Hello, listeners, this is George.

I'm reporting to you live from a closet in my bedroom in a fire Island house, and I just had to get on Mike to say that between this episode and next episode, there will be four live shows.

We're going to Philly, DC, Boston, and Toronto and they are literally all about to sell out.

I am seeing two more tickets in Philly, twelve more tickets in Boston.

I don't have the other numbers in front of me, but I promise they are dire and we would love to see all of you there.

We would love to sell these shows out.

We've been having such a good time on tour and we can't wait to see you.

So if you want to buy tickets, please go to linktree dot com, slash straight Up Lab and again.

In the next week, we're going to Philly, DC, Boston, and Toronto.

See you soon and enjoy the episode.

Podcast starts now.

What is up everyone around the globe?

You are listening to Stradio Lab and I am readjusting as I speak.

Wow.

Wow, how's it going over there, Chica?

Oh my god, it's amazing to be back in Los Angeles, California.

I want to say Something amazing about this month is that we are on tour and constantly traveling to cities together and then going to separate cities to record our podcast.

So we are constantly quite literally constantly in planes, trains, venues together, and then we say, okay, time to do the thing where we have a conversation.

Let's make it as inconvenient for everyone as possible by going to opposite coasts and having a sort of kind of tangled web of cables, iPads and cameras on two different studios, and then also ignoring a guest that is sitting next to us in one of the two cities.

It's been very, very complex, of course, to be doing this, and you know, speaking of what an amazing point, George, please come see us on tour where we will be in the same room actually, which is so groundbreaking.

The same room and often on the same stage, but not the whole time, because I have to say, you know, we should maybe very briefly check in after our first show.

This is the first time we've ever done a stand up show together.

This is not pretty much we're against podcasting as an art form and we're only doing it for the money, which is a lot and so when so now when we're going live, we're not even doing a slide show.

It's we're going back to basics.

Well, actually, I'm in it.

I have never fetishized stand up more in my life.

I'm glad.

I mean, I have to be honest to the listeners.

And you said, should we do a side show?

And I said, I really think we need to set the audience up to be ready for us to be as raw and real as possible.

If we give them a slide show up top, they're going to be expecting bells and whistles throughout.

I also want to say, you know, people forget doing a slideshow.

Used to be.

Really looked down upon, Like if you were like if you were a comic, like at the cellar or whatever, and you saw someone do a slide show, you'd be like, what the fuck is this?

Like this, you are literally taking a shortcut.

And I used to feel that way as well, because of course I came up in Boss, then one of the most traditional scenes you can come up in, and then of course I went to Brooklyn and something.

People doing characters, wigs, costumes, slide shows, videos, even reading tweets out loud.

It was at some point no longer a bad thing to do.

But I'm saying we're going back to twenty twelve.

I think the edgy thing now is to have your notebook on stage.

Well, one hundred percent.

I think it's edgy to be like, God, it's just fucking me and my thoughts.

Yeah, and so that's really really what we're doing.

At one point, just to be clear for anyone wondering what to expect on the story, at one point we were both on stage with individual notebooks.

So we're having a conversation while looking at our notebooks.

And when I tell you, people were laughing the whole time.

Sorry.

Would they have been laughing if I didn't have my notebook?

I don't know.

Maybe I would have cracked under the pressure.

I'm not sure.

I do also want to say, do we want to talk about the incident here?

Oh?

Well, I do want to bring in our guests?

Okay, do you want to of course, sort of introduce the incident and then bring in our guest.

So we had an amazing incident where as many people know, we are a trusted news source.

To some we actually did post a video with the wrong information about our show, and then reposted it as many times as we possibly could, so we said it all start time.

Yes, we said the show started eight, and in fact it started at seven fifteen.

And so what happened was some people actually went off of the information in the video and not on the website where they bought the tickets, which not to victim blame is an insane thing to do.

But of course obviously we take full accountability while also blaming the other people.

And it's sometimes you can do that.

Sometimes it can can be both.

You can make accountability and also be like.

Guys, come on, yeah, it's like, I'm sorry that you're weird.

Like, I think that's sort of wary.

The way that you made your plans on your calendar is by replaying the video and being like, what time did they say?

Instead of looking at the email said what time the shows?

And again I take full accountability, and it was literally my and I specifically, it's not Sam.

I put it there because I actually confused it with a different show I had in New York, and I put eight pm there.

But I'm assuming people have media literacy and are going to fact check.

Eight pm is a placeholder for time.

It's showtime time to start at showtime.

By the way, you know what is in a showtime?

And I say this with all my love toward Chicago Venue seven fifteen, seven to fifteen.

See, I think that's such a good point.

If I see the words show starts at teun fifteen, I read that and I say they mean eight.

Yeah, like they mean eight, And that's like it says like a rve at like seven point thirty, right, So that's how I would read that.

So just to repeat, we do take full accountability.

It's just not our fault.

But also the show was sort of at eight in the sense that it ended up starting at seven thirty.

Yeah, so that was pretty crazy.

I do think we need to bring in our guest.

I think that's an amazing idea.

Now our guest.

You know, this is sort of an og This is someone we had on in a very early like pandemic Zoom episode that is actually illegal to re listen to because we can't ever know what our behavior and our even our political views were like at the time.

But we are so excited at hav him back in studio in the most amazing sort of try for iPad based format, iPad based recording format, Please give it up for Josh Gondleman.

Thank you so much for having me here.

It's such a pleasure to return to be in person of the George and to gaze upon you Sam on an iPad.

We're watching like your dead, and you've left us a message to like low to proceed with your estate.

There's even something about my outfit today.

It's giving like I'm trying to look clean for the video, but not like too formal to imply death like I was happy.

Are you wearing a would you call that a butter yellow polo?

I'm getting nods in the studio that it is in fact butter yellow.

And as you made the nods, you were so confused when when.

Asked, you know, colors are tough for me.

Really you don't think color should also be foods.

I don't think color should be foods.

First of all, let's start here.

I'm colored deficient.

You know this, so shades?

I actually didn't know that you didn't know this?

Have you been redended with Matt about this?

No, we get I'm red, green, color defficient.

Okay, it doesn't affect much, but the certain shades I never trust that I know what shade something is Oh, that's sorry.

I'm actually having a really difficult time processing the fact that I didn't know that, despite the fact that I've probably spoken to you more than any other person on this planet.

Well, I can see colors.

I can see a lot of colors.

Well, thank so You're not like a dog.

I'm not a dog or a baby or color color color blind at all, but certain shades.

I don't trust myself.

So if I were to tell you what color is your shirt without having heard me already correctly say it's butter yellow, what would your mind go to?

I would have said yellow?

Okay, Okay, that's what I mean.

Like I would have rounded up.

Like it's when people try to get too specific with it where I'm like, well, I'm not I don't know about all this butter and yellow.

If I were to tell you is if dark yellow or light yellow?

Would you be able to say light yellow?

Yeah?

Okay?

So, Josh, I want to say something, which is the day that we the day that we started the process of booking on this podcast, I said, can't wait to have Josh Shawn he's promoting any special Like, I'm so excited to help out a fellow friend and of course Boston comedian.

I said, you know, he's going to need all the help he can get.

Then I turned on the television and Gail King is interviewing, and so what's the deal with that?

If I had known that it would have been a conflict, I would have told her now like Gail, sorry, we can't.

Talk her going to space sponsored by Amazon.

I just her, but others I don't think she'd have gone, including the real astronom.

I actually agree.

I think if it had just been Gail, it would not have been that controversial.

I think Katie Perry singing really kept it was.

She's singing what a wonderful world.

Yes, and she also brought a daisy with her favorite flower in the name of her daughter.

And she debuted the set list of her tour.

Yeah, she just held it up out the window.

Literally.

Yes, anybody from another planet wants to come see me on tour.

She's like, I need the ticket sales are not good, y'all, Like I need if any Martians or Aliens are out there, I will be at an Arizona on August fifteenth.

Josh, why were you being interviewed by Gail?

They brought me on to talk about the special, which was very funny.

Gail backstage was extremely lovely and very engaged, but she kept asking me which of the jokes were true.

She could be like, this joke loved it, Is that true?

And I was like, and she'd be like, I like this one.

Is that one true?

And I'd be like, huh, go like and then she said, this was so funny.

And I don't know if she says this to every guest or just me.

She goes, she came over to talk to me in the middle of the taping before my segment, and they're they're kind of pulling, Yeah, we gotta get you back back to set, and she's going, okay, okay, and then she goes, Josh, you think he's what you're being here.

We're having this would be so fun.

We're having a great show.

Don't fuck it up?

Really?

Yeah?

Oh wow, Yeah, it's fun.

I could tell she has some edge, which I love.

That always makes me feel that might be the Boston and she.

