Dave Grenier: You might be on the roof and you might be harnessed in but my photo might not show the harness.

There's that context of like that gets posted to TRG and somebody is like, Hey, he's not being safe, having that Pro to No, oh, let me just move three feet this way and kind of tilt now I can see the harness that's really important.

Tyler Grace: Welcome to today's modern craftsmen podcast.

Everybody says, take more pictures of your work, but nobody tells you what to shoot, when to shoot it, or what to do with it after so today, we are going to break that down so your photos actually work for you, instead of just living in your phone.

If you guys and girls, have been seeing a change in the modern craftsman content lately, we have a new partner who's been handling all things, editing content, social, Instagram, YouTube, alongside Doug and Paul over at motif media.

And that is Dave.

You may have seen him comment on YouTube posts.

Don't worry.

He is a vetted, approved commenter.

He is part of the modern craftsman Team.

Today, we have him on the podcast to talk about photography in construction and how you could do a better job of documenting your projects to help protect your business, market your business, and hopefully make yourself some money.

Please enjoy this podcast and Dave, thanks for everything.

This podcast is brought to you by NA HB.

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Tyler Grace: Welcome to the modern craftsman Podcast.

Today we have on a special guest from motif media.

So if you haven't noticed, in the past couple of months, the podcast, our editing, our thumbnails, our YouTube is really taking a different shift, where we're putting a fair amount of effort into that.

But that is not because of Nick and myself.

That is because of our new editor, Dave, who is the guest on today's podcast.

So Dave, why don't you quickly introduce yourself, a little bit about who you are, what you're doing, what your goal is for the podcast, and then we'll, we'll dive into today's topic.

Yeah.

Dave Grenier: Thanks, Tyler.

Um.

Um, yeah.

I hope people have been enjoying that kind of shift in like, my like, the thumbnails, I'm having fun time with, with grabbing you guys and changing the style up and everything.

But yeah, I'm Dave.

I'm from motif.

I'm one of the editors.

I do some other stuff too for but for those that don't know, that didn't see the Doug interview or interviews, you guys have had them on a couple times.

Yeah, we have, yeah, yeah.

So we do a lot of motif media.

So we do a lot of media based stuff, you know, filming residential construction, and doing the NS builders stuff for people that are familiar with that the site visits, lots of podcasting, so this kind of stuff.

So that's kind of my realm right now, is, I'm I'm trying to do my best by you guys.

Tyler Grace: Yeah, so Doug had always been editing the podcast and handling that Nick and I basically want to be able to show up record and not have that much else to do with it, which still proves to be difficult from time to time, but Doug was always handling things.

Obviously, there's a lot going on with modern craftsmen behind the scenes, with NS builders and everything else.

So when did you come on with Doug to start handling the bulk of what we have you doing at this point?

Dave Grenier: Oh, boy.

So probably about for modern craftsman is, like, maybe four or five months ago, okay, yeah, there's a he, he did a stellar job with setting stuff up, and then, like, I just kept things the same way that he was doing them.

Because, you know, I mean, he's the boss and, you know, but he gave me, he's, like, I asked him, I think the first time was when I think the thumbnail was, think small, like you were talking about just like, you know, reducing you don't need to, like, go crazy with, with, you know, all these grandiose plans and, and I, I asked him, I was like, Hey, can I make Tyler, like, really small?

And then the text is above his head, and he's like, yeah, have at it.

And so that was my first creative freedom.

So whenever that was, I think that was about four or five months ago, though,

Unknown: yeah, and I think Doug, for the most part, is probably in the same page as Nick and myself.

Where it's we're absolutely fine to hand over the rain some, but it's tough to find somebody who wants to actually have that responsibility or be a part of this more so than Hey, we want to show up.

We want to catch a paycheck, which I think has been really nice for you.

And I know that you were apprehensive at first reaching out to me, or feeling that you were overstepping your bounds with some of the freedoms that you have, but I know for Nick and myself, we've been super pumped to have you on board with what you're doing and pushing the YouTube and and switching things up as far as content goes, keeping us in line, on task, in check.

So it's been, it's been super nice for us, so I definitely appreciate that.

What, what's your background in this industry like?

Is this what you went to school for?

Is this what you always

Dave Grenier: wanted to do?

So when it comes to media stuff, yeah.

Okay, so when I was a teenager, I looked up to my brother, and he was like, he idolized him, and he was into photography.

And so I started getting into photography, and then my dad said, You're never gonna make any money with that kid, so you got to do something real.

So I let that go for 20 years.

In the irony of that is, my dad had done photography, and maybe that's why he didn't want me to pursue it.

Because, yeah, you know, I mean, like, especially back then, it was film cameras, you know, and it's like, maybe you'll do a wedding, maybe you'll do some portraits or something like that.

But it wasn't really feeding the stuff anyway.

So I was out in California for a number of years.

I'm originally from New England, but I was out there for 10 years, and I had the opportunity in a graphic design realm.

I was a graphic designer, and there was a construction thing that was going on, and we needed photos.

And then the construction workers, they're they're doing, they're swinging the hammers.

They don't care about photos, but they're like, We need photos.

And so, you know, we were getting these, like, you know, iPhone pictures, iPhones fine, but like, the way that they were doing it is, like, they're swinging the hammer and, like, taking the photo at the same time, so it's blurry and whatever.

And I told my boss, I'm like, Hey, listen, I can I just go out with my camera, which was, wasn't a stellar camera, but it was better than, you know, and and my job would be to go take photos.

And so that's kind of how it was born.

I went into design because I really liked Photoshop and video capture, and I knew that that was a part of the graphic design sphere.

But I have since shifted to like fully this.

So it's funny how that kind of like you start to go down a path and meander.

Unknown: What was the intent of taking photos for this builder?

Was it for marketing purposes?

Was it for clients?

Like, why did they have you taking photos of work?

Dave Grenier: Yeah, this is a.

Commercial.

This was a municipality.

I think this one was roadway improvement project, if I'm not mistaken.

And it was one of those, like, it had public funding, like taxpayer dollars, so they had to have certain things and like, show progress.

And there's also a cya of that, you know, the cover your ass exercise, yep.

And so it was that.

And so it was part promotional, part insurance policy, essentially.

