[SPEAKER_03]: You got problems that you ought to be concerned with.

[SPEAKER_03]: You don't know how to put some blood to burn it Or what to do with it, or how to keep it.

[SPEAKER_03]: You're a freak with a dark shank, old secret.

[SPEAKER_03]: But you're not the only one.

[SPEAKER_03]: Picture me the fine and your fears with a blast of sun.

[SPEAKER_03]: Now your feeling has begun.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's back with what you've been with.

[SPEAKER_03]: Game S, done.

[SPEAKER_02]: Hello and welcome to Bad With Money, a show about finances and feelings where you don't talk down to you.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm your host Gabe S.

Dunn, and with me today, Katherine Kellogg, would you like to tell my audience who you are and what you do?

[SPEAKER_01]: Hi, everyone.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm Katherine Kellogg from Going Zero Waste.

[SPEAKER_01]: I run a lifestyle website all about sustainable living.

[SPEAKER_01]: I have an Instagram, my Britain three books, and I'm really passionate about helping people save money and reduce waste.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, so how did you come to this I'm so fascinated by this movement and like I found your content I really wanted to talk to you like how did you how did you figure this out and how did you come to this.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I kind of fell into it a little bit backwards.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I made you to musical theater.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was a professional actor doing musical theater.

[SPEAKER_01]: One thing about that is you don't really make a lot of money when you're a professional actor.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm wild.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I started making a lot of these changes for financial reasons.

[SPEAKER_01]: So obviously a lot cheaper to have a raise but water bottle than by a bunch of single-use plastic water bottles.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was, [SPEAKER_01]: cheaper to have reusable cloth towels to draw my dishes than paper towels was cheaper and more effective to make my own cleaning products and there were also some health things that was going that were going on with me as well really okay and so making my own cleaning products and just being a little bit more aware of the ingredients that I was using because a lot of traditional cleaning products trigger my migraines and [SPEAKER_01]: just being more conscious of what I was using and then when I moved to California, it kind of all clicked that all these changes I was making for my personal health as well as financially were actually just better for the planet and I got really interested in that because I didn't grow up in an area that was super eco friendly and I didn't even know what recycling was until I was in college.

[SPEAKER_02]: There were ingredients in the cleaning products that were triggering [SPEAKER_02]: Wow.

[SPEAKER_02]: And how did you figure that out?

[SPEAKER_01]: It was a pretty instant reaction.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was a pretty immediate reaction.

[SPEAKER_01]: Something that's really interesting.

[SPEAKER_01]: So in the US, companies aren't legally required to disclose the ingredients that are including products.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, and so I just have a lot of sensitivities and allergies, especially to synthetic fragrances and to different ingredients.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so the easiest way was just start making my own cleaning products and as I said, it saved me a ton of money and it's also so easy and simple and can be incredibly effective.

[SPEAKER_02]: Interesting.

[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so you're doing all of this and then how did you find a community around zero waste.

[SPEAKER_01]: So basically, I started writing about the environment.

[SPEAKER_01]: This is back in 2015.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I didn't grow up in a super eagle-friendly area.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I was learning so much and I love school.

[SPEAKER_01]: I love papers, I love writing, I love research.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so I kind of missed a learning environment.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so I just started almost assigning myself, personal research projects every week to write about on my blog.

[SPEAKER_01]: And [SPEAKER_01]: In California, it's not too hard to find a hippie, I gotta say.

[SPEAKER_01]: So a lot of people were interested in this.

[SPEAKER_01]: And San Francisco, I lived outside of San Francisco, and they have a zero waste school, and that was the first time I heard of the terms, zero waste.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it kind of was this beautiful, all-encompassing term, because I think when it comes to waste, personally, if we just look at what we throw away, I think that's a really narrow point of view, because we can have a waste of time.

[SPEAKER_01]: We can have a waste of money.

[SPEAKER_01]: We can have a waste of our own personal resources.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, how can we make sure that we're living the most fulfilling life and how are we spending our resources in a way that actually align with our values?

[SPEAKER_02]: So, can you explain it a little bit what zero waste is and what it looks like as, you know, community, I'm imagining like that there's a lot of community around your blog, there's Facebook groups, there's, you know, advice for each other, what it looks like now.

[SPEAKER_01]: When I started writing my blog, I found something called the Zero Waste Bloggers Network, which was like, teeny teeny tiny, I think it was the 50th member.

[SPEAKER_01]: So there weren't many people that were in it.

[SPEAKER_01]: But it was just this absolutely beautiful community.

[SPEAKER_01]: People who were just really excited about how we can use [SPEAKER_01]: choices in our day-to-day life to try and make a better impact.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it has grown exponentially.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it really culminated in 2019, right before COVID, when you saw a lot of things like the plastic bag bands, even rolled back in San Francisco.

[SPEAKER_01]: But there was just so many people who I think, [SPEAKER_01]: We're starting to realize how we can create a bigger impact outside of ourselves.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think something that's really beautiful is how it's grown because it started as such an individual thing, and then it became a little bit more of a systemic thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: And now it's not just, oh, how can I make my own personal change?

[SPEAKER_01]: But how can we create change in our communities?

[SPEAKER_01]: And how can we build a bigger and better impact that's going to be much longer lasting?

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it seems like it's twofold.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's saving money in some ways and also kind of coming up with ingenuity that doesn't have to do with ordering stuff off Amazon and then also it has an environmental aspect to it where you're concerned about what's going into landfills and things like that.

[SPEAKER_01]: One of the things that I really like is how it stretches your creativity and how it allows you to have the opportunity to solve a problem without two day shipping or one click by and oftentimes our solutions are so within our reach, but we have been come so conditioned because we are very, especially in the US, we are very conditioned shoppers, right, like we're very, very conditioned to buy a solution to our problem, which is [SPEAKER_01]: great because companies love vex and they get to sell a lot of stuff.

[SPEAKER_01]: So if you can use a moment to stretch your creativity.

[SPEAKER_01]: So back in 2017 or 18, I implemented something I called a 30 day buy ban.

[SPEAKER_01]: Goodbye, anything I want, non necessity.

[SPEAKER_01]: I can buy anything I want, but I have to wait 30 days.

[SPEAKER_01]: and giving myself that window allowed me the freedom to experiment and to play and to find a solution.

[SPEAKER_01]: Could I borrow it from a friend?

[SPEAKER_01]: Could I rent it from my library?

[SPEAKER_01]: You can rent tools for your library.

