Here's a question that everyone's thinking about, but nobody wants to answer honestly.

How often are you actually having sex?

Here's what nobody tells you.

You've been asking the completely wrong question.

There's this number floating around, you know the one.

Society's little benchmark for a healthy relationship?

Today, we're going to destroy that myth.

But more than that, we're going to reveal something about desire that will completely change how you think about sex in your relationship.

We're going to talk about why 80% of women can't orgasm the way we've been told they should.

And the one thing you can start building today that will transform your sex life without adding pressure.

If you've ever felt broken, out of sync with your partner, or wondered why the passion faded, this one's for you.

Let's get real about what actually matters.

[Music] Well, folks, let's talk about this frequency myth.

Yeah, we get stuck comparing ourselves to something that we've heard.

There's this cultural pressure where society tells us that there's this normal number that we should adhere to for the number of times that we should have sex in a week, in a month, in a year, etc.

Otherwise, you're just broken.

Right.

And there's that beginning of relationship number.

And then there's like, once you're married, there's the number changes.

There's all these numbers that they keep throwing around.

So we have to fit this box.

Right.

So the pervasive three times a week standard and where this number came from, we're going to launch into that.

And then why comparing yourselves to others kills your sex life.

The truth bomb about all of this is there's no magic number or yardstick.

Right.

Quality over quantity every single time.

What the research actually shows about satisfaction versus frequency is that satisfaction wins.

Right.

The reality check for some of the statistics are that on the average for UK, because these stats came from the UK, the average is three times a month.

But over 40% of the women want more than that.

This isn't a statistic that says you have to have it three times a month.

And it's certainly not worldwide.

It is a small statistic in one area.

This is just what people reported that they had.

Right.

And then 52% of the women actually want better sex.

So the key insight really is people just want improvement, not just more.

Yeah.

We hear this phrase all the time.

It's quality over quantity.

Heck, we're hearing it about social media all the time.

But it applies to sex too.

Like the quality of the sex is way more important than the quantity of the sex, like how often you're having it.

Right.

I mean, it isn't really rocket science when you break it down to, let's just say you're a compulsive shopper, right?

Right.

You're shopping for the best deal and getting the cheapest things.

Well, you're getting low quality.

Maybe you've got a budget and you're just buying low quality things, maybe on one of those apps that ship in from overseas.

I have done that plenty of times.

I spend $5 for a three set piece of lingerie and I buy, oh gosh, I've been known to buy like 20 items at a time for like 50 bucks.

Yeah.

Yeah.

This is the cruise shopping trip, the pre-cruise shopping trip.

Yeah.

And they all come in and they're all, even though you've done the measurements and you think the size is going to fit you, they never do.

They're sized strangely and they fit most people or I don't even know if they fit most people.

One size fits some.

One size fits some.

And so out of 20 items, you go, yeah, I may have gotten one or two and you're like, okay, $25 each.

You toss the rest or you donate them because there's no way you can return it.

It costs too much to return it.

Right.

So there's that you're not getting quality.

It just be better.

And honestly, it would have been a better use of my time because you know how long it took me to find those and check the measurements.

Right.

And find the right size.

And it did.

Right.

It did.

Right.

It would have been better just to go to a quality lingerie shop, try it on, get the one, spend 80 bucks for a hundred dollars on it.

Right.

And have it.

And get one amazing piece of lingerie.

Yes.

That fits my body.

That is just stellar and it's quality and it'll last for years.

Right.

So why are we having this?

What's really getting in the way?

Yeah.

Let us know.

Tell us, Ed.

Yeah.

So we'll just get to it.

Modern life is really killing intimacy and people are having less sex than in the past two decades because we are as a whole overwhelmed, stressed, constantly distracted.

What?

Really?

Squirrel.

Social media, jobs, phones, television, like everything is competing for our attention.

And actually I think this has traditionally been a statistic and that's why married couples or couples with kids have less sex because they got just too much stuff going on.

Oh yeah.

And what it really boils down to is you have no mental space left.

Your, your, your give up literally your give a fuck meter is depleted.

There's, there's nothing left.

Yeah.

You've got no mental capacity, physical capacity for.

Any desire to merge.

Yeah.

Just got sucked out of you by life.

Yeah.

And the noise.

Yes.

I, I understand this 100%.

So then you've got these mental blocks, right?

Mental distractions equals less arousal, which equals less desire.

You've got day to day worries and stress.

It impacts your body's response because stress hormones.

Not good.

Yeah.

Yeah.

The cortisol, right?

Yeah.

Not good for body responses.

And then for men.

Oh God.

Performance anxiety.

Yeah.

We've, we've done a whole episode on this.

It happens to even the, the most virile of men and you get into a playroom, you get into a situation and it, it, my doing it right.

Does she feel right?

Am I paying attention to my partner or my wife or, you know, is something going on in the background?

