This podcast is for general information only and should not be taken as psychological advice.

Listeners should consult with their healthcare professionals for specific medical advice.

Well.

Hello, I'm Amanda Keller.

And I'm Anita Demograph, and welcome.

To double a Chatter.

Anita is like a little startled Budgy because.

We are recording in a.

Different studio today, which is the studio that I do the radio show in, and you're seeing an on air flashing light in you are through.

I am so thrilled, you know, Like I know you do this like every morning, Amanda, But for me, I just feel so freaking cool that I'm sitting here recording with you and there's this little on air thing like going you know, beepepeep at me is it's I don't know.

And see the clock that's ticking above that.

That's called our pie hole clock for shut your pie hole.

So if you've talked too long, I'll look up at the clock and I'll say, Anita, shut your pie hole.

I will listen to you.

No, I won't.

No, it's got pie hole.

We thought we might kick off today looking at your comments, so many comments in the teacups about our podcast about the ongoing effects of COVID, and in particular, it seemed to be the discussion we'd had about.

Part of the ongoing is how we interact with each other.

We have stricter boundaries.

We now say my needs come first.

Is that okay?

It is changing the nature of friendships.

And there was a lot It was interesting because there was a lot of agreement about things have changed, and a lot of people had opinions about how they've changed.

And you know, little moments of me said, COVID changed the world, and not for the better.

We've forgotten how to interact, how to be friends, and how not to judge.

And I strongly believe that we're encouraged to stay that way by the powers that be.

It's not how human race works.

And it continues to make me sad and yes, even a little bit angry.

And I think that there is this sense that people are trying to figure out how to come back into the world.

And against the backdrop of some people saying COVID is still here, of folks, you know, it's still around.

So there's this.

And not even just because of COVID.

A lot of people are saying, I'm an introvert.

It suited me to now have to not be an outgoing person.

I love it, but this one we are told it's okay to ask for help, but when you do, you're met with sorry, I've got too much of my own stuff going on.

This is that dilemma of us saying I can't help you, and as my cup is full.

This is the new trope of I need to put my boundaries in place before I can help anybody.

But is that how it goes?

As we said, it takes a village, but no one's prepared to be part of the village.

It's yeah, it really takes some effort.

And I'm you know, I wonder even about you know, sometimes I think, is it just that I'm getting older, that I have less energy, I don't want to go out as much, or is it that, you know, is there something else that's going on.

I think that there's a lot we have to kind of unpack around how this, you know, how we come back or or is this going to be the new normal or what's going to happen?

And I think it suits some who are the introverts, people who say I just want to sit at home and take and lick my wounds as it were, Pat my cat.

It suits some people but obviously doesn't suit others.

And what does it mean for society.

Well, you mentioned unpacking to a lot to emotionally unpack.

But as we come up to Christmas, Anita unpacking, gifts, gift buying, regifting, let's talk about that now laughs.

I mean, why we were discussing what today's podcast would be about.

You said, you know what, let's talk gifting and regifting.

And to you, there are two very different topics.

Vary and there's I think maybe even a changing perspective of about about how the ritual of gifting and regifting goes.

So I would really like to start with some research that I was reading about gifting.

And this is by again a fellow and his fellow researchers called Jeff Clark, and he and Santa and Santa.

Yeah, Santa was one of the contributors.

Yeah, just so we're clear, hmmmm.

But what he talks about is the misaligned perspectives in gift giving.

And what he really says is that often the giver focus on that moment of giving.

So if I give somebody a gift, I'm looking potentially for it to be really impressive, or I'm looking for your delighted reaction or something that's going to be surprising.

And so the perspective of the giver is quite different than the recipient, who tends to focus on their use or enjoyment over time of a gift.

So I'm as a giver, Amanda, I would be looking at you know, surprising you or something in that moment, but you would be going, there'd be the moment, but you'd be thinking, how am I going to use this?

So and the other piece is that that people tend to go and want gifts that are explicitly asked for.

So I would like, this.

Is that new?

Well, it's it's interesting.

I don't know if it's new, but I think that maybe the newness is in that we feel more comfortable in asking wow.