Did that also because you're a comedian, I feel I think that's yeah, she probably does that to no offense all comedians.

All comedians.

No serious, Yeah, no, she's not doing that, although that would be honestly really funny.

If Gail, well, I have to.

My question is how Paul inspired is that?

Like?

Was she like, oh, I'm going to start doing that.

Right right right, because that's part of the show.

It's not the show, not for go king.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And she also said I believe gentlemen start your engines and made the woman win.

That's that correct.

And I was like, I don't see a chance.

Who were the other guests the day you were on?

There was an I don't remember because you're never like together.

I didn't even meet them.

One was like an author of a romance novel.

Okay, yeah, And I like, really they kept me on for like another digital only segment where I was just really I was just shouting like, uh, unionize the robots and like all sorts.

Of like how Bezos was listening?

I hope, So get Gail, get the message across.

Get it yehace guy.

Where any of your jokes?

Alie?

Yeah?

I changed, Like was she right like about any of them?

I changed the nickname.

She wasn't saying.

She wasn't like growing me.

She was like, this isn't true, is it you?

She's like, I was there.

I was at the airport two weeks ago.

The play took off on time, nobody said anything weird over the speakers.

She asked me about one story where the it was about somebody that I know, and I said, I changed their nickname so that it's not so that it wouldn't be as identifiable.

And she said, what was the real nickname?

And I told them, and it's kind of like a gross I can't say because I can't identify the term, but it's kind of a gross sexual thing.

And she goes, I don't know what that means.

And I said, Gail King, I will not tell you what that means.

I will send you an Urban Dictionary link later.

And then she was like, oh, that's glad, he'll tell me.

I did.

Unfortunately, early on in my comedy career have to explain to my parents what Eiffel towering was because I used to have a joke that like referenced that in passed here.

So that was amazing.

It is so funny too, because at that point they've already not thought the joke was funny because they didn't get their reference.

And now you're like, well, I have to explain the joke and like a sexual thing that I don't want to break this news to you.

Yeah, I just look that sound.

I was like, all right, your turn.

It's like I'm just wondering, like, did they just like not have a phrase for it back then or Eiffel towering?

Yeah?

Were they just not doing it when my parents were like a back to the future, we had to go back in time and explain Effel tower.

Really, I love the idea that the issue is that the term is new.

Yeah, it's like, you know, it's sort of like like riz or something like we always have a word for cool or charm.

Oh, you know, so they had something it was something old timy from when they would have an Eiffel tower.

Right where they would call it like a two gentlemen salute.

Yeah, exactly exactly.

The idea of Eiffel towering in that term is misogynistic in the specifically like two thousands kind of ways.

It feels like when we were growing up and people were just because I feel towering, that's a real phenomenon.

Yeah, people have sex at one time, sure, but like there was so much stuff.

That they would just be like, oh, it's like a donkey punch.

She was like, yes, the sweet Chin music and you're like, that's a sex thing.

Yeah.

Yeah, we were trying to gamify it in a way that I think everyone was like obviously with all projection, but I hated that era of like coming up with things and then retroactively trying to make them make sense.

Like basically they were like, this is a funny two words, and then they were like and it's when you pull on someone's hair and underwater and eating a skittle a wet barber.

I actually would go so far as to say naming sexual positions is a very straight thing, like the idea of like, what's you like reverse cowgirl, cowgirl doggy?

I don't do you feel sam like gay?

Even like even gay sex terms, Like the idea of scissoring is like a fantasy that straight men came up with, regardless of whether it's done or not, which which you know, it is, like the idea it's like a guy was like scissoring, like they're like scissors.

Totally totally.

I find it complicated because you do need a phrase like a quick way to be like I think it'd be easier if you were on all fours and I was behind you, But like I don't want to say.

Yeah, I guess that Kama Sutra is ueer like.

I just think the word like doggy as like we need to we need we need your parents phrases for these things.

I think my parents phrases though.

No, yeah, doggie to me is Jennet, that's a classic.

Yay.

That one's old school.

Yeah, No, doggie is like nineties doggie is like that's probably a joke and like the wedding singer.

Okay, well then we need a new word for dog gy.

I just think it's, first of all, it de eroticizes sex so much, like to say something like a reverse cowgirl.

Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't know we were doing like live style.

Yeah, right, exactly, you're herding cattle here, and.

Then it's like I'm a horse.

Yeah.

See, I almost disagree.

I think the issue is it's not like clinical enough.

I want to be like, go.

To two C like chess.

You wanted to feel like chess?

Yeah, because I want to just be like, okay, now we're doing Star four A and then everyone knows.

But don't you think that's to use your term sex nerd coded sex nerd is when people are nerds about sex.

I've heard from them about it.

It is they talked about it.

Yeah, one of the worst terms.

I mean, it could be sex nerd.

The thing with a sex nerd.

I think to the full theory on sex nerd, it's it's not just that they're a nerd about sex, is that they're like are like, there's a gleefulness in talking about sex in a scientific, clinical way.

I also think sex nerds everything is play.

To a sex nerd, they wouldn't do two C star six five, yeah, because there would everything would have a term that's like taking something sexy and making it unseexy.

Yeah, it would be like we're doing puppy bear play.

Yeah, totally, And they'd say it.

They'd say the silly thing with the clinical voice.

They'd be like, would you be interested in doing puppy bear play?

Like, yeah, totally, and like that's where it gets gross.

That's where it gets sex nerd.

Oh, that's such a funny diagnosis of the clinical voice and the whisical thing.

Well, god, no, it's absolutely Well.

It's literally like Google calendar alert for play seven to eight pm and then we're watching billions.

I'm okay, I'm sorry to be gross.

Can I be gross for a second.

I mean one time this guy was like, are you a cocksucker?

And I was like, what do you mean?

Like like like he knows I'm we're gay guys.

We're talking and he's like, oh, oh, are you a cocksucker?

And it's like, you mean in the normal way, like and it was so.

An identity I'm not I'm not familiar.

A sex identity that it's like, oh no, I actually consider myself a cock soker, and like sort of what I do as I go into these spaces and I suck call And I was like, yeah, but that's everybody to an extent, Like I sort of like why limit yourself?

Like why not just dream?

Like go into a space and be like what will this space provide me?

Okay, I know I have an improviser's sensibility with a lot of things.

No, this is this is you're actually so right.

And this is literally a symptom of like grinder culture.

It is a symptom of like what do Here's what I'm offering, here's what you can offer, Let's make it work.

Oh that doesn't match.

I'm going to the next person.

Like none of the you know, in old fashioned cruising, there was a joy de vive.

You would like sort of like see what you could get and like make the most of it.

And it feels like there are people who are interested in different things at different times, but like that one feels so standard.

That's it's almost like he was like, hey, do you fuck?

Yeah?

Are you interested in sexual intercourse?

I guess I think that's I thought that was the whole thing we were doing.

Here, right.

It's also it also so then almost like what's the word makes uh makes complicated something that's very routine.

So it'll be like I'm actually into first making out, then doing for play, and then potentially penetration.

You're like, right, so what they would do in like a movie, like what they would do like in a sort of like standard porn.

Are you right?

You they've gone so far around with like codifying sex.

Yea, that they've reinvented.

First base, right, literally, maybe we could start with cuddling.

It's like, yeah, I was planning on doing that.

Do you have people to just go zero to eighty men?

Yeah?

Yeah, well well yes to answer, well.

Yes, no they do, they're doing it.

That's fair.

Well, that was weird.

I'm glad we talked about that.

I guess.

It's sort of like the intimacy coordinatorification of.

All whoa, whoa, that's so good.

That's really good.

I mean, and of course it's a slippery slope.

I don't want to be against intimacy coordinators, but you know, take a plunge.

Be more like the cast of Anora on the side.

Exactly exactly, yes, I yeah.

It's also it like makes you have like the identification of like cocksucker, then makes people who are normal right out like who just suck dick?

It's like, oh, well you don't count And I was like, well it still counts.

It's like, no you have.

It's like where's your degree?

Like there was something like I hate it whatever, like a merit bagification.

Yeah, exactly wow.

And it also cuts off future possibilities, right if it's identity based, it's like, actually, anything could happen.

You don't know what I'm going to be like in five years.

Could I could be happily married to a woman with three kids?

In five years I would be interested in participating in put Bear play with you.

Yeah, I'm going to be married to a woman three kids.

But I'm also gonna be like I actually identify as a cockshucker.

Let's get it on the calendar.

Calendar.

Huh huh.

I'm really having trouble transitioning out of this line of thinking.

Your first segment, that's such a good idea, Josh.

As you know, our first segment is called straight Shooters, and in this segment, we gauge your familiarity with in complicity and straight culture by asking you a series of rapid fire questions where you have to choose one thing or another thing.

And the one rule is you can't ask any follow up questions about how the game works.

