[SPEAKER_01]: The molecule DMT a lot of people do DMT and they see these machine elves that show up, while they're on that molecule.

[SPEAKER_01]: Now we know, I'm going to tell you now, because I read this, the brain releases it releases the MT in very, very small amounts.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if it's all the time, but some of the time.

[SPEAKER_01]: So maybe I turn my anon or open it up just enough where I can see these things.

[SPEAKER_01]: The question with the DMT is, and this is a question that people at study those molecules say, are they in the mind or are they outside of the mind?

[SPEAKER_01]: I think we can absolutely do a test where I could be the control, have five guys on DMT.

[SPEAKER_01]: Let's see if this, we all see the same machine out for whatever shows up.

[SPEAKER_01]: Not only if we see it, right, is that machine-off because they send messages to all the people that are tripping, is it the same message everybody will get?

[SPEAKER_01]: We can test these kind of things.

[SPEAKER_00]: Tom Matt.

[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for joining me on the podcast.

[SPEAKER_00]: I am glad to be here today last.

[SPEAKER_00]: So thank you last week.

[SPEAKER_00]: You offered your services and we had a, I guess, up site vision where you did some magical stuff that I'm sure you'll get into reading, I don't know, my mind or, [SPEAKER_00]: or what exactly, I'm sure you'll give us the house what's and why's about it.

[SPEAKER_00]: But first of all, I just wanted to offer my gratitude for taking your time to do that.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's give me some things to think about over the last week.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I know great.

[SPEAKER_01]: I enjoy doing it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's funny.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that's really good way to put it when you say reading mind.

[SPEAKER_01]: I like to tell people it's definitely not mind reading.

[SPEAKER_01]: I can't read a thought that you have and I can't look at a deep dark secret.

[SPEAKER_01]: It seems like there's this middle ground that organically I can access for the reason why we'll get into in a minute.

[SPEAKER_01]: And with your permission, I can see what's there.

[SPEAKER_01]: The best thing I could say, the best way to describe it for people is, can you imagine if I could, you could have so many access your dreams, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: While you were dreaming, you could access them with the giving them permission.

[SPEAKER_01]: This is kind of like that.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's the best way to describe it.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I've been doing it with people for about six, seven months now, but I've had disabilities for about 13 years.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I call it upside vision, which is the ability to see.

[SPEAKER_01]: an interact with holographic images that are everywhere around us.

[SPEAKER_01]: When I do the reading, I get it with you.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't interact with it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I just see it and describe it.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's like a dog has the dog whistle.

[SPEAKER_01]: They can only hear for whatever reason.

[SPEAKER_01]: I can see this thing emanating from people.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I have a lot of questions.

[SPEAKER_00]: One, you already alluded to permission.

[SPEAKER_00]: I remember in the session, you made it clear to ask for my permission first.

[SPEAKER_00]: If somebody said no there, is there like a blockage where you don't get the signal?

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I don't know because I haven't tried that.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think, but I think the answer would be no.

[SPEAKER_01]: Just like you and I are both participating in this conversation, right, we're doing this willingly.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it's not like I could go up to somebody in let's say a public place, sit next to them or sit behind them on a bench and find this space.

[SPEAKER_01]: Now, I say I don't think I could do that.

[SPEAKER_01]: I've never tried it because it would be very creepy.

[SPEAKER_01]: I have not tried that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe it's possible, but it feels really important to get the permission because the things I see are, again, they're not the deep-torque secrets and they're not the mind, but it's the stuff that you would share with the trusted person or mentor or love one or a therapist or whoever somebody that you can find it in.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, for listeners, that session on my end looked like us on a call like this.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then you, uh, I guess took a moment to, uh, move rooms to a different space.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think you said it was a darker room where, um, you, I don't know, received something from my, I don't know, aura or what, like, what was it?

[SPEAKER_00]: What are you doing?

[SPEAKER_00]: What are you tapping into?

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, let me take a step back.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'll answer that question, but we'll take a step back for us.

[SPEAKER_01]: So about 13 years ago, I came out of a mental health crisis and strong addiction issues with this ability to see these holographic images as I told you, I call it upside vision.

[SPEAKER_01]: Um, when after that happened I was like okay, and I'd let me be really clear.

[SPEAKER_01]: I wrote a book about this I call it's called Jesus goes to Hollywood and memoir madness and I completely disconnected from reality I lost my business.

[SPEAKER_01]: I lost my family temporarily.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was heavily into drugs, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: I thought my brain was rewired from that.

[SPEAKER_01]: While I came out of that, I realized I had this ability.

[SPEAKER_01]: As I had this ability, I thought to myself, and I told my wife, I'm like, listen, any kind of gift like this comes with a curse, so I'm sure I'm gonna have a tumor or a leased or something, and I'm gonna be gone.

[SPEAKER_01]: I've seen enough movies.

[SPEAKER_01]: I had two separate MRIs, and there's no damage to the brain.

[SPEAKER_01]: Nothing's wrong, no stroke, no lesion, no brain tumor, no damage from drug use.

[SPEAKER_01]: So the clinician said, listen, something must have been rewired for you to receive this.

[SPEAKER_01]: and you're picking out and you're seeing something other people can't see.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that's sat with me for a while, but since since then, I've talked to people about this, I've talked about it on podcasts, and that is not the number one thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: And other people can do this by the way, less, so we'll get to that too.

[SPEAKER_01]: Trauma is seems to be the thing that opens this up.

[SPEAKER_01]: I would have said that it's going to be [SPEAKER_01]: Addiction or some kind of rewiring from some kind of a reuse of drugs, but it's not There's many people have never done drugs.

[SPEAKER_01]: They can they have this ability to one degree or another So that's something that's really interesting Through again listen, I can talk about the science quantum entanglement I'll use the buzzwords that everybody knows your thousands of miles away from me [SPEAKER_01]: It works.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know how it works if I've done it where I can do it with people in the room I can do it with people on the other side of the world and after we connect there's some connection again That's beyond my beyond yet mine My any science that we can just you know show and measure That we connect and I get I see things there you give me permission and I see what's there now [SPEAKER_00]: Glenn.

[SPEAKER_00]: What do you think is going on within your mind in doing so?

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, do you think I know nothing shows up on MRI?

[SPEAKER_00]: Do you think you're accessing a different part of the brain that's just there that's kind of dormant in most cases or do you think it's like an antenna that just turns on like people speak of like maybe the pineal gland how it has like a [SPEAKER_00]: ability to kind of open up and receive information that's flowing through that we're just not in the everyday basis like tuned into that channel, if you will.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's exactly what I think it is.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think there's the brain is receiver, obviously.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think mine opened up more or tuned in better, maybe both of those.

[SPEAKER_01]: Right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Something happened and I continued in and let's be clear.

[SPEAKER_01]: I just have to shift my attention, focus my eyes and I see it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I can see a holographic image is there now.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to do it now, but it will be there.

[SPEAKER_01]: Now, where is that one coming from?

[SPEAKER_01]: Right?

[SPEAKER_01]: With it, we know I know once I see it and engage with it, let's see it's a guy running a bike.

[SPEAKER_01]: First of all, I have no idea where that one's coming from.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's just there.

[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe like listening to a car draw by or whatever.

[SPEAKER_01]: However, once I engage with it, [SPEAKER_01]: So now there's an interaction with the pinnile gland, the brain, whatever receiver it is, and there's a conversation, and I can interact.

[SPEAKER_01]: Again, when I do readings, I don't interact.

[SPEAKER_01]: I just see what's there, because I don't want to say blue, but I don't want to, you know, influence it, because it's your side.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's a different, that's a different thing that we're doing.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I absolutely believe it's a receiver.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm receiving these things.

