My name is Tatasha Bamblet.

I'm a proud First Nations woman and I'm here to acknowledge country t glennyan Ganya, Niana, Kaka yah Ya bin Ahaka Nian our gay In Nimbini, yakarum jar Dominyama, Domagahawakawaman, damon imlan Bumba bang Gadabomba in and now in wakah ghana on yak rum jar Watnadaa.

Hello, beautiful friends, we gather on the lands of the Aboriginal people.

We thank acknowledge and respect the Aberiginal people's land that we're gathering on today.

Take pleasure in all the land and respect all that you see.

She's on the Money podcast acknowledges culture, country, community and connections, bringing you the tools, knowledge and resources for you to thrive.

She's on the Money.

She's on the Money.

Hello and welcome, and she's on the Money.

The podcast that proves being financially savvy doesn't mean you've always been financially flawless.

I'm beck sired and with me is the woman who might actually kill me when she realizes what we're doing today, Victoria, are we doing today?

We're going for a run.

I'm just kidding.

How would you feel like?

I was like, let's just get up and run.

Do you know I used to run and it's not for me.

No, I understand.

It's like you're gotta keep yourself entertained for a long time.

Wasn't even that.

It just ruined my body.

It was so like my knees always hurt.

I ended up with like stress fractures in my shins.

I was just not made.

My body's not made for Annie.

He's not a runner.

I wish I could say, Beck, I have a pilates body, but like I have a body that's meant to do pilates, and I don't I look like I have a pilates body.

I wish it was the ladder.

You know.

Well, I think you're plenty pilates, thank you, But no, we are doing something a little bit different.

That's almost as bad as running.

You are back in the hot seat by very popular demand.

Hey, well, everyone loves it.

You love it.

I love it because you're all sadistic.

That's why.

So last time we got the juicy details of your money's story, you did, yes, But today we're digging into the actual strategy, the good stuff.

Not that do I have strategy?

I think your mind strategy is fly by the siege of my pants.

Hey that might work.

Actually, so far, so good.

Yeah, that's fantastic.

So we all need to know how did Victoria Devine get herself out of debt?

Oh that's a good question.

Actually that's a very and you know what, it's really hard, like it was really hard.

Yeah, Well, I mean just answering that question straight out or have you got a list of questions?

Unfortunately, do have a longest questions.

I can see some hope in your eye, like that's the only question.

Are you ready as ready as I'll ever be?

Great?

Okay, we talked about this in Great Tetail last time, but just in case anyone needs a refresh to kick things off, can you paint a quick picture of what life looked like when you realize your debt had to be dealt with and what were your very first steps?

Yeah, so let me go back a little bit further and tell you how I got into debt really quickly, quickly, And then also I guess why I got into debt because I think that people are always like, well why like and people who haven't been in debt are often very much like, well, why did you do that?

That's so silly, And at the time you just don't know what you don't know.

No, So I was working in consulting.

I had finished two degrees, so I'd done my undergrad in psychological science and then I had just finished my postgrad in organizational psychology, and I had what I thought was my big dog, like my big dog consulting job.

And I remember my contract.

I think it was like for fifty five thousand dollars plus super and at the time that was the most amount of money that I'd ever earned.

Like prior to that, I was just working part time and I was like, I would say I was pretty good, Like my work ethic has always been.

I would say fantastic, Like I'm the type of person that's like not like if I've got some spare time, I would just do it.

So I was working like retail jobs, I was working hospitality jobs.

There was a time where I was like a swim teacher.

In between that I was like doing some tutoring of some other people at UNI, Like there was just like lots of bits and bobs floating around.

But even though I had all of those jobs, I think people who go to UNI can probably resonate with that.

You feel like you work like a dog day and day out, like you go to UNI and then like straight after UNI, I would like go to my like hospitality job that night and work until midnight or one am, and then you look at your tax return and I'd be like, oh, I've worked my butt off, and then like, I remember one year.

I think it was like the year before I got this big dog job, my like taxable income was like thirty two thousand dollars, yes, yes, And like in my head, I was like, but all I did was work, I like, and I mean that's minimum wage for you, right, Like that's exactly how it works.

Anyway.

So I get this big dog job and I start to feel like I really want to fit in, and like this is just upon reflection at the time, you're not thinking, oh I really want to fit in, Like that's just not it.

And I remember I got this Virgin Money credit card, and to me, that's kind of I don't know why I'm telling you it's Virgin money.

I think I'm telling you it's a Virgin Money credit card because it didn't feel as real as like a NAB or a combank or a Westpac credit card because.

It wasn't a real bank, do you know what I mean, but also kind of like gives some validity to it.

It's like if you had a bloody I don't know, what's that one that's like a latitude.

Yeah, like a latitude.

It was like, yeah, virgin money.

It was a proper credit card.

Yeah, And I remember the interest rate on it was probably like twenty two percent because I was just like, well, I'll never pay that obviously, like yeah, so that doesn't matter, and it had I think, just this is just me reflecting.

I could be completely wrong, but I think I had like a forty five day interest free period.

