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Hey, fellow travelers, I'm Lori Gottlieb.

I'm the author of Maybe You Should Talk to Someone, and I write the Dear Therapist column for The Atlantic.

And I'm Guy Winch.

I wrote Emotional First Aid, and I write the Dear Guy call Um for Ted.

And this is Deo Therapists.

This week, a man cares for his ex girlfriend's dog and his current partner is concerned about what that means for their relationship.

I said, you know, it's really funny.

I have never met this person and I'm sorry to use the word hate, but I hate her already because she is in the middle of our relationship.

Listen in and maybe learn something about yourself and the process.

Hey, just a note before we start.

Dear Therapist is for informational purposes only, does not constitute medical advice, and is not a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment.

Always seek the advice of your physician, mental health professional, or other qualified health provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition.

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Hey louri, Hey guy, So I hear this week's letter has something to do with a dog.

It does, indeed, apparently to his company, and a dog makes it a crowd.

Let me read you the letter, Dear therapists.

I started dating a guy a few months ago, in fact, one week before strict quarantine measures.

The beautiful part about this lockdown is we talk a lot.

Does I feel like I've gotten to know him on a deeper level more quickly than I might have otherwise.

We have great emotional and physical chemistry.

We read together, write together, cook together, great conversations, etc.

It's been wonderful.

There is, however, an unresolved issue from his past.

He takes care of his ex girlfriend's dog whenever she's out of town.

They maintain a close friendship, but because of COVID nineteen, she's been somewhat willingly stranded in another part of the country, and he's been dog sitting for almost three months.

Now.

Here's the catch.

This is the same woman whom he cheated on his ex wife with over five years ago.

As I've learned more about him and their history, I can't seem to get past why they still maintain a close friendship, and I get annoyed at his inability to return the dog.

He knows how I feel.

I believe the dog represents a connection he subconsciously doesn't want to let go of, and that he's not giving himself time to heal from their break up, which was only last June, with a one night stand in October.

They were friends before he got married and lost touch, but he described the romantic relationship as toxic.

It was on again, off again.

She never wanted to commit.

She is someone that his friends and family think is bad news.

He assures me this person is in his past, but I know that their relationship was intense, passion, and one in which he was usually hurt or dumped because he didn't want it to end.

Although he believes he can still be friends with his ex, I'm not so sure.

After many serious conversations, he is clear that the dog has to go and has been empathetic to my feelings, but has also asked me what I think he should do regarding their friendship.

He knows that I don't want to tell him what to do because I don't want to be the source of blame later on, but I also wanted to come from him.

Am I reading too much into my feelings about what this dog represents?

Sincerely Amy?

So it's really interesting to me guy that this is a letter that centers around a dog, because I don't think people realize that dogs come up so much in therapy because of the importance that our pets play in our lives.

And then also what happens when there's a breakup, and like having a child with somebody, what happens to the animals that were involved, even tangentially in that relationship.

Dogs are family members for most people, so it's not a simple thing about return the dog.

And also, if it's COVID, a dog might actually be playing a important role in this guy's life.

So I'm not even sure what the level of sacrifice that is in terms of giving up the dog.

And I think in this case, the dog is threatening because it represents that tie that this man still has to his ex girlfriend, and so she wants that tie severed, both the dog to be returned and perhaps the friendship even to be severed.

So this is a letter about a dog that's actually not about.

A dog, right, He says, that he's willing to not take care of the dog, but at the same time he's asking her if he should maintain the friendship.

It's almost like he's abdicating responsibility for making that decision himself.

Do you let dogs come into your sessions?

I do, and I'm not that particular about why they have to bring the dog.

I just love dogs, and so I allow dogs.

Cats not so much because they tend to open my desk and spill things, but dogs and babies by all means, bring them on.

This is Deo Therapists.

Thanks for listening.

You're listening to Dear Therapists from iHeartRadio.

So let's go talk to Amy.

So Hi Amy, Hi Amy, Great to meet you.

Hi guy, Hi Laurie Amy.

I'm wondering if you could tell us a little bit more about the relationship.

So we met at the gym and then we started talking.

So we've been seeing each other for four months now, yeah, I'm going in five months.

And starting at the beginning of the relationship, did you know about this X and what were those conversations?

Like I did not know about the ex.

What he did make clear to me at the very beginning and literally in our first conversation was he mentioned his kids, like, oh, I have to go do something with my kids, and so I think he wanted to make it very clear that there was an ex wife in his life and he had kids.

