Kendelle Pollitt: We don't need to be experts in every little aspect of our business, but we need to align with those who can help us get the things done that we need to get done.

Really, I think the biggest thing too, is hire before you're ready, because you're never going to feel ready.

So just make that jump, make that leap.

Make an informed leap, but still make that leap.

The biggest thing too, is acknowledging your comfort one.

Okay, well, I'm feeling nervous.

I'm feeling uncomfortable here, pushing through that comfort one, because if you don't push through your comfort one, you're never going to grow and hiring an agency, hiring people around you.

I wish we hired 10 golden rules earlier.

Quite frankly, I think we'd be further along than we are right now.

Jay Berkowitz: Awesome.

Thank you so much.

You're welcome.

I'm being honest.

Who not?

How is a great book?

It is?

Yeah, it's Dan Sullivan, who's originally an American, but he lives in Toronto, and his business is out of Toronto.

Yeah.

Of Toronto, and he has an amazing mastermind.

But the concept's great.

It's instead of saying, you know, I need to do this, I need to do this, always ask yourself, Who can do this?

Who can I get to do this?

And another I'll give you, if you haven't read Dan Martel's book, buy back your time.

Another great Canadian he has a similar philosophies.

Just get great people to do the work for you, and don't feel like you have to do all the work.

All right, welcome everyone.

So we got a really fun topic today.

We're gonna We're with my friend and client, Kendelle, and she's gonna share with us her exponential growth case study, and we're both going to talk about some of the things we did to make this happen, but we have some really amazing results.

253% growth in SEO, and all of her numbers are great.

The number of website users and calls are like crazy, over 350% increase versus a year ago, and chats are down a little bit, but forms are up, so leads are way up, and the total leads and total cases are way up.

So we'll get into how we did all of this and some of the things that you can apply for your marketing and law firms and our agenda.

Today I'm we're going to do some introductions, and you'll meet Kendelle, and I'll tell you a little bit about my background.

We're going to go through the awesome results, and we'll try and break down some of the things that worked really well for the firm.

And one of the things that's really cool and really new is the artificial intelligence.

And people also ask sections of search, and they're about 30% of the search results today.

So we're going to talk about how we've achieved some great SEO results in the AI search results, like the Google version of chat GPT.

We'll talk about the video strategy, cascading content and all 10 golden rules meetings.

We tell a joke of the week.

Some people say they're dad jokes.

Some people say they're bad jokes, but we got one per tradition, and really quickly, we're going to do a prize drawing at the coma conference.

A couple weeks ago, we offered a YSL pert, so we're going to quickly do that so we can record it and have it online, just to make it official with that.

Kendelle, welcome.

Kendelle Pollitt: Thank you, Jay.

I'm so happy to be here.

Thanks for inviting me.

Jay Berkowitz: Oh, so I guess first things first is the prize drawing.

So let's do that quickly.

And I think I just have to click this.

So these are all the people that came by our booth at the pilma summit, which is the personal injury lawyers marketing mastermind Association, I think, officially.

And we had a booth, and we had all these folks.

Just want to make sure this is the right one.

Looks good.

And I'm looking for people I know, but I don't know them.

Anyways, here we go, and congratulations to Horace Hunter.

That's pretty good, pretty fun.

We'll be in touch with Horus about getting the hardware, getting the purse.

So congratulations.

And now back to our regular, scheduled webinar.

Joke of the week, why don't lawyers wear tuxedos?

Kendelle, any guesses?

I don't know, Joe.

They prefer lawsuits.

Kendelle Pollitt: I'm used to saying Joe's My Account Manager, so I usually my standard line at this stage is, I don't know, Joe, tell me the answer.

Jay Berkowitz: Yeah.

Some people call them dad jokes, but whatever.

Kendelle welcome from pure law and mediation in British Columbia, and she'll tell us a little bit about the locations.

And then a couple new locations coming, including one that's the paint still dry, right?

Yes, exactly, yeah.

And she's a family lawyer and certified mediator Vancouver, Surrey and White Rock and the new locate.

What's the the new, newest location?

Kendelle Pollitt: So currently, we are, actually, I'm coming to you live from Powell River, British Columbia.

Yeah, Pell river is our newest location that we are currently opening, and we open officially on Monday, May 26 so we're really excited about that.

Congratulations, yes.

Thank you so much.

So it's a fantastic community here, and they're in need of more lawyers.

We're looking forward to assisting this community, but of course, on the horizon, we also have our downtown Vancouver office currently in works, and so we are in the permit stage, at this stage, trying to get permits from the city of Vancouver.

Jay Berkowitz: That's awesome.

Congratulations.

And for people who don't know, most people probably know Vancouver, very beautiful city, one of the most beautiful in the world, the Vancouver Olympics.

Everybody got to see it.

But tell us about the area.

You're also just tap into the us a little bit as well, right?

Kendelle Pollitt: Yeah.

So actually, our original office is in White Rock, British Columbia, and so we are.

We share border with Blaine, so right on Washington state.

So our practice is very border friendly, I guess because we have a lot of our clients share.

They have multiple homes, both in Canada and the US.

They may live in one country and work in the other.

So it's really interesting, and Vancouver shares a lot of those characteristics.

So we do lot of cross border work.

Vancouver, of course, is right on the coast of the Pacific Ocean.

So we've got and for Canada, it's one of our big cities.

Jay Berkowitz: Hopefully people at least know Vancouver, right?

And what's the biggest difference?

You explained, a lot of people, a lot of your clients, might have a business in the US live in Canada or vice versa.

And sometimes it gets a little complicated when with divorces and families and assets owned in different countries.

How does that work?

From a legal perspective,

Kendelle Pollitt: you know what it's just about?

From our perspective, it's about creating partnerships, and so we work closely with lawyers in the US, and we determine which jurisdiction is going to take hold of a particular matter.

In some instances, we have part of a case, say the parenting is being dealt with in Washington State, and the property is being dealt with by British Columbia.

We've been known to host mediations at my office where we've got multiple parties and, or, sorry, multiple actors, yeah, that take part in the litigation or the resolution process, the mediation process.

We've got lawyers from all over joining in and putting their heads together to try and help resolve the potential.

Sometimes it can be conflictual.

Of course, we're in family law.

Resolve the conflict for these people,

Jay Berkowitz: great.

And you went to the University of Saskatchewan, and this is probably pretty rare for most of the people watching this live, and sometime in the future, that two people have actually been to Winnipeg and Saskatchewan.

And I'm from Winnipeg, Canada, and so I know Western Canada really well, and I've been to Saskatchewan, and most people can't even pronounce it and it, by the way, you get your your credibility, because anyone who could get through a couple years in law school in Saskatchewan, it is cold on the prairies, Canadian Prairies, maybe tell us a little bit about the law school experience in Saskatchewan.

Kendelle Pollitt: Saskatchewan is definitely cold.

So when you think of Canada being cold, that is definitely the place, and it certainly fits the stereotype.

So I went to law school in their city of Saskatoon.

It's a very pretty city, but it does get cold in the winter.

I remember days having to park back in what was called B lot, and by the time I got from my parking lot to the law school, I'm slapping my legs and trying to wake everything up.