[SPEAKER_01]: You can rent so many things for your library.

[SPEAKER_01]: Could I come up with a better and different solution?

[SPEAKER_01]: And 90% of the time, I could.

[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't have to buy anything.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm very fascinated right now with the isolation that is prominent now in our society.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if it's just post COVID or if I seem like the meme from the Simpsons, or it's like man yells at Claude Man yells at Claude, but like I feel like it's like [SPEAKER_02]: we used to have community, we used to do things for each other, we used to feel like we could borrow things, the old adage of like borrowing sugar from your neighbor.

[SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, now it's sort of this, I feel like we've been sold this [SPEAKER_02]: dream of it's automated or you know your your wealthy or independent enough to do it yourself or things like that that I think is all sort of as you said benefits the companies and it's sort of this capitalistic thing and also this.

[SPEAKER_02]: idea that like you're so tired after work or you're so tired after your family, you know, taking care of your kids that you absolutely need to do it this way.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm I'm also very intrigued by how the erosion of community has created vacuums and these absolutely isolated units where everyone has to own everything and I think [SPEAKER_01]: And to start and form that.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I will say, I think that's one thing that theater does really, really beautifully and something that I still appreciate is the community aspect because you're all coming together to put something on and it takes tons of different skill sets and it takes all different people.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so.

[SPEAKER_01]: We're naturally predispositioned in that space to continue having community.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so I've managed to find a beautiful community.

[SPEAKER_01]: I recently moved to Maine.

[SPEAKER_01]: This is where my husband is from.

[SPEAKER_01]: I have a beautiful community here and we share and we swap and we borrow and we all can lean and rely on each other for so much.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I can't imagine how isolating it would be without them.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, that's really lovely.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, so I've seen a lot of buy nothing groups and it is interesting like there was a friend of a friend who I was following on social media like years ago and she was doing this thing where she was not buying any clothes for a year.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I don't really like to buy clothes, but she is not buying clothes for a year and then she was posting like all the different outfits that she was coming up with based on the stuff that she had and not and then, you know, not sort of being like, oh, I need this belt because it completes this thing.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was like, oh, let me see if I can put together this.

[SPEAKER_02]: shirt as a belt, or let me see if I can, you know, finagle, I'd never wear this.

[SPEAKER_02]: Let me see if I can wear this.

[SPEAKER_02]: And that was the first I had ever heard of, of buying nothing.

[SPEAKER_02]: I found that really inspirational, you know, I don't even really like buying clothes.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think there's an element of, you must be up on the latest trends.

[SPEAKER_02]: And not to dig at fashion, because I think it's a very interesting cycle, but that you have to buy the cheap version of it.

[SPEAKER_02]: that you have to it has to go into like landfills and you have to buy shin and you have to buy you know the cheap version of something and I always I always feel this like cycle of of poverty because you could buy the boots that will last longer but that costs you know $200 you don't have so you could buy the boots that are like 15 bucks and then just keep buying them [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, especially the plant-offs, the lessons with things like, you know, your phone.

[SPEAKER_01]: For instance, your phone, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Where things just stop working to kind of force you into a buying cycle.

[SPEAKER_01]: There was this really scary article that I read recently.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was talking about home modern homes on average.

[SPEAKER_01]: Have a lifespan of 30 years.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, oh, so coincidentally, the exact length of an average mortgage.

[SPEAKER_01]: Wild.

[SPEAKER_01]: Really?

[SPEAKER_01]: Wild.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know how much truth their stock is in.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm just saying, I saw it come up.

[SPEAKER_01]: I saw the article come across and I was like, [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think it's an element of wanting to save money to seem like you have money and then wanting to and then needing to buy certain necessities and having to get the cheap version of it.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, all having to get the cheaper, more synthetic, more like you said, planned obsolescence.

[SPEAKER_02]: thing, instead of the, I don't know, my mom was always like, you got to get the standard pieces, you got to get a black blazer, you know what I mean?

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, how do you feel about the rise of thrifting for all all economic classes?

[SPEAKER_02]: I see a lot of stuff where it's like we shouldn't have let rich people find out about thrifting.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I'm a huge fan of second hand and the fact that if you've ever seen the back of a thrift store, it's insane.

[SPEAKER_01]: It is insane.

[SPEAKER_01]: The amount, the sheer amount [SPEAKER_01]: Isn't what we buy.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's how much we buy full stop.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's not.

[SPEAKER_01]: because if people bought, when they actually truly needed something, there is no way you could prop up a fast-fashioned model.

[SPEAKER_01]: You would just simply have not have enough consumption to prop up a sheet or to prop up a Zara, because she is only profitable, because people are buying hundreds of dollars worth of clothes every single month.

[SPEAKER_01]: Believe there was a study that came out, and it was most she and shoppers are 35 year old women who make $76,000 a year, and they're buying more than $100 of clothes every single month.

[SPEAKER_01]: That is someone who can buy sustainable fashion and can slow their consumption.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: I wonder.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, as someone who doesn't really care about clothes, it is interesting to me because I think [SPEAKER_02]: I think to me, there's something interesting, fashion-wise about putting together what you have or finding something really interesting at a thrift store.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I don't know if that's interesting to most people, like they have to get, you know, work essentials or stuff like that.

[SPEAKER_02]: But one time I did buy from one of those stores and it fell apart after like two wares, but I do know it's easy to get into the cycle of needing especially for women needing new stuff, [SPEAKER_02]: all the time where like men can wear, why used to be a woman, men can wear the same stuff every single day, but God forbid you, you match, you like, you know, nice blouse or whatever.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think there's also such a push to be trendy and this kind of goes back to, so we were talking about earlier in terms of the erosion of community.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's also the erosion of personal style where we've just been absolutely watered down to what I believe is the most [SPEAKER_01]: And because you have to feel like you're on trend, so if you keep accelerating the trends, the trend cycle is accelerating so quickly that you don't want to feel out of styles who are constantly keeping up with the Jones.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's, of course, if you're trying to match your consumption as sustainability, you want to buy and support a sustainable brand which we all know are more expensive because they're doing things the right way.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then versus the fast fashion on the other end of it, [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you're never going to be able to keep up.

[SPEAKER_01]: Of course, it's going to be so much more expensive.

[SPEAKER_01]: But it's going to take some time and some self reflection and some self analysis on what actually matters to you and how you want to address and how you want to present yourself to the world.

