This is the Wheel Weaves, a Wheel of time podcast with no spoilers.

Hey everyone, I'm your host Danny, and I'm the first time reader going through this series chapter by chapter.

As always, there's no spoilers past the chapter recovering, and that means it's totally safe for first time readers.

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K.

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In this episode, we are talking about chapter four of A Memory of Light.

Yeah.

Chapter four is advantages to a Bond.

Yeah, I want to hear something funny.

Yeah, why were you laughing about?

Because I fallen often.

So I read this chapter a little while ago, sure, and I read it in the book with my eyes with words on a page as.

Opposed to audiobook, and I knew what this chapter was called.

Now in the time between me reading it on the page and me listening to it again today, it really sounded like the chapter title was bandages to a bond?

Is that the joke?

That's it?

I just laughed today because I was like, because I was trying to figure out why do we need bandages on our bond?

Like we need to fix okay?

And then I just opened it up and I was like, oh, that makes some more sense.

There you go.

You had a long day and it was a day.

Yeah, yeah, so let's get into this.

Sure, then go to sleep, and then maybe maybe tomorrow will be better.

And you know what, we're definitely going to finish this book within the next five years.

I'd will finish the rate at the same rate that we are gonna get to this meeting that's going to happen tomorrow, literally within hours.

And you know what, this chapter such a downer?

No, it doesn't.

Okay, do you want something actually, like pretty funny for a fun fact because it is a bit of a wild story and dive that I went into Wikipedia for this one.

Give it to us, got some inspiration.

But okay, so Logan is a character and we're gonna get to we're gonna get to see him, and I don't know, do you leak it like minus points because your predictions weren't weren't right?

No, we're a little bit off.

So here's the thing about a positive reinforcement system.

Yeah, no, I'm going for negative reinforcement.

Oh yeah, okay, Well.

It takes stars away.

I don't want No, I don't want star stack.

I earned the stars I got right, you can't take those away.

I just don't earn new one A stormy cloud.

Now, No, I don't want that.

I just don't get a.

New You were like Logane, it's never here.

And it turns out Logane.

Is in fact apply here, and now that I think about it.

It makes sense.

Okay.

Yeah, But the problem is, when I'm reading this book, if it makes sense, then I'm like, oh, it can't possibly be that.

Yeah, I'm thinking of point C, D, E, and F because point A right, of course, it's not the most obvious, okay, And I feel like Logan being here is just the most obvious.

Yeah, and that's annoying.

Well, things go not obvious really quick, so okay.

Anyways, Okay, so Logan's name.

I want to talk about the inspiration for it.

Now there is a boring answer and a much more fun answer.

Fun answer.

I'm gonna art with the boring one to set the stage.

Okay.

So his name Logane is possibly derived from Logan Street, Yeah, which is a street that's right around the corner from r J's home in Charleston.

So maybe he had a buddy named Logan.

Maybe.

I mean, like, that's all.

It's also a name, it is, Yeah.

This is Logane.

However, the much more mythologically referenced and influenced name probably not.

But go on.

The legendary Irish king lou Gaide reab endured and it's Irish, so I don't know.

I probably didn't pronounce it right.

Anyways, there's ties to the Ulcer cycle associated with ku Chu Lane, who we did numerous fun facts on in the past.

Okay, there's lots of references in this book to the ulscro cycle, however.

Which I in fact remember all of them.

Lou Gaide, let's just go with lou Gaid instead of Logane.

Has the name the red striped or red Sky.

Now you might think you know why he's called the red stripe, but I think think you don't know in fact, because this guy's story is crazy.

So how does this relate to Logain?

Just the name?

Oh?

Okay, go on, Yeah, I just want to I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something that was it.

I'm like, where's the connection on Logan?

Do you want to say Againaid?

Okay?

Lugaid?

So he is the incest born son of the triplet sons of the High King of Ireland.

She got the High King of Ireland, and then you've got the High King's triplet sons who are breasts, Gnar and Lothair.

Now those three triplets conspire to overthrow their dad, and their sister cloth Through tried to stop them, and the triplets.

The boys were childless, so naturally they were worried about dying without an air naturally, So what should the sister do but convince the three of them to go into bed with her.

Yeah, And then those three plus us her conceive lou Gaide Rehaben Durgh, the son of the three triplets and their sister claw Through.

Now Lougaid later became High King of Ireland, so the line of succession was preserved.

So that's good.

Few, if I was worried, it wouldn't be.

Now you might be wondering, now, okay, where does the red stripe thing come in?

Well, turns out he had two red stripes on his body, one at his neck and one at his waist, dividing him into three.

Because from the neck up he resembled Gnar, and from the neck to the waist he resembled Breads just the chest case.

Yeah, and then from the waist down he resembled low Fair.

Same but got it.

Yeah.

And then later on lou Gate also slept with claw Through, Yes, who was his mother?

Conceiving Krim fan Nia Nair, who also became High King few if we preserved the line again, so good job we did it.

Sounds bad.

That's the Irish mythology for you.

Huh did you like that?

Was that good?

I have some questions?

Yeah, there's a lot, don't ask.

I can't wait for the history people to come.

After you and say one percent accurate.

Great job, Yeah, good.

Job looking on Wikipedia for that one.

But come on, you tell me Wikipedia is not accurate.

Honestly, it's a mythology, like it's probably pretty accurate.

Probably fine.

The stories are.

Yeah, it's just crazy enough that it's.

Like, yep, that's all right.

Yeah, I want to know.

I want to meet the actually don't want to meet the people who like throut these stories, like what why?

Why is this the way things have to go?

But apparently they have some historical significance.

Maybe I don't know.

They're not gods.

They're just people doing their best, like lougade the.

Red strikes, like pharaohs and stuff.

Right, they all had sex with their whole family.

Sure, I guess so maybe I don't know.

Well, that's definitely a thing that people say happened.