And what I really liked there was this I'd heard about this couple who would have like a little gift, like a little shared document that they had, and the guy was a real tech nerd, and so when he wanted some tech thing, he would say, I want this particular thing.

Because it was very like if you'd gotten him like a model down, he wouldn't have been happy with it if you'd gotten a different type of thing that maybe did something.

Saying I want a computer, but he wanted a particular kind.

Of a thing.

Yeah.

Absolutely, And it would be like if you were a video gamer that he wanted a particular game, not just you know, maybe not Mary Okart or something like, he wanted something that was going to be very specific.

And it would be like if I want to be of jewelry, you know what kind of jewelry would I be looking at?

Like it's so they have a list that this couple shares and the surprise comes in, I'm going to choose when I'm going to give that gift and so when, yeah, like the when of it so and like it would be like if it's Christmas is coming up and you've got five things on your list, you could you could choose what to give and.

It's still a bit of a surprise.

There's a bit of a surprise still there, but you kind of know, like as the giver that it's going to be something that you know that the recipient wants, you know, because it's their choice, like it's their idea about what they want, and so they just kind of keep up.

You know, listing that that that that those ideas so that there's always something to give.

So it's interesting because is that mercenary not even mercenary or is that appropriate?

Like cost of living stuff these days?

Don't waste your money on something that I'm not going to love?

Is that kind of the thinking?

Yeah?

Yeah, and you know, and I think just the understanding of that misaligned perspectives.

Like I'm you know, if I'm giving a gift, I want to make sure that it's creative and delightful and all those kinds of things.

But maybe the person I'm giving it to wants something that's way more practical.

So having that conversation and communication, should we.

Communicate or is that the nature of what a gift is?

Because what you're saying is very interesting, is that someone gets there's a physiological response to giving the gift.

It shouldn't be overlooked either.

No, it's not just about you giving something that someone wants.

But that's what I want is your delighted response as the gift giver.

Oh, I should therefore tell you what I want so.

You'll get that and then I'll be delighted.

Like maybe I like it's it's It's so interesting because when I was reading this research, I was thinking about my husband, who I'm kind of a practical gift giver, Like if if I know that he wants something, I will get that and and he's like, you know, so I'll say what do you want and he'll go, oh, just you know, surprise me.

He wants that surprise.

So he's flying in the face of this research.

He reads a lot of pressure.

Surprised me.

Yeah, And and I mean really he's the guy that if he wants something, he will go out and get it for himself.

So and he has very specific wants as well.

Like you know, if I went out and said, you know, recently we got him a new bike, that was it's a beautiful bike.

But if I had gotten something that was, you know, like, surprise, honey, I've got you this other bike that didn't do might of sponge.

Yes, it's yeah, and it's you know, it's it's too speed and it's got a you know, banana seat on it.

Like he would have probably looked at me and gone, yeah, surprising, but but not it wouldn't have meant what he really wants in the long term.

So it is about communication or about knowing the recipient well enough.

What about what he buys you?

Do you want to receive practical gifts or do you like the fruit fruit?

That's a really good question.

I think I like.

I think I like the practical gifts.

And the other thing about this this research, it was talking that recipients often don't want like like material things that they're actually looking for those experiences.

I love the gift of travel, of time together, of you know, doing those kinds of things.

So we bought each other Japanese head massages last Oh.

Those are good.

Yeah, good.

But we've also you know, made some decisions over time like let's go and do this trip, or let's do you know, let's find some time away, and that to me feels like to me, that feels like a gift.

Yes.

Yeah.

And people these days are saying, you know what, don't buy me anything, and they actually mean it.

When your partner says that to you, don't believe a word of it.

But I do think that as friends, as we get older, don't buy me anything because there's a lot of anxiety around this time of year.

Oh are they going to get me something?

I mean, I have to get them something, And there's rather than it being a delight, it's an anxiety moment.

And there's also this kind of unwritten thing about like, if I get you something that is worth an amount of dollars, do you have to get something that you know is kind of relatively equipped?

But how would you know until you've given it.