[SPEAKER_01]: Because if you're constantly trying to just wear the latest trends, you see on TikTok and on TikTok shops, it's just [SPEAKER_01]: It's just completely eroding what is actually inside and what you want to project the world, I think.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes I see people wearing very basic outfits that I see all over TikTok, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Is this the TikTok outfit?

[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I'm talking about.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I'm talking about.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I see that person and I think, hmm, what is your personality?

[SPEAKER_01]: What is your personality?

[SPEAKER_01]: What's going on?

[SPEAKER_01]: How do you feel?

[SPEAKER_01]: Because right now, I just see something projected that someone told you to buy.

[SPEAKER_01]: Someone told you to buy this.

[SPEAKER_01]: Someone told you to run.

[SPEAKER_01]: Don't walk.

[SPEAKER_02]: I work at a store, like a pet store, the amount of people that I see wearing Aviator Nation.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then I went on and googled Aviator Nation why popular, because I don't understand, I know, I'm also autistic.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't understand why every person that comes into the store is wearing the same outfit.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I was trying to get to the root of like, where did this come from?

[SPEAKER_02]: Who wore it that everybody started wearing it?

[SPEAKER_02]: And I like really couldn't find anything.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it's deeply confusing to me how all of these people realize that they needed to wear the same sweatshirt with like a rainbow thing across it.

[SPEAKER_02]: First of all, I noticed patterns a lot.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I was like, guys, everyone that comes in here wears the same sweatshirt.

[SPEAKER_02]: And they were all like, my coworkers were like, oh, we never noticed.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then too, I'm like, do you guys not realize that you're wearing some sort of uniform like how did this happen?

[SPEAKER_02]: And I had a moment where I was like, [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, but that's exactly it.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's just stripping away everyone's personality because everyone is trying to be trending and trying to constantly keep up, which is great because it just keeps you full in a spending cycle.

[SPEAKER_01]: So how can you break the spending cycle?

[SPEAKER_01]: How can you embrace who you truly are?

[SPEAKER_01]: How can you represent yourself finding community and because the fact is, oh.

[SPEAKER_01]: I wrote this great thing piece that I really, really loved on sub-sac, and it was about kind of the erosion of community.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's our ski collection, isn't about skiing.

[SPEAKER_01]: The writing boots are about horses.

[SPEAKER_01]: The rap sweater isn't about ballet.

[SPEAKER_01]: You're simply trying to buy your way into community because that is easier than being an active participant.

[SPEAKER_01]: Because you have to be vulnerable and you have to show up to be participating in a community activity.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so a lot easier to just buy it.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and also, you know, it does take confidence to do to wear sort of risky stuff like not risky, but like I wear things I'm going through.

[SPEAKER_02]: Gucci sneakers and I bought like these slides from Versace just because like they that's what they did so I was like oh when you're dating someone you know, so I was like I'll do that too and then it's not relatable to anyone okay and then I [SPEAKER_02]: was not dating that person, came out of that fog.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I have all these things, and I've started now in the last, when I was a woman, I dressed very flamboyantly.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then when I transitioned, I was like, I don't want anyone to look at me.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I started wearing just like neutral everything, which was so not my personality, but I was like, don't perceive me.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then now I feel better about myself.

[SPEAKER_02]: And so I've started doing a thing where I'm like, if I put it on and I want to wear it, [SPEAKER_02]: I don't care if it matches the bottoms.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't care if it's, you know, like I'll go.

[SPEAKER_02]: I have like these loose pants and then this like long shirt and it doesn't abide by the fashion thing of tiny shirt, big pants or big pants, tiny, you know.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I want to put cowboy boots with this and I want to put a big jacket and I don't care and you know what people are gonna be like, oh, that's an out the certainly an outfit.

[SPEAKER_02]: But like I don't find like that's then that then I'll be the cookie outfit person.

[SPEAKER_01]: dressing should bring you joy.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it sounds like it's bringing you joy.

[SPEAKER_01]: And if it is, that's, it's served its purpose.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's mostly, I think, also a way for me to be like, say something.

[SPEAKER_02]: Go for it.

[SPEAKER_02]: Which I, when I first was transitioning, I didn't want, you know?

[SPEAKER_02]: I was like, I was like, don't, because also there's an element of, [SPEAKER_02]: wanting to be gendered correctly.

[SPEAKER_02]: So wearing these like neutrals that boys wear rather than even, you know, putting in an earring that I like that my grandma got me or whatever or as of heirloom, things like that.

[SPEAKER_02]: And so I wasn't using the stuff that I had, so I had to like change my whole wardrobe.

[SPEAKER_02]: But now looking now looking at it, I'm like, I wish I kept that stuff, because it doesn't matter to me anymore.

[SPEAKER_02]: And [SPEAKER_02]: I did a thing initially and I think more people should do this and it was lovely when my friends volunteered when I was first trying to replace my wardrobe is we did like a clothing swap.

[SPEAKER_02]: Everyone got together put all their clothes and then you just kind of went through it and took other people's clothes.

[SPEAKER_02]: There's nothing better than other people's clothes.

[SPEAKER_02]: I got all of my men's clothes for my friend Leeland.

[SPEAKER_02]: I traded clothes with a friend of I knew was trans feminine.

[SPEAKER_02]: I went over there because she had had a bad date.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I went over there to talk about it.

[SPEAKER_02]: And she was wearing one of my jumpsuits.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I couldn't help myself.

[SPEAKER_02]: I was like, oh my god, that's mine.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was custom.

[SPEAKER_04]: Oh wow.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, wow, and it felt nice to see it on someone else.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think that that is what you're talking about with community, but I felt very loved and taken care of and rallied around when my friends were like, here come, come, I have all these clothes I was going to give to goodwill, you know, I'm a cis guy come grab whatever you want.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think that's beautiful.

[SPEAKER_01]: I absolutely think we need to have more clothing swabs.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's nice, it's like, when I was a girl, my other friend, she has, she has a lot of money and I would, I used to go to her house and she would have like beautiful designer stuff that she was like, I'm never going to wear this and I was like, young and I felt like I was like, well, I don't want this to go to waste and also it clearly is expensive.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I was like, oh, it doesn't matter to you, but it matters to me, so I will be taking this.

[SPEAKER_02]: And like we should offer that more like we should have you know there's all this stuff that I'm looking at that I have to give that I'm like maybe I'll just give it to goodwill and my friend came over and he was like he loves to tie die and he was like well let me have these because like if you're bored of them I'll tie die them they'll be different shirts.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm really excited.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I have a few pieces that I haven't been wearing because just color wise.