You know, someone's having a conversation.

I'm distracted.

Is she having a good time?

Is she feeling pleasure?

Right.

All of this stuff.

Am I going to be able to release and how, you know, is that expected of me?

Oh my gosh.

You get into this vicious cycle where you can't get out of your head.

And we've talked about this before where it just gets worse because you can't, you end up in this loop where you're constantly thinking about it and, and trying to not think about it makes you think about it.

Because you're thinking about not thinking about it.

Right.

It's evil.

And there's one thing you can't think about and you can't stop now.

Yeah.

And, and then this one for us living, living together and we, we live together 24 seven, essentially post COVID when our jobs went remote full time.

We are together 24 seven.

Our office is the same room.

Right.

We sit back to back to each other.

And when we're not working, we're in this room having conversations.

And when we're not here, we're out doing things to get food, to get whatever.

So yeah, we, we don't get a break from each other.

We don't get that kind of like, Oh, it's so good to see you again.

I've missed you.

Right.

Because I see you all the time.

Yeah.

We have friends that have spouses that have just crazy travel schedules and they get to separate and come back together and separate and come back together.

And it's, that's way different from for us.

Right.

And so proximity reduces that novelty over time.

Right.

And it also has that loss of sexual currency.

Yeah.

Which you get with 30 texts and compliments and lounging around, you know, naked or bone sex.

If you're in a hotel because you're traveling, right.

You, you, you don't have that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's much, it's silly to sit on opposite ends of the couch and text each other, you know, sexy messages.

It just, it just doesn't have the same ring to it.

And, you know, we're, we're working.

And so all I have to do is turn around and see you.

And so you just don't think about that kind of stuff.

And, you know, I'll get up and walk past you and give you a little kiss on the head and things like that.

Oh, yes.

We're very good at that.

I like, I like touching you, but it's still not quite the same as having that, that separation to kind of create a little bit of longing.

Right.

And yeah, we've seen it kind of affect our sex life and our relationship.

Yeah.

The, and then those relationship roles, they, they tend to become too defined.

Right.

Who's the instigator?

Who's the person who's whatever asking for.

Right.

And we're going to get into that too.

Which is desire doesn't work how you think it does, which was mind blowing to me.

Right.

So the game changing reframe based on this, you know, we're all operating on this old model that or the traditional view that we wait to feel like it.

Right.

And then act on it.

And this is, you know, a model that stems all the way back to the 1950s.

Sure.

And the media portrays that there's lust and passion and, and spontaneity, right?

Look at your, those perfume ads are the best, one of the best ones for that.

Right.

I mean, they've even made at food ads that are, that are, Oh yeah.

The new Cheez-Its one talks about the, they're reading the bodice ripper in a study group and they're like, Oh, I desire you, Mr.

Cheezy.

I know.

I looked at you across the couch and I went, they just sexified Cheez-Its.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Oh my God.

What is happening?

Yeah.

So there's always this kind of traditional portrayal of desire and how it works.

And then did you just, you know, when you see somebody from across the room, you just feel that desire.

Well, sometimes you don't, right?

Like sometimes you're not in the mood for it.

Yeah.

And, and, and it's a problem, especially for women, because it, it just sets up a failure in long-term relationships, especially when a woman is conditioned that this is how it's supposed to happen.

This is the model that I need to follow.

These are the roles that people fall into.

And so when I get into a relationship, this is the formula.

Yeah.

And, and I'll go so far as to say, I suspect that's why a lot of monogamous relationships actually fail.

It's because I just don't feel passionate about that person anymore.

And you know, there just isn't that spark.

Right.

And I think that is this fundamental misunderstanding of how you keep the spark alive and how you keep a relationship in that kind of sense of spontaneity and, and desire.

Right.

There are two types of desire, the spontaneous desire and then the responsive desire.

So talk about the spontaneous desire.

Yeah.

So this is the one that you see in movies all the time where it's like, you know, you see each other, you run towards each other, you tear each other's clothes off and there's this novelty to it, you know, and you really get this kind of instantaneous like love or lust at first sight.

Now, not that that doesn't happen, but that's, that's how it's portrayed.

And I think that that's the one that everybody kind of equates with desire, where you have to have, you have to like instantly get aroused because you see this person.

And it's really common in new relationships, especially with men, because of the whole testosterone and androgens thing you've got, we've got chemicals running through us that go"mm, hot woman, me see." And, you know, we run across the room, we attack her because we're just horned up.

Right.

But when you see someone on a regular basis, you, you really do need that novelty in, in, in the relationship to, to add a little, to add that spark back.

Right.

And this is where a lot of people have found EMM, right.

And hanging out in open-minded communities to spark that desire in their own relationship, whether it be just watching, right.

Right.

Because there's, what we're calling that, defining those people the other day, vanilla.

