1 00:00:02,121 --> 00:00:07,278 Okay, Tom, welcome to the Music Production Podcast. 2 00:00:07,278 --> 00:00:08,440 Good to have you. 3 00:00:08,473 --> 00:00:09,537 Thanks for having me, Brian. 4 00:00:09,537 --> 00:00:11,211 Excited to be doing this today. 5 00:00:11,642 --> 00:00:13,166 Yeah, I'm excited to talk to you too. 6 00:00:13,166 --> 00:00:18,338 It's been nice to get to know you for a few minutes before we started and hearing about some of the work you're doing. 7 00:00:18,733 --> 00:00:25,056 Likewise, yeah, I'm a fan of the podcast, so I'm very honored to be asked to come on. 8 00:00:25,466 --> 00:00:26,539 Yeah, cool. 9 00:00:26,539 --> 00:00:32,573 I think I'd like to tell people exactly what you're doing right now, because I think that's pretty fun right now. 10 00:00:32,573 --> 00:00:34,256 You're not at home. 11 00:00:34,428 --> 00:00:35,739 No, I'm not at home. 12 00:00:35,739 --> 00:00:46,354 I was telling you before we hit the record button here, I'm slightly embarrassed having watched the other Brian Funk podcast to not have my cool synthesizer set up behind me like 13 00:00:46,354 --> 00:00:46,935 yourself. 14 00:00:46,935 --> 00:00:49,791 um I am in a hotel right now. 15 00:00:49,791 --> 00:00:55,333 I am on tour at the moment with my band. 16 00:00:56,580 --> 00:01:07,358 very exciting and it's um I think it's kind of a cool indication of like some of what you're doing because of course you've got the Soap Audio company with the voice cleaner 17 00:01:07,358 --> 00:01:18,225 plug-in that's doing really well playing in a band producing music on your own you're doing a lot of different things at once to make this all work I think that's how the dream 18 00:01:18,225 --> 00:01:25,090 works these days is we find lots of different avenues to pursue the music and the art and the love of it 19 00:01:25,421 --> 00:01:26,891 Yeah, certainly. 20 00:01:26,891 --> 00:01:34,654 And yeah, I can talk for a while about my, you the joy I grab from every little different angle of that. 21 00:01:34,654 --> 00:01:38,635 But specifically being on the road here, it's always a joy. 22 00:01:38,635 --> 00:01:46,377 We haven't, the band hasn't been on the road for about a year and a half now, and we're in about week three of this current tour. 23 00:01:46,377 --> 00:01:50,778 So starting to miss home a little bit, but we're about a week and a half out. 24 00:01:50,778 --> 00:01:51,974 So it'll be great. 25 00:01:51,974 --> 00:01:55,459 can go back home and hug all my microphones and... 26 00:01:55,459 --> 00:01:59,352 get back to a decent listening environment. 27 00:01:59,352 --> 00:02:02,059 playing on stage every night is its own joy. 28 00:02:02,896 --> 00:02:06,734 Yeah, and you guys are, you said an indie electronic three piece. 29 00:02:06,734 --> 00:02:07,541 m 30 00:02:07,541 --> 00:02:09,492 Indie electronic three piece. 31 00:02:09,492 --> 00:02:15,887 I said right before, yeah, uh don't want to sound too self congratulatory because this is not where we've achieved. 32 00:02:15,887 --> 00:02:23,642 But our North Star, as it were, of what we want to sound like is if the killers were to ever work with Daft Punk. 33 00:02:23,642 --> 00:02:30,346 So we've got the love for the classic drum machines and all the um Ed Banger stuff. 34 00:02:30,346 --> 00:02:33,108 If we would talk about like, Sebastian and Mr. 35 00:02:33,108 --> 00:02:37,411 Wazzo, Daft Punk, DJ Mehdi, Justice. 36 00:02:37,747 --> 00:02:52,044 Oofy, um all that kind of like 12-bit aliasing, way too side chains, limited as heck sounds mixed with some of those like alt-rock guitars and also um all three of us in the 37 00:02:52,044 --> 00:02:56,896 band are very big fans of pop music and well-written songs. 38 00:02:56,896 --> 00:03:03,558 We talk about, know, till the cows come home, you can have really experimental... 39 00:03:04,472 --> 00:03:08,666 groundbreaking sounds and mixtures that haven't been done. 40 00:03:08,666 --> 00:03:17,525 But to us, what really pushes it across the edge into fantastic is when you've got that great song that you're producing. 41 00:03:19,290 --> 00:03:21,963 Yeah, a song is usually the king. 42 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:23,963 I it doesn't matter how you dress it. 43 00:03:23,963 --> 00:03:25,838 A good song is a good song. 44 00:03:25,912 --> 00:03:27,874 Which is, I say is a knob-turner. 45 00:03:27,874 --> 00:03:35,103 So I'm not necessarily a lyricist, but that is, you know, king. 46 00:03:37,084 --> 00:03:44,868 So I want to ask you a little bit about how you guys work the band because I told you I play in a three piece garage rock band. 47 00:03:44,868 --> 00:03:51,071 I play the guitar and sing, bass player and he sings and drummer and he even sings sometimes too. 48 00:03:51,192 --> 00:03:53,563 And we have very defined roles, right? 49 00:03:53,563 --> 00:03:58,936 Now, anytime I've jammed with people electronically, I've got... 50 00:03:58,936 --> 00:04:11,373 Ableton live open and I can be everything right I can be the drummer I can be the lead synth I could be whatever I want and a lot of the You know beginning phases is total chaos 51 00:04:11,373 --> 00:04:20,098 because that's what everyone's doing everyone's used to doing everything so now we're working together Do you guys have defined roles that you play or is it a song by song? 52 00:04:20,098 --> 00:04:21,589 How do you manage? 53 00:04:21,949 --> 00:04:26,872 What are you guys doing because one person these days can easily take over? 54 00:04:26,976 --> 00:04:39,421 I mean, I will say one thing that we're proud of is that on this current rig that we're set up on, um we are using Ableton, but Ableton is only used as a uh brain for which we 55 00:04:39,421 --> 00:04:43,392 send out program changes and MIDI out to our external gear. 56 00:04:43,392 --> 00:04:46,703 So we aren't using Ableton for tracks or anything like that. 57 00:04:46,724 --> 00:04:52,006 What we have going is I am doing the bass and the rhythm. 58 00:04:52,006 --> 00:04:55,287 And then we've got Devin, who's doing more of the harmony. 59 00:04:55,463 --> 00:05:02,825 and some of the melody type stuff and we've got Jacob who is doing the lead vocal and some of the lead guitar work. 60 00:05:02,825 --> 00:05:19,270 we've got as far as uh gear on stage we've got a Moog Sub 37, an X DJ, a single X DJ, um the ones that are pretty much CDJs, and two MIDI controllers, an Axe FX 3 guitar 61 00:05:19,270 --> 00:05:23,993 processor, and the brain of our rig which is 62 00:05:23,993 --> 00:05:26,724 built around a MOTU Ultralight MK3. 63 00:05:27,204 --> 00:05:42,348 And to really nerd out on what's going on, we m are using a open source software called Beat Link Trigger that is hijacking some of the ethernet connections that would normally 64 00:05:42,348 --> 00:05:51,831 be used intra pioneer here to be able to share BPM and hot cue information and loop and all that stuff. 65 00:05:51,918 --> 00:05:54,489 between two Pioneer devices. 66 00:05:54,489 --> 00:06:04,931 These awesome people that are developing this tool called Beat Link Trigger have opened up the kind of walled garden that is Pioneer so that you can start using that. 67 00:06:04,931 --> 00:06:10,383 uh I mean, there's a lot of information there uh in various different ways. 68 00:06:10,383 --> 00:06:16,674 So now we've got Hot Cues on the XDJ being able to send us to Ableton Locators. 69 00:06:16,834 --> 00:06:19,915 We've got Ableton Link, which is... 70 00:06:20,873 --> 00:06:28,167 slave basically to the master tempo fader on the uh XDJ. 71 00:06:28,627 --> 00:06:34,751 So we're able to loop or speed songs up or slow sections down or anything like that. 72 00:06:34,751 --> 00:06:37,572 Keep things very jammy and very modular. 73 00:06:37,572 --> 00:06:47,458 And then um we've got Ableton interfacing with the Axe FX to send program changes for our guitars and whatnot. 74 00:06:47,458 --> 00:06:49,639 I'm also playing bass. 75 00:06:49,867 --> 00:06:52,467 on stage along with the Moog Sub-37. 76 00:06:52,467 --> 00:06:57,602 ah We've got Ableton Drum Rack set up for the SPD. 77 00:06:57,602 --> 00:07:08,398 We've got the MPKs for the different sounds that are either sampled or you you gotta keep the sense low overhead for live performance. 78 00:07:08,398 --> 00:07:13,782 ah Yeah, the setup is, it's a lot of fun. 79 00:07:13,782 --> 00:07:16,303 We've spent a long time dialing it in. 80 00:07:16,527 --> 00:07:26,920 And like you were saying, the organization of it is really so that we can do those things that we have struggled to do in the past when it's kind of been a guy doing tracks with an 81 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:30,071 APC-40 and then a guy playing guitar on top of that. 82 00:07:30,071 --> 00:07:31,742 And that's the jamming. 83 00:07:31,742 --> 00:07:33,782 Like maybe tonight we want to play the song faster. 84 00:07:33,782 --> 00:07:37,273 Maybe we want to loop this chorus five times. 85 00:07:37,714 --> 00:07:42,965 Maybe we want to do the end of the set, do that loop at Nazium, something like that. 86 00:07:44,342 --> 00:07:46,000 So you got some flexibility then. 87 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:50,330 You can actually just kind of communicate it with the other members, 88 00:07:50,763 --> 00:07:59,725 Yeah, yeah, it's much more, uh, it's a lot of people turning a lot of different knobs on stage and, and it's a lot of fun. 89 00:08:01,454 --> 00:08:02,375 Yeah, that sounds cool. 90 00:08:02,375 --> 00:08:11,480 It sounds pretty technical with especially like hijacking the pioneer stuff and being able to convert that in. 91 00:08:11,695 --> 00:08:15,727 definitely took some trial and error to get that going. 92 00:08:15,727 --> 00:08:19,870 um Again, the Beat Link Trigger team is awesome. 93 00:08:19,870 --> 00:08:31,458 If you've seen any videos, they're starting to go viral right now of like Deadmau5 using a CDJ to play Skyrim on like his Xbox. 94 00:08:31,458 --> 00:08:32,859 It's that same. 95 00:08:32,859 --> 00:08:33,920 It's silly. 96 00:08:33,920 --> 00:08:36,061 But you can use that. 97 00:08:36,061 --> 00:08:38,463 You can hijack the information. 98 00:08:39,119 --> 00:08:40,491 Pioneer Link information. 99 00:08:40,491 --> 00:08:43,184 And hijack sounds like a dirty word. 100 00:08:45,107 --> 00:08:48,631 It's really just taking that information and using it in a different purpose. 101 00:08:48,742 --> 00:08:49,532 Hmm. 102 00:08:50,133 --> 00:08:56,599 So that, but it's converting it into, guess, like a language everything else can understand. 103 00:08:56,608 --> 00:08:57,891 Yeah, totally. 104 00:08:58,016 --> 00:08:59,862 Kind of intro program. 105 00:09:00,612 --> 00:09:06,814 I have to imagine this did not happen like that the first time you guys got together. 106 00:09:07,955 --> 00:09:19,660 Even when I play by myself with my MIDI controllers in Ableton, Live, and whatever, it's like this living organism that is always changing. 107 00:09:20,015 --> 00:09:20,871 Yeah. 108 00:09:21,361 --> 00:09:29,004 hearing something like that might be a little intimidating maybe for somebody that's thinking about getting into it, but it's one of the things I always say is like, just 109 00:09:29,004 --> 00:09:30,815 start as simple as possible. 110 00:09:30,815 --> 00:09:35,888 I'm kind of curious where you guys began with it. 111 00:09:36,077 --> 00:09:40,030 Yeah, well, we always wanted, so we've been a band for about 10 years now. 112 00:09:40,071 --> 00:09:42,633 And the name of the band is Moon Tower. 113 00:09:42,633 --> 00:09:48,758 And we started off, it's like that Linklater movie, Dazed and Confused. 114 00:09:48,979 --> 00:09:53,342 We were college kids, they say at the end of the movie, party at the Moon Tower. 115 00:09:53,363 --> 00:09:56,746 And we wanted to throw these Moon Tower parties. 116 00:09:56,746 --> 00:10:00,529 were at USC, were dumb college kids. 117 00:10:00,750 --> 00:10:02,391 And we... 118 00:10:02,607 --> 00:10:07,367 weren't worried about releasing music or trying to promote music or anything like that. 119 00:10:07,367 --> 00:10:17,087 We just moreover wanted to put on an awesome electronic show, sync up lights with it, and do things, you know, interestingly. 120 00:10:17,887 --> 00:10:21,887 And I was an Ableton nerd and also a lighting nerd and something like that. 121 00:10:21,887 --> 00:10:27,267 But when we started, it was as simple as I had in APC 40. 122 00:10:27,267 --> 00:10:29,667 We knew that we wanted to get some guitars going. 123 00:10:29,667 --> 00:10:32,174 So we kind of just got a four on the floor. 124 00:10:32,174 --> 00:10:38,978 uh a microphone, a couple guitars and started jamming together before we knew it. 125 00:10:38,978 --> 00:10:44,842 We started building out songs and put that show together. 