1 00:00:00,782 --> 00:00:02,604 All right, good to have you Oscar. 2 00:00:02,845 --> 00:00:04,126 Welcome aboard. 3 00:00:05,448 --> 00:00:07,150 Yeah, your place looks great. 4 00:00:07,231 --> 00:00:16,336 You guys have done lots of really great records and mastering the stuff, making it sound nice and pretty for the finished product. 5 00:00:16,336 --> 00:00:17,167 we've been lucky. 6 00:00:17,167 --> 00:00:18,395 It's been fun. 7 00:00:18,395 --> 00:00:19,760 We've been very lucky. 8 00:00:20,221 --> 00:00:21,882 Really, really good project. 9 00:00:22,892 --> 00:00:29,260 Yeah, so you're involved with like the Spotify singles and that run of... 10 00:00:29,260 --> 00:00:33,405 involved with, I would say 80 % of the Spotify singles, 90%. 11 00:00:33,405 --> 00:00:39,575 I'm not really sure how much stuff they do, but I would say most of the stuff we're fortunate to master. 12 00:00:39,575 --> 00:00:40,973 That started a couple of years ago. 13 00:00:40,973 --> 00:00:48,471 yeah, it's a nice diverse um types of music, different types of artists. 14 00:00:48,471 --> 00:00:50,143 So it's been super nice. 15 00:00:50,143 --> 00:00:50,943 Yeah. 16 00:00:51,490 --> 00:01:01,220 Yeah, I was telling you beforehand, I had William Garrett on and he was talking about recording a lot of those sessions and just the fun it was for artists to come in kind of 17 00:01:01,220 --> 00:01:10,368 fast paced, work on things, be a little experimental, play around with the songs that they already had and also I think a cover as well. 18 00:01:11,063 --> 00:01:12,944 Yes, it's changed a little bit, I think. 19 00:01:12,944 --> 00:01:23,218 Again, I'm not that involved because I'm an outside party, but the original one I was working with William was two songs, one's a cover and one's a song from the artist. 20 00:01:23,218 --> 00:01:26,540 So it was really fun to see what they chose as a cover and their version. 21 00:01:26,540 --> 00:01:34,873 And like you said, from what I understand, it was super fun in the studio, pretty relaxed um ambience and just have fun and record. 22 00:01:34,873 --> 00:01:37,038 I think it was super fun. 23 00:01:37,038 --> 00:01:38,766 And you can tell with the music, you 24 00:01:38,766 --> 00:01:39,373 Hmm. 25 00:01:39,373 --> 00:01:42,145 I would get the mixes and it's like, oh, this sounds great. 26 00:01:42,145 --> 00:01:45,406 It doesn't sound contrived or anything, so it was super fun. 27 00:01:46,604 --> 00:01:50,378 Yeah, there's something about those types of sessions. 28 00:01:50,378 --> 00:01:57,624 It's not a track that you can raise the fader on, but there's something tangible in the recording when people are having fun. 29 00:01:57,624 --> 00:01:58,154 Exactly. 30 00:01:58,154 --> 00:01:59,465 Yeah, yeah. 31 00:01:59,465 --> 00:02:01,183 Yeah, it was great. 32 00:02:01,183 --> 00:02:05,179 Yeah, it's super fun to hear interpretation of the artists. 33 00:02:05,179 --> 00:02:08,931 You would expect something from a certain artist because that's what they do in their albums. 34 00:02:08,931 --> 00:02:18,577 And then they have some creative freedom or something that came up at the studio and they came up with a cover that's just out of left field that you're like, man, this is great. 35 00:02:18,577 --> 00:02:20,938 So yeah, it's super fun. 36 00:02:20,938 --> 00:02:21,278 Yeah. 37 00:02:21,278 --> 00:02:22,679 Plus to have it. 38 00:02:23,208 --> 00:02:28,570 recorded and mixed by great engineers like William, it's almost a breeze to master. 39 00:02:28,570 --> 00:02:29,285 It's just a pleasure. 40 00:02:29,285 --> 00:02:31,797 It masters itself almost. 41 00:02:32,179 --> 00:02:33,179 Nice. 42 00:02:34,419 --> 00:02:34,979 Yeah. 43 00:02:34,979 --> 00:02:41,952 As I was saying to you before we hit record, I'd love for you to maybe just define mastering. 44 00:02:41,952 --> 00:02:54,625 Cause I think probably for a lot of people listening, this is something they hear they're supposed to do to their music and it's kind of its own art in its own, uh, world. 45 00:02:55,185 --> 00:02:55,846 Yeah. 46 00:02:55,846 --> 00:02:56,568 Yes. 47 00:02:56,568 --> 00:02:57,589 magic. 48 00:02:57,829 --> 00:03:03,591 Yeah, so I like to describe mastering in like two stages or two, not two stages, but two parts. 49 00:03:04,052 --> 00:03:12,345 I think both as important, but I would say one is more important than the other, which is probably one of the main reasons of why you should master, which is a technical side of 50 00:03:12,345 --> 00:03:13,275 things. 51 00:03:13,956 --> 00:03:18,357 The technical side is a viable master for whatever medium you're going to. 52 00:03:18,357 --> 00:03:22,167 So if you're to go to vinyl, file that works for vinyl. 53 00:03:22,167 --> 00:03:26,827 Either the cutting engineer or sides and knowing what that means. 54 00:03:26,827 --> 00:03:36,453 If you're going to CDs, streaming, if it's just going to ah be played off MP3s, what's the headroom there? 55 00:03:37,727 --> 00:03:43,386 The loves, if there is limitation to loves or not, the delivery is something that is constantly changing. 56 00:03:43,386 --> 00:03:52,289 And so that's part of the mastering side of things where the mastering engineer should know the day-to-day deliverables for that. 57 00:03:52,321 --> 00:03:59,973 And then the other side of it is the artistic side, is, you know, that last little uh magic dust that we put on. 58 00:03:59,973 --> 00:04:06,624 Hopefully it's just that little, you know, 10 % and we're not actually massaging stuff too much, but sometimes we do have to. 59 00:04:06,624 --> 00:04:16,437 I would say um both as important, but it doesn't matter how good your master sounds if you can't create a viable master. 60 00:04:16,437 --> 00:04:21,738 So uh that and QC, the quality control, just to make sure. 61 00:04:21,930 --> 00:04:23,171 Everything is correct. 62 00:04:23,171 --> 00:04:25,443 No clicks, no pops, right formats. 63 00:04:25,443 --> 00:04:27,174 Nothing's out of phase. 64 00:04:27,175 --> 00:04:31,719 No, you know, dropouts, especially nowadays people are just offline bouncing. 65 00:04:31,719 --> 00:04:32,880 They're tired of the song. 66 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:34,061 Let's just get it out there. 67 00:04:34,061 --> 00:04:37,754 And then there's a plugin that was the low end was soloed. 68 00:04:37,754 --> 00:04:40,267 And so it's, you know, something was weird there. 69 00:04:40,267 --> 00:04:45,221 So I would say that's, that's why you should master. 70 00:04:45,221 --> 00:04:48,512 And that's sort of explains a little bit of what mastering is as well as 71 00:04:48,512 --> 00:04:51,067 the last stage before duplication. 72 00:04:51,329 --> 00:04:56,540 It's changed a little bit throughout history, but that's where it sits right now. 73 00:04:58,256 --> 00:05:04,172 Yeah, I guess that quality control too is a part of it, the extra set of ears even. 74 00:05:04,384 --> 00:05:09,425 Yes, mean, the question of why should you send it to master is a couple of reasons why. 75 00:05:09,425 --> 00:05:16,507 One is you don't have to worry about what you need to deliver, but more importantly is you want a second set of ears in a different room. 76 00:05:16,507 --> 00:05:22,699 Ideally you want a nicely tuned room, uh full range speakers, but a lot of times you don't have that. 77 00:05:22,699 --> 00:05:31,622 But just having a second set of ears in a different room that will expose any problems or not expose any problems, but just know what's happening is, I think, important. 78 00:05:31,622 --> 00:05:33,062 uh And... 79 00:05:34,058 --> 00:05:40,664 a fresh set of ears right before it goes out that's, you know, first time listen like, oh, you know, no, the low end is fine. 80 00:05:40,664 --> 00:05:43,557 You're over stressing or the snare sounds great. 81 00:05:43,557 --> 00:05:48,041 You're just been working on it for three months and focusing on something that sounds great already. 82 00:05:48,041 --> 00:05:50,838 So I think that's, that's important. 83 00:05:50,838 --> 00:05:51,514 Yeah. 84 00:05:53,026 --> 00:06:01,051 How much control do you have over any kind of problems in the mix or if there's some issues? 85 00:06:01,492 --> 00:06:10,017 Do you have to sort of send it back if there's some issues in something like the balance or just some technical errors or do you have some control? 86 00:06:10,395 --> 00:06:15,858 are easier to send back and a technical error would probably be easier to find. 87 00:06:15,858 --> 00:06:20,300 Whether it's dropouts or maybe we hear a little of crunchiness when something's hitting. 88 00:06:20,300 --> 00:06:23,002 Maybe they're hitting the master bus a little bit too much. 89 00:06:23,002 --> 00:06:24,743 We can just double check. 90 00:06:25,283 --> 00:06:31,246 Sending MP3s to master, we can always say you have something higher or 16 bits or something like that. 91 00:06:31,246 --> 00:06:37,890 um If it's a little bit more balanced, it's a little tricky because 92 00:06:38,006 --> 00:06:39,668 We don't know if it's part of the production or not. 93 00:06:39,668 --> 00:06:43,971 We don't know really what happened for the recording side to the mixing side. 94 00:06:43,971 --> 00:06:46,363 We don't know what the mixing engineer had to work with. 95 00:06:46,363 --> 00:06:52,008 So it could be that they got pretty bad tracks to mix and so they did the best they could. 96 00:06:52,008 --> 00:07:00,325 So it's really tricky to just say, you know, after months of work or weeks of work that one engineer says, Hey, you know what? 97 00:07:00,325 --> 00:07:06,530 think the vocal is really loud and distorted or whatever it is that I think the piano is overtaking the 98 00:07:06,530 --> 00:07:09,870 know, horn arrangement, it's a little tricky. 99 00:07:10,370 --> 00:07:12,410 And this is just the way I work. 100 00:07:12,410 --> 00:07:15,130 Pretty sure other engineers have a different perspective. 101 00:07:15,130 --> 00:07:21,150 But the way I think of it is I'm not producing it, I'm just the engineer. 102 00:07:21,150 --> 00:07:31,670 And so what I try to get is a little bit more of a backstory of, all right, please tell me what the song is about, what were your intentions, you know, try to catch me up what 103 00:07:31,670 --> 00:07:33,230 happened in the past few months. 104 00:07:33,230 --> 00:07:35,002 Because I have, you know, 105 00:07:35,306 --> 00:07:38,537 It's one song, probably an hour or two, and that's it, right? 106 00:07:38,537 --> 00:07:41,206 And you've been working on it for really long time, so... 107 00:07:41,206 --> 00:07:42,810 um 108 00:07:44,483 --> 00:07:50,823 But if there is something, for example, that the vocal is very loud and I hear it, you know, this might be a little bit too loud. 109 00:07:50,863 --> 00:07:54,143 I wouldn't really say, hey, can you give me a vocal down? 110 00:07:54,143 --> 00:07:58,243 I would more say, hey, I hear the vocal a little bit on the loud side. 111 00:07:58,243 --> 00:08:02,003 Is it something you want me to keep or is it something to address? 