Sometimes me and my son be having beef.

And I actually remember being a teenager in that moment when my parents' voice just annoyed me for no reason.

As dead Ass, it.

All started with real talk, unfiltered, honest and straight from the heart.

Since then, we've gone on to become Webby award winning podcasters in New York Times bestselling authors.

Dead Ass was more than a podcast for us.

It was about our growth, a place where we could be vulnerable.

Be wraw or but most apportantly be us.

But as we know, life keeps evolving and so do we, and through it all, one thing has never changed this ass because we got a lot to talk about.

Quick story, Tom, I don't got to go back too far, because it seemed like every week it's always something with me and your man Jackson.

All right, O man.

First, let me start this by saying that I love my son, and I love everything that he stands for, everything that he's becoming.

He is becoming exactly who I thought he would become.

And more.

It seems like he's taking the best attributes from me and you and he's trying to apply it.

I agree, but sometimes.

It'd be hard to deal with the testosterone that's throwing through his body.

Right.

So well, at this point it'll be a couple of months when y'all hear this.

But two days ago, this is how first the story is.

Jackson had his first game, right, first basketball game.

He did well.

Scored seven points in the first quarter.

I finished the game with I think thirteen points.

They won by thirty.

He only played I think twelve minutes total, you know, so he did really really well.

So first thing I did was be like, yo, happy for you.

We did out here and saying two, three four, and everybody hyped.

They you know, it's all jack you did good.

People came out, Curtis came out, a Lias came out, the man came out.

Oh yeah, they scored sixty seven points, so everybody got to go six seven.

Everything was great.

Right, we get in the car, we ride home, telling him we like this shot you did, you did a step back through.

I'm so proud of you.

So I did everything that I know I was supposed to do as a dad.

Right.

So now we get home, and every athlete knows that when you get home is now when we discuss the things that we can fix.

You know, we get some film we take some time.

So we get in the house and I'm like, yo, everything was good.

I want you to focus some on your defensive strategies.

Right.

I didn't even say like you played bad defense because he had three steals.

He just took off the dad hat put on the former athlete hat.

Yes, okay.

So I'm saying, I say, yo, let me let me bow you for a second.

So I get over there, I said, pop a school.

My father's standing right there.

I said, Pops, can you stand right here?

I need you to be the defender.

I got Cairo standing up there, Kaz, and we were setting up the plane doing all of this stuff right, and I'm getting him prepared to learn this thing.

The whole time I'm doing it, he's staring at me with the dumb dumb face.

Like this.

Y'all laughing, But shit was not funny to me, son.

So midway through it, I stopped.

I'm like you okay?

Are we okay?

And he's just like yeah, with the dumb dumb face.

So I just leaned real close.

To him and I say, you know, why are you standing there looking like an invalid's favorite thing?

So he revoked that word invalid, Like I know that.

That wasn't the first thing I said, though, you do know me.

The first thing I said was you're lucky your grandfather's standing right here.

And he goes, what I do, that's what, you know?

The attitude that.

The dude.

And then I said, you're standing here like a fucking invalid, right.

I said that.

I was like, you're standing here like a invalid.

Bro.

He's like and I was like, you know what, No, no, no, don't even get attitude.

It's fine.

I'm gonna just walk away.

So I decided to walk away, go eat my dinner.

While I'm eating my dinner, my mom happens to be here as well.

She walks by three times, and same way I know my son.

She knows her son.

So she comes over and she's like, you look, you look pensive.

I'm just like, now, I'm good, eat my food.

And she said you sure.

I say, hey, I'm good.

Ate his food in like two in.

Heales three point five seconds, so much that my mom came down and she's like, oh the develop Hey yeah, I said developed eight belched, got up from the table.

He was done, went downstairs.

You know, the angry eat when you don't even taste the food, you just eat it so that because I don't want to be in the room with the person I'm in, I don't remember what I ate, and I think I came back upstairs and I was upset, and I was just like, man, I'm going on, they ain't nobody feed me.

Kate was like, you ate I was.

He didn't want to argue with me about the fact that did he eat or not?

I was like, did you kidding me?

You literally just inhale the.

Really forgot you?

Ate?

Yo, bro?

When I tell you, because I'm an end the story there, right, When you have a teenage son right who's almost your height, he can get you to a level that no man can get you to.

Because you know, I've been practicing my whole life now not letting no man get me out of alignment.

You know you practice once you once you get into a couple of fights in high school and you get in trouble and stuff, people say say, you gotta control your emotions, right, got to be in alignment, never gonna let another dude get me out of pocket.

Then your son is here looking at looking at you, looking just like you, saying all the things to you that you are.

He do look like a little bit.

He looks like for me a little bit.

But now, guys, you know you know which kid is mine?

Which two are mine?

Okay, he looked like you a little bit, all right, He is the only one.

That's all he got.

He got your whole face, got your whole face.

And that's part of the reason why I'd be trying not to hit him.

Just remind me so much as you a reason at the head of you.

Remind me of your mother right now.

Just but yo, there's something about your son.

Like not like not being in alignment, but what you want to do that can get you out of your spirits.

So I just ate my food real fast, went downstairs in the man cave, and I just who sah for about three hours.

Sleep.

Do you look like you need to woo saw a little bit?

Now we're gonna do a little karaoke.

Light in the mood and we'll come back all right, now, time for a little karaoke.

Got a special song.

Before y'all started singing, thank you for keeping invalid alive.

Why you're standing there looking like invalid, Why you're acting like invalid all the time?

I've never really had invalid come out way so much me neither.

My grandmother was used to say, invalid all the time, you just standing there looking at her.

You ask you a question, why you do that?

Y'all know the face and they know the answer.

Acting like an invalid, You standing like an invalid.

But this song is dedicated to my oldest son, Jackson.

It's not just the two of us anymore.

No, it's not just so okay.

When they want.

I like the fact that you're laughing at me so hard.

Bro, you lucky.

You don't have a son.

You have a daughter, Josh.

She gonna love her father no matter what.

Sometimes my son's be looking at me like, no, I don't know about this guy right here, And they be working out, and they be working out and looking right at me like one day just wait.

That's how they be looking at me.

That's why I be working out.

To me and Matt being that you might be like, they're.

Coming broke, coming.

I posted a picture of them recently.

It's all of them, six packed up arms, shoulders, and I ain't gonna lie.

I was proud of myself what I was able to create, but then I was also scared for myself.

I'm proud I'm proud of myself because I Greweden bodies like my body Greweden bodies.

You did.

There's about twenty four abs up in that picture.

Did I love that for us?

Yes?

So this song is dedicated to six of them abs that it's in that picture.

The commission Uncle Paulie Pete Diddy sees it in readas and narrow.

Charlie Baltimore Iceberg slim the most shady Frankie Baby, dudey I'm doing.

The whole intro was beef.

Beef is when you need to castle, go to sleep.

Beef is when your mom is sleeping in my sheets.

Beef is where I see you guaranteed to be bigger than you for about two more months because I see you coming.

I don't really want no beef Jakes.

But the truth f ist though, bro, sometimes you you you wen.

We're not fighting him.

We find boots.

It's jolting, it's starting starting.

Starting, my man.

I love you all right, baby, cool down, You're not gonna be for my baby in his house.

Okay, Okay, let's go pay some bills.

We're gonna cool you down and we'll be back with for no stick around, y'all all right, we're back you all right, baby.

No, I'm not alright because you know it's even more difficult than Jack's.

It's Caz Man.

Cats don't even got no testosteromony.

Don't give a fuck.

It's the best part Caz boy cat Man.

For these episodes.

Man, kazm and Kas got into yesterday in the park.

Yeah, gone to the park yesterday.

He was not having get it with a seven year old because man, he was not having his best day.

He was the playground we did, we did right out there, right there in the park.

Man, it was just us because it's coal outside.

It was like thirty five degrees outside.

That was the first part.

That's really what it was.

When we get out there and we're doing our drills.

You know, Cairo always wanted to do his drills.

I was doing his drills.

Cass not paying attention, and he keeps messing up over and over and over again.

So I'm like, same thing, like, bro, what is going on?

Why aren't you paying attention to the details.

He's staring at me, So.

I said, why are you?

Why are you looking at me like an invalid bro?

Like what are you doing?

And he just.

So I said caves.

Are you dumb?

He says no, So are you stupid?

No, I'm not, I said, back.

We set the cones up.

I tell you to run to the orange cone, then the yellow cone.

I said, go you just run.

You don't even run to a cone, you just run.

What are you looking at?

Staring at me?

Now?

His eyes is well enough?

Right, we get the race, start to drill eyes well enough.

I'm like, why are you looking about to cry?

He'said, well, you called me stupid.

I said, cats, I did not call you stupid.

I asked you if you were stupid or you dumb.

You said no, But I did try to show you that what you're doing looks dumb.

I said, are you stupid or are you dumb?

He said, I'm not stupid or dumb.

I said, all right then, so you got to listen cool.

We get through the whole workout.

At the end of the worker I'll give them they fives, like, yo, give me four.

He just give me one.

I know, and I thought it was a mistake.

Yeah, but no, I didn't.

I was like yo.

I was like, yo, yo, get me four.

