery is much shorter.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_01]: Here here, I feel I support that message.

[SPEAKER_01]: And thank you to you and Kate for doing the podcast and the Facebook group and the office hours and the emails and the marketing and all the things because you are normalizing the conversation around burnout and making it okay for people to get help and thank you for helping me.

[SPEAKER_02]: You're so welcome.

[SPEAKER_02]: You're so welcome.

[SPEAKER_02]: All right, Emily, thank you so much for being here today.

[SPEAKER_02]: And fried fam, thank you for listening all the way to the end of Emily's story.

[SPEAKER_02]: Success story.

[SPEAKER_02]: Her reclamation of her self story, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: This isn't a redemption story.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's a reclamation story.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if you can, oh, if you're on the podcast, you're not seeing this, but if you're watching this on Instagram or somewhere where there's a video, can you see the sparkle in her eyes?

[SPEAKER_02]: Her eyes are sparkling right now.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I tell everyone at the beginning of one Friday that my intention for you is to, for you to get your sparkle back.

[SPEAKER_02]: And Emily has her sparkle back.

[SPEAKER_02]: So, good job us, we did it.

[SPEAKER_02]: All right, forever.

[SPEAKER_02]: Until next time, take care of yourself and ask for help.

[SPEAKER_02]: Bye.