[SPEAKER_05]: This is Jockel, podcast number five, 25 with echo Charles and me, Jockel willing.

[SPEAKER_05]: Good evening, echo.

[SPEAKER_05]: So we are picking up from the last episode episode five, 24.

[SPEAKER_05]: We are continuing on with the book soldiers and soldiering by ultra bar ultra bar ultra bald wavel or wavel.

[SPEAKER_05]: If you haven't listened to five 24 yet, then go start there.

[SPEAKER_05]: Go back, listen to it.

[SPEAKER_05]: It'll give you a little more [SPEAKER_05]: leader in multiple wars on multiple fronts.

[SPEAKER_05]: He was also a military historian.

[SPEAKER_05]: He's a writer and you can get the rest of his bio in that last episode.

[SPEAKER_05]: But some of what he wrote was captured in this book, Soldiers and Soldering.

[SPEAKER_05]: So we are picking up where we left off on the last podcast.

[SPEAKER_05]: So let's get back to the book.

[SPEAKER_05]: Here we go.

[SPEAKER_05]: As you are aware, the relations between soldiers and statesmen, and by the way, the section is called the soldier and the statesmen, and really what it could be called when you read it, it could be called the soldier in the politician, which obviously has its own little drama wrapped around it.

[SPEAKER_05]: As you are aware, the relations between soldiers and statesmen were not too happy in the late war.

[SPEAKER_05]: Broadly speaking, the politician saw charged the soldier with narrowness of outlook and professional pedantry, while the soldier was inclined to describe many of his difficulties to political interference, and pedantry is like the rigid following rules.

[SPEAKER_05]: So you know, the politicians like you have to do this thing right here, and [SPEAKER_05]: And then the soldiers going, yeah, well, how are we supposed to get our job done when we're being so tightly controlled by the politicians.

[SPEAKER_05]: But it goes on to say here, political generals.

[SPEAKER_05]: are anathema to the British military tradition, which means detested by the British military, tradition like the political year about all of that guy's a politician.

[SPEAKER_05]: It was a negative thing, which is a weird thing, by the way, because let's face it.

[SPEAKER_05]: If you're a general or an admiral, you better be able to politically maneuver to get things done.

[SPEAKER_05]: Otherwise, you're not going to be able to get anything done, because it's all done through political maneuvering.

[SPEAKER_05]: But of course, it's a derogatory term, [SPEAKER_05]: Right?

[SPEAKER_05]: Yet, and it goes on to say here, yet most of the best British commanders had political experience.

[SPEAKER_05]: Cromwell was for many years a member of parliament before he took to soldiering.

[SPEAKER_05]: Marboro of whom we have just spoken had far more experience of political intrigue than a military service when he began his career as a general.

[SPEAKER_05]: Wellington had been a member of both Irish and British parliament.

[SPEAKER_05]: So you're talking about these leaders, they're a bunch of politicians.

[SPEAKER_05]: The relations, fast forward a little bit, the relations of that great and wise man Lincoln, he's talking about President Lincoln, with his generals, are well worth study.

[SPEAKER_05]: Having after many trials found a man whom he trusted in grants, so Lincoln fired a bunch of generals before you laid it on grant, who got the job done.

[SPEAKER_05]: he left him to fight his campaigns without interference.

[SPEAKER_05]: I'm going to read to you an extract from a letter written by Lincoln to one of his generals, I think will show you his quality.

[SPEAKER_05]: And so this is a letter from Abraham Lincoln to Joseph Hooker, fighting Joe Hooker.

[SPEAKER_05]: who was who lost the battle at Chancellorsville.

[SPEAKER_05]: He was replaced by Mead, who won the Battle of Gettysburg.

[SPEAKER_05]: Hooker was like a brash kind of boozer type guy and there's a story that hookers like prostitutes.

[SPEAKER_05]: are called hookers because of this guy because he had like a band of hookers of prostutes that went with him when he rolled.

[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_05]: So again, and as I research that, our boy, our boy, JD, as you know, he's told me that story a bunch of times like hookers.

[SPEAKER_05]: You know what I mean?

[SPEAKER_05]: So but as I researched it more deeply, it may or may not be true.

[SPEAKER_05]: Okay, there there there there there is Yousage of the word hookers to describe prostitute's proudness, but he definitely popularized it All I should say it looks like he definitely properly popularized it so this is Abraham Lincoln He's gonna give command of the army of the Potomac to hooker and here's what he said [SPEAKER_05]: I've placed you at the head of the Army of the Potomac of course I've done this upon what appears to me sufficient reason and yet I think it is best for you to know that there are some things in regard to which I am not quite satisfied with you.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's pretty.

[SPEAKER_05]: This is like just in the clear.

[SPEAKER_05]: This is your the president of the United States and you've got to got you're trying to get somebody to win this war for you and it's not been happening.

[SPEAKER_05]: And so now you've got to roll the dice on this guy so you're like, Hey, this is what I like and this is what I don't like.

[SPEAKER_05]: I believe you to be a brave and skillful soldier, which, of course, I like.

[SPEAKER_05]: I also believe you do not mix politics with your profession in which you are right.

[SPEAKER_05]: You have confidence in yourself, which is a valuable, if not indispensable quality, so he's coming out of gate three positives.

[SPEAKER_05]: You are ambitious, which within reasonable bounds does good rather than harm, another positive.

[SPEAKER_05]: now it's about to shift a little bit.

[SPEAKER_05]: I think that during general burn sides command of the army, you have taken counsel of your ambition and forwarded him as much as you could in which you did a great wrong to the country and to a most meritorious and honorable brother officer.

[SPEAKER_05]: So when when burn side was leading the army, [SPEAKER_05]: Our boy Hooker, like, did interviews and disparage dib and say, yeah, Burnside doesn't know what he's doing.

[SPEAKER_05]: That type of thing.

[SPEAKER_05]: We said American politics all the time.

[SPEAKER_05]: Going on from Lincoln.

[SPEAKER_05]: I have heard in such a way as to believe it of you, you're recently saying that both the army and the government needed a dictator.

[SPEAKER_05]: Of course, it was not for this, but in spite of it that I have given you command, so he didn't agree with them.

[SPEAKER_05]: And I'm giving you this job, even though I don't, it's despite the fact that you said that.

[SPEAKER_05]: Only those generals who gain success can set up as dictators.

[SPEAKER_05]: What I now ask of you is military success and I will risk the dictatorship.

[SPEAKER_05]: So he's like, hey, leave you win.

[SPEAKER_05]: You could become a dictator and I'm willing to take that risk because we need to win.

[SPEAKER_05]: The government will support you to the utmost of its ability which is neither more nor less than is done and will do for all commanders.

[SPEAKER_05]: I'm much fear that the spirit which you have decided to infuse into the army of criticizing their commander and withholding confidence from him will now turn upon you.

[SPEAKER_05]: Dude, Lincoln just straight to the point.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, you talked amongst a shit about burn side and now you got to be ready because people are going to talk shit about you.

[SPEAKER_05]: I shall assist you as far as I can to put it down.

[SPEAKER_05]: So even though you did that, I'm going to try and help you out and I'm not going to put [SPEAKER_05]: Neither you, nor Napoleon, if you were alive again, could get any good out of an army while such a spirit prevails in it.

[SPEAKER_05]: So you talked so much shit about burn side that wouldn't matter if it was Napoleon, he couldn't have been successful.

[SPEAKER_05]: And now beware of rationalists, beware of rationalists, but with energy and sleepless vigilance, vigilance, go forward and give us victories.

[SPEAKER_05]: pretty good letterments John we probably need to dive into some more of our boy Abraham Lincoln fast forward a little bit [SPEAKER_05]: He says, doesn't that strike you as the letter that only a great man and wise man could have written?

[SPEAKER_05]: Lincoln did not find in fighting Jill Hooker the general he wanted because he eventually upfired.

[SPEAKER_05]: It was he less.

[SPEAKER_05]: It was you.

[SPEAKER_05]: Lizzy's S Grant, whom he eventually selected as Commander in Chief, and then he trusted him through thick and thin, though he grant suffered many reverses and had often very heavy casualties to a critic, to a critic who alleged that Grant drank.

[SPEAKER_05]: Lincoln replied by asking him to ascertain the brand of whiskey, so he could send a case to some of the other generals.

[SPEAKER_05]: Your boy grants a drunk.

[SPEAKER_05]: Well, what's he drinking?

[SPEAKER_05]: Let's send it to some of the other generals.

[SPEAKER_05]: This recalls the reply of George II to one of his ministers who described Wolf who took Quebec as mad.

[SPEAKER_05]: quote, I wish to heaven's, he would bite some of my other generals.

[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, those are good.

[SPEAKER_05]: Fast forward a little bit.

[SPEAKER_05]: That brings me back to the point I tried to make in my first lecture.

[SPEAKER_05]: This will be covered on the first podcast that it is knowledge of the mechanics of war, not the principles of strategy that distinguishes a good leader from a bat.

[SPEAKER_05]: And when he talks about the mechanics of where he's talking about logistics, basically he's talking about logistics.

[SPEAKER_05]: interchanged ability between the statesmen and the soldier passed forever I fear in the last century.

[SPEAKER_05]: The Germans professionalized the trade of war and modern inventions by increasing its technicalities have specialized it.

[SPEAKER_05]: It is much the same with politics, professionalized by democracy.

[SPEAKER_05]: So it used to be, you could get what you could kind of be both.

[SPEAKER_05]: Because war was like, hey, we got swords, we got bow and arrows.

[SPEAKER_05]: I can understand that.

[SPEAKER_05]: We got politics, which is politics.

[SPEAKER_05]: You got to go interact with other people.

[SPEAKER_05]: But then all of a sudden we got all these aircraft.

[SPEAKER_05]: We got ships.

[SPEAKER_05]: We got tanks.

[SPEAKER_05]: We got different weapons.

[SPEAKER_05]: We got artillery.

[SPEAKER_05]: You got to learn that becomes a trade and then you got politics Which becomes all of this You know who you know and networking and all of a sudden and they both became too big until they became specialized [SPEAKER_05]: No longer can one man hope to exercise both callings, though both are branches of the same craft.

[SPEAKER_05]: The governance of men and the ordering of human affairs.

[SPEAKER_05]: So it doesn't matter if you're a politician, and it doesn't matter if you're a general, it doesn't matter if you're the commanding officer, or the CEO of a company, or you're in charge of your family.

[SPEAKER_05]: What are you doing?

[SPEAKER_05]: You get the governance of man and the ordering of you of human affairs.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's what we're doing.

[SPEAKER_05]: and acquiring proficiency in his branch the politician has many advantages over the soldier.

[SPEAKER_05]: He is always in the field.

[SPEAKER_05]: While the soldiers, opportunities of practicing his trade in peace are few and artificial.

[SPEAKER_05]: So, politicians, every time they roll out, they're doing politics.

[SPEAKER_05]: They're doing oppressed conference, they're meeting with someone.

[SPEAKER_05]: So they're going to the thing.

[SPEAKER_05]: But, you know, as a soldier, you'll only get to practice war in war.

[SPEAKER_05]: Otherwise, just practice and this practice is few and it's artificial.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's fake.

[SPEAKER_05]: You're not really killing anybody.

[SPEAKER_05]: The politician who has to persuade and confute must keep an open and flexible mind, a custom to criticism and argument.

[SPEAKER_05]: The mind of a soldier who commands an obeys without question is apt to be fixed drilled and attached to definite rules.

[SPEAKER_05]: I will not take the comparison further that each should understand the other better is essential for the conduct of modern war.

[SPEAKER_05]: So, we get the politicians, it's actually saying this in a positive way, the politicians have an open mind.

[SPEAKER_05]: They can take criticism.

[SPEAKER_05]: They can adjust what their beliefs are.

[SPEAKER_05]: Whereas the soldier, they're like fixed and not changing their mind.

[SPEAKER_05]: And they're attached to the rules.

[SPEAKER_05]: And each one of them could learn a little bit from the other.

[SPEAKER_05]: We want to be able to be both those things.

[SPEAKER_05]: We don't have an open mind, but we got to also not to execute the thing.

[SPEAKER_05]: But how is this knowledge to be acquired?