I would never ask a question as a straight man.

I would never ask.

Oh, it's sometimes even worse if you do it as a lesbian.

Okay, let's see Josh peanut butter and jelly or being utterly smelly.

Wait, am I I.

Whoa taint?

No butter and jelly?

Okay, Josh, Betty Davis eyes or shiny Gammi eyes.

Betty Davis eyes, Okay, Carrie, Carrie Bradshop or Harry Back Sure.

Carry Bradshop for sure.

I've never been more confident of anything in my life.

Okay, progressive politics or ingested olive pits ingested all of pits.

Shopping at a restoration hardware or watching an adaptation of Jane Air.

Oh oh it's a draw, Yeah for sure.

Okay, cross your t's and dot your eyes or std slash STIs.

I'm crossing in dotton, breaking your wordle streak or shaking because you're meek?

Oh breaking wordles streak?

Okay?

The bling ring or the sting sing.

Sting sing, I guess I guess sting sing?

Oh like the artists sting the artist.

Okay, I was a picture of your capitol last.

Night I was.

I was like, is this a phrase I haven't heard of?

Also, the sting sing is such a fascinating way to phrase that.

It's playing with parts of speech in a really interesting way.

It's like, it's not the sting song or sing Sing's the sting sing sing?

Okay, which pect sense to me?

That's the movie where Sting Uh It's it was shot in a prison, correct Common Domingo plays Sting.

Colemon Domingo plays Sting and the rest of the actors are actually all former inmates, and it's about Sting's relationship with Trudy.

And I think not only is it good, it's important and the security guards are played by the other members of the police.

Yeah, and it's actually a shame it wasn't nominated Frostcars.

And it actually really points to a dark future for film, cinema and politics, speaking of which a man made disaster or a film by ari astor ariastor period period.

Sam, do you have one more?

No, that's all of mine.

Did I do five by accident?

I think you did five by accident.

Sorry, don't apologize.

I mean, I'm gonna be honest.

It's because we had that.

That doesn't matter.

We had written more for the next episode.

I just kept going.

So anyway, Josh, we rank each guest performance on a scale of zero to one thousand doves.

It is named after the Lady Gaga song one thousand Doves, which is not a big hit.

It just on one of our albums.

But people have yelled at us for calling it a B side.

I must say, oh, is that true?

Yeah, someone was in our comments saying stop saying one thousand dosar is a B side.

It's an album track.

It's not a B side.

Okay, I'm sorry.

First of all, calling something a B side doesn't mean it's literally a B side.

This is in the nineteen seventies.

It means it's like not a single and it's sort of like a secondary track.

Which I agree, is this is not a motown?

Yes on a forty five, right exactly, Like, no, I know it's not literally a B side.

No, I agree.

It felt crazy.

So they're like they're saying, like the sanctity of B side versus deep cut is like very right, exactly.

I guess it is a deep I guess it is a deep cut.

We can call it, we can call it a B side.

I'm actually not going to be bullied insion.

I don't think you should know yourself people.

Yeah, okay, so go ahead, Sam Well.

And then I was gonna say, and I think we should call somethings EPs they're too short.

I agree, I do agree with that.

Ye.

Sometimes if it's too short, you can't count it as an LP, right, even if they define it as like their album.

I'm like, that's really yeah.

So would you call it the Pink Panthers album and EP?

Yeah?

I would.

It's it's a great EP, of course, come on, it's what twenty two minutes?

Come on?

Yeah, what are we doing here?

Yeah?

This is a British song stress that we like and do you know are you aware of her?

Yeah?

Yeah, okay, wow, that was actually very sort of like heterophobic what I just did, like immediately started Yeah, I don't know.

I'm like, oh, sweetie, like I can explain.

So what would what score would you give?

Josh?

Well, the questions were honestly offensive, considering.

Well there was only one question.

One questions all it takes.

That's true dually, But said that, do you know her the podcaster?

Yes?

Yeah, and letter writer and investigative journalist.

She has a book club.

Yeah yeah, she has the book club.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, So I think, you know, asking a question was downright offensive, and but I do think you had such a joy while playing doing the segment.

There was such a sense of play that this was in my calendar.

That's right.

Yeah.

Literally, I'm going to go ahead and say eight hundred and twenty dubs.

And I have to agree I would say something interesting.

You know when you did ask a question, Yeah, and I tried to cut you off, you actually kept asking the question in a way that I found very interest I because you know the I think you could tell that the bit is like we yell at your question.

But you really kept go.

You're like, no, I have a question, and it's rare that I it's rare that you're sort of like, you know, for lack of a better term, toxic mexiculinity comes out.

You're famously, you know, a nice guy.

That's what the trades tell me constantly every single day.

And so it was fascinating how you were like, this is where I draw the line.

I need to know the rules.

Well, I get very disoriented.

You don't know the rules, and I was just like, you know what, I think.

I just am going with my heart.

It also is like speaking of you know, comedy rules and purists stand up and whatever.

I think the way people react to the game is a signifier of like their approach to comedy.

And I am like you where I need to know the rules and I'm like great, So the way the good comedy works, you work within certain rules and you push just far enough that something is surprising.

Right, but it's not like to me and this gay I when I realized what was happening, I was like, oh, okay, those are the rules exactly, and it was like, yeah, but I do When someone is like, oh, it could be anything, I'm like well, it's gonna be the one thing I came planning to do that.

Josh is the nice guy thing ever gets suffocating for you?

Are you real like I'm bad too?

My wife put that in her wedding.

Vats really is also not nice, And that's the funnest when he just is like an asshole the people, and I'm like, yeah, I guess I do, but it is I think it's nice to have any reputation at all.

That's true.

That's an interesting point, and it's a sort it's a branding exercise for you.

You're saying, it's.

Nice that people seem to get what I'm about generally, even if hens the nuance.

Do you worry about sort of the Ellen effect, the Falon and the Falon effect, you know, the nicer you are publicly, the mean or you're gonna get behind the scenes.

I don't think Falon's issues that he's mean, but but.

Go ahead, I don't.

I do worry that because people, because I have a certain reputation, if I'm like a little prickly, yes, it will come off much harsher than like.

There are certain people I imagine who we all know.

I'm not thinking of anyone specific, but who can walk into a room and be like, hey, give me that fucking coffee and everyone's like, oh, thank god he didn't hit me today or whatever.

Totally, Hi, we all think you the same person.

No, I actually think that because I'm such a sh or I spent my twenties being such a huge bitch.

People really take it.

Seriously when I like something like when I'm like I really enjoyed this movie, yeah, people like wow, George, like they're discerning.

Yeah, well, I mean, I'm thank you for saying that, and I think my best.

Maybe I am, but also like, I've just spent so much of my again twenties just like being thinking that it was a kind of intelligence to constantly hate everything.

Sure, and so people and I people started prefacing things with like you'll probably hate this, but blah blah blah, or like, you know, I want to see this movie.

Do you like, would you ever do that?

Dane?

To do that?

This is pretty stupid, But do you guys want to get dinners this next?

Yeah?

Totally totally exactly, Josh.

When was the last time you were like a huge bitch to somebody?

Oh?

Man, it comes out when I traveled too, where I'll just like and my big problem is because I'm from Massachusetts, I think I'm like making a big show of my feelings, and even people close to me will be I'll go like, God, I was so mad, I like really blew up in the person.

Like that is not how anyone perceived that.

Totally.

Yeah, they will think you just inhaled sharply and then were polite.

I mean, I will say there is uh, okay, I'm gonna anonymize this.

There is one person in comedy that everyone hates.

And one time someone told me someone was like, even Josh doesn't like that.

WHOA.

I wish I could know who it is.

So when you're thinking of okay, okay, cool anyway, so.

Josh, sorry, As one more thing, uh huh do you ever okay?

Meta?

Meta?

Are you ever like?

Okay?

Why does everyone keep asking me about nice guy persona?

Like do you get asked that all the time?

And you're sick of this?

Like in interviews pretty regularly?

And I don't, I like, I truly, I like, I don't mind that people think that about me, but it does like I do have the opposite thing of you, where if I'm like if I make fun of something gently.

Some would be like, wow, you really hate that?

Yeah, yeah, I thought we could like make fun of stuff because we're community.

Yeah, we're having a conversation.

Yeah, and I'm being charming.

That's right, I'm I'm being I'm having a good time.

Yeah, but thank you for asking.

I will never forget.

You know what really stuck with me Sam when we had oughts to go on and she was like when I she was like, when I do comedy, I talk about things I like, not things I dislike.

And I was like what.

I was like, excuse me, that is not what we're here to do.

Like I was just like, that's your guiding principle.

Really like shifted something within me.

I was like, that's an interesting challenge.

Yeah, it is, and it's harder, I think in general, Yeah, to get over with that because it's so people are so used to comedy.