Imagine, you know, the first year of a relationship, how stressful.

What level of gift do you go?

My friend George tells me that he and his partner Derek had been together for ten years, and Derek bought him a ring that was beautifully engraved, and he'd bought him a pair of socks.

You know, it's pen.

It is that you just don't know what.

So they've been together, as I said, for ten years, so it can happen, that the ambush can.

But it's also you know, that idea about I'm going to go and get you a lovely vacuum cleaner or a blender.

You know that's practical, but that would not be an okay gift for me.

My grandmother was a very practical woman, but even we thought that was hilariously horrendous when her husband, my grandfather, when he brought for her an iron and the wrapping was just his belt tied around it.

Oh they were both bushies.

You know.

They weren't into the fru thru in any way.

But even I thought that was a step too far.

Yeah, that was would like a hit in the mouse.

That was definitely hit in the mouse.

I used to work with a man who it was his wife's birthday, and he quite a significant birthday.

He decided to buy his wife a convict brick because he found it fascinating.

He was from the States, so the idea, working in Australia, to buy her a brick that came from a building that had been built by convicts.

And I said, is that all you're getting her?

Because she would open it up and see a brick.

And that was his idea of what was an intriguing gift to give as.

For him, like it was something that he found amazing.

Or that he wanted her to find amazing.

Ye, falling into what you're talking about.

He wanted her to have that reaction to what he'd bought.

He came back after Christmas and said to me, thank you.

I also included a necklace.

Few Oh no kidding, few, I mean kidding.

I've got to say that you and Horley over the years have bought each other some very unique gifts.

Harley's a good gift buyer.

He's a very good gift buyer because he appreciates the quirk as well, whether it's a piece of jewelry or something he's seen.

He likes trawling eBay and so I've received cake plates that say welcome to our mobile home and things like that from the fifties, from the States.

Beautiful.

Yeah, so quirky stuff that he knows I will like.

But it's an interesting idea too that you and I have spoken about this on this podcast as well.

And the conversation a lot of our friends are having is we're all trying to live more lightly, to not have loads of stuff, and that's where this becomes hard to Peter walshwatze to it in the living room, who used to be Oprah Winfrey's declutter TV guy.

He says, you don't have to keep the douna to honor the gift.

You can just cut out the doner cover because that's where it might be with the emotion lies.

You don't have to keep everything, just honor the emotion.

But I would, which brings us to the regifting.

I don't think I can regift because I feel I have to keep everything.

I know families to boxing days straight back to cash in or to change what they've been given.

I wouldn't dare if you want to give me something, I think that's lovely that you think I'd like that, that's part of the charm of what you've given me.

Well, I know, when Emma and I got married, we got twenty three, count them, twenty three crystal balls?

So did I?

Did you?

Not twenty three?

But that was the gift of our year, gift of.

The Oh my god, I don't know what we were like.

We were not crystal ball people.

We were not the people who were going to have little candy on our little end table with yeah or Paul Poiri in them.

We were just were not those people.

And so we, like Emma and I, locked to each other and we returned as many as we could, and then we regifted some of them, you know, because I'm sure that there's probably still crystal balls being regifted almost forty years later.

Yeah, it was.

It was an impossible choice, but a we didn't have the place to store them.

But it was also like that wasn't us.

See where do you shop and go?

Where the emotion override that someone's given you this for a gift.

Having a look at this, there's a good housekeeping have rules of regifting which are fascinating.

Can I run you through that?

Police?

Do?

Okay now?

According to an article by Frankie Magazine, will start here, there are only two kinds of presents that get regifted, the extremely good ones and the ones that make you go meh.

The crystal bowls, crystal balls were mere.

Regifting isn't automatically bad, they say.

When done thoughtfully, it can be sustainable, economical, and considerate.

But done poorly it can offend.

That's this whole story in a nutshell.

So let's see what Good housekeeping says.

The lists of rules regift only if the item is in its original packaging with all its parts.

A rumpled box or missing manual means chuck at the skip.

Oh.

The recycling part of me hurts to hear.

That, or or claim that pass it along, but say you recycling?