126 00:10:44,842 --> 00:10:48,094 Moreover, to say, what's the best show we can do? 127 00:10:48,094 --> 00:10:52,407 What's the best jam that we can really get out of this moment? 128 00:10:52,407 --> 00:11:00,161 Not as much focused on what's going to be the best thing to drive Spotify or the best way to represent this album that's finished. 129 00:11:00,183 --> 00:11:03,308 It was more about the love of the live performance at the get-go. 130 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:05,541 That's cool. 131 00:11:05,541 --> 00:11:12,147 And that speaks to what you can do with electronic based music these days. 132 00:11:12,147 --> 00:11:22,016 Cause it, I think, you know, for the most part, it's been like, we've recorded the song, we've produced the song, and now we have to figure out how to get it into the live 133 00:11:22,016 --> 00:11:23,157 situation. 134 00:11:23,157 --> 00:11:31,504 But you guys are jamming, writing the song more like a real band does, like a normal like rock kind of thing. 135 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:35,090 you play it out for a while then maybe you might go back to record it. 136 00:11:35,321 --> 00:11:40,413 Certainly, and I mean the music came out and then we played again in the way. 137 00:11:42,615 --> 00:11:47,517 So there is that, you do want to get on a train at a certain point in time. 138 00:11:47,598 --> 00:11:52,100 But um yeah, I think the ethos of it has always been live-centric. 139 00:11:52,100 --> 00:11:55,242 I'm excited about what we're doing right now on this tour. 140 00:11:55,242 --> 00:11:58,924 We're playing our album that has yet to come out. 141 00:11:58,924 --> 00:12:04,577 um It's locked and playing that in full every night. 142 00:12:04,683 --> 00:12:15,569 So doing a little bit more like we did in college where it was, um you don't necessarily know the music if you're coming to the show, if you happen to be a fan, you may not hear 143 00:12:15,569 --> 00:12:21,052 exactly the stuff you've heard in the past, but it lets us all kind of live in the moment a little bit more. 144 00:12:21,052 --> 00:12:23,593 And it's been really rewarding. 145 00:12:23,593 --> 00:12:26,955 We couldn't be prouder of this new album. 146 00:12:27,804 --> 00:12:31,067 So it's getting the real treatment in front of a crowd. 147 00:12:36,072 --> 00:12:37,604 Yeah, that sounds like a great time. 148 00:12:37,604 --> 00:12:47,364 I'm just so happy these days we can do that, that kind of stuff and really play these instruments like instruments. 149 00:12:47,364 --> 00:12:51,708 Like we can actually make this kind of music without it having to be. 150 00:12:52,108 --> 00:12:56,767 so rigid and kind of maybe, you know, like just pressing play and we're going. 151 00:12:56,767 --> 00:12:58,132 um 152 00:12:58,132 --> 00:12:58,702 certainly. 153 00:12:58,702 --> 00:13:07,019 And I mean, that's the way, even when we're not on stage in the studio, that I think we prefer to think about music creation. 154 00:13:07,019 --> 00:13:20,320 uh Be it, have uh a song that was written on acoustic guitar and now we want to produce it out, or we have kind of a loop or a jam or something like that going more in the box and 155 00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:21,871 we want to write to that. 156 00:13:21,871 --> 00:13:26,434 I the idea is that we want to be more of gardeners rather than... 157 00:13:26,959 --> 00:13:28,899 Let's stay rigid here. 158 00:13:29,599 --> 00:13:31,299 It's a... 159 00:13:31,299 --> 00:13:41,679 And then afterward, we do end up, you know, doing the subtraction process to try and whittle down what was sometimes a long thing or sometimes bloated into, like I was saying, 160 00:13:41,839 --> 00:13:44,699 the most well-written song inside of that. 161 00:13:45,239 --> 00:13:54,479 And I have to shout out Devon Walsh and Jacob Berger, my two other band members who are invaluable members of the creation process. 162 00:13:54,479 --> 00:13:55,865 It's all three of us in all of 163 00:13:55,865 --> 00:13:57,366 the Moon Tower stuff. 164 00:13:58,521 --> 00:14:06,813 Well, playing together 10 years, I mean, I could tell you from experience how hard it is to keep a band together for a bazillion reasons. 165 00:14:06,813 --> 00:14:11,565 um So to be able to do that definitely speaks to the bond. 166 00:14:11,565 --> 00:14:13,366 playing together and we've been living together. 167 00:14:13,366 --> 00:14:15,780 were roommates for about 10 years now. 168 00:14:15,780 --> 00:14:19,874 So we're closer to an old married couple than we are a band. 169 00:14:19,935 --> 00:14:22,217 I guess an old married throuple. 170 00:14:23,439 --> 00:14:23,849 Yeah. 171 00:14:23,849 --> 00:14:28,542 I guess that's nice when it's time to rehearse and practice and work things out. 172 00:14:28,602 --> 00:14:29,439 Like, what are you doing? 173 00:14:29,439 --> 00:14:30,319 You're just watching TV? 174 00:14:30,319 --> 00:14:31,776 All right, come on. 175 00:14:32,152 --> 00:14:34,154 I mean, yeah, we don't have a living room. 176 00:14:34,154 --> 00:14:36,176 have a studio. 177 00:14:36,537 --> 00:14:39,113 yeah, totally. 178 00:14:39,113 --> 00:14:42,174 You use the same term, gardener. 179 00:14:42,174 --> 00:14:44,054 That's how I would think about it. 180 00:14:44,215 --> 00:14:54,377 The way I had my electronic setup going was I'm like playing these ideas and songs and it's not so much like I have to really write them. 181 00:14:54,377 --> 00:15:02,740 I can just play them and nurture them and kind of, you know, trim the little outgrowths here and there and let things blossom naturally. 182 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:11,946 And I mean, now with modern DAWs and whatnot, we have such an ability to achieve perfection. 183 00:15:11,946 --> 00:15:13,587 And I do love music. 184 00:15:13,587 --> 00:15:20,752 I mean, I listen to a lot of industrial stuff that's very jagged edges and it can be almost abrasive in how perfect it is. 185 00:15:20,752 --> 00:15:21,413 And that's great. 186 00:15:21,413 --> 00:15:30,659 But also so much of the music that I return to year after year and I think a lot of people return to is loved because it was 187 00:15:30,701 --> 00:15:39,627 capturing of a moment and it was kind of garden that wasn't it wasn't perfected to the point of inhumanity 188 00:15:39,940 --> 00:15:42,202 Yeah, I agree. 189 00:15:42,202 --> 00:15:47,346 think that's interesting stuff and you can bring you back to listen again. 190 00:15:47,346 --> 00:15:49,267 how'd you hear how that went that way? 191 00:15:49,267 --> 00:15:50,020 that's funny. 192 00:15:50,020 --> 00:15:50,803 certainly. 193 00:15:50,803 --> 00:15:53,329 What's your favorite type of music to listen to, 194 00:15:54,666 --> 00:15:56,790 man, that's tough. 195 00:15:56,790 --> 00:15:58,542 It depends on the mood, I guess. 196 00:15:58,603 --> 00:16:02,598 I know, when someone asks that question you forget every band you've ever listened to. 197 00:16:03,583 --> 00:16:04,080 Yeah. 198 00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:18,040 guess I'm probably most grounded in like the stuff I grew up in, like rock, know, alternative rock and 60s rock and things like that, 90s, 60s. 199 00:16:18,260 --> 00:16:25,347 um, but as I've gotten older, I've gotten a lot more into like technology and 200 00:16:25,347 --> 00:16:25,720 Yeah. 201 00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:27,871 synthesizers, drum machines and stuff. 202 00:16:27,871 --> 00:16:31,482 Stuff that I thought as a teenager was like so uncool. 203 00:16:31,682 --> 00:16:38,063 But I think in the nineties it was kind of uncool in a lot of ways. 204 00:16:38,464 --> 00:16:45,065 Maybe like you like nine inch nails or something, but everything else that used a synth was kind of corny by then. 205 00:16:45,065 --> 00:16:47,886 I guess the eighties sort of did that to it. 206 00:16:49,407 --> 00:16:53,888 But it wasn't long before I started to realize like a lot of the music I like has that stuff in it. 207 00:16:53,888 --> 00:16:55,120 Even though I 208 00:16:55,384 --> 00:16:58,735 I I don't like drum machines or I think I don't like synthesizers. 209 00:16:58,735 --> 00:17:03,772 I'm like, that's a synthesizer right there that I thought was like a guitar or something. 210 00:17:03,772 --> 00:17:11,547 You know, that kind of the way you are as a kid, you put these like lines in the sand for no reason other than just to have an identity. 211 00:17:11,547 --> 00:17:13,215 Yeah, of course. 212 00:17:13,215 --> 00:17:15,518 Yeah, you gotta be rock and roll with it. 213 00:17:15,820 --> 00:17:19,957 I think I've the same ilk for a long, long time. 214 00:17:20,758 --> 00:17:27,693 Yeah, that's, that leads me to now where I, I kind of never know where I'm going to go the next time I make something. 215 00:17:27,693 --> 00:17:40,094 And that's, it's a lot of fun that way, but therein also lies the issue too, because when I was younger, just playing very specific kind of music, that's so many decisions were 216 00:17:40,094 --> 00:17:41,835 already ruled out. 217 00:17:41,835 --> 00:17:44,157 It was like, I'm going to play my electric guitar. 218 00:17:44,157 --> 00:17:47,676 It's going to be loud and it's going to be quiet and loud and 219 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:59,352 That was it, but now when it's like, I can make like a spacey ambient thing, uh or I can make like acoustic singer songwriter, you know, sometimes that's paralyzing. 220 00:17:59,744 --> 00:18:02,125 It is daunting sometimes. 221 00:18:02,125 --> 00:18:08,168 I mean, it's daunting on both sides having two stricks of a walled garden in which to create. 222 00:18:08,168 --> 00:18:22,566 it can be, I think I agree with you, even more paralyzing when you have the entirety of every sound ever recorded and you've got every mode of synthesis to create anything in 223 00:18:22,566 --> 00:18:28,159 your brain to find out, am I going to do here? 224 00:18:29,412 --> 00:18:30,312 Right. 225 00:18:30,693 --> 00:18:33,855 One of my favorite, probably my favorite band is the Beatles. 226 00:18:33,955 --> 00:18:45,573 And I think about them and how much they experimented and all these things they tried, but they were sort of exposed to it little by little, I think, you know, looking back, they 227 00:18:45,573 --> 00:18:49,486 even talk about chords, like, somebody knows this chords. 228 00:18:49,486 --> 00:18:52,447 We took the bus over across town and learn it. 229 00:18:54,569 --> 00:18:57,471 but we now we get everything at once. 230 00:18:57,471 --> 00:18:58,736 You know, if you 231 00:18:58,736 --> 00:19:03,161 Download any DAW, you've got everything. 232 00:19:03,161 --> 00:19:05,993 So it's like, where do I start? 233 00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:12,183 with the Beatles, the history of the Beatles is the history of music technology in lot of ways. 234 00:19:12,224 --> 00:19:15,946 They didn't have a lot of the, a lot of the tools that we rely upon. 235 00:19:15,946 --> 00:19:25,771 mean, pre DSP, when we're just talking about signal processing in general, it was invented for the Beatles, you know, for a specific use case. 236 00:19:25,771 --> 00:19:32,655 Uh, I think the story on the, on the ADT, the automatic double tracker was 237 00:19:32,727 --> 00:19:48,558 John Lennon didn't want to record a double of his own voice, so they had to invent a style of tape modulation to be able to emulate that and be it new types of saturation or double 238 00:19:48,558 --> 00:19:53,731 tracking or um ways of recreating sounds. 239 00:19:53,731 --> 00:20:02,467 It's so fun to go through the Beatles discography and I find it so inspiring every time because it's the history of the tools. 240 00:20:04,057 --> 00:20:14,544 Yeah, and a lot of those new tools when they came out they were like, let's give them to the Beatles like Bob Mogue is showing up with synthesizers and uh Fenders got some new 241 00:20:14,544 --> 00:20:14,864 stuff. 242 00:20:14,864 --> 00:20:24,510 They just send it to the Beatles and let's see what they do and Yeah, they've uh, we got it all at once 243 00:20:24,975 --> 00:20:25,936 We got it all at once. 244 00:20:25,936 --> 00:20:28,019 It's daunting. 245 00:20:28,019 --> 00:20:31,322 yeah, it's a lot trying to deal with of that. 246 00:20:33,532 --> 00:20:35,552 Not complaining though, I love it. 247 00:20:35,552 --> 00:20:37,252 It's such a great time. 248 00:20:37,252 --> 00:20:45,452 I do feel thankful though that I, when I grew up, like I was a teenager in the nineties and I had a four track cassette recorder. 249 00:20:45,452 --> 00:20:48,052 That was like a big deal when I got that thing. 250 00:20:48,052 --> 00:20:51,532 And all I had was a mic and a guitar though, you know? 251 00:20:51,532 --> 00:20:58,232 So it was so limiting, but still felt like the whole universe opened up because now I can layer tracks. 