[SPEAKER_01]: I bought this really pale baby blue sweatset.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it's just too pale.

[SPEAKER_01]: It looks dirty.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I just not really wearing it because it feels, it doesn't feel nice.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then I was thinking, I can just dye this.

[SPEAKER_01]: So my girlfriends and I were gonna get together and we're gonna have a tie dye or just a dyeing party this summer when I get to a little bit warmer.

[SPEAKER_01]: And we're going to take the pieces that we haven't been wearing for whatever reason and we're going to die them and it's going to completely transform them and I was thinking while I really wish I had a navy blue sweat suit and then I was just die your pale blue one darker right you will have one and you don't have to buy anything.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, big time or I I take sometimes shirts that I don't really wear and I'll do the thing where you mean it's so like color war 2005, but I do the thing where you cut down the side and then you tie it so it has like fringe.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it's like a different shirt, you know, and I think I think sometimes we're programmed to get bored of things, not just planned obsolescence, but like you get bored of stuff or you're like, oh, I wear this all the time.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't really want to wear this anymore, but it or I never wear this so I should get rid of it, but if you never wear it like look at why and see if maybe there's a way to fix it so that you do wear it.

[SPEAKER_01]: reoccurring in common themes.

[SPEAKER_01]: So something I realized was I love looking at hot pink or lipstick pink.

[SPEAKER_01]: I love that color.

[SPEAKER_01]: I know that color looks good on me, but I just am never really drawn to wearing it because it just doesn't.

[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't suit my soul.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so it's one of those things where I love it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I have bought so many pieces.

[SPEAKER_01]: I bought about four or five pieces and I just don't reach for them.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I have to tell myself quit.

[SPEAKER_01]: I know you like to look at it.

[SPEAKER_01]: You like to look at it, but you don't like to actually wear it.

[SPEAKER_01]: So stop buying it.

[SPEAKER_01]: And taking notes of why, and getting down to the root cause of why you don't like something.

[SPEAKER_01]: Something I realized I don't really like a super wide neck.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't really like a really wide neckline.

[SPEAKER_01]: So probably shouldn't buy things that have that in paying more attention to this style of necklines I tend to lean more towards.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, just being shopping smarter.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think like I just have really loved the ways in which male friends of mine have just brought me things that they don't they're not going to wear like they get something and it's like okay the neck is to what why or the colors too much it's interesting because I have a bunch of weird shirts like from travels from like different cities.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it's like kind of fun to wear a shirt from a coffee shop you've never been to or like a museum you've never been to like that's kind of one of the funny things about thrifting.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I think I found that it's nice to give it a second life where people wear it because they they like that they've never been there or they like that it's kind of like a quirky design that I bought like on the road.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's really fun.

[SPEAKER_02]: I also gave, I got engaged and unengaged.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I was wearing a certain shirt when I got engaged.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I hadn't put it on since.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I, there was a girl that I was dating.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, do you want my cursed engagement shirt?

[SPEAKER_02]: And she was like, yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: because I needed to get it out of my house and also because now it's to her it's like a funny like it felt like really nice to be like my this this girl has my who I like a lot we're not I don't know for dating but so she she has that shirt which I think is like a funny thing because it like means something and I would mean I could I couldn't bring myself to like put it in a landfill [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, I think that's great and something I also like to do is I also when I do go through what I have, I create a box of things that I but really love that they've been not living right now and then I put them away.

[SPEAKER_01]: I've got a trunk in my office where I keep everything and then a year later I can open up the trunk and everything fills new again.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it's kind of a way to achieve novelty without having to buy anything.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's a way from close.

[SPEAKER_02]: Let's talk about the cleaning products.

[SPEAKER_02]: How do you make your own cleaning products?

[SPEAKER_01]: So I keep about, I think about seven ingredients on hand, usually, I mean, it's very simple, baking soda, vinegar, lemons, water, hydrogen peroxide, soap, and I think there's one other thing that I might be missing.

[SPEAKER_01]: But basically, you can create, almost anything you need with all of that.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I have a bunch of recipes in my first book, and then I also have a bunch of recipes on my Instagram and on my blog.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's all very, very simple in terms of, [SPEAKER_01]: You know, an all-purpose cleaner and vinegar and water and soap and water.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, really, you can clean most of me thing very well.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, the last thing was alcohol because alcohol is a disinfectant.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I support alcohol, which is used as a disinfectant.

[SPEAKER_01]: So that way, you can keep everything really, really clean.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it's, I think it's much more eco-friendly.

[SPEAKER_01]: But of course, there are like some eco-friendly cleaning companies that are doing really, really great things to if you don't want to make your own.

[SPEAKER_01]: I just like the convenience of making my own.

[SPEAKER_02]: You, it's interesting because I have, I'm thinking of a friend of mine that has OCD and she will never buy thrifted stuff because even if she washes it, she thinks it's bad or she will never, I feel like she's not a person who will buy this stuff, but also she's wealthy, so maybe she just buys the nicer version.

[SPEAKER_01]: Now that I'm thinking of it, there's a notion that buying new means clean and I don't necessarily think that's true because people in dressing rooms try things on, where houses are really dirty.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, even if you are buying new clothes, you should still [SPEAKER_01]: Watch that.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure she does.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's a demo.

[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, yeah, for sure for sure.

[SPEAKER_01]: But once again, I think it's more about the level of consumption, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: So even if you are buying new, which is totally fine, because like that is something obviously that is is mental for her and we want to support her.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's how she's consuming she's buying one pair of jeans a year because she needs a pair of new jeans cool nothing wrong with that.

[SPEAKER_01]: But if she's buying 18 pairs of jeans every single month, then that's about focusing on how much you're actually consuming sometimes.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't even know how I would wear 18 pairs of jeans.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's why.

[SPEAKER_01]: I know, but you see people, I feel like I see these reels and these TikToks all the time, so people being like 18 dresses for weddings this summer.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, why do you need 18 dresses for a wedding this summer?

[SPEAKER_01]: I used to do rent the runway, which is great.

[SPEAKER_02]: And people also, you can get so many, I were like a Marquesa dress to a wedding that was like, I could never buy that.

[SPEAKER_02]: And like you can get close sent to you like from every day stuff.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's not just dresses, which is what went the one way started as sure there are other things, not just rent the runway, but other companies, I don't know what they are.

[SPEAKER_02]: But like, I think, yeah, I think there is, you mentioned influencers.