[SPEAKER_01]: My brain fine-tuned into it.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's stayed open and, um, [SPEAKER_01]: Even though we don't can't measure within MRI, I did go to the Institute of Noetic Sciences in August of 2023, and there's a scientific paper coming out near the end of this year.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's a case study on me measuring my brain waves in this state.

[SPEAKER_01]: Right?

[SPEAKER_01]: During upside-vision seeing it as opposed to memory recall and mind's eye.

[SPEAKER_01]: Because everyone want to talk about this.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, that's just a vivid imagination.

[SPEAKER_01]: It is indeed not the same thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: Those things are generated internally and I used to own an advertising agency so I know what that's like.

[SPEAKER_01]: I had a vivid mind's eye and I still do.

[SPEAKER_01]: This is outside of me and I can see it.

[SPEAKER_01]: And they know that, um, [SPEAKER_01]: because the EEG waves is the test.

[SPEAKER_01]: We'll get into that in a minute.

[SPEAKER_01]: But before that, before at any science, I knew my pupils dilated when I saw something exciting.

[SPEAKER_01]: You can, there's something called smooth pursuit.

[SPEAKER_01]: I movement, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: You can't fake it.

[SPEAKER_01]: You have to, when your eye is smooth, pursuing something, following it, it's smooth.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's why they call it smooth pursuit.

[SPEAKER_01]: So in other words, [SPEAKER_01]: If I'm looking at a blank wall or you and I are sitting next to each other and it looks like a blank wall to you and I'm seeing a cheetah when I cross it, my eyes will follow this cheetah.

[SPEAKER_01]: So that's another way.

[SPEAKER_01]: And in another way is when I'm driving, I cannot do this when I'm driving because my motor activity is focused on the road, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: I can certainly use my vivid mind's eye and memory recall while I'm driving, but I can't do this because I have to look at the image that is there.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it never turns on on its own.

[SPEAKER_01]: You have to have an intention to So maybe a better way to say it is it's always on, but I have to turn my attention to it, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: It's always on, but I have to turn my attention to it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Are you, when you, you mentioned the word holograph, holographic, I think, a moment ago.

[SPEAKER_00]: Are you saying it looks like a 3D image in front of you, like a few feet in front of you or [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, great.

[SPEAKER_01]: Great question.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I'll give two references here because most people have seen one or the other.

[SPEAKER_01]: A couple years ago, actually, probably five now.

[SPEAKER_01]: There was a movie or a mini series on Netflix called the Queen's Gambit.

[SPEAKER_01]: I remember that.

[SPEAKER_01]: That was good.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it was great, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: The protagonist laid in bed.

[SPEAKER_01]: And when I saw this, I was incredible.

[SPEAKER_01]: Because the protagonist says she's laid in bed and look at the ceiling.

[SPEAKER_01]: She was a chess master.

[SPEAKER_01]: She could see these chess pieces on the ceiling and she could move them.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's exactly what I can do with the upside vision.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, and those were three-dimensional to her.

[SPEAKER_01]: If you haven't seen that, there's the old Iron Man movies where Tony Stark is in his office, and he's surrounded by a holographic universe, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: He can swipe left and swipe right.

[SPEAKER_01]: I can't do the swiping left, and I can't pull like a file.

[SPEAKER_01]: But they are that vivid, that detail, that, they can be that vivid, that detail.

[SPEAKER_01]: Here's the thing, which was I had to learn this in the very beginning.

[SPEAKER_01]: All because they're that vivid, that detail, it doesn't mean they're true, less.

[SPEAKER_01]: Right?

[SPEAKER_01]: It's like waking up for a dream, thinking everything you happen into dream is true.

[SPEAKER_01]: No, it's vivid, you remember it.

[SPEAKER_01]: These are like that.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's why I use the dream.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's a perfect reference, everybody understands.

[SPEAKER_01]: So yes, the answer is yes.

[SPEAKER_01]: They are like those holograms.

[SPEAKER_00]: So let's when you say like it's a dream because that's our different theories around really like where dreams are coming from and some people think that some of these endogenous I guess like psychoactive chemical compounds like hallucinogens like DMT that we produce are what's driving the dream state is is that do you get a feeling that there's like a chemical component to it like that where [SPEAKER_00]: You are like, I know I've done for instance breath work sessions where it seemed like it would trigger a temporary, like hallucination where I could see Like an image if I close my eyes, it was kind of right in front of me and I thought that maybe like I poked that section like I had enough [SPEAKER_00]: It gets like, they call maybe PZO Electric, something where there's a mechanical force that introduces into an electrical thing and changes your chemical makeup somehow.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, do you think that that's what's going on that you're like, we have these chemicals that float around but they're at a certain level and then if you weather maybe through attention or breath work or chemical from nature [SPEAKER_00]: you like ignite that and then when it's flowing when your levels of that are flowing or maybe when they're flowing in a different area of the brain like you create dreams and that's where like dreams come from where I've heard people say that that's stimulated during the or death experiences like it happens right before death for whatever reason people have different opinions of that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Could that be what's going on where you're just like on your own drugs?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's great.

[SPEAKER_01]: Great way to say it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and yes, to everything you said, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Let's go through, let's go through each one, perhaps.

[SPEAKER_01]: So the molecule, the molecule DMT, a lot of people do DMT and they see these machine elves that show up, while they're on that molecule.

[SPEAKER_01]: Now we know, I'm gonna tell you now, because I read this, the brain releases really sedium-teen very, very small amounts.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if it's all the time.

[SPEAKER_01]: but some of the time.

[SPEAKER_01]: So maybe I turn mine on or open it up just enough where I can see these things.

[SPEAKER_01]: The question with the DMT is, and this is the question that people at study those molecules say, are they in the mind or are they outside of the mind?

[SPEAKER_01]: I think we can absolutely do a test where I could be the control, have five guys on DMT.

[SPEAKER_01]: Let's see if this, we all see the same machine else or whatever shows up.

[SPEAKER_01]: Not only if we see it, right, is that machine-off because they send messages to all the people that are tripping, is it the same message everybody will get?

[SPEAKER_01]: We can test these kind of things.

[SPEAKER_01]: Another test you can have about how the brain releases chemicals or gets into a certain state is that there are people, there's something called Charles Benace syndrome.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's where people have, you're going blind.

[SPEAKER_01]: I can't think of the word.

[SPEAKER_01]: Degeneration, macular degeneration, that's it.

[SPEAKER_01]: When that happens, older people sometimes they start hallucinating and seeing things.

[SPEAKER_01]: And a lot of people, and this discover, like I guess 150 years ago, they thought they were going crazy, because they were seeing these things in their field of vision.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, you know, that's why it's named after the Dr.

Charles Beney that discovered it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, they're not, there's nothing mentally, there's no mental illness going on.

[SPEAKER_01]: But my theory, and they just start seeing hallucinations, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Now they learn they're not there, they learn to deal with them.

[SPEAKER_01]: Some people take drugs to get rid of them.

[SPEAKER_01]: others are like, wait a minute, so I'm not going crazy, but this is kind of cool.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't mind when these things and people show up, so they live with it, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm thinking to myself, again, I was doing all this studying, that's kind of like, maybe something going on with me.

[SPEAKER_01]: They're going blind, but the brain is screaming, saying, hey, listen, the normal eyes are going blind, but this part of the brain can still see this bio-field, this plasma field, whatever we want to call it, that's out there.

[SPEAKER_01]: And we can still communicate that way.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I talked about the answer questions a little way.

[SPEAKER_01]: The answer is there's so many things that we can test around this and who knows where it's going to land.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I think receiver, some kind of chemical, opened up with me, but it can open up through trauma.

[SPEAKER_01]: For me, both.

[SPEAKER_01]: and then really important turning the attention to it.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's what you have when you have meditation of focused attention is huge.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's a wonderful, wonderful, huge scale.