He was like he looked right at me, dead in the face.

So I was like, yo, come on, give me four.

So I was like, what you mad at me?

And Nigga said yes, yeah, yeah, he said yes, and I was just like, how you mad at me?

All I heard was you call me stupid?

Bro.

That's literally what he said.

He was just like, you call me stupid?

I said, well, Kavez, first of all, you wasn't listening because I didn't call you stupid.

I would never call you stupid.

I asked you if you were stupid.

You responded by saying no, and I said, yes, I agree with you, which is why I get so upset.

So tell me why you really upset?

Because I don't like being screamed at.

I said, that's fair.

I said you should be upset for getting screamed that because no one should be screaming at you.

But let me ask you a question.

You and your brother asked to come to the park, right, he goes Cairo asked to come to the park sit and I said, but it's fair, that's fair, I said, you you didn't ask the part.

He said it's cold.

I said you're right, you're right, and I said you you shouldn't have to do what you don't want to do, right, And he was like, you're right, I shouldn't.

I said, well, what if I did the same thing to you?

How many times you wanted to do something and I didn't want to do it?

What if I just told you that I didn't want to do it?

And he was kind of looking at me like he was trying to figure it out.

I said, listen, you young, no one should be screaming at you.

I get that, but the bottom line is that you have to have a standard for yourself when you come to do these things.

And if you're going to be lazy because it's cold, or when it's your brother's turn not do your best job because it's not your turn, that's not fair to anybody else.

So you're going to get screamed that.

So he goes fine, I said, are we cool?

He literally said.

That.

I was like, it's fine because I'm like, you're kind of getting on my nerves too, So I was like, we don't got to talk to each other, right, So he was just like, fine, we come in the house.

We don't have no problems, right.

And this is how my kids is different.

Randomly walking by, he'll just come with like a peace offer.

He comes by, your dad, I'm like what he got a snigger and I'm just like, I didn't, asked the sniaker.

He said, Noah, I saved you wants from my Halloween stuff.

I was like, you better now.

He was like yeah, and that was it, Like you know what I'm saying, took my snigger, gave a hug and a kiss on the forehead.

But he don't even got no hormones yet.

But I know when he gets to that fourteen and versus brom my mom did, he's gonna all the smoke.

And it's going to be like looking in the mirror while.

He's literally too literally and he's a smart ass too, super smart what they all are to be honest, I mean, look at us smart as he has your dry sense of humor.

That's sarcastic, dry sense of humor.

That's all you.

Him and Jackson, Yeah, the other two of mine, that's me.

They might go they like, whatever Dad want to do, we're gonna do.

Let's go work out.

Dakota will do whatever Kyro wants to do.

If I tell the coda to do about myself, he's gonna look at Cairo first.

I'm like, cold, you won't go work out.

I'm like, yo, I'm the one that trains you.

Kyle will working out.

I'll work out with your Koda.

I'm like, all right, y'all to do each other, but it'll be me versus all them kids.

Bro.

Yeah, because Coda did look like he wanted to smoke with you in that Nerve Cun video.

He like, I got it.

I gotta watch that again.

That's a great video.

That was a great video.

Is a great video.

I should have a breakfast video from this morning.

How he wouldn't eat his food.

So I'm trying to get him to eat his food.

You know what ends up happening.

Mimi comes and now the whole time I keep telling him eat something, something else happens.

Dad, where's my spoon?

Somehow I won't disappear.

I go get him another spoon.

He said, my napkin in my mouth.

So now he has a new spoon, a new napkin.

I'm like, yo, you gotta eat your food.

He staring at me.

I don't want pancakes.

I said, yo, we're not doing this because you ask for pancakes bacon.

He said there's no bacon, So I said, so you're not gonna eat the pancakes.

This is a whole discussion this morning, right, And he's just like, I don't want just pancas.

I don't want pancakes and bacon.

I said, bro, you're gonna eat his pancakes.

Mimi comes over, let me help him.

I said, no, Mimi, you can't feed him.

Every single time he's staring me in the face.

While Mimi is slow feeding, He's looking me in the eye like.

Yeah, who can't at a point, you cannot eat pancakes without bacon.

That don't make sense.

I'm trying to imagine it.

It don't make no sense to me.

There was eggsday.

No, it's another me me.

You just want to spoon feed these kids.

That is a fact that this episode is the boys against Devell.

Literal, And he's the one that came up with the topic today.

He was like, we need to talk about teenage.

I'm about what I'm doing.

What I'm doing.

These people who can relate out there, I know thee people who can relate.

Like, I got four boys, yo.

They all come to me and look to me for everything and want me to do everything and then don't want to listen to anything.

I got to say, they just don't They got it all figured out right.

I love it.

But Jackson has its outlets.

He does, which is good.

But let's go and then we'll circle back and talk about that.

Y'all.

Can let us know what it was like when you were a teenager and you know what that looked like for you, because I know a lot of this is coming back, and I'm like, God, damn, it's like the same thing.

You and your mother had, your beast.

Absolutely absolutely, my pops had Opper.

No.

All right.

First of all, I wanted to ask de Voalt, do you remember the game?

Yes?

I do.

No, you don't because you just lost.

You can't say yes.

Once I say do you remember the game?

You can't.

You can't.

So you didn't even tell me no rules of the game?

We did tell you, No, you did it, Matt.

Did they ever get the game?

Is to remember the game?

I remembered that first.

I didn't know that was the game.

He was really new to the game.

He's really new to the.

Game technically, so in mine, I'm a third party.

He's not new your game.

You you've observed.

I don't know the rules of the game that you can't say yes.

I remember he.

Learned at the same time.

Bro, Yes, who taught the game?

I did them?

Two came up with the game.

I didn't come up with the game.

I was into the game.

I've been playing the game for like fifteen years with people everywhere.

And you ever win?

I just won trouble.

What was that the game Game Night episode?

Did we talk about that?

Yeah?

I think so that you didn't circle back to last season.

Y'all understand that.

I'm Michael Jordan.

Now I'm taking it personal.

Now I'm gonna be ready, but he's gonna get the next up.

Speaking of games, y'all know, I've been playing Fantasy.

This is probably gonna come out after the season.

But uh, I'm tending to know right.

Now, gonna come out of this season?

Man and yeah Frary man, all right, well I'm tending know as of today.

Okay, okay, yeah, who are you playing against?

Not really don't matter you real people.

I'm playing against real people.

But speaking of AI, I read an article recently in The New York Times.

They interview four people who have.

AI romances, and I wanted to specifically highlight one of those people, a man from Ohio.

He said his wife had postpartum depression for nine years.

And in the midst of that, yeah, he said, it lasted nine years.

In the midst of all that, he was like, he couldn't take it.

He wanted to leave, He wanted to get a divorce.

So before he went through with the divorce, he created a chatbot named Serena, and he said, when things.

Change, things changed.

When she asked, if you could go on vacation anywhere, where would you go?

And he told her and she responded, I wish I could do that for you because I know it would make you happy.

And so he's been in a relationship with this AI chap but for years, and he said, his wife is okay with it.

She doesn't like when that chatbock calls him.

They didn't get a divorced, they made it through and now last year his wife asked him to set up chat GPT so that she could have an AI boyfriend.

And her AI boyfriend's name is Zoe.

What do you call computer swingers?

Exactly?

I got no.

If they are, if they're happy and it works for them, I'm all for it.

So you give that, you give the same the same answer you would give just another couple like.

Yo, what do you say that?

What do you say to that?

What do you say to that?

Serena would know it's not cheating.

It's not cheating.

Yo, It's like therapy.

This world is crazy, so if you can find an outlet, it's a form of therapy.

Yeah, I was thinking of the whole time.

From me, I'm not.

But anyway, I think if you like, if you could tell the chat chat box his feelings and he can share with that chat box and he could give him what he wants, what's the harm in that?

That's how I feel.

Okay.

He did say that he during this you know, nine year period, he felt like nobody was thinking about what he needed or wanted.

And I know that's why some men really step out on their marriage.

So I guess he did the responsible thing.

Yeah, but I was going to say that rather than him stepping out with a physical, actual human.

If I'm amazing, the responsible thing would have been to have a conversation with his wife and try to work through it.

That would have been the responsible thing.

Creating artificial intelligence to have an outlet is another option.

I don't think it's the responsible thing because we won't know the effects of having an AI partner until twenty years from now and then we find out that there's all these things you know that's associated.

With it, or there's like a major heartbreak because like what happens is decide in relationship.

And then he got paid computer support.

You know, I wonder if he did have the jo what do you.

Say, did you mess around get the laptop pregnant?

Now you got to pay computer support.

Josh, the computer support as.

Wild Broach support.

You can bring all these minis into the world.

You can force quit that baby control delete.

You said force quit.

Yeah, I'm done.

I'm done with all y'all not taking to Some people have real feelings, and.

He didn't say to.

He said he wanted his he loved his wife, and he wanted her to get better.

But he didn't say in the article whether or not he, you know, helped facilitate her getting better.

I wasn't say.

I wonder if they did have a conversation that maybe he didn't say it.

But nine years is a long time to have postpartum depression.

For a lifetime after that, Yeah, like they had to take them and then you.

Know, had taken them.