That's like someone's like that glass of water that fucking sucks, and everyone's like, yeah, it does, even if.

It's totally totally totally it also, and it pains me to admit this because I love reading like a negative review.

I love reading a pan like I love reading like a negative book review or something However, it simply must be said that it is actually more difficult to write a positive assessment sure than a negative.

And I will also say you can write a negative review about almost anything, even if it's great, Like there are so many great things that you can find one little thread to like pull the whole thing apart.

And and it's so much harder to build up a positive review and like make the case other.

Than just being like, oh, it's good exactly because actually, like you sound kind of dumb when you like something.

Yeah, so you have to really really add to it to actually make the positive opinion like worthwhile in any way totally.

Well, it's also hard to make something positive feel larger, like you are kind of reaching when you're like, well, they're commenting on our state of overly like stimulated, and it's like, I think you just kind of liked the beat, Like I think it like has an interesting like texture to it.

Yeah, Like it's not always like needing this grand meaning.

And I think people sound stupid when they're trying to praise something because they're trying to make it seem more important than it is.

Yeah, And it's also like, okay, when you're praising something for succeeding and what it's set out to do, you are simply restating what it's set out to do.

Yeah.

So, if the movie is like a commentary on our information age, and then your review is like it succeeds it being a commentary on our information age, Actually I could have just watched the movie and told you that, right.

Whereas if it.

Fails and you're explaining why it failed, you in fact are adding something to the conversation.

Right, it's explained why it succeeded, you're just like it succeeded because it did it.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, damn, that's so true.

But also what you're saying about like picking small things that make something sound bad, It's like I used to think that was so badass, and I'm now like when I read a book review and it's like intentionally choosing lines that like look stupid, I'm like, Okay, what was the context?

Yeah, it's like I don't know.

Show me a picture of one of my balls and I'll be like, yea, I guess I look like an idiot made one ball.

Josh, have you seen his one ball that is not a full pay You took one ball out of context?

In the Mariner's Apartment complex.

Thank you for that.

Thank Wow.

Should we get into our topic.

I do want to go back to ball at some point because I actually think that's genius.

It's like literally a review of a person and being like, but what about look at it's just one ball.

That long toenail.

Yeah, and more than my one long total.

Right right?

But you know what, some people are actually defined by the one long toenail, which is it?

And that's actually the discernment you have to have as a critic.

Okay, It's like you, a good critic won't pick the one ball to criticize you.

They will actually pick something negative about you that is like emblematic or your larger by larger failure.

Right right, absolutely, And that's that's my back totally.

Yeah.

And I was gonna say it.

Like weirdly sweat sweaty get different amounts in different parts of the back.

Now, that's that's criticism, which mine wouldn't be.

Well.

I actually thought it was interesting that you brought up like the one weird toenail because I was looking at my feet recently and I was like, I'm so glad the beauty standards are about face face you know, body hair and not like feet.

If we lead with our feet and people were like looking at your feet, I would be like the ugliest person on earth.

Unfortunately, Yeah, I say it to silence.

I'm sorry.

I was trying to like, I was trying to remember, like I've been in beach environments with you, I've never I actually I do.

I'm someone who would notice like they're crazy never feet.

Okay, there's standard feet.

There's standard feet.

There's just like there's no like beauty to them.

And I think some people actually do have some beauty in there, and mine are like, yeah, that looks like that foot almost doesn't match my my, my whole vibe.

It's sort of like whose foot is that?

I see what you're saying.

Well, you know, I famously have an insecurity about having small feet for my body.

Really, so yes, I have one more thing about just like focusing on on a little thing because it is fun, right, It is fun, and you do feel smart, and it can be very funny to be like this thing that you like, this one thing is stupid and everyone's.

Like, yeah, I don't know.

I still thought, like whatever is a pretty good movie.

Mm hmm.

I know it's Actually, I've been thinking about this because this is going to be Data Bay.

It's time it comes out.

But have you been keeping up with the assessment of the Tiny Desk concert of Edward Sharp and the Magnetic Zero Oh my god, God talking about I did.

I saw one tweet about it, and now it's all like coming into focus, everyful mind, everywhere for me, Like it's so funny for whatever you close your eyes, it's all you see.

Yes, And I've it's everywhere for me as well.

And actually I was talking to Matthew and I was like, oh God, is this everyhere for you?

And he was like, I have no idea what you're talking about.

And it made me feel crazy, much like I'm feeling now that you said you saw it once, because it's truly, for like three days has been my entire feet.

I mean, what are people saying I heard it?

I don't like get.

Yeah, it's just like I think.

Okay.

So there's this clip of Edward Tarp and the Magnetic Zeros performing the song home, you know, the one that's like I Love Maama Arkansas, I do love Mama and Pa that one, and it just is like obviously like emblematic of like that era of hipstery.

You know what, I'm thinking of A second thing I saw about it, Okay, but a second Oh it was just about someone assessing whether like stomp clap hayyah is an actual genre.

Yeah.

So it's resulted in all this like very stupid theorizing about that era.

But it's fascinating when something like that.

In fact, I actually do think this is a one ball situation where they're like taking one thing and trying to expand on, like all alt rock in the twenty tens.

Yeah, and actually there was some good.

Alt rock in the twenties where you're it's you're thinking of three bands, right, Yeah, I think of Edward Char Magnetic Zeros, You're thinking of Mumfort and thinking of the Luminears.

Yes, exactly.

And I think people are taking their anger out on mumforted Suns and the Lumineers out on ed reichup of the magnet Zeros.

Oh you think so, I do.

I think I think there is a bit of a one ball situation happening.

I think is where I stand on is where I stand on this.

So you would say between those three, you would you prefer Edward Sharp and Magnetic zeros.

I would say, because I remember this all happening and I was like, like that first one, I was like okay, sure, like you know, I'm not like running to buy ticks, but I'm like whatever, this is kind of a fun song.

And then it's like then it gets Mumford and Sons of Fide, and I remember being like what I like And that's when I was like, Okay, well now it's becoming like like radio hit in a way that I'm like, well, it wasn't supposed to be, and if it was, it was supposed to be on accident.

So you're saying, there's the rise of Edward Sharp was more authentic and organic.

Yeah, that is kind of what I'm saying.

Whereas Mumford is like married to Carry Mulligan.

Yeah, it was.

It was very on purpose and like what is trending and what can we make a profit on.

I don't think they did themselves any favors with like the dust bawl cosplay.

That they were all doing.

I mean that's you can play a banjo and wear regular get totally.

Yeah.

Well they're also I do think the main guy is his name actually Edward Sharper.

Is that like a band name doesn't matter, No.

One beats me.

But the name.

His real name is bright Eyes.

That's interesting.

His real name is two Yards, I believe.

And I think that like he had he like literally had a cult leader type thing going.

Like I think literally there were like followers.

I didn't know that.

And something that I find disturbing about that video is not really the music.

It's the way that like there's sort of evil in his eyes and then the girl who then later they broke up honestly looks like someone in the documentary about a cult that is like looking lovingly at the leader.

Sure, and you know, maybe I'm projecting, but that, to me is what's more sort of disturbing about that video rather than the rather than the what's going on?

Alex Eber is his name?

Oh thank you to our fact checkers.

Where were you when we posted that video about the Chicago show?

Wait, I have a one ball situation?

Okay, go, I hope you know that you have now coined a framework that we're gonna be using for years.

To Honestly, this is so flattering to me.

All I ever want is to going new phrase it.

No literally one ball criticism is like is a big idea.

Like I'm like, I'm going to for a while.

What is your one ball example?

Wait, I actually have the wrong name.

Oh my god, oh my god.

The you'll know, you'll know the name of the moment I do it.

Yeah.

No, the politician, the politicians, that's it.

That's one moment.

That's such a one ball situation.

Is such a one ball situation.

You're absolutely right.

This is God if only we could incept this idea into Malcolm Gladwell's mind.

Yeah, I would three books deep on this.

Wow, this is.

I mean, who who is the politician that was like in New York that was like good for the working class, but then he had a sex scndal Elliot Spitzer.

Yes, yeah, I would say that was a literal one ball situation.

Simultaneous one ball situation on both situations.

Yeah, yes, Now I'm desperate to think of more.

Also, half the time when I see like individual sentences pulled out of a book, fifty percent of the time at least, I.

Go, I don't know that seems nice.

I agree, I don't.

It's like, okay, sorry that they used them similarly, Like that happens in literature.

Something like sometimes.

Stuff feels like the feeling of it is more important than it, like tracking super literally, especially when you're talking like poetry or like lyrical fiction.

Yeah, if you're writing a nonfiction book, that's like how some explaining how tax deriva you know, stock derivatives work, and you're using metaphors that are confused, like, I don't know, there's no like that.

It doesn't matter how beautiful it.