[SPEAKER_05]: The only keys are a thoughtful study of the past.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's why we're doing this podcast right now.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's why we're reviewing this book.

[SPEAKER_05]: A receptive mind in the present and when the occasion comes, a patient understanding of each other's difficulties so understanding what makes it challenging.

[SPEAKER_05]: The soldiers app to disregard or underrate the statesmen's difficulties.

[SPEAKER_05]: So, you know, the soldiers like who what is wrong, why don't they just give us the money we don't we just give us the thing why don't they give us the go ad why don't they give us the executor why can't they change the rules for us.

[SPEAKER_05]: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, [SPEAKER_05]: I remember one of our present politicians giving an apt illustration of this tendency.

[SPEAKER_05]: He instanced a soldier's impatience at the slowness of a statesman to implement some political measure, which was agreed to be essential, say, compulsory service.

[SPEAKER_05]: If your greed has to be done, why not do it at once, as the soldier?

[SPEAKER_05]: The politician might retort thus.

[SPEAKER_05]: When you come to a river, when you come to a riverline defended by the enemy, which you must cross to reach the objective, do you assault it forth with?

[SPEAKER_05]: Of course not.

[SPEAKER_05]: The soldier will reply, it is essential to reconnoiter, to group the artillery.

[SPEAKER_05]: to construct bridges, to draw the enemy's attention away from the point of crossing, and so on.

[SPEAKER_05]: Just so says the politician, so must I prepare the public opinion and to dissipate objections.

[SPEAKER_05]: Drop a measure for which will be fair to all classes, a range for the medical examination of men liable, decide on exemptions, and so forth.

[SPEAKER_05]: So each one of these, the politician goes, why don't you just go, go, just hold the target.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's like, bro, we got things we got to figure out.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, that's a process.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's a process and we don't understand each other.

[SPEAKER_05]: And this is a, I was on Sean Ryan's podcast, and I went through this kind of the historical learning of languages for me, learning the enlisted frogman language, learning the officer language, learning the general and flag officer language, and being able to communicate and translate these things up and down across the chain of command.

[SPEAKER_05]: And then the next one up is like the political.

[SPEAKER_05]: What are they actually saying?

[SPEAKER_05]: All the politicians want this to happen.

[SPEAKER_05]: They can't say that.

[SPEAKER_05]: Here's what they're inferring.

[SPEAKER_05]: You've got to figure that out.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's the next level.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's what you're talking about here.

[SPEAKER_05]: War fast forward.

[SPEAKER_05]: War is not a matter of diagrams, principles, or rules.

[SPEAKER_05]: The higher commander who goes to field service regulations for tactical guidance inspires about as much confidence as the doctor who turns into a medical dictionary for his diagnosis.

[SPEAKER_05]: And no method of education, no system of promotion, no amount of common sense, ability is a value unless the leader has in him the root of the matter, the fighting spirit.

[SPEAKER_05]: the will to win.

[SPEAKER_05]: So, there is no textbook solution.

[SPEAKER_05]: This is something we learned from Hackworth, right?

[SPEAKER_05]: There's no textbook solution.

[SPEAKER_05]: You can look at the textbook.

[SPEAKER_05]: You can get some ideas for the textbook, but you gotta figure out the solution.

[SPEAKER_05]: You can't go to the field service regulations for tactical guidance.

[SPEAKER_05]: Maybe you can go there for guidance, but you can't get the answer.

[SPEAKER_05]: As one of them said, he's just talking about some various generals of the past, as one of them said no battle was ever lost until the leader thought it so.

[SPEAKER_05]: is not a good one.

[SPEAKER_05]: No battle was ever lost until the leaders thought it so when you defeated when you think you are.

[SPEAKER_05]: And this is the first and true definition of a leader never to think the battle or the cause lost.

[SPEAKER_05]: True.

[SPEAKER_05]: Now, what I put the word never on that?

[SPEAKER_05]: No, I wouldn't because, you know, you need to do an assessment sometimes.

[SPEAKER_05]: Hey, we're losing right now.

[SPEAKER_05]: We are not winning.

[SPEAKER_05]: You know, that's one of the things that I didn't, I've talked about in the Iraq War.

[SPEAKER_05]: No one was saying we're losing in like 2005.

[SPEAKER_05]: No one was like, oh, wait a second.

[SPEAKER_05]: An enemy attacks are up 300%.

[SPEAKER_05]: They're controlling certain territories of the country.

[SPEAKER_05]: And this is the United States of America.

[SPEAKER_05]: This is called losing.

[SPEAKER_05]: No one was saying that.

[SPEAKER_05]: No one was saying that.

[SPEAKER_05]: Everyone was like, oh, you know, we've got to be fine.

[SPEAKER_05]: There's a little uptick in some enemy attacks in that area.

[SPEAKER_05]: But we think it's just anomaly.

[SPEAKER_05]: They had all kinds of statistics that they would shape to make this story sound good.

[SPEAKER_05]: And the same thing we saw in Afghanistan.

[SPEAKER_05]: I wasn't in Afghanistan.

[SPEAKER_05]: But [SPEAKER_05]: You know, the reports were that the afghan troops are ready to control the country and everyone in the ground's like, no, bullshit, they ain't happening, we're not, they're not ready.

[SPEAKER_05]: They can't do it.

[SPEAKER_05]: And guess what, they couldn't.

[SPEAKER_05]: So there are times when we need to make sure that [SPEAKER_05]: We are allowed to say they were not winning and we need to adjust our strategy to do something different retreat get away So it's like is there essentially saying and just for clarification.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, so essentially one then if the leader [SPEAKER_00]: accepts the loss.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's when it's like kind of concrete in stone.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, he lost, but as long as he believes there's a fighting chance, they're gonna keep fighting until, yeah, until not.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so yeah, so you get a kind of like what like a weak metal leader, you know, so you know, get flustered or from, you know, kind of easy, then it's like, okay, then the team kind of be is that same way.

[SPEAKER_05]: And we go, yes.

[SPEAKER_05]: But we could pull historical examples where like people just, they give up to early and we also have historical examples where people give up to late and now we've wiped out whatever resources we could have saved for no reason.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: So we have to pay attention to these things.

[SPEAKER_05]: I understand.

[SPEAKER_05]: A fast forward a little bit.

[SPEAKER_05]: One word more.

[SPEAKER_05]: The Pius Greek, when he had set up alters to the great gods by name, added one more altar.

[SPEAKER_05]: It was to the unknown God.

[SPEAKER_05]: So whenever we speak and think of the great captains and set up our military altars to Hannibal and Napoleon in Marboral and such like, let us add one more altar to the unknown leader.

[SPEAKER_05]: That is, to the good company, platoon or section leader who carries forward his men or holds his post and often falls unknown.

[SPEAKER_05]: It is these who in the end do most to win wars.

[SPEAKER_05]: The British have been a free people and are still comparatively a free people.

[SPEAKER_05]: And though we are not, thank heaven, a military nation, this tradition of freedom gives to our junior leaders in war a priceless gift of initiative.

[SPEAKER_05]: This is the decentralized command.

[SPEAKER_05]: So long as this initiative is not cramped by too many regulations, too much formalism, we shall, I trust, continue to win our battles, sometimes in spite of our highest commanders.

[SPEAKER_05]: So this is very true, very true.

[SPEAKER_05]: The decentralized command, when you have [SPEAKER_05]: good sections leader squad leader's good platoon leader's good company commanders like despite being told to do dumb things they can still bring success and they do and they always have but that is decentralized command if a minute you take away that initiative and it's the same thing they can happen in a business like if you let someone some branch manager out there run in a store run in a project and you let them just make things happen if they don't that figure stuff [SPEAKER_05]: But the many of you start to constrain them, you sort of dictate to them and put restrictions on them.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's when problems happen.

[SPEAKER_05]: So you gotta give people the room to maneuver.

[SPEAKER_05]: That is decentralized command.

[SPEAKER_05]: Section here on military genius.

[SPEAKER_05]: It is only a short time ago that I happen to see Captain Ladell Hart's article in Strand Magazine of Last December.

[SPEAKER_05]: Ladell Hart who we've covered on this podcast, a bunch.

[SPEAKER_05]: Writing.

[SPEAKER_05]: Lidel Hart's writing is always a stimulant, often an irritant to military thought.

[SPEAKER_05]: I've only a small fraction of his great knowledge of military history, and I am writing with no time to refresh my rusty memory at military library.

[SPEAKER_05]: But the article has set me reflecting on the art of general ship.

[SPEAKER_05]: and on its most noted exponents, a subject on which I have already presumed to publish some views, and has prompted the following footnotes to the subject.

[SPEAKER_05]: So he's talking about LaDelle Hart, wrote about what military geniuses, and he's kind of riffing on that.

[SPEAKER_05]: Geniuses is a tiresome and misleading word to apply to the military art, and [SPEAKER_05]: if it suggests as many as it does to many, one so gifted by nature as to obtain his success by inspiration rather through study.

[SPEAKER_05]: So it's not that you were just born a genius, it's that you studied and you learned good generals unlike poets are made rather than born.

[SPEAKER_05]: Now do I agree with that 100%, nope.

[SPEAKER_05]: I agree with it, 50%, I agree that a good general is has to be born with some of the qualities of a good general.

[SPEAKER_05]: And then he has to be raised and nurtured with the qualities of a good general.

[SPEAKER_05]: And then he has to study.

[SPEAKER_05]: But he says, made rather than board and will never reach the first rank without much study of their profession, but they must have certain natural gifts.

[SPEAKER_05]: Okay, so he's agreeing with me.

[SPEAKER_05]: They must have certain natural gifts, the power of quick decision, judgment, boldness, and I am afraid a considerable degree of toughness, almost callousness, which is harder to find as civilization progresses.

[SPEAKER_05]: So even though he says generals are born not made, or sorry, made not born in his opening of this section He then goes on to say, but they got to have certain natural goods.

[SPEAKER_05]: So I don't know why he even said that first part Hey, what do you have to have you got to have the power of quick decision?

[SPEAKER_05]: You have to have judgment, which by the way like quick decision is not easy Having good judgment is very very difficult and I actually think you get good judgment more from your [SPEAKER_05]: education and your study, then you do you're not just born with good judgment, you learn it.

[SPEAKER_05]: So that's kind of a weird thing to call a natural gift.

[SPEAKER_05]: Boldness, that's a little bit of natural, and then a considerable degree of toughness.

[SPEAKER_05]: And again, you know, questionable whether you're born with that or whether it's something that you at least are able to grow.

[SPEAKER_05]: Um, the considerations which in my view to be taken into account in assessing the value of general are these, his worth as a strategist, his skills of tactician, his power to deal tactfully with his government and with allies, his ability to train troops or to direct their training and his energy and driving power in planning and in battle.

[SPEAKER_05]: So those are the key components for him.

[SPEAKER_05]: He says here, Liddell Hart in his article, touches very lightly on the difference between strategy and tactics, and seems to imply that with the increase in the size of armies and the battlefield strategy has gained in importance at the expense of tactics.

[SPEAKER_05]: I cannot agree.

[SPEAKER_05]: I hold the tactics, the art of handling troops on the battlefield is and always will be a more difficult and more important part of the general's task than strategy, the art of bringing forces to the battlefield in a favorable position.

[SPEAKER_05]: interesting concept, not sure I agree.

[SPEAKER_05]: If you are, if you are set up for success, strategically, you can still win with bad tactics.

[SPEAKER_05]: If you're set up for a lost strategically, your tactics may not matter.

[SPEAKER_05]: So it's a little bit of an interesting idea, but I don't think I agree with.

[SPEAKER_05]: But [SPEAKER_05]: I will say that if you do not have good tacticians on the ground, you can still fail strategically.

[SPEAKER_05]: Maybe that's his point.

[SPEAKER_05]: In the end, it is the result of the manner in which the cards are played or the battle is fought that is put down on the score sheets or in the pages of history.

[SPEAKER_05]: Therefore I rate the skillful tactician above the skillful strategist, especially Haymeu plays the bad cards well.

[SPEAKER_05]: Again, you can have cards that doesn't matter how well you play, and you still lose.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it feels like, and I don't know, maybe this is just a cement to...

different...

[SPEAKER_00]: But it's almost like...

the way it's reading to me, I don't know.