In how most credit cards have a month.

This was like a little bit longer.

And I'm like, well, that's helpful.

And I remember the first credit card I got was like five hundred dollars, and that felt like a lot of money at the time, because like, I don't think I often had five hundred dollars in my savings account, like you know, it comes, it goes.

I would pay rent and then it had drop back down.

So I got this five hundred dollar credit card, and very quickly they sent me an email or like a letter.

After that, I can't remember how, but I remember it going up to one thousand, and I remember thinking four figures like that, like it starts slow and it starts small, right, and I'd maxed that out just buying things to fit in.

I suppose like I'd bought a new suit from Saba and I had bought like a couple of pieces from Scanlan Theodore and then bam, like the credit card was maxed out.

Like we're not talking, oh V, like you were using it for costs like the living costs or anything like that.

It was literally like clothes that I otherwise couldn't afford.

In in my head, I was like, if I put it on the credit card, I can just pay it off and then I get nicer pieces, like in my head, I was their investment pieces for work, like this will be good.

And yet things started to like snowball from there.

The debt didn't feel too bad.

I was paying the minimum repayments.

It was probably like fifty two dollars.

I feel like in my head it was like fifty two dollars a month, and I was like, that's fine.

I hadn't done the maths on what that actually meant for me over the long term.

Spoiler.

I was basically never going to pay that credit card off.

That's all I was paying, right of course, And so it starts snowballing.

And then I'm in this big dog job.

And I say big dog job because at the time I felt very cool.

And I think March the next year rolls around and I must have been before that.

Actually I find out that I got into a Master's of Business Administration.

So I get into my MBA like this is so cool, Like this is the coolest thing ever.

And like I start doing that and I'm studying and I'm working at the same time, and it's so hard.

And at this time I didn't have any other debt.

I'm just like paying off this credit card and I reckon.

It would have been about mid year, like I got offered to travel to a place called Glennorb in the south of France to study.

I was able to go and do two units.

Ye kind of not in exchange, but like a I don't know, you go overseason, you study for a little bit.

And it was over that Christmas period, like it was like a Christmas like semester where it was going to be two full time units.

I was over there for about three months, and I knew that I could take that period of time off work, like I would negotiate whatever I couldn't afford to do that beck like my university did, I think subsidize the education component, Like I could put the actual course fees on my hex because it was like an exchange thing with r MIT and the university over there.

And that was fine.

But I still had flights, I still had accommodation.

And then I remember my car blew up and I used to drive this old Toyota Avalon and whenever I turned right, because it had been converted to LPG for some reason, something in the car would cut the LPG and the car would literally stop if you turned right to her.

Oh I see, yeah, it was really cool.

And so you'd be like getting onto the freeway or something and your car would cut out, and I remember just being like this is so unsafe, and like I'd taken it to a heap of people and they're like, oh, you'll have to replace the whole LPG thing, and I'm like, no, absolutely not, like that's so expensive.

So I kept putting up with this car and my Dad I remember, was like Victoria, like you need to get something safer, like we have to get something safer, and so I was like, oh okay, like I can't really, Like I had no savings, I had no income that would support a new car and an overseas trip, and I thought, why don't I just get a loan, like I can just get a personal loan, Like I was already looking like I think that the car thing was there thing that started my thought patent on the loan situation, because I was like, I'll get a car loan and I'll get a better car.

And I bought a secondhand car.

I bought a little two door Mercedes.

She was very cute.

Beck I haven't been able to get rid of her yet, I still have her.

Oh cute.

I mean, I do have another car because I have to be an adult and drive my child around in a car that is relatively safe.

But my little two doors still lives down at my parents' house, and I just I probably need to sell it, but like I just have an emotional connection to her.

Anyway, I decide that I'm going to get a car loan, and then what's wrong with just putting a little bit more onto that car loan, making it a personal loan so that I can go do this thing in France.

Yeah, yeah, And I remember the car was I think fourteen thousand dollars and then to study and you know, organize flights accommodation three months in Europe, and obviously I wanted to have a good time too, Like I ended up going to the snow over there, like dude, I was like skiing in living shops, like I spent some time in Paris, I spent some time with friends in London, like very cool.

All of that meant that I got a forty thousand dollar personal line.

Sure.

Sure, And at the time that didn't feel scary.

That actually felt like I remember signing the contract and being like this is so freeing.

I'm getting exactly what I want.

Yeah, And like in my head, forty thousand dollars that wasn't my annual income, so it's not that bad, right, right.

And I guess like you're kind of thinking, oh, I'll never like I will get there eventually, but if you're giving it to me all right now, and then I can just like kind of.

I can pay it off, pay it off.

How hard would that be?

Yeah?

I totally understand how that would have that's not and that hard.

No, And like I remember then and like, this is actually really funny because I have since I since joined a class action and I actually got all of the money that I paid on that loan, that loan's insurance back, really because ages going NAB.

Like I remember my loan with NAB and I went down to the bank and it was so easy, Like we're talking twenty eleven, twenty twelve.