Oh, dirty vanilla.

Dirty vanilla.

Yeah.

This is a new, a new emerging term where they don't play with other people, but they like being around other people.

We used to call them swing or adjacent, because it's like they're, they're supporters of the community, but they're not in the community.

Right.

Right.

Then there's responsive desire, where the desire emerges out of being sexual.

Right.

So your, your engagement actually triggers the desire, not the other way around.

It's like a fake it till you make it kind of thing.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And that's the, this sense of touching frequently and building up that sexual currency that you were talking about before.

And you can kind of think of that as like, every time you, you brush up against your partner or you say something saucy to them, you're, you're adding, you're adding money into this bank, into this desire bank.

And over time it builds up.

And so that you, you kind of have this just general sense of arousal around that person because you're, you're constantly feeding that.

Yes.

That works very well for, for women.

I mean, it does also work well for men, but more so for women.

Right.

Okay.

The other key insight is you don't have to feel like it before you start.

Right.

Which was also shocking to me.

And, but that plays into what you were just saying about the currency, right?

You're, you're, we, we, we know someone who is really good.

They're good friends of ours.

He's very good at taking his wife out on a long day date and extending the whole day is one long date and foreplay session.

Right.

It involves good food and involves shopping.

He's doting on her, taking care of her, teasing her, petting her, dropping little hints in her ear about what's potentially going to be happening that evening.

She doesn't know exactly, but he's got this master plan.

Right.

And, you know, as the day progresses, there's this acceleration of, of anticipation.

And then by the time evening rolls around and it's time to engage together, she's, you know, she's right up there.

Right.

She's, she's ready mentally.

She's in that right spot.

Which is why this concept of, I'm going to wait to do anything with anybody, especially in the swing or circle until the stars align or it just has to feel right.

Honestly, in swinging, if you hear this phrase from another couple, it's never going to happen.

If that's what they tell you, oh, we're very selective or the stars have to align or we just have to, it has to feel right.

The moment has to be right.

Move on.

Right.

Move on.

You're literally playing the lottery.

You're hoping, you're hoping that they're going to just feel the right way at the right time when you happen to be there.

Or you're going to do something to make them feel that way.

And you can't make anyone feel a certain way.

Right.

So unless they're, they're telling you, unless, unless they say, I really like these things.

Words work really well for me.

I like when a man uses a lot of words.

I like when a man touches me.

I like when a man does X, Y, Z.

If they're, if they're actively engaging you and telling you what they like as an individual, yes, then definitely go for it.

But if they're not, and they're just like, oh, you know, when the moon wraps around Saturn and it's 2035, you're like, yeah.

I mean, if you're only there for a weekend or an evening or a week, good luck.

The world is your oyster.

Go find another oyster.

We found that kind of same room and parallel play and kind of that whole puppy pile thing.

Oh, yes.

Being in the playroom worked really well for us because you're kind of, once again, you're surrounding yourself by that sexy environment and you're involved in it.

You're in it.

And so you start to, starts to kind of rub off on you.

I mean, sometimes literally it rubs on you.

Just the mood and the sounds and the sexy vibe, it's right there.

Yes.

Especially for me, especially if it's more of an intimate environment, which could be lighting and the size of the room and the way the room is set up, has a cozy feel to it.

That's what works for me.

Some people don't need that.

I need that cozy feel to it.

Then it really, really does work for me.

Yeah.

And I think a lot of that stems from the studies that we've read where women really need safety.

Yes.

That sense of I'm going to be okay or cared for, and therefore I can relax and have a good time.

Yes, exactly.

Even though I know you're right there and I know there's security outside the door and I know the community is safe.

It's that innate feeling that you're talking about.

Of course, we are not advocating doing something you don't want to do by placing yourself in a situation that makes you really uncomfortable because I will tell you, we have walked into rooms and we've stood there and I go, "You know, I'm just not feeling it.

There's something off about the night and I can't really describe what it is and there's no amount of watching that's going to get me there." Yeah.

And it happens.

Once again, those stars, they're not going to align.

Yes.

Yes.

Arousal non-concordance.

All right.

Okay.

So this is really interesting in a term that's being thrown around and there's two types of that.

Okay.

This is where your desire and your body's response don't always match.

Oh.

Oh.

So type one is where the body shows sign of arousal, but the person actually doesn't feel aroused.

Yes.

So mentally, there's nothing going on, but down below, it's nice and squishy.

Right.

Type two, the body does not show signs of arousal, but the person feels aroused.

Right.

Mentally, I'm there and my body's like, "Doop." Yeah.

Whatever.

Yeah.

So your mind and your body are out of sync with each other.

Yeah.

You could classify the ED or...

Yes.

As being, "I'm there.

I really want to be here.

I want to fit in." And it's just not happening because your body is just...

Exactly.

I hadn't thought of it.