[SPEAKER_00]: It is that...

you can have the best strategy in the world, but your guys on the ground aren't...

if they're not getting it done, then it don't matter, because we ain't gonna get there kind of a thing.

[SPEAKER_05]: And by the way, if you have the best strategy in the world, and your guys on the ground aren't getting it done, was it really the best strategy in the world?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, right.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, if like you don't you didn't realize that they couldn't get him so yeah, yeah, I've always thought like when you guys introduced this idea of strategic [SPEAKER_00]: it was more of this all encompassing long-term big-bit just thing that's what it is yeah so and then it but before that I thought it was just oh this is just a method in where this philosophy this approach we're going to take to achieve victory I thought that's essentially what it is you know like I don't know jujitsu my strategy is [SPEAKER_00]: you know, to tire him out a little bit and then get on top and then grind them out for some points.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, that's a strategy right?

[SPEAKER_00]: I plan the long term, but it's the approach I take, you know, kind of a thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now, tactically, if you can't tire him out or if you can affect, you know, kind of a thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, then ultimately that would be a mismanaged strategy or a miss like calculated strategy I guess in a way Yeah, but you definitely as far as you're concerned that's all part of the strategy because it's just a long-term kind of thing Yeah, seems like a big picture kind of thing So maybe there's like a small difference there meaning like hey the strategy seems good on paper like this is a sound strategy right here Hey, you guys think you can do all yeah, I can do that can jump that wall.

[SPEAKER_00]: I can you know communicate with my guys I think we can do it [SPEAKER_05]: mean while they're maybe they're sloppy or so I don't know something like this you know but yeah maybe like I said maybe some antics but it felt like that's what he's meaning there which I think is kind of true in a way it is kind of true but I can put you you know I could let's put this way football you could have really skilled players in football better skills than the other team but I could run a strategy a game plan even plays [SPEAKER_05]: Like you could be that have the best arm, but I just keep playing running game, right?

[SPEAKER_05]: Bad strategy.

[SPEAKER_05]: Or I'm like, hey, our strategy is to throw the ball but our quarterback sucks, but I'm like, so our tactician can't execute and we lose.

[SPEAKER_05]: Because it's not because the tactician's bad, it's because I'm bad.

[SPEAKER_05]: Because if we had a freaking badass runner and we played a running game, we could win, but instead I'm too stupid and so I pick a bad strategy.

[SPEAKER_05]: So if I have an awesome quarterback [SPEAKER_05]: Strategically, we're gonna play a passing game, right?

[SPEAKER_05]: And we can win.

[SPEAKER_05]: But if I have If I say we're gonna play a passing game and I've got a crappy quarterback and no good receivers, are we gonna win?

[SPEAKER_03]: No [SPEAKER_05]: And strategically if I have a great quarterback with a great arm and two great receivers But I decide we're gonna run against a badass defensive team.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's a dumb strategy So this strategy matters more than the tactics now what he's saying to is like [SPEAKER_05]: I could say, hey, guys, we're running, but the quarterback call on the place on the field, and he, like, hey, boys, you go long, right?

[SPEAKER_05]: I'm going to, I got a good arm.

[SPEAKER_05]: We're going to take advantage of.

[SPEAKER_05]: So that sometimes the tacticians can win despite the strategy that's imposed upon them, but more often than not, the quarterback's getting told to run it.

[SPEAKER_05]: He believes that the coach sees something, and he doesn't.

[SPEAKER_05]: So he's trying to support the coaches' calls.

[SPEAKER_05]: So he's like, okay, well, we'll run it again.

[SPEAKER_05]: Tackled.

[SPEAKER_05]: We'll run it again.

[SPEAKER_05]: We'll run it again.

[SPEAKER_00]: Tackled.

[SPEAKER_00]: So tactics are essentially, like I said, you could call it procedurally part of the strategy.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: So like if the tactics don't fall in line with the strategy, that's the bad strategy.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's not.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's not that it's bad tactics, good strategy.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's the other way around.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like the quarterback to me was a great in it, by the way, where it's kind of like, yeah, like it seems like that's a good idea.

[SPEAKER_00]: They got weak, weak DBs, so let's let's pass.

[SPEAKER_00]: But meanwhile, I don't realize that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, my quarterback's arm is kind of off for me.

[SPEAKER_00]: And he reads new or something like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Or he seems on that fast.

[SPEAKER_00]: So you think given their defense, that's a good strategy.

[SPEAKER_00]: But you're unaware of your own capabilities as an offense.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's a bad strategy.

[SPEAKER_00]: Even though on paper you think like, oh no, it's the tacticians down there.

[SPEAKER_00]: They messed up the strategy.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no, no, they are part of the strategy.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, [SPEAKER_05]: Maybe he is.

[SPEAKER_05]: And if he's doing that, that's wrong.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's what.

[SPEAKER_05]: No offense to this guy's not here to defend himself.

[SPEAKER_05]: No, no, no, no, no, no.

[SPEAKER_05]: Ah, yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: So I would not agree.

[SPEAKER_05]: I rate the skillful strategist above the tactician.

[SPEAKER_05]: But the tactician, the tactics should drive the strategy to some extent.

[SPEAKER_05]: To some extent, like you just said, if we don't have a quarterback with an arm, why are we trying to throw the ball?

[SPEAKER_05]: That doesn't make sense, our tactics have to drive our strategies.

[SPEAKER_05]: Pushing forward here, it seems also that he who devises or develops a new system of tactics deserves special advancement on the military role of fame.

[SPEAKER_05]: All tactics since the earliest days have been based on evaluating an equation in which [SPEAKER_05]: Once a satisfactory solution has been found and a formula evolved, it tends to remain static until some thinking soldier or possibly civilian recognizes that the values of Y, XY and Z have been changed by the progress of inventions since the last formula was accepted and that a new formula and a new system of tactics are required.

[SPEAKER_05]: It may seem irrelevant to judge a general on his relations with the government or his power to deal with his allies, yet these are almost always important factors.

[SPEAKER_05]: And a general who cannot obtain the confidence of his government and persuade them of the soundness of his plans or dissuade them from unsound strategy or who quarrels with allies may forfeit both fame and victory.

[SPEAKER_05]: So if you can't get along with the leadership.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's it's gonna be a loss and if you can't get around with your along with your allies It's gonna be lost.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's just like you you got a great branch inside your company But you don't get along with the CEO It doesn't matter you're not gonna go to need or you don't get along with the other branches You're not gonna you're not gonna be a hero here [SPEAKER_05]: military history frequently points out how the training and experience of veteran troops has led to some surprising victories over numbers or circumstances.

[SPEAKER_05]: Let's talk about the importance of training.

[SPEAKER_05]: And a commander who is succeeded in training his troops to a high pitch deserves credit for it as well as the victories brings him.

[SPEAKER_05]: So yes, if you train your troops well and your victorious, you deserve credit for the training as well as the victory.

[SPEAKER_05]: Lastly, the energy, the driving power and will force of a commander is perhaps the greatest factor in all of military success.

[SPEAKER_05]: And he who has it in the highest degree establishes a claim to be enrolled among the great ones.

[SPEAKER_05]: So this energy to make shit happen is, as he says, perhaps the greatest factor.

[SPEAKER_05]: Now, here's, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, [SPEAKER_05]: totally agree with that.

[SPEAKER_05]: And I've known people leaders throughout my time who they haven't have used this term before you heard it.

[SPEAKER_05]: You heard me use this term before force of will.

[SPEAKER_05]: Like there is a force of will we are going to make this happen.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's what we're going to do.

[SPEAKER_05]: Here's the only caveat to that.

[SPEAKER_05]: Boy does it suck when someone's got a strong force to will and they're a shitty strategist or a shitty tactician because that happens.

[SPEAKER_05]: There are people that can do, they're so convincing.

[SPEAKER_05]: And so convicted about their beliefs and about making something happen that they can drive bad ideas.

[SPEAKER_05]: This is a horror, this is almost, this is almost a worst case scenario.

[SPEAKER_05]: I've known people that were so articulate and powerful when explaining, or tasking people, or arguing with people, they were so formidable that they would win arguments even when they were completely wrong, like, factually wrong.

[SPEAKER_05]: Imagine if someone came into this room right now and presented an argument to us that the sky was green and we lost the argument.

[SPEAKER_05]: you know what I'm saying like I've known people like that that are so freaking good so powerful so persuasive so so energetic so passionate that they're winning arguments about shit that they're totally wrong about it and so it's that's that's like a worst case scenario in my mind because they're unstoppable like they're unstoppable and they're just driving they're driving shit into the ground so we have to be very cautious [SPEAKER_05]: being persuasive and having energy is does not translate to being 100% correct.

[SPEAKER_05]: So we have to be very cautious of that.

[SPEAKER_05]: And unfortunately, generally speaking, people that have that skill, the part of it is because of their confidence, and that's why it leaks over into overconfidence, it leaks into arrogance, and now they're not listening to anyone.

[SPEAKER_05]: Can't even articulate it, you know?

[SPEAKER_05]: It's a very interesting situation and it's generally speaking doesn't end up well.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know what you're heard of, Dunning Kruger.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it always kind of like smells like that a little bit.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we're like the person who knows really like on a granular level about something, you know, they know so much about it that there's [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes, to the point where it's like, hey, it's not as simple as true or false.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, they know the nuance and all this stuff.

[SPEAKER_00]: So they can jump on there and just start saying, hell yeah, and go, you know, in this unilateral direction, and then, you know, everyone's all like convincing stuff like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: They don't really do that because there's more to it than that.

[SPEAKER_00]: And they know that, but someone who's like, they just see it in this low resolution way help.

[SPEAKER_00]: No, we're going to win under all circumstances.

[SPEAKER_00]: mean while the guys who do know they're like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, [SPEAKER_05]: interviewer or someone was thought he could spar with sugar shone on a mallie and he's like, you know, how long would it take you to take him out and sugar shone's like, well, how long you've been having trained and he's like, no, he's like, well, 30 seconds.

[SPEAKER_05]: And the guy was like, totally in disbelief.

[SPEAKER_05]: Like, wouldn't he be kidding me?

[SPEAKER_05]: And sugar shone is like 14 seconds.

[SPEAKER_05]: You know, just like snap them down front headlock, guillotine done 14 seconds, but this guy you could see was like shocking to him.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, so yeah people that have that We it's weird confidence and yet you'd probably been pretty persuasive about it But it doesn't matter bro any right Be careful that one for sure got to be careful that one [SPEAKER_05]: Um, there's a, he points out a bunch of different generals that he thought either met or came close to the level of genius.

[SPEAKER_05]: One of them is Rommel, uh, the, the German, the desert fox.

[SPEAKER_05]: He says as the war went on, he realized Hitler's a megalomania and dishonesty.

[SPEAKER_05]: Long before the end, his distrust and contempt of his fear were complete.

[SPEAKER_05]: For Rommel was a simple straightforward honorable man.

[SPEAKER_05]: The following incidents recorded in Desmond Young's book should be noted to his credit.

[SPEAKER_05]: When in 1935 Rommel was attached to the Hitler youth to improve their discipline, he soon fell out with Baldur Von Schirock, saying that he objected strongly to small boys of [SPEAKER_05]: and telling Vol.

[SPEAKER_05]: Shirok that if he was determined to train them as soldiers, he'd better first go and learn to be a soldier himself.

[SPEAKER_05]: Rommel, coming off the top ropes.

[SPEAKER_05]: Vol.

[SPEAKER_05]: Shirok naturally had Rommel returned to the army.

[SPEAKER_05]: A remark of Rommel's about the Italians is, as the author says, surprising in a German general.

[SPEAKER_05]: And this is from Rommel.

[SPEAKER_05]: Certainly they are no good at war, but one must not judge everyone in the world only by its qualities.

[SPEAKER_05]: This is soldier.

[SPEAKER_05]: Otherwise, we should have no civilization.

[SPEAKER_05]: So he's like the Italians weren't good at war, but what they're good at some odd bunch of other stuff.

[SPEAKER_05]: When Hitler's order to execute all commando troops reached Rommel in the desert, he promptly burned it, though the order was signed to aid off Hitler.