Unknown: So you basically pitched me the idea for this episode, which I think is a really great idea.

And obviously it's right up your alley, but it's photography, videography within construction, and why it's important, why it matters for builders.

And like you said, there's obviously, there's the marketing aspect of it, there's the CYA, the cover your ass to be able to communicate the quality of the work that you're putting out.

And it's not, it's not just about being an influencer, right?

You don't need a full time staff to be able to do this.

But we just kind of want to dig into a few of the reasons why photography and videography is so important for people like myself, or like Nick or just the construction industry in general.

Yeah.

I think part of the reason why

Dave Grenier: I wanted to bring this up was because, like, I was scrolling through Reddit, and I'm seeing all these different questions people asking, like, contractors, they're like, Hey, can I just use an iPhone?

Can I, you know, do I need this?

Do I need to buy a DSLR, you know?

And it's to me, all that stuff is super simple, and it's really, you can use your phone.

There's a few things that you need to know and like, these are some best practices.

But depending on what you're trying to do, like, are you trying to are you like a, like, one, one guy, or a very small crew, and you don't have the resources to hire a whole team?

Do you not need a whole team?

I mean, not, not everybody needs, you know, a whole team for like, a 45 white oak project, let's say, Sure, no.

And so it's kind of demystifying and adding that value of like, yeah, you can use your phone.

And here's a couple things to

Unknown: know in an insurance perspective, right?

How would you suggest kind of covering your ass from ensuring that everything's being done the way it needs to be done like that.

To me, this is where cell phone photos obviously are more than enough, right?

Where you're just using a phone to document what's being done.

How would you suggest builders going and doing that like, at what point during the job?

What should the sequencing be like?

Is there anything that they should look out for when you're looking at photographing in a job, a job, just from a protection standpoint,

Dave Grenier: yeah, so that the most important thing is pre construction, so get the pre existing conditions and like everything.

So let's, let's say that you're, I don't know, redoing a dining room.

Maybe it's just like a one little job, but you want to take stuff of like, where are you going on site?

Are you going to have to bring your trucks into the backyard?

Are you going to have, are you going to be putting your trucks on their driveway?

So, like, take full pictures?

Just it doesn't have to be, like, every five feet or something, but you want to be able to when the client, when the customer, comes back and says, Hey, there's a new crack in my driveway.

That's because your truck was 10,000 pounds.

It's like that crack was there before.

So that's, you know, and, and it's one of those, like, damn it, I wish that I did that.

And it's, it's, you can, I would say photos, but you could also take a quick video too.

So you're taking these snapshots, and just take the pre existing conditions, and also take a video.

And that's where, if you hold your your phone, like this versus vertical.

Vertical is only good really for like Instagram reels or YouTube shorts, tick, tock, whatever.

This is good for everything.

And this is one horizontal or landscape, yeah, oh, yeah.

Sorry, yeah.

Some people are only gonna be listening so you're holding your phone sideways, so you have that, like normal TV kind of landscape image that's so important.

And then also not pinch zooming, you know, like you pinch your screen and you zoom in that degrades the photo.

Because what you're doing is it's just a digital a digital zoom.

So you're just taking what your image is, and you're just, you're basically cropping it.

And you want the highest res that you can get.

So you just want to, kind of like, just move closer, so you zoom with your feet, as we say, sure, but it's, it's small stuff like that.

That really helps.

So the pre construction and then post, at the very least, the post construction, yeah,

Unknown: pre construction, for me, is huge, especially renovating.

I literally just the project that we're on, it was a flip, and the driveway is a mess.

The existing driveway cracks everywhere there.

There's no sort of.

Uh, reinforcement in there.

So day one, it was taking videos of the driveway, and it's a client I've worked for for 15 years.

It's the second house that I've worked on for her.

But it's too regardless of the relationship, I just want to protect myself.

And you think of it, it's the same type of thing.

When you go to get a rental car, right?

And they walk you around the rental car.

They mark what's wrong with it, they take photos, they time stamp it, whatever needs to be done, just to protect yourself.

So when you bring that back, if there's an issue, you're protected.

So yeah, pre construction for me, is huge.

Post construction also very important.

I think communication play plays a huge fact in that as well.

But it's hard to argue with a photograph, and I know many times that I've relied back on photographs during a job, when I'm closing a job in during roughs, I always like before we close the walls up, I'm always documenting everything that's in the walls, so that when we get to finish stage, when we're hanging cabinets, before we we hang a photo, whatever it is, I know exactly what's in those walls.

I'll even bring tape measures out and just get reference points for what's in those walls, just that I could document everything.

And again, this is mostly for my own purposes.

These aren't photos that are going to live on the internet.

They're not going on my website.

It's just to protect myself in some way, shape or form.

These are not pretty photos that I'm looking to market my work, but there is an opportunity, even with just an iPhone.

I mean, I made much of my marketing through Instagram with just whatever iPhone I had at that point prior to using any sort of regular camera.

And there's a lot of times it's still everything that I'm posting these days is still just an iPhone.

Like do you feel that an iPhone is enough for what most people need to document their projects, yeah?

Dave Grenier: So, I mean, I would say yes with an asterisk.

Of It depends, of course.

So it's like, depending on what you want this for.

So if it's just a CYA, then yeah, you an iPhone or an Android or whatever.

With modern day ones, they're great.

Don't use the pinch zoom.

Like I said, that's one of the worst things to that point to like, if you have a 1x which is, like your your base, and you want to zoom in, if you have like a 2x or 5x or something, that's an optical zoom.

So that's fine.

So if you're trying to get, like, an image of the roof or, you know, like the the eaves or something, and you're like, Well, I obviously can't zoom up there with my feet, so just use that.

But the phone in general, yeah, 100% if it's supposed to be like a big portfolio piece that I would say maybe try to get a better camera.

But then again, it's not all about the camera.

It's about so many other things, like lighting.

Lighting is number one, you know, sensor size is another thing, but we don't have to get into that.

It's fine on the phone if you have the good lighting it.

Tyler Grace: So I've shot a handful of stuff that's been professionally lit, and it's insane the amount of time that it takes to do that.

Or I mean, I'm used to just shooting stuff on the fly.