252 00:20:58,232 --> 00:20:59,212 Wow. 253 00:20:59,683 --> 00:21:00,743 Certainly. 254 00:21:01,024 --> 00:21:14,652 mean, and then you advance all the way through to modern technology and we've got the best recreation that we can possibly achieve right now um of these digitized sounds. 255 00:21:14,793 --> 00:21:24,079 And then I go back, like on this most recent record, uh all of the individual stems, um kind of bar none, I... 256 00:21:24,079 --> 00:21:35,559 put through what you're saying, like a Tascam 246 6-track recorder from 1984, just so can get like a little bit of that saturation or that sound. 257 00:21:37,419 --> 00:21:43,479 Yeah, degradation, just a little bit of something in that imperfection. 258 00:21:43,526 --> 00:21:46,747 Did you run them onto the tape or just through the electronics? 259 00:21:47,312 --> 00:21:48,228 Yeah, cool. 260 00:21:48,228 --> 00:21:49,908 Yeah, yeah. 261 00:21:49,908 --> 00:21:55,051 Yeah, onto the tape and played it back and whatnot and got to get a little bit wobbly with the... 262 00:21:55,112 --> 00:22:01,176 That specific model has a really nice sounding pitch up and down. 263 00:22:01,176 --> 00:22:03,277 Yeah, it's fun. 264 00:22:03,277 --> 00:22:07,829 It's a very uh sound, like, in sound right now. 265 00:22:07,829 --> 00:22:09,060 I feel like that. 266 00:22:09,260 --> 00:22:12,042 Taskam saturation's very in vogue. 267 00:22:12,042 --> 00:22:13,143 So I bought it... 268 00:22:13,143 --> 00:22:14,199 um 269 00:22:14,199 --> 00:22:22,627 off Craig's lists and restored it and what not just to see what all the fuss was about and sure as heck it sounds pretty great. 270 00:22:22,627 --> 00:22:27,250 Those transformers and everything are really awesome. 271 00:22:27,996 --> 00:22:30,716 Yeah, I'm a big fan of that kind of stuff. 272 00:22:30,976 --> 00:22:41,456 I have a Tascam 388, which is an eight track, which I absolutely love, but also is temperamental. 273 00:22:41,776 --> 00:22:46,456 I mean, some days it's just making so much noise and I have no idea why. 274 00:22:46,456 --> 00:22:48,552 And then the next day... 275 00:22:48,552 --> 00:23:04,897 one of the reasons why I had to do individual stems on a lot of the stuff, I mean I would send buses, but two of the six tracks on my 246 pretty much gave out and I got in there 276 00:23:04,897 --> 00:23:07,167 with a multimeter and tried to solder it back to life. 277 00:23:07,167 --> 00:23:13,261 I'm not sure exactly, I will get back, I will get to the bottom of it once I get back from tour here, but... 278 00:23:13,261 --> 00:23:17,878 Yeah, I'm using like channel 1 as L and channel 4 as R. 279 00:23:17,878 --> 00:23:22,704 And it's just a, it's a six track machine, but it might as well be a stereo warmer. 280 00:23:23,747 --> 00:23:24,213 Yeah. 281 00:23:24,213 --> 00:23:24,933 I hear you. 282 00:23:24,933 --> 00:23:26,193 I've done the same thing with mine. 283 00:23:26,193 --> 00:23:30,235 Like, I don't know what's wrong with track one, but let's just skip it. 284 00:23:30,535 --> 00:23:31,435 Yep. 285 00:23:32,376 --> 00:23:36,958 But yeah, sometimes it is just nice to have the plugins because they don't do that. 286 00:23:36,958 --> 00:23:40,405 eh And if they do, it's a feature, you know? 287 00:23:40,405 --> 00:23:41,116 is. 288 00:23:41,116 --> 00:23:41,527 It is. 289 00:23:41,527 --> 00:23:56,894 mean, lot of my favorite, a lot of my go-to plugins these days are the ones like SketchCassette, where you've got some of that emulation of those, yeah, dropouts and that, 290 00:23:58,216 --> 00:24:01,099 yeah, algorithmic imperfection. 291 00:24:02,106 --> 00:24:05,158 That's a really cool one also just visually too. 292 00:24:05,158 --> 00:24:09,161 I just love the look, just penciled kind of thing. 293 00:24:10,282 --> 00:24:13,704 Yeah, they've got a bunch of them I like a lot. 294 00:24:14,465 --> 00:24:23,191 One of them makes you sound like an MP3 kind of, which I can't believe I've, it might be lossy, something like that. 295 00:24:24,213 --> 00:24:27,215 I'm not sure, it's aberrant though. 296 00:24:27,215 --> 00:24:28,596 It has like, 297 00:24:28,848 --> 00:24:30,712 you can kind of like draw on it. 298 00:24:30,712 --> 00:24:32,180 ah 299 00:24:32,180 --> 00:24:32,612 Okay. 300 00:24:32,612 --> 00:24:34,950 ah 301 00:24:34,950 --> 00:24:46,446 it sound like I can't believe I want this sound ever because when like in the early 2000s when you were getting these like harsh digital sounds you're like, ugh, like what is this? 302 00:24:46,446 --> 00:24:50,648 But now it's just kind of fun to throw in there once in a while. 303 00:24:51,001 --> 00:24:51,811 certainly. 304 00:24:51,811 --> 00:24:53,812 Yeah, no, we've come all the way, haven't we? 305 00:24:53,812 --> 00:25:04,857 I got an Instagram ad saying, like, recreate that classic sound of, like, bad A to D conversion from Pro Tools 2. 306 00:25:04,857 --> 00:25:10,579 It's like, all right, we're now, yeah, getting digital recreations of digital. 307 00:25:10,579 --> 00:25:13,160 ah It's funny. 308 00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:16,542 Maybe it's, I Googled it, maybe it's uh Digital-less? 309 00:25:16,962 --> 00:25:18,082 Nonetheless. 310 00:25:18,963 --> 00:25:19,732 Yeah. 311 00:25:19,732 --> 00:25:21,477 I have like two or three of them. 312 00:25:21,477 --> 00:25:22,731 I really like their stuff. 313 00:25:22,731 --> 00:25:24,260 um 314 00:25:24,260 --> 00:25:26,283 a big fan of all the aberrant stuff. 315 00:25:27,145 --> 00:25:30,784 Also, D16 Plugging Group is one of my favorite ones these days. 316 00:25:30,784 --> 00:25:33,132 yeah, they those nice drum machines. 317 00:25:34,262 --> 00:25:35,103 Yeah. 318 00:25:35,382 --> 00:25:37,513 their rate reduction, think it's... 319 00:25:37,513 --> 00:25:40,495 um shoot, what's it called? 320 00:25:42,396 --> 00:25:54,863 The rate reduction from D16, Decimort 2, has some of the best saturation and just really pleasant aliasing to me. 321 00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:58,801 DigiTales, that's the aberrant one I'm talking about. 322 00:25:58,801 --> 00:26:00,002 DigiTales. 323 00:26:00,002 --> 00:26:02,663 Mm-hmm. 324 00:26:03,564 --> 00:26:04,060 Yeah. 325 00:26:04,060 --> 00:26:10,876 If you want to sound like garbagey digital from the early 2000s, that's your best bet. 326 00:26:10,876 --> 00:26:11,756 was cracking me up. 327 00:26:11,756 --> 00:26:25,652 Yeah, it's like if you don't, yeah, if you want a bad representation of your dynamic range and at the same time, I mean, that was one of the things I came to learn when I was a kid. 328 00:26:25,652 --> 00:26:35,596 As much as I really loved that, you know, the Daft Punk music and the French touch and the stuff that went around with that, you learn those were born out of necessity from the 329 00:26:35,596 --> 00:26:37,167 hardware tools at the time. 330 00:26:37,167 --> 00:26:49,787 You've got the SB 1200 and people would sample the, uh, they would, they would speed up the record player play, play stuff unnecessarily fast and, uh, slow it back down inside of 331 00:26:49,787 --> 00:26:53,807 the box to expand that 10 second sampling time on floppy disk. 332 00:26:53,807 --> 00:26:57,147 And then you'd have aliasing built into the sound. 333 00:26:57,187 --> 00:27:06,107 that like both the, the sound of the aliasing and the 12 bit dynamic range of the SB 1200 is kind of the sound of French house. 334 00:27:06,107 --> 00:27:07,119 And then. 335 00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:13,699 You just put the kick too loud, you get an Alesis 3630, which probably costs, you know, 42 bucks. 336 00:27:13,699 --> 00:27:15,124 I've got a few. 337 00:27:15,124 --> 00:27:18,184 since I bought it off eBay in like 2000. 338 00:27:18,184 --> 00:27:21,632 It was like already getting thrown out. 339 00:27:21,632 --> 00:27:25,338 it's no longer called the same website, is it called Gearheads now? 340 00:27:25,338 --> 00:27:33,639 Yeah, Gearheads is calling it the, one of the more affordable door stops you can get is the 3688. 341 00:27:34,418 --> 00:27:35,839 It's not great. 342 00:27:37,483 --> 00:27:38,865 But it's got something. 343 00:27:38,865 --> 00:27:40,366 It definitely does. 344 00:27:41,091 --> 00:27:47,493 When you want to do that pumped out, you listen to mixes sometimes on... 345 00:27:47,493 --> 00:27:49,914 I'm just harking on French house for some reason today. 346 00:27:49,914 --> 00:27:55,845 But you listen to some of those mixes and they aren't great mixes in the technical sense. 347 00:27:55,845 --> 00:27:58,096 They don't have great frequency range. 348 00:27:58,096 --> 00:27:59,967 They don't have a great representation. 349 00:27:59,967 --> 00:28:01,617 They're pretty thin. 350 00:28:01,617 --> 00:28:06,358 um But they have that thing. 351 00:28:10,019 --> 00:28:19,853 Those guys found the thing and I think a lot of the time what I think my fellow music makers and myself are looking for is that thing of the moment. 352 00:28:19,853 --> 00:28:24,045 And it takes so much discovering and digging to find that thing. 353 00:28:24,045 --> 00:28:30,468 um A slam 3630 with a kick drum going too loud so it pumps can be a thing. 354 00:28:30,468 --> 00:28:33,619 Or like the strokes thing where you do the is this it? 355 00:28:33,619 --> 00:28:38,111 Let me put up two microphones and get the sound of the room and... 356 00:28:38,497 --> 00:28:48,664 have it sound terrible but it sounds like the time that can be the thing um or you can go the Quincy Jones route and you get the most beautiful recording, the best, most perfect 357 00:28:48,664 --> 00:29:00,472 mix and that could be the thing but yeah finding an identity inside of the mix inside your music production style is something I'm always looking for and I'm looking for uh tools 358 00:29:00,472 --> 00:29:02,153 that can help me do that 359 00:29:03,364 --> 00:29:11,327 Yeah, having a vibe, a feel, uh atmosphere is I think more important than anything. 360 00:29:11,327 --> 00:29:23,612 um Because you can clean something up that doesn't have it and it just sounds distant or sterile or something. 361 00:29:24,398 --> 00:29:33,533 I think sometimes I think a lot of times when you just throw ideas at the wall and going with it, maybe it's because you're not thinking too hard. 362 00:29:33,533 --> 00:29:35,895 You're not trying to get everything perfect. 363 00:29:35,895 --> 00:29:38,796 You're just reacting to the last thing you did. 364 00:29:39,128 --> 00:29:47,962 It sometimes comes together almost easier where if you try to purposely do this stuff, it can be, it can be too calculated. 365 00:29:47,962 --> 00:29:52,048 And then it doesn't have the energy or the. 366 00:29:52,236 --> 00:29:55,042 Whatever that magic touch is 367 00:29:55,049 --> 00:30:00,953 the gardening thing where you see what grows and then you find the beauty inside of it. 368 00:30:01,874 --> 00:30:14,983 you are trying to, think um Eno has one of his cards for Oblique Strategies is um shoot the arrow, the target around it. 369 00:30:15,164 --> 00:30:20,257 And I love that when it comes to kind of music production in general. 370 00:30:20,768 --> 00:30:21,748 Yeah. 371 00:30:21,748 --> 00:30:27,908 Well, I think a big thing we spend too much time doing is aiming the arrow and then never shooting it. 372 00:30:27,926 --> 00:30:34,418 getting frustrated when you shoot the arrow at a target and it hits somewhere else and not appreciating it. 373 00:30:34,418 --> 00:30:40,500 At least the problem I run into, not painting with a broad brush here, is not appreciating it for what it is. 374 00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:47,942 If I heard that thing in my head trying to separate that thing that I was hearing from what's actually there. 375 00:30:49,003 --> 00:30:49,863 Yeah. 376 00:30:50,393 --> 00:30:56,016 Yeah, I read a really great book on this called, um, why greatness cannot be planned. 377 00:30:56,097 --> 00:30:58,257 The myth of the objective. 378 00:30:58,498 --> 00:31:01,220 And it comes from like an AI background. 379 00:31:01,220 --> 00:31:04,581 So they're talking about their AI programmers. 380 00:31:04,742 --> 00:31:09,664 And I think it's even already like a bit old, like 2016 or something like that. 381 00:31:10,045 --> 00:31:15,968 But they talk about how when you are purposely trying to get someplace that's. 382 00:31:16,278 --> 00:31:19,811 often prevents you from getting someplace new and interesting. 383 00:31:19,831 --> 00:31:28,438 So when you're just shooting the arrow and painting the target around it, you've reached a spot you wouldn't have come to before. 384 00:31:28,438 --> 00:31:37,405 And now you will see new steps after that, that you wouldn't have seen if you were just trying to get to, you know, whatever point B was. 385 00:31:37,626 --> 00:31:42,310 Where there's a place you've already been and you already know what's going to happen. 