To really enjoy those younger years because it gets so much more complex and the stakes get higher and the pressure it builds.

So then fast forward, you know, five ten years from Howard, where are you at in your career?

And do you feel like you are doing baby Kaya proud?

In terms of like where you've ended.

Up my life.

It doesn't necessarily look like what I thought it would, but I have so many people who message me or text me or reach out to me and they're just like, oh my gosh, I wish I could do this or how did you do this?

Or Kaya, and you represent what we want to do in the Southeast as a filmmaker or even actors like you have an audition in four years and you're booking nine episodes.

How that my life and my opportunities have come from like trusting the process.

Every opportunity has come from a seed that I sold prior.

Hey, hey va, fam I am so so excited to welcome you all back to the show.

I have an incredible guest here in the virtual studio today.

Her name is Kaya Klingman, and I gotta be honest with y'all.

This woman is the definition of Brown ambition in action, talking about a Howard grad corporate alum and now an award winning indie producer and breakout actress who is bringing deeply human, black, blackerdy, black back black stories to the screen.

She has been adopted by the city of Atlanta, Yes, my beloved Atlanta, although she was raised in Cincinnati, and Kaya has built her own lane with her production studio, Kaya Canned Productions.

She's also helped lead the Tribeca at and t Untold Stories winning feature color book from Pitch to Festival Darling, while quietly stacking over two dozen producer credits across short series and features.

On top of that already crazy impressive resume, She's now stealing scenes as Kristen in the Hulu Onyx collective legal drama Reasonable Doubt.

Ari y'all is obsessed with Reasonable Doubt, as I have become because of Kaya's performance.

Yes, I hope.

So what I love about Kaya, what we'll get into today, is that this was actually a role that she booked off an audition that she almost did not submit, and has since turned her into a fan favorite for her role as a complicated Ride or Die sister to former child star Ozzie Edwards.

Wu Hiyahamaso, from corporate life to calling the shots behind the camera to standing in her power on set with creators like ram La Mohammed and Carrie Washington.

Kaya's career is a masterclass embedding on yourself, owning your work, and staying ready for the door that could change everything.

Thank you so much for joining me on Brown Ambition, Kaya.

Thank you Mandy, and I need to steal that bio.

Okay, we can have it.

We can tweak it, Yeah, you can tak it.

You can really incorporated all facets of my career.

I'm like truly a multi hyphen it and it's sometimes tark of people, especially in this industry, trying to pigeonhole you into being producer just an actor, and you incorporate all that so beautifully.

So thank you, Carl.

It's your life.

I'm just here to help tell that story.

It's been so easy for you, right, I mean, you just walked into that set, got that job, unreasonable doubt.

You're just an overnight success.

Is that right?

Happened?

Sometimes?

I live such a short interview right the end.

I wish it was that easy, but so many of us who are who are on the journey decided to do this journey for some weird reasons, not easy.

I actually, you're right, I almost did not submit that audition tape because I had not booked a role in four years.

We don't talk about that a lot as actors, the in between times, you know, on social media, we typically just see the picture of someone in front of their trailer when they book a role, or the deadline article or their wrap photo, and we don't ever really talk about the dark times, the times in between bookings.

And it's crazy that it had been four plus years since I had had a sag booking, and it had been so long that I essentially gave up on acting and pivoted to be a full time filmmaker.

I was already a filmmaker before that, started my production company in twenty eighteen, but I decided to pursue that full time, leave my corporate career at Deloitte in twenty twenty one and committed my career to producing, directing, and writing.

But fast forward to this year, twenty twenty five.

March twenty twenty five, I was at a film festival for a short film and a feature film, one which you mentioned color Book that I had produced, and I got a text from a casting associate with the breakdown for Kristen, asking me to send in a self tape, and because I had not been actively auditioning, I immediately felt insecure.

I felt imposter syndrome.

The casting associate even mentioned that they wanted the character to wear glasses and not as a prop, but actually wear glasses.

And I wear glasses every day.

I really wear my secks, and so you would think on paper, I would immediately been like, Okay, this is meant to be, this is perfect for me.

But I was at a hotel, I wasn't in my safe space of my self tape room, I didn't have my reader that I always do auditions with, and put on top of that, I hadn't really auditioned regularly in over two and a half years.

So all that combined it was very easy for me to say, you know what, I'm not going to do this.

But I met a filmmaker at I had already known the filmmaker, but I ended up meeting up with a filmmaker in Cleveland who was also an actress, and she told me that she brings her ring light everywhere she goes and she'd be happy to tape me that evening at her hotel.

So that's exactly what I did.

I even posted on Instagram our setup because we were in the hotel and we had to like rig the phone on top of the trash can and like a water bottle and an iron and a whole thing.

Yeah, but we got it done.

And I hated my audition so much that I actually went back to my hotel room that night and tried to retape it with my boyfriend and did Let's just say, it didn't go as well, but we just didn't have enough lighting and it was our first tape together and so there were a lot of things to learn.

But I ended up submitting the first audition that I did with my friend Madison, and I found out that I booked the role a week later.

Within that week, it was a lot of you know, nerves, because you find out that you're pinned for the role and that you may get an offer, and there were a lot of steps in between.

But literally almost a week later, I got my deal from my reps and they told me I was going to be in nine episodes, which crazy from going from not booking anything for four years to doing nine episodes is a recurring guest star.

It is pretty unheard of, so I'm very thankful.

Well, I mean that story, I kind of get chills thinking about it.

I love the sisterhood and that like that wasn't someone that was like, you know, like a best friend or like a relative.

This is someone who was just in the business.

Yeah and knows maybe you needed that extra little nudge.

Yes, and me too.

Yeah, she gave me some feedback and direction, and she showed up for me when I needed it.

Like she she was, you know, running around at the festival doing her thing, but she decided to take time and pour into me because she knows how it feels to be a director and an actor.

And she's an incredible writer too, so we know how to wear that multi hyphen it hat well.

And yeah, I'm just grateful of how everything.

And then and then I coached with my boyfriend that got a shout him out, but he was really co with me, helping me me memorize the lines because again I was so rusty.

So yeah, it was Yeah, it's not.

Is that anything that would have been on your radar for this year at all?

Like not just to have a role in a show.

It could have been a cameo.

It could have been like a one you know, like a one extra something like that.

But to be to have that kind of arc in this huge of a show and your character, should we do spoilers in this episode?