A lot of times,

Unknown: the mindset is, right?

People are looking at this on their phone.

They're not watching it on TV.

They're not even looking at it a computer.

They're watching it on a two and a half by six inch screen.

So how well does it need to be lit?

But then I've been on jobs that are intended to be commercials, and the amount of effort that goes it's like, here's the shot, here's what we're going to talk about.

We have everything set up.

And they're like, All right, now we need 45 minutes to light it, and they're just moving lights, bringing in different diffusers, covering stuff up, getting rid of shadows.

It's insane the amount of time and effort that goes into lighting a space.

Dave Grenier: Well, yeah, yeah, and yeah, it can get crazy.

It can get nuts, but at the end of the day, it's really, we're masters of light.

That's what photography is.

Is just studying light.

And then what box do you use to capture that light?

And how do you kind of, like frame the light, or whatever

Unknown: is, are there like for people who are looking to hey, I don't have a marketing budget.

Yeah, I want to get some nice photos just for my instagram or my social feed, or I want to take some quick video on my phone before I do anything more to that.

Like, from a lighting perspective, what are some things that somebody could look out for, either, hey, like, use natural light.

Don't use natural light this time of day is going to be best for you.

Like, what are just some basic things?

Or are there resources out there that people could look into just to get the best out of what they're working with?

Yeah.

Dave Grenier: So two of the number one things, natural light is king.

And if you have.

It, depending on the look that you're going for, if you have, like, curtains, the shear so it kind of, like diffuses the light a little bit.

Yeah, a lot of times that's a really good way to start.

And that way you don't have the hard light coming in.

And, you know, Golden Hour is always good.

Golden hours, you know, as it's sun setting, and you get those like really nice yellows.

But it really depends on on what your what mood you're going for it.

But natural light number one, and then if you don't have natural light, I would try to have windows open as much as you can, just so you can have as much extra light in there.

But if you're using work lights, work lights are kind of terrible in a lot of ways, because, like, they'll they'll flicker, but depending on on what you're if you're not doing a lot of video, then it's not really going to be a big deal, hopefully.

Again, the asterisks,

Unknown: but a lot of the work lights are also very white, which, depending on what you're shooting, may like, if it's not a white subject or a gray those like bluish white lights can make other colors look absolutely horrible.

Dave Grenier: Oh yeah, yeah, it makes it look sick.

But that's where you could if you're like, really on a budget, and you're like, Hey, man, I have nothing for, like, I can't get any other lights or whatever, which you totally get.

No construction worker wants to run around with, you know, aperture light in the back of their car.

But if you use that light and you reflect it instead of, like, having it shine on the couch, let's say if you have it bounced up to the ceiling or against the wall.

If you have like a blue wall, then it's gonna add a little bit more of a blue cast, or, like a yellow, right?

So it's not gonna be as harsh of a sickly white.

Unknown: Yeah, I feel like something changed with the iPhones, definitely Instagram, where they're color huge hues maybe a couple of years ago change like I feel that they always used to look better when you would bring in cooler temperatures, and now it's different.

I feel like it's a lot warmer and something changed.

But I've noticed that it takes a little bit more effort to get those photos now to be the right color temperature for me.

What I've what I've lucked out with on this project that I'm working now, this porch project that, like golden hour that you're talking about, I feel like it normally the project doesn't look great from the the warmer tones we have with the wood, with the white and everything else outside.

But when it right before it gets dark, if I take photos, I'm like, yo.

These look super dope, like, but there's just a very small window from when, like, yeah, like, it's, it's right when I'm cleaning up.

So like, if I don't clean up before, then it just looks like a messy job site.

But like, if I can clean up before that time, then I have, like, 10 minutes where I can go around and shoot the job.

And it looks so nice, but it's insane, because rest of day I'll take a photo, the same thing, and I'm not editing anything.

It's pretty much like, maybe I'll adjust some in Instagram, but a lot of them are just going right to my stories.

But like, when the light is right, I don't need to do anything to them, and they look great.

Dave Grenier: Yeah, no, it's it's crazy.

And I always want to say to people like, don't stress on the light.

And really don't stress on the light.

I mean, get the image.

That's the big thing.

Yeah, but the right lighting is just so man, it makes it sing.

Unknown: Are there?

Are there decent apps or software that you can use, that somebody could invest in that's not over the top, just to post edit some of their stuff, where it's like, I don't have a background in photography.

I don't understand how light works, but I could get some sort of program that's better than Instagram just to edit and post some of the photos that I'm taking.

Dave Grenier: Yeah, and I would definitely say don't edit on the platform, on Instagram, because then you you can't download, I mean, take a screenshot of it, but like, you've done it and you've baked it in for Instagram, but if you wanted to use that photo for your portfolio, yeah, then it's like, Oh, hey guys, go to my Instagram and you'll see this stuff.

I really like Lightroom, and Lightroom does have a subscription, but they also have free version.

Yeah, it's super powerful.

And so for me, I really like Lightroom because it lets me sync with my computer.

And then also, especially on the computer side, there's a lot of ways that you can, like, organize stuff for like by job.

You can add tags, meta tags.

So it's like, oh, this is Canton job, you know, and this is you can even like, Oh, this is Canton and this was the dining room or whatever.

And so in that way, you could search for it later.

That's my number one.

But it doesn't have to be Lightroom.

There's a ton of different apps.

Even on Apple photos, you have some set.

Control to edit, which you can get away with that really well.

Like, there's some creative filters, and there's the auto and then, like, the just playing with sliders, yeah.

Unknown: Do you have like, a go to for that?

As far as there's a sequence that they basically have it laid out that you click from one to the next to the next?

Is there a better sequence that you find works to go and edit something.

Is there just case by case?

You're talking about like, like, on on photos or whatever.

Like, I kind of have a system for when I go through of what I like to edit, generally, what works well for me, but a lot of times it shows or even on Instagram, right?

If you're just editing something to put on Instagram.

You're not concerned about portfolio or being able to preserve that image or use it elsewhere, where it's like you're going to do this first, then this first.

It basically walks you through that.

But there's certain things that I never touch and certain things that I do.

Do you feel on Apple photos that there's like a go to system that you have for getting a decent product with some of the edits that you can make in there.

