Meredith Oke: Hi, Krishna Avalon.

Welcome to the QVC podcast.

Krishna Avalon: Good morning, Meredith.

Meredith Oke: I'm really excited for this conversation, but before we dive into some of the super interesting things that you do in your work, I'd like to just do a little bit about your story, because you were a very experienced, very successful acupuncturist for many years, and then you made the decision to sort of expand on that and add to it.

Tell us a little bit about that journey.

Krishna Avalon: Yeah, I have been really, really blessed to be able to always have lots of people to treat.

And I think it's because I've always loved what I've done.

And my path to serve and guide others is literally like the.

The only things besides being a mom that I've trusted 1000% until recently.

And so I think that when you are guided by something higher than you and you listen to that, like the, you know, you have a lot of people that want to show up and be in your gifts.

And for me, acupuncture was the very first thing.

For me, that was an absolute yes that I trusted all the way.

And I had been doing it for about 17 years before the pandemic came along.

And I'm still seeing miracles with that work happen every day in my work.

But I was in a place where I just really needed to grow.

And, you know, when you can do something really well with a blindfold on, that's beautiful.

But for me, like, I just, I.

I wanted to know how I could.

How I could serve more or express more or serve better.

And so I started hearing about the subconscious before pandemic hit and became obsessed because I understood that the subconscious is where we create 95 to 97% of our lives, and it's where our programs and behaviors and beliefs and habits are stored.

And so if a person like myself can't make changes in their life or they're hitting a lot of resistance, or they're repeating stories and cycles over and over, like, what is that about?

And so when I started to understand that it's about the contracted, limited and self sabotaging beliefs and habits, I mean, I became obsessed.

And so, like so many people, when the pandemic hit, I needed to pivot.

And so I had heard about Psych K on a podcast, which is the process that I'm trained in.

It's kind of a silly name.

I don't love it, but I do love the process because it's very simple and more conscious on, like, maybe hypnotherapy or other processes that work with the subconscious.

And so I was like, hmm, I wonder if that woman, the one woman in Portland who offered psych K and was teaching.

I was like, oh, I wonder if she's teaching those classes.

And sure enough, she was.

And she taught here in this house.

I ended up buying her house, which is a magical story in itself.

But she taught here for 12 years and lived here for 25.

And I did three of the four trainings here in her house.

And even though I knew 1000% this is what I wanted to train in and work with myself, I needed to offer it to some patients to see what would happen for them.

And without asking for testimonials or feedback.

Like, the response that I was getting was amazing and profound.

And I was like, okay, I can trust this all the way now as, like, how I can serve best in the world.

And so that's part of this story.

Meredith Oke: Yeah, no, I love that.

And I think, you know, it's.

I see this all the time and experience myself.

It's like, you gain mastery and in one area, and that's really great.

And then it's like, oh, okay, but what else.

What else can I do?

So that's just that growth impulse, I think, that so many of us on the.

So many of us have.

So I just want to talk a little bit more about that.

So, so acupuncture is working, you know, and we're talking like, very high level here, but working with the energy system, systems of the body and then psych K, which is psychological kinesiology, that is working with the subconscious.

So how.

How do you explain the subconscious to my.

Krishna Avalon: To the people I'm working with?

I will definitely have people still come to me for acupuncture.

Maybe I've worked with them for a lot of years.

Maybe they're new in my life.

Everyone has stress and trauma, right?

So I'm never really trying to talk somebody into doing this work.

But I have these lenses and perceptions now where I can explain, like, oh, with acupuncture, yeah, let's support your nervous system.

Let's help you sleep.

Let's regulate your hormones.

Let's take care of some of this pain.

If you're finding that you keep getting stuck on the same thing, it's very hard for you to make changes.

You feel triggered over and over again.

The best way I can support you is probably this process that's very simple.

And you can peacefully unattach and go in a new direction in your brain and have a new experience.

This is called neuroplasticity and it can be very simple and very easy, which is why, why I love the process of psych k so much.

And when people hear me say that, that's usually like a light bulb goes off or it might be like a little while later, they're reaching out.

You know, whether it's weeks or a year or a month, and they're like, I think I need to try this or.

And then oftentimes people like this are going to hear me on a podcast and they'll just sign up for 10 sessions.

They don't even really know what I do, but something resonates or intuitively, you know, lights up and they're like, oh, yeah, that's.

