[SPEAKER_00]: Every parent has done it, we're out with our kids having a good time and keeping an eye on them.

[SPEAKER_00]: We turn our heads for a second-order food or answer a question, and when we turn around, our kids are still there enjoying themselves.

[SPEAKER_00]: But deep down, we all have the same fear that we'll look back and our child will be gone.

[SPEAKER_00]: On January 23, 1999, Theresa English lived every parent's worst nightmare.

[SPEAKER_00]: That evening, she was with the dozen family members at a bowling alley, and her two-year-old daughter, Tika Lewis, was happily playing on a car racing game.

[SPEAKER_00]: Theresa was distracted for just an instant, and her entire world fell apart.

[SPEAKER_00]: It wouldn't be until later that the family would find out that Tika wasn't the first child to be harmed at the new frontier lanes bowling alley, and Tacoma, Washington.

[SPEAKER_00]: There was at least one predator out there and Tika's family have been trying to find both him and Tika for over 20 years.

[SPEAKER_00]: When a person goes missing, there's a special kind of pain in the not knowing.

[SPEAKER_00]: I want to tell you the stories of those who never came home.

[SPEAKER_00]: Today, I want to tell you the story of Tika Lewis.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm Kona Gallagher.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm Ethan Flick.

[SPEAKER_00]: And this is, and then they were gone.

[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome back everyone.

[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome back.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, we certainly didn't intend on having two cases in a row and hoping bowling out is.

[SPEAKER_01]: I kind of wanted to bring that up.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like why are we now the cereal bowling alley?

[SPEAKER_00]: Disappearance podcast now.

[SPEAKER_00]: It just happens to be that and it's especially scary because we've been going to our bowling alley a lot.

[SPEAKER_00]: A lot.

[SPEAKER_00]: sticking our kids in the arcade, which is exactly what was happening here.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so it's just, it's a, I don't know, it's amazing.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like how quickly things can happen.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's cases like this, the worst case scenario, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: You turn your head and your child's gone that make everybody so paranoid about stranger danger.

[SPEAKER_00]: But it's, you know, these cases are so exceedingly rare.

[SPEAKER_01]: right, but it's like you said, it strikes to the very heart of the fear of losing a child.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like it is the absolute worst case scenario of how your child goes missing.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it is.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I mean, they're rare, but it's it's the stuff that gets glorified, not glorified, but like put out in media and it's parents worst nightmare.

[SPEAKER_01]: These are the cases that stick with you.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, absolutely.

[SPEAKER_00]: And she was so little.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, and what's even more wild is a unlike our Boeing alley.

[SPEAKER_00]: This one had security.

[SPEAKER_01]: Really.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: So of course we'll be getting into all of that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because immediately I'm like, okay, security guards.

[SPEAKER_01]: I, we need to talk to them.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Because like, if they have security and there's multiple abductions at this Boeing alley.

[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't say multiple abductions, multiple incidents.

[SPEAKER_01]: All right.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we'll get into it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: But for now, let's get into the story of Tika Lewis.

[SPEAKER_00]: Tika Latrice Lewis was born on July 4, 1996, to Teresa English and Robert Lewis.

[SPEAKER_00]: Tika was Teresa's fourth child, and Teresa would go on to give birth to another baby when Tika was about a year old, bringing the total to five.

[SPEAKER_00]: So Tika is mixed race, her father's black and her mother is white and Native American.

[SPEAKER_00]: Her family is part of the Chippewa tribe in Washington State, making Tika another on the long list of missing or murdered indigenous people.

[SPEAKER_00]: Her family describes Tika as being a mature toddler.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, she could be very self-sufficient, but she was also a modest girl.

[SPEAKER_00]: She rarely left Teresa's side and often slept with her in her bed at night, which, you know, sounds familiar.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, very familiar.

[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, she was only two, but I get with her saying about her being mature, because she had three-old older siblings.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: And like, that does make you kind of act.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, very much.

[SPEAKER_00]: more grown than you are, you know, but she was still only a toddler.

[SPEAKER_00]: Tegas' father Robert was involved in her life to do his own life challenges.

[SPEAKER_00]: He had been in an out of trouble with the law for years, and at the time of his daughter's disappearance in 1999, he was incarcerated for first-degree theft.

[SPEAKER_00]: I believe at this point, he had served like one year of a four-year sentence, something along those lines.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, and yes, he does get rolled out very quickly.

[SPEAKER_00]: Of course, Felice, immediately we went to go talk to him, you know, because it's not like you couldn't have done something or orchestrated something from behind bars, but yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: But despite of the lack of, you know, a father in her life to get plenty of family around, they all loved spending time together when they were able, which is what brought them to new frontier lanes on the evening of January 23rd.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was a cold rainy night in Washington State.

[SPEAKER_00]: The temperature was about 38 degrees Fahrenheit as Theresa and her boyfriend arrived with her children around 830 p.m.

[SPEAKER_00]: They were joined by about half a dozen other family members and the group rented land seven and eight in the bowling alley.

[SPEAKER_00]: New Frontier Lane's was a popular hangout in Tacoma and that night was late night so it was extra busy.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was so busy in fact that the Boeing Alley often hired on-site security.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now this particular night, an off-duty Tacoma police officer held that position.

[SPEAKER_00]: New Frontier's layout was typical of Boeing Alley's at the time, you know, I'm sure it was built in like the [SPEAKER_00]: and they had all the lanes, of course, and then a snack bar area, and then a separate area in the back with arcade games.

[SPEAKER_00]: And the children, you know, not just Theresa's children, like all of the children in the bowling alley, would typically bounce back and forth between the lanes that the family occupied and the video game area.

[SPEAKER_00]: And when I see video game area, this is not a separate room, this is not really a separate area, it's just like a collection of, you know, I think probably half a dozen or so video games just off on kind of in the corner by the door.

