Welcome to Zombie Book Club, the only book club where the book is a total nerd session about fabric.

I'm Dan, and when I'm not nerding out about Kevlar firefighter coats, I'm writing a book about survivors of a zombie apocalypse who navigate their difficulties of life in a safe zone where resources are scarce and class warfare means life and death.

Dan, we just heard from some fans that they really liked you talking about your characters.

Yeah.

That wasn't about your characters.

Kind of.

I mean, it's closer.

I'm I'm giving away some kind of clo like less generic details these days.

Because I kind of it took a long time, but I feel like I'm finally, I finally know what the story is.

Okay.

Yeah.

It took a long time.

It's torture for me to want to know a little bit and not be able to share it.

So I don't know how you're doing it.

I'm Leah.

I'm Dan's biggest fan, but I'm also my own human, contrary to the first episode where I said I had zero dimensions.

Um Wow.

Call back to episode one.

Yeah.

I mean it was episode two.

It was up, it was uh down there.

Never gonna do a thing where like every every episode you add like an extra.

So what would we be now?

I'd be the I'd have 126 dimensions.

I think so.

Wow, that makes me extremely enlightened, I think.

Yeah.

I'm vibrating at a whole new level.

I'm Leah, again, in case you forgot that and all this back and forth.

Welcome back, friends.

Welcome back, zombesties.

I was actually hoping we would talk about pooping in the apocalypse today, but we're putting that on pause because uh we have a secret surprise guest coming to talk about us with what they have deemed the poopocalypse.

The poop pop cliplops?

Pooh poopocalypse.

I can't even say it.

Um there's too many poop poops in it.

It's not scheduled yet.

Poop pop.

But it's it's brewing, it's being digested, and it's gonna come out.

Poop pop clops.

The poop.

I can't say it.

Poop poop calypse.

Poopocalypse.

Let us know if you can say poop pop to ops.

Have you been through a poopocalypse?

I feel like at this point, I mean, honestly, as a baby, you go through your own poop occalypses, so this should be a relatable episode.

Uh, but for today, we're gonna be talking about what you should wear in the zombie apocalypse and where you will most likely be bitten.

Yeah, so um, I it's been a long time since I've planned an episode before.

Mostly it's Leah because I don't have the time.

But this is something that I've I've been thinking about a long time because this comes directly from like the research that I've been doing writing my own book.

Um, and something that I have obsessed obsessed about ever since talking to firefighters at Living Dead Weekend.

In June of 2025.

Who told me that their coats were made of Kevlar and they're awesome, apparently.

I like Kevlar because it makes really super light canoes.

Yeah.

That's all I knew about Kevlar.

Yeah.

I didn't realize that that was the genesis of it because this started, I ended up putting on the list for topics we should discuss because I peeked over Dan's shoulder one day, as I do while he's writing, because I'm like trying to sneak peeks into his stories.

And I just saw, can I say it yet?

I saw the words zombie bite sleeves.

And then there was like a really complex table he put together about zombie bite sleeves, and I was like, we have to talk about this.

Yeah, we're gonna talk about it.

Um we release episodes every Sunday.

So subdermal.

What does that mean?

It's um it's it's uh it's under your skin.

So it's like it's usually used in pertaining to biting or injecting.

Sometimes you get a subdermal injection.

Does a zombie have to bite you to the subdermal levels of your body to inject you?

The dermal, the dermis is your skin.

Okay.

So to break the skin is to have a subdermal injury.

All right.

I think.

I don't know.

I'm not a doctor, don't listen to me.

Or do life updates, Leah.

Do we have any life updates?

Um, well, one, you should subscribe if you haven't yet.

Thanks.

I already said subdermal.

That's all they need to know, Leah.

You never know when a new person is joining and they're like, what the fuck?

We say words wrong on purpose.

Yes.

So when I say scissors, know everybody that I can't actually say the word scissors.

I don't know that that's actually true.

I just proved it.

But we're gonna do life updates before scissors.

It actually hurts me to say it that way, though.

Scissors.

Scissors.

Scissors.

Scissor.

Uh what are what are our life updates, Leah?

Well, uh, in two days I have my next and final art fair for the Christmas season.

I only wanted to sign up for a few to see what was viable.

Also, the sign-up costs are like a lot.

Yeah.

So hoping that one goes well.

It's it's got the word unicorn in the event name, which makes me love it instantly because before I was obsessed with zombies.

It was unicorns.

Yeah.

This could have been the unicorn podcast if Dan wanted to write a fantasy book about unicorns.

Yeah.

That reminds me of uh of a book that we remember hearing about.

I forget who told us all about it.

It was about violent unicorns.

Oh.

And it was weird.

It was deeply disturbing, and I don't think we should promote it at all or even talk about even further because the per yeah, let's not go there.

Uh, and you know we support erotica, so you can just leave it to your imagination what we would not support.

Uh, I'm also feral.

I'm enjoying a micro-retirement period.

I'm um well, okay, September, December, or September, October, November.

Yeah, I'm almost exactly three months unemployed.

And I've had the last two weeks off from like really hardcore job searching.

I've had a few interviews in that time period, but no applications because it's the holidays and like people aren't posting jobs very much right now.

Yeah, and they're not following up with leads very often either.

No.

Um, in fact, when I did an interview yesterday, she said like I'm way behind on everything, and this is gonna take till January.

And I was like, so what I'm hearing is in a best case scenario, I'm working in January, which means I don't have to work for the next month, which maybe financially is not great.

But man, is it fun to wake up when you want and go to sleep when you want and not have a million jobs to apply for.

So I'm gonna try and just enjoy this period.

Yeah.

Um I found it to be uh strangely busy lately.

I don't know why.

It's not like I'm doing a huge amount of things, but it seems like there's always like something every day that's like a little bit destabilizing that I need to like redo my whole day just to go do that thing or to, you know, you know how it goes.

Um, so somehow we're recording this at the last possible minute again, instead of being ahead.

You'd think that two unemployed people whose only obligation is to put out an episode of the podcast would have done it sooner.

And it's my fault.

Thank you for acknowledging that.

Leah asked me many times this week, you want to record an episode?

I'm like, uh, but to be fair, I was recovering from having um vaccinations.

True.

And my arm wanted to fall off.

And also, there were other things.

Also, you're just a procrastinator.

I had to convert the lawnmower into a snowblower.

Then snowblow, there's snow.

It's not much, but there's some.

Well, I had a fun thing that I did in this time period, even though we weren't getting ready for an episode.

I did a full holiday guide to zombie stories in the age of AI.

All authors we know and love.

And there's more than 30 books, comics, graphic novels that we promoted in the last week in lieu of we're basically saying, hey, buy this instead of anything from a big corporation.

Yeah.

And people seem to really love it.

So if you're listening to this and you haven't seen that, it's on Instagram.

Um, I'll have the posts pinned for a little while, anyways.

But basically, if you think you know someone who doesn't like zombies or says they're not into it, my holiday guide is kind of a challenge to that because I organize all the different threads, there's six of them, into genres.

So if your friends like romance, you can let them read Catherine Breen's Rod the Zombie or How We Survived.

They like erotica, zombie reerection, a really good time.

Yeah.

They like it a little bit smuddy, but not quite erotica.

The Z-word.

You want found family and like a journey of someone healing as a human being, babysitter of the apocalypse.

And it goes on and on and on.

30 of those, and different genres, sci-fi, fantasy, horror, obviously horror, thrillers, comedy, it's all there for you.

I love that because it's something that I've been saying for a long time is that like the zombie apocalypse, it's like it's it's an environmental hazard around a story that's happening.

And um, and we've talked to so many people who were not interested at all in zombie books because they just happen to come up to us and say, What's all this zombie stuff about?

And then we're like, Yeah, you like zombies?

And you're like, not really.

And uh, and it's great because you can be like, Well, what do you like?

And they're like, I like magic and you know, I like fantasy, but also like I mostly just read like kids' books.

Wizards of the Apocalypse.

Yeah, there you go.

Yeah.

Young Adult Fantasy by author X Zombie with zombies in it.

Yeah.

I want to give one special shout out, uh, because it was in the holiday guide, and you may have noticed that we've been having an ad lately that pops up.

Right.

We have uh we're doing that because we really, really, really, really want to see funded the first issue of Maze staken, not stirred by our zombie Ollie Eats Brains.

Yeah.

Wouldn't it be amazing if that ad just played and that now we're talking about it while the person while they're listening?

It could happen.

And they're like, why are they saying it twice?

I just want to say Ollie is$275 away from meeting their goal, which is really close.

And you could be the person who helps take them over the edge.

Yeah.

And this is my most anticipated uh comic that I know is coming in 2026.

Yeah.

I've read the series online on Ollie Eats Brand's website, which is really great.

I've seen some of the art.

I've been really lucky to get a little bit of a preview.

Thank you, Ollie and Fede, for letting me see it.

Ollie teased some pages, three pages.

And those three pages, even though they're not even fully colored in yet, not like even close to the final art style, was still amazing to look at.

Yeah.

And Ollie is uh Ollie, don't get a big head, because I know you're probably listening.

So, or you know, just cover your ears so your head does not enlarge.