That's exactly what I've been wanting to hear, or I needed to hear or make sense to my system in some way so I could talk about this stuff all day long.

It's just kind of like, who's my audience?

Who am I talking to?

I'm not usually just going off for no reason or trying to talk people into being here.

Um, but it's easy for me.

Meredith Oke: Well, at the current moment, your audience is people who would really love to hear about the subconscious.

All the things.

Krishna Avalon: That's awesome.

I just feel like you don't have to spend 20 years in talk therapy and, you know, maybe intellectually understand why things are.

And that's wonderful and beautiful.

But if you've been in talk therapy for, for many years and you're still pissed off, avoidant feeling triggered taking pharmaceuticals, can't really even think about it or process because it's too painful.

That's where this work is so powerful.

Because in a session, two sessions, 10 sessions, like you really going to change your entire life.

Your perceptions are different, People respond to you differently.

The world is a different place because you have these new perceptions that weren't available before and you don't really get there.

And talk therapy, usually you do get to have the support of verbal processing, but you're only working with your conscious mind.

And so a lot of people in regular talk therapy are perpetuating the same stories over and over again.

And I say that not with disrespect.

I mean, talk therapy saves lives.

I'm actually in a master's program to get my therapy degree, not because I want to go through more training and another thing and more student loans.

It's because I believe in this work that I get to do with the subconscious.

And with a model called Internal family Systems, I know that this is the healing the world is asking for.

I know there are people that are not going to want to use ChatGPT as their therapist and want human connection and to be witnessed and held.

And I'm just getting that degree to make this work more available to people because I just, I trust it entirely.

Meredith Oke: Yeah, I was just having that discussion this very morning on Twitter.

Somebody had posted, it was a very like cerebral startup young man.

And he was like, you can just do.

Everyone I talk to says you can just get so much better feedback on AI than you can from a person.

For coaches, for consultants, for all of it.

I just don't know why you'd go to one anymore.

And I was like, well he's like, I mean, they all say the human touch, but what does that really mean?

I'm like, well, human touch is a little bit glib, but in my experience, a lot of times it's not a lack of information that is holding people back.

Like a lot of times people may know exactly what they quote unquote should be doing, or they may know the path they want to walk down.

They're just, for whatever reason, can't get there.

And I don't know, I don't know if AI can help you with that, but that sounds to me like a subconscious, a subconscious anchor holding you in place, even if you're intellectual faculties or conscious mind is aware.

Like, oh, I know I should be, you know, if I want to start my career as a health coach, I know I need to reach out to potential clients, but I'm not doing it.

Or I know I should be going for a walk when I wake up in the morning, but I'm not doing it.

And it's oftentimes we know what to do, but there's a block.

And is that sort of what you're talking about here?

Krishna Avalon: Yeah, 100%.

Because a lot of us consciously do know.

And we might tell ourselves, oh, I deserve a healthy relationship, or oh, I deserve to make money, or oh, I deserve to love my career.

But the subconscious beliefs for most people are pretty contracted.

Like you might believe, oh, I could have like this much love or this much money or this much safety and stability.

But most of us need like expanding on what we believe that we're worthy and deserving of.

And so, so if you are repeating those themes in health, money, career, love, relationships, the amount of joy and presence in your life, it's usually because you don't believe or know in your subconscious that you deserve the best that love and life have to offer.

You deserve your needs to be met, you Deserve to have peace or to have a ton of safety and stability.

I mean, these are things I've had to experience expand within my own system.

And then I get to guide others through from this embodied place because I've gone through it.

But like those are some of the foundational ones.

It's what we believe we're worthy and deserving of in any area of our life.

Meredith Oke: Right.

And so if we have a subconscious belief, even if we're, we have a con, we've made a conscious decision, oh, I'd like to change that belief.

If it's really locked in to the subconscious, it's going to take more work.

Like what's, so what's it going to.

What.

It's going to take more what, what happens?

Krishna Avalon: I know where you're going with this.

You can keep trying to like pep talk yourself or mantra yourself or journal yourself.

And the subconscious does like repetition.

So if you are trying to make change, you can start small, like one little habit a day and just keep changing that one habit and eventually you are going to create that new neural pathway in your mind.

And that's beautiful.

You can listen to self hypnosis, you can use visuals and make like an action board where you have just images of how you want your life to feel and look like.