[SPEAKER_01]: And these things open up and chemicals can be released and so many things change under meditation to your point.

[SPEAKER_01]: So all those things should be studied and looked at more.

[SPEAKER_01]: But for whatever reason, here's what I say.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's like singing, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Everybody can sing, but everybody cannot be a Dell or Frank Sinatra, okay?

[SPEAKER_01]: So, somebody, you know, if they know they can do this, I feel like this is you know you can do it, but everybody can't be even if they want it to be.

[SPEAKER_00]: You could get better if you practice at it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I definitely.

[SPEAKER_01]: I've gotten stronger at it when it was good in the beginning, but I'm surprised how I want to say in focus, because there's always in focus, maybe how I hold it longer, because nothing is static.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's always moving, like clouds.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's always always moving.

[SPEAKER_01]: And they're usually clear with a color tint.

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, yeah, I mentioned like trauma and drugs like do you think that plays a certain role and why and what kind of drugs were you on that I was my drug choice was Coke right and and I think I cocaine not okay.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I think that the stimulant I learned in college that I could I study it on Coke and I would do better.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it was kind of a bad.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, for a while, it was great.

[SPEAKER_01]: But so the brain is stimulated.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, cocaine is great until it's not, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, until it's not.

[SPEAKER_00]: I had a cocaine phase myself.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, right.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's great until it's not.

[SPEAKER_01]: But so for me, it was a stimulant.

[SPEAKER_01]: But trauma is the number one thing everyone talks about.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if something happens to the brain when people go through really severe physical, psychological, mental, sexual trauma and the brain changes.

[SPEAKER_01]: And [SPEAKER_01]: You know, disassociation.

[SPEAKER_01]: I can't begin to think about the science of rounded other than the fact that there is trauma induced and people have it from that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Now, as far as the ability to see an interact with it, most people, right, the ones that come forward to me.

[SPEAKER_01]: Every time I talk about this, somebody, I get emails from people saying they have it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I wrote a PDF called the eight stages of upside vision.

[SPEAKER_01]: These are the stages that I went through.

[SPEAKER_01]: And the also their levels, you know, that I'm at, some of the different levels, one of the levels is seeing the holograms, but not being able to change some of the thought, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: So you could see this hologram show up, but you can't change a race car into a bicycle.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of people that can see him, but can't change him.

[SPEAKER_00]: So you think that's some sort of like progression through.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, like you get one and then...

So, I've talked to some people and I don't teach this by the way.

[SPEAKER_01]: I want to be really clear about that.

[SPEAKER_01]: I always ask about my teacher.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't feel I'm ready to teach it because I'm not completely...

[SPEAKER_01]: a master of it yet?

[SPEAKER_01]: I do these readings, but that's not the same thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I've told everyone, if you can see it at some point, I don't know why you can't change it with the thought.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, yes, if you're that far along, I think if you meditate and focus and practice, you can change it with the thought.

[SPEAKER_01]: Here's the thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: This takes a lot a lot of work.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, when I came out of my crisis, I had nothing.

[SPEAKER_01]: I've lost everything.

[SPEAKER_01]: My wife took me back and the family's back together and all that stuff.

[SPEAKER_01]: My business, no.

[SPEAKER_01]: Finance has gone, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: This is going back at dozen years, 13 years now.

[SPEAKER_01]: For one year, I literally sat on the couch and I thought about mathematics and I thought, and I did this all day long.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, I, um, [SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to say I don't know if it's a model.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if I want to say it's a muscle, but it's a muscle.

[SPEAKER_01]: It feels like a muscle and meditation muscle may be a better way to put it, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: That's maybe, maybe discipline is a better way to put it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Once I tuned in, yeah, so I think the answer is yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think it was like the very first one, like how, how did you discover like, oh, um, because I would think if you, the first time you do it, you see something, you probably would assume there's a serious problem going on.

[SPEAKER_01]: Great question, so this is, first time I did it, I was in fact on drugs, but it was the last time I also used drugs, and I also knew when I saw these the first time, even it's wild, I knew at that moment I'm like, I'm on drugs right now, but I know I can do this without it, I just knew it, right, all right, I'm going to say the first four ones because they're symbolic, and I didn't realize as symbolism till years later.

[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, and I'll get into that.

[SPEAKER_01]: The first one was the back of a dinosaur, and he's on morphed into one another.

[SPEAKER_01]: This all happened in a couple of minute period.

[SPEAKER_01]: The back of a dinosaur, blood moving through the body, blood cells, like a close-up of that, a slot machine with a bunch of money coming out of it, and then the grim reaper.

[SPEAKER_01]: Right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Those were the first ones.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, wow.

[SPEAKER_01]: Now, if we sit, if I take a step back and over time, I'm like, hold on a minute, this, if we want to look at this from symbolic, the dinosaurs could represent the past, distant past, life is blood moving through the body, could be life, survival, we need money for survival, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: And then death, inevitable death.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it took me the longest time to actually sit and think about that.

[SPEAKER_01]: But, um, [SPEAKER_01]: I find that interesting now with some distance on it that those are the four things that I saw, those are the first four symbolic things that I saw, and that's a kind of thing we get into when I do the readings with people, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: It's like reading a dream.

[SPEAKER_01]: Some dreams you have, they're just you wake up, nobody cares.

[SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes you wake up from a dream you're like, you can't believe you're not going to believe this and you feel so good.

[SPEAKER_01]: And the readings are kind of like that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Some of them are like, well, I don't get it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I doesn't make any sense to me.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it takes a while to unpack it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Some of them are like, I sit there in say dreams, but I've literally seen something that a woman did the day before.

[SPEAKER_01]: like unpacking.

[SPEAKER_01]: I saw I'm like, well, I'm watching you unpacking Lamp and at the end of the first reading, she's like, how did you know that?

[SPEAKER_01]: I said, I don't know what I'm looking at in your bio field.

[SPEAKER_01]: She's like, I literally came back from the story yesterday and I pulled this Lamp out of a, you know, I bought a Lamp and I put it up.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, when you do these readings for people, um, [SPEAKER_00]: where they're giving you permission.

[SPEAKER_00]: So on some level, they're opening up, at least as far as intention for you to receive whatever signal.

[SPEAKER_00]: Do you feel like, in most cases, what you're seeing is a symbolic connection?

[SPEAKER_01]: So I think, [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's another great question.

[SPEAKER_00]: And is there any chance that like some of it is just nonsense and it means nothing and it just happens This is be what you So they were like, could you be pulling something else from someone else in their house?

[SPEAKER_01]: No, that's the top.

[SPEAKER_01]: Both of those questions are great and the answer is yes I can definitely be pulling somebody else because I was doing the woman's reading and her husband is off screen next to her And I said something and I'm like, well, that's not me.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's my husband.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, well, he's not there And she's like he's sitting right here, and I didn't know that [SPEAKER_01]: Right now as far as nonsense, you know, I I somebody said that one of the times and I I kind of I was like well that doesn't seem fair But you know what if you have a dream and you wake up from it and you don't it's a ridiculous dream The answer is yes, it can be what we could call nonsense.

[SPEAKER_01]: However [SPEAKER_01]: If we're looking at with an intention and you're coming with an intention to do this reading, the nonsense ones, they seem to diminish and the meaningful ones come out near the end.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I wouldn't even call the first one nonsense.

[SPEAKER_01]: I would just say we don't know this significant sum of them.

[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_01]: And...

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, wait, yes, not the part of the question, but I think I answered it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: So there I don't think they're nonsense, but some of them are less meaningful.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, this symbolism, this symbolism, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: So I saw a woman pull a lamp out of something she literally did.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I, I don't know, there's some snapshots of that and even with past lives, I saw this woman in Spain.