112 00:08:02,003 --> 00:08:03,203 Is this intentional or not? 113 00:08:03,203 --> 00:08:06,903 More like ask the question of tell me what the production idea was. 114 00:08:06,903 --> 00:08:12,183 And if they're not sure, then they're like, oh, we were having some problems with it. 115 00:08:12,183 --> 00:08:13,556 We weren't really sure. 116 00:08:13,556 --> 00:08:16,187 I'll just say send me a vocal down and we'll figure something out. 117 00:08:16,187 --> 00:08:25,370 know, half a dB or a dB, a little bit more old school where before recalls were done in plugins and consoles that would give you six or seven mixes in mastering. 118 00:08:25,370 --> 00:08:35,533 It'll be like your main mix and then vocal up half a dB, vocal up 1 dB, vocal down half a dB, vocal down 1 dB and maybe something different that they had a question of like with or 119 00:08:35,533 --> 00:08:37,634 without fader and then you would choose in mastering. 120 00:08:37,634 --> 00:08:39,254 So, um... 121 00:08:39,584 --> 00:08:41,855 Sometimes I'll request that and maybe it just works. 122 00:08:41,855 --> 00:08:47,856 can slide in and out the vocal up and the verses and then the chorus is fine. 123 00:08:48,156 --> 00:08:49,737 So I can play around with that. 124 00:08:49,737 --> 00:08:58,289 So I think it's more of um trying to gauge what's happening in the production before making a judgment call. 125 00:08:58,289 --> 00:09:08,722 And if there is something that we need to fix, there is quite a bit that we can do, which is really nice, but also pretty dangerous because it's causing effect, unfortunately. 126 00:09:09,216 --> 00:09:18,604 And the basic side of things using EQs, for example, or a little bit of compression, can address a little bit of vocal ups or vocal down, you know, just bring it up a little bit. 127 00:09:18,604 --> 00:09:19,755 Same thing for low end. 128 00:09:19,755 --> 00:09:31,895 um There is some um tools that have come up a little bit with AI and not so much like separating things and then remixing it and then doing it. 129 00:09:31,895 --> 00:09:38,830 It's more of internal plugins that are able to sort of separate things internally and we can, you know, target. 130 00:09:39,020 --> 00:09:41,733 specific instrumentation or vocals. 131 00:09:41,733 --> 00:09:50,162 Again, there's some artifacts if you push it too much, but it's nice to say, I just want to, you know, de-ess the vocal on this one part. 132 00:09:50,162 --> 00:09:58,090 You can probably do that a little bit easier now, but again, it's just the left and right two channels. 133 00:10:00,501 --> 00:10:02,226 I guess, use caution. 134 00:10:02,343 --> 00:10:03,724 Yeah, right. 135 00:10:04,984 --> 00:10:07,104 Let's get more more surprising what you can do. 136 00:10:07,104 --> 00:10:11,524 I used to tell people, you know, once you have the mix, it's like you bake the cake. 137 00:10:11,524 --> 00:10:14,084 I can't take your raw egg out of it anymore. 138 00:10:14,284 --> 00:10:17,844 But now you can kind of get in there. 139 00:10:17,844 --> 00:10:19,024 getting close. 140 00:10:19,037 --> 00:10:27,264 We're getting close, but then I feel like it's the same thing as when you're tracking. 141 00:10:27,277 --> 00:10:34,940 I feel like if you spent the extra two or three takes to get it right as opposed to 10 hours, then editing everything, it's going to sound better. 142 00:10:34,940 --> 00:10:37,532 It's going to be cheaper in the end probably. 143 00:10:38,097 --> 00:10:41,435 And you're not fixing things right off the bat. 144 00:10:41,616 --> 00:10:44,588 So if you record something and you're like, I'll fix it later. 145 00:10:44,588 --> 00:10:47,915 And now you spent 10 hours fixing something or however long it takes and 146 00:10:47,915 --> 00:10:50,717 from the beginning instead of just, let's just mix it and see what happens. 147 00:10:50,717 --> 00:10:53,549 You're already fixing something, so you're playing catch up. 148 00:10:53,730 --> 00:11:04,309 So if you're always playing catch up, then I feel like you're kind of making the song or record not as great as it could be technically, right? 149 00:11:04,309 --> 00:11:07,361 Cause a good song doesn't matter how, in my opinion, how it sounds. 150 00:11:07,361 --> 00:11:14,507 There's some songs that are amazing songs that just sound terrible and nobody notices, including Ingenious cause it's such a great track. 151 00:11:14,507 --> 00:11:17,087 So, but technically wise, I think 152 00:11:17,087 --> 00:11:19,028 I think playing catch up is not ideal. 153 00:11:19,028 --> 00:11:27,366 So I think sort of future proofing things of like, know what, we'll spend the extra hour in the studio to do it or yes, it's going to cost us more than the mix, but then the 154 00:11:27,366 --> 00:11:30,939 mastering engineer is not like, you know, massaging stuff. 155 00:11:30,939 --> 00:11:34,577 And then, you know, we want more vocal or we want more snare. 156 00:11:34,577 --> 00:11:39,647 So we can definitely do that, but then the vocal will come up, maybe some stuff in the guitars will come up. 157 00:11:39,647 --> 00:11:44,181 So now we're doing half and half as opposed to just 158 00:11:44,502 --> 00:11:47,744 give me a little bit more snare in the mix would have been half an hour. 159 00:11:47,744 --> 00:11:50,814 So, but yeah, it's impressive what we can do. 160 00:11:50,814 --> 00:12:01,712 know, a lot of times the mix engineer can't do it or there's a time constraint and there's not much we can do then yes, those tools really come in and it's been extremely helpful. 161 00:12:01,712 --> 00:12:02,412 Yeah. 162 00:12:02,412 --> 00:12:04,433 With fast turnarounds especially. 163 00:12:05,578 --> 00:12:10,356 Yeah, so we want to get it right in the early stages as much as possible. 164 00:12:11,588 --> 00:12:11,940 Yeah. 165 00:12:11,940 --> 00:12:12,285 Yeah. 166 00:12:12,285 --> 00:12:13,325 for everybody. 167 00:12:13,325 --> 00:12:14,465 mean, then there's not stress. 168 00:12:14,465 --> 00:12:18,285 I mean, it's amazing when people come in really confident. 169 00:12:18,285 --> 00:12:20,545 They have the time to do their mixes and the recording. 170 00:12:20,545 --> 00:12:22,925 very happy and it's just everything sounds great already. 171 00:12:22,925 --> 00:12:27,645 It's just adding that extra little percentage of something and mastering. 172 00:12:27,645 --> 00:12:33,605 Sometimes it's just two EQ bands and maybe a dB louder just because we need it a little bit. 173 00:12:33,605 --> 00:12:37,599 And sometimes we have to bring the mix down, you know, 2 dB to fit. 174 00:12:37,599 --> 00:12:49,780 the other tracks because the ballad sounded too loud and it's just two or three little moves and that was it and sounded great as opposed to a million different moves and the 175 00:12:49,780 --> 00:12:58,137 chorus needs to be one setting and then the verses a different setting, the bridge a different setting and then trying to address different things now you're kind of in a 176 00:12:58,137 --> 00:12:59,448 battle there I feel. 177 00:12:59,448 --> 00:13:00,409 oh 178 00:13:03,008 --> 00:13:15,519 Yeah, I think when I first heard of mastering ever, probably still a teenager with going with my band to record an album, then it was like, have to get a master. 179 00:13:15,519 --> 00:13:16,519 What is that? 180 00:13:16,519 --> 00:13:20,163 And our understanding was mostly like, it'll make it louder. 181 00:13:20,163 --> 00:13:26,247 So it sounds the same volume as your other CDs in your, you know, six dicks CD changer. 182 00:13:26,447 --> 00:13:27,258 Right. 183 00:13:28,374 --> 00:13:36,995 But I think that's maybe some of the thinking that got us into a little bit of trouble, some of the trends in mastering, right? 184 00:13:37,441 --> 00:13:43,601 I mean, I think the art of mastering has never been really understood. 185 00:13:44,581 --> 00:13:53,841 And if you, if we go back to a little bit of the history of it is, you know, mastering has always been the last stage, but mastering was started out more as if you want to think of 186 00:13:53,841 --> 00:13:55,701 as transfer engineers. 187 00:13:55,841 --> 00:14:04,981 So if you think like back in the day, right now we would go into the studio and, oh, I want to just get my rough mixes from a recording, get an MP3 and that's it. 188 00:14:04,981 --> 00:14:07,041 Like then you have to like cut a vinyl. 189 00:14:07,361 --> 00:14:08,421 and then play it. 190 00:14:08,421 --> 00:14:08,741 Right? 191 00:14:08,741 --> 00:14:11,732 And same for your rough mixes or mixes, you need to cut a vinyl. 192 00:14:11,732 --> 00:14:16,093 So the mastering engineers would be the one that would always cut the refs. 193 00:14:16,093 --> 00:14:23,785 There's always somebody at a label or a big studio cutting the vinyl, at least for refs, because that's the only way to hear the stuff outside the studio. 194 00:14:23,785 --> 00:14:28,867 And you would start as a mastering engineer and work your way up to recording and mixing. 195 00:14:28,867 --> 00:14:37,269 um So the idea was you would get the experience of the, you know, fine tune your ear because what you wanted was 196 00:14:37,311 --> 00:14:45,906 I want the mixes or the rough tracks or whatever it is to sound like it is coming from tape onto the vinyl. 197 00:14:45,906 --> 00:14:50,078 So if there's any adjustments that we need to make, you you would find Tune Uri that way. 198 00:14:50,078 --> 00:14:51,049 I think that was a theory. 199 00:14:51,049 --> 00:14:59,633 ah That slowly evolved into really its own little genre now of like its own little niche of engineering. 200 00:14:59,633 --> 00:15:06,707 And I do feel like a lot of people just recorded mix, but the mastering is very, very separate still. 201 00:15:07,027 --> 00:15:11,468 Um, and I think that came into play a lot with. 202 00:15:13,161 --> 00:15:16,632 I when mediums changed a little bit, like cassettes and stuff, it's definitely CDs. 203 00:15:16,632 --> 00:15:17,703 CDs was a big change. 204 00:15:17,703 --> 00:15:26,827 The moment we went into, you know, that we can use, or even like digital computers, even if it went to vinyl, but you were using something digital to process things like back in 205 00:15:26,827 --> 00:15:28,727 the day with Sonic Solutions. 206 00:15:30,448 --> 00:15:33,830 think that started to create more what the mastering engineer is these days. 207 00:15:33,830 --> 00:15:38,971 And CDs, I think, made the big change because CDs were the first ones, I think. 208 00:15:39,692 --> 00:15:42,273 Somebody can then comment that I'm wrong, but... 209 00:15:43,213 --> 00:15:51,040 CD is the first one that really there's no physical limitation to the headroom we can use and it's dead silent. 210 00:15:51,040 --> 00:16:03,240 So that started to make things really loud because now there's, you know, the moment there's a brick limiter that's invented and you can basically cut it, so to speak, really 211 00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:08,234 loud without the vinyl punching through now, it makes it louder, right? 212 00:16:08,234 --> 00:16:10,226 So that's one part. 213 00:16:10,226 --> 00:16:11,897 The other part is 214 00:16:12,033 --> 00:16:19,213 I mean, the loudness wars started a little bit before that, even though it wasn't loudness wars because of physical limitations, I feel like, but they realized you have a little bit 215 00:16:19,213 --> 00:16:21,473 of a noise floor that you need to deal with. 216 00:16:21,473 --> 00:16:24,373 So you cut it louder to cover that noise floor. 