Dave Grenier: Yeah, yeah.

And, I mean, it works for any Android device too.

It's they're all going to have basically the same kind of slider system.

My knowing what your style is makes a big difference.

But like for me, I, like a lot of my construction photos to be usually, what I'll do, knowing my phone, is, I'll bring down the blacks a little bit so, like the the shadowy areas get a little bit darker, yeah, and then the highlights, depending on what's or I'll bring up the whites just a little bit.

So that adds a little bit of contrast.

Rather than just going to the contrast slider and just bringing contrast up, you control like, Oh, I like the the whites up two points, and I like the shadows down 10 points, you know, versus a one for one, yeah.

And then I'll usually bring up the shadows a little bit.

There's the blacks, whites, shadows and highlights.

Those are the my four main ones that I'll do.

So the highlights, I'll maybe bring down a little bit, and that's going to be like your skies, or light bulbs or whatever is the brightest thing in the in the image, shadows, I'll just bring those up.

It might sound counterintuitive, because you bring down the blacks, but the shadows up, but it creates a nice look that I like.

Yeah.

And then there's a temperature.

There's two other things for color, there's temperature, and then tint.

So temperature is going to be white and blue, or, I'm sorry, yellow and blue.

And so if you want it's like warmth on, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

So you just bring that yellow slider up a little bit if it's a little too blue, and say, Oh yeah, that's that's getting pretty sweet, and then depending on the lighting.

So this is where work lights, or even whatever you're using, like what I'm using right now, there's usually going to be and what your your camera sensor grabs, there's your camera's gonna, by default, capture a little bit more magenta, or a little bit more size, a little bit more green, and so that's a good way to like, it's a little too red, so you just slide it the other direction.

But it's usually those four that I mentioned, the shadows, highlights, blacks and whites.

And then I think for a lot of construction guys, if you add up clarity, just a little bit, just a touch of clarity, or texture.

Both of those things kind of add some more definition.

So like, if you're showing, if you're not trying to show, like a glowy, like beautiful dining room, that's like, Oh, look at how soft this is.

And, you know, but if you're showing, like a deck that'll show more of the grain.

You don't want to go crazy, because if you go it's just little bits.

Just keep it simple, because it's like, subtlety is key with all this stuff.

Unknown: So a lot of times, when I go and edit something, and I'm I might get rid of some of those shadows,

Tyler Grace: I'll end up adding even on Instagram photos.

I'm looking at it right now.

I'll add some vignette which, like, brings the shadows to the outside of the photo, so you can, like, still brighten up the photo some, but then get a little bit of a contrast, but it's probably not on the main source of whatever you're photographing.

I think that that's always worked well for me, where it's like, if you don't have great light, and you're trying to brighten it up some, and you're you're adding brightness, and then getting rid of some of the shadows, you can bring in a little more depth by adding some of that vignette, and it just kind of hits the edges of the photo, which works well just For like, quick editing in even just like the Instagram platform.

But I would suggest people just take photos, take take photos of the same thing throughout different times of the day and see what looks good like you said, Try with different lighting.

Turn the lighting around.

I've.

In my living room right now we're renovating, and the color just photographs terribly.

But there are certain times of the day that it looks better.

It's it's like a pinkish hue.

And if you, if you photograph it with the wrong light, it just looks like a really terrible beige.

Unknown: So it's like a very distinct time window that I can photograph in there that looks decent, and it has to be with natural light, like without natural light, it just doesn't really look good at all.

But I think people experimenting with light and moving things around,

Tyler Grace: you have to take some time to do it.

And I think that that's probably a challenge for most contractors, right?

Like, how do I convince a contractor, in your mind, if they want to photograph something on their own, that they need to devote some time to it?

Dave Grenier: I mean, it depends on, it's just kind of like swinging a hammer.

It's, do you want to get better at pounding this nail in and two hits, you know, you hit, set it, and then, pow, like, I I built a deck with my dad, because I was a tradesman with him for a long time, and I was the first deck that I was part of.

And he's like, he was a roofer, and he did everything.

So he would just go, Tink, pow.

Tink, pow.

He just keep going, and I'm going there.

Tink tink, tink, tink Tink Tink.

He's like, you're gonna stop playing with it, you know?

Yeah, and it took me a while, but like, now I can, I can't do it in two hits, but maybe four, three or four,

Tyler Grace: it gets easier.

But I think that that's the same thing.

I know I used to photograph a lot more.

My social has taken somewhat of a different path now, but I would photograph so many details of my projects, and I would that be like my, my the point in the day where I was ready to start settling down and disconnect from work.

It was just part of my routine to walk the job and just take some photographs of what's going on, what I did, I clean up.

It was just part of the process.

And when you in, when you integrate that into your day, right where it's like, I'm going to clean up.

Everything's going to be nice and neat.

I'll set some lights up, and I'll take some photographs of the project.

It it was a non issue for me.

When it becomes hard, is when I don't do it consistently, and it just seems like it's one more thing to do, and then I'm not spending the right amount of time doing it.

It's, it's never been something that I've been able to just rush right where I'm just gonna go and snap a couple photos, and these are gonna look great.

It takes some time to be able to do and to get an eye for that.

And I, I do think anyone can do it.

I think that you just, you have to spend the time doing it and get a feel for what it should be like,

Dave Grenier: like you said, bringing it right to like, okay, it's part of cleanup.

So I clean up and then I do it, but it's also, who's your audience, what are you trying to get out of posting?

And so maybe bringing them into the cleanup process.

Like, maybe you don't have time, and maybe you're just like, you're cleaning up.

And you do have your phone with your vacuum, you know?

And it's like, you're just taking an image, and like, trying to get this cleaned up, you know, your caption could be like, I'm trying to get this job cleaned up so that the homeowner has a nice place today, so they're not walking through zeddest, you know.

So it doesn't have to be these glamorous shots, is what I'm saying.

And then the other piece of advice to kind of finish on, because I don't know if I answered your question fully earlier.

If you take three shots of something, so you take the wide angle, which is the establishing shot, it's like we're in the backyard.

So you take this, you step way back, take an image.

Here's the house, here's the deck that we're building.

We're in the backyard.

Then you get a little bit closer, so it's your mid shot.