Yeah you don't need it, Yeah you could don't need it, Yeah, shout this.

Yeah.

Don't regift a handmade gift if someone has made it, especially for you.

It's off limits.

But what happens, Like Peter Walsh, if you've got five thousand things in your cupboard that have been made for you, maybe you don't regift.

What you do?

Oh, that's right out of your suburb to donate?

Like what if?

What if you donate and it turns up in your local vinish all your friends go out?

That would be really hard.

I think, I think it.

God, you're a gift maker.

You make a gift maker.

I don't think I could ever pass the beautiful thing you gave me a few years ago, which was the knitted tea cozy shaped like a vagina.

Yeah, well god no, But what would you do with it?

You imagine sing that in the window at venice?

Yeah?

Maybe a hate.

Well this leads to this bit avoid regifting within the same social circle, especially when someone knows the original giver or interacts with them.

So if you give me a present, I can't give it to someone in our book club because that's just too close an association.

But if you were all really good friends, could you do that?

Could you?

Could I do it and say Anita gave me this, I have no use for it.

Yes, of vagina tea podcast that's right?

Or would you like you could come to me and say, I've got this.

You know I've got I've got sever all vagina you know, tea Cozy's.

Can I give this?

Can I give one of them away?

I think that's fine.

I think that's fine.

I know a woman who, when she had a baby, was given stuff by her sister in law.

The sister in law also gave stuff to another family member.

My friend packaged it all up and handed it back when she'd finished.

The other recipient sold the stuff on Facebook marketplace where this original person who gifted this stuff.

And I don't know what the arrangement was, is you give it back when you finished or whatever, but I think there'd been unwritten law is don't sell it.

Yeah, don't sell it.

That's don't sell it.

How about this one?

Only regift if the item is brand new, even one where disqualifies it unless disclosed.

I imagine I.

Would imagine company's onneys you can have it.

But I mean I can imagine saying I've tried this, you know it doesn't suit you know, like like you know, would you wrap it up.

And put it under the tree as a gift.

God it depends on like a lot of these when I'm thinking about my answers to these is a lot of it is depends on who, it depends on what it is, and it depends like a lot of it really depends on the nature of the relationship, because I would be happy, like you know, like I might say something about, like, I've got this thing, I've I've used it once, but I thought of you, and I actually think it suits you better like I would, and then.

You would have you to wrap it up and put it under.

Their No, but I would, and I would.

I would be okay if you came back to me and said, oh, not me either, you know that would that would be It's different.

I think that's okay.

Yeah, it does say here check for monograms or hidden notes.

You hear about this a lot.

The original gift giver may have monogrammed the glasses or put a note in check that that's not in there.

How insulting to open a thing and it's a monogram to the previous, to.

The person who's thinking of you.

Yeah, yeah, my.

Close personal friend gift.

Only if you know the recipient would genuine like it.

It should be something that you would buy for them.

Yeah, that's that practicality thing I think is that don't give them something that you think might be impressive or that you're.

Just trying to move along.

Yeah, elevate the presentation, regift it sorry, rewrap it nicely, make it look intentional, not just offloaded.

Be upfront with people close to you if relevant.

Example, I'm giving you this, as you said, from my own collection, because I think you will love it.

If the recipient questions the origin this is interesting, tread carefully.

You don't have to reveal everything according to these rules with good housekeeping, but decide your comfort level.

Oh that's good, isn't it?

That is good.

It's the Betty Krocker lie.

You know if someone comes over and you say, I've made this from scratch and they say, really, what's that?

What's that spice in it?

And you kind of go and make it up, and then you get further and further into the lie and it's too late to say it's a packet mix.

It's a small lie that starts as a little fib and suddenly it's too big.

This could up being one of those.

Really good yeah.

And this is where that communication comes in, is that if you are going to regift something.

I think you need to be willing to have that conversation with the recipient and why, like, you know, if I do you know, even I'm thinking about the crystal balls that we didn't really kind of give them away to our friends who weren't.

Also getting married.

Now, yeah, like we had to kind of we kept kind of a store of them for those situations where you know, we felt as though we could give them away.

