My name is Tatasha Bamblet.

I'm a proud First Nations woman and I'm here to acknowledge country t glennyan Ganya Niana, kaka ya Ya bin ahaka Nian our gay in Mbina yakarum jar dominyamiga Umagahawakawaman damon imlan Bumba bang Gadabomba in and now in wakah ghana on yakraum jar Watnadaa.

Hello, beautiful friends, we gather on the lands of the Aboriginal people.

We thank acknowledge and respect the Aberiginal people's land that we're gathering on today.

Take pleasure in all the land and respect all that you see.

She's on the Money podcast acknowledges culture, country, community and connections, bringing you the tools, knowledge and resources for you to thrive.

She's on the Money.

She's on the Money.

Hello and welcome to She's on the Money.

Have you and your bestie ever had a genius business idea over a glass of wine and thought we could actually do this.

I'm Victoria Devine, and today I'm chatting with two women who didn't just dream it up, they actually went for it.

You've probably seen their cakes all over your Instagram feed.

Colorful and just as fun as they are, but behind the butter cream is a seriously impressive business story.

Alice Bennett is the brains behind Miss Tricksie Drinks tea, famous for her pancakes and vintage style piping.

She started out as a soul trader baking from home and has grown her hustle into a thriving business.

Joining her is Alisha Henderson, the creative force behind Sweet Bakes.

She turned her whimsical hand painted cakes into a full blown company, has published two cookbooks, and even can heated on the TV show Dessert Masters.

Together, they went ahead and launched cobake Space, a dreamy pastor kitchen and creative hub built on community over competition.

My friends, welcome to the show.

Thank you.

I am very excited about this.

Having ordered and received both of your products before, I was like, what the hell our producer and.

I don't know have you heard of And I was like, yes, my show, I'm obsessed.

But like, let's dive into everything about you guys.

Let's go back to the very beginning.

Tell us about how you first got into baking.

When did it stop being like just for fun and become a business.

Well.

I started Miss Tixie Drinks Tea as a blog when I was in UNI, Like if I'm really rewinding, I know.

I know.

I was reading it.

Yes, we love Yes, had a glow up yes, yeah, since then.

So it was a little you know, blogspot page and I was just publishing my love for desserts whilst I was studying marketing and PR at UNI posted on Instagram too, Yeah, I did well.

I was a little slight Instagram, but I finally got there with you know, those gorgeous like CPR filters.

It was perfect.

It was my aesthetic at the time.

It was great.

I ran the business as a side hustle whilst I worked in marketing and PR.

And then when COVID hit, I lost my job in COVID, which was fine, We're all like all fine for it, and it was you know, I mean, I've mourned it, I've grieved it.

You know, we're past it.

It's fine.

Therapy with therapies and I when we were in lockdown, I decided that giving Mystericksy Drinks Tea a real crack would be like why not, Like I had nothing to lose, So I did that and I came up with these pun message cakes that seemed to really hit and match the mood at the time, and they really took off and I just haven't looked back.

So like my hand was forced to go from side hustle to full time thing, but like I genuinely wouldn't change.

A thing, ador, what about you?

This job that I currently have in the world of cake is the only professional career I have had, which I think is actually quite unusual for a lot of people.

I think, particularly in food, it is someone's passion or hobby that becomes a full time gig.

But I've been doing this since I was nineteen, So this is my twelfth year in business.

I was at UNI studying a.

You're only twenty one, how I was a media child.

At math No, but this is, yeah, certainly not where I thought I was going to be.

I was studying a journalism degree at university, love writing, love the media aspect of things, and like Alice, was posting on the platform called Instagram and just had people pay attention to what I was doing as a little side project.

So as most broke union students do, they go, oh, isn't this a fun way to make some pocket money?

And that is how sweet fakes and my professional career was born and I haven't looked back.

I love this and there's just something so exciting to me as someone who adores small business, when small business is genuinely born of passion, Like it's just like thing that you were doing because you loved it, not like I'm going to sit down and work out what kind of business I could make some cash from.

Because you can just feel that energy in the brand, absolutely in the content that comes out, and like I can make greens cakes, I can make some Betty crust.

I mean, I'm proud of you for at least getting the mixing bowl out.

That's very good kitchen ate.

Yes, well I do is it ornamental or are we ornamental?

It would suit your aesthetic.

It's the pastor blue heritage for ye to me.

And I was like, why maybe after today is a little chat, you'll be more inspired to actually crack.

I'm just going to keep buying your cakes, so don't tell anybody.

Let's talk a lot about I guess this side hustle thing right, Like a lot of our community are side hustlers, which wh I'm obsessed with.

How did you juggle going from having other jobs before going all in, because like this stuff involves I would say, a significant investment in time, in money, in creative Like you've got to pull it all together and you're doing it all yourself.

How did you know when the right time was to take the leap and kind of back your own business full time instead of kind of like UNI and this or work and this.

I think for me it was about judging what there could be.

I could feel the buzz building, so it wasn't like I just threw myself in without having that customer base or the attention on me.

It's like when I felt that that attention was there from the Instagram and the emails and the orders, I decided to go full time with it when I really felt like, okay, like I'm not throwing myself in with absolutely no one who cares.

I was during the appitets here I've tested, Yes exactly.