386 00:31:42,310 --> 00:31:44,794 But when you get to that novel place. 387 00:31:44,794 --> 00:31:49,134 Now you're able to see it the next novel place a step away from that. 388 00:31:49,134 --> 00:31:52,850 And you kind of keep following these little stepping stones. 389 00:31:52,850 --> 00:31:54,451 Yeah, totally. 390 00:31:54,451 --> 00:31:55,911 I love that. 391 00:31:55,911 --> 00:32:00,611 I think I've heard it said, I mean, we're both just repeating ways we've heard it said. 392 00:32:01,611 --> 00:32:13,271 Someone, I forget where, it was on a podcast, it might have been the Lex Threadman, talking, someone was speaking to chasing excitement without expectation. 393 00:32:13,431 --> 00:32:19,651 And at any given moment, choosing the route whenever you're given a choice in life or in creation. 394 00:32:20,929 --> 00:32:27,881 choose whatever option offers even marginally more excitement to you. 395 00:32:27,902 --> 00:32:41,886 And if you are to do that without expectation and do that nobly, I think he was saying, then you can experience becoming, as Vonnegut says, experience becoming. 396 00:32:43,147 --> 00:32:43,734 Yeah. 397 00:32:43,734 --> 00:32:46,025 it's a very similar concept to that book, actually. 398 00:32:46,025 --> 00:32:55,918 And it's helped me a lot with making music because now it's just like, let's and I don't mean like, let's see what happens. 399 00:32:55,918 --> 00:32:57,638 Like I don't have any direction. 400 00:32:57,638 --> 00:33:00,809 It's more like let's work with what happened. 401 00:33:00,809 --> 00:33:03,460 Maybe is a better way to put it like, we're here now. 402 00:33:03,460 --> 00:33:08,178 OK, now what can we do with that instead of, oh, man, I don't want to be here. 403 00:33:08,178 --> 00:33:09,692 I wanted to be there. 404 00:33:10,126 --> 00:33:12,701 And then it's frustrating. 405 00:33:12,799 --> 00:33:14,623 It certainly can be. 406 00:33:14,623 --> 00:33:19,746 But there's so much beauty in it when you allow there to be. 407 00:33:20,730 --> 00:33:32,234 Yup, yeah, and between that and just trying to see what I'm doing is more like a body of work or like breadcrumbs I'm leaving along the way instead of like, this must be my 408 00:33:32,234 --> 00:33:33,765 masterpiece now. 409 00:33:35,906 --> 00:33:38,846 don't think I've ever made anything good with that mindset. 410 00:33:39,287 --> 00:33:41,242 Now I will make a masterpiece. 411 00:33:41,242 --> 00:33:43,174 Yeah, it's really difficult. 412 00:33:43,174 --> 00:33:51,374 When you decide before it's your masterpiece that it will be your masterpiece, it almost becomes a self-fulfilling, what do you say, opposite of prophecy. 413 00:33:51,374 --> 00:33:52,355 Yeah. 414 00:33:52,636 --> 00:33:53,596 Yeah. 415 00:33:54,658 --> 00:33:55,519 Yeah. 416 00:33:57,390 --> 00:34:11,893 So I'm curious now, if you choose, you know, this is we're talking like music creating, producing, but you're also in the DSP world of programming and creating tools now. 417 00:34:13,615 --> 00:34:16,218 I guess I'm wondering if there's, are there parallels? 418 00:34:16,218 --> 00:34:17,429 Are they different things? 419 00:34:17,429 --> 00:34:23,264 Because maybe this is a little more, I guess when I think of programming, think very. 420 00:34:23,702 --> 00:34:27,228 logic based and numbers and 421 00:34:27,733 --> 00:34:28,228 It is. 422 00:34:28,228 --> 00:34:30,183 um 423 00:34:32,075 --> 00:34:44,875 I came to the want to get down to the bottom of DSP and learn programming from a love of music creation. 424 00:34:44,875 --> 00:34:47,695 I was always fascinated. 425 00:34:47,695 --> 00:34:50,590 I think it goes back to my dad took me to my first concert. 426 00:34:50,590 --> 00:34:52,071 It was Rush. 427 00:34:52,155 --> 00:34:57,138 And Geddy Lee had all of those, you know, he's got the moogs on stage and whatnot. 428 00:34:57,138 --> 00:35:02,021 And he's turning knobs and you watch the studio footage of them and whatnot. 429 00:35:02,141 --> 00:35:07,304 And I was always fascinated by what the knob does. 430 00:35:07,304 --> 00:35:16,882 Why, when you turn that knob, it, if you turn that, it now sounds darker or it sounds this and that and the other. 431 00:35:16,882 --> 00:35:18,351 And now at this point... 432 00:35:18,351 --> 00:35:30,511 I know that's the cutoff on a low pass filter and that's the resonance underneath it and we use those to be able to shape with subtractive synthesis what's going on on the Moog. 433 00:35:30,831 --> 00:35:47,245 But I really probably about six years ago started asking the question of well why does that do that when it comes to audio plugins and come to DAW digital audio 434 00:35:47,245 --> 00:35:52,938 workstation uh work when we've when we've digitized what is a signal. 435 00:35:52,938 --> 00:35:56,440 uh What is that? 436 00:35:56,440 --> 00:35:57,021 What is that? 437 00:35:57,021 --> 00:36:04,044 That was that was a real thing that was uh pressure coming out of the air and frequency and amplitude. 438 00:36:04,185 --> 00:36:07,507 And uh what what happens then? 439 00:36:07,507 --> 00:36:15,469 Why why does that knob inside of the computer make it come back out of my speakers different? 440 00:36:15,469 --> 00:36:18,580 when it's translated back into something that my ears are hearing. 441 00:36:18,580 --> 00:36:24,742 uh So it came from, I think, an innate curiosity. 442 00:36:24,742 --> 00:36:33,515 And that led me down the uh path of trying to figure out, well, the best way to learn is probably to do, in my opinion. 443 00:36:33,515 --> 00:36:39,006 So I started getting into really elementary uh juice development. 444 00:36:39,006 --> 00:36:41,517 And juice is a framework. 445 00:36:41,655 --> 00:36:53,599 that is amazing and they've got a uh really amazing set of tutorials online and there's a lot of great classes and people and I started checking out textbooks from our local 446 00:36:53,599 --> 00:37:03,161 library on what is kind of digital signal processing for audio applications. 447 00:37:03,722 --> 00:37:08,763 And the more I got into it, the more I found this is, is, I'm. 448 00:37:08,857 --> 00:37:14,909 deriving as much joy from creating the knob that is to be turned as I am from turning the knob. 449 00:37:14,909 --> 00:37:24,513 ah So it came from a very similar place of creation and it still offers me the same joy of creation. 450 00:37:25,014 --> 00:37:37,839 It is more binary in that uh I would say if I have a piece of modular gear and I am 451 00:37:37,839 --> 00:37:42,222 plugging in wires in different places, I might end up with a beautiful mess. 452 00:37:44,765 --> 00:37:54,253 when you're writing inside of a programming language like C++ or Python, you're less, I guess, you can't really go down the messy route. 453 00:37:54,253 --> 00:37:57,976 It needs to be quite organized for you to be able to achieve anything. 454 00:37:57,976 --> 00:38:07,043 But the joy that I felt when I was able to use a plug-in that I wrote inside of my DAW, 455 00:38:07,351 --> 00:38:18,391 was very similar to when I had spent four hours patching cables to get that particular kick drum out of my Pulsar 23. 456 00:38:18,518 --> 00:38:22,620 I love that kick drum to death, now I have a... 457 00:38:22,620 --> 00:38:25,232 That kick drum is mine, no one else has that. 458 00:38:25,232 --> 00:38:27,571 That exists in the moment. 459 00:38:27,571 --> 00:38:34,357 In same way, I know exactly why the numbers that were translated from the Fourier transform, Fourier transform... 460 00:38:34,767 --> 00:38:44,247 then manipulated by me in the digital signal processing domain, and then were put back out to be waveforms again that are audible. 461 00:38:44,607 --> 00:38:47,147 That's mine, there's an accomplishment there. 462 00:38:47,147 --> 00:38:57,107 So that was kind of, hopefully that makes sense, that's a little bit of my villain origin story, that's how I got into plugin development. 463 00:38:58,300 --> 00:39:00,161 Yeah, I can relate to that. 464 00:39:00,201 --> 00:39:15,848 Not so much in that actual programming in that way, but um I've been creating like Ableton Live packs using instrument racks and drum racks, audio effect racks and the thought of 465 00:39:15,848 --> 00:39:18,340 like, how am going to make these macro knobs interact? 466 00:39:18,340 --> 00:39:19,940 What do I want to have control over? 467 00:39:19,940 --> 00:39:23,107 How much control over each one of those parameters do I want? 468 00:39:23,107 --> 00:39:23,546 Yeah. 469 00:39:23,546 --> 00:39:27,118 how does that influence how I play the instrument? 470 00:39:27,399 --> 00:39:33,504 I find that really exciting and it's especially fun. 471 00:39:33,504 --> 00:39:34,364 very similar. 472 00:39:34,364 --> 00:39:36,125 It's just in a different medium. 473 00:39:36,125 --> 00:39:45,069 um I think that coding can be thought of as inherently prohibitively difficult to wrap your head around. 474 00:39:45,069 --> 00:39:59,867 um With modern tools and with the amount of information there is out there and the wherewithal to kind of want to get into it, I think even if you want to start 475 00:39:59,867 --> 00:40:08,711 at Ableton macros and go down to Max for live and then go into the Maybe I'm gonna write a low-pass filter or something like that. 476 00:40:08,711 --> 00:40:12,472 Try to get my wrap my head around What's going on there? 477 00:40:12,472 --> 00:40:27,949 I think it's just a little bit deeper down that rabbit hole and I think it's it's all in the act of Creating It's fun, it's very rewarding I encourage I encourage anyone to that 478 00:40:27,949 --> 00:40:29,176 would be curious 479 00:40:29,176 --> 00:40:30,860 to give it a go. 480 00:40:31,802 --> 00:40:32,813 Yeah, I could see that. 481 00:40:32,813 --> 00:40:37,500 And especially when you're going to apply it to your own music, too. 482 00:40:37,500 --> 00:40:39,535 That's got to be a lot of fun. 483 00:40:39,535 --> 00:40:49,059 So, I mean, I have tools that are, and this was how I started, I have plugins that are internal use only. 484 00:40:49,059 --> 00:40:54,261 They aren't out there. 485 00:40:54,582 --> 00:40:58,603 And I don't say that as being like, I have something that you can't have. 486 00:40:58,603 --> 00:41:05,936 I say that moreover as saying, it's very rewarding to me to say, I need to get this out of the sound. 487 00:41:05,936 --> 00:41:07,647 I need to juice the sound. 488 00:41:07,843 --> 00:41:14,907 Well, I dialed in my own plugin that I use inside of Ableton that does what I need. 489 00:41:15,148 --> 00:41:25,074 And if it doesn't work exactly like I need, maybe I'll go down to the code and change that a little bit and re-export the plugin for my use. 490 00:41:25,074 --> 00:41:32,469 um It's similar to patch cables or anything like that in my head. 491 00:41:33,178 --> 00:41:45,843 Hmm, almost like I could get a different EQ, a different console emulation, or I can go in there and I know I want this kind of character to the sound. 492 00:41:46,457 --> 00:42:04,195 Computer music, although we do have so many tools inside of the DAWs, um all of them ship with this massive suite of what seems like everything, in my head, computer music is very 493 00:42:04,195 --> 00:42:07,636 nascent genre. 494 00:42:08,236 --> 00:42:14,819 There's a lot of room in there for exploring and creating new things and being messy in the same way that 495 00:42:15,343 --> 00:42:27,494 Like I was saying just uh to bring it back if they created an ADT so that John Lennon could have a new sound on his vocal well someone had to think of an ADT and then get out 496 00:42:27,494 --> 00:42:37,964 some some tape machine and make it wobble and this and that and then they put it inside of Abbey Rhodes and they used it to create some hit records, so I think there are a lot of 497 00:42:37,964 --> 00:42:41,767 tools that are yet to be made and um 498 00:42:42,671 --> 00:42:46,113 There are developers that are doing really amazing things all the time. 499 00:42:46,113 --> 00:42:55,067 um But I am inspired every time I go in there and I try and think of kind of like the gardening. 500 00:42:55,067 --> 00:42:56,498 What are we going to do today? 501 00:42:56,498 --> 00:42:59,639 What's this tool that I'm going to try and create today? 502 00:43:01,414 --> 00:43:12,123 Do a lot of those designs come from just a need while you're working on music or is it more, let me just make this and then see what I can make with it. 503 00:43:13,951 --> 00:43:17,532 We have a plug-in that the Soap Audio guys and I made. 504 00:43:17,532 --> 00:43:31,516 We were uh trying to get down to the bottom of Michael Coleman, who is one third of Soap Audio, and he is an amazing mixer, producer, just audio engineer, musician all around. 505 00:43:31,516 --> 00:43:40,963 um He was working with a lot of artists and he realized that when he recorded, when they recorded demo drums on their 506 00:43:40,963 --> 00:43:43,124 voice memo on their iPhone. 