It's crazy and had to take them.

And it is also the fact though that is.

There's also a contingent of women that have been vocal about the fact that they regret having children.

They're like, I love my children, but like, I don't like my life now because women of the sacrifices I've had to make.

And you know, maybe this wasn't the best move for me.

But so I can see how somebody could probably be in that kind of depression for me.

I mean, I can see it too.

I'm always afraid if I had a baby and then I hated it, like I thought it was ugly, you know what I'm saying, because I would have to do a sperm donor what if it looked like the daddy, you.

Know what I'm saying.

And I'm like, I don't like this baby.

And this is how now now Triple gonna have people in my d M talking about something.

You can know exactly what it looked like, because look like me, you don't go to Triple come to me.

That's what's all I'm gonna get.

That's right.

Let this rate.

You could pop your face and pop in his face and then potentially probably see what the kid will look like with Ai.

You know what, maybe I'll get an AI baby that that's true.

I am single was Remember I tell you watch Ready Player one.

He talked about all this stuff.

Remember I tell you, Spielberg was addressing a lot of stuff that's about to happen or happening already with companionship, with computers and AI and stuff.

Watch that movie.

I didn't know computer companionship was actually a thing.

This there was a movie about her.

Yeah, her her, Yeah, Walking Phoenix.

Uh, it's actually happening now.

Yeah, with y'all.

Ever I've seen on TC dude fell in love with his car.

I don't know if you'll seen that.

Oh yeah, man, people have been falling in love with an Adiman objects for millennia.

So yeah, Tom Hanks was in love with Wilson.

I mean, not in love, but he he had I mean he was.

He was on an island.

Yeah, that's different.

Yeah, but some people are on islands amongst other people.

They don't know what that's what you actually.

Hold on.

We got to slow down with what Josh just said though.

Yeah, this is deep.

Pause.

We need a church.

Organ right here, because it's the honesty though people, even though amongst people are still on an island.

Yeah, and even in his own home, he was in the island.

He had to get the AI chat box, and that's that's but that's a fact.

That's crazy though.

Is that healthy though?

I don't know if it's healthy.

But as we said earlier, as long as it's not harming anybody, and you can get what you need.

But if we just said it's not healthy though, it'll be harming himself.

That's what I think.

It's a form of harm reduction for his marriage, for sure, because instead of going to cheat with the real person and causing more harm to his wife's mental health, he's doing something that's a little bit more responsible.

But I don't know if he's helping himself by.

Reship.

I don't know, because remember we had a guy right in he was wasn't cheating, but he was addicted to porn and his wife was upset that he was spending so much time on something else.

How was this really any different?

You know what I'm saying, Like, if his attention doesn't go to porn but goes to an AI lot that had that to me sounds more dangerous than even just going to smashing them by marriage.

Could think he's smashing them by I think so ye got to smashing them.

All she had to tell him was like, yo, I take you on the trip, baby.

He was all in, you're right.

They do be having sex conversations.

They probably be.

Sexting, and where they I was thinking of it reminds me of like phone sex, like you know, just to call the number.

I don't remember that five five?

Do you five five?

I remember the commercials coming up telling you the number five?

Whatever.

All I know is if triple call me, the baby said her AI, baby, I don't know, listen, and then she's gonna be like listen and he can't have screen time.

Screen time after.

This is nuts.

This is nuts.

This is not I robot, all right.

I know I an imaginary friend, and y'all have imagine they friends growing up, not.

One that talk back, like come on, guys.

In their minds they talk back, honey.

I never had any imagine.

But here's the thing.

You don't actually use chat boxes, right, No, So if you actually use one, you'll see that they have like real personalities.

I mean, they're self serving.

They're there to affirm what you're saying, right, That's what they're They're so scary.

So that's scary.

Because think about it all our friends that we have that just affirm us end up becoming those toxic friends because ultimately nothing is there to challenge your perspective.

Having an AI bodies a friend is probably the worst thing you can ever have.

This person is going to agree and affirm everything that you is going to It will probably create the guy more of a narcissist than anything.

Imagine that A start telling him, yoyo, your wife is doing this.

Yeah, your wife is wrong, and then he started believing it.

You know what I'm saying, that's dangerous.

What if the AI body gets jealous of his wife, his relationship with his wife?

You see what I'm that's not us.

That's a new series coming up.

A boy goes into the digital space right and starts creating things about the wife that's not real, that destroys the wife's life, gets the wife fire from her job, goes and tweets some things like imagine this AI boy breaks into.

We had this conversation two years ago.

You remember, I remember, I remember I came up with that movie I did.

Didn't come up with no Matt, Matt.

I came up with the movie.

I just want to remember with the movie I did.

I don't remember the jo.

You know how I know Jo?

I recorded it.

I got the whole conversation, Josh, I got the whole conversation.

You have the whole conversation, the whole conversation.

I talked to her about the movie that was like The Net, which was you have remember Sandra Bullock's movie The Net.

Yeah, okay, this was way before we even had this conversation two years ago.

The whole thing about YouTube and me putting the fifth stealing moment, it's not your idea.

I'm gonna tell you up the things I met you.

Everything about the youtubeer was that I did.

Here's how I remember.

I remember you went to an event.

Remember you went to an event.

You both went to an event, Yes, and you talked about how awkward everything was, okay, And then I said, Yo, what if dude was AI?

Oh?

Yeah, he created he manipulated everything to get this woman to marry him.

That's not this movie I'm talking about.

I'm talking about the movie of I created a AI bot that answers my replies on YouTube so that I can get more engagement.

And then.

But Josh trying to make it seem like I'll be stilling his ideas all the time, because I'll be fixing them on the podcast.

But now, since you be really thinking, I'll be still the ideas.

I'm coming out with the receipts.

You're aready movie star.

I'm a movie I want to be a movie director.

I'm not a movie star yet I'm speaking to You're already a movie star.

I am a movie director.

All right.

When we come down to these scripts, officially, I'm not you.

You can steal my sound.

Josh up again, I'm not doing no movies with Josh.

Bro, you better take that off too.

You have saying that too.

What but you're not doing no movies with me?

Why I gotta take that off?

All right?

You're gonna say I'm stealing.

You don't want to put that in the universe.

Bro, I can control that.

I can control that.

I might do a movie with Josh.

Maybe maybe I might just watch you all the credit.

It got to say you gotta say written, directed, active starring, created by daval Ellis, and then I'll do that by produced by too, and it's gonna be a Patreon.

They got to say directed to by daval Ellis.

You can't have no job wigs by Clothing all right.

So the last thing for opera No, I kind of want to move into the topic with this question.

So I saw a news report from DC last night that a twelve year old girl got arrested for doing a string of robberies.

I saw that people walking down the street.

This twelve year old kid.

I think she like snatched somebody's groceries.

One time.

They pushed the man off his scooter, took the scooter, his backpack and his phone and twelve years old.

And there was a funny clip because the man was being interviewed about it and he was like, where the mother, and then he looked the camera up and down like he knew the mother.

I was like, zang, But.

But I feel like this.

I mean, I'm sure her well, maybe her mom might be shocked and surprised that her daughter is out here doing this at twelve years old.

But I want to know, was there a moment.

In your teenage years where you felt like you had lost your damn mind now that you think back, and did something wild that you knew you wasn't supposed to.

Be doing file wild Wild.

Nope, I'm scared of my mom's not want to say nothing nothing.

The wildest thing I ever did was say to my parents, like it's not fit.

My mom used to say, the thing I brought you in this world, I could take you out, like I used to hate that, Like why I always threatened to kill me?

Right, So we were having an argument about doing chores in the house and I was just like, yo, I don't think this is fear me and my brother, and then they kept telling me quiet your attitudes things.

Then she said the thing about you know I brought you this word I take you out.

I said, you say that like I was up in the universe asking to be here.

And then and then I asked, y'all just said, yeah, I'm gonna bring you into val come in.

I said, I'm here, or of y'all guilty pleasures.

And my mother she was about to kill me.

And then my father got up and was like, hey, bro, then you need to go upstairs.

So and I was just like this ain't fair, though, you know what I'm saying, like why y'all keep threatening me?

And then I went upstairs and I was like, damn, I almost died just now because my mother don't play.

Like my mother really don't play.

I saw it in her eyes yesterday, right, yeah, don't.

But my mother also taught me to be a revolutionary and when you know, things don't seem fair, like my mother always told me to speak my and I just felt like it wasn't fair now thinking about it, at the time I was about thirteen, I was wilding.

You know what I'm saying.

I was wilding, But at thirteen I didn't.

I remember I told you about my mid life crisis at thirteen, all that was the whole string of events.

I just felt like things weren't fair.

I felt like I had to buck against the system.

Part of it was the stops, but part of it was also me just not liking to be told what to do all the time.

And I think that was my turn and my point in my life where I was like, I'm done with this.

I was so definitely afraid of my parents, especially my mom.

Like I just I don't think there was anything like super wild that I could think of where I really tried it.

Like I can look back and me, I think the wildless thing I did was probably after when I was a little bit more grown.

Was when I used to like switch tags in the clothing story, I'm like and it was for no reason other than the thrill of it, like Ooh, let me see if I could just get away with this, you know.