And of course, back in those days, we didn't have weather apps and smartphones, so we would always be checking the weather channel before we left the house to head out to really anywhere outside of a building

Jay Berkowitz: with you didn't really need a weather app from about November to to march.

You need a scarf and gloves like no exposed skin, right?

Yes, exactly, just to the east of Saskatchewan or the Province of Manitoba, where I grew up, and it's right in the middle.

So if you're in the United States, it's due north of North Dakota.

Kendelle Pollitt: Yes, exactly.

But where we live, people I usually with all my American friends.

I get lots of cold weather jokes, quite frankly, and then they're surprised to because I'm from Canada, they're surprised to learn that I'm actually.

In Vancouver.

We're fair weather people because we're right on the west coast there, so we don't typically get those cold weather snaps.

We're get our four seasons and quite a bit of rain.

But other than that, those really cold days don't send don't tend to impact us too much here on the west, yeah,

Jay Berkowitz: most days it's probably more beautiful in Vancouver than it is in the rest in half of the US.

Yeah, it's beautiful place, that's for sure.

And they did a certificate of negotiation at Osgoode Hall in Toronto.

I also spent some time in Toronto.

What was that

Kendelle Pollitt: like?

Oh, it was awesome.

It's it's a great law school, and the program was fantastic, and for me, it was just another opportunity to build my toolbox with respect to conflict resolution skills.

So one of the things I found was, as a young junior lawyer, learning to litigate was really important, because it's a tough skill, and it's not necessarily something they actually teach you in law school, really, as all my lawyer colleagues will know, that we learn very little of what we need to be a lawyer in law school.

But yeah, the certificate of negotiation, it was really eye opening, and it really helped me give some scientifically backed skills to help bring my clients towards resolution without unnecessarily or unduly creating conflict.

Right?

Because, especially in family law, really anywhere, conflict breeds conflict.

So the key is to try and resolve family law disputes as early in the process as possible, before they can really even be characterized as dispute.

Really is my goal, and that's what that helped me do.

That certificate,

Jay Berkowitz: awesome.

I started my career also in Western Canada, in Winnipeg, and worked at Sprint and Coca Cola McDonald's as a director of marketing, before moving down to the United States and founding 10 golden rules, 23 years ago.

Now, we actually met at a conference right where I did one of the speakers.

And so one of the nice opportunities for me of speaking and doing this content and our YouTube channel, we have over a million views, which is amazing to me every time I see it.

If you're watching this sometime in the future, not watching it live, we'll be putting it on our YouTube channel, but we do these webinars every month, trying to do what I call thought leadership marketing, where we share our expertise, and hopefully it puts a positive light on 10 golden rules.

Without further ado, let's have a quick peek at the website and big congratulations.

Actually, you were one of Canada's top growing companies last year the Globe and Mail is like the big national paper in Canada.

Yes, congratulations, and you had a party and had some press around that.

How did that go?

Oh, it

Kendelle Pollitt: was awesome.

It was such a great experience.

And I think, yeah, we definitely had a celebration for that award.

We were recognized for 477% growth over the past three years.

So that was, from our perspective, quite an accomplishment.

And we definitely had a community celebration, because, of course, pure law and mediation is a community law firm, and without our community, we wouldn't be able to be where we are.

And I'm just so lucky to have business offices in communities that are just so supportive of small business.

And so we really wanted to celebrate the impact for not only pure Law Mediation, but also for our communities, our small communities being recognized nationally.

Jay Berkowitz: And one of the things we always say, and we talked about this when you got the nomination, is it's great to get an award like that, but one of the things that you can really take advantage of is tell people about it, have a party, press releases and social media and stuff like that.

That's one of the benefits.

And I'm sure that worked really well for you guys.

Kendelle Pollitt: Certainly, yeah, we took a multifaceted approach to really capitalize on that opportunity.

But of course, 10 golden rules was an integral partner to us in making sure that happens.

I know you and I, J had quite a few talks about this.

Okay, how are we going to leverage this award in terms of letting others know it's one thing to be a good law firm to be a good lawyer, but in order for us to be successful, we need to let people know that we are doing a good job and that they can trust us with their legal problem.

And certainly, yeah, we had lots of talks around how to leverage that opportunity, and I'm really happy with with the results of those campaigns.

Jay Berkowitz: Yeah, so by extension, that's one of.

The things that I always coach people on is, if you do anything like win an award, win a huge case, sponsor the 5k even, sponsor the local baseball team, yeah, you want to do about as spend as much money on the award or the sponsor sponsorship as you spend on marketing it and telling people about it.

There's nothing wrong with that, certainly if it's in your social media and your marketing, and if it's a bigger deal, make do a press release, and that works really well.

Kendelle Pollitt: Yeah, I think one of the things I've had to get over as a business lawyer is, especially as a female, we tend to not want to brag about ourselves.

But it took me a while to get my mind around that concept and realize that by letting people know we're doing a good job, we're helping them to find us and find a service provider that's trustworthy and can actually serve them in the best way possible.

So I think that mindset shift really helped me really get away from just the lawyer mindset where I'm just sitting down, grinding away, doing a good job for people, but also to the business owner mindset, where I'm thinking, Okay, how do I best let people know that I am doing a good job, and my firm is a good, reliable firm to assist you with so that,

Jay Berkowitz: yeah, you're right.

I remember that sometimes it takes time when you start a business to realize that there's absolutely nothing wrong with social media content and publishing content, and particularly what I call thought leadership, like if you share valuable information, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that, and got to step up and do it.

So one of the things we talked about, and I asked Kendelle to share as many tips for law firms that are maybe just starting out or into their first couple of years and haven't had the kind of success she's had.

What are some of the things that work the best for you?

And you talked about identifying the persona of the firm and really figuring out your niche or niche, depending on which country you're watching this in.

And we've had a lot of success with niching down to lawyers as well.

But I'll let you talk about finding the persona for the firm,

Kendelle Pollitt: yeah, for me.

So we are a family law firm, and we have just recently expanded our services to include wills and estates.

But from my perspective, it still fits in with that niche, because what we do is we serve families, and we help families plan for their futures and have safe, secure and really fulfilling futures, really, whether it be through they are going through a family transition, through divorce and separation, or they're planning for The future when they're no longer here with us and planning for their families.

So that was a really big I think that key niching down really helped us with the growth.

Because in order to be successful, from my perspective, we need to be able there's just so much to do really right?

And so if you're trying to be the jack of all trades and be good at everything, it's really almost impossible.

So when you really niche down and you say, Okay, this is what I'm focusing on.

Then from there, you have the time and the energy and the resources to okay, what is going to be my process around this one aspect of my practice area?

How am I going to make sure that everyone in my firm and everyone around me is carrying out this service in a consistent manner, so that we can provide the same level of service, regardless of whether or not you get Kendelle or another lawyer at the firm, or you are in our downtown urban firm of Vancouver, or you're in our small town firm of Pell river.

So I think that is really important, and it also helps you streamline your marketing message.

Again, it's about letting people know that you are someone who can be trusted and you know what you're doing and you can really help them.

And by letting people know that you are the right person to help them, that is giving back to them, we're we're helping people know who to go to get an efficient and effective service,

Jay Berkowitz: and that's one of the things that helped us a lot, is like you really figured out your persona, or some people call it an avatar, which is basically like your target consumer.