Is, Yeah, yeah, yeah, No for on Earth where briefly stalks.

Yeah, that's like I am thinking of Ocean Bar where people like pulling out like look at his stupid sentence.

I'm like, I don't, I think that's kind of nice.

Well.

O Shamok is a classic example where I truly have fallen for the one ball theory of Ocean Loong because I've never read his work, but I have it so in my head as like the poster child of like corny tender queer, you know, tweet little a little tumblry tumblry poetry infused prose, and that's a and I who knows, maybe if I actually went back and read On Earth were briefly gorgeous, I would actually enjoy it in context.

Even the reviews of the New book and the Andreelling QE for a New York magazine specifically, like was like, I like the new book.

Now here's seven thousand words the first one, and I was like, damn, she had that in the chamber she did, you know?

And yet Andrew long Cho when she came on this podcast, was waxing poetic about the MCU.

So I would love to have her back on and question her about which art property she supports and which one she does.

We got to get her take on one book.

Oh my god, I actually would love Andrea.

Okay, this is we're gonna profit off of this.

Basically, it's gonna be the worst.

I need Andrea on one ball criticism now.

Okay, wow, Soosh, you brought a few topics for us today dead Actually, I would love it if you could read the list since since you have it on here, and then we will talk about the one we chose.

Okay, I had so one of them you did before the last one Game Night, which you've done before.

I came in prepared to talk about Christmas cards where someone is holding a gun, editorial cartoons where dead celebrities meet in heaven to pays standing desks, doing your own research and separating the art from the artists, which is potentially too juicy.

Well I think, okay, So I actually think doing your own research and separating there from the artist are at the perfect center of like gay and straight, because it just depends doing your own research.

On the one hand, like if you're quean on, it's straight, but if you're like doing stand theories about.

Totally, you know what, I hadn't lumped that in because it is the same, you know what.

The reason I didn't lump it in is because they're actually doing their own research exactly.

This the straight version of you and you're in research is being like I did no research and I just waited for Joe Rogan to pretend you did totally.

I just feel like conspiratorial thinking is one of those things that like can get anyone totally.

She liked to think we're immune to it for sure.

But Dan's oh, go go ahead, no you go.

I'm go because the like Taylor Swift conspiracy is like no one knows her, like no one's followed her, like I have I have this special knowledge.

And then the Q no on one is like we all could open her eyes.

To this right totally it's like one of them is BPD and one of them is schizophrenia.

But I actually don't know which is which.

But I also think separating the arm from the artist is can go either way in a huge way because obviously, like you know, straight people are loving Louie still and like like go off.

Actually, like we might.

Have to take this out, but I have a bomb to drop when you're opening for Louis.

When we were preparing, I like to watch and listen to stand up, especially when I'm like in a writing phase, because it just like inspires me to think in stand up terms.

I was actually I was listening to a great to a Maria Bamford album I had never listened to before.

It was so good, and I was like, and I just thought to myself, I was like, I wonder what Louise's material post cancelation has been like because I haven't kept up with him and I listened to two full albums.

Wow.

Anyway, that's all I wanted to say.

I will say this, I was surprised at how not about his cancelation they were, and how like on the same wavelength as his old world Like It's it's almost like if I guess here's what I'm trying to say.

If someone were to just listen to album after album and have never opened a newspaper or know what happened, they'd be like, that's the same artist, which is just a very strange.

It was a strange thing to see when we know so many people that have had way less dramatic cancelations and then literally made their entire vibe.

Right, that is that is just so brutal to the whole Yeah, to someone being like, look like, I know who's paying my.

Bills right exactly because there was one tweet yep, it's it's really wild, but anyway, go ahead, So separating there from the artist.

On the one hand, for straight people it's Louis As for George for me and yeah, complicating her theory, but yeah.

Well, and then for gay people there's Nicki Minaj.

I was gonna say Azelia Banks, but yeah Banks.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean talk operating the one song that no one can stop listening to from the artist.

Yeah, I mean, I mean that is your perspective.

I I didn't want to say anything.

When I do listen with an entire album start to finish action multiple times a year.

But I cannot stop listening to her no matter what.

She barely releases music and I'm always ravenous.

Here's what's so fascinating about his Zilia Banks.

Her written output all over the place, like just like politics, ranged from right wing to left wing to completely just spreading misinformation to very insight occasionally very insightful comment just like everything.

She is kind of the median voter.

Exactly exactly, she's like the undecided voter and then her but her artistic output focused always well done.

Like it's crazy, it's like two different people.

It's like she she simply should not have been born in an era where social media existed.

She should have been like an eccentric that had these crazy views in private.

Right, right, she should have been Prince yes, exactly.

I don't know what Prince's user, but I mean like he was somebody that was like doing the work and doing the work, and do the work.

It's a bummer.

And Nicki Minaj, I mean, listen, when it hits, it hits.

Talk about tuball criticism that ye.

Oh my god, she was doing two ball criticism.

She was She's like, you can't take the vaccine because both of my cousins balls, her cousin's friend or something.

Was it her cousin.

I think it was her cousin, her cousin's balls and gorged because it was cousin because of the vaccine.

So this is separated for the artists and doing your own research exactly.

Yes, she was doing her own research.

Yes, she was doing her own research.

And that's when they separated the art from the art of research, the artist from the art of her research.

No research, you guys are fact checker saying that it's actually cousin's friend, cousin's friend, cousin's friend, so.

Barely doing her own research then more so just answering a phone call from her cousin.

It was like I heard something I did my own group chat about that.

Come to some interesting cogions.

Fascinating.

Okay, So then what we landed on this two page pays.

So if you feel so comfortable, please tell us why you think she pays.

A straight two pays.

There are lots of ways to be to lose your hair.

You can just let it go.

You can comb it over, which is also pretty straight.

That's kind of like nature tepayuh, and you can wear I want to separate specifically two pays from wigs, which can be obviously very queer.

Yes, but a two pay always looks bad every single time.

It is like the straight and this is an ethos that I, as a straight man, have the straight male ethos of fucking good enough and also like doing a thing.

It is also the thing of doing a thing to impress women that women do not like or care about, which is an extreme strake.

I think just like I'm gonna have huge shoulder muscles and like today want that, Like who told you that?

And it's like another guy with big shoulder.

Muscles I think.

I think of baldness insecurity in the same vein as height insecurity.

It's like, yes, it's uh, it's did you see materialists with pedro pescal Like yes, like lengthening surgery.

It's like.

It is like it's sort of I'm trying not to say in cell culture because that's not what I mean, but it's like it's this sort of like gamifying attractiveness.

It's like look smack sing Yes, it is looks snack saying, and it's like you can just like a short, bald guy with like outrageous charisma is going to have a lot more like social fluidity and like just like grace in social situations and romantic success than like a guy with long legs totally and a full head of hair that just like has nothing going on.

Yeah, And that's why we have to separate the art from the artist with Woody Allen, because he's actually very short and very bold and you know, did really well for himself.

He really did.

I mean, I'll do a more totally.

Yeah.

I think it's also complicated because like gay men also obviously don't like they like value their hair a lot of the times, yea, And but they choose a different route, like I think they do more of the like hair loss pills or going to Turkey for like plugs.

Like there is a an I like the medical approach versus the sort of like quick fix of a two pay approach.

I find to be like an interesting difference.

I know it is what you're saying, it's the good enough ethos.

It's extremely important because you think about like the going to Turkey getting a surgery to keep your hairline thick and full and tight, and you go, yeah, that's like a commitment to an aesthetic, which is not.

A straight guy thing.

I'm like, ah, but just putting on a two pay, like going into a place putting on the two pay, looking in the mirror and going like that looks bad, but probably no one will say anything.

Abouts No exactly.

It's like extreme straight culture, you know what else it is.

It's like caring too much is actually kind of gay, like like about your appearance.

So it's already, of course humiliating to like go looking for a to pay.

I don't think any any straight guy is proud of going to pay shopping.

I think they're like ashamed of it and like one so they're like, oh god, I don't want to spend too much time on this, like just put it there and like whatever.

I just like don't have to think about it too much.

And it's it's also like I'm I'm a pretty bald guy.

I shave my head pretty tight and that is fine, and I also know many gay men that do that, and that's like a totally that's another totally fine way.

Or like you could, like in the nineties, you could do the Costanza just kind of like act like it's not happening, and even that was fine, but like to pay is the worst option.

Yeah, you know, there was a time when George Costanza went on some late night show, maybe Fallin, and was like, like, sometimes he does wear a two pay I mean sorry, I know george ism does not realertainment like a pixel scenario but with characters into the Spider of but with George Costanza.

Josh, my fantasy is that we have a sitcom with George Costanza, Cam from Modern Family and Dwight Shrew all in one house.

