From the dark corners of the web, an emerging mindset I am a loser if also we know wouldn't pay me either.

A hidden world of resentment, cynicism, anger against women at a deadly tipping point.

In Cells will be added to the Terrorism Guide.

Pelissea.

A driver intentionally drove into a crowd, killing ten people.

Tomorrow is the day of retribution, the day in which I will have my revenge.

Is very angry, expressing a lot of hatred towards women and towards men who get all the women.

I just told my husband I know she's dead.

This is in Cells, a production of Kat's Studios and iHeartRadio, Season one, Episode two, Blackpilled.

I'm Courtney Armstrong, a producer at KATI Studios, with Stephanie Leidecker, Gabriel Castillo, Connor Powell, and Carolyn Miller.

Even as we write this script, the idea of online radicalization of all forms has been top of news.

What we are seeing is people that are being radicalized typically are high and what's called the dark triad, which is macavelianism, narcissism, and psychopathy, leading us to believe that this ideology had infected him and had taken over.

A lot of us are not immune to the danger of the kind of radicalization that takes place.

This goes all the way up to the Senate Judiciary Committee hearing on September sixteenth.

Here's Director of the FBI Cash Betel, speaking with Senator Lindsay Graham.

The data shows that social media is wildly out of control.

This guy's FBI director.

He says that social media is wildly out of control.

Online radicalization of all sorts is becoming more prevalent, specifically as it relates to an uptick in in cell ideology.

Last episode, we covered the basics of what a self identifying in cell is, an involuntarily celibate man who often feels hopeless with his position in life and who can sometimes turn violent.

Here's boys In Hodson, Communications and marketing director for the Mankind Project.

He explains research going on in this area.

There is really beautiful research out there from Equamundo than another organization called Diverting Hate.

That have all been kind of looking at these things, and what they see about men who get involved in the in cell community is that they are really attached to adhering to really strict gender roles around what it means to be a man, and the more they adhere to that kind of dominance based, hierarchical, really unhealthy beliefs about women, really unhealthy beliefs about people of color, a lot of that stuff.

And the more that they get attached to these rigid, unhealthy the ideas about what it means to be a man, the easier it is for them to get drawn into hating other people, to get drawn into self harm and harm of others.

We talk about it as either dominance based masculinity or the man box culture.

We ask Boyson to explain man box culture.

The idea of the man box is that most boys and men that you speak to out there in the world, they know what they're supposed to do.

They know what fits in the man box.

Don't be gay, make a lot of money, keep your emotions to yourself, man up, don't hurt, don't share.

All of these kinds of things that you know.

Little boys start embodying these things at four or five years old.

They already know what's inside the box.

We spoke to Boyson about how these messages get internalized and what that does to the mindset of in cells.

So the messages that many of us heard when we were younger, and this is you know, I'm in my fifties and I still remember these messages, right.

Don't get vulnerable with other people, don't show your weakness, don't share your emotions, toughen up.

A lot of these messages get internalized, and from those internalized messages, it is absolutely recipe for isolation.

It is absolutely a recipe to stay home, not go out, only have online community, and restrict your kind of sharing about what's real and true and vulnerable about who you are.

To better understand the different ideologies and cells fall into, we first need to understand the terminology that's used, starting with red pill and black pill.

So there's the red pill world where you've woken up in quotation marks to the fact that you know feminism has gone too far and men are really the ones who are being victimized these days, and that is backed up in the in cell world by this idea of black pill and the blackpill science that they bring into this is really flawed versions of evolutionary science or eugenics that places human beings in very distinct hierarchies.

So this idea of six' six' six six, feet tall six figure incomes six.

Inches plus that's the, ideal, man right and then every other gradation of society is kind of ranked based.

On that so a lot of the in cell ideology is based on really bad science that they call, black pill that they believe is these are the women, Who succeed these are the men.

Who succeed i'm, Not that i'll never.

Be that i'm doomed.

For a deeper dive into black, pill ideology as well as the blue and red pill ideologies that go along.

With it we spoke To Doctor david lay who describes the importance of in cels having their.

Own Language doctor lay is a, clinical psychologist, sex therapist and author of.

Multiple books he also does training for therapists around.

The, world.