Uh, is one of the funniest people I've ever met.

And that story is hilarious.

I cannot wait to see it visualized.

Like literally in the two lines I was chuckling uh when I read it online.

So really recommend that you give that a uh checkout.

You know, every little bit counts.

I think if you donate, or if you not donate, if you pledge, if you pledge five dollars, you get a PDF of the comic when it releases, and the estimated delivery date is August 2026, which is pretty reasonable.

Yeah.

Uh, but you can always do more.

But for$5, you are helping an incredible indie creator out, two of them actually, a wonderful artist, Fede, and our friend Ollie Eats Brains.

And you're going to give yourself the gift of a really excellent story.

And if you want to learn more about the story, we actually talked to Ollie about it in the written version, not the comic, since that hasn't come out yet.

Episode 57.

So close.

Which one is it?

Episode 58.

Damn!

And Maze stands for monsters, aliens, zombies, etc.

That's what it stands for.

Because I like the etc.

Ollie's wild brain had so many ideas that they thought to themselves, you know what I'm gonna do?

I'm gonna smush them all together and make the wildest story I could possibly imagine while making people laugh.

And it's a very good time.

Yeah.

Uh Ollie makes me laugh all the time.

So daily.

Yeah.

At least once.

So this is Ollie in print form.

Yeah.

So you can have an Ollie on your shelf.

Yeah, and that's in the show notes.

So please go check it out.

Five bucks is not a lot, but it took goes a long way towards a really big dream a friend of ours has, and frankly, that I really need in my life.

Thank you very much.

Yeah.

Yeah, let's get it.

So let's get to the topic of our episode, Dan.

Yeah.

Do we have any groans from the horde?

Oh, shoot!

We do, but they're about the topic.

Oh.

How so?

Well, when we decided all of late last night that we were finally gonna do the zombie bite sleeves episode, I thought, you know what?

There's this cool zombie uh book club Facebook group that somebody made.

I don't know who.

Me.

Um, it was you.

Where there's some lovely people on there and they probably have ideas.

So I wanted to get some reference points as a starting place of like where we've already seen survivors in a zombie apocalypse deliberately wrap up their arms to defend against zombie bikes.

That's a good that's that's a great topic.

Very first person to answer, our friend Peter, gave us Train de Busan and World War Z.

Do you remember the moments in Train de Busan and World War Z where they wrap their arms down?

I don't remember it in Train de Busan.

Um, but I do remember that I think it did happen.

Um, but I do remember in World War Z, Brad Pitt um duct tapes magazines to his arms.

Yeah, I have a vague memory, and Peter, if you're listening, tell us if this is right, or anybody else who happens to know, I have a vague memory in Train de Business where they're they know they have to go into the next car over and they know there's zombies in there, and that's when they tape up their arms on the train.

Yeah.

I can almost see it, but like my memory, I need to watch that movie again is what I'm what I'm realizing.

Did you know that the 10-year anniversary is coming up for Train to Business this year in 2026?

And how would you know that, Leah?

Because I just made a calendar for Zombie Book Club limited edition.

If you know, you know because you've already ordered it.

Yeah.

However, I did get an extra one, and there may be a giveaway.

Okay.

Uh Among the Dead by Ryan Collie is uh an author who's a part of our group and it's their book.

And apparently they have uh bite sleeves where they protect themselves.

I'm just gonna read a description of this book.

Apparently, it is a whole series.

We need to check it out.

I think that they are um friends of friends of ours.

Yeah, the name sounds familiar.

Yeah, this is the description of it on Amazon.

My name is Sam.

Alice, the love of my life, lives 170 miles away, and she stopped answering the phone.

So I'm leaving the safety of my home to see if she's okay.

A simple journey, except the roads are abandoned, the cities are quarantined, and London is a state of evacuation.

I have a plan.

Not only do I have a plan, but I've seen enough apocalypse films to repair.

This makes sense.

Yeah.

That's why they're using the bite film or bite sleeves.

I can be the hero Alice needs.

I have to be.

170 miles, over 50 million, 50 million potential zombies.

And Alice won't pick up the phone.

Come on, Alice.

Pick up the phone.

Oh, yeah, the dead has started walking just the other day in England.

So that's that's one that's got some zombie bite sleeves in it.

We should check it out.

That sounds really great, and I love the premise because the first thing that I thought of is like, I'm imagining us when we were when we were young and lived very far apart from each other, like like uh over a thousand miles away from each other.

And if the zombie apocalypse happened, I would absolutely be mad-maxing my way to Canada to come find you.

Um, even if that meant that I also had to protect your boyfriend from zombies as well.

Oh wow.

It'd be a complex situation.

If that happened, I'm fairly certain that if it goes the way a movie should go, is that said boyfriend um reveals themselves to be a dick and gets eaten by zombies in a really horrific way.

Yeah.

And then you and I go out into the wasteland together.

Yeah.

Happy ending.

Everybody wins.

And I immediately love you and feel no grief for the other person because he was a jerk.

Yeah.

Well, that sounds great.

That sounds excellent.

Uh, another one shared by Alice B.

Sullivan, a close author friend of ours.

Alice, different Alice.

Yeah.

Uh first they said Milton and The Walking Dead used bite sleeves.

I don't remember who Milton is.

Um, oh, I do kind of remember that.

So Milton, Milton was like the nerdy right hand person of the governor in season three.

Um, he wore glasses.

He he had uh an obvious product placement tea kettle that poured from the bottom, um, which every single time I see it, it like shakes me out of the illusion of the zombie apocalypse.

Um he was doing experiments on people who were near death.

And he was using um you know the the sound thing.

Um sound bowls?

The sound, yeah, sound bowl and music to try to create a trigger in somebody who was near death.

So that when they died, he could use the sound bowl and the music to try to uh activate that memory in the zombie's brain to see if there's still people inside.

And uh spoiler alert, it didn't work out.

That's really too bad.

Yeah.

Frankenstein's monster really liked me.

But I do I do vaguely remember something about him putting on sleeves.

Like leather sleeves.

Was it leather sleeves?

Alice, you gotta let us know.

Let us know, Alice.

But also in their novelette that is part of their aftermath series, uh, Return, Eli wraps the end of his shirt sleeves and pant legs with duct tape to keep them secure and decrease the risk of exposed skin.

That's very reasonable.

Duct tape is everywhere, and it's not gonna affect your ability to like move too much, I don't think.

Yeah.

So I've done this when I was a kid, you know.

As a kid, I was like a forest creature.

Um, I spent all of my time in the woods, and something that bothered me so much was, you know, getting caught up in some blackberry bushes or thorns or something.

And I'm I made a pair of pants.

It wasn't like it wasn't uh duct tape, I used electrical tape.

I remember you telling me this story, actually.

And um, and I mean they looked like leather pants because I covered every square inch with black electrical tape, and they were really hot, really hard to walk around in, and the glue from the tape kind of like eventually with the heat seeped through my pants, so my legs were sticking to the inside of my pants.

Um, but I I just strode through the blackberry bushes as if they weren't even there.

We should do this again next summer.

Let's do it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, this book, uh just gonna give a little shout out for it.

It's called Return again by Alice B.

Sullivan as part of a it's an aftermath short part of that series.

In desperate need of supplies, Elijah ventures into a city teeming with undead.

But when his perilous journey goes awry and he's backed into a corner, the only thing keeping Elijah fighting for his life is the promise he made to seven-year-old Lionel to return.

Oh no, is Lionel alone out there somewhere?

Lionel.

You know Lionel.

There's a theme so far of Among the Dead in Return, which is that like, and I think it's a real one, people are willing to risk their lives for someone they love.

Yeah.

Or someone they feel responsible for.

Yeah.

I think I think this is has potential to be a really compelling story.

I I'm absolutely gonna grab that one.

Same Z.

Yeah.

Um Alice is quickly becoming one of my favorite people.

And authors, yeah.

If if she wasn't already, which actually she is, and has been ever since we met her, um, at Living Dead weekend.

Uh the the more I learn about Alice and the more I get to know Alice, the more exemplary of a human being she proves herself to be.

Yeah, literally today she just mentioned that uh she was sore.

I'm Alice, we're just telling your business now.

Uh that she was sore from shoveling snow.

Yeah.

And that she did it for one of her elderly neighbors.

And I'm like, of course you did, you angel.

Of course you did.

Anyways, yeah, you should buy Alice's books.

That's the point we're trying to make here.

Yeah.

Uh one person says they just listed it.

Train to Business, The Walking Dead, X Heroes.

I don't know that one.

I don't know that one either.

Um, World War Z book mentions layering and makeshift body armor.

Definitely.

Uh, they bring up Brad Pitt taping things to their arms.

Um, that there was makeshift armor in Black Summer.

They wrote Black Dumber, but I'm gonna assume that was uh typo, and Z Nation.

And the zombie survival guide recommends layering and tape.

I don't remember the one in Black Summer.

Um, but I believe in Z Nation.

Yeah.

And then we have one more book, Last Man Standing by Keith Taylor.

This one is being uh suggested by Courtney.

It is also a trilogy.

I love it because we all know there's one thing that many zombie aficionados and readers love is like a multi-series epic world experience.