Maybe I got this loan and I just remember walking in and then being like, oh, have you got payslops And I was like yeah, and like I had them on my phone and I emailed them to them and then they're like, oh, sign all of these things.

Yeah, we'll call you tomorrow.

And then the next day I had a personal loan.

That's crazy.

It's so easy.

And I was like, oh, maybe, like I remember thinking of the time, maybe I should have gotten more.

I know, I know, like maybe I should have gotten more because like that freedom felt good and like that's not freedom, that's delusion.

Just to be very clear, anyway, got this loan and lived my best life, went overseas.

When you get a personal loan, it's not like a line of credit.

They actually put all of that cash into my bank account.

So I paid for that car and then I had, well, I would say, a very healthy fund to go overseas with.

Yeah, And I made a lot of financial decisions while I was overseas that were definitely aligned to not my income, because I'd be like, well, I've got heaps of money in my account, why don't we go to Heston Blumenthal's like restaurant, Why don't we go to these expensive places?

Or why don't I buy And I remember, you guys have probably seen it online because like I do wear a lot of clothes that I have had for years and years and years, and there's these beautiful I think it's beautiful Ted Baker dress that I have right, and it's just like it's red, and it's a meaty dress and it's quite high cart and it's got this beautiful orchid pattern on it.

I love it.

I bought that in London for an exorbitant amount of money at the time, but I was like, have heaps of cash in my account, so like does it matter?

Yeah, it didn't matter, No, And even just the whole experience and stuff like that, it's like, you know, I don't encourage anyone to get into dead.

No, this is terrible.

I'm just I feel like I need to talk about how I got there, because so many people would be like, oh, how did you get out of it?

And getting out of debt is very hard, but I think also coming to terms with the idea that I remember all of that.

Right, I come home and I had a little bit of savings, so even when I got home, the pain wasn't like the pain of being in debt wasn't there because I could still make the monthly repayments really easily, and they were eight hundred and fifty three I think dollars per month, and that was easy because like there was still that cash in my account from the actual loan.

So I was like, not, there was no pain right totally.

That dried up really quickly.

Yeah, and then all of a sudden, you're back home.

All you've got in your pocket or experiences, and I had a really nice dress.

I had started to live paycheck to paycheck again.

And when you're on a fifty five thousand dollars salary, eight hundred and fifty three dollars a month means you don't have any extra money.

That's like, like I remember my rent was about the same, and like I had good rent because I took the smallest bedroom in this sharehouse.

I lived with my best friend and her brother, and I had the tiniest little bedroom back and I had eight hundred and fifty three dollars I think of debt repayment, and my rent was like eight fifty yep, And that's wild between that food, like there was not much to spare, no, Like there was just nothing, and like by the time you pay for petrol and your train tickets every day and you know, the odd coffee at work, Like I just didn't have any extra and I just remember how suffocating that felt.

Yeah, Like I started to go, oh my goodness, like what am I going to do about this debt thing?

But I bury my head in the sand.

Yeah, I didn't tell anybody i'd taken that loan out because like I kind of like, at the same time as not caring about it, I also knew that there was some level of shame involved in it.

Yeah, like anyone around upon you don't really know why.

Yeah, Like I didn't want to tell people I had it, and at that point my financial literacy was not very good.

Like, keep in mind, I wasn't working in finance.

She's on the money didn't exist at this point, and yeah, like I just buried my head in the sand for a very long time about it paid the minimum repayments.

So I remember looking into getting it refinanced, so because I was like, if I, you know, lower the monthly repayments, maybe life will be a bit more comfortable.

But I actually couldn't get it refinanced because like, no one would refinance a personal debt.

Why would you refinance a personal debt.

Ye, it's not like I had.

Oh and I still had that credit card that was outstanding.

Yeah.

At that point, I remember going, oh, wait, hold on, And I think because I'd had a taste of, quote the good life.

Yeah, I'd had cash to dispose of, like i'd you know, done this stuff in London.

I'd been to Paris and I had all of this cash, and you know, when I got home, it wasn't that bad.

I was going out for brunches with my friends.

I was shouting them like it was fine.

But all of that was on the debt, Like that was the personal loan money.

Yeah, and then all of a sudden, it just got really tight.

Yeah, and then that feels suffocating, That feels really hard, and I just I I didn't tell anyone.

My parents didn't know my like literally my family and friends didn't know, and they'd be like, oh we should.

I remember like at the time, it was like the cool thing to do, and probably still is a cool thing to do, right.

Bali trips for New Years.

Yeah, Like my girlfriends were like, let's go to Bali for New Years.

I don't remember thinking like I would love to, but I can't afford that, Like I don't have any cash, Like I couldn't afford and at the time, like return flights to Bali were like eight hundred bucks.

Oh my god.

I remember thinking like, that's my debt repayment.

Yes I do, like I quote have the money, but it has to be allocated to something else, like because that was direct debited out of my account.

So it didn't feel like I even had a choice, you know.

So I just felt like I wasn't going to get anywhere.

