Welcome to vlat Subject Podcast.

Our mission at Vlatimer Subject Ministries is to reach the world globally and disciple them digitally.

Let's dive into this episode.

Welcome everyone to this interview.

I believe, as with interviews that you see on our platform, this one is going to remove the scales out of your eyes as well as equip you with tools that you need, wisdom that God's word as well as things that we learn from certified clinicians that you can be equipped to deal with challenges challenging people in your life.

The video one time I.

Released that had to deal with what to do or how to remove toxic people out of your life, and many of you actually responded back on what to do when you live with those narcissistic toxic people.

You're married to them, you may be you have them living in your house and you can't like actually get rid of them, and how do you live with them?

How do you work with them?

Today?

This is going to be really really helpful, and so today I have Kenza HEADOC.

She is a licensed consulor certified clinical trauma professional as well as she is a published author and she specializes in narcissistic abuse recovery, and she also co owns one of the South Carolina's fastest growing mental health practices.

She recently released a book.

By the time you're watching this, the book will be out already and the book is called Unmasking Narcissism, which blends biblical wisdom with clinical insights to uncover the true origin of narcissistic abuse and answering a lot of hot button questions.

So, Kenza, welcome.

Thank you so much for having me.

And before we talk about Unmasking Narcissism, I want to start with people to get to know a little bit about you and your background.

In fact, the first time that I came across your story had nothing to do with what you do professionally, but actually was about your testimony and how you went or left Islam.

And can you tell us a little bit about your background and your upbringing.

Yes, absolutely so.

I grew up in an Islamic household, and being that it was an Islamic household, I grew up with such a distorted perspective of who God is.

My upbringing, my whole life motto up until the age of twenty three was I needed.

I was here for a certain amount of time and during my life here, I needed to earn salvation.

And the God who I worshiped was very distant, very demanding, and I believed he was the one true God.

And so I believed if I prayed enough, if I gave enough to as long missions, if I did enough works, then I would have essentially gained access to heaven.

And unfortunately, during that time I believed, I mean, I grew up believing that Christians were just a bunch of misled people.

That because I grew up believing that the Bible was distorted and I shouldn't believe in anything like that.

And so growing up, when I was about sixteen years old, my parents had arranged a marriage for me for the purpose of staying in the United States, and that it was it was a fraudulent marriage.

And I was about a sophomore in high school, and so my orders were, You're gonna come with us at the courthouse, get married, and make sure you don't kiss the guy on the lips.

That was very, very like a huge thing that I remember, and that was about it, you know, I said, I do to the guy, and then I went back home and I wasn't to talk about it again.

In high school.

Yes, yes, I was just finishing up my sophomore year when they told me about it.

So it was yeah, I was sixteen and so yeah, and we get married and it was just on paper and so all of that happened.

And Islam is very legalistic, and I mean that, combined with my own sinful nature, I rebelled a lot.

I met a guy when I was a senior, I had graduated high school, and we start dating behind my parents' back.

I get pregnant, and now I'm like, what do I do?

Because I'm so scared they're going to kill me.

I mean because it's a big deal in Islam, and so I couldn't hide it.

I told my mom and it was such a big deal and I ended up it was.

It led to a distressing night for me.

I ended up running away and I miscarried that night.

Now, within a couple of weeks, I ended up pregnant again.

I ran away with the guy.

And so after my pregnancy the second time, my parents started calling and they were like, you know, you're gonna go to hell with all you know, with all of being pregnant out of wedlock, and I just would not listen and then they started threatening to call immigration and let them know that my marriage is fraudulent.

And between that and the guilt trip of being pregnant out of wedlock, I ended up having an abortion.

And and that was my I mean that, that's all me.

And so something broke within me.

Even though Islam teaches that a baby doesn't have a soul until four months, there was something on the inside of me that broke after I had an abortion.

And within a couple of months of having an abortion, I already felt like I had lost God's favor, who I referred to as Allah, had lost you know, I didn't deserve any mercy, any grace, and I felt like just the bottom of the barrel.

And within months of that, I was approached by the US Marshals about the fraudulent marriage.

And so in my in my mind, all of these sequence of things happening, I'm thinking, this is God punishing me because you know, the enemy, now I know the enemy can put those thoughts.