Yeah.

Uh so Courtney doesn't describe where it happened, so we'll just give you a quick description of this book.

Bangkok, March 2018.

The world looked on in horror as millions of innocent lives were snuffed out in a matter of hours.

Countless men, women, and children slaughtered without mercy, torn apart by a violent mob that attacked without reason, motive, or warning.

Tom Freeman witnessed the aftermath.

He reported on the tragedy and looked into the eyes of the sole survivor and old friend, and what he saw looking back sent him home or sorry, sent him running home to the United States, back to safety, back to a place where the world made sense and the putrid stink of the dead didn't haunt his nightmares.

Turns out he didn't run quickly enough.

They're coming.

Remain indoors, gather supplies, find a weapon.

The zombies are here and they're hungry.

This is the last man's standing trilogy, complete, unabridged, and collected for the first time in a single volume.

Wow.

That sounds that sounds also quite perilous.

Yeah, uh, it's from the author of the internationally bestselling This Is the Way the World Ends, an Oral History of the Zombie War.

That sounds cool too.

Wow.

So all of these books we've been referencing will be in the show notes for you to check out.

All right.

And I think now we're ready for the main event.

Dan's main event.

Dan's info dump.

Um another kind of poop occalypse.

So poop the plops.

I literally can't say it.

You know, there was a point in my life where I thought that poop humor was like so base and terrible.

Yeah, it's below me.

And I don't feel that way anymore.

Um, so yeah, I don't even really know what to call this topic, but uh we're gonna talk about zombie bites and what you should wear to avoid them.

Maybe that's what we're calling it.

Um this could also be useful when working potentially with dogs you don't know.

Um let's talk about some other applications.

Dogs you don't know, shitty neighbors.

Yeah.

Um going out in the blackberry bushes.

Yeah.

Um drunkards.

Drunkards.

You gotta break through a window.

Yeah.

So these are there's some real life applications here.

Yeah, there's there's all kinds of uses.

I mean, you know, it might not even might not even be protecting yourself against bites.

Maybe uh knife wielding psychopath.

Exactly.

And some of these things might help you, maybe a little bit.

A little bit more than more than going out with no sh no shirt on.

That's for sure.

No shirt, no shoes, zombie bites.

So when this is this is gonna be this is gonna be an info dump.

I'm ready.

This is what happens.

I'm gonna close my laptop.

Yeah, close it for a little bit.

I'm just gonna take you on a ride.

Okay.

Um it's been a while since I've since I've planned an episode because I haven't had the time, but when I do, man, it is a dump.

Speaking of poop pop to plops.

That's you're stealing my poop joke.

The info dump is going to be it's piling up.

Um people love your info dumps, so go.

I this this started when we went to Living Dead weekend.

I talked to some firefighters and they told me about the Kevlar jackets that they wear.

Yeah, you explained.

I didn't know they were made of Kevlar.

So immediately I'm like, they're made of Kevlar?

That's crazy.

Because like Kevlar is what uh bulletproof helmets are made out of.

The uh body armor, like what's sitting next to me in this.

Yeah, Dan has protective body armor right beside him.

Um because PTSD.

You know, uh uh pants for riding motorcycles that keep you from losing all of your skin at 200 miles an hour.

They're made of Kevlar.

It's an amazing material.

Um super ultra-light canoes.

Yeah.

Again, my only reference point.

You combine it with a with a resin, you can make a really hard surface that's also really lightweight.

So it's it's crazy.

So I that I'm like, what I didn't even know.

Um, so it but it also got me thinking about this old stand-up bit from this guy named Dmitry Martin.

Um, this is like 2005, 2006.

He's a really funny guy, you should look him up.

And uh and he said he had this bit where he was like, I was at a party and I saw a guy with a leather jacket, and I thought, that's cool.

Then I saw a guy with a leather vest, and I thought, that's not cool.

It was then that I realized what coolness is all about.

Leather sleeves.

That makes complete sense.

Um and also another thing that runs through my mind a lot, especially while I'm writing, is like you're watching uh you're watching a show like um The Walking Dead or Z Nation or a movie.

Um, and somebody's hiding a bite, but they're always hiding in like some crazy location, like the middle of their back.

Yeah.

We've seen that before.

We've seen it on the stomach, the middle of the back, uh like the the shoulder in between the neck and the shoulder, like under a leather jacket.

It's like how did the zombie get under your leather jacket?

Did it bite through the leather jacket?

I don't see teeth marks.

And also, can a zombie bite through a leather jacket?

No.

I don't think so.

Not if you not if they don't have enough time.

Um, so I also I so I also want to talk about like the where zombie bites are going to occur because like a leather jacket is heavy and hot.

Yeah, hands.

But what if what if you just had what if just sewed some leather sleeves onto your cotton t-shirt?

Just cover the parts that are are necessary.

I feel like anywhere that has like um a level of like I don't know how to explain this uh for non-visually, but like your shoulders, like the top of your shoulder, your hands, your nose is biteable.

Pretty easy.

Your nose is biteable, it's true.

But I think, yeah, generally speaking, like from the shoulder, from the neck all the way through to your hands is your most vulnerable point.

Yeah.

So um, so I want I wonder.

Unless it's a zombie who who doesn't have who's on the floor, a crawling zombie.

We're gonna talk about all these things.

Okay.

So um I there's no real like statistics that you can find about like where it's most likely to be bitten by a human being.

Like there's no studies, there's no um, there's no reports, there's no like uh police report studies that are like trying to find out where people are bitten the most.

Like people just don't care, I guess.

But there are some things that um that help me come to these conclusions.

So like the first one is a book called Forensic Pathology by Vincent JM DeMaio.

Um, and that's uh it's a it's a a forensics study about all kinds of things, and in that it it shows a lot of like defensive wounds.

And he finds that most people who are defending themselves against an attacker um have defensive wounds on their arms and hands.

Uh there's also some uh multiple police training manuals that talk about practical aspects of self-defense, um, specifically in upper limb engagements against uh armed opponents.

And that can help us determine some of these numbers.

And another thing is um some statistics from the CDC about uh dog bites.

That would make sense.

Yeah.

But also I want to point out that dog teeth, this feels like something I shouldn't have to say, but I'm going to.

Dog teeth and human teeth are different.

Dog teeth are gonna have a hell of an easier time getting in places like I've seen a dog bite somebody's thigh.

That's kind of a hard place to really bite with a human mouth.

Yeah.

But when you got those uh those big tefers.

Yeah.

And in a paper published by the NIH um on their website about uh animal and human bite wounds, they found that the majority of defensive wounds against dogs that are attacking are on the hands and arms, uh, with the exception being children who are often attacked on the face and neck.

I feel like in it's instantly we're in you know, not zombie bites, but as soon as we get into dog bites, we should have done a trigger warning.

Trigger warning.

Because I know people who've been, I know like a lot of people have been bitten by dogs.

It's not uncommon.

So sorry for that.

I think we're done with talking about dogs.

Yeah, we're done talking about dogs.

Okay.

Um, so what I put together is what I believe is your risk percentage based on body part for a zombie bite.

Um, right off the top, we got forearms and hands.

Forearms is going to be like a 30% chance.

Hands 20.

Um, because that's your primary defensive zone.

Your instinct is to raise your hands and block and push and grab.

Why are hands less than forearms?

Uh well, if you think about like where your hands might go if you were pushing somebody away, your forearm is going to be closer to their mouth.

Good point.

Um, but hands are right there.

Uh they could easily grab on, but I feel like if they grab onto your hand, they're more likely to bite the wrist or the forearm.

That makes sense.

Yeah.

Um then we've got lower legs and shins, where we're looking at I think 10%, because this is going to be rare.

Uh, you're really only going to be exposing your lower extremities to a zombie if you are on the ground and tackled, or if you're climbing a ladder.

Or you're dangling your legs into some water and there's underwater zombies pointing towards you, then it's very higher.

So there's some environmental context.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I gave that 10% thighs, 5%, because it's closer to the center of your defensive zone.

Your hands and arms are going to be defending that at those areas, and also that's right where your groin is.

And your instinct to uh to protect the groin, it's very high.

Is groin in your list here?

It is.

You want to guess where it is?

Like percentage?

Yeah.

Are we talking about innies or outies?

Um, I'm thinking about outies.

Okay.

I think the percentage would be lower for the innies, but what do you think for outside?

I think it's important to have percentages for both.

Yeah.

Equal opportunity biting.

What percentage chance do you think for the outies?

Um well, there's a lot of size factors there, Dan.

If we're talking um the big swinging dicks of 28 years later fame, it's still not gonna be as high as the hands.

So I'm gonna say 25%.

Wow, that's pretty high.

But that's that's when you're looking at it's they're they're shh long.

Um, I think your average buddy might be 15%.

Um but also like you may you if there's a little bit of cute belly fat going on, that also increases your your likelihood.

Like the the fupa area?

Yeah, you've got if you've got a fupa either fat upper putt pussy or penis.

Yeah.

I don't think we've ever used the word pussy on this show.

Isn't that interesting?

There it is.

This has happened now.

Um your fupa.

Yes, your fat up or some blank area.