And then I started to go, well, maybe this is my life.

And I kept looking around at the people at work and being like wow, were they doing it?

Like are they just earning more.

Do I need a pay rise?

Like's what's going on?

I know.

And I mean I still had that idea that I wanted to go out for brunch and I wanted to steal.

And it's not the coffee.

The coffee's not going to ever get you out of debt.

But like I wanted to have that lifestyle of where I was still out and about but like them to live life.

Yeah, because the reality of getting out of debt is hard.

You do have to restrict, you do have to pull back.

I just wasn't ready to do that.

No, Okay, so I'm picturing little you.

You're paying so much money every month.

What were like the first things you did to get yourself.

Out of it?

Continue to bury my head in the sand if I set and I did that literally for years.

Like we're not saying, oh, I buried my head in the sand for a few months and then I just got my stuff together and got out of debt.

I feel like that's a sunshine and rose, this story and that comes out of our community all the time.

And I think that I wish I had the resource that was she's on the money at the time to go hey, like doesn't mean you're a bad person because I felt like a bad person.

Yeah, I probably did that for three years back, couldn't sleep properly, was really stressed about it.

Like, you know, I would be able to scrape together a few things to do, like trips here and there, like, but not anything stupidly extravagant.

It wasn't until I started to realize that everybody around me was able to live their lives and I wasn't.

I got to pay rise.

I remember I went for and get this fifty five thousand to sixty thousand dollars and like that feels big, Like yeah, and I'm not being condescending when I say that, I promise, Like at the time, I was like, oh my god, like I'm sixty grand plus SuperH Like to me, that was such a big deal.

And I remember going, oh, I'm gonna have so much more cash to pay back this debt, and like that was the point in time where I thought, do you know what, I can probably do something about this, and you shouldn't wait, And I wish I didn't, but I didn't know.

Beck, you shouldn't have to wait until you have more income to be able to pay off a debt or prioritize debt reduction because there are so many strategies you can implement.

But like, I just didn't know what I didn't know.

So I worked out how much per month I was getting additional and I started paying that off my debt and acted like I was still on the same salary.

So that was working really well.

And then you know, my income started to increase, and I started to get excited watching the numbers come down, because when you start to pay a little bit more than the bare minimum, you actually do start to see movement, even if it's like fifty dollars a month, you do actually start to see movement.

And that, to me was really motivating.

I was like, oh, hold on, Like instead of the monthly repayment and then you get like this.

I remember getting the letters in the mail and like it would be this graph of how long it would take me to get out of debt, and a like a never changed.

I was like, oh, hold on, like it's starting to change, Like this is really Excitingly amount of years have like started to come down.

It's like, oh, okay, hold on, Like what if I you know, what if I got a job at a cafe or something, and I'm like theorizing other ideas.

Anyway, at the same time, I was like, I can't do this on my own, and I decided to see financial advice because in my head, I was like, if I go see a financial advisor, like they'll tell me what to do.

What's decision of my life.

I think I've told you before.

This guy was so condescending, so rude, Like he got out this like whiteboard and started talking me through, like, oh, what are your debts?

What's this?

And I told you about my credit card that I still hadn't paid off, and I told him about my personal loan and he was like, oh, yeah, like you're never going to be able to like really invest and like at the same time, and this is silly again, I had savings set to the side, so over this time, I instead of adding absolutely everything to my debt, like I got this pay rise and I added that to my debt, but like on the side, I was like putting fifty dollars here in there into savings.

And I remember thinking, oh, I've got some money and I could like make some investing decisions with this, and he was literally like, girl, you can't afford to invest if you've got this debt.

And I remember being really disheartened by that.

Yeah, so I was like, what do you mean I've got all these savings, What do you mean I can't invest?

Yes, I can.

I want to get rich, I want to get wealthy.

I've started doing my research.

I've started looking at YouTube videos on superannuation, like I get this, and girl, I'm so sorry.

If you have debt and you also have savings, you actually don't have savings.

Yes, you're just putting off your debt.

But like I again didn't know what I didn't know, and like, I guess that's what kick started me onto this pathway of understanding finance and then working out how cool that was.

And you know, I started watching YouTube videos and that was basically the only financial literacy at that time that was available.

They weren't finance podcasts to listen to.

There weren't Instagram accounts of people like you know, getting out of debt that you could follow just stay motivated.

Like that just wasn't a thing.

And so yeah, I decided to do that.

Anyway, I won't bore you with the whole story because I feel like I've spoken about it before, but one thing led to another, and I decided I did have a passion for financial literacy.

Yes, I was benefiting from it because I was getting out of debt myself.

But I was like, oh, this is so powerful, Like if my friends knew about this, or if my friends knew about contributing extra to super or I remember thinking about my best friend who I lived with.

I'm like, she's not that I was aware of.

She's not in any debt.

Like, imagine how much she could save, well, she could invest because she doesn't have to do what I do, but she doesn't have to pay off her debt.

Like that's crazy, Like imagine you were putting eight hundred a month away for Oh, my goods.