That's a very good example.

And then I think that the other one that's pretty typical is women are mentally just...

They're someplace else.

They're checked out, but their body's like, "Hey, what's going on?" Yeah.

Like you said.

Nice and wet, but not really interested in playing.

So yeah.

Yeah.

And I was trying to think of a couple of parties where that has happened.

Sometimes it happens where the initial interaction is, "Yeah, I'm interested." But then by the time you get to the bedroom, something changes or there's a touch that's off or maybe you're going faster at a different pace than I am because I like to approach it a little more slowly.

And that throws me off.

And then I start to...

Then now I'm starting to get in my head, which is kind of like this ED example where...

Yeah.

So my body is still receptive, but now my mind is starting to check out.

And so it gets tricky.

It gets very tricky.

It does.

It gets tricky.

And all of this is completely normal.

Completely normal.

And if you feel this way and you have the presence of mind in the moment, when I say that, that's when I mean you're very aware, you haven't been drinking, you haven't been doing any drugs and you can kind of see outside of all the oxytocin and other hormones that are raging through your body right now to speak up for yourself and go, "I'm done.

I'm going to remove myself out of this situation.

It might be a little awkward for everybody involved, but I'm taking care of myself." Yeah.

And I think this is the key consent conversation that a lot of people have a hard time with, which was, "Oh, we're all in the room." And I just said,"Yes, because I'm a people pleaser and I didn't want to break the mood that everybody was feeling.

And if you're not feeling it, you're not feeling it." And you really should give yourself a break out of that.

And there have been several times where we have gone into that situation and said,"Look, we're really interested.

It has been a long day.

It's pretty late.

We are a little tired and I've had a few drinks.

I'm very interested.

But at some point during this interaction, I might pull the plug.

I might feel like I'm just not there because I am, it's two in the morning.

We were in the sun all day." Yes.

"So please give me some grace if I pull the plug and I need to disengage." And it's a little bit of an insight ahead of time where people go, "Oh, yeah, yeah, no shirt, no problem." Right?

Right.

So you can kind of set them up as to where you're at.

And honestly, if you don't set them up, if you say it in a nice way, people are very understanding.

Even if you don't use a lot of words, people are usually really understanding.

They're not going to bite your head off.

Right.

Or be disappointed and go, "We're going to have to have a rain check on this because it's 2am and it's not working.

Something's not working.

It's not working." Whatever.

Right.

All right.

Tell us how we are...

Build the sexual currency.

Yeah.

So here are some practical strategies that actually work for banking that sexual energy.

Well, let's talk about what sexual currency is first.

So think of it as that charge, that spark that we keep talking about that's very vague and very Hollywood that you feel between you and your partner or you and a potential partner.

And that spark over time declines.

The new sexy smell kind of wears off, if you will.

Right.

You get familiar with things, you get into habits, and maybe you don't have the dishabituation where you have the distance or the separation where you kind of feel that longing or desire.

Right.

So that repetitive day in, day out of the relationship starts to really erode that currency.

And it puts that pressure on the person who's typically been the initiator.

Right.

Which is that role that you've defined in your relationship, which can change, it can switch if you have that conversation.

And that's the hard part too, is you start to feel this decline.

And if you're the initiator, you feel like they're not interested.

So you feel awkward initiating, and they're not initiating because they've never had that role.

Right.

So that's never going to happen.

Right.

And then the other person, the initiator feels rejected.

Right.

I know, it becomes this very sad kind of I know.

So how do you increase this sexual currency, this spark?

How do you get it back?

And this is what you guys have all been waiting for.

This is what we teased at the beginning.

Do things like this.

Kiss more.

Kissing is a huge desire builder.

We talk about it in our episodes.

We've done some kissing episodes.

We even did a seminar at one of our conferences, conferences, one of the Swinger getaways, where we talked about how important and how intimate and how sexy kissing is.

Yeah.

And I think a lot of people don't use that tool well enough, often enough.

Right.

It's so important because you are right in somebody's face and there's all kinds of nerve endings going on and it's not penetrative sex.

Right.

So you're not like jumping too far ahead.

We're all used to it.

And it's, it's kind of sweet too.

So it doesn't have to be like jump on them and stick your tongue down their throat.

It can be very gentle and it warms up very quickly.

So kissing, kissing is very good.

You can schedule physical intimacy.

So not sex, not like we will have sex on Wednesdays because it's business day.

Things like cuddling.

Make time with your significant other to cuddle with them, sit with them, take baths together.

Now we're not huge advocates for bathtubs or watch all the homery model shows and just have a fit every time we see a bathtub.

We're like, nobody ever uses bathtubs.

Well, if you have one, use it for taking baths together because it's kind of fun and intimate.

Or if you have a hot tub, that's also a really good choice.

And this one's talked about a lot, but we'll throw it in here too.