507 00:43:43,425 --> 00:43:50,609 They would retract the drums and the artist would still prefer the voice memo drums. 508 00:43:50,670 --> 00:44:00,336 So we got down to what exactly is voice memos doing to the sounds and why is that pleasing? 509 00:44:00,336 --> 00:44:04,319 um And we built a tool that is not... 510 00:44:04,319 --> 00:44:05,319 um 511 00:44:06,871 --> 00:44:10,593 It could be done if you route up a bunch of different... 512 00:44:10,593 --> 00:44:24,921 It's kind of expanding the quiet frequencies, or the quiet dynamics, and compressing the high ones, and changing the ratio dynamics, or changing, yeah, the ratio of the uh 513 00:44:24,921 --> 00:44:30,004 dynamics computer in real time based on the input of the sound. 514 00:44:30,004 --> 00:44:35,487 um That tool wasn't out there, so we built it and... 515 00:44:36,047 --> 00:44:38,571 uh We love it. 516 00:44:38,571 --> 00:44:46,821 it was for that one in particular, it was based off of just this everyday, why do I keep on dealing with people that prefer voice memos? 517 00:44:46,922 --> 00:44:48,905 What are voice memos doing? 518 00:44:48,905 --> 00:44:53,591 Can we do what voice memos is doing with a more musical intent? 519 00:44:54,524 --> 00:45:00,070 So you're kind of referring to how I don't have to set the volume on my mic in my phone when I do a voice memo. 520 00:45:00,070 --> 00:45:04,835 It just sort of, it knows that because it's hearing what's coming in. 521 00:45:04,835 --> 00:45:08,519 And if I'm whispering in it, it knows it needs to bring it up. 522 00:45:08,519 --> 00:45:12,689 And if I'm recording the band, it knows. 523 00:45:12,689 --> 00:45:23,851 memos, at least what we found, are doing some strange processing that's unusual when you, yeah, when you A-B it against the same source that was mic'd a different way. 524 00:45:24,132 --> 00:45:32,641 The playback of a voice memo has kind of an interesting dynamics thing going on. 525 00:45:33,783 --> 00:45:34,603 Yeah. 526 00:45:34,940 --> 00:45:38,552 I've used them um sometimes. 527 00:45:39,304 --> 00:45:43,046 The last thing I did with my band, I used it almost like a room mic. 528 00:45:43,046 --> 00:45:45,288 So the drums were already tracked. 529 00:45:45,288 --> 00:45:52,872 I just ran them through, played them out of the monitors and just held my phone mic right here where I'm sitting and just let it record it. 530 00:45:52,872 --> 00:45:54,763 And then just kind of mix that in a little bit. 531 00:45:54,763 --> 00:46:02,157 And it definitely gave it a little bit of energy and a little more space. 532 00:46:02,157 --> 00:46:06,980 You know, the room, the song kind of changed a little bit. 533 00:46:06,989 --> 00:46:07,919 Yeah. 534 00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:10,941 And uh it's a lot of fun. 535 00:46:10,941 --> 00:46:12,362 It's great. 536 00:46:12,722 --> 00:46:15,714 Yeah, this particular tool that we will release eventually. 537 00:46:15,714 --> 00:46:29,021 Yeah, and we've also built in parameters inside of the GUI to be able to kind of push what it's doing or what we assume that it's doing or what we found via our analysis to the 538 00:46:29,021 --> 00:46:29,651 extreme. 539 00:46:29,651 --> 00:46:35,754 So you can do these really crazy um things to the sound. 540 00:46:36,801 --> 00:46:37,619 It's great. 541 00:46:37,619 --> 00:46:38,805 It's a lot of fun. 542 00:46:39,088 --> 00:46:41,151 Hmm, that is cool. 543 00:46:41,151 --> 00:46:47,960 that, but that came from a problem to solve because why does everyone like this voice memo? 544 00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:49,601 It should not work. 545 00:46:50,383 --> 00:46:53,567 Everything says no, let's do it the right way. 546 00:46:53,567 --> 00:46:56,550 But there's something more right about this way. 547 00:46:56,952 --> 00:46:57,692 Yeah. 548 00:46:57,692 --> 00:47:07,427 And the product that we're currently selling on uh Musub came also from trying to solve a problem, which was... 549 00:47:07,427 --> 00:47:10,608 This is the voice cleaner. 550 00:47:10,608 --> 00:47:11,258 Yes. 551 00:47:11,258 --> 00:47:12,369 From Soap Audio. 552 00:47:12,369 --> 00:47:14,360 has a super cool interface, the way. 553 00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:21,608 The red and yellow and real simple, but interesting to interact with. 554 00:47:21,933 --> 00:47:25,355 from Michael Coleman again. 555 00:47:25,355 --> 00:47:32,510 So I do as far as the company, it's Michael Coleman, Kevin Fielding and me. 556 00:47:32,510 --> 00:47:38,785 Kevin, or Michael is a really great audio engineer, Grammy nominated, all that stuff. 557 00:47:38,785 --> 00:47:42,358 And Kevin is a very high level programmer. 558 00:47:42,358 --> 00:47:47,271 He worked on some of the rabbit AI stuff and um 559 00:47:48,111 --> 00:47:53,731 currently is programming in the mobile space for skims. 560 00:47:54,191 --> 00:47:58,231 And I do more of the plug-in DSP backend stuff. 561 00:47:59,951 --> 00:48:07,311 So the voice cleaner came when Michael was complaining about basketball podcasts. 562 00:48:07,311 --> 00:48:10,731 He said all of them have the same issue. 563 00:48:10,731 --> 00:48:13,231 They have the same frequency buildup. 564 00:48:13,231 --> 00:48:17,351 They have the same, I think, 565 00:48:17,357 --> 00:48:21,688 Rostam from vampire weekends had a great tweet that I think about all the time. 566 00:48:21,688 --> 00:48:34,472 It said just like remove the low-mids out of your life um They all had this this terrible low-mid problem this terrible siblings problem this unevenness and it's in their dynamics 567 00:48:34,672 --> 00:48:46,799 and It was consistent we could tell across different Podcasts that were recorded in different rooms in different ways and then we tried to 568 00:48:46,799 --> 00:49:01,694 kind of explain that we got in contact and we try to explain this to some of the podcast producers and um terms like equalization, compression, dynamic range, multi-bands, uh 569 00:49:01,694 --> 00:49:07,720 sibilants, all these issues were uh daunting and scary words for them. 570 00:49:07,720 --> 00:49:10,002 So we set out to make a plugin. 571 00:49:10,002 --> 00:49:11,623 um 572 00:49:12,003 --> 00:49:24,813 that is a little bit of a non-musical application, well, a lot of bit of a non-musical application for anyone recording the human speaking voice to get a uh pleasant speaking 573 00:49:24,813 --> 00:49:39,905 voice that is non-taxing on the ear and to fix the problems if you only have maybe the budget USB mic from Best Buy or the recording into your iPhone without trying to get that 574 00:49:39,905 --> 00:49:42,187 crazy dynamics thing that I was talking about. 575 00:49:42,319 --> 00:49:56,349 And it has been really well received by the people that use Audacity and getting the plugin via the MuseHub platform. 576 00:49:56,429 --> 00:50:10,263 And it's been a lot of fun getting to work with people and see the plugin have a bit of an adoption on a wide scale by podcasters and audiobook recorders. 577 00:50:10,263 --> 00:50:12,807 narrators, content creators in general. 578 00:50:12,807 --> 00:50:23,893 um People that may have never used a plugin before or never thought about digital signal processing or building a vocal chain or something like that. 579 00:50:26,057 --> 00:50:33,121 And this works by they can choose like a profile or a preset for like their specific microphone. 580 00:50:34,603 --> 00:50:35,364 That's cool. 581 00:50:35,364 --> 00:50:40,635 Makes it easier than like some of the other like in terminology. 582 00:50:40,635 --> 00:50:47,858 that, yeah, you could possibly really want or use, uh, inside of that environment. 583 00:50:47,858 --> 00:50:57,702 And I've done a lot of, a lot of just mixing work for friends working in film and TV and on podcasts and that type of stuff. 584 00:50:57,702 --> 00:51:00,703 I find myself reaching for it more often than not. 585 00:51:01,711 --> 00:51:02,504 Yeah. 586 00:51:03,673 --> 00:51:07,989 Well, I mean, you've solved some of the issues you've encountered, right? 587 00:51:07,989 --> 00:51:12,406 So it's almost like your own preset in any plugin, basically, right? 588 00:51:12,406 --> 00:51:13,688 Or uh chain. 589 00:51:13,688 --> 00:51:16,692 um 590 00:51:19,564 --> 00:51:29,707 When you're making one like this, have to imagine, because it sounds like it's, you're saying people are doing basketball podcasts, for instance, they're not audio engineers, 591 00:51:29,707 --> 00:51:37,410 music producers, which is probably why they're in the situation they are now, where you guys are saying, hey, something wrong with this. 592 00:51:38,170 --> 00:51:43,072 How do you decide how much control to give with it? 593 00:51:43,072 --> 00:51:44,792 Because you must have to... 594 00:51:45,402 --> 00:51:46,928 decide some limitations, right? 595 00:51:46,928 --> 00:51:50,991 Because if they turn the knob too far, they're going to kill it. 596 00:51:52,973 --> 00:52:05,938 the, the plugin took about two years to develop and we, uh, worked with a lot of people, mainly, uh, parents of ours and stuff like that, where we really wanted to see, okay, push 597 00:52:05,938 --> 00:52:07,298 this to the limit. 598 00:52:07,359 --> 00:52:09,739 Can you make it sound bad? 599 00:52:09,880 --> 00:52:16,641 And, um, I know Brian, you have the plugin in front of you, but for anyone listening, it's got three knobs on it. 600 00:52:16,641 --> 00:52:20,573 One says Squish, one says Suds, and one says DMUD. 601 00:52:20,594 --> 00:52:24,796 It's got a help mode where it will explain what all of those do. 602 00:52:24,977 --> 00:52:39,587 they, yeah, they're made very specifically to, they're linked very similarly in macros when you might build an Ableton Effect Rack where you can have one knob controlling nine 603 00:52:39,587 --> 00:52:40,808 different things. 604 00:52:41,068 --> 00:52:45,291 And whereas maybe on a FabFilter plugin, you might 605 00:52:45,301 --> 00:52:51,634 have every single one of those program changes available to you, the end user, in the GUI. 606 00:52:51,655 --> 00:53:03,391 We wanted to go the exact opposite direction, where we said, best case scenario, you choose a preset, the knobs are going to be set where they are, where we've decided they 607 00:53:03,391 --> 00:53:14,517 should be set, and across a very broad range of human speaking voices that we demoed when creating the DSP for this plugin, um we hope that you don't have to touch another knob. 608 00:53:14,857 --> 00:53:28,747 And if you do, with the knobs skewed and everything, we are decently confident that your voice is not going to sound, uh it's not going to take much to make it sound quite great. 609 00:53:30,940 --> 00:53:38,600 You want to take some of that control away because that's, mean, if you're an audio engineer, yes, I want to have all these. 610 00:53:38,600 --> 00:53:43,900 want to be able to do a bell curve and a, you know, low pass and whatever raise the resonance. 611 00:53:43,900 --> 00:53:56,420 But if I'm trying to make my podcast and I don't really know much more than how to cut out pauses or something like that, this is what I can go to. 612 00:53:56,567 --> 00:54:08,052 It's a lot like, I think in in for a visual analogy, like an Instagram filter where I don't have access to the shutter and all that. 613 00:54:08,052 --> 00:54:10,093 And I don't necessarily want to. 614 00:54:10,093 --> 00:54:11,824 I'm personally colorblind. 615 00:54:11,824 --> 00:54:13,895 I would rather not have access to all that stuff. 616 00:54:13,895 --> 00:54:22,999 um But if I click the filter, I might be able to have something sound more professional and then I can get 617 00:54:23,373 --> 00:54:31,007 You know, that side of the work, the decent sounds, if that's taken care of, then I can focus on what I really want to focus on. 618 00:54:31,007 --> 00:54:35,529 the basketball podcast, it's talking about the subject matter of the podcast. 619 00:54:35,529 --> 00:54:40,771 Let's focus on making the podcast as enjoyable as possible and get to doing what you love. 620 00:54:44,240 --> 00:54:52,516 Have you found anybody using this in more creative ways, like misusing it from the original intention? 621 00:54:52,516 --> 00:55:03,895 is an interesting question and I have yet to see someone really try and break the plugin um or like circuit bend it or something like that to be able to get an unusual results 622 00:55:03,895 --> 00:55:04,267 out. 623 00:55:04,267 --> 00:55:09,418 even people just running their drums through it or anything along those lines. 