[SPEAKER_01]: She was just Spain, 14, 9.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, this is Spain.

[SPEAKER_01]: Looks like it's.

[SPEAKER_01]: five hundred years ago.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I saw all these symbolic things of Catholics and Spain and stuff like that.

[SPEAKER_01]: That was definitely her background.

[SPEAKER_01]: She thought she had past lives.

[SPEAKER_01]: Who knows?

[SPEAKER_01]: Who knows?

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, honestly, who knows?

[SPEAKER_01]: It was great.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was a great read.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, these are fun for me.

[SPEAKER_01]: When I see these things coming from people, it's awesome.

[SPEAKER_00]: So when we did our reading or when you did the reading with me the first thing that came up I thought at first was like really strange and I've given it some thought.

[SPEAKER_00]: But it was I recall it was.

[SPEAKER_00]: a horse costume that had two people in it, like one in the front and I took it as like me and my wife were in a costume and it went really weird from there like it opened up and there was a boat floating between us like it lost me but I it's funny because the costume thing actually resonated with me a little bit symbolically like [SPEAKER_00]: You know, my wife has online YouTube channel, multiple channels, I have the podcast, and in some way, there's been part of me that since, you know, we've been doing all this, I think about how you're not the person on camera that you are with that when you're not on camera.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, it's impossible not to be wearing a costume.

[SPEAKER_00]: And part of that is like bothered me over the years.

[SPEAKER_00]: And part of me feels like, well, maybe that's part of the goal to make the delta there between the public you and the private you or whatever.

[SPEAKER_00]: diminish and learn how to do that through some kind of personal growth where you can true.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's hard to say you could truly be yourself when you're in a camera because you like who's to say you're more yourself when you're not on camera and who your real self is.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, but it is something like I have thought of the fakeness component of being like everything related to social media or online [SPEAKER_00]: personality, you know, that it's impossible to be Same, and it's been like a bother of mine because if there's always been like a little bit of fakeness like I try to be myself When I'm doing these podcasts for instance, but like I withhold a lot of things Because of real lot of reason a lot of it is like like for instance, maybe [SPEAKER_00]: like I'm super opinionated about a lot of things that I never give my opinion on here because it's not a good platform for like for instance if you have a political opinion like online politics is horrible like this it's the worst way to try to discuss anything that's really important like all the if you think of all the [SPEAKER_00]: big political device of things.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're all like really important things that that deserve like long nuanced conversation.

[SPEAKER_00]: But the comment section of online stuff is not a place where you can do that.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's just like a cesspool.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't even want to, but there's part of me that's like, man, you can't even feel comfortable being yourself and saying how you really feel.

[SPEAKER_00]: And to [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's really interesting.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it makes complete sense to me.

[SPEAKER_01]: And you know what, getting into the politics online, I can't even imagine that you can't even, those people don't think they can be themselves, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Because imagine you go in, you're yourself, but you're gonna alienate somebody unless you stay in this certain tribe.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think that we all, I think it would be impossible.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then you're gonna be attacked by half the people, and then exactly.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then you're reacting to the attack, so now you're defensive like lesser self, [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, you know what's cool about that, too, that you remind me.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I remember in the reading, you guys sat on the end of a curb and you both had your costumes to the side I believe.

[SPEAKER_01]: And you were like kind of thinking about what to do, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: You took your costume off if I'm remembering.

[SPEAKER_01]: If I'm remembering.

[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, maybe this is, and this is what this does.

[SPEAKER_01]: This jogs a transition place or something to people think for people to think about in a way they may not have before through new lens.

[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, that's interesting, that's really interesting.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and you know what you do now with meditation, this has its own tribe too.

[SPEAKER_01]: Let's not kid ourselves, you know?

[SPEAKER_01]: There's no doubt that people do things a certain way in this space, which is great.

[SPEAKER_01]: And the goal is to be zen and to be calm and to connect.

[SPEAKER_01]: But people do it in different ways and people can be hardcore, but they're opinion on how to do it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, I think we look at meditation as a tool in the toolkit, and we just offer a, hey, like we want to.

[SPEAKER_00]: On some level, we strive to like help people inspire and power people to just play a larger role in their sense of well-being, whatever that means for them.

[SPEAKER_00]: And in today's world, we look at stillness or, you know, looking inward as a powerful tool to try to manage the human experience.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we just offered up there.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're not very dogmatic about it.

[SPEAKER_00]: We don't tell people there's a way to do it or a better way or you should this or should that.

[SPEAKER_00]: We just like there's a lot of tools for health and wellness in general and the important thing is to find the ones that like work for you.

[SPEAKER_01]: listen that that's very well said and that's the beautiful thing about your podcast because being still and focusing your attention is the currency of the future right and the currency of growth change and everything like that if you can if you have the ability to meditate or do something for an hour that's I mean this is before even um [SPEAKER_01]: digital and stuff, but if you can do it now, it seems like it's even getting harder and harder.

[SPEAKER_01]: But if I am in any indication, the payoff is huge, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: The payoff is huge.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I know that's why people listen to your podcasts, they're like, okay, I know this makes sense.

[SPEAKER_01]: Because after an hour of meditation, you literally feel different.

[SPEAKER_01]: You can't have a meditation session, well I guess you could, I've never happened to me.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, before it's to it, you're going to change after the hour, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yoga, you're going to feel better after that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Whether you want or not, I know that sounds weird, but it's been my experience anyway.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and also like there's two sides of that because when you are still it might prep you to be more productive or something or create something but also you're not getting anything done so like when you look at people that are super productive they might not be like happy or successful in other ways, but [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they're not ones to do that because they work $16 a day like you think of, I don't know, the Elon Musk of the world where you're like, the people that are running large organizations that are creating lots of stuff that people wind up using and it contributes to, I don't know, the GDP or society or productivity.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, they don't have time.

[SPEAKER_00]: They don't make time to do that.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like there's benefits of being ADD and non-stop and never being still.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, you know, everybody's, there's eight billion people and we all go about it differently.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so this is a great point.

[SPEAKER_01]: So when I started doing this, I had no idea who was going to come forward and spend the money to do this.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I thought it was going to be woo woo woo.

[SPEAKER_01]: woo, that was a word.

[SPEAKER_01]: I had no idea metaphysics.

[SPEAKER_01]: The number one, the number one thing is business owners.

[SPEAKER_01]: Email business owners very successful.

[SPEAKER_01]: Unbelievable.

[SPEAKER_01]: And in the at number one right on the handout number two, musicians and people in the creative space.

[SPEAKER_01]: But women who are successful who are intuitive, there's something that they understand that they can get out of this.

[SPEAKER_01]: And those people are also to your point.

[SPEAKER_01]: They're successful, but they have to have the balance going on, or they're looking for the balance.

[SPEAKER_01]: Now, they're not Elon Musk, obviously.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's only so many of those.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I promised you this.

[SPEAKER_01]: He could certainly probably use an hour of yoga, and he would feel better after it.

[SPEAKER_01]: And hour of any kind of granted meditation.

[SPEAKER_01]: But it's wild, there's this knowing audience, there's this knowing people out there that they know there's something more as opposed to just being productive because that's not healthy.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's not healthy at all, you know, and that's why people do drugs turn everything.

[SPEAKER_01]: Every more addiction, more and more, that's why you know, yoga and meditation and what I kind of help people, you know, look at other things that are available.

[SPEAKER_00]: I want to understand a little bit more of how you experience this, so if you wake up, you're saying this is on all the time, like you always have images in the room.