Because the subconscious does prefer images and sound over like words and surroundings.

Cerebral processing, there are lots of things you can do on your own.

But the work that I get to do is like deep excavating and then you use these other things to reinforce these new neural pathways that you've just created.

And that just makes it so much faster.

So if you, like me, want things simple, direct, let's do it.

Now.

This is, this is the stuff.

I mean and for me, this is the stuff that I had been waiting for.

Meredith Oke: Yeah, it's really interesting because I was listening to you describe it and I think sometimes and for a lot of us, and I know like my audience is into all, you know, all the things, they are very far down the path of healing in many different ways.

But a lot of the times these things kind of get all like smushed together in our minds.

And so I, what I, I find very clarifying about the way you explain it.

I'm like, okay, so the acupuncture is the energy system and then something like emotion code or EFT is like moving sort of moving blockages or moving things that are stuck.

This is kind of my experience of things.

And then talk therapy is like a processing of experiences.

But psych k this kind of psychological kinesiology, this is a reprogramming.

So this is sort of going underneath.

Would you say all of those things?

Krishna Avalon: Yeah.

I love that you understand and you even know what psych K stands for because that's, yeah, very helpful.

A lot of people have never heard of it.

And the only reason they have heard of it maybe is Bruce Lipton, who wrote the Biology of Beliefs and used psych K to finish that book.

And he finds psyche the most helpful thing to work with this subconscious.

And he's definitely one of my teachers.

But yes, psych K is going to help you.

Okay, so there are, there are balances that we do in psych K.

And the balances are meant to get your brain in a whole brain state is what we call it.

Get the left and the right hemispheres of your brain to communicate clearly so that you can peacefully unattach from a stressful or triggering event, go in a new direction, have a new experience, perhaps have a perception that just was not available before because your brain was stuck in this one behavior or belief.

Right.

The other balance we use the a lot is called a goal statement balance.

And that's when we would get to talk about what you want.

And this is where like your best practitioner comes into play because I get to reflectively listen and help you come up with your very best, most favorite words so that you literally create the new program in your subconscious.

And that's where I feel psyche is very special because I haven't learned other process.

I mean, you can with tapping an eft, you end up, you know, you speak to like where you're stuck, where you're limited and then you start kind of like reinforcing with what you want.

You can.

And I love tapping.

I didn't used to like way back when because I'm an acupuncturist.

And I was like, I don't know, this is stupid to me.

But then I had a teacher who resonated kind of explain it and I was like, okay, I love it.

And I not, you know, I'll do it in the bathtub or something.

But psych K, because of the balance that we do, it's just, it is, it's quicker, it's deeper.

And then you can use EFT or other things to reinforce the new neural pathway and it's just going to be so much quicker.

And I love emotion code as well.

I love it.

But that's more for clearing emotions, yours or other people's past, present or future.

And I love it.

I'M like an emotional being very much.

But for me it's like K was like, oh, I can unattach peacefully from these things that have been really like I've been stuck in.

But I also can consider what I want, which is how I love to work with people.

Like, we all know what we don't want, but like, what do you want?

And we get to talk about that.

So sometimes people are like, well, how do you know if you're stuck in your subconscious or if you need subconscious work?

First of all, just look at your life and your relationships.

Where are you stuck feeling like you wish you could grow or you're frustrated?

We do that balance help you peacefully, unattach from a couple things.

And I see that balance as like clearing the slate and making space.

Because that stuff takes up a lot of psychological psychic space.

And then we get to talk about what you want and create these new programs so that it's just so much easier.

Like you don't have all the self doubt or the rigmarole or the stuff in your brain that's keeping you from doing the things that you want to do.

And sometimes psych play is so subtle but very powerful where all of a sudden you're just doing the thing that you haven't been able to do before and you're like, oh my God, I'm doing it.

Meredith Oke: Right.

It just feels, it just kind of flows and feels natural and it's like, oh, wait a minute, like a month ago or yesterday even I went to go do this and it was like, you know, you either have to force yourself or just avoid it altogether or it just doesn't flow and feels like I can, I mean, I probably won't, but I could right now, like tell you the two key areas that are like that for me, that ongoing for my whole life, right.

And other areas have been able to open up and like, oh, like showing up in relationships.

Oh, it's supposed to be like that.

Oh, okay.

But then there's other areas where it's like, all right, I'll just say it.

It's money.

I hate it.