History people are going to come after Uni.

History, people like, nah, yeah, I'm.

Right, great job, good, good history.

This is not a history podcast.

We don't have to be accurate here.

Should we start a new podcast where we just talk about things.

We know nothing about.

That way for people to correct.

Us sounds kind of funny, like a version of drunk History, but like.

All the facts are wrong, that's just I think that was just drunk history.

Drunk History was pretty accurate.

I think.

Okay, yeah, yeah, like drunk History, it's a funny show.

Okay, okay, and watch it after, but we have to do this first.

Okay.

Chapter four advantages to a bond, right.

The chapter symbol is the dragons fang, which I think we've already had at least once this book.

And we're only four chapters in, so I hope I'm remembering correctly.

Yeah, you're right.

Well, we've read four chapters and now two of them have drinks dragons.

Okay, all right, and we are starting in Androl's perspective, because Pavara and Andrel are waiting for Amarin to get back.

And now I do have one critique of this chapter, okay, and that is we just left Pavara, who was concussed.

Yeah, she's definitely got a concussion.

Definitely concussion, nudge whatever.

We're like staying awake, right because we don't want her no mention this chapter of her head.

Hurting, fine, of her feeling woozy.

It's one of those concussions that goes away in twenty minutes.

It's fine.

Yeah, So that's my critique here, Just.

Don't mention the S word and then you don't have to worry about the ramifications of it.

Yeah, because I feel like she's doing just fine.

Yeah, it's fine, she's fine, she can still play.

It's fine.

Okay, you don't have to pull her from the line.

Yeah, we should probably do some concussion protocol.

Yeah, after the game after all.

Right, Well, anyway, we're spending time telling each other our life stories, and Pavara has just opened up to Andrel and told him all about how the Dark Friends order he family and she hates them so much, and it's all this thing.

And then Angrel's like, oh, well, my dad killed himself because he was a chandler.

And then he told my mom that he was going to kill himself the next day because she was afraid of him.

Because male chandlers go crazy it's actually like humanizing them and their relationship.

It actually does a really nice job.

I liked it of them discussing things which we don't get a lot of communication between two people in the wheel of time.

Yeah, oh, if you've ever.

Mentioned especially people at such odds.

And then now we're actually instead of just speculating, right that they're forming this emotional connection because of this bond or whatever, but we're actually seeing the communication piece of that.

And I'm going to give them some points because it seems like they're both putting effort into that as well.

Yeah, and like, which is something we don't see to almost.

Not on purpose.

Yeah, because Pavar was like, oh, I haven't said that in a real long time, right, Like she's like surprised herself at how comfortable she feels talking to andrel.

Yeah, so good, good for both of them.

Ye, both get super connecting.

Yeah, both get stickers stars.

And a fun thing that's happening in this chapter new mind reading powers.

Yeah.

Yeah, I don't know how else you're gonna say basically that that's it.

Yeah, we can read each other's minds now pretty much.

Yeah.

I send you my thoughts, you hear them.

Yeah, we're still struggling with like the complex thoughts.

Not by the end of this chapter, yeah, oh, we're so surprised and how easy this is becoming and now we can do it?

Yeah, because at first it's like why say lot word when few word do trick?

Right?

But then by the end they're like full sentences.

They got it.

Yeah, easy, you know.

I actually I'm okay with it too.

I'm okay with it because there is a connection that you can have with someone where you can look at them across the room and you know what they're thinking, and you know that.

They send you words in my head.

No, but also I.

Can't be thinking about something and then you know what I'm thinking.

But also there's there's also like there's a there's there, there's the asterisk to that where you kind of do know though what I would say in this situation, right.

Yeah, I don't know exactly the words you're trying to.

Know, they're not implanted in your brain.

But I mean, we got a little bit of magic in the series, so the whole point, I'm okay with it.

Okay, Now, are we assuming that every double bonded couple, Yeah, a couple for lack of a better word, have this ability?

I would say yes if they did the bonding in the same way that Andrel and Pavara have done it.

And we don't specifically know that every double bonded couple we've seen is done the same way.

We actually don't know a very many double bonded Yeah, because we know Asherman have been bonded to isaid I and I said, I have been bonded to Asherman.

But have they done the whole thing back and forth double bonding?

Yeah?

And I also don't necessarily know, like.

We might have seen it and someone will say, oh, yeah, remember when we saw it that one time, and I'll be like no.

And the reason why I'm going to argue this is is just for the have we seen the same weaves?

I don't know that we could say that, because we've got the Black Tower version of like this male bonding female weave, and then we've got pavars like Warter bond that she knows and in this specific order.

So like, for example, we've got Rand and Alana who are bonded.

So if Rand bonds Alana, would they be able to reach other's minds the same way?

I don't know because I don't know what specific weave Andrew has used in this situation.

You know, like there's a few unknowns that I wouldn't feel confident enough saying yes every double bond, I first.

She used Alana instead of like Elaine or something can actually want him.

But that but that's the thing is, like we've seen that bonding ceremony with rand too, which adds a whole nother There's there's questions I don't Yeah, so that's why I'm just saying maybe I don't want to say yes or no specifically, I want to say maybe it.

Actually makes me more interested in the Laane Brigita bond because of that whole female the female right thing?

Is it different?

Right or not?

Yeah, and then we don't also have that connection of Burgda to a Laane the back channel.

Yeah, but like hypothetically, could you have a ceremony of some sorts to reverse bond It.

Can be included in some kind of odd bonding.

We got a crazy flow chart of how we can bond people all together.

Everyone's wrapped up pretty tight here.

Yeah, pretty crazy.

So anyways, yeah, maybe.

Huh, how about all those questions?

A lot of questions answers Okay, anyway, we have somebody who's gonna come in who's an expert negotiator.

Well you say somebodys Amarron Amarn Yeah remember remember Amar Yeah, I.