So, you, know first it's important to recognize that having, idiosyncratic terminology having a certain language and terminology that is native and unique to a community is one of the ways of building identity because people that are outside the community don't know what these, terms mean and having the secret language keeps other people out and it builds this idea of secret knowledge.

And belongingness by not only knowing, the terms but using the whole pill kind, of concept you know the red pill and.

Blue pill we remember That, from matrix and, you know the red pill is when you reject society being the way you've been told it's going, to be and you decide to see underneath.

The current.

The people who do not see underneath the curtain are considered.

Blue pilled this is someone who is not part of the in cell community and is considered ignorant of what in cells believe to be the quote truth in the in.

Cell worldview those who are blue pilled believe what we'd call mainstream ideas.

About relationships that personality and emotional connection are important in attracting, a partner that sex and intimacy are not commodities controlled solely, by women and that gender roles in society are not unfairly skewed.

Against Men doctor lay continues describing the, bleakest designation the.

Black pill, the, blackpill though is somewhat unique to the, insel community and it is a bleak cynical view that in seldom being an insul is a permanent state that cannot be overcome or altered by.

An insul it's really an embracing, of hopelessness which is a unique component again of the in.

Cel community that's one of the things that there's a lot of, echoes around which is you can't, get out you can't, change this and if you, try to.

You'll fail and if you, try to you're not a.

Real insul you're only a real insul if you accept that this is.

Your existence.

The concept of echo chambers came up often while producing.

This podcast most, of us to, be honest.

Were unfamiliar we Asked doctor lay to explain what an echo chamber is in this context and what the.

Implications are.

The echo chamber component of any online extreme ideology group is intended to enforce rules upon what is said and how people behave in, this community and it also sets up these men that if they ever dare to question or go against the components of the, echo chamber they are viewed, as unfaithful.

As disloyal all of that is intended to shame and mandate loyalty to the echo.

Chamber dialogue the reason it's an echo chamber is that it is intended to program that ideology into.

People's thinking.

Let's stop here for, a break we'll be back in.

A moment while learning about the blue pill and black, pill Designations Doctor david lay also spoke to us about what it means.

To ascend.

So ascend is a term that the in cells us to describe when an in cell overcomes their in cell nature and when the, in cell frankly is successful at getting a date or getting, a girlfriend getting a.

Sex partner and they described that this is when he ascends past or out of his in.

Cel identity but, even though and there have been a couple of, you know relatively well known in cell leaders who then quote unquote ascended and did successfully get a date or.

A girlfriend and what was fascinating in those cases was that at first these guys were somewhat celebrated by their, inceel peers and then they.

Were attacked then they were horrifically attacked and shamed and just cut to ribbons in these online communities by their inceell peers for, betraying them for betraying the in.

Cell identity and so even though they have this term that you, can ascend the in cells encourage each other against it because it would go Against that blackpiel kind of idea that.

It's hopeless.

Then this language in cells used to describe others the quote normies or normal people often normies refer to those with, healthy relationships specifically romantic and.

Sexual ones this brings us To the chads and the staces for a, Visual picture Barbie.

And Kendall.

The Chad and Stacy and becky are these terms that they that the in cels use to describe those men and women who are more qualitatively attractive.

AND Desirable a chad is, you know that that man who is, you know perceived as being tall and successful and, you know traditionally handsome and desired, by women with social characteristics to qualities like wealth that will make women attracted to him and choose him over.

The Insul the stacy is a more, attractive female But the stacy is is oftentimes perceived as also being kind of dumb.

And shallow becky is a less, you know kind of classically, attractive woman but more more the kind of bookish sort, of female but also still again more attractive than the.

End cell and again there's there's a tremendous amount of misogyny in the in, cell community and most of, their anger most of their hatred is actually reserved for the women and Not.

That chad they don't talk about Killing, the chad but they do talk about the deceptiveness and the dishonesty, of Women both Becky's and stacy's that they would choose those chads over other men such as.

The insuls.

Another thing to look at is just where in.

Cells congregate part of the reasons so little is widely known about the subculture is that they self select into different online spaces to speak openly.

Among themselves Here's Producer, connor powell who has spent time engaging on in cell forums for.

This podcast.