If y'all haven't watched the latest season, every sing I watched it.

Hey, okay, we we can add like a spoiler alert, but.

Tell tell bea fan about the show, like if they haven't watched Reasonable Doubt yet, because you all need to.

It's on Hulu.

You can binge it.

You know, I didn't even watch seasons what is it th season?

So I'm in season three a Reasonable Doubt.

I did not have the patience.

You got to catch up everyone, and you got to watch one, two, and three because you get you get deeply connect to the characters.

But what I loved about our season is that we got to really really focus even more in the case.

At least that was from my perspective of season one and two.

I feel like we focused a little more on Jack's and her family, and we still get that in season three, but we dig into the case even more.

We build this ensemble around Ozzy, so we get to and Ozzie is the person that that that we're every every season focuses on someone who is on trial that Jack's is defending.

And for season three, Jacks is the badass partner of a.

Lot black woman.

Just she's the attorney that you want to have, that you want to hire.

You probably can't afford, but but you want her.

And so I get to play Ozzie's sister.

And I could never if you would have told me last year that I would book a nine episode show as a guest star on Hulu's hit show Reasonable Dow.

That's epeed by Larry Wilmore and Carrie Washington and produced by a slew of other incredible people and show ran by one of the best black women I've ever met, Rama Mohammed, with an all black writers room like so many like all black department heads and just black women directors.

I would have laughed.

In your new hometown, you didn't have to even travel nowhere, No Georgia.

Like yeah, literally up the street.

We shot at Eagle Rock in Norcross.

So yeah, it was such an incredible experience.

And I was doing my best to be present because I struggle with that just as an anxiety girly like just always thinking about the future and trying to figure out what's next.

I was really trying to hold myself accountable to be present.

Every day I got to be on set was a blessing.

Whether I was just sitting in the courtroom and didn't have lines at day, or whether I was like actively going edit with my brother with Kyle Berry or having a love scene with Tim Joe, like whatever it was, I was so happy and grateful to be there and knew that the opportunity would come to an end eventually, so I really wanted to just soak up every moment.

And then I mean, I only had to wait a couple months and then we aired, and that's not typical, like usually you have to wait a year before the show comes out, and we waited just a few months, and then I got to relive that entire experience in a new way, getting to see how each episode was edited, because we read the scripts and we perform, but we don't get to watch anything, so we don't know how like what scenes are going to be cut or tweaked, or how they're going to rearrange different scenes in the episode, and so all of that was just a roller coaster ride for me.

As a fan and as an audience member, but also getting to watch myself as Kristen as this character.

It was.

It was an amazing, like out of body experience that I wish forever.

I know I gave you some ship for that one line.

I couldn't get over it.

D Daniel, No, what lights your fire?

Oh?

What light?

I know?

Come on now?

But No, we love the writers, we love the Yes, it's such a juicy role too.

And for if you love any I love.

I love drama, but I also love suspense and the who done it?

Of it all.

I like to be guessing.

I like to as you can tell, I was like texting you like was it you?

It was?

It wasn't.

Yeah, you did a good job making me look like a fool.

It must have been so fun.

But if you love any kind of show where it's like who done it?

Then you will love reasonable that.

It's sexy, it is empowering, it's satisfying.

It's just such a juicy, juicy, juicy show.

But let's back up a little bit.

Howard Alum, you grew up in Cincinnati.

You find your way to Howard also proud Delta Delta Gurly, Yes, talk to me about your early Do you went to Howard Did you go for film?

Was that your ambition to be an actor?

No?

But a story I don't think I've ever told publicly is that I was rejected from Howard's Theater School.

I actually auditioned that I went to Howard's Theater School.

And so this is a brown A Vision exclusive.

But my dad likes to tell the story.

And he drove me up to DC while I was in high school and I auditioned, and my anxiety got a hold of me.

I totally like forgot my monologue or whatever I had to do with at the time, and I had been preparing and preparing and preparing and just completely just lost it in the room and tried to recover, of course, but blanked out.

I remember walking out of the Fine Arts building and my dad was right there, and I just like started falling, and you know, you still have hope that like maybe you'll gain maybe they'll see paths that but I did not get in, and so I was trying to figure out what was closest to performing arts or what's something that I could do.

My dad's a writer, He's an author.

He was a columnist for years and an editor, and so I actually ended up pursuing journalism, and I pursued broadcast journalism for my first year and did not love it.

So I ended up changing my concentration to advertising my sophomore year and graduated with a major in advertising in the School of Journalism and a minor, a double minor.

I didn't know you were a journalism girly too.

Yeah, I know, I know.

And then I minored in theater in history, so I was able to still get my love for theater through through my minor.

But God works in my serious ways, because I ended up leaving Howard with almost like twenty short films under my belt as an actress, but also learning the craft of producing, which I didn't know that's what I was doing at the time at the time at all.

But I was casting.

I was like finding locations, we were figuring out crew.

We weren't doing contracts back then because it was just us students.

But like, I learned how to how to operate a sound and like was learning about cameras with my friends.

But because I was in the school of communications and not Fine arts, and communications was at the bottom of the hill, and Fine Arts at the top.

I was with all of the aspiring filmmakers, and so they were always looking for actors and actresses and they didn't want to go all the way up to Fine Arts, and fine arts students were, you know, focused on theater, and so I became like the go to actress at Howard.

And it's crazy because a lot of the fine arts students even now, they think that I graduated with the major in theater because I was around them all the time.

But then I was also like the actor and everyone's short films, everyone's skits, and and I don't know if I would have had that same opportunity if I would have actually majored in theater.

So I got to really learn about filmmaking by being in the school of Communications, and I'm thankful for how that worked out.

Wow, hey, ba fam, we got to take a quick break, pay some bills and we'll be right back, Okay to unpack that.

So, while you're at Howard, you're you're rejected from the from getting into that theater program, which you're still there.

You're nearby, and you're building these relationships with your peers who are doing these creative projects, and I feel like we'll talk a little bit about the importance of building those relationships.

And as someone who, like you've talked about, you know, struggles with anxiety, I have been very transparent with ba fam y'all know Hella introverted, very anxious girl like dealing with that but having to overcome that.

Can you talk about how you overcame that to build those relationships and that reputation for your craft early in your career.

Yeah, I wouldn't even say that I over came it.

I do think it's actually progressively gotten worse, if I've become more assault.