[SPEAKER_05]: And though it threatened penalties under military law to anyone failing to carry it out or to communicate it to the troops, war under Rommel in the desert was wage-tard and fiercely but fairly.

[SPEAKER_05]: So, I think there's a...

[SPEAKER_05]: an order that came out from Hitler, if you find commandos execute like no president of war executed and Raul said no, we're not doing that.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's not the way this works.

[SPEAKER_05]: Continuing on, he may not have been a highly educated soldier, but he seems to have had an instinct for strategy as well as for tactics, and we can probably judge for ourselves.

[SPEAKER_05]: Judge ourselves fortunate that Hitler and not Raul directed the Axis strategy and that Raul's advice on the campaign in Africa was not taken.

[SPEAKER_05]: In his own notes on Desert Warfare, which formed an appendix, he wrote an adequate supply system and stocks of weapons, petrol, and ammunition are essential conditions for any army to be able to stand successfully the strain of battle before the fighting proper, the battle is fought and decided by the quartermasters.

[SPEAKER_05]: So he knew that logistics were going to win the war, or not win the war.

[SPEAKER_00]: Wait, what's the quarter-master?

[SPEAKER_05]: It's like the people that do supply.

[SPEAKER_05]: Like the, they're the logisticians of the army.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: A dictum of rommels on which it is worthwhile to ponder in these days when the lines of communication are loaded with cinema, concert parties, canteens and so forth is the best form of welfare for the troops is a superlative state of training for this saves unnecessary casualties.

[SPEAKER_05]: So rommel, it wasn't about having freaking concerts and cinemas and canteens for the troops.

[SPEAKER_05]: What you needed was good training.

[SPEAKER_05]: Rommel lived hard and frugally himself and expected others to do the same.

[SPEAKER_05]: Perhaps he was too hard on himself.

[SPEAKER_05]: For he was a sick man by the time he'd reach LL Alameen and had soon to be sent to the hospital in Germany.

[SPEAKER_05]: The story of how on October 24th, while still in the hospital he received a message from Hitler asking him to return and left at 7 a.m.

[SPEAKER_05]: The next morning to take over an already lost battle shows the courage and loyalty of the man.

[SPEAKER_05]: space only, space allows only the bearish mentioned here of other matters related in his enthralling book, Rommel's opinion of the British soldier, quote, an extraordinary bravery and toughness combined with the rigid inability to move quickly.

[SPEAKER_05]: So this is, you know, the Germans had actually, and this is all a little bit of a little bit of conjecture, but B.H.

[SPEAKER_05]: Le Del Hart, he had written the books about maneuver warfare, and the Germans had read them.

[SPEAKER_05]: And he got those ideas from the Germans in the first place, but then they took his ideas behind the indirect approach and turned those into Blitzkrieg, which is what the Nazis used.

[SPEAKER_05]: And he's saying, you know, we're almost saying, like, hey, they were brave and they were tough, but they couldn't move quick enough.

[SPEAKER_05]: Which what LaDale Hart was saying, like, you need to move.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's what warfare is going to be.

[SPEAKER_05]: If I may be pardoned a personal note, [SPEAKER_05]: It is interested me to find in this book that my calculation in the early part of 1941 when the British expedition went to Greece that I should not be counter-attack before the beginning of May was justified against any ordinary commander.

[SPEAKER_05]: So here we go.

[SPEAKER_05]: The Brits went into Greece in March of March 2nd of 1941.

[SPEAKER_05]: They got counter-attacked by the Germans on March 31st, and they had to withdraw on April 24th through the 29th, took them five days to withdraw, and they took 15,000 casualties.

[SPEAKER_05]: So this was the defeat for the British, and no who's in charge of that operation?

[SPEAKER_05]: The guy that's right in this book, and you know who counter-attacked, rumble.

[SPEAKER_05]: So he says, here, what he's saying is like, I didn't think I could be counter-attacked before May.

[SPEAKER_05]: Again, when in March, he's like, okay, well, it's March, we won't be counterattacked until me.

[SPEAKER_05]: He goes on to say, Rommel was ordered by higher command to submit a plan.

[SPEAKER_05]: by April 20th for a cautious advance.

[SPEAKER_05]: So, they see the Brits land on Greece, the Germans see it happening, they go, hey listen, by April 20th, we want some kind of a plan for a cautious advance against the Brits in Greece.

[SPEAKER_05]: What did Rommel do?

[SPEAKER_05]: Did he wait until to submit a plan on April 20th?

[SPEAKER_05]: No, 20 days prior to that He actually attacked on March 31st without ever submitting a plan and caught me this guy unprepared And he said I had not reckoned on a Rommel [SPEAKER_05]: So there you go.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's, that's a pretty bad ass moment in this book where this guy says, hey, man, I got my ass kicked by Rama.

[SPEAKER_05]: I thought it was going to take him a couple months to counterattack.

[SPEAKER_05]: And even the Germans thought it would take at least 20 days to start a, what they call it, a cautious advance.

[SPEAKER_05]: Rama said, oh, we're going to attack counterattack, given props to the guy that beat you.

[SPEAKER_05]: Rommel was a military phenomenon that can occur only at rare intervals, intervals, men of such bravery and daring can survive only with exceptional fortune.

[SPEAKER_05]: So there you go, in most cases, guys that are as brave as Rommel, who was in World War I as well, they don't survive.

[SPEAKER_05]: They don't live.

[SPEAKER_05]: So when they live and they get more leadership opportunity, that's why you end up with a Rommel.

[SPEAKER_05]: You know, I got asked about how do you teach people that kind of initiative that kind of bold that kind of being default aggressive and the way I would do to trade it as I would put people in situations repeatedly where in action and hesitation would get them wiped out.

[SPEAKER_05]: Maybe we like, oh, they like, they take a building.

[SPEAKER_05]: And hey, man, you gotta get out of this building.

[SPEAKER_05]: And if they would hesitate and wait and try and figure out a perfect plan and try and debug, debug, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[SPEAKER_05]: And then in would come the trade-at cadre up for, and just slay.

[SPEAKER_00]: Whew.

[SPEAKER_00]: Let me ask you this button.

[SPEAKER_00]: That would make someone more assertive action, become an action taker.

[SPEAKER_00]: shame them like and I don't mean shame on like necessarily for as an individual thing but just create a culture of shame So like if you don't I'm not saying to do this.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm saying what's your take on this even in principle So you know how like uh You know you can tell okay, so I forget who it was we're in Las Vegas where it was a big group of us where it was like me I think Andy stump was there and there was like some other people there [SPEAKER_00]: And you could tell no one wanted to pretend they didn't know where they were going.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're walking through like the casino, we're trying to find this restaurant, none of us knew where we were going.

[SPEAKER_00]: But no one wanted to act like, oh, like, what do you think?

[SPEAKER_00]: What do you think?

[SPEAKER_00]: Everyone was like, you could tell there was this vibe that like no one wanted to act like they were lost or didn't know what they were doing, even though we were, we all were.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, except the girls, the girls were just kind of following us, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: So, and I remember thinking like, we're all kind of embarrassed to be like, [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know where we're going.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're all kind of ashamed of it, essentially.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm thinking, man, that's, and we eventually found it kind of just clunky in our way around, but we did, we found it, and no one had did mid, we were lost or whatever, but I'm thinking maybe only you were lost.

[SPEAKER_05]: Maybe Andy Newery is going straight up just me.

[SPEAKER_00]: We were lost.

[SPEAKER_00]: We we made a few wrong turns.

[SPEAKER_00]: Anyway So I'm thinking, but that's kind of good in principle We're guys are taking action then they're not sitting around asking what do you think what do you think they were just avoided that like the plate like they were kind of embarrassed about it That's what it felt like again.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_00]: I can't even know but he's fine.

[SPEAKER_00]: I could have been wrong But I'm just saying that idea was in my head.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was like what kind of call you could kind of Actively and deliberately create a culture of that [SPEAKER_00]: of like being an action taker is the thing to do.

[SPEAKER_00]: And if you're not an action taker, it's kind of embarrassing.

[SPEAKER_00]: You're kind of sub-sub-standard kind of a thing.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's why it's default aggressive.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, that's what you're talking about is literally why we teach at echelon front.

[SPEAKER_05]: The mindset of being default aggressive because it has to be stronger than just like [SPEAKER_05]: Hey, hey take action.

[SPEAKER_05]: It needs to be strong in that because when you're in that group and it was just kind of walking it Someone needs to be like hold on a second.

[SPEAKER_05]: We we don't know where we're going stop.

[SPEAKER_05]: I need to take action default aggressive That's what I needed to do.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's why it exists and yes, we want to train people to be like that [SPEAKER_05]: look and we're not training to be running to this sound running to your death.

[SPEAKER_05]: We're not training that, but we're training to take action as your default mode.

[SPEAKER_05]: Can you override the default mode?

[SPEAKER_05]: Yes, you can be like, hey, I see a problem over there, but I'm not sure what it is.

[SPEAKER_05]: We're going to take a moment and assess it.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's fine.

[SPEAKER_05]: Of course, seven out of ten times action beat it beats in action.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's my statistical [SPEAKER_05]: facts seven out of ten times action be three times it pays to hold on a second seven out of ten times action beats at beats in action and by the way when you use the iterative decision-making process your action that you take is very small and you're going to get feedback on it quickly and it ups your ability to take action with very with minimal risk which makes taking action as opposed to inaction even better odds than seven out of ten it probably brings [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so how do I mean, I'm sure there's many ways to do it.

[SPEAKER_00]: So my question to you just not almost on a personal level, really.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, do you think there's value in, let's say a culture, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: You want to create a culture?

[SPEAKER_00]: Of course.

[SPEAKER_00]: But you think there's value in kind of creating this culture of shame if you don't take action.

[SPEAKER_05]: If you want to do it with shame, that's fine.

[SPEAKER_05]: I don't, you know, to me, I'm not a person that's like utilizing shame on a normal basis to try and get people to do things.

[SPEAKER_05]: I would rather be like, hey, Echo, let's break down why you just got overrun.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: And you'd be like, well, what, well, why do you think Echo, well, we were sitting once you told us that we had enemy forces approaching, we didn't take any action until it was too late.

[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, so what do you think should do next time?

[SPEAKER_05]: We should move more quickly.

[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_05]: You need to be aggressive, you need to be default aggressive.

[SPEAKER_05]: When you hear that there's enemy approaching, you need to almost immediately, okay, where they come in from, the north, okay, hey, get the machine gunners up facing the north.

[SPEAKER_05]: Give me two people on the rooftop on the next building over to start laying down, uh, suppressive fire.

[SPEAKER_05]: But you can do that right now.

[SPEAKER_05]: What is the risk of doing that?

[SPEAKER_05]: The risk of doing that is almost nothing.

[SPEAKER_00]: Hmm, and that, so I'm actually thinking through this as you're explaining it, you know what, I think, anyway, some of my little theory.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think the culture and the environment in and of itself just naturally create an element of shame if you're not aggressive because that starts to become the standard.

[SPEAKER_05]: Bro, if you don't, okay, the first time you learned your lesson, I'm like, hey, Echo, why don't you leave that building quick?

[SPEAKER_05]: You're like, well, you know, I was trying to come up with a perfect plan.

[SPEAKER_05]: Obviously, that wasn't a good thing.

[SPEAKER_05]: Cool.

[SPEAKER_05]: Hey, next time you got to take action, got it.

[SPEAKER_05]: The next time you do it, I'm going to, now it's going to, if this, if this, I guess this would be shaming you, I'm going to be like echo.

[SPEAKER_05]: what the fuck were you doing sitting around when you knew the enemy was moving your erection right and i'm gonna say that in front of your platoon yes that's shame cool yeah cuz i just gonna lay it on you so i take it back if i said it in chain people i am definitely gonna let you know that you screwed up by not [SPEAKER_05]: taking action when you need to.

[SPEAKER_05]: You need to take some iterative steps to improve the situation you're in and nine times out of ten, iterative steps, iterative action is going to be better than in action.

[SPEAKER_05]: Now, if you take big steps, it's going to be like seven out of ten because now you're taking a little bit more risk.

[SPEAKER_05]: So you just got to use caution, but yes, default aggressive is the mindset that we have to have because action it beats in action.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so you're not really necessarily implementing actively in an implementing shame, but you're allowing the shame to kind of play it.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I mean, I guess if I call you out in front of your pollton, you feel shame.