It's gotten better, but it's like incrementally.

And it's always the area where, you know, when I have a call with.

Krishna Avalon: A bookkeeper, her, it's like.

Meredith Oke: You know, I can feel that as you said, that contraction.

Krishna Avalon: And so what we would do is pick an aspect, you know, not all of the money stuff, but we would pick a specific thing around the money.

Like you just named the bookkeeper call and you'd sit there and you focus, focus, focus on that stress, of what it's like to feel contracted with your call with your bookkeeper.

And you'd sit there and like, like, not try to fix it in your mind or imagine what you want.

You're literally sitting there in this thing we call a whole brain posture until this shift happens.

Like, you might start feeling panicky or stressed or, or crying, tension in your body.

And that's all very, very normal.

And then you just keep sitting there and focusing on it.

And then all of a sudden this shift happens.

Whether it's physically, mentally, emotionally.

You might just breathe, this new perception might become available where you're like, oh.

And then all of a sudden you're on the call with your bookkeeper and it's like, not stressful and it's easy.

And you're like, oh, that was actually really easy.

And sometimes the balance takes a minute.

Sometimes people sit there in that whole brain posture for 20 and it doesn't matter.

We muscle test before and after the balance just to make sure there's been a shift.

And then, yeah, yesterday I did do a balance for someone around business with someone, and it was like the stress that they have when they look at their bank account every day, right?

Like logging in, seeing where they're.

So that kind of thing.

I did a balance the other day with a client who, you know, for body stuff, she's just not feeling good in her body, very self conscious, very critical.

And she wrote me the next day and she was like, I was hanging out in my bikini with my husband's family.

I'm like, laying on the ground on the beach blanket sideways.

And like, I just didn't give a hoot, you know what I mean?

I didn't even know who I was.

She's like, she's like, I didn't even know who I was, but I loved it.

I did not care.

And I was like, that's.

Yeah, that's psych.

Meredith Oke: Wow.

And that was just like sort of reprogramming the part of her subconscious that was locked into being, seeing her body negatively and feeling critical of her, of her physical self.

Krishna Avalon: Yeah, we did a stress balance around, like, what it's like for her to look in the mirror naked.

And so she focused on that in that bull brain posture.

And for that one, it looks something like your ankles are crossed and your hands are crossed in this way when we cross the midline of the body like that.

If you've ever done emdr, it's similar.

You're just like getting those left and right hemispheres to communicate together.

But so she was focusing on that.

She had this nausea, she was tight, she had all this like, chatter in her brain.

And then all of a sudden she just felt really relaxed.

And then that's when she knew that we were done.

And we muscle tested to make sure that it had happened, the shift had happened.

And then we also created a goal statement, something along the lines of, I love and accept my body exactly as it is.

She's a mama, she had three babies.

And so the combination, I think we did one other stress balance too.

But like, the combination of that is going to change your life, you know?

Meredith Oke: Yes.

It's so interesting to me, and I've been having this conversation recently that there, you know, and this is a subconscious and a conscious belief, I guess, this idea that it's very, very hard to get over trauma.

It's very, very hard to change these types of things.

And I feel like we're kind of.

There's this idea that we're.

We're locked in.

And then I speak to people like you, and there are so many beautiful modalities and approaches that can clear or in your case, reprogram.

And it's almost, I feel like sometimes it's almost like it's like the culture is encouraging us to hold on to it 100%.

Krishna Avalon: I'm so glad that you brought this up because we all have stress and trauma, and trauma doesn't have to be like hugely dark, horrible.

Shh, Boom.

Like, it can be just long term stress.

Like, most people had some of this during COVID you know, whether it was their business or worried about health or the unknown.

You know, I've been working with a lot of people of fear of the unknown since COVID and we all have that stuff.

And this is exactly what I try to help people understand is it does not have to take 20 years of CBT, cognitive behavioral therapy, which is like, very enduring and like, arduous.

And I mean, I'm not attracted to it.

To have to go through this stuff and like, relive it and have the experience.

No, you can.

Some people's personalities just believe that you have to, like, work really hard to earn healing or freedom or peace.

And that's what I'm here to represent is like, you already deserve that.

And it can be simple and easy.

Like, simple to me is elegant.

It doesn't.

And it's deep.

You don't have to prove that, that you're worthy of having what you want by, like, suffering and So I think that a lot of people who do choose things like cbt, maybe they don't know any different.