But I think I used it.

I definitely used it because I would still perform, and I'm technical, I technically have like performance anxiety, but I would still figure out a way to perform and push through it.

I don't know if that was the healthiest thing back then at the time.

And now I have a you know, a psychologist who can help me through with coping techniques, but back then I didn't necessarily have that.

But I also had a crazy, crazy work ethic.

And sometimes when you feel like you may be lacking in talent, like I think, if you have a very strong work ethic, it can almost like balance itself.

Out and that's at least how my my career has been.

But I worked really really hard at Howard on the academic side but also on the social side.

And I don't know how I did that.

I guess I just didn't sleep, I guess.

But like I graduated as a loutatorian.

I just I studied abroad in London because I was going to graduate early and I didn't want to.

So they said, you're a whole semester and half ahead.

So I was like, let me just go to London and study theater since so I can still graduate with my class.

And I think because I'm an only child, I craved friendship.

I craved sisterhood.

I craved relationships in general.

And I was also struggling to find my identity when I left high school.

I grew up in an all white neighborhood.

My school was diverse, but the classes that I that I took, I was one of two to three black folks in our in our class, and so I was very brainwashed as a kid.

And even though I had a father who was an activist for black economic powerment, I was just in the sunken place and I was like wanting to detach from that and rebel against what my dad was teaching me.

And I remember when he my mom actually encouraged me to go on the HBCU college tour.

I didn't want to go, but I ended up going, and that's when my eyes were open to Howard, to Spelman to fam We traveled everywhere, and I remember getting on Howard's campus and I was like, Wow, it touched my heart in a way like I didn't even know what I was missing until until I stepped on to Howard's campus.

And I think when I got to Howard, I was wrestling with a huge identity crisis, and Howard forces you to confront all of those things on the academic side, but especially on the social side.

I didn't know much about fraternities or sororities, or the history behind it, the importance of them, especially when connected to HB and I decided to pursue dust stigma data authority Incorporated and everything that I learned from pledging, but also the relationships I made that I'm still deeply indebted to so many women who have changed my life, changed the course of my life because of principles that they taught me, and they continue to instill in me.

I met my best friend Shamiel McKay, who's my twenty six on my line through Delta, and I can't imagine life without her.

Like Delta Howard, all that entire experience, the entire four years.

I always tell people it's the best four years of my life.

It changed who I am as a black woman and just instilled so much heritage and power and confidence in me that I didn't have when I was eighteen.

I'm so happy for baby Kaya, I know, for everyone who gets that experience.

Yeah, I had to do.

I had to together in HBCU experience within a PWI.

I went to University of Georgia and I'm so indebted to Black Uga because it really was.

I feel like they should put Black Uga on the list of HBCUs, but like not an official one obviously, but the community is so strong and so like once I found that pocket within Uga and I didn't, I'm so I mean the fact that you had parents who were pushing you toward HBCUs like my parents, I know about all that.

Like I was so ignorant in a way, but I was lucky enough to have been in that safe space and sisterhood and like that, you know, and our stories really overlap in terms of being like going to schools where yes, they can be diverse, but when you get put in those like ap classes and all that, for whatever reason, you become the only chocolate ship in the pancake.

Yeah.

Yeah, it was so I could really just relax.

And I didn't feel like I had a place where I could relax and just be me and understood until that experience.

And yeah, that's just beautiful.

And I wasn't say more.

At Howard.

I went to Howard and there was so many different types of black people there were, and we were smart.

It was like, okay, let's get this out of the way and we're all smart.

It wasn't like in high school it's the smart kids Black kids against the kids that aren't in AP or IB classes.

Like it was very weird, and so at Howard it was like, hey, that's the standard.

What else can you do?

What are your hobbies, what's your personality?

Where are you from?

And how does being from LA differ from being from Baltimore and getting to see those groups of people.

And then we had Ohio Club and Georgia Clubio Club.

Oh yeah, I was Ohio Club.

Okay, that's the cool thing.

It's like we're all black, but like let's let's dig deeper and like figure out, you know, who we are as people.

And it was an incredible experience.

For sure, you're learning about Africa and he's like in math, which is wild.

I have sometimes fantasized about just going back to an HBCU, like getting a master's or something, just make maybe I'll just you know, just show.

Up like you did, just like be like that Howard homecoming.

I never know, am I allowed?

I'm not what.

Okay, we're gonna go.

We gotta go, you know.

I well we went this year and then my mom got a car accident the first thing we got there, so didn't get to go.

But I got to make up for that next year.

So maybe we can go.

We can get Oh my god, I would love does it taste?

I will think that COVID But they're starting to get there, they're getting better.

But you'll get a look being in a sea of folks that look like you and just like it's amazing.

So you're in that you know, happy bubble of Howard and then I'm not surprised to hear that your anxiety got worse as you got older, the same because life gets harder.

They don't tell you that it gets harder and you get to really those younger years because it gets so much more complex and the stakes get higher and the pressure it builds.

So then fast forward, you know, five ten years from Howard, where are you at in your career and do you feel like you're you know, you are doing Baby Kaya proud in terms of like where you've ended up at that point.

Because I'm so hard on myself, I've had to release the timelines of life and where you think you should be.

Because if I looked back and I really thought where I would be at twenty five or twenty eight, then I'd be like, no, I didn't I didn't get there.

But then I look at the different things I've done.

I never would have dreamed that I would raise or be able to win a grant four million dollars to make a film in a year, and then hit two strikes so then have to make the film in five months.

I wouldn't have even been able to conjure that scenario up.

So yes, I do think that baby Ki would be amazed at what she did.

Would it have been the ideal timeline or looked like exactly what she no, but her mind will be blown because she would be like, you did what and you're doing what?

Okay, Okay, a pivot for sure, But I like you know so, and I like that, and I'm starting to accept that, like my life it is not it doesn't necessarily look like what I thought it would.

But I have so many people who message me or text me or reach out to me and they're just like, oh my gosh, I wish I could do this or how did you do this?

Or kaya, and you represent so many you know, what we want to do in the Southeast as a filmmaker and like man raising a million dollars from from Georgia, like as from being a filmmaker in Georgia, that that doesn't happen, and so or even actors like you have an audition in four years and you're booking nine episodes?

How like what?

Who did you know?

