Hi, I'm Rich and I'm Tina.

If there's one thing we've learned in over twenty years of.

Marriage, it's that some days you'll feel like killing your husband, and.

Some days you'll feel like killing your wife.

Welcome to love, Mary Kill.

Hey Tina, Hey Rich, How are you today?

I am fine.

I accidentally heard our podcast the other day, just the opening, and I was like, I hate that person.

Did you accidentally hear it?

You know, sometimes you would just go on like YouTube or something, just you know, to look at something, and then it starts and I'm like, uh, who is that annoying person?

So my apologies.

That was when you heard my voice.

I'm assuming, Oh no, no, you sound lovely.

I'm the same way.

I listen to our podcast more than you because I do some of the editing.

I don't.

Our son does most of it now, but I do a little bit, and so I have to listen to it at times that I hate hearing my own voice.

I love hearing yours, though it makes me smile.

Yeah, you know, I know we all have that thing.

But opposite, I think you have a really nice voice.

I don't know why you would ate it.

Yeah, just I think everyone just doesn't like their own voice.

Yeah, there's a very special day coming up.

It was today, Well it's for most people who will be listening to this on Monday, it will be today, and that is it will.

Be the birthday of at least three bad people.

We covered and one very good person who is on who is talking on our podcast right now.

You yep, thanks.

I know you don't like.

To be I sure don't the center.

You don't like that over Do you have presents?

Do you have cake on your birthday?

Maybe I will?

Well you're telling people it's my birthday, but no gifts for me?

Will?

It will?

Thank you so much?

Do what we kind of make it special.

Let's move on.

Well, let's talk about cheesecake first.

So for me it's cherry chip cake is my thing, and for you, you don't get to eat cheese cake because nobody else in our family, indeed you're not allowed.

Nobody else in our family really likes it.

But on your birthday, of course, you get what you want, So you want not always.

You should get what you want, and you want some cheesecake, not always sometimes.

I really there's a lot of desserts that I like that you don't.

One of them is carrot cake.

I love carrot cake.

So what would you like for this birthday?

I would like us not to talk about my birthday on the podcast.

Definitely makes you uncomfortable.

It sure does.

It's weird because I am a pretty I'm not a quiet person, but I don't like you.

Do not like to be the center of attention.

Do not like to be the center of attention.

I like to sit in the corner and make devastatingly witty comments every now and then.

That's that's who I am.

Oh, you're very good at that.

I appreciate it.

I appreciate the effort.

All right, we can move on now.

So did you make me cheesecake today?

Not yet, but I think I'm going to go get you a piece of cheesecake.

Yeah.

I would prefer no offense, but I would prefer that.

Yeah.

I figured that the.

Cheesecake factory does make the in my opinion, the best cheesecake.

Make a road trip for you.

You're awful sweet, Thank you.

Twenty twenty six has just begun and we have not talked about Love Mary Kill's contract negotiations and what it's going to take to keep me here on the podcast.

Really I have had other offers.

Oh that's right, you did have another offer in this right, Yeah, all right, so lay it on me.

Well, I think we should talk about this off air.

To be honest with you, I don't think we should air.

I need to hold you accountable, sir.

If we don't talk about it on air, you will not abide by.

Give me your demands that I will consider them off the air.

Okay.

One is I would like to start every episode with a frosty crisp, diet pepsi or diet coked okay on ice.

Yeah, the guests like the guests station.

Because I'm an elite princess, I will limit sports conversations to fifteen seconds or less every episode.

Seen second.

That's the listeners would approve it.

The Bears are doing well, so I guess I can abide by that for the next few weeks.

So that's another funny story.

I have to tell the listeners at the end of the episode.

We don't have enough.

We have to wrap this up pretty quickly, even though I have a whole list of demands that I will present to you at a later date.

But okay, see, my name always needs to come first.

Oh, you should have to like pull my chair out for me, and no vegetables, no snacks as vegetables, which I'm really surprised you didn't do yesterday.

But we'll talk more about it later and we'll circle back.

Wow, Okay, I had no idea you had all these things that you were like keeping bottled up that you really wanted to change.

But okay, I take it under consideration.

Okay, did you bring me a snack?

Though I did?

And vegetables no, So this I did actually make you an authentic South African snack.

It called Malva pudding.

And what does that?

That sound good to you?

It looks really interesting.

It smells really good.

It was in the you cooked it.

It's almost more like a cake, thank so.

The cake it's not that different from it.

I think it looks like a very moist kind of cake.

Like there's basically sugar, eggs, flour, butter, and then there's like a sauce you pour over it after it comes out of the oven.

And the sauce has like cream and sugar and butter, and that sounds soaks into it.

So the only thing that's a little odd in it is apricot jam.

But there's really only like a tablespoon of apricot.

You really love apricot jam in South Africa?

Yeah, so should we give it to give it a try?

No, I'll just look at it.

Let's give it a try.

What did you think about the Melva pudding.

I thought it was delicious.

I liked it too.

It's really good.

Taste like Kentucky buttercake a little bit.

Yeah, yeah, maybe the sauce is similar.

Yeah, just a very moist cake, sweet little vanilla flavor in there, and.

Yeah, delicious.

Thank you so much.

I would rate that like a nine point six out of ten.

I would rate it a nine point five out of ten.

I will post the recipe in our show notes and let us know if you try it.

I had committed to not eating sugar than my birthday in the month of January, so.

Ye have to make an acception.

I can't have it both ways because I already told you I did want vegetables.

But yeah, that was great.

Yeah, thank you.

Let's dive back into the story of Revastine camp and Oscar Pistorius.

Would you like to give us a quick recap of Part one?

Sure would.

In Part one, we talked about Oscar's childhood, born with a rare condition called fibular hamamlia.

His parents made the heart wrenching decision to have both his legs amputated below the knee when he was just a baby, but that turned out to be the best thing for him.

He had incredible determination, driven to show everyone that he was a normal boy.

His father left the family when he was young, and his mother died when he was just fifteen.

At age sixteen, Oscar took up running and very quickly became the greatest Paralympic sprinter ever.

He even competed in the London Olympic Games in twenty twelve, overcoming many obstacles to get there.

Despite his outward golden boy image, he struggled with interpersonal relationships.

He developed a pairt with women he dated, starting out insecure and afraid of being ridiculed, then quickly grew attached and dependent.

He was controlling and prone to rapid mood swings, going from mister nice guy to angry and rage filled at the drop of a hat.

According to Samantha Taylor, his last serious relationship before meeting Reva Steamcamp.