And that's actually set up a date night with your long-term partner, your spouse.

Like make time for yourselves to just go hang out and be together and like the old days, right?

Like kind of rekindle those old date nights.

Yeah, the date night.

I know we had a few date nights in the last two weeks and it was really nice.

We stepped up that frequency because we've just been so stressed out and so busy.

We have two full-time jobs plus this job and another job.

So we really do probably work 60 hours a week.

So we needed a break and it was so nice from her.

I was telling you, like, I'm so enjoying this date.

It was so nice to just get out and play and have fun and have dinner.

And we went to a comedy show.

It was lovely.

And I'm like, we need to do more.

We need to do more.

And part of this, one of the other things we talked about was kind of creating distance.

So go hang out with the guys or go have a girl's night out and create that separation and you'll miss your partner because you've got some distance from them.

So when they come home, you're excited to see them again.

Like that's actually really important.

Yes.

It also gives you kind of a mental break from it.

So it's not just a physical distance thing.

It's you're not in each other's face.

So you're not thinking about each other.

You're remote and you're having to kind of remember.

So it actually triggers a different part of your brain.

And these are some fun ones.

So share a sexual secret between the two of you.

Which, I mean.

I mean, swinging is one of the biggest sexual secrets you can have.

And the secret itself was, I mean, so exciting.

It was terrifying and exciting all at the same time.

And I'm trying to remember when the novelty of the secret wore off is probably when we came out.

Yeah, probably.

But there's other sexual secrets that you can have too.

We were talking about kind of breaking routine.

Think about role playing.

Think about things like that.

So, you know, your partner's the pizza delivery guy, the naughty secretary, the whatever.

And those things kind of create this memory, this trigger for things that are different.

Yes.

And of course, do things that make you feel desired.

So do things that make you feel sexy and enjoy each other's space and your bodies and things like that.

So I don't know, maybe do like a nude cooking thing or.

Yeah.

There's some lingerie Friday or something fun.

You would cook naked with nothing but an apron sometimes.

Yes.

And I really did like that.

Come out of the kitchen.

There's just the naked butt right there.

Yeah, it's fun.

I come around the corner.

Oh, surprise.

Surprise.

Hello, bud.

I know that was really fun.

Dinner was a little late on those times, but, you know, it was worth it.

It was.

It was absolutely worth it.

We didn't burn the meal.

Right.

So speaking of don't like don't burn the meal, don't schedule sex itself.

It creates a lot of pressure because you now have a goal and it's goal oriented, which means that you're probably not going to arrive at that goal if you will.

Things don't work if you put a lot of pressure on yourself.

Yeah.

And most things that are scheduled are picking up the kids and, you know, I know going to work and clocking in or clocking out, you know, all the day to day stuff that are scheduled.

That's the last thing you want to do.

And it's funny because they always used to say, you just got to go back.

But now the advice is don't.

Yeah.

It's terrible advice.

We talked about it earlier.

So scheduled things like intimacy and cuddling and things like that, kind of the precursors because there's no pressure with cuddling, you know, there's that's easy.

And then here's the other thing.

And we talked about it before, but it's wait to feel it.

So if you wait, it's never going to happen.

Right.

So don't wait.

So don't wait.

And try not to fall into these predictable initiation patterns.

So, and this is going to be hard.

This is probably the hardest one of the list.

And that's try and break up who is the initiator for sex and who isn't.

Right.

We watched Kaitlyn V's show.

Yes.

I don't know what it's called now.

It's been a while.

And there was one of the partners who always initiated sex.

And the woman in that relationship always felt like it was being kind of put upon her.

Yeah.

She had to say yes, because he was initiating and therefore she had to say, so there was always this pressure because of this role dynamic that they had.

And when they reversed it, it was this sense of when's it going to happen.

There's the sense of anticipation.

There's this sense of, I don't know what to expect.

I don't know when it's, when is it going to sneak up and attack me kind of a thing.

Yes.

So there's this anticipation for it.

Yes.

Which builds arousal, which is super good.

They're super good.

Super good.

There was another couple in that same series that Kaitlyn V did where she, the woman was the initiator and she challenged the man to be the initiator.

And it was very awkward for him.

And so she assigned him, her advice was to, to step into a role.

Right.

And so to dress differently and just to kind of help get that feeling of stepping into a role.

And when he did and he dressed in a suit, something he normally doesn't wear, he found that was very empowering.

Right.

And most people have had this experience where you try on a different piece of clothing and you go, wow, I feel so sexy or I feel so powerful.

I feel so alive or tall.

And he almost became a different person, which was exciting for the wife because she's like, who is this man?

Right.

You've broken that routine.

You broke, broken that traditional role.

And his was almost a form of role playing, which, which did kind of, it made him feel sexy.

And she was intrigued because it broke that routine.

Yeah.