And it's like it's not this, not that, it's like it's beautiful, and I like that My life and my opportunities have come from like trusting the process and kind of just going with I don't want to say going with the flow because there's a ton of hard work behind all of this.

Even how my reasonable doubt audition came came from two and a half years of work and building a relationship with the casting director.

But yeah, I still every opportunity has come from something from a seed that I sowed prior, and I get to see it blown maybe three years later, or five years later or ten years later.

And I think that's the beautiful, bittersweet part of life, because you know, we want answer, gratification, we want things to happen like now or yesterday.

I think you're such a testament too, like you said to making those in those small little investments, whether it's time or relationship building early and not really knowing where they're going to lead you, but just you know, leading with integrity and with your creatives spirit.

And I know that it wasn't necessarily like a linear path.

It wasn't like you graduated and it was like acting job to acting job, like you you worked at Deloit.

I don't think it gets more corporatety than Deloit.

You know, like a huge it's you know, but at the same time, can you talk about while working nine to five how you continued to flex those creative muscles, writing, producing, making films.

How did you make that happen while you were working full time.

I'm not trying to promote not sleeping, because everyone should be getting seven to nine hours of sleep a night, but yeah, I did not do that.

We just want the truth.

Right after college, I so I had it eight to five, and then a nine to five I mean, and then a five to nine or five to nine or five to twelve, whatever you call it.

So I got into producing officially in twenty six, twenty seventeen, And again I was doing it before that, not calling myself a producer, not really knowing what I was doing.

But twenty seventeen is when I officially got into it and produced a web series Caught Outlandish with no budget that garnered well over a million views, and we ended up having opportunity to pitch to Easter Ray Productions, and it became this like it's thing.

Really That's where I kind of became like the go to producer in Atlanta and then went to Then I produced thirty short films and short docs, narrative branded content, et cetera, and then got into features.

So basically, as soon as you clocked out, as soon as you clocked in to everything.

Else exactly, and you have to.

And so in weekends, I never had a weekend.

I sacrificed a lot, a lot, a lot a lot right after college, like I put relationships on the back burner, both platonic and romantic, like I, and I look back in some things I regret, like not going out with friends, or not building some of the friendships or retaining some of the friendships, like even that I had Howard.

We have a Howard community here in Atlanta, and I didn't really build on those.

I'm like I should have because I was obsessed with my career.

And after I got home from Deloitte, and this was you know, pret remote days.

So I was going into an office with no windows in the CDC doing federal health consulting, and I did that, got home, and then I would clock in and figure out what I was going to do producing or I was working on acting, like getting headshots done, submitting to agents, doing self tapes.

I was doing both of those things, and every minute, a free time that I had was devoted to that, to building that career.

And so then we fast forward, you know, to the million dollar grant It's like that director of that project reached out to me because of the work I did for those years prior, for all of the projects before he saw a project that I had produced that went to Tribeca and said, oh my gosh, got a mall, Then I know she can get Marta, which we can.

We can dig into color book later, but as a location, yeah, exactly.

So he's like, what in a short film a mall in Georgia?

Then okay, yeah, she can get Marta.

But you know that was a seed planted for that, and there's just seeds of punk seeds bun Sea's planet.

But like, if you want something bad enough, you gotta figure out how to survive, but then also how to how to pursue that Plan A and make sure your Plan B doesn't become your Plan A.

And that's what I was starting to feel with Deloitte when I was approaching my fourth fifth year, which is why I did, like a code Turkey quit two weeks after I got a mortgage, I bought a condo, and I quit two weeks later.

Note take me to that.

Wait, you're leaving all these crumbs.

I need to pick some of these up.

Okay, I know I want to come back to but I want to come back to you.

I want to double click on ew gross, I just used that.

I want to double click.

I don't think it gets more corporate bro than double click.

Where did that come from?

I kind of liked it.

I think the system is poisonous, like it got into my brain.

But I wanted a break visual.

I want to come back to producing because I want to know.

I want you to define producing and the way that you produce because I know it can mean a bunch of different things.

But right quick though, I wasn't sure when you eventually like quit Deloitte and then you know full time went into the creative part.

But yeah, tell us about that, Yeah, two after you got a mortgage?

What I was inspired to quit and walk out on faith because I had tested for my first series regular role on the acting side in twenty twenty one.

What does that mean you tested for your Yeah?

So series regular is like the highest type of role that you can get in TV.

So like I wasn't a series regular on reason with that of the guest star and then there's like recurring co star, and then there's co star, but the highest is a series regular, right, and so this was at this point in twenty twenty one, the highest point of my career.

I had done an initial audition, I had done a callback, and then I did a director session with the director of this new show and it was for a series regular role.

And then I found out that I would be testing and it was during COVID.

So usually when you test for a role, they fly you out to LA or we're in New York wherever, and you actually do like camera tests with the other characters, or the directors get to give you live feedback, and we didn't get to do that, so mine was on zoom.

But you negotiate all of your terms.

You get an attorney and like, you negotiate all of your terms before you do the test session because they want to know, like, hey, it's everything kosher before we like you and then we and then we lock you in.

But by this time it's usually like two to three people that they're looking at.

It's all arbitrary.

But typically what I've seen is like it's down to like you are.

You are one of the choices, you know, and your life could change because the numbers that were attached to what I was gonna get paid per episode.

My life was going to change.

It would have been very easy to lead Deloitte.

So I killed my test session, like I remember, I had to do like forty pages of like memorize forty pages and do it live because they actually had me read for multiple characters, and I knocked all the characters out, like I remember, killing it.

And I got this idea in my head and I was like, you know what, I know my life is about to change in two weeks, like I'm going to I'm going to lead Delay.

It's time I've been wanting to do it.

There's no better time because if for some reason, I don't get this, which I didn't even I couldn't even fatho my head that I wouldn't get it, but I will.

This is a like it'll be a great reason for me to quit.

But I know if I wait and I find out I don't get it, then I'm gonna stay here out of just fear, and I'm going to continue to work at a job.

I said that I was gonna quit after two years.

I said, I wanted to meet my signing bullets.

You know you have to if you don't stay for two years and you have to give your signing bonus back.

I said I was gonna stay for two years, and I was out and somehow, I don't know what happened, like and we and if we get into money money.

I did not get a four one K, which my parents were so upset about because I was like, I don't need that.

I want all my money to go in my pocket.

And they they matched.

Oh they had a great I think they matched like eight percent.