Mean he's the tear guy.

Yeah.

Yeah, who's pretending to be his brother.

Yeah, yeah, okay, you got it.

Awesome.

So he finally comes back and he's like, I know how to be a lord, and I know how to get information out of people.

Bara and Angel are like, because we have no idea how to get it for well, this was the planet.

It's like, hey, if you can just do this kind of thing, like why we have to go through this whole thing.

It's like, okay, well we need to do it in the right way.

In the right way way.

Yeah.

And Pavara at one point wishes that she had some sort of device that she used to have when she interrogated people.

Ah, was that the torture?

Sure?

Maybe?

Yeah.

I like to imagine maybe like kindl yeah, well.

Kind of oraud or something something.

Why detector type something to you know, some kind.

Of secret red ajail.

Those crazy triangrail to do a lot of things, probably not being used for the right purpose.

Not Yeah, okay, all right, So Amarin actually comes back.

So they were doing the whole alibi thing, creating an alibi for them.

So they were causing a bit of a ruckus with Koterin and crew to be like I was there exactly, And Amarin makes note that he doesn't think they're going to tolerate Androl and the crew very much longer.

Something's changed, and it seems like they're not as okay with just letting them get away with stuff.

Well, I could say that because I already know.

I already know that.

We already saw that in the weird warehouse tavern, Yeah, when there was a almost fight.

Yeah, and it's getting worse.

So it seems like it's progressing quite quickly.

Yeah, because isn't it the same night.

Yeah, And it makes sense based on what we know of Logane now that they do actually have them, they've been trying to turn Logain, haven't successfully done so yet, but will in the next day or two.

So it seems like that's at least what this dummies.

That's what the dummy's gonna be.

That's what he's gonna tell me.

Name dob doabber, dobbsrb, DOBSR.

That the difference, Okay, so yeah, we're gonna get Pivara to slowly remove the weaves that are blocking his ears right now so it can seem like the tide Off weaves are failing so that he can overhear what Amarin's gonna say.

And I love this.

I think it's so good.

It's really good, and it's very curious.

It's very curious what he says too that, like I want to talk about the I don't want if I want to call it a fake thing he says, but it's like yeah, nah, super fake.

Yeah, that's super fake thing that he says.

But like there's a lot of merit here.

So okay, so let's talk about this thing that he overhears.

So Amarin's persona changes really drastically into this like lord figure and Angrel's a little bit sounds yeah, a little bit taken aback by back.

Yeah.

So he starts talking about them hiding at his estates and quotations and then explains that nobody's going to look for them there and if they play their cards right, they can build up a rival Black Tower.

I love this part.

Okay, So Andrew.

Speaks like, oh, they can't hear he can't hear us, right, yeah.

Yeah, So Andrel speaks up and then Marn like cuts him off to be a dick to Andrel to keep that part of things going.

And Andrew's like, okay, I guess I'll play the part.

Yeah.

And then Amarin tells Pavara that the only way they can rival the White Tower and the Black Tower is to create a place where male and female channelers can work together, like a great tower.

I love it.

It's like a tower, if you will.

It actually makes a lot of sense in my mind because like that's what I said, I used to be they used to be together working together.

Yeah, not this black and white tower.

So hypothetically like we should we should do this joined effort tower.

So maybe what do you mean, maybe why not?

What's the well?

I see no downsides here.

I just don't think we should be rivaling White Tower and Black Tower.

I think that it just all needs to naturally come together at some point.

But the Black Tower has worked out and they're working on this big, you know tower that's already got this because it's evil, right, So what you think They're just gonna let all the guys move into the White Tower.

That's gonna be just chaos.

Definitely, no really liked.

Although yeah, all the.

Maleower miss like a lot.

There's lots of rooms, lots of room, tons room.

You still don't want all those male channel just moving all their stuff in to the White Tower.

That's not going to go.

Well, I bet they have less stuff than I said I have.

That's actually very that's probably very true.

They debatably they don't have any It was like a farm.

They got nothing.

Yeah, mostly they got no stuff.

They go no things.

Yeah, they're way younger too.

Oh well, they're so old.

They've collected so many things over there.

And now they're gonna want to borrow all their stuff for sure.

Not.

No, the only way to do this is rival tower.

Absolutely, So I'm on board with this idea.

Anyway, release the dummies.

I can talk to him, except he doesn't say it like that.

He's like, release.

Stop serve this poor guy.

So she does, and then Amaran tosses him money pouch and it's like, this is payment for everything that's happened.

I'm so sore.

It is totally not what we wanted to do.

Dumb andrel over here went on a power trip and didn't do what he was supposed to because he's dumb.

He's so dum, so dumb, this guy.

I've met this guy.

Uh, and of course that's what we all think of.

Andrel so, well, Dobbs is a bit suspicious.

Well bit at this point.

But the money's not for anything.

It's just for saying sorry.

And then Amarin's like, well, will you help me maintain my cover?

And also Andrel go get us some tea or some water.

And then Dobbs was like, actually wine, well no, he says, go get us some tea.

And then Dobbs says.

Guys, he's the wine guy.

Well, actually I heard there's wine here.

Yeah, very well, fetch us some wine.

Get some of that line, perfect power power.

I love it.

Yeah, I would say that to you.

Actually, you ever want to lure Danny somewhere?

I actually heard there's wine here.

Yeah, tell her, tell you got wine?

Brunch?

Yeah, child's birthday party?

Why not wine?

Not wait, brunch at the child's birthday party.

No, those are two separate things.

But as long as there's wine there, like, I'll come.

Yeah, that's fine, okay, I get it.

Just kidding all right, So.

Andrel goes, and since we're still in his perspective by the time he comes back, Andmarn and DOBBSR Are like chit chatting now and they're basically buddies.

I guess because I'm Aaron is really good with people.

It's got good people skills, and putting this guy at ease because again, Dopster was never like the most on board with the good side, and now he's not most on board with the bad side.