I did run my very basic nineteen year old numbers and be like, all right, if I can take on six weddings a week, like that is absolutely a sustainable income for me at this point in time.

And I think my mindset to being young was why not.

Actually, to be honest, I think I'm still like that.

I feel I come from a family who I know are going to support me through whatever I do, and I'm always going to have a couch to crash on.

Yeah, I pictured my worst case scenario and my worst case Pretically, I'm like, if this doesn't work out, I actually have a safety net behind me, So why wouldn't I just have a crack?

I love that.

Yeah, and mine wasn't too dissimilar.

Like even when I lost my job in COVID and I was doing the cakes during lockdown, you know, people were really responding to what I was putting out and I am relatively risk averse, So in the back of my mind, I was like, I can go back to production and events and PR there is like a safety network there.

But I had spent you know, in those side hustle years that was like pivotal brand building moments, so I was actually, you know, I was building a follower base, a community like that was all happening in those side hustle days.

So like the risk felt less because I had the follow up base obviously in lockdown, like I didn't have a full time job to fall back on, so it was like, well, I'm giving it a crack and it's working.

Yeah.

And so then when it came to like we came out of lockdown and I was like presented with do I go back to production or do I do Miss Tricksie, It felt like a safe option.

It didn't feel too risky to me.

Yeah, And Alicia, you said something just before you like I did my nineteen year old numbers.

I actually think that there is something so beautiful about the naivity.

There because you're.

Because if you did the numbers today about starting a business, I just know that you'd have so much more knowledge.

And don't get me wrong, like we all want that knowledge.

That's why I have a literal podcast to share it.

Yes, but you kind of just go.

Can't be that hard, No.

And I Chasing enthusiasm is also an option, Like life is so boring and so serious.

Sometimes it is just fun to chase your passion or your enthusiasm.

And if it doesn't work out, like all good, what happened.

But much rather have the experience and try something rather than rather than not.

I don't want to get to the end of my life and look, I can be like God, I wish I did that thing.

I'm happy to like try it all and see what sticks.

Yeah, I love it.

And did you do delusional numbers at the start, And.

Oh my god, absolutely be rich.

I was nineteen and doing those numbers because you know, I was like, you know, I was comparing it to like a very safe salary in production, which you know was was great.

I think I really like the idea of being able to work for myself, be able to like working cake every single day, Like it's actually a privileged to be able to do what we do in this I'm like, I get to make cakes.

Like last week I was making a Barbie cake covered in lollies and I literally had moments.

I was like, I cannot believe this is my life, Like that's insane.

People would kill to be able to do that.

Every single day.

I get to play with butter cream and cake, Like what a joy?

I eat a lot of it.

Yeah, all the time, absolutely, every all the time.

Every day.

I think I always say, if we stop eating our own cake, well something's gone wrong.

Yeah, other and each other's no, I will tell each other best friends.

I feel like.

It works very well for like bribery, Like I'm just kidding, We've got something that we can bribe people with.

And I would like to point out that I've also married the right man, right, so he only likes the cake and not the butter cream.

So whenever we get cake, I get all the butter creams.

And that is don't lie, that's the best beer.

So cute exactly.

I need to know the energy between you two is I don't know, it's electric, Like it's really fun.

I want to be more involved in this.

How did you two meet and then go, oh, this friendship is more than a friendship, it's a business, like give us the meat cute story lay.

So it's a classic case of us like following each other on Instagram and admiring each other from.

Afar fangirling fan going my far very.

Very like intently messaging.

That's sick, amazing love that.

You know all of that, that's the energy that we want as women, proper cheerlead.

We have not even met.

Yeah, we had not even met yet, so that was like like that was energy from the get go.

And then we both got invited to go along to this like pastry very formal, very formal pastry workshop thing with this world leader in pastry.

We walked in separately, but we were both very clearly not in chef whites.

You know, we only too Yeah, the only.

Outfits, so cute outfits make up on looking great.

We were like, hey, hey, you want to hang out and that was the first moment that we met, and we just had such a great day.

And needless to say, we also did the best chef.

It was very.

Precious, so legally blonde, like, never underestimate a couple of girls in pink because they might just be literal mirror like.

It's hardly and the world paid chef was so impressed by us, and we were just like love this for us.

And then yeah, I shortly moved to London just after that, so we stayed in touch.

I know, really rude.

So the friendship kind of took like a distant It was a bit of a distant relationship for a couple of years.

Totally still high queens online though, that's for sure.

We circled back when we decided we both wanted to work together share kitchens.

We were both already working in separate shared kitchens in suburbs that were actually quite far out from where we lived, so we sort of struck up the conversation as professional friends.

I mean, we've come together not as like friends who grew up together.

We've always been work friends.

So yeah, we caught up for coffee one day and said, look, if you ever want to change locations to somewhere that's like a little bit more central for.

Us, I'd love to share a kitchen with you.

And that was like the original jumping off point for us to start having conversations about our partnership.

Didn't even know shared kitchens were a thing.

Yes, they are, Like I work in finance, guys.

Yeah, I mean it's so cute.

They're not typically like as involved with one another as like ours are a bit more like ghost kitchen.

You know, you might just do it by the hour.

And that was the other dilemma that we had because we were investigating that, but it was like incredibly expensive, and that's why we were like, if we actually just did this together and took on a commercial building together, then ye, which you.

Do need to share.