[SPEAKER_00]: So around 1015pm, that's what Tika was doing.

[SPEAKER_00]: She went over to cruise in world, the ubiquitous car racing game that kids love because it has a [SPEAKER_00]: So, even if you're not actually playing the game, like it's still fun to sit on an emperor tent.

[SPEAKER_01]: One quick question, you said they were off the video games were off in the corner by the door.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_01]: Are we sure that they are actually by the door?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, so I'll try to find the picture or the diagram and put on the website, but yeah, there was a diagram of the bowling alley in one of the newspaper articles and it did show that the video games were close to the exit or at least one of the exits because I, you know, there are multiple sure just ease of access to that location.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, definitely.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now, Theresa, of course, new Tika was over playing on that game and she was keeping an eye on her along with other family members.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was one of the situations where it's like, okay, Tika's over here.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm watching her when it's my turn to bull you keep an eye on her type of situation.

[SPEAKER_00]: But at one point, Theresa turned away to attend to one of her other kids and when she looked back, her daughter was gone.

[SPEAKER_01]: And this is right around 1015.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: And at this point Teresa does what any parent would in that situation.

[SPEAKER_00]: She alerted her family and they began to search inside of the bowling alley.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, she went into the restroom and one of her other relatives was in their changing like her baby's diaper and so she went in and she's like, did you see Tika?

[SPEAKER_00]: She said, no.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, they're looking everywhere.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're asking other patrons if they'd seen her.

[SPEAKER_00]: In terms of even when outside in the parking lot, you know, because again, it was close to the doors.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're like, maybe she wandered out, but it was just so fast.

[SPEAKER_00]: When their frantic search failed to turn up the little girl, they went to the off-duty police officer who was the security guard there that night.

[SPEAKER_00]: Again, the exact timeline of like how long each portion of this took is very tough to figure out.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, regardless, it's within the same hour, let's say.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we're talking, I mean, I think they were searching for like 10 minutes.

[SPEAKER_00]: And when they couldn't find her after 10, 15 minutes, that's when they...

Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, it's a security car.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so, the security guard apparently still got the exits and prevented anyone from leaving.

[SPEAKER_00]: He was also able to make an announcement over the intercom system and check in the employee only areas, but they still couldn't find Tika so they called the police.

[SPEAKER_01]: Good job on his part.

[SPEAKER_00]: One of the things, the timing of all this, like how long all of this took will come up a little bit later.

[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, it does sound like, you know, that is basically what you would want him to be doing, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, Chuck E.

Cheese is used to have a button that they would hit and like see a everything off.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, really?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think that they pay attention anymore post-pandemic or like it's like it's like it's like a free for all you can really.

[SPEAKER_01]: Anybody can come in and take as many kids as they want.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: But like legitimately, I mean, especially in the 90s, like that was a big thing where like the employees would hit a button and like literal gates would [SPEAKER_00]: there was like all episode of CSI about it okay police arrived quickly but they were operating under the assumption that the toddler had wandered off which you know in their defense like that is the most likely scenario [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, especially if the video game was close to an exit as it seems like they exactly.

[SPEAKER_00]: Given the cold weather and the late hour, however, they still did act with urgency.

[SPEAKER_00]: They searched a one and a half mile radius around the bowling alley's location at 4702's Center Street.

[SPEAKER_00]: The Pierce County Sheriff's Department organized about three dozen searching rescue volunteers, some with dogs, and sent them out.

[SPEAKER_00]: and this basically I mean they searched you know the immediate area right away I don't know exactly when the you know if they like broke to go to sleep or whatever but I do know that I mean they there was a 15 hour search so I think if they did stop they resumed very early the next morning Sunday morning [SPEAKER_00]: and searched until dusk the next day, basically.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, by Sunday morning, the FBI was involved with more agents continuing to join as the day stretched on.

[SPEAKER_00]: Helicopters were called in, but no trace of the toddler was found.

[SPEAKER_00]: By 5 p.m.

on Sunday, the next day, law enforcement officials announced that they believed Tika Lewis had been abducted.

[SPEAKER_00]: And again, this is the same thing we talked about with Orna and Orson Blast.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, when you have a child this little, if they simply wander off, there's always so far they can physically go.

[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: So if you don't find them in that very small area, you know that there's a third party involved.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and this is something that we've talked about before with how you and I disagree with the uh, with each other, but with the rules around Amber alerts and when they can and can't be issued.

[SPEAKER_01]: The thought process behind it is you don't want to desensitize people to Amber alerts, so you limit the amount that you put out and leave them only to cases where you know an [SPEAKER_01]: But an amber alert, especially when you're talking about somebody so little, should be issued in my opinion right away, regardless of whether there is any evidence of an abduction or not, because the more eyes you have looking out for a two-year-old, the better.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, exactly, um, now in their defense, Amber Alerts did not exist yet in 1999 in Washington State.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I did fact check myself there and I was right.

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, the Washington State Amber Alert Plan was authorized in 2003.

[SPEAKER_01]: Damn, it just seems really late to me.

[SPEAKER_00]: No, I know.

[SPEAKER_00]: But yes, so that wasn't even an option in this case.

[SPEAKER_00]: And the general, I mean, of course, the people who were at the bowling alley and who lived nearby were aware of something very early on because they were knocking on doors and interviewing people.

[SPEAKER_00]: But the general public in Tacoma didn't really begin to find out anything until Monday.

[SPEAKER_01]: so like a full day and a half.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe two days depending on when on Monday.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I didn't, it didn't hit the new start to hit the news until Monday.

[SPEAKER_00]: So on Monday, 32 Tacoma police officers and 11 FBI agents conducted a door to door search around the bowling alley and interviewed local sex offenders.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we get this is where they're starting to expand out in terms of the people that they're interviewing.