There is this sort of feeling that their real life for them is behind the key board on a social, media forum Whether it's discord or the insell, community forums Or even reddit to, some Extent although reddit doesn't have as many in cells on it as it used to because they've banned a lot of the language and the behavior that you know it used.

To attract.

Reddit is mainly used for, community discussions with thousands of specialized forums.

Called subreddits any of us might Go to reddit to discuss literally anything from the best medical shows to WATCH on tv to how to clean.

Your windows, as mentioned many in cell conversations have been Banned.

From reddit discord is another platform we've been hearing a lot, about lately.

We're also going to be investigating anyone and everyone involved In that.

Discord chat there's an increase in violent online groups using the App.

CALLED discord i Spoke with Chase.

About discord chase is in his, early twenties outgoing with a healthy, social life.

A girlfriend.

I use discord for the first time probably my freshman sophomore year of.

High school it was primarily used, for gaming BUT as i started to establish more friends on, the platform it then became more of an.

Interpersonal thing like a lot of people Get on discord to talk to people that they wouldn't necessarily see in.

REAL life i have friends across the COUNTRY that i keep up With on DISCORD that i might not even necessarily still game, with actively like maybe here.

And there but it's primarily just something where it's a community based PLATFORM that i use to talk to PEOPLE that i don't have any connection with in.

REAL life I asked chase if while in the process of playing games and Chatting, on discord he only communicated with those he knew in, real life or if he connected.

With, strangers, oh.

Yeah it's primarily strangers and, funny ENOUGH like i have friends in real life that have introduced me to people on Discord that i've never met in, real life that have then gone on to introduce me to more people and more People in before you, know it you're a part of this twenty thirty forty person discord and you don't know ninety five percent.

OF them I, asked chase with the discussion Centered, around.

Honestly Especially as i've, grown older the discord has gone well above and beyond.

Just gaming now we're talking, about politics we're talking about, social relationships we're talking about what people are doing in their, free time what their.

Interests are it goes way.

Beyond gaming and it's to the point NOW where i can SAY that i have a very solid grasp of the types of People that i'm dealing with strictly through discord without ever having actually.

MET them I asked chase if he'd encountered conversations that.

Turned, Volatile ABSOLUTELY and, I mean i'm not even.

Gonna lie most of the people on this discord are older guys or just like guys, my age and they're.

Strictly gamers and a lot of these people the farther AND farther i get removed from the PEOPLE that i know in.

Real life the more people that are Different that, i'm meeting a lot of which are people that don't really have interaction with other people in.

Real life like a lot of, these people most of their relationships Exist through discord or through, online platforms and it's very obvious when you're interacting with those people because they socialize a little bit differently than the people that you know in.

Real life let's stop here for.

Another break we'll be back in.

A moment.

In cell chatter can be, hate, filled menacing.

And threatening in what might be the absolute worst instance of what, can Happen Producer carolyn miller Spoke With.

Kim devns kim's seventeen year, Old Daughter, bianca devins was tragically killed her killer that took brutal Pictures of bianca's corpse and posted to in.

Cell groups seventeen Year Old bianca Devins of utica was found dead in a wooded area at the end of.

The street when police arrived on, the scene, The Suspect Brandon andrew Clark, of cicero laying on top of the tarp covering.

The Body in july, twenty nineteen the social Media platform discord was buzzing about a photo that appeared to show a dead.

Young woman her killer posted the images of her body online and they soon.

Went viral but if that wasn't, horrific enough the images were also sent to the victim's family.

On discord it's fairly common for people to post gore and disturbing images just to sort of get a rise out.

Of people.

The image, was shared turned, into memes and used to her As the devons family in an online campaign that goes on to.

This day.

My Name Is.

KIM devons i am the Mother Of, bianca devons who was murdered in.

TWENTY nineteen i don't want to say.

His, name okay then Don't say.

Bianca was she was an amazing person with so.

Much potential she.

Was seventeen she had just graduated high school two weeks prior to.

Her death she had plans to pursue a degree.

In psychology she wanted to work with adolescence because she herself struggled with some pretty severe mental.

Health issues she was.

Very artsy she was into music.

And art she especially liked.

Digital art my favorite memories are just our times of us, Being together LIKE when i Think OF bianca i always think of like she was always by.