To be the dullest crayon in the box.

Yeah, and we're sort of using that to our advantage.

Yeah, the gray crayon, if you will, it's so dull, right, yeah, you know gray Tower.

No, I got it.

Okay, except the Great Tar is supposed to be good and smart.

Well, it's supposed to be a combination.

I think we've lost that maybe a little bit, okay, trying to fit that one in there.

That's fine, Okay.

So now Amarin's like, oh, well, I knew I couldn't hang out with Taym because he's so smart and he would see through my ploy right away.

And then yeah, these guys are so low gain that ran guy.

Those guys are both.

So dumb, so dumb, who wouldn't even know lord?

Yes, yeah, but yeah, obviously those guys are farmers, are dowber than everybody else.

So anyways, Dobster finally starts spilling the beans that Time literally has logan.

And then this is the story that it's taking longer to turn logan because of will.

Yeah, strong willed, and you know, maybe a couple of more days.

But yes, Dobster will agree to talk to Tayim foramar In and then you can come over to the dark side, basically like I want to come over, but.

I gotta make sure it's done in the right way.

Yeah, totally on your side.

It's fine, it's fine.

Yeah.

And then he's like, okay, well can we go talk to Time now?

Oh yeah, oh no, he's checking on logan, right Slogan being held again.

I can't remember that that the the place place and it's I guess you know the.

Secret rooms of the Foundations of the Bills super basements.

Oh yeah, and that secret basement is Oh, he's in the rubble pile, you know, the place where remember all the cavens and stuff turns out not cavens.

It's over there.

Yeah, thanks man.

Totally forgot Yeah, thanks man.

It's good.

We got him.

We did it.

We tricked him, We tricked and then like that's enough of that.

Yeah, we can stop.

We got the info.

We're done with this improv game.

Yeah yeah, so she wraps him back up.

It's actually pretty fun.

Like, I like this, and it really shows the skill set of them are and that I like the guy, and I liked him when Ran was staying there and we didn't really get very much of him, but just him being able to show his usefulness, I appreciate it.

No, I agree, and Andrew sort of like why couldn't you have just talked to this guy and then sets it up like, well, we had to have the threat of danger, the threat of violence.

Yeah, we had to have him not surrounded by his buddy.

Surrounded by his smarter buddies.

You can help him out, tell him, no, don't tell them where the secret entrance is.

Right, Oh, should not have said that?

Yeah, exactly right, right.

Doubt right, right, that is a Hay grade reference.

I did it.

Yeah, like from the movie the Fuffy thing, right, Yeah, we're talking about the Fluffy right, it is the three headed dog, not that.

Yeah.

Yeah, and also like how to get past Fluffy and then also information about the dragons saying yeah, like lots of like it's a it's a relief in the first movie.

Yeah, you're trying to avoid this, but it's happening.

Okay, Okay, fine, you know what, before we do this, there's actually a correction that has to be made.

Oh no, okay, from like a long time ago, Okay, that I was just avoiding.

Yeah.

So remember when we did the shot for like the dead bodies in the water.

Yeah, okay, So we made a reference to the Goblet of Fire, Okay, in the trivers A tournament.

That's fine.

But when we made the reference to the dead bodies in the lake going to find the Horse Crux, I said it was the Deathly hollows, but it was actually the blood prints.

Oh, big mistake.

Yeah.

So I just thought I would point that out because people said you got that wrong, wrong, and I know that, Okay, I get it.

Okay, it was the thought that counts, all right, cheers to saying things you shouldn't.

That's the BlackBerry whiskey.

That's different than what I'm drinking.

Yeah, us like a pink a pink drink.

Oh yeah, not that no.

No, okay.

So before we get into the end of this, perspective.

There is one thing that I want to talk about here.

So it's a conversation that Angrel and Pavaris sort of have while they're just like chatting with each other, And it's about the process of turning someone to the shadow.

Okay, so about how Angrel's not quite sure.

Yeah, so he doesn't it actually can be done.

Well, Angrel doesn't feel like it's even fair or that it should be possible to force someone to be evil, Like it shouldn't be a thing, because sure, fate moves people around and it forces terrible situations on people and it kills people.

But the choice to serve the dark or the light, he doesn't feel like that's something that should be able to be like taken from you.

So here's the thing about the dark one.

Yeah, doesn't care about fair.

Well, that's true.

I can imagine the dark one saying that exactly.

Okay, So he thinks that the person that he knew, like if you get turned, is either dead or gone or killed or something else at least different, like something evil has been put into that body and it's like a new soul or something like that.

Like, he doesn't really want to accept the fact that this is a thing that can happen to people.

I kind of picture it like permanent compulsion.

Right in a way.

Well, and there's an interesting note about the whole is a compulsion though, because we've got those dubster guy and it's it's very different than compulsion.

No, but you know what it feels like Varren's garbage brain weaves right, Like it's some variation of Yeah, it's in.

A general sense, this is what I want you to do.

I want you to be more generally evil.

How you go about doing that adds up to you.

You want to still like wine Dobs, Sure you go.

You still want to break.

Into changing that, Yeah, changing.

Everything about you.

We're not replacing all the We're.

Just changing your core belief.

System, right, do this but eviler right, which.

Goes for this side instead of this side.

And that's almost like what Varren did, right even with like she was like, oh, we have to protect the do you go about protecting the dragon?

However?

It makes sense for you, it's.

Just the end gaming here.

Yeah, Yeah, he's not happy.

With it, garbage weaves.

Yeah, overall he's not happy with it.

But apparently the old texts talk about it that it.

Can be done definitely, so oh yeah, but for sure it's happening.

It's will power, it's will power and how and that's you know, logan, good good job holding out, I guess for as long as he is so far, I.

Bet ninive could never wow never.

Be turned never.

Yeah okay, I like that all right.