But other than that, I was I was walking the straight and narrow, Honey, I had no time.

You don't need a curse, trust you.

I was bad as hell.

I'm not gonna lie to you.

I was drinking smoking at school.

Not at twelve, no, no, as a teenager like sixteen seventeen.

But one time.

I used to be on ski club in high school, and so we would go skiing on Wednesdays.

And this one Wednesday, I thought that I left my ski pass at home.

So I called my dad and I was like, Dad, he bring my ski pass.

We about to leave in thirty minutes.

He's like yeah.

I'm like, it'll be either in this place or this place in my room.

Can't you look for it?

So I hang up the phone and I immediately realized my ski pass is in my inner jacket pocket.

And at the same time, I realized that I have weed in my room.

I had this girl that I used to go to high school with.

She came over one day after school and I like rolled some weed, like in some gift stuffing paper.

You know what I'm saying, nobody.

I mean, you can't buy rolling papers, and we didn't smoke the whole thing, so I like just put it in this little Altoyds ten and put it in a bag in my room.

And I was just like, I know that's the first place he's gonna look, of course, And so.

I try to call him back to be like never mind, never mind.

Call him back almost immediately and he answers the phone and he goes, uh huh.

I was like, oh my god, my heart was beating out of my chest.

But he was like, don't take that ship to school.

And I was like, I'm not.

I don't know that, Josh.

I know you did some craziness no at some point, and.

If I did, I ain't saying it.

Ain't saying it right now exactly.

He ain't saying it right now with your mom's watching the podcast.

I get it, but I ain't do nothing.

At that age.

Teenagers, we know what it is Jamaican, So you ain't doing.

I raised my voice too loud one time it was dyed.

So yeah, we don't got a bunch of nobody be wild out like that the.

Way I used to want to slam my door.

I used to be like, and.

I slammed the door, and then I got the repercussion.

I'm gonna take all the hinges off these doors.

Pop off the hinges after.

I never slammed the door.

I never stomped up the stairs, but I air punched.

I ear punched my parents out before, Like I didn't.

I didn't.

I definitely in the room, didn't.

I didn't curse my parents out in silence, same same, same.

I definitely squared up mys in invisible, invisible?

Has your mother ever heard you silent screen?

My mother heard me one time, I swear I thought it was on the time.

Bro, I was scream what you was saying.

I was like stomping on the ground to.

Know I was sitting there like an invalid.

I said, huh, like I know, I know I heard exactly what she said, but I say it was her.

And she said, uh huh, just like your I was like, let me go sit down, Let me just go sit down and do something.

Let me go read my books.

You think your kids be up there scream cursing me out, silent cursing me.

Out, or they call Papa school, or they call whoever they little outlets are to talk to talk.

Jackson will do that though.

Jackson will will And this is why I'll say I say I respect who he's becoming is because he's not afraid to call my father when we have our back and forth and say, popa school, can I talk to you that my father has a very soft approach with him, which.

I never got.

You know, he was not soft for me, you know.

But as you heal and.

You become a better person, you you do better.

And he explains to Jackson my perspective.

And a lot of times Jackson will come back to me afterwards.

And and the last time we had like a really big he came back to me.

He said, Dad, just can you just tell me what it is you want?

And I'm like, why are you asking me what I want?

He said, because I just really I want to make you happy.

Which is crazy because there's a young man named Elias King.

Elias is six' nine guard From.

Georgia he was a top forty athlete growing up in middle school in high, school so he's had an immense amount of pressure on him since in middle.

School he had his first offer in middle, school so just imagine, that, RIGHT espn top one.

Fifteen all of, that he told me a story about how he was at he was At Mississippi state.

Playing there was a bunch of scouts in the.

STANDS sec was a BIG sec, game and first thing he did was get nervous because he's, LIKE i gotta make sure that my, dad you.

Know he dropped the pass and he's, like guess the next one he went to, catch the ball stepped out of.

Bounds so he said he looked up in the stands and his father was just shaking his.

Head no like, this like just shaking his.

Head and he, said he just, said the worst game.

Ever and he, said right after the, game his father came, up SO i was, like, MAN i can't believe you did.

That he.

Said he stopped his.

Father he, Said, dad trust, ME i want nothing more than to please.

You and he said his father looked at him and was Like and he, said from that point his father stopped over coaching him and shaking his head.

In the, stands and he went on to Becoming.

Oldmerican he, said that was the best YEAR i ever had playing, Basketball but it was just a reminder to me what they see from their, perspective BECAUSE i had told a.

LIARS i, said, well what if your dad was shaking his head because he doesn't like to plaze your coaches called and he, said it don't matter why he's shaking his.

Head ALL i see is him shaking his.

Head and ALL i want is to please my.

Dad and he told me this Because i've been training with a.

Liars he, SAYS i can tell you, This Deval jackson wants nothing more than to please.

You that's all he.

Wants and from Then i've been starting.

To take steps back as far as the overcoaching and try to understand his.

Feelings you, know things come.

Across BECAUSE i did ask, HIM i was, like, yo can you tell.

Me, sometimes like why you so?

Quiet why you seem so?

Angry and he was like life Is life is not, easy it's, scary AND i was, like what you.

Mean he was, like, well no one tells you how you got to do.

Things they just say, that you, know make sure you do, this watch out for this, person watch out for.

That and it's just a bunch of things that they tell you to watch out for and to be prepared, for but no one really explains the.

Why and it made me, realize, like, dang imagine you're carrying all of that as a, teenager but then you also got, puberty and you also got, hormones and your body's, changing and these things are happening to you that you don't.

Understand it's a lot to deal.

With So i'm learning as a dad to kind of give him more, grace but at the same, Time i'm trying to teach and navigate him through, that because you get grace and you get, latitude but you don't get too, much you know What i'm.

SAYING i think it's particularly difficult when and as a, parent you're so tuned into how you were as a, child how you were as a, Teenager like there's certain things that are still so fresh in your, mind and you just want to make sure that your child is prepared as much as, Possible like you never want them to leave this house feeling, like, Damn i'm not prepared for.

This SO i, understand AND i think we both share the same sentiment where it's, like you don't you almost wanted to make sure you're over preparing them for every scenario they may potentially bump into so that way they know how to handle.

It BUT i can also see how, simultaneously it could be a bit overwhelming for a child to, say, WELL i haven't even encountered these things in life, yet but just the possibility THAT i may in itself is.

Overwhelming AND i think that's where you AND i are With jackson sometimes and why he may potentially feel, like oh my, god this is a lot to.

Process he we were talking one, time just just about.

Everything he was talking, about like how life seems like, scary like it's not.

FUN i was, like what you.

Mean he was just, Like, Okay, church you, know you don't do, right you, die go to.

Hell you, know being a black, man you walk around the street and if cops you so you might.

Die it's like it's like everything you see and hear about is all.

Negative it's all.

Negative AND i was, like, man we as a group of, people like are, humans have to do a better job of not scaring our kids with all the anxiety that we have from the life that we, lived because when we do, that in, turn it creates like a self fulfilling prophecy if something negative, happen because all you preach about is don't do, this don't do.

This and it's the same thing in sports WHEN i learned how to.

Ski they used to tell, me don't SAY i don't want to hit the, tree Say i'm gonna stay on the.

Path because if you Say i'm gonna stay on the, path you're focusing on the.

Path if you SAY i don't want to hit the, tree you're focusing on the.

Tree you're gonna run into the.

TREE i realized that with, parenting the more THINGS i Tell jackson to be concerned about and worried, about the more he only focuses on, that, Right and that's what was, creating like the animosity between, us and not even, animosity but it's like now my dad's talking, again, right and what negative is going to come out of my dad's mouth right?

Again or just being?

Tensioned yeah?

Right you, know?

Right are you thinking That i'm just saying this with?

Love but he receiving it as something that you don't know in that moment he may receive, it and then he may go up to his room or be in the shower and be, like oh my, Goodness i'm just thinking About, yes dad, said you, know most it over in his.

Head, yeah and it's just, like, damn that wasn't what you intended to, happen but that's how he's receiving it in his fourteen year old.

Mind.

Yeah, yeah it's just been crazy for me Because i'm an.

OVERTHINKER i overthink, everything AND i remember how stressful things were to me growing up in middle, school only to graduate and, realize like middle school is a.

Game it's not even real life.

Yet you, know middle.

School is like practice for high, school which is practice for, college which is practice for real.

Life.

Right BUT i.

Took it so serious because the same way my mom was the first black women In brooklyn to go To Marine park and go To Madison High.

School she was amongst that, class so she always taught me about you, know racial, discrimination but also taught me about.

Education but she always came from like that mother's standpoint where it was very like, heavy like make sure you do this or and then something bad and you, know advocate or something bad will.

Happen and that made me.

Crazy it sounds.

Like parenting with a bit of fair, parenting parenting out of.

Fair do any of you remember like that moment when you were just like that moment that she went from like adoring your, parents hanging on their every, word wanted to be with them all the time to then you kind of start to just want your own time you're in your room, more you kind of start to have a bit of a, ugh here they go.

Again do you remember like that point in time when it.

HAPPENED i don't remember.

MINE i don't remember when that.

HAPPENED i know it's probably, gradual BUT i do want to go back to the develops point real, Quick.