[SPEAKER_02]: Can you talk about the, [SPEAKER_02]: It's funny because there's two kinds, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: There's the influencers that are like 18 dresses by these shoes, by this trend.

[SPEAKER_02]: I definitely I saw spring breakers and I bought the sneakers that Selena Gomez wears in those and that and then I never wore them really.

[SPEAKER_02]: So there's like, but now the influences, I feel like more on the internet than me going to see spring breakers and wanting to get the clothes from it.

[SPEAKER_02]: There are other side of it is like these, not even Tried right wives, but like these sustainable influencers.

[SPEAKER_02]: You know, can you talk about the impact of each of those?

[SPEAKER_02]: And if these sustainable influencers are selling something unreachable as well?

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I mean, I'm a sustainable influencer.

[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, but like I'm I'm talking about kind of the more I guess yeah I guess you those people are actually do like they're actually creating something more useful than like someone who's like 18 dresses for all the weddings you're going to.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think it really boils down to being careful and mindful over the content you consume.

[SPEAKER_01]: And you have to remember that so much of this is people's jobs, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Their job and mean some influencers their job is trying to sell you 18 dresses, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: That's how they're making their money.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so you need to just make sure that you're feeling more aware that so much of what you're watching is a commercial.

[SPEAKER_01]: And the problem is especially on TikTok, I think, because it's a very, it feels, feels very peer to peer.

[SPEAKER_01]: So you're watching someone and you're thinking, oh, this is someone like me.

[SPEAKER_01]: Why don't I have XYZ?

[SPEAKER_01]: Why doesn't my kitchen look like that?

[SPEAKER_01]: Why doesn't my closet look like that?

[SPEAKER_01]: And you have to be able to separate the fact that this is a job and this is entertainment, but they're blurring those lines so much to try and get you to consume.

[SPEAKER_01]: So you just have to be mindful of the content you're watching.

[SPEAKER_01]: And for instance, I'm a sustainability influencer.

[SPEAKER_01]: My main job is not to get you to buy things.

[SPEAKER_01]: and a lot of the partnerships I do are based on campaigns or ideas rather than things.

[SPEAKER_01]: Of course, I do promote things.

[SPEAKER_01]: I own a company that sells period underwear and I have my so I even have products.

[SPEAKER_01]: But how I go about and promoting them is very different and language is something else you have to watch out for.

[SPEAKER_01]: Things like the run don't walk.

[SPEAKER_01]: Things you must buy.

[SPEAKER_01]: Things you have to throw out because they're no longer in style and it's like really triggering language that creates an emotion and I have this great YouTube video where I talk about all of the triggers of buying and how you can actually spot them.

[SPEAKER_01]: And once I think you're aware of what those triggers are, you're able to better bolster yourself against it and to protect yourself.

[SPEAKER_02]: I love the waiting 30 days.

[SPEAKER_02]: Did you see a TikTok?

[SPEAKER_02]: It's immediate.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then you're like, oh, you should get this.

[SPEAKER_02]: But waiting 30 days, I think is a really good way to rethink if you actually need it.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's like a immediate dopamine versus like, okay, hold on.

[SPEAKER_01]: And trust me, TikTok will still be advertising at two 30 days later.

[SPEAKER_01]: Don't worry, it's not going anywhere.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's not even going anywhere.

[SPEAKER_01]: It might be something new, I don't know.

[SPEAKER_01]: They have tried to sell me mouth tape for the past eight months.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's not going to work, but they keep trying.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's not just fashion.

[SPEAKER_02]: What's with all the beauty stuff or new trends of what you have to do in order to not get wrinkles or things like that?

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh my god, have you seen the morning shut?

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, I mean, you should have a skincare routine like I get it, but it doesn't have a new thing isn't going to change anything.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I don't know, like my the old the old favorite still work as long as you're not using that, you know, [SPEAKER_02]: It's seen eyes, yeah, yeah, I had it, yeah, and we were, we didn't know that we were absolutely destroying the top layer of our skin.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I was like walnut and apricot scrub.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: So what do you do about that?

[SPEAKER_02]: Just remind me, like, what do you do about like a teenager who feels like they need to I had, you know what, there was someone on the show.

[SPEAKER_02]: who I spoke to and she said that she would rather buy all this stuff for her kids so that they don't get made fun of at school than, and that's so that they can be popular.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was very honest thing to say that versus making them go through having the, the shoes, you know, that they have or whatever.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, as a theater kid, I cannot relate to wanting to being popular.

[SPEAKER_01]: I got to say that is something I have actually thought about pretty often because one of my friends has a daughter in middle school.

[SPEAKER_01]: And she wanted to buy something to go to some event from she and and she was just having his conversation with her about, you know, the [SPEAKER_01]: it's that's not good for the people who are making in the clothes.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's not good for this and the daughter really wanted it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't really know the resolution on what happened but it was just it was just something that also got me thinking I don't have children and so I was like that's really tough like that's really tough especially because nowadays fitting in you know it's I feel like it's so much harder with so much more technology.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean we had [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I had a Facebook in high school and there was my space and saying good, all that jazz.

[SPEAKER_01]: But it wasn't as connected as we are today.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so people feel a lot more judged by their peers, especially because you're being judged by a lot more people and a lot more eyes.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so I don't know.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's like a really, really tough question.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, I just call uniform, but even then it was all the rich kids had, you know, these certain Tiffany necklaces or they had, you know, different shoes than I had or different things like that.

[SPEAKER_02]: But you know what, now that I'm thinking about it, it did lead me into maybe a spiteful [SPEAKER_02]: It wasn't really allowed to do this.

[SPEAKER_02]: My senior year, I was just like, okay, explain me.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I would wear different long skirts or I had these like, moccasin things.

[SPEAKER_02]: And like, it was not what everybody else was wearing.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I kind of leaned into it and was like, okay, well, I'm different.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm special and I'm not like you.

[SPEAKER_01]: I wonder if we're going to see, I mean, because everything happens in cycles, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: So we're seeing a lot of personal uniform selection where people are cycling in so much and it's so becoming so same same.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so I wonder if we're going to start seeing a lot more self-expression and people just wanting to be who they are and being more okay with that.

[SPEAKER_01]: And hopefully having that create a lot more respect for each other as people rather than consumers.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I see a lot of that now younger influencers, or I don't even know if they want to be influencers, but I'm seeing a lot of people gaining kind of following younger people with outfits that putting together get ready with me's outfits that are clearly what they have or what their style is, but it's like what I was talking about, it's like weird stuff, not weird, but it's like, [SPEAKER_02]: Here's this skirt.