[SPEAKER_00]: So they've already interviewed the patrons and the employees at the bowling alley.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, they've started talking to the family obviously, but now they're expanding and looking to see who also's around.

[SPEAKER_00]: A 24 hour tip line was also set up.

[SPEAKER_00]: Theresa was given her first polygraph on Monday, and police, of course, interviewed the family, though nobody else at the time was given a polygraph.

[SPEAKER_00]: To come up, police spokesperson Ed Baker told reporters that they weren't focusing on the family of suspects, but they had to be ruled out.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no that's standard.

[SPEAKER_00]: However, to come up police wouldn't release the results of the polygraph, and Theresa told reporters that the polygraph similarly wouldn't give her any information.

[SPEAKER_00]: So she didn't actually know if she passed or not, the police weren't saying anything.

[SPEAKER_00]: She ended up taking a second polygraph later, and I assume she passed both of them because she was rolled out as a suspect.

[SPEAKER_00]: The search continued with volunteers continuing to work and handing out flyers, but investigators failed to develop any strong leads and were, of course, getting frustrated.

[SPEAKER_00]: By that point, over 120 tips had come into the tip line, but none had developed into anything substantial.

[SPEAKER_00]: They put out an appeal to the patrons who are at the bowling alley Saturday night to turn over any photos or videos that they may have taken.

[SPEAKER_00]: Tacoma police spokesperson Ed Baker said, quote, a picture can solve this case and quote.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that would actually turn out to be extremely true as we'll get into.

[SPEAKER_00]: But you know, they weren't just waiting for leads to come in.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't want to give it that impression either.

[SPEAKER_00]: They haven't completely turned this over to the public saying, all right, what do you have for us?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but at this, I mean, cases of missing persons use the public as your ally.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know, it's a two-year-old girl that's gone missing.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, put as much information out there as possible.

[SPEAKER_01]: Get as many eyes looking for as you can.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, there's no reason to hold anything back in the search for her.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, absolutely.

[SPEAKER_00]: And at this point, they certainly are not.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so like I said, they were, you know, continuing to search, it was kind of a wooded area around the bowling alley.

[SPEAKER_00]: They were like a lot of, you know, overgrown, like weeds and plants and stuff too.

[SPEAKER_00]: And there was also a pond nearby, and they dragged the pond like they were thoroughly searching the area.

[SPEAKER_00]: And on Thursday, police announced a possible lead.

[SPEAKER_00]: In their Friday, January 29th edition, the news tribune reported that during the initial search for Tika, two search dogs independently led their handlers to a bushy area across the street from the bowling alley.

[SPEAKER_00]: However, from what it sounds like nothing was found at the time.

[SPEAKER_00]: But during a search on Tuesday, so three days later, a rolled up ball of men's clothing was found in those same bushes.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it wasn't found at the initial search.

[SPEAKER_00]: Correct.

[SPEAKER_00]: The items recovered were a size large, boatworks brand Navy Blue Men's wool coat.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was hit length with oblong wooden buttons and a green quilted lining.

[SPEAKER_00]: The initials either I.S.

[SPEAKER_00]: or J.S.

[SPEAKER_00]: were written on the tag.

[SPEAKER_00]: They also recovered a pair of off-white size 3432 men's lead-dungary brand jeans, stained with either purple or blue ink.

[SPEAKER_00]: into new looking Columbia brand flannel shirt.

[SPEAKER_00]: The shirt was green and blue plaid over a white background with yellow highlights.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was cold and rainy on the day ticket disappeared and it continued to be so in the days following.

[SPEAKER_00]: And police told reporters that the clothing didn't have any molder mildew and did not appear to have been outside for very long.

[SPEAKER_00]: They were confident that [SPEAKER_01]: So aside from just them being in that same area where the dogs searched what makes them think that it's connected.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I mean, it's the same spot where the dogs search.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like in the same bushes where the dogs alert it.

[SPEAKER_00]: I should say.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's just it's it seemed.

[SPEAKER_01]: It just seems strange to me that somebody would go back to the scene of where the event heard just to dump their clothes if they didn't find a clothes before.

[SPEAKER_01]: It is a little odd for sure, but I'm not just counting it, it just seems odd that that that would happen, especially given that they said that the police said that it didn't look like they had the clothes had been outside for a long time.

[SPEAKER_00]: So after the clothing dried, it was combed for fibers.

[SPEAKER_00]: But the results have never been released publicly, so we don't know if anything of evidentiary value was found or not.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I can see them keeping that a secret, especially given that there's a lot of initials.

[SPEAKER_01]: I.S.

[SPEAKER_01]: or J.S.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like you don't want to tip your hand if you actually have evidence that whoever I.S.

[SPEAKER_01]: slash and or J.S.

[SPEAKER_01]: whatever is the perpetrator of some nefarious act against Tika, like I can see them keeping that information secret because that doesn't help in the search for her.

[SPEAKER_00]: No, absolutely.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so, yeah, so we don't know if there was anything on the clothes or whatever.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now, I did read one article that said those initials are consistent with the initials that a local thrift shop would put on their clothing.

[SPEAKER_00]: But it didn't make sense to me because I don't remember the shop's name off the top of my head, but it wasn't anything that was close to those initials.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?

[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't know why they would randomly put those particular initials on items that they sold.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't know.

[SPEAKER_00]: I just brought that in one source.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now police as we've been saying did jump into action very quickly with regard to Tika's disappearance.

[SPEAKER_00]: But when a missing child is not found, it's natural for the family to feel as though authorities aren't doing enough to find them, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I can't imagine how [SPEAKER_00]: powerless and helpless, you must feel, and you're looking for somebody to blame.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so yeah, like if she's not found, kids are found.

[SPEAKER_00]: They don't disappear, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: So you've got to think you're not doing something.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's something you're not doing.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that's how- [SPEAKER_00]: Teresa felt obviously so she and two of her brothers marched down to the Tacoma Police Department and demanded to speak with the chief and like this was all caught by reporters.