[SPEAKER_05]: And again, I'm not calling you out in front of your pollton right be a jerk, but everyone's got to learn the lesson.

[SPEAKER_05]: Man, I'm not purposely making you feel like an idiot in front of your普通 and if you wouldn't feel like an idiot everyone's looking at you like Hey dude, this is Echo's first time doing that job, too.

[SPEAKER_05]: We get it and you know what we're gonna do now We're gonna help Echo because we know that Echo needs to be aggressive, so when we get told hey [SPEAKER_05]: The enemy is moving toward your position right now.

[SPEAKER_05]: You need a maneuver.

[SPEAKER_05]: And as a machine gun, I'm going to go, hey, I go where they come in from.

[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, they're coming from the north.

[SPEAKER_05]: Machine gunner with me.

[SPEAKER_05]: I'm going to set up, you know, see what the people start taking action.

[SPEAKER_05]: So everyone is taking action.

[SPEAKER_05]: And it in unified thought to moving the right direction.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: And if you don't, or if you fail to even after correcting whatever, everyone's going to be looking at you.

[SPEAKER_00]: Just as an environment, they really give me like, what's up with this dude, you know, kind of a thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I learned that and don't really set it until like later on.

[SPEAKER_00]: I realized oh wait I do this in jujitsu back when I first started so when I was a white belt Yeah, I'm trying to think when I really learned it like we shouldn't be doing this stuff.

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, it is tapping to a fatigue You know, oh, you don't have a flurry and then the guy gets side-mount on you and then you just tap whatever.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you still do that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, big time So I didn't know was a thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: I thought that's how like I can't fight right now.

[SPEAKER_00]: So whatever [SPEAKER_05]: So um, were used to use the tap from claustrophobia, but that's different that was a move.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's different and I used to use it like a different.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah But you claustrophobia taps on mud at a purpose.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, don't be in the near that Especially if you know that's there a week.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I know.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah Just like if that a week neck you do it guilty.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's good.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're better to say in these really legitimate moves, but as a as a [SPEAKER_00]: Practitioner like if you're gas like get you can get in a safe position or you know You can do things you should try to avoid tapping because of condition You should try to avoid and if you don't even you see how you're laughing at me right now That's like implementing shame a little bit because as a teammate as a as a friend as a guy You know who you're training with you.

[SPEAKER_00]: You don't want them to do that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, if you're gas.

[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, your gas That's what we all get something.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I'll get up exactly right.

[SPEAKER_00]: You can say so it's like right.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's real [SPEAKER_00]: Check.

[SPEAKER_00]: Little shame.

[SPEAKER_00]: Goes along with it.

[SPEAKER_00]: It goes along with it.

[SPEAKER_04]: It goes along with it.

[SPEAKER_05]: Next section here.

[SPEAKER_05]: Unorthodox soldiers.

[SPEAKER_05]: I've always had a liking for unorthodox soldiers and a leaning towards the unorthodox and war.

[SPEAKER_05]: My father did some of his soldiering in command of irregularness in expeditions against the natives in South Africa nearly 70 years ago.

[SPEAKER_05]: He then went off to staff college, considered an almost more unorthodox proceeding in those days.

[SPEAKER_05]: Lack of enterprise has prevented my string aside from the regular path of soldiering.

[SPEAKER_05]: Though some of my superiors have, I believe, occasionally criticized my methods as a little unconventional.

[SPEAKER_05]: Thus, I have always...

[SPEAKER_05]: had a keen admiration for the irregular soldier professional or amateur, just again, just the idea of not just always following what you're being told to do and trying to think of new ways to do that.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's what he's saying in that section there.

[SPEAKER_05]: This next section is called the Good Soldier.

[SPEAKER_05]: In over 42 years active soldiering, I must have formed some opinion on the qualities which make the good soldier.

[SPEAKER_05]: When writing of generals, I put robustness as the first quality, similarly for the private soldier, I rate toughness endurance as the prime requirement.

[SPEAKER_05]: Valor and sufferance said a fine commander monk when he was asked to define the first essentials of a soldier.

[SPEAKER_05]: So Valor and sufferance that sufferance is the ability to endure pain.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's it, man.

[SPEAKER_05]: Here's the number one.

[SPEAKER_05]: Here's the top two things I need from a soldier.

[SPEAKER_05]: Valor and sufferance.

[SPEAKER_05]: the ability, the capacity to endure pain.

[SPEAKER_05]: Soldering in the ranks on active service always has been is now in spite of mobile canteens, rations comprising some hundreds of items, wireless sets, cinema vans, and entertainments pin up girls and other comforts, despite all that.

[SPEAKER_05]: a hard-testing business required for success, a hard-tough man.

[SPEAKER_05]: The difference between the old type of soldier as I first knew him and the modern type is that the old soldier was tough, the modern type usually has to be toughened.

[SPEAKER_05]: the less civilized man has a natural advantage in war.

[SPEAKER_05]: His wants are simple.

[SPEAKER_05]: He's accustomed to hardship and frugality, often too, his life is so laborious that he rates it comparatively lightly.

[SPEAKER_05]: Bro, I grew up on a damn dairy farm.

[SPEAKER_05]: Not me, but I had a guy that grew up on a dairy farm.

[SPEAKER_05]: Bro, he was as hard working as they come.

[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's like, hey, you got to go up at four o'clock in the morning and, you know, fill sandbags.

[SPEAKER_05]: He's like, cool, I used to get up at two o'clock in the morning and throw a belt.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's a sleep room, it's a joke.

[SPEAKER_05]: When the Spartans were at the height of their military fame and glory, they sent a deputation to the Oracle at Delphi and command and demanded arrogantly can anything harm Sparta.

[SPEAKER_05]: The answer came, yes, luxury.

[SPEAKER_05]: It is interesting to note how standards change and how the toughness of the ancients seems always greater than that of the present generations.

[SPEAKER_05]: I should say that this quality of toughness is partly inherited, partly produced by training, and that inheritance is the more important.

[SPEAKER_05]: Not all the modern, easy ways of life have been able to eradicate the hardcore of native toughness in the British race.

[SPEAKER_05]: Though we did a little enough to train it or keep it alive in the years between the wars.

[SPEAKER_05]: So, he's saying like, hey, the breads are just tough.

[SPEAKER_05]: And we didn't do much to keep it tough in between the wars.

[SPEAKER_05]: He says the Germans [SPEAKER_05]: with a tough, but less tough inherited core did everything possible during the same period to develop hardness and endurance by training, not only in the army, but in the nation as a whole.

[SPEAKER_05]: So that's when you had the Hitler youth out there just to get an after it, right?

[SPEAKER_05]: But they were trying to make up according to WaveL, they're trying to make up for the fast that they're a little bit softer.

[SPEAKER_05]: So they had to be hardcore, as a country.

[SPEAKER_05]: He says, might one define the German core as pig iron, our own is steel.

[SPEAKER_05]: He's obviously gonna buy us here.

[SPEAKER_05]: The Japanese are tough, and they have set up toughness as a fetish.

[SPEAKER_05]: Just as did the Spartans, their forerunners in the worship of militarism.

[SPEAKER_05]: Moose, again, this guy's got some biases, clearly.

[SPEAKER_05]: Moose Alini did his best to display the Italians as tough, but the test was soon proved how soft their inner court was.

[SPEAKER_05]: The modern British soldier, once trained is capable of feet of endurance as great as any of the past as the long range patrols of the western desert, wing gates, raiders in Burma, the men of our, our, our, our, our, and many others have shown.

[SPEAKER_05]: in all.

[SPEAKER_05]: We call this part out.

[SPEAKER_05]: The American soldier of this war obviously is obviously a great great fighting man.

[SPEAKER_05]: Tough, daring, and resourceful.

[SPEAKER_05]: His reputation will stand second to none when it's all over.

[SPEAKER_05]: Can I get a hell of you?

[SPEAKER_00]: I'll read it again.

[SPEAKER_05]: The American soldier of this war is obviously a great fighting man tough daring and resourceful.

[SPEAKER_05]: His reputation will stand second to none when it's all over.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now my bias is coming up.

[SPEAKER_05]: and second and none, when it's all over.

[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, these Americans, these Americans, these are the guys that went on to the beach in Normandy.

[SPEAKER_05]: These guys that went to Pelaloo, right?

[SPEAKER_05]: These guys that went to Taroa.

[SPEAKER_05]: These are American soldiers and marines.

[SPEAKER_05]: They go hard.

[SPEAKER_05]: You know, you got the samurai spirit, the Bouchito culture.

[SPEAKER_05]: Cool, where coming?

[SPEAKER_00]: You said something interesting, I, I, I, I forget which they say they fetishize toughness.

[SPEAKER_05]: It was the Japanese.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Interesting.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know how they put that, where it's like, it's to be, it's almost like, I don't know, I'm totally loosely interpreting that.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, it's to be revered for sure, but it's not just the standard necessarily.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's what it feels like when they say they fetishize toughness.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, that's an interesting take.

[SPEAKER_05]: And when you look at the Bushido culture, right?

[SPEAKER_05]: Well, that was the imperial Japanese army.

[SPEAKER_05]: Like, that's what they were.

[SPEAKER_05]: But it's very interesting that you're in a defended island and you set up defenses for months, if not years.

[SPEAKER_05]: And here come these Americans, you know what I'm saying?

[SPEAKER_05]: these Americans country boys city boys you got the only got all from there right you got them all there and they're coming to the stop that's what's happening [SPEAKER_05]: So that's endurance.

[SPEAKER_05]: The skill at arms is the next essential after endurance.

[SPEAKER_05]: The soldier must know how to use his weapon or weapons effectively, a comparatively simple matter in the old days of very complicated one now when nearly every man must be a specialist.

[SPEAKER_05]: The modern soldier is certainly more capable of adapting himself to new weapons and new conditions than the old type would have been.

[SPEAKER_05]: I kind of disagree with that because I can teach you how to shoot a rifle on a pistol and you can be deadly Pretty quickly, but if I'm like trying to teach you how to do like a bow and arrow like I do archery archery is a lot harder than Shooting a pistol or rifle and if we take that back another step to like a spear or a sword Now you got to learn swordsmanship.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's like a martial art.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, so yeah, it's kind of like oh Snowboarding recently [SPEAKER_00]: snowboarding surfing is the same thing where you have this kind of preliminary period that you got to get good at just to be able to function right where we're guns let's say that period is very short you say there's a trigger know the rules and you know and then from there you can start getting good at it.

[SPEAKER_00]: but yeah like bone arrow or things or surfing or see break you got to learn how to stand up on a surfboard before you can try any way if I don't care how big or small like you got to learn to stand up first and it's really not that easy it doesn't come that intuitively but it's not that hard to pull the trigger exactly right yeah so it's a yeah it's kind of one of those scenarios you [SPEAKER_05]: Continuing on in the good soldier to say that a good soldier must have discipline is no more than to say you must have learned his trade well That's a core discipline is it's just like that's your your freaking trade life is discipline [SPEAKER_05]: I do not propose here to discuss in any detail the controversial matter of military discipline.

[SPEAKER_05]: Discipline is teaching which makes a man do something which he would not unless he had learned that it was right, the proper, and the expedient thing to do.

[SPEAKER_05]: So that's discipline.

[SPEAKER_05]: You wouldn't do it unless you knew it was the right thing to do.

[SPEAKER_05]: At its best, it is instilled and maintained by pride in oneself in one unit, it's in one's profession.

[SPEAKER_05]: only at its worst by fear of punishment.

[SPEAKER_05]: So this one should come from within.

[SPEAKER_05]: The military manifestations of discipline are many and various at the end of the scale may be placed the outward display, such as saluting and smartness or drill, the meaning and value of which are often misunderstood and misused both inside the army and out.

[SPEAKER_05]: Saluting should be in spirit, the recognition of a comrade in arms, the respect of a junior for a senior, a gesture of brotherhood on both sides.

[SPEAKER_05]: good drill should either be a ceremony for the uplifting of the spirit or a time saver for some necessary purpose, never mere formalism or pedantry.

[SPEAKER_05]: No one who is participated in it or seen it well done should doubt the inspiration of ceremonial drill.