Um, yeah, there could be a little cute biteable spot.

That's a good point.

And these are these are um variables.

Yeah.

Uh 2%.

Two percent?

Two percent.

Why is it less than a hard to get to place?

Harder than the thigh?

Yes.

I guess harder.

Because like your your instinct is going to be to like buckle down and protect that area.

Remember that part of blood quantum where uh oh my god, that's right.

Blood quantum, somebody gets their dick bit off.

Yep.

Um I'm gonna so shoulders and upper arms, uh, 10%.

Shoulders.

Huh.

So I my feeling on this is that if you uh have arms and your ambulatory, uh getting to your shoulder or your upper arms is going to be difficult if you have forearms and hands, because those are gonna be pushing.

Well, what if they're coming up at you from behind, which is a very common issue?

Well, that's another story.

That's a variable, Leah.

I feel like you just made up some numbers.

Yes, but but I think that they're accurate.

All right.

Um, but there could be an entirely different list if we're talking about uh getting attacked from behind.

Yeah, I feel like there needs to be like, first of all, height, like there's so many variables of body height, body size, yeah, where the zombies are coming from.

If it's a short zombie, you might have a higher risk of getting bitten in the groin.

So moving into some of our favorite bite locations, the t the torso, which is like the front of the chest and stomach and the back, they both get 5%.

Yeah.

Um fair torso is like the most protected by the arms area.

So unless you're pinned and tackled, um, they're not taking a bite out of your nipples.

Like unless they have your arms, unless they have your hands pinned down, um, or they've already eaten your hands.

Zomb babies.

Yeah.

Um, but we're also this is also like a one-bite situation.

Okay.

Uh, and the back, unless unless you're attacked from behind, they're not getting your back.

Okay.

And even then, I feel like they have to pin you to the ground.

Where are you at with neck?

Neck and throat is next five percent.

Huh.

Um, it's less commonly exposed.

Like the whole idea of a zombie coming up and just coming straight for the neck, like your arms are in front of you.

Yeah.

Um, if you're not going to be able to do it again, that's a behind, they'd have a better chance, but like they have to really get in there real close.

There's a lot of opportunity, even from behind.

All you have to do is throw your arm behind you and elbow them.

I think you're gonna smell their snanky breath.

Yeah, you're gonna smell it coming.

Yeah.

Uh, hopefully.

Although you might not be able to because your smell challenges.

Um, I do think that these numbers change when you're talking about specifically an attack from behind.

Okay.

So this is a front-facing attack and you're standing.

Um, face.

Head and face, five percent.

Um, so you're not going to this isn't going to happen unless you're panicked and you're scrambling and you're down on the ground.

Um, and very rare in upright engagements.

Like this would have to be something where like they either have so much momentum or there's like other zombies behind pushing forward and you're pinned against a wall.

Uh the face wound seems to be the most common wound in the show we're watching right now, which is all of us are dead.

Yeah, there's a lot of them.

Do you think that's unrealistic?

I I do to an extent.

Like, I think it can happen, but I think it's a very low percentage.

Um, one thing that it I do like seeing in All of Us Are Dead is a lot of the people do have bite marks on their arms.

Yeah.

Uh, which I think is very, very realistic.

My favorite place to draw a zombie bite is on the face.

Just a sidebar.

It's it's very visually appealing.

Yeah.

That's probably why they did it in the show.

Because it's one of the few exposed skin areas, um, if you're fully clothed.

Um, the last one that I have besides genitals is is feet, which I put at 3%.

Um, some of the reasons for that is your feet are probably the most protected material-wise.

Uh if you're even if you're wearing tennis shoes, like the nylon fabric of the shoe is going to be too hard to bite through for a zombie.

Um, and the only time that your feet are going to be uh vulnerable is from crawling zombies, or when you're climbing up uh a ladder, or again, if you're dangling your feet in the water while swimming, which might be the only time it would be possible because you'd have your shoes off.

True.

Dangling those toes in the pond.

Yeah, you're sleeping.

It's an easily grabbable thing.

Yeah, you're sleeping on the dock with your feet in the water, or a crawling zombie.

I mean, like you're childhood fit or childhood fear unlocked.

Um, my I could not dangle my feet or my hands over the edge of the bed because something was going to eat them.

Okay, now you're giving me ideas.

Because like somebody asleep in their safe house, and then like a zombie gets in, and they they walk up, and the the first thing they see is some, you know, these uh these little piggies sticking out from underneath the blanket.

They're going it's starting because it's gonna look like hanging over the edge, hanging over the edge, too, like just dangling.

I I think that hasn't been done yet.

I I mean they almost bit uh one of those wormy zombies on 28 years later almost bit somebody sleeping.

That's true.

But they didn't actually and they weren't on the bed.

That's true.

They're going for the face.

Yeah.

See, if they if they went for the toes, they might have gotten away with it.

But also an easy place to amputate.

So if the laws of amputation in this reality work, yeah, you might survive.

That's something I wonder too with the groin attack.

Like, if you get your dick bit off, do you just cut it off?

That's an amputation.

Like and you know, you're gonna be you're gonna be spraying out some blood.

Like that's an arterial wound.

Like you're gonna like there's not a whole lot that's gonna be going back in.

Yeah, there's just some things that are logistically challenging, like peeing.

I don't know how that happened.

I don't know how that happens.

I think in a world of medical care, like it could happen, like they could fix that, but I'm not sure in a world if it's a zombie apocalypse, you gotta cut off your dick, but you're gonna survive anyways.

Oh sort of what I mean.

After you cut it off.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I just thought you meant in general.

I was like, we could look at some medical.

This is the grossest episode we've ever done.

All right.

So um with that out of the way, you know, we're we're talking forearms and hands alone, 50% chance that you're gonna get bitten.

And if you can if you include your your shoulders and upper arms, we're we're talking 60% right away.

Okay.

Then if you uh then if you if you add up your your legs, your lower extremities, your feet and your genitals.

Not the genitals.

Yeah, we're talking like we're we're accounting already for 85% of your zombie bites.

It's gonna be either your lower extremities or your upper extremities.

The torso, neck, and head are a very low risk of of bite.

You just described the entire body.

I d I did describe the entire body.

What I'm saying is that the torso, neck, and head are very low risk.

Oh if you have a big thing.

Well the part of your body that's a snake.

Yeah.

The snake part of your body.

Unless you're a snake.

And then it's a high risk because it's all you got.

But if you got weird little limbs on your sides, yeah.

Then you're in trouble.

Yeah, exactly.

Okay, we're on the right page.

Okay.

So like the the the head, neck, and torso is only like a 15% chance total.

And it's like a big part of your body.

But because of these extremities, your extremities are like really good at defending your body.

But it also, if you're fighting something that will infect you and kill you just by biting you, it becomes a problem because you know your hands are basically delivering themselves to the zombie.

Um so protecting the arms and your extremities is the most important thing.

Uh which I I thought, you know, what if you just added sleeves to whatever outfit?

But I think For the next part of our discussion about materials.

Okay.

We're just going to assume a whole shirt.

Okay.

A whole pair of pants.

Okay.

Um, like a whole shirt of Kevlar.

Yeah.

Cause like, are you really gonna sit in front of a sewing machine and be like, I only need the sleeves.

I don't need this whole coat.

Just give me the sleeves.

I don't think so, no.

But uh but it is important to remember what's the important part, which is the sleeves.

Okay.

Um again, this is just an info dump.

I don't have any idea.

I had no plan going into this.

I'm just like, I'm gonna share some info.

Uh so I I created a table.

This is what Leah saw.

That was like when she was like, look at the we gotta talk about that, what you're making.

Because I I have all these materials and I have a whole bunch of things that I'm scoring them on and a final score situation.

Um, I'm gonna tell you how I scored them, and I'm gonna tell you what the materials are, and Leah, I want you to think about which one of these materials, based on what I'm scoring, is going to be the best, and which one's going to be the worst.

This is a quiz.

Best or worst materials.

Yeah.

This is a quiz.

Most biteable or least biteable.

I'll tell you.

I'll tell you the things that I'm scoring it on.

So we've got durability.

Okay.

We've got comfort.

Wow, you've really got into this.

Okay.

Yeah.

It's important to be comfortable.

It is.

You're you're wearing this in the apartment.

Pandemic time.

It could be hot, could be cold.

I'm never wearing hard clothes again.

Yeah.

We've got weight.

Every pound counts.

Yeah.

Um, temperature.

So like this is how much of your heat it traps.

Okay.

Um, how well it breathes.

Flexibility, how well you can move in it.

You know, like, for example, like if you have a leather coat, sometimes it binds up.

It's not the most flexible material.

Um, but if you're wearing a long-sleeve cotton shirt, it's very flexible.

I feel like flexible and comfortable.

They they both add up, but they don't always mean the same thing.

Because you can be comfortable in a leather coat, but you don't you doesn't mean that you're going to be flexible in a cut in a leather coat.

Uh maintenance.

This is about how easy it is to repair tears or add patches if you need to.

Um, water resistance is the last one.

So uh does it soak up water or does it repel water?

Okay.

Um, so that's what I scored it on.

And how many different fabrics are we talking?

I didn't count them.