And I was like, so you had access to it, but you didn't invest into it.

Now I did not, and I stayed for five years.

Yeah, don't do that, kids, But yeah, I uh, I did the session.

I thought I killed it.

I put in my two weeks at Deloitte.

Thought they were going to like grovel with my feet and asked me to stay.

But it was like, oh no, send us your laptop back, Hey, exit interview.

You you're out.

I was like what, No, I'm okay, I'm really just a cog.

We got a hundred more like it.

Literally bye, And I was like, it's okay, because I'm going to get a call that I booked this show.

And I remember getting the call for our manager.

I was actually in Greenville with my parents and I had had a I had had something similar My first role I ever booked, I got cut from on the day of my fitting, and I went into like one of the deepest depressions.

I had never felt anything like that before.

And that was bad because I actually booked the role and signed the paperwork and then I got dropped the day in my fitting for someone who had more credits.

That was my first credit.

This was a different feeling because I knew I had made like a huge mistake and had to figure out how to pay a mortgage with maybe like three months.

So you did not get the role.

I did not get the role.

It got down to me and one other girl, and they chose the other girl, And yeah, I found out in my mom's kitchen and I remember like crying and just it was off.

It was awful.

I still would say the first time that I got, like when I got dropped from the fitting, was worse.

But after two big blows like that, you start building this like callous of from so much rejection because we self tape all the time and we don't hear anything, we don't get feedback, we don't get like good job.

Our agents will if you have a good team.

Then they'll watch your tapes and give you some feedback, which is very which is awesome, but from casting directors, from producers, you rarely hear anything back unless you're actually moving forward.

And so we're submitting hundreds of auditions a year, pre strikes and pre COVID.

But I remember one year I submitted like one hundred and twenty auditions in the year, didn't hear back from any of them.

And we're taking time off work to set up a self tape, to find a reader, to sometimes pay to coach, and to pay for someone to read, and it takes up hours of your time and you don't hear anything.

And so I was tired of it, and I was like, I'm gonna do filmmaking full time and really build up my production company.

I had already set up my LLC and my S Corp.

And I was just like, let me just this is the perfect opportunity to just pour all my energy into that.

I don't care about acting anymore at the time, That's what I said to, you know, to cope.

But I was like, I'm going to stop this.

And then Color Book came.

That opportunity came, and I was like I'm going to focus on this one.

So, yeah, it was sad.

It was sad, but I think I so I told someone else.

There's an article recently, but the director who directed me in that test session is a producing director of Reasonable Doubt, and so I got to see him on my first Dafts on set, walked up to him, and I don't think he remembered me at the time, and I got to tell him eventually, like I think I told him maybe like a few episodes later, and I was like, you know, I was, I auditioned and test it in front of you, and you directed me for this role in this show, and it was just like the most serendipitous moment of just wow, you know, and like, yeah, it took four years, but this was a full circle moment really, And he's one of the best people I've ever met and most talented producers and directors.

Anton Cropper, Yeah, I.

Can't think of a more relatable and heartbreaking, kind of crushing story that I know listeners like I know myself.

I can think back to those times in my career where the rug has been pulled out from beneath you and it feels like, well, the signs are telling me that this is not the path for me.

So I'm going to set that to the side and go in this new direction.

And I don't even want to say it's not giving up.

I think it's a healthy way of coping.

I think the pivoting that you did to take care of yourself and to flex some other muscles to build those relationship as a filmmaker, I think that that it all matters.

It all kind of adds up to whatever that next opportunity is.

But God, I just empathized so much with where you were at in that moment, and I'm just so it's very encouraging and courageous of you to pick yourself up and to keep going.

It's hard, it reminds me.

But it allowed me to take a break and come back to acting in a healthy way because I used to have this feeling of desperation every time I taped, and that you can see that when you're auditioning.

And I also got to learn more about what it looks like on the other side of acting because when I cast Color Book, we worked with one of the best casting directors here in the Southeast, or Eric Rbold, who ended up being the casting director for reasonable doubt, but I hired her to pass our film color Book, and I got to see how it worked on the other side of getting the tape sent to us and saying, hmm, can we get some more tapes or no, you know, and we're getting what the casting director is saying.

So hundreds of people are submitting to her and her team, and then we're getting maybe twenty tapes, and so we're getting to look through those, and some directors, like like our director for Color Book, he wanted more, so he would be like, no, send me fifty, send me a hundred.

So we get to really look at the entire pool of talent.

But on TV, like you don't have time, directors are like watching tapes quick, quick, quick, So they're trusting their casting director to have sifted through hundred thousands of submissions and picking the best folks for the role.

And that helped me kind of separate myself from being this like hungry talented artist, like I deserve every role that I auditioned for, and like, first of all, there is a middle person in between this of you seeing like this getting getting sent to the producers or directors.

So just because you submit a tape, doesn't mean like a going to be automatically seen, but also there's a thousand reasons why you don't get a role.

We audition so many talented people for color Book, and then something else happened where it's like, oh, this person or this person, and it was completely out of their control.

And my heart went out for every person who was pinned.

Or when you're pinned, you really think you have a chance, and you do, but things went a different way and I was on the producing side of that, And so now that I'm back acting again, I'm able to do it from a much healthier mindset and know that, like, I'm doing this audition, but I'm just gonna have fun with it because it may get seen by the producers.

It may not.

This casting character may watch ten seconds of it, they may watch all of it.

But that's not I can't control that.

I can just control like having a good audition, having fun, and putting out my best work and that's it, you know, continuing to make relationships on the producing side and on the casting side, because I have seen that work.

I feel like what you're talking about is detaching your self worth and detaching like your idea of success up into this one decision that is truly out of your control.

And I think that's so applicable to anyone.

I don't care if you're an actor, you're a ux designer, a software engineer, a teacher, and you're applying for something like so many people are right now in this job market, you know, sending out your self tape, sending out your application linked into the nether.

Y hire someone.

I'm like, what I know you know about LinkedIn?

Yes, and you never hear back, or if you're lucky, you know, if you get an automated response from a bot saying you've been passed over and you can't And it's so hard, but it's important to learn how to disassociate from it a little bit and not tie up your It's not like you are inherently undeserving or worthy or not talented.

It's just out of your control in a lot of ways.

Exactly.

Yeah, Hey, ba fam, we got to take a quick break, pay some bills, and we'll be right back.