It was, it was pretty, it was hot.

It was very, it was very hot.

So the initiation factor, so this is who, who's going to say, Hey, you want to have sex?

It's a form of communication.

And you, we have this problem.

We get typecast into this predictable, I'm the initiator and you're the receiver.

And then you do end up in this, this very awkward situation of, I don't, I don't feel like the time is right.

I feel, I feel bad asking because you've had a hard week and I don't want to put that pressure on you.

And both partners need to feel desired in their own way.

And so there's this need to kind of understand what that sexual language is, that communication between the two people.

And it's interesting.

You say men don't always want direct initiation either.

And I agree with that to a certain extent.

Although I do, do kind of like an assertive woman.

Yes.

Not aggressive, like, right.

But, but like feeling desired is very sexy.

Yeah.

And, but, but it can also be a lot more subtle too.

So like you coming up and giving me the kisses instead and the cuddling and all that, that gets my juices going as well.

So it doesn't have to be so overt.

It can be a little subtle.

What actually matters.

Yep.

This is where it all comes down.

Quality, communication, and flexibility.

Sexual satisfaction does not equal frequency.

Right.

And the average sexual engagement may surprise you is 18 minutes.

Oh, wait, it's not three hours of like just hot, passionate, you know, whatever.

No.

And it's not three minutes.

Right.

But I think that's pretty reasonable.

18 minutes is pretty good.

Yeah.

I mean, yeah, I thought, okay.

Yeah, that's pretty good.

Relationship satisfaction and desire maintenance improve when you can talk about sex.

Yeah.

And I think that that's really key when we first started the lifestyle and actually had to talk about sex.

Yes.

Like, because we had to talk about mechanically, what was going to happen when we went to different places and what everybody's rules were and boundaries.

Yeah.

We actually started having conversations about sex, what we wanted to do, what we didn't like, what we more of this, less of that.

Yes.

Yes.

I loved those conversations.

Those were some really good conversations.

We should have more of those.

We still do, but not to the level that we did, because we've figured a lot out in 10 plus years, 11, 12 years.

Right.

And most people do find it difficult to discuss sex with their partner.

I remember those early conversations were pretty awkward.

Yeah.

Some of them were.

There were certain desires that I had or certain concepts that I had a hard time communicating because I thought you would leave me for them.

Right.

Having sex with other people.

Yeah.

Oh my God.

Yeah.

And sometimes we've heard from other friends who are in the community say that they've had conversations with their spouse that they're not acting on.

For example, like one of our friends said, he could easily be polyamorous.

Right.

But he knows his wife isn't, but he thought that was important to tell her.

Yeah.

And knowing her as well as he does, he felt safe.

Right.

Enough that she wasn't going to divorce him and leave him, but it was still nerve wracking to disclose that.

Yeah.

It's very vulnerable to talk about sex with your partner.

It's one thing to talk about that kind of like spontaneous desirable kinds of sex things like, Oh, I can't wait to do things with you.

Whatever that is.

Yeah.

But it's another to go.

I kind of have a kink that I need to talk to you about.

Yeah.

Or I really want to see this happen or I, who knows, right?

There's any number of things that can come up.

Yeah.

It's fun.

That's what's fun about the lifestyle is that you, you start to crack open in your, your mind and your opportunity.

You start to expand, you start to explore yourself.

You grow sexually as a, as an individual with your partner and you discover each other again.

And you start having these conversations and things you didn't know about them before all of a sudden, you know, and things that they didn't know they liked.

They now like because they've seen something or they had an experience doing something.

There are plenty of times where I had an experience doing something that I didn't think I was going to like.

And after that experience, I liked it, but I didn't know what I didn't know.

Cause I'd never tried it.

Yeah.

And we've noticed this in the lifestyle too, where you didn't even know it was a thing, but then you saw it happen at a party and you were like, Oh my God, I'd never really thought about that particular thing.

So that whole combination of three or four people on a bed, you didn't know it was a thing, but then you see somebody doing it and you're like, I want, I want to try that.

That looks like a lot of fun.

Exactly.

I think all of this kind of boils down this whole section into creating a relationship culture where you can just openly talk about sex.

And I think that's what most people find the lifestyle so appealing is everybody can talk about everything and you're not going to get judged by it.

You, you know, talking about anal sex, whether you like it, you don't like it, orgies or, Oh, I have this kink and everybody's like, Oh, do you now?

Oh, that's fascinating.

I've never tried that.

Or I tried that once and it's not my thing, right?

But there's this general sense that you can talk about anything at any time with anybody and it's okay.

Yes.

I love that about the lifestyle.

There is a gender script problem where PIV, which is penetrative sex, for those who don't know, that's the thing, right?

It is the dominant script and it does suit the man better.

Right.

I will tell you 80% of the women cannot orgasm vaginally.

They only, they need the clitoral stimulation to go hand in hand with that.

