This Hope Radio for the Masses headline of US.

July eighth, nineteen forty seven.

The Army Air Force has announced that applying this help be found and there's now in the possession of the ARBA.

The game we'd changed the game change.

I occasionally think how quickly our difference is worldwide would vanish if we were facing an alien threat from outside this work.

This is Day to Black.

It's your host, Jimmy Church on the Game Changer Radio Network.

All Right, good evening, how you doing.

How you doing?

It's Fade to Black.

Yeah, it is Monday, October twentieth, twenty twenty five.

Let's do this man.

Yeah, I'm your Stummi Church.

Kicking off another week here on Fade to Black.

Tonight, Let's Villez is back with us talking about et abduction.

Tonight we're gonna be talking about UFOs all night long.

Very excited about this.

Some three i atlasts for sure.

And tomorrow night Trey Hudson is back.

He's got a new documentary out.

It's called Helm and Lens and The Metal Project.

Also that documentary all of this is launching tomorrow night.

Trey Hudson joins us Wednesday night, John Caruth is here.

What is a poltergeist?

Just in time for Halloween?

What else is just in time for Halloween?

Thursday?

Yeah, we're off air because I am going to a Halloween party with some friends.

Yeah.

Yeah, I kind of let the cat out of the back tonight.

Dead Elvis.

I'm gonna do Dead Elvis, which means I have to shave my go tea that Elvis didn't have a go tea.

I don't know if you guys know this, but I'm gonna do Dead Elvis.

Yeah, I'm gonna do Dead Elvis.

Yeah.

I got a couple of friends coming over to help me with my makeup.

It's gonna be a lot of fun.

So that is going down Thursday.

Yeah, we'll post pictures.

Yeah, it's my favorite time of the year.

I really enjoyed this time of the year.

From my birthday last week and then that rolls into Halloween, which rolls into Thanksgiving, and then of course Christmas and then New Year's.

Man, it's just a great couple of months right there for me personally.

There you go last night, well I woke up this morning.

Well, probably like some of you, I would say most of you, I just don't know where all of you live all right.

But woke up this morning and saw the headlines major worldwide Internet outage.

I was like, oh, holy crap, what And I thought, well, it's not that worldwide because I'm reading about it on my iPhone.

I apparently slept through the Great Internet Outage of twenty twenty five, and wasn't that interesting the panic, Because the panic is real.

Anything goes on with the Internet, everything is.

Everything is connected these days.

Traffic lights, your food distribution, your wallet, your banking.

Yeah, of course, you know social media.

That's a small part of it.

Everything else on this planet is Internet now.

And what would happen if it all just went away?

Dark Ages?

Yeah, Dark Ages.

I have seven events coming up in twenty twenty six, in combination with everything else that I do, which is of course Shooting Beyond Believe and this show Fade to Black.

In addition to all of that coming up in twenty twenty six, the Conscious Life Expo that is February twentieth through the twenty third right here in Los Angeles at the lax Hilton.

Right after that is the Sedona Ascension Retreat March twentieth through the twenty second in Sedona, Arizona.

After that the Contact Modalities Expo May first through the third and Delavan, Wisconsin at Delavan Lake.

And then it's Contact in the Desert May twenty eight through June first, twenty twenty six.

Tickets on sale coming up this Thanksgiving Day.

After that, I go to Peru with Brian Forster for the INCA Celebration of the Sun.

That is a huge event and it's absolutely amazing.

That is June twenty third through July first, twenty twenty six.

After that, I go over to the United Kingdom for the Monty Python Tour of Scotland that is August first through the ninth, twenty twenty six.

I come back from that, go back to Peru with Brian Forrester, this time to Easter Island.

Ah.

Yeah, very busy twenty twenty six.

Yeah, yep, yep.

So when I post those pictures on social media, let's we'll appreciate that I work.

I work seven days a week.

I get very very few days off, and my days off now are precious to me.

Right riding my Harley, spending time alone.

I love hanging out with people, but I do it so much that actually just not being around people that is what is precious.

So when you see me post pictures going Okay, I'm doing it, think about that I've got a couple hours off somewhere and I just get to go and do something because everything else is just a service to the community out there getting stuff done all year long, and I couldn't do it without all of you.

It's it's just it's my life mission, it is my bliss, just like Less Bellez Less.

I'm not exactly sure when Lesson I first met, I do remember, I do remember this.

I'm gonna have to ask Less.

He pulled up, Man, where were we?

He pulled up and like my memory, I don't want to embarrass him.

Maybe I'm not.

He pulled up in like a new Cadillac, right.

He pulls up, Man, and it was just glowing.

He's glowing, gets out and he's like Jimmy Less all right, cool.

And that was the first time that I've met Less.

I have followed him because he lives here in California, of course, and he's always been a member of Moufon and of course he created OPUS, the Organization for Paranormal Understanding and Support.

The other things around us is he's a graduate of the University of Vermont Bachelor of Science degree in Business administration.

After that he went to the US Army and got into the civilian life and worked for an engineering firm.

But then he joined moufon in nineteen ninety one.

He did everything field investigator, training coordinator, assistant state director in Northern California, which is when I met him.

Chairman of the AEERC, the Abduction Experience or Research Committee, and the team leader of ART, the Abduction Response Team.

So we're going to be talking about all of that tonight and much more.

I would like to welcome back to Fate to Black, the one and only spell as Less is right there, Less, Good evening.

Age, Jimmy, how are you birthday?

Yeah?

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Brother.

We're the same age, so happy birthday to you Less.

Do you remember do I have that right?

Was it like a Cadillac?

Well, and I still have that same Cadillac, So it's like eleven years old.

Now, so it was brand new when I first met it.

It looked new.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, it was in Sacramento.

We met in Sacramento.

You were you were doing some gig there and I was there, and uh yeah, I definitely remember that, and then you had a little uh soiree up in your suite.

I remember, and uh we went up there and had a really nice time chatting with people who had a great time.

Yeah, I remember all of that.

We had such a good time, and I remember Richard Dolan was there.

Yeah.

Uh you And it's all a fog now think about things like that.

But that that moment that you pulled up in the Cadillac.

I never forgot that.

Man.

It's just weird.

You know, the rest of the conference I don't remember, but I remember less in the Cadillac, remember less in the Catalac.

Welcome back, my friend.

It's good to see you.

It's good to see you, to see you.

Now.

I want to jump into this because there's a lot of different things to talk about tonight.

I do want to talk about opus and abductions, and we'll spend the majority of the show on that.

But right now, we've got something cruising through our solar system.

You know, it's called three I Atlas.

It's got a lot of attention.

It's behaving very strange.

I've got my own opinions.

What are yours?

What do you think is going on with three IE Atlas?

Yeah, I think.

I think what we're dealing with is basically an aberration to a normal comment.

And I'm not really of the camp that believes that this is some alien object that's coming into our solar system.

I believe it's probably some weird natural phenomena that that's happening.

Now.

The latest thing that I've heard, and I don't know if you've read much about this part of it, but supposedly a beam of light has been shown our way in some way, shape or form, which I'm not sure about.

I have not heard other than other than that fact alone, as to what it could possibly be.

But I'm just thinking that it's it's more of a natural phenomena than a something that's extraterrestrial in nature.

Hmm.

Okay, I'm not into debating, but I'll argue with a friend.

Okay, Okay, So this is this is this is where I'm kind of tripping out a little bit less right now as you and I are talking, I mean right in the now.

Now we have not one but two comments up that we can look at and observe two at the same time, and then we have this third object three I Atlas.

So now we've got three in our sky at the same time.

And I don't know if any time in history anything like this has ever happened before.

If three Eye at Liss turns out to be a comment, then we've got three comets at the same time.

That's crazy.

But we have two comments up there that we know are comments, and we can compare those two to three Eye at Lias and they're not the same.

That's right.

Just back up and go.

You know, something is strange here, and it just maybe I'm okay with this.

Three I at lists maybe an et probe that's out checking out the Milky Way and it cruised through our star system.

And that's that's kind of where I'm feeling right now.

Only you know why, because we have two other comments that we can look at.

I went outside right before the show, right after our soundcheck.

Right I'm outside, and I looked at the comment that's right below.

It's Swan, the one that's right below the big Dipper, and you can see it naked eye.

You look right at it, and I took a picture of it, you know what, So check this out.

I took this picture.

I wasn't planning on showing this on the show, but so I took this picture and you this how do I say this with with a cell phone you can see it perfectly, but oh no, you can't see it.

Crap.

Well it's right there, it's right there, and you can see the green tail coming below it, or it's above it, and that's a comet and you can see it with your naked eye.

Three I atlas.

Everything that we know about comments three eyes doesn't have.

Yeah, yeah, it's it's different.