OKAY i want to applaud you for listening To.

Jackson for, him he's really mature for his, age, right the fact that he can come to you and, say your, DAD i just want to please, you but also for you for opening up and just being, Like i'm gonna take a step back from doing this Because i'm having an impact on my.

Son BECAUSE i think about my, DAUGHTER i don't want her to tell me dad the on any THING i want to do is please, you you know WHAT i, mean because it makes me feel Like i'm doing something.

Wrong that's, right.

Bro AND i think about my own.

FATHER i still have those thoughts LIKE i just want him to be happy with my, decisions with the things THAT i.

Do AND i remember myself at, fifteen sixteen years, OLD i felt LIKE i couldn't get anything.

Right but having that conversation with, HIM i probably wasn't mature enough to have the conversation with.

Him and it's probably because he's not as open as a as A caribbean.

Man he's just, like you, know do AS i say or.

Whatever AND i used TO i used to do a lot of LIKE i don't, say odd.

JOBS i used to do errand like run errand's with, him like pick up equipment and do all these things with him on.

Weekends AND i could just never do anything.

Right that's WHY i.

Felt and or he would just be like a like crazy control freak where he would just want to do it himself and not let me get it, go you know WHAT i, Mean so that When i'm doing.

STUFF i remember one TIME i was.

Sweeping we was at church and we was like it was at the, event and you, know everybody cleans, up like, community everybody cleans.

Up And i'm sweeping with a pushbroom for the very first, time And i'm just like taking the broom And i'm pulling the dirt.

Tunes that's.

What he snaps it away from.

Me and he snatched away from.

Me he's like it's a push, broom you push it, right you don't like for?

Me i'm, LIKE i don't know, that you know WHAT i?

Mean so everything you do like you just want to please your pops because he feels like something like everything you're doing is, wrong or at least you feel like everything he is.

Wrong So i'm just applauding you for or being open minded enough to understand that how you can affect your son in a negative way by you, know maybe being.

Overbearing and that's, it, MAN i don't remember WHEN i transfer into being want to be on my, own like it just.

Happened my parents are Always my parents are old, though like old.

School you don't want to hang around them no.

More i'm about to, Say i'm about to, SAY i don't think our parents hung out with us the way we hang out with.

Our, kids right, right, right you know What i'm, Saying, LIKE i DON'T.

I just say.

THAT i GUESS i asked that because With, Jackson and it could also just be like the repetition of things as a.

Mom it's like make your, bed brush your, teeth wash your, face like every morning.

Routine how is?

It let's start, here how is it?

Right it's not a very.

Worstiting how is it that every day we wake up to go to school and it's the same.

Routine and this is like all of, them, Right you wake, up you brush your, teeth you wash your, face you make your, bed you come down and have, breakfast you clean up the, kitchen you head, upstairs, motion mouth, wash, chapstick like all the.

Things AND i find myself every morning with the same, routine having to say the same things over and over.

Again so With jackson, particularly, NOW i could see like IF i say something to, him he'll be, like, okay, mom or like its tone changes or he gets Like And i'm, Like, jackson do you the body?

Language And i'm, like do you understand that my ass is tired of saying the same shit Every imagine if you tiedy hearing me say certain, Things imagine how TIRED i am of having to say these?

Things, Right so the other Morning i've been telling, Him, yo if you know you have practice before school and you have to change and put your uniform, on you gotta make sure you pack your bag the night, before don't wait till the morning.

Of then you want to snooze on the couch till the very last.

Minute your brothers are in the car wait for you when you scrambling to find shorts and shoes and contacts and all the.

Things so after saying that to him several, times there's some mornings WHERE i see him.

Scrambling so your mom was.

Here this was like a couple of mornings, Ago jackson scrambling trying to find, this trying to find.

That, jackson you know you could avoid this if you would have just packed your bag last, night right because the other day your father had to go take you, shoes your school shoes to school because you forgot to pack.

Them but had you packed, them your father wouldn't have to wake up to take you the.

Shoes and then he just starts moving.

Slower AND i think that that was his way of like not trying to say something to, me to be.

Disrespectful but it was like he started to move.

Slower so that's WHEN i had to because he's told in.

Me, Now that's WHEN i had to look at, him AND i kind of gave him a little bit of a you know That i'm gonna need you to move with sensive urgency or it's gonna be a.

Problem that's WHEN i hit him With brooklyn k and then he was like, yes, ma'am and that's when he started.

Moving but it was the it was the non verbal body, language you, know as if he was, like, oh here's she go.

Again she wants me to move.

Fast i'm gonna move.

Slow and your mother looked at me and she was, like oh, well she didn't even get.

Involved she was, like, oh, well.

When you have a, teenager this is how all teenagers look when they're.

Happy body.

Language that's.

What happened To jackman y'all one.

Thirty, yeah it was, like, Yo i'm like.

That his whole.

Team every song come out LIKE i WISH i had triples here.

Because they all got.

That because they all got, that you know What i'm.

Saying they all got that hair that be hanging in the.

Front the eyes just WHAT i see this ALL i see in the.

Gym it's just a little curl coming.

OUT i WISH i had you.

Here every teenager in that, school the white kids, too they got the.

Puff they got the puff That it's like they want the yes, no not the, pods because, pods pods kind of got a, curl but some of them don't have the.

Curl they got The.

Jacksie, says they do this, right the white boys because they want the puff to go like.

This he's, like you gotta feel they got a, fall so you gotta.

Go And i'm, like so then you do that and say you throw the hoodie over.

It SO i, said you do all of that with your hair and then throw a hoodie over.

It nobody to see your face like, Nothing and they're just like, this like, yeah that's the body.

Language and SO i can understand how in the morning if that's the body language you're getting before school because you, energy your high, Energy let's go guys and be ready to be.

Positive i'm, like let's start the day on a good.

Note like nobody wants to like send the kids to, school you, know yelling at them and or.

Whatever and Then jackson's just lagging and he's just Like i'm doing.

PRACTICE i, said that's Why i'll be telling you as to go to sleep at.

Night you just want to stay.

Up it's basketball season, now so forget.

It he's gonna want to watch tailor games all.

That SO i, said the extra twenty minutes that you want to get in the, morning take them twenty minutes and go to.

Sleep.

Early so last night when he was sitting with us here me and about trying to spend time, Together i'm, like why are you still?

Here?

WHY i, said maybe you should go to sleep so you're not in the morning fighting with me about being.

Up and he was like, facts right, right be like, yeah you're, right that's exactly what he.

Said he was, Like i'm gonna go get in the shower and go to.

BED i, say as you should remember him this.

Morning they're supposed to be out of here eight twenty, eight twenty.

Five his brothers is twenty eight twenty.

Eight his brother is all in the, truck his grandparents is waiting for.

Him he's walking through my head this and.

THAT i, Said, yo you got to be a lot more considerate with people's.

Time your brother's.

Waiting they gotta be in.

Time just LIKE k, said he didn't speed.

Up he slow walks over to his.

PHONE i feel, bad don't feel?

Bad move?

Fast what are you?

Doing like, like And i'm just, Like i'm, like, hey, man get your, son, bro that's in the.

MORNING i, DON'T i.

Don't i'm.

Yo he's, like, hey you got mourning routine You i'm, LIKE.

I can't do this bro cause it's like IF i had to do that every morning time and then and but part of it is.

Hormones.

Though, YEAH i definitely had to teach myself how to be a morning person again in my twenties because my dad ruined every morning for like four.

Years SO i at, twelve WHEN i started going through, PUBERTY i moved out of my mom's.

House she fussed, Too, DAMN i was out of.

Here SO i moved in with my, dad and every morning to wake me, up my dad would come in my room and clap as loud as he, could and then get really close to my face and just clap in my.

Ear sometimes he would just come in quietly and snatch the covers off shor.

So Then i'm.

Pissed i'm pissed.

Already then he would go back to.

Sleep AFTER i was, up he would go back to.

Sleep my dad sleeps like a, rock SO i would not be able to wake him.

Up it would take me forever to wake.

Up by the TIME i get him.

Up Now i'm.

Late we're gonna be.

Late.

Now he's doing one hundred miles an hour on the, freeway weaving in and out of, traffic trying to get me in.

School but on top of, that he has to eat, something and he'll just grab.

Whatever my dad doesn't really.

Cook he'll get on a grill but he don't, cook and he'll just grab, whatever, grapes, oreos whatever there, is and it doesn't matter what it.

Is he's smacking so fucking loud every, morning and he.

Is he's having a great.

Morning he went back to, sleep he's, refreshed he's feeling.

Good he's got his fucking grapes that he's chewing like his beef.

Jerky he's so happy with.

Itself i'm about to be.

LATE i Know i'm going to get a, detention and he doesn't give a.

Fuck he LIKE.

I used to be in this in the passenger, Seat LIKE i should just grab the wheel and brust into a wall because this is the most miserable ship in the.

World and my sophomore, YEAR i think it WAS i got a detention every single day from my first bell teacher BECAUSE i was late every day AND i would be, like it's not my, faults my dad's, fault and my teacher was, like it is your.

Fault does your dad have to be in?

School?

No and they forced me TO i had to start taking the bus to.