For a lot of small to medium sized businesses in the food space, the outgoings are insane, Like food margins are really really tight.

It's a hard game to be in.

So sharing a kitchen was always a no brainer for us.

You guys said before, Oh, like, we haven't known each other forever, and like, you could absolutely for me.

And I love the idea that you guys are You're like, I don't know, you're hyping each other up, and like, I just think that there's not enough of that that goes on in literally any industry that involves women.

I feel like sometimes we look at people and because we are maybe not confident enough, we see them as competition instead of like friends who also are going through the same struggles.

You guys have managed to go completely across that.

Yeah, and then I look at your new business, the one that you have together, Cobake Space, and it just feels like it's so collaboration over competition, and that's the energy we love to have, right, Like, sorry, I don't care if you're new to this, come along, I'll show you everything.

And I think that a lot of people assume, oh my gosh, I wouldn't want to give all of my tips and tricks away because if I do that, they'll copy me.

It can't be you, nor can they actually put the time and energy and effort and work in that you have over the years.

Why did that become such a big part of your vision.

Like from my perspective, I'm like that makes sense, of course, But for a lot of others they might go, why would.

You do that?

I think this whole scarcity mindset sort of underpins people who do feel that way, and I think both Alice and I absolutely do not have that in us.

I think it is honestly natural to us.

I hope that will become a case study for why you don't need to be that way one day.

But it's like going into Mecca, right, and it's like if you went to Mecca and you only purchased one beauty product there, right, you only shop from one brand as a beauty enthusiast, Like, that's never going to happen.

Or you love food and eating out, You're never going to go to one restaurant for the rest of your life.

So why would we have this mentality that I make cakes, so therefore I have to compete with you.

I can't share that with you.

My customers want to come and eat cake from me, but they love cakes, so they're going to come to Alis for a different occasion.

So that's always been very important to us to acknowledge that our consumers actually have a brain for themselves and we can share the opportunities around and.

We can do that for people who come into Kobake as well.

Like, we exactly love being able to, you know, talk to other business owners and share our knowledge and have like an open two way conversation.

And also like the world's pretty cook So it's a.

It's a much nicer world the year.

Yeah, it's like a much nicer world to live in the world where we are like cheerleaders for one another rather than seeing each other as competition or or other businesses that come into Kobake as well.

Like, it is a far nicer want to plan and it's so fun.

I can't explain to you how I have such a feedback loop for other people's whims.

I truly do.

There is something so exciting about watching someone so close to you or in the same building as you celebrate something achieve something like that feels just as good as when I do it myself.

It's such a wonderful part of our coback journey.

Yeah, I love it all right, I am going to stop us here.

We've got to take a really quick break.

And on the flip side, I'm going to want all the tea on literally what it's like to own a business with a friend.

So guys, don't go anywhere, all.

Right, welcome back before the break.

We heard how it started, how you met that maybe nineteen year old delusional numbers are actually a really great place to start.

But now I want to get to the part that everybody.

Kind of wonders about what happens when you mix your mates with your money, because it sounds so much fun but also like really scary, and as somebody who has had failed business partnerships, I'm in or I'm like, oh my god, I wish that it had worked out for me, but what has been the best and then also the hardest part of running a business together?

So I think for us, the reason why it works is because we both respect another.

I think respect is like literally the core ingredient for a business relationship to stem from a friendship, because if you don't respect one another, or if you feel threatened by the other person, or like deep deep in new you feel jealous or whatever, those of course those feelings are going to come to the surfers.

So I think for us, like the idea that like, I have so much respect for what Alisha has done with sweet Bakes, and I know she feels the same way towards my business.

So having that and knowing that that was like the foundation of our friendship, it made sense for us to go into business together because we knew that feelings of jealousy, competition, feeling threatened by one another they weren't there, like they're just they didn't.

They simply just didn't exist for us.

So I think that's how we could actually take it to a business relationship.

I think some of the challenges that are inevitable are I'm someone who is like a bit of a move fuss and break things, bake things.

You know, either way that that phrase work.

So I think the hardest challenge for me is now in a partnership is like, Okay, we have to have to slow down because we need to have a discussion about it before we can just like.

Move move, move, move move.

But in the same degree, that's held me more accountable to make really solid decisions that I actually back and having someone to bounce that off.

So it has maybe like slowed down my natural pace in a way, but we have better communication and make better decisions because we actually have to go back and forth with each other but I mean this is our third We're approaching three years of Kobek, which sounds cool, crazy that it's gone.

So having a.

Party with cake absolutely sun the lace as well.

Oh yeah we need to do that mental notecap.

Yeah we.

Can have a third birthday.

I think the other reason why we work is like our skill set and our backgrounds are slightly different.

So obviously I used to work marketing, p our production, that's my background.

I was in agency land, which if anyone works in a marketing or PA, he knows how tough it is.

I come from a very like regimented background, so like I would come to a meeting with like, oh, here's a spreadsheet and like this is how I want calendar invites to look like, and da da da da da, and Alisha is not quite like.

That, not in the slides, Like you were tiptoeing around that and you were like, oh no, raw dogget that's fine.

No, that's not my journey.

I think I'm more of like, well no, because I just stroll it out there and it might actually just be fabulous anyway, you know.

I Also I get a lot of joy out of being like incredibly organized, whereas you're just like, oh well whatever.