And one of the things that I don't know if you saw this thing about this remote viewer guy, it was talking about the fact that this is an object that's alien controlled and that they're coming here to pick up the star seeds.

Okay, so right, right, right, right right.

I don't jump in the deep end of that pool, you know.

Plus we have back with comet hail Bop and and everything that happened with that.

You know what, I'm just not going to go there.

And I love it.

I love the wu I love the Do you know how many remote viewers have emailed me about what they've read about the comment and what they found out.

I've got it, yeah, you know, I've.

Got twenty five emails, twenty five different versions to the story.

You know, I've got radio communications and things that are going back and forth.

All right, all right, all right, yeah, anything is possible.

See, that's the other thing.

Last you and I have been at this for a long time.

One thing that you and I have learned.

Anything is possible.

I don't dismiss anybody's experiences.

I just I don't.

I've seen too much weird stuff myself, and I hear it come out of my mouth this crazy, and I'm like, what, I got to stop saying that, because I know how crazy it sounds.

I do, But I just want the same respect out of everybody else that I give them.

I listen to everything.

I really can't dismiss anything because I've experienced too much strangeness, haven't you.

Oh?

Absolutely?

You know.

It's like you said, I mean, we've experienced so much in the last couple of years, especially with the congressional hearings that have been going on, that you know, like, oh, that is this an alien craft that has come through our solar system from another galaxy now to this one the AI Atlas situation.

Anything is possible?

Is it probable that this is an alien craft?

I tend to lean like, okay, it's maybe forty nine percent maybe or less than that, even that it is some kind of alien craft, but it's unusual, there's no question about it where it's come from.

And so you know, right away we start to imagine certain things and conjecture certain things that are possibilities in all of this, and so I'm open to it.

I'm open to it.

I mean, if they all of a sudden stop that damn thing right outside our atmosphere, that's a whole nother another ballgame.

Yeah, we uh tomorrow and forward right three, I Atlas is going to be out from behind the sun and we will be able to point everything at it and see what will be interesting.

Here's the difference.

What will be interesting is will will they share what they find?

Right?

Will they share what?

If it is et?

Are they going to share that?

But here's the other.

This is the problem.

The government's not in the control of this narrative like they used to be.

There are too many amateur astronomers with amazing telescopes and videok abilities that we'll be tracking this too as well, So you can't you can't make stuff up.

There's too many people that are going to be looking at this and just like last week on the fifteenth, we had a fifty sixty foot asteroid come within sixty thousand miles of Earth on the fifteenth.

That's pretty close, right, considering the Moon is two hundred and fifty thousand miles away, so it was, you know, very close twenty five percent of the distance front to the Moon and it's fifty It was discovered two days before by amateur astronomers, right, And that's they're always looking to the sky.

They're looking at all the time, and that's the one thing that the government is not in control of, but's like.

Yeah, I mean it's it's like these Ham radio operators that listen in on what NASA is talking to the to the uh, the astronauts on the Moon and all of that.

I mean, we've we've gotten some really interesting information that way.

So yes, it will be interesting to see what comes forward now with this object coming closer and closer to us.

Yeah, yeah, don't forget.

We just had the rapture last month, and you and I still are still here, So yes, we are.

We missed the rapture.

You and I are.

Yeah, or bad very bad.

Bad seeds, bad seeds, and so having this come through.

My question is the same that I think is on everybody else's mind.

If it turns out to be extraterrestrial, some kind of interstellar probe just sent here to check things out, can the world handle it?

And my aunt, yes, what is yours?

Yeah?

I think that probably seventy to eighty percent of the people on this planet will be able to handle it, but the rest will have a difficult time with it.

Whether you're a devout Christian or Christian nationalist or what have you, I think those groups might have a really difficult time in handling all of this.

I don't want to get into politics, but the bottom line is that I think the majority of the people and I agree with you, that we'll be able to handle this.

And we've been talking about this for years and years, that we're not alone in this universe, and so now all of a sudden, if this actually comes to fruition that we have definitive proof that we're not alone, it's like this conscious dissonance that we all have dealt with for years and years will vanish, will disappear, because there no choice in the matter.

It's like they are here, we know about them, and they are not here in a majority of cases, and I'm not saying all the cases, but in a majority of the cases, they're pretty benevolent.

Yeah, I would say that that's the case.

I mean, if they weren't, you and I wouldn't be talking right now.

And I know that that's that's been something that's been repeated for a long time, but you know, it's something new that kind of thought.

But I tend to agree with that side.

Here's the other thing.

What if it is an ET probe and it doesn't stop and it keeps on going.

And I guess my answer to that would be, well, they took a look and they saw Earth, and they went yep, trailer park.

You know, they've still got The smartest person on the planet is Neil de grasse Tyson.

They're not ready, They're not ready.

They're not ready.

Let's just keep going.

We'll be back in one hundred years.

Time is not right, not.

Quite right.

So I mean, I going we'll jump into the abduction phenomenon here in a second.

But one of the things that you have heard, we have all have heard over the years, is this constant regurgitating of this mantra that Earth is not ready.

And then on the flip side of that, the contactes and others are looking for somebody to come and save us, to give us the secrets of everything.

And I just don't think that's how it's supposed to play out.

Waiting for somebody to come and save this planet, or them saying that we are not ready, that we need to think about cleaning up the planet and the animals and pollution and nuclear this and that.

I think those are all trivial matters to e T.

I don't think that that would be a reason for not contacting us.

I think it would be more of a consciousness evolution thing that we haven't done yet.

Yeah.

I have to disagree with you a little bit there, Jimmy, because of the number of people that my organization and me personally have dealt with that these these people that have been abducted, okay, almost without exception, come back with a totally different worldview that is very positive.

That we do need to, as you mentioned, the better stewards of the planet, to be better to one another, to be more loving.

These are all very positive.

I totally agree with you.

I totally yeah.

And and and so I think that if if enough people we reach a critical mass with regard to this way of thinking that this place could be a lot better.

That, yes, we're fucking up the planet, excuse my French, when we're doing a great job with that.

That was a correct use of the word, by the way, oh.

Oh, thank you, And that if we continue to do this, we're not going to have a planet that you and I can live on, or our grandkids can live on, or anybody can live on.

And we need to take drastic action very very soon because of what's going on.

I mean, you know, we got the Gulf Stream that's starting to slow down, and what are the ramifications of that.

I mean, there's so many ramifications as far as what the global climate is doing.

You know, whether the sea levels are rising, which they are, there's no question about it.

I had a relative that was in the in the Air Force, high up in the Air Force, and he told me like ten years ago that yes, the sea levels are going to rise by three meters that's nine feet.

Can you imagine some of these places are going to be underwater?

You know, New York City has got a real big problem coming up if that or you know, raises that high.

But I mean, the bottom line on all of This is the fact that I think the majority of the people that have had contact are coming back with positive feelings about how we should move forward in our lives and how we deal with the planet.

And I think that that's extremely important.

Now, yes, there are people that have had terrible situations experiences, but luckily that's a small number of people, maybe twenty five to thirty percent of the people that have had contact, But the vast majority have been very positive.

I've got a twisted mind, I will admit that.

Okay, So if you look inside my head, man, okay, but here's my take on that.

And this is where the government has got it flipped over backwards.

But maybe the cabal and whoever's running this planet, maybe it's what they want.

But hear me out.

If you tell us that we are not alone in the universe and that we have made contact, then the entire mindset of the planet changes, and now we have a reason to be Earthlings and take care of this place for our space brothers and sisters.

You want to clean up your apartment before your parents come over, right, okay, and you want to take you know what I mean?

If you tell us that you know we have a goal a reason for the future and our children and our grandchildren, future generations.

But if you tell us that we are alone in the universe, bucket, let's party.

Let's burn this sucker down.

There's no reason for anything free, Heroine, you know what I mean.

I'm serious that the mindset of the planet would change for the negative, and and it would be chaos.

There wouldn't be a Do you know how dark of a thought that would be, that we are just alone in the blackness?

Well, I think I think, you know, you bring up an interesting point because I think that's what religion is all about.

I think this is like a control mechanism, okay, And unfortunately religion has gone in directions that maybe are not not as positive as it should be, you know.

And I think what we've lost with with our civilization and spirituality and being and being open to being good to one another and and and doing the right things with each other.

Uh.

And you're right again, Luss, you are so spot on.

I like the way you think.

If if if if if if if.

If it's disclosed that we are alone in the universe, then there is no religion.

There is nothing, There's absolutely nothing.

We're in a two d chemical existence where nothing matters consciousness, this everything, and that who fah, you would have worldwide problems at that point.

It's saying that we're not alone in the universe changes everything.

It's one of the paramount you know, it's a non trivial question.