But the only reason that the ex came up initially was because of the dog hair in his apartment and the dog I mean, sorry, never mind the dog here and the dog in his apartment.

I said, oh, who's dog in this?

And it was like one of those size like, well, this is not my dog, but this is a friend's dog.

And then little by little bits and pieces of information, this friend was actually more than a friend.

He's never really called her next girlfriend.

I think they've just had this on again, off again relationship.

So as time goes by, I always get little snippets of information that come out for whatever reason.

Well for whatever reason is actually important, right, he said he needs to heal.

So how much has he said about the fact that he was truly heartbroken after this on and off again thing was over.

You know what, He's very open, but sometimes when we're in a moment, we're having a glass of wine, it reflegged on our relationship and how much he enjoys our connection.

And I think it's always like the reference is what he's experiencing now, which he has never experienced before.

You said that he hasn't experienced this before, So you're saying, not just in that other relationship, but he didn't experience this kind of whatever good feelings that he's having right now in the level of comfort and connection, he didn't experience that in his marriage either.

Correct.

Correct.

Yeah, he's been very very open about that.

He's the type of person that believes in partnership.

Last night we were I was going to cook a dinner and he had this radio show that he had to go on and he's like, you know, just cancel the radio show.

I's like, don't cancel.

You do your hour show out while I start the cooking.

And so after he said, you know, that to me is such a level of partnership, like give and take.

So he always reflects on things that he really likes about our relationship that he never had before.

And yet there's this feeling that you have a trust issue with him.

Correct, And so tell us where that comes from on your end with somebody who's that expressive and actually saying all those reassuring things.

Where that comes from?

For you, Yeah, so you know the trust issue.

So he said that he in the past in order to avoid conflict or in order to avoid an argument if you were laid at work, but you don't avoid a conflict you said, oh, you know, I had to pick out something at the grocery store.

Like little lies.

He used to tell a lot of little lies.

And when he with this X, he was unfaithful.

So when someone is open about that with you, I think you automatically are like, you're telling me that you used to lie a lot to avoid conflict.

You were unfaithful.

And he's talked about openly working on that with a therapist.

But for me, it creates a sense of will this person do it again?

You know, if you I've cheated ones, will you cheat again?

You know, if you're used to lying, how easy is that habit to break?

Have you actually expressed to him what you just expressed to us, which is that you wonder how that's going to play out between the two of you, and while he's working on it individually, how the two of you can create a line of communication that's open around that issue so that you're not wondering whether he's lied about the little things and what can happen in your relationship that can create an environment where not only does he not feel like he has to lie, but that you don't feel like you have to keep checking up on him.

Yeah, it's really funny that you say that, Laurie, because we talk about trust a lot.

Let's just start with the infidelity part.

I asked him openly.

I said, I just need to ask you.

Do you believe that infidelity on any level is okay?

He said, He'll go out with some of his friends and they all take pictures of the group of them at the restaurant and send it to their wives so that they know that they are in fact with their friends.

And I said, oh, that just doesn't fly with me.

I want to be able to trust you when you go.

If you say you are where you are, I don't want to check up on you.

I said, that is not the type of dynamics that I would like to create.

So his answer was absolutely.

I don't believe in Fidel.

He that he destroys a relationship.

He's like, it's the absolute worst thing you can do in a relationship, he said, because you never regained trust.

Ever, it's out the windows.

So I feel like that was an important conversation to have.

He has also said to me that in his past there were only two very significant relationships in his life.

One was before he was married, and the other one was this ex And he said, those two people who he's had a really strong bond with, he was never unfaithful with.

Can you tell us a little bit about your relationship history, like what your experiences have been.

I'm thirty eight.

I've had probably four relationships and they all lasted between two and three years.

When I connect with someone, I really give it a go or give it my all, not a really casual dater type of person.

Has infidelity been a part of your relationships never?

I told him that if you feel like you want to be unfaithful, we need to have that conversation and maybe we shouldn't be in a relationship.

How long was he married?

Six years?

And he's been divorced for just as long.

Has he had any other relationships since in the six years but he's been divorced.

He's mentioned several people that he's dated, and then inevitably he will say that this other person has sort of been the sort of the demise of the relationship.

At some point, like she'll come back in the picture, she reappears, and then he doesn't give that relationship a chance.

I mean, I'm definitely the longest relationship that he's had since he's been divorced.

You said that in all of the other relationships that this other woman would appear and that would be the demise of the relationship, because she actually has appeared in your relationship in the form of a dog.

Absolutely, And what I said at the beginning the first few months, I said, you know, it's really funny.