It's yeah, and we donate a lot, but you know, like it was one of those situations where I don't think would you regift to somebody that you didn't know.

See salad, A big crystal bowl could be a good one.

If you're invited somewhere and you have to take a gift and you don't know them very well, that would be a good idea to take one of those.

Yeah.

Yeah, maybe having a little store of just generic stuff, stuff that you going to use and haven't used.

I think that might be.

Okay, how about this, but this is do your homework.

Keep a note of who originally gave it to you if you plan to regift, so you avoid passing it back to the same person.

Oh yeah, that would be a that would be kind of a yeah.

He's a good one.

I avoid regifting something that you got for free.

It tends to come off as cheap.

So if you've got a promotional item.

If I gave you gold FM mugs and said I bought these for you and Anita.

Wasn't that what I got last, I think you'll find I paid good money for those.

But you, I mean, I've got to see, Amanda, you get some good swam I do.

I spend a lot of money on face creams, and so when they give me little trial things to try, I say, I've got a scraggy friend who might like some of these.

I love those.

Yeah, those are the best.

I mean, I bought those and package them up for you for Christmas.

Remember, you'll consider it a gift.

This is good here, hmm.

If you receive a gift, If you receive a regift, except graciously assume good intentions.

Absolutely, phrase is absolutely yeah.

I mean, and we don't know, like unless we ask, we don't know what the intention of somebody regifting something to you.

I mean, even if it was something that you had given to the person and they're unknowingly regifting it back to you, how do you, like, I think that you need to be gracious.

You know, even though there might be hurt feelings that I thought you'd like this and are giving it back.

That's what you mean about communication.

Yeah, you can't say you can't open a present and evaluate instantly how you Yeah, you can't tell someone how you feel about it.

No, No, And I you know, like I think that we all know that face where we open up a present and it's not the thing that we want, like like my easybeae oven you know that I really really really wanted.

But I mean that face that you have to put on where you say, ah, it's just what I want, Thank you so.

Much, shower cap everything I've dreamt of.

Absolutely, although I was hoping for a Ferrari.

But it goes back to what you said.

There are two feelings here, the original giver and the recipient.

And a final thing they say here, don't cheapen the act of gift giving.

Gifts are meant to show generosity and thought, not thrift disguised as kindness.

Oh that's a good one.

I've got to say.

I have.

I'd like to ask you because as Christmas is coming up, I'm thinking, like in Canada, it was such a big thing.

It was winter and it was you know, there was a you know, more family around and all kinds of things.

And I used to really get into the holiday season.

And it's weird being in Australia around Christmas.

It's not used to it yet.

I'm not.

It's twice almost twenty years and I'm still not quite used to it.

And I find always surprises me come December first, and I'm like, I'm often scrambling for presence, and you know, it feels less planned somehow, Like how like is Christmas?

Does it feel planned and stuff?

For you?

Like, well, that's my markers would be different to yours.

Yours would be the change of seasons and the coldness and the so mine are what I've always grown up with.

When you see in the butcher's shop window a bit of spray painted snow and eat it.

That's I'm the.

Worst sounder on a on a on a surfboard or something.

Actually.

Yeah, so our markers for this time of year are different.

What you would see for you would be cozy, warmth family.

Us it's kicked back, relaxed family.

Yeah, we always say relax And for most of the women it isn't now.

I discussed that before.

I'm already thinking about where do I order prawns?

I have to buy prawns.

I won't have to Yeah, And I just think we're going to be at home this Christmas.

I'm going to visit my dad beforehand, and Lima and Jack are coming up to visit my dad, but at home, and I want to make it special for Harley, and I want to make it special for the boys.

M M.

So I'm asking you to go and get the prawns for me because I can't be asked.

No, you don't want to stand in that line.

I'd like you too.

That's our seasonal marker ANDEDA when a friend stands in line for the browns.

That's right.

Merry Christmas, my friend, that's your gift.

But I'll stand a line for you.

Harley once remembers we're up at the main shopping center.

It was two days before Christmas or something stupid, and some family was lining up to pick up this seafood and the little kid said, but mom, why are we doing this now?