So I'm thinking, you know, God is punishing me because of the abortion I had.

So the marshals asked me about the marriage, and there was no way I was going to give my parents up because as a Muslim.

Your parents are like very high and in in the chain of in the chain of command, and so I wasn't going to give them up, and so I ended up taking fault for everything that happened.

I said it was it was me that did it, and and even though they didn't believe me, somebody had to get take fault for it.

So I got arrested, and I got arrested for obstructing justice, which means obstructing a federal investigation because I wouldn't give information.

And so I served six months in jail, and after serving time, I was let out.

And during that time I remember my parents showing up to jail and saying, you know, Allah's punishing you for everything that you did.

This is you.

You're supposed to be here.

And so for me that I remember staying up at night and praying that Allah would somehow just forgive me and glad I remember just now there was a dream I had while I was in jail, and it was I was in such it was like a dark room, and there was like a brother figure who showed up and he was so peaceful, and he led me up a stair of spiral staircase and he was motioning like, don't say anything, and he opened up door a door, and I saw paradise and I woke up.

And so looking back now, I do believe the Lord was just tugging at my heart.

But back then I didn't understand what was going on.

And so.

A lot of Muslims do get visions of Jesus which and dreams that kind of leads them out of Islam.

And was anybody during this time that you lived in the United States did anybody evangelize to you, tell you about Jesus and about God from your friends, or how did you end up leaving Islam and coming into faith with Jesus.

So, after I was released and I was on federal probation and everything, I was placed on deportation proceedings.

And during that time I spoke with an immigration attorney and he said, the only way for you to stay in the United States is to tell the truth.

And so when I told my parents at that time, I was like, look, I need to tell the truth because I need to get this weight off my shoulders.

They said, no, you need to just leave the country.

That is what led to not jail, not everything else.

I felt like, that's what broke the straw on the camel's back.

That's what led me into this huge depression spiral because for the first time, it's like I felt the weight of you know, they don't care about you.

These people don't care about you.

You don't have a God who cares about you, So what's the point of living?

That's where I was.

It was like, what's the point of even being alive?

And so I became suicidal.

And during that time is when the Lord started sending me dreams more often.

I mean, there was a dream I had where I would wake up in the middle of the night and someone would say, Kenza, your father's calling you.

In my dream, Kenza, your father's calling you.

And I would wake up and it was I didn't understand it because as a Muslim, you don't see God as father, and so I just took it from an earthly perspective.

So during that time, there was a man in my life who had spoken life into me over the course of a couple of years.

He had tried to recruit me into the military years prior.

And we just kept in touch ever since I was in high school.

And I saw the way he loved his wife and he was a Christian.

Now, he never condemned me for being Muslim.

He just lived his life the way he did.

And so whenever I was depressed, I would call him and say, hey, this is what I'm going through, and he would just talk about just how in his religion, which was Christianity, this is how they do things, is what they believe, and stuff like that.

And so between that and other friends and what led to my actual conversion was a dream.

I had a dream October twenty twenty I'm sorry, twenty twelve, October twenty twelve that it was the end times.

In my dream, I saw what looked like it was like the sky opened, and I saw a man in a white robe descending from the sky.

And that man was Jesus.

And how did you know it was Jesus because you're a Muslim.

Yes, I have no idea.

There's got to be something about the heart of man who knows that's Jesus because I was not.

I mean, anytime anytime anything Christian would come up on TV when I was Muslim, my parents would turn it off or and so we were watching Al Jazeera a lot, which was Arabic TV, and so we were very sheltered, and so when I saw him, you can't deny him.

I mean he was coming down and his arms wide open, and I mean it was just it was incredible, and has he was approaching me and looking at me.

I woke up.

And so during the next eight to ten months, I'm I wish I could tell you I woke up and gave my life to Jesus and everything was great.

But no, for a Muslim to give their life to Jesus, it means you have to leave your father, mother, brother, sisters, everything.

And I didn't make that decision within a day or two.

It took me eight to ten months.

Instead, I actually dove into a new age because I tried to see if there was any other way besides Jesus.

And I mean I went to the library, I remember, and I was checking out books on palm reading and every possible thing because I was so it was unfathomable to me.

The love of God was unfathomable to me.

I didn't understand that I could go from one mean master to one who is he nice?

Is he really nice?