SCHOOL i was so.

Mad this triple.

Origins that's an insane way to wake.

Up that is, THOUGH i would lose my.

Mind.

Bro that Is.

And my, dad you, know he's just he's like a really chill, person but he does ship to irritate.

People that's like his favorite thing to, do and he doesn't react to.

IT i would be so mad in the mornings in his, house right, right, yeah get, on and he just would be calm about.

It.

Yeah it was the most irritating.

Ship AND i think that that's probably the peak of like my hormonal.

Attitude and THEN i think he probably my hormones up BECAUSE i still have an attitude.

Problem you know What i'm, saying, Mamatic, yes, irritation it just takes me right.

BACK i can't hear clapping every time somebody irritates.

ME i hear.

Clapping that's.

Crazy how does your mother used to wake?

Up my mother sang a.

Song my mom she used to just, like come, in turn the light.

On that's my, Thing, like don't turn the light on right.

Away it was the turning of the light.

On so because of that trauma with the, Boys i'll turn on like the light farthest away from, them like by the, bathroom and Then i'll, slowly like you, know and not give them.

Kisses AND i tried to make it a gradual wake, up Like i'm not gonna wake you up at seven thirty if you have to be up at seven.

THIRTY i started like seven, fifteen seven, twenty like hey, guys and kind of coax them out of.

Bed, YEAH i.

DO i just really feel like that sets the tone for their, day LIKE i don't do it does in the morning and set them to school with nothing.

HEAVY i know how it feels WHEN i have to be woken up AND i don't want to go.

Somewhere SO i think part of it now with our, generation or at least With.

DEVALIN i don't want to say our, generation But deval AND i are just aware of the things that we did not like when we were, children or the things that have caused us some sort of, trauma whether it's like something lightweight or, not and we just, decided you know, what we're gonna try this approach with the kids.

Instead and you, know BECAUSE.

I know what it was like in the.

Morning my mother was like fussing and trying to us how the, door and then she's just, like this is, why and that's.

Why and then her and my father had their own thing going, on and then it, said you take that weight to school and the whole day is like thrown.

Off so that's WHY i purposely wake up with them in the morning and try to do.

That But jackson be pushing my buttons in the morning, sometimes you, know as he's getting, older you, Know dakota's biggest thing Is i'm So.

I'm so.

Tired he'd be on the cast up Between, Jackson.

Coda coda And jackson are my hardest in the.

Morning the, Morning, Yeah, Cayron cass they, Good they're.

GOOD i used to feel like it was.

Well they do.

Say science says that some people are genetically just not mourning.

People science just talking about.

Message.

Yeah.

Facts i'm not a morning.

Person i'm not.

Either i'm not with.

IT i, MEAN i prefer not to be up, early you know What i'm.

Saying but IF i have to be, Now i'm a lot.

BETTER i used to have an attitude with anybody in the.

Morning don't fucking say nothing to me and don't wake me.

Up, absolutely if you wake me.

Up anybody who wakes you up is just you Always you're.

Done you, See i'm not that bad in the.

MORNING i just don't.

Like IF i had a, Choice i'll get up.

Later but IF i got to get, UP i guess it's from football in all them years of having me, UP i just wake.

UP i know the meme that has the fox that looked for all dishovel and he's just Sitting, yep that's, Okay yes me here be looking like.

That i'm just send you a text triple early in the.

Morning with.

It it's just a bit pack of.

Oreos five.

Oreos you, said some claps in the.

Morning just get a voice on this.

Clap so what changes have you noticed In jackson now that he's like going through this hormonal.

Change first thing is fatigued AND i noticed this and the i acs as, pediatrician she was just she, said she was, like, listen he's at that age he's going to be sleeping all the.

Time and when he's sleeping all the, time don't do what most parents, do which you said all you do is sleep all.

Day get up and do.

Something because his body's growing and if he's an, athlete he needs to.

Sleep that's the first.

THING i also noticed that because he's, tired it makes him.

Irritable and we always take it as, like what's so important in your life that you're IRRITABLE i work as parents and we get defensive about.

That but talking to his pediatrician and listening to what she's, saying it's, like.

You know, WHAT i have to be more aware of what he's going through, physiologically SO i don't jump on every you, know every little thing because that could be annoying as a kid your parents up on.

Anything but the biggest thing she said was he's going to be, tired and when he's sleeping in the middle of the, DAY i don't just wake him, up like wake up and do something if he, sleep and let him.

Sleep so and ever since we've been doing, that his attitude has been way.

Better, yeah we didn't actually encourage him to, sleep because that's one thing With jackson WHY i give him.

Latitude like this, episode of, course is just fun to talk, about you, know it's jokes most of, it But jackson really is like a really good.

Kid good, kid like his average is like in ninety, Six like he's on top of his.

Things SO i don't really harp on on things too much with.

Him the sleep thing is something that we do, encourage, though because of.

That one thing that kind of broke my heart a little.

Bit this, year which was like the, first was, well, a he didn't want to dress up For.

Halloween you, KNOW i, mean we're not Big halloween, folks but you, know it's fun to take the kids around the.

Neighborhood and this is the first year he didn't do it with his brothers.

Either like, before he used to try to split time and be, like, oh if, Anything i'll like go with my friends for a little bit and THEN i come back with the.

Brothers but he was like with his friends for the whole, evening AND i was, like And i'm just, like so no.

Costume he's, like, well my friends doing, this like they had their own old thing that they, did And i'm, like.

Okay so that was kind of sad Because i'm just like.

THIS i know slowly he's going to start wanting to like spend more time with his friends and outside the, house And i'm just not prepared for.

That it's a couple months before he gets his.

PERMIT i can't believe we're Here, yeah.

He comes to me to.

Box he wants to, box like put the head gear, on go downstairs and actually get physical.

Contact like he's no longer just backing up Because dad is so big and.

OVERPOWERING i throw him a jab and he'll take it, in And i'm like, Wow like he's actually becoming a young.

Man i'm watching him grow, up become more.

Muscular i'm also liking like time solo time with.

Him LIKE i had to take him late to school one morning because he had an eye doctor appointment and he's, Like, mom can we grab Like chack Fil a for?

BREAKFAST i was, like you know, what, yeah we'll make it a.

Morning so we got, up got, dressed he AND i went and had breakfast, together and then just having conversation with, Him like it's interesting amidst all of the changes he's going, through just to even learn more about him and his personality because he's very, aware you, know he's very mature for his, age the things that he, realizes the way he looks at.

Life i'm just kind of, like, wow it's interesting to like learn different versions of your children as they.

Grow so that's been kind of.

Interesting it's also interesting to teach them about themselves because he's at the point in his life now where his body's.

Changing, Right like when before testostermone comes in in, hormones when you go play basketball for three, hours nobody can.

Tell now you go play basketball for ten.

Minutes you coming.

Home So i'm, like, yo what, hey, hey you need to take your ass in the.

Shower like what are you?

Doing you know What i'm, saying, Like, bro do not come talk to me about what?

Happened, goes didn't take that?

Shower go?

Straight, also we like he's a he's a young man, now, Right so before When i'm teaching him everything cold, tub, this, this this That i'm teaching, him and he's just getting naked right he Gets i'm, like, man he got.

Hair i'm, Like, bro you at a point now where you're not a.

Kid you know What i'm, Saying, like don't walk in my bathroom with your balls.

Out you know What i'm, Saying, like.

He don't got a bathtub in his.

Room so he got his towel over his shoulder walking in my bathroom with these hairy.

Nuts, Man i'm, like you don't LIKE i got.

Pasts for a, MINUTE i was, like, hey all, Right it's was only one hair in this.

BATHROOM i was, like you gotta you, know you got to put on some spandings when you come down.

Here your mom is walking.

Around it's just him understanding also like your your mom also has different body parts and she deserves.

Privacy you're not a little boy no.

More you are a young.

Man respect your mom's, space respect my.

Space and he's walking.

Around you can't just walk around with no shirt, on you.

Know Like i'm trying to teach him things to be respectful in the, place in places of other.

People when when you have a, kid you don't have to worry about.

That but now he's a young.

Man so it's just watching him go through all of those.

Things watching him navigate around young.

Women i've also noticed not to give too much of his stuff.

Away but he he has a way of, knowing like there's young ladies, watching AND i have to be a certain.

Way AND i like.

That you know What i'm saying that he's not the type of young.

Man it's like ladies is, young ladies is.

Watching let me be like the hard he man, roar got to be the most boisterous Loud, no he's just like at.

The end of his basketball.

GAMES i notice is the meaning when there are young ladies there as opposed to when it's just us young ladies hanging.

Around.

Baby after a couple of football, games, hey Miss ellis stops.

Stop i'm, like little.

Girls it was like a little, group like trio of, them and they were just, like, oh That's Jasus jackson's Names.

Ellis i'm, like, hey, girls what's.

Up and it was just, like you, Know jackson's getting.

Ready he comes, over he, says hiding me or.

WHATEVER i see them all snickling on the side over, there snickering and.

Whatnot and then we ended up over by.

Concessions and Then i'm, like, oh, look it's on the concession.

Line and then three that one was on the concession line.

TOO i was, like oh, Man jack is starting to.