No feedbackward is that also one of the hardest things because like, I work in a team and that feels like ying and yang.

But like you need someone who's got their stuff together, but you also need the person who's like, just try it.

My work though, well, but I guess it might work.

I think again, that's why that respect piece is so important, because it's like, I respect the way in which Alisha works, and she respects the way I work.

So there's not I'm not going to be like, well, you're create like hello, I'm just like no, that's how Relasia's brains work, and it gives you another perspective.

So I think it's also really important.

I love that.

And what would your advice be for my community who are like, oh, I've been thinking about starting a business with a friend, what do you reckon?

You would tell them, Well, I think because we didn't come from a place of traditional friendship, it's always been a professional relationship.

I would say that they obviously has to be conversations about your values as a professional that needs to be in played.

I don't think it's just about the synergy of your like, oh my god, but I love this person.

I hang out with them and we have the best time together and we never fight.

It's really about your values around money, around business that have to be absolutely aligned before you jump off into anything.

And it really isn't for anyone.

I feel like we do.

We hear so many horror stories of people.

Saying like I can't do this with a partner, Yeah, because I think entre accountant said he's never setting up another shared.

No.

We want to be that example that that it is possible.

Yeah, totally, And what do you reckon el us?

No?

I agree.

I think when we were looking to do it and look looking into venturing into this business partnership, and I know I'm harping on about the respect, but like we we really truly respected each other's ideas.

Nothing was ever shot down like I think you've you've got to, Like we gave each other the airtime to be able to talk about certain things, and we could identify very early on, like what our roles in the business would be as well, So like we do have like we we tackle different things because our brains do them better.

So it's like you know, in Kobak, I would do like the invoicing and the booking agreements and the emails and stuff, and Alisha's like, I can do all the website stuff because like your skill is in like you can do that, whereas I'm the idea.

Yeah, you're more creative than I am.

So yeah, perfect.

I've broken our website before him also down from our website nightmare, good good.

You two are very alike.

You don't go into a partnership.

We will admire each other from a distance.

Look, I want to go down a little bit more of a like formal business route, right, so like my brain automatically goes to like structures and how you decided to set up your business and Alice you started down the sole trader route and Alicia you went ahead and you were like, I'm going to set up a company.

And both of those two things are completely different but also make sense one for both of you.

But then also you could have swapped probably at the start and had similar structures.

And then with the Kobake space, you guys have gone down a partnership model.

Can you talk us through why you made these choices and kind of what the differences are, because it's not just like, oh, we went into business together, Like there's structure.

There's actually TUXX we have to talk about.

I actually need to talk about responsibilities and it would be a.

Miss of me to not ask about this stuff on shee'ese.

On the money, of course, well, I was a soul trader for a number of years, solopreneur for almost ten years.

To be honest, it wasn't until we actually moved into the premise of kbake space that I switched to a company.

And those reasons for me and Sweet Bakes was because I had some big plans about the way that Sweetbakes was structured.

I want people to choose cake instead of sending a bunch of flowers.

I want people to send a cake.

I do just so NIU excellent.

That's why we love excellent choice.

That was always my sort of ethos moving into Kobac and the way that I wanted to take Sweet Bakes.

To do that, I needed to make some really big corporate partnerships and some wholesale arrangements.

So obviously that comes with all those other liabilities and all those gorgeous sexy things and insurances.

So with that and my staff that I now have, structuring it as a company is just far more beneficial to us when we're working at such a scale.

I'm sure for Alice, her focus is on speaking on your behalf because I know you so well.

Is very much about that beautiful personalized, customized service which is a little bit more one on one which doesn't require that.

And then the structure of Kobake being a partnership.

I think that really sets the tone of what we do that it is a fifty to fifty partnership and the expectation from us, both financially and effort wise, is fifty to fifty, and that's what that partnership really really acknowledges.

I mean, it's like we can be very casual about it in the way that we do our day to day stuff.

You know, it's not regimented the way that we go about Kobake.

But at the bottom line of it, I think it really solidifies like we are in this absolutely equally together.

Yeah.

I always get a little bit of a red fight because I'm pervy, right.

I don't think anybody has ever accused me of being like modest or like, oh no, it's not my business, so I.

Never want to be modest.

Interested are like oh, like I don't like gossip.

I'm like, oh, no, I love that, Like I don't want to be involved, but like I want to hear what your neighbors, friend's cousin did.

I just want to hear it.

So like, if I see a new business that's been like on my Instagram feed, I might might do a little as sick look up.

And to me, one of the biggest red flags is when I see a new business arise and it's like forty nine fifty one and I'm like, oh, there's a power play there, Like that's not to me, that's not gonna work.

And don't get me wrong, my business benches haven't worked for a plethora of different reasons, but it's never ever been not fifty fifty because I go, no, we come to this together, Like if we're not coming on equal playing fields, why are we even doing this?

Yes, so there's a conversation around that, did you ever consider any other type of split?

No?

But also I think understanding the way that we do Kobake Kobak is supplementary to our foundation business.

Alice has a thriving business.

I have a thriving business.

So I think the expectation for Kobak to be this big crazy thing isn't there either, So coming to the table equally actually just makes far more sense and the pressure is off in a way, which I think is probably.

Why it's working so well for us.

