[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to Kiffin's Keep and Intellectual Resource for the pillar and buttress of the Truth, which is the Church.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is a project of London Life Sea, which is all about serious thinking for a serious Church.

[SPEAKER_00]: I am Jordan Stefaniac.

[SPEAKER_00]: President of the London Life Sea, I am host of Kiffin's Keep and I am as always excited to be here with you all today.

[SPEAKER_00]: In today's episode, I'm recovering the topic of Christian philanthropy and his relationship to the local church and to Christian institutions.

[SPEAKER_00]: What's next for us?

[SPEAKER_00]: So before we do that, remember like to show or not like to show, subscribe to the show, so you don't miss any of the awesome content, like the video if you enjoyed it, and then do drop a comment with what you think.

[SPEAKER_00]: So this isn't super planned, sort of just disorganized random thoughts that I'm throwing up on you and I hope that they're useful.

[SPEAKER_00]: You tell me, hopefully you don't turn it off yet, don't turn it off yet just because you heard that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Not all these up, most of these episodes are more just generic outlines and they're not [SPEAKER_00]: and hopefully it's useful for you.

[SPEAKER_00]: So if you're a regular listener, I appreciate you tuning in.

[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you're a new listener, stay around, stick around for a little bit and tell me what you think.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, let's talk.

[SPEAKER_00]: I just did a podcast interview recently with Joshua Brown on his book on the sort of the turn and Christian higher education to a tuition driven model where we're kind of like leaving the mission for the, they're trying to preserve the mission because we have no money [SPEAKER_00]: really interesting conversation.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think you guys will enjoy it.

[SPEAKER_00]: It'll come out if it hasn't already when you on the Lennon Lysian podcast.

[SPEAKER_00]: But something that really caught my eye was when I was talking with him, what's the future of a Christian institution?

[SPEAKER_00]: Particularly when the old way of institutions is to be endowed so that you're not dependent on tuition for your revenue.

[SPEAKER_00]: The endowment is able to subsidize basically the entire academic process and it's based on this more elite sort of a residential based and you're able to survive because of large endowments.

[SPEAKER_00]: Most of these Christian institutions do not have large endowments and so they're dependent upon more students always coming in the door.

[SPEAKER_00]: And if they don't, then they closer doors.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so that puts tremendous pressure on these institutions to always be focused on the numbers or else you will go out of existence.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so what does that mean for the future of maintaining and preserving these institutions?

[SPEAKER_00]: And he was discussing sort of like, I think we need to be creative.

[SPEAKER_00]: We need to be creative in our giving.

[SPEAKER_00]: So those who have large sums of money should be creative in the sense of, don't give to institutions that already have existing large endowments be more intentional than that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Give to institutions that can actually use that and see significantly more impact over the long term from that.

[SPEAKER_00]: I get it, you may not get your statue at the institution that you like, but you do something else.

[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe you'll have exponentially more impact than the kingdom.

[SPEAKER_00]: But also it just makes me think like the regular person who has limited funds, what do they do with it?

[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously they're going to give a portion of it to their local church, then they give it to individuals and need in their community.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I don't have much left over for Christian institutions.

[SPEAKER_00]: So how is it that they can support and encourage these institutions to be able to continue to exist?

[SPEAKER_00]: Institutions that there's been a proliferation, especially given the growth of online ministries, where there's now these different areas of ministry or institutions that are trying to grow.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I think of buckets.

[SPEAKER_00]: You've got colleges that are old.

[SPEAKER_00]: They actually have real residential presences.

[SPEAKER_00]: Some colleges have significantly larger online presences.

[SPEAKER_00]: How do you help them?

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I think I don't know how you help them other than give them more students or donate huge sums of money if you have a lot of money.

[SPEAKER_00]: So if you have no money, you just encourage students to go there and you make sure that the administration is [SPEAKER_00]: why's and understands that it's not all about tuition.

[SPEAKER_00]: How can we diversify ourselves in such a way that we are not dependent on tuition to be a functioning university or college or whatever it is?

[SPEAKER_00]: So a lot of that would then come down to, how do I get to be an influential member of this particular community beyond the board?

[SPEAKER_00]: Give my voice, wisdom, advice, discussion.

[SPEAKER_00]: Some of it is, I need to create, you need to create institutions, create small things that then maybe the Lord bless us and then become big things.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, they don't have to be big things to be faithful to the Lord.

[SPEAKER_00]: They can be really small and even for a season.

[SPEAKER_00]: And they can be useful.

[SPEAKER_00]: But some people need to invest their resources and their time and their vision into creating things.

[SPEAKER_00]: Creating things alongside that supplement and encourage and build up the church.

[SPEAKER_00]: do that.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think there are more we need more things, not less things, more not fewer, if that's I guess the right term for that.