[SPEAKER_05]: You ever seen the Marine Corps silent drill team.

[SPEAKER_04]: Inspirational.

[SPEAKER_05]: No one has understood the effect of mass display better than [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, when you'd see like those full freaking parades, I mean, come on, but pomp and ceremony should be for special occasions, not for every day.

[SPEAKER_05]: Drill learned for a purpose on the battlefield has lost much of its form and necessity, but by no means all.

[SPEAKER_05]: In the old days, it was not merely the foundation, but they're almost the whole edifice of regular warfare.

[SPEAKER_05]: This is like close order drill.

[SPEAKER_05]: In the old days, it was what you had to do to make your unit work.

[SPEAKER_05]: You had to do close order drill.

[SPEAKER_05]: It was close order drill that made the formidable the Greek failanks, the Roman Legion, the Spanish array of Pythman, the famous Obleek order of Frederick the Great depended on it.

[SPEAKER_05]: It enabled the British line to defeat the French infantry column and the British squared to hold off the French cavalry in the Napoleonic wars.

[SPEAKER_05]: Today it is still essential for many purposes.

[SPEAKER_05]: And effective artillery barrage could not be laid down if the movements of the gunners in loading and firing and not been practiced by constant and exact drill.

[SPEAKER_05]: A bridge could not be built rapidly under fire unless all stages have been worked out and rehearsed to a high degree of certainty.

[SPEAKER_05]: Unless airmen conform to a regular drill and starting and landing their airplanes, there would be many casualties.

[SPEAKER_05]: So you have to drill things.

[SPEAKER_05]: You have to drill things, and we used to drill things like crazy.

[SPEAKER_05]: I told you, it's starting the other day, like rigging a Humvee for toe.

[SPEAKER_05]: We're like African pit crew, right?

[SPEAKER_05]: Changing tires, watch this, boom, boom, boom, all that.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's drill, that's close to order drill when you're in a Humvee.

[SPEAKER_05]: These are examples of the outward, the mechanical side of discipline learning by practice to do something so automatically that it becomes natural even in moments of stress.

[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, that's a good thing.

[SPEAKER_05]: It is essential both to warfare and to orderly efficient civil life.

[SPEAKER_05]: If anyone doubts this, let them consider the discipline he employs daily in his rising up and his lying down.

[SPEAKER_05]: The time, for instance, that it would take him to not his time if he came to it unpracticed.

[SPEAKER_05]: So, there you go, like everything you do, you rehearse, you know how to do it.

[SPEAKER_05]: If you don't, you got problems.

[SPEAKER_05]: So why we drill?

[SPEAKER_05]: That's why we rehearse.

[SPEAKER_05]: One great difficulty of training the individual soldier in peace is to instill discipline and yet preserve the initiative and independence needed in war.

[SPEAKER_05]: So just because we're disciplined it doesn't mean we're too rigid, so the dichotomy of leadership we got to be disciplined but we got to have initiative and we got to have independence.

[SPEAKER_05]: The best soldier in peace, officer or man is not necessarily the best soldier in war.

[SPEAKER_05]: though he is so more often than not and it is always and is not always easy in peace conditions to recognize the man who will make good and war.

[SPEAKER_05]: We know this.

[SPEAKER_05]: The soldier who is a thorough nuisance in the barracks is occasionally a treasure in the field, though not as, or not nearly as often as Hollywood and sentimental novelists would have us to believe, but I'll tell you what, it ain't that rare, BTF Tony, right?

[SPEAKER_05]: Well, on BTF Tony, right there in the mix, bro, in combat.

[SPEAKER_05]: You know what I'm saying?

[SPEAKER_05]: Hey, and you know what?

[SPEAKER_05]: When there's peace time, you gotta just keep, you gotta, gotta watch out for him.

[SPEAKER_05]: Get it, let's.

[SPEAKER_05]: You know, gotta take care of him.

[SPEAKER_05]: Keep him out of trouble as best you can.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's gonna be hard.

[SPEAKER_05]: That all those are all kinds of guys like that in the military.

[SPEAKER_05]: And those are the dudes that win the freaking battle.

[SPEAKER_05]: I remember one of the drafts with which I first joined, a short stocky tough from some Glasgow scum.

[SPEAKER_05]: I got to know well as the roughest and sturdiest of the regimental hockey team, a wing half who never gave the forwards opposed to him a yard of rope and reveled in a hard rough game.

[SPEAKER_05]: I knew him also too well in the orderly room.

[SPEAKER_05]: He was continually in trouble for foul tongue and propensity for drinking and fighting.

[SPEAKER_05]: He was at least once nearly put up for a discharge by an exasperated company commander.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yet I should always have been glad in war to see that hardly irrepressible figure at my side where I had so often found it in the hockey field.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's a BTF Tony all day.

[SPEAKER_05]: The best soldier has in him, I think, a seasoning of devilry.

[SPEAKER_05]: Some years ago, a friend of mine and a discussion on training to find the ideal infrastructure man as athlete, marksman stalker.

[SPEAKER_05]: I retorted that a better ideal would be cat burglar, gunmen, poacher.

[SPEAKER_05]: My point was that the athlete marksman stalker, whatever his skill risks nothing.

[SPEAKER_05]: The cat burglar, gunmen, and poacher risk life, liberty, and limb as the soldier has to do in war.

[SPEAKER_05]: Dr.

Johnson, who saw shrewdly into most things, once wrote some thoughts on the British soldier.

[SPEAKER_05]: He began thus.

[SPEAKER_05]: The qualities which commonly make an army formidable are long habits of regularity, great exactness of discipline, and great confidence in the commander.

[SPEAKER_05]: He went on to show that regularity was no part of the English soldiers character that their discipline was often indifferent and that they had no particular reason to be confident in their commanders.

[SPEAKER_05]: So he's like, this is what makes a good soldier and we don't have it.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yet they were without a doubt the bravest soldiers in Europe.

[SPEAKER_05]: he ascribed it to the independence of character of the Englishman.

[SPEAKER_05]: And this is like, you know, this is the American, too.

[SPEAKER_05]: This is when you're a 19-year-old Marine getting ready to go into Taroa.

[SPEAKER_05]: And you're like, I'm gonna kick ass and take names, like, that's a real thing.

[SPEAKER_05]: We joke about it.

[SPEAKER_05]: I'm here to kick ass and take names, right?

[SPEAKER_05]: That's like a joke.

[SPEAKER_05]: No, no, no, no.

[SPEAKER_05]: Tell that to a knight, he's not joking.

[SPEAKER_05]: 19-year-old Marine's not joking.

[SPEAKER_05]: uh...

the character of a good Englishman who called no man his master he ended his essay thus they who complain in peace of the insolence of the populist must remember their insolence in peace is bravery and war got him a little bit of rebel a little bit of devilry in you [SPEAKER_05]: A good soldier will soon learn the tricks of the trade, some useful, such as the proper care of his feet on the march of its weapons and equipment in all times, a secret of making the best of uncomfortable conditions, some bad, some scrounging or looting.

[SPEAKER_05]: To sum up, it seems to me that the essential qualities of the goods, just good, the individual goods soldier are endurance, skill at arms, and the valor of discipline with some punch and sea of independence.

[SPEAKER_05]: So true.

[SPEAKER_05]: And by the way, just so everyone knows, you want this with your kids, too.

[SPEAKER_05]: You do not want just obedient kids.

[SPEAKER_05]: You want kids that are going to push back.

[SPEAKER_05]: You want kids at a little rebellious, because at some point they're going to be pushing back against peer pressure.

[SPEAKER_05]: Some point they're going to be pushing back against some tyrannical coach or teacher, someone that's like not a good person.

[SPEAKER_05]: of rebelliousness, you have to.

[SPEAKER_05]: Otherwise, they're just, you know, going to conform.

[SPEAKER_05]: And sometimes they're going to conform things that are bad.

[SPEAKER_05]: It was a quote here.

[SPEAKER_05]: Nothing has ever been made until the soldier has made it safe the field where the building shall be built.

[SPEAKER_05]: And the soldier is the scaffolding until it has been built and the soldier gets no reward, but honor.

[SPEAKER_05]: nuts from Eric Link later, crisis in heaven.

[SPEAKER_05]: However, good and well-trained a man may be as an individual.

[SPEAKER_05]: He is not a good soldier till he has become absorbed into the corporate life of his unit and has been entirely imbued with its traditions.

[SPEAKER_05]: So you gotta be a part of this thing, man.

[SPEAKER_05]: You gotta be a part of this thing.

[SPEAKER_05]: Much has said nowadays of the necessity that the soldier should be convinced of the justice of his cause, and he is certainly not cannot escape propaganda.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yet many battles and campaigns have been won by men who had little idea of why they were fighting and perhaps cared less.

[SPEAKER_05]: Right, so you've got to know the why.

[SPEAKER_05]: I say that all the time, kind of know that.

[SPEAKER_05]: But you've got a soldier.

[SPEAKER_05]: This dude's going to freaking risk his life.

[SPEAKER_05]: You don't even know what the politicians are talking about.

[SPEAKER_05]: And that's because he's impued with the spirit of his unit, because it is bros.

Whatever may inspire morale, it is an essential element of any military force.

[SPEAKER_05]: It is the inward spiritual side of discipline, morale, the inward spiritual side of discipline.

[SPEAKER_05]: It can be seen in such incidences as the sinking of the Birkenhead, when soldiers on board stood in order on the deck while the women and children were put in a few boats available, and the ship sank under them, and this happened in 1852, and it was a troop ship.

[SPEAKER_05]: So they were transporting some troops down to South Africa and the ship went down.

[SPEAKER_05]: and officers had taken their families, and so there's women and kids on the ship, and 640 people were on board, 450 of them died, all the women and children lived.

[SPEAKER_05]: And that's because they weren't.

[SPEAKER_05]: Those are the culture.

[SPEAKER_05]: I am not getting into a lifeboat before the women and children are safe.

[SPEAKER_05]: This has been regarded as a perfect manifestation of discipline, since the King of Prussia ordered an account of it to be read at the head of every unit in his army.

[SPEAKER_05]: The men of the tattered battalion which fights till it dies must be inspired by an inward discipline as the troops on the beach at Dunkirk and on many other stricken field where men have held on against hopeless odds not because of individual bravery but by the strength of their collective discipline and morale.

[SPEAKER_05]: Good teamwork and morale is now more than ever required when units fight over wide open spaces and not in close order when one individual can control them.

[SPEAKER_05]: And it goes on to talk about the good soldier.

[SPEAKER_05]: The British soldier has to the quality of tolerance, which extends even to the mistakes of his superiors.

[SPEAKER_05]: He will not easily withdraw confidence from his leaders even if they fail to win success, a blessing on the British fighting man on his endurance, courage, and a good humor.

[SPEAKER_05]: And we talked about it in the last one, like humor is a thing.

[SPEAKER_05]: a very positive thing.

[SPEAKER_05]: Very large proportion of those citizens who have served in this war have reached a standard of physical fitness that they have not known before, and could not easily have acquired in civilian life, but it is the inward qualities that count.

[SPEAKER_05]: It seems to me that the best qualities of a good soldier spring from the sense of true comradeship, which is the supreme gift of the military life as a whole and of a good unit in a special.

[SPEAKER_05]: Self-sacrifice loyalty to cause and friends, staunchness and endurance and hardship and danger, these are fostered by military training and comradeship.

[SPEAKER_05]: they will be required in the hard testing days of peace as well as war i trust that after the war the good soldier and the good citizen will be one maybe not the best thing to trust and you know when you hear this right here this section when we talk about what the trouble that guys have transitioning to the civilian sector [SPEAKER_05]: it's because of these inward qualities that we talk about are part of being a unit.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's the comradeship.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's the, the lud says the supreme gift of military life.

[SPEAKER_05]: is the comrade ship that you have.

[SPEAKER_05]: The self-sacrifice loyalty to cause and friends fostered by military training and comrade ship.

[SPEAKER_05]: So it's hard when that disappears.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's why we got to get to a, do you do GM start training with people?

[SPEAKER_05]: Good, so much hard.

[SPEAKER_05]: Should you have some hardship today, echoed Charles?

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: Some shared hardship, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's happening, right?