I don't even want to talk about what I could have died and myself at that point.

So yeah, that's I guess what kicks started it.

And it was like, honestly, it was me getting a pay rise and realizing that, oh, actually contributing more to your debt does start to have an impact, even though it was like I think, like fifty bucks a week or something.

Okay, So what advice would.

You give to someone trying to choose the right repayment strategy for the situation.

What motivates you For me, I just liked seeing it come down.

And I mean when you're picking like the snowball or the avalanche method, often they're really aligned to having multiple small debts and you pick.

You know, with the snowball method, you pick the smallest debt and try and pay that off as quickly as possible so that then you have less total debts.

And with the avalanche method, you're picking the debt that has the highest interest and paying that off aggressively and then moving down from there.

And there are financial benefits for both, and there are also like motivational benefits for both, right, because like, if you're feeling good about paying off your debt, I actually don't care if it costs you a bit more interest in long term, as long as you're prioritizing it, because like, look at what I did for more than three years back, I did not pay more than the minimum repayment.

In fact, I wasn't even looking at the total debt.

I can't remember ever looking at any statements or logging into the online account.

I didn't want to know what the total was.

And if during that period of time you said how much debt were you in?

In my head, all I had was that forty thousand dollars, Like, I didn't know how much had been paid off.

I didn't know what that eight hundred and fifty three dollars a month was doing, because like I was just kind of scared to look, but also embarrassed to look, and like, you know what, it's like you just don't want to, like you don't want to look.

I know.

So I think for me, the best advice I have is not picking a strategy, but picking yourself up and going, do you know what, debt doesn't make me a bad person.

I don't think anybody would look at me now and go o V when you're in debt, you're a terrible person, or beck when you were in debt, awful person.

I was still me.

I was judging myself harder.

I was being so harsh on myself.

I was not kind in the way that I spoke to myself, like sorry, I deserved so much more than that.

Yeah, and do you know what, by looking at my debt, I would have been able to go, oh, I could get out of this.

I could have gotten out of it so much easier.

Like I literally didn't get out of that debt until after I met my husband.

Yeah, and I remember that was so embarrassing to me, Like you know when people are like, oh, do you ask about finances on the first aid?

Absolutely not.

If he had asked, honest to god, I would have lied to him.

Yeah, he'd been like, oh, do you have any personal debt?

I'd be like, no, you're an idiot, But that's a sexy question.

But neither of us asked because it turns out we were both in personal debt where we met each other.

That's so comforting for some reason, you know, do you know what I remember Like we were together for a while and it didn't ever come up.

And then we moved in together and we had separate finances and that was fine, and we'd both like you know, agreed on what rent we could pay.

And at that time, I'd started earning a bit more money, so like there was a little bit more to like wiggle around with.

And we got this little apartment together and it was all sunshine and roses.

And then I think I was him that brought up, oh yeah, and I have this debt repayment.

I remember being like, sorry, what, like right me?

Judging him calling the kettle black.

I remember being like, wait, you've got personal debt and then asking about it and like he had like probably I don't know, like a ten thousand dollar personal loan or something for something along the way, and like, I don't I don't think anybody ever goes into debt, being like, do you know what I really want debt?

Yeah, Like it's always out of necessity or need.

And I remember being like, oh, good, he's also got this debt and that made me feel comfortable to tell him that I had it.

And then we spoke about, well, if we ever want to buy property together, or have kids together, or do this stuff together, we're going to have to get rid of that.

And so we both kind of knuckled down on our own debts and like we were paying all of that out because I think at that stage we realized we do really love each other.

We've just moved in together, this is all sunshine and roses, and we would love to start saving for a house, but we can't start saving for a house until we get rid of these debts.

So we were doing that, but delusional me, I still kind of had that little savings account to the side.

With a little bit of cash in it, and again, don't do that.

You can have an emergency fund, that's fine.

But I remember being like, oh, that's so that's for the future.

I should have just put it on my debt.

But sure.

Anyway, hindsight is twenty twenty, and yeah, it wasn't until then that I really really wanted to knuckle down, because if I'm being honest, I didn't have the motivation to pay it off because I didn't have any carrot that was worth paying it off for until I realized, oh, I actually want to build a life with someone, and debt's not going to get me there.

Debt's not going to help me.

We can't get a home loan, We can't, you know, say for our deposit.

We can't do any of these things until I get my shit together.

Yeah, for sure, I.

Think that is so relatable.

Sometimes you just thrown up the motivation until there's something that you really want.

You can see when it was just about me, but then it's about somebody else.

I don't know, I get it.

I'm not saying that you should wait for that.

In fact, I wish that I had entered that relationship, you know, completely debt free and super financially empowered and all of like I wish all of that for baby me, but you know it didn't work out so badly totally and you see to find your carrot.

Let's go to a really quick break and when we get back, I want to get into what be actually cut from a budget, whether she hustled for extra cash, and the mindset shift that changed everything.