So who's another like super dumb channeler that's like no.

Problem, like to be turned?

Well, we get it all the time too.

Where I mean, I think in this perspective to our last chapter camera it's all blending in now, but we've heard it multiple times.

It's more useful to not be turned than to be turned, like even turning around to the darks.

It's not as useful to have a turned dragon.

We want him to willingly come over to the dark side.

Yeah, okay, yeah, all right.

So Bavar's like, hey, what's the plan now, and Andrew says, we're gonna go get the guys.

We're gonna wait for time to finish his inspection all again, then we're gonna break in and rescue him.

And then sees the tower back from the shadow and it'say, oh oh, is that all that's it?

Okay?

Cool?

Yeah, as long as our plans an easy one.

It's a plan.

Let's let's do this.

Okay, good job everybody.

Okay, that's the end of this perspective.

Yeah, yeah, we're going to change perspectives.

But I think we should take a quick break.

Yeah because I need some tums.

Yeah, because I hartburn after that shot.

All right, fair, Okay, so we are back and we are jumping into Ram's perspective.

Yeah, just dozed off.

Yeah, after Avienda finally is letting him get some sleep.

Three hours later, do we actually get a time?

No?

I was like, asked for the igloo.

Wasn't that more than three hours?

I don't know, like five hours or something, And I was.

Like, no, maybe this is like seven hours.

Who's to say no?

No?

Yeah, So okay, he's dozed.

Off, dozed off, realizes now he's walking in some place that's not quite Tellerndriod and not his own dreams, right.

It's a dream shot.

Charge Okay, And we get some clarification from him in this perspective of what this actually is.

Yeah, how this relates to the dreams that he had back in like Eye of the World.

Yeah, like allegedly, and this is the whole thing is that we when we get the weird middle ground where someone's in control of the dream and it's usually moored in or like a shamoel.

It's a dream shard where you have more direct control over what's happening.

It's not like your own dream where you should be in control.

Things like that.

And Rand's also like, hey man, this this is probably not great because he sets words he should this shouldn't happen.

He shouldn't be able to be pulled into a dream shard, shouldn't be doable.

But he knows who's walking beside him right now, and it's his best friend.

Elon Elan, who's actually Mordon.

Yeah it was actually a Shamel, Yeah he was actually I already said his best friend, best friend, best bud okay, And he's like hey man, and Mordan's like what's up ltt.

Yeah, and Ron's like how did you get past my words?

And Morten's like, I don't know.

We're drawn together, we're connected.

It's weird.

I don't like this.

Okay, So we get this very interesting mention of Rand saying, hey, how about me Aaron land Fear?

How about her?

You let her off the leash?

Hey?

And then Mordon does not like that because he in fact has not let her off any leash.

Yeah, it's not good.

No, he did not.

He's like, excuse me, and we.

Don't even call her that anymore.

Her name is Sindane.

Yeah.

It's like, oh haha.

I was like, it's funny, the dark sense of humor, and Morten was like, no, he does not.

This is not a joke.

It's not a joke.

Yeah, And I like it because he's like, don't pretend that you knew she was alive.

You didn't know, you didn't even know the way you knew, you didn't even know.

It's like, okay, so we're gonna shift the conversation because like they hang out with each other.

I like the interactions with Morgan because we had that one where Morgan was like sitting in front of a fireplace or whatever.

He's like, I'm so tired, and Red's like, why am I here.

He's like, I don't know, I don't know.

It is auso strange.

Yeah, and he's like, oh, I just can't wait for this world to be dust so close.

Yeah, I mean that's that's what he wants.

And going back full circle to Shamayl Mordon like what he wants is just non existence because he's of a nihilistic guy.

And yeah, he's done here, He's done, he doesn't want to be here anymore.

Yeah, okay, So back to the topic of me Aaron first, because we got to wrap this part up.

Rand's like, hey, she doesn't hold any power over me anymore, and Morgan says, yeah, I'm pretty sure she's still upset about that ill woman what's her name again?

A woman?

And that blonde woman and that dark haired woman.

Yeah, who are all these ladies?

And then apparently she hates Rand and holds Rand responsible for what's happening to her, and RAN's like, yeah, that makes sense to me.

I guess I just can't help it that she's so obsessed with me.

Yeah, okay.

But the thought in the back of Rand's mind when he knows that land Fear is still alive, if land Fears alive, well maybe that means that Maureen might be alive, might be alive and she is.

I don't know, Red, do you know?

Not yet?

He does not yet, but probably soon maybe if we ever get to if we ever get to tomorrow.

At some point maybe although I've been waiting to see if they're going to show up at all at this meeting.

Yeah.

Yeah, Well it's kind of like a black hole, you know, like as you get closer to the black hole, time just slows right on down.

So we're never actually gonna c We're never gonna get to the meeting.

It's just never gonna happen.

Well, especially if we don't released episodes when we're supposed to.

It never happens.

And it's never gonna happen, man, Yeah, okay, all right, So now we got Ran doing a little bit of reminiscing what the good old days when he was terrified him Morgan back in the early names that remember the time when I was so afraid of you.

And now yeah, just a stupid idiot.

Yeah.

And he's like, did you use dream charts on me back then?

And Morton doesn't even answer them, rude.

But then Rand's like, oh, you're crazy and you were crazy back then too, hey, and you're still crazy, aren't you, aren't you?

Yeah?

And then Morden is like, well, taunting's not gonna work because the Shadow is gonna win.

Yeah, And Ran kind of gets a little bit personal here.

He's like, you hate yourself.

I can see it, I can feel it in you.

You hate yourself and you only want victory because then you can end everything, because you'd rather not exist than be you.

That's so mean.

But actually Moran's like yes, actually, yes.

I also yeah, he wants everything to end.

But then Ran tells him that he, like capital h the dark One is never gonna release you, because that's the one thing which is interesting.