Yes, we actually didn't nail it.

Maybe in our first meeting, it took a couple of meetings and a couple months to really.

Really hone in on the advertising, the messaging and the good news is you guys, pretty much had it figured out that someone a couple with high net worth is a much better persona for you than a young couple with no kids who are just separating they don't have a high interest or a high financial investment in in getting that divorce or even getting a prenuptial.

And

Kendelle Pollitt: for us, I think just given the location, the geographic location of our office locations, as well as the expertise of our lawyers, what we excel at is the property, the difficult property division issues.

So if you've got businesses and you've got cross border issues, that's what we excel at.

And so for us to try and find those clients that we can best serve for the issues we know best has really helped us with our success.

Jay Berkowitz: And for us, we picked the lawyer niche over five years ago now, and we'd been working with lawyers for 1617, 18 years, and we heard this term, there's riches in the niches.

And I started hearing from a couple different sources that there's a lot of value in in really focusing on one niche.

And I met a software company that sold for three, $60 million and they only did software for one industry.

It was construction software.

And I met a bunch of agencies, other digital agencies, that only focused on one niche, and I was hesitant, but when I picked the one niche, we get a lot more referrals, because people know Jay and 10 golden rules does Internet Marketing for law firms, and I gave up if there's 200 si si codes, I gave up 199 si si codes.

But since we've been focused on the niche, we get more referrals.

And the other thing that I knew we'd get better at doing lawyer marketing if we were focused but the one thing I didn't realize is would be a lot easier for my team, because that's all they do, and that's what they're really good at.

They don't have to.

In the old days, we had to figure out Amazon stores and E commerce and affiliate marketing, and every day the client had a brand new set of needs.

But now we pretty much get great at doing the one thing do it really well over and over.

Any, any last thoughts on picking the niche.

Kendelle Pollitt: I think, really, it's just picking what you're good at, picking what will get you out of bed in the morning, and then just focusing on it, going forward, embracing it.

Sometimes it's just making the decision and then being confident the decision and just going with it really

Jay Berkowitz: all right, so we promised some awesome results, and talk a little bit about the numbers and how we got there.

The first headline is, and this is a tool called sem rush.

It's a public tool.

So these are the SEO results, and we, when we started out, you all had relatively few keywords that were coming up on the first page of Google.

And what this means is we had about 12 keywords on the first two pages of Google, and some of the SERP features are things like Google Maps and things like that, the green number, and now we're into like the 497 results, really effective.

And a lot of times when you get keyword growth, it doesn't necessarily equal traffic.

So you've got to have the right keywords.

You've got to be ranking for things that people are searching for relative to your practice area.

But fortunately, we've got the messaging right, and we'll show you some more examples of that in a minute.

The website traffic is up 56% year over year, the phone calls are way up, and the key things we measure are like website traffic, but more important are the calls, chats and forums.

And even more important is how many of those folks became new clients.

We also break down the difference in the traffic between just overall, and there's other sources of traffic, like people who come directly to the website, people who are referred by other websites, like they go to the Bar Association or fine law or the Globe and Mail newsletter would be a referral, if people look for the fastest growing companies and came to the website.

But we at tingle the rules, we focus a lot on the organic traffic.

So how many people came from free Google searches?

So that's up 100% where the overall website traffic's up 56% so as a percentage, you're getting a lot more of those opportunities for free.

Really good for business.

And then this chart is the total leads and clients retained, and we've continued to grow over the past.

I guess this is a year and a bit now, we keep updating these slides, and you're getting more leads and signing more clients.

What have you seen with the marketing and the results?

What's worked the best from your side?

Kendelle Pollitt: I think the big thing for us is you.

Yes, getting more leads, but it's not just more leads from our perspective, it's the right leads.

Jay, you may remember this, but before we hired you, we had hired another company that I had found on, I can't remember, right?

I just found them online, and I spoke to the owner, and I talked to him about the kind of clients we're looking for what we were doing, and it just didn't once I got off that initial phone call with the owner of the company and was passed on to someone else, really, I was put in with someone who had no idea really about lawyer marketing and lawyer leads and lawyer or any really idea about my business, and didn't, quite frankly, care to learn about it.

So we kept getting all these leads and all these phone calls, and we kept getting all these phone calls people looking for free lawyer and legal aid lawyers, and we don't do legal aid at my firm.

And so I was like, What the heck's going on?

We looked into it.

And I guess because the keywords from the marketing agency's perspective was like, there's a lot of people looking for a pro bono lawyer, so then they were marketing me towards pro bono lawyers.

I was like, No, that is not my avatar client.

We have a business we need to get paid for our work, and I was paying money for these leads.

From my perspective, there's a lot more to it than just the numbers, which are good and I'm happy with but it's also about the kinds of clients that are coming to our website and calling the office.

Jay Berkowitz: And the one thing we really focus on is trying to get phone calls, because typically, a phone call is much better than a form fill.

These days, someone fills out a form a lot of times you call them back and they don't even pick up the phone.

And I know you guys have done a lot of work and worked with our team on intake and answering the phone and making sure you're not missing calls and converting those calls a little bit better.

So maybe talk about some tips for folks about how to answer the phone and go from a lead to a assigned client.

Kendelle Pollitt: First thing we do is every time we take a phone call, if it's someone who is looking for a lawyer, then we ask for the name and phone number first, in case we get disconnected, and then that way we can reach out to them again.

I think the big thing that has been really instrumental for us is getting a system in place for follow ups and training staff on how to connect with people, potential clients on the phone, right from the get go, learning and training staff to really listen to the clients, make those empathetic statements when appropriate, so that they know that they've touched they've called the right place, they've made the right touch point, they've reached the right law firm for them, and it's made we are the ones who can help them, because we understand where they're coming from.

So I think that's been a big game changer for us.

But like everything, especially as the firm grows and evolves, our our systems become more sophisticated, and the we talked about this a year and a half ago, Jay and we were working on it, and then, most recently, a couple of meetings ago, we're looking okay, what's going on with intake?

How can we approve again?

And how can we evolve this system?

And how can we again, dig in, see what's working, see what's not working, and how can we improve upon it?

So it's all a process.

Nothing is ever perfect, because as our firm changes, the processes grow and evolve with us.

But those are some of the things that we do at pure law that have made a really big impact on really catching those clients right from the first phone call and getting them into our pipeline.

Jay Berkowitz: Yeah, tracking super important, and a lot of this data we go through every month in our performance meeting.

And one of my mentors has a great line.

He says, what gets measured gets attention and improves.

And I'm sure you all have some key performance indicators you look at as a company, but at least every month, like you're going to find out from us how many leads you got, how many calls, how many chats, how many phone calls, and we provide that in a shared Google Sheet, and then your team tells us which of those leads were converted.

But I think the attention on that number every month probably holds your team accountable, right?

Kendelle Pollitt: Yeah, it does, and it helps us realize, okay, what's working or what's not, or okay, why are the phone calls down this month?

Or what did we do really well that we were getting more leads those kinds of things, okay?

Or also, it helps us, you and I and our account manager, Joe and grant will.