And so yeah, I tried to trail or blaze my own trail, and that didn't work, and so I remember the piece I felt in my dream.

It was this peace that made no sense, and so I held on to that.

And yeah, one day I decided I'm going to make that decision.

I moved to I moved out of state though for safety reasons.

I lived in Virginia back then.

So I moved to South Carolina.

And yeah, the Lord used that man that I told you about as a Phillip.

I called him one day outside in a parking lot and I said, hey, I moved to South Carolina, and so I don't know what to do now.

And he was like, well, have you actually gotten saved?

I was like, what does that mean?

I thought I needed to take tests and quizzes in Christianity to pass, you know, like this admission.

You can't.

I'm like, what do you mean, you can just become a believer.

He was like right then and there, glad.

He opened up his Bible while on the phone, and he said, Romans ten to nine says, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus's Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you are saved.

And he said, do you repent of your sins?

Do you give your life to Jesus, and right there in a parking lot, I gave my life to Jesus was the phone over the phone in a parking lot.

Now I still had legalism in me, so I made sure to do it again at church, just in case God didn't accept the parking lot.

It's funny.

I mean, you just well, you know, God took you out of Islam and taking Islam out of you, that's just that's a process.

It really that has That was I feel like the biggest process.

Absolutely, yeah, And so that's incredible.

How did your family, I mean, you were I'm assuming already distant from them physically.

Were they disappointed in you?

Did they kind of completely ostracize you?

Are they believers now or still believing for them to know Christ?

Like?

What is that situation?

Because I know, and not just in Islam, but in most of the cultures outside of the United States, people are very tribal, people are very communal.

It's in the United States that you know, you can be twelve year old and you can choose to be whatever under you want and kind of everybody kind of has their own little world everywhere outside of the United States, Like it's not just about your religion.

It's about your family.

Everything is intervened.

When you leave one, you pretty much lose business, you lose connections, you can get kicked out of school.

I mean, I came from former Soviet Union, and you pretty much you're dead when you become a Christian.

When my great grandfather actually was locked up in jail for five years, tortured to death and killed after that, and he was led from a church with a gun pointed to his back because of belief in Christ.

So like, I have a little bit more of, I guess.

An understanding and appreciation for the other cultures.

When I come to in the United States, it's a completely different, you know, world and stuff.

So how was you, How did your family take it?

And like, where's that at now?

If you feel comfortable sharing that?

No, absolutely yes.

So I once I left, I hadn't seen them in a couple of years, and one day, at this point a couple of years had passed and I I met my husband, were married, and we're living in our home and one day we just I mean they tracked this down and they were I mean, we heard beating on the doors, people trying to open our windows from the back, and I mean, it was like you would think the slot team was outside.

It was like crazy, and so my husband was like, let me go talk to them, have a logical conversation with them.

And I was like, you cannot be logical with them.

They will kill you because I have converted that they want me to convert back.

And so we called the I wanted it to be on the record, and unfortunately the first time around, I was so scared.

I was hiding under a desk and I called the police because I was like, today is the day I'm going to die?

And you know what, I guess this is it.

So I called the police and I'll and I had to be politically correct so I don't sound like an islamophobe.

And so I was like, hey, this is what's going on, and you know, they showed up and so yeah, I mean the police, police officers showed up and he explained to them that this is a free country that I'm allowed to worship the God I want to worship, and to basically leave us alone.

And so they left and ever since then they have been back every couple of years.

I mean they have The Lord has blessed us with a counsel in practice with multiple locations, and they have shown up in multiple locations and posed as patients saying we're here to see Kenza.

And so every time the Lord has protected us.

I mean there was a time, Glad when I was just on the other side of the wall, conducted in interview.

Now granted I don't remember that interview or what I asked or anything, because I could hear them on the other side, and the Lord protected us.

I mean he did every single time.

And you know, the first time, I'm like, Lord, why am I going through this?

I don't want to know.

I don't want to go through this.

But time and time again, honestly, it shows me the sovereignty of the Lord because he is there when they leave their home hours away to come to harass us, and he still shows his sovereignty and not letting them get anywhere near us.

So yeah, So.

How did you end up going into studying narcissism and clinical trauma profession?

Like how did that kind of come about?