My side she, was definitely, you know my little.

Best friend like since she, was little she was.

Always attached was she an only child or did she have any?

Brothers sisters so she has her, Younger, sister olivia and then She has maddie who is, now eight and she has a stepbrother and.

To stepsisters she's the oldest.

Of everyone so she had just graduated from high school and she wanted to go, to college and you said she wanted to go.

Into psychology she.

Was going to start in her.

Community College so biaka was a young senior in.

High school she, was still, you know seventeen and would have turned eighteen in.

The fall so she wasn't ready to leave.

Home yet so she had decided she wanted to do her first two years at community college and then she would transfer to a four.

Year school but she wasn't ready to leave.

Me Yet, so biaka you never knew what kind of like aesthetic she was gonna have from day.

To day she often dyed her hair in the middle of.

The night we never knew what we were going to wake up to.

Color hair she.

Was seventeen she was just kind of.

Finding herself she was just very much a, free spirit but confident, in herself like she knew she kind of merged to the beat of her, own drum but had confidence.

In that.

You don't have to say, His name i'll.

Say it She Knew.

Brandon clark would you consider?

Them friends they were.

Good friends we all, knew him.

You know she'd introduced him to everyone in.

The family they hadn't known each other for like, too long but it was a, few months, and yeah they were.

Good Friends on, july thirteenth, Twenty nineteen bianca went to a Concert With.

Brandon clark He murdered bianca in the early Morning of.

July fourteenth it's been widely Reported that bianca met up with a male friend, Of, hers alex at, the concert that the pair shared, a kiss and that's somehow it Quote set brandon off and led to.

The murder we asked him to clarify the events of.

The, evening.

No that is.

A misconception he had planned this.

Very clearly there's clear evidence at least a, week prior including on a note in his notesap on his Phone from july eleventh entitled, murder suicide and he had a list he makes lists for, LIKE everything i mean down to like his.

Favorite cereals they found in his jail sadelel List of so there was a list that was Created on, july eleventh and there was other evidence Prior to july eleventh of.

His planning if he was.

Planning this did he ever have a motive as.

To, why no he still maintains it was just extreme.

Emotional disturbance he has never given us.

A why if we had gone, to trial the motive presented by the prosecution would have been.

Number one he was just obsessed with murder and it was something that he researched, a lot and, you know read up on a lot of different serial killers and, you know.

Murder cases and he was very Jealous.

Of bianca she had this really.

Bright future she just kind of had everything that he didn't and that.

He wanted part of the motive would have been LIKE if i can't, have you no.

One Can because bianca had made it very clear that they were just friends and he definitely wanted more and.

She didn't she just wanted to.

Be friends so that was definitely another part of his motive was extreme jealousy AND if i can't, have you no.

One can one of my vivid memories is sitting down with the police at the police station and them telling me there were no red FLAGS because i WHAT did?

I miss i did not.

SEE anything i never would have, Expected this and they, were like there really weren't any red flags that you could.

Have seen and it wasn't necessarily this concert or any type.

Of event it was just he's.

A murderer he's evil and if it wasn't, your daughter and if, it wasn't, you know after, this concert it would have been.

Someone else.

Another time we asked him to walk us through what happened at.

Her home the Morning of, JULY fourteenth i.

Was woken up by My, daughter olivia who was fifteen at, the time and, she said the police are here Something.

About bianca it was like little after, seven am so she's just woken up kind.

Of us they presented that they were coming for a.

Welfare check, that first, you know we're saying with bank, your daughter is?

She here and then they asked me if she went to, a concert and then said that he had posted some concerning things on the internet that he may have.

Hurt her.

What happened?

After that at the time that they came to.

My house the police were also getting calls from people In the discoord server where the picture was, originally posted and THEN they i know that they received a call from, his aunt who he had called after.

The murder he had called and left several messages on family, members' phones and then at some point while they were still at, my house he called them.

One himself in, the meantime while we were trying to figure, this out, you know we were all going through.

Our Phones bianca's instagram was logged into, my PHONE so i was going through her messages to try to find messages between him and her to see if there was any THING that i.

Could find and as we were, doing that my best friend lived with me at, the time and she saw the Picture on instagram and brought it out to my father who was outside talking to.