Oh god.

Eight.

Okay.

All right.

So eight fabrics in how many categories?

Uh seven.

Okay.

And we're doing a total score for each.

Well, you don't need to know the total score.

I'll tell you.

Okay.

Um, but I just want you to this off the top of your head, I'm gonna I'm gonna give you these materials and I want you to imagine which one would be the worst thing to wear in the zombie apocalypse and which one would be the wet best thing to wear.

Okay, and what's our climate?

Because that's gonna matter here.

I'm just gonna say spring.

Spring wear.

Yeah.

Uh um, I don't know.

70 degrees, like 60 to 70 degrees.

Okay.

Sunshine, but sometimes rain.

Okay.

Um, because that can that's a variable.

There's definitely like we'll talk about that later.

Okay.

There's some things that you would want to wear in the winter, and there's some things you would want to wear in the summer.

It's gonna, it's gonna change.

We're in that like middle ground.

It's not too hot, it's not too cold.

Right.

It's just right.

Um, if you wear something heavy, it's gonna be warm.

If you wear something light, you'll be a little too cool.

Okay.

Okay.

Uh, so first up, cotton slash polyester, maybe a polyester blend, like a t-shirt.

I think we've all worn t-shirts.

That's from a def from a defensive point of view, useless.

I think that's very easy to find out.

Hold your opinions.

Okay.

Oh, okay.

Because I'm I'm going through a list.

Okay.

You find it.

You told me to close my laptop.

You find the best and the worst.

Okay.

Okay.

Okay.

And then I'll go into more detail.

Okay.

So call cotton polyester, silk, neoprene, latex.

Like a gimp suit, right?

No.

Yeah.

Uh, denim, leather, kevlar firefighter coat.

Nice.

I had this was the whole reason for making the list.

Yeah.

Wool.

Nylon.

And nylon like um, like a windbreaker.

Okay.

There's a lot of different types of nylon, and you could really get let's just talk windbreaker nylon.

You could wear a nylon coat that's like a work coat and be really thick.

And you're asking what I think is the best and the worst for a moderate temperature day.

Yeah.

Okay.

Um, from that list, I think the option I would choose is uh I don't know enough about Kevlar in terms of like how heavy it is.

I mean, I know it's lightweight for a canoe, so like maybe it's lightweight.

I don't know if it traps heat or not, but I would think that it wouldn't because they use it for firefighters.

So I'm gonna make an educated guess that Kevlar is the best, but my instinct was to say denim because denim is thicker.

Well, which one do you want to go with?

That's I'm telling you those are my top two.

Well, which one's higher?

I'm gonna say kevlar because there's a reason firefighters use it.

Okay.

It protects them.

It must make it must repel heat to some degree in some way because they're going into insane circumstances.

Um yeah, kevlar with a close second of denim.

And then the worst one, I wish I could see the list.

Cotton, silk, neoprene, latex, denim, leather, kevlar, wool, and nylon.

I like neoprene, but I think it's uh gonna be too warm.

So I'm gonna I'm gonna go with cotton.

I think that's a bad idea.

Okay.

All right.

Um, so the best one all around, based on the things that I scored it on, was denim.

Okay.

So my instincts were right, and I just tried to get too fancy.

Yeah.

3.6 stars is is what I because I ranked everything on a scale of one to five star stars.

Okay.

Uh Denim got 3.6.

Kevlar actually just got a three.

Um the worst.

Was Kevlar second to Denim?

No.

Wow.

Can I guess what second is?

Yeah.

I think it's gonna be something like really shocking, like silk or nylon.

Nylon.

Okay.

And second to nylon is silk.

Yeah, yeah, which is weird because you wouldn't think about these things, but I'll explain.

Um, because I just did.

Look at me.

Really high in other in a lot of areas.

Yeah.

So cotton, um, actually it was a 3.1.

Oh.

Um, durability scored very low.

We know that about cotton.

Comfort, four stars.

Weight, five stars.

It's really lightweight.

Yeah.

Um until it gets wet, which is in your list, right?

Yeah.

Um, temperature, four stars.

Okay.

Because, you know, it's very breathable.

Uh, flexibility, five whole stars.

Maintenance, three.

You know, if you know how to sew, you can fix it.

Pretty easy to patch cotton.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Water resistance, two.

You know, it's it's better than it's better than nothing in the rain, but it's gonna soak up that rain.

I think that was a generous two.

I would have given it a one because when cotton gets wet, it's heavy.

It does.

Have you ever fallen out of a canoe in cotton clothes and then tried to swim to safety?

You have?

Yeah.

They get heavy.

It's true.

Um, I didn't really I don't really think about it, but yeah, you're right.

Uh, silk got a 3.4.

Um, and I think these these things are important to remember when we get on later when we talk about like layering.

Okay.

So durability, one star.

It's not very durable silk.

You don't want to be called crawling over fences with silk.

Uh comfort, five stars.

You ever wear a silk shirt?

It's comfortable.

It's like being caressed by the smoothest thing in the world.

It is.

It's also really good at temperature regulation.

It's great in the cold and it's great in the warm.

Yeah.

Which I don't understand how it does that.

Temperature, five stars.

Also, weight, five stars.

Yeah.

Very lightweight, great temperature.

Flexibility, also five stars.

Maintenance, two stars.

It's uh little, you know, it's it it tears apart and you know, you can stitch it back together, but it's just not the same.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's gonna want to keep tearing.

Um, and water resistance, three stars.

A little bit more water resistant than cotton.

Okay.

Uh, next in the list, neoprene.

We saw a movie where a guy wear it wore a neoprene suit.

Um, I forget what it was called.

Yeah, it was in Spain.

Didn't he have an animal?

Yeah, cat.

He was riding around with a on a dirt bike with a cat wearing a neoprene suit.

Was that a zombie movie or was that just an apocalypse movie?

No, there were zombies.

It was gonna bother me.

Oh, yeah, this was we just so folks know, we went through a whole zombie binge and then just didn't talk about anybody, any of it on the show.

Which we'll get back to these.

We're gonna have to talk about it because it was a good movie.

Yeah.

Um, did I tell you what neoprene got?

No.

Uh 3.1.

Okay.

Um durability, three.

So it's it's strong, but it's not the strongest.

Uh comfort, two.

Not very comfortable.

We have not worn neoprene, so I don't know.

Weight, three.

Temperature, two.

You you build up heat.

Yeah, you're gonna be hot.

I mean, people swim in it in like subarctic temperatures, so uh flexibility, four.

Um, I mean, you're wearing like a like a Batman suit.

Maintenance, three.

So about the same as as cotton.

I don't know.

I don't know why I scored it like that.

I don't know how hard it would be to maintain the Aprene.

Um can't maybe Can you look up each of these fabrics to make your dependent on it?

But it was a long time ago.

Maybe you could put like a rubber patch over it or something.

Yeah.

I don't know.

I feel like you could search it back together.

Water resistance is where it shines, Leah.

Five stars for water resistance.

Uh latex was the lowest.

And you know, I'm I'm just gonna go go through and uh and give it the strengths and weaknesses of some of these ones that aren't so interesting.

So, like latex, where are you gonna find like a latex shirt unless you're at a sex shop?

Yeah, and I always I just assume it's thin and like very biteable.

Yeah.

Um durability, it's actually not so great.

That also makes sense to me.

Yeah, comfort, not so great.

There's a reason people get pregnant with latex.

It's heavy, condoms, they break.

It holds holds in your heat.

It's a kind of it's like a shittier version of neoprene, is really what we're that's less wide.

So we need neoprene condoms, is what you're telling me.

Yeah.

Yeah, for like, you know, it's like your deep sea diving.

That works.

Let's get to denim.

Denim's the really interesting one at 3.6 stars, our winner of the whole thing.

I should have gone with my gut.

Durability, three.

Is that why you were wearing your denim shirt today?

No.

Oh, okay.

Um, no, I just wanted to be Canada's king for the day.

You're always my king.

Uh, so denim is very durable.

It's also very comfortable.

Four stars for comfort.

Um, it's pretty good weight-wise.

It's not very heavy.

Obviously, it's not like wearing a silk shirt, but it's not like wearing neoprene.

Um flexibility, you can be pretty flexible in denim.

I think it like again, there's a way I I hate to be like bringing in all the nuance here, but there's light denim.

Like the shirt you're wearing today's a pretty light denim.

Then there's a denim jacket, and then I'm not flexible in a denim jacket.

I feel like I'd be protected in a denim jacket relatively from a bite, but it would be I don't think it deserves four stars if it's a thick denim jacket.

I'm like, I'm thinking of this, this is just a regular denim jacket, but we're also not talking about like stretchy denim.

This isn't like the the denim pants that are actually sweatpants.

Um, this is probably something that you buy at Walmart.

Okay.

Walmart denim.

Walmart denim.

I love all your caveats.

There's a lot of caveats with this stuff because it all depends on like what it is, where it came from.

This just shows you why we need different cultures and different things for different people in different places because there's so much of it's context dependent.

Yeah.

It's not great for water resistance, about the same as cotton.

Yeah.

The time where I fell into the canoe or fell off fell into the canoe, huh?