It's like the biggest question, it's the biggest one.

Are we alone?

What is out there?

We've been asking that since the dawn of man.

Yeah, and you know, you talk about the Big Bang and everything, and my big question is what the hell was there before the Big Bang?

And who was in control?

Who was in control of that?

And I think this is when we start to really wonder about the fact that is there some mega intelligence that's running the show that we just don't have an understanding.

We're dealing with a different reality.

This reality that we're dealing with here, as you say, two planes, you know, two dimensional kind of a thing, but now there's a third dimension and a fourth dimension and now multiple dimensions that we're dealing with.

And this is the kind of thing that it's hard to get our minds wrapped around all of this.

And we're starting to you know, pick away at the edges of this whole phenomena which is remarkable that's been with us forever.

I mean, this reality that we're dealing with these entities, whether they're extraterrestrial in nature, whether they're time travelers, whether they're interdimensional in nature, whether it's our military, or is it all the above, or anything you could possibly think of.

I mean, it's incredible our ability.

This is what I really enjoy.

Well, hold on less at any point in time.

You can go back one hundred years, right, you go back one hundred eighteen ninety.

There was a physicist, a scientist.

I can't remember who this is attributed to, but this was the famous quote in eighteen ninety.

We've learned everything.

There's nothing left to know.

Right Well, you back that up twenty years you could say this, and you look right now at twenty twenty five, and we have learned a lot.

And as Earthlings now our ability to understand, which increases every day, We understand more and more and we know things.

Our ability to now think about things like extra dimensions and interdimensional this and that, and consciousness and the size of the universe.

These are things that weren't possible just fifty years ago, you know, sixty years ago, seventy years ago, and today the average person average on this planet, because of the Marvel Universe, knows what the multiverse is right, understands the basics of time travel, understands what quantum is and the quantum worlds.

And that's crazy that just like average people can have these conversations that were just absolute science fiction fifty years ago.

Oh absolutely, that timeframe fifty years how far we have come.

Right now?

I work out three times a week and when I got one of the machines, it's a Pelkorn machine, and they have a section that you can tap into called Science Tech, and some of the articles that are in Science Tech are just blows your mind of talking about quantum, talking about various other topics and how to go into DNA and manipulate that and then cause certain things to happen in a certain way that would cause us to be less susceptible to certain diseases and things of that nature.

Science is progressing at a rapid pace now with AI on top of all of that.

I tell you, Jimmy, within the next ten years, you're not going to recognize anything anymore.

It's going to be just so different, so different, and hopefully hopefully you and I will still be here to talk about it.

So last last week I had Lawrence Kraus on the show.

And Lawrence one of the big thinkers, you know, one of those rock star physicists, and he's wrote some powerful books and I've followed his career and he's influenced me a lot.

But here's the thing, and having somebody you know of his, you know level, on the show, I write a Harley you know, I'm not some PhD dude, but I'm interested in the stuff and I am pretty smart, and I have a logic side of my brain.

And there I caught Lawrence and I'm not busting his chops.

It's the intellectual community in general think this way that they they want to compare and et advanced et civilization to what we know now, and that doesn't work.

Anything that's out there that can visit this planet his way beyond where you know a guy like Lawrence Cross who understands physics and theoretical physics and crazy, he's very, very smart.

But where we are going to be in fifty years or one hundred years, You're going to look back at string theory or Brian Green or any of these intellectuals that are running for Lawrence Cross today and look at it as the stone ages where we are going to be and so trying to figure out how et is getting here, We're going to have a whole different outlook on it in fifty years or one hundred years versus the way we understand the laws of physics today.

Right, I'm not crazy thinking that I might.

Absolutely you're right on.

I mean, I've always kind of laughed at some of our physicists that said, well, that's impossible, you can't do that bullshit exactly.

I mean, it's like, come on, open up your minds.

You've got to be able to think beyond what you know.

You have to understand the possibilities that exist, that there are physics that we don't understand, and we're finding out more things every day about the things that we don't understand.

And I think that the fact that these entities, whoever they might be, are coming here in a way that we totally don't understand, have no you know, no concept of even understanding it.

And so I think that we need to be more open minded.

Our scientific community needs to be more open minded.

And there is a there now it's starting to happen.

There are more and more people coming forward that are opening up their minds to to try to understand this.

You know, you know Gary Nolan's group, the Sole Group, you know that, you know, bringing those people together.

I mean that's fantastic.

I mean absolutely fantastic.

And and and uh Robert Powell and his SCU group that's looking at all these phenomena as well.

I mean, it's it's it's it's great.

It's great that we're starting to open up a little bit, opening up our Kimona if you will.

Yeah, you know, I asked Lawrence about that last week, literally asked him that question.

You know, what, what do you think about the criticism that you know, science, the science community doesn't have an open mind?

He's bullshit?

Well got him more fully.

Oh no, no, no, no, no no.

I was like, see that's the problem right there.

Right then, you've got the blinders on.

You've got the blinders on.

This is my take, this is my I'm going to give you my take.

I want you to laugh.

Okay, but I think what I'm about to say I think is fact.

Okay, it's not imagination.

Right now, on some planet in the Milky Way, there's a husband and wife watching TV.

Right e t right kick him back, and he turns to his wife and says, hey, you want to go to Earth and get some in and out.

We can be back in a half an hour before the kids get home from school.

All right, let's go and because it's easy, right, you know, you and I can jump in your Cadillac and go to in and out and be back before the show starts.

Right.

Why, you know, one hundred years ago, one hundred and fifty years ago, that would be some black magic voodoo shit now nobody would even understand.

But today it's just what you do, and it's got to be the same thing for et Well.

You know, you know Arthur C.

Clark, you know, famously said that, you know, all of this looks like magic to us, what the aliens can do, and it totally is for us at this point in time, it's totally magic.

And so anything is possible, Absolutely anything is possible.

Let's let's talk about abductions for a second.

I'm going to start here.

When okay, when you look at the subject of abductions, something that I've researched for fifty years, right, and you look at this, they are what we don't hear about today is like the classic abduction, all right, the classic, the classic thing, and we have you know, going back to like George van Tassel, certainly Betty and Barney Hill, or Travis Walton or Pasca Goula and everything else, you know, where we can look at very specific cases and the methodology to it, and it seems that pattern has changed, or has it.

And the other thing is we certainly don't have a lack of people making contact today.

We hear about it, probably more so than ever.

So has have abductions changed over the years or do they still occur in the classic sense and we just don't hear about it.

No, there is still occurring in the classic sense, very equly.

And the only reason why it seems like it's happening more and more is the fact that we're able to communicate the way we can communicate with our social media, with the various groups that are out there now, there's more and more groups that are paying attention to this kind of thing besides opus, and so I think that people are now, especially with the congressional hearings that are going on, they're feeling a lot more comfortable and coming forward and talking about their cases.

These cases all start off the same way.

It is a mind blowing situation for the person that has has contact like this, especially in the first one or two instances, and it's it's terrifying.

It's terrifying.

It's it's very negative to be pulled out of your bedroom or out of your car, or wherever you happen to be in your office, it can be anywhere that these kind of things go on, and they they do not understand what's going on.

They have no you know, they have no conception of the outcome that's going to occur, and so it's it's it's a very difficult time for these people.

And so what we found, and we've done a number of studies.

The first one was the Omega three study that we did was funded by move On back in twenty oh seven, and we found that these people did not have a psychopathology.

They were totally saying they came back with a change worldview.

These people that did have experiences, their temporal lobe activity was quite different.

And so we've been looking at that kind of factor.

But the bottom line is at as these things continue to go, people begin to accept what's going on.

And they find that at a certain point they don't want them to stop.

They want to continue because of the the the relationship that is developed with these entities, uh, you know, whether they're extraterrestrial, whether they're in a dimensional, whatever their energy beings or whatever they may be, like in the case of Chris Bludsoe, you know, and and the female entity Angel.

So it is a reality we just bill do not understand.

Uh and and and it's dramatic and how it affects people.

Some people have an extremely difficult time in trying to deal with this kind of thing.

And I mean it wrecks their lives.

They can't talk to their family members, they they have issues at work, they're afraid to bring this up.

And so that's what Opus is about.

We try to help these kind of people.

Do you think that, Okay, here's so the classic story.

I'm gonna use metaphor.

I'm just gonna make this up, right, But Okay, So I was driving, I saw I saw a light, pulled the car over, craft landed, three beings came out and pulled me out of my car through the windshield, right followed floated me across.

I did my feet didn't touch the ground.

The next thing you know, I'm on a metal table in a round, stainless steel room and stuff started to go down.

Okay, there's that, which is a physical experience.

Right then I have mine and I was regressed.