The police so my father and my friend knew pretty early on that most likely she had.

Been killed.

He took a photo of her and posted.

It, online yes he Took, several yeah and he did that.

Right, away yes he recorded the, entire thing and then he did take some, still photos posted that On her, discord server and then he moved her out of his car covered her with.

A tarp he took several photos he Posted to instagram, in snapchat, you know with her body covered in the background with the knife.

Of himself he spray painted May You Never forget me on the roadway in front of.

His car he started a fire and like tried to burn a laptop in a hard drive and some.

Other things really kind of like try to make this as sensationalized.

As, possible really, you know the most attention seeking is as he.

Passively could and then he made sure to call name one.

ONE himself i think the police knew we're trying to confirm things before, telling us but we knew that something had happened to Be and olivia's friend immediately came over and a round the, same time the police told us that they, you know they, found him and, they found, you know a woman that matched the, act's description and they believe it.

Was her.

OLIVIA'S friend i just, heard This like i've never heard such a scream in, my life as like literal just.

Horrible Scream and olivia's friend had been sent the Picture.

On instagram he was fifteen at the.

Time too he tried to.

Commit suicide he thought it was going to be a, murder suicide and when they, got there he attempted to slit his, own throat.

So he waited for the police to.

Show up before he, did that he took pictures laying on top, of her waited for the police to, show up took a picture and posted like as he was letting, his throat took a picture and posted It.

To snapchat and then as they were wheeling him away in, the ambulance he was asking the police how many news stations had picked up.

The story oh.

My god SO when I say i don't want to give him the attention that, he's seeking it's like every single thing he did was to get as much attention on him.

AS possible i can imagine you guys are just losing your minds about all the photos that were posted and the images that are.

Being circulated what did that do to your.

GRIEVING process i just think we were so much in shock and disbelief that like this had actually happened, to her like that he had done this.

TO her i don't think we really processed that her picture had, Gone viral and, you know it was a few days after and then the police had told, us like, you know we are getting, you know they're just coming in, so Fast like Instagram and facebook are just telling, us like we don't know if we can.

Stop this like people would Tell me, biaco's trending and, you Know Irap bianca devins, was trending and it just none of that really made sense to me at.

The time, like many if, not, Most teenagers bianca spent a lot of time online on, various platforms including discord that's where the death picture was originally posted and began its, insidious circulation propelled by.

In cells we asked him if she knew at the time what an.

Insul, was.

Yes it was A term.

BIAKA used, I mean i wouldn't say she used, it often but once in.

A while, you know biakare just telling me about like things going on In her internet groups and with.

Her friends, YOU know i was familiar with the term.

In cell, you know she would tell me about like in cells On four chan posting about her who represented everything that in, cels, hate, Beautiful confident she oftentimes would help other young girls her age recognize these in cels were trying to groom them and, you know get them away.

From them that the in.

Cel abuse So the intel community and these, you know kind of dark Websites like fourtan and some discordsers like they already hated her to begin with because she thwarted their plans and she stood for everything that.

They hated they typically, hate strong.

Independent women, SO yeah, I was i was familiar with the term at.

The time i've spoken to several experts and in cells.

And psychologists he's not necessarily considered an in cell because he did.

Have girlfriends he did other Girlfriends and bianca, and Stuff.

Murdering bianca these in Cels took brandon and put him on.

A pedestal he was now their hero because, you know he took out.

This egirl.

An egirl stands for electronic or, internet girl popularized on social.

Media platforms often egirls have distinctive fashion aesthetics that my blend emo and, anime styles frequently paired with vibrantly dyed hair and.

Wing dyeliner.

The thing that, they hated, you know this one particular egir that they.

ESPECIALLY hated i think a lot of experts agree we wouldn't consider him an in cell at.

That point he did have some of the tendencies and, you.

Know ideology but what he did and then the way that he posted all the pictures brought out all the in cells and the Spread of bianca's picture was the in cells and, you know, the messages the horrific messages that friends and family.

Were receiving that was all all that harassment was coming from the in.

CELL community i mean they were making social, media pages, you know praising him as a hero and giving him the attention that he was looking for While harassing biaka's family and.

Exploiting her and do you still get those to?