[SPEAKER_00]: And if you rest your attention on them, you could start like, uh, [SPEAKER_00]: Engaging engaging and then it'll change and you could kind of lead it to change to a certain thing if you want But it's always like physically there in your space a three-dimensional hologram-ish looking thing Yeah, it's like a radio station that's not because it is a signal.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, there's I mean whatever kind of signal this plasma field Yeah, I know nobody knows yet [SPEAKER_01]: But it is a signal that I just need to turn my attention to it is that simple and I don't get a lot of things I don't care about right because I don't it doesn't get in the way though I want to be very clear on that.

[SPEAKER_01]: It does not interfere with my life or anything I have to focus my eyes and see what it is.

[SPEAKER_00]: You think it's actual like matter that is that is measurable If you had the right equipment that it's actually taking up that space or do you think it's just a projection of something from within you [SPEAKER_00]: That you're a producer there.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I wrote a plot post about four years ago called The Dark Matter.

[SPEAKER_01]: I thought it was Dark Matter, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: This thing we can't measure with the electromagnetic spectrum.

[SPEAKER_01]: Since then, I'm starting to believe maybe it's some kind of plasma field, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: that I some kind of met pleasant field.

[SPEAKER_01]: So the answer to your question is maybe we can't do it now, but I without a doubt think we'll be able to do it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Somebody will figure this out because a bunch of us will come together will see the same thing objectively and we'll start, you know, in somebody who's maybe a physicist or whatever, we'll say, hey wait a minute, let's try to measure with this and they'll figure it out.

[SPEAKER_01]: I truly believe that's gonna happen.

[SPEAKER_01]: So to answer your question, is it matter?

[SPEAKER_01]: I call it in the eight stages of upside division there's two different spaces I go to right one is the hidden bias fear that is here with us right so that means there's something here that just I you and I can't see because we're humans and there's another place called the I call the organic metaverse which is out there that's [SPEAKER_01]: A kosher record, symbolic knowledge, role this math stuff is, astral projections.

[SPEAKER_01]: The stuff that's here around us, I think, it's not another dimension in other words, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: It's literally here, we just can't see these other type of beings or whatever else is there.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's in our dimension, but we just, it doesn't show up in the visible spectrum.

[SPEAKER_01]: Alright, there's a word I learned when I was researching this and the word is spelled U.M.W.E.L.T.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's pronounced unveled.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's the way a biological organism moves through the environment, simple as terms.

[SPEAKER_01]: So you and I inhabit planet Earth with worms, birds, fish, bats, tigers.

[SPEAKER_01]: all of us occupy the same space, but the way a worm moves through the world is completely different than a human does, and they don't have the eyes or anything to see what we see.

[SPEAKER_01]: My umvalued, the way I see the world literally changed 13 years ago, the way I move through the world now is different than I move through the world then, because something was added, something opened up can I can see if more that's here.

[SPEAKER_01]: That makes sense.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's very interesting because there's something that comes to mind when I hear that, especially when you say you think it's born out of trauma.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I agree.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like we, [SPEAKER_00]: the human experience.

[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like the sensory organs that we have, you know, smell, sight, hearing, like the ones aware of.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think there's more that we're not really aware of.

[SPEAKER_00]: But the, um, I feel like those have developed out of the needs, five, like I used to have a pet python when I was a teenager.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I remember learning that [SPEAKER_00]: You know, we didn't see the visible light spectrum like we do saw, I think, infrared.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, like, the mouse that he was chasing looked like a red blob, didn't look like what we see it.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, we developed the organs in the way that we need to turn survive.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, like, maybe the snake didn't need to have vision in the visual light spectrum of the EMF spectrum.

[SPEAKER_00]: because maybe it allows us to interact with our environment in a way that helps us more where is the snake with no arms and legs and like maybe that's all it really needed and energy went elsewhere.

[SPEAKER_00]: But when I think of it being born that function, being born and the structure that comes with that function, being born out of the like emerging out of the need for survival, [SPEAKER_00]: I think of this characteristic that you have and other people seem to have also.

[SPEAKER_00]: When you say that a common thread that is derived, when not derived, but emerges out of a traumatic experience, like, is this a, [SPEAKER_00]: a function that emerges out of the need to survive like is this a way that humans are coping with trauma in some way and if it helps you navigate the human experience while you're on this side of the dirt.

[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I think absolutely.

[SPEAKER_01]: And individually, it's used in ways maybe people don't know, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, this is like a, maybe a byproduct of trauma that they know how to survive in that environment.

[SPEAKER_01]: Collectively, why is it happening, I would say, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: So I've thought about this a lot too.

[SPEAKER_01]: So obviously, and it's about trauma, I mean, evolution changes because of the environment.

[SPEAKER_01]: And if we really, really, really think about the planet Earth [SPEAKER_01]: Right?

[SPEAKER_01]: For ever chemicals, the environment, climate change, the poll shifts, so many things are happening on planet earth outside of our autonomy and inside of us that I think this is an emergent ability that humans are having, why for survival?

[SPEAKER_01]: How communicate in a new way that we haven't before?

[SPEAKER_01]: Simply put is that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Now, that's kind of scary because that means we need it for a group thing, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: It's individually, but I think we need it for a group thing and listen, the way the world's going, actually it makes sense, the way, you know, we see how the world's going.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's just another way for humans to communicate and grow, and see the world, because there will let me say one other thing that kind of piggybacks on that, too, for my real experience.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, everyone is all hot on AI.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, the coolest thing ever, it's so fast and smart, but it's all it is, is human knowledge being regurgitated back to us with these giant fast LLMs.

[SPEAKER_01]: Look, they seem smart, they say the right things.

[SPEAKER_01]: Don't get me wrong, they're intelligent, but think about the rest of the universe, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: That's just, our brain's going to the computer, whatever we're accessing and all of us I think can access are receiving something.

[SPEAKER_01]: that is beyond yet its evolutionary intelligence over and one side which is just beginning to tap and AI over here.

[SPEAKER_01]: AI seems smart, evolutionary intelligence obviously is smarter than we could ever know and humans are just beginning to tap it and getting the knowledge around it.

[SPEAKER_01]: And whatever that future holds because there's so much more than just our brains.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean think about it, animal intelligence, plan intelligence, planet intelligence, it's extraordinary.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, um, yeah, I'm always bad for I got a bunch of plants behind me.

[SPEAKER_00]: The intelligence that they exhibit is crazy to me like they go places where you're like how did it know to go there to grab that that next vine or whatever.

[SPEAKER_01]: What do you mean serious, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean, I think plants have like crazy wisdom that we don't understand it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I get emails all the time emails and I tell people listen I'm just collecting I just I there's no next so that there's no next text What's gonna happen?

[SPEAKER_01]: So so yes answers yes now Let's talk about what they did you want to talk about what they did on Ion so people understand what they part of the brain They measure can I tell you kind of what we did?

[SPEAKER_01]: We did 200 randomized tests over a few days back in a 2023 [SPEAKER_01]: They would hook my brain up to an EG machine and then they would pull an image up on a computer let's say of the Eiffel Tower, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Then I would think of the Eiffel Tower with my mind's eye or memory recall.

[SPEAKER_01]: I would see it in my mind's eye.

[SPEAKER_01]: Then I would see the Eiffel Tower in front of me in holographic form.

[SPEAKER_01]: So we did 200 randomized tests across every single brain state, alpha, beta, gamma, theta, all of them.

[SPEAKER_01]: There was differences.

[SPEAKER_01]: The biggest difference in this blue my mind, well the theta state there were big differences, but it was less surprising because that's where mediums typically see, you know what I mean and clairvoyant people see things, activity in the theta state.

[SPEAKER_01]: The alpha state is, which is, if I understand correctly, the resting brain state, the default mode network state, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: While I'm using up site, my alpha state is blowing up.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's working extra hard.

[SPEAKER_01]: Not only that, there's a left-free, parental cortex, I'm not saying this, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Some part that's being suppressed over here.