[SPEAKER_05]: You feel better when we're done?

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I do feel better.

[SPEAKER_05]: Or unity with the troops?

[SPEAKER_05]: Or unity.

[SPEAKER_05]: Wanna go back on the mats?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, sir.

[SPEAKER_05]: I will conclude this very inadequate essay on the great subject with a story.

[SPEAKER_05]: I have always appreciated the old Duke of York.

[SPEAKER_05]: Commander in Chief 1798 to 1809, the soldier's friend once found his footman footman turning a poor woman from the door.

[SPEAKER_05]: only an old soldier's wife was the explanation and pray said the Duke what else is her royal highness the Duchess of York so there you go what is the what is the Duchess of York she's an old soldier's wife as well I hope that story will be remembered [SPEAKER_05]: in days to come whenever old soldiers and soldiers' wives require help.

[SPEAKER_05]: Little section here on command, and I thought these were very poignant.

[SPEAKER_05]: A commander should never attempt to control an operation or a battle by remaining at his HQ.

[SPEAKER_05]: or be content with or be content to keep in touch with a subordinates by cable, wire transmission or other means of communication.

[SPEAKER_05]: He must as far as possible see the ground for himself or to confirm or correct his impressions of the map.

[SPEAKER_05]: His subordinate commanders [SPEAKER_05]: to discuss their plans and ideas with them and the troops to judge their needs in their morals.

[SPEAKER_05]: You got to get out with the troops.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's what he's saying.

[SPEAKER_05]: You know, weird sometimes you look at a map and what it looks like in real life compared to what it looks like on the map.

[SPEAKER_05]: Like, hmm, I didn't really, didn't really sense that.

[SPEAKER_05]: And I used to go to great lengths like, especially when my first deployment to Iraq when we would be going to a place we'd never been before.

[SPEAKER_05]: Some area of Baghdad or some outline and I would try and look it because you look at a building from one angle Let's especially like it's a pure overhead angle bro.

[SPEAKER_05]: You're you're just gonna be all You don't get a recognized.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's very difficult.

[SPEAKER_05]: I shouldn't say you're not, but it's gonna be but you get three or four different 3D Angles like okay, I can get and even then you're still gonna be caught off guard a little bit still gonna not be what you quite expect So you gotta get out there and same thing with your people Oh, I talked to Echo on the radio.

[SPEAKER_05]: He sounded good to go get out there.

[SPEAKER_05]: He's a freaking disaster [SPEAKER_05]: Or he sounds like a disaster, I get out there, he's good to go, like you got to get out there and make sure that things make sense.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's true, and actually a couple of things where it is real quick, so that I was driving in big there, yes, and we stayed up on a hill, and on the hill, there's this, it's called Moon Ridge, right where you go up, but it's this maze of roads.

[SPEAKER_00]: So when you look at it on the map or the GPS, you're kind of going up.

[SPEAKER_00]: Follow this thing, whatever.

[SPEAKER_00]: You don't realize you're going up and then around this thing and then back down and all this stuff and you're like, yeah, this map doesn't look like this actual terrain in real life at all.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that's a story that I agree with you there.

[SPEAKER_00]: But now when you see, when you're talking about people that's so true, so you know how certain people they're like more quiet, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Just in general.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then some people who they're just normal, but wouldn't get mad, they get quiet.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then some people wouldn't get mad, they get a little bit more loud, more aggressive, seem sane.

[SPEAKER_00]: But if you're just used to people getting loud and aggressive, and then you're like, oh, yeah, you go around your other friend that gets quiet.

[SPEAKER_00]: You don't realize you get quiet because you never really see a mad.

[SPEAKER_00]: No, they're quiet.

[SPEAKER_00]: You're like, oh, yeah, nothing's wrong.

[SPEAKER_00]: Just a mellow today.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, he's pissed at you.

[SPEAKER_00]: Whatever.

[SPEAKER_05]: Got to get out there.

[SPEAKER_05]: You didn't know.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: And says get out there as often as possible.

[SPEAKER_05]: The same course applies to periods of preparation and periods between operations.

[SPEAKER_05]: In fact, generally, the less time a commander spends in his office and the more times this troop, the better.

[SPEAKER_05]: So, remember that team leaders, CEOs, commanding officers, troop commanders.

[SPEAKER_05]: Here's some good rules.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's worthwhile to bear in mind the following when it comes to reports.

[SPEAKER_05]: Two-thirds of the reports which are received in war are inaccurate.

[SPEAKER_05]: Never accept a single report of success or disaster as necessarily true without confirmation.

[SPEAKER_05]: Hey, apply that to your freaking social media stream.

[SPEAKER_05]: Please, two-thirds of them are junk, right?

[SPEAKER_05]: And don't accept one report from anybody.

[SPEAKER_05]: Always try to devise a means to deceive and out with the enemy and throw him off his balance.

[SPEAKER_05]: Check, that's a good call, right?

[SPEAKER_05]: And finally, attack is not only the most effective, but the easiest form of warfare, and the moral difference between advance and retreat is incalculable.

[SPEAKER_05]: I must say that again, the moral difference between advance and retreat is incalculable.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's what happened when you're running away, it's crushing.

[SPEAKER_05]: When you're attacking, it's motivating.

[SPEAKER_05]: Even when inferior in numbers it pays to be aggressive, it pays to be as aggressive as possible.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's what we're doing, man.

[SPEAKER_05]: You've seen MMA fight where you see someone step up their game.

[SPEAKER_05]: Like, hey, I'm losing and right now, and I need to step up my game and go on the attack.

[SPEAKER_05]: And that'll make the difference in a fight all day.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's...

[SPEAKER_00]: So I go through that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Everyone's well.

[SPEAKER_00]: When we're doing it like a conditioning bout.

[SPEAKER_00]: And if I really don't want to be here, or if I'm doing poorly, [SPEAKER_00]: It's night and day how tired I feel, same thing in jujitsu.

[SPEAKER_00]: So if you let's say, okay, mean you're rolling and you're like, if you just begin to kind of put it on me, I can kind of have the same output physically, but since I'm getting defeated, I seem way more tired.

[SPEAKER_00]: because I don't want to be there, but when it's reversed let's say if I step it up and I'm kind of putting it on you in your sense of urgency now you're defending the whole time I'm like oh this guy is freaking squirming a little bit I can still do a lot of output I won't be as tired because I want to be there, same saying so it's like way different like you can literally have the same physical output but that mental game will make you feel more tired [SPEAKER_00]: the truth that's real so you know on the attack man yeah and it's kind of like you ever see like in and you see you see this all the time in USC right you know how two guys are just battling it out you can tell they're both like kind of in the orange zone as far as gassing but they're just putting it on the line right and then one guy lands a shot and knocks the guy out [SPEAKER_00]: But all of a sudden, this guy's running around the ring, he's jumping on top of the ring.

[SPEAKER_00]: They brought us a lot of energy to do their good stuff.

[SPEAKER_00]: Where was that, you see what I'm saying?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, brother, that's real, you know?

[SPEAKER_00]: Just that, I guess it's kind of like a level of morale in a way.

[SPEAKER_05]: That was a 100% morale.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's what it is, dude, being on the attack is good morale.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: Being on the defense is bad morale.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: Be first, you ever heard a corner man in MMA.

[SPEAKER_05]: Be first, be first, be first, be first, be first, they say that.

[SPEAKER_05]: They're trying to help you be first because that puts the other person on their defensive, which is what you want, you know, break them or out.

[SPEAKER_05]: Fast forward a little bit.

[SPEAKER_05]: For a soldier, certainly for the frontline soldier, physical and moral, moral toughness are always more important than book learning.

[SPEAKER_05]: There is a saying that you cannot make a silk purse out of a size ear, but you can make a very serviceable leather one, and a military service leather purses are more practically useful than silk ones.

[SPEAKER_05]: The average fighting soldier has a natural suspicion of cleverness, and by the cleverness it means like a craftiness being like smart, big words, either of the tongue or of the pen and is inclined to condemn it, a British general.

[SPEAKER_05]: who rose to high command and played a considerable part in the conquest of our Indian empire is said to have known only two lines of verse composed by himself, which he never tired of repeating, damn you're writing, mind your fighting.

[SPEAKER_05]: So that amongst soldiers, also there is a prejudice against book learning.

[SPEAKER_05]: yet education for the soldier had to come and it has to continue.

[SPEAKER_05]: Other things being equal, there can be no doubt that the better educated man will make a better commander and soldier, tough character and practical experience will always be the first requirements.

[SPEAKER_05]: One of the subjects that should be studied by an officer, desirous of perfecting himself in the military profession history, especially military history, is an obvious subject with geography and other.

[SPEAKER_05]: both Napoleon and Wellington carried with them a considerable library on these subjects.

[SPEAKER_05]: Napoleon's precept, read and reread the campaigns of the great commanders, is well-known.

[SPEAKER_05]: Thus the officer, the leader, has a wide range of knowledge in which he can improve himself, and he should never cease learning.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's why we have these old books, that's why we review them.

[SPEAKER_05]: There's one quality above all, which seems to me essential for a good commander.

[SPEAKER_05]: The ability to express himself clearly, confidently, and concisely, in speech and on paper.

[SPEAKER_05]: I'm going to go ahead and say that again.

[SPEAKER_05]: Pay attention.

[SPEAKER_05]: There is one quality above all.

[SPEAKER_05]: which seems to me essential for a good commander.

[SPEAKER_05]: That is, the ability to express himself clearly, confidently and concisely in speech and on paper.

[SPEAKER_05]: Didn't talk about tactics, didn't talk about toughness.

[SPEAKER_05]: He didn't talk about ability on the battlefield.

[SPEAKER_05]: He talked about clear, simple, clear, concise communication, spoken and written.

[SPEAKER_05]: to have the power to translate his intentions into orders and instructions which are not merely intelligible but unmistakable and yet brief enough to waste no time.

[SPEAKER_05]: My experience of getting on for 50 years service has shown me that it is a rare quality amongst Army officers to which not nearly enough attention is paid in their education.

[SPEAKER_05]: Go be an English major.

[SPEAKER_05]: It is one which can be acquired, but seldom is because it is seldom taught.

[SPEAKER_05]: So communication, communication, communication, communication.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's what we have to do as leaders.

[SPEAKER_05]: We have to write, we have to read, we have to speak simple, clear, concise language, intelligible and unmistakable.

[SPEAKER_05]: And what you're saying, this is what leadership is.

[SPEAKER_05]: and we'll close out this book with this little bit of Plato, the Greek Plato, whose theories on education, though written some 22 and a half centuries ago, are still modern, insisted on a proper balance between mental and physical development.

[SPEAKER_05]: wall for the scholar, the tendency is to neglect physical development for the soldier the balance naturally inclines to the other side, so of course the scholar, you know they don't care about physical and the soldier doesn't really care enough about the mental side.

[SPEAKER_05]: The scholar may be a physical weed, and the term weed is the British guy who's using a British term, and it's an informal expression, which means a contemptible feeble person.

[SPEAKER_05]: So the scholar may be a physically contemptible feeble person, and yet a great scholar.

[SPEAKER_05]: However, a weakling, physical, and moral can never be a good soldier.

[SPEAKER_05]: And with that, that's what we have once again.

[SPEAKER_05]: Many lessons.

[SPEAKER_05]: from Field Marshal, WaveL, and that's what we're doing here, right?

[SPEAKER_05]: We are trying to capture, we're trying to improve our own understanding of military knowledge, of military history, of knowledge of leadership, of communications, that's what we're trying to do.

[SPEAKER_05]: And you can capture from that closing statement that we need [SPEAKER_05]: physical strength, of course.

[SPEAKER_05]: We need mental strength, of course, and we need moral strength.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's why we're here.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's what we're doing, getting stronger, mentally, physically, and morally, because the more apart, [SPEAKER_05]: If you're not physically and mentally strong, you're not going to stand up to the moral part.

[SPEAKER_05]: You get crushed.

[SPEAKER_05]: So, part of this, part of, isn't it interesting you just brought it up like the, when you're hurting?

[SPEAKER_05]: You didn't say, you didn't need to say, you, you said, when you're hurting during a hard work.

[SPEAKER_05]: You're not talking about like your muscle, your lack to gas.