And kind of the ready player one for socially maladjusted man.

Oh, we're gonna have it.

We're gonna have it one day.

We are, it's gonna be So.

We're very pro Cam from Modern Family and actually think that it's one of the best, and I'm not kidding, one of the best on screen gay performances.

I don't know if you have a watch a Modern Family, Watch Modern Family, it's the fat one is who we're talking about, so not Jesse Tyler Fergus and the husband who's played by a straight man who I have heard also is like really popular with the ladies in his free time when he's not being gay.

But it's one of the most incredible on screen performances of the twenty first Century.

Yeah, we're addicted.

But Jason Alexander wore a tupe and like was like, yeah, I know everyone knows it's fake, but like, I think it's kind of fun to do sometimes.

And I was like, well, that's an interesting approach.

I like that approach.

Yeah, it's like that Griffin like doing a video about her third face lift, which she just said I was just watching.

Yeah, she was like my third facelift, and I'm here to talk about Edward Sarpatic.

I hate that George and I have the same Internet.

Well, listen, I like to support Kathy.

The end of sentence, I actually have nothing negative to say about her.

Yes, I think that, but I think that's great.

But that is such an exception of the rule because there it's today is so shame based.

Like to have the self awareness to then make a joke about it is like only Jason Alexander could.

Do that, right, and it's it either has to be so immaculately constructed at which point to me that crosses the boundary and is a wig yeah, or it has to be a bit this kind of just like slapping it on and just crossing your fingers.

That is bad news.

Yeah, I would be remiss not to mention the sort of class element here, which is that rich celebrities are getting like incredibly intricate sure plugs, plugs and hair surgery.

And those they were doing it before it was good exactly.

Yeah.

You would see.

Guys on TV and you'd be like, you think that looks better than just like keeping it tight.

Yeah, that's a banana.

I mean, you know who was doing it before it was cool, Elon Musk.

Elon Musk has incredible hair now, yeah, and there are there's fully footage of him, yes, fully bald, like twenty years ago yep.

And then looking like middle middle distance yes, yes, yes.

And I don't mean I don't mean to sound like a pick me bald guy, of course, but I do think it's like commit commit to a thing I don't have, like a like a sloppy head of hair that you're like, oh, like if it blows away to breeze, you're like ruined.

Yeah, yeah, yeah I am.

Josh.

I'm curious what your perception of the TV industry's approach to balding is currently, because I think we've tried to talk about this before where there aren't balding men on TV like there used to be.

Yes, well, I think there's a little less of it.

Like I think society has moved towards the extremes of like more bald or more hair because it's more accessible to like look to have better hair and more in vogue to not just like hang on to it like like you're with a death grip.

Yeah, but I do think you're right.

There's not a lot of balding anymore.

And it's certainly like it is one of them, like the it's so embarrassed, like Joe Biden used to be balder, right, Yeah, jo Joe Biden and Donald Trump buff have like preposterous hair situations and everyone's like, well, that's better than just like a balding guy, right.

Yeah, Yeah.

What is it about?

Is it?

I have a theory that it's like you're caught in process.

Yeah, in the process, because well, I do want to hear your theory.

Sam, Okay.

My theory is that it's their hair and makeup people trying to not get fired, and so they're like, Okay, I have to make it look like he's not balding, so that like I have shown my worth because I feel like if you're the hair and makeup person and you leave them balding even though it's natural.

They'll be like, that's not true, I'm not balding if it's just it was a lighting that was on, like and so you're like trying to save your job.

Okay, so you think that it is a it's a purely holly it's a I like that you're going into more like, uh.

It's an economic issue.

It cannot like materialist direction, Like you're like, this isn't about image making.

It's about people in precarious positions as makeup artists and hair people that are like afraid of losing their jobs.

So they're like, well, we can't we can't put him out they're bald.

And I literally think and I think it's an issue among the industry of hair and makeup people because then they'll be like, well, the hey left, Like do you see that Cheryl left him bald out there on national television and it's like, I'm not hiring her, Like I think it's it's a huge issue.

You know, speaking of Cheryl.

Actually, I want to say one of the few balding people left is Larry David.

That's right.

Here's something interesting.

People say, like Oh, it's impact like where we you know, everyone everyone I know who's bald like shaves their head and it's almost like framed.

Is this like not to call you out?

It's framed?

Is this like empowering thing?

But no one dares to have the to have the Larry David hair.

I will tell you when we recorded last probably I had I was I bet this was in the time where I had gone like ten weeks without a haircut, early pandemic, and I looked like I was trying to invent time travel, which it is, like I didn't.

I don't fill in graceful me.

It isn't bad, Like it just looks slovenly.

Maybe there's a point that I could get it to where it would like fall better or like chicken up, but it I look chaotic.

But I just think beauty standards are such that there isn't a way that is socially accepted, yes, to have like to be bald on top and not.

Yeah, like they're just you see those guys all the time?

Yeah, like every like Dad in a teen movie was that like the Larry Miller.

Look you know who the guy who is he played the doctor?

Like the ob g I n and Babes has was like a famous guy like that the I'm trying to think he was like the Brother and the Drew Carrey Show or something.

Wow, but he's there's you see it every once in a while.

But he used to be like howevery you know who actually is like that?

In the Comeback the husband Lisa Kudro's husband in the company, Oh sure, he's like he has a look you don't see anymore because it's not allowed.

If they see it, they will shoot you right in the shiny forehead.

Or it's like the only way it's allowed, as if you're playing like a pet of yeah yeah.

Yeah yeah, like a real either a creep or like a total dupists like oh I forgot to get the milk.

Yeah, it's like exactly.

That's which is when I was auditioning for commercials.

That was like always the commercial I would bring me in for like guy who doesn't know whether he has car insurance, Like, babe, do we have car insurance?

Okay?

Honestly, that was a great performance.

Yeah you booked, you do we Okay, And now we have to talk about the the I think we want to talk about the sort of gen z TikTok, yes version of the two pey that is, I've been I've seen these videos where it's like a young guy who's like hot and it's like where it like looks like it's a full head pair and he's like it's actually too pey and then you like they show you as he puts it on.

So here's what I will say about this.

In these videos, what you see is like you see the whole process and he's putting some sort of like skin Elmer's blue, and then like it it's like wrapping around exactly perfectly, and you see him showering.

It's like, wow, it stays on for like multiple days out of time, blah blah.

I quite simply think all of that is fake.

Ideally, I just like don't think.

I literally don't think anyone is actually doing that.

Like it's like it's one of those classic like fake trends.

People see it on TikTok.

Like a culture writer who's on deadline and he's written like fifteen blogs that are all about how like gen Z is not having sex anymore?

Yeah, is like, please give me something else to write about, And then you know they've been working from home, haven't left the house in fifteen days, like you know.

They they their union has been busted fifteen times last week, and they're like, fine, I'll fucking write about two.

Pay sure, like wow one of his other TikTok videos to see if he ever looks like that exactly, no, no, no, no, this has to be done in nine seconds.

Right, And then the headline is literally like gen Z gen Z says, two pays are back.

Wow.

Yeah, it's awful.

No, that's a really good point.

I wish it were real.

It looks so it's such a satisfying thing to watch.

It's a satisfying thing to watch, but doesn't it look like a nightmare to actually maintain?

And I that it's uncomfortable, of course, especially if you don't shave it down close enough and you're sticking it too paid to like you're stumble.

That's awful.

It's I think, as praccess, I kind of look like shit.

And I think that's important because I think we need more equality right across gender lines.

And I think if the two there's two options, it's that women and non binary people can also start looking like shit, or it's that men have to look good all the time and I'm not willing to see that ground.

Okay, but here's my rebuttal to you.

Aren't you just perpetuating inequality by.

Like flexing your power.

I'm not agreeing, but you don't know, but I'm going along with your with your line.

But it's like, ok, I'm like, wait a minute, that that's why you're doing this.

I just it's like, because you're saying women should still put an effort.

No no, no, no no no, I'm saying if we I'm saying it's got to go one way or the other.

Uh huh.

That's it's a binary choice.

I see.

It's that either men start dress start looking better, or or women start.

Letting women start letting women.

Of course, it's okay, so as a culture, as a culture, not just like me being like sorryos you allowing women to look worse?

Maybe it's kind of my decision.

We need beauty centers to be equal across you know what the equalized.

Totally yeah, you know, it's so said ground my I think I would support forcing men to look better better, Okay, but I don't, but not as a social justice.

You just think they should look you know, just like aesthetically, I'm like how amazing to go outside and everyone looks fat.

That's true, that's true, and I'll you know what I mean, Yes, I agree.

I think that is also a good outcome.

Like it's like the reason why I mean, it's not the main reason, but it's one of the reasons why, like airport suck because everyone looks bad.

I was going to ask, are you like a dress up to fly person?