[SPEAKER_01]: for these things to get in and they're speculating why that's happening for these images to get in or these these are waves to get in I call them waves because they feel like they're waves I mean they I don't know they're waves they're waves like just like a wave or a [SPEAKER_01]: whether something is a waiver of photon.

[SPEAKER_01]: These are kind of the same kind of things.

[SPEAKER_01]: So that's what the testing is done.

[SPEAKER_01]: So yes, people are coming forward.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's no next text coming out because this hasn't even been published yet.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I know there will be a lot of attention around this from the media.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, I anticipate when it does.

[SPEAKER_01]: And they'll want to replicate it.

[SPEAKER_01]: They'll want to say let's do this again because there's going to be skeptics which is understandable.

[SPEAKER_01]: The beautiful thing is I can do this on demand.

[SPEAKER_01]: I have to wait for any time or anything like that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, are you feeling with Dean Raiden?

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, he, he, he, Dean Raiden is a, he studies kind of the sci-phenomenal and extra century brain perceptions at the Institute of Noetic Sciences in Northern California.

[SPEAKER_01]: Those team of scientists did it.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's a whole bunch of really smart people up there.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's founded by Edgar, [SPEAKER_01]: Edgar Mitchell, one of the first astronauts that came back from space, he founded this institute and they studied all kinds of stuff like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: How did you get connected with him today?

[SPEAKER_00]: I started with email.

[SPEAKER_01]: Listen, I sent over 100 emails to traditional academic institute saying, listen, I know how I moved through the world before, I know what's going on now, there's no mental illness, I was definitely unwell but without the drugs, believe it or not, there's no mental illness.

[SPEAKER_01]: I want, I want to come in and you guys need to look at this because if you could do what I could do, you would be amazed.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's what I told them.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I was either politely declined or ignored finally, you know, back in 2022, Dean Reigns said, huh, let me talk to the team of scientists.

[SPEAKER_01]: I then talked to the team of scientists and we agreed, okay, let's do this.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's it.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's how we did it and they figured out what they were going to do.

[SPEAKER_00]: So you mentioned that there is a part of the brain on the left side that gets suppressed, allowing for more activity on the right side.

[SPEAKER_01]: or more things to come in.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, not be saying that, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: You can, there's a blog on the Institute of Noetic Sciences that the scientists wrote.

[SPEAKER_01]: If you put an upside vision and blog, no edicts, the, they'll come up.

[SPEAKER_01]: They say it better.

[SPEAKER_01]: They use the, you know, the scientific language.

[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, something like that is happening.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because it makes me think I've heard over the years that, um, [SPEAKER_00]: You know, the left side of the brain is like the logic where we get logic where we try to make sense of things and you know, the right side is where you can get more, you know, artistic or abstract expressions like I wonder if there's something to that like.

[SPEAKER_01]: part of thing that allows it to happen is getting the decide that's trying to figure everything out out of the way the logic out of the way well yeah i'd i'd i'd i don't know i don't know or or the or the or the side that's dealing with our traditional senses right or the side that's dealing with the traditional senses because i feel but by the way now my wife can make and everyone can make a joke about this this definitely made me smarter right [SPEAKER_01]: So the question is how smart was I before, how smart am I now, so we have fun with that.

[SPEAKER_01]: So objectively, I became interested in math, I became even you could say for a long time obsessed with math in the beginning, because I can see these visual spatial images that exist in this space, just the same way a con shell exists in our 3D space, [SPEAKER_01]: I see these things that do not exist in our 3D space at all, and I became fascinated with them and I started studying and stuff like that, and then I got down the rabbit hole of math.

[SPEAKER_00]: You mean, in regards to the geometry of this structure?

[SPEAKER_01]: The comic sheet, snake, or geometry, all that stuff in this place is it's definitely sacred geometry, but it's more than that, too.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's a structure to this space.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's a consistent structure to the space the same way there are structured things like trees how they look in our 3D space and I've been having fun with that for the last, you know, dozen years.

[SPEAKER_00]: So what do you think the progression of this emerging technology human technology is do you think it's just leading people to be able to communicate easier without using words or understand each other better and make for more peaceful.

[SPEAKER_00]: place the live because with understanding of others, we're more compassionate and we don't other them as much, we don't fight wars or like what do you think like there's some purpose behind it that is driving us in that direction?

[SPEAKER_01]: I do, I do and I think all those things you said are you familiar with the telepathy tapes?

[SPEAKER_00]: I've heard them talked about a little bit, yeah, on a podcast, I think I heard something.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's about nonverbal speakers and how they communicate nonverbaly.

[SPEAKER_01]: One of the places they go, they call the Hill.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay?

[SPEAKER_01]: I have a hypothesis that the place they call the Hill is the same place that I'm seeing.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, I think there is this place that we can access, that is, you know, just outside normally human perceptions, and [SPEAKER_01]: When you are in that space and when you're communicating with other people there or seeing other people there [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, your guard is down, you are better, you are kinder, you're more open, you realize there's so much more that we're connected to, and it puts down all the walls, you can't lie, you can't deceive there, because there's no place to hide.

[SPEAKER_01]: Now, I say that, there's some trickster elements to that space, because I think other things show up, but the answer is yes, I think we'll need this, and it's not technology, it's physiological, it's like a organic, it's evolution.

[SPEAKER_01]: Because we will need it to communicate better, and you know, look, maybe we're upside, homo, upside vision, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: We're better than human, you know, chromagnin, and the endothel, maybe this is the next evolutionary step, and we need it to communicate, and it makes us better, you know, just nicer, kinder, better smarter, better to survive what's coming, whatever that looks like.

[SPEAKER_00]: Do you think this is something that can be hijacked like if someone had maybe an evil intent that they could manipulate through like, I know that we interact with frequencies and if you shine certain frequencies on the body or play frequencies through [SPEAKER_00]: whether it be like a sound delivery or an electromagnetic frequency that it could alter the human state or alter our physiology.

[SPEAKER_00]: Is that something that somebody could shine a certain wavelength on somebody and kind of take over what they're seeing?

[SPEAKER_01]: They could, for my experience, and my doing it, there's definitely things that you see that can be extremely scary, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: So let's just say just like a dream because you horrific things.

[SPEAKER_01]: I've seen horrific things.

[SPEAKER_01]: Now the question is, where are those coming from?

[SPEAKER_01]: Because when I see them, let's just say, I see so many murders, so I mean, this face, I don't have to look at that, I turn away, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, I don't want to see that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Anything like that.

[SPEAKER_01]: I have no idea where they were coming from, is it's coming from, I'm just picking up somebody else's subconscious, or, [SPEAKER_01]: To your point, I do think that you'd be able to add some kind of false waves to this space.

[SPEAKER_01]: However, I believe, if you're in this space, you'll know that they're fake.

[SPEAKER_01]: I could be naive and wishful thinking, but I'll be, you know, they're coming from an ill intention place.

[SPEAKER_01]: Because even the things that are horrible that I see, I don't think they're ill intention, I just think it's what's, I don't know, I shouldn't say that, I have no idea.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I think, yeah, somebody, I don't want to say hijack and they could pollute it or influence it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I do think that, but I think when you're in this space, you know the difference between, you can know the difference, the nuance between, positive and good and maybe harmful or bad or whatever it's we want to use, you know.

[SPEAKER_00]: So if somebody wanted to explore their ability to do this or try to flex that muscle or train that muscle where would they begin like what's an example of something that somebody could do to like try to see a plasma field.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_01]: So that question I can answer.

[SPEAKER_01]: So the first thing there's two law answer with both things.

[SPEAKER_01]: The first one is easier.

[SPEAKER_01]: The hypnagogic state right before you go to sleep.

[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of inventions, creative ideas have happened this space.