[SPEAKER_05]: You're talking about mentally hurting.

[SPEAKER_05]: But we train physically to become mentally tougher and we become mentally tougher and physically tougher we become morally tougher.

[SPEAKER_05]: This is all connected.

[SPEAKER_05]: But it's interesting that you use to submit from fatigue [SPEAKER_05]: And then you got over that, then you submitted due to claustrophobia, and you've morphed, you've grown beyond those things.

[SPEAKER_05]: You had to suffer through them.

[SPEAKER_05]: You had to recognize and feel shame for your lack.

[SPEAKER_05]: of tenacity and it got right back bone but that's what we had to do right and that's what we're all doing but the reason I say that is because we do these physically hard things and it makes us physically stronger but let's not forget that it makes us mentally stronger and then let's not forget that when we come stronger physically and stronger mentally now we can hold the line morally so that's what we're doing.

[SPEAKER_00]: Have a question go kind of rewinding a little bit back to the knowledge like the learning learning part was a second ago.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh Remember look you guys have a class called land navigation right now Have you remember that class pretty thoroughly or no?

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's not it's not really like [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I mean, it's not like a course that you go to.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's a class that you get taught.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's not like some huge, like, isn't it a class?

[SPEAKER_05]: It's not like a real fall school.

[SPEAKER_05]: You know, where you're going to a school or sniper school.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's like land now.

[SPEAKER_05]: Well, you get like probably three, four hours in the classroom when you're a new guy or going through seal qualification training.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and then you go out and then you go on the field, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: So what's the first thing in the classroom?

[SPEAKER_00]: Do you, if you're even remembering, but what do you learn?

[SPEAKER_00]: What's the first thing you learn?

[SPEAKER_05]: You know, you're probably like learning how to what all the things on a map mean.

[SPEAKER_05]: So when you look at a map like, hey, these are grid lines.

[SPEAKER_05]: This is the datum.

[SPEAKER_05]: This is what the, this is what a blue line means.

[SPEAKER_05]: This is what, you know, just learning what a map.

[SPEAKER_05]: What all the symbols of the symbology of a map, I guess.

[SPEAKER_05]: yeah and or a chart but a chart you're going to learn it's not land now that's that's maritime navigation use a chart so for land navigation use a map and you've got to learn what all those little symbols are and that's probably the first thing that you learn.

[SPEAKER_00]: yeah because you know how like when you learn something in the classroom with zero experience it's like it's almost like shots in the dark like okay I'll just just do you have no context but when you do it the other way around where you just oh I was just throwing in the field like you know construction or something like this and I was just throwing in the field they're telling me what to do and on the fly what not to meanwhile I was just winging it and I was kind of trial and erroring the whole thing [SPEAKER_00]: But I've been doing it for like three years.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm pretty, like, good experience, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: And then you go on the classroom or learn some technical thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: You're like, bro, this explains a whole lot, you know?

[SPEAKER_00]: And you're just picking and you're just eating it up.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because it's so contextual, you know?

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's almost like, like, do you think there would be some bad, I guess it would just depend on what it is?

[SPEAKER_00]: But some benefit in kind of throwing, like, reversing the education system, not the full education, but in certain things, yes, and it's not put, [SPEAKER_05]: You don't have to take it to the extreme.

[SPEAKER_05]: You just you do little bits, right?

[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, back and forth.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, you go back and forth back and forth.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, the idea of learning things [SPEAKER_05]: is to have a very broad mind and utilize as much as you possibly can to get people to understand, right?

[SPEAKER_05]: So we would have guys, and it's talked about this, I think, in the decademy leadership of like, some instructors teaching close quarters combat would be like, well, they would want to explain everything, and they explain it for two hours.

[SPEAKER_05]: Meanwhile, the other instructors like, hey, let me give you a five minute brief then you're going to start doing it, and the people let do it.

[SPEAKER_05]: do better.

[SPEAKER_05]: Now if you if you had another person or like, hey, I'm not going to tell you anything and you're just going to enter the room and figure it out for yourself.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's a loser too.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: So we have to have a hybrid system where you get shown techniques and then you do the techniques and then you do the techniques live.

[SPEAKER_05]: You know, it's really helpful once we started using Simunition where you could fight against other people that were maneuvering, been through that before.

[SPEAKER_05]: So, yes, if you were to sit, if I took you echo Charles and brought you in a classroom and I tried to teach you land nav, now I could do it like if we had VR and I could use a bunch of imagery to show you what it looked like, but that's going to be really difficult, but to teach you in a classroom with a book, let's let let the limit to me to having like a book and a map.

[SPEAKER_05]: you could go on the field and be completely lost.

[SPEAKER_05]: If I just brought you in the field and you didn't have, I didn't explain what things were, it would take you longer to learn how to do it.

[SPEAKER_05]: But if I did what you said or what we just kind of agreed upon when I was like, okay, [SPEAKER_05]: I have a map.

[SPEAKER_05]: I have a welcome to give you 20 minute brief.

[SPEAKER_05]: We're going to go out there.

[SPEAKER_05]: We're going to look at what this train feature looks like in real life.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, man.

[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_05]: See that now.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's what it looks like in the map cool.

[SPEAKER_05]: And when you see that when you go.

[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, so that means if that's what a ravine looks like.

[SPEAKER_05]: So that means a.

[SPEAKER_05]: A finger is going to look like this and you start, oh yeah, yeah, and then you see, yeah, here's a finger, there's a value, so yes, doing a hybrid methodology is the best way in everything.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's funny because you see, you know, we think of this classic, like let's say a plumber, for example, get this classic old school plumber, you've seen it all, you know, very little, you know, [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, and if you need the wizard to come and solve your problem that no one else could call you call this guy, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: But meanwhile, he only has like a high school, barely high school education, whatever.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then you see the flip side where skies got all the degrees and all the accolades and graduate top of his class, you know, all the stuff that then he gets out in the field and, you know, he didn't know what to do because he has no, he can't connect the dots to like what happens day-to-day versus what happened in the classroom kind of a thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so yeah, that hybrid makes sense.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's why you did so I think you did so got to be the hybrid too Like you want you I could take you in a classroom or I could even even look like a High-tech 3D like Simulator where you're watching moves happen I could show them to you, but you're when you got on the mat you would sock [SPEAKER_00]: Right, and but that's why you just do so good is because that's how jiu-jitsu is kind of learned.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's like sparring a such a big part of it is spark, but I To remove the instructional part is also doesn't make sense because I can show you in 30 seconds [SPEAKER_05]: how to do an arm lock and it's going to it's going to propel you if I just trying to let you figure it out.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, that's genuine happening.

[SPEAKER_05]: So we want to find that balanced hybrid ground where we're teaching moves and then applying the moves.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's just like playing an instrument like you have to learn the notes and then once you learn the notes now you can make the night can make songs you can you can bend the notes there's all kinds of stuff you can do but like on a guitar you [SPEAKER_05]: Now, you could explain to me the theory of chords and let me try and figure it out.

[SPEAKER_05]: It would take me years, or you could show me the chords and show me the theory.

[SPEAKER_05]: And now, I'm in a totally different spot, better spot.

[SPEAKER_05]: So, yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: And that's what we're doing, and speaking of getting stronger mentally, physically.

[SPEAKER_05]: spiritually, morally.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Do you know off the top of your head and I say this because my daughters started implementing this rest being so you know the video you and Hannah did ran a you and ran a did and ran a said I'm recalling it It doesn't taste like she's good.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it does.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, did you try it?

[SPEAKER_00]: Telling my daughter makes that every single day from watching that video and she was like, oh my gosh But um, do you know do you remember off the top of your head?

[SPEAKER_00]: What is in that?

[SPEAKER_00]: I know there's more powder.

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[SPEAKER_05]: I know cuz cuz cuz coach ran has been just and my wife too There's just like Get into that Greek yogurt just like a bunch of protein and Greek yogurt and when you put it doesn't taste good by itself But when you put milk in there, milk powder [SPEAKER_00]: Good to go.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and Moke and I think that's it.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think she puts anything else in there.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, but oh, she's probably in a bunch of that [SPEAKER_00]: But surprisingly, it's really good macros to know in a great macros.

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[SPEAKER_00]: The, the, the, the.

[SPEAKER_00]: style, whatever.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's the only time I'm going to say it by the way.

[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe.

[SPEAKER_00]: So you know how back in the day.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's get after it, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: And we love get after it.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's the only way to handle a bunch of stuff is to get after it.

[SPEAKER_00]: It seems same.

[SPEAKER_00]: But you know, back in the day when JP, you said something to JP, like hey, put your name on the back of your home and [SPEAKER_00]: So, in that cannon, JP, how he put his name in the back of the helmet, was it like a Sharpie pin?

[SPEAKER_00]: This is what tape, it's like this black tactical looking tape, I like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, one of the videos I made and it had JP's title on it, I was like, oh, let me make JP's name like that, so it looks like the tactical tape on it, and I was like, probably that's freaking looks good.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, years later, [SPEAKER_00]: That's what they get after it is like it's made out of tape.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's what you're doing.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's the history behind it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, it's out three colors on there.

[SPEAKER_00]: Not to mention all the other stuff, the new good, the new discipline equals freedom.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're still way we're up and running.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, we're stocked up.

[SPEAKER_00]: So again, you want to represent on the path.

[SPEAKER_00]: JoccoStore.com.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you want the shirt locker, that's a subscription.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's a new design.

[SPEAKER_00]: A little bit outside the box.

[SPEAKER_00]: We already knew that, but boom, we're up and running with that one, have been for years.

[SPEAKER_00]: So go in there, click on short locker.

[SPEAKER_00]: See what it's all about.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you're down for that, get a new design every month, it's a good one.

[SPEAKER_05]: Check.

[SPEAKER_05]: And speaking of check, check out the book, put your legs on by Rob Jones.

[SPEAKER_05]: Check out Need to Lead by Dave Burke, check out all the books I've written about leadership.

[SPEAKER_05]: Check out the kids books I've written, you can check all that stuff out.

[SPEAKER_05]: Um, whatever you buy books really, and then we have echelonfront.com, a leadership consult you.

[SPEAKER_05]: We talk about all these principles of leadership and how they apply to everything in your business, in your life.

[SPEAKER_05]: If you need help inside your business, check out echelonfront.com.

[SPEAKER_05]: We also have it in.

[SPEAKER_05]: And online training academy, because these are skills, these are skills, just like field martial, wave, vell said, these are skills that you can hone, get better at, but you can't just do it on your own, you have to put effort into it.

[SPEAKER_05]: So check out extremeownership.com if you want to learn these skills and then of course on top of all that.

[SPEAKER_05]: If you want to help out service members, active and retired, you want to help out their families, want to help out gold star families.

[SPEAKER_05]: Check out Mark Lee's mom, Mama Lee.

[SPEAKER_05]: She's got an amazing charity organization.

[SPEAKER_05]: If you want to donate, or you want to get involved, go to America's mighty warriors.org.

[SPEAKER_05]: You can also check out heroes and horses.org and find the Jimmy Mays organization beyond the brotherhood.org.

[SPEAKER_05]: For us, if you want to connect with us, you can check out [SPEAKER_05]: I'm at Jaco Willink, Echo Tateco Charles, just be careful, man.

[SPEAKER_05]: That algorithm, it'll grab you and not let go.

[SPEAKER_05]: Thanks once again to our military personnel, standing watch on the front lines of freedom around the world and protecting our way of life here at home.

[SPEAKER_05]: Also, thanks to our police law enforcement Firefighters, Paramedics, EMTs, dispatchers, correctional officers, board patrol, secret services, well as all other first responders who stand the watch on the home front protecting us.

[SPEAKER_05]: And everyone else out there, let's just remember this line from the field marshal.

[SPEAKER_05]: Quote discipline is teaching which makes a man do something which he would not unless he had learned that it was the right, the proper, and the expedient thing to do and quote.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's the discipline.

[SPEAKER_05]: You're not going to want to do it.

[SPEAKER_05]: but the discipline requires that you do it anyways.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's the discipline is the right and proper thing to do, which is why we do it every single day.

[SPEAKER_05]: And that's all I've got for tonight.

[SPEAKER_05]: And until next time, DeZecco and Jocco out.