Alrighty guys, we are back, and I want to get straight into the juicy stuff, so via, I want to know what your budget looked like, what did you slash and what were your non negotiables that you kept A long story short, I think after I got that credit card and was splashing on like this Scanlan, theat All pieces and that suit from Saba, I kind of got scared of it.

And I wasn't really spending big, but because I didn't have a massive salary, most of my income was going to debt reduction.

So like quote, slashing things from my budget wasn't really helping.

I wish I could be like, oh, yep, I slashed this and this.

I remember sitting down with Steve, my now husband, and we were like okay, cool, Like where can we save some money so that we can both pay off our debts a bit better.

And at the time, I think in that first, you know, two years of our relationship, we were eating out a lot, Like you know, when we were cooking dinner together, we weren't necessarily cooking budget meals.

He was always like calling me before he got home from work and we'd be like, oh, what we want for dinner?

And I'd be like, oh, I don't know, like salmon or something from the supermarket, and like salmon on this is so niche, but like that would be one of our go to meals.

Yeah, before we started planning to get out of debt.

Salmon's like at least ten dollars fourteen dollars at the moment per packet for two pieces of fish, and then he'd get sides, and we'd always get broccolini, and that all of a sudden becomes a thirty plus dollar dinner yea, even though you're just quote swinging past the supermarket.

So it was things like that where we were like, oh, we probably should be more planned with our meals.

We probably should be better at you know, meal planning and meal prepping and whatnot.

So I think once we both got the clarity that hold on, we both actually have personal debts.

We probably should be prioritizing this.

It was much easier to cut out brunches on the weekends.

We'd eat at home and go for a walk and grab a coffee and like, it sounds so silly because I tell you guys to do that, but that's because that's what worked for me.

Would and we still, even though we are very financially secure now to this day, do this.

We're always like, oh, do you want to have a piece of toast, and then we'll go for a coffee walk with our son Harvey.

Like we always say that we'll go for a coffee walk because historically, when we were getting out of debt, the coffee walk was like our treat and our in between of not going to brunch anymore.

Yeah, so we would sometimes jump in the car, drive to the Tan, grab a coffee, and then do the walk around the Tan, and that was like our mid morning activity on the weekend.

Or like now we live in our like the area that we live in, we just like, you know, go for a walk around that area.

But yeah, like the whole idea of a coffee walk for us really originated from not going out for brunch, not going out for lunch, trying to save on the weekends, but also being people that love dining out, being people who love a cafe coffee, being people who still want to feel like we're not restricting ourselves.

So that really worked for us.

Would it work for you?

Who knows?

But I think thinking about what are you gonna place that with was really helpful for us.

So swap don't stop?

They say, yeah, and I think, not going, Oh well, we can't go out anymore.

What are we going to do?

Sit on the couch and twitterle our thumbs.

Like, I'm not saying don't spend money, but can you swap it for a cheaper activity?

Can you work out what you could do?

Like, you know, I'm not saying that the cheap Tuesday movie night tickets are gonna save you heaps of money, but if going out is a really big priority to you and having a date night once a month is really important, how can you make that as cost effective as possible?

And we started thinking like that.

And when you start to think that way, it kind of becomes like a game, It kind of becomes fun.

I totally get it.

Yeah, like the steak night at the Spread Eagle Hotel became.

It was back when we were getting out of debt.

It was much cheaper.

I think it was like eighteen dollars and it was like steak a drink, so you could have like a beer or a wine or a soft drink or whatever.

It was steak insides and like it was a really nice night out.

And I remember it was like a date night that we could go on maybe once a month, we'd go out for a fancy dinner and it was less than fifty dollars for the both yes, right, yeah, And so I wouldn't say gammify it, but it was kind of like a game where you were like, okay, well, how could we go out have a really good night and we kind of still felt like we were winning.

Yeah, I think that's really cute.

And I guess if you are already you can't cut anything from the budgets.

It's like, well do I just stop eating?

Like I literally am on End's meat here.

I've just there's so many fun things you could do with your own Like you have a deb mash and a bloody sausage and you just write it down on an a for paper and pretend it's a menu and.

You can just like make some fun out of it, you know, dude.

And like, I think a lot of that still because we were doing that together, that stuff still sticks with us, like it's become part of what we just default to now.

And I like, I find that some people in our community have said, oh, you're not relatable anymore, Victoria, And it's because I'm not in the financial situation that people can relate to.

But like, I'm still the same person.

I still love cheap steak die, I still love going for my coffee walks.

I still find brunches that cost more than forty dollars absolutely exorbitant.

Just because I have more money does not mean that I'm a different person.

It doesn't mean I've lost my way or lost my ability to understand the cost of living crisis.

Like I see it, I feel it.

It's why I'm so wildly passionate about continuing to create the content that we create, because nobody deserves to be in the position that I was in and feeling as guilty and bad about themselves as I did.

Like, it's why She's on the money, was born and continues to be there.

So I just I look at it and I go, oh, I don't think you guys realize that.

Yes, I drive a really fancy car now, but do you know how much I appreciate that because of where I've come from.