THIS day, i, do definitely not, as often but every once in, a while like you just never know when you're going to find, a post someone's going to tell you about, a post when you're going to get.

A message but even, you know to this day now that her, you know the older the kid's youngest kids are, now, eight, fourteen, Fifteen sixteen so now it's just this constant fear of are they going to come across?

The picture are they going to come across these posts with these people are saying horrible things about their sister and that she.

DESERVED it, i mean to, this day if you Go On, biaka's instagram there's comments saying that she deserved it and just saying.

AWFUL things i didn't see the picture for about a year and.

A half anytime there was a notification on, my phone someone else picked up my.

Phone first and then about eighteen months after, HER past i was just scrolling on my phone one NIGHT and i Got an instagram notification and the profile picture was the.

Death photo what did that do?

To?

You mentally there's no way to, describe IT because i already was just.

So broken that was.

My baby no one should ever have to, see anyone let alone their child.

Like that so he goes, to trial he does get, found guilty and he got twenty five years.

To life do you feel that you got Justice for brianca or that was that enough?

For?

YOU no i don't think there's a justice in this situation.

At all you keep there's no bringing.

Her back even if he was able to be charged with first degree murder and, you know was sentenced to life, WITHOUT parole i don't feel.

THAT'S justice i.

DON'T feel i, don't, know, like, yeah okay he's going to set his life.

IN prison i felt more Justice when bianca's life was Passed In New york state.

We asked him To explain bianca's law as well as who helped her make progress.

WITH it.

A couple of Weeks after, brihanca's death we started tracking how many times these messages were being sent, to us how many like we literally had, exiuse spreadsheets and we were tracking where, they were, you know where they were being, uploaded to who they were being, sent to how long it was taking for them to be, taken down, you know if they were, being reported what was the outcome of, the report, The response and so we contacted our.

Local congressmen this is just something that really rocked.

Our community and he had brought up the, you know we went to him for help because we could not get a hold of Anyone at Instagram, or facebook and they were the main social media platforms that were allowing these pictures to.

BE shared i know that within like the, First week instagram Told the uticul, police, department like we just can't.

Do anything it's we're just being flooded with.

The pictures it's being shared.

Too often we just can't.

Stop it they just really overstated what, they did what they were going, to do, you know to prevent the pictures from being spread they never really followed through, with anything, you know and they just they kind of, always, said well, you know, our technology it can't, you know.

Catch everything so now.

You have this congressman.

On, board yes so what does he?

Get started he introduced a bail for A Federal beiyanca's law.

And tell Us what byanca's, law is so it's changed.

Over time one of our legislative writers actually rode up drafted a really, really good in depth version of A Federal beyanca's law that would, you know have carve outs to repeal section two thirty so that these companies would be held liable if these companies are aware of an offending picture that goes against, their guidelines and it would be, you know as defined in, this bill they are then liable for making sure that it's not shared on.

Their platform it would also create a parent's bill of right and this basically would force the companies to set up a centralized.

Crisis, center WHO like, i said when this happened to us and these pictures were spreading and, GOING viral i was very LUCKY that i had a personal connection to someone.

In power most people don't.

Have that and these companies really do need to have a designated crisis center so that you can speak to someone outside of the in app reporting that you're just reporting to.

A computer and it would not only apply to.

Graphic photos that would, you know, child pornography, child grooming things, like that and then it would also make it a crime and there would be some, you know civil liability for people that are sharing.

These photos on the, federal level what, Happened nothing it.

Got, dropped Unfortunately when biden was, in office he had task force dealing with social.

Media regulation he had social Media task force was it was a part Of his Violence against Women.

Task Force and i've had.

Several conversations we've all seen the, you know the social media Hearings.

In congress Now that trump's, taken, over unfortunately that has all kind of.

Gone Away even Instagram and facebook they've repealed a lot of their community guidelines, and regulations so, you know we've really taken a lot of.

Steps backwards we did Pass A new york state law which is it's very limiting because it only Applies To New.

York state, so basically if that's something's being shared With The New york state and that IS.

Called Niaka and caroline's law that makes it a crime to share crime scene photos any kind of graphic crime scene photos with the intent, to harm SO that i mean that's always it's, very encouraging but it's also it's just very limited because it's just a.

STATE law, i, mean ideally we need.