And during that regression, it was revealed to me that I went on a ship for five seconds and saw it and observed it, and then I was back on the ground.

Vivid, right, vivid.

And it's now that memories unlocked in my head.

It's crazy to me now I didn't know about it before.

Did did that experience happen as a physical experience for me and I didn't remember it?

Or or less?

Was it an inter dimensional experience that is just as real as anything else, like a d MT trip or whatever?

Right going to another dimension?

Was it?

Yeah?

Was it that?

I don't know.

I don't know, But to me, it seems that et any advanced race less would understand extra dimensions and may exist in another time scale that's beyond our own that we don't even see or experience unless we are in that dimension.

And that may be a large part.

This is why I say that back before World War Two, radar was a different situation, and we didn't have, you know, that was emerging technology.

We didn't have satellites, we didn't have sensor systems orbiting the Earth, we didn't have anything.

But today we can see a physical craft coming right, and they know that now, so that now they have to get around the ability of getting detected right.

And so maybe there is a serious interdimensional component to this with contact that we never had before.

Totally totally.

I mean, you know, you you talk about your particular situation, I mean it could be out of body type of a phenomena that happens, and this is very common as well.

And these these are the kind of things whether you know they're dreams of being out of body, it's all possible.

And we again, we just don't fully understand how these mechanisms really work.

I mean, we talk about time travel, we talk about time and space, you know, types of variations where people can be brought back before they're taken, or taken before they're brought back.

I mean, this is just an amazing manipulation of time and space that these entities seem to be able to have.

And so talk about messing with your mind, they certainly have that ability, uh to telepathically do things to us where we we I've been told I've been on a ship before.

Okay.

One one day and one of the support group meetings that I was running, a person came up to me and said, I've seen you before, and I said, oh, really at a UFO.

No, no, no, I saw you on board the craft.

Well I kind of blew it off.

I didn't think much about it, and then it was like a year and a half later, a totally different person came up to me after the meeting and said the same damn thing, and I said, word, do you forgot?

No?

No, no, you were.

You were sitting on this bench naked.

You were freaking out.

They told me to go over to you to calm you down.

And so at that point I decided to go get regressed.

And so I went and got regressed.

I had three separate past lives, very different past lives.

With clothes on or offlos with clothes on.

It was.

I was totally closed, but I had no recollect of doing anything on a board on board a craft.

And then I talked to a person subsequently and they said, well, perhaps in that particular lifetime, one of your past lifetimes, you were abducted and that's when you you know, this person tapped into it.

And that's the thing about this whole phenomena, that they are able to mix time and space in a way that it just it's very difficult to put your finger on it and to understand it the way that we normally understand things.

When uh.

One of the criticisms that we all hear that I that I've said myself is that with regression, people are influenced by the movies, by things that they've read, things that they've been told their friends, and they're going to formulate something in their imagination and that's all it is, and and so forth.

Okay, all right, I've said that too.

But then I was regressed and I had that experience, and I don't hold that faith, and it's not believed, it's more of a faith.

I don't look at it that way anymore.

But the description that I gave of who was in the room and I was there, I've never heard anything like that.

And I have repeated this on the air, but also to friends and experiencers and therapists and so forth, and they all said, wow, really no, So what came out of my mind has surprised me.

What came out of my mouth was interesting even to me.

I had never heard a description like that in the past, so obviously I was an influenced.

There was no steel examining table in the room or anything like that.

And I didn't even see the walls, you know.

I couldn't describe any of that.

It was just all black.

It was like everything was floating.

And well, when you were talking to the therapist, I mean, the bottom line is how you reacted to it.

And I remember mine.

I was so emotional, so emotional, and you were probably very emotional when you were talking about this.

No, I wasn't.

No, as a matter of fact, And I played some of the video clubs.

We did this for my TV show, Okay, And so I'm lying on the couch.

Sarah's next to me right here, Sarah Brestman cosme she's amazing.

So she's doing the session and I go this and I remember less.

I swear to all that toly when this moment happened, I was so confused.

I didn't know what was going on.

But my arms are on my I'm like that, and this is what comes out of my mouth.

Jimmy doesn't know about this, and I went, who's talking?

Is there somebody else in the room here right there?

You know, there's three of us.

This is my thought process.

I was.

I was a little frightened that this voice came out and just said this.

I was like, what do you mean?

I don't know about this?

What are you talking about?

Okay, well you're about to find out, you know, something like that.

And and this memory was just unlocked.

Poop, just like that.

It was only five seconds.

That's it.

That's it beginning to end.

Yeah.

The only way, the only way I can describe it less is I was beamed up.

I know it's a Star Trek thing, but just imagine that.

It was like I was beamed up.

I looked around the room.

This dude looked at me and nodded his head, like what's up, and he turned back around.

I look and just as I absorbed the room room, I'm back on the ground looking up at the craft.

And I remember seeing the craft.

I saw that.

I was with a group of friends and we all saw it pull in.

It was gold.

It was gold.

It was like gold, and was right above us, not very far a thousand feet or so, and stopped right a butt and we're all looking at.

It like whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

Whoa, because it approached us from a distance and then stopped and then went straight up into the stars above us.

It was crazy.

And that's apparently when that whole five second thing happened.

You know, that's incredible.

I mean, you didn't you didn't have enough time to even get emotional.

It just happened so quickly for you.

But I mean most of the people that have had experiences that go get regressed.

It becomes a very emotional type of a situation where they're telling this story of what happened to them.

And that's that's the part for me that it seems to make me believe that these things are actually happening.

It's not just a thought process that's going on.

This is real.

And of course they come back with marks on their body, implants, and various other telltale signs of the fact that something has happened to them.

Yeah.

I came back with Fender and Gibson tattoos on my forearm.

It's proof, man, it's proof.

Yeah, that's it.

Yeah.

The the other part of this with with your group, I love the TV show People of Earth, and I've watched it, you know, so many times both seasons.

I wish they would have continued it.

It was too good.

Yeah, that's good.

Is that it's it's dude, it's real.

I've been to many meetings.

Right, they're spot on.

But that's pretty close, isn't it.

Are your meetings very similar?

Well?

You know, Well, the thing is, you know, years and years ago now, since Opus has been in business since nineteen ninety four, so over thirty years.

You know, we had a lot of local support type meetings in northern California that I facilitated, and so they were very very much like that, very much like that.

Nowadays, what we do is we have a confidential online support group where we have over five hundred people from around the world that are chatting, you know, twenty four to seven with one another about their experiences and by the way, did you have that kind of experience, I've had this kind of particular experience.

Did you have one of those?

And so these people are kind of talking about what they experience and understand that they're not alone.

And it's proved to be probably the most helpful thing for these people to understand that they are not alone, because most of the time.

They can't talk to family members, they can't talk to clergy, they can't talk to their fellow workers because they're afraid of you know, people thinking they're crazy.

Oh they're not.

The truer words have never been spoken.

In nineteen ninety five less.

I'm not going to tell the whole story.

It doesn't matter.

But I had a little thing that happened.

I was living alone in Sherman Oaks and I had somebody show up in my bedroom at two o'clock in the morning.

All right, And so after that, which, by the way, I slept with the lights on for the next ten years after that, and the TV.

I'm not joking about that.

I believe it.

I believe it.

I didn't tell anybody, nobody, not not my closest friend, not my family, no, no, no, no.

I was I was freaked out about the experience, but I didn't have a way to explain it.

So what do I do?

You know?

And right after that happened another strange thing, like a month later.

I've never talked about this on the air.

I had two friends over at my condo.

This is in Sherman Oaks, and in the middle of the day and we left to go to lunch Chinese.

Well, we walked right up to Venture Boulevard.

We were coming back from lunch and I see this guy walking out of my condo.

And the kind of minium building that we had.

It was four condos on the first floor, four condos on the second floor.

That's it.

It wasn't like a hundred room building.

It was eight eight condos, three story parking on the first floor.

I lived on the second floor in the back.

But it wasn't a busy building.

There was nobody ever there.

There's only you know what I mean.

Okay, all right, So we're walking up the sidewalk and I see this guy walking out from my building across the street and I just noticed him.

Now what was he wearing and this and that?

He looked burglarish to me.

He looked, I don't know, dressed dark.

You know, there's something weird about him.

Anyway, we don't pay him any attention.

I just noticed him.

But we walk into my building.

Go back, we're walking in.

My apartment was broken into.

Yeah, yeah, the whole front thing was cracked open, door was open, and we walked in and I went, holy crap, and we called the police.

Police showed up and I'm and nothing was taken.

You know, I have things.

I have nice things, guitars, big watch collection, you know, I had stuff.

Nothing, nothing was taken.

It was weird.

The whole thing just was unsettling to me.