I think that when you have been in debt, when you have lived below your means, and once you get out of that, and once you learn you can actually keep yourself out of that, you don't want to go back.

Yeah, Like, once you taste financial freedom and once you realize what that gives you, and once you realize that financial freedom doesn't mean being rich, it means having choices and being able to make a decision, you go, wow, this is really cool.

This is what I want for me, And I'm willing to sacrifice a lot, because Becky, if I lost absolutely everything tomorrow, you best believe I'd be back in a cafe working behind the bar.

I would absolutely hustle my way back up to make sure that I had my emergency fund, to make sure that I had the ability to put food on the table and be able to make choices totally.

Now, this leads me to my next question, because I know that we're having talking about like cutting things from the budget, But did you boost your income while paying off your debt like a side hustle, extra work things like that.

I wish I had the capacity to do, so.

I thought about it a lot of times.

I remember going to a job interview for a cafe because I was like, Oh, what if I like just worked on a Saturday or a Sunday.

And I remember, like Sunday rates were really attractive.

I was like, Oh, what if I did that?

But honestly, during that period of my life, I was working full time.

I was trying to start She's on the money and I didn't at the time think that she's on the money was like a side hustle.

To me.

It felt like more of a I want to say, community service.

But I was not doing it because I thought i'd make money.

I didn't think I would make money.

Sure, I didn't think it would become a podcast.

I was doing that, but I was also studying full time, I was doing my MBA, so like that was a lot to take on and I just simply didn't have the capacity.

That's so fair.

I wish i'd known more about like air Tasker.

I wish I'd known more about all of these kind of like husty apps where I didn't have to commit to every single Saturday, like I wish that i'd had.

I don't know, like maybe I was a casual at a cafe and they text me occasionally said, oh, do you want a Saturday shift this week?

I would have loved that, because, like you know, some weeks you've got the capacity, some weeks you don't.

Or I wish I'd been able to jump on air tasker and like take up tutoring or something, but I didn't know that was an option.

I don't even think it was an option then.

But like I wish I had more flexible side hustle options because I know I would have taken them if I could have.

I just didn't know they existed.

No, I totally get it.

Well, we're almost done by the way I went, almost out of time.

I am so sorry.

No, no, no, I want to Yeah, this was my this is my warning to you, but just so you know, almost off the hook.

I have two more questions for you.

Okay, So this one is, you've seen so many people get out of debt and turn their money stories around.

Is there one habit or change made that you constantly see in those who are successful.

Yeah, consistency, Yes, that's so lame, right, Like I wish it could be like, oh my goodness, it's this one sparkly thing.

But getting out of debt isn't sexy.

Getting into debt can be.

And I think that's why you want getting out of debt to be equally fun, right, because like getting into debt, no word of lie had a great time.

Oh my god, not gonna lie, not gonna lie.

Like sorry, I walked Like, let's just frame this.

I walked into a bank deck.

I gave the minimum paperwork, they gave me forty thousand dollars.

I got to spend it based on free will.

Yeah, and I sure did.

But do you know what I mean?

Like getting into debt is fun, getting out of debt is the hardslog.

That is not what you paid, Like, that's not what you signed up for.

I don't think anyone goes, oh, I didn't realize that.

We just don't think these decisions through properly.

I think if I was talking to somebody about like what one change or habit, I think it's it's a bit of a mindset shift.

So it's realizing that you're not a shitty person because you're in debt.

That is not a reflection of your self worth.

And for so long I genuinely saw my self worth as being deeply tied to the fact that I was in debt.

I felt shameful about that.

I felt like that should be a hidden part of me.

I mean I literally didn't even tell my boyfriend that I had debt until after i'd moved in with him.

Would I ever recommend that to someone in my community.

Absolutely not.

There.

I was absolutely relieved when I found out he was also in debt, at the same time as being like, what the hell, what do you mean you're also in debt?

Like now we both have to get out of this anyway.

So I think when it comes to mindset shift, really understanding that it's not tied to your self worth.

But then also it's about consistency, and we're not saying it has to be the same amount of debt repayment each and every single month.

If you mess up one month or you make a decision one month, that means that there's less great.

All I care about is that next month you go, yeah, I'm prioritizing it again, I'm stepping back up.

I've spoken before on the podcast about this concept of grit.

There is this fantastic book by Angela Duckworth, and we can put the link in the show notes.

For you guys, it's not about debt reduction, but it's about what creates successful people.

And it is not your intelligence.

It's not who you know, it's not even what you know.

It's actually about how many times you get pushed over and you're willing to get back up.

Like the most successful people in the world, whether they are entrepreneurs or they are just average people like you and me, they are the ones that just go that didn't work, or I'll get up and try again.

Oh that didn't work.

That doesn't mean I'm a shitty person.

I'm aa just try again.

Like, and I don't know about you back, but I have so much respect for my friends who do that, who are like, oh, it didn't work, but I'll just give it another crack.

Yeah, absolutely, you know when you're just like I asked a friend the other day she had an interview, and I said, how'd that job interview go?