[SPEAKER_00]: They simply felt like not enough was being done to find Tika but you know as was explained to them when they went down there the sad fact was that more resources were being devoted to this case [SPEAKER_00]: So Teresa left the police station feeling defeated and deflated because you really couldn't place the blame there.

[SPEAKER_01]: for them to say and for it to be true that all of their resources are going towards that case.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's a lot.

[SPEAKER_01]: Tacoma is not a great area.

[SPEAKER_00]: No.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's right outside of Seattle for those that don't know.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's where the airport is.

[SPEAKER_01]: See, tack airport.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's mostly a port, a seaport.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's really crammed.

[SPEAKER_01]: right yeah it's not a great area so again for Tacoma PD to say and for it to be true that they're devoting the majority of their resources to this case that is saying a lot no it really is but yeah that also doesn't give any comfort to the family of course and it doesn't mean that [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, we're here talking about this case over two decades later, so it shouldn't be a huge spoiler alert to say that a went cold.

[SPEAKER_00]: And as the years have gone on, information has come to light that I don't know if police properly followed up on at the time.

[SPEAKER_00]: John was 17 years old in January 1999, and he was at New Frontier Wayne's Boeing with his family on the night ticket disappeared.

[SPEAKER_00]: He told reporters, quote, I had to use the restroom, so I went towards where the restrooms were.

[SPEAKER_00]: This rude guy bumped into me with this little girl, and he was white.

[SPEAKER_00]: The little girl was mixed.

[SPEAKER_00]: I just thought it was a father rushing his daughter to the restroom, and quote.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now, this incidents took out to John because the guy hit his shoulder really hard when he bumped into him and didn't say he was sorry.

[SPEAKER_00]: So he was just like, this guy's a dick, you know.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now, he doesn't say it with time, he and his family left the bowling alley, but he did say that when they left, there were police officers in the parking lot.

[SPEAKER_00]: But the officers didn't tell them what was going on or that they were looking for a missing little girl.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mentioned the security guard making the announcement over the intercom, [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm guessing that it wouldn't have been that John and his family would have left before that happened because that was before the police were called.

[SPEAKER_00]: And if the police were already there, so maybe they didn't hear it, because it was, I mean, there were like hundreds of people at this point.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, it's late night, so that's certainly a possibility.

[SPEAKER_01]: if the police are already on scene and the off duty PD security guard like head, you know, quote unquote locked it down.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: And didn't let anybody leave somebody should have been interviewing people as they were leaving.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, exactly.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that's what's so strange because it doesn't sound like they were interviewed at that time.

[SPEAKER_00]: And they were just allowed to leave.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so maybe it wasn't as locked down as it seems.

[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_00]: So John and his family just went home.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it wasn't until he was watching the news a few days later that he made the connection and realized that Tico was abducted from the bowling alley the same night he was there.

[SPEAKER_00]: And what's more, once he saw a picture of her, he realized that she was the little girl being rushed into the bathroom.

[SPEAKER_00]: And the red man was not her father.

[SPEAKER_01]: And he, this was, this was back then.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: This was, this was not him recounting it 20 plus years later.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no, this is him.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's talking to reporters for the first time, 21 years later.

[SPEAKER_00]: But no, he realized days later, like Monday, Tuesday, what had happened.

[SPEAKER_00]: John called that 24 hour tip line to tell police what he saw and they interviewed him, you know, they took him seriously, they interviewed him, but he never heard from them after that.

[SPEAKER_00]: So like for the last 20 years he had been wondering like if what he had seen was important or had anything to do with anything.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm assuming we don't know what level of interview was their sketch artist brought in anything like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: No, we don't have the details of it, just that it was one interview.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's a huge missed opportunity there.

[SPEAKER_00]: According to this article that I was rooting from 2020, it wasn't until a cold case detective detective Steven Ropelle was looking through Tika's case file 20 years later that he realized the potential significance of what John witnessed.

[SPEAKER_00]: John described the man that he saw as having a pock marked face.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now, this ring a bell for Detective Rapel.

[SPEAKER_00]: He told Fox 13 quote, about a week after Tiki's disappearance, they were filming a reenactment down at the bowling alley and someone who was standing there watching, noticed a person with a puck marked face who was also watching the reenactment.

[SPEAKER_00]: And the witness who called in thought he was acting strangely.

[SPEAKER_00]: And quote, [SPEAKER_01]: We're turning to the scene of the crime.

[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly, just getting right back to what you were saying before.

[SPEAKER_00]: The detective says that the man in question has described by both witnesses is white, five feet 11 inches tall with a husky build.

[SPEAKER_00]: He had shoulder-length curly brown hair with a thick mustache and a heavily-pock-marked face.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was also said to be wearing, I don't know if this is at the bowling alley or at the reenactment, but he was said to be wearing a blue plaid shirt and faded jeans, which is similar to the clothing found near the scene, which was a green and blue plaid shirt and off-white jeans.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think off-white jeans and very faded blue jeans could look similar in certain [SPEAKER_01]: clarifying the timeline.

[SPEAKER_01]: When was the reenactment versus when they found those clothes?

[SPEAKER_00]: So they found the clothes on the Tuesday after her disappearance.

[SPEAKER_00]: So about three days later.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: The reenactment was about a week later, I believe.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it was after I bullied.

[SPEAKER_01]: They found the clothes that did the reign I took.

[SPEAKER_00]: Although John wasn't re-interviewed back in 1999, the existence of this Pockmarked Man was reported on much earlier than when his article came out.

[SPEAKER_00]: In article marking the one-year anniversary of the abduction has a rundown of the most important evidence that police had up to this point.

[SPEAKER_00]: So this, now we're talking about an article that was released January 23rd 2000.