Because our foundational business as Mimss, Tricksy and Sweetbags, those are the ones that give us a salary.

Kobake works for a different reason.

For us, it's supplementary and it's fun.

For us, it's fun, it's to start honestly, so I can come play.

It's allowed us to generate income for those separate businesses via Cobake.

There are collaborations that we do that come into the Kobake building.

So for example, say Merry People Gumboats came into a gorgeous pop up with us and sold their viral gun boots that you can typically only buy online.

They wanted to do an in person experience.

They came to kobake space and we provided them gum boot cookies and cupcakes.

So Kobake obviously generated an income by the higher of the space, but then Sweet Bakes and Miss Trixie also ended up getting a lick of the ice.

Cream because we provided treats for the events.

So Kobake has yeah, allowed us to collaborate and generate more income in that sense too.

And I have financial advisors and mortgage brokers come in and decorate finance cupcakes.

It's honestly more fun when we bring in people that are so so far removed from food.

We get a lot of.

Sporting organizations come football ist do cake decorating classes.

They're good, yeay're good.

They lock in, they get really focused and it becomes competitive.

Do you know what I was about to say.

It's about the competition.

If there's people they're like, well I'm going.

To do it better.

Yeah, absolutely, And we do encourage it.

We do the healthy competition.

See, that's the fun side of the business.

And then if we like slip it, I would say that the admin side sucks.

Like don't get me wrong, I adore being in business, but you've got the like rough end of the stick, Alice, with being in the spreadsheets and doing all the invoices, like that stuff just kind of sucks.

How do you keep on top of invoices and expenses and all of that not so fun stuff like and I also want to know, like how did you choose what to do in terms of systems to then free up your time so that you can actually focus on the fun footballer decorating guys.

I think both of us, like for Miss CHICKSI Swebigs and Kobak, we're pretty regimented in terms of like carving out time to actually do the admin.

And I think it's also about flipping the fact that like, yes, it can be seen as quite boring and it's not the creative fun cake decorating, but it's an essential part of the business and it's so important to be in the weeds of that.

It's important to see like the money coming in, the money going out, doing the invoicing, Like having that visibility over your business will also like completely dispel your anxiety over it.

So I think it's just incredibly important.

With Kobak, Yeah, we have like allocated time.

In fact, this is our Quebec whip time, so like we would typically like carve out time and we can.

Talk about anything.

Yeah, well it's perfect.

It's like I feel like all.

We were just like you need to invoice key client today, like.

Over a long long coffee.

Yeah.

Perfect.

Yeah, So we're very regimented in terms of that.

But I just think it is like you know, admin is going to be part of the parcel in any business that you start or any job truly, Like even when I worked in production, it's like you do a big activation and then you'd be invoicing suppliers or what have you.

So it's a part of its genuinely just part of life.

But I think if you can flip it to see that it's going to give you transparency in your business, that's a benefit.

Yet, and there's different aspects of it that we both enjoy.

In the admin category, like you are you love obviously the lists and the spreadsheets.

I love the stats.

I love a P and L.

I'm like, I want to know about what's going in, what's going out, and where we're at and projecting.

I love how you're generating that.

Like what type of software are you through moyob?

Yeah?

Okay, cool, very cool?

And at what point did you decide do you know what we're going to start playing moyob because like that for a lot of small business owners Because you mentioned spreadsheets before, I used to run my entire business on spreadsheets, right like I would.

Made my chet start racing.

Oh my god, I'm sorry, do you want to see them because they're still sexy.

I still think they're flex but like I used to do all my own p and ls on spreadsheets, all of my own balance sheets, spreadsheets, payroll spreadsheets.

But that obviously leaves a lot of room for error.

But I was trying to be so frugal when I started my business because I was like, well, I don't have any extra cash.

I'm not even paying myself, let alone like yes and ad in software.

At what point did you decide, all right, well let's invest in this because a lot of people go, oh, it's really expensive.

I could do it myself, and I don't know about you, but I got shot in the foot and realized how much time I could save and was like, well.

This is I'm lucky that I had very good role models growing up.

My father is self employed and my mom did his book keeping, so I know, I feel genius a little bit lucky that.

I saw how that could be modeled and the efficiencies of that kind of procedure.

And also, like Alice said, I found it really empowering to be in my books and I don't want to do this word truths.

So like someone can auto generate and every day I can be logging on automatically and seeing how the business is tracking like that is huge.

Huge, Yeah, the automated systems, like I use moob as well for my mysters and it, Yeah, definitely has made a massive difference in terms of just like the automation and the fact that it's given me back time sometimes like to do like a bit of a double check.

Like on I still do as well, and then I'm always humbled.

I'm oh, yeah they were right.

Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I just didn't want it to be right.

You know how much tax will be.

I'm like that, Yeah, I'm not interested that wasn't tried various platforms, I think.

I mean, the reason that I use myo B now is purely because that's my accountants preference, but I have tried various platforms over the years.

For me, it's also a lot about like the plugins and the things you can add and like, I don't know about you guys, but like I have like done all.

Of my like outputs.

It saved them as favorites.

So all I do is go in and hit balances and like, yeah, it just generates the balance sheet that I'm looking for because I know that I have my I don't know, if you guys do this and I'm about to ask for.

A good night, did you get about this, ton't.

I have my own little meeting with myself once a month because it turns out is just mean business for yourself.