And so you Okay, now we're just focused on the deck pretty much.

And then you take your detail shot, your close shot, and you'd be like, I want to show the steps, or the stringers or something that you're focused on working on.

And like, you have now three shots of the same thing, and you're bringing people into the story of what you're doing.

And one of the things about that, too, is if, if you are focusing that fine.

So if you're going to do the wide, medium and close, you want to kind of do it from the same angle.

So then that way they it's basically like you're taking 10 steps forward, taking extra take 10 steps.

So then the person knows they can follow that.

And it's not like now you're 180 degrees, or you're upside down or something, you could still do that, but you need to give them some perspective.

Perspective, yeah,

Unknown: when do you think it should be necessary for you, or, like, non negotiable, to hire something out to get professionally photographed,

Dave Grenier: if it's something where you're trying to add this to your your portfolio, so you can show people and say, you know, like, I want, I want more of these types of gigs and and I want to make sure that, you know people that see this.

There's no question between me and Steve down the street.

It's like, you know, like, yeah, we both.

Have good photos because we're taking them ourselves with our phone.

But like, this guy knows how to light, like you said, you know, and, and we're even just understands the light.

And, I mean, professionals are, this is what we live and breathe.

I mean, yeah, this is just what I do.

I love it.

Unknown: So it's, I haven't gotten many jobs photographed in a while because I was using it really, to market my business and to get more work.

And then I got overwhelmed with work, not just because of that, but just the way that my business has progressed and what I'm doing now that I wasn't really looking to market myself that much more, I haven't gotten anything photographed in a while, other than just myself or or editorial pieces that we're doing, I feel like I have enough opportunity with with motif and the other companies that I work with.

But I used to be so excited for days we would go to photograph stuff, but then it takes so long between like the staging and the lighting and the framing and discussing if you should move this plant two inches this way, then I'm like, I can't be here anymore.

It makes such a big difference.

But I just I don't have an eye if I see it in the camera, you show me two things, or you show me two photographs.

I can tell you which one I feel looks better, but I can't frame it in real life that way.

I just have to take a bunch of photos, and then I can look back afterwards and say, Okay, this one, like, compositionally looks good, or the lighting in this one is better, but I can't tell you how to get there.

So while people are doing that process, to me, it just seems like it's just taking forever and for what?

But then when you see the end result, it's like, okay, I understand it now, it may, it does make such a big difference, but it takes a lot of time.

Like, it's not a fast process, yeah?

Dave Grenier: Well, and photographers also know too how to get the best out of what you currently have.

So like, if you're even running, gunning, and you don't have lights, and I've done a lot of that on construction sites, because it's like, Oh, I gotta jump down into the trenches, and I just gotta get this guy swinging the hammer, you know, and I gotta jump back out so I can't set lights for that, you know, in the way.

But understanding your gear and, you know, having the right, you know, like, the right lenses that get the most out of the situation, because there's certain lenses, they're really expensive, and it's like, okay, well, I can shoot in low light, and that coupled with shooting in raw versus JPEG, and now, when I'm out and on my computer, then I can really push and pull those, yeah, so much more and get the highlights, you know, the whole thing.

And so knowing that it's kind of like you had mentioned on a it might have been a midweek, or it might have been talking to to to Nick, but I think it was a midweek that you had mentioned, like, basically the time to hire an accountant.

Sure is like, when it's costing you more, either in frustration, or it's like, I could be out there doing, you know, doing more marketing, or I could be doing these other things and just like, or be with my family, I don't have time to study what, you know, 24 mil versus 70 mil is, what is that?

Why do I care?

You know?

And it's like, that's my language, you know.

Tyler Grace: So I look at it from a lot of times in a job when I don't have answers, but I'm looking to make progress.

I need to make a decision to move the job forward, and I need to leave that door open a tiny little bit in order to set myself up for success in the future.

And I think that a lot of times people with their photography and the way that they're shooting it, and a professional can do that where it may not be ideal in every single way, shape or form, but they're going to shoot that in a way that they can correct it in post and leave themselves some openings for how, how that's going to look best.

Even though lighting not be perfect, might not be perfect, some of the staging may not be perfect, but I think that they're affording themselves an opportunity for the best product possible.

So assuming that you're taking a ton of these photographs, right, I and I'll look on my phone right now, because most of my stuff is is on my phone, but I have, let's see, I have 108,000

Unknown: photos on my phone, not organized in any way, shape or form.

So let's talk about what somebody like myself could be doing on a daily basis, where I'm taking all of these phones or all of these photos on my phone and organizing them.

Dave Grenier: Yeah, so the this is where Lightroom comes in.

Again, I use Lightroom.

I have hundreds of 1000s of photos and from different jobs, from different eras, you know.

And so when I import into Lightroom, and Lightroom is a subscription, there's other things out there that you could use that are gonna it's basically a catalog that you can also do editing.

In.

But I really like the catalog feature of it.

That's really the biggest reason why I use it.

But if you hook up your phone onto your computer, let's say you have a Mac or, you know, Android to Windows, it'll find like your your iPhone, and say, Hey, do you want to, do you want to upload these, or do you want to download these onto your hard drive?

And you know you want to have an external hard drive, because your your hard drive is going to fill up, at least, that's what I found.

But when you're importing and you're at Canton, and you say, is the dining room, right?

So you can take your 200 photos, or whatever you took that day, and then or two photos could be just two photos.

And you know, you put in the keyword section, and you say, like, Canton comma, Massachusetts, comma, dining room comma, you know, whatever makes it easy for you to remember in the future, like five years down the road, like I did a job in Canton.

What was it?

You just do the little search and it'll pop up all your Canton stuff.

You'd be like, Oh, that was a dining room, right?

Okay, well, let me just type in dining room, you know?

And so you can really call that down, yeah.

And that's the biggest thing, because if it's just living on your phone, it dies on your phone pretty much, at least for me.

And if I don't upload them, then I don't know where to go, really searching for them later.

And it doesn't have to be Lightroom.

That's just been my favorite Lightroom.

You don't have to get the full Adobe Suite.

I just want to clarify that, because Lightroom has a photography plan, which is way cheaper.

And you can even do like, I think Amazon might do it where you get, like, you prepay for the year, and it's like 120 bucks, basically 10 bucks a month.