And your passion project, you know, like where you're unmasking this you're talking about this is Does your testimony have anything to do with it or was it just like one of the career choices you went into.

The first time I felt the Holy Spirit was when I got a call in for counseling, because you know, as a Muslim you don't have the Holy Spirit.

They're really lack of conscience and everything.

And so I felt it's almost like there was a you know where it says in the Bible, how we'll give you.

He will give us a new heart, and he will replace the heart of stone with the heart of flesh.

And all of a sudden, I remember, within months of giving my life to Jesus, I started feeling this like desire to go into the field of counseling.

I didn't want to go into it because first of all, I grew up in such dysfunction.

I was like, I have no credibility, Like pick someone else who's like I don't know how to clean life or something.

I have so many like I came to the Lord with a rap sheet and so I just the desire would not go away.

And finally I went to my pastor and I was like, hey, I just keep having this pull to go back to school into the field of counseling, and it just won't go away.

Can you pray for me?

And he prayed for me, and that's how I met my husband.

He was part of the group that prayed for me.

And so yeah, it was it was really incredible because yeah, from then on and so I went back to school and the Lord just put I mean, I went through trauma in my own life, and so I can level with someone who's gone through trauma I feel like, and of course, you know, I need the Lord to help me with all of that.

It's just if we go now and start, let's unpack a little bit more of that.

What actually makes someone a narcissist?

And could you give us or is it true that the word narcissists is coming from a Greek myth about a young guy who was looking in the pool of water and fell in love with his own face or something like that.

Could you kind of unpack that, What does it mean to be a narcissist?

And is narcissism rooted in biology, environment, trauma or combination of all of that.

Yeah.

Yeah, so that is a great question because so there is clinical research that was done and they have actually found a biological marker to narcissism, which really affirms what the Bible says, Right, all of us were born with selfish tendencies, with a sinful nature.

We were all born with that, apart from the Lord Jesus Christ, and I truly believe that.

And so science only confirms with what the Bible says.

Now, environments also affects whether someone continues and actually becomes a full blown narcissist, which means they meet the diagnostic criteria of narcissism or they don't.

And what we have found is there are two different environmental patterns that create someone to become a narcissist.

One is they have gone through trauma in their lives.

We live in a fallen world.

We're going to be hurt, right, But if we take every hurt experience and instead of bringing it to the Lord or forgive it, we actually turn it into bitterness.

What happens is there's a root of insecurity that grows, and because of that root of insecurity, that person literally goes into overcompensation mode.

And so they start trying to overcompensate for their insecurity for things they feel like they're fall short on, and because of that, they meet the criteria for a narcissistic personality disorder.

And so the other one, which sometimes can be overlooked.

And I always talk to mamas out there and dads, but I see it a lot and moms with their children is if there's a golden child in the house or a child who is doted over.

Because here's the way I explain it, we were born with a sinful nature.

Okay, if some kid praise is great.

But if a kid is overly praised and they're overly doted over, and that parent is insecure and they elevate their child to a place where they don't need to be, that kid is literally going to go out there into the real world and think, well, I need to receive applause when I walk in the building.

What do you mean I'm gonna get written up when I miss my job, when I miss going to work, what do you mean?

Or to the girlfriend, or or if it's a girl, to the boyfriend, what do you mean?

You're not treating me very special?

And so they become dissatisfied with anything less than anyone glorifying them.

What are the two main types of narcissistic personalities and how do they show up in your life?

Yeah, there's the covert, which I call cover, the undercover narcissist, and the over and that is the power hungry narcissist.

Right, So the power hungry narcissist is going to be loud, They're going to seek admiration, very They're gonna flaw themselves.

They're going to seek admiration.

They're going to literally be the type of person who will put you down in front of other people and not care because in their mind they have a goal and if you're getting in their way, then they have to eliminate you.

They have no conscious.

A good example of that person would be Pharaoh or in the Bible, or Jezebel in the Bible.

They both meet the diagnostic I stud their life and they both meet the diagnostic criteria for narcissistic personality disorder.

Now, the undercover narcissist is much more I would say it's much more subtle.

Now.

They both they both describe the enemy's characteristics in two different ways.

The undercover is more quiet, they're more they may be charming, they may use self pity over and over to get attention.

That person is more manipulative.

They'll use guilt.