[SPEAKER_01]: If you can train yourself, sit on the end of a couch and get yourself in that hypnagogic state and think of something, let's say.

[SPEAKER_00]: So what are you saying hypnagog, not like, not like you're saying.

[SPEAKER_01]: No, no, hypnagogic.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's the state you're in.

[SPEAKER_01]: The brain state you're in.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's the waking dream state right before you fall asleep.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's a very short [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so that's a fade-a-wave state, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yes, believe it.

[SPEAKER_01]: If you get in that state and you start thinking you want to see an elephant and it appears right in front of you That is the first thing now if it appears and you could you would need your eyes open because you're sure You're all about it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, good quiet.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's a fair question.

[SPEAKER_01]: Open or close.

[SPEAKER_01]: It does not matter.

[SPEAKER_01]: It will come through, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: It will come through [SPEAKER_01]: So if you see that, that's the first thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: If you can hold it second, and if you can literally think chains that elephant into somebody riding a bicycle, you're off to the races.

[SPEAKER_00]: Then how's that different than just imagining that?

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, cause it's outside of you.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's a fair question.

[SPEAKER_00]: But if your eyes are closed, like I could see all kinds of things in my, what do you say, like your mind's eye or?

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, this is the part of the, I can do this eyes open or closed, so it comes through the eyelids.

[SPEAKER_01]: So whatever this is, it's not our traditional vision senses.

[SPEAKER_01]: I just want to say that, you know, I don't know what it is.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's, you can maybe make a case, it's a form of third eye, but you can use your third eye also without this, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: That's the challenge.

[SPEAKER_01]: You can use your third eye without this too, but this is a third eye with actually, [SPEAKER_01]: with actually waves that you're seeing.

[SPEAKER_01]: So you can do it eyes open or close.

[SPEAKER_01]: If you can change with the thought off to the races and then if you can hold it over time.

[SPEAKER_01]: Now let me let me talk about that too.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's something called microtubules in the brain, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: And these microtubules release a very very small amount of light.

[SPEAKER_01]: Right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Because I was sitting next to a scientist at the Institute of Duna of Excientists, and he's got something called the orchestrate HR theory of consciousness.

[SPEAKER_01]: And he says, it's the consciousness comes in microtubules when you are getting anesthesia and you're out, you're unconscious, when you're awake with it.

[SPEAKER_01]: It happens in the microtubule state.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not saying it 100% correctly, but the whole idea is that they [SPEAKER_01]: released light because I said to him, I said, well, I'm not really sure if they're holograms that they were they look like to me and it's not like the brain can emit light and he's like actually it can and it does.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, to answer your questions, science behind this, there's the microtubules that are released that are inside the brain that, you know, that's where these lights could be coming from, at least my participation on my side of it.

[SPEAKER_01]: And once I'm seeing that I know we're coming from you or feel like coming from you through the quantum entanglement or everyone [SPEAKER_01]: That's one of the challenges, you know, we got to find out.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's one of the challenges.

[SPEAKER_00]: So go back to the how to.

[SPEAKER_00]: So you get super relaxed, essentially, like you don't sleep.

[SPEAKER_00]: And you have to be aware enough before dosing off, like you have to be in this state and aware enough that you're trying to fixate your attention on.

[SPEAKER_01]: Think of an image.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.

[SPEAKER_01]: Think of an image.

[SPEAKER_01]: Just think of an image that you saw whatever image you want.

[SPEAKER_01]: You can have a picture.

[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't matter.

[SPEAKER_01]: It does not.

[SPEAKER_01]: It could be his graphic detail or a simple as you want.

[SPEAKER_01]: But if you see that, if all of a sudden you realize that it's out in front of you in a holographic form.

[SPEAKER_01]: Because it's not your mind's eye.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, you could literally picture.

[SPEAKER_01]: Let's say a poster of [SPEAKER_01]: Star Wars.

[SPEAKER_01]: You can see all the colors in it.

[SPEAKER_01]: If I saw the Star Wars poster in front of me, it would be clear.

[SPEAKER_01]: It would be translucent.

[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, it'd be moving.

[SPEAKER_01]: It would be moving.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it's not the exactly the same thing, but it's kind of the same thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's based on the Star Wars poster.

[SPEAKER_00]: And you can see how that would be really terrifying for a lot of people with things.

[SPEAKER_00]: So a three-dimensional thing in the space, in the room that they're in in front of them, [SPEAKER_01]: You know, if you were wasted or high, you could think that, yes, and that's probably what happened to me when I was on well.

[SPEAKER_01]: This was going on with my brain, and let's be clear, people have these delusions all the time, because maybe something is opening, they think it's real.

[SPEAKER_01]: So that was also, I wanted to make sure, I mean, I wanted to stay clean and sober.

[SPEAKER_01]: I wanted to make sure, everyone realized I do not need drugs to do this, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: And I know this isn't real.

[SPEAKER_01]: People, the word hallucination is people see something they think it's real.

[SPEAKER_01]: I know this isn't real, but it's also there, you know, and I mean it's coming from somewhere.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, define it's not like I think that person is a Faisal Ben Franklin.

[SPEAKER_01]: I know it's not Ben Franklin.

[SPEAKER_01]: I know it's some kind of waveform simulation of Ben Franklin coming from me, coming and sitting in front of me.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, that's the challenge.

[SPEAKER_01]: And to answer your question, it can be terrifying.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, absolutely.

[SPEAKER_01]: You're like, okay, you just stop doing it.

[SPEAKER_01]: If something is scary, I stop doing it.

[SPEAKER_01]: And sometimes, like, to your point, something scary, things show up.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's funny.

[SPEAKER_00]: You mentioned where it's simulation.

[SPEAKER_00]: I wonder if we are in a simulation, which I know some people discuss.

[SPEAKER_00]: And maybe this is like an artifact of the video game that we're in.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I've talked about one.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think so.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, I think we're living in a simulation.

[SPEAKER_01]: You do know and well, yeah, and this one because one of the reasons because of this right because I'm seeing these simulated things.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's like this is a simulation.

[SPEAKER_01]: I could be a simulation.

[SPEAKER_01]: What's where's it coming from what level is this, you know.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know, it's certainly worth discussing and it makes sense, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: It makes sense.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think we're in a simulation and and also I hope we're not, um, I mean, I guess maybe it would explain some things, but my gut instinct is that that's not what we're experiencing, but I also think we don't really understand nearly as much as our like arrogant, egotistical minds think that we understand.

[SPEAKER_01]: The more people that can do this, the more conversations will have been around it, and there are somebody who will bring insights with different backgrounds than me, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: That's what I want.

[SPEAKER_01]: I want somebody to train physicists, an engineer, a scientist, any kind of a geneticist.

[SPEAKER_01]: I want them to come forward and say, okay, this is what I think it is in here's why, based on their training.

[SPEAKER_00]: Do you think you have a sense of duty because of this special, I don't know what you call it, like GIFTER, a thing that you have in your program and your system?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, let's thank for that question.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think about that a lot because I actually started making a living doing this this year.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was talking about on podcast last year and I was obsessed about this because I felt a duty, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Now I realize this shows like, you know what, I think I can help people, not only is it a duty, but I can make a living at it.

[SPEAKER_01]: So yes, I do feel like it's a calling.

[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like the universe is pulling me forward to do this.

[SPEAKER_01]: Thank God this year that I made a living at it, but I was doing it before that and again, with the scientific paper coming out, there's something externally that's good and valuable and kind that wants me to do this to connect people.

[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I appreciate that question.

[SPEAKER_01]: The answer is yes, I do feel like there's a duty to do this.

[SPEAKER_00]: What do you think people like get out of it?

[SPEAKER_00]: Like I know for me in the last week it's got me thinking about a few things.