Uh, we'll look at something, if the numbers are down or looking a little bit funny for the month, we'll discuss it, what's going on, what's happening, and how can we fix it?

Is it an anomaly?

Is it because summer holidays are coming up and people are just putting off divorce until kids go back to school?

Or is it something we need to look at and adjust, so that's really helpful for us.

Jay Berkowitz: Okay, great.

Next up is a couple really cool SEO results that I teased in the opening.

And this is the new Google AI overview.

And this is a search for separation in BC, Canada, and you guys are getting, I don't know, like, 50 of these really great results.

And this is basically like a chat GPT.

And you probably, everyone's probably started seeing these.

And basically what Google is doing, and chat GPT does, is they read the Internet, and then they use artificial intelligence, AI to compile an answer.

Now there's good and bad, right?

If they do a really good job answering the question, a lot of people aren't going to click and go to a website, but the good news is, if they use your website to compile the answer, and if we click here to see show more, we see that your website came up as one of the the websites Google used to create this answer.

And each of these links, by the way, is a link to a website, and most consumers are just getting the hang of this, right?

This is really new.

Google introduced it about mid year last year, and had some stumbles out of the gate.

So really it was 2025 where they started showing this more and more, and the AI is pretty good now, and the AI is just going to get smarter and smarter, because the AI learns from people like they if the answer is really good, and the person clicks on a few of the websites, they know they got the answer right, if the answer is not right, and they keep refining the question by doing an additional search, Google knows that they didn't get the answer right, and the AI learns from all that.

Another similar area of success we've had is you guys are coming up in a lot of what we call PAA in the industry.

People also ask.

So this is a paid ad, and then this is like the number one answer, and they actually pulled a snippet from your website.

So Google's actually saying your website has the best answer to the question, prenuptial agreement, BC, Canada.

And these are other variations.

People also ask similar variants of this, and then your main website comes up also in the SEO results.

So this is like a dream result, where you're right at the top of the page and Google's pointing you up.

Of course, it's really nice to have great results, but the question is, how do we get there?

And one of the secrets, and Kendelle has done an amazing job at this, is we do Q and A videos, Question and Answer videos.

And the rationale is essentially, when someone does a Google query, they're asking a question like, prenuptial agreement, BC Canada.

Or do I need a prenuptial How do I do pre nup true?

How much does a prenuptial cost?

Or here it is, do prenups hold up in court?

Can a prenup have a cheating clause?

Do you need a lawyer for prenup in Canada?

And so we take a lot of these questions, and a lot of times, when you type something, Google shows you additional suggestions.

It's called Google Suggest.

We take a lot of those questions, and then we just generally take a lot of keywords that we want to be ranking for, and we do Q and A videos.

So Kendelle sits down once every three months, we send a videographer into her office.

We attend by oom, so we're like the directors of the video shoot, but it's pretty simple.

And then Kendelle records question and answers for these simple questions, right?

Do mothers get custody by default?

British Columbia divorce?

What rights do I have in British Columbia in a split if we live together but never married.

And you see some of these are getting amazing traction.

This one has 9000 views, 9000 views, 3000 views.

And we do it pretty simply.

We do some more sexier social media stuff too.

But essentially, the design here is that if someone comes into your office, and this is Kendelle, is boardroom, they're going to ask a question, and you're going to answer the question anything.

Or maybe I'll, should I play one first?

Or do you want to talk about it first?

Oh,

Kendelle Pollitt: gosh, do we have to?

Jay Berkowitz: Oh yeah, you do great.

You do great.

So we'll just play a minute of it.

I'm going to make sure I have the video shared.

Kendelle Pollitt: As family lawyers, we commonly get the question, What rights do I have in British Columbia, in a split if we live together but never got married?

In British Columbia, we have the Family Law Act, and the Family Law Act sets out a property regime.

Name That applies to both married couples and couples who lived together in a marriage like relationship.

So what's a marriage like relationship in order to be considered a spouse living in

Jay Berkowitz: all right, I'll let you off the hook, Kendelle, but the great news is that if these have 9000 views, people like these videos.

And what the reason I know that is because the way the algorithm works is if people watch them, and they watch them through and then they watch a couple more videos, that means that people are using these as an asset.

They're using it to build the knowledge base, and a lot of times, Kendelle, I'm sure you get calls and people said they watched the videos, right?

Yes, yeah, it's talk to us.

It's we're tough on you.

We make you record these videos, but we do a little rehearsal in advance.

We give you the questions in advance.

And essentially the design is you just have to answer questions that you ask all the time.

Literally, if a client calls in or is sitting in your boardroom, you're answering questions that people have on the tip of their tongue.

So talk about it from your side of the table.

Kendelle Pollitt: Yes, it feels a little different when you've got a room full of people recording you and listening.

I think that video was probably one of my first videos, and it was very uncomfortable.

I think I described it to a kin as a torture, but it's gotten easier and easier as we've gone along.

And yeah, I don't know they're good.

It's people like them.

It helps.

It helps people to answer questions that they have,

Jay Berkowitz: yeah, and hopefully you've heard this, clients tell me all the time, Jay, thank you for getting me to do those videos.

We just got a great case, and our client said she watched four or five of the videos, and she knew we were the right lawyer for them, and I, and these videos are on YouTube, they're on the website, and then we use them in all the social media we it's a concept we call cascading content.

So we start, we put post the video on YouTube, we search engine optimize it, so we use keywords, and literally, we use the question as the title of the video.

So we're actually doing search engine optimization against a question, not a keyword.

And Google, in the last four or five years has built semantics into their SEO, meaning that the human language like semantics is like the understanding of human language, so they understand questions where, if you think back five or 10 years ago, you had to put in like family lawyer for prenuptial agreement.

White Rock, British Columbia.

Like to get a really good search result, you had to be super specific.

But now you could just say, obviously, like, what do I need for prenuptial in British Columbia and Kendelle site pops up because we've answered that question, or Google's determined that the website has the best answer, or in the case of the AI, they've used your website and the information on your website and judged it to be part of the correct answer to the question.

That's super valuable.

And have folks commented that they've watched your videos before, you've met them and stuff?

Kendelle Pollitt: Uh, yes, we've got, we have got a few comments like that,

Jay Berkowitz: hopefully more to come as you keep coming up with these AI results.

So just a quick example of what the cascading content looks like.

So basically, the concept of cascading is like a river goes over a waterfall and creates a bunch of small rivers and tributaries and little waterfalls and little pools of water, we would start with either a YouTube video or a blog post.

In this case, this was the winner, the information about the report on business and being part of Canada's top growing companies.

And so we use that consistently on Facebook, on Instagram, on LinkedIn, on the blog, on in, in the monthly newsletter.

And so basically, the the the waterfall is the blog post in this case, or the YouTube video, and then we cascade it through all the social media.

So it's super effective, super cost effective and super easy.

Another area that you've been super successful in is networking and community building.

And maybe you could share some tips on how you build the business through the network and through the community.

Kendelle Pollitt: Yeah, I think what we try to focus on is really a multifaceted approach to sharing information about the firm.

Networking and involvement in the community has been a huge aspect of pure lawn mediation, marketing strategy, growth strategy, and is a driving force, really, for our success.