But also there are ways that are loving, compassionate, peaceful, gentle, simple and you can get there quicker.

That's what I want.

Meredith Oke: Yes, that sounds really good.

I'm done.

I did enough struggle.

I'm good.

I'm ready for the simple elegant solutions.

Krishna Avalon: Exactly.

Meredith Oke: And so something else that I was thinking about in terms of the subconscious is the collective subconscious and how, you know, my choice to clear my stuff and free my, you know, reprogram myself in a way that I choose that works better for me and leads me to feel how I want to feel in my life.

Am I also impacting other, you know, is that going to ripple out?

Like we're, you know, we talk a lot about the quantum field here as well.

So I would imagine that it feels, and I say selfish and almost in a good way.

Like I think we need to be a bit more focused on our, what we want and need.

But by doing that we're unlocking something that may have a ripple effect.

Krishna Avalon: Yes, you're super speaking my language with all the things, ripple effects, quantum fields, rational trauma.

Like I know that when I am healing and tending my inner team and teenager that still needs to be held, seen.

And this is more like internal family systems, I realize, which is another formal mental health framework.

But when I do that work, and then I'll combine it sometimes with subconscious work, when I do my subconscious work or my inner wounding work, it's totally affecting my daughter, it's affecting her kids if she has them.

It's, you know, I believe as a spiritual being it is going throughout space and time.

Not just current present moment, but definitely current present moment.

What I do inside myself is absolutely affecting every single person as a client or patient that comes through my door.

And I know that that's why people return to me is because I do my work.

I get to be the tuning fork rather than match somebody's dysregulated nervous system.

I get to be like the person people come to, to co regulate with because I can, can hold my own because I've tended that wound.

I've been with my shadow.

I get to guide you from an embodied place.

And like I used to feel so shitty or guilty for like not reading the news and know what's going on all the time.

And I've had to let that go because there's enough going on for my own nervous system in my own world and all the people that I care for to.

Meredith Oke: Yeah, I love that.

Sorry, your audio just did something weird.

I think it's still recording on your side, though, so it should be fine.

Krishna Avalon: Okay.

Meredith Oke: Yeah.

I have a lot of opinions, opinions about how much news we should be watching, which is.

Which is not much.

And I also, speaking like, looking at it from the subconscious, I.

Partly just due to circumstance because we lived overseas, and partly due to personal choice because I've never really liked watching the news, but I would.

I did for many, many years, did not watch any kind of, like, official news channel with the news, Anchorage sitting there.

And then I think, like, during COVID I was watching more clips than I ever had of this kind of thing.

And I.

It just was so clear to me.

The.

Everything about those shows is trying to program you this.

These news anchors speak with such authoritative certainty.

And they're all, like, framed up as they're alone in this chair in this high space with a thing.

And they're like, I know everything that's going on, and this is what it is.

And you're like.

And you just.

Even though I consciously was like, I'm not really into this, I could feel on an energetic level, my body just kind of like, responding to this.

It was programming is what it felt like.

I could feel myself being programmed by all of the different cues that they.

You know, it's on purpose or not.

I don't want to get into that, but that's what the effect felt like to me after having been away from it for so long.

Krishna Avalon: Exactly.

And thankfully, we don't have cable TV in our house.

There are so many things I'd rather do than watch tv.

I mean, we pull some, sometimes watch movies, of course, or binge a show.

But it's shocking what people choose to, like, let seep into their subconscious just with commercials.

I was waiting for some food recently at a restaurant for pickup.

And when you don't have a tv and then you see, yes, you're like, I mean, I made.

Because we were like, re watching Stranger Things last time for like, the fourth time, season one, only not season.

And I was like, crying at stuff.

And she's like, are you okay, mom?

And I'm like, I don't watch stuff, so things affect me.

And I like that I'm not always tuned into, like, the programming and the TV and the things.

I'm not desensitized in that way.

I want to be affected by things.

But back to the restaurant, I was like, oh, okay, I counted right.

Eight commercials, and six of them are pharmaceuticals.

And I was like, oh, My.

And pharmaceuticals with just a list of side effects essentially with people bouncing around being happy thing.

And I was like, this is, this is like what normal people, most people are tuning into.

And I was like, oh my God.

Not that I didn't know that.

But then when you have it just right there to like, wow.

No wonder, no wonder we have these.