All right, ba fam, We're back as a producer.

Can you can we go back to that where you're talking about producing, because you talk about like, you know, getting a getting a mall or getting MRDA for a film.

You're very hands on producer, like really helping build the well.

You tell me, as a producer, what do you do day to day?

And like for someone who's interested in pursuing that, would you talk about that job.

I wish there was another word for the type of producing that I do and that others do, because producers this very vague word that you know, anybody can get nowadays, Like people put celebrities on on projects that may not have done any hands on producing, but you know they are using their likeness and their network or money or whatever resources and they can still get like the big p producer credit is what we call it.

But what I do and what I have done on projects is exactly what you said, be very hands on.

And so I like to explain to people who haven't heard what producing is.

I tell them to, like look at the credits at the end of the movie, and it's a lot of them, typically even a short film.

And if you look at those, the producers are the ones hiring all of those people and making sure everyone on that list works well together and is all clued in on the vision, the creative vision for what our leader, which is our director wants and so, and our job is to protect our cre the creative vision for the director.

So that as far as like actual tangible things, I can name a few of them, but like we're in charge of setting up our all of our accounting, so like getting our accounting team together in payroll and hiring an attorney in or lead team to be able to go through to create contracts for every single person that's going to be in our crew.

We are in touch with the project from like the time that the script is born all the way to wherever the film ends up living, whether that is being distributed on Apple or through with Neon or A twenty four, or it's just going through film festivals, or it has an impact campaign and shown in schools and by nonprofits, et cetera, et cetera.

Like the producer is with the project the longest, and we touch every single part of production.

We touch the cast, and we touch the crew above the line crew and below the line crew, and us as like big p producers, we typically are also on set every single day where you have some like vanity producers who are just who you know.

They show up like once or twice, and that's it, but like I'm on set every single day in the trenches with the team putting out fires.

And I will say I've seen this more in like indie projects because we don't have as much money or resources where we can just like sit by monitor and chill.

But we're usually like putting out fires.

And I've said, like we're firefighters because there's always going to be a fire on every production and it's our job to make sure that the director is able to keep going and direct their scenes and get what they want, and we're kind of protecting them from all the madness that's happening around them.

You're like a COO exactly, chief operating office.

Yes, exactly, Yeah, exactly, Okay.

CEO is a visionary Yeah, COO is executioner all the pieces and.

You're out catering how averyone's going to eat or like how many chairs that people are going to have to for extra to sit, you know what I mean.

And this is if like you don't have a look, you don't have money to have locations, person or it it is.

It's a it's a role that like encompasses in and everything, but you're getting more, you're getting it done.

And how do you get paid?

Do you get paid?

Have you been paid for that kind of work or is it like after your eyes got so big?

Yeah, So like short films, which I don't typically produce anymore because my rate is just to my rate is usually like half the budget of whatever the short film is, okay, and so I just can't have any.

As I have a project as a producer, You're like, here's how much it would cost for this project for me to be.

So Yeah, what I've how I've like structured everything now is like I become one as a producer or a co producer or an associate producer or a consulting producer, and we can do different rates depending on that.

If I'm coming on as like a big producer, I already know that, like sometimes my fee can be deferred, it'll be wrapped up and like if we sell the film or like I can get equity your back end like points on the back end.

I but but going forward, I will I'll have a fee that I want to get.

I know, I want to get paid this much upfront, and then I'll have fun or money that I will want on the on the back end as well as part of like ownership of the film.

So when it sells and when it's streamed, I'll continue to get paid on a project that I've worked on for years or I'm still working on even when it's it sells.

That's the goal, right, But I have not had that opportunity necessarily yet.

Like Colorbook, for example, we are in the process of trying to sell that.

So if and let me just say when it sells, because it is, you know, that's when like I deferred a lot of my rate, which I will not do again, but I deferred a lot of my rate.

And so once our investors get paid back, then everyone who has deferred pay gets to paid back, and then the waterfall begins of back end of like depending on how many points you have.

If you have one percentage point of the producer's pool, it gets really heady, but you get a percentage of whatever you own of the film as the film continues to make money over time.

And then yeah, I do a lot of consulting though too, Like I'll come on and for like a thousand dollars if they have a budget of twenty five thousand dollars, and I'll be there to consult.

That doesn't mean I'm going to be on set every day or at all, but I'll be consulting and helping them with their budget or doing story or script notes or whatever they might need.

Or I'll do an hourly rate, or I do a page count rate if they want me to focus more on their script and do like intense script notes.

So they have a lot of different ways I can.

I can make it work for filmmakers.

I'm curious about you know, over those four years, obviously Color Book beautiful film, by the way, I had the opportunity to.

See that much premiere Mandy came to the world premiere.

Yes, yeah, it's such a gorgeous film.

Father Son Story in Atlanta Story.

It was very like talk about Marta and the filming that you did there.

And you're with these films for so long, like getting a little view into what you've done, and then what my brother who's been on the show has done, like he's in the film scene as well, and you just you make these projects and then you are like on the road showing up at festivals all over the country if you're lucky, right, but then you're paying your own way most.

Of the time.

Day, why are we doing that?

I don't know, you.

Know, because if I get asked to go to a conference to talk about doing.

You're getting paid to do it.

Yeah, you know, for the most part, when you get to a certain level, right and yeah, but y'all have it's such a love of the craft right to do that.

But it's also a huge investment of time and money.

Yes, And at the same time, you're having to make ends meet somehow, So can you talk about some of the like the bridge opportunities bridge jobs you've had if you've been just like cobbling together different you know, contract or part time work, or have you gone back to full time to make those ends meet while pursuing the creative passions.

Yeah, I'd say the past four years, Like the first year I left Delois, I had some savings.

It like really helped sustain the beginning of me trying to build a production company.

And I actually was surprisingly getting a lot of contract work.

Like I did some work for Rolling Stone, which is really cool.

I got to produce some like the Musicians on Musicians segment with Big Boy, and I've worked with Flomilly and lot Lotto and like, and I did some short doc work that I got paid decently on and I worked with this company called Straight to Tel in Atlanta that had me like on retainer making COVID uh like we were demnking de monking debunking COVID myths about about the vaccine and so like I was on retainer with them, like doing lots of different projects.

I got to make a short film about black women in fibroids that I also was on retainer on with this company.

Like so I was.