She goes, I didn't get it, but like, there'll be another one.

I was like, oh my god, Like I remember going to job interviews, and if I didn't get it, i'd see that as a like personal reflection of me not being worthwhile.

I know that's not the truth at all.

And she was just like, yeah, yeah, they must have just been somebody that fit the role better.

Yeah, Like she was able to separate it and just be like, oh, get up and just do something else.

Absolutely, what an icon.

But like that, I would say, is the defining factor of what I see our community doing and what I see our community learning.

They seem to be going, Oh, actually, my self worth isn't tied to debt.

I can keep trying, and I can keep plugging away at this and maybe one month you have an extra two hundred bucks and you throw it at your debt.

But that's not wasted like we see it as consistency.

Yes, So for me, I would say, it's just slow and steady wins the race.

Okay.

I like that.

I like that, and I do want to acknowledge that some people do have aspects of their identity that make it a little.

Bit harder to get by in life.

But just you know, we're all gonna just keep doing what we're doing, and if it takes you a little bit longer, it's a little bit harder.

That's something that we just acknowledge.

And then I never met one person who I would say was an inherently good person who would judge someone based on being in debt.

No, totally judge someone based on them being in debt.

You're kind of a shitty person.

So I actually I just don't have a lot.

It's it's a weird thing to judge someone for and like some of the best people in my entire life, like you, right, thank you, You've been in debt?

Is that but like, does that change the situation?

No?

Does that make you a worse off human being?

No?

I would say you're better than most people that I come across.

It's so sweet, but like you've got a better moral compass.

You know, I see what you're saying.

All the type of person I want to surround myself with as opposed to do you know what I mean.

It's just I know you're saying.

I know you're saying, they're so sweetet you, thank you.

People don't give themselves enough credit for that.

Yeah, it builds a lot of uh, you know, multi layered personalities.

So I know I really like it.

So how do you feel about debt now.

And this is the last question, by the way, how do you feel about debt now?

And what is your approach to credit and loans.

I'm so angry about debt.

I just I still hold so much anger about it.

I think because I remember my journey and I just don't want anybody else to have to go through that, the shame, feeling awful about it, feeling like you're not getting anywhere, feeling like you're missing out on life.

Like I remember just thinking there was a very big period of my life where I was like, well, I'll never be to afford property, Like that's just not a reality for me.

That's fine, And I remember like framing it as though that didn't matter, and you don't have to have property, you don't need to need that.

But I remember trying to justify it to myself because like, in my head, the reason I would never have property was because I was bad with money, right, And it was because I would never be able to save a deposit, and it's because I would always have personal debt.

And in my head, this was just gonna spiral for my entire life.

So I don't like debt.

I also would like to acknowledge that for some people, debt is such necessary evil, Like it is a necessary part of getting through We're in the middle of a cost of living crisis.

Do you think I am so naive to think that the single mum who is earning fifty grand a year and has three kids that she needs to get through school is not going to go into debt to do that because she's got some deadbeat dad on the side.

Like, we are doing the best that we can, and if you are in debt or you're about to go into debt, I think it's just more about understanding that sometimes it can be a tool, sometimes it is a necessary evil, but we're just all doing the best that we can.

So I think my approach to credit and loans is, if you don't have to have them, don't get them.

I never needed it.

You've heard my story.

At no point did I say, beck I needed it to put food on the table.

Beck I needed debt to pay my rent and put a roof over my head.

Beck I needed it for my medical costs.

Those are completely different situations.

Mine was all vanity.

Mine was I'm going overseas and I'm traveling, and I bought a car I did not need any of that.

I should never have gotten into debt.

But if my story was, oh, medical costs, or I was in hospital for a long time and I ended up with a whole heap of debt because I had to pay for my rent otherwise I was going to lose my house, that's a different story and that needs to be treated differently as well.

So, no, I don't like debt, and my approach is to avoid it at all costs.

But I also am very aware that there are a lot of people in our community that use debt and need debt to get by, and I see it as my job to educate you on how to use it as responsibly as possible and how to get out of it when you need to take those steps, Like when you're ready, I'm here.

I've got all the tools and I've got all the resources, and I will be your best friend.

I'll be your biggest cheerleader.

But I'm never going to judge you for getting into debt.

That is so beautiful and so empowering, and I think that's a perfect place to leave this if you feel yeah, because I would love to stop talking about it.

So fair.

Okay, so you're officially off the hook.

Thank you so much for letting Usteep dive into how you became debt free.

I'm always willing to overshare when it comes to hopefully benefiting our community.

Yeah, thank you.

And just to reiterate everything that I've been saying, if you're in debt right now, please know that it literally does not make you a bad person.

It does not mean that you are bad with money, it doesn't mean you've failed, and it definitely does not mean that you can't turn things around.

We hope this chat gave you the tools, the courage, or even just the permission to start tackling your own debt without the shame.

And of course, if you love this episode, please share it with someone who might need it, leave us a review, or slide into the comments and tell us what you want.

To hear more of.

Bye guys, Bye guys.

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