Right.

That's huge.

I didn't know that.

Nobody talks about that.

Right.

Nobody talks about that.

And I have been at plenty of parties where there's a woman on the bed and the sounds are just emoting from her like crazy.

Right.

And she sounds and looks like she's having an amazing time and just the orgasms are just.

Just flying around the room.

Flying around the room.

It's hard to be in the room with somebody like that and go, wow, I mean, I didn't really have a good time or I'm not going to have a good time as that.

Yeah.

The bar gets set really, really high for those easily orgasmic women.

Right.

And so then you think, wow, okay, then now there's this expectation that if I'm going to be in this room playing with this other person, that that's, that's what should happen.

Right.

No, as for this thing, truth and usually an orgasm never happens.

Probably, probably 20% of the time.

Yeah.

But part of that too, is that that person doesn't know my buttons.

Maybe I wasn't good at communicating what I wanted that time.

Right.

Maybe I was too tired.

Maybe you're not warmed up enough.

You haven't built up that sexual currency.

I got distracted something, right?

There's all these factors because usually we're exhibitionists.

And so there's a lot of stimulation going on.

Right.

Which is why I really do get why a lot of people like to close the door so they can remove that factor of distraction.

Right.

Women rank PIV as their least preferred form of sex.

Right.

What?

Yeah.

And, and men equally rate that as the most preferred form of sex.

Yes.

So we're, we're already like Venus and Mars on this whole thing.

I know.

Crazy.

I had no idea.

And then the other interesting fact is the initiator experiences higher satisfaction.

And that kind of makes sense because the initiator's thinking about it.

So they're already halfway there.

Yeah.

They've like started it in their head.

Okay.

So they're starting to gear up.

That makes sense.

So the other person's catching up to what's going on.

Right.

But there's probably also something chemically that's going on with the initiator.

If they're starting to think about sex where, you know, hormones or they saw something throughout the day or whatever.

So who knows what that level of arousal is to kind of get to the point of initiation.

Right.

I actually have experienced this with the previous husband where I'm like right there.

And I'm thinking, well, he's a guy, he's going to be ready like that.

And no, he needed, he needed time to decompress from his day.

And I found myself getting frustrated that he wasn't ready like that.

And I had to take a step back and check myself because I, it was, it was a bit unfair.

I, I fell into that stereotype categorization that, well, you have testosterone and you're a dude.

So when I say I'm ready, you're ready.

You just push the button and it just pushed.

Yeah.

So, you know, men aren't that much different than women.

Yes.

You have different hormones, but still.

So this is some fun stuff.

What helps with this initiation imbalance?

Oh, I like this one.

Yes.

I knew you would because there's some funny things in here that really aren't sex related.

No.

As an example, equality in household chores increases sexual satisfaction.

So taking the trash out, doing the dishes, vacuuming for your partner is kind of sexy, even though it's not sexy at all.

It is.

Because that's a thing that they're worrying about or stressing about or thinking about.

It's occupying their brain.

And the fact that someone took that load off of them and that they don't have to think about it, it gives them that sense of security.

It gives them that sense of like, oh, that was very sweet of them, which kicks off all of those oxytocin chemical reactions for being cared for and feeling closer to somebody.

Yes.

And especially if your love language is acts of service, ding, ding, ding.

Right.

Also plays into that as well.

Mindfulness engagement equals more orgasms.

So, you know, getting that brain going, whatever it takes.

Being present in the moment, thinking about the thing that you're doing and not.

Pushing boundaries and sexual experimentation.

About that earlier with role playing kinks.

Going to your first swinger party.

Right.

Even if you're not going to participate, just the act of going is enough to kind of create this.

Ooh, we're doing something naughty.

Yes.

And we know plenty of people too, who have built their own sex room.

Right.

And so that's a project together that is arousing, right?

They plan it, they purchase for it, they build it.

And then that is their safe space that they look forward to going to.

And they're not in that room all the time.

So it's like being on a mini vacation.

Right.

And they go to that room that's under lock and key usually, because they have young children.

It's either in the basement or someone built a, like a shed in their backyard and soundproofed it and everything.

And that's where all their kink stuff is.

Yeah.

It's interesting because we'd talked early in this episode about kind of creating a sexual atmosphere.

Yes.

And I can imagine walking past the sex room all the time, even with the door closed, you know what's in that room.

And it's just this constant reminder of like, Oh, that's where the fun stuff happens.

Yeah.

That I like that.

Okay.

So we're going to tear the podcast room down and we're just going to put a dungeon in here.

Being able to renegotiate your sexual preferences.

And I think this is important because desires change over time, sexual preferences change over time.

We say this all the time.

Sex is fluid.

It doesn't stay the same and things that turned you on last week, maybe not turn you on this week.

So constantly kind of adjusting to how you're feeling and what turns you on.