Meredith Oke: Yeah, no, it's.

It's crazy.

The, the way, the way.

And then when you understand at a deep level, like the way you're explaining to us right now and you know, from like a quantum biologic perspective, like our.

We're in continuous energetic communication with our environment all of the time.

And so you think like, oh, it's just a commercial commercial, but it's the messaging.

And so if you're not aware of what's going on, like, yeah, it's crazy.

I had that same experience.

We don't watch much tv, but there's certain like sports events that my husband and my son like to watch together.

And they.

Yeah, every ad it was like, take this pill to fix this problem.

Oh, you might get.

You might get a heart attack or have bloody diarrhea, but don't worry about that.

What?

Krishna Avalon: No big deal.

Look how you're bouncing with your family.

Meredith Oke: But it's all.

But it's fine.

You should talk to your doctor.

Talk to your doctor about this.

Talk to your doctor about that.

Okay.

This is so weird.

It's like I feel like I'm sometimes in a science fiction movie where like the, the hero gets dropped into to some alternate future universe and you're like, what's all this?

What's happening?

But it's real, it's art.

This is our timeline.

But I feel like we live in a slightly different version of it.

And then we go visit that one and it's like, what's happening?

Krishna Avalon: You.

You 100% are exactly reality here to like spread light and be light and do that ripply effect thing that you do.

But yeah.

Meredith Oke: So, yeah, I just wanted to swing back to Bruce Lipton for a minute because, yeah, he had a profound influence on me as well.

I remember reading his book when it came out and he was the first person that articulated the idea that our thoughts and our beliefs could affect our biology.

And I read it.

I was pregnant with my first child at the time and maybe got a little obsessed with personal development because I'm like, I don't want to pass on my bad beliefs to the baby.

But his.

Yeah, his perspective I think has really borne out.

And there are.

Now there's now science to show that he was absolutely correct with that.

Krishna Avalon: Exactly.

And you know, he has his own personal story which I think really helps it land for people, is that he was a scientist and he wasn't a spiritual person.

And when he started making these connections by studying cells, right.

And seeing how they would respond to different like environments or things they were doing in the lab, it's like his world got wrong.

Meredith Oke: Right.

Krishna Avalon: Like he realized like there was something more than science and just hearing about his own personal relationships and how he was never really able to find love.

And he was, you know, in a way like kind of, kind of low self worth and kind of clinging as he would describe it.

And then, you know, he met his wife as he started kind of doing his inner work.

And you know, he describes his marriage as heaven on earth.

And you know, it's so beautiful.

And I think that helps it land for people because he has gone through it, he's gone things, he's teaching.

So.

Meredith Oke: Yeah.

And he started by studying the physical and then went out, went way out.

And there, you know, there are now like quantum biology labs sprouting up all over that are showing that, you know, this extra physical communication is for sure real.

And it's interesting that too.

You mentioned the family constellations and family systems.

Totally different family systems.

Oh, are those different?

Okay, sorry, tell me the difference.

Krishna Avalon: No, that's okay.

From what I understand about family constellations is it's like kind of your ancestry even beyond this physical space and time, which is beautiful, but like I have enough to work on right here on planet Earth.

And I love, and that's where I love to hang out.

But as far as like what's going on within my own system right here and now, internal family systems is what I work with and that's a formal mental health framework.

Both psych K&IFS Internal family systems were created by psychologists who were not able to serve their patients in the way that they wanted to.

And so they created these systems.

And anybody who knows about IFS is like, oh my God, yes.

I mean it's so beautiful and loving and deep and compassionate and again, simple.

And it helps people be with the parts of themselves that need their attention.

Because we all have those.

We have parts of us.

All of us do.

And then we have a self which is like the Meredith who is already whole, healed, loving, courageous, compassionate, wise, you know, all these things.

And so the framework is meant to get you and your self energy in relationship with your parts.

And as your parts arts get to know you, they learn to trust you and they learn to kind of unblend or unburden from these places that they've been stuck in wounding or they've been in these roles that are like very extreme and not comfy for your system.

So for instance, our parts can be either protector parts or they can be exiles and our protectors can be managers or fight firefighters.

So the managers get a lot of cred in life.

They're like, get done, maybe hyper vigilant, they're overworking, maybe perfectionist, critical, judgmental, maybe bossy.

And then they go into these roles to protect your exiles.