624 00:55:09,418 --> 00:55:17,071 No, if they are using the voice cleaner to do that, would very much appreciate it if they would let me know because I'd love to see that. 625 00:55:17,954 --> 00:55:18,332 Yeah. 626 00:55:18,332 --> 00:55:23,715 Because in thinking back, we were talking about some of the old gear and the limitations that are built in with it. 627 00:55:24,836 --> 00:55:31,080 Yeah, now we have all these devices where we have every parameter we can control, which is, again, I'm not complaining. 628 00:55:31,080 --> 00:55:32,261 Don't take them away. 629 00:55:32,261 --> 00:55:39,105 But sometimes it's nice to have something that's going to sort of do its thing. 630 00:55:39,105 --> 00:55:40,566 You know what I'm saying? 631 00:55:40,606 --> 00:55:43,408 It's going to color it in its own way because it's 632 00:55:44,068 --> 00:55:48,668 It's been built so that, yeah, this knob, it's doing like three things at once. 633 00:55:48,668 --> 00:55:50,920 So things are going to react. 634 00:55:50,920 --> 00:55:53,922 It's a Pultec versus like a Pro-Q4. 635 00:55:54,183 --> 00:56:01,469 I love the Pro-Q4, but I instantiate the Pultec emulations. 636 00:56:01,469 --> 00:56:09,816 I would love to have a Pultec, but I instantiate the Pultec emulations, specifically the UAD one, way more often. 637 00:56:09,816 --> 00:56:13,739 It isn't doing exactly what is written on the GUI. 638 00:56:14,000 --> 00:56:18,501 And I'm a pretty firm believer in... 639 00:56:18,859 --> 00:56:30,045 when creating a tool that's supposed to be a efficiency hack and to be able to get out of your own way in the creation sphere that uh it's more important to have an enjoyable piece 640 00:56:30,045 --> 00:56:32,926 of gear than a technical piece of gear. 641 00:56:33,407 --> 00:56:45,384 But there's different applications where I certainly need that Pro-Q4 and I need to set, you know, a 20 band or like a crazy dynamic EQ that's doing all sorts of this, that and 642 00:56:45,384 --> 00:56:48,295 the other and stereo width and 643 00:56:49,111 --> 00:56:53,259 Yeah, there's use cases for both. 644 00:56:53,712 --> 00:57:06,019 That's a great point because when I'm first creating a song and I'm getting in the vibe of it and the feel, I don't need to be pulling out some EQ where I'm looking at the frequency 645 00:57:06,019 --> 00:57:10,121 spectrum and boosting and cutting so that I get a little extra rumble. 646 00:57:10,121 --> 00:57:14,594 I want something where I can just turn the low end up and, all right, now it's rumbling like I need it. 647 00:57:14,594 --> 00:57:15,604 Now I can move forward. 648 00:57:15,604 --> 00:57:17,135 Later on, I'm mixing. 649 00:57:17,135 --> 00:57:19,146 I'm trying to fine tune things. 650 00:57:19,487 --> 00:57:22,095 Then, OK, now we'll get in there, but. 651 00:57:22,095 --> 00:57:25,435 There are different sides of your brain, at least to me. 652 00:57:25,435 --> 00:57:29,855 And there are people that create as they mix, or mix as they create. 653 00:57:30,855 --> 00:57:37,595 yeah, as far as keeping your tool creator-centric, I prefer those that... 654 00:57:37,595 --> 00:57:39,735 I think I mentioned the Pulsar. 655 00:57:39,755 --> 00:57:41,395 I love Soma Labs. 656 00:57:41,395 --> 00:57:43,395 Their instruments are so cool. 657 00:57:44,215 --> 00:57:48,743 I adore their... 658 00:57:49,997 --> 00:57:59,453 The Pulsar 23 has a connection that just says WTF and wow and stuff like that where it isn't made to be understood. 659 00:57:59,453 --> 00:58:08,758 It's made to be entropic and whether or not it's like a sample and hold algorithm that's pinging off of an LFO, it is something. 660 00:58:08,758 --> 00:58:16,142 It is algorithmically random or I guess it's analog so it's not algorithmically but you get what I'm saying. 661 00:58:16,142 --> 00:58:17,543 um 662 00:58:18,819 --> 00:58:27,531 The entropy in it is great and I love having that simplicity of this one thing I don't need to understand, I can just appreciate for what it's doing. 663 00:58:28,874 --> 00:58:29,332 Yeah. 664 00:58:29,332 --> 00:58:33,732 sometimes for myself with my own Ableton Live Racks. 665 00:58:33,812 --> 00:58:44,392 Rather than call something like low pass filter with reverb plus whatever, I might just call it like distance or melt. 666 00:58:44,692 --> 00:58:46,932 This is the melt knob. 667 00:58:47,112 --> 00:58:52,832 It has a few things going on and it gets me out of the... 668 00:58:53,680 --> 00:58:59,862 That technical mindset, like you kind of mentioned earlier, like when you're watching Geddy Lee and you hear the sound gets muffled. 669 00:58:59,862 --> 00:59:05,865 But now you know it's a low pass filter at like 1k and you got the numbers in it. 670 00:59:06,305 --> 00:59:14,028 You almost like science yourself out of the fantasy world that the music is creating. 671 00:59:14,329 --> 00:59:16,301 Sure, yeah, certainly. 672 00:59:16,342 --> 00:59:18,662 There's a... 673 00:59:18,662 --> 00:59:32,181 And I have gone down, I have only found that my appreciation for music has grown deeper the more that I learn about the really technical stuff, like the transforms at the... 674 00:59:33,411 --> 00:59:45,369 bass level of digital music, but being as umbrella and being as beginner minded as possible is also probably the most fun place to be creating music. 675 00:59:46,267 --> 00:59:47,137 Yeah. 676 00:59:47,658 --> 00:59:51,812 Yeah, I know a lot of people fear learning stuff for that reason. 677 00:59:51,812 --> 00:59:53,804 Like, no, I'm going to... 678 00:59:54,205 --> 01:00:04,084 And I guess that can happen sometimes where sometimes I hear a song like that's one, six, four, five progression and get like snooty about it. 679 01:00:04,084 --> 01:00:08,877 But as soon as I forget that it's one, six, four, five, I'm like, what a cool chord progression. 680 01:00:08,877 --> 01:00:09,939 You know? 681 01:00:10,119 --> 01:00:20,519 Well, I mean, it brings me back to like, was a bachelor of music and the part writing was much more like completing a Sudoku puzzle. 682 01:00:20,519 --> 01:00:23,079 There's objective correctness inside of this. 683 01:00:23,079 --> 01:00:28,519 You don't do the parallel fifths if you want to, you know, resolve a plagal cadence, it's going to be this to that. 684 01:00:28,699 --> 01:00:31,499 And there are rules to it. 685 01:00:31,499 --> 01:00:34,559 And with programming and with doing 686 01:00:34,883 --> 01:00:41,887 DSP engineering, it is kind of, you've got rules to it, but the end product can still be beautiful. 687 01:00:41,887 --> 01:00:55,975 If the composer followed all of the rules, the end user experience, the end listener that's consuming the symphony still kind of derives emotion from it. 688 01:00:56,444 --> 01:00:57,704 Hmm. 689 01:00:57,924 --> 01:00:58,664 Yeah. 690 01:00:58,664 --> 01:01:05,504 Yeah, sometimes that stuff can bog you down and pull you out of that. 691 01:01:06,744 --> 01:01:09,924 I mean, loved... 692 01:01:09,924 --> 01:01:11,744 Yeah, I've always loved... 693 01:01:11,964 --> 01:01:14,724 the way I would talk about music before I knew what I was saying. 694 01:01:14,724 --> 01:01:19,624 I'd like, that sounds like a star behind some clouds. 695 01:01:20,044 --> 01:01:26,284 And you got all these weird ways of describing things because you don't have the actual vocabulary. 696 01:01:26,404 --> 01:01:33,324 But in those descriptions, a lot of times, it pulls you into this world of what you're making. 697 01:01:33,723 --> 01:01:40,523 I had a mistake, I think, on that front with accidentally pulling my dad out of it for a little bit. 698 01:01:40,523 --> 01:01:44,283 So my dad is a big music consumer and music fan. 699 01:01:44,283 --> 01:01:46,523 turned me on to a lot of the stuff that I love. 700 01:01:46,803 --> 01:01:55,723 And he was explaining to me that a mix from I Don't Remember Who didn't sound great to him. 701 01:01:55,963 --> 01:01:56,983 And 702 01:01:57,275 --> 01:02:03,226 I was explaining to him, the system on which you're listening to the mix doesn't sound very good. 703 01:02:03,307 --> 01:02:09,418 And then we got out uh my Slate VSX headphones and we were like... 704 01:02:10,137 --> 01:02:11,888 They've got the different room emulations. 705 01:02:11,888 --> 01:02:20,191 You can listen to it in like a digital version of a Tesla or like NRG studios or anything like that and switch around. 706 01:02:20,451 --> 01:02:23,783 And my dad had this in real time. 707 01:02:23,783 --> 01:02:35,157 He was, he was kind of realizing that, um, is it, is it the fault of the speaker manufacturer or the person that placed the speakers in a different room or the mix 708 01:02:35,157 --> 01:02:37,718 engineer and all of these different things? 709 01:02:37,718 --> 01:02:39,309 Um, 710 01:02:39,917 --> 01:02:49,556 And not that I regret it, because it's not like he doesn't enjoy music anymore, but I did realize in real time, was like, okay, we're taking too much of the magic out of this. 711 01:02:49,577 --> 01:02:52,640 We just, you know, the bass can just be too loud. 712 01:02:52,640 --> 01:02:55,783 Let's let it be, let's let that be what it is. 713 01:02:56,159 --> 01:03:06,970 Yeah, yeah, sometimes, yeah, you could be like at a show and really focused on, I don't like the way that particular drum sounds or something. 714 01:03:07,031 --> 01:03:08,712 And then that's all you hear. 715 01:03:08,753 --> 01:03:14,118 And now you're not having fun at the show or you just whatever this is what it is and. 716 01:03:14,573 --> 01:03:20,210 I had that issue at a music festival where I think I walked away from my friend so I could get a better stereo image. 717 01:03:20,210 --> 01:03:21,772 Like, what am I doing here? 718 01:03:23,334 --> 01:03:24,315 Yeah. 719 01:03:25,417 --> 01:03:26,498 Yeah. 720 01:03:27,139 --> 01:03:28,280 Yeah. 721 01:03:29,102 --> 01:03:30,222 Yeah. 722 01:03:30,404 --> 01:03:31,845 No, totally. 723 01:03:31,966 --> 01:03:32,758 It's a... 724 01:03:32,758 --> 01:03:43,993 performing where I've been playing before and like something about the sound just eats at me and then I'll finish and be like, that was terrible. 725 01:03:44,293 --> 01:03:47,354 And maybe even listen back to it or other people, oh, so good. 726 01:03:47,354 --> 01:03:48,031 sounded great. 727 01:03:48,031 --> 01:03:51,289 you're like, well, I guess. 728 01:03:51,289 --> 01:03:59,049 was one of the things with the sub vocal cleaner, more than anything, the issues with the basketball podcasts that Michael was listening to. 729 01:03:59,049 --> 01:04:02,493 then we found the same issue across a lot of different podcasts. 730 01:04:02,574 --> 01:04:09,542 These kind of like, em amateur is the wrong word, but these kind of smaller podcasts that were very DIY. 731 01:04:09,847 --> 01:04:12,308 they were taxing to listen to. 732 01:04:12,308 --> 01:04:27,515 There was a reason why you as a consumer, even if you couldn't vocalize it, even if you didn't have like the, you know, the specific words to be able to say that, you know. 733 01:04:27,885 --> 01:04:32,199 this is why it's taxing, you would turn them off because they had these issues. 734 01:04:32,199 --> 01:04:41,608 So we kind of wanted to fix that because at the end of the day, we wanted that, you know, we the information that was behind all of that, those frequency problems. 735 01:04:43,571 --> 01:04:44,320 Yeah. 736 01:04:44,320 --> 01:04:50,020 Yeah, that was a similar effect to like some of the music mastering that was happening. 737 01:04:50,180 --> 01:04:54,240 The loudness wars were like, oh wow, it's so intense. 738 01:04:54,240 --> 01:04:54,640 It's great. 739 01:04:54,640 --> 01:05:00,040 But like after a few minutes, you're like, oh my God, it's this, I'm never getting a break. 740 01:05:00,040 --> 01:05:03,700 need, like I'm getting a headache and I'm getting tired. 741 01:05:03,920 --> 01:05:08,976 Just listening to this because there's no push and pull, no breathing room. 742 01:05:08,976 --> 01:05:21,504 new remasters and whatnot where they've gone back and tried to really, you know, get the original intended dynamic range. 743 01:05:21,504 --> 01:05:25,926 Suddenly that snare is not being buried, something like that. 744 01:05:26,588 --> 01:05:38,368 It's a little funny when you go on the streaming services now and you've got some choices of like what year version of the album, like am going to listen to Nirvana Nevermind from 745 01:05:38,368 --> 01:05:45,408 2013 or the new 2021, 30 year or am going to, where's the original? 746 01:05:45,408 --> 01:05:47,368 Can I just have that? 747 01:05:48,768 --> 01:05:50,512 I have friends that have been 748 01:05:50,512 --> 01:05:59,656 going back to their CDs for that reason, because they're like, I just want it to sound the way it sounded, not this new edition that are... 749 01:05:59,656 --> 01:06:01,317 speaking about the Beatles mixes. 750 01:06:01,317 --> 01:06:02,479 Some of those are funny. 