I have never met this person, but I hate her already because she is in the middle of our relationship.

Is the dog still there?

Yes, the X is going to be temporarily relocating to the other part of the country, and so she has to come back to the city to move out of her apartment.

By the end of the month, she has to be out.

So he has emphatically said that this dog has got to go by the end of the month.

You are very clear with him that the dog bothers you, that he shouldn't have this dog, But you also say that you don't want to tell him what to do about the friendship quote unquote correctly, this X, and I'm struggling to understand what's the difference really.

In other words, it's a big thing to say to someone you cannot keep this dog, which he's had for several months.

He's basically living alone with the dog, So he might have his own attachment to the dog because you can get very lonely and the dog's are wonderful company.

You ask, you know about what the dog represents.

The dog represents the ex if you feel comfortable saying to him, this dog shouldn't be here, why don't you feel comfortable saying and your friendship with this woman who keeps reappearing and sabotaging the dates you have, she shouldn't be in the picture either.

You know what, I feel like the dog represents this woman, But against you doubt yourself.

I think, Okay, does this dog represent the woman?

Is this dog a connection?

Or am I just totally over analyzing the situation.

Can he have a friendship with this person?

I mean, he has mentioned that he's known for twenty something years.

But I said, this is not a friend.

I said, I don't have snacks with my friends like this is.

This is not a normal friend.

You know, there are times when people are friends with their exes and it works out just fine because it was a relationship, it ended, they transitioned in whatever way to friendship.

But the difference here is that this woman has, as he said, led to the demise of every one of his relationships, and that there was also a very unhealthy aspect to the relationship.

Yeah, and you're not able to say to him, and I'm not comfortable with this woman with whom you have a very complicated, unresolved sexual relationship.

Yeah, you know what, I guess.

I feel like if I say sorry, you can't do that.

I don't want him to think that he has to hide it if he wants to be friends with her anyway, because he thinks he can be friends with her.

I've tried to make suggestions based on what I've read, saying things like I've read that there's things that you can do, like on following on social media, but Amy, that's so indirect.

One of the things that I think he really appreciates about this relationship, and I think you do too, is how open you're able to be with each other, even though there is this underlying trust issue.

Why not ask him what this friendship means to him and why he wants to continue this friendship and how he imagines it will impact this relationship.

Have you ever had that conversation with him.

I have.

His answer has been, I am friendly with all of my exes in the sense that I can wish I'm a happy birthday, but I'm friends with all of my exes.

I said, here's a difference.

I don't write them on a weekly basis.

I don't keep their animals for them when they leave on a trip.

The problem with this specific X is she comes across like the bad friends you don't and your kids hanging around with, because she's a bad influence.

She's the one that all of his friends think is no good.

She's the ones that whenever she comes back, he's not able to stand for some reason her charms and ends up sleeping with her again, even after they supposedly break up from what wasn't a relationship.

Then in October they sleep with each other again.

In other words, he seems to not have a great line of defense with this lady.

And I think that's the concern that you have about her.

What happens the next time she circles around to see what's what this is?

Not about staying in touch with an ex a next that keeps its on and it's off, and it's on and it's off.

And it sounds like at her bidding a reflection on his feelings or his inability to say no to her.

Have you expressed that to him?

You know, I don't think I have expresses what you just said.

That maybe you're vulnerable when she comes around, because you I know, but this sounds so funny.

You just can't control yourself.

Okay, So this is something important that I did share with him.

My most significant ex, who is the person that I thought I was going to marry.

We dated for three years, then he ended up ending a relationship and he would keep in touch and if we were traveling in the same city or something like that, we would hook up.

And it started getting unhealthy because I always wanted to be with him, so I started being hopeful and I would always get hurt.

So this went on for several years, and I realized that this person was keeping me from meeting other people.

Mister dreamman whatever could have walked right in front of me and I wouldn't have even seen him.

So I shared that story with him, and I told him I need to tell you how I handled this situation because it was one of the most difficult things that I have ever done.

The last time we saw each other, which was a couple of years ago, we had a great time, but then he started giving me the cold shoulder.

I wanted more, and I texted him and I said, please do not ever come duck me again.

And not even five minutes had passed when I said that, and I started texting him.

What I meant by what I meant by please do not was please do not write to me in a sexual way anymore.

And I started making excuses for myself and it was like, oh, because you didn't.

It was like, you said, I'm going to quit the drug.

Yes, wait, just give me a little fixed to keep in my closet.

Just didn't care.

Justin get.