217 00:16:24,373 --> 00:16:26,433 And then they realized, oh, it's louder. 218 00:16:26,433 --> 00:16:30,253 It's going to, you know, people react more to that loudness on the radio. 219 00:16:30,253 --> 00:16:33,853 So they started to cut it louder, but there is a limitation to it. 220 00:16:33,853 --> 00:16:39,453 Then CDs come and it's like, your limitation is basically minus 0.1 now. 221 00:16:39,453 --> 00:16:40,593 Have fun. 222 00:16:40,773 --> 00:16:41,657 So. 223 00:16:42,377 --> 00:16:44,058 I think that's where it started. 224 00:16:44,058 --> 00:16:52,681 now with Brickwall limiters, TruePeak limiters, it's just, you know, basically as loud as you can go. 225 00:16:52,697 --> 00:16:53,852 It is changing a little bit. 226 00:16:53,852 --> 00:16:57,314 think people are realizing louder is not better. 227 00:16:57,314 --> 00:17:06,698 There's a lot of misinformation out there about having to hit minus 14 loves or minus 16 loves because of streaming services. 228 00:17:06,698 --> 00:17:08,809 There's no real standard. 229 00:17:09,197 --> 00:17:14,902 That's what they level it out to if you have soundcheck on, but if you don't have it on, then it won't do it. 230 00:17:14,902 --> 00:17:16,283 And they could change it at any point. 231 00:17:16,283 --> 00:17:27,212 So, um, so people are realizing I'm not having that much of a discussion with the clients of can you make it louder just for the sake of making it louder? 232 00:17:27,212 --> 00:17:31,377 Um, so it is, I think it's getting a little bit better. 233 00:17:31,377 --> 00:17:32,077 I hope. 234 00:17:32,077 --> 00:17:35,380 I yeah, I feel confident. 235 00:17:35,380 --> 00:17:37,217 I don't think the loudness words. 236 00:17:37,217 --> 00:17:42,821 oh I think it's getting better than like the last few years. 237 00:17:42,821 --> 00:17:47,244 mean, what is getting loudest of mixes, the mixes we receive are getting extremely loud. 238 00:17:47,244 --> 00:17:51,897 We used to have a little bit more headroom and now it's like pretty, it's pretty slammed. 239 00:17:51,897 --> 00:17:59,893 Yeah, I feel like things aren't getting as slammed in mastering as they used to for no reason. 240 00:18:01,427 --> 00:18:12,640 Yeah, but I guess when you were able to shuffle through different songs from different records, it was obvious when certain things were really loud and you didn't want yours to 241 00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:13,961 come out all wimpy. 242 00:18:13,961 --> 00:18:18,560 So we got a little out of hand for a few years there. 243 00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:25,760 A little bit, and still out of hand, it's, it's, I don't know, I feel like it's getting better, which is why I know the utmost thing is a little controversial for a lot of 244 00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:31,600 people, but a lot of people do say, oh, I don't really hear the spatial side of things, but I like how open it is. 245 00:18:31,900 --> 00:18:41,260 And I think they hear it open because that does have a spec and it's almost 10 dB lower around, you know, on average than a stereo mix. 246 00:18:41,260 --> 00:18:45,012 So we're not slamming it as much because we can't. 247 00:18:45,012 --> 00:18:46,955 So people are like, it sounds way more open. 248 00:18:46,955 --> 00:18:47,944 I hear the drums more. 249 00:18:47,944 --> 00:18:51,981 It's like, yeah, it's not as compressed, not even close to being as compressed. 250 00:18:52,123 --> 00:18:57,129 So, you know, it's part of the fun, I would say. 251 00:18:57,353 --> 00:18:58,804 Yeah, right. 252 00:18:59,165 --> 00:19:03,751 Yeah, it's so much stuff now, think, especially so subjective. 253 00:19:03,751 --> 00:19:08,177 There's a stylistic choices like what you were saying about like the vocals seem a little loud. 254 00:19:08,177 --> 00:19:09,538 That might be intentional. 255 00:19:09,538 --> 00:19:14,937 And it sounds like you've developed some bedside manner in addressing that. 256 00:19:14,937 --> 00:19:19,250 it's 90 % of it is bedside manner and also understanding the genre, right? 257 00:19:19,250 --> 00:19:25,385 mean, if it's a punk record and they're like, we want it really loud, I will make it loud because it should be in your face. 258 00:19:25,385 --> 00:19:28,808 Like the whole point is I want to make people uncomfortable or whatever it is. 259 00:19:28,808 --> 00:19:40,218 Or if even if it's, you know, an avant-garde piece that like we want people to uncomfortable in your face, you know, we want them to feel like this is not nice and cover 260 00:19:40,218 --> 00:19:43,380 my ears or that because that's the art piece. 261 00:19:43,423 --> 00:19:44,413 Let's do it. 262 00:19:44,413 --> 00:19:45,714 I don't mind doing that at all. 263 00:19:45,714 --> 00:19:46,734 I think that's great. 264 00:19:46,734 --> 00:19:55,196 um But I think making it loud because my friends is loud or because this other artist has it louder isn't... 265 00:19:55,717 --> 00:19:58,297 That's when I sort of have a little bit of pushback. 266 00:19:58,297 --> 00:20:02,919 I mean, it's their name in the end that's in the cover, but I do have a little bit of pushback there. 267 00:20:02,919 --> 00:20:05,429 ah But it's definitely genre specific. 268 00:20:05,429 --> 00:20:08,240 know, classical piece will not be... 269 00:20:08,608 --> 00:20:18,048 as loud as a punk record for example and I don't think I would make it that loud, it just doesn't sound good but yeah, you have to understand I think the genre as well and where 270 00:20:18,048 --> 00:20:19,864 everything sits, so. 271 00:20:20,875 --> 00:20:25,485 I think I read that on your site somewhere, louder isn't better or something along those lines. 272 00:20:25,485 --> 00:20:27,896 eh 273 00:20:27,896 --> 00:20:31,896 just added this little logo there and people reached out like, is this an initiative? 274 00:20:31,896 --> 00:20:32,776 I was like, not really. 275 00:20:32,776 --> 00:20:36,256 It's a little thing of, it's not always better. 276 00:20:36,256 --> 00:20:38,876 Sometimes it is, but it's not always better. 277 00:20:39,273 --> 00:20:42,365 Yeah, yeah, bit of a choice, I guess. 278 00:20:42,365 --> 00:20:51,130 And so I guess there is a lot of conversation before you actually start the work just to get a sense of what people are looking for. 279 00:20:51,432 --> 00:20:53,333 I try to. 280 00:20:53,333 --> 00:20:57,275 Sometimes you just don't get the chance or it's just via email. 281 00:20:57,315 --> 00:21:00,457 But I always try to at least understand what's happening. 282 00:21:00,457 --> 00:21:08,662 And if I do have any questions, I might hold off on mastering and just sort of wait for an email, see if I can do a quick call with them just to understand what's happening. 283 00:21:08,662 --> 00:21:10,723 ah Especially if it's an album. 284 00:21:10,723 --> 00:21:14,685 Because even sequencing, I spend a lot of time with the spacings between tracks. 285 00:21:14,685 --> 00:21:19,128 I want to understand what is it something that they thought about or they didn't. 286 00:21:19,128 --> 00:21:20,248 ah 287 00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:29,360 So I try and that's why I also encourage for the artists or producers or somebody in the project to come attend the session. 288 00:21:30,900 --> 00:21:36,740 So they can come at the beginning, in the middle, at the end, but it's, you know, for a couple of reasons. 289 00:21:36,740 --> 00:21:38,840 One is I get to meet them. 290 00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:46,580 Two is I will spend a little bit of time sort of discussing the project and sort of understanding the whole idea that they had behind it. 291 00:21:47,648 --> 00:21:52,688 And three is the first time they get to hear the finished product in a nice sounding room. 292 00:21:52,788 --> 00:21:56,188 So it's kind of like going a little bit to the movie theater to see your final product. 293 00:21:56,188 --> 00:22:00,248 And I don't think they'll ever get to hear that again. 294 00:22:00,248 --> 00:22:01,868 And it's the first time you hear it finished. 295 00:22:01,868 --> 00:22:03,228 So I think it's really nice. 296 00:22:03,228 --> 00:22:08,868 So even if they come at the end, just to hear the before and after, but it's just, it's a really nice feeling. 297 00:22:08,868 --> 00:22:16,808 So I encourage it for me, just so could meet them and then for them, so they can actually hear what's happening and it's part of process. 298 00:22:18,056 --> 00:22:19,967 I think it's a fun part of the process. 299 00:22:19,967 --> 00:22:29,861 um My band and I had our last record mastered and we took the road trip out and we had it mastered to tape and then back in. 300 00:22:29,861 --> 00:22:32,572 yeah, it was like that. 301 00:22:32,572 --> 00:22:35,754 was, you know, we're never going to hear it this good again. 302 00:22:35,754 --> 00:22:40,796 You know, this is, this is kind of the celebration too. 303 00:22:40,796 --> 00:22:46,398 And as to like the one that recorded it too, it was nice to 304 00:22:46,652 --> 00:22:50,507 talk to our engineer and say, know, what do you need to do? 305 00:22:50,507 --> 00:22:51,648 Where did I go wrong? 306 00:22:51,648 --> 00:22:54,210 What do you think needs fixing here? 307 00:22:54,351 --> 00:23:01,499 And that feedback was valuable and kind of gave me a sense like, yeah, I tend to do that. 308 00:23:01,499 --> 00:23:02,150 I'm aware. 309 00:23:02,150 --> 00:23:02,940 Okay. 310 00:23:02,940 --> 00:23:07,620 that's, you know, helps you just calibrate yourself. 311 00:23:07,620 --> 00:23:08,140 exactly. 312 00:23:08,140 --> 00:23:12,121 think you bring up a really good point here of like, okay, what needs to be fixed? 313 00:23:12,121 --> 00:23:17,823 And I think that's important for people to know is you don't send stuff to mastering to be fixed. 314 00:23:17,823 --> 00:23:22,064 You send it cause it's the last stage, kind of like you need to send it to be mixed. 315 00:23:22,064 --> 00:23:24,124 It's part of the last stage. 316 00:23:24,124 --> 00:23:32,346 the whole thing of even if you're starting out to master, don't have the mentality of, okay, let me listen to see what I can fix. 317 00:23:33,287 --> 00:23:33,800 It's 318 00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:35,621 We're not really fixing it, hopefully. 319 00:23:35,621 --> 00:23:38,843 We're just maybe enhancing things. 320 00:23:39,023 --> 00:23:44,087 And then if things need to be addressed or fixed, that's, you know, all right, let's try to address it. 321 00:23:44,087 --> 00:23:50,441 But I feel like a lot of people are sending things to Mastering so they can fix their problems. 322 00:23:50,441 --> 00:23:54,703 Because I always get that comment is, OK, what do you think needs to be fixed? 323 00:23:54,703 --> 00:23:55,584 And I'm like, well, nothing. 324 00:23:55,584 --> 00:23:57,995 I'm like, what do mean, nothing? 325 00:23:58,196 --> 00:23:59,336 Like, yeah, it sounds great. 326 00:23:59,336 --> 00:24:00,437 What would you change? 327 00:24:00,437 --> 00:24:01,418 I wouldn't change anything. 