I think we contribute a lot to the communities that we serve.

So that means we provide scholarships to high schools.

Students in our local area, we sponsor many community events.

We make an effort to go out into the community, be seen, be present, and get to know the people in our community and some of the CO wise in the community, so our message can be spread exponentially, as opposed to just through our word of mouth.

So it's really, I think the networking and the community piece and giving back to our community has really been instrumental in terms of our growth.

For sure, another idea that we have is we do our monthly library sessions, so we call them, ask a lawyer, or we have in twas, and we've got, sometimes you've got ask a paralegal.

And so we it's, from my perspective, access to justice is a huge issue, and so that's how we give back.

Jay Berkowitz: What's a COI

Kendelle Pollitt: center of influence?

I know these words now, all these acronyms.

Jay Berkowitz: How do you identify the centers of influence, and how do you connect with those folks?

Kendelle Pollitt: I think the more you get out into the community, and the more you start to network, the more you become exposed to those people who are also out in the community and networking.

And so I think there's no real strategy that I have on identifying a COI, but really just getting out there and seeing who's the more people you know, the more you're out there, putting yourself out into the community, the more people are going to recommend you to others in their circle.

Jay Berkowitz: So these are other lawyers, accountants, who are other good Cois

Kendelle Pollitt: for you, for us?

Yeah, definitely.

Other lawyers, accountants, counselors are a big source of client referrals for us and just other business owners.

Quite frankly, because we're a business owner, we're out there in the community trying to get our name out there.

And one thing I found is business owners are just so supportive of each other, and so we want to help everyone we know how hard it is and the struggle and the grind.

And so when we can help others be successful, it feels good.

So I think other business owners are also a huge COI for us.

Jay Berkowitz: And where do you find these folks, like chambers of commerce, and even you're a mom too.

We skipped that part, soccer moms and things like that.

Like, where do you find these COI relationships?

Kendelle Pollitt: Well, I spend a lot of time attending industry events, so actually getting out, meeting my colleagues who are also lawyers, those are really important.

I think, from my perspective, they've helped our business grow, getting out to Chamber of Commerce events, going to local community galas, participating in charities.

I am a member of the Soroptimists, which is similar to rotary, but it's Women's International Organization, and we work on those issues that are important to women, so I think those are important for us.

Was there any one group that is hit the ball out of the park type group?

No, but I think again, we it's again coming down to that multifaceted approach and just getting out there, meeting people, and always remembering to be kind and nice and welcoming to others.

Because if we're welcoming and supporting to others, we get what we receive what we give.

And so that's my philosophy.

I'm always trying to give and help others, and I've been very fortunate that I've had the same kind of support come back to me.

And if

Jay Berkowitz: you're just getting started, one of the simple things is pick one personal and one professional group and get a little bit more involved.

A lot of people think they can just show up at the Bar Association once a month, and that's networking.

And by the way, they often show up right when the event starts and leave right when it ends.

And but that's not going to be super effective, so you want to be one of the first people in the room, because the best networking starts before the educational component starts, or before the speaker starts.

And you meet people at the coat check, at the line for cocktails or the buffet or whatever, whatever type of event it is.

And I always say, have a very simple goal that you want to follow up with, meet people and then follow up with two people after the event.

So yes, you want to have a one on one, where you have a coffee or you have a Zoom meeting.

And get to know them a little bit better.

So in Kendelle's case, she'd be looking for COI centers of influence, accountants, counselors, the other attorneys.

Because obviously, if you're a personal injury lawyer, you're not going to handle a divorce case 99% of the time.

And you can refer to them and they can refer to you.

So if you meet someone and you guys hit it off a little bit.

And you think, this is a person who's probably has a decent amount of business.

You meet them for a coffee or lunch, and then get to know each other a little bit.

And then the next time you see each other at the networking event, you're fast friends, and they introduce you to people.

And that's how it grows.

And then the other thing I recommend is get involved a little bit in the organization.

So what I've said before, one personal, one professional pick, the Bar Association, and I'm going to I'm going to double down.

I'm going to make sure it's on my calendar.

I'm going to go to the bar every month and maybe get involved on a committee or something there everybody, every organization's looking for volunteers.

And when once you get on a committee, next thing you're on the board, next thing you're the chairman of the board, and the personal could be your kids soccer team, run the fundraiser, or if you're a runner, join the committee for the 5k Fun Run.

But get a little bit more involved.

Pick just, just.

All you need to do is pick two, one personal, one professional.

If you're just getting started.

It sounds like Kendelle is doing a lot more than that.

I'm involved in five or six different organizations, but you don't have to go there when you're just getting

Kendelle Pollitt: started.

And that's exactly it.

Yes, I'm doing more than that now, but when I started, for example, it's about finding that person who can help make those introductions as well.

And so one of those people for me was Adam Smith, our printer, Guy of Uptown printers.

And so he was helpful to me in getting involved in the chamber.

And I think one of the big confidence building opportunities for me was also getting involved in the board on that chamber.

And Adam helped introduce me.

And then that's how it's through him, because he was on the board of the Chamber of Commerce at the time, he helped me to meet people and get the confidence to take on that leadership opportunity.

And so I think that's it, because when you just keep attending these things, it is important, but it takes a long time, right?

I think the biggest takeaways I would have is yes.

Number one, if you can get involved in some kind of leadership opportunity with the organization you join, I think that's very important.

And whether that's joining a committee or joining the board or doing something so that you can tighten up the group that you can network with.

That helps.

And then also, when you attend these networking events, exactly, I don't go there thinking, I need to meet everyone in the room and make connections with everyone in the room.

I go to these events, I think, okay, who can I connect with?

I need two to three people that I can connect with.

And then you've got to do the follow up.

Jay Berkowitz: Yeah, that's a great point.

A lot of people think they have to hand out as many business cards as possible, but we all avoid the business card hand.

Writer, guy, yeah, want to just have high quality conversations with folks.

And another little pro tip is ask the organizer of the event, or if you're involved, if you're on the committee, you can prep in advance, know who's coming and target a couple folks that you would like to meet and do one of those follow up one on one meetings with Yes.

Next up is conferences and masterminds.

And I wanted to touch on this a little bit because one of the we've done a full webinar on masterminds, if you want to see that on our YouTube channel, and you're a member of a mastermind and we met at a conference.

So I'll let you go first.

Kendelle Pollitt: Yeah, I think one of the, not, I think I know one of the huge, the driving force, quite frankly, for me, especially in the early days, was networking with other like minded law firm owners, and the group I found that helped me with that was Great Legal Marketing and Ben Glass and all of his people there.

And so for me, I continue to this day to travel to Washington, DC, from the West Coast, to meet with my mastermind group quarterly.

And for me, that's just been really helpful, and it it provides me a community of colleagues.

I can bounce ideas off, I can vent to if I need.

And because, quite frankly, usually when you've got a group full of people who are all going through the same thing, usually someone has already experienced the problem or the circumstance that you're dealing with at that moment, and so it's great to get that insight and guidance from supportive colleagues without necessarily having to I don't know my spouse is a great sounding board for me, but quite frankly.

Week, sometimes I always don't want to hear his advice.