When we ended part one, it was November fourth, twenty twelve, Samantha had been trying to make things work with Oscar, but decided that she'd had enough.

She told Oscar that she wasn't going to accompany him to the Red Carpet Sports Awards ceremony that evening.

Before we get back to the story, I was thinking about this, and I wanted to ask you the choice that his parents had to make when he was just a baby and they found out that his legs were deformed, and they had different doctors advising them of different things.

What would what do you think you would do if you put yourself in that situation like today?

I think we have Oscar Pistorius as an example of what they probably the best thing to do is, but they didn't have that at the time.

It must have been a really, really difficult decision for them.

His legs were so severely deformed that they were unusable right and he would have never been able to walk on them, no matter how many surgeries he would have had.

So I think they made the right decision.

I think that I would have made the same decision.

Yeah, I think so too, But I can't imagine how hard that must have been.

Were Samantha and Oscar done done.

That depends on who you ask.

I think I heard an interview with her later where she said, yes, she was done.

But then I've heard other interviews where she was supposedly jealous that he went out with Riva, that he was cheating on her.

So I'm not sure.

You know, these things are always depends on who you ask and when you ask it right.

Coincidentally, the very same day that Samantha told Oscar she wouldn't accompany him to the Sports Awards ceremony, Oscar Metriva Steinkamp.

They were introduced by a mutual friend and affluent businessman who owned several luxury car dealerships in South Africa.

From the moment they met, Oscar was captivated.

Reva was strikingly beautiful, but it was her confidence that stood out most.

She was three years older than Oscar, and he immediately sensed that she was more mature, more grounded, and worldly than the women he had dated before.

If you remember, Samantha Taylor was seventeen when he started dating her, a year and a half earlier, so to go from someone six years younger than him or seven years younger than him to someone three years older must have had quite an impact.

On him, definitely.

Reva was drawn to Oscar as well.

He was undeniably handsome, with an unmistakable star quality, but beneath that public image she saw something softer, a man who was shy, polite, almost old fashioned in his manners, with a gentle voice that didn't match the bravado that people associated with elite athletes.

Oscar needed a date for the evening's events, the Sports Awards he was scheduled to attend.

On impulse, he asked Reva if she would go with him.

She didn't hesitate.

She said yes.

Riven knew Oscar was well known, but she didn't fully grasp the scale of his fame until later that night, standing beside him on the red carpet as cameras flashed and reporters crowded in.

It was a different world, one that she had just stepped into.

I am shocked that she said yes, because most women would be like, well, that's a black time event.

What do I you know?

Yeah, well she was a model.

I mean she was a fairly successful model, so.

A lot of nice dresses in her Yeah, and I.

Think she was somewhat used to public attention, and you know, she was known, but obviously not on the scale that Oscar was known.

Here's a short clip of Reva speaking with a reporter that evening, that first evening they met, in the first state that they had.

It's a little bit hard to hear her, just because she was losing her voice at the time.

I'm Oscar, state tonight, you needed a date to the last minute, so it's likely just throw your stuff together, come and be my days's funny.

Hey don't know how that worked out.

Just I'm excited just to like enjoy the evening, entertainment, just everything as a whole, just a find night out, something different, not a club, anything boring.

It's exciting.

Oscar is a very really sicky boy, but he doesn't do it, and I can arrogant obnoxious way he does it in a very class you act to say it.

Anyways, you said good suits on Yeah, so.

J I think it's interesting hearing just, you know, audio from someone's first date.

If we could go back to our first date and hear audio, that would be probably really cringey, actually, but it would be interesting to hear.

Why would it be cringey to hear audio from our first date?

It just would be I'm quite certain of that.

I sure we have a first date, but we had like our first you meet, our first meeting when we met at church, Yes, at our friend's wedding.

Yeah, yes, which we have talked about in the past.

I should mention about that clip that I did.

I cut out the reporters questions because you couldn't really hear them.

So when she was talking about Oscar being a sexy boy, that was in response to a reporter asking her, you know, a question along those lines.

So she I'm sure knew of Oscar.

Yeah, oh yeah.

That night, after the event ended and the attention faded, Oscar and Reva stayed up talking until nearly three am.

It felt effortless, unrushed, like the beginning of something important.

Neither of them could have known how quickly and how completely their lives were about to become intertwined.

Riva Steencamp was born in August nineteen eighty three in Cape Town, though her family moved to Port Elizabeth when she was still young.

Her father, Barry Steencamp, worked as a racehorse trainer.

Her mother, June, and her father each had a child from their previous marriage, and they believed their family was complete until June learned she was pregnant with Reva.

From the moment she was born, they treated her like a princess.

The family was poor.

The home they lived in was modest, barely an improvement over the houses that black families were forced to live in during the apartheid era, but it was a loving household, and Riva grew up feeling supported and adored.

She was a happy child who did well in school.

Teachers remembered her as easy going and kind, someone who looked out for others and rarely caused trouble.

As a teenager, Riva entered the Miss Poored Elizabeth pageant and made it to the finals, an early hint of the poise and confidence she carried naturally.

After finishing school, Reva set her sights on studying law.

Her parents couldn't afford university tuition, but she refused to give up.

She pushed herself academically and earned a scholarship to attend Nelson Mandela University, where she enrolled in a Bachelor of Law program, the foundational qualification required to practice law in South Africa.

Horses were a constant presence in Reva's life growing up around her father's work She loved writing from an early age.

She often woke before dawn to accompany him to the track, helping exercise the horses he trained.

It was there she met a jockey named Wayne Agrella, and the two would date for six years.

While in law school, Reva suffered a serious accident.

She fell from a horse and crushed too vertebrae in her spine.

She spent six weeks in a hospital bed while doctors debated whether she would ever walk again, and she did, Horses scare me so much.

They're so big, and.

That fall from yes, amazing, but yes a little scary.

Reva made a full recovery, though, but the accident changed her outlook.

She stopped riding horses, ended her long term relationship, and began rethinking what she wanted from life.

After finishing her law degree, she decided to pursue modeling.

Her parents were concerned, but Rever reassured them it was temporary.

Law she promised would still be there later.

I know I didn't know a lot about Reva Steamcamp before researching this case, but everyone thinks of her as a model and a TV star.

But the fact that she really she had her law degree, she was able to practice law and was planning on doing that at some point.

I think a lot of people, myself included, didn't really realize.

Yeah.

At twenty two, degree in hand, she moved to Johannesburg to try to make it as a model.

Her first major break came quickly.

She was selected as the white representative for Avon South Africa, part of a broader racially representative program.