Got the police report, owner of the building came by and repaired him in insurance and put in a steel door frame and all of that, which I felt better about.

But the timing was weird.

Yeah, seeing that guy all dressed up in black.

I was, Yeah, that was That was a very strange period for me.

That was a very strange period.

I can imagine.

I can imagine.

You know, Well, it's only because we're all out there, like you said, searching for answers.

We have our deeply personal reasons for doing this.

I have mine, but these are things that we keep to ourselves, you know, we just don't talk about it.

And going having Opus and other groups like that, and the stuff that you did with move on To as well.

When that started was there was no place for anybody to go.

And I really wanted people to hear that on this show, that there were places, there are people out there to go and talk to.

And I think that's the most important part of Opus and groups like yours.

Absolutely, thank you, Jimmy, and appreciate you having me on to talk about this because there's a definite need for this kind of assistance for people that are having these kind of experiences because you know, you generally speaking, you can't go to your local psychologist or psychiatrists and start talking to them about this because they start feeding you.

If you're a psychiatrist, what's your favorite drug?

You know, they want to start giving you drugs to suppress all of this.

But it's happening.

It's a real factor that needs to be dealt with in a different way.

And so we do have therapists and hypnotherapists that are familiar with the topic that people can go to and they will listen and not be judgmental, uh and and help you as best they can.

But yeah, so this is this is a very important situation for people, and we hopefully can help people in some way, shape or form get them through this so that they can deal with life in a normal way.

Our guest tonight, the one and know only Les Fellas, is with us.

We're talking about abductions.

We just spent the first half of the show also talking about three I at list in contact everybody, stay right there.

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All right, welcome back, Fade to Black.

I am your host swimming Search tonight.

Lesvillez is with us talking about et abductions.

Tonight we jumped into three I atlas, which everybody is interested in these days, the media, al those three letter agencies and of course the public.

It's very interesting what's going on right now to have three objects in the night sky at the same time.

It's absolutely incredible.

And our guest tonight is Les fell As.

He's right there.

Less Camille.

Camille just jumped into the chat.

Oh hi, Camille.

You know what I'm gonna say this.

I've known Camille for a long time, and she's been to my house and things like that.

I've known it for a long time.

She is about as cool as it gets.

She's the cool side of the pillow.

Less, did you freeze?

Yes, No, I don't think so.

I just said Camille is cool.

Yeah, definitely.

Yeah.

I've interviewed her.

I've interviewed her.

Yeah, she's she's amazing.

She's you know she here's the other part.

She's a professional.

She is uh an actor.

We don't say actress.

Yeah, we say actor these days.

You don't get on a plane and say stewardess.

Do you No?

But anyway, she's just a professional and a talent, but she's an experiencer.

Here's the other part, going back to I want to talk about opus.

There was a funny scene in People of Earth that got it.

So it just makes me wonder if those writers infiltrated our community, I swear to you, because they just got so much right.

And one of them was so they got a new person in the group, right, and who introduced themselves as an abductee, and everybody goes, who whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

We're experiencers.

We don't use the word abduct tee anymore.

And it was just so funny.

I was like, well that was spot on, you know, But it's it's really true.

Experiencers with with your group.

Are there still mentions of the classic form of abduction or are they more like mine which may be interdimensional?

No.

I think the the initial stage of these experiences is an abduction, there's no way around it.

However, as these things continue, they become more of an experience, okay, and thus the terminology experiencer or contact ee, if you will.

So we have abductee experiencer contact E.

But certainly abductee has certainly fallen out of favor of late, and we have more people talking about their experiences, and certainly the beginning phase is still for most people, almost without exception, an abduction.

I mean, they didn't think about this whole topic at all most cases, and all of a sudden they're yanked out of their environment wherever it might be, and taken on board a craft in most cases, examined and then put back, sometimes with their clothes that they had before they were abducted, or without it, or with somebody else's.

There's so many variations to when you really get down to the nuts and bolts of the whole experience.

They and very substantially, but the basic parts of the abduction experience or experience for these people is pretty similar.

What about somebody that feels not knowing that something occurred, or maybe it's missing time or whatever it may be.

You have a fork in the road, there a decision to make.

You can go and try to find out what happened or not and just leave it alone.

I was very okay with not finding out Okay, I really was was like, whatever happened, I'm going to leave it right there.

What do you what kind of advice do you give to someone that's at that fork in the road.

Yeah, that's a good question, Jimmy.

We have that all the time where people ask us, Okay, I've been thinking about hypnosis and I'd like to maybe understand what happened to this certain period of time which I can't remember anything about.

And so what we often tell people is the fact that you need to be very sure because once the toothpaste is out of the tube, it's hard to put it back in, so you may not want to understand what happened.

So you have to be very very sure.

So we always caution people that they need to be of a certain mind that you're willing to go down that road and find out whatever it is down there, because it could be dramatic, it could be scary, it could be a lot of different things.

But we certainly don't want them to just willy nilly, just sign up and then find out something that will make them even in worse shape than they were before they started the process.

Yeah, it's always been a concern of mine in doing a show like this because I know how fragile I felt, and I don't I didn't want to be tipped either way.

I had so many different therapists approached me when I told my story on the air many times about what happened in nineteen ninety five with this thing that was in my room.

Okay, Jimmy, you need to be regressed.

No I don't, no, no, no.

The way that it happened and the way that it went down, I need to leave it right there.

I'm not interested in anything else that is in or around it.

I don't want to know.

But Jimmy, no, no, you're not hearing me.

And if I do any other sessions in the future, by the way, I've only done one and it was exhausting to me.

I mean, I was just I could not imagine doing that a couple times a year, you know.

But anyway, now that I've had the experience of doing a session, I don't know if I want to go back and investigate other things.

And in my past I.

Agree with you.

I agree with you because I mean people have asked me, he said, Okay, now that you've had multiple past lives, do you want to now go back and look at your situation with regard to may possibly ET contact NHI contact, And no, I'm perfectly fine not understanding anymore about that situation.

But here's here's a maybe it's it's not a philosophy, but a uh something that to think about is the fact that I believe, Okay, this is a theory.

That's what I was going for, A theory that we've all had an experience, whether we consciously remember it or not.

I'm firmly am starting to believe that fact that we've all had some kind of an experience like this, whether we consciously remember it or not, because of the things that have happened to me, but also talking to all these other people.

You know my book, you know, I wrote a book a couple of years ago called The Unknown Other and the the The thing about aliens and how they interact with the with the people in the physical and the psychological effects of all of that and the extent existential proposition of alien contact is where I was going with that.

So I really, I really really believe that in some way, shape or form, we've all had an experience.

And I and I think that a lot of us can't remember those things.

Maybe and that's a good thing.

Maybe that's a very good thing that we don't remember those kind of things.

I I I think dreams, okay, I think when we dream, we are in another reality, just not this one, and we are accessing that where time does it make any sense in a dream?

You know, the and you wake up and you're just like, how did I just dream a week's worth of stuff in six hours?

Right?

It doesn't make sense?

But yet it happens.

And is that evidence of just another reality?

And we access that that is just as real as this one.

It's just that our eyes are open.

I'm convinced of that.

I don't know if you have done DMT.

It's none of my business, but I have.

I've done it twice.

And here's the crazy thing about it, and both it's just, you know, a five to ten minute thing.

Well one was a little longer.

But you're straight before and after?

Right?

What Straight's the wrong word?

But you're back in this reality like that, right?

Okay?

But it was real.

That was the crazy part if you okay, less, I know that you party at Woodstock, Okay, So here's the deal with that.

When you go and you do some kind of drugs and you hallucinate, you are or imagining things.

You're doing it in this reality.

You're you know, you're on your front or backyard, or you're at the car.

You are in that reality where you see something happen.

Okay, that's not the case of DMT.

You are you are someplace else.

It's not there's nothing that you can relate to.

This.

It's completely new, and it's it's strange and just it's just uh, the ability to access this.

And that's the fascinating part that there is another reality that's right here, another multiverse that is right here.

We just don't see it, right, That's that's that's crazy.

Yeah, yeah, it's it's a way of connecting with that other reality.

Whether it's your ayahuasca uh that you you would be taking, or d M T or any other lsd Uh.

These are kind of things that open up our senses in a way that we can't access normally.

Uh.

And uh, you know the Shamans, uh the Native American uh Indians uh have been able to tap into the these other realities.

They they they know they know that there is this other reality that exists, and uh uh sometimes uh Uh, we can do that without the use of hallucinogenics or with them, and uh, it's it's uh, it's remarkable that uh uh, this is a spirituality that exists that most people don't don't have the capability of doing, or or or even wanting to do it for that matter.