They'll use manipulation because guilt is a great motive motivator.

So they'll they'll guilt tripute they'll use.

Just would you say that the undercover one has also a fragile self esteem?

Oh?

Absolutely absolutely, But see they will talk.

See, narcissists always come off as they don't they have a high self esteem, But they don't.

They do not because they don't operate from a praise of rest.

They operate from a place of I need to show off so that people can see me, and they feed off of affirmation from people, Whereas you know, if we have a secure self esteem, then we're not going, Yeah, praise is great, but we don't feed off of it.

It doesn't feed our identity.

It may be like the icing on the cake, but we don't need it.

How would you what are the some of the signs that a person, because it's possible sometimes you listen to a description of a narcissistic person and you know, kind of you want to put everybody like, oh, yeah, everybody in my life is a narcissist or I feel like I could be a narcissist on any given day.

But what would be some of the tale signs that you are dealing actually with a narcissistic person, not just a person who had a bad day.

And That's a great question, because that is something I get asked, and I'm like, Okay, if you catch me on a bad day, you're going to be like, is she really walking with the Lord?

You know?

And so we have to be very careful.

And the person first of all narcissistic.

That's why it's called personality.

This order.

That means these behaviors are displayed over a period of months to years.

This is not like somebody who's going through grief of losing their job and they're just upset and they're going off on people.

No, this is personality issue.

It's months to years.

They don't ever think they have a problem.

They blame a lot, or they will rationalize.

Watch out for defence mechanisms because here's the thing.

As children of the living God.

Yeah, I may rationalize or try to blame my way into something, but the Lord's conviction will make me want to make it right at some point.

And so they have a hardened heart.

And so they don't feel bad about calling you names.

And I won't go into the names, but they have a hardened heart.

There's no repentance.

Even if they say I'm sorry, it's i'm sorry you feel that way.

Not I am, so it's not genuine repentance.

I am so sorry for what I did, and if I could go back, I would I would do it differently.

You know, there's a huge difference in it, So pay attention to the apology.

And also, this is a huge marker of dealing with someone who is narcissistic, is you start questioning your reality and you start wondering if you're losing your mind.

And and sometimes they'll even come in victims of narcissistic abuse, or I would say survivors will come in and say, after they have left that relationship or even friendship or are dealing with it, they're like, is there anything I could have done differently to make that person not treat me that way?

So they make the person almost like you feel like you're you're responsible for their emotions and you can help me.

Wow, can you break down four main traps of a narcissistic abuse?

And how can somebody find out if they're actually stuck in that right now?

Yes?

Absolutely so.

The the one I like to start out with is called the over accommodating trap.

And here's why the over accommodator always attracts the narcissist.

They attract each other now because the over accommodator says, how what can I do to make your life better?

The narcissist says, what can you do to make my life better?

And so they attract each other.

And and so the person who over accommodates their performance based and so they want to see people happy.

They they they struggle with people pleasing.

They want they just want people to be happy.

And sometimes, look, there's nothing wrong with having a servant's heart, absolutely, but there's once it crosses over the threshold of it feeding your identity, that's it.

That's when it's not good.

The narcissistic person is never going to or someone who is a true narcissist is never going to attract someone who is healthy and secure because they can't because someone who is healthy and secure is not going to elevate the narcissists because they already have God on the throne of their life.

So that's over accommodating.

There is also the cycle of rebellion, which I fell into a lot in my life in dealing with narcissistic abuse.

And that is when you're like, you know what, I'm never going to please this person.

So I'm just going to go do my own thing.

And that's not healthy either, because the problem with that is we start making vowels about our lives that we should not have made, and we have to renounce those vowels at some point we're like, you know, I'm never going to be like this person, or like, for example, if you dealt with a narcissistic let's just say mom.

Like, let's just say I dealt with a narcissistic mom, then I'm going to be like, I'm never going to be like my mom, or I'm never going to pair it like my mom.

So now I'm living out a vow and anytime I fall short of that vow with my own kids, I'm going to fall into shame.

That's an open door for the enemy, and so we have to be very careful of That is the third trip self sabotage, and self sabotage is going to look like a lot of times either cutting or substance abuse, pornography, and a lot of people say, well, I mean I've even had a woman one time say well, you know, me going out to bars and do an X, Y and Z is that's not self sabotage.