[SPEAKER_02]: Here's I'm going to wear it with a long shirt and I'm going to belt it and have a hat.

[SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes with the get ready with me videos.

[SPEAKER_02]: I kind of like that they're a little out there or that somebody is wearing.

[SPEAKER_02]: They're not just get ready with me fancy stuff.

[SPEAKER_02]: They're getting ready with me kind of just like average clothing or personal style type stuff that I see in the comments people saying this inspires me to.

[SPEAKER_02]: to wear these, you know, different things, or wear what I have in my closet in a different way.

[SPEAKER_02]: Thinking of one girl who's like a young girl, I commented that she's so West Anderson coded, but she's like, just kind of wears these, she'll have like a skirt, and then I'm like, what is she gonna pair that with?

[SPEAKER_02]: And then she's just like a big shirt with Garfield on it, and I'm like, slay.

[SPEAKER_02]: or like, and then like, and then like, a barray and like little Mary Jains and I'm like, you know what work.

[SPEAKER_02]: I would rather see someone wearing that because I'm like, you kind of, I kind of, that's a conversation starter or it's kind of like, you're right.

[SPEAKER_02]: It brings in personality rather than everybody wearing an aviator shirt.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was having this really really great conversation with my friends actually this past weekend and we were talking about how so much of it also boils down to wanting to be liked, which is good, like ability is good, being kind is good, of course, all of these things, but also if [SPEAKER_01]: you boil yourself down to the most like what blanket palatable version of yourself you're never actually going to be able to get close to anyone and it also keeps you more isolated because you aren't able to really express who you are and you have to be able to be vulnerable once again this really a lot of this comes back to protecting ourselves from being vulnerable.

[SPEAKER_01]: You have to be able to willing to be vulnerable which means you have to be able to willing to show the weird part of your personality.

[SPEAKER_01]: Fricking love Nancy, your computer games, I love puzzle computer games, [SPEAKER_01]: love musical theater.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm a tap dancing egg right now like here all these weird things about me and like you they're like it or you don't and that's okay.

[SPEAKER_01]: You don't have to like tap dancing eggs.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's fine.

[SPEAKER_01]: We don't have to share that together.

[SPEAKER_01]: We don't have to share that.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that's fine.

[SPEAKER_01]: But we have to be able to be honest to actually truly break those barriers down because this is such a key part of building community is being able to share the vulnerability with each other.

[SPEAKER_01]: Instead of having to be perfect and polished all the time and oftentimes social media has made us become so incredibly polished because we're so afraid of missed stepping in front of so many people it's something I struggle with all the time on my platforms right I have so many people watching me I'm like oh god and I've become such almost wet blanket and there's something that I'm really working on this year is like breaking out of that because it's okay if you don't like me it's okay if you don't like me it's okay if you don't want to hear about tap dancing eggs that's fine like it's fine what tap dancing eggs [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: What is that?

[SPEAKER_01]: Something rotten the musical.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, oh, you're a tap dancing egg.

[SPEAKER_02]: Because like an egg in the trans world means someone who's like just realizing their trans or hasn't realized their trans.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I was like, are you just figuring out how to tap dance?

[SPEAKER_02]: No, in the musical and in the musical there are eggs and they tap dance and I'm one of them that's amazing so let's talk about like other tips not close or not cleaning products like what are other tips that you're like this is so easy and people just don't think about it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think one of the most powerful things people can do, like, I mean, genuinely, one of the most powerful things people can do is wait and just re-examining their consumption habits.

[SPEAKER_01]: One of the second most powerful things that you can do in your own home, besides, you know, voting and getting involved in your community, is...

[SPEAKER_01]: examining your food waste.

[SPEAKER_01]: So if food waste were a country, it would be the third largest midter of greenhouse gases behind the United States in China.

[SPEAKER_01]: And 50% of all food waste will in the US we waste 40% of all of our food.

[SPEAKER_01]: And half of that come from our own home personal kitchens.

[SPEAKER_01]: And a lot of people think food waste will break down in landfills because, you know, they're giant holes in the ground, but landfills are designed for storage, not decomposition.

[SPEAKER_01]: So instead, you have all this food scrap and it's kind of living or organic powder that's living in limbo in a releases methane, which is on average 30 to 80 times more powerful than CO2.

[SPEAKER_01]: It burns a lot hotter and a lot faster in the atmosphere.

[SPEAKER_01]: So simply by avoiding throwing your food scraps away and being a lot more mindful about how much you buy and ensuring that you actually eat what you buy are two of the biggest impacts you can have.

[SPEAKER_01]: And no one wants to spend more money on groceries, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: So simply just by examining how you buy your food, making sure you eat all of your food and then composting what you cannot is a huge thing you can do.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you're talking, so you're saying compost, not throw away.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, compost and then making sure that even before you get to the composting stage that you actually eat what you buy.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's so tough because you buy things to be aspirational.

[SPEAKER_02]: You're like, I'm going to eat this salad and then you don't.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, my third book is all about food waste and it examines this issue, this problem, and it also has recipes to help you avoid food waste with foods that are starting to go or starting to lose their peak freshness.

[SPEAKER_01]: For instance, if you have a strawberry and it's starting to go mushy, you are not going to want to eat that raw, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: But if you go out in a smoothie or you make a jam out of it, it's fine.

[SPEAKER_01]: If your cucumber is starting to go limp, you don't want to eat that raw, it would be terrible.

[SPEAKER_01]: But you can make this bacho, cucumber is bacho, that would be delicious.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, because it doesn't need to have it's, you doesn't need to have it same structural integrity.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's not bad, it's just not right.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so it's about learning how to use your foods in the right way when you might think, oh, I don't want to eat, like, challenging how you see your food, basically.

[SPEAKER_02]: What do you think of those companies that I get advertised all the time about?

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, buy our ugly produce.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think that's great.

[SPEAKER_01]: No, genuinely, it's amazing.

[SPEAKER_01]: So this is, and what they're saying is absolutely true.

[SPEAKER_01]: In the United States, we have beauty standards for our food, which is crazy.

[SPEAKER_01]: It tastes great.

[SPEAKER_01]: It just doesn't look great.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so therefore they will not put it on the shelves.

[SPEAKER_01]: It will still go away.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I always think about how salmon is not really pink.

[SPEAKER_02]: We're not really orange, they die, right, which is what are they give died to the fish or something.