And I mean, when it comes to, I mean, that's 120 bucks for, sorry, for the year, it's 120 bucks for the year.

And, like, that's an investment, I think anybody Yeah, you know, I mean,

Tyler Grace: that's, I mean, with the cost of everything today, that's a meal out, yeah?

All right, so I have, I have an Osmo, and I struggle to upload it to photos on Apple, like, where should I be uploading all of that stuff?

Or is it downloading, downloading, downloading, uploading.

Dave Grenier: Yeah, so you download it to your computer.

So the Osmo, for those that don't know, it's a stabilizer, so that you can just, like, walk, and you don't have to do, like, any fancy footwork, you just walk.

And it just, it's a gimbal, but it should, DJI has pretty good capabilities of you just plug it into your computer, yeah, and then it'll see it as a hard drive.

And so you do that, you just, you can just drag it onto a folder, or, if you have Lightroom, you just say, like, Hey, look at the Osmo.

Yeah, I want these photos,

Unknown: and then just save it onto a folder, yeah?

Dave Grenier: Desktop, yeah, I wouldn't say the desktop.

So that's a, that's a whole nother thing, but you can do it on your desktop.

But for for future proofing yourself, you want to create a folder, even if you don't use Lightroom, just you, if you're just downloading this stuff right to your computer, create, like a master client, photo image archive.

Yeah, right.

And so you said, photo image archive, and then you have a folder for Canton.

And then you have a folder.

Have a folder in there for dining room, you know, or whatever, however you want to categorize it, but throw all that stuff in there, you can also keyword on Mac, at least you can make keywords so you could also do that.

It's a different it's a little bit different of a process, and that might work totally fine, because then you could still do the search.

Yeah.

Tyler Grace: While I was I was downloading to photos, and it was like having issues importing it, so then I was having to pull out the mini SD card and put that in through the micro USB in order to download because, like, it was freezing my computer trying to download things through Apple photos.

So then I started downloading them to a separate folder.

But then I'm like, I don't what the hell to do with these, and I probably don't want these just sitting on my computer anymore.

So I'm definitely somebody who needs to take heed of these words where it's like, there's, there's no rhyme or reason for any it's basically like, I'm, I'm gonna film something for the intent of making one piece of content with it, and then I'm never gonna use it again, which doesn't like, I think that there's opportunity for far more being that you're going through all of the effort to do that in the first place.

Dave Grenier: Yeah, well, that's another reason again, why I like a Lightroom I'm not a light ribbon salesman, but I've, had too much pain for trying to figure this stuff out over the years.

But when you import into Lightroom, you can say, Oh yeah, these 10 photos, whatever you can say, rename them to this.

And so the way that I do it is like, can underscore dining room, underscore date.

You know, and then dash whatever the image number was.

So you know, when your phone takes like, it says, I am g4, 637, I leave that on there.

So then that way I can always refer back, like, for you, right?

If you were to hire me or motif, you'd say, Dave, I really like number 4376, then I can just be like, oh, yeah, there it is.

And you don't have to be like, Oh, I like that one where it's, you're kind of looking at the couch, yeah, like this backward angle, you know, like,

Unknown: I definitely don't do a good job of organizing.

I also, I don't know if it's me, but All right, so I go and I film this stuff with fine homebuilding.

They record all of this content.

Where are they downloading that to and how doesn't that take them days to down?

Like I feel like I try and upload or download six videos to my my computer, and it takes an hour to do that.

How are people downloading all of this long form content in a reasonable amount of time?

Is it my computer?

Is my internet?

Is it me?

A combination of the three.

Dave Grenier: It's a number of things, but this is, again, why you want it, not you in this particular case.

But this is the benefit of having a professional we have the right gear so, you know, like, I have the right cable with the right port so that I can put that thing in, and it's done in minutes, hours, yeah, with your phone, if you're trying to get it off your phone and you're doing like, an airdrop, AirDrop being something that you can do.

Not everybody has it.

If you have a Mac and you have an iPhone, you can do it.

And it's just simple.

It's just like, share this to my you know, AirDrop it to my computer.

That's usually fairly quick, depending on how modern your how new your devices are.

But, yeah.

I mean, if you're just plugging it in, and you're just using a standard cable in a like, right into the into the computer, that's going to take a little while, yeah?

Or SD cards, yeah.

I mean, even the SD cards have read write speeds, so you might have a bomb ass, you know, hub that can read 10,000 you know, gigabits per second, but your SD card can only do 50.

So it's like, well, you're gonna, you know, and that's, there's so many little nuances,

Tyler Grace: where should I be using all of this content?

Like, Should I, should I be focusing on social media?

Should I be focusing on a Google page?

Should I be hiring somebody to help build my website?

Like, where should I devote my time and my efforts for all of the photography and videography that I'm investing in, either financially or from a time perspective,

Dave Grenier: as always, it depends, it depends on what your goals are, where you live currently.

It meaning, like, digitally where you live, because you don't want to jump on if you're new to using social media or, like, for your business, you don't want to just try to do all of them.

It's like trying to go to think of social media as a party, and it's like, oh, yeah, I can go to Tyler's party, and that's Instagram, right?

So I can, I can show up to Tyler's party and I can rock it out there, or I can go to Tyler's party and stay there for 15 minutes.

I can go over to Nick's party stay there for 15 minutes, and Dougs party 15 minutes, and it's like, you're not really getting a good experience.

You just kind of like, I guys buy you know.

So I'd say whatever your social is, whether that's a social media platform, like Instagram, YouTube, whatever, or if it's, you know, Google pages and or face Facebook groups are pretty popular for a lot of contractors, but wherever it is, just rock it and and know what that is?

It's hard to say.

Know what it is you can Google search, you know, like, what's the best kind of stuff for Instagram, let's say, but if it is like your Google business page, then you know, you don't need anything super fancy, but it's just

Unknown: so that being said, Do you feel that you should have the content in mind while you're shooting like i right.

I need and obviously hiring a professional is is a different story.

But say you're just going to start with your phone and you get a microphone and you're recording video, should you have an idea of where you want to be using that?

