I got back on social media, and one of the first things I saw was actually something that was good.

Nice.

And so maybe I'm back.

I don't know.

I I don't think so.

I think you got lucky.

I think I got lucky.

In between a bunch of like political fighting, there was a great tweet, at least I thought a good tweet, from Andrew Huberman, uh famous podcaster.

And it said the best protocol to eliminate filler words like ums and ahs is in this video.

And he spoke with somebody who I guess is a speech expert, Matt Abrams.

And I watched this short clip, and it was about how to try to land your sentences to remove filler words.

And it was convicting for me because what he's describing is I have like the anti-pattern of this.

So maybe somebody else can jump in and share.

What is the anti-pattern?

But you never land the sentence, you just keep talking.

Okay, so I told this uh to Kevin the other day because Kevin now knows two of my siblings.

And one of the patterns we have is you're hearing a group of five kids.

As soon as you get attention from your parents as a child, you have to kind of hold it and you never ever let it go.

And the way you do it is by lots of filler words, and then like you finish a sentence and immediately start the second one, and then you hold it, and then you get a breath, and then you go and you you always keep continuing.

Yeah.

Right.

So you your stories just kind of stink and you ramble.

Yeah.

I have noticed this in the Brooke family.

They all one story just bleeds right into another story, bleeds into another story.

And they're not all A plus stories, if we're being honest.

No, I think they tell four or five stories and try to like get one hit out of the four or five that they weep.

It's a numbers game for sure.

So I listened to the full clip of this.

Like the whole episode is over two hours long.

I I started it and then I went to the place where he actually went into the questions where someone asked, like, what can I do about filler words?

And it's interesting that you bring up growing up in a household of five siblings as like that's what formed your speech patterns, because he talks about how filler words actually serve a purpose.

And he used to think they were all bad, but they're not all bad because some of them indicate that, you know, you are about to say something.

So you're holding your place so that no one interrupts you.

And then he also talks about how there was research done where kids have kind of gleaned from the way that adults speak that when they say um or uh, it's almost like a flag that what they're about to say is really important.

And so that's ingrained in us.

And so what happens is when we hear a lot of people say, um, and then they don't say anything important or they say another um or another uh, it irritates us, it frustrates us in like this really innate way.

So it makes sense to me that you would use a lot of filler words to hold attention because you're like holding your place, like I'm about to say something really important here.

So I need you to focus on me.

You're letting people know I'm thinking through this.

So that makes sense.

There might be something with a little bit more thought right after the ums and ahs.

Yeah.

It's one of the reasons I actually like so when we added filler word removal, we didn't take them all out.

We only do ones with high confidence, and that ends up being ones with like space around them, ums and ahs that are like back to back to back.

Yeah.

It sounds a little bit better.

Like maybe we shouldn't be taking them all out.

I've shared this many times, but Barack Obama learned to add them into his speech pattern because he didn't have any, or he'd somehow grown up without using any.

And so it sounded unnatural to people.

So when he ran for office, he added them in.

He did not have five siblings.

So he didn't.

I don't maybe he got he got the healthier pattern.

So what do we do?

What are the protocols that we can take to learn how to land a sentence?

Okay, so what Matt Abrams said, one of the things that he does to avoid filler words is you have to make sure that you're breathing in because you can't speak while you're breathing in.

So that means you can't say a filler word while you're breathing in.

And so the tip that he gave is to use up all your air as you say your sentence and to land the sentence, kind of like how a gymnast would like jump and then like, you know, stick the landing.

You want to do the same thing with your sentences.

And so you want to make sure that you land your phrases and then at the end of the phrase, you take in air.

So instead of saying, um, when you're thinking, you're actually just taking in air.

But I have to say, it was funny.

When I first heard this, I was like, well, I don't know if this is gonna work for a theater person like myself because I can push out a lot of words before I run out of air.

Like it's all in there.

So I don't know.

Does the laugh, the laugh, does that count as a filler word?

I feel like Jordan, you land a lot of your sentences with a laugh.

I do.

And actually, that's something I've been working on a lot because it's sort of like a nervous thing that I do sometimes.

If I get like really nervous, I get super giggly.

Oh, I have tips on this.

Oh, handling handling nerves.