But I go through all of my numbers and like compare it to the month before, and like, I know what I want to compare, but I also don't want to have to go through and like tick every box every single time, So I just like saved them as like my monthly favorite balance cheap or my tearly balanced it and like that stuff.

It saves time, but it means that I don't know about you guys, the mental load of being like, oh my god, I have to sit down.

It's actually really easy.

Yeah.

So yeah, when I got to that point, I was like, oh, maybe this extra casholder is actually worth it.

Absolutely, It always is those of course, Like of course, I think it's.

Like signing up to a like a gym challenge or whatever.

It's like you pay for that couldn't be me, no, but you pay for that fee and it's like there's expectations and they're going to give you the outcomes of how you are you running faster?

Are you lifting more.

It's like that's the same in the accounting softwares and making those spreadsheets and saving those favorites.

It's like you're you're holding yourself accountable to constantly check in if you're paying.

You recently switched your email platform and i'd been banging on at least.

I was like, switch, you need to tell me you're with Clavy.

I'm like, you need like there are all these amazing like that's so funny because I need to switch to claviyer.

Switch integrat intro.

It's so expensive, old mate.

She's like, oh my god, the open rate is like double.

I was like, yes, so it is worth it.

It is worth it.

I was using the one that integrated.

We'll run a Shopify website as well.

I was just using it through there out of shit convenience, and it was very costly.

Yeah.

I won't say who we're with right now because they're not awful, but like there's a lot to be desired or being left to be desired, and I was like looking at all the price points and I'm like, so.

Very good.

Since I've been using Clavy for probably two years, and this year has been like the one year that I've really focused on my ad ms.

I've been really trying to be regimented and sending them out like every three weeks, and like, obviously there's not like that much extra to say about cakes, but there's always something going on that you can talk.

About when there is a will, there is a way.

Precisely, And it's like one of those classic things, like you send it out and then you see the thing, you're like, oh, yeah, obviously you're reminding people in another way.

And obviously those subscribers, like the people that have subscribed.

They're that tapped in ones.

Your Instagram followers of course, like you've got some very tapped in people, but the conversion is harder there than it is with your subscribers.

So yeah, but it's just one of those classic Yeah.

I have issues with sending emails either because I feel bad when people if people have seen something on Instagram, I'm like, oh, this product or service we're doing is sold out the people who are subscribed to my emails, and they say, oh my god, I didn't even know.

I'm betraying them if they don't get an email, because they do they want to know.

I feel like over the last few years, I've learned a lot about like these EDM flows and what that looks like and complete side note that I wasn't even going to talk about on the show, but I've done a few podcasts on edms and making sure that, like, as a business owner, you actually own that, because you don't own Instagram followers like Instagram can delete that, but hypothetically if that happened, you could email every one at Miss Trixy Bakes and be like, hey, I'm still here, this is my new account, and like make sure that you're in contact with them.

But then they also feel like they have a more intimate relationship with you, like if I'm opening your emails, actually care.

And you know what I love when a brand is like we're releasing a sale, bit here's the link.

Early I'm like, hey, thank you so much, or like you're doing a workshop or something.

I want to be the first in the No.

I might not always buy, but I always want to feel like I'm at that next level with that business or with that brand.

And yeah, there's ways that people use and abuse that, but like it's like my DM that goes out every single Friday, Like I write it and we send out a newsletter and it's like my unhinged requests, like I do recommendations.

I've done everything from cake to frozen prawns, like like this is what's on my hit list this week.

Guys like you can tell the brands that and the people who do that, who are actually invested and see that email and you know that you're not setting it because you feel like you're being a nuisance.

You're like, I am so enthusiastic.

Let me just so if you don't want to.

Hear unsubscribed because some people reply to my emails and I'm like, hey, bab.

Hello, is you on the same vein?

Both of you have incredible social media presences, like they are so fun, and you seem to be both really good at generating PR for your businesses and for kobakes.

Do you have any tips and tricks like what can I learn and what can my community learn?

Especially from you Alice, who used to work in the space about like building a social presence and gaining PR for that space because PR savage, like that's hard.

How is hard?

And it can be really disheartening as well because often you know, PR is the game where you're wanting journalists to write about you organically and that's a hard game.

But I think persistence is the biggest thing.

If you're going down the line of traditional media.

You need to pitch, You need to bug journalists like there's no tomorrow because they are always on the hunt for story.

There will be snow like snow news days.

Newsday Watch in Australia though that's more of an American thing.

Yeah, but you just like you just never know.

And I think I've always I think for me like I've always approached miss Trixie as like social media is incredibly important.

But again to your point, if that went tomorrow, then it's like what else do I have?

So for me, I I was you know, when I was starting at full time, I was like, I want to be spoken about in the key Melbourne media.

It gives you some notoriety and I wanted that to work alongside my social media presence.

I'm a bit of a traditionalist in that sense.

And of course, like there are always moments that you can have quote unquote viral moments on TikTok, TikTok or what you know.

She's really she's up with your cool kids.

Down with the cook kids.

TikTok so your dad calls it the clock app just perfect.

So you know, you can have all these moments.

But I think if it's like a well rounded strategy where you've got traditional PR, you've got social media, you've got brand, all of those components can can give you a really really strong social media presence.

But it exists outside of that as well.