[SPEAKER_00]: In it, reporter Stacey Burns writes that the search for Tiga has come down to finding two men.

[SPEAKER_00]: Detective Larry Lindberg, head of the Tacoma Police Department's Missing [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if when she disappeared, but at least one year later, who is different from the cold case detective, Lynn Berg told Burns that a teenager who was at the bowling alley that night told investigators that he had seen two men hanging around the video games while Tika was playing.

[SPEAKER_00]: He also said that they seemed to be following her as she walked near the front desk door area [SPEAKER_00]: Now, this to me sounds like a different teenager than John.

[SPEAKER_01]: Right, because John ran into Pockt Mark faced man going into the bathroom or near the bathroom.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, near the bathroom, this teenager says it was two men near the video games.

[SPEAKER_00]: One of the men was believed to be in his 30s or 40s and about 511 and 200 pounds.

[SPEAKER_00]: He had brown hair, a thick mustache, a big nose, and a Pockt Mark face.

[SPEAKER_00]: The second man was also believed to be in his 30s or 40s, but was shorter, standing it around 5-9, but also weighing about 200 pounds.

[SPEAKER_00]: He had long black hair and wore dirty jeans and a gray jacket with a sports logo.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now, by this point, we're talking your waiter and I, you know, the tip came in much earlier than it, than this, but this is the first time.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is the first actual mention I could find of it in the media.

[SPEAKER_00]: A different witness had also come forward with a description of a car that she had seen speeding out of the new frontier lanes parking lot [SPEAKER_00]: She didn't see who was in the car, so it's not known if it could have been one or both of these men, but she described the vehicle as a maroon 4-door 1980s or early 1990s Pontiac Grand Am with a spoiler on the back intended windows.

[SPEAKER_00]: Apparently, there were a lot of those in the area at the time.

[SPEAKER_00]: Police said that it was basically a dead end, it was a needle in a haystack, and they were never able to locate the car or its owner.

[SPEAKER_01]: That is the most white trashed parking car ever.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, Bonnie, I'd grind them.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: did it have T-thops, like that would make it even worse.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I know apparently not just a spoiler and tinted windows.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was at this point in my research that I noticed something interesting about this case that probably happens in a lot of these unsolved cases that span decades.

[SPEAKER_00]: With so many different people working on this, both on the investigation side and on the media side, [SPEAKER_00]: information gets lost.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we've already kind of seen this with a man with the Pock Bart face.

[SPEAKER_00]: Detective Ropelle came across John's tip about bumping into him on the way to the bathroom and connected it to that tip from the news crew, both of which were given you know within days of Tika's disappearance.

[SPEAKER_00]: But that information doesn't appear to have been connected to what the former investigator on this case told reporters back in January 2000 about the other teenager who saw two men [SPEAKER_00]: including one with the Pock Mark to face hanging out near the video games.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I mean, this is 20 years apart, but I mean, I am, again, just a person with a newspaper's dot com subscription.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not anybody that article from 2020 makes no mention of this other teenager makes no mention of this second man doesn't say like, hey, they're actually two different kids that night [SPEAKER_00]: a man with a pocket mark to face and a big nose and a mustache.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that's terrifying to me, you know, the fact that there could potentially be a second suspect who has not been thought of in over 20 years.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, in fact, that box 13 article from 2020, where John was interviewed, has the headline, quote, Tika Lewis, 21 years later, witness account could be key to solving case of missing girl, and quote.

[SPEAKER_01]: except that the police already knew about that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: But then this cold case detective comes 20 years later as they holy shit.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's a guy with Pockmarks on his face.

[SPEAKER_00]: The article makes no mention of the Pockmarks man already being a person of interest.

[SPEAKER_00]: Similarly, an article from January of this year, 2023, talks about the man's clothing, the blue flannel shirt and jeans, but also says, quote, detectives had not previously released information about the man's clothing.

[SPEAKER_00]: which they had.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was in that 2000 article.

[SPEAKER_00]: A few lines later, it talks about the Pontiac Grand Dam that was seen and says, quote, in December, meaning December of 2019, to come a police revealed a description of a car scene leaving the bowling alley that night.

[SPEAKER_00]: A maroon or dark colored Pontiac Grand Dam, perhaps a late 1980s or early 1990s model, leaving the parking lot at a high rate of speed and quote.

[SPEAKER_00]: that was not revealed in December of 2019.

[SPEAKER_00]: That was revealed at the latest January of 2000.

[SPEAKER_00]: In both the article from December that that quote references and the ones written this past January of 2023, there is no mention of the second man seen with the Pockmarked Man.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now, what I can't determine again as just a random person with a newspaper dot com account, [SPEAKER_00]: is if this is because the second man was ruled out in some way and is no longer relevant to this case, or if this piece of information has gotten lost in the intervening years.

[SPEAKER_00]: And if the second is true, then what else?

[SPEAKER_00]: What else has gotten lost?

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, there's no way that they could have ruled the person out.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's just a description of somebody.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like they can't rule that out.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it does fall to the side of either information being lost or information being categorized as less important.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right, but I mean, the park marked man, he's coming up even more.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so if somebody truly was with him that night, that is extremely important.

[SPEAKER_01]: It is, I will say this, just in the defense of the detective on the case at the time.

[SPEAKER_00]: Back in 1999.

[SPEAKER_01]: Correct.

[SPEAKER_01]: Versus detective repel.

[SPEAKER_01]: Who's the correct case?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, 2020.

[SPEAKER_01]: The one benefit that a cold case detective has versus the detective on scene at the time is timing.

[SPEAKER_01]: The cold case detective has all the information gathered right in front of him.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's no rush.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, for sure.

[SPEAKER_00]: And he already has the established timeline.

[SPEAKER_01]: And right now they'll go through all the evidence and rework everything.

[SPEAKER_01]: But there's no rush there.

[SPEAKER_00]: No, of course.