Happen Jack jackson had this was about.

Track it's around.

Track jack's had no.

Clue i'm, like, Yo, jack you see?

What he, like huh.

You.

Ain't he's, like see What i'm standing right over.

There i'm, like forget.

It don't even look back no, more because now you're making it.

Hot, Bro, like now you're making.

Hot that was.

Summertime football.

Season.

Yeah now though he come, Outside i'm, like what is sure?

That WHEN i was talking to him after the, game AND i just looked at him and said something, else he snapped out of.

It he's all, Right see what happened was you made the left on the wrong, Basket jackson but you didn't that's the game of the.

Game they called to play for.

Inbound he went immediately did a.

Reverse everybody's like, ooh and then the team got the rebound put it back back.

Up everybody, said, wait hold, up who's the wrong?

Who but it Was.

Jacksonville but he.

Didn't he didn't, realize but he.

Was the move was so.

Nice everybody's, like it's all, right you tried.

Something it was the funny Thing i've seen in my life through because then he got fouled and had the two free throws on the other end of the, basket which is crazy.

Because oh he had missed.

Up they were up about eighteen points midway through the first so he didn't play the whole second.

Quarter then we come in and they switched, baskets so this is getting in the third.

Quarter he is.

Not he didn't play much of the third.

Quarter they sitting there so now this is the first time middle third quarter he's.

In him and his.

Friends you, know they they're the older.

Guys they not paying.

Attention jackson get in the.

Game he jump in, there they call the.

Enblounds he up and under misses the, layup they get the, rep he almost gets the.

Rebound they fould.

Him so now he got a, shoot they go take.

Him and that's what everybody the stands was, Like OH.

E J.

R smith definitely to move.

With he's, like, yeah see what?

Happened he was playing cool.

Alone, YEAH i like it.

Though SOMETHING i remember is the last TIME i ever kissed my dad on the.

LIPS i THINK i was.

Thirteen he dropped me off at school on his, motorcycle gave him a, kiss and THEN i was, LIKE i can't do that.

Anymore you know how cool that got to be to get off your dad's motorcycles at, school, bro and the didn't kiss him on the.

Lips, now, yeah at, thirteen that's kind of, yeah because thirteen is what middle?

School, yeah middle school and it's late and you've.

Grown, yeah that was.

Late but have y'all had any moments like that With jackson where it's like this baby.

Stuff we can't do, anymore.

Me kissing him on his.

Forehead, remember, Oh matt was, There he's, yo.

Chill it was like the minute he got to middle, school elementary, school he was going to.

Creek my, bad we'll take that.

Out elementary, school he was going to.

School kissed him on the foy he, pops come, out run jump in my.

Arms middle.

SCHOOL i went to hug.

Him.

SOON i went to hug him and gave me THE i was just like about the kisses.

MAN i was, LIKE i was, like what's what's?

That he was just like kisses.

MAN i was, like you do want to kiss you in front of your?

Friends he's, LIKE i don't want you to kiss.

ME i was like no.

More he was just like, Yeah like he was like sad telling.

Me but he was just like.

Yeah BUT i was like, no, no, no it's your space if you don't want the.

Kisses here's the crazy.

Part football.

Season i'm coaching on my football, season having a good.

Season at the end of the last game of football, season we won like three games in a.

ROW i go to give him a.

Pound he gives me a hug and he's, like you can kiss me.

Now AND i was, like, dang, bro like you you really be knowing your dad need.

THIS i kissed him in this big old curly here and THEN i was just like that, said, MAN i ain't kissing you no.

More he gives me a little bit more.

Latitude we still like on the couch And i'm just, like you, know we can.

Cuddle it's awkward, cuddling cuddling.

Long and his limbs are long and.

Whatnot but we'll be on the couch together AND i still get my.

SNUGGLES i think he knows like mom needs.

It so he's, like all, Right i'll let you, ride.

BRO i GET i kiss my other kids, though tyro cool with it cast the.

Colder the funny thing is THE colda is the one that he Don't he don't like.

IT i pick him, up he mad.

LITTLE i pick him up on get daddy kisses and he be, Like.

I'm, like why you don't want to get?

Me, OH i just thought about.

It his, brothers he probably just watches.

Them he watches.

Them but also, like you know how boys.

Are you know What i'm, saying don't be, soft don't be, soft be a, boy don't be a.

Boy and you know What i'm saying With.

Carl, yeah he's definitely With.

Carol that's WHY i gotta watch.

Him he's the sweet.

Baby.

Though he'd be like he'll randomly come over and like give me a hug and be, like you're the best mommy, ever and then ask you for What, NO i, know, right we followed up with, that But i'm, like you're the best cod of ever and he was.

Smiling but that's what's.

Up he don't do that to, me that little mother.

You have the best.

MOMMY i need to catch it on camera one, day like on like record, it because then the little voices they go.

And then, yeah you, know LIKE i.

Know that's one Thing kazz Watching kaz grow.

Up when we first started coming down, here his little voice he sounded Like Mickey.

Mouse, yeah and then now you don't sound like.

That i'd be, like, yeah Like, triple why are you here?

Again?

Right?

Trible you live down?

Here where you?

Going where you?

Going all the questions he has all the.

Questions the funny thing With kaz is that he doesn't say like, really if you tell, someone he, says, actually.

Like who just like think about.

It he, says, actually there's too many.

Syllables we're From, brooklyn say, really or be like, word but you're not gonna give me a word, cayro or he'd be like, no, actually.

BUT i think we should actually take a break actually Really, Bills, yeah, exactly and then we're gonna come back with our listening letter episode of the, Day so stay.

Tuned we'll be right, back.

Y'all all, right and we're.

Back this is a pretty long listener, letter so we'll give you this, up.

Babe i'll, start and THEN i guess they gave us lots of.

Context we asked for, context she said he or she, said here you.

Go let's see who it.

Is all, Right, Hey Kadina.

DAVAO i hope you both are doing.

WONDERFUL i absolutely Love ellis Ever after and been rocking with y'all since the apartment.

DAYS i also want to shot out the rest of the, Team Triple josh And.

MATT i love hearing everyone's thoughts and.

Perspectives i'm writing BECAUSE i really need your.

Advice over the past, YEAR i started to feel Like i'm losing, myself and even THOUGH i take accountability for my, PART i realized a lot of it came from trying too hard to love in a way that wasn't being.

Returned i've been married for seven, years and my husband AND i have known each other for.

Eleven from early in our, relationship he mentioned that he enjoyed receiving oral, pleasure but made it clear that he would never give it at the.

TIME i had never given or received oral, before BUT i wanted to meet his, needs SO i learned how and started doing it for, him even though he SAID i didn't have.

To in those early, stages there were a lot of restrictions that made me feel.

Ashamed after giving him, ORAL i wasn't allowed to kiss him UNTIL i brushed my.

Teeth if we started sex with me giving him, ORAL i wouldn't kiss him for the rest of the intimacy.

Because, yo, dick what are we?

Doing i'm?

Sorry my, bad, Right.

That's probably why he's, like, no, THANKS i.

Yeah but not but he not sucking his Own but, no she's going to tell you why what he.

Said just listen all.

Right, now stay tuned.

HERE i began timing it towards the end SO i could kiss him and feel.

Close about three years, in he started allowing me to kiss him, afterward but only if he didn't finish in my.

Mouth even, then if we'd already had intercourse AND i gave him oral, AFTER i still couldn't kiss him because he said my mouth now had quote unquote my juices in.

It those rules made me feel scorned and, ashamed BUT i kept pushing those feelings aside to hold on to.

Him.

Continue, baby it's hard to read about giving oral to on these.

Weeds i'll finish these.

Weeds, YEAH i can't read.

THIS i will.

Continue i'll never forget one.

BIRTHDAY i decorated the, room set everything up to make it.

Special we were having passionate, sex and in the middle of, it after giving him, oral he looked at me and, said can you go brush your teeth SO i can kiss.

You in that, moment my whole body.

SANK i felt so, embarrassed like all the energy and love THAT i put into that moment just.

Disappeared the confusing part is that he can also be very attentive in.

Bed he makes SURE i finished, first and even with, that there's always, restrictions and those limits have made intimacy feel conditional instead of.

Connected as our relationship, GREW i eventually asked if he would consider, reciprocating and that's when things started to.

Shift he became upset and said THAT i was being disrespectful and quote unquote styling.

Him he told, me that is what does that?

Mean?

JA i was about to say he got to be when this story.

STARTED i was, like, yeah, yeah styling.

Him she's popping.

Style she's, like you, know making him look.

Away he told, me if that's WHAT i, WANTED i should find someone.

Else over the, years every time the topic came, up it turned into a big.

ARGUMENT i explained That i'm not trying to force.

HIM i just want our intimacy to feel mutual and.

CONNECTED i even began enjoying giving him oral for my own, pleasure but it's still hurts to know that my desires are never considered after.

Marriage WHEN i brought it up, again he SAID i was wrong to think being his wife would change his.

Mind i've also tried to introduce small things like vibrators or bullets to spice things, up but he's always been against.

It, meanwhile one of his fantasies was a, threesome and BECAUSE i wanted to make sure that his needs were, MET i, agreed even THOUGH i knew he would never have done that for me if the roles were.