I was like, oh my god, this this is like a drug.

I said, I'm done.

I am done.

And we never spoke again.

And I said, you have no idea how difficult that was for me to do and how empowering.

But also I didn't realize how much it was really hurting me.

So how did he respond any Because yes, you like teat it right up?

He was like someone that wasn't over, like get over the end with a bat.

He was like, Okay, I get it, and he'll say things like that.

I guess I want him to say, I've unfollowed her, I've deleted her, I've done it without me giving an ultimam.

Because I think you're also afraid that he will resort to the white nying about it, and she'll text him and then he'll just know it's just at the grocery store and here's a picture of me with my friends in the restaurant.

Right right exactly.

I think the difficulty hear is that you're asking somebody to basically get off his drug and what I think you're struggling with is that you feel like, well, I can tell him to you quit the drugs, but if he's not ready, it's still an addiction, and he's still going to find a way to you know.

And so that's the conversation.

It's nice that you told him about your experience because it's very relatable, but at the same time, it wasn't a direct request.

You're almost trying to be his therapist, like, let me give you all these resources, I mean to all these ways.

To do it.

But but like you said in your letter, he has to want to do it.

When people are addicted to something, there's a whole process, these stages of change and readiness, and he may really really enjoy your relationship, but he may also still be tied to this addiction.

It's easy to give up the dog.

By the way, I'm not saying that he's not going to experience some loss giving up the dog, but she will find a way to insinuate herself into his life.

That's a dog or no dog.

So I don't think he's worried that she's going to disappear if he gives back the dog.

Oh no, it's the friendship and friendship we're using that term very loosely.

Yeah, Amy, how close has he come to admitting, one way or the other that it is a drug, that she is addictive, that he is vulnerable to her.

Never, I mean, I just associate the pattern the behavior.

I feel like we have these cathartic experience.

Like I've said, he does this all the time.

He'll he'll really reflect on a moment, He's like, Wow, something I love about us and what we do.

But a lot of times he'll he'll compliment it with an explanation or comparison of why that wasn't working in the other relationship.

And I'm really kind of tired of hearing it.

I need this person to just not be mentioned in this relationship again.

No, but that is that that is the thing, right, because if he just said, Wow, it's so great with you, I have such a great time, I feel so great with you.

But I feel so great with you, and I didn't feel that way with the drug.

And you know, you also are conversations, so this and this and that conversations with the drug weren't like that.

It's not nice that I'm called into the drug, but just through reference, I love it.

But I can certainly understand, like, can we just keep it about me?

Please?

And you say she keeps insinuating herself, but she does.

But he's doing the insinuating of her.

And I'm not sure that he's aware of how much this is embedded in so much text and subtext.

But she lives inside him in so many ways.

So if he's making those comparisons, that means that a lot of the time she's sitting there on his shoulder and he's making those comparisons.

There's so many parallels between your relationship with your ex, your recurrent relationship with this boyfriend, and his relationship with his drug.

I think at the heart of all of this is that we think that if we give an ultimatum that somehow right, that that's going to change the way the person feels, it might change the way they behave.

But I think the big question is what does it mean to be loved and what does it mean to love?

And I think there's a lot of confusion when there's that addictive aspect to a relationship.

Have you thought through how the handoff goes because he will have to see her, had any conversations with him, or have you thought through how that handoff of the dog should go?

You know, I've thought about whether I should be there, whether I shouldn't be there.

Some days I want to be there because I want her to see me, and then other days I think, you know what, You're a mature adult, and if you want to be in this relationship, I trust that you're going to handle this correctly.

Yeah.

Yeah, I'm not really sure.

To be honest with you.

When we talk about that question of his friendship with her, does he always default to you and say what do you think I should do or does he have any thoughts of his own?

What's funny is he separates the two.

He says, we didn't work as a relationship, so now we're friends.

But then when maybe if we have a discussion over the dog, he'll say, yeah, okay, I see that is coming in between us.

So he's never said I see this makes you really uncomfortable, and so I'll set a boundary with this woman.

He has, And the boundary is he doesn't reach out, he doesn't send her photos of the dog.

That's a boundary that she doesn't know about.

Correct, Okay, so you know what I don't know.

I know that he told her he's seen someone.

Do you know what her reaction was to his telling her that he's sing someone?

He said that she was happy for him, and he has said he's like, you know what, if she met someone, I would be happy for her.