You know, I'm I'm definitely not.

But as I get older, I'm like, okay, maybe I won't look like complete shit.

Yeah, Like I'm not gonna wear gray sweatpants.

Like I have a couple of pairs of like joggers that are made of pants regular pants material, not so my pants material.

And that to me is like a perfect airport outfit because it is comfortable, but it doesn't look like I'm like checking the mail at the end of a driveway.

Right exactly.

There's something about looking some basic level of nice that actually also from within forced you to also act a little nicer to everyone, because you're like, Okay, this is a public space.

It's not a private space.

You're not You're not walking around like skulking, like yeah, nobody I knowices me here.

Yeah, so I don't know.

I also always do, like usually want to shower when I get off the plane or whatever.

But I do want the option to be like we're just going straight to dinner.

I want the option.

Yeah, that's true.

And I don't like, like if I want to go for a walk upon arrival, I don't want people to be like, did he just get on a plane?

No, that is a good point.

I do that plane air there's something in it because I every time I get off a plane, I'm like, oh, why is my body respinding, like I just ran a marathon.

I know it's because the carbon dioxide that everyone in that plane has been exhaling is now on your Yeah, yeah, no, there's actually a layer of the of of everyone else's breath.

God, a tree would be loving.

If only I was a tree.

Oh my god.

I'm trying to think any final thoughts on two pays.

I think I want to reiterate if it takes effort and looks good, that's not what that's a way and that's beautiful, or if it's very silly, like a costume.

But I do think this kind of haphazard, like I'll never make partner with this hair exactly.

Yeah, I gotta slap something up there, and it's like it always feels the way it always looks, and you can see the seam showing.

Is like when you put on a shirt that you know is a little too wrinkled and you go, that's probably fine, yes, and then someone one friend clock's like, hey man, you did you sleep hunched over a.

Chair last night?

And ah, they fucking got me because they have eyes and they knew it.

Yeah, And that's what every dew pay looks like to me.

Yeah, there's something tragic about them.

Like it's like it is the effort is so visible that you almost want to give the person a hug.

You almost want to be like, you don't have to do this, right, Yeah, it's like, uh, I'm thinking of others.

It's like it's honestly like when you see someone who whose eyebrows are so insanely painted on, we're like, well we can all see that.

Right, right.

Do you do you think that that looks good?

Yeah?

And that's like what you like to look like.

Or do you think that we won't notice that it looks bad?

Yeah?

Yeah, Well it creates this like really complex thing where you can't say this looks bad, because that will break them.

Obviously, they will shatter.

And you also like so if you notice, you can only say like, it looks good.

So then they're not getting any realistic feedback.

It's like when someone's taking too big of a swing in general and no one can say anything, and so something like people don't learn the lesson.

They almost have to like they're on like essentially an episode of the Traders and have to like suss out if people are lying or telling the truth.

So this is.

Honestly a larger issue, and I don't know what the answer is, which is like how do we know if we're doing something wrong?

Like how do we know?

It takes such a specific like it has to be truly like your mother, who cares so much about you, telling you like, hey, that is not right, Like your closest friends will let you look insane, or like I have had nights where I have food in my teeth and I realize it when I get home, and I'm like, I was with three friends.

None of them told me yep, And you would have been receptive to that.

You wouldn't have been like, I have to leave.

But it's like we surely all of us.

Know people that do continue you know that have like one outfit that everyone's like, oh god, he's wearing that again, or like have or like wear insane, I don't know, always wear dirty, like socks that look dirty or something something, and everyone like clocks it and talks about it behind their back and no one will ever tell.

Them Yeah, yeah, yeah, what's this?

I know?

I'd literally the only solution is to have like the voting public.

So like honestly, like snap a photo of yourself before you leave and do a quick like it goes out to you know, people that work at content farms and are doing content moderation for Instagram, and it's like.

The people who are like beading video backs, it's actually gonna.

Be so refreshing for them for someone to be like does my chpealok?

Good?

And they're gonna be like sorry, but like you just got a message from Indonesia, it doesn't.

I also think what you're bringing up is an important point of Like, when you're out for the night already, what good does it do for someone to be like, well, that's the worst shirt I've ever Yes, Like you've committed to the shirt.

You're not gonna be like.

Hold on, brot a spare.

Yeah, So I do understand that.

So that I think the solution is, but you gotta you've got to send out that image before you leave.

Yeah, it's a trusted friend, a critical lot.

But I but I.

Do think it has to be like I'm literally like it has to be an audience like a yeah, like an at home audit.

The person who decides whether a movie is yeah, yeah, the double a.

Yeah.

Well, it's tough because they do need to be like credible in some way, Like we have to know that their taste is similar to our taste.

Okay, some people don't know what you're going for.

Okay, here's an idea.

Think of people who have studied the arts, have studied fashion, most of them are like underemployed.

There's no jobs in you know, magazines, media, whatever.

This could be an easy way for them to make some money on the side.

You know, these can be like fifteen dollars an hour jobs and they just like clock in and they're like looking through a carousel and outfits that people are sending.

So you get basically like a bunch of people that all went to the Fashion Institute of technology, and they're like in the beginning of their careers and a small way they can make money is by just like giving one sentence feedback on outfits.

This is an incredible idea for an app.

Thank you, I would I would subscribe to this app.

Don't you think it could work?

Yeah?

It's almost like it's like how I mean, now with AI, you don't need this.

But it's like how people used to just like do copy like copy editing for like small businesses whatever.

It's it's it should be called does this look okay?

And it's like one that's fashion right to fashion people, and then one for like rashes that goes to retired doctors.

They're still trying to it would come.

I'm thinking it's like it's like fashion therapy, because you need someone who's like I specialize in like preppy but vintage, or like I specialize in like sort of Bushwick crazy, and then you'll be like, Okay, that looks sort of like my that's like a good match for me.

And then they'd like see you and be like, Okay, here's what's wrong with you?

Or you know what they'd be they'd be like, so, what made you want to wear that?

Today.

Yeah right, it's like a combination stylist and therapist.

Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah style rapist.

Style rapist sounds pretty bad, but I.

Think the profession is honestly solid.

No, I think that it makes a lot of sense.

Yeah yeah, what are you going for with that?

Guys listening?

Yeah, so is this satire or Someone at our Chicago Live show asked me if my shoes were a commentary, which was kind.

Of Oh, that was crazy, actually, and I want to really shout them out for having the confidence to do that.

Someone said, we're now doing at our shows.

We have started doing q and as because we believe stand up comedies only our firm that doesn't allow for Q and as much like you know, like film does for instance.

And so someone asked Sam if his shoes were commentary on straight culture, which is basically like saying, like, so, are you like joking when you wear those?

That's one of the worst questions that ever heard.

Now we've done a full show where we're wearing normal out.

This is the end of the show.

This is the end of the show.

I've been wearing that, but the whole time nothing else is commentary.

Like it's I think I was dressed pretty normal.

Your we were both dressed very normal.

Yeah, because we didn't want our outfits to speak for us exactly.

We want to be able to focus on the words you both called your style pists.

Before the exactly, we were like, do we look like sort of like mid tier gay comedians.

She was like, yeah, nothing about this seems like commentary exactly.

Yeah.

I wouldn't even be that.

No.

I could barely register it honestly as an outfit.

It says nothing.

It says nothing.

Yeah, and this guy actually was turning a look I will say, so it even more because it was someone that like, you know, you would notice on the street.

D you would like to have had his right co sign front row.

Well, that's the thing.

I was like, Oh, so the whole time you've been like looking at my shoes and being like, so, what's good?

What's the story?

Instead of like because that's the last thing I wanted was people to be looking at my shoes and wondering what the story is.

No, you literally want it to be neutral looking.

And in fact, the entire time he was like, oh god, you were.

Hoping anybody who looked at your shoes and be like got it?

Yeah, exactly, exactly.

Receive well, I think we should do our final segment.

I agree, Josh.

Our final segment it's called shout outs, and in this segment we pay homage to the grand straight tradition of the radio shout out.

So imagine you're at TRL shouting out to your squad back home about anything that you like.

People place us things ideas.

George and I will go first, and we always make them up on the spot.

Okay, George, do you have one?

Yes?

Okay, kick us off.

What's up?

New York theater goers to give a shout out to Morgan Basicus's solo show Can I Be Frank?

Now playing at Soho Playhouse.

Have you seen this?

Josh?

No, It is Sam Pigleton, who directed Josh Sharp's show and Omary I.

I've known Morgan like tangentially socially for years.

I don't know them super well, and I didn't know what to expect.

I sort of didn't know how how like genuinely laugh out loud funny they were, and I went in expecting a sort of like solo show type thing where it's like, Okay, there's a couple of jokes in the beginning, but then we're gonna get serious.

And I was like so happy with how much I laughed.