So we can, we can maybe if we have time, we can get into some of that.

All right.

So the main protocol is you're trying to end the amount of air that you have in your lungs.

You're trying to get it all out at the period or the whatever the terminal punctuation is.

It ends the sentence as you end your breath so that you breathe in between sentences.

And maybe there's a couple sentences in a row, but when it ends is when your breath ends.

So you're not tempted to take a big um and then take a breath after that.

Yeah.

I think it's a pretty good technique, especially for public speaking.

And I think it could work pretty well in podcasting too, depending on how good you got at like honing this technique in.

But I do know also that one of the things that annoys podcasters more than listeners, I think, but podcasters can be self-conscious about when they're listening back to their recording, they get conscious about hearing themselves breathe in the microphone.

And so I do think if you're doing this, you don't want every time you land a sentence, you don't want to hear a big that would that would probably drive me crazy too.

And so I think this could also play into your microphone technique.

Like land your sentence, pull yourself off the mic, and breathe in.

That's the only thing I would add specifically for podcasters, because otherwise, you're just gonna end up in a spot where instead of removing filler words from your recordings, you're removing all these breath sounds.

Yes.

That's another thing I was thinking about too, Kevin, as an editor.

Yeah, technique number two, it's gotta be breathe through your nose.

You know, take a big diaphragmatic breath through the nose.

In the pre-show, Kevin was uh like, what is this word?

You can't use that word.

It just sounds so complicated.

Yeah, diaphragmatic breath.

Breathe with your belly, let your belly come out a little bit, take a big deep breath through your nose.

We're not gonna be a mouth breather.

And if you do that, you're not going to have a big breath in the mic.

I don't know.

To me, like those big breaths can also indicate excitement, similar to how some filler words indicate to me, like, I don't know.

I think I know what you're saying because I I did a little bit of research.

Ha-da!

Ooh, super exciting.

This is like the second episode where you've done some.

I'm all in.

I'm all in on the podcast now.

We're over 200 episodes.

I feel like it's you're finally buying in.

Yeah, we're gonna stick with this long term.

I'm gonna put some more effort in.

So I did some research, and what you're saying about it is it shows excitement.

One of the tips that I have is like you can underline words in your speech.

Like in the outline, right?

Like if you're reading a written page, you could have underlined words, you could have bolded words or something.

How can you do that when you're speaking?

And it's also easier to probably do that in person.

Like you could use hand gestures, you could show excitement on your face.

If you're doing a video, you could use some of those techniques.

But if it's just audio, how do you underline a word?

And the tip here was to mark keywords per sentence by slowing down and emphasizing specific words.

I see what you did there.

You see what I did?

I feel like you're giving me some attitude.

That's what I hear.

By slowing down and emphasizing.

Right.

Those words were underlined.

Yeah.

Audibly.

All right.

Well, I also did some research, Kevin, so I've got some other tips.

Okay.

Let's hear them.

The belly breathing was the main one I got.

Yeah.

But then I read this blog that said it helps you prevent running out of air and vocal fry.

I didn't know that's what vocal fry was.

I know like kind of the nasally sound is vocal fry, but it's running out of air.

Yeah, it makes sense.

It makes sense.

If you want to, if you want to make your voice intentionally sound a little fryy, you're not pushing out a lot of air to get that sound.

Yeah.

And so it makes sense that it would happen accidentally as you're running out of air.

Yeah.

Uh, I have another one.

Okay.

A technique that I think that I've gotten pretty good at, which is to speak in short clusters of two to three sentences and then just pause.

I like doing this because Jordan and I were not going to talk there.

So we were just seeing how long this pause is going to be with just the right amount of pause.

Jordan, please leave the whole pause.

I'm going to.

It's going to be in there.

I'm really sorry for our listeners that get confused and trying to check their apps to see if it's still playing.

I like doing it because I think it gives time for the person that you're communicating to to process what you just said, and it gives you time to think of like what's the next point I want to make.

Yeah.

If you're constantly filling the space with a filler word, with just random things.

All filler words are not always ums or ahs.

Sometimes they're just like habitual things we say.

Like a lot of people will say, you know what I mean?

Or they'll say like, or they'll say right.