Though she was slightly shorter than and the typical runway model, just five seven, she signed with ICE Modeling aid agency and steadily picked up work.

The career defining breakthrough she hoped for hadn't yet arrived, but she was earning enough money to support herself, and she even sent money home to help her parents.

Reva built a busy social life in Johannesburg.

She loved dancing.

She spent time with close friends, and from two thousand and eight to twenty twelve dated a businessman named Warren Lahoud.

In October two thousand and eight, while visiting her parents in Port Elizabeth, Reva experienced a terrifying home invasion.

She and her mother were alone when intruders ripped burglar bars from a window and stormed inside.

The two locked themselves in a bedroom, frozen in fear as the house was ransacked.

The incident shook them both deeply, and each later sought counseling.

By twenty ten, Reva's modeling career began to gain momentum.

She appeared in advertisements for a Toyota Hidden Pop, Lollipops, Cardinal Beer, and Hollywood Chewing Gum.

Then came a major milestone in twenty eleven, Riva was chosen for the cover of FHM South Africa's December issue, a career breakthrough that brought her national attention.

In mid twenty twelve, another opportunity followed.

Reva was cast on a South African reality television series called Tropica Island of Treasure.

The show featured a mix of celebrities and everyday contestants competing in a luxury island setting for a grand prize of one million Rand roughly sixty thousand US dollars.

Her season was filmed in Jamaica.

The first episode aired just two days after Reva's death.

That's devastating.

That must have been so hard for people to watch that.

The show closed with Reva speaking about her philosophy about competition, integrity and staying true to herself.

You literally fall in love with Jamaica.

You fall in love with being in love with love.

So is one love every way.

I'm going home with sort of a sweet taste in my mouth.

I don't have any regrets, i don't have any bitterness.

I take home with me so many amazing memories.

And things that are in Pia, that are in Pia.

But I'll treage your forever.

I think the way that you go out, not just your journey in life, but the way that you go out and you make your exits is so important.

You either made an impact in a positive way or a negative way, but just maintain integrity and maintain class and just always be true to yourself.

And I'm gonna miss you all so much, and I love.

You very very much.

The last part, in the context of you know, airing that two days after her death, just seems so wrenching.

Yeah, it was a reflection of who Reaver had always been, driven, resilient and still searching for what came next.

It didn't take long for ask for Pastorius to decide that reaverstein Camp was the one.

After their first night together, he told friends he had no doubts This was the woman he wanted to marry, the woman he wanted to have children with.

Riva leaned into his world.

She took an interest in the things Oscar cared about the most.

She went to the track with him while he trained, and even took up running herself.

She shared his love of fast cars.

She didn't move in with him, but she spent a great deal of time at his home, sometimes staying there even when Oscar was out of town.

But within a couple of months, familiar patterns began to re emerge.

Oscar wanted to be with Reva constantly.

When they weren't together, he fluttered her phone with messages.

At first, she was unsettled.

She confided to friends that she had mixed feelings about his intensity, that his attention sometimes felt less like affection and more like pressure.

Riva was also now firmly in the public eye.

It was visibility she had long wanted for her career, but now it came with added scrutiny and stress.

Two weeks for her death, the strains surfaced, and a long text exchange between them.

It followed an engagement party for a mutual friend, an evening that had clearly gone badly Reva initiated the conversation, sending Oscar a message that, while lengthy, would later be seen as very revealing.

This first text from Riva is really really long, but I thought it was important to read the whole thing because it does give you a glimpse into the dynamics that were shaping up in their relationship.

Okay, I'm not one hundred percent sure why I'm sitting down to type you a message first, but perhaps it says a lot about what's going on here.

Today was one of my best friend's engagements, and I wanted to stay longer.

I was enjoying myself, but it's over now.

You have picked on me incessantly since you got back from Cape Town, and I understand that you are sick, but it's nasty.

Yesterday wasn't nice for either of us, but we managed to pull through and communicate well enough to show our care for each other is greater than the drama that attacked us.

I was not f alting with anyone today.

I feel sick that you suggested that, and that you made a scene at the table and made us leave early.

I'm terribly disappointed and how the day ended and how you left me we are living in a double standard relationship where you can be mad about how I deal with stuff when you are very quick to act cold and offish when we're unhappy.

Every five seconds I hear how you dated another chick.

You really have dated a lot of people, yet you get upset if I mentioned one funny story with a long term boyfriend.

I do everything to make you happy and to not say anything to rock the boat with you.

You do everything to throw tantrums in front of people.

I have been upset by you for two days now.

I'm so upset.

I left Darren's party early, so upset.

I can't get that day back.

I'm scared of you sometimes and how you snap at me and how you will react to me.

You make me happy ninety percent of the time, and I think we are amazing together.

But I am not some other bitch you may know trying to kill your vibe.

I am the girl who let go with you even when I was scared out of my mind too.

I'm the girl who fell in love with you and wanted to tell you this weekend.

But I'm also the girl that gets sidestepped when you are in a ship mood.

When I feel you think you have me, so why try anymore?

I get snapped at and told my accents and voices are annoying.

I touch your neck to show you I care.

You tell me to stop stop chewing gum, do this, don't do that.

You don't want to hear stuff.

You cut me off, your endorsements, your reputation, your impression of something innocent, blown out of proportion, and fucked up a special day for me.

I'm sorry if you truly felt I was hitting on my friend Sam's husband, and I'm sorry that you think that little of me.

From the outside, it looks like we are a struggle, and maybe that's what we are.

I just want to love and be loved, be happy, and make someone happy so happy.

Maybe we can't do that for each other, because right now I know you aren't happy, and I am certainly very unhappy and sad.

Oscar replied, I want to talk to you.

I want to sort this out.

I don't want to have anything less than amazing for you, and I I'm sorry for the things I say without thinking, and for taking offense to some of your actions.

The fact that I'm tired and sick isn't an excuse I'm sorry.

I wanted to go, but I was hungry and upset, and although you knew it, it wasn't like you came to chat to me when I left the table.

I was upset when I left you because I thought you were coming to me.

I'm sorry I asked you to stop touching my neck yesterday.

I know you were just trying to show me love.

I had a mad headache and should have just spoken to you softly.

I'm sorry.

I think that's a really interesting exchange.

To me, it shows Reva was definitely more mature, Like it's a really long message to send over text, But the way she worded things I thought was very in a mature way.

And I was it mature or was she trying to evade his wrath?

She was careful in her words not to blame him outright.

Yeah, she was making, you know, kind of making excuses.

I know you didn't feel well, and.

Yeah, I thought she was just trying to have a more of a civil conversation about it and you know, raise something up that was obviously bothering her and try to do it in a respectful way.