[SPEAKER_01]: Versus the detective on scene at the time, one of the things when a new case like this is coming on, there's a flood of information coming.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it gets delegated.

[SPEAKER_01]: right to other officers to figure out what's important and what's not to then bring it up to this lead detective probably not the best model [SPEAKER_00]: But one person can't do it all.

[SPEAKER_01]: No, no.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I feel as though in a missing person's case, there should probably be a little bit more oversight from a lead detective as far as what information gets passed on.

[SPEAKER_01]: Instead of no offense against officers on the ground, uniform guys, they're interviewing people.

[SPEAKER_01]: They're, they are the ones determining whether that information is good to go up or not.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think it's tough because they don't have all the context either, you know, like it usually it's just bodies, it's like, okay, you're on shift like you're gonna handle this, you're gonna like you're gonna be the guy right now, who's listening to the tips on the tip line, and then tomorrow it's a different guy.

[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: And you can brief them as much as you want, but it's not the same people having the same firsthand information.

[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: Which is where I think, and I know it's easy to say this and that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, we are being such a Monday morning quarterback index right now.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, that's kind of the, what this podcast is honestly.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: And what we have seen is, and we have brought this up many times, is there's no training on missing persons cases.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's none.

[SPEAKER_01]: So every police department does different, differently, the FBI does each case differently.

[SPEAKER_00]: Of course.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it was the Tacoma Police Department has a missing person's division, which not.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's huge.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: So they're already like ahead of also terrifying that they, that enough people go missing and Tacoma Washington that they actually have a division for it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, watch, it's a true crime trope.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, don't ever go to Washington [SPEAKER_00]: so many people go missing there and honestly it is a port town like you said like there's a lot of trafficking there are a lot of it's a it's a it's a it's a it's a it's a it's a it's a it's a yeah yeah sorry i the the Washington state board of tourism is not going to be sponsored and not going door searcher now i apologize i've never even been to Washington state you think i married their one time but got to bring that up [SPEAKER_00]: guardlets.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sorry, Washington.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure there are parts that are lovely.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's where Twilight was, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: They have vampires, too.

[SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, when I was researching this case, I was getting frustrated because I kept reading different write-ups that mentioned nearby incidents that were not only similar to this one, but could have been perpetrated by the same man.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now, it was frustrating, though, is that I read all of these sources, but I could never find the original source of this information.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, like, for instance, on one of her missing persons pages, there was information about these other incidents, but it doesn't say, like, where they got that information.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, it was just very frustrating for me.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I think I was able to find someone of an answer.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now, it does sound as though the information about these three incidents that I'm going to talk about was called in during the initial investigation into Tika's disappearance.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, whether it came through the tip line or through, I think one of them came from employee interviews at the bowling alley.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think this was all known close to the beginning, but it wasn't in any of the news articles [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't know what was or wasn't done with this information in 1999.

[SPEAKER_00]: The first actual mention of it I can find in the media was from a 2012 article about Tika's case.

[SPEAKER_00]: At this time, Detective Lindsay Wade was in charge of the case.

[SPEAKER_00]: So now we're talking about like a whole third detective.

[SPEAKER_01]: Detective.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: And she was another like cold case detective, because again, we're talking 13 years later.

[SPEAKER_00]: So like all cold case detectives, she was going back through the over 700 tips that had been called in in the previous, you know, 13 years and three in particular caught her eye.

[SPEAKER_00]: They were all incidents involving children getting approached and or assaulted by a stranger in and around new frontier lanes.

[SPEAKER_01]: In the bowling early.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, two of the incidents were in the bowling alley one was nearby.

[SPEAKER_00]: And this part is tough to talk about.

[SPEAKER_00]: On November 29th, 1998, just under two months before Tika's abduction, [SPEAKER_00]: A four-year-old boy and his father were at New Frontier Lanes.

[SPEAKER_00]: His father was in a bowling league, and while he bodes the little boy when over to the arcade area.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, Jesus.

[SPEAKER_00]: Later, another patron found the boy lying down on the floor in a bathroom stall.

[SPEAKER_00]: He had been sexually assaulted.

[SPEAKER_00]: The suspect was said to have been a white man with brown curly hair and a beard.

[SPEAKER_00]: He was possibly wearing a baseball cap with word husky on it.

[SPEAKER_01]: So not necessarily fitting the pock, marked face, man.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, that man had brown curly hair in a mustache.

[SPEAKER_00]: This guy had a beard, so he may, you know, if he was the pock marked face man, you might not have been able to tell.

[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: Unlike the night of Tika's disappearance, the security guards, and it does sound like there were two, on duty were not off duty police officers.

[SPEAKER_00]: They were just guys who are hired to be security guards.

[SPEAKER_00]: So the father reported these salt to the guards and assumed that they would call the police, but they didn't.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so did the father end up calling the police?

[SPEAKER_00]: Well yes, so the father found this out the next morning when he called the police to follow up.

[SPEAKER_00]: because, you know, I guess the police like never came to talk to him or whatever, so he called them and they said, yeah, no, no, what are you talking about?

[SPEAKER_00]: So then he reported the crime himself.

[SPEAKER_00]: The security guards said, and I don't know when they said this were to whom, that they recognized the suspect as somebody who had been in the bowling alley before, but that they didn't know his name.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, what the hell?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no, I know.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is getting, it's just going to get louder.

[SPEAKER_00]: All right, so Detective Wade, you know, who's looking at this thing said this guy could have been a regular at the bowling alley, but I don't know what ever happened with this case to that, you know, with that poor kid, like, I mean, [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't know if the investigation into this assault of the small child went anywhere, but you know, this was an incident that happened at the bowling alley two months prior to Tika's disappearance and they tried to just sweep it under the rug.

[SPEAKER_01]: my brain is going to million miles an hour.

[SPEAKER_01]: Why didn't the security guards report it?