[SPEAKER_02]: There's some weird thing that I think it's far it's farm fish.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they do it for farm fish.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, which we're just putting on a show now with our salmon like what there's this other stuff like that, too.

[SPEAKER_02]: There's something else that's.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's tight.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't remember what it is, but yeah, well, a lot of stuff to is growing specifically in a way like we've mutated a lot of stuff or we've mutated stuff to be I mean, some of it's good in the sense that it's you're getting more food to more people like us or like if the if this tomato is bigger maybe that's good.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't really know that much about it.

[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, I just like things that are out of season.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know it's that we've done something to the way that we consume food that's [SPEAKER_02]: very capitalistic market, you know, like market being wise or just having, I don't know, thinking that you're providing options when you're really kind of not.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's really fascinating, especially with the aisles of, you know, processed foods.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm not necessarily vilifying processed foods.

[SPEAKER_01]: I enjoy some cinnamon toast crunch sometimes, you know what I mean?

[SPEAKER_01]: But like, on the whole, a lot of the American diet is not as full of fresh fruits and vegetables.

[SPEAKER_01]: Is it should be or fiber?

[SPEAKER_01]: severely lacking in fiber and plants.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it's like one of the only things that like all nutritionists agree on is that Americans are short on fiber and short on eating more plans.

[SPEAKER_01]: And eating more diversified plants is also a great sustainable thing that we can do, like eating fewer animal products and eating more fruits and vegetables.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's great for our personal health.

[SPEAKER_01]: Subscribe to the planet.

[SPEAKER_02]: Is it where like the people that you know you buy everything organic or everything that's a little bit more expensive?

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm just thinking about like arrow wants movies or whatever.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like is there?

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I don't know what's in them.

[SPEAKER_02]: I've never had one, but they cost 20 bucks.

[SPEAKER_02]: But like, you know, like, what, it's, is that worth?

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I don't know.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's so interesting because I've, in my life, I've had to go to food banks.

[SPEAKER_02]: There, they'll just have, like, sometimes you'll go and you'll be like, what's the, what's the produce they have?

[SPEAKER_02]: And sometimes it's just tomatoes and potatoes.

[SPEAKER_02]: And so you gotta get real good at making stuff with potatoes.

[SPEAKER_02]: And, [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, is that leftover?

[SPEAKER_02]: Is that like going to be the the stuff that has the weird bad things in it to to like is there you know what I mean like the the only way to funnel stuff to people that need a food bank is to have it be processed or Doesn't even matter if it says organic on the apple like what are what are we doing [SPEAKER_01]: I remember reading a study about the kind of the claim 15 and 30 15.

[SPEAKER_01]: What's that you don't talk to about?

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, it's like the claim 15 or the 15 fruits and vegetables that you want to buy organic and the dirty, or no, no, no.

[SPEAKER_01]: The claim 15 are the ones that are fine by not organic and the dirty 15 or the ones that you should, [SPEAKER_01]: The moral of stories, this is like propaganda that's been pushed out a lot and the moral of the story is it's kind of not really true.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, and basically people were saying, it is better to eat a non organic apple than to eat potato chips like, or we're worried like, Oh gosh, like can't get the organic apple.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm just going to get this process thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, no, no, just eat the apple.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like at the end of the day, the apple is still better for you.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like it is still better for you to eat the apple.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so I think a lot of that is.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't overly abide by any specific organic non-organic philosophy, but mostly just eating, I just know that eating more fruits and vegetables is good for you.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so if you organic ones are there and they're accessible, I'll probably grab them.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then if they're not, I will also just grab the regular ones and eat it because at the end of the day, eating more fruits and vegetables is just good for you.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I love potatoes, potatoes are amazing.

[SPEAKER_02]: You can make so many things out potatoes.

[SPEAKER_02]: Honestly, the best investment I've ever made is an air fryer, which my friend Alex will want me to note he purchased for me.

[SPEAKER_01]: My favorite [SPEAKER_00]: My place in tech changes every day, but I don't fear the future.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because I'm with the leader, Plural Sight.

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[SPEAKER_01]: for it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Kitchen appliance that has saved me so many times is my instant pot.

[SPEAKER_01]: I love it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Love it.

[SPEAKER_01]: You can make beans so fast.

[SPEAKER_01]: My love beans.

[SPEAKER_02]: want to real chickpeas tip right now.

[SPEAKER_02]: I that could go with almost anything and I put those in the air fryer and they kind of I add them to meals that are kind of boring and I'm like oh there's some little chickpeas those are nice it's a little surprise amongst the vegetables.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah it's good fiber it's good plant-based protein that could carbs they got great macros and they're super sustainable growing beans very sustainable products especially if you're using it in regenerative agriculture [SPEAKER_02]: That's so hard with kids, though.

[SPEAKER_02]: I imagine I'm like, oh my god, if I just kept feeding my kids, chickpeas, would they even care?

[SPEAKER_02]: But I don't know.

[SPEAKER_02]: I had a friend who told his kids that yogurt was ice cream for years, and then they would be like, I want you, I want ice cream, and it was just always so good.

[SPEAKER_02]: You can just lie to kids.

[SPEAKER_02]: You can just straight up lie to him if you want.

[SPEAKER_02]: I've been till a point.

[SPEAKER_02]: I've been till a point.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they figured out when they go over to their friend's house and like this ice cream tastes funny.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, this ice cream is so thick.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's like this is like so much better.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, exactly.

[SPEAKER_02]: Or maybe their palate has adjusted to yogurt and they're like, this is too much.

[SPEAKER_02]: This is too rich.

[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe you have to find out you have to let me know yeah it's going to embarrass them at some point so that's interesting are there other tips or like something you know I always I always get when I'm like very overworked I get really spiteful and and like you know I have a friend who's clearly a good budget person like she makes content and she's like clearly making stuff in a way that has like a good heart and is useful.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I watched a video of her being like, just hem your clothes and I my first thought as I was so tired from my customer service job that I was like, oh, you have having time, you have time to him good for you and so I can imagine people listening to this feeling similarly.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I know that it's a thing where in the long term it's better to do, but it's so hard to in the moment when you're tired, be like, I'm not going to get it from Amazon.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think this also boils back down to finding your community because we it's it can be really isolating to just have to him yourself especially maybe you don't even know how to so right of course that's hard and sure you can take it to a tailor but then that's a lot of time to right and so how can you create experiences that are more.