That's what will lead to the conversion of sale because you're going to look like a trusted business.

But for anyone who is actually looking to engage with like traditional PR and contacting the media, it is a long game.

It's a hard one.

It's a game of rejection.

You will get told so many times, oh no not today, or like we'll just put it on as we get a response, Yeah, you give it a crack and you strike up Those relationship with journalistic can be incredibly incredibly beneficial.

And when we started Kobak, we yeah, I feel like, you know, Lesha had a really good idea around what we would do on socials and I was like, I know what we're doing for media, Like we had a very I mean it was a very remember it was very stressful because one another media outlet got a whold of the.

Story we sold in an exclude.

If it was a whole thing, that would.

Have given me such which is so funny, like we were just opening a venue, but they were treating it like we were giving like royal gossip, like you who are you speaking to?

And we want to be the first to break the trailer.

I was like, guys, this is just a bakery.

Just a bakery.

Community literally wanted We've been harassedment jealous and we had to call the other mediam but like someone's gotten the scoop.

We need you to run this now like it.

Literally it was hilarious.

I think for you saying about manifesting this energy for every business you're.

In a hot demand and the journalists want you.

I feel the way that you're speaking about traditional pr and playing this long game and having patience is also really applicable to social media, which is something we constantly talk about.

We are never trying to be the biggest, loudest, most viral person at every turn, because I just don't think that that has longevity.

So when I'm making decisions for social media, it's about being authentic and making decisions that represent me, and I'll be happy to look back at them in three four years time instead of just chasing trends and doing what the other person's doing.

It's like I would definitely discourage people from trying to be the coolest, hottest, new bombshell that enters the villa.

Right, It's about staying power, yeah, because we know how that goes for their Instagram follow.

It exactly and you know igree again, like you need to be doing what is as you mentioned, authentic to you and your followers will pick up on the fact that is authentic and they'll also remember you.

Because I feel like if I see, you know, some flash in the pay moments, I can't then tell you what the business name was.

I can just remember the content, but I actually can't talk to who created it.

It's so annoying sometimes too, because you like tell someone about it and then you're like, oh, find that video of for you.

You cannot find the video for fe you.

Of course not.

No, it's just doing what other people is doing.

Yeah, Okay, you might get the views and the clicks and the followers, but you're not making a lasting, authentic impression on people.

And for us, like we need to make a sale at the end of exactly, It's like if it's not actually leading.

To a sale of a cake.

No, a TikTok dance doesn't typically do that.

It'll get you used, but it's not going to necessarily try.

It's very disappointing.

All I want to do is actually dance on TikTok if it's like the last thing I want to do.

So this strategy works really well for me, and I will lean very hard into no, don't dance on TikTok's.

I was having a conversation with a girlfriend the other day and she works in marketing and you know, we sometimes do giveaways three she's on the money, and for me, something like that is always about just giving back to our pre existing community.

It's not like please tag your friend and they have to be following and they have to do this and they have to do that because you create a bubble of people that were only there to get the free hair straightener or the free skin care products, but you're there to sell cake and they might not even be aligned to that.

So I think you have to be really strategic as well about the content that you're putting out, because do you want people following you because like you're low key, really funny and making TikTok dances which could never be me, or do you want them following because they're like, oh my god, I've got to save her for later, I need to order a Leo seasoned cake, or I need to do this or that.

You feel like those people, so even if they're not your buyer right now, they might be your buyer eventually.

I've had people who have been with me for twelve years, twelve years, and it's that is those are the relationships that I'm trying to nurture.

It's like keeping people who are actually invested in me, in my cakes, in my business, in my story.

Those are the people that I want to keep on side rather than always seeking out new new faces.

And that's also been really applicable to Kobake as well, because we have had a lot of long conversations with people, but the timing wasn't necessarily right for them to come from Kobake.

So like we've reached out to, you know, so.

Many brands and so many per agencies, but again we needed to create, like Kobak had to become memorable that they would circle back and find a reason to use it in whatever which way.

And that's been really really important, right, like what we've put out on social so people are seeing that the space.

Can be like, you know, used in a plethora of way.

Yes.

Yeah, we haven't gone down that line of you know, making it just look like this like flashy of the moment venue.

It's like, no, this is a space that's going to exist and it's there for you when the time is right.

Yeah.

I actually love that so much and I'm really sad that we're running out of time.

I have another question before we go on this show.

I always talk about money wins and confessions, so I want to know what has been your biggest money win or your biggest like I wish we had known this sooner lesson when it comes to running a business.

I think it's not even necessarily the financial gain that came out of this, but my biggest money win for me, I recently went to France and taught a pace to retreat and the ticket.

I know it's the fanciest thing, but the ticket is so cool.

Oh well, we're going to be doing it every year, which is very exciting.

Can I come or do I have to please come?

I was really really apprehensive about putting that online because the actual price for people to come is the biggest ticket item I've ever ever sold.

Of course, it's a week.

Long pace to retreat in a chateau.

For me, the biggest money in there was the fact that it sold out and people actually came, and I was like, oh my god, I'm so used to selling these cakes that a few hundred dollars.

To have people invest their time thousands of dollars to come on this experience with me was it was a huge, huge money with that is me and just the most amazing experience.

Congrats.

How I know you're going to do it every year every year.