Fell out of the canoe was the fall.

And I was wearing a cotton t-shirt and jeans, and my jeans felt like anchors pulling me to the bottom of the water.

Why was I not wearing a life jacket?

Because I'm dumb.

Everyone, put on your life jacket, even if you think you're really good at canoeing, because you could be me and barely make it to shore.

Um, here's one of everyone's favorite, which is leather.

You watch The Walking Dead, everyone's got like they always go for like leather vests.

Like Michonne has like a leather corset half the time.

Yeah.

Um, which is a corset?

I thought it's more like a vest.

It's a vest.

Like sometimes it's a vest.

Some like later seasons, it's it's it's more in the shape of a corset.

I can't picture her wearing a corset.

This is a corset.

I'm looking, I'm opening my laptop just to look up.

I'm gonna put Michonne corset, and hopefully it's not gonna get weird.

Uh it's gonna get weird, Leah.

Keep going while I'm looking this up.

So leather does really good in durability, four stars.

Um, like I said at the beginning, I don't think zombies are biting through leather.

Um, but I guess they could.

If they get a hold of you and they start shaking their head like a dog, they might they might poke a few teeth through your leather jacket.

It's a possibility, um, but unlikely.

Comfort, I give it two stars.

Um, because uh leather jackets can be comfortable, but they are sometimes a bit restricting, a bit difficult in the uh flexibility area.

Yeah.

Um, also not very good at temperature regulation.

You you kind of trap heat inside of leather.

Um, also very heavy.

So two stars for for weight.

Um, if it's if a leather jacket's the only thing that you're carrying that's heavy, that's fine.

Like you'll get away with it.

But if you got a full getup, like leather pants, leather underwear, leather, leather jacket, leather shirt, leather gloves, you know, leather boots, um, it's gonna, it's gonna add up.

I forget what movie it was from my childhood.

I want to say it was like it was like uh George of the Jungle or something, but the bad guys were traipsing through the jungle in full leather gear because they were bad guys.

And they even doing you're a bad guy.

They even made a comment about it where the guys should the one guy is making fun of the other bad guy, and he's like, he's like, you gotta hurry up, you're dragging along back there.

And he's like, I'm in full leather in the jungle.

Um water resistance.

I always thought that water resistance would be better with leather, but you know, I haven't owned a leather jacket in a long time.

But I remember the one that I had when I was in the army, and I remember being out in the Georgia rain and being like, How am I wet?

This is leather, this is skin from an animal.

How's the skin?

How's the water getting through the animal's skin to me and making my skin wet?

Tanned leather.

I wonder if that changes it in some way.

I don't know.

Just talk for a minute how weird it is that you're putting on some.

I mean, it's it's basically uh silence of the land.

Like you're putting on someone else's skin.

It's weird.

It is weird.

Yeah, yeah.

Humans do a lot of weird shit.

Yeah.

Um, maintenance, it gets five stars because if you get a tear in your leather jacket, duct tape.

Just duct tape it up.

It also makes it look cooler.

So uh I get I'll give it some cool points on top of that.

Can I make a comment, but going back to Michonne?

Yeah.

So I don't think Michonne wears a full-on corset.

It's just that she wears very tight vests that have a sort of look like that, but they're all vests, they all have zippers.

However, given your deep and detailed description of the parts of the body that should be covered, Michonne's arms are always fucking bare.

And like, let's be real, she's got some badass arms.

She works out.

I get why they want to show them off.

But also now I'm gonna look at it, I'm never gonna look at it again the same way.

I'm gonna be like, what are you doing?

Yeah.

But also, she is wielding a sword.

So, like, I think the rule like that's a variable.

So she needs her arms maximum flexibility with her arms.

Yeah, but you know what?

Maybe a silk shirt underneath that uh could go a long way.

Yeah.

I mean, fencers and uh and and um sword fighters of like the Renaissance era would wear silk because they they wanted maximum mobility.

That makes sense.

Also, they wanted to look cool as hell.

Here's the thing that uh started the whole conversation inside of my brain, which is the Kevlar firefighter coat.

Um the firefighters told me that you can separate the inner liner from the firefighter coat, and it's like wearing a denim jacket.

Really?

However, I didn't want to do it that way because I'm like, it's gotta have drawbacks.

Um, we're leaving the liner in.

And I haven't I haven't personally been able to inspect one, so I don't I can't verify whether or not that's true.

And I feel like um adding that data without being able to um see proof of it wasn't wasn't helpful in this uh in this situation.

If I'm writing it in a book, um I can't be I can't be guessing about the the inner liner and how comfortable a little Kevlar jacket is.

That's fair.

So durability, five whole stars.

Damn.

Kevlar is tough stuff.

Like it's it's one of the strongest materials, the strongest man-made materials that are ever made.

That makes sense to me because Kevlar canoes are really great for if you're doing like rapid water canoeing, which I'm not, because as foretold, or not foretold, previously told, I've already fallen out of a canoe on flat water.

Yeah.

Although I blame the other person.

I think they were not good at canoeing and they're the one who toppled it.

Just yeah, it was the other person.

It's never me.

Yeah, it's not you.

I blame everybody else.

Comfort, I gave it two stars again, against the direct um words of a firefighter.

I don't believe in my heart of hearts that it's exactly like wearing a denim jacket.

Are you serious?

It's so you're heavy, man.

You're wait, you're non-firefighter explaining to a firefighter who told you it's exactly like wearing a denim jacket.

Bring your jacket next time.

Let me put it on.

We're you put it here first.

We're going back to Living Dead weekend 2026.

Yeah, 12th through the 14th.

Prove prove me wrong.

But I gave it two stars.

Prove me wrong.

Wow, I feel offended on behalf of all firefighters that you took their lived experience and you said, No, I'm gonna go with my prejudice and complete lack of experience with the Kevlar jacket.

And this is why the next three things.

Okay.

Weight.

Okay.

The Kevlar is lightweight, but the Kev but the firefighter coat is very big and heavy with a liner in.

Okay.

Um temperature, it's great at keeping heat out, but it's also going to trap heat in.

So it's not going to breathe like denim or cotton or silk.

Uh, and then flexibility.

It's uh I gave it two stars for flexibility because it it's going to be a lot harder to move in it.

And again, if I'm wrong about this, bring your bring your jacket.

I wanna I want to know.

Bring your jacket, bring a denim jacket.

We're doing we'll do comparisons.

Yeah, is anybody listening to this a firefighter and like just pissed right now?

I'm so curious.

Or you believe this non firefighter, never even been inside a burning building.

The audacity, Dan.

The audacity.

Yeah, but in in the areas of maintenance and and water resistance, it gets really high marks.

Again, maintenance, duct tape.

Water resistance, it's like almost entirely.

Entirely water resistant.

It's a raincoat.

Yeah.

I mean it literally it's again a canoe.

Yeah.

The only thing that scored higher in water resistance is neoprene.

That makes sense.

Yeah.

Um wool got 3.3 stars.

Wool is a very interesting material, and I could talk about wool quite a bit.

Um durability, low.

Like you can slash wool.

It can unravel if you're wearing a sweater.

Um it's not the best, but comfort-wise, four stars.

Weight, pretty average, three stars.

Um, wool can be heavy.

Temperature, five stars.

Wool is very breathable.

It's super breathable.

So even though it holds your temperature in, it can also breathe.

Um interesting.

Wool socks are highly recommended uh to people who are very active and outdoor people, like hiking.

Yeah.

Um, whether it's cold weather or warm weather, because it's either going to keep you warm or it's going to cool you down.

It'll do both because it's going to wick moisture and temperature away and uh and keep the heat in.

Um maintenance, three stars.

All you need is a couple knitting needles to to uh stitch up some some uh frayed sweaters.

Granted, I can't do it, but I'd like to.

I want to learn how to I want to learn how to knit.

Let's knit.

You want to knit?

I'd love to learn how to knit.

Yeah.

Because honestly, I've actually well I have a lot of sewing, hand sewing projects I've got to work on this winter because I'm trying to buy less clothes and fix things.

And I will say that this is totally off topic, but hand sewing something is really soothing to my soul.

So I can imagine knitting would be fun.

Yeah.

Um but also I don't want to use wool.

So water resistance is a complicated topic for wool because it will get wet very easily.

So I gave it two stars.

The thing though is that wool will still insulate you when you're wet.

So unlike cotton or other um man-made uh materials, that when they get wet, you cool down as as it's drying.

Wool wicks away that moisture and and it's capable of keeping your warmth in even when you're soaking wet.

That makes sense because like it helps sheep be warm that it's originally for.

Yeah.

How weird is it that we as humans selectively bred an animal that requires to be shorn now?

Yeah.

It's a very strange thing, strange choices humans have made, but like clearly it's an incredible material.

Last on the list is nylon, 3.5 stars.

This is the number two, number two of uh of everything on the list.

Um nylon.

And by nylon I mean like a windbreaker.

Um yeah.

Uh it's a thin nylon jacket.

Uh durability, two stars.

Um you can rip them pretty easily.

Yeah.

And it's not going to protect you from a whole lot.

But comfort?

Ten.

Or sorry, five.

Ten.

Five.