So even though he's got his master's degrees MBA, and he's been in leadership for a lot longer than I have it, some usually comes easier from someone outside of my marital relationship.

Jay Berkowitz: Yeah, that one can be tricky, for sure.

Yeah, the power of a mastermind is amazing.

And I mentioned earlier, we're in a mastermind with several other agencies, digital agencies, and it's really fantastic, because any question I have, we have a private Facebook group, and I can ask the question.

The other day we I was looking at how to pay one of our employees is in Nicaragua, and like, within seconds, I got four answers, and it was all the same software, and you can either ask the group, or yesterday, we actually had our monthly conference call, and everybody can ask one question, and you get what they call a hot seat, and everybody in the room provides you with feedback, and you break into people at your level.

So I'm dealing with the bigger agencies, and everybody's got great feedback.

And yesterday I was talking about staff retention issue, and I got great feedback from the room.

What's some of the great things that you've do?

You guys do hot seats as well.

At your mastermind, yeah,

Kendelle Pollitt: yeah, we do hot seats and like you.

So what we've when I first started with Great Legal Marketing, we started there's two different groups depending on your revenue level and firm size.

So when I started, I was basically just a solo me and my legal assistant.

And now, of course, we have a firm with 18 people, multiple lawyers, multiple staff.

So, yeah, we we network with, not network, I guess it is networking, but it's i It's a social group.

It's a professional group.

Quite frankly, it's a friendship group.

I've made some friends through this group that will be with me my whole life.

But yeah, like we network with or we meet with people and other law firm owners who are generally the same stage as us, was that the question, did I miss that?

Sorry?

Jay Berkowitz: Oh, no, that's great, and they might be in a different practice area.

Yeah, if your questions about escrow accounts or staff issues or real estate, you just got two new locations.

What an amazing thing to tap into.

I got another attorney who's got a second or third location and talk to them about how to do those kind of things, right?

Kendelle Pollitt: Yes, exactly.

It's yeah.

Jay Berkowitz: And by the way, there's a counter to this, and I see it all the time, because we're in the fortunate situation of working with about 100 different law firms now, and the folks who struggle are typically not the ones who go to conferences and they're in masterminds.

They're trying to do it themselves there.

It's like that persona of, I'm smarter than everybody else.

And frankly, their growth is nowhere near the people who go to conferences and participate in masterminds, because it's like, success leaves clues.

And if you go to one of the better conferences, and Great Legal Marketing is awesome.

There.

Ben and Brian, his son is his partner in Great Legal Marketing work really hard to put two days worth of experts on stage.

And sometimes the best stuff happens at lunch or breakfast.

You meet people and you ask them, what's working in their business?

By the way, that's a great question for networking.

What's working for you?

And you just learn so much at these conferences.

And then the mastermind is, like Kendelle explained, super focused, like I'm sitting down with agencies at my level, the problems we have are very similar and but we also coach the people who are just starting out in the mastermind and answer their questions in our Facebook group and at the live conference.

So it's really awesome if you're just starting out.

And obviously, both of us are big fans of masterminds.

We highly recommend finding one that fits for you, and Great Legal Marketing is coming up.

Are you going to be there?

I hope you're going to be there, that's the plan.

And you're going to tell me the dates.

I hope, right, I'm

Kendelle Pollitt: going to October, yeah,

Jay Berkowitz: and it's October and it's in DC, yeah, and you can just search Great Legal Marketing, or maybe Elizabeth will help us and put a link in the chat, and I'm going to be speaking there, and the content is amazing.

I'm in the room the whole two days, and even if they're talking about lawyering, I sit there and I learn because the speakers are great and the content is great, and it's relevant for me, and then the networking is fantastic, and I highly recommend it if you.

Haven't been to conference, haven't joined a mastermind.

We're preaching here, but we're preaching to the converted.

So the next part we talked about in the pre pre event advertising is how to pick a great agency.

And I wanted you to talk a little bit about what went through your mind when picking us, and what makes a great agency from the client side, in dealing with an agency

Kendelle Pollitt: for us, picking an agency, I felt like it was a big step for us, because, I mean, I had met you, Jay.

So it was really for me, it was very helpful, because I was able to put a face, and not only a face, but a name that I trusted because I had seen you speak, and we had chatted a little bit about my firm before we we settled on you.

But of course, there's lots of agencies out there, but it was a big step for us, because it's number one, it's a big financial commitment, and we had been trying to haphazardly do a lot of this stuff on our own, but and doing it on the cheap, but what I found was again, hiring the PPC guys or the ads.

All of a sudden, I'm paying PPC, paying Google to do ads for pro bono lawyers.

That was obviously not the result I was looking for.

So working with an agency really has helped us.

It's just it's taken a lot of stress off my shoulders, because we have, you guys, have you've got your experts in each niche, again, of the digital marketing so we've got our content marketers, we've got our the digital marketers, we've got the PPC experts, and it's all working with One Agency.

And then, of course, we've got our account manager.

Who's my account manager is Joe Doyle, and Joe's the one who makes it all come together and works with me every day, and, of course, grants great too.

So that's the thing I like about an agency, is that I only need to work with one, one entity, and then I get all of these services, and the quality is great as well, right?

Because I don't necessarily know, or it takes me a long time to figure out what's going on with why are we getting so many phone calls people asking for pro bono lawyers we don't really understand and but with an agency, there's a lot of checks and balances, and that I find as well, because there's so many different people working together to create our digital marketing footprint.

And so that's what I found.

I think the best is there's checks and balances.

I enjoy having you pop in every now and then and see how things are going.

And also, I find our account manager is very receptive and eager to help and respond to any questions that we have.

So from my perspective, that's what the that's a really great thing about working with an agency, particularly your agency.

Jay Berkowitz: Thank you so much.

That's awesome.

I also wanted to share it from the other side, because I touched on this a minute ago.

It's like the clients that we deal with make a huge difference in the success that they get when they're a great client.

And sometimes it's simple things like showing up, and I know that shouldn't be so complex, but we have a monthly performance meeting, and some of the clients are notoriously late or notoriously missed meetings or cancel at the last minute.

And it's a subtle thing, right?

But I was also a director of marketing for McDonald's and Coca Cola and sprint, and I had a bunch of agencies calling on me, and some of the agencies had their act together, and they showed up and they were ready, and they had they were on time and on budget, on their project projects and stuff like that.

And so we always try and show up ready.

We've got a report, we've got a PowerPoint, like a Google Slides, so that we try and respect the client's time, so we're, like, super organized and ready to go, but by the same token, the client, if the client shows up 10 minutes late and we have a 30 minute meeting, guess what?

They got 20 minutes of time to talk about their performance and what we're doing next.

And so something on the agenda is not going to get covered, right?

So it's pretty basic, show up, and then the next thing is track and report.

So we give like we talked about earlier.

We give Kendelle's team all the calls, all the chats and all the form fills, and then they have to go in and just take 510 minutes and tell us which one's converted into clients.

And then we give that feedback to our SEO and our Google team, and they figure out like what's working.

And then we can do more of what's working and less of what's not working.

But again, the client has to be on their numbers.

Great intake is not really an option anymore.

What I mean by that say.

Answering the phone professionally, having showing empathy and being able to sell you just you gotta, like Kendelle said, You gotta take the name, phone number.