751 01:06:02,479 --> 01:06:15,310 I don't know which years they were, but there are some mixes I think I had on CD where it's like Ringo and George in the right ear and John and Paul in the left ear, where I'm 752 01:06:15,310 --> 01:06:19,413 not sure what the how that one crossed the finish line. 753 01:06:20,115 --> 01:06:20,519 Right. 754 01:06:20,519 --> 01:06:22,738 a lot of weird stuff like that. 755 01:06:22,903 --> 01:06:30,648 Yeah, I'm really big fan and huge... 756 01:06:31,109 --> 01:06:44,537 I'm very interested in spatialization and what's going to happen with uh head tracking and what they're currently doing with uh Atmos, where music can be panned more in a 3D 757 01:06:44,537 --> 01:06:46,838 environment and... 758 01:06:47,413 --> 01:06:51,766 Stereo, like I was saying, digital music is decently nascent. 759 01:06:51,766 --> 01:07:02,652 Stereo, as a means by which we listen to music, is also, I mean, very much nascent compared to how long we as a people have been listening to music. 760 01:07:02,652 --> 01:07:07,725 The vast majority of that time, if you wanted to hear more of the bassist, there was no recording. 761 01:07:07,725 --> 01:07:08,505 You had to turn your head. 762 01:07:08,505 --> 01:07:11,256 You could hear more of where the bass was coming from. 763 01:07:11,377 --> 01:07:14,959 And I'm curious whether or not when you mix... 764 01:07:15,373 --> 01:07:26,227 what's currently implemented with gyroscopes and head tracking and all this, whether or not we'll move back to a place of being able to define your own listening experience via 765 01:07:26,227 --> 01:07:31,049 head tracking, or whether or not that will be an option, like you were saying, inside of the streaming services. 766 01:07:31,049 --> 01:07:38,091 um I want to put on dark side, and I want to put on the Atmos version, but I want it to be. 767 01:07:38,955 --> 01:07:46,635 in a room where I can move um even if I do have on my AirPod Max or whatever they are. 768 01:07:46,635 --> 01:07:48,359 m 769 01:07:48,784 --> 01:07:54,627 Yeah, these AirPods I have now, they're, guess, like, maybe they're the pro or something. 770 01:07:54,627 --> 01:07:57,208 They're maybe a generation behind or so. 771 01:07:57,208 --> 01:08:07,673 But they have that where, um, if I put my phone in like my left pocket, at first, it sounds like the music is on my side. 772 01:08:07,673 --> 01:08:13,115 And then it's sort of like understands after a couple of seconds that, that's just where you're keeping your phone now. 773 01:08:13,115 --> 01:08:13,516 Okay. 774 01:08:13,516 --> 01:08:14,916 And then it centers again. 775 01:08:14,916 --> 01:08:18,728 Um, and that can be a little weird. 776 01:08:18,728 --> 01:08:20,879 don't like it in that case. 777 01:08:21,280 --> 01:08:29,345 And it can be funny also if I have the computer connected to the AirPods and I turn away, you know, I'm watching YouTube or whatever. 778 01:08:29,345 --> 01:08:31,506 YouTube is still over there. 779 01:08:32,247 --> 01:08:34,208 Like speakers are. 780 01:08:35,670 --> 01:08:38,591 It's got this, it's a weird feeling. 781 01:08:39,664 --> 01:08:47,627 But it does allow some of the Atmos stuff to come, which I don't even really understand how they're able to do that with only two speakers in your head. 782 01:08:47,627 --> 01:08:52,965 But some of the mixes I've heard are great, really cool. 783 01:08:54,372 --> 01:08:57,253 One I really enjoyed was the B-52's Love Shack. 784 01:08:57,253 --> 01:09:08,436 had the guys that mixed that on the podcast and that was really cool because something I never noticed about that song, the entire way through, there's just people like partying. 785 01:09:08,656 --> 01:09:14,938 It's like, hey, all right, like people just, it's crowd noise kind of, and you really feel like you're in it. 786 01:09:14,938 --> 01:09:19,979 But there've been other mixes where it's like, oh, where's that guitar? 787 01:09:19,979 --> 01:09:22,830 Like the lead guitar is buried now and. 788 01:09:22,830 --> 01:09:23,628 Yeah. 789 01:09:23,628 --> 01:09:30,191 something weird going on here with this mix that I'm having a hard time. 790 01:09:30,191 --> 01:09:41,031 What I'd be curious about, and I'm really asking for the world here, is whether or not, in a hypothetical future, you could have, you could give the end listener volition in 791 01:09:41,031 --> 01:09:44,231 choosing how they would like... 792 01:09:44,231 --> 01:09:46,691 You know, if you want the... 793 01:09:46,691 --> 01:09:58,531 Well, if you want the crowd sound in the B-52 to be louder, maybe it wouldn't look like a mixing console, like an audio guy might understand it, but is there a world in which you 794 01:09:58,531 --> 01:09:59,661 could... 795 01:09:59,661 --> 01:10:10,129 do something on your listening experience to be able to choose to have more John, less Ringo, more Paul, you know? 796 01:10:10,129 --> 01:10:14,182 Is there something that you could do spatially? 797 01:10:14,183 --> 01:10:21,268 I've seen, I know that they've done that kind of as experiments inside of physical spaces that have physical at most rigs. 798 01:10:21,329 --> 01:10:29,555 But as far as delivering music em in that format, whether or not there's anything there. 799 01:10:30,190 --> 01:10:35,510 Yeah, kind like what you're saying about getting the better stereo image at the show moving over. 800 01:10:35,510 --> 01:10:40,037 Or can I stand closer to Paul so I can hear his bass better? 801 01:10:40,451 --> 01:10:43,546 How much choice do we want to the listener? 802 01:10:43,546 --> 01:10:44,978 Yeah. 803 01:10:45,594 --> 01:10:47,406 Yeah. 804 01:10:47,406 --> 01:10:55,652 so much of the actual piece of music is in the mix, those artistic decisions you're making with the mix. 805 01:10:55,652 --> 01:10:59,875 So if you're turning that over, you're changing a lot. 806 01:11:00,361 --> 01:11:06,157 yeah, there's a, yeah, I feel like I'm, and I mix our music. 807 01:11:06,157 --> 01:11:14,424 So I'd also probably be, you know, not offended, I'd be cautious to hand that amount of choice over. 808 01:11:15,085 --> 01:11:24,473 Maybe it would be something like what we were doing with the voice cleaner where you can change it enough, but not try and break it. 809 01:11:25,595 --> 01:11:25,970 Yeah. 810 01:11:25,970 --> 01:11:31,811 especially if you have a song that has 72 tracks in it, you know, but 811 01:11:31,811 --> 01:11:34,222 of standardization and how that's delivered. 812 01:11:34,222 --> 01:11:41,047 It's a whole range of issues in what I'm proposing, but I think the type of problem is there. 813 01:11:41,173 --> 01:11:42,935 isotope as a visual mixer? 814 01:11:42,935 --> 01:11:52,447 um Yeah, I think it's through their Neutron app plugin where it's kind of a... 815 01:11:52,628 --> 01:11:54,590 they all communicate with each other. 816 01:11:54,590 --> 01:12:02,355 But it's, it's, there's a vertical line that goes up and down and the, that would be your volume. 817 01:12:02,476 --> 01:12:08,960 And then it's, it's like a graph, I guess, where you got up and down, left and right. 818 01:12:09,821 --> 01:12:10,164 Yeah. 819 01:12:10,164 --> 01:12:12,984 And you can just move those things around. 820 01:12:12,984 --> 01:12:15,505 And if you place it higher, it's louder. 821 01:12:15,505 --> 01:12:19,023 And if you place it more to the right, it's more to the right, more to the left. 822 01:12:19,023 --> 01:12:20,427 Cool, yeah. 823 01:12:21,616 --> 01:12:22,285 I am. 824 01:12:22,285 --> 01:12:23,737 I've played with it a little bit. 825 01:12:23,737 --> 01:12:25,100 was interesting. 826 01:12:25,100 --> 01:12:29,447 It was a neat way to mix that, you know... 827 01:12:29,447 --> 01:12:34,731 each of those on your individual stems at the end of the chain? 828 01:12:34,731 --> 01:12:39,992 And then that would be gain and panning type? 829 01:12:39,992 --> 01:12:52,108 correctly, if you have a bunch of these neutrons on the tracks, then they all feed to some central location, and then you have the visual mixer where you can push things around a 830 01:12:52,108 --> 01:12:52,888 bit. 831 01:12:53,497 --> 01:13:03,173 The only iZotope I really want to use all that often, I know they've got amazing tools, but the RX suite is really, great. 832 01:13:04,075 --> 01:13:16,063 For either the D-HUM or they've got specialized guitar denoise, ah the spectral denoise, ah they're intensive, but they're great. 833 01:13:16,122 --> 01:13:22,617 Yeah, yeah, they make really interesting stuff and I've used plenty of it. 834 01:13:22,617 --> 01:13:27,781 I'm always using Ozone and stuff like that. 835 01:13:29,362 --> 01:13:37,679 But that kind of visual interface I could see maybe for a consumer, like you can have like your phone, right? 836 01:13:37,679 --> 01:13:40,210 And you can just like kind of move things. 837 01:13:40,459 --> 01:13:48,505 Or like when we've all entered the Matrix in 12 years, when we're wearing our Apple Vision Pro headsets, being able to... 838 01:13:49,906 --> 01:13:51,327 Something like that. 839 01:13:51,427 --> 01:13:53,149 Yeah. 840 01:13:53,149 --> 01:13:54,189 It's a thought. 841 01:13:54,189 --> 01:13:55,490 It's a thought. 842 01:13:55,490 --> 01:14:00,319 And then would you be able to turn your head 360? 843 01:14:01,315 --> 01:14:05,798 But like you were saying with the YouTube coming out of your right ear when you turn your head. 844 01:14:05,798 --> 01:14:07,399 ah 845 01:14:07,585 --> 01:14:13,398 It definitely needs to be a choice and we need to have the ability to choose to listen to stereo. 846 01:14:14,396 --> 01:14:18,896 Yeah, I don't know how I feel. 847 01:14:18,896 --> 01:14:20,936 think it's like, part of me thinks it's cool. 848 01:14:20,936 --> 01:14:21,816 It's like, wow, it's cool. 849 01:14:21,816 --> 01:14:22,976 can do that. 850 01:14:23,196 --> 01:14:32,196 But when I'm like, this happens to me, like every time I, if I'm going out to do like a little yard work or something or go for a run, I put my phone in my pocket and then 851 01:14:32,196 --> 01:14:35,436 everything goes in my pocket, you know? 852 01:14:35,436 --> 01:14:36,616 And then it comes back. 853 01:14:36,616 --> 01:14:40,176 Cause I think it understands that. 854 01:14:40,581 --> 01:14:45,369 They must just know like, that's probably a case where you don't want that. 855 01:14:46,512 --> 01:14:52,619 But it is a funny feeling, which is weird because it's more natural, but. 856 01:14:52,619 --> 01:14:53,600 It is. 857 01:14:53,642 --> 01:14:54,703 It is. 858 01:14:54,906 --> 01:14:56,778 But I guess we've naturalized here by... 859 01:14:56,778 --> 01:15:00,770 trained to have headphones on and just hear it out of the headphones. 860 01:15:01,441 --> 01:15:12,954 I had a friend have me come over and look at their they'd recently gotten a um like a hi-fi setup and they were not an audio person in the slightest and they got a decent 861 01:15:12,954 --> 01:15:25,478 system and they placed it so that the two speakers were back to back one was facing this way and one was facing exactly the other way there was no stereo image it was just exact 862 01:15:25,478 --> 01:15:31,019 opposites and I realized that that phantom middle channel and 863 01:15:31,529 --> 01:15:39,962 know, spatialization is just something that most people, even even audiophiles, I mean maybe not so much audiophiles, but a lot of people just don't think about it, like at all. 864 01:15:39,962 --> 01:15:44,378 They really think about the left and the right in the middle of it all. 865 01:15:44,890 --> 01:15:52,591 No, no, I've found myself explaining what listening in mono is to people versus stereo. 866 01:15:52,591 --> 01:15:58,678 And you just don't think about that, I guess, until you get into this world. 867 01:15:59,181 --> 01:16:05,574 Yeah, and I know it's the same way with all the mediums that I'm not, you know, a professional in. 868 01:16:05,574 --> 01:16:20,320 I know there things happening, be it novels or TV shows or movies or anything at all, where there's so much nuance inside of it that I just get the joy of being a consumer and 869 01:16:20,320 --> 01:16:26,883 just get the awesome emotional feeling of consuming that without heavy knowledge of what's going on here. 870 01:16:28,144 --> 01:16:30,057 Well, I think that's kind of... 871 01:16:30,266 --> 01:16:32,517 the goal of a lot of it too. 872 01:16:33,157 --> 01:16:46,083 I don't think you want someone listening to the song and then be like, what a cool mixing move that was, you know, the job of that, the mixer is almost to get out of the way that 873 01:16:46,083 --> 01:16:47,344 you're not thinking about it. 874 01:16:47,344 --> 01:16:52,837 And, or like the camera in a movie, if you're constantly like, whoa, cool camera angle. 875 01:16:52,837 --> 01:16:55,227 I love how they're spinning the camera now. 876 01:16:55,268 --> 01:17:00,660 You're, you're not thinking about the story and you're caught up in the, 877 01:17:01,722 --> 01:17:04,585 In the technical... 878 01:17:05,768 --> 01:17:06,730 Right, right. 