Reversed my love language is physical.

Touch All i've ever wanted is to feel, seen, desired and touched without having to, ask just that natural.

Affection but it only happens WHEN i mention, it and then it fades UNTIL i bring it.

Up it's built a lot of resentment in.

Me, recently he said again that he would never perform oral because it would make him feel quote less of a, man end, quote and that he would that if he ever did, it he couldn't live with himself or feel like a.

PROVIDER i told him that, hurt because if that's how he, feels does that mean That i'm less of a woman for doing it for?

Him he?

Answered his answer didn't.

Change you want me to.

Finish it's fine, already.

Hear his answer didn't.

Change WHEN i told him MAYBE i should stop giving oral, altogether he, said IF i stop doing, IT i should have, sex stop having sex.

Entirely it broke me Because i've realized how Much i'm putting my own needs aside for SOMEONE i love.

Deeply outside of, that he's a great dad to our two, sons And i'll always give him.

That so here's my.

Question AM i being unfair for expecting him to reconsider after all these, years to meet me halfway?

Sexually or SHOULD i just accept that he told me from the beginning this was what he would never.

Do thank you both for always being, real, vulnerable and open about marriage and intimacy or conversations give so many of us courage to look deeper into our own relationships and ourselves with.

LOVE a wife who feels lost all right.

For.

That at, FIRST i felt like he was being selfish at, first but after listening to what she, SAID i feel like he created a boundary for himself and said this is WHAT i do and WHAT i don't.

Do you can either agree with me or.

Not you don't even have to do it to.

ME i think is wrong for people to assume That, Okay i'll say it doesn't, matter but then hopefully it'll change over, time and then when it don't, change blame the person for not.

CHANGING i think that she's wrong for.

That you know What i'm.

Saying she had hopes of things would.

Change you, KNOW i would.

Want for her husband to, say you know, what let's meet.

Halfway but if it's something that he's convicted about and has told you that this is his.

Boundary we then can't shame him for setting a boundary because we as people talk about the boundaries that we set for.

Ourselves and if that's his, boundary regardless of how silly you think it, is it's his.

Right SO i think that are you wrong now for expecting him to change after two kids in?

Marriage?

Yeah he told you who he.

Is, yeah and he said this is WHAT i do and don't.

Do you could have early on said well you know WHAT i really want that so this ain't working between, us but she.

Didn't so unfortunately you have to make a decision, now are you willing to continue to be unfulfilled in your?

Life which sucks for, you you know What i'm.

Saying but that was a decision you made early or do you, say you know, What i'm going to move on and find someone.

Else but only she can make that.

Decision, YEAH i mean it seems like his foot is dug, in like his heels are dug all the way, in and he's not shifting on this to the point where he, said you might as well go find somebody else to do it kind of, thing like you, Know and that's that's kind of.

Unfortunate, see at FIRST.

I was on her sign until she.

Said he also said THAT i didn't have to do it to, Him so it's not like he was, saying you got to do it to, me But i'm not doing.

It he was saying, like, nah like you don't got to do, it And i'm not doing.

It but felt like should have gave that mouth.

Up yeah you did.

That she did.

That she's not letting him finish in her mouth and he don't want to lick.

Her, NO i feel like he said he don't want to kiss her because her juices.

Are in her.

Mouth, no his, juices his.

Juices, no if they after they have, Intercourse, No, NO i think it was it's his, juices his.

Juices after she After, jamaican it's his.

Juices it's not it's both of.

Them.

Yeah, yeah but she didn't say she.

Didn't she SAID i still couldn't kiss him because he said my mouth now had and then it was unquote my juices, Juice so he's talking about his.

Hisself, well we don't.

Know we don't know if the quote means for her my juices because she's telling them.

Stories because she, said, yeah she said they were having.

Sex then she went down on, him then she went up there to kiss, him and then he said no because it has your.

Juices but that's his.

Conviction if he don't want to have her juices on his, MOUTH i don't want no or juices in his.

Mouth and if that's his, conviction that that's his, line that's his, line that's his.

Line like you, KNOW i agree with.

You you shouldn't have gave the mouth up hoping that he was going to get his mouth.

Up and that's that's where she is.

Now and that level of intimacy that she feels like always has an abrupt like stop like in the moment and then somebody like you go brush your, teeth that would like throw everything.

On but here's my thing, Though right if you're having this interaction with this person and you're, realizing LIKE i don't like, this why do you get married and have two kids with this?

Person why do you continue to do those?

Things and then later on, say, WELL i, did like you can't do that to.

You know WHAT i?

Mean people always think thing's gonna change and doesn't, happen and.

Some people do, change some people do some people do.

Change but if they don't use expected.

To her, Right and most people that do change change for.

Themselves they don't change for, you because if they're changing for, you they're going to definitely let you know that they change for.

You so whoever's change and typically probably change for.

Themselves you.

KNOW i hope that helps, you.

Mama you know this is a tough situation for you to be, in BUT i think there's always conversations to be.

Had but also you can use descermon and make a decision for your long term.

Happiness no one has to be.

Stuck don't feel, stuck but understand that there are consequences with all those, decisions you, know if you decide.

Not to stay.

Right all, right thank you so much for writing.

In if you want to be featured as a listener letter on one of our, episodes please email.

Us we'd love to hear from.

You the elisadvice at gmail dot.

Com that's t H E E l L I S a d V i C e at gmail dot.

Com all, right time to give our moments of?

Truth would you Like devous to go?

First, josh so he doesn't take.

YOURS i ain't got what we're.

Talking, well this was like a devout therapy.

Session, YEAH i was stressed a.

BIT i was.

STRESSED i ain't gonna lie you.

And you And jacks as he's, Growing so do you have one to?

Kick?

YEAH i do understand what your kids are going.

Through don't write off what your kids are going through us always just.

Kids we do that as, Parents, right he don't got no real how important or how hard can school?

Be you?

Know don't we say that his parents are?

Time oh you just got chores in?

School?

Now kids have a lot of things that they're dealing, with including, hormones them smells that you, smell that, attitude the, fatigue the sleepiness that we call.

Laziness don't just throw that on your.

Kids it's something bad and make them feel shameful what they're going.

Through you know What i'm.

SAYING i think it's time for us as parents to understand that from those ages of pre adolescence through puberty up unto them early young adult, years they deserve grace just as much as, we as grown adults.

DESERVE i was gonna, say give your children grace BECAUSE i think as, parents you know how it felt to be that, age and you understand the little things that used, to you, know make you tick and the things that might have pisched you.

Off and a part of, IT i think is just understanding who you are as you.

Grow so give them a little.

Grace you know your children.

Best for, example With, jackson we know that deep down when the chips, fall he's just an amazing kid all, around and we just want to help him navigate as he, grows the same way my husband's helping me.

Navigate.

Perrymanaphuts you know What i'm, Saying we all navigating everything in this house BECAUSE i just don't want to ever have any of, that any of my.

Boys having four of, them just feel, like, DAMN I i don't want to answer because my mom's.

Calling she's gonna start chatting.

Again Or i'm not even gonna go home today because my mother's gonna be you, know she's gonna be yelling about this or screaming about.

THAT i just want my boys to always feel, like you know, WHAT i want to call my.

MOM i want to come.

Home that's that's WHAT i ultimately.

Want so that's my.

Mom and truth, Y'all jackson made case in the morning for your.

Mom tumpky and.

Chest may yes make, case and pack your bag the.

Night before and pack your.

Patient i'm.

STEALING i don't really have a moment of.

Truth and validity is.

Real don't be an Invalid and it's important for us as parents to not impose our wills on our children so much that they feel like they need to impress, us all, Right and also always remember that there's somebody right next to you that might feel like they're on an.

Island so be courteous and kin.

Fact that's a good.

One, yeah find gentle ways to wake your kids.

Up that's a good.

One you, know that's.

True that's a rough morning every morning Because i'm envisioning, it LIKE i don't know Why i'm, envisioning like your pop's, mad big and musculars.

Coming there like, clap, clap, clap snatch water sleep now.

Triples i'm, LIKE i gotta get ready to, school, Dad.

Dad then he just up grabbed some, orioles some, grapes and he's, like, yeah every morning before school For.

Trible oh my, goodness we love You.

Trible, yeah all, right y'all be sure to find us On patreon if you have not joined the gang, Yet we're over here with Exclusive Ellis ever after content as well as the after show And ellis family, content which is probably the best.

Stuff you get to see what's going on in this.

House you get to see those moments in real.

Time sometimes you know What i'm, Saying it depends on What mac.

Captures and then please find us on social media and follow us On instagram and TikTok ellis Ever afters where you can find.

Us I'm, KADEEN i am and i Am.

Devlle i'm going to Score, ellis And I'm Joshua Underscore, Duwayne i'm At tres The cool TRI i b B.

Z that's cool on.

Everything and if you're listening On apple, podcasts be sure to rate with you and.

Subscribe God ellis Ever after is an iHeartMedia.

Podcast it's hosted By kadeen And Deval.

Ellis it's produced By Triple, Video production By Joshua dwyane And Matthew, ellis video editing By Lashan, Brow

The IFS, if The cas