It's actually my dream is to renovate a castle in France, so it's just like that's my stepping stone.

Okay.

I love the kobake, the ghetto chate.

And also another thing that you're doing as well, tell me about books.

Is there hypothetically a book there is?

Yeah, which is very exciting.

So I had the opportunity to publish a book with Penguin this year called Everybody Family.

Thank You so much.

What a lovely an honorable club to be in.

So what's coming out in November?

And it's obviously I mean I think actually the premise of the book comes back to some of our ethos about kobake space.

I didn't just want to write a recipe book with absolutely fabulous cake recipes, but I've intertwined the stories about people's connection to cake within the book because I think.

That is just so what we are about.

It's about the story of cake the way that it creates community and connection.

And yeah, very excited about that.

Excited.

Make sure that all the info about is in the show notes for everyone listening, because I just know that that's going to be so fun.

That's how you're going to use your kitchen aid.

This is happening.

She's going to make and everybody loves cakeress cap and we're going to christen the kitchen aid.

Absolutely.

One time I tried to make sour do in it does that count's absolutely?

That's excell pancake flat.

Meant to do that.

It will bread never let them know exactly.

And Alice, what about you, what's your big money win or I wish I'd known this sooner moment.

It's like a money win, adjacent and adjacent, an adjacent money win.

Thank you?

Still a money win?

Yeah.

I am an ambassador for Nissen and I proactively pitched to them when I was only like six months into Miss Trixie, because I was telling the world that I was delivering cakes around Melbourne, but I didn't actually.

Have a car.

I was like, oh, yeah, I'm delivering cakes.

Sorry, don't car.

Don't let that stop you.

No.

Literally, so I was like, I don't have the money for a car, Like I actually can't afford to buy a car.

I was like, I'm just gonna ask some car company.

Shoot your shot, shoot your shot.

I can only I can say no.

And so I proactively pitched out to car companies.

And now I've been in this ambassador now for like four and a half years.

Stop it.

And it was just like I couldn't believe it.

And I had a lot of people, including one family member, who was like, there's no way that a car company is going to give you a car, okay, And I had that's like that's literally like like the minute someone says to me that you can't do something, I'm like, let.

Me back to the start of this conversation.

How hard could it be?

Literally, So I was like, I'm going to give it a go and look appreciate that I obviously have a background in paw where like pitching comes quite naturally to me.

But I was just like, you can we have the Tool story twenty twenty five.

Yeah, it's storytelling.

So that was like a massive win for me.

And it's been incredibly helpful to have the support of someone like miss and getting me through and getting me around town because I don't think I could do the.

Job otherwise, absolutely not.

And also to have a brand that like back to you.

Yeah, like that's cool.

Yeah, it was very exciting.

So that's been an absolute money win.

Sorry, that isn't money win.

Adjacent money win.

It was a great saving So that was a massive thing.

I think of something that we might have like, wish we had known sooner.

I know something that I did incorrectly from the outset as the naive nineteen year old.

I had didn't segregate any of my business and personal finance.

When I firsted that Conn for mentioning this, I harp on and okay, great, let's like just reinforce that one.

It's hard, like the supermarket run should be a business.

Yeah no, yeah, chips.

I remember for me, I remember my accountant saying to maybe, She's like, and what would you be using salmon for in your business.

I'd be like, ah, sweet salmon, I didn't.

Come here to be attacks.

You're not getting treats next time they come.

Actually, no, I've got a great one.

Okay, Okay.

The way that we we learned by being burnt through Kobake, so we as you can say, energy is like happy and bubbly and positive and we think the best of everybody.

Right, we built this space to like really uplift our community and the brands and businesses that come through.

At least you open to be taken advance does.

Despite what we know, we we did let that get the better of us, and unfortunately we had another female founder actually like totally skipped out on their bill with us because we were too trusting in the sense that we didn't have all of those things signed on the dotted line and the money in the account before an event, and we.

Got absolutely burnt by it.

So just to reinforce even though we can be light and fluffy and think the best of people, those things, those contracts and exist for a reason.

And that is a really awful learning because obviously you've been financially hit by that.

But I don't know the rotten fruit always falls from the tree by itself.

Yes, that stuff.

It's an unfortunate yes, you do you boom, yeah, but it's not sustainable.

No, no, but our systems are.

We just regimented our systems about the way that we accept our bookings again.

So you know, we learnt.

Oh, I think they will respect us for it, like even like the particularly the smaller businesses that come to use Kobak, they are like, oh no, they mean business.

You know.

If we don't hand this space back in.

A way that we found, like our booking agreement is lengthy, it is Oh my goodness, I actually hate that and I hate.

That it was another female founder.

God, what are you doing?

What are you David?

Guys, thank you so much for hanging out with me and talking sweet treats.

It was such a fun chat.

And I just know my community is going to absolutely love this episode and want to follow both of you and audiobooks and audio kids come into your co working space.

I'm so excited about it.

Thank you so much for having us on the show, And.

Anyone who's not already stalking your amazing sweet creations, I obviously will put all of their info into the show.

Notes to make it as easy for you as possible to find them.

And if you loved this episode, please let us know in the comments or share it with someone else who's got big, sweet business dreams.

Don't forget to follow and subscribe so that you never miss an episode.

We've got more inspiring chats coming your way, and I'll see you guys on Friday.

Bye.

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