[SPEAKER_01]: I want to say that we're profitable, but it's not what I mean, but like how can you create a better experience.

[SPEAKER_01]: So my friend is coming over on Sunday and we're going to catch up and we're having a mending party.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so instead of us going shopping together, she's going to come over and I so and we're going to mend some stuff together and we're going to hang out and that's a really fun way that we're going to spend time together.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm going to have a great time.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not even going to realize that I'm spending it fixing something, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Because we've created [SPEAKER_01]: We've created these tasks as also isolating experiences, but instead of shopping with your friends, or instead of, you know, because so much of our culture revolves around shopping.

[SPEAKER_01]: So instead of like, oh, let's go shopping, what if we, oh, let's go mending, or what if we just, because we want to spend time with each other, why do we have to do it in a setting that requires us to spend so much money?

[SPEAKER_01]: And it doesn't always.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah friend coming over what so I can cook for them is and they're so easily impressed I have a friend I just made pasta and I like added a little vegetable to the pasta and they were like oh my god and I'm like it's literally pasta like I didn't do but like they were saying if you go over to someone's house and they feed you you're automatically endeared even if it's just like a simple thing and I was like yeah you're really thanking me way too much.

[SPEAKER_01]: But these are the kinds of friends that we should have.

[SPEAKER_01]: So you come over and we cook together and then we can each have meals for the week and we prep.

[SPEAKER_01]: And we've got to spend time with each other.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it's how can we create these things that are a feel like burdens, but create them as experiences that are actually so much more fulfilling.

[SPEAKER_01]: Because at the end of the day, none of us are gonna think, oh man, I really wish about more stuff.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's gonna be, oh man, I really wish I spent more time with the people I love.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so it's about reorganizing our priorities for the things that truly matter.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and that's I'm sure what you're talking about with wasting time, maybe as like a zero waste kind of situation.

[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, most of us have probably lost some of what we've loved.

[SPEAKER_01]: And we've all thought, man, I really wish I had more time with them.

[SPEAKER_01]: And instead of spending my time in my life, trying to make money to buy things to impress people like, don't even like, I'd much rather use my time in a way that actually makes me feel fulfilled.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that is definitely spending time with the people I love doing the things that I love that fill me with joy.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that's what it's about.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's not about depriving myself of anything.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's about living a life that's more fulfilled.

[SPEAKER_02]: I know this is why I'm so fascinated by this movement and I like may try to be way more involved in it because I deleted Amazon, but then I was funny I deleted Amazon and then like my friends were like not like in a bad way, but they were like, oh good for you, like you're on my horse.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's like I'm not on a high horse.

[SPEAKER_02]: I just don't need it, but maybe maybe the high horse will inspire them.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_02]: They're just they're just like I think it was like, uh, oh, just get it on Amazon and I was like, I don't have Amazon and they were like, okay, we got it.

[SPEAKER_02]: You're better than us.

[SPEAKER_02]: But in a, you know, very like not in a bad way, but hopefully maybe that makes them think they don't need Amazon.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know, but I also, yeah, I'm just so fascinated by this whole thing and I've started calling it what you were talking about I've started calling it.

[SPEAKER_02]: Seinfeld Hangouts where like you know you would watch Seinfeld and be like why is George at Jerry's like doctors appointment like why is you know like why is Elaine like going grocery shopping with with Jerry you know what I mean like [SPEAKER_02]: because they need to be there for the thing and it feels like contrived, but I'm like, no, we need to have like a side felt hang where we're just doing a task together.

[SPEAKER_02]: Or we're doing, you know what I mean?

[SPEAKER_02]: They're never really other than the diner.

[SPEAKER_02]: They're not, or like, you know, a couple restaurants.

[SPEAKER_02]: They're never just, it would get boring if they were at the same place all the time.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, I love I've got to start calling it that I love that that's exactly what it should be we should be able to have our friendships outside of a consumption based top like a consumption based activity.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I don't have a car anymore, which is great.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's been fun.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's been interesting to hang out with people and then be like, can you drive me home?

[SPEAKER_02]: And I don't know if that's annoying, but it is like we get to go to a second location.

[SPEAKER_02]: We're chatting in the car.

[SPEAKER_02]: And like, you know, it feels people, it just feels kind of like taking the friendship to another level.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like it's someone that I just met.

[SPEAKER_02]: We went to a diner and then I was like, do you mind dropping off in my house?

[SPEAKER_02]: And it feels like, oh, this is like a real friend.

[SPEAKER_02]: It wasn't just like a meeting, you know?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I I carpool almost everywhere with people.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it's just so fun.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like it's so much more fun to have someone in the car with you, especially if you're going, you know, 20 minutes away.

[SPEAKER_01]: So.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, I know we're sort of saying over and over this individualistic thing, but yeah, it's just, you have to push yourself outside of the social anxiety or outside of the, I don't know.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I feel like that makes you closer to people.

[SPEAKER_02]: It makes you closer to people to do that kind of thing together.

[SPEAKER_02]: Or what was the, oh, I had just met this person.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, I'm moving apartments, and I have to drop the last, I have to do the walkthrough of my old apartment.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I want to keep talking.

[SPEAKER_02]: Do you mind coming as it was just a complete stranger?

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, friend of a friend.

[SPEAKER_02]: And we just, they came to my walkthrough for my apartment and we're just like hanging out and chatting while I was like, yeah, and then, you know, this is, we fixed this hole and we did this.

[SPEAKER_02]: That was like, I kind of love this.

[SPEAKER_02]: Sine felt hang.

[SPEAKER_02]: I love it.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to use it.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, thank you so much for joining us.

[SPEAKER_02]: And this is just been something I'm really fascinated with and maybe we'll become a hyper fixation.

[SPEAKER_02]: So can you tell my audience where to find you and your work.

[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.

[SPEAKER_01]: So you can find me at going zero waste.com.

[SPEAKER_01]: I have a sub stack and I'm also on Instagram going dot zero dot waste.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I have several books, which you can also find on my website.

[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much.

[SPEAKER_01]: Awesome.

[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much for having me.

[SPEAKER_02]: Bad with money with Gabriel S.

Dunn is a production of noted by sexual, produced by modulicity, mods, and diamond, and print productions.

[SPEAKER_02]: Edited by Diane Kang, post-production sound by Coco Lorenz, production assistants by Melanie D.

Watson, and music by Mike Kaplan's actor when in Jack Dolgin, sung by Sam Barbarra.

[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you, love you, bye!