So we got I think it was Grendel who was like shaml is the only one of the survivors who actually got killed but the heat of Iran, and it's like you didn't see him?

Are you not punished?

It's like that is literally that's the punishment.

Existence is Mordan's punishment.

He hates it the most, and that's why the leader of a yeah hates it, hates it.

Yeah, you're nageless.

Ah yeah.

First Moon's like, I'm gonna kill you and.

Your ladies, right, all three of them.

Yeah, I'm gonna do that before this is all done, right.

And the Rand's like no, no, no, this isn't even about us.

I'm done with you, and he kind of goes full dragon here.

He takes hold of Morton's dream chart, which shouldn't be possible, like this is Morden's dream shart, And even though Rand shouldn't even be here, Rand exerts his own will in this place, which shouldn't happen.

Sunshining, yes, sunshining, and like the dead leaves that Mordon has as his vibe here, all start turning green and the dark clouds boil away.

And then Morgan starts freaking out because like, whoa, what are you doing?

This shouldn't be possible.

And rounds like anything's possible because I'm better than you.

He does think that.

He's like, this place is basically Teleranriod, so those rules of like exerting your will over you know, it should be the same.

Yeah, and sell your master.

This fight is not like any other.

Tell him I'm coming for him.

Yeah.

Moran was like whoa, buddy, Okay, like let's let's cool it.

And then he disappears because Rand is I don't know, he's like powering up here.

Yeah, and it's not just Mordon versus Rand at this point, like it's been every other time.

Well, this is different every other time, according to what Mordan.

And Flicker flicker, Yeah, right.

But I mean, it always seems to be Rand against the Dark One.

Mordan just wants to feel like it's always about him versus Rand, but it's not.

But this time, this time, he's coming for you, back up right, it's not just him.

Well, and then Rand's entire plan still at this point, is like, let's kill the dark One if that's even possible.

Sure, but with a bunch of people behind him united, Yeah, it's not just me fighting you.

If the meeting goes well, yes.

Okay, whatever, let's just go get some sleep before we wake up and save the world.

Hopefully, hopefully, because the meeting is tomorrow.

Although for real, maybe this day.

You'd have to think it's after midnight.

Oh for sure, Yeah, oh for sure, just today with all the doing it and then the dream.

It's today, for sure, it's today, right, just later on, yeah, after sleep, a little sleepy.

You know this is all caused because they touched bailfires, right, Like, this is the real problem that Randon Morgan are kind of like connected.

It all started going wonky when they touched bailfires together.

Is that when it started going wonky?

The cross streams, Yeah, that was like a big thing, and it's like the whole like, WHOA what happened?

That was like the big event that I feel like.

There were lots of big events.

There were a lot of big.

Events, but always been weird.

There was like a true power crossover with Sidine and the bail Fire at shadow Logoth and the whole.

Thing, and apparently Samuel actually died.

It turns out turns out I'm pretty sure he's on that dead a F list.

Now, did you put him there for sure?

Because it's pretty clear that he's gone.

Yeah, I did.

Yeah, but I'm still just wait for you going to be embarrassed when he comes back.

Honestly, I'll be like, okay, yeah, that actually makes sense.

That makes more sense to me that him being actually.

Gone got him.

We got him with the bail fire.

No, it's fine, Okay, Well we're gonna change perspectives.

We're going to Pavara, right, Andrew Pavara, Andre Pavara, Andre Pavara.

So now in Pavara's head, we're croaching in the rain.

She's all wet and soaked and dirty and whatever.

Yeah, we could we know channeling or not, because if you recall, we're in the Black Tower and there's a bunch of dark friends and turned black.

Auja and actually black Goja too, and.

Actually black Goja and male channelers who can sense female.

Yeah, we actually don't even know how many, is said I are actually here.

Yeah, I'm sure we could go back and get like an account.

But and how many of them were actually black Gja.

But I mean also considering how many Black Goja fled the White Tower, how many ended up coming here exactly?

That's what I'm saying.

Is this now a safe haven for black Aja or it will be soon if.

It's not, specially under Time?

Yeah, oh for sure.

That's a great place where you can just like a mass people.

Actually is pretty good.

Yeah, it is a pretty good.

Honestly, Time deserves the promotion he really does.

I actually agree with He's done a great job.

I actually completely agree with you.

Like the Black Tower is so bad for the Light.

It's excellent.

It's so bad.

It is excellent for the dark.

Yeah, it's so good for that.

So good.

Yeah, I'm pretty impressed.

Okay, because the Light has not been able to actually put anything together.

Yeah, and I you know point, I would like to not blame everything on Rand because he did set up the school and leave, but also he's got enough on his plate.

But also maybe don't put time in church.

Yeah, and I don't remember a lot of things I've said before, sure, but the one thing I do remember saying is, uh, oh yeah, I'm pretty sure we can't just have a bunch of people assembling here, right, because statistically we're gonna have some dark friends.

Yeah, and that's gonna be bad statistically, you were right, Okay, so that counsels out, yeah for sure.

Non gold star and a gold.

Star and the stormy cloud.

You want me to take the stormy cloud away.

From I don't want a stormy cloud, all.

Right, Well, don't say things that are wrong then easy?

Okay?

How am I ever gonna say things that are right if I don't just say everything.

Everything that comes to your rain?

All right?

So they are actually not just in the rain for no reason.

We are looking out of that section where the secret hidden Basement construction zone is, and then they're like, oh yeah, it's pretty clearly guarded by Ashaman.

And then before it's like, how did you never notice this place was guarded?

And it's like because there's a curfew and I don't just wander around at nighttime because you're not allowed to because it's raining.

And yeah, but it's like.

Maybe Time is super concerned about children playing in this construction zone.

Exactly.

You put guards just to make sure you don't.

Want anybody hurting them.

Sound I want people fall into the pit.

Yeah, no, it's not that.

Actually, I think it's.