Or should you have some sort of idea in mind, so that you can use that content for multiple places, rather than, hey, my main subject, I want to, I want to populate my Google profile, but be able to use that elsewhere.

Like, how do you go into that with an idea or an understanding of what you should be capturing for what platform.

Dave Grenier: So you definitely want to have an idea of where you're going to post.

It's like having a design for a deck.

If you just start swinging the hammer and throwing wood down and be like, Oh, this, this might work.

You don't put in the wheelchair ramp that you need.

Or like it, it comes off, off square.

You know, it's Instagram.

If you're only going to post to Instagram, just shoot vertical stuff, because it really rewards that even you can post everything as a square.

But Instagram really likes having things vertical, because then you get the most real estate, so it kind of stops the scroll a little bit more.

But not everything is like that.

So, you know, it's, you know, YouTube is obviously, it's more of a video focused thing, but knowing the party you're going to go to, knowing the platform, that's number one.

But if you have the ability to, like talking about landscape, right?

I try to, I don't want to over complicate this, but if you want to be able to use this, maybe in the future for everything, I always go landscape.

And I always will shoot 4k which is overkill, like you had said, like we're just looking at this on your phone, so you don't need 4k but what 4k lets you do is, when you're in landscape mode, you can say, like, you know, it maybe it's Tyler.

That's, you know, I'm taking a video of you and you're working, hammering away or whatever.

I don't have to get as close to you to do the vertical, because I can in the edit.

I can crop that in and it'll still be really good quality.

It'll be the 1080, right that we want.

Unknown: That's where I struggle a lot of times, where I know I should be filming in landscape, but the editing on the back end and cropping, what I want out of that, if I right, I'm setting up a camera, and then maybe it's following me with the gimbal to a certain extent, the limitations of that, but if it's not, how much time do I have to spend on the back end to make sure that I'm actually cropping that in the right area where it's like so much easier just to film it vertical and set it up once, you know what I mean, where, like, this is probably just gonna live on Instagram in the first place.

So for me, that's really tough, being that I'm filming something myself, to film it in landscape, and to film it in 4k and then to be able to edit on on the back end, when I'm not moving that camera, it all makes framing the shot really difficult.

Dave Grenier: Yeah, so 4k gives you that extra flexibility in the edit, but at the end of the day, if you're trying to just get your friggin hammer swung.

And you're like, I just need to set this thing up.

And if I get what I get great, like, don't let it slow you down.

Yeah.

And if it gets to a point where it's like, I'm not liking the stuff that I'm making and I need somebody else, that's when you that's another reason to call a professional to really kind of get you past that point so you don't even have to think

Unknown: about the camera.

But that also doesn't necessarily mean that it's going to be any faster.

It just means that you're not going to be handling that aspect of it.

Dave Grenier: No, no.

But so if you were to hire somebody that is, this is another thing that's familiar with construction, photography or videography.

It's another beast.

If you have somebody I've worked with photographers in the past, that they don't, first of all, they don't have an OSHA certification, which is important depending on the situation that you're in.

So like commercial photography, you may need the OSHA certification, but at the very least understanding.

Listen, we all know that everybody always wears PPE, right?

Nobody ever doesn't wear PPE.

But having a photographer that understands, oh, this actually isn't he should be wearing earplugs for this.

So I'm not going to post that picture, or I'm not going to capture that, because I don't want to have any questions, yeah, you know.

And, and there's ways to take a photo of like you might be on the roof and you might be harnessed in, right?

But my photo might not show the harness.

And so there's that context of like that gets posted to TRG, and somebody is like, Hey, he's not being safe.

You know, he's he's gonna fall off the roof or whatever.

And, yeah, you know, there's people out there, but knowing, having that Pro to know, oh, let me just move three feet this way, and kind of tilt now I can see the harness, sure.

Like, that's really important.

Yes, it might not be any faster, but it will more than likely come up.

Tyler Grace: You guys do a nice job, and Doug does a nice job.

Paul does a nice job of not disrupting workflow.

Yeah, but it's it's different, right?

When I go and shoot something that's for a commercial or an editorial piece, where it's not necessarily scripted, but they have a creative in mind that they need to stick to, and they have a paying client and you're looking to deliver a certain message.

It's a very, very slow, comprehensive process.

And when you have somebody like.

OTF, come on, that understands, Hey, these are subcontractors we're working with.

You can't interfere with their work.

You can't slow them down.

They need to get a certain amount done in a day.

They make it a pretty seamless experience, which is nice, and they're able to still tell the story and and fit the creative and whatever is necessary for that job.

But there's, there's a huge difference between those two.

You know, I'll go and shoot something for four days that would have taken me 45 minutes to do, because you're just setting everything up, just so and multiple cameras and different angles and and voiceover and everything else where, with you guys, it's like, no, I'm still gonna get my four days worth of work done.

We're just gonna, we're gonna tell the story a different way, a more streamlined way, without making you stop and redo something and hold it and say it this way and turn the tube that way, and don't cover up this while you're squirting that out.

And I'm like, All right, I just kind of want to get something done at this point.

Dave Grenier: Yeah, well, and that's the whole thing.

It's like, you're trying to hire us to do make your job easier, so you don't have to think about the stuff, and you know that it's good, and it's like, that's the that's the thing, like having somebody who understands, listen, I'm I'm a creative but you don't work around me.

You know that's there aren't that many professional photographers that I've met, is a huge shout out.

You mentioned them, Doug and Paul.

I love working with them.

Yeah, and I'm not just saying that.

There's so many times where I'm editing something and I'm like, There's a shot that I tell Paul this all the time.

He's such a masterful DP director of photography, where, like, he's got the drone coming down through the trees and he's got a tilting up and turning at the same time.

And like, I know how that shot happens, because I've done it, but it's like, that is a hard shot to make happen.

And I'm like these, it makes my job easy as an editor, to like have such cool shots.

Tyler Grace: I think Paul is has brought a very cinematic perspective to the content that Nick's creating, which some people love, some people hate.

I think it's really cool, because I think it's it brings a really unique flavor to our industry, and it feels so much different.

And I feel that it really conveys the art behind what we do, which is really cool.

But I know some people just want to see like saw dust and hammer swinging, but I think that the cinematic stuff that you guys are creating over there is super cool, especially for our industry.