You know, they want to get up in the morning and have breakfast, go to work, come home at night, have a beer, watch TV, go to bed, do the same damn thing over and over and over again.

You and I are lucky that we have the capability of having conversations like this and you doing this kind of show and me doing what I do to to help people, because you are doing a great service, Jimmy, I mean, with your show and bring forward all these type kinds of topics.

So thank you very much for what you do.

Well.

I appreciate that.

The the for me, what's fascinating with it big is now I have a large body of work that you know, covers it a long time, and I'm able to see how I have changed.

That's the crazy part, because yes, I do what I do, and I do it every single night, every day of the week.

I you know, that's it.

Whether i'm doing this, or when I'm not doing this, I'm taping a TV show or I'm not doing a movie, or out at a conference seven days a week, four weeks a month, twelve months a year.

But I have changed, and anybody that would have it's going to college.

So I have been going to college for over a decade straight, learning, right, just learning, interviewing the best and the brightest and learning.

And I have definitely evolved.

I had a different way of looking at things that I assumed that's the world worked, and then doing this show as a service to others.

But what I've learned about the supernatural, the paranormal, et conspirat, whatever it may be.

Science supports all of the stuff that I'm questioning.

And that's the part.

You know, if science didn't support it, then we're nuts, right, We're just correct.

But science supports all of this, the multiverse and extra dimensions and faster than light and entanglement and all of these crazy things that we wondered about before.

Now science is saying no, you know, actually we're showing you that this is all real.

Here is the math, and this is why.

And that's the crazy part.

And that's how I have evolved.

I'm actually more sane now than I was fifteen years ago.

Very good, yeah, and I'm okay with it.

How did you last I've never asked you this before.

How did you get started?

Oh?

My goodness.

All right, Well, we have to go back to when I was eleven years old and I was living in Connecticut at the time, and it was coming into the house.

It was already dusk, and it was late October, and I looked to my right and here's this object over a tree line, maybe a thousand feet away, totally silent, totally silent, just moving slowly.

And at first it just scared the crap out of me, okay, because I've never seen anything like it.

It was self illuminated.

It was oval in shape, and no sound, no nothing.

It just kept moving slowly away, and I ran in a house and I tried to get my father to come out, and by the time my father came out, it was gone.

He says, Oh, it's probably just a beacon of light reflecting off a cloud.

And I didn't believe that.

I didn't leave that at all.

And so shortly thereafter, I went to the library and started picking up books on UFOs and back in those days, this is the late fifties.

Georgia Danski was the big writer back in those days, talking about his contact with the Venusians and his incredible photographs of the Venusian craft and everything.

I really got hooked on it.

And then I got older, kind of forgot about everything, you know, went off to college, got in the service, got married, did that whole nine yards.

And in nineteen eighty five I moved out to California and picked up the San Jose Mercury News one day and saw this article about Stanton Freeman come into San Jose City College to talk about UFOs and the government cover up, and I'm going, holy crap, I got to go see this guy.

That was like a switch was turned.

It was like, you know, I definitely had to go see him.

So I expected to see a handful of people there, and when I got there, the auditorium was packed.

There was like three hundred people there, and he gave one of his inimitable you know, lectures and showing all the redacted information that the CIA had done and everything.

And so I walked out of there and I said, oh my god, I got to get involved with this.

And lo and Beholds move On had a table in the foyer and they had a monthly journal that they produce, and so I started to get that.

And after a while that wasn't enough for me, and I found out that they had a field investigator training course that you can take to investigate cases.

So I did that.

I became an investigator, and all the cases, almost without exception, people were telling me that not only did they have a sighting, but they had contact with these non human intelligences.

In the first case, I said, oh, I don't know.

I was kind of a nuts and bolts kind of a guy, and so I was rather skeptical about the first case.

But then the second case, the third case, they were all telling me the same thing.

So the next thing I know, a person asked me, said, do you know of other people that are having similar experiences?

And I said, yes, I do.

I start to facilitate a support group in my office in San Jose, and that's when things got really interesting, and there's some incredible stories that came out of there.

I'll tell you one quick one, how much time we got I guess we've.

Got we have all life for you less?

All right?

All right?

Man?

So this couple, they were amateur pilots, and they had gone have a little picnic, I guess in a state park north of Santa Cruz, Boutana State Park, and they were coming out of the park at dusk, and this park is basically on the side of it a pretty steep area, and they noticed this light over the ocean, and it caught their attention, and it started to get bigger and bigger and bigger, until literally it was over their head and it was a triangular craft.

And this thing was making no sound.

It was about the size of a small Leer jet and it went slowly into a canyon behind where they were standing, and they noticed this other light over the ocean in the same scenario.

This thing got bigger and bigger, and it literally was over their head once again.

And the first one they felt they were looking at it.

The second one they felt it was looking at them, and they became frightened and moved up underneath this big pine tree, and I went up there with them to investigate this particular case.

At that point, they felt like they were on remote control.

They felt like they were floating, and they started to go down this hill.

And this hill is even during the day it's dark because it's highly wooded and it's a lot of rocks and things like that, and they felt that they just kind of glided along that path down to where their car was, and that's the last thing they remember.

For three hours.

They showed up at a restaurant, okay, which is only like ten minutes away, so it wouldn't take them three hours to get there.

And they don't recollect how they got there.

So we had many discussions about that.

They didn't want to get have hypno therapy done on them.

Okay, So this happens probably twenty five thirty years ago.

I got a call from them about six months ago.

Oh really, Scott, Yeah, they called me up.

They said, we need to talk.

We need to talk to you.

I said, okay, oh, I need to I need to back up just a little bit.

They did come to one of our support group meetings.

Uh after this happened.

Okay, they had both developed a rash on their bodies and they had gone to their doctors and doctors couldn't figure out what it was.

It wasn't there's a lot of poison oak and poison ivy up in that area, but it wasn't that, and neither doctor hers or his could understand or could figure out what it was.

They didn't understand what it was.

So they took a picture of this rash and they showed it to the people in our in our support group, and almost without exception, each one of those people had a very similar rash.

One of the people in our group said, I think I know what that's from, and so he said, okay, can you please tell us and said, yeah, it's a reaction to the fluid that they dip you and when they bring you on board the craft to sanitize you.

M I thought you were going to say it was the last supper or something, but see, this is but this is what you know.

You need to be careful about what you want to know, right, what is it that you want to find out?

Because of things like this, Suddenly a door opens that you were just not expecting.

So they did not remember that, Okay, okay until, like I said, about six months ago, I got to think I lost you.

Yeah, we're back, okay.

So the reason why they called is that she started to remember the fact that she was dipped in this fluid.

It came to her without hypnosis it finally consciously it came up, it bubbled up in her.

And I mean that's the kind of case that just blows your mind, the fact that, yeah, you have this experience and then you have this reality, this recognition that yes, something did happen like that, which I've never heard before from anyone, that they were dipped in a fluid to sanitize you.

That's a first for me.

Yeah, that's interesting.

Okay, So six months ago they called.

You, yeah, yeah, and then she remembered the fact and that's why they called because she wanted to tell me that she remembered the fact that she was dipped in this fluid.

So, I mean, those are the kind of things that are just incredible to me that they would do something like that to begin with.

But it was the cause of that rash that they.

Had when and I always think about it's a bad example, but no, it is a good example.

The movie Communion, Right, so when Bud has got his experience or group in New York, you know, getting or was it or right, the experience or group?

Yeah, and they're they're at the apartment and doing that and how not only I don't want to say arguments, but I don't think it's one race of et visiting this planet.

I think it's thousands.

I don't think it's fifty seventy.

I think it's thousands, thousens of thousands.

And everybody's experiences are just different.

Why does everybody's experience have to be exactly the same?

And that is something that critics want to you know, everybody's got these crazy Well why would you think everybody's experience would be the same.

Yeah.

One of the things that we just recently finished the first phase of the Omega four study, which we're going to probably publish here shortly, is the fact that the majority of experiencers are dealing with either the short grades or the tall grays.

Okay that that seems to be the number one, but the other other groups are are the interdimensionals of the energy beings and poltergeist activity is very prevalent, and you know, you talk about the orbs that are been so prevalent of late, So there's all kinds of and I agree with you one hundred percent that we're not dealing with one race.

We're dealing with multiple things, whether they're interdimensional, time travelers, extraterrestrial.

So you going to have a plethora of entities that people are dealing with, and they are.

They're dealing with multiple types of things, whether they're Nordics, whether they're Reptilian, whether they're praying mantis types.

It's all over the place.

But it seems like there's a conglomeration of four or five major groups that seem to be interacting with us predominantly.

And of course there's all kinds.

There's the blues, there's the whites.

I mean, whatever you can possibly think of is happening.

Mine that I've seen.