I was steadily working, I'd say, like the first two years, and then once I took on color Book, I had to stop everything because I like it took up one hundred percent of my time and I knew that I was not going to make any money for that like year.

Because you had deferred your pay right, which we said we won't do again.

Now we won't do again, and it won look at me when you.

Say, I have been exactly where you are.

But yeah, yeah, I will not do again.

I would not do again.

It's like writing my book, because you get a book advanced, but you don't get that money until you do the book, and it takes a lot of time to do the book.

I just saw that and energy, So.

You got to let shit go that makes you money to do the thing that I'll make you money in the future.

And in the meantime you're like, but then if.

I'm guaranteed with film, because like we haven't sold the film and it's been almost three years, you know what I mean.

So yeah, and then even if you sell it, you have to sell it for starting out so that you even continue to have to pay your investors back.

So like.

You know, at these streamers out there now, you would think that there'd be even more opportunity to sell a project like that.

Can you talk about like what is the landscape like right now?

It's not good?

It's not good.

Which is I was gonna say like the first years were good and then I'd say, like this last year and a half to two years has been rough, and I've made If you look at my tax returns, it's awful, like awful.

It's crazy to think, like, oh, I was twenty three making this much.

I was on my way to making well over six figures at Deloitte, you know, doing the job I hate it, and now I'm like doing what I love and just like you know, got food stamps, all all the things, you know, and so It's been hard because, like, like I said, you look at baby Kaya and I'm like looking at my life, and I'm like, I wanted to be married by this time.

I wanted to do this, by this time, I want to have kids.

I'm like, I can't even I'm trying to figure out to take care my own self.

And I'm just now getting back into dating after like not dating for five years and sacrificing that part of my life.

And so yeah, I actually had to swallow my pride.

I was door dashing and uber doing uber eats for a year and a half, two years, I'd say, like right after we finished Colorbook That's when I started doing that.

And then I got in a bad car accident January January of this year.

So I do think that was a wake up call for me to stop doordashing because it was not not only was it not glamorous, but it just wasn't safe.

And I didn't have a car for five months, so I had to figure something else out.

But I recently started working part time at a wellness studio in Buckhead called Pause, and it's actually been really great for me so far.

I've only been there for five weeks now, and I felt so free in my interview process for the first time because I was just very honest about everything.

They know that I am a filmmaker, creative, They know that I am burnt out for producing, and that I really wanted some part time, like stable work, and I wanted to do it in a field that was going to be beneficial for me and my health because I'm getting older and I'm like dealing with a lot a lot of things that I just didn't know I would have to deal with, Like I have high cholesterol.

Now I'm like, what is going on?

And then we could talk for like another hour, But dealing with endometriosis and HPV and my short film, my solo directorial debut that's coming out next year, is all about that, and I'm like, Okay, I need to really pour in her.

Yes, yes, yes.

You wrote are you acting?

No?

No?

No, not acting with pine Apple Cut Pictures.

Yes, we hope heard that project.

But yeah, I So it's been it's been nice, and I've had to, like like I said, just kind of pull my egos aside and be like you know what, Yeah, I'm gonna Yes, I just got finished with nine episodes of A Reasonable doubt, but that's not going to sustain me for the next year, you know.

So I got a and I was already so behind before I booked a reasonable doubt financially, that like reasonable doubt helped me get here, you know, just here.

So I'm like, I need to get here so I can get here.

Like residuals are happening.

No, no, I mean hopefully soon, you know, not soon, but but I don't know.

I've heard the streaming model is so different as well, and that there's not a lot of residuals that come from streaming, so who knows, but that won't come for a while.

So yeah, I was like, let me, let me, let me do this.

But this is still giving me the flexibility to take on other work.

I actually just signed on to be a field producer for a documentary called Midwife, and it's about black and brown midwives in Georgia, the country.

They actually followed a or I think for the proof of concept, they followed a woman and a midwife in Chicago, but now they're focusing on Georgia for their feature.

And this is a director.

Her name's Mia Harvey and she she lives in the UK, but she's coming here to Atlanta for nine weeks and I'm going to be her film producer for all nine weeks and so I'm going to be doing that and I get to work my my wellness shop as well.

Oh that sounds okay.

I'm really happy to I'm really glad to hear that.

And thank you for your vulner your candid or vulner.

I hate to say vulnerability because that has some connotation of like there's some shame around it, but just thanks for the candor.

There was shame.

I know that there's easy for years.

So that's why I talk about it every interview, because like we don't talk about it enough, and it's something I struggled with for feeling unwanted and disgusting and all the things, and and it's something we should talk about because most women clear it and most people clear.

Fellow survivor, yeah, yeah, yeah, but I.

And I unfortunately have a severe strain that didn't clear by twenty five and I've you know, had to get a piece of my cervix from move in twenty eighteen because I had pre cancer.

So it was like I was like I got to talk about this because I wish I had someone talking to me about it when I was dealing with it and still am.

But yeah, yeah, not to get to you.

To use your art in a way to tell them, Yeah, and.

To use comedy because it's dark comedy.

So you're gonna laugh is watch it.

You're gonna feel uncomfortable, but you're going to laugh too, because like we got to talk about the pain with you know, a little bit of humor.

I mean, I love that you're still drawn to these projects that are very they're very feminist in nature, and they're really are tackling these issues that are central to our lives.

I mean, the idea of talking about midwifery at a time with the black maternal health rate mortality rate is so high in Atlanta, Atlanta, I'm like, that's incredible too.

Yeah, well reasonable doubt.

I know that that was such a high.

How does it feel?

I mean, with that opportunity, you're on set for those weeks and you're a part of that core community.

Do you have any insight or like advice for someone who's got this great opportunity You talked about wanting to be present on making those connections and planting some seeds during that that could potentially bear fruit, you know, down the line, while you have that opportunity.

Yeah, I think it's exactly what you said.

I think building those connections while you have the opportunity, but not doing it in a cringy like forced way.

I was just so excited every day to show up and be there early, and whether I was in my trailer or being on set or in the hair and makeup trailer like I and sometimes I wasn't talking.

I was just like letting my light and letting my like positive energy just radiate wherever I was.

Whether it was that that was intimately between the my makeup artist Yvonne, who was who was you know, beat my face, or whether that was like with my scene partner.

I just tried to like be a light and I didn't.

I never was thellowedest person in the room or trying to like ask the director of a million questions.