But but it is.

It is anytime we are destroying ourselves or making decisions that are self destructive from the inside out.

That is, whether it's destructive to our body through having multiple sexual partners or pornography or anything that's going to dilute or walk with the Lord and is self destructive, that's self sabotage.

The fourth one, which every once in a while statistically this happens, is the cycle of arrogance, and that is when a narcissistic person.

Usually this happens every once in a while with a parent child, there will be a narcissistic parent who brings forth a narcissistic child, and that's how the cycle continues generationally.

Okay, so somebody's listening to that name already popped up.

What do you do if you are in a relationship, specifically if you're like married to a person like that, because there's one where it's like, if you're working with them, they are your friend, you can kind.

Of distance yourself.

What about those that you kind of realize, Hey, I am married to a narcissist.

Yeah, So here's what I would say.

First of all, we have to look within first and ask ourselves.

Okay, what attracted me to this person?

Because and I hate this and I'm not trying to victimize the victim at all, but I do believe that it starts with us first, and I have to ask the question to myself and say, you know what, what led me?

What made me attracted to this person?

Because narcissistic people usually start out by love bombing you, and so that if that person, what that means is they gave you so much praise in the beginning to hook you, and then once you were hooked, they dropped the ball.

And now but you were still you're still holding on to the version that they presented to you beforehand.

And so we have to repent of that, and I go through all the steps in the book.

We have to start within ourselves.

And just like just like with Adam and Eve, the Lord asked Adam, where are you?

So we have to ask ourselves where am i?

And so ask yourself what attracted me to that person?

Find out which trap you're caught up in, and there will be some repentance that ask to be not on your part.

And I would say, and listen, I understand it's very difficult to forgive the person.

This doesn't mean you need to condone abuse or anything like that.

Like, of course, if there is abuse in the home, I say, you have to be very safe, make sure your children are safe as well.

But that doesn't mean you can't pray for the person.

It is very hard.

Now I'm not saying because I've heard people in this case say Lord strike them down.

I'm like, that is not the prayer we need to be praying.

No, no, no, So genuinely pray for that person, because here's the thing.

You have to understand who the true narcissist is, and that is the devil, and he's using that person in your life, whether it's a spouse or not, as literally as a tool to target you.

And so spend time with the Lord.

You have to work so hard to get your worth from God, because if you continue to try to get your worth from your husband, or if you're a man, from your wife, then you're continuing to place your sense of value on that person's approval.

They're not going to give it to you.

That that person's not the one who died for you at Calvary.

That person's not the one who called you chosen and called your redeemed.

That person doesn't have the capacity to set your worth and so that's another thing you have to do.

And there is something to setting emotional boundaries.

It's okay to set emotional boundaries.

It's okay to say, hey, you know, the way you talk to me the other day was very hurtful, and so I would appreciate it if you don't talk to me like that.

If they say, I don't know what you're talking about, you're crazy, your this, your dad, you spoke your truth, it doesn't mean they need to receive it.

They don't have.

You have to get give up the tendency to want the recipient to receive that truth.

They're not going to receive it, and also pray for the conviction of the Holy Spirit and pray for their heart to be.

Receptive, because do you think that.

I feel like a lot of people what they do is they try to go and change the narcissist right away, correct them, you know, rebuke them, Hey you're a narcissist.

And typically one of the traits of narcissists they're blind to their own faults.

And if they are going to apologize, it's just enough so you will get off of their bag.

And like you said, it's more like, Hey, I'm sorry that I hurt your feelings, but they actually don't see their fault and there is no genuine repentance.

So praying and almost creating these consequences for them where if they're emotionally abusive, to distance yourself from them, and if they are continuing to speak those things to say, I will not respond to that, and that kind of tone of voice and that kind of a I am not responding to that.

I'm walking away from this conversation.

We are not going to have this and then and actually sticking with it because maybe Holy Spirit can use that like pigs for the prodigal some to kind of wake them up to come back to themselves.

Is there anything else you've seen, or any kind of conversations or circumstances that a person who is on the receiving end of living with a narcissist or being with a narcissist that could help a narcissist to come back to themselves into the conviction of the Holy Spirit.

Or you see this as only a supernatural work of the Holy Spirit and some crazy circumstances that God will use to kind of knock them down.