But he didn't know.

His reply was sort of, oh, I'm sorry, but I you know, I had a headache or I was hungry, so he was kind of making excuses.

After Reva's death, prosecutors would return to this exchange repeatedly.

They argued that the messages showed a woman who was increasingly unhappy and potentially preparing to leave the relationship, and as domestic violence experts often note, women are statistically at greatest risk when they attempt to end a relationship.

Do you know how long this was into their relationship?

It was only two to three months, I think, I mean they only dated for three and a half months total before she was killed.

I was thinking of his previos.

And this was I think two weeks before she was shot.

Prosecutors highlighted one line in particular, I'm scared of you sometimes and how you snap at me.

At the same time, they acknowledged an an important counterpoint.

Outside of exchanges like this one, the overwhelming majority of Oscar and Riva's text messages were affectionate, playful, loving, and warm.

Like many relationships, theres existed in contradictions, and those contradictions would soon be examined under the harshest possible light.

Even though the vast majority of their text messages were positive and affectionate.

I think something like this only two to three months into their relationships such a red flag.

I mean, two to three months, you're still in that honeymoon phase.

But the fact that they're already having serious issues where he's saying, you're flirting with another man at a party and getting upset with her about things like that, that's not a good sign.

No, it is definitely a huge red flag.

We'll be back after a break.

While Oscar was dating Reva, he became involved in two separate controversies, neither directly related to their relationship, that he fought desperately to keep out of the public eye.

The first centered on Quinton Vanderberg, the wealthy businessman Oscar believed had crossed a line with his former girlfriend, Samantha Taylor.

If you recall when Oscar was at the Paralympic Games in the summer of twenty twelve, she went to Dubai with this Quinton Vanderberg.

In her mind, she and Oscar were broken up.

In his mind, she was cheating on him.

That's right.

Back in October, while Oscar and Samantha were making one final attempt to repair their relationship, Oscar encountered Vanderberg at a racetrack, words were exchanged.

Oscar later downplayed the confrontation, saying he merely told Vanderberg that he didn't respect what he had done taking his girlfriend on a trip while Oscar was away competing.

Other witnesses, though, described something far more volatile.

According to those accounts, Oscar was shouting and issuing threats, at one point, allegedly telling Vanderberg he would break his legs.

Vanderbergh was a dangerous person to threaten.

He was connected to men with reputations that were at best unsettling.

One was a man named Mark Bachelor, a former professional soccer player.

Years later, in twenty nineteen, Bachelor would be murdered, shot multiple times through the windshield of his car in what appeared to be a professional hit.

Another associate was Mikey Schultz, a security guard, former boxer, and self confessed hit man.

In December, Oscar was assaulted at a nightclub in Johannesburg and required stitches to the back of his head.

While he never publicly identified his attacker, many assumed it was Bachelor, Schultz, or someone connected to them.

When a journalist later learned of the incident and contacted Oscar for comment.

Pistorius was frantic.

Please don't write this, he pleaded, it could ruin me.

The reporter held the story it wouldn't be published until after Riva's death.

Well, that is crazy that the journalists would hold the story for Oscar.

Yeah.

I think that wasn't the only example of that happening.

I think people really he had this golden boy image.

Nobody wanted to tarnish it.

That's dangerous for sure.

The second incident in January involved Oscar's relationship with firearms.

He was dining at an upscale restaurant with friends when one of them mentioned he had recently purchased a new glock pistol.

Oscar asked to see it.

Knowing that Oscar was experienced with guns.

The friend passed it to him under the table, explicitly warning him that it was loaded.

Moments later, the gun discharged.

A bullet struck the floor and ricocheted through the restaurant.

Miraculously, no one was seriously injured.

Oscar immediately shifted into damage control mode.

He asked the friend if he would take responsibility and say that he had been holding the gun when it went off.

In order to shield Oscar from negative publicity.

The friend agreed.

Taken individually, each incident might have seemed isolated, but together they pained a troubling picture.

A man under pressure, increasingly volatile, reckless with weapons, and terrified of what public scrutiny might reveal.

And all of it was unfolding just weeks before Valentine's Day twenty five thirteen.

On February seventh, twenty thirteen, just a week before Valentine's Day, Oscar Pastorius met with his agent to review the commercial opportunities that were flooding in after his Olympic appearance.

The mood was celebratory.

His agent was practically giddy.

You're going to make stupid money, he told Oscar, stupid money.

Together they reviewed and signed a stack of endorsement contracts.

Some were extensions of existing deals with Nike, Oakley Sunglasses, and Oser, the maker of Oscar's Cheetah blades.

Another deal from an unnamed US based company was even larger, worth nearly three times what Nike was paying him.

Oscar's earning power had never been higher.

During the meeting, he spoke casually to his agent about his personal life.

He told him that He and Riva were planning trips later that year to Italy and Rioji Janeiro.

He said they were both excited.

It sounded like the future was opening up.

But one week later, Riva Steamcamp would be dead.

Oscar Pastorius would lose every sponsorship he had just signed and would go on to spend his entire fortune on legal fees.

In the space of seven days, the life that he had been building vanished.

What happened in the early hours of February fourteenth, twenty thirteen ultimately depends on whether you believe Oscar Pistorius's account or the version later advanced by prosecutors.

What is undisputed is this, just after three a m Oscar fired four shots through a closed door leading into a small toilet room part of a larger bathroom in his home at the Silverwoods Estate.

Three of the bullets struck Reva steam Camp.

One hit her hip, shattering the bone, another struck her arm, a third entered her head.

The ammunition Oscar used was hollow point or dumb dumb bullets, designed to expand on impact rather than pass through a body.

The effect was catastrophic, making Reva's injuries far more severe.

After the shooting, Oscar broke through the locked bathroom door with a cricket bat Inside, he found Riva collapsed on the floor, her body crumpled, her face resting against the toilet.

At three nineteen am, Oscar called his neighbor and friend, Johann Stander, who also managed the Silverwoods estate.

The call lasted just twenty four seconds.

Johan, please please come to my house, Oscar cried.

I shot Reva.

I thought she was an intruder.

Please please, please come quick.

Oscar then called emergency services and alerted a state security He lifted Riva's body and carried her out of the bathroom down the marble staircase toward the main floor.

About halfway down the stairs, a security guard arrived.

Moments later, Johann Stander entered the house with his adult daughter.

Oscar laid Riva on a rug in the sitting room near the front door.

Oscar, Stander and his daughter tried desperately to stop the bleeding with towels, It was already hopeless.