A Parks and Rex situation.

It is a you have Andy falling into the pit, oh dear, Okay, okay.

So now they keep watching and they're counting the moments until finally we got three ribbons of fire and fly out of the dark and kill the guards.

And then Pavar's like, oh shit, I forgot that they are trained weapons and they would immediately go for the killing blow, yeah, not like shielding and clarking them on the heads.

And then Andrel can like read her brain, and he's like, obviously we're gonna kill.

Like, what are we doing here.

If it's not yeah, murdering dark friends.

That's that's what you're supposed to be best at.

I thought.

But it is an interesting thing because Pavar's like, ooh, we never do that at the White Tower.

And then Androl says to her, because he read her thoughts, he's like Gentling still kills men, just slower, like you are still killing them, just not with a bolt of fire to their brain, I guess, or whatever you want to call it.

So, but that's where we get the chapter title.

There's advantages to the bond, but also inconveniences, also bandages and bandages.

They're gonna need bandages because of the fire bolts in their heads.

Oh no, those guys are dead, right, Okay, Okay, So now we're gonna drag the bodies off into the shadows.

We're going to keep the fire going, so it gives the appearance that the guards are still on duty, but in fact there's no guards on duty because they're dead.

Okay, So we're heading down into the muddy slopes of the foundation and they take some time searching for the entrance, and then they find it, and Pavar does more thinking about what kind of mount andrel is because of this whole back and forth thing that now they're perfect at.

And it's also like Andrew, we get more of his backstory because it's like I can do this.

I was a scout in the mountains, a mist and it's like, how many jobs have you actually had?

Man?

You good?

At quiet moving.

Right me scout miss Mountains of mist Yeah, okay, but I do it one hundred different jobs and all that.

That's fine, and we could talk about it.

And is this when Pavar goes, oh, I get it.

Yeah, been searching for something your whole life?

Right?

It could mean that you're not dedicated to a job, But it also could mean that you know there's something out there that you really want your life to look like, and you found it, and that's why you fight so hard for the Black Tower, That's why.

Andrela is very like, let's save it instead of just leaving.

Yeah?

Is that what they teach you how to do in the White Tower?

Read people like this.

Just pick the part people's motivations.

No, that's just what living for over one hundred years gets you as a rady of observing people in general.

Yeah, that's true.

Okay.

Anyway, we head through these like weird hallways.

I can't picture it at all, but it doesn't actually matter.

Okay, yeah, no, that's fine.

It really doesn't.

Imagine if you will unfinished, there's.

A movie or a show that we watched recently.

Now let me, I have no idea what you're gonna say.

I want to say no.

I want to say yes.

Okay, go what what are you picturing like unfinished hallways where there.

Yeah, but like underground and there's like prison cells within the dirt walls.

But then there's also like a pit in the middle.

It's like a fever dream you had.

No, Okay, we're watching, We're actively watching True Blood.

So it's definitely not no, no, no.

It's it's something fantasy rings, a power or something.

Maybe I don't know anyway, I don't know.

I have no I don't know.

Maybe not that, Okay, I don't know.

I like to imagine like a sewer system like Ninja Turts.

Yes see, I'm not picturing that.

I'm picturing more of whatever I'm picturing.

You're not.

But you know I have no idea.

Maybe if it comes to us or you or me, then we can talk about the next episode.

But right now we're gonna wander these yeah, okay, unfinished slash finished corridors, and we're finally gonna freeze because are you looking it up?

Keep talking, you keep talking, I'm listening.

I'm laying the scene out here, all right.

So the pit is going deeper and deeper and then eventually they drop down in this series of secret titles and chambers and it's like, wow, they really are doing a whole a lot of secret construction for the Black Tower.

This probably isn't gonna be a good thing.

And then at one of these corridors or whatever, they all freeze because someone's approaching ahead of them, and then Jonath the Two Rivers guy, instead of you know, using the powers, is his two Rivers boat to just shoot the guy and it turns out to be co Tearin Coderin, the jerk guy that we don't like.

So he's dead now.

He just gets an arrow in him, and then Jonath is like, that's why I use a bow jerk butt.

So yeah, it's fine.

And then we keep going.

Then we keep going, so finally we get to a place where there's a bunch of tiny cells and then we find Logane in one of the tiny cells.

Logane is here.

Here, we did it.

It's a super tiny cell.

Yeah, it's not good.

No, did you find You're done?

I haven't found anything quite yet because I was half listening to you until my search wasn't very great.

If you give me one.

Minute, search later, search later, No.

I want to search it out.

Just give me one minute, fine, Okay, Okay, I don't have anything.

Okay, what do you got now?

In Percy Jackson, Okay.

There is a prison under Alcatraz that's underground where the monsters, like different monsters are held, Okay, and Percy and pals have to go and rescue a certain monster to help them do something else.

Okay, you're you're saying that to no spoilers.

It was this in because we watched season one of that.

Yeah, it's and that is in season one, says it's a detail that appears in the books and is reflected in the Disney Plus series.

Okay, but I don't know if i've because I've read all the books and so I don't know if I've just imagined from reading, yeah, or if there was actually a scene interesting.

So anyway, okay, I feel like maybe that's what I'm thinking of.

Okay, all right, Well we'll have to dig into that one later because I don't remember that.

Okay.

Anyways, you found it.

Sort of sort of there's a thing that's sort of the same, okay in my brain.

So that's where they are, and we just found Logain.

Oh yeah, that's exciting.

That's the thing, that's the important thing.

I went, oh, okay, fine, I guess he's here, all right.

They open the cell, they pull him out.

He is not looking good right now, but he's alive.

And then Andrel does the eye check and no, he has not been not been turned, so that's good.

And then Logaine recognized them except for Pavar, and he's like, who the heck are you and what adja do you belong to?

And she's like, doesn't matter, and he's like, yeah, yes it does.