328 00:24:01,418 --> 00:24:02,079 I love my mix. 329 00:24:02,079 --> 00:24:03,389 I was like, well, I agree with you. 330 00:24:03,389 --> 00:24:12,292 So we're just going add a little bit of top-end, and we're just going to take out 400 hertz by like 0.5 dB just to open it up a little bit more, and that's it. 331 00:24:12,292 --> 00:24:13,902 And they're like, that's great. 332 00:24:13,902 --> 00:24:15,283 No, yeah, I really like it. 333 00:24:15,283 --> 00:24:15,943 OK. 334 00:24:15,943 --> 00:24:19,284 So I think they're expecting sometimes a big change when it's not needed. 335 00:24:19,284 --> 00:24:25,856 So I think it's important um note to make, because hopefully you're not fixing things. 336 00:24:25,856 --> 00:24:27,977 You're enhancing it, even though we can. 337 00:24:27,977 --> 00:24:29,512 So just. 338 00:24:29,512 --> 00:24:30,073 Right. 339 00:24:30,073 --> 00:24:30,584 that out there. 340 00:24:30,584 --> 00:24:33,782 People are expecting sometimes a night and day change when... 341 00:24:34,205 --> 00:24:35,587 Sometimes it's not. 342 00:24:36,082 --> 00:24:40,026 Yeah, well that would probably be shocking really if it came back. 343 00:24:40,026 --> 00:24:42,531 Whoa, whoa, Because the... 344 00:24:42,531 --> 00:24:43,222 what they're expecting. 345 00:24:43,222 --> 00:24:50,998 I sometimes we do it is a big change and other times they were expecting a night and day change and then it's okay. 346 00:24:50,998 --> 00:24:52,138 What were you expecting? 347 00:24:52,138 --> 00:24:53,269 Because I didn't hear it that way. 348 00:24:53,269 --> 00:24:56,141 Maybe you're hearing it different. 349 00:24:56,562 --> 00:25:01,215 So I think, yeah, I think there's a rule within mastering engineers. 350 00:25:01,215 --> 00:25:03,106 The rule number one is do no harm. 351 00:25:03,106 --> 00:25:08,680 So kind of approach it that way first and then figure out what's happening. 352 00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:09,651 Yeah. 353 00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:16,293 And you mentioned like sequencing tracks and spaces between. 354 00:25:16,693 --> 00:25:25,179 So that's another part that I think people forget sometimes too, is everything has to be consistent in an album or an EP. 355 00:25:25,179 --> 00:25:29,203 don't want, this is the loud song, this is the quiet one and this one's... 356 00:25:29,203 --> 00:25:32,246 yeah, I didn't touch on that point, but it's important. 357 00:25:32,246 --> 00:25:37,510 mean, it's sequencing and that if it's an album that it does sound cohesive. 358 00:25:37,510 --> 00:25:45,176 um So, and by cohesive is a little bit sonically, but I think level wise is the big one. 359 00:25:45,176 --> 00:25:52,833 um So the ballad should be sounding quieter than the loud track and, you know, rocking track. 360 00:25:52,833 --> 00:25:53,974 So that's important. 361 00:25:53,974 --> 00:25:55,934 And also spacing, spacing is important. 362 00:25:55,934 --> 00:25:58,607 A lot of people don't pay attention to spacings, but... 363 00:25:58,634 --> 00:26:04,809 There's a certain flow to an album, so even if you didn't pay attention to it, I will do some spacings. 364 00:26:04,809 --> 00:26:15,598 know, I go by feel, there's no real standard, so I'll play the last minute of the track, and then I know what's coming up next, I close my eyes, make a marker, slide it in, play 365 00:26:15,598 --> 00:26:17,620 it again, be like, okay, yes, that feels right. 366 00:26:17,620 --> 00:26:26,557 And sometimes, that's the only recalls I get is, everything sounds great, but can we add half a second between track four and five and shave a second? 367 00:26:26,557 --> 00:26:28,568 between seven and eight or whatever it is. 368 00:26:28,568 --> 00:26:30,690 um And that's all part of it. 369 00:26:30,690 --> 00:26:33,792 Or where does the track start when you press play? 370 00:26:33,792 --> 00:26:35,193 That's another important part. 371 00:26:35,193 --> 00:26:48,381 So if it's, you know, big pop track, press play and usually it's play and then almost right away kicks in as opposed to, you know, ballad play, extra breath, and then it comes 372 00:26:48,381 --> 00:26:48,652 in. 373 00:26:48,652 --> 00:26:51,023 Or if it's classical music, play. 374 00:26:52,293 --> 00:26:54,584 And then it comes in, you know, all that's important. 375 00:26:54,584 --> 00:26:59,046 So all that's sort of encoded and part of the technical side of things in mastering that we do. 376 00:26:59,046 --> 00:27:14,512 um And again, that sometimes in classical music, especially that's a lot of the recalls is can we add more time before the track comes in when you press play, for example, right? 377 00:27:14,512 --> 00:27:16,683 So all that's all that's part of it. 378 00:27:16,683 --> 00:27:18,774 It's all baked into the file. 379 00:27:18,774 --> 00:27:21,915 If we're doing CDs, you can do pause markers. 380 00:27:22,015 --> 00:27:24,255 you know, all that good stuff. 381 00:27:24,295 --> 00:27:31,655 that's the technical side of things that you shouldn't have to worry about it unless you're a mastering engineer so you can focus on other things. 382 00:27:32,047 --> 00:27:34,538 What is a pause marker on a CD? 383 00:27:35,081 --> 00:27:37,331 So it depends on the program you're using. 384 00:27:37,331 --> 00:27:40,234 I use Sequoia so they use it as pause markers. 385 00:27:40,234 --> 00:27:46,878 forget what Stonic used to call it, but it's essentially like an end ID of a track. 386 00:27:47,659 --> 00:28:00,948 So if we leave it with the terminology of a pause marker, if you have, let's just say a live album is the easiest to explain and you have track one and track two and it's a 387 00:28:00,948 --> 00:28:05,180 continuous album essentially because it's live. 388 00:28:06,288 --> 00:28:13,825 And the artist is crazy and says, want two minutes of applause between each track. 389 00:28:14,106 --> 00:28:16,718 Cause I want people to know how much they love me. 390 00:28:16,718 --> 00:28:17,008 Right? 391 00:28:17,008 --> 00:28:19,270 So let's go to the extreme example. 392 00:28:19,330 --> 00:28:24,796 So the track ends and then you have two minutes of applause. 393 00:28:24,796 --> 00:28:27,417 And then the next track comes in, right? 394 00:28:27,498 --> 00:28:28,289 In a pause mark. 395 00:28:28,289 --> 00:28:30,198 And this really only works with CDs. 396 00:28:30,198 --> 00:28:32,102 You can't really do this on. 397 00:28:32,184 --> 00:28:33,916 on digital platforms. 398 00:28:33,916 --> 00:28:34,806 only for CDs. 399 00:28:34,806 --> 00:28:36,638 The pause marker is only for CDs. 400 00:28:36,638 --> 00:28:42,082 When the track ends, you would add a pause marker that marks the end of the track. 401 00:28:42,943 --> 00:28:49,609 And then between the pause marker and the start ID of track two, it's kind of like no man's land. 402 00:28:50,070 --> 00:28:55,614 The only way to listen to that is if you listen um straight through. 403 00:28:55,614 --> 00:29:00,368 But if you have it in shuffle mode, it stops here and then it goes to the next track. 404 00:29:00,382 --> 00:29:05,402 So if you pop in a CD, I don't know if you've seen the minus five, minus four, minus three. 405 00:29:05,922 --> 00:29:12,462 That's the, now it's counting down the pause marker or a lot of the time it's, that's where we put hidden tracks. 406 00:29:12,622 --> 00:29:18,602 So the only way to listen to that track is if you listen continuous, but if you have it in shuffle mode, you'll never listen to that hidden track. 407 00:29:18,602 --> 00:29:20,022 It's between the markers. 408 00:29:20,102 --> 00:29:25,102 Unfortunately, that's gone away with streaming, but that's one of the cool things in CDs. 409 00:29:25,102 --> 00:29:27,902 So that's what a pause marker is. 410 00:29:29,582 --> 00:29:29,873 Yeah. 411 00:29:29,873 --> 00:29:39,664 a couple albums that would have almost these little intros or something to like the next song and it being negative counting up to zero. 412 00:29:39,664 --> 00:29:40,014 Right. 413 00:29:40,014 --> 00:29:49,723 And so now if you listen to that album on Apple Music or Tidal or Spotify, that intro is probably attached to the previous track. 414 00:29:49,723 --> 00:29:55,990 Because what happens is the pause marker is taken away and the pause marker is now the start of the track as well. 415 00:29:55,990 --> 00:29:58,832 So that start track becomes the end track as well. 416 00:29:58,832 --> 00:30:02,973 So that spacing gets attached to the previous track. 417 00:30:04,214 --> 00:30:04,974 Yeah. 418 00:30:05,624 --> 00:30:08,470 One of those little things we lost with CDs. 419 00:30:09,735 --> 00:30:10,347 Yeah. 420 00:30:10,347 --> 00:30:15,649 to encode, break the code a little bit to like create a CD master that had a hidden track before track one. 421 00:30:15,649 --> 00:30:27,243 Um, cause it's illegal technically to have something before so you would be able to hack it so that either on repeat, I forget if it's on repeat, you would hear it or you have to 422 00:30:27,243 --> 00:30:30,614 like press play and then rewind and then you would hear it. 423 00:30:30,614 --> 00:30:31,145 Yeah. 424 00:30:31,145 --> 00:30:34,105 Yeah, yeah, that's fun. 425 00:30:35,025 --> 00:30:39,865 You know, I was lamenting another thing that we lost with CDs was just the art on the CD. 426 00:30:39,865 --> 00:30:48,065 I was flipping through one of those photo album books that I have of my old CDs and memory lane, I remember them. 427 00:30:48,065 --> 00:30:51,885 I remember my friend's books look like all their albums and some of that art. 428 00:30:51,885 --> 00:30:55,865 I'm like, oh man, like, yeah, that's, we don't have that anymore. 429 00:30:55,965 --> 00:30:56,358 Discard. 430 00:30:56,358 --> 00:30:59,198 why, part of the reason I think vinyl is coming back. 431 00:30:59,338 --> 00:31:07,458 I think there was a study, and I forget the numbers, but a lot of people, a lot of the young listeners don't have vinyl players, but they still buy the vinyl. 432 00:31:07,458 --> 00:31:13,198 And I think it's because something tangible to hold, and you get the artwork and the credits and everything. 433 00:31:13,418 --> 00:31:20,178 So, that's part of the reason why I think, I would say 50 or 60 % of the stuff I master goes to vinyl. 434 00:31:20,178 --> 00:31:21,334 It's quite a bit. 435 00:31:22,242 --> 00:31:27,084 You get that immersive experience of looking in. 436 00:31:27,885 --> 00:31:33,697 I remember that was like sometimes all you ever had of the band or the artists that you were listening to. 437 00:31:33,697 --> 00:31:37,639 didn't have the internet to go and search them up or anything or their Instagram. 438 00:31:37,639 --> 00:31:43,471 And you would just comb over these things and try to make out what these abstract pictures were. 439 00:31:43,825 --> 00:31:44,325 Exactly. 440 00:31:44,325 --> 00:31:46,216 Yeah. 441 00:31:46,216 --> 00:31:50,047 But I think it's nice now that they have the vinyl plus the Instagram plus the internet. 442 00:31:50,047 --> 00:31:56,730 So you can really think it has more access to the artists now to see what they were really thinking and cool projects and stuff. 443 00:31:56,730 --> 00:31:59,651 you have now the artwork plus another insight track. 