Shortly after, a doctor named Johann Stip arrived.

Stip lived roughly one hundred yards away and had been awakened by the guns when he asked what had happened.

Oscar sobbed I shot her.

I thought she was a burglar.

I shot her.

Stip performed a brief examination.

It was immediately clear to him that Riva could not be saved.

At three p forty three am, an ambulance arrived.

Riva Steinkamp was pronounced dead at the scene.

Overcome with grief, Oscar went upstairs and called his friend Justin, the man who had introduced him to Riva just three and a half months earlier.

There has been a terrible accident, Oscar said, I shot Riva.

I shot Riva.

It was an accident.

Justin asked how badly she was hurt.

I've killed her.

Oscar cried, I've killed my baba.

God take me away.

Police soon arrived.

Hilton Botha, the lead detective, took control of the crime scene and ordered extensive photographs of the house, the bathroom, and of Oscar himself.

Still wearing blood soaked basketball shorts, Oscar was transported to a hospital for evaluation.

Investigators collected samples from under his fingernails, examined his body for scratches or bruises, and tested his blood in urine.

The results showed no signs of a struggle, no alcohol, no drugs.

From there, Oscar was taken to a nearby police station, where he was met by his attorney, who instructed police that his client would not be answering questions.

Oscar Pastorius spent that night in a jail cell, sleeping on a blanket laid over a concrete floor.

The next morning, he appeared before a magistrate and was formally charged with premeditated murder.

A bail hearing was scheduled for Tuesday, February nineteenth.

The story of what happened inside that house and why was only beginning.

You said that Oscar called his friend Johann first and then called emergency services.

Why did he not call emergency services first?

I don't know.

It's a good question.

I know the friend that he called was a neighbor that was very close and he also managed the gated community, so.

It could be that medical professional.

No, he wasn't a medical professional.

But I think in South Africa, when you live in like a gated community like that, a lot of the security, the services are provided within the community.

So he may have just thought the guy that he called was the manager of the community, so he may have thought I'm going to call him first.

I don't know though, It's just speculation.

Although Oscar's full explanation of what he's had happened that night would not be formally presented until his bail hearing, let's cover that now.

According to Pastorius, the evening began quietly around ten pm.

He and Riva were preparing for bad.

Reva was doing yoga in the bedroom while Oscar lay in bed watching television, his prosthetic legs already removed for the night.

Once Reva finished her yoga, she joined him in bad.

Oscar said they fell asleep quickly.

In the early hours of the morning.

Oscar claimed he woke up and remembered that he had left two fans outside in the balcony.

He disliked sleeping with air conditioning on, saying it interfered with his breathing, so we often used fans to pull fresh air into the room.

He got up on his stumps, went on to the balcony, moved the fans, and closed the sliding door.

Back inside the bedroom, he draped a pair of jeans over the stereo to block its led lights.

He said he was extremely sensitive to light when trying to sleep.

The bedroom, he said, was now pitch black.

At that point, Oscar claimed he heard a noise coming from the bathroom down the hall.

He said he heard the bathroom window slide open, a window he knew was prone to squeaking, followed by a movement inside the bathroom.

He described an immediate surge of terror.

There were no burglar bars on the bathroom window, and Oscar knew that contractors who had been working on the house had left ladders outside.

He said his fear of intruders and violet crime ran deep rooted in both his upbringing and his mother's own anxieties about home invasions.

Oscar said he grabbed his nine millimeters pistol from beneath his bed.

Still on his stumps and still in complete darkness, he left the bedroom and told Reva, whom he believed was still in bed, to phone the police.

As he moved down the hallway, he shouted at the unseen presence in the bathroom, get out, get out of my fucking house.

Approaching the bathroom cautiously, Oscar said he saw that the window was indeed open, confirming in his mind that someone had broken in the door to the small toilet cubicle inside the bathroom was closed, and he assumed the intruder had taken refuge there.

From the hallway, he fired four shots through the closed door.

He then retreated back towards the bedroom.

It was only then Oscar said that he realized Reva was not in bed, and only then, he claimed, did it slowly begin to dawn on him what had happened.

We will, of course, examine Oscar's story in detail when we get to the trial.

But what is your first reaction to hearing his explanation of what happened?

I mean, I remember hearing when this happened, and I don't think I ever quite believed his story.

What do you think.

I'm in a little different situation because I've done the entire research, and I've learned what happened in the trial and everything like that.

So I don't want to give too much of an opinion, but I agree.

The first time I heard the story, I thought that seems really unlikely, right.

It was widely known that Oscar Pistorius lived in fear of crime.

He resided in Silverwoods Estate, a high security complex surrounded by electrified twelve foot perimeter walls standard for affluent neighborhoods in South Africa.

The estate was protected by surveillance cameras, underground motion sensors that could summon armed response teams, and an exhaustive entry process.

Residents had to scan their fingerprints to gain access.

Visitors were required to present identification and be cleared before entry.

Uniformed guards patrolled constantly.

Even by those standards, Oscar went further.

He installed his own home alarm system.

He kept a gun under his bed, both a cricket bat and a baseball bat behind his bedroom door.

He carried a firearm almost everywhere.

When driving, he often believed that he was being followed at night.

He parked only in welded areas.

In restaurants, he checked exits and insisted on sitting with his back to the wall.

If he heard an unexpected noise, a car back firing, a sudden bang, he was known to reach instinctively for his gun.

Oscar also struggled to sleep.

He would lie awake for hours listening for sounds.

On one occasion, he heard what he believed was an intruder, grabbed his firearm and rushed out to confront them, only to discover it was a friend staying overnight up getting a glass of water.

On another occasion, while watching a movie at a friend's house, he dozed off.

The sound of gunfire in the film jolded him awake, and he bolted from the room in a panic.

Oscar's fear, while extreme, did not exist in a vacuum.

In twenty thirteen, South Africa ranked among the most violent countries in the world ever drink roughly forty five murders a day.

For many sous South Africans, constant vigilance was not paranoia.

It was survival.

Home invasions, burglaries, and smash and grab robberies were routine.

The private security industry reflected that reality.

More than four hundred thousand people were employed in private security, more than double the number of official police officers nationwide.

Prime in South Africa was deeply tied to its economic and social divides.

The majority of South Africans live in poverty and inequality.

Against that backdrop, many South Africans found it easier to believe Oscar's claim that he had fired in panic, mistaking his girlfriend for an intruder.

But there was another reality that could not be ignored.

South Africa was the global epicenter of violence against women.

At the time, statistics showed that a woman or girl was raped approximately every three minutes Holy Cow, and that a woman was killed by her male partner every eight hours.