And so once you get to know how to witness these parts of you and ask them like, hey, what do you want me to know?

I want you to know I'm here with you.

I want to get to know you.

You're not alone.

You can imagine how like these parts of you that went into these roles to try to help you survive, like they learn to soften and they learn to give you space and then that you get to be with them, which is.

And then other protective parts.

By the way, there's the firefighter protector parts are like usually self harming and maybe like drinking drugs.

When you get to know that the hearts are not bad again, you went into the bones.

You get to be with them and tell them you love them and come to surviving.

It's amazing what that does to your system because these criminals have never been talked like that.

They've never had someone be present with their hurting.

Who's there A lot of.

I don't like other frameworks in like a tense practice people away, but to learn how to be with them and witness them and appreciate them.

So yeah, different than family constellations.

Meredith Oke: Okay, that's, yeah, that's really beautiful because it gives us a, it gives us something to be in dialogue with as opposed to just being like, oh, why am I, why am I being like this?

Why am I being like that?

It's like, oh, this is my, this is my firefighter trying to keep me safe.

I can talk to that part of myself.

Do you ever notice?

And I'm just curious because I'm thinking of personal experience here that someone will have like a really dominant firefighter and say that, you know, know they're, they are an alcoholic or in an addictive behavior and then they, they kind of make peace with that part of themselves and then the manager takes over and they become like super hyper, like fixated and obsessed with whatever and they just sort of move into a very like judgmental Overly managing part of themselves.

Krishna Avalon: Yes.

Meredith Oke: Does that happen?

Krishna Avalon: Yes.

Sometimes folks are in conflict with each other and so then you, you learn like a, you know, a good facilitator.

Really my job as a facilitator is I get to like reflect my self energy to your system so that your parts feel safer to be seen.

But then you really are the therapist if you have enough self energy, part present and then you get to be with, with your parts and I just get to ask you the right question.

But yes, parts are often in conflict and that's what you get to work with or you have to be aware.

And this is like, you know, people who have like complex trauma and a lot of ptsd.

Sometimes parts will rebel after a session and you might get to know an exile or a firefighter.

And yeah, those marriages managers might come in and be like, oh no, we are not gonna unleash this stuff.

Right.

So to your point, yes, managers can come in and over manage more once you start getting into the system.

But honestly, in my work, I haven't found that too much because we're not going into a session with an agenda like, oh, let's go unburden your exiles.

No, just hanging out and getting to know a part and just being like, hey, I'm here with you.

Sometimes that's like a whole session.

Usually we go way deeper than that.

But it's amazing how just slowing down softens everything because most of us don't ever do that and we don't ever slow down to give the uncomfy or hurting parts of us attention.

And so it's really beautiful.

That's one of the main takeaways with ifs, is slowing it down, giving things space to be witnessed.

Meredith Oke: Beautiful.

Yeah.

And I think it's important to talk about because that manager, that hyper vigilant manager that you were talking about.

I was watching something on YouTube yesterday and it was, it wasn't even a health video, it was a business video.

But the person in it made some reference to the cov, to being a recovering vegan.

And that all the.

And like it was one throwaway line in like a 15 minute video on a totally different topic.

And all the comments were like really angry vegans.

And it just reminded me how in the health space, like we're often drawn in for a physical reason.

But I see that that part of us then becomes like extremely judgmental and critical and controlling and like I'm choosing this way to, to deal with my health and it everyone else is, you know, wrong or everyone I Don't know.

I don't mind articulating it very well, but it becomes a bit of a, becomes a bit of a thing.

And I think it's, you know, if we're too, if we're only focused on our food and our physical health and we don't bring in all of these things that you're talking about, we're just going to continue.

Even if we make strides physically, we're going to continue to stay stuck inside some ways.

Krishna Avalon: So true.

And imagine like being super committed to your physical body but creating an ex and a subconscious belief that you deserve rest.

Or you love your body and appreciate your body exactly as it is and then you combine those things and then you're enjoying your regimen and your exercise and your routines even more because it doesn't feel like a job from self hatred or not enoughness.

Like a totally different experience.

Right.

Or being with the part of you that needs to like overwork out or be hypervigilant about your diet.

You know what I mean?

Like I have a lot of respect for people who are like purist in there, but it's like where's that coming from?

Is it coming from self love or is it coming from self hatred?

And you're going to have a totally different experience.

Right.