There was such a it was so unexpected.

It like managed to actually like avoid any of the tropes and cliches you would expect from a show like that.

Nan Golden was in the audience.

I was having the time my damn life.

And you know, just when you think you're gonna just when you think we've had enough solo shows, people keep doing them and sometime they're good.

I mean, I will be the It pains me to admit it because you know, you want to retire that as a forum.

But then sometimes people are actually good at it and you say, all right, well, I guess we can keep doing this for another few years.

So shout out to pretty much all gay people that do solo shows.

You're just your person is recommended.

Yees me.

It's like, honestly, that's a classic thing that like someone would be like, oh you would You're a hater, like you probably wouldn't want to see an earnest And thank god I did because it was literally so it was so good amazing.

Anyway, Yeah, well that sounds to die for.

Okay, now I will go what's up?

Freak losers and perverts around the globe.

I would like to give a huge shout out to the film The Naked Gun, the New One.

I went to see it last night and I said, I'm laughing, I'm having fun.

You know.

I sort of had the opposite feeling of George where I went in being like, this is probably going to be chalk full of jokes and funny.

And guess what, my expectations were completely correct.

It was chalk full of jokes and funny.

I will say I do find the conversation around like, you know, we need to support this film as comedy needs to come back to theaters to be a little confusing, as like using almost social justice sentiment to support a like stupid movie but existing existing three stars.

Yeah, but I will say the movie is funny and I did laugh.

Liam Neeson is to die for and family Anderson is to die for.

I think you I highly recommend and have some fun and at an hour twenty five minutes, folks, you got the time.

Xoxo, Sam.

Wow, I'm saying it Thursday, can't wait?

Have you seen it?

I might also be going to the scene.

Julie, Yeah great, Yeah, what's the dogs?

It's a big dog.

Jus gone, I'm here to you.

I'm here to give a shout out.

Did not commit just bailed on that guy immediately to be very scary.

See people.

Yeah, I'm known as a nice guy like that.

Some guys could just get away with being the big dog.

True.

I'm want to give a shout out to one season and canceled Netflix mystery comedy The Residents starring zo at Uba, and it was really good and very funny.

I thought, I know, every comedy has to be ten episodes and someone gets murdered in it, and this is one of my favorites of that genre.

She she is very quirky and funny.

I would have liked to see many more seasons of her solving mysteries.

It is like a blast.

I don't I know like four people that have watched it, which is probably why there is not a season two.

Whoo.

I will say, so many people told me to watch it, and and also people did use the social justice language of like please watch this like we have and of course I didn't.

Yeah, it's like I'm sure I would like I don't know, especially with Netflix.

It's like I know, you know what I did watch all of Hunting Wives?

How is that?

You know?

It is maybe the trashiest show I've ever watched, but it's like it's like it's good.

You know, It's like I can't watched all of it.

I watched all of it, and you know what, I'm part of a large community of people because it's number one on Netflix and many people I know are watching it.

It's just like if you just succumb to it, you just get over the hump of like this is trashy and you're in heaven.

You're a you're a hunting wife guy.

Yeah, I'm a hunting wife guy.

I really was.

I all the entire time Sam and I were in Chicago was like, I can't believe I can't watch The Hunting Wife because I can't because I have to watch it with Matthew and I finished it last night and honestly, they absolutely slayed it.

There.

There's so many shows that are like like that, Like it feels like every show is like that.

And my wife Maris book I want to burn this place down?

Is that now?

Oh?

Yes, she's wonderful and brilliant and she watches all these shows like she'll I'll come home and she'll be like, I'll go, what are you watching?

And she'll be like, Sirens, and I have to which one?

Oh, I watched that too, Sirens, nine.

Perfect Strangers, the Perfect Couple.

Yeah, I watch that too.

God, it's you know, it's fine.

I think myself as someone who doesn't watch things like that, and now that you're listening, and I'm like, I actually have seen all.

Of them, and I kind of think like white Lotuses, like the Apex of One.

But there's so much of that tone now I know, and it's bad.

George, I had no idea you were watching all these shows.

Uh.

Yeah, I really have no justification for yours.

The Buccaneers.

No, I have not watched the Buccaneers.

Chris, George, you live like a double life.

Well your version of this is like playing video games.

Shut up, it's like you.

I I don't think of that part of your life when you're playing video games.

I'm watching Sirens.

Interesting, I like Sam's like, I just can't I black out whenever George talks about watching The guilded Age.

Yeah, interesting, you mentioned that one that one I don't watch, and actually Matthew has to watch it without you.

I think I struggle with Here's what I think, Here's what I I If I'm going to watch a costume drama, it like has to be good, Okay, and I know that Gilded Age is good.

Don't write in but I mean, it has to be like the Age of Innocence.

Like I just can't I can't commit to just like hours and hours of something if it's not like Scorsese left totally.

I also, I don't know if I haven't seen enough Gilded Age to know that if this is true of the show.

But anytime something is in.

The past and everyone's British in America, like, hey, why the fuck are they talking like that?

It really it takes me.

It takes me out of it, even though again love all those all those ladies.

Branski, Yeah, Carrie Coons, Nick, that's what I.

Was gonna say.

An accent next, I in my heart still the Governor never.

Was, I know.

I agree.

Thank you, well, Josh, let's say, actually what your special is all.

That's a great point.

That's a great point.

It's called positive reinforcement.

It's out on YouTube now, you can watch it whenever wherever it is.

It's a lot like this, Like it's a lot like what we just did, like.

Gail King loves it, you love it and you're gonna love it.

Thank you, thank you.

Get the rare two co signs Gail King and Stradio correct.

Wow, I know, I'm like, what else has gotten those two?

We're just you and O Mary pretty much?

What do you?

Where do you stand on Oprah?

Okay, you know it's tough.

Actually, uh, I know we have to wrap up.

But if I can say one final thing.

Someone recently asked me, you know how Leon Effect does did that Jerry Springer podcast that's like a podcast that's all about like reassessing Jerry Springer as a cultural figure.

I really think someone should do that with Oprah and and you know, in both like and take her entirely like, both positive and negative, because she has affected the culture in so many positive and insanely negative ways.

Yeah, and I would love to see someone really wrap it with that.

Yeah, that would be fascinating.

Whoever, I don't think she would push them like a bug.

I know the lawyers would be uh yeah, yeah, it has to happen after she died.

It's unfortunately I don't need but even I'm not ready for a critique of Oprah like, it's like there's.

Something she introduced us to doctor Oz and doctor Phil.

Yeah, but she couldn't control them.

Once you're in the world, she can't control them.

She also introduced like white women to the secret.

So the secrets illegal.

She literally, she literally, she literally is telling everyone to gain and lose weight every year.

It's like, this year you have to gain weight, this year you have to lose weight.

Well, she's just reflecting what we want to hear.

No, that's true.

She created opens all.

Come for me.

But also listen, she gave us Barack Obama.

And Tom Crazy marriage Holmes.

She gave us a million little pieces and then took it away.

She had that big fight with Jonathan Friends.

Then Marathon talking about that.

So it's amazing, it's so fun.

It's also Yeah, imagine being an author in a fight with the most famous reader in America.

Who chose your who wanted to choose your book?

Yeah, and by the way, imagine coming out essentially unscathed and like being respected, Like I understand that he's a punchline, but like people still love his work.

Yeah, and even many people who are like make fun of his kind of like cantankerous old timeiness and like bird Watching, like the Sentences I Know, and the Right The Corrections came out same day as Ben Folds Rocking the Suburbs album Wow, same day as jay Z's Blueprint album.

We're of course talking about September eleventh, two thousand and one.

Is that true?

I believe it is.

And Mariah Carey's glitter, Maracare's glitter of course.

Wow, Well, folks, it's not.

We managed to get to September eleventh, two thousand and one.

Josh, thank you so much for doing the podcast.

Thank you so much for having me.

It's such a pleasure to be here with you.

This was such a I hope next time I'm in the same room as you.

Yes, next time.

Next time we're going to be in the same room as Josh, and Oprah will be there to mediate to mediate.

That's right, because we've got some We've got bond.

That's my Opra impression.

It's really good.

Thank you, It's exactly what it sounds like what she says my name Yeah, okay, bye bye bye podcast and now want more, Subscribe to our Patreon for two extra episodes a month, discord access, and more by heading to Patreon dot com slash Stradio Lab.

And for all our visual earners, free full length video episodes are available on our YouTube now.

Get Back to Work Stradio Lab is a production by Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network and iHeart Podcasts.

Created and hosted by George Savers and Sam Taggart.

Executive produced by Will Ferrell, Hans Sonny and Olivia Aguilar, co produced by Bei Wang, Edited and engineered by Adam Avalos.

Artwork by Michael Failes and Matt Grugg Same music by Ben kling No