But I showed up and I made sure that I knew my lines and I had done my character work, so that was never an issue.

That's the first thing, like come up and show up for your job and be prepared for your job, because I have seen bad things happened when you Then that doesn't happen with other people.

But if you start there and just I think that allows you to be present because the work is already done.

You're just there soaking up people and like making genuine connections with folks around you.

And me getting to like watch Kyle Berry act or Brandy Evans act, who I had had the privilege of casting and color a book.

Those opportunities were just beautiful and and yeah, and I never forced anything.

I was just I was just there present.

Yeah, and as someone who knew you before, Like I really was able to just to to look at you but forget it was you a little bit.

I was like, but she looks so much like you in real life with the glasses and like your natural hair and like gorgeous and stunning.

But personality, why is so different?

Yeah?

And just the nature of like who killed this girl?

Who did it?

Was it her?

Could it be her?

Not my baby?

Kaya?

I don't know?

Oh yeah, yeah, Kristin has I had some dark side, but Kristen has way more.

What was your biggest like pinch me moment from the set, even before or after during shooting.

Oh that's a good question, because I feel like it's so I think it was Amy anniob who has done many episodes of It's Pure and she's the showrunner of Survival of the Thickest.

But she directed episode five, which was one of my biggest episodes.

It was my first intimate scene I've ever done.

But she face timed me the weekend before.

Like to have a TV director, as acclaim to accomplishes, she is FaceTime you and I talk to you for like an hour about your scene.

And I was in LA for my birthday, so I was already on a high, but she facetiming.

I got to talk to her and she helped me, of course, like prepare for my intimate scene and just wanted to get to know me and we got to talk and build the scene together.

I told her like, hey, I'm a little like not concerned, but like when we kiss our glasses hitting each other because Tim also wears the glasses, and I was like, I was thinking, maybe we used that in our you know, like can we actually lean into that awkwardness and she was like, yes, yes, get yes, we can try that.

Let's do it, and we did that and they kept it in the scene.

And so I think like getting to the place where a director is facetiming you and the director of a show that, like you are such a huge fan of and have done.

She's done so much work on Insecure and and helped really build that show, and now she's show run her up Survival of the Thickest.

I'm just like, I yeah, just that was a pinch me moment.

I'm like, oh, I'm really in this show.

I'm really a core character.

And that was right in the middle of the season, so I felt like I had put in enough work to where I felt like they were not necessarily like writing more for me, but every the writer's room that they knew who I was by that time, and they and who knows, I don't know if they did or not.

My boyfriend thinks they did, but I could tell they were really like leaning into my strengths and and and just building this really amazing world for Kristen to play.

In such a satisfying arc, like such a satisfying now, Like, I just I'm just so excited for you because I love stories, I love film, I love TV, I love books, all of it.

And when you have a character that gets that like big moment and a big twist and a big monologue at the end, and that it was your you know, first acting job and four years.

Just huge congrats, and you know, and I just feel, even from this conversation and just from knowing you that I know that you planted so many seeds that are going to bloom from that experience and that and I'm just, yeah, I'm genuinely happy for you too that you found this balance with this role with pause.

I can't wait to come check out still little self care baby, because you're getting to do some self care that you've been working so hard for so long.

Just what you said, I really identify with your workaholic nature in college and how that served you and how it served you in the corporate and building your early career.

And then I really truly think our thirties are like for unlearning some of the strategies that made us successful because they're not sustainable at all.

And it's like, oh, so, how do we untangle these how do we un you know, pull apart these threads this like not that we've created with all these habits and replace them with new healthier ones.

Yeah, yeah, still.

Be successful, but not in a toxic way that we're gonna like be really second ill and burnt.

Out you know, so, yeah, it's so important.

Well, I can't.

I cannot thank you enough for for sharing yourself with us at Brown Ambition and for sharing your story.

I meant it when I said your Brown Ambition personified.

I mean, look at this girl, come on now, this story?

Thank you?

Andy?

Well?

So are you?

So?

I'm inspired by you always and how you do it all and a mother as well.

I'm just like girl goals because I'm not there yet, but you truly do it all.

You just let me know I want to talk about that.

Okay, how will you interview me about that?

I'll let you know the real real line.

What can well, how can be a fan show up for you?

Right now?

We all have to go stream Reasonable Doubt on Hulu and you know, leave those reviews and talk about it and share the show.

But how else can we support any projects we can support?

Check out?

Yeah.

I don't have an announcement of where Her Pretty Vagina is going to premiere yet, but I would love if you all follow me at kaya Kiah Dot Alexandria A l e x A and d r i A and my production company at kaya Can Productions, where I will be posting all things about her pretty vaginant.

In twenty twenty six, that is going to be my solo directorial debut, so all my energy is going to be going into that.

Next year, I'll be flooding your timelines with all things women's health, INDO, fibroids, cyst HPV, all of the I love it.

I love that, and we're all gonna love it.

So yeah, I would love if you all like support that project.

Sar cast and who have been waiting like anxiously, and I'm really really proud of that project.

And I'm doing a lot of low learning like I did with acting when it comes to festivals and not getting selected for Sunday and or south By Southwest or you know, and just doing a lot of them learning with that on the filmmaking side of things now.

But I'm so excited to wherever it's going to land, and I know our premiere is going to be beautiful.

So yeah, okay, we're going to put your social handles in the show notes.

And I mean, if there's one thing I've learned, it's like show up to those film festivals and like go support your local into indie artists, because if you don't show up to those festivals.

You really can't see that outside of those festivals, which is very hard to so many of these projects right, they don't get bought and distributed.

So it's been a pleasure to for me to feel like being a little seeing a little bit of window into that space has made me want to go support these like local festivals a lot more.

And all right, so best of luck with her Pretty Vagina.

That's the short film coming out in twenty twenty six.

We're going to go follow Kaya on all social channels.

I hope to have you back on the show someday yet.

And just thank you so much, okayba Fam, thank you so much for tuning in.

I will see y'all next time.

Bye bye.

And before I go, Ba Fam, I want to shout out the team that helps make Brown Ambition possible.

Huge thanks to my fam at iHeartRadio, Katrina Norvel and Jenna Cagel, my worker Bees, behind the scenes, booking assistant Brittany Laier and virtual assistant Cameron McNair who keep organized, and of course my editor Courtney Dean.

Thank y'all so much for supporting the show.

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By ba Fam