I've only experienced the person being changed by the power of the Holy Spirit.

And I mean there is nothing that anybody can do to and yes, it's going you're going to get tired of praying for them.

You will.

And the more you pray for them, the enemy's going to use them to attack you even more because he wants you to stop praying for them.

That's good, and.

That happens a lot.

You start praying for that person, the enemy will start attacking you through that person because he doesn't want the prayers.

He doesn't want that person to come to repentance.

He's using them as a weapon to hurt you and other people.

And so pray for them and pray for their heart to soften that.

To answer your question, it's always in my experience, even from personal to clinical, it has only been through the power of the Holy Spirit that that person either sees their spouse literally just being at peace without them, and so then it makes them look within like what's going on with me?

Or something happens that causes them to return to the Lord.

And here's the thing.

There is a possibility for someone to return to the Lord from narcissism.

I mean, look at Jacob in the Bible, he fit the criteria for covert narcissistic personality disorder, and literally the Lord changed him from the inside out, even changed his name to Israel and built the nation of Israel on him.

That's a really good point.

That's a really good point.

But most of the work that the Lord probably will do first is with the people who are not a narcissist, but are actually either living with one or being affected by one.

And sometimes when the Holy Spirit really gets hold of their heart.

Also, like you mentioned, sometimes we have to look within it almost like triggers a chain reaction within the actual narcissist, either to get crazier.

Or for the Holy Spirit to actually.

Come in and start to kind of knock them down.

Would you pray for people that are like this is very painful for them even hearing this, because this describes their life, and they're kind of tired of trusting in God to brain change, and they're you know, exhausted.

Even a lot of people experience almost like a spiritual fittigue, like I'm praying for this person, nothing is changing, and it's just it's just.

Better to quit and walk away.

Would you pray for the people on the receiving end who are victims of living around being around people who have a narcissistic personality.

Absolutely yes, I'll pray right now, faithful Father God, thank you Lord for this day.

And Lord, thank you for each and every listener.

Let's listening right now.

Lord, as we lift them up, I pray that they would feel your tangible presence with them even right now, Lord, I pray that you would draw them to you, that they would experience your tangible love and know God that even though they don't feel beloved in their home and their environment wherever they are dealing in this with this relationship, God, I pray that they would see themselves as beloved in You.

Father, Thank you for the calling in their lives.

Lord, I pray that you would rec for their joy, that you would renew their strength, Father God, and I pray that as they walk in the coming days and weeks and months, that they walk in the power and might of the Holy Spirit.

Father.

I pray for your peace that surpasses understanding to surround them.

And Lord, I pray that you would silence the enemy's voice from their minds.

Lord God, and I pray that your voice would be louder and Father, I pray that you would use this opportunity even to God.

Your word says that you use whatever the enemy means for evil for good.

That you would use this opportunity to draw them closer to you and strengthen them even more spiritually, that they would become examples Father to those around them.

And Lord, I pray that you would repurpose their pain, and that you would use it Father to draw someone to you, Lord God, and we love you, And that is in Jesus' name.

Amen, Yes, Lord, thank you.

What is the one single most important truth you would want people to take away from your book Unmasking Narcissism?

That is that our worth did not We didn't create our own worth.

Our worth was not generated from other human beings.

Our worth came from the Lord.

It was set by him.

It was established by him.

And he's the one who holds our worth in his hands.

And so nobody gets to call you unworthy, nobody gets to call you any other name, because your worth and your identity has already been sealed in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Come on, Kensea, if somebody wants to get this book or learn more about your ministry, where they can do that.

It's available anywhere books are sold, Barnes and Noble, Amazon, and they're welcome to find me at www dot Kenzahaddock dot com.

Okay, awesome, Well, thank you so much for your time sharing your story being vulnerable about how the Lord has brought you to faith and also sharing I believe these practical things will help a lot of people, because I've been getting quite some response already from our audience concerning this topic.

And really appreciate your.

Time absolutely, Thank you so much for having me.

Thank you for watching this video.

Since twenty twenty, our ministry has reached over two hundred eighty million people online.

We released over eighty two resources in eighteen languages, and have about one hundred sixty thousand students in our school and we distribute thousands of books even into prisons and closed nations.

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God bless and remember you will raise to deliver.