But then there's no follow up to that, and again no time and there's no time for that now, because we should talk about this when.

We're you're rescuing you.

But and like I get, I also understand his skepticism.

Yeah, in everything that's been happening to him.

Up to this point, Yeah, like him being captured and trying to be personally turned to the.

Shadow, Like, yeah, he's had a hell of a time.

Yeah, he's had a bad time in fact, And then there is a whole conversation of like, okay, like is this maybe a trap for us?

Like is he turned?

But no, but like if he was turned, why would they leave him here?

And it's like because it's a trap, but like, are we really setting a trap for Andrel and Curve.

I actually think that if this was a trap for them, Yeah, then some of the smarter guys, yeah, would have set it.

And honestly, we don't need to set a trap for the for like Angrel and No exactly, we don't need to set a trap at the point of when we want to overpower them.

We are in a position to do so as the bad guys.

Yeah, because I think realistically, if they're attempting to set a trap, they're not going to leave it to Dobbs.

Yeah, they had to spill the beans on the secret again, Like.

I feel like they're actually going to subtly say it, like in passing on purpose.

Yeah, right, they're going to try to set that trap, whereas this they really got hooped.

Yeah.

Yeah, Like they got here and that's good, but now we have a difficult night ahead of over OUs alves because we got to get out.

Yeah, we got to get out of here, we got to low gain, but now we got the rest of the plan to.

Do still, and then Logan's like, okay, Andrel.

Make a gateway.

Makes the thing you do anyway, So Angrel freezes and slams the door, and then they all say there's powerful channeling coming and they can hear shouting coming, and it's like, oh, no, someone must have found those guards they killed and didn't have the bodies well enough, I guess.

Well they also would have just found the place unguarded.

Yeah, and there's there's also that.

Like even if they didn't find the guards, yeah dead.

Yeah.

So then they are like, hey, Logan, can you fight?

And turns out no, you can barely stand.

Maybe he's been given forek route so that or is exhausted anyways of view.

Yeah, it's it's it's overall, it's like a terrible situation.

We got to login, but now that's all we've been able to do.

Andrel shouts for everyone to get back, and then the door explodes and we kick off into a fight scene and Pavar's like flinging weaves down the corridor and she's cool with it because she knows that it's for sure.

Dark Eyes actually do like this very specific mention of it's not against the three Olds because I know I'm fighting bad guys.

Yeah, one hundred percent, Like this is when you were you know one hundred percent you were fighting either dark friends or earned people.

It's the accomplices of the dirt.

This is very life or desk situation.

So she can feel someone try to shield her, but then she's able to fight that back.

And then it turns out we can hear Time's voice, so apparently he's here or coming down the hallway like this is bad, and Logan keeps telling Angel to make a friggin gateway but he can't.

He's like, I'm trying, He's.

So close to doing it, but he can't.

Just get over the hump.

You know what I really thought was gonna happen here, just make a gateway.

Well, yes, but how I thought he was gonna make a gateway was Povara would link with him.

Yeah, like allow him that, because before he was like I can almost do it.

And then she's like, give me that back, right, give us the whole thing.

Yeah.

I thought maybe after all their bonding ye punintended.

Over the last two hours, Yeah.

That she would be like, okay, here you need help.

Yeah, give it another Let's give it one more.

Try bends down like hold his hat, and it's.

Like you can do it.

And this feels like a very life or death moment.

Yeah, she can feel that he's nearly there.

He's concentrating so hard.

Yeah, but then thump, thump, something weaves hit the room and then the roof gives out.

And everything goes black.

Yeah, because they get covered in dirt, and it's just like, this probably bad.

Not great.

My whole self wants to believe that there's some beautiful ending to the sequence where the gateway got made just in time.

Yeah, you know, and then all the rocks fall out onto wherever he made the gateway and the get out you okay, Yeah, it's.

Something like it's pretty explicit that they like it goes black because they get the roof falls in on them.

Yeah, until oh, the gateway's here, you know or something.

Sure, it doesn't really feel though.

It feels bad.

This doesn't feel good, you know.

There was actually one really cool part in the fight sequence.

There's battlefield healing where I think Jonathan out with the bowl gets burned really bad and then the lamb like battlefield heals him and gets him back in the fight.

Like I really do like the intricacy of the guy goes down, but with magical healing he can get back up again.

So well, I agree, I think that's good.

Yeah, but that's it for this chapter.

Yeah, I'm excited to read on.

Okay, I want to get into a groove and a momentum where we're reading, recording, reading, recording.

Yeah, if we could get into a groove.

Health and sickness needs to get in line with what we want to do.

There are those pieces, right, but I would like to do a bit of a push.

Okay, let's do it.

Let's get into this book.

Let's let's make a dent in it.

That's what I want.

I want to get into it right.

Because when we recorded our Q and A the other night, there had been probably about a week and a half between me reading this chapter and I was doing the Q and A.

And in that time I read a whole different book, like I read Thrown of Glass.

Yeah, and so I had to wrap my head around being back in a memory of Light.

And I was like, oh my gosh, I shouldn't just do that because that was hard for me.

So I got back into it today.

Now I'm into it.

Now I'm into Wheel of Time.

But then that also means that the second book.

Of well, we're gonna wrap it up and we're going to read one chapter for next episode.

Okay, it's like thirty pages said, it's a long one.

Okay, a lot of stuff.

I'll take it.

But that also means you got a ZipZap on getting ready.

Yes, we had to do notes, all right, and we got a record.

Soon okay like this week?

Yeah, like, don't wait till the last day.

Won't not gonna you promise?

Yeah?

Done?

Who are you promising me or everybody?

Yep?

Oh no, yep?

Whoa.

Okay, we'll see how that goes.

So before you go ahead and be completely wrong about Logan's whereabouts, I'm going to say that this is part of the pattern.

Now, yeah, it's part of the pattern.

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