You've gotta try and get a meeting with those folks, but and not let them call three other lawyers, because your odds just went down if you have the empathy and the professionalism, and if necessary, get them on the phone with an attorney.

Great intake is going to make a huge difference.

Like 50% you're going to you're going to get 50% more cases if you really nail that.

And we've done some webinars on intake.

If you want to learn more about that, have an open openness to testing best practices.

And what I mean by that is we, when we discover something like the first time I discovered AI chat intaker that we have on our website, I tested it by myself first.

Then I tried two or three clients who I know like to test new things once we started recommending that, or any other software that we discover, or new systems, when we say it's working for three or four other law firms.

Some people are like, okay, great, let's try it.

And some people just have that hesitant mindset.

But when we say something's working better than something, you have to trust your professionals.

And if you don't trust your professionals, and we're bringing like data to the party, you're missing out.

Have good case management technology.

Run your business like a business.

We're running the EOS operating system, and a lot of law firms aren't.

You don't have to run Eos, but you have to have a leadership team, regular meetings, track your numbers, and have an organizational chart and a business plan.

And we do a business planning process every year, an annual business planning process, so we, if the client doesn't have, like, the marketing piece of the business plan, figured out, we're going to do that with them, and then have a scorecard to track your numbers.

That's what we find makes a great client.

And the clients who basically have their act together and run their business like a business and show up on time, but those are the clients that we grow with and have success over time, and they're growing, and the clients that really can't get their act together, can't answer the phone.

Guess what?

They blame us, and they don't get great results.

But I think you can tell from my passion about the difference between winning and losing, right?

Anything else you'd add to that?

Kendelle Pollitt: No, I think, I think that's just, we do take these meetings with you guys seriously, right?

Because we're paying, we're paying you a fee to help us and help us do our business better, and so we make it a priority, really.

And there's always other things.

This is the thing about the business of law is that the law part always feels more important, and there's always law that wants the law part wants to interfere with the business part.

And so it's a matter of having that discipline to really say, Okay, no, if I can't have the clients, if I don't have the clients that I want, need and best serve, then I'm not really doing law anyways.

So making that time and putting in that commitment and effort, and also always realizing that we're learning and growing and evolving, and what works one month or one season or one year may not be working for you anymore, and always being open to adjusting that.

And one of the things I appreciate about working with you, Jay is that I talk to you about my business, and so we can I find I have a mentor in you as well in terms of, okay, this is what's going on.

I'm not really sure how to deal with this.

Do you have any ideas?

And that is something I really appreciate, and that is something that I find valuable.

Jay Berkowitz: Yeah, that's a great point.

And please anyone reach out to me, because I have a unique opportunity now that I've been doing this for God knows how long, 30 years, but I'm actively involved with a number of the other vendors in the industry, and so I spend a lot of time like I do a weekly podcast, and it's not subtle, but I'm interviewing like all the top people in the legal industry.

We do this monthly webinar.

So please reach out to me if you have any questions about technology, about Eos, about hiring.

I've got tons of great vendors and people that I've interviewed for an hour on my podcast.

So I know, I know they're really great, so please don't hesitate to ask, find someone you can trust.

So we're on to questions and answers, and I see a few questions coming in the chat.

Go ahead and in the Q A or the chat, or the LinkedIn chat, for those of you live on LinkedIn, hey to you all, and Elizabeth is going to grab the.

LinkedIn questions and pass them on to us.

The first question I see is from Colin, and he says, Are you doing anything specific to link the YouTube videos to Kendelle's site, such as embedding them there?

And the answer is, yeah, 1,000% that concept of cascading content.

So we start, we'll post the video on YouTube, and then there's a video section on Kendelle's site.

And then the videos are on Facebook, on on LinkedIn, on Twitter.

We use them in a newsletter.

We'll use them on Google Maps.

Google Maps, by the way, is, we didn't talk a lot about it today, but super important part of the SEO algorithm, and you want to be updating your Google Maps, getting reviews on a regular basis.

Super valuable, super important.

Anything you would add to that?

Kendelle Pollitt: Me, no, that's your domain.

Make it all happen.

Jay,

Jay Berkowitz: okay, great.

We've got a question from Josh on LinkedIn, what were the very first steps Kendelle and your team took to kick off this growth?

Was there a specific area you focused on first

Kendelle Pollitt: when I first thing I did was get a website.

When I first went out, I didn't even have a website, I think what I did so I got a website, spent a lot of time really getting that content up and going.

And there was a lot of little things that I did.

I think one of the things I did, quite frankly, was I joined Great Legal Marketing and I did their whatever process they had.

Basically what they did was they said, Okay, join this group, and then we give you tasks.

So you do tasks A, B and C, and then when you're done, you let us know and we'll send you a gift card.

And so I just did whatever they told me, and that's how it happened.

So some of the initial things that I did was send out what were called referral letters.

So I chose just 25 businesses that were near to me in terms of where my office location was.

I chose criminal lawyers, I chose counselors, I chose accountants, and I sent out these referral letters and said, Hey, I'm getting referrals for people who need services like you, I introduced myself, told them a little bit about myself, and I'd love to do coffee with you, or I'd love to get to know you.

And these were COVID days, right?

So I think it was a oom call at that was coffee over oom.

And that was really efficient, because again, what I find is small business owners.

We all want to support each other, and so that was a really big kickoff for me, putting together content, so doing the information marketing.

So when people come for an consult at my firm, they leave with information.

So if they're coming in to talk about child support, I've got handouts on the law and child support, they leave with a small gift.

They leave with confidence that they know they have been in the right place, because we do little things like little success cues around the office to let them know that we actually know what we're talking about, I think the referral letters, if you were to do pick one thing that would be the best, and then you've got to do the follow up.

The key is the follow up.

And it's the worst part.

It's the part that's the hardest.

It takes the most discipline.

But if you have a legal assistant, have your legal assistant get on your butt about it, and just go through with it, set the plan and follow through regardless, then you'll get there.

And

Jay Berkowitz: do you remember some of the things that we did together when you started working with us as an agency?

Kendelle Pollitt: I remember we had lots of meetings about my business and what we're looking for, and then just the content, like we just started getting out a lot of content, and again, it's just getting out the information for people.

I don't know, what am I forgetting?

Jay, it's been a while.

Yeah,

Jay Berkowitz: yeah, it's been a year and a half or so.

One of the things we do early on is we do a real deep dive SEO audit.

Because when we meet someone in the sales business development cycle, we're looking at the website from the outside in.

But once we become your partner and get access to your Google, there's a thing called Search Console, or Webmaster Tools, and it actually is a bunch of diagnostic that Google gives us on the website.

So now we're looking behind the curtain, if you will.

So we do a deep dive on that.

We look at competitors, what your competitors are ranking for, and find a whole bunch of keywords that we want to rank for.

You also had a pay per click campaign.

We didn't cover that, but we're getting a lot of great leads from the paid advertising as well Google Pay per click.

And one of the interesting things for.

Those of you in the United States, Canada hasn't launched local service ads or Google screen yet, so we don't have that little tool at our disposal.

But the Pay Per Click, therefore, is more focused in Canada.

So we do a deep dive audit on the SEO the pay per click.