[SPEAKER_00]: But also, we need to invest in some of these newer, smaller or potentially growing to be larger.

[SPEAKER_00]: institutions or many institutions.

[SPEAKER_00]: I use that word lightly.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I guess you could think of some things like TGC.

[SPEAKER_00]: That seems almost now that they're almost like a legacy institution of sorts.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're not they don't have a physical presence, but they obviously have an online presence.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's why arranging they've got a simple large number of readers.

[SPEAKER_00]: They seem to have a large number of funds.

[SPEAKER_00]: Do they need resources and help.

[SPEAKER_00]: bracket out the whole like ideological takes just from a purely pragmatic standpoint doesn't institution like that or Christianity today needs your money.

[SPEAKER_00]: No, I don't think they do to continue to be sustained.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now, the other question is, should they continue to be sustained?

[SPEAKER_00]: That's another one.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think I don't know.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't follow TTC.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't really follow TTC.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't really follow T, Christianity today either, so I can't really comment.

[SPEAKER_00]: with real robustness, I just see sometimes really ridiculous stupid things on the internet that makes me think, why do you exist?

[SPEAKER_00]: But that's not either here nor there.

[SPEAKER_00]: What about other smaller institutions?

[SPEAKER_00]: Mirror orthodoxy, you're probably familiar with them, dabbing it institute.

[SPEAKER_00]: It might be familiar with us, the London I see him and Hanover Press, or other sort of smaller groups.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think you should support them by buying their resources, by volunteering your time, by sharing their resources far and wide, and then by donating what you can.

[SPEAKER_00]: For small institutions, [SPEAKER_00]: little donations go a long way.

[SPEAKER_00]: I know some of them have million dollar budgets.

[SPEAKER_00]: Some of them like us have $10,000 budgets.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, so a bunch of people give them five bucks can make a huge difference.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that's why for us anyway, we've put together a 25 and 25 campaign.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're trying to raise 20 from 2025 to be able to really kickstart some of the resources we're trying to create.

[SPEAKER_00]: because if you didn't know, creating resources costs money, costs not only just time, not only expertise, but it costs money to do things well.

[SPEAKER_00]: And how do you do that without having people who are committed to saying, that's valuable.

[SPEAKER_00]: I see the long-term impact in value of that and I want to support that.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to give to do that.

[SPEAKER_00]: And a lot of times we're asking, very small sums, very small commitment levels.

[SPEAKER_00]: Something that everybody can do.

[SPEAKER_00]: I understand for an audience like ours, a lot of our pastors, students or professors, people of meager salaries.

[SPEAKER_00]: People who don't have means to give right of huge $200,000 check.

[SPEAKER_00]: Some people have that means and need to be poked and prodded and say, use your money more wisely.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's not worth it to have your 15th investment property, give it to an institution that it can change the future of Christian education [SPEAKER_00]: do that instead.

[SPEAKER_00]: But there are a lot of people who are followers of like our work and others, I would think of dabbing at me or the doxie that don't have money.

[SPEAKER_00]: They don't have $200,000.

[SPEAKER_00]: They would think $200,000.

[SPEAKER_00]: That would fund me for the next 10 years.

[SPEAKER_00]: What do I do with all that money?

[SPEAKER_00]: I can quit my job and read and write all the time.

[SPEAKER_00]: You don't have money, but I can guarantee you you had $5 to go get that ridiculously bad Starbucks coffee last week that you could turn and say, once a month, I'm going to give that to my orthodoxy.

[SPEAKER_00]: Once a month, I'm going to give that to these things.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that's not me saying that you should give to these various organizations.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think you should give to the London, I see him in hand of a press, because I believe in their mission.

[SPEAKER_00]: I believe in what they're doing and I believe in the resources that they're trying to [SPEAKER_00]: Creating academic books, there's not a space for this.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's not a traditional classic reform Protestant publisher that is doing academic publishing anywhere.

[SPEAKER_00]: Doesn't exist.

[SPEAKER_00]: None, not a zilch.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we should do what we can to create, sustain, build these things for the future for the next 20, 50, 100 years.

[SPEAKER_00]: Not just the next five years.

[SPEAKER_00]: money goes to us does not fund anyone's salaries like I've made zero dollars from working for the London Lysium.

[SPEAKER_00]: I have simply given up my own money to make it happen.

[SPEAKER_00]: And a lot of others have to.

[SPEAKER_00]: They give it in their time, their sweat, the resources, their sleepless nights, all these different things to make in a reality because we believe that it's helping and serving and encouraging others.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you agree, then you should be giving, and you should go give $5 now, or give $25 now, $25 and 25, that makes sense, do it, $250 and $25, $25, and $25, or $2,025.

[SPEAKER_00]: All that said, I think, and so those are some practical ways to support us and to support other institutions that you can think of.