[SPEAKER_00]: There are other things that we talked about and honestly like the skeptic in me was like well I kind of prompted you for some of those things so I don't know how [SPEAKER_00]: to hold your feedback and this is not like I'm not attacking the thing or you or the process.

[SPEAKER_00]: I just I don't want to I want to be like is unbiased as I can.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure so I'm like I'm definitely putting more value on the stuff on the early part of the session before you really asked me any questions about myself because I feel like after that you're like what do you want to work on and then my information is obviously going to [SPEAKER_00]: um, affect your process has to.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, um, but I, so I know for me what I've gotten out of so far, it's got me like pondering this idea that I alluded to earlier about the costum and such, and you know, maybe just the attention on that winds up, um, allowing me to shift further and further into a direction that I desire as far as whatever I view myself to be, I don't know, my highest self or whatever, [SPEAKER_00]: whatever my target is or goalpost of aiming for.

[SPEAKER_00]: But on average, or for others, like what do people, like why do people reach out for this service?

[SPEAKER_00]: And what do they look to get out of it?

[SPEAKER_00]: And what do they, what do they report back?

[SPEAKER_00]: I guess what's the feedback you give?

[SPEAKER_00]: What they do get out of it?

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I'll give three different kinds of people.

[SPEAKER_01]: I told you, actually, I told you the business owners and the creative people.

[SPEAKER_01]: But some people want to do it just to see what's there.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's like a radiologist getting a body scan and just to see what's there.

[SPEAKER_01]: People come to it for the fun of that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, the second one is that they're trying to make a decision that they want help on something.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's the most, that's the, I wouldn't say the second, that's the biggest one.

[SPEAKER_01]: So when we look at something like that, so we'll go through a session and I'll see all these things and let's say for example, I'll give you a perfect example of something.

[SPEAKER_01]: So you have to have the intention by the way less, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: With that, so the conversation does have to happen.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, let's say I see somebody doing a business deal, we talk about all the parts of the business deal, and in this thing, every dream part, say the wife enters the picture, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: And the guy says, well, she's not part of this business deal, I don't understand why she keeps coming in, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't either, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Again, this is his stuff.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, come to find out, he talks to the wife, and she doesn't want to do the deal.

[SPEAKER_01]: She thinks it's a bad idea.

[SPEAKER_01]: So things show up that are below the consciousness or there that we don't know about, and it takes time to look at.

[SPEAKER_01]: that's just one example, but when people want to start when people are stuck, people are curious about what's there, people want to look about a relationship, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: They're like, okay, why are these things happening?

[SPEAKER_01]: Again, we're asking these questions fair enough and the universe is going to show us what it shows us and a lot of people have these blocks.

[SPEAKER_01]: I would say the biggest [SPEAKER_01]: They put these blocks up in themselves, and they show up, and we kind of chip away at them, or I key a furniture model.

[SPEAKER_01]: I give them the tools, I give them the furniture, but they do the work later with a friend of therapist or a mentor.

[SPEAKER_01]: Those are the different ways people come forward.

[SPEAKER_01]: Interesting.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, this is an interesting topic, Tom.

[SPEAKER_00]: You have a weird line of work.

[SPEAKER_01]: And the idea, I do.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm glad that you found a way to pay your bills with it, I guess.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, me too.

[SPEAKER_01]: Me too.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it's fun.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I, like I said, I do think it's a calling.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it's a pleasure.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, anything else unfolds with your reading.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, to let me know, I'd be curious about that too.

[SPEAKER_01]: But people can see look at some people I've read online and they can look at the reviews and stuff like that.

[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, if they reach out and they want to get a reading, I'd be happy to do it.

[SPEAKER_01]: But even if not just spreading the word that this is happening, that was my goal from the beginning.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's more important than even the other thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, if they want to learn more, you said you had a book out on the topic, or?

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, no, the book is my psychotic year.

[SPEAKER_01]: Jesus goes to Hollywood and how more madness.

[SPEAKER_01]: Actually, let me finish on that.

[SPEAKER_01]: If you're struggling and going through a addiction or anything or else and you have a family that's going through it, if I could come out of it the other side and be better, then I know they can too.

[SPEAKER_01]: I wanted to say that.

[SPEAKER_01]: This book is about my one psychotic year.

[SPEAKER_01]: and how I got through it because it was really, really bad.

[SPEAKER_01]: The worse, you know, other than, I'm still alive.

[SPEAKER_01]: Any bad thing that you could think happened did, but I came out the other side and I'm better for it.

[SPEAKER_01]: But that's what the book is about, is definitely not about upside-fishing.

[SPEAKER_00]: Good.

[SPEAKER_01]: the eight stages of episode.

[SPEAKER_00]: Good for you by the way for.

[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.

[SPEAKER_00]: Getting through addiction is tough.

[SPEAKER_00]: I myself have quit.

[SPEAKER_00]: I've had dealt with theictions of cocaine and alcohol and opiates and quit them all and it's a thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: The eighth stage is upside vision is a free PDF, you can get on my website, just got to put your email in and download it, and if it resonates with you do that too, but yeah, it was a pleasure.

[SPEAKER_01]: I really enjoyed this time.

[SPEAKER_01]: Glad we got to connect today other than the reading from the other day.

[SPEAKER_00]: And all your readings are that they're all via like a zoom call or do you do any of these in person?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I just did one last week.

[SPEAKER_01]: I do about a handful of months in it land a metro land area.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, you can sign up for all of them online or in person either way.

[SPEAKER_00]: So you have like a space.

[SPEAKER_01]: And office for this, I go, I got done, I never do it in my home.

[SPEAKER_01]: I go to their office or I go really, last week, I just don't, you know, last week, I go to their office or their home last week, we did it in a park, which is really cool.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's a little harder because the light, but we found a shelter.

[SPEAKER_00]: So you need a dark space, preferably.

[SPEAKER_01]: I definitely like to not be in my eyes.

[SPEAKER_01]: I could do it, but it will my eyes so much stuff gets him to make no mistake.

[SPEAKER_01]: I can still see him, but it's just a little more stuff comes in than it's just draining is the word.

[SPEAKER_00]: And for people that want to check out more of your stuff, for value, where do you, where do they just go to Tom at the website, Tomat.com.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm on.

[SPEAKER_01]: Instagram, upside vision, Google upside vision in my name, you'll find my website, you'll find my all my social media and follow me wherever you want.

[SPEAKER_01]: Actually, I'm not even a lot on social media.

[SPEAKER_01]: But from time to time, you can follow all of them.

[SPEAKER_01]: Instagram, Instagram, maybe X.

You're not allowed by, I just don't, I'm busy.

[SPEAKER_01]: You're doing the readings, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: I do this.

[SPEAKER_01]: I do podcasts.

[SPEAKER_01]: They talk about it.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then I get a couple of weeks has filled up with readings.

[SPEAKER_00]: OK.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's how that works.

[SPEAKER_00]: And can you repeat if people want to learn about that study reference?

[SPEAKER_00]: What was the organization or something?

[SPEAKER_01]: Ions.

[SPEAKER_01]: The Institute of Noetic Science Science, just Google are type in ions and then the word upside vision and two blogs will come up.

[SPEAKER_01]: And one of those are actually both of them link to a preprint of an academic paper that's coming out soon.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, that's the final version is coming out.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think the last week of November, again, and they'll get more attention and interest around it at that time, too.

[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, well, time, I wanna appreciate you taking the time.

[SPEAKER_00]: Appreciate the offering of your service last week.

[SPEAKER_00]: That was an interesting process.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm still gonna think on that a little bit.

[SPEAKER_00]: And for listeners, always grateful for your listening.

[SPEAKER_00]: Hope you enjoyed the conversation today.

[SPEAKER_00]: And hope you enjoy the rest of your day.

[SPEAKER_01]: All right, thank you, bless.