879 01:17:06,730 --> 01:17:08,753 Well, that's great analogy. 880 01:17:08,753 --> 01:17:10,055 That's funny. 881 01:17:10,055 --> 01:17:10,995 Yeah. 882 01:17:12,318 --> 01:17:13,258 It is. 883 01:17:14,307 --> 01:17:25,660 I think that's a little bit like what I was saying before with being at a show and I don't like the way that sounds or the new master is kind of annoying. 884 01:17:26,004 --> 01:17:27,644 The 2014 edition. 885 01:17:27,644 --> 01:17:28,381 uh 886 01:17:28,381 --> 01:17:31,649 yourself of the joy of consumption. 887 01:17:32,534 --> 01:17:33,217 Yeah. 888 01:17:33,217 --> 01:17:33,557 Yeah. 889 01:17:33,557 --> 01:17:36,718 So much of the job is to get out of the way. 890 01:17:36,718 --> 01:17:45,241 your friend, you know, with, with soap is probably like, I was enjoying the show, but I'm too distracted by the sound. 891 01:17:45,462 --> 01:17:48,393 Like I, want to listen to it more, but it's annoying. 892 01:17:48,393 --> 01:17:49,923 It hurts or it. 893 01:17:49,964 --> 01:17:50,351 Yeah. 894 01:17:50,351 --> 01:17:52,772 It was, and it was, was made out of a labor of love. 895 01:17:52,772 --> 01:17:58,787 And I'm glad that the tool is being used by people and I'm glad that it's finding its home because we really are very proud of it. 896 01:17:58,787 --> 01:18:01,359 And we stand behind it a hundred percent. 897 01:18:01,359 --> 01:18:11,566 ah Yeah, it was made to fix, fix a problem so that it could, it could be it being the end product could be more enjoyable. 898 01:18:12,708 --> 01:18:23,555 It's great people are taking to it and it kind of brings me to ask you a little bit about MuseHub because it's one thing to make something but it has to also reach people and you 899 01:18:23,555 --> 01:18:36,122 guys are using MuseHub to reach an audience and I'm not all that familiar with it but as I've been looking through it, it seems like a pretty cool way to find some new tools for 900 01:18:36,122 --> 01:18:39,164 whether you're making music or even more than that I think. 901 01:18:39,505 --> 01:18:45,268 Audacity, think all, a lot of music creators are very familiar with Audacity. 902 01:18:45,268 --> 01:18:48,149 Audacity has been around for a very long time. 903 01:18:48,210 --> 01:18:56,304 And at present Audacity has been freeware and crowd maintained for as long as I know. 904 01:18:56,304 --> 01:18:58,855 It was Sony originally, if I'm not mistaken. 905 01:18:58,855 --> 01:19:02,287 Am I wrong about that? 906 01:19:04,568 --> 01:19:05,908 I could be wrong. 907 01:19:06,389 --> 01:19:13,312 I never really used it, too much, but it was always um the software at the school I work with. 908 01:19:13,692 --> 01:19:15,953 Audacity is what everybody used. 909 01:19:18,254 --> 01:19:19,275 It doesn't matter. 910 01:19:19,275 --> 01:19:21,415 It's not anymore, at least. 911 01:19:21,567 --> 01:19:26,247 was developed by... 912 01:19:26,247 --> 01:19:27,667 Shoot. 913 01:19:27,767 --> 01:19:29,867 Now you got me looking at the Wikipedia page. 914 01:19:29,867 --> 01:19:31,167 This is not important. 915 01:19:31,307 --> 01:19:32,267 Yeah. 916 01:19:32,607 --> 01:19:36,927 It started in 99 at Carnegie Mellon. 917 01:19:38,347 --> 01:19:40,407 Yeah, I believe it was freeware the whole time. 918 01:19:40,407 --> 01:19:41,887 Doesn't really matter. 919 01:19:44,067 --> 01:19:49,487 It's been a part of Muse Group for about three years now. 920 01:19:49,619 --> 01:20:00,484 And Muse Group launched uh Muse Hub, where there's also MuseScore and some pretty popular um creation tools. 921 01:20:00,484 --> 01:20:08,047 um Specifically, Audacity is the most popular or the most used DAW in the world. 922 01:20:08,047 --> 01:20:18,011 um And it's far and away the most popular amongst non-musicians using DAWs to record 923 01:20:18,189 --> 01:20:19,779 non-musical ideas. 924 01:20:21,341 --> 01:20:35,409 So a lot of what the MuseHub software is doing is getting the tools to these people that um you and I and a lot of the listeners of the podcast are probably aware of everything, 925 01:20:35,409 --> 01:20:40,252 you know, between the multi-track recorder and the newest release of Serum 2. 926 01:20:40,252 --> 01:20:45,699 But like these people may have never owned a plugin before and 927 01:20:46,391 --> 01:20:50,932 may not be familiar with anything inside of the world of DSP. 928 01:20:50,932 --> 01:21:06,156 So I think Muse Hub is making uh audio production and DSP tools accessible to an audience that don't necessarily find themselves looking for those otherwise. 929 01:21:06,276 --> 01:21:16,255 And I am not affiliated with Muse Hub, so I could be getting that story entirely wrong, but that's what I understand it to be and... 930 01:21:16,255 --> 01:21:19,376 I really have only the best things to say about that team. 931 01:21:19,497 --> 01:21:28,142 And it's had a lot of users um since it launched MuseHub as a platform a bit ago. 932 01:21:29,508 --> 01:21:33,563 I mean, it's great you're able to put your work up there and it reaches people. 933 01:21:33,563 --> 01:21:35,916 And I say it's like right on the front page. 934 01:21:35,916 --> 01:21:38,979 It's uh for podcasting essentials. 935 01:21:38,979 --> 01:21:40,341 It's after audacity. 936 01:21:40,341 --> 01:21:42,643 It's no voice cleaner. 937 01:21:42,824 --> 01:21:59,533 And I know that uh MUSE Hub is encouraging other aspiring developers to get onto the platform and try their shot at kind of creating tools, um be it for musical uses or 938 01:21:59,533 --> 01:22:03,355 non-musical uses. 939 01:22:03,735 --> 01:22:10,831 yeah, there's a lot of joy to be found in DSP if you find your name being called that way and a lot of great resources for education. 940 01:22:10,831 --> 01:22:12,716 inside of that sphere. 941 01:22:14,481 --> 01:22:28,142 I think it's really cool how you've taken a lot of these interests of yours from playing music with other people, performing, touring, and also just programming and creating your 942 01:22:28,142 --> 01:22:29,393 own tools. 943 01:22:30,114 --> 01:22:42,503 It's, I think, the kind of modern direction a lot of people that are interested in music making and being involved with music as a career kind of need to think about because 944 01:22:42,940 --> 01:22:44,560 Everything changes so fast. 945 01:22:44,560 --> 01:22:48,860 It's hard to put any of your eggs in just one basket. 946 01:22:48,860 --> 01:22:56,000 So to have some maneuverability and you know, all of that is, is smart. 947 01:22:56,000 --> 01:23:01,840 And it's probably fun for you too, cause you get to scratch a lot of itches. 948 01:23:01,865 --> 01:23:09,507 yeah, I wouldn't say that like pursuing a career in music is like always, you know. 949 01:23:09,507 --> 01:23:13,149 going to be the most financially stable thing that you can do in life. 950 01:23:13,149 --> 01:23:23,053 And I wouldn't say that like going deeper into DSP was something that I did to kind of achieve, you know, whatever, a more diverse, either financial or whatever, trying to 951 01:23:23,053 --> 01:23:24,534 stabilize myself. 952 01:23:24,574 --> 01:23:35,789 But it has given me an appreciation for all sides of music, be it the knob turning, the very granular, you know. 953 01:23:35,811 --> 01:23:39,282 This was recorded by a mic and then went through an A to D conversion. 954 01:23:39,282 --> 01:23:40,652 Okay, what is A to D? 955 01:23:40,652 --> 01:23:47,254 Now that I appreciate that, I appreciate everything that's happening on my screen more and I appreciate the music more. 956 01:23:47,254 --> 01:24:02,959 And it's also allowed me to like really appreciate the creators that have come before me that have like paved the way and made amazing music and amazing music creation tools. 957 01:24:04,890 --> 01:24:05,721 Yeah, that's cool. 958 01:24:05,721 --> 01:24:18,580 That tends to happen when you start exploring something, start making it yourself and start seeing what really goes into it and all of the little things that came before that 959 01:24:18,580 --> 01:24:20,631 allow you to get to where you're going. 960 01:24:20,899 --> 01:24:22,043 Yeah, certainly. 961 01:24:22,043 --> 01:24:25,353 It's a joy. 962 01:24:25,353 --> 01:24:29,259 And there's a lot of innovation left. 963 01:24:30,234 --> 01:24:31,865 Yeah, I think so. 964 01:24:33,046 --> 01:24:37,059 It's always, I mean, we're getting spoiled, I think, really. 965 01:24:37,059 --> 01:24:44,634 mean, it seems like every week, there's a new this, there's a new that, this new thing came out and everything's like, my God, that's so cool. 966 01:24:45,095 --> 01:24:47,276 It used to be so much more spread out. 967 01:24:47,789 --> 01:25:01,628 Yeah, there's a bedroom developers and there's, yeah, I would say is a, you know, maybe I'm biased on this, but I learned to code before chat GPT and the, the LLMs could really 968 01:25:01,628 --> 01:25:03,249 just spit out code. 969 01:25:03,470 --> 01:25:15,238 And I would caution anyone if they want to get into plugin developments to uh learn it the hard way, because even as I've tried to get more into and try and learn higher level and 970 01:25:15,238 --> 01:25:16,238 lower level stuff. 971 01:25:16,238 --> 01:25:17,799 uh 972 01:25:18,273 --> 01:25:22,746 It's funny how there's nothing that can replace doing it the right way. 973 01:25:22,746 --> 01:25:30,610 The GPTs and LLMs and all that stuff have led me more astray than in the right direction. 974 01:25:32,031 --> 01:25:32,891 Yeah. 975 01:25:33,601 --> 01:25:35,702 they're certainly interesting tools. 976 01:25:35,702 --> 01:25:51,048 um I've found them maybe like in creating like visuals even sometimes I find it very hard to get what I want but sometimes it gives me the idea to make what I want and that's kind 977 01:25:51,048 --> 01:25:56,350 of cool but yeah you can't do that if you don't have some of that foundational stuff as well. 978 01:25:56,350 --> 01:26:00,012 There's still a lot of value to knowing that stuff. 979 01:26:00,121 --> 01:26:04,235 Certainly, no, and I don't mean to say don't, don't, yeah, I'm not holier than thou. 980 01:26:04,235 --> 01:26:05,356 I'll use it. 981 01:26:05,356 --> 01:26:12,022 I'll hop in there, but it can confuse if you don't really know what you're looking at. 982 01:26:12,484 --> 01:26:13,205 Right. 983 01:26:13,205 --> 01:26:14,306 believe that. 984 01:26:17,291 --> 01:26:24,610 Anything ah on the horizon or you want to share before we wrap this one up? 985 01:26:24,883 --> 01:26:25,643 yeah. 986 01:26:25,643 --> 01:26:27,443 Well, first off, Brian, thank you for having me. 987 01:26:27,443 --> 01:26:30,023 This is a lot of fun to do. 988 01:26:31,503 --> 01:26:34,143 Yeah, imagine by the time this... 989 01:26:34,143 --> 01:26:35,103 Yeah. 990 01:26:35,103 --> 01:26:40,623 Well, I was about to say, I imagine by the time this comes out, my band will have likely finished the tour. 991 01:26:40,623 --> 01:26:44,943 We've got about a week and a half left, a little bit more than that. 992 01:26:44,943 --> 01:26:51,903 We're ending next Thursday, which is the 16th. 993 01:26:51,943 --> 01:26:52,624 So... 994 01:26:52,624 --> 01:26:54,250 You might be out before then. 995 01:26:54,383 --> 01:26:56,003 Okay, right on. 996 01:26:56,003 --> 01:27:01,403 Well, I've got a band called Moon Tower and we love our new show, we love our new album. 997 01:27:01,423 --> 01:27:06,223 We're selling vinyls of the album that isn't out yet and that's a lot of fun. 998 01:27:06,383 --> 01:27:16,653 Soap Audio is continuing to create some amazing tools that I'm going to be cautious to talk too much about because... 999 01:27:16,653 --> 01:27:25,027 I know how development goes and sometimes a feature set ends up working really well in beta and then in the release we can't deliver. 1000 01:27:25,027 --> 01:27:38,483 So I will just say for non-musical applications and some cool unusual musical applications, Soap Audio is some great tools coming down the pipeline that I couldn't be 1001 01:27:38,483 --> 01:27:39,173 happier about. 1002 01:27:39,173 --> 01:27:43,815 um 1003 01:27:43,823 --> 01:27:49,573 Other than that, check out Audacity and check out MuseHub and the great people at MuseGroup. 1004 01:27:51,708 --> 01:27:52,868 Cool. 1005 01:27:52,868 --> 01:27:54,628 Yeah, definitely checked it out. 1006 01:27:54,628 --> 01:27:58,288 I'll put links in the show notes for people so you can just click on them. 1007 01:27:59,208 --> 01:28:00,508 But yeah, Tom, thanks so much. 1008 01:28:00,508 --> 01:28:02,168 This has been great. 1009 01:28:02,268 --> 01:28:04,008 Thanks for coming by. 1010 01:28:04,008 --> 01:28:05,008 Yeah, you too. 1011 01:28:05,008 --> 01:28:07,068 Thank you to everybody listening. 1012 01:28:07,828 --> 01:28:08,648 Enjoy. 1013 01:28:09,208 --> 01:28:09,828 All right. 1014 01:28:09,828 --> 01:28:11,188 We did it. 1015 01:28:11,471 --> 01:28:12,356 Good deal.