And the key is too, that sexuality should evolve and flex as you age.

We're not stagnant people.

Nothing is stagnant in nature, maybe a mountain, but even then it's subject to ice and cold and wind and erosion.

So everything changes.

And you also need to be aware of those life stage reality checks, right?

Because some of you have children and not really until your child is about six years old, does your sexuality return back to normal because there's a lot of time that's taken out of your normal routine for sex because you're caring for a young person and they require a lot of energy.

Yeah, a lot of attention.

You're constantly worried about them because they're not self-sufficient yet.

And that's a huge mental load, I think for both partners or at least for one of them, which of course then creates this disparity in terms of responsibility.

So taking on some of that burden and kind of evening the load will also help too.

Yeah.

They're also in school by then.

So that helps too.

A little nooner.

Menopause disrupts things quite a bit, changes that need addressing.

Sexual relationships need to grow and adapt.

The big picture.

Reframing sexual health in relationships.

Getting real about monogamy.

Humans are not biologically designed for monogamy.

It's a social construct.

Right.

And open relationships are on the rise.

I think, what did we read?

Oh my gosh, like seven years ago that it was the Swinger or open relationship community is larger than the LGBTQ plus community.

Right.

As a whole, there's a higher percentage of the population who have either experimented with or experienced ethical non-monogamy in some form or another.

Right.

And the myth of finite love is a lot.

You can love friends, children, a partner without depleting your vessel of love.

Right.

Right.

This isn't a, it's not a cup that you pour out a little and somebody gets a little bit of love and somebody else doesn't.

And this is why polyamory works for a lot of people because it kind of creates its own fountain.

Yeah.

And the different forms of love also don't detract from each other.

So you can have familial love with some people, but then sexual love with others.

And we were worried when we first got into the lifestyle about it kind of taking the special out of our sexual relationship.

We didn't find that it did.

The relationships we had with other play partners were not even close to being the same as our relationship.

And if anything, it gave us great stories to talk about and experiences that we had together, which fueled that spontaneity and the spark in our own relationship.

Exactly.

Moving forward, focus on quality and connection, not counting.

Right.

Talk about where you want your sexual relationship to go.

Build your sexual currency daily.

Echo those shoulds.

Never should on yourself.

And do not compare yourself to others.

I still struggle with this.

The comparison from time to time, I'm much better at it, but it does crop up.

It's inevitable.

It is.

And embrace that responsive desire.

And the last is all of these things will be a big boost to your sexual positivity.

Right.

Right.

So in closing, my love, what are some of the key takeaways?

Well, the most important takeaway is that there's no right frequency.

So stop comparing yourself to something that Cosmopolitan said, where you're supposed to have sex three times a week, you could have one amazing blowout sex party a month.

And if it was so amazing that you could live off of the vapors for that for a whole month, then great.

You are probably having more satisfying sex than someone who's banging one out three days a week.

Right.

Quality beats quantity every time.

Having mediocre fast food sex, if you will, versus a nice four course meal.

Take the four course meal.

Always better.

Don't wait until you feel like it.

Responsive desire is normal.

So build that desire up over time.

And of course, build your sexual currency through non sexual intimacy.

So yeah, taking out the trash actually makes you more attractive to your spouse.

So do it.

Talk about sex like you talk about anything else.

And I think this is the probably I think the most important thing and what helped us the most.

And that is just talk about it.

Talk about it anytime you have a thought about it.

And talking about it is also sexy.

So just the act of opening up, but then talking about sexy things.

It's kind of a turn on.

So your call to action is check out Dr.

Karen Gurney's book, Mind the Gap.

Very, very helpful.

Very informative.

There's also a really good resource I want to point you towards, which is the Gottman Institute for the Gottman Institute, but they have communication tools on that website that are also very good.

They also have courses that you can buy.

And they're an amazing couple.

They're both therapists, stellar human beings, and a wealth of fascinating information.

Yeah.

Yeah.

There's one other that I'll throw in here, which isn't in our notes, but it's Sex and Captivity, which is a great resource.

And they give you homework.

And speaking of homework, because we wouldn't be Swinger University if we didn't give you homework, have one conversation about sex this week with your partner.

Yeah.

And I do want to throw out one more resource that we talked about earlier, which is Caitlin V.

Yeah, she's got some good stuff.

V as in Victor.

She's on YouTube.

I'm not sure where you can find her.

It could have been a Netflix series, especially.

I don't know if it was HBO or Netflix, but yeah.

Or stars.

But find her also very great, amazing sex therapist.

Her content is phenomenal.

Fun stuff.

Final thought, the best sex life isn't about hitting a number.

It's about creating the conditions where desire can emerge and connection and flourish.

Thanks for tuning in.

We appreciate you joining our community.

And for those of you who are alive, thank you very much for joining us at this time.

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