[SPEAKER_01]: Why didn't the father call the police that night?

[SPEAKER_01]: Like that night when the police never showed up to interview anybody?

[SPEAKER_01]: If this person was recognized as a regular, why wasn't there follow up on any of this?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I have no idea because it doesn't sound like the other security guards necessarily knew about this Like the ones who weren't working that night or the employees or it doesn't sound like anybody was like, Oh, hey, we need to keep an eye out for this guy in case it comes back right regular to what extent is he a league boulder does he show up sporadic sporadic Yeah, like if he's a league boulder that's somebody that you can just fucking show up on league day as a police officer and be like, hey [SPEAKER_00]: right.

[SPEAKER_00]: So then, so this is two months prior, now we're getting into a few weeks prior to Tika's disappearance.

[SPEAKER_00]: Another family was Boeing at New Frontier Lane's.

[SPEAKER_00]: This time it was a six-year-old boy who was playing in the arcade area while his family boulded.

[SPEAKER_00]: His mother was keeping an eye on him, and when she looked over, she saw a white man with brown hair kneeling down and talking to her son.

[SPEAKER_00]: He was even holding on to the boy's hand.

[SPEAKER_00]: When she and others rushed over to confront the man, she heard him tell someone who had like gotten their first that he was the little boy's father.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god.

[SPEAKER_00]: They got security and the man was ascorded out.

[SPEAKER_00]: Come on.

[SPEAKER_00]: I know.

[SPEAKER_00]: Again, the mother assumed that security had called to come up police, but once again, they did not.

[SPEAKER_00]: And they just let this guy go.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, oh my god, this is so frustrating.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: And if very well could have been the same man.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, yes, a white man with brown hair, like not even if it wasn't the same man.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like why would you just avoid somebody off your off the property thinking like, oh, this fucking dude that's like exhibiting predatory behaviors, just let him go.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, just 80s and some like we don't need that on our property.

[SPEAKER_01]: Let them do that somewhere else.

[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: No, you fucking call the police.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: No, I don't know.

[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely wild.

[SPEAKER_00]: The third incident took place just hours before Tika's abduction.

[SPEAKER_00]: A father and his two children were at a park less than a mile away from the bowling alley.

[SPEAKER_00]: While they were there, the father saw a white man with brown hair and a baseball cap by the bathrooms.

[SPEAKER_00]: He appeared to be motioning for his children to come inside the bathroom with him.

[SPEAKER_00]: Jesus.

[SPEAKER_00]: The father rushed over and chased the man off.

[SPEAKER_00]: According to the father, the man got into a [SPEAKER_01]: So different color, but the incident at the with Tika it was at night.

[SPEAKER_01]: So the color could have been off because it was just dark.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and in terms of the witness who saw the car at the bowling alley that night, most things that I've read say that they believe do is maroon, but I have read some reports saying it was maroon or purple.

[SPEAKER_00]: And if we're talking more purple, purple and blue, yeah, right.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, especially when one is at night, right.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: So the dad didn't call the police at the time.

[SPEAKER_00]: He was like, I chased this guy off.

[SPEAKER_00]: He left.

[SPEAKER_00]: But once news broke about Tika's disappearance, he called it into the tip line.

[SPEAKER_00]: So the man or men involved in these three incidents remains unknown.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, we obviously can't say for sure whether they're related to Tika's disappearance or if they're related to each other or any of it.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's enough similarities, you know, obviously this is hindsight, but there's enough similarities between all of them that it's almost got to be the same guy.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, it has been said that witnesses told police that one or more of these men had a pocket mark to face, but I was not able to find that in any of the original source material, so I think that that [SPEAKER_00]: might have been kind of added along the way.

[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, so I don't have any confirmation regarding that.

[SPEAKER_00]: But let's get back to the pocket mark to man.

[SPEAKER_00]: This part, I kind of don't understand.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think I figured it out.

[SPEAKER_00]: But so as I mentioned earlier, police put out a call back in 2020 for help identifying this man.

[SPEAKER_00]: In a report from local NBC affiliate King Five, Teresa says that a few months prior to this call for help, you know, by the police, they showed her a picture of the man to see if she recognized him.

[SPEAKER_01]: a picture.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: Picture but not a photo.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that's what I was confused.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like if they don't know who this guy is.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like I don't have a picture.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think that it was a picture not a photo and it was like a composite based on witness descriptions.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's.

[SPEAKER_00]: what I have to guess.

[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't even bother to mention this because it should probably go without saying, yeah, the surveillance video at the bowling alley was not working, then I'd have tickets disappear and it's because it never was.

[SPEAKER_00]: So like I don't think it was a video still or anything like that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Right, but they did ask witnesses if anybody had taken a picture.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I might.

[SPEAKER_01]: So maybe they do have a picture of a possible [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, they could.

[SPEAKER_00]: I truly don't know.

[SPEAKER_00]: But whatever image she was shown, it was clear enough that she recognized him.

[SPEAKER_01]: So we got him.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is where it gets even weirder.

[SPEAKER_00]: So she didn't recognize them as like somebody she knew, but she recognized them as somebody that she had seen at the bowling alley and it was like, yeah, this guy looked like somebody I did not want my kids around.

[SPEAKER_00]: But what's stranger is in the article, she said that she believed she had also seen him on Facebook, [SPEAKER_00]: Following a page, she had set up about Tika's disappearance in interacting on that page.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now, unfortunately, that page, as she's talking about no longer exists, it's been replaced by a new one that I think was started in like late 2021.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I can't go and look back at anything that was there.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I would assume that she would have told investigators, you know, when they showed her the picture, like a holy shit, this looks like this guy, he's been on our Facebook page.

[SPEAKER_00]: Did they not find it like, how, what happened then?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: What did the police do with that information?

[SPEAKER_00]: And she said from what it sounds like that this was before, they put at that public call to help identify this man.