I think part of the reason that it's hard to trust him is because I don't know that he tells himself the truth, because he makes these comparisons constantly around what this relationship is like compared to what wasn't working at the other relationship, almost as a way to help him not go back to the drug, like to almost talk himself through, Wait, this is really good, don't screw this up.

I'm really enjoying this.

Yeah, he spoke to a sister about me and she was really excited, really happy, and that was her reaction, like, don't mess this up, and he got a little annoyed.

So I think the problem with this question of honesty is that I don't know that he's ready to be honest with himself.

So it's going to be hard to be honest with you too.

So we have some advice for you haven't yet taken a clear stand, And in part we think because it puts him to the test, puts his intentions and his love for you to the test, and there's something scary about that, and so you're hoping it will happen spontaneously.

So you're hinting you're talking about the dog rather than about her, And we think we should put it to the test in that way.

You have all kinds of good reasons for it to bother you in your history, in terms of his history, what's going on, and so you're fully justified in actually addressing it directly and head on.

And we also think that there's a very natural opportunity for you to do so.

So I'm going to pass it on to Laurie and she'll tell you exactly what we're suggesting.

Okay, Amy.

One of the things that I was thinking about was that you're thirty eight and you've been in several long term relationships that have not worked out, and you actually talked about almost as a positive thing, that you stay the course you stay in there in these relationships, Right, it's a lot of time.

It's a lot of time, and.

So we want to make sure that you're not going to spend two or three years in a relationship with something that doesn't work, so that you can find out more about that now earlier on, and if it's not going to work, then you can find somebody who's more pro bre it for you.

And if it is going to work, then great.

Yeah.

And so instead of talking about it in terms of an ultimatum, we're talking more about what would happen if you went to him and said, if you've had a very on again, off again, volatile, complicated relationship with this person.

She comes up a lot in our conversations.

I get compared to her a lot.

I know you have a lot of feelings there still.

I know you say you're friends, but it just makes me feel like you're not as present with me and it brings up some trust issues with me as well.

And so what I would like for me in this relationship is for you to write to her before the dog is returned and to let her know that you're in a new relationship.

You really want to focus on that new relationship and that you can't be in contact with her, so that she knows that before she sees you to return the dog.

And then when the dog is returned, I would like to be there so that I feel comfortable with whatever that interaction is, because I do want to trust you, but the truth is I don't totally trust you yet.

That's just because of your history and because I know what it's like to have this kind of addiction to a person, and so I would feel more comfortable being there.

Now you're not saying to him and then I will break up with you if you don't do this.

You're saying, this is what I need, and I'm letting you know what I need, and you're going to see how responsive he is to your needs, and you'll say to him I want you to let me know before the dog is returned whether this is something that you've decided to do or you've decided not to do.

Or rather, I want you to let me know before the dog is returned whether you're willing to write that letter and whether you can do it before the dog is returned.

Okay, so that she has the heads up, so she understands that the receiving of her dog back is also the ending of the friendship.

And then Amy, the important part is you're not saying and then I will leave.

What you're saying is this is what I need and I'm being very clear about my needs in this relationship.

Then it is not.

His decision, but it is your decision, Amy, about what to do if he chooses to ignore your needs, and you can make whatever choice you want, but I hope that it's not going to take two years or three years for you to make that choice.

You would love for you to tell us about how that conversation went, how and when he told you what his decision was, whether he did see the letter, and what that was like, and how the handoff of the dog went.

So a lot of different elements that we would love to hear about all of them.

Got it?

Okay?

Well, thank you Amy, thank you, thank you.

Guess we're very excited to hear how it goes, so am I okay, we look forward to hearing back from you.

Thanks so much, Guy and Laurie appreciate it.

Take care, Bye, bye bye.

So I really like talking to Amy, and I'm excited to hear what she does.

I think the one thing that she's going to have to grapple with is getting over the hump of and what if I lose the relationship, which is hard to do, especially during COVID.

But I'm very excited to hear how that conversation goes and what that shows her not so much about him, but about herself and her ability to really speak up in a relationship.

And I think having the experience of doing that will really surf are going forward, whether it's with this guy or not.

This is dear Therapist, and we'll be back after a short break.

I'm Laurie Gottlieb and I'm Guy Wench, and you're listening to deotherapists.

So, Guy, we heard back from Amy.

Oh, let's hear what you had to say, because she had a lot to do.

Hi, Laurie Guy.

I just wanted to follow up with my homework.

My plan was to talk with him in person about the letter and why I felt he needed to write it and why it was important.

But I hadn't had the opportunity to see him because of work.

And on Monday evening, the ex wrote and said, Hey, I'm coming into town and I'm leaving Wednesday.