They'll kind of ask questions in the middle of talking.

And I think that takes away from the effectiveness of what you're trying to communicate because you just asked a question after you said a statement.

So you're trying to get some feedback, but that interrupts the thought process.

So that kind of leads to on this episode, they were talking about how really speaking with confidence in itself and not getting in your head and not thinking about like constantly judging yourself or trying to judge what other people are thinking about what you're saying is probably the best way to speak with more confidence.

And when you speak with confidence, you don't use as many filler words.

And so I think that trying to get comfortable with speaking into a microphone or trying to get comfortable with asking someone questions without fear of judgment might be one of the best tips to remove filler words in your speech.

I know that for sure for me.

Yeah.

If I'm judging what I'm saying while I say it, I lose like 40 IQ points and I'm running out.

Me too.

That's not good.

Yeah.

But there's people, and I think my uncle is one of these people who they make you feel like you're the smartest person they've ever talked to.

Like they're such good listeners.

And when you're talking to someone who's just a really good listener, you feel confident.

You feel like everything you say makes sense.

And I think it makes you quite a bit smarter.

Or at least it makes what you're saying so much more confident.

And I think actually what I'm saying is more likely to be accurate.

I mean, it makes you a better communicator.

Yeah, that's probably a better way of saying it.

I'm I'm a little bit nervous right now, so it's probably not coming out right.

But it's true.

It when you're able to just say things in a very like concise way, it actually makes you sound more intelligent.

You guys have mentioned nerves a few times.

Can we transition into nerves?

Sure.

And how to take control of your, I don't know, physical reaction to whether you're public speaking or recording a podcast or anything like that.

Uh the first category here is pre-talk physical control and it's basically stress reduction.

And so I have a couple techniques that I'm gonna run by you guys.

We could try them together if you want.

Let's do it.

Let's do it live.

Yeah, the first one is very quick.

So we can try this one first, and then I'll just explain the other two because they're a little longer.

First one is called physiological psi.

And the way that you do this is you do two short inhales and then one long exhale.

And the promise here is that it will reduce stress in under 10 seconds.

This does work.

Should we practice this?

The way you do it is you take a big breath and then you take another on top of it.

Yep.

You go and then a long exhale.

Do you feel less stressed?

Oh, that sounds good.

Go like as much as you get on the first one.

You're trying to get as deep of a breath, and then you pull another one on top of it, and you get so much more air, and then you let the sigh go as long as you can.

The next one is called quadrant breathing.

Maybe you've heard of this.

Oh, is this a square?

Box breathing.

Yeah, it's like box breathing, is another thing you pull, which is a four-second inhale, a four-second hold, a four-second exhale, and a four-second hold.

This works.

This takes a little bit longer, but what it does is it calms your heart rate and it steadies your voice.

So this is something you would do like five minutes before you're gonna record or something like that.

Just to reduce your stress, like right before you record, you can do the quick inhales and long exhale.

But if if you have a few minutes before you start recording, you can do some box breathing or quadrant breathing, and that will calm your heart rate and steady your voice.

Yeah.

And there's also a warm-up hum, which is a low humming for 30 to 60 seconds, which vibrates the vagus nerve and soothes your vocal tone.

Ariana Grande does this.

Oh, really?

Mm-hmm.

This is how she warms up.

Like she'll just hum for like an hour in the morning and she just hums throughout the day and stuff.

And she said that that's what she does.

Well, there you go.

It works.

You could be the next Ariana Grande.

Yeah.

All right.

Next, next category.

I'll cover this quick.

Mental reframing.

Yes.

So instead of saying things like, I'm nervous, you change that to I'm excited.

All right.

So this, I remember the first time I heard it, this changed how I saw a lot of things as being uh stressful into being more excited.

Because I enjoy public speaking.

And there'd be times where I'm going on stage and I'd get excited.

And there's times I was feeling like anxious about it or nervous about it.

And the insight that I think it's William James had is that the physiological state, the feelings in your body are the same feelings.

They're just sometimes coded in our minds as I'm scared or I'm anxious or I'm stressed.

And sometimes they're coded as I'm excited.

Like it's an arousal state for all of them.

It can either be a positive arousal state, like excitement, and not or a negative arousal state like stressed or anxious.