And every single person said, yep, yep, why we're all doing this now?

Oh it's I have stood in line a couple of times, and it's it's it really is a funny tradition.

Yeah, Yeah, that's part of the tradition, isn't it.

Yeah, you can't order it all online.

No, I'm no closer to knowing what I'm going to give you for Christmas.

But I do have a crystal bowl with your name.

Because I gave it to you.

Your initials were Honor.

Actually get to our glimmers less I know you've got a big one.

I've got a couple of Yeah.

My glimmer actually is about my dad.

Dad has recently moved into a nursing home.

He's ninety one and until recently he was just living on his own, taking care of himself.

But meals were being delivered for him, and he wasn't taking his medication when he should have.

And it's much easier for everyone involved.

And I'm so grateful to my brother because he's in Brisbane and he is overseeing all Dad's care.

And Dad is actually in the same place that his parents were, and so I have such memories of visiting my grandparents towards the end of their lives in this same facility.

And Dad's only moved in recent weeks, but when I say to Dad, how's it going, he said, oh, the food here is marvelous.

I have such a flashback to my grandparents, who I really feel they chose optimism.

They were a duo that just chose optimism.

And I remember hearing them saying, oh the food here is marvelous, and in a blink of a night, it's my dad.

Oh, I've got to stop crying on this podcast.

I saw this amazing quote the other day that I just where is.

It as you're looking for?

That?

Is this the couple that got he got her of the iron?

Yes?

Oh gosh, yeah, that would be choosing not to hit them with their Absolutely, yeah.

You know that.

But they just got on with it.

They're old, as I said, old bushies, and they worked on properties all around Queensland and they just got on with it.

And so my grandmother was so happy she didn't have to do the cooking and the food was lovely and they loved it.

I saw this quote from Voltaire as I Want to Do, or maybe I read it in Dolly magazine, I can't remember, and it said, the most important decision you can make is to be in a good mood.

Oh absolutely, and it.

Is a decision, isn't it.

And that's what we need to be reminded of.

We can choose these things, but their natural disposition was that.

And to hear my dad say those same words is a bittersweet but beautiful at the same time.

Oh that's oh and now.

Your big glimmer.

I'm actually taking two glimmers.

I know, I know what.

I've had an exceptional I've had an amazing week where I am now grammar to little baby Eva.

She arrived during the week.

It's so brilliant.

A little bit early, but she's perfect and she's oh, she's just absolutely lovely.

And in the monkst it all.

I got to go and take care.

We got to my husband got to take care of Logan for for the last five days, which has just been extraordinarily lovely.

So so we've just I've that has been an extraordinary glimmer.

And and my son Ben, who is the he's an advanced care paramedic.

He was asked as part of the Canadian search and rescue team to go over to Jamaica and he just got back after that big hurricane and he was the medic for the for one of the search and rescue teams there and and just listening to the extraordinary work he was doing there.

It just I am so proud of him.

He and and it is something that fills his cup, and it is it is.

Just terrifies your cup fills his?

Yeah, well, yes, and I am.

I am entirely confident in his ability to make safe choices.

So I'm good with that.

And he's going into like a difficult situation, so it's it's all of that.

But he's back, he's safe, and I'm so proud of him.

He showed me some of the photos that he sent going into areas that have been completely flattened now search and rescue and search and recovery.

That's tough, really tough, really tough.

And he was saying the striking to m yesterday and he's just back in Vancouver and he was just trying to get back into the schedule of you know, going for a run and doing the things that he does for his own self care.

And wow, it's yeah, I can't even I can't even put myself there.

You must look at him and think of the little boy that, oh, that you had, and one of these big things he's doing.

I'm just it is he has made such a good life for himself.

It is just I'm just yeah, extraordinary.

Well, Anita, a big week for the McGregor's absolutely yeah.

Okay, Well, if there's anything we've said that you would like to comment on, in terms of regifting, in terms of crystal fruit bowls, in terms of anything, please get in touch with us.

We'd love to hear Matty, Sure would love you have seen next week.

H