[SPEAKER_00]: And like the Facebook thing was not mentioned in that.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I have no, I don't understand what's going on here.

[SPEAKER_00]: So like they potentially had a picture.

[SPEAKER_00]: And like even if it was a composite, [SPEAKER_01]: Why not put that out?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, why not put that out?

[SPEAKER_00]: This part is mind-boggling to me, especially because all of this was like three years ago.

[SPEAKER_00]: And nothing new has happened.

[SPEAKER_00]: In late 2022, a new age progressed image of Tika was released.

[SPEAKER_00]: This one was created at the forensic anthropology and computer enhancement services, faces, laboratory at Louisiana State University.

[SPEAKER_00]: When Teresa saw it, she said that she cried because it was the first photo that she believed really looked like her baby.

[SPEAKER_00]: New frontier lanes unsurprisingly like after all of this came out and again like the other incidents there I don't think necessarily came out in public at the time, but I don't think it's a coincidence that less than a year later it was bulldozed Jesus like somebody was like, alright, well, we're done with this we're not having a bowling alley anymore.

[SPEAKER_00]: So there's like a home depot and I think it's checking the box there now.

[SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, while it was being demolished, investigators were there.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, in case anything was found.

[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_00]: And the construction crews were all aware of like what it happened.

[SPEAKER_00]: So they like, they were instructed to kind of keep an eye out if they saw anything weird.

[SPEAKER_00]: So there was like another search performed at that time.

[SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, nothing was uncovered.

[SPEAKER_01]: So the only question I have was about the clothing and detective Vropel, the cold case detective that's on it now.

[SPEAKER_01]: Did he ever say anything publicly about the clothes?

[SPEAKER_00]: Not that I've seen.

[SPEAKER_00]: No.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I know that there was, you've mentioned that at the time, there was some sort of forensic.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it was sent to the forensic lab and they combed it for fibers, apparently.

[SPEAKER_01]: But they didn't release any of what was found.

[SPEAKER_00]: No, and they still haven't.

[SPEAKER_01]: The reason why I'm asking about this is I'm wondering the importance of the clothing or if that was red herring.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: Not that the cold case detective not mentioning it [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: Do they still have those clothes?

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's been over 20 years.

[SPEAKER_00]: And do they have whatever fibers were combed off of it?

[SPEAKER_01]: Or was there some sort of DNA present?

[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe they could test now.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I don't know if anything has been re-examined.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if anything still exists.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I'm assuming that there weren't like blood stains on the clothing or anything like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like they would have been in, like I said, did actually publish photos of the clothes in the newspaper.

[SPEAKER_00]: And you can't really see anything because it's a black and white terrible newspaper photo.

[SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, again, I think if there were blood stains or anything like that on the clothing, anything obvious, [SPEAKER_00]: That's not somebody, probably would have mentioned that, you know, but blood, obviously, isn't the only thing of forensic value that you could possibly pull off of clothes.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, I do not know where we stand with that evidence.

[SPEAKER_00]: Teresa has held out hope that Tika is still alive out there.

[SPEAKER_00]: She believes that there's a possibility that Tika doesn't know she was abducted because she was so young.

[SPEAKER_00]: And Theresa likes to hope that her daughter had a good life.

[SPEAKER_00]: That she played sports in high school and graduated and went off to college.

[SPEAKER_00]: In December 2022, she told CNN, quote, if she's out there and she sees this, know you have five sisters that want to meet you.

[SPEAKER_00]: You have a mom and an enormous number of ants and uncles that are just waiting for you to come home.

[SPEAKER_00]: We know it's been almost 24 years and I'm sure you don't know this, but we want to know you.

[SPEAKER_00]: We want to bring you home because I've never given up on you.

[SPEAKER_00]: I will not stop looking for you until you're found.

[SPEAKER_00]: Tiko with Trust Lewis has been missing since January 23, 1999 from Tacoma, Washington.

[SPEAKER_00]: Tika is a mixed race female who is Native American, white, and black.

[SPEAKER_00]: She was approximately three feet tall and 35 pounds at the time of her disappearance.

[SPEAKER_00]: She has black hair with natural reddish highlights and brown eyes.

[SPEAKER_00]: She has the large birthmark on her left buttock and patches of light discoloration on her face and the left side for buttocks as the result of Xima.

[SPEAKER_00]: Tika has facial dimples and pierced ears.

[SPEAKER_00]: She was last seen wearing a green Tweetie bird sweatshirt, white sweatpants, and black and white air Jordan sneakers.

[SPEAKER_00]: She also had a clear purse with a fish design containing starburst candies in quarters.

[SPEAKER_00]: The Tacoma Police Department is asking anyone with information about Ticolose's disappearance to contact Crime Stoppers of Tacoma Pierce County at 1-800-222-TIPS.

[SPEAKER_00]: You can also call the National Center for Missing and Exploded Children at 1-800-The-Wast.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's a $1,000 reward for information leading to arrest and charges in the case.

[SPEAKER_00]: You can see all the sources for this episode along with photos and videos at our website [SPEAKER_01]: and be sure to follow us on social, and then they were gone pod on Facebook and at ATTWG pod on Instagram TikTok and Twitter.

[SPEAKER_01]: If you like what we're doing, please subscribe and consider leaving a five-star review on Apple podcasts.

[SPEAKER_01]: It will help new listeners find us, and the more people it will listen, more chances we have are bringing someone home.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we'll see you here next week for a brand new episode.

[SPEAKER_01]: See you next week.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then they were gone as hosted by Cone Gallagher and Deepham Flick.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'll research writing and editing is done by Cone Gallagher.

[SPEAKER_00]: The music is the stork by Katza.

[SPEAKER_00]: Additional music is provided by Kai Engel.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then they were gone is a little monster production.

[SPEAKER_02]: Hey, you could go in!