I don't want to come across as some crazy you know that I've had this crazy amount of experiences and things.

I don't want to come off that way, But I have seen some stuff.

And when people ask me if I'm an experiencer, if I've made contact, I don't want to cross that line because I'm not.

I don't have any proof.

I only have you know, the experience itself.

I don't.

I don't.

I don't know what it was.

But the beings that I saw during the session, are you ready less?

They were black?

They were black black, not blue, not white, not gray, not this, not green but translucent energy.

Noop, they were black, black, and I don't know if they had clothes on, you know, But what what what I saw, And I've said this publicly, so I'm not, you know, doing some big reveal, But what what I saw very tall, thin like in shape, thin, not not not like stick figures, but but but tall, thin.

But they were fuzzy, not furry, not not not fuzzy like like a Teddy bear, fuzzy on the outside, like jittery, you know, like out of focus or something very very hard to to describe.

But they looked they looked like, I don't know, man, it kind of looked like hairy.

I don't know, I don't know.

Just so anyway, but the heads were oval, very tall, oval, eyes, mouth, nose, ears that I could see.

My memory of it was uh, not fright.

I was totally cool with it.

It was weird.

I did not go oh shit, I didn't do any of that.

I just you know, and it was like I knew who they were.

Yeah, it was weird, man, Like I was hanging out with some friends and yeah I was trippy.

And so I scanned the room and the reason why I know the facial features the two dudes.

Everybody was sitting but the two There were two in the middle of the room that were standing talking to each other.

They were facing each other.

One guy had his back to me and the other guy was facing but they were they were together.

How do I hear?

Let me straighten out the camera.

They were like this to me right there slightly, but they were talking to each other, and they had something in their hands, you know, they were like pointing at something, and so that's what was going on.

Anyway.

The guy with his back to me, he goes like this, this is what he does.

He goes just like that, just like that, just like that.

It was and I was totally cool.

Yeah, yeah, he acknowledged you.

He acknowledged you.

Yeah, okay, he.

Didn't give me.

It was one of those things.

If you walked in to an office that you worked at, right and something in the middle of the room just turns and sees you and gives you one of those and then goes back to the conversation.

You're not going to freak out.

And neither did I.

It was like that.

It was very It was it was I did not I did not trip anyway.

So when he turned his head, I could see, you know, I could see his and the guy that was facing him, I could see and so the face was black, but I could see, man, I don't want to my memory says that they had like blue eyes blue.

That's that's what I feel.

But I could see the red when they talked.

I could see like the inside of the you know, it was weird.

I don't know if I saw teeth, but everything just it seemed like it was all quick.

Nothing took me by surprise.

So I thought that all the facold features were there, nose, you know, it wasn't like I went, oh, whoa, whoa, dude, you look strange.

I didn't feel that.

I didn't.

I didn't get any of that and then the other and I want to throw this.

I'm giving you this information because I want to know if you heard anything like this in your in your groups.

I heard this.

Hold on, I'm pointing.

I heard this guy here that was sitting right.

He's like hun and he's like talking into something like a radio a microphone.

I'm saying these things because I don't I don't have another way to kind of put it.

But he's having a conversation, and the conversation was like Californian street talk.

Well, no, it wasn't like, hey, dude, No, it wasn't like that, but but it serves up as seal beach dude.

You know, it wasn't.

I don't mean it like that, but what I do mean it was very natural without an accent and so, but it was in English, and I heard him say something like, hey man, hey, what's going on?

Yeah, we're here.

Everything cool, Everything is cool.

How you doing?

We're cool?

Did you did you see their mouths moving?

He was, he was leaning over.

I was, I was, I was if it was only five seconds less, you know, So I just kind of stand the room.

But I heard him talking.

And as I looked at these guys over here that were I could see them side view.

I could still hear this guy talking over here, and I scanned, you know, I just kind of looked at the whole room and kind of gave him one of these and then they turned around and say goodbye, and I was gone.

But during that scan of the room is when I heard this.

That was the only noise in the room was this guy talking, and it was like, hey man, how you doing.

We're cool?

Everything good with you?

Yeah, we're good.

Good.

Good to see.

It's good to see you too, all right, cool boom, I was gone.

But I heard that it was like a very very like two friends they knew who each other were.

Now, wasn't talking to twenty nine Palms Marines.

I don't know, you know, I don't know who he was talking to, but it seemed like he was talking to somebody on the ground.

You know, I don't know anything is fact.

I'm just it was very it was very unoffensive.

Well one, you know, you've talked about the fact that anybody else has had similar situations.

Well, yeah, there's been a number of cases where people have described these entities as being dark.

Okay, shadow people very much, shadow people.

Not often they don't describe the eyes as you have.

But I've had cases where people talk about these entities matter of fact.

One of the people in my book of the Unknown Other and the Existential Propersition of Alien Contact, her name is Stacy.

She was a nurse practitioner and she happened to be telepathic, clairvoyant, a channeler, and so she was working in this critical care area and this person walked in, six foot tall male, and she telepathically heard him say I'm here for your help, and she said, well, you know logically, yes, I'm a nurse, I'm here, I'm going here to help people and things like that, but she was able to see that this person wasn't who she was seeing on the outside.

There was another person in this person that turned out to be a lot smaller than this guy.

Happened to be like six foot tall.

She said, it was like five foot tall.

It was more bird like.

It had feathers on the side of its head, and it had incredibly blue eyes sunken in with a facial area over here that was projecting.

The eyebrow area was projecting, and like a beak, like a beak, and and and all he wanted for her to do was to hold his hand, and and and and then she said, well, okay, I'm going to go get the doctor.

The doctor comes in, it's in there for a few moments, goes out of the room, and she says, so, what's going on.

He said that, The guy said he's fine, and he left.

You mean he didn't prescribe anything, nothing.

No.

She had two other people show up that that same day with the same kind of features.

She couldn't tell if they were male or female, but she kind of felt that they were more male than female, but presented outwardly a certain look more natural to you and I.

But she was able to see because of her exception or capability to perceive this kind of thing.

These were entities that were coming to her for assistance, and all she needed to do was to touch them.

Hmm.

I mean, they talk about unincredible stories.

But the blue eyes.

That's what triggered me on talking to talking to you about this particular case.

Was she said they were vividly blue eyes.

Yeah.

I've had a few people, more than a few, suggest to me that I was seeing, you know, some kind of shadow entity.

No, no, no, no, no, it was definitely physical.

It was It was nothing.

It It wasn't like everybody was lit up, you know, and it was all vivid.

It wasn't like that.

The room was dark, but not black dark.

I don't mean it like that.

I'm just saying, isn't like all lit up.

And I'm sure I looked just as dark to them too as well, if you know what I mean.

Because the room was a lit up, but they were definitely solid.

There was nothing.

No, this was I maybe they had black clothes on, I don't know, but the room was dark.

But definitely the heads, the shoulder, the hands.

You know, I saw them holding right, So this is all black, you know, this is just like not not dark black like vanta black.

Yeah.

Crazy, it was crazy, but yet all of these details were here.

You know, I can't I could see it.

Yeah, it was greaty oval again like an egg shaped like an egg.

The eyes the eyes were like normal eyes.

Like normal normal eyes.

Yeah yeah, yeah, interesting, okay, yeah yeah yeah and normally I mean, I rem remember.

I remember slender Man.

I remember slender Man.

Uh, and what was going on with that?

I was listening to Creepy Pasta and I was listening to all the slender Man stories that I could, and I was watching the slender Man videos.

Slender Man scared the crap out of me, and I loved getting scared.

We all do.

Right.

This wasn't that I didn't at all trip at trip like, No, it was.

It was very strange.

And here's the other part about it.

I would do it again, right, I'm okay with that.

You mentioned that earlier, right, I have the experience continued.

Maybe it has, I don't know, but there was something familiar to me and something familiar to them.

There was no freaking out.

There was no freaking out.

It stopped short of yo, church, what's up?

It stopped short of that.

You know, it was like that.

It was it was, yeah, it was, it was.

It was weird.

It was very and had I here's the other thing.

Last, If I hadn't have done the session, I would have never had this exposed to me.

I would have never known about it.

Yeah.

Yeah, interesting, isn't it?

Isn't it interesting?

I mean how you can open up certain parts of your mind in certain ways that it would never be able to do otherwise.

And then it comes forward and it's like, holy mackerel, what the hell just happened?

And this is, like I say, another reality that we just do not understand.

That is here.

It's been with us forever, forever, since we've been.

You know, what's you know?

You're a professional.

You got a professional background.

I am too, and I live a very normal exist, well as normal as anybody could be that does what I do for a job.

But realistically speaking, man, I do my own laundry, I shop, I go out, I hang out, I do my thing.