444 00:31:59,651 --> 00:32:02,542 So I think it's, pretty fun right now where we're at. 445 00:32:02,542 --> 00:32:03,322 Yeah. 446 00:32:03,453 --> 00:32:08,006 Yeah, you get a lot of insight into the behind the scenes, things like that. 447 00:32:08,006 --> 00:32:10,468 Yeah, there's a lot of opportunity for that. 448 00:32:10,468 --> 00:32:18,404 It's a great way to think about it, I guess, too, because I know a lot of people that make music are like, oh, I got to be a social media person. 449 00:32:18,404 --> 00:32:19,165 I got to be this. 450 00:32:19,165 --> 00:32:22,847 And it's like, well, it's part of the art if you look at it that way. 451 00:32:23,388 --> 00:32:24,668 Have fun with it. 452 00:32:25,918 --> 00:32:27,438 gonna complain about something. 453 00:32:27,438 --> 00:32:37,358 was talking to somebody about it and you know before I used to have a band way back when and our complaint was always, oh we can't get distribution, we can't get into tower 454 00:32:37,358 --> 00:32:38,618 records, how are we gonna do? 455 00:32:38,618 --> 00:32:44,998 We just made a thousand CDs that cost us an arm and a leg and we had to do the hardware and it really expensive to do it. 456 00:32:44,998 --> 00:32:47,278 not like Disc Makers wasn't around none of that stuff. 457 00:32:47,278 --> 00:32:49,098 It was a big deal. 458 00:32:51,006 --> 00:32:53,686 funny fact is it never got mastered because we didn't know. 459 00:32:53,686 --> 00:32:57,626 So now I'm a mastering engineer, but that went out just with mixes on its own. 460 00:32:57,626 --> 00:33:00,166 that's a little funny, fun fact there. 461 00:33:00,166 --> 00:33:02,886 so that was our complaint is, oh, we don't have distribution. 462 00:33:02,886 --> 00:33:05,846 Nobody knows about us because if somebody knew about us, we would make it. 463 00:33:05,846 --> 00:33:09,526 And now anybody has worldwide distribution. 464 00:33:09,526 --> 00:33:20,342 So now, you know, it's, but the social media was like, yeah, but I'm pretty sure like we always were complaining that we wanted to be seen and 465 00:33:20,478 --> 00:33:24,278 to have access to our fans and get out there. 466 00:33:24,278 --> 00:33:35,658 And now you can have access to all these people listening to in Europe and Asia, wherever you want and have it play there because it's worldwide with just a click of a button. 467 00:33:35,658 --> 00:33:38,578 And I think it's, I forget how much it is, like $80 or something. 468 00:33:38,578 --> 00:33:42,658 It's pretty inexpensive and now it's worldwide distribution. 469 00:33:42,658 --> 00:33:44,378 And then we're still complaining about it. 470 00:33:44,378 --> 00:33:49,682 So I feel like you have to sort of, you know, take a step back and 471 00:33:49,682 --> 00:33:58,572 They're okay, I think it's good to complain because we always want more, but it's also realize what you have is, think people take for granted world distribution. 472 00:33:59,426 --> 00:33:59,887 yeah? 473 00:33:59,887 --> 00:34:07,402 mean, you used to have to go to the people, get the album in their hands, they'd have to go put it on. 474 00:34:07,535 --> 00:34:08,255 Exactly. 475 00:34:08,255 --> 00:34:08,684 Yeah. 476 00:34:08,684 --> 00:34:08,776 Yeah. 477 00:34:08,776 --> 00:34:16,968 And then send the records, if you got lucky, to the record store on consignment and then they would send it back, but they would put it in the back of the store and then nobody 478 00:34:16,968 --> 00:34:17,768 would see it. 479 00:34:17,768 --> 00:34:19,889 And they promised you they would put it up front. 480 00:34:19,889 --> 00:34:21,760 And now you're just up there. 481 00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:25,851 Yes, we want it to be on playlist, but you have it in the same platform that everybody else has. 482 00:34:25,851 --> 00:34:26,901 It's just promoting it. 483 00:34:26,901 --> 00:34:29,602 So I think, you know, it's... 484 00:34:31,454 --> 00:34:37,279 kind of try to look at it in positive way and sort of take it, you know, I think it's in a good place. 485 00:34:37,279 --> 00:34:40,898 It's just now it's flooded with everybody, which is part of the problem. 486 00:34:40,898 --> 00:34:42,175 so much noise. 487 00:34:43,522 --> 00:34:49,865 But it's, you know, that's when your friends saying, did you hear this or did you hear that? 488 00:34:49,925 --> 00:34:50,876 Listen to this. 489 00:34:50,876 --> 00:34:59,960 think it really helps because now everybody can hear as opposed to taking the cassette, duplicating the cassette and then borrow your CD. 490 00:34:59,960 --> 00:35:07,174 Then you lose the CD and it's, you know, it's fun, but I think this is also a better way for the artist to like get it out there. 491 00:35:07,174 --> 00:35:08,534 So yeah. 492 00:35:09,373 --> 00:35:14,237 Yeah, I have some nostalgia for those days, but I don't want to go back either. 493 00:35:14,238 --> 00:35:16,580 was some fun moments. 494 00:35:16,580 --> 00:35:26,148 got some fun, like, burnt CDs and my tapes that are like people's albums, but it is a lot easier now. 495 00:35:26,214 --> 00:35:27,174 It's a little easy. 496 00:35:27,174 --> 00:35:36,866 The one thing I do miss of back then is standing in line at the record store for like the new album coming out or just going once over to the record store and seeing what's coming 497 00:35:36,866 --> 00:35:41,961 out and they're just spending two hours listening to what they had on their players. 498 00:35:41,961 --> 00:35:45,842 then just maybe come out with one CD, right? 499 00:35:45,842 --> 00:35:52,975 One CD or no CDs or cassettes or whatever it is, but it was a nice way to sort of focus on, all right, I want to see what's coming out. 500 00:35:52,975 --> 00:35:55,526 And now I feel, at least personally, 501 00:35:56,158 --> 00:36:01,478 I don't spend the time doing it and I'll just like kind of look real fast and be like, oh, this came out okay. 502 00:36:01,478 --> 00:36:08,038 And then I listened to one track and it's very easy for me to skip around as opposed to I bought the CD for $12. 503 00:36:08,038 --> 00:36:11,538 Now I'm committed to listen to it because it was my money, you know? 504 00:36:12,438 --> 00:36:14,258 So that I miss. 505 00:36:14,812 --> 00:36:18,872 my favorite music had to grow on me at that time too? 506 00:36:18,872 --> 00:36:22,052 Where I don't know that I give things that chance anymore. 507 00:36:22,052 --> 00:36:25,833 I just move on to the next infinite collection of songs. 508 00:36:25,833 --> 00:36:27,753 know it's just, yeah, yeah, yeah. 509 00:36:27,753 --> 00:36:39,233 So I try, I think of these things and I try to be like, okay, if this was back in the day, I would actually give it a chance and sit down and all right, let's just try to scroll 510 00:36:39,233 --> 00:36:49,473 through what's happening these days and sort of pick and choose and come up with a playlist for that week and I will try to listen to it on my walk to work and just be like, 511 00:36:49,473 --> 00:36:50,833 okay, this was good. 512 00:36:52,668 --> 00:36:54,808 Yeah, we're in a good time. 513 00:36:54,808 --> 00:36:55,728 We really are. 514 00:36:56,568 --> 00:36:59,128 we have access to so much. 515 00:37:02,788 --> 00:37:03,531 Yeah. 516 00:37:03,531 --> 00:37:11,205 of issues for the artists, but again, the part of world distribution is something I keep on remembering. 517 00:37:11,270 --> 00:37:20,673 Well, I mean, if it was back in those days as well, mean, I'm not getting into the studio very often because it costs an arm and a leg. 518 00:37:20,673 --> 00:37:23,497 And now you can do that sitting in your bed. 519 00:37:23,497 --> 00:37:25,781 You can be composing tracks and... 520 00:37:25,781 --> 00:37:26,501 exactly. 521 00:37:26,501 --> 00:37:36,641 Which as it's good and it's bad, but it gives a chance to a lot of people that didn't have the chance before and maybe, you know, so yeah, I just, I just think it takes a, takes one 522 00:37:36,641 --> 00:37:39,861 speed or speed bump out two speed bumps out. 523 00:37:39,881 --> 00:37:44,741 yeah, but send it to be mastered. 524 00:37:45,107 --> 00:37:46,087 Yes. 525 00:37:47,368 --> 00:37:53,651 Do you mind talking a little bit about the different ways, the different mediums, guess? 526 00:37:53,651 --> 00:37:58,782 Like there's streaming, there's mastering for vinyl, know especially, it makes a big difference. 527 00:37:58,782 --> 00:38:00,582 it's changed a little bit. 528 00:38:00,582 --> 00:38:03,302 think the max, yes. 529 00:38:03,302 --> 00:38:10,622 I would say we still do CDs for some reason, but CDs are still a thing. 530 00:38:10,862 --> 00:38:18,542 So I would say CDs, digital distribution for streaming and vinyl, I think were the main ones. 531 00:38:19,102 --> 00:38:25,821 It used to also, it used to be also master for iTunes or Apple digital music, that's they call it. 532 00:38:25,821 --> 00:38:28,763 digital masters, I felt digital masters what to call it now. 533 00:38:28,763 --> 00:38:30,984 That was a separate format as well. 534 00:38:32,045 --> 00:38:47,614 But I would say the three main ones right now are digital distribution, uh which means high res 24 bits at this point, think 80 % of 90 % of the aggregators, Districated, Tuned 535 00:38:47,614 --> 00:38:53,869 Core, Orchard, all those will take a high res at least up to 96K. 536 00:38:54,237 --> 00:38:59,417 I think some of them might take up to one to two, but at least 96K 24 bit. 537 00:39:01,357 --> 00:39:04,317 CDs would be a DDP 4416. 538 00:39:04,317 --> 00:39:11,097 So you make a DDP, which then they would go into Glass Master and then vinyl. 539 00:39:11,097 --> 00:39:17,177 And the vinyl is a little tricky because it depends on what the artist is doing. 540 00:39:17,177 --> 00:39:23,377 I handle it a little bit differently than maybe some engineers do, but I ask. 541 00:39:24,391 --> 00:39:27,763 you know, why they doing the final and if they want to spend the money, do it right or not? 542 00:39:27,763 --> 00:39:31,004 um And the answers are always valid. 543 00:39:31,065 --> 00:39:37,198 It's just, need to know the intentions and it's mostly a financial thing for them. 544 00:39:37,198 --> 00:39:43,892 So if they are saying, it's just a product to put out, we care how it sounds, but... 545 00:39:43,892 --> 00:39:45,973 uh 546 00:39:47,879 --> 00:39:49,684 We care how it sounds, but... 547 00:39:55,774 --> 00:39:58,776 But we don't have financial resources to really do it right, right? 548 00:39:58,776 --> 00:40:04,318 So everybody else is doing it and we can, you know, make some money back from it. 549 00:40:04,318 --> 00:40:06,306 It's like, okay, that's a valid point, right? 550 00:40:06,306 --> 00:40:10,051 And the whole point is you can send it out to a duplication plan. 551 00:40:10,051 --> 00:40:20,547 They'll probably cut the master for, don't know, give you a random number here, but like two or $300 as opposed to having a cutting engineer do it. 552 00:40:20,547 --> 00:40:24,954 Maybe you go to the extreme and reference cuts and all that, that probably adds $1,500. 553 00:40:25,181 --> 00:40:29,862 to their duplication, but it's gonna sound amazing on vinyl. 