[SPEAKER_00]: Christian institutions that are trying to grow.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I think if there's other cool things that are going on, the Center for Religion and Democracy, they're funded, I think.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know the funding structure for it, but I think a law firm helps sort of like subsidize that.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's cool.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's creative.

[SPEAKER_00]: We need more of that.

[SPEAKER_00]: We need business owners being smart.

[SPEAKER_00]: saying, I don't want to just invest in myself and my business.

[SPEAKER_00]: I want to invest in the next generation of Christian thinkers and scholars that can then resource all these different church members and everything.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think there's value in it.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think there's value in all sorts of unique cool things and we just need to be committed to be creative with our generosity.

[SPEAKER_00]: What needs to happen is that I've found that many in the Christian evangelical church are penny pinchers.

[SPEAKER_00]: in the wrong sense, they're overly prudent with their funds.

[SPEAKER_00]: I've got to max out my 401k.

[SPEAKER_00]: I've got to do all these different things before I then am generous to someone else.

[SPEAKER_00]: And a lot of that has been produced from the Dave Ramsey-ish type of financial decisions, where it's like, I can't help somebody until I've totally maximized and protected myself, and don't obviously, that's not what's going on.

[SPEAKER_00]: But [SPEAKER_00]: Oftentimes, there can be an aura where that sort of approach says, I can't be generous to these people until I've checked the box on all these things.

[SPEAKER_00]: How dare I have two dollars on my credit card statement at the end of the month.

[SPEAKER_00]: I cannot give you $10 in this moment because that would do that.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's silly and it can become an excuse in an obstacle and impediment to generosity.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think many in the Christian evangelical church need to be pushed and poked and prodded and say, be a little bit dangerous in your generosity.

[SPEAKER_00]: expand yourself, push yourself a little bit, consider the potential options.

[SPEAKER_00]: And also, there is some level of shrink what you're doing.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then you'll have a little bit left over to give to these other institutions.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I guarantee you, you'll find yourself making a bigger impact, longterm.

[SPEAKER_00]: You may not see the dotted lines, but come, [SPEAKER_00]: the next side when the Lord resurrects us and how it works where we can see all the amazing story of history where God tells it to us and shows it to us.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think you're going to find that those sort of investments were worth it.

[SPEAKER_00]: You were far more than consuming various goods and services.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was really great to give and do those things.

[SPEAKER_00]: So what I'm trying to say is like, we need to rethink Christian philanthropy.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now, what I'm not saying is that Christian organizations deserve your money or require your money or that Christian people serving in various ministerial positions require a certain amount of funds.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm not also saying that they should be completely penniless.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like I think there's an extreme danger on both sides, but I also think that the loss of Paul is very clear, do not muzzle the oxen, those who labor in various things deserve their wages.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now, that's not me saying that we at various institutions deserve your money and whatever else.

[SPEAKER_00]: There is a fine clear balance for what Christian philanthropy looks like, both for those who don't have means and those who do have means.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I really just wanted to sort of like reflect on that and discuss it a little bit.

[SPEAKER_00]: I hope that this is a little bit clarity.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And the more surprised we have to do that, the more we're able to produce, [SPEAKER_00]: more books, more journals, more essays.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And it helps people, the more stuff we're able to give away for free, it's amazing.

[SPEAKER_00]: So give, subscribe, I encourage you, please, subscribe if you haven't done it today.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, there's a lot of you guys who've heard this, who've done this and you've never done it, I encourage you, just do it.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's going to make a big difference for us, but not just us think about other institutions that touch your lives that are that are important in your communities and your local communities, there are probably Christian organizations that can use you, whether that's your [SPEAKER_00]: Whether that's your money or that's your brain and your vision and your ideas, or whether that's your actual skill, and your lawyer, and you can offer pro bono your skills, or maybe your software engineer, and you can help retool something.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's all sorts of creative ways that you can give [SPEAKER_00]: to help various organizations and not just local church.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm not saying stop supporting your local church and the local church is like, I'm not trying to say any of those things, just saying we need to be creative because various institutions matter and are very important.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's not just the local church or bust and that's all we have in this world.

[SPEAKER_00]: We are supposed to build and create and sustain and all these other things are helping to educate and to teach and to train and to do all these things alongside the church and support of it.

[SPEAKER_00]: So all these things apart are part and partial of what it means to be a Christian in the world.

[SPEAKER_00]: We need more of them and we need more people to be thinking creatively about how to do that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Let me know what you think.

[SPEAKER_00]: Drop some comments and thoughts.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'd love to hear if you have ideas or thoughts or if there were organizations that you respect and think more people need to know about them and give to them.

[SPEAKER_00]: Drop a comment.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'd love to learn more about them and check them out.

[SPEAKER_00]: Leave the website and tell me why you think they're awesome.

[SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, I look forward to thinking with you all with you all soon.