I just rode to the Kern River with twenty five other Harley riders and went in and had lunch and sat down with everybody and just you know, everything.

And then and then I'm talking about being on spaceships for my job, and it's just like so I can't express I'm just I'm just normal, you know what I mean.

I'm just normal.

I got this crazy.

Thing going on, but the rest of my life is absolutely normal, except for my art house.

My house is completely on it.

You know what I said to myself today last I swear to god, you know what I said.

I saw this light flash and it reflected off of some books that were on my coffee table, and I looked, and so I spun my leg around on the couch and I waved it in front of the window, trying to make.

The same thing right right, And it didn't.

And I spun around and I went back to what I was reading, and I said, Man, I'm tired of this shit.

I'm just tired.

Oh my god, I don't need to And you know, but other than that, I just looked just this normal existence.

Everything's normal, just as normal as anybody else.

Well, I think you know, you talk about poltergeist activity, you know, being living in a haunted house.

My brother and his wife had one hell of an experience.

They refurbished this seventeen hundred's house in Griswold, Connecticut, and one night she came home with bags of groceries in her hand, and there was a side room and there was a big wing back chair in the room and there was a TV in there, you know, normal stuff.

And so she came up to the door and yelled out to my brother and said, Mark, opened the door, my hands are full.

And he didn't move, and nothing happened.

And she yelled again and nothing happened.

So finally she got upset.

She put the groceries down, opened up the door, walked in, and she was going to give him hell.

And of course it wasn't him sitting in the chair.

It was this ghost sitting in the chair and scare the crap out of her.

But there was two ghosts that lived in the house.

There was a male and a female.

And every time the female would show up, you would smell jasmine.

And one night I had to sleep in the room where they used to hear footsteps in this room.

I swear I did not sleep very well that night, and I get my arms and my legs all up underneath the covers.

But it's real that stuff happens, and so if that kind of thing happens, okay, anything is possible.

That's right, that's exactly it.

I there is probably such a basic fundamental of the causality, some basic thing that ties all of this together, just some little you know, some little thing that we haven't quite figured out yet.

But when we do all of it right, ghosts, life after death, paranormal consciousness, this that alter but all of this et what you see in the sky things, it's cloaking, you know.

Those are the words that we use today because we don't have another way to describe it.

But what if it's just all the same thing, it's just something we haven't figured out.

It's all connected, It's all connected.

That's what I believe.

I believe it's all connected, that all these phenomena in some way, shape or form are connected, and we just it's part of a puzzle.

It's part of a big puzzle that we still don't understand yet.

But we're putting the pieces together slowly but surely.

And I think, you know, with our understanding of physics now that's coming along, whether it's quantum theory or string theory, or whatever theory you want to talk about.

It's starting to you know, congeal a little bit more than we've ever been before.

And so it's fascinating time to live.

I mean, we're living in an incredible time.

The other part of this, though, I had less.

I had less.

I had Lawrence Cross on the show last week and he said this, I'm in a paraphrase, but he goes, Jimmy, you know in the past you had things like ghost and lepards and trolls.

And I said, man, are you listening to what you're saying.

Just listen to what you are saying.

It's been around forever.

This isn't a modern phenomenon.

And you know, folklore or mythology or witness accounts and the way they described things in the past, they didn't have another So maybe ets were called lepre cons because we didn't have another word for it.

There are ghost stories from Greece, you know, in BC era, that are the exact same.

It's the movie Poltergeist but was written in three hundred BC, the same thing.

There's a there's an old it's a crazy story.

It's three hundred BC, and the story teller says this, So this is like a true account.

I bought a new house from my realtor.

And again this is pretty much how it's written, right, they had real estate agents when he bought a house.

Some things don't change.

Mortgage rates had gone down, and so he bought that house anyway, So he says, I bought it.

As soon as I move into the house, I heard chains rattling in the yard, and I went out, and so going on to describe this ghost and this entity that was hanging out at the house had turned out it was the previous owner.

And this is this is two thousand, three hundred years ago.

It's been going on forever.

Oh absolutely, And you know we've dealt with demonic possession of you know, we've had exorcisms that have been done there.

So there's good, there's evil there, all all the above.

I mean, it's happening.

And we've we've dealt with a lot of these types of things, uh that have come across our our our website and uh uh and we try to help these people as well.

But yeah, there's all kinds of aspects of this thing.

And that's what I say.

Number One thing are the grace Okay, that seems to be the top of the thing.

The second thing interdimensionals that seems to be very popular orbs okay, and poltergeist.

Poltergeist activity is very prevalent with all of these kinds of things as well.

Why we've got four minutes left?

Why?

Why why do abductions occur?

I think that this is something that has been with us forever.

Okay, it's a process.

It's a process that's going on.

It's a process.

It's a journey.

It's a spiritual journey that people are involved in, and it's a recognition that there is something beyond this reality, okay that interfaces with us.

And so yeah, sure are these entities coming here because they're in trouble and they need our DNA, they need our they need our blood, they need our sperm, our eggs, things of that nature.

Yeah, that's probably going on as well.

It's not one thing, it's multiple things.

And that's why it's so hard to just say it's this and nothing else.

It's multiple things that are going on at the same time.

You know, the hybrid process, where why are they doing that kind of thing?

Well, is it they want to integrate and basically take over all?

Right?

If they they're successful in hybridizing all of us.

Okay, you and I may be hybrids too, who knows.

And you know, there's there's a lot of theories about you know, when we were our genes were manipulated, our DNA was manipulated, if it was manipulated.

But Gary Nolan talks about the fact that, you know, geologists say our planet is four point five billion years old, but in order for us to be where we are, the planet should be nine billion years old.

And so there's all kinds of theories that are floating around.

That's saying, wait a minute, something happened to us as to and that's why we are where we are right now.

And it's this is where I go back to science.

Now, you say four and a half billion years, Okay, well, the planet has been habit for about two billion years, and you know, once the molten lava settled down and all that stuff, and then the atmosphere and things had to settle it.

Okay, But when you really look at this, Homo sapien sapien has only been here at most for two hundred thousand years, and two hundred thousand years ago we just appeared boop, no evolution, right, this perfect forehead, right, the physique, no hair, the layers of fat that we have under our skin.

Nothing matches the rest of the planet, nothing, nothing else in any other speech, the beauty our jalla, this thing all compare us to Neanderthal or chrow magnet.

That's two.

By the way, Jimmy, I'm must be more advanced to you because I have less hair.

You're smarter.

That means your brain, your brain is more active and the electromagnetic radiation dissolves the hair on your head.

Yeah.

Yeah, I have less brain activity, so therefore more hair.

But I'm being very serious.

Less we just appear.

Talk about no time for evolution, you know, the missing link.

There is no missing link.

We just appeared.

Well, when you look at Zachariah Sitchen's work and some of the research that has gone into that all points back to this same timetable of about two hundred thousand years ago.

Well, that explains a lot.

Science supports the WU in this case that there may have been some alien crisper snip snip action on our DNA two hundred thousand years ago, And I'm okay with that.

It answers the question, right, where's the missing link?

Well, there isn't one.

There was just a right.

I'm okay with.

That, sure, sure, absolutely absolutely, I agree.

I believe that there's been manipulation, there's no question about it.

Less, thank you so much, my friend.

Great to have you back on the show.

Where can everybody chase down your work and get a hold of opens.

Oh yeah, absolutely absolutely.

Just go to our website opusnetwork dot org.

It'll give you the whole rundown.

If you need some help, you can hit the support button there and we'll get back to you within seventy two hours.

We can put you into an online support group confidential online support group, or we can refer you to mental health practitioners or hypno therapist that that's what you're looking for.

And I got a book on Amazon called The Unknown Other and the Existential Proposition of Alien Contact, which talks about the physical psychology and a lot of other interesting stories from some of the people in the support group.

So I think you really enjoy it, And thank you, Jimmy.

I really appreciate being with you.

You're always a lot of fun.

And I love you man, and thank you for what you do.

Love you right back.

Less, thank you so much.

Just thank you from the community for all of your work over the years.

Man, We really appreciate it.

Thank you so much, Thank you, les Vellas everybody, and we do have Less's links below in the description, over on our website and throughout social media if you need to reach out, Opus is right there for you.

All Right, great conversation, Thank you so much, Less, And I want to remind everybody what I am doing tomorrow night, which is oh tomorrow night.

Trey Hudson is here and he's got a new documentary out.

It is called The Helm and the Lens.

Also, the documentary is now out for the Metal Project.

So tomorrow night we'll be talking about all of that much more with Trey Hudson.

Until then, I'm Hero's Jimmy Church, Go Beckley Teppy.

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I'm Hero's Jimmy Church Go Beckley, teppyt