We're in ten, we're in fives here.

I actually gave it three.

I don't know why I gave it three, but I gave it three.

And I think mostly that's because of like, I don't know.

I have I have memories of the 90s when we all wore nylon.

Weight is where it really shines.

Five stars for weight.

Okay.

Temperature, four stars.

Um yeah, because it blocks the wind, but it's not heavy.

It's not the most breathable, but you're gonna be able to regulate your temperature pretty well with it.

Okay.

Um, flexibility, five stars.

You know, you you wear uh a nylon suit from the 90s with the magenta and uh and sea foam green, uh, you're gonna be you're gonna be so limber.

You're basically gonna become a sports star, is what I believed in the 90s.

So if I wore some starter pants um at in gym class, that I would be better at running because my legs would be covered by windbreaker.

Maintenance, three stars.

Um, you know, again, you could probably just duct tape it up.

So maybe it deserves a higher, higher score.

Again, I made this list a long time ago, and I was probably in the throes of a very stressful work season.

Slash hyperfocus and had no idea that I was going to turn to you and say Tell the world about this.

Back up your answers.

Well, you're the one who chose to call out all firefighters, or rather, this one firefighter.

There were two.

There were two firefighters.

Wasn't it a father-son combo?

Yeah, well, there was a father-son combo, and then there was another firefighter.

Yeah, I wish we knew their names.

I know we knew them in June, but I think we interviewed them.

I just don't think that we talked about firefighter comes.

That's too bad.

Um, water resistance, four stars.

Like it'll keep the rain off you, but it will soak through eventually.

Okay, so and the total is three and a half stars for that.

Um, I have a whole thing about pros and cons, but I feel like we've just talked about that.

Um, let me know if you want to know more pros and cons.

Uh the last thing, I think this is the last thing.

Yeah.

Last thing that we've got is let's talk about scenarios.

Materials by scenario.

Um so let's say it's the summer.

Like these things are gonna change, change up what you're going to find to be acceptable to wear in the apocalypse.

So it's the middle of the summer, it's 81 to 89 degrees.

The high is 89, the low is 81.

You've been sweating all night.

I'm assuming I'm having no ethical quandaries about the worms because we're all using used shit, anyways, at this point.

I mean silkworms, everybody, who it's actually a painful process for the silk to get extracted.

Fun facts.

But in the world of the apocalypse, uh, no more silks being made in the world.

If I had if I found silk, I would consider it a very precious resource and I would absolutely be wearing silk in the summertime.

And the silkworms have um have escaped their silk farms and have they're living the good life now.

They are now becoming a problem in their local ecosystem.

Um yeah, so uh it's the summer and we're you know, we're thinking layers now.

So you got your nylon outer layer, you got your windbreaker.

Um and I disagree.

Your cotton polyester base.

I would wear silk for maximum breathability.

Well, the silk's a good option too, and that's I think that's an acceptable um acceptable choice.

I would do the nylon outer layer with a silk base because if it gets colder, the nylon's gonna block out the uh wind.

And the nylon's so light that you could just throw that in your backpack until you need it.

Yeah.

Um it's not gonna, you're not gonna have very good arm protection here, but we're just talking about living in the summer.

We've got a couple other scenarios after where if if you're expecting trouble, we'll talk about that.

Yeah.

Um, so these two combinations, it's gonna be breathable and lightweight, quick drying.

The nylon offers the wind and water resistance if you need it, with a little tiny bit of extra protection.

Like if you're layering cotton and nylon, that should stop a bite.

Yeah, I mean, I guess it depends on the bite strength and like how long they're yeah, if it's like a fly by night bite, you're probably fine.

But if you're yeah, if they're if they're shaking their head like a dog, yeah, if they're chomping repeatedly, they're gonna get through.

Yeah.

Which is why I think your optional add-on here makes a lot of sense.

Even in the summertime, I'm gonna accept sweaty forearms.

Yeah.

So my my add-on um is forearm bracers made of leather or kevlar for bite protection, where it matters the most.

I I love the idea of uh leather bracers, and you can actually find these very commonly because like archers use leather bracers.

Yeah.

Um, you know, anybody who has been to a wren fair probably has some leather bracers for from their outfit.

This might be a terrible idea.

It's not on your list, but I would consider getting um mesh and just wrapping a large amount of it on you, like just wrapping it repeatedly until it's quite thick, but it's still very breathing.

Like a nylon mesh?

Yeah, like a mesh, like a mesh window.

Um what's the word I'm looking for?

Like a like window screen.

Yeah.

Oh, like a like a metal mesh.

Um, that sounds uncomfortable.

So I was thinking like a nylon mesh y net though.

Like not a mesh that's so like a D I don't know.

There's gotta be like a midweight mesh out there.

I'm making shit up now, as you did with this whole thing.

Yeah.

But that's I might try that.

I might try a mesh.

I wouldn't want to put the window screen around because I feel like that would cut cut me.

But like I do think that you're on to something with like a like a nylon mesh, like something that like some basketball shorts are made out of.

Yeah.

Um, something that they teach you to do if you're in an unexpected knife fight with somebody is if you have like a sweater or a coat, you wrap it around your your your non-attacking arm, your defensive arm, so that when they come to stab at you, you can deflect the the knife with that arm and reduce uh reduce the stabbing potential.

If I'm in an unexpected knife fight, I don't know that I'm gonna have time to grab my jacket.

Grab your jacket, Leah.

Wrap it around my defensive.

Grab your jacket or get stabbed.

Um well, I'm gonna get stabbed while grabbing my jacket.

Yeah.

Um, we're assuming that you already have your jacket, but like this this is something that I'm backing up your idea, Leah.

Thanks.

Of wrapping something around your arm that's not.

Well, I'm not I'm thinking proactive here, not not unexpected knife fight.

Um, I only brought that up because I think that wrapping some some type of cloth, even if it was just cotton, like just wrapping like a t-shirt around your arm is gonna go a long way to stopping uh a zombie from biting.

I was thinking meshy just because it's a little bit more breathable, but if you do enough of it, they're not gonna get through like the holes won't be overlapping exactly.

So you're still gonna have protection, but you're gonna have more breathability.

Yeah.

Um, I hate sweating.

So the leather bracers, if you have a leather jacket and it's the summertime and you're like, fuck this leather jacket.

I hate this thing.

You can cut it up and make leather bracers if uh if you have that needle and thread and you you don't mind putting some work in it.

I was gonna say, you're gonna need a really good needle.

Yeah.

Um, and uh like a leather hole punch probably to make this happen.

And like if ideally, like some some like thin strips of leather to sew it together.

Yeah.

You need that that tool in the Swiss Army knife that nobody knows what it's for.

Is it a hole punch?

The leather all.

Oh.

See, I know all this stuff from my horseback riding days.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm pretty sure we have a leather punch somewhere in the garage.

I have one in my multi-tool.

Wow, we have too many now.

Yeah, we have too many.

Yeah.

Um tell me about winter.

Winter time, best choice is a woo a wool mid layer and then leather or neoprene.

I'd opt for leather um because you look cool.

I'd opt for neoprene because it's not wearing someone else's skin, and I think that's weird.

Yeah.

But also, I'm thinking in the apocalypse, we're we're all wearing somebody else's skin in the apocalypse.

True.

I'm just thinking if I have a choice.

Yeah.

I wouldn't want to do neoprene because it just really doesn't breathe well.

I have a I actually have a neoprene jacket.

Like a leather breathes better than neoprene?

Yeah.

Neoprene really traps.

You might have said that earlier, but I my the info dump is saturating my brain.

Um yeah, I have a neoprene jacket.

It's like a very thin neoprene, too.

It's not like it's not like a diving suit.

It's like very thin.

And I like it, but like it needs to be like the coldest winter day.

Otherwise, I'm taking that thing off because I'm like, I am sweltering in the sink.

Mostly the sleeves.

I was gonna say, this is not gonna be warm enough for me.

Like, if we're talking Vermont winters, I'm pretty sure that my winter jacket, which is extremely fluffy and very insulated, would be hard to bite through.

That's true.

But I would probably, um, knowing everything that you've just shared, I might pull out the duct tape for that one to make it a little bit more of a thicker, um, less biteable material.

Because I'm pretty sure the outer part is nylon, so that's not that great.

So uh wool insulates when wet.

It's it's a really great thing to be wearing in the wintertime if you have if you have if you're gonna be out in the elements.

And the uh leather offers a lot of bite protection.

Um, whereas neoprene adds a lot of weatherproofing.

So like if if you're expecting to be really wet in the wintertime, like if if you're in an area that instead of instead of snowfall, you get like really wet snow or rain, then maybe neoprene is a better option for you.

Um optional add-on, kevlar patches at high-risk bite zones, forearms and thighs.

I feel like these aren't optional add-ons based on the long discussion we had about odds of places where you're gonna get bit.

I feel like what I'm hearing, or the conclusion I'm coming from this episode coming to is if you're out and about in the zombie apocalypse, just fucking wear uh forearm guards, just do it.

Yeah, just wear them.

Make it it's a part of your outfit now.

It's it's just it that's just how you live now.

Yeah.

Yeah, I agree.

I agree.