He said, perfect, will you come and get the dog on Tuesday.

I'll leave all of the dog's things by the door, and he said, let yourself in.

I didn't know that she still had a key.

I knew nothing about this yet, but we had plans to see each other Tuesday evening.

So on Tuesday evening, when he came to see me, that's when this all came to.

Like Wednesday morning, I received a text message from him and said the dog is gone.

But you're not going to believe what happened.

I thought to myself, Oh, try me, so he said.

Tuesday evening he went home, the dog was still there.

He contacted her and said, what happened?

Why didn't you come and get the dog?

She made an excuse and said, listen, I'm really busy.

I'm trying to pack up the apartment, and I'm leaving tomorrow morning, so I really don't have time to come and get the dog.

By now.

It was eleven o'clock at night.

He said, I'm coming to drop off the dog.

He got in his car, went and dropped off the dog.

She basically had no plans to come and get it.

He did tell me that he was a little concerned because he cares for the dog, so he said, hey, what are you going to do with the dog.

She just seemed to be very disinterested in who kept the dog or the dog's well being.

She was angry that he returned the dog, so she said to him, well, you were Plan A, so now I'm moving to Plan B.

My ex husband has decided to take the dog, and then Plan C was to have another ex partner take the dog.

I think it was what he needed to hear to be like, I've just been used.

I felt like he had just a moment of clarity.

He looked relieved, like this weight was lifted off his shoulders.

I felt relieved about how everything transpired, but I still felt like I had to talk about the letter, and things got a little bit uncomfortable.

I'm not going to lie.

It was a really difficult conversation.

He said, well, I never expected this from you.

I never thought that you would be the person that would ask me to end a friendship.

I said, look, I need you to understand why this is important to me.

I feel like this is a risk for me if you're not clear in that this person is no longer a part of your life, because I don't want to find out six months down the road that you do, in fact want to be with this person.

He listened, he heard me out, He understood, and he said, I understand.

I'm going to write the letter.

He wrote a letter, He did it, he sent it, and he told me that he didn't hear back from her, and he said that if he did hear back from her, he would he would let me know.

So that's what happened.

So I guess we will see where this takes us.

I think this really bodes well for them because when she went to him and told him how she felt, even if the sequence of events didn't happen as she had planned, when the ex girlfriend did not pick up the dog, he made a bold move.

He went and drove the dog to her.

He said, I'm not going to take care of your dog anymore.

And I thought that was a real show of support for how she was feeling.

And then, of course when she asked for the letter, he ended up sending that letter.

And so I think this is a really good start to establishing trust around this issue.

I agree.

I think this was great for Amy because this was clearly uncomfortable for her to do.

I hope she told him that she appreciated what he did, that it was meaningful to her because he did quite a bunch of stuff, and she really advocated for herself.

She stood up for herself.

She was clear with herself and with him about what she needed.

And I think that he got something out of this too, which is he got some clarity when he saw when he wasn't going to take the dog, that he was just one of many who was being asked to.

Do this thing for her.

So I think there was a moment of clarity for him that maybe he harbored this fantasy that he was still special to her and now he was saying, wait a minute, I'm seeing who I am to her much more clearly.

And how loyal she is to people, including dogs.

Yeah, I think they're both going to benefit It really bodes well for a couple when you can go to somebody and say here's something that I'm uncomfortable with and that the person is responsive to you.

It also establishes a precedent for them that when something is uncomfortable, we're going to raise it, we're going to talk about it, and we're going to resolve It.

Is a great precedent to take forward into a relationship.

That brings us to the end of our show for this week.

Thank you so much for listening.

You can follow us both online.

I'm at Lorigottlieb dot com and you can follow me on Twitter at Lorigottlieb one or on Instagram at Lorigottlieb Underscore Author.

And I'm at Guywinch dot com.

I'm on Twitter and on Instagram at Guywinch.

If you have a dilemma you'd like to discuss with us, big or small, email us at Lorianguy at iHeartMedia dot com.

Our executive producer is Christopher Hasiotis.

We're produced and edited by Mike Johns.

Special thanks to Samuel Benefield and to our podcast Fairy Godmother Katie Couric and Next Time on Dear Therapists An adopted woman forms a close relationship with her biological father, but then a DNA test reveals a shocking surprise.

Growing up, it was super important to me to have the answers as to who my logical parents were, so it was pretty devastating when the person who was supposed to be my father wasn't my father and I had another father there somewhere.

Dear Therapist is a production of iHeartRadio.