Less than two weeks before Reva's death, the country had been shaken by the brutal rape and murder of a nin Boyson, a seventeen year old girl who was gang raped, mutilated, and left to die at a construction site near a bar where she'd been socializing with friends.

The case sparked nationwide outrage.

In one of her final tweets, Reva responded to a nin Boyson's death, I woke up in a happy, safe home this morning.

Not everyone did speak out against the rape of individuals.

When the news broke of Reva's killing, South Africa split among familiar lines.

For some, Oscar's story sounded tragically plausible.

For many others, it sounded like something else entirely, and it was within that deeply divided context fear of crime on one side, endemic violence against women on the other, that the case would be judged We'll be back after a break.

Police statements in the days after the shooting helped to shape and in some ways distort the public narrative.

At the close of an early press conference, a police spokesperson dropped a tantalizing detail.

She said that officers had previously been called to Oscar's home.

When pressed, she declined to elaborate, saying only that the calls involved allegations of a domestic nature.

The implication was obvious.

Many people came away believing that police had responded to earlier incidents of fighting or abuse between Oscar and Reva, but that wasn't true.

The only prior incident that police were referring to was the two thousand and nine case that we talked about in Part one, in which a woman accused Oscar of assault at a party years before he had even met Reva.

Whatever one believes about that incident, it was a far cry from what the police statement suggested.

In hindsight, it appeared less like clarification and more like implication, language that subtly encouraged the public to draw its own conclusions.

Police also announced that they had discovered steroids and testosterone in Oscar's bedroom, along with needles.

The suggestion was unmistakable, a volatile athlete, possibly fueled by drugs, overcome by rage, But that claim too, would later unravel Under oath, the detective responsible admitted that what had been found was not steroids or testosterone at all, but a legal over the counter herbal supplement.

The initial statement had been wrong, but by then the damage was done.

As the days passed, public opinion increasingly turned against Pistorius, especially as previously suppressed stories like the restaurant's shooting began to surface.

Still, he was not without supporters.

A former girlfriend, Jenna Edkins, posted publicly, I would just like to say I have dated Oscar on and off for five years.

Not once has he ever lifted a finger to me or made me fear for my life.

Unlike the O.

J.

Simpson case in the United States, public reaction in South Africa did not split cleanly along racial lines.

Both the accused and the victim were white, removing the most obvious racial dimension.

Still patterns emerged.

Many white South Africans appeared more skeptical of Oscar's account, while many black South Africans were more sympathetic.

His loss of his mother at age fifteen resonated deeply with people who saw that grief as central to who he was, while Oscar's guilt or innocence would ultimately be decided in court.

The marketplace rendered its verdict almost immediately.

Within twenty four hours, advertisers began cutting ties.

Billboards featuring Oscar's image were taken down across the country, including a Nike advertisement bearing the unfortunate tagline I am the bullet in the chamber before a single witness testified, Oscar Pistorius's public life had already collapsed, and the trial, still weeks away, had begun.

In the court of public opinion, Oscar's family did him no favors in the weeks following Reva Steinkamp's death.

The day after the shooting, Oscar's father, Henka Pistorius, spoke to the press.

Hanka, if you remember, had been largely absent from Oscar's life since divorcing Sheila years earlier, but now he stepped into the spotlight.

Rather than expressing sympathy for Riva's family or restraint in the face of an unfolding investigation, Hanka placed blame elsewhere.

He criticized the ruling African National Congress, the party of Nelson Mandela, arguing that its failure to protect white South Africans from crime had forced people like himself and Oscar to arm themselves.

The remarks carried clear racist undertones, They sparked immediate backlash and widespread outrage, and they embarrassed Oscar at a moment when public sympathy was already eroding.

Then just weeks later, another damaging story emerged.

It became public that Oscar's older brother, Karl Pistorius, had been involved in a fatal incident five years earlier.

Karl had struck a motorcycle with his car, killing the woman who was riding it.

At the time, authorities had ruled it an accident and dropped the charges, but now, in the wake of Riva's death, the state reopened the case.

Carl was charged with culpable homicide and went on trial at the end of March.

Ultimately, the magistrate ruled in his favor, concluding that the death had been accidental, and Karl walked free, But the damage was already done to many observers.

The revelation reinforced a growing narrative that Oscar Pistorius came from a family surrounded by controversy and tragedy, fair or not, It further darkened the public's view of him as he awaited his own day in court.

And by this point almost every new headline seemed to make his situation worse.

Oscar Pistorius spent five nights in jail awaiting his bail hearing.

During that time, he barely ate and complained of constant headaches.

When the hearing began, Oscar's legal team submitted his sworn affidavit, his detailed written account of what he claimed had happened the night that Riva was killed.

Legal observers were struck by how granular the statement was from a defense perspective.

Some felt that it revealed too much too early, locking Oscar into a version of events before the state had even fully presented its case.

The state's position at the bail hearing quickly began to unravel.

The lead detective Hilton Botha, took the stand, but his testimony did more damage than help.

Under cross examination, Oscar's defense team exposed a series of serious missteps.

Botha had mishandled the crime scene, lost track of ammunition found inside the house, and failed to wear protective gear while moving through key areas of the home.

He was also confronted over his earlier public claim that testosterone and steroids had been found in Oscar's bedroom and assertion he was forced to concede was false.

What had actually been discovered was a legal herbal supplement.

Then came the most damaging revelation of all.

It emerged that Botha himself was facing seven counts of attempted murder.

The charges stemmed from an incident two years earlier in which he had opened fire on a van carrying multiple passengers.

Botha claimed he believed the vehicle was attempting to ram him while fleeing.

Although the charges had initially been dropped, they were reinstated around the time of Riva's death.

The optics were disastrous.

Shortly after the bail hearing, Botha was removed from the case and forced to resign from the police service.

That is just crazy to me that the lead detective in this case was accused of attempted murder of seven people.

There is a lot of speculation that people wanted him removed from the case because the incident had happened two years earlier, But people wanted him removed from the case because he wasn't a very good like He had made mistakes and they were easy to kind of point those out, And so the speculation was that this case was brought back up precisely to get him removed from the Pastoria's case.

Well, the Pastorious case is so high profile, you want your best people, Yeah, with no shady backgrounds on it, right.

Yeah.

There are a lot of parallels to like the oj Simpson case, you know, with Mark Furman and a lot of things coming up from his past.

So you know, a good defense is always going to find something and point those things out too.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

In the end, the magistrate ruled that Oscar Pistorius would be granted bail.