But these are some options to weigh.

Like, you know, what what do you want?

What do you want on your sleeves?

You want Kevlar sleeves?

You want leather sleeves?

Actually, I'd go for Kevlar.

Sew some Kevlar patches into your shirt.

I wonder how easy it is to find Kevlar.

Well, if you find a fireman's jacket.

True.

Yeah.

Go to a fire station, is what you're saying.

Yeah.

But also, I feel like in the winter that that fireman's coat might be the best thing because it'll be really warm.

That's true.

And wear a wool sweater underneath.

It seems counterintuitive to me that intuitive to me that a firefighter's jacket would be really warm because I feel like it should be repelling heat.

But I guess if it's repelling heat, it's maintaining heat on the inside.

But also think of where firefighters have to perform their jobs.

They have to be in all elements, including bitter cold while operating fire hoses.

Yeah.

You know, they have to they have to be spraying water even if it's 20 degrees below zero.

Um, but they also have to be out in the hot sun uh when there's an accident on the road or there's a fire.

Um, so they got to do it all.

So here's some situational specific things.

And this is like regardless of time of year.

So like you'd have to modify based on whether it's winter or summer, or it's raining, or it's snowing, or you're in the goddamn mud, or your house is on fire.

You know, you're like to adjust for these things, but like scavenging.

So like you need mobility and stealth.

Um, abrasion resistance matters some because you might be crawling over fences or climbing through broken windows.

Um, but and you're gonna need that more than like the full bite protection.

Like you might run into a zombie, you likely will, and it you might need to avoid getting bitten, but it's more about being quiet and being lightweight and being able to get in and out of places quickly and quietly.

So uh denim and a nylon outer layer and gloves.

That makes sense.

Gloves are really important for scavenging.

Yeah, I think gloves are important in all of these cases.

Yeah, you know what else is important?

A tool belt.

Yeah.

You want to want to talk about tool belts?

Another time.

Tool belts of the apocalypse.

Yeah, everybody should have a tool belt.

Um, additional add-on, lightweight keflar sleeves or arm guards.

Again, the the kev the Keflar sleeves.

Um, but let's say you expect to be in combat.

Like maybe your your your place is surrounded.

You need to fight your way out.

Or I'm going to Negan's house.

Going to Neegan's house.

In season what?

What season are we in?

Season seven.

No, this is like the preemptive attack that Rick did.

I'm going there.

I know I'm about to murder some people.

Oh they might wake up.

Yeah, season seven.

Okay.

Yeah.

This is what I'm going to wear.

Yeah.

Tell us.

Um, Kevlar jacket, the firefighter jacket.

Uh, and neoprene or denim.

I feel like the denim might be a bit overkill because the kevalar is fine.

Yeah.

I'm gonna I'm gonna change that up and I'm gonna say, I'm gonna say underneath your Kevlar jacket, wear silk.

Ooh.

Get that extra mobility, get that good feeling on your skin.

Yeah.

Yeah, you got all the bite protection of the Kevlar jacket.

You got the water resistance of the Kevlar jacket.

I don't know why I put neoprene here or denim.

Those are terrible choices.

Don't stack like that.

You're gonna be hotter than hell.

Past Dan was wrong.

But you know, you add a little bit of that mobility with the with the silk.

You're gonna be sliding around inside of that coat.

That coat that wants to resist your movements.

You're gonna you're gonna add some extra layer of some movement in there.

And also it's it's gonna help help direct that that heat out of your sleeves, out of the neck hole.

You're gonna be doing good with uh with a little bit of silk and a little bit of Kevlar.

Um, and you know, you're gonna wanna you're gonna wanna go with that Kevlar because you need that high, high bite protection.

Um, you're gonna be dealing with close encounters, um, add-ons, tactical gloves, shin guards, helmet.

Put on a motorcycle helmet.

They won't get your face through a motorcycle helmet.

In fact, I feel like you'd be so well protected that you might you might have to deal with the horrifying reality of getting mobbed by a horde and just having them dogpile on top of you while they try to bite through your Kevlar and your motorcycle helmet and being like, I'm stuck here now at the bottom of this rotting flesh pile that wants to eat me.

Wow, that's disgusting.

Yeah.

Um, so there you go.

There was my there's my info dump.

Uh this is where you insert a sound effect that sounds like a dump.

Quack.

Plop.

I just did a quack.

A plop ellipse.

I like I like um uh I like sound effects that don't match.

Uh but yeah, if you're ever wondering why this book is taking so long, it's because I'm making fucking tables about Kevlar jackets.

This is what happens.

Uh what also happens is Dan gets on what is that 3D animation thing you use?

Oh, yeah.

I start doing some 3D, 3D arts.

Yeah, you'd be like, oh, I need to, I really need to know exactly what this character looks like.

So I have to build them from scratch in a 3D animation thing that takes me three days to finish.

Yeah, it does sometimes.

A D H D.

Yeah, but I like it.

It's fun.

I like it.

No, I think it doesn't matter.

You should do it's fun.

I just think it's like this is why these things take time.

Yeah, it's not a linear process.

And uh for those of you who are like, why isn't out yet?

It will be.

It will be when it's ready.

Yeah, and I'm saying that mostly to myself because I'm over here like, Dan, I want to know what happens.

Yeah, I know enough it's to be really good.

It's the off season.

I got I got nothing but time to write.

Yeah.

Well, I just need to do it.

You need to make it a priority.

Yeah, yeah.

I need to have things not be so urgent all the time.

It feels like everything's been urgent, like, do it now.

I mean, it's it's it's it kind of this kind of happens at the beginning, the off season is that there's just so many things to do right away.

Better like catch up from being unable to do anything for so many months for eight months of the year.

I'm curious.

This is so not zombie related, but maybe it is.

You all have any organizational tips for us?

What does one do when they become feral?

How do we create rigor and discipline back in our lives as two people with severe ADHD?

Um it's rough out here.

We're not getting out of bed till 9 a.m.

Sometimes later.

That's pretty I was gonna say that's that's very generous of you, yeah.

It's been great then.

It has been wonderful.

Um, and uh, you know, hopefully I'll get a job soon and I can look back at this time fondly.

Well, everybody, there you have it.

That's our zombie bite sleeve episode.

Poopalypse is gonna come one of these days.

Poop optical pops.

Uh, I think probably our next episode is going to be about Queens of the Dead.

Yeah.

Or maybe the AI apocalypse.

We'll see.

Yeah.

Yeah, we got a couple of options.

Um, we are hoping to have one more author interview.

We're just waiting to confirm that before we release it out into the world.

But that could be coming.

And then we're gonna take a couple of weeks of a break since it's the holiday season and do some other fun things.

But in January and beyond, we've already got a full slate of authors all the way through March right now.

So it's gonna be a really great first quarter of 2026.

Yeah, it's gonna be great.

Thanks everybody for listening to us, the Zombie Book Club.

Uh, if you want to support us, you can leave a rating or a review.

Five stars, please.

Unlike many of these things that I ranked our materials as.

And also, I feel like we've succeeded because one person on Apple gave us a one star, but that doesn't mean I want more.

Yeah, let's not do that again.

Um if uh if you want, you can send us a voicemail up to three minutes.

Maybe you get a book to pitch to us.

You could send us an elevator pitch.

We have one more book pitch from Zelinda Morrison for book two of Harsh Light.

We'll we'll be doing that before the end of the year.

Uh, but we would love some more.

Yeah, and you can send that to us at 614-699-00006.

Um, three zeros.

I don't know how many I said.

Uh, or you could sign up for our newsletter, which I'm going to be shifting over to Substack.

So you can still sign up, uh, but don't be surprised if you get like an email that's like, hey, thanks for following us on Substack.

And then you're like, I didn't do that.

Somebody, somebody's hacking my account.

Hackers.

Hackers.

Um, it's just me moving over a newsletter.

Uh, I'll update all those things later when I get around to it.

Uh, like I said, there's a lot of things to do.

Uh, you can also follow us on Instagram at zombiebook club podcast or join the join the brain munchers collective discord.

That's Ollie's Discord, and we're there.

Yeah, Ollie, who's doing Maze, stake and not stirred Kickstarter, go check it out.

Go throw five bucks their way.

At least you could probably do more.

But you know, five is a good start.

It gets you a it gets you the PDF when it's done.

And also, if you go to the Discord and you go to the not zombie art channel, you will see Dan incognito hiding behind some of my art at my most recent art fair.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And so on second thought, it should have been in the art.

And it is really hilarious because Brian of Zompocalypse did like a zoom in.

It's like, why is Dan hiding in the back of this with their sunglasses on and their hoodie, their black hoodie over there?

It's really bright in there.

Yeah, it's a it's a great moment.

I did not want to be perceived.

Also, we're talking about um whether or not you would stay in the winter in a zombie apocalypse or you would try and move south.

So, you know, some good chats happening in there.

Yeah, maybe we should talk about that.

But uh, all the links are in the description.

You can find them.

Um, even if you're Ollie and refuse to look at the description.

Yeah.

Uh the end is nigh.

Baby, bye bye, bye.

Bye bye bye.

Don't die.

We love y'all.

Bye bye.

Bye.