554 00:40:30,023 --> 00:40:41,936 So all valid points, it's just if it's not going to be an actual cutting engineer that I'm gonna be speaking to, then I will make some adjustments, not crazy adjustments, because I 555 00:40:41,936 --> 00:40:47,408 feel to make crazy adjustments, you would have to do a cutting test and then see how it comes out. 556 00:40:47,408 --> 00:40:49,449 Sometimes you don't need to do too much. 557 00:40:50,685 --> 00:40:56,265 But if it is going to vinyl and I know it's going to vinyl and it's a loud record, I want it pretty loud. 558 00:40:57,045 --> 00:41:02,125 I'll set my gain staging in a way where I can print two masters at the same time. 559 00:41:02,125 --> 00:41:06,185 And so one is right before like a couple of my limiters or compression. 560 00:41:06,185 --> 00:41:09,585 So it has way more headroom and it's not as slammed. 561 00:41:11,145 --> 00:41:18,625 And then that one, I might make some adjustments, double check it to see if there's a lot of S's or the hi-hats. 562 00:41:18,625 --> 00:41:20,893 I might address that a little bit. 563 00:41:20,893 --> 00:41:31,533 And this again is if they're not going to a cutting engineer, if they're just going to the duplication plant or if it's electronic music or something is happening where the low, low 564 00:41:31,533 --> 00:41:33,513 end is stereo or out of phase. 565 00:41:33,513 --> 00:41:38,473 Maybe I have to bring it in a little bit so that the needle doesn't pop in and out. 566 00:41:38,493 --> 00:41:41,433 And also taking into consideration how long the sides are. 567 00:41:41,433 --> 00:41:49,133 If it's 12 minute sides or 15 minute sides, I might cut it little bit louder, but if it's 20 minute sides, it's a rock album. 568 00:41:49,133 --> 00:41:51,096 We have to really bring the volume down. 569 00:41:51,096 --> 00:41:52,251 Um, so. 570 00:41:52,251 --> 00:41:54,444 just not physical space, right? 571 00:41:54,444 --> 00:41:56,210 Just in the grooves. 572 00:41:56,210 --> 00:41:56,700 Correct. 573 00:41:56,700 --> 00:41:57,150 Yeah. 574 00:41:57,150 --> 00:42:03,372 So the louder you want it, the more space it takes to a certain degree. 575 00:42:03,754 --> 00:42:13,578 So, also like very out of phase, if you want to call it low end doesn't cut well or won't cut because the needle goes out. 576 00:42:13,919 --> 00:42:20,962 So a lot of people, the default is I'm going to make a hundred Hertz and below mono, put a de-esser on and drop it 60B. 577 00:42:20,962 --> 00:42:24,444 A lot of times if you don't do a test cut, maybe you don't have to make 578 00:42:24,444 --> 00:42:27,404 the 100Hz mono, maybe it might cut well. 579 00:42:27,684 --> 00:42:32,644 So that's the thing that I like to, I use two three cutting engineers that I work with a lot. 580 00:42:33,184 --> 00:42:38,224 And if there's always an issue that can come back to me and say like, hey, can you do this? 581 00:42:38,224 --> 00:42:45,124 You know, I can't do too much on my end, but at this point I know enough to sort of give it the best chance for the medium. 582 00:42:45,767 --> 00:42:50,260 um You said yes, Is that what you said back there? 583 00:42:50,260 --> 00:42:51,880 the de-esser is important. 584 00:42:51,940 --> 00:42:58,340 Most, I would say, I'm not a cutting engineer per se, but most of the time there's a de-esser when cutting. 585 00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:06,680 The lathes have a de-esser because too much high frequency burns through, it will break the vinyl. 586 00:43:07,720 --> 00:43:16,640 So, sometimes that's why you hear loud records, there's a little bit of like a crunch, like a little bit of a compression happening on S's, it's probably the de-esser hitting 587 00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:18,920 because it doesn't cut well, so. 588 00:43:19,226 --> 00:43:21,990 I'll make sure that if there's something very sibilant. 589 00:43:24,069 --> 00:43:26,135 The cutting engineer doesn't have too much of an issue. 590 00:43:26,135 --> 00:43:29,081 But again, I like to be in touch with them. 591 00:43:29,083 --> 00:43:33,132 Yeah, sometimes I'll go to the cutting session and cut with them. 592 00:43:34,011 --> 00:43:35,563 Right. 593 00:43:35,563 --> 00:43:37,854 That's it for doing it the right way. 594 00:43:38,135 --> 00:43:39,616 Investing the money. 595 00:43:40,758 --> 00:43:41,225 Yeah. 596 00:43:41,225 --> 00:43:43,087 how it sounds, then do it the right way. 597 00:43:43,087 --> 00:43:48,984 If you need the product, like 100 % understand you need the product, then we try to make it sound as best as possible. 598 00:43:48,984 --> 00:43:57,252 But you know, they won't spend the time making the, the, uh, the test cuts and then making small adjustments. 599 00:43:59,037 --> 00:44:01,297 It's going to sound 80%, right? 600 00:44:01,297 --> 00:44:01,997 It's going to sound fine. 601 00:44:01,997 --> 00:44:07,417 It's going to sound at 80%, but it won't sound 100 % of the meaning, but it's going to sound fine. 602 00:44:07,417 --> 00:44:09,428 Um, so yeah. 603 00:44:10,137 --> 00:44:14,242 Yeah, and I was just going to say this is another thing to be thankful for that we have. 604 00:44:14,242 --> 00:44:19,486 The digital medium is a little bit easier to work with and you have to, yeah. 605 00:44:19,995 --> 00:44:28,582 Yeah, which is funny because I'm constantly injecting noise into recordings now just to bring back all the problems I used to fight against. 606 00:44:28,582 --> 00:44:33,146 Whether it was, yeah, whether things were too sloppy. 607 00:44:33,146 --> 00:44:35,027 I can't play drums right now. 608 00:44:35,027 --> 00:44:36,968 Everything's too quantized. 609 00:44:38,550 --> 00:44:41,532 Re-injecting all that humanity to what I do. 610 00:44:42,233 --> 00:44:44,100 Vinyl crackle in the mix. 611 00:44:44,100 --> 00:44:44,501 yeah. 612 00:44:44,501 --> 00:44:45,121 Exactly. 613 00:44:45,121 --> 00:44:46,672 Yeah, it's funny with the vinyl crackle. 614 00:44:46,672 --> 00:44:50,403 There's an album I just did that had vinyl crackle effects throughout. 615 00:44:50,603 --> 00:44:57,706 And I requested them a separate mix without the vinyl crackle because I was going to vinyl and I like, we can't add vinyl crackle to the vinyl. 616 00:44:57,706 --> 00:45:00,206 This is not going to bode well. 617 00:45:01,147 --> 00:45:02,067 yeah. 618 00:45:03,888 --> 00:45:04,728 Yeah. 619 00:45:05,335 --> 00:45:06,795 That's pretty funny. 620 00:45:07,896 --> 00:45:14,699 But it's, um, yeah, it's amazing just how far that's come and that we can do it. 621 00:45:14,699 --> 00:45:21,491 think even like now records, you get away with a lot more than you used to as far as like bass and stuff like that. 622 00:45:21,491 --> 00:45:25,228 We're vinyl, yeah. 623 00:45:25,228 --> 00:45:26,201 I think so. 624 00:45:26,201 --> 00:45:30,320 Again, I'm not a cutting engineer, so I'm not an expert that much. 625 00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:33,036 I know enough to get myself into trouble, I would say. 626 00:45:33,036 --> 00:45:43,423 uh But I mean, yes, you can probably now get away with it a little bit more, but there is a physical limitation. 627 00:45:43,423 --> 00:45:46,375 So the big thing is probably level. 628 00:45:46,375 --> 00:45:50,748 It's going to be cut lower in volume, which now brings up the noise floor. 629 00:45:50,780 --> 00:45:54,080 There's some great sounding loud records and it sounds great. 630 00:45:57,253 --> 00:46:00,031 Yeah, I mean that's as much as I know. 631 00:46:00,031 --> 00:46:02,147 Again, I get myself more into trouble than not. 632 00:46:02,147 --> 00:46:04,833 So that's why I rely on the cutting engineers. 633 00:46:07,029 --> 00:46:13,177 I'm guessing you're using like a mix of hardware and software stuff when you master. 634 00:46:13,340 --> 00:46:15,540 Yeah, my setup is a hybrid. 635 00:46:15,540 --> 00:46:28,140 I would say changes per project, maybe per song, but I would say 75 % of the time I'm in hybrid mode. 636 00:46:28,140 --> 00:46:35,520 So I'll use some plugins and then the plugins I use are mostly more for like cleanup, a little bit of sound. 637 00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:40,680 And then the hardware is more of a coloring thing, more of the broad strokes. 638 00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:43,324 And then I bring it back in. 639 00:46:43,324 --> 00:47:01,524 print um from that is usually and then um if I feel like um going through the converters or it's gonna be too much color with the hardware I have um won't really add anything to 640 00:47:01,524 --> 00:47:06,117 the mixes and it'll be detrimental then I'll just stay in the box. 641 00:47:06,117 --> 00:47:11,996 We have amazing plugins now it's not like 10 years ago where there was an excuse that 642 00:47:11,996 --> 00:47:13,796 Oh, it's not hardware. 643 00:47:13,896 --> 00:47:19,256 Slug-ins are fantastic now and I feel like they're just... 644 00:47:19,256 --> 00:47:22,056 I want the same par, but almost on par. 645 00:47:22,056 --> 00:47:29,036 I think you would choose to go out of the box versus in the box because it's a different sound as opposed to quality. 646 00:47:29,556 --> 00:47:32,336 The same thing of why you would choose this mic over this other mic. 647 00:47:32,336 --> 00:47:33,616 I think it's the same thing. 648 00:47:33,616 --> 00:47:35,956 That's where we're at right now. 649 00:47:36,176 --> 00:47:37,422 So, yeah. 650 00:47:37,422 --> 00:47:48,197 I might get to a final sound faster because I like to tweak the knobs in another rig well enough, but I think everything in the box right now is, we're in a really good place right 651 00:47:48,197 --> 00:47:49,488 now, plugin wise. 652 00:47:50,631 --> 00:47:54,062 Do you have any go-tos, any favorites, plug-in-wise? 653 00:47:54,062 --> 00:47:58,184 eh 654 00:47:58,184 --> 00:48:04,517 but right now, so for plugins, I use a lot of the, the iSetup Ozone stuff. 655 00:48:04,517 --> 00:48:08,219 Uh, 10 and 11 are great. 656 00:48:08,219 --> 00:48:11,451 The Maximizer, I really like, I like the Maximizer. 657 00:48:11,451 --> 00:48:15,182 I think I'm mostly also used to the sound it does with the different variations. 658 00:48:15,182 --> 00:48:17,043 Um, so I know what it does. 659 00:48:17,043 --> 00:48:20,965 So it's very easy for me to achieve something using the Maximizer. 660 00:48:20,986 --> 00:48:22,106 Plugins are nice. 661 00:48:22,106 --> 00:48:24,387 Um, it's really nice that you can switch the order. 662 00:48:24,441 --> 00:48:31,394 in no zone, the signal chain, the exciter is great because have multi-band exciter with like amount and mix. 663 00:48:31,394 --> 00:48:39,678 um And then FabFilter, the Q4 that came out recently is game changer for me. 664 00:48:39,678 --> 00:48:45,880 um Michelangelo from projects, I think it is. 665 00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:49,591 um Grady Q. 666 00:48:49,591 --> 00:48:52,219 um I like the... 667 00:48:52,219 --> 00:48:55,684 Pro L2 I think it is from FoutFilter, the limiter, it's great. 668 00:48:55,684 --> 00:49:06,358 um I use the Oxford Inflator sometimes, just a little bit of, I don't know, character to things, as well as the black box. 669 00:49:06,899 --> 00:49:10,073 I'm think what other plugins. 