Yeah, or fearful.

And now I just when I'm feeling that, I'm going, oh, I'm really excited about this.

I can feel my heart rate going up.

I can feel that I'm a little bit uh bouncy.

This is great.

I'm ready to go for this talk.

And it has a real benefit for me.

Yeah.

So I've I've shared this with a bunch of people.

I don't know if it's ever landed for anyone I've shared it with, probably because I was using the run-on sentence uh strategy.

You shared it with me and I tried this, but I don't know what it my brain just goes, girl, don't lie to yourself.

Like, no, you can't pull one over on me.

And so I've been in a couple situations where I was like feeling like a little bit anxious, or I started feeling that like panic kind of coming up.

And I'm like, okay, wow, I'm I'm so excited.

I just have like all these butterflies because I'm I just can't wait to do this thing.

And I I tell myself that.

And then like I just know deep in my heart, like, girl, no, you're petrified right now.

It's not true.

And so that one doesn't work for me.

I can't lie to myself.

Well, they might not work for everybody.

Yeah.

All right, I have one more.

Okay.

And this is this is under the behavior management category.

And this is don't rush the start.

The concept is to deliver your first line slowly and set your baseline pace.

We want to speak slowly, usually, especially if we're um excited or anxious, depending on what you believe when you tell yourself.

You have a tendency to come out pretty hot and then your energy wanes throughout.

And this technique is about starting off slow.

So you have like sustaining energy.

So you would probably start slow, you'd build energy into your you know, podcast episode, and then hopefully have enough to sustain a more steady energy throughout instead of starting super hot and then waning quickly.

I think that this is a technique that a lot of stand-up comedians use.

Cause you see, um, if you've ever gone to a comedy show where the comedian just bombs, which I mean happens, you know, they'll come out and they're so excited, they're like, hey everyone, uh, and then as things are just kind of like digressing, they get a little bit more quiet, and then it's like, all right, oh, bye.

You know, it's you don't want to bomb on stage.

And so it works out a lot better, I think, when the comedians come out and then they work up to the comedy and you're just kind of like on this journey with them.

Um, I see that a lot with comedians.

Yeah.

I always feel like when I get on a recording, I've got to come in with a bunch of energy and deliver it all up front because I'm just thinking, like if people are listening to the beginning of an episode and I'm not bringing it right from the first 10, 15 seconds, then they're gonna skip the podcast or something.

But I don't think that's true.

That might be true on YouTube, that might be true on Instagram and TikTok and YouTube Shorts.

It might be true.

I mean, that's I mean, people are scrolling like crazy.

Yeah.

But when I tune into a podcast, I'm giving it a couple minutes for sure.

And I'm mostly just listening and figuring out am I tracking with the topic?

Am I interested in the topic?

Where I do get lost, if I'm gonna get lost in a topic that I'm interested in, it's because halfway through the host has sort of, I don't know, gotten tired and waned off, or they've gone on rabbit trails and they're not holding true to the content they told me that they were gonna talk about at the beginning of the episode.

And so I don't know that we have to always come in super hot in the podcasting format.

You can start at a reasonable, controlled, slow pace, and I think that could be totally acceptable and probably welcome by a lot of listeners.

And remember, they have playback controls in their podcast apps.

So if you're talking too slow for them, they can make you talk a little faster.

Very rarely do I think people slow down podcasts.

And so if you're just talking too fast, probably you're gonna lose some people because they're not gonna turn you down.

It's gonna sound weird.

They're just gonna feel like I'm not tracking with this episode.

I'm gonna move on to something else.

You can speed the podcast up.

You could use Apple's new chapter markers that they're automatically adding into podcasts to skip bat episode segments.

People can move around, they don't have to listen to the whole thing.

So maybe you can speak with a bit more confidence.

These are all people who have opted in to listen to this story as opposed to maybe family members who are just a captive audience for a few minutes while you ramble.

Yeah.

I think that you should definitely, if you want to improve as a speaker, as a podcaster, as an interviewer.

I think this is the first time I'm going to recommend a Huberman Lab episode.

And so I'll link to that in the show notes.

And I think that you should listen to it.

Thanks for listening and keep podcasting.