We looked at your Google Maps, and typically there's some best practices that the previous agency didn't know about there's you can do 50 different things with your GBP Google business profile, to optimize it, to pick the right like a lot of people just have law, they don't even have the practice areas.

And you can designate, I think, six practice areas, so you're going to come up when people search for that type of law going out and looking at your link profile, who's linking to your website, and then we build a whole bunch of links.

We we have a list of a whole bunch of directories, and we search other associations and directories that link to the firm, and make sure the address is correct and all the information is correct.

A lot of times that's incorrect and changes, and Google's a computer, so everything's got to be super precise.

The first round for us is a lot of audit and best practices and cleaning up a bunch of stuff like that.

We the copy was very important, like we had to learn about your persona, and so we didn't nail it right out of the gate.

And then what we did is we had the writer and the editor on a call and interviewed Kendelle for about an hour and a half and had a whole bunch of questions.

And then I think the we got our messaging a lot better after that.

Kendelle Pollitt: Yeah, for sure, in the beginning, yeah, it was okay.

I needed to do a lot more editing and things like that, whereas now my the editing is almost it's very nominal.

It's very nominal.

So it took a while, and I think too to keep in mind, I think again though this goes from as your firm grows and evolves, your marketing needs grow involved, right?

So when I first started, it was just me and a legal assistant, and the referrals were enough to just get me going.

But then, as you grow, things need to become more and more sophisticated, but certainly getting those and you need to make sure your marketing grows with you, as opposed to holding you back.

And that was one of the things that struggled.

We've struggled with actually, as a firm, and for me personally, because I can get all these ideas, but then I can't implement them, and then I'm also my my knowledge and expertise, so to speak, is in law and not in marketing.

So it was really helpful for me to have you guys do all these things that I knew about, like landing pages and getting all the service pages up and going and all these things.

And it was really nice, because the service pages, they just happened, and they were bang on right.

And so it was all these things on my to do list that I knew didn't know about.

Jay Berkowitz: I want an agency to write internal pages for my website.

Because the worst thing for tangled rules is like, when we try and do our own stuff, we're like the shoemakers.

Children have holes in their shoes.

Yeah, the last thing, the last client that gets attention is me.

Here's a question from Carrie Kendelle, what specific marketing move made the biggest difference in helping you grow your family law firm so quickly?

How can other attorneys apply that to their practice

Kendelle Pollitt: specific marketing move, there isn't one.

There is no golden hammer that you can just hang bang on the table and poof, you've got growth.

I think the thing is, you know, align yourself with partners who have the same values as you and really understand what your vision is, and have people help you, because you can't, you can't do it all yourself.

One of the books I read, and I can't remember the author now, that's just been instrumental, and just even the title, I remind myself of the title, and it's called, who, not how.

We don't need to be experts in every little aspect of our business, but we need to align with those who can help us get the things done that we need to get done.

Really, I think the biggest thing too, is hire before you're ready, because you're never going to feel ready.

So just make that jump, make that leap, make an informed leap, but still make that leap.

The biggest thing too, is acknowledging your comfort one.

Okay, well, I'm feeling nervous.

I'm feeling uncomfortable here, pushing through that comfort one, because if you don't push through your comfort one, you're never going to grow and hiring an agency, hiring people around you, I wish we hired 10 golden rules earlier.

Quite frankly, I think we'd be further along than we are right now.

Jay Berkowitz: Awesome.

Thank you so much.

You're welcome.

I'm being honest.

Do not house a great book.

It is.

Yeah, it's Dan Sullivan.

Man who's originally an American, but he lives in Toronto, and his business is out of Toronto, and he has an amazing mastermind.

But the concept's great.

It's instead of saying, I need to do this, I need to do this, always ask yourself, Who can do this?

Who can I get to do this?

And another I'll give you, if you haven't read Dan Martel's book, buy back your time.

Another great Canadian, he has a similar philosophies.

Just get great people to do the work for you, and don't feel like you have to do all the work.

All right, so we got time maybe for one more depends how long my answer is, Jay, what are the core systems or strategies you implement for law firms that consistently lead to rapid growth in leads clients and sign cases, instead of, like, core systems or strategies, I would say there's stuff that moves quicker and there's stuff that moves slower, and so what we recommend to our clients is you want to do both concurrently.

So for Kendelle, the pay per click is going to move faster because we can immediately like, if it's working and working, we define by cost per lead and cost per sign case.

So we measure like, if we spend, Kendelle Google account spends $3,000 how many calls did she get?

How many forms, how many chats?

So always measuring three intake sections and how many of those turned into signed clients.

So if she gets 100 leads, it's $30 a click on Google.

And if she signs 10 clients, and it's $3,000 spend, it's $300 cost per signed client.

And if that metric works for the firm, like if your clients are worth more, a lot more than $300 to the firm, we might turn the budget up a little bit next month, and the Pay Per Click works quickly in Kendelle, case, in Canada, in the United States, we're always going to target the local service ads the Google screened LSAs, so jet, we'd love it if a client hasn't turned on their LSAs, because Google generally gives a new LSA account a little bit of love, and it's going to send 3040, 50 leads over the first three or four months.

And if you answer the phone and you disposition the leads, and we show them how to use the software, the Google back end will generally get those leads on a consistent basis, month after month.

So the paid stuff can get the traffic relatively quickly, and then the SEO takes a little bit longer.

So we're going to start working.

I talked about optimizing the Google business profile, the Google Maps and the SEO.

We talked a lot about doing the videos, doing the content, doing the articles, and generally, that stuff's going to take three to six months till it starts slowly kicking in.

And you all saw the chart like over a year and a half candles gone from, I don't know, 30 or 40 keywords, to 500 keywords that are ranking on the top of Google.

So it definitely takes time.

But if we work concurrently at those things, it's beneficial, and also it's super beneficial too.

Like there's a subtlety to doing the videos and doing the content.

When people come to your website and they if they watch the videos and you answer the question, and they feel like they could trust you, they're going to call you up.

Same thing.

If they find an article, they read the article and you're answering the question, they're going to they're going to click on the chat or the call button on your website.

So producing the content helps your website convert, even though the SEO takes three, six months to start kicking in, really 12 months till it's really a power drive, I think we're right about time.

So Kendelle, thank you so much for doing this.

This was awesome.

Where can people find you, if they're live or if they're watching us?

Sometime in the future,

Kendelle Pollitt: you can find us at our website, peer, family lawyers.com P, I, E, R, family lawyers.com and or you can find us at our phone number, 604-560-8285, but thank you so much for inviting me, Jay.

It's been a lot of fun,

Jay Berkowitz: awesome, and Jay Berkowitz at 10 golden rules t e n Golden rules.com and I'm Jay Berkowitz on LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter, all the social media I try and get there before the other more important Jay Berkowitz is Dr Jay Berkowitz and Professor Jay Berkowitz.

And I apologize to those guys, because I've always got the Jay Berkowitz on Twitter and LinkedIn, but Kendelle, thank you so much.

This was awesome, and I look forward to our next meeting together and seeing you in DC for great.

Yes,

Kendelle Pollitt: see you soon.

Thanks.

Jay Berkowitz: Bye.

Bye.