670 00:49:14,927 --> 00:49:16,790 Off the top of my head, I think. 671 00:49:16,867 --> 00:49:19,897 There's probably like one or two other EQs I'm forgetting right now. 672 00:49:19,958 --> 00:49:20,759 Yeah. 673 00:49:20,868 --> 00:49:22,917 Those are your main players though. 674 00:49:22,917 --> 00:49:27,351 I would say I jump to that and then I'll figure out if I need something else. 675 00:49:27,351 --> 00:49:30,893 As far as de-essers go, the Weiss plugin de-esser is great. 676 00:49:32,856 --> 00:49:35,347 The FabFilter de-esser is great. 677 00:49:35,347 --> 00:49:40,182 It also has a sidechain so you can sidechain things to it if needed to just trigger the essers. 678 00:49:40,182 --> 00:49:46,707 um And then the other thing, 100 % of the stuff goes through is RX. 679 00:49:47,228 --> 00:49:51,491 We QC in RX, we de-click, we de-pop in RX. 680 00:49:51,812 --> 00:49:58,498 If there's one S in the entire track that's messing us up, we'll probably attenuate using spectral repairs. 681 00:49:58,498 --> 00:50:01,180 It's easier than a DSR and less intrusive. 682 00:50:01,221 --> 00:50:07,987 So, RX is just as important as Sequoia for us, or Pro Tools. 683 00:50:08,360 --> 00:50:08,820 Hmm. 684 00:50:08,820 --> 00:50:09,760 Wow. 685 00:50:10,701 --> 00:50:14,684 Yeah, that's a wild piece of software. 686 00:50:15,065 --> 00:50:15,925 Rx. 687 00:50:16,489 --> 00:50:16,950 important. 688 00:50:16,950 --> 00:50:23,942 We do all our conversion, our sample rate and dither of Rx because we can tweak every little thing we can tweak. 689 00:50:23,942 --> 00:50:29,633 So we've made experiments and come up with certain steepness to the curve and pre-ringing that we like and all that. 690 00:50:29,633 --> 00:50:35,465 So um yes, everything gets converted via Rx and has a nice batch convert. 691 00:50:35,465 --> 00:50:41,707 So that's the other big one that we use in the computer is software wise, at least it's Rx. 692 00:50:42,922 --> 00:50:43,904 Nice. 693 00:50:45,067 --> 00:50:49,273 Can you tell me a little bit about, it's pronounced Zampole Productions, right? 694 00:50:49,273 --> 00:50:50,084 Zample Productions. 695 00:50:50,084 --> 00:50:51,465 Yeah, Zample Productions. 696 00:50:51,465 --> 00:50:53,506 It's my studio in the city. 697 00:50:54,047 --> 00:50:55,829 Started 20 years ago. 698 00:50:55,829 --> 00:50:58,411 Yeah, started 20 years ago, New York City. 699 00:50:58,411 --> 00:51:01,853 um We just celebrated our 20 years. 700 00:51:03,315 --> 00:51:04,396 Thanks. 701 00:51:04,616 --> 00:51:05,757 Started in my bedroom. 702 00:51:05,757 --> 00:51:14,294 um Slowly moved up to like renting a place with somebody else and then moved places. 703 00:51:14,294 --> 00:51:17,723 And now we've been in this current facility, which is inside. 704 00:51:17,723 --> 00:51:20,923 second story down the lower side. 705 00:51:22,583 --> 00:51:25,563 And we've been here 10 years. 706 00:51:26,843 --> 00:51:28,903 And yeah, we started it out. 707 00:51:28,903 --> 00:51:38,463 I mean, I started out with a good friend of mine from college just because I was working in New York as a general assistant cleaning bathrooms at the studio called Sound on Sound 708 00:51:38,463 --> 00:51:40,903 and my visa got denied. 709 00:51:40,903 --> 00:51:44,860 And so I had to go back to Mexico and I know. 710 00:51:44,860 --> 00:51:46,080 wasn't ready to go back yet. 711 00:51:46,080 --> 00:51:53,520 So I went back to Mexico for a few months and then I came back and I applied for a, I think we call it an artist visa. 712 00:51:53,520 --> 00:52:05,540 then to prove I was doing something, we started like this little company on paper and I had enough freelance gigs to sort of pay rent sometimes. 713 00:52:06,520 --> 00:52:10,619 And just started just to do something and 714 00:52:10,619 --> 00:52:16,099 Somehow 20 years later, we're still here with like a bigger facility and doing lots of records. 715 00:52:16,519 --> 00:52:17,979 So yeah, that's how it started. 716 00:52:17,979 --> 00:52:22,739 it's productions because back then, if the phone rang, we said yes. 717 00:52:23,299 --> 00:52:26,639 So, oh, do you do sound effects for films? 718 00:52:26,639 --> 00:52:27,579 Yes. 719 00:52:27,699 --> 00:52:29,619 Do you do, you know, do you produce sound? 720 00:52:29,619 --> 00:52:30,159 Yes. 721 00:52:30,159 --> 00:52:30,839 was a yes. 722 00:52:30,839 --> 00:52:34,899 I need any gig possible, but mastering was always like something that I was doing. 723 00:52:34,899 --> 00:52:35,411 So. 724 00:52:36,191 --> 00:52:47,780 I'm 90 % mastering now, 85 % mastering, quite a bit of utmost so we'll throw that utmost in but we don't do that much post-production anymore, that's just more of that but that's 725 00:52:47,780 --> 00:52:55,165 why it's example productions as opposed to example mastering is we started as on the website yes to everything. 726 00:52:55,165 --> 00:52:57,666 We do it all just because we needed the gigs. 727 00:52:58,761 --> 00:53:00,964 I hear that a lot from people. 728 00:53:01,046 --> 00:53:01,547 Yeah. 729 00:53:01,547 --> 00:53:01,708 yeah. 730 00:53:01,708 --> 00:53:02,119 We do that. 731 00:53:02,119 --> 00:53:03,490 No, how do we do that? 732 00:53:03,713 --> 00:53:05,440 That's when you figure it out. 733 00:53:05,440 --> 00:53:09,503 of say yes and then figure it out later in situations. 734 00:53:09,604 --> 00:53:14,287 But yeah, unfortunately it's worked out and mastering has always been part of it. 735 00:53:15,703 --> 00:53:22,971 There's something about that when you're under the fire and it's like you've got the job and you've got to make it work. 736 00:53:22,971 --> 00:53:27,031 You gotta make it work and you gotta make them happy because it's a very small world. 737 00:53:27,531 --> 00:53:30,331 So people will talk, so you better not mess it up. 738 00:53:30,331 --> 00:53:31,711 So it's definitely, it's good. 739 00:53:31,711 --> 00:53:33,391 It's good learning curve and stuff. 740 00:53:33,391 --> 00:53:34,591 So yeah. 741 00:53:34,751 --> 00:53:36,851 So that's a little bit of a bad sample. 742 00:53:37,454 --> 00:53:39,416 Yeah, that's cool. 743 00:53:39,777 --> 00:53:49,406 I read you did the uh Weezer live performance for Spotify, which I've seen and I love Weezer, one of my favorites. 744 00:53:49,426 --> 00:53:51,036 That sounds incredible. 745 00:53:51,036 --> 00:53:52,246 Mason, the engineer there. 746 00:53:52,246 --> 00:53:53,157 Yeah. 747 00:53:54,198 --> 00:53:55,109 It was so fun. 748 00:53:55,109 --> 00:53:56,109 That was almost a dream. 749 00:53:56,109 --> 00:53:57,040 That was a dream come true. 750 00:53:57,040 --> 00:54:00,583 I it's that album of Weezer was, I grew up with that album. 751 00:54:00,583 --> 00:54:03,164 so now, yeah. 752 00:54:03,945 --> 00:54:04,525 Yeah. 753 00:54:04,525 --> 00:54:09,949 And so now to be working on it, I thought, I I know it's biased because I worked on it, but I thought it sounded great. 754 00:54:09,949 --> 00:54:11,680 So I was very proud of that. 755 00:54:11,790 --> 00:54:12,791 It sounds incredible. 756 00:54:12,791 --> 00:54:13,691 Yeah. 757 00:54:14,992 --> 00:54:18,074 Now, were you on site doing that as they were performing? 758 00:54:18,795 --> 00:54:19,755 Okay. 759 00:54:20,496 --> 00:54:22,515 You kinda, yeah, right. 760 00:54:22,515 --> 00:54:22,855 fact. 761 00:54:22,855 --> 00:54:26,538 But I was in touch quite a bit with engineer Jack. 762 00:54:26,538 --> 00:54:31,556 then, fortunately, have no recalls in the mastering. 763 00:54:31,556 --> 00:54:32,924 Everybody loved it. 764 00:54:32,924 --> 00:54:37,999 it was great, but also almost no interaction. 765 00:54:37,999 --> 00:54:41,270 Because I sent it to be mastered, sent it back to him. 766 00:54:41,270 --> 00:54:44,234 It like, And I was like, oh, that's great. 767 00:54:44,634 --> 00:54:50,314 a little bit more like, hey, it's good. 768 00:54:50,314 --> 00:54:54,774 no, it was super, super cool to do. 769 00:54:55,354 --> 00:54:55,874 yeah, yeah. 770 00:54:55,874 --> 00:54:57,474 was no stress. 771 00:54:57,474 --> 00:54:59,594 So it was super cool to do. 772 00:55:00,734 --> 00:55:05,914 And like I said, I was just very happy with the way it sounded because it was a little nerve wracking. 773 00:55:05,914 --> 00:55:10,454 Such a classic record with these guys and be like, what did they do? 774 00:55:11,494 --> 00:55:13,234 So yeah, it was good. 775 00:55:13,294 --> 00:55:13,887 Yeah. 776 00:55:13,887 --> 00:55:15,579 yeah, I'm like that about it too. 777 00:55:15,579 --> 00:55:24,990 think if it was played around with too much, you know, it's just so imprinted in my musical DNA, that stuff. 778 00:55:24,990 --> 00:55:32,408 So, but it came out great and it's really cool to hear some of the talking in between and a little bit of the storytelling. 779 00:55:32,837 --> 00:55:34,541 Which is super fun. 780 00:55:34,541 --> 00:55:36,384 Plus, I can't believe so much time had passed. 781 00:55:36,384 --> 00:55:37,966 I was like, my God. 782 00:55:38,010 --> 00:55:38,779 I can't believe it. 783 00:55:38,779 --> 00:55:39,342 How? 784 00:55:39,342 --> 00:55:40,323 Yeah. 785 00:55:40,687 --> 00:55:43,642 Yeah, I was like just becoming a teenager at that point. 786 00:55:43,642 --> 00:55:44,482 I know. 787 00:55:44,482 --> 00:55:45,762 I was like, where did the time go? 788 00:55:45,762 --> 00:55:46,942 I know. 789 00:55:47,002 --> 00:55:47,362 Yeah. 790 00:55:47,362 --> 00:55:50,262 So, but yeah, that was, that was a cool project to work on. 791 00:55:50,724 --> 00:55:56,779 Yeah, I mean, you've got the list of people and artists you've worked with is pretty wild. 792 00:55:56,779 --> 00:55:59,635 mean, it's almost like a who's who of a... 793 00:55:59,635 --> 00:56:01,026 Yeah, again, we've been super lucky. 794 00:56:01,026 --> 00:56:01,777 It's been fun. 795 00:56:01,777 --> 00:56:04,219 You know, I like to say it's better than having a real job. 796 00:56:04,219 --> 00:56:06,901 So, you know, it's good. 797 00:56:06,901 --> 00:56:08,442 Yeah, we've been lucky. 798 00:56:08,623 --> 00:56:10,954 I really like that it's been a span of genres. 799 00:56:10,954 --> 00:56:27,238 know, we'll do some Cornus Quartet with Steve Reich to like Broadway shows to, you know, mariachi music with the big Alejandro Fernandez, who just got a Grammy to Weezer. 800 00:56:27,238 --> 00:56:27,988 It's just 801 00:56:27,988 --> 00:56:38,882 It's great jazz records, did this bronze of Spalding, some stuff for Samara Joy, so it's just, it's been really nice to sort of have it so all over the place in a good way. 802 00:56:38,882 --> 00:56:39,973 Yeah. 803 00:56:41,530 --> 00:56:49,293 Well, you said a real job, not having a real job or better than a real job, but I will point out to everybody. 804 00:56:49,434 --> 00:56:53,696 It's 6 PM now and you said you started at 7 AM this morning. 805 00:56:54,156 --> 00:56:54,667 yeah. 806 00:56:54,667 --> 00:57:05,097 job, but I mean, it's, hard to, I was telling somebody it's hard to call it a real job when you get paid to listen to music, you know, it's long stressful hours, but it's, I 807 00:57:05,097 --> 00:57:05,557 don't know. 808 00:57:05,557 --> 00:57:10,381 It's just, it's listening to music and great speakers, unfortunately, good music. 