And I feel like not that many people are doing it, and it just shows how much of an art form, what we're doing, as well as what the photography and videography can be when it when it's married to the construction industry, which I think is it's a really unique take,

Dave Grenier: yeah, well, and it also really helps that Nick and and Doug are So communicative of, like, this is what I want.

So they're, like, they're real partners with, like, I really want, this is what I want.

So this is the vision.

And Douglas, like, Yep, this is how we're going to do it.

And like, he's there and he's directing stuff.

And like, yeah, you know.

Unknown: So it's cool.

I don't think Paul likes me.

I'm always screwing around on site, and He's so serious about getting stuff done.

I'm like, what if I, what if I run a jump and slide across that table?

And he's like, What are you doing here?

Go back to New Jersey.

Dave Grenier: I will say that there is some times where there's some amazing shots.

And I'm like, Oh, this is it.

These guys are walking up the steps, and they're carrying a, you know, a rug or something.

And they'll look over at the drone, or whoever, you know, or at at Paul videoing, and they'll look over and they'll like, you know, give the peace sign or something.

And I'm like, I just ruined the shot.

Yeah, I get it.

I get it.

But it's like, Oh, that would have been tremendous for exactly, you know, the background and the whole thing, yeah, yeah,

Tyler Grace: that's all right.

What do you do?

All right, so somebody who wants to get going with this, right?

They want to start documenting their projects, to cover their ass.

They want to start documenting their projects for marketing reasons and also portfolio, like, what's a list or proper sequence that you see?

Either it's Hey, get yourself this, get yourself that.

Do this once a day, be consistent, like, what's a cliff notes version of what they should be doing, yeah.

Dave Grenier: So use your phone, because it's what you got.

Don't stress on getting, you know, one of these big mirrorless cameras, right?

So just use your phone, especially because that's what you're familiar with.

You already use it every day, so you know how to hold it you're comfortable with it, get your wide, medium and close shots, and, you know, figure out whatever works for you.

As far as organization.

So does that mean that you put it into Apple photos or or just onto your hard drive, but try to format it some way that you can search for it later, make it part of your daily.

Routine, or weekly routine.

Maybe it's just, you know, at the end of the the week, and you have things cleaned up, or whatever process it is, just make it part of the routine, so that you always have something and that you can look back later.

Definitely do pre construction, because it always shows you marketing or CYA, it shows you.

This is what it looked like before.

This is what it looks like when we're done, or it looked like when we're done.

Like, look at that transition.

Because there is a lot of times where small things like caulking at the baseboards, people aren't going to remember that, oh, I didn't have caulking in there before.

There was just this gap.

But that caulking before you paint between the wall and the baseboard, that's a huge like it makes it look so much cleaner.

So if you did the pre construction, it might just be painting, right?

You might just be painting the room.

So just taking the pre construction and the post construction, so those are the phases there.

And then just share your work, whether that means sharing it on, you know, your Google business page, or Instagram, or whatever.

It doesn't have to be every week.

Just stay fairly consistent, or just use, let's say, Instagram as like your portfolio, and you know, it doesn't have to be stressful.

Tyler Grace: No, I think that's great advice.

I think a lot of times as builders, with everything that we have going on, there's the whole paralysis by analysis as well.

Whether, whether it's, it's photographing a job, whether it's dropping new content, whether it's putting out a course, it's, it's reaching out to a new designer, architect, into your design you want to work for, we come up with all these reasons why we shouldn't, or that we're not quite there.

And it's like, Hey, if you're 80% of the way there, put it out there.

You can edit it later, you can change it later, later, you can redo it later.

But you have to get the ball rolling.

You have to take the first step and then just work up from there, adapt, learn, evolve, grow.

To me that that's the biggest thing.

It's like, just get off your seat, take one step at a time, start putting it out there, and you will evolve, and you will grow, and you'll be able to see the progression in your work.

Yeah?

Dave Grenier: And Done is better than perfect.

That's a big thing.

Yeah, that's tough for a lot of us too.

We Oh, yeah, but it's a skill, you know, if you're

Unknown: waiting for it to be perfect, gives me a long time before it goes out there.

Yeah?

Sweet Dave, well, I appreciate all the insight.

Dave Grenier: Yeah, I'm glad to be on and and if anybody has any questions or specifically about the photography side of stuff, they can throw them in the comments.

Because, for those that don't know, I do comment.

I respond to comments periodically.

If it doesn't, you know, I'll say dash Dave, you know, yeah, because it might be you, it might be Nick, but if anybody has any questions, I'll be happy to field them to some degree.

I mean, I don't know how many people are going to comment, but

Tyler Grace: if there's, if you guys are commenting on YouTube social, and it's, it's a dash Dave, it's verified comment, it's been approved, yeah, yeah.

That's a lot of times he's like, I don't want to answer it.

When they think that it's you or it's me, and he's reaching out to us, asking us for answers or probing us to get on there and respond to comments.

So if you do see an answer from Dave, it is definitely a verified or legit answer.

But he's a he's definitely part of us at this point.

So we I know I know I appreciate everything you're doing.

I know Nick appreciates Doug, everyone.

It's been a breath of fresh air.

It's been fun to have somebody on board who's very excited about this.

I think that it really uplifts all of us and gets us all engaged.

Because week in a week out, it's been a long time that we're doing this and and sometimes you become stagnant and you're not growing, and it's the same thing over and over again, and bringing a fresh set of eyes to revamp things and shake things up gets us all excited all over again.

So pumped to have you be a part of the team and definitely take some stake and some ownership in this, and excited to see where all these things go.

But if you've enjoyed the recent podcast over the past four months, five months, if you've enjoyed any of the modern craftsman YouTube, what we've been putting out there, that's all thanks to Dave.

So make sure you in the comments.

Give Dave a thank you.

Dave Grenier: Well, I can do without you guys, obviously.

So all

Unknown: right, man, well, I appreciate your time.

I appreciate everything that you are doing for us, and we'll have to, we'll have to get you back on again soon.

Dave Grenier: Yeah, for sure.

Man, if anybody has questions, we can always turn it into another episode at some point.

Unknown: Sweet.

Yeah.

Thanks.

Man, thank you.

You.