International regulation and THAT'S where i really felt like we had, some, Justice, like okay we're.

Doing something we are because that's automatically like when, THIS happened i just Went into, mamma, Bearmon, like okay we're not going to have her more exploited in, Her DEATH like i still have to protect.

My daughter and by working on laws so that other people don't have to go through what we went through and we are still, going through WAS where i found some JUSTICE and i felt like, we were, you know actually doing Something.

For bianca it's DEFINITELY something i will always.

Advocate for and it's hard to see the.

Harassment online it is hard to see people saying negative things and just really vile things about.

Your daughter, you know my mom always does the like consider, the source, you know do we really care what these insuls in like the basements or, you know with no life, saying right like definitely with, The internet i've seen the worst parts Of, the internet but the best parts Of, the internet and the people telling me how much my daughter helped them even in, Her death like the message that she's in her spirit and how much like hope people are getting from her story and from, you know seeing things that, she's written her videos that definitely outweighs the bad and that in our darkest, worst times that is definitely what helps carry.

Us through and my biggest piece of advice is to just watch your kids and know what.

They're doing PIANK and i were.

VERY close i manaitored both my children's, Social MEDIA so i am not going TO say i would never SAY that i always knew exactly what she.

Was doing she, Was seventeen like she knew how to, hide things exactly everything she was doing In.

The INTERNET but i was pretty knowledgeable About, the internet the, different websites the, different apps what was.

Going ON and i think that that's like the biggest message with your kids is just the end or not can be a, great place but also it can be.

Very dangerous so it's very very easy to get indoctrinated in, these dark, evil websites and, you know these, intel websites They're, just yeah it's such that you can't even, imagine that like that people are talking about and like the theories they come, up with in the ideals that they have and the messages.

They're spreading it alters, your brain just as like someone that you, would think right is like your average.

Normal person just you can't tell, me that like reading that doesn't alter your brain at some point and if you are reading it enough and then you start like connecting.

With that kim is talking about, echo chambers Which doctor lay described to us earlier in.

This episode what happened To the devin's family is a prime and hideous example of what constant negativity and violent messages with no escape.

Can do and that's the problem With the internet is you would never be talking about this stuff out.

In, public people most people would never be saying these things in public now wouldn't be ALLOWED on tv or, streaming services any kind of.

Cable networks IT'S while, I knew i personally knew how special my, daughter was it was really really nice to see how special she was to.

The world and, you know even to, THIS day i still get messages and that's amazing, to see, you know she really is still making an impact on people.

ALL over i hate, when people as they said it a lot in, the beginning we'll just get off, the internet stay off.

Social media but why WHY should i not be able to Get supports like there are so many good support Groups, on facebook, you know for parents that have lost, their children or, grief groups and ESPECIALLY.

Through covid, YOU know covid happened just a few months after.

Her passing and WHY can i not connect for support or stay in contact with my family just because there's a certain set of evil people that want to.

Ruin THINGS so i always hated that when people, Were like i'll just.

Stay, off no why don't we regulate it and make it safe?

For everyone it just needs to.

BE safer i think our laws have not caught up to the technology and.

THE times, i mean just as recently As The charlie.

Clark murder no one needs to see someone, getting, shot right even like the new channels that, we're showing like the blurred, out video you can report on news without having to show something That, GRAPHIC like i feel like people have just become so desensitized and it's just it's things.

Like that it's just NOT necessary.

I don't i don't understand the sensationalism and how people just don't think anything of watching someone get shot.

AND die i don't, understand it but, it definitely, you know our society has just become way too desensitized.

To violence, so yes we, need regulation we.

NEED laws i don't Know that i'll ever.

Accept it how do you accept that your daughter is never?

Coming home, you know this seventeen year old, Healthy GIRL and i.

DON'T know i.

DON'T know i think that we just survive.

Each day was there also a scholarship Formed in?

Bianca's, name yes so we formed a scholarship and the scholarship goes to a college student at our local university that is pursuing psychology and specifically with the intent to work.

With adolescents so kind of a way to help people To achieve.

Bianca's, dream finally We, ASKED kim, i said any final ways She'd like bianca's memory to be?

Carried on Be, like bianca, be kind don't spread negativity on.

The internet.

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