With, with one or the other.

Meredith Oke: Yes.

That's such a good way to put it.

Like where, where is it coming from?

And you know, we, we focus a lot on connecting to nature and connecting to sunlight and going outside in the morning.

And what I have found is so beautiful about that process is that sometimes people reject it because it is too simple.

They're like to your point earlier, like, oh no, it should be harder.

Like that can't really be that helpful.

But the flip side is what I hear and what I've experienced when I do embrace those types of practices is that slowing down, you know, like it's going on a morning walk is just an inherently like a softening I think, as you said.

And so I'm just curious.

I know you spend a lot of time in nature and it's a really important part of your life.

So I'm curious how you see those two things interacting that time in nature, that slowing down, that ability to come into ourselves.

Krishna Avalon: Yeah, I mean it's, it's a non negotiable for me.

It's like a guiding, it's my compass to be honest.

Like for me nature is where things make sense.

I'm lucky that I have a reference point.

I'm old enough.

Our life Pre Facebook and pre cell phones.

You know, I grew up in the 80s and I miss them all the time.

That's part of why we're rewatching Strange, because it's like, even my mother gets it.

Who's 16 is like, wow.

Life before cell phones.

Right.

And social media.

And when I am not in nature every day, I feel it in every cell in my body.

When I go for my walks, as you say, in the morning with my dog without my phone, like, that's some of the best part of my day.

When I watch the sunset every night as I walk my dog without my phone, even in a busy day, like, that's the best part of my day.

If I'm struggling in some way with feeling like I'm not enough, I'll go into nature.

She's my reflection of, like, more than enough, enough and overflowing abundance.

And it's just like, for me, it's so simple.

We're.

We're nature beings.

And so like all of this other stuff, this modern world stuff, like, I, I see it and I, I get it's, you know, how cool it can be.

But like, for me, nature's words at.

I'm guided by it.

It's.

It's my God.

Nature is God for me.

So it's really the most important thing.

Meredith Oke: Yeah.

I mean, that's how.

That's, yeah.

Really where we're coming to.

And part of why this podcast exists is.

Yeah.

To really understand that the more we cut ourselves off from our source, where we are nature, the sicker we're going to get in every possible way.

And the more we.

The more we reconnect with it.

All of this healing that we're talking about is a natural.

Is natural.

So if we're connected to nature, we're just enhancing it.

Krishna Avalon: Yeah.

And so many of the people that come to me with anxiety or with pain or trouble sleeping, and they want to know what else they can do, and I'm like, no, it's doing less.

Turn your phone off at 8pm get up and watch the sunrise.

Put your bare feet on the earth.

Go for a walk without your phone.

Like, it really can be that simple.

Go to bed if you are tired, go to sleep.

Like, listen to your body.

You don't need to walk the data to tell you what you're doing, to check in with yourself and be like, how do I feel?

What do I need?

You know, these devices that we wear, I don't wear them on the body to sleep for data, It's.

I don't know, it's like addictive for people.

Right.

And, and I'm often just like, less is more.

Just get rid of some stuff that's causing you stress and anxiety and then you'll sleep and then you'll, then your belly will digest better, you won't be so bloated.

You're not going to feel so anxious.

Right.

Like most of what I get to teach is bringing people back into their own energy and trusting their intuition, trusting their body, listening to that, you know, asking it what it needs, asking yourself what you need instead of looking at a, a watch, an aura ring or an apple watch, whatever people use.

Meredith Oke: So yes, yes, and that's exactly it.

And we're being pulled away from that.

So I so appreciate your work to support us to come back into our own energy.

I love that so much because it's there for all of us if we want it.

Krishna Avalon: Exactly.

Meredith Oke: Thank you so much for being here, Krishna.

I really appreciate it.

How can people, people find you?

Krishna Avalon: Just the old fashioned way.

You can just reach out.

Everything on the Internet is in my name.

You can email you, me, you can text me.

I'm not like always on the Internet, but I love connecting.

So definitely Instagram stories is where I am when I love to connect or share something.

A lot of people for work reach out through LinkedIn, but yeah, you can just email, you can text.

Meredith Oke: Okay, Wonderful.

So that's krishnavalon.com and on Instagram and on LinkedIn.

K R I S H N A Avalon like the mists of Avalon.

Thank you.

Thanks for being here.

Krishna Avalon: Thank you, Meredith.