He was required to post one million Rand roughly sixty thousand US dollars, and surrender his passport at all firearms.

He was also barred from returning to his home.

Instead, he moved in with his uncle, Arnold Pistorius.

When bail was granted, Oscar broke down in tears of relief.

Public reaction was swift and furious.

Many South Africans saw the decision as a textbook case of rich boys justice.

At that time, an estimated forty six thousand people were sitting in jail awaiting trials, many accused of far lesser crimes than the murder charge that Oscar faced.

For them, bail was a luxury they would never be offered, and as Oscar Pastorius walked free, the divide between his legal fortunes and public opinion only widened by most measures.

Oscar Pistorius was living in extraordinary comfort as he awaited trial.

His uncle, Arnold, was a wealthy businessman who lived in a sprawling mansion in watercloof Ridge, one of the most exclusive neighborhoods in Pretoria.

The property was heavily fortified, A moat surrounded the grounds, and armed security guards were stationed there around the clock.

Inside the house featured a private movie theater, a swimming pool, a fully equipped gym, and a full staff on hand to meet any need.

Oscar rarely left the estate in the year leading up to his trial.

Twelve days after Reva was killed, Oscar held a small memorial service on the grounds of his uncle's home.

About twenty people attended, mostly Oscar's family members and a handful of mutual friends who had remained loyal to him.

Although the service itself was private, Oscar's public relations firm alerted the media in advance.

That decision drew immediate criticism, with many observers concluding the memorial was less about mourning Reva and more about managing Oscar's image.

So she had a funeral with her friends and family.

Yeah, which I'm sure was attended by far more.

People than But Oscar didn't attend.

No, he did not.

He probably was not invited.

No.

Oscar's uncle, Arnold, also reached out directly to Riva's mother, June Stemcamp, to ask whether she would be open to speaking with Oscar personally.

Her response was unequivocal.

I've got nothing to say to you, and I don't want to hear anything that you've got to say.

Arnold apologized and ended the call.

Did Reva's family know Oscar?

They hadn't been together that long.

Had they met him and spent time with him?

I don't believe they actually met him until the trial.

Inside Arnold's house, Oscar's emotional state deteriorated.

Surrounded by luxury, he nonetheless seemed to retreat into himself.

Family members later said he regressed emotionally, almost reverting to childhood.

He required constant supervision and reassurance, attention largely provided by his aunt, a cousin, and his younger sister Amy.

Those closest to him were deeply concerned about his mental health, there was a persistent fear that Oscar might take his own life.

Arnold shared a statistic with the family that roughly twenty percent of people who killed a loved one, regardless of circumstance, later died by suicide.

He urged them to watch Oscar closely, to monitor his moods, and to remind him again and again that his life still had purpose.

Publicly, Oscar Pastorius was seen as a man living in comfort, insulated from consequences.

Privately, those around him feared that they were watching someone come undone.

Do you know before Reva's death, did Oscar plan on participating in another Olympics, Not par Olympics, but yeah.

The actual Olympic games.

I don't know for sure.

I would speculate that, yes, he probably was planning on it.

He was still, you know, twenty six years old.

Yeah, the next Olympics would be in a couple lot.

Of runners don't peak until their thirties, that's true, right.

I think you're right.

Yeah, So I'm sure he probably planned on it, but I don't know for sure.

I think we are going to end part two here for now, but I do have a few questions for you.

We talked about Oscar's fear of crime.

Do you think that his fear of crime made sense given South Africa's situation.

We also talked about South Africa being, you know, one of the leading countries in terms of violent crime burglary.

President of South Africa must be fearful of personal crime all the time.

Yeah, although in Oscar's case, he lived in a very wealthy neighborhood.

They had armed security guards everywhere, bars over the windows and all of that.

So we didn't talk about that when you were reading that, but wow, that was a lot high security.

Yeah, so it seems like that would if you know, it's hard to put yourself in the situation, but it feels like if you lived in that situation, you would feel as secure as you possibly could.

But I think he is upbringing and just you know, living in South Africa probably just raises your level of anxiety.

Well, did he view himself as a target because of his celebrity status.

I think he did a little bit.

I think he you know, one of the things we mentioned is when he would be driving, he would think people were following him, and I think a lot of that was probably due to his celebrity status.

Or when he would go to restaurants, he would be really paranoid.

So I'm sure it had something to do with that too.

You probably don't know this, but the neighborhood that he lived in sounds super secure.

Were there any incidents of anyone ever, you know, getting in and causing you know, any robberies or.

Yeah, I don't.

I don't know that.

I mean, I would suspect with the amount of security there that the answer is no, But I don't know for sure.

We talked about the relationship between Oscar and Reva, so they had only been going out for three and a half months before she was killed.

We read these text messages, but do you think I know, it's hard, it's impossible to say for sure, but do you think that Reva would have probably left Oscar at some point in the near term, just based on that text exchange that she was feeling like he was being kind of controlling, he was being jealous when he shouldn't have been jealous.

She seemed like a very confident woman, and you know, I'd like to think that she she would have left.

Yeah, that's what I think too, because she seemed like very like you said, very confident.

Very poised, sure of herself.

So I would think that's not something she would put up with for that.

And that's implying that if a woman stays that, she's not confident and poised.

And you know, women have a lot of different reasons for staying in relationships.

And she was probably you know, a nurturer and a caregiver, and she wanted to protect Oscar and yeah, you know, love him and show him that he was worthy of someone's love and he didn't need to be insecure.

Yeah, that's a really good point.

We talked about some firearms related incidents that Oscar had previously.

The one in the restaurant is the one that stands out or friend gave him a gun in a restaurant to show him and it went off in a crowded restaurant, which is terrifying.

There were other incidents as well, like the one time Oscar woke up in the night, heard something came out with his gun and a friend is getting a glass of water.

So to me, it's pretty clear that he was pretty reckless when it came to guns.

He was twenty five twenty six at this time.

This is something I think about all the time because we're old.

We're old old, and you change so much between the time that you're in your twenties, you know, really make a lot of bad, rash decisions.

Yeah, your thirties, you're still a little dumb, you know.

By the time you get to your forties and beyond, I feel like, you know, you learn how to think before responding.

And when we tell these stories, I think it's really important to remember.

If you know, Oscar is a young man in his twenties.

He has this celebrity status and he's been through some really hard things, but he still has this a sense of entitlement that bad things aren't going to happen to him, and you know, the same roles don't apply to him, right, So I think it's just really important to remember that.

Yeah, I think that's really true.

And I think also just in South Africa, you know, there was a there was a culture of you know, carrying guns with you everywhere because of this fear of crime and things like that.