809 00:57:10,381 --> 00:57:12,083 it's, it's, it's good. 810 00:57:12,083 --> 00:57:13,294 It's, it's, it's hard work. 811 00:57:13,294 --> 00:57:14,864 It's long hours, but it's Yeah. 812 00:57:15,097 --> 00:57:15,937 Yeah. 813 00:57:16,158 --> 00:57:24,357 Was there a particular assignment or job that you got maybe going back a little bit where you're like, my God, like this is pretty wild. 814 00:57:24,357 --> 00:57:27,031 We're working on this record for whoever. 815 00:57:27,031 --> 00:57:28,794 Anything stick out for you like that? 816 00:57:28,794 --> 00:57:32,016 There's a couple, think it's more, I mean, it happens. 817 00:57:35,407 --> 00:57:39,439 Like maybe in the early days when it's like, holy crap, how did we do it? 818 00:57:39,439 --> 00:57:51,319 mean, I'm one of those that still I'll buy most, not most, but like if I see the CD or vinyl that I worked on, I'll buy it because I still get super excited and giddy to see my 819 00:57:51,319 --> 00:57:52,079 name on there. 820 00:57:52,079 --> 00:57:55,479 And I'll I'll text it to my mom and my mom's like, yes, Oscar. 821 00:57:55,739 --> 00:57:57,239 We know like it's great. 822 00:57:57,239 --> 00:57:57,639 Congrats. 823 00:57:57,639 --> 00:57:58,859 And I was like, it's so exciting. 824 00:57:58,859 --> 00:58:02,359 You my name's on the cover, you or on the back of the lighter notes. 825 00:58:02,359 --> 00:58:04,459 It's that's still gets me very excited. 826 00:58:04,459 --> 00:58:07,724 But I guess a big one was a big one is 827 00:58:07,724 --> 00:58:22,899 Starting out, it's like three or four months into general uh GA-ing at Sound and Sound, um there was this album by Mark Anthony, which became huge. 828 00:58:22,899 --> 00:58:26,840 um it's a salsa album, Valió La Pena. 829 00:58:26,860 --> 00:58:34,010 And the engineer that was coming in um wanted to Spanish speaking. 830 00:58:34,010 --> 00:58:42,150 Now you have to keep in mind that the hierarchy was, it sounds like there's maybe one engineer, but it's assistants and then general assistants. 831 00:58:42,150 --> 00:58:48,170 And the general assistants essentially cleaned the bathrooms and got coffee and make sure everything ran right. 832 00:58:48,290 --> 00:58:49,950 The assistants were the assistants in the session. 833 00:58:49,950 --> 00:58:57,450 And if it was a big session or the GAs were done with their job, they could maybe sit in in the background to watch sessions. 834 00:58:57,450 --> 00:59:03,672 So you can slowly move up the ladder and it would take six months or three years. 835 00:59:03,672 --> 00:59:08,443 depending on somebody needed to leave for the whole thing to shift. 836 00:59:09,324 --> 00:59:15,605 So three months in or four months in, very early on, it was still very long, know, bottom of the totem pole. 837 00:59:15,605 --> 00:59:19,686 They said, okay, I need somebody to speak Spanish, Oscar, you're up. 838 00:59:19,687 --> 00:59:22,977 And they told me it was a mixing um gig. 839 00:59:22,977 --> 00:59:29,579 And I was extremely stressed out because I didn't know the JSSLJ console computer that well. 840 00:59:29,579 --> 00:59:32,334 I knew it well, but not enough for mixing. 841 00:59:32,334 --> 00:59:40,166 Back then we would mix everything automation in the SSL eh without, it wasn't mixing Pro Tools essentially. 842 00:59:40,166 --> 00:59:42,841 It was like all console, all upboard gear. 843 00:59:42,874 --> 00:59:50,726 I forget if it was up to two inch or it wasn't Pro Tools, but Pro Tools was essentially like a two inch machine playback. 844 00:59:50,966 --> 01:00:01,113 So I asked the chief tech to see if I could take home that night the manual to read the SSL, say console computer, because of, you know. 845 01:00:01,113 --> 01:00:03,573 I needed to know all the information well. 846 01:00:03,753 --> 01:00:06,993 Took it home, read it, sort of understood what was happening. 847 01:00:06,993 --> 01:00:13,913 Went back and an hour before we were supposed to start mixing they said, and here's a setup sheet for recording. 848 01:00:14,313 --> 01:00:15,533 And I said, what do mean recording? 849 01:00:15,533 --> 01:00:16,793 They said it was a mixing. 850 01:00:16,893 --> 01:00:18,613 Like, oh no, the full band's coming. 851 01:00:18,613 --> 01:00:20,453 It's like, what do mean the full band's coming? 852 01:00:21,817 --> 01:00:25,597 And they have to keep in mind, I'm like 22 years old, three months into the job. 853 01:00:25,597 --> 01:00:27,057 And they said, no, a full band's coming. 854 01:00:27,057 --> 01:00:27,637 Here's a setup. 855 01:00:27,637 --> 01:00:28,997 And it's a full salsa band. 856 01:00:28,997 --> 01:00:31,857 It was Grupo Nietzsche, which is like the biggest salsa band. 857 01:00:33,117 --> 01:00:36,777 And so I had like an hour to set up all the mics. 858 01:00:37,157 --> 01:00:40,457 And then for four days, they tracked this amazing salsa record. 859 01:00:40,457 --> 01:00:46,467 And I got to be pretty involved with it because, you know, Papa trusted me enough to engineer and we... 860 01:00:46,467 --> 01:00:53,342 did a lot of stuff together and that was the moment where I'm like with this amazing salsa band and Mark Anthony for four days. 861 01:00:53,543 --> 01:00:56,706 know, that for me was like, wow, this is great. 862 01:00:56,706 --> 01:00:58,027 And then that was my first credit. 863 01:00:58,027 --> 01:00:59,187 They put me in the credits. 864 01:00:59,187 --> 01:01:06,893 um So that I think was a big moment of, all right, this is, can't believe it. 865 01:01:08,315 --> 01:01:10,576 So, yeah. 866 01:01:11,578 --> 01:01:14,050 Yeah, I will never forget the panic of like, what do mean? 867 01:01:14,050 --> 01:01:15,491 Yeah, and it's a 868 01:01:15,491 --> 01:01:16,142 full band. 869 01:01:16,142 --> 01:01:24,031 It's like, I forget, three different percussionists, horns, piano, rough vocals, I think we cut. 870 01:01:24,031 --> 01:01:35,343 It was a thing and I had an hour to set up and I never set anything up on my own because I was starting out so it was a nerve-wracking but we did it and nobody complained. 871 01:01:35,352 --> 01:01:40,756 Yeah, I guess they probably sound so good too right offbeat. 872 01:01:40,756 --> 01:01:50,329 can put a, I mean, not to degrade the engineering side of that engineer, because he was a great engineer, but it's definitely, put a BZM in the ceiling and it probably sounds 873 01:01:50,329 --> 01:01:50,849 amazing. 874 01:01:50,849 --> 01:01:52,520 but it was great. 875 01:01:52,520 --> 01:01:53,518 The producer was great. 876 01:01:53,518 --> 01:01:56,771 It was just three or four days of just good fun. 877 01:01:56,771 --> 01:02:02,053 And they really included me part of like the gang and we would go out for lunch together and then dinner. 878 01:02:02,713 --> 01:02:05,133 Then I had to go back and do backups and all that. 879 01:02:05,133 --> 01:02:09,173 So think I slept in the studio for four or five days because they would start at 8 a.m. 880 01:02:09,173 --> 01:02:09,953 or 9 a.m. 881 01:02:09,953 --> 01:02:13,633 But everything needed to be, you know, turned on and warmed up two hours before. 882 01:02:13,633 --> 01:02:15,313 So it was just super fun. 883 01:02:15,313 --> 01:02:18,113 was like, yeah, this is why we're doing it. 884 01:02:18,113 --> 01:02:19,292 It was great. 885 01:02:19,342 --> 01:02:22,596 Yeah, a little trial by fire for you. 886 01:02:23,339 --> 01:02:25,782 Yeah, that's awesome. 887 01:02:25,782 --> 01:02:26,583 Yeah. 888 01:02:26,583 --> 01:02:30,029 So I would say that was like one of the big ones that I remember. 889 01:02:30,029 --> 01:02:33,513 There's been a couple more, but that was one of the big ones that, yeah. 890 01:02:34,414 --> 01:02:43,745 So I'm guessing if you were to give somebody advice, you'd say, know, say yes, go for it and just do your best. 891 01:02:43,745 --> 01:02:44,967 Work hard. 892 01:02:45,010 --> 01:02:46,051 go for it. 893 01:02:46,051 --> 01:02:50,012 And no matter what happens, you've said yes to the gig and finish it. 894 01:02:50,072 --> 01:02:51,613 No matter what happens. 895 01:02:51,833 --> 01:02:55,664 I mean, no matter what happens, but just finish it. 896 01:02:55,664 --> 01:02:56,285 You said yes. 897 01:02:56,285 --> 01:03:01,917 You know, there's limitations, but the world is very, the audio world is small. 898 01:03:01,917 --> 01:03:07,619 So it could be that you feel that something didn't go right. 899 01:03:07,940 --> 01:03:10,721 that the other person doesn't know and they might recommend you to somebody. 900 01:03:10,721 --> 01:03:11,769 So I would say 901 01:03:11,769 --> 01:03:15,849 Try it out the bird bridges, say yes, do it right. 902 01:03:15,969 --> 01:03:25,929 Um, and I do think it's 90 % luck, 10 % technique or talent, I would say. 903 01:03:26,049 --> 01:03:31,969 But I do feel that you can create as many chances as you can to be lucky. 904 01:03:31,969 --> 01:03:39,629 So if you say yes, you open up the opportunities to be lucky and then it's up to you to, you know, keep the game or move on forward. 905 01:03:39,629 --> 01:03:41,101 But the important thing is 906 01:03:41,101 --> 01:03:43,609 you've committed to it, then do it right. 907 01:03:43,609 --> 01:03:46,677 And then that should definitely help you. 908 01:03:47,892 --> 01:03:52,870 I think they say luck is where opportunity and preparation come together. 909 01:03:52,870 --> 01:03:56,045 So be ready and go for it. 910 01:03:56,122 --> 01:03:57,582 yeah, 100%. 911 01:03:57,582 --> 01:03:59,442 Yeah, 100%, yeah. 912 01:03:59,622 --> 01:04:07,153 It's definitely luck, but right place, right time, but you can create as many opportunities of that as possible, Yeah. 913 01:04:07,212 --> 01:04:08,777 It's an awesome story. 914 01:04:09,375 --> 01:04:10,786 Yeah, super fun. 915 01:04:10,786 --> 01:04:21,026 I we're kind of near our time, so I don't want to keep you too much longer, but we can send people to like zampolproductions.com. 916 01:04:21,673 --> 01:04:24,369 if you're in New York, hit me up. 917 01:04:24,369 --> 01:04:24,939 Let's hang. 918 01:04:24,939 --> 01:04:26,792 I'm always up for hanging. 919 01:04:26,949 --> 01:04:31,397 Yeah, I might have to drop by one day and see what's going on over there. 920 01:04:31,397 --> 01:04:32,698 I'm not too far from you. 921 01:04:32,698 --> 01:04:35,140 live room and we're doing a lot of Atmos. 922 01:04:35,140 --> 01:04:39,956 We have a nice Atmos setup, so both mixing and mastering. 923 01:04:39,956 --> 01:04:41,837 yeah, it's a cool little place. 924 01:04:41,837 --> 01:04:42,158 Yeah. 925 01:04:42,158 --> 01:04:45,259 um 926 01:04:45,259 --> 01:04:50,402 I wish you continued success and thanks so much for taking the time to talk. 927 01:04:50,402 --> 01:04:51,093 Yeah, for sure. 928 01:04:51,093 --> 01:04:51,936 Thanks for this. 929 01:04:51,936 --> 01:04:53,429 This was super fun. 930 01:04:53,624 --> 01:04:54,869 Yeah, absolutely. 931 01:04:54,869 --> 01:04:56,354 And thank you, listeners. 932 01:04:56,354 --> 01:04:58,098 We appreciate you being here. 933 01:04:58,125 --> 01:04:58,884 Yeah, thanks. 934 01:04:58,884 --> 01:04:59,662 Thanks everybody. 935 01:04:59,662 --> 01:05:00,689 uh 936 01:05:02,037 --> 01:05:03,260 Alrighty.