So I think just the combination of those things.

Being a reckless, you know, twenty something guy who's dumb and makes dumb decisions, also being in this environment, also his upbringing, all these things combined just to make a really you know, bad, bad recipe for something bad to happen eventually.

I had a history professor once that talked about young men, and I've never forgotten what he when he talked about revolutions and wars and those things.

Other times are started by, you know, young angry men in their twenties.

You know, that's the angriest person in the world, is you know, a young man in his twenties?

True?

Last thing I want to ask you about.

Pretty much everyone knows something about this case already.

It's obviously a famous case, even if you didn't follow it closely.

But based on what you've learned through these first two parts of the episode, is there anything that has stood out to you that surprised you that you didn't know about, or that has kind of changed the way you're thinking about this case.

I think you did a good job highlighting the intrinsic fear that Oscar has because of his disability, but also just you know, being raised in South Africa, there was a certain sense of you know, vulnerability and fear that he had instilled in him.

Yeah, and I'm trying, I'm trying hard not to make excuses for him or make it sound like I'm making excuses, But I think it really is important to to understand the whole context of his upbringing and his disability and the country he lived in.

Something that I can't get beyond.

And I don't want to put the curt before the horse before we get to the trial.

But if you heard a noise in the middle of the night, you wouldn't grab We don't have a gun in our home, but you would turn to me and say, honey, did you hear that was there?

Did you hear a sound?

You wouldn't just, you know, jump out of bed right away.

You would check with me, and you know, you'd put your hand on me or something.

You would make sure I was there.

That I don't you think?

Yeah?

Absolutely.

And the fact that it seems like it was a rash reaction.

Yeah, I think if it happened the way he is saying it happened, I think he just panicked, like he had the moment of panic.

Wasn't thinking.

But yes, I think I would definitely check to make sure you were there and before I did anything.

Now, remind me, he lives in a house in this development.

It's not like an apartment yeah, I thought I remember hearing that neighbors recalled them arguing.

We will talk about that in part three.

Gotcha be sure to.

Come back for Part three, where we will talk about the trial and everything that has come after.

During one of our breaks in recording, I learned that some of our listeners apparently play a Love Mary Killed drinking game.

Yeah.

Every time I say something stupid, they drink and they're so intoxicated by the end.

These do not drink and drive if you're playing the Love Mary Kill.

No, don't do that.

Our partner in crime, Lisa, send us a note and she said that she had in her Love Mary Killed drinking game.

She had to remove the prompt by all accounts, because she would be dead if she drank every time we set.

I think you say that more than I do.

Well, I don't know.

I was going to ask you, what do you think are the things that are most likely to get people really drunk if they're playing the Love Mary Kill drinking in like a whole phrase could be anything, a phrase.

We've talked about this before, but I make fun of you a lot off air when you're like for sure.

Every time I say for sure, I'm like oh my god, why did I say that again?

Because you're a valley girl at heart, for sure, I say absolutely a lot.

I know we have been told we say horrible a lot, which I nailed.

That back intentionally.

We both give one horrible an episode.

Sometimes sometimes I can't help myself I say it.

I mean more often.

There's just not a lot of words that work better than horrible.

Rights it's a good word.

I was recently listening to another podcast and I noticed that they said the word like a lot, but you know in that way that you say when you're like yeah, and it was like hard to listen to.

And now that you can, you can go into a script and you can highlight how many times they said it, and I don't know what it was.

It was like four hundred and thirty two times.

Yeah, Which is a horrible disservice to podcasters that that exists for a lot of reasons, because I really do feel like some podcasters you can just copy and past someone's podcast, put it into a chatbot, and say, reproduce another script, which I'm not sure if anyone.

I feel like people do that, not us, but I think other people are doing that.

But anyway, I went into one of our scripts and to see how many times we said like and it was it was a lot more than I expected, more than one who hosts the podcast would like, that's for sure.

But there's different, you know, ways to say like that.

I think I like you.

That's okay to say that too.

But I like you just the way you are.

But we do say it more than you would probably think.

I try hard not to do the o's and ums, and they come through I say wow a lot.

Yeah, they don't know what to say, and it's just I'm.

Going to start saying full body chills.

Yeah, oh that's me, don't No.

I was just thinking about that because that which pot that's morbid that they say.

That talking calling out on it.

It's a very very very popular podcast.

No, it's actually good that they have a thing like that.

I feel like we don't really have a you.

Know, for the record, I have maybe gotten full body chills once, so I'm not sure what they're doing over there.

But yeah, I mean I get emotional a lot.

But one thing that people might have on their drinking game that I think we don't actually say is talking about someone lighting up a room.

Because I think that even that is such a cliche that we really actually avoid that as well.

I think if you listen to maybe I don't know, Dateline or other podcasts, you might hear that one a lot.

M that's true.

I do try to avoid that.

But Lisa's comment made me laugh.

It was very funny, and we are all for making fun of us, absolutely for sure.

Absolutely.

So the funniest thing happened the other day and I didn't get a picture, and I'm so mad because I had my camera at the ready and you walked out of the room.

It was the Bears were playing and you I have a Bear sweatshirt.

Oh yeah, foot on my Bears sweatshirt is a little, a little funny joke, and I'm so mad that I don't have proof of that.

So it's you to never ever or deny that that you had on a Bear switch.

I can't confirm or deny it, but what I can say is it will probably never happen again.

So you missed your.

Super Bowl and they're playing against.

I don't want to be a pessimist, but I don't think the Bears are going to make the super Bowl, and I really don't care, and actually I can't talk about football anymore because you said I can't talk for fifteen seconds.

Second, Well, we haven't signed the contract twenty twenty six.

What would you put in your end of the contract.

Well, I also fully concur with you on the no vegetables claws for the snacks, so we're on the same page on that one.

No problem there.

I would like a shoulder and neck massage before and after each.

Recording, standing right behind you.

So maybe Keith is made of cardboard.

He is unable to do that, So that would really help, you know, get rid of the tension in my neck and shoulders sitting in these chairs for a long time.

Well, I really didn't expect you to come with any demands, so I need to work.

On my demands right.

Thank you all so much for hanging out with us today.

If you'd like to listen to part three of this episode now, join us on Patreon dot com slash Love Mary Kill.

We have one tier five dollars a month, and you get early access to multi part episodes along with a monthly bonus episode.

Please rate, review, follow and subscribe, find us on social media, or send us an email at Lovemary Kill at gmail dot com, and also look for us on YouTube, the little channel that could.

Until next time, don't kill your wife and don't kill your husband.

Yah