Caroline Lagerfelt: Okay.

I sort of had a bit of a genre for quite a while around that age where I played rich old bitches and a lot of rich women.

Leif: Hey, Upper Eastsiders and all.

You scandal loving listeners out there.

You just tuned it to the non-judging breakfast pod where the coffee is strong, the waffles are fresh, and the gossip is hotter than ever.

My name is Leif and I'm your seasoned gossip girl veteran.

And I'm Steve, the newbie, the greenhorn, the, I don't know, Leif.

What are we calling me today?

I think they would label you as a project, you know, the type of girl that has the potential to be a blairite.

Steve: Well, go ahead and dress me up in an Eleanor Waldorf original and let's get started.

Sounds good.

So here's the deal folks.

Leif has been watching Gossip Girl since the beginning, and I'm diving in for the first time.

And together we're your dynamic duo, bringing you all the drama, romance, and sometimes questionable fashion choices.

Of this iconic 2007 series,

Leif: bring your magnifying glasses because each week we'll be dissecting every juicy detail of the show, one episode at a time.

We'll connect the dots, uncover those sneaky little Easter eggs, and of course, stir up some piping hot behind the scenes tee.

And expect some iconic moments from Phantom too, because what's a deep dive without a little drama.

Steve: Since we are all about inclusivity here at the Non-Judging Breakfast Pod, there is always a seat for you at the non-judging breakfast table.

So go ahead and grab your mimosa or your cup of coffee or go ahead and roll up some of Chuck's special medicine.

And let's get started.

Steve, we are here for a special episode today.

Yes, I am very excited and super bummed that I had to miss it.

Yes.

Leif: So right off the top, head in at the non judging breakfast table.

Norman Buckley.

The Norman Buckley.

Yes.

Director of the OC Gossip Girl.

Pretty Little Liars and most recently Sweet Magnolias.

And he's done over 140 episodes of television.

Steve: Yes.

Leif: Yes.

We also had Caroline Lagerfelt, who plays Cece.

Yeah.

Who just happened to

Steve: be having dinner with Norman Buckley.

Leif: Yes.

And that's kind of why you had to miss it because, so originally I reached out in like early July.

He said he was, he's interested in doing the podcast, but he was finishing up filming season five of Sweet Magnolias.

Yeah.

And you know, so I told him, okay, I'll reach out, you know, the beginning of September.

So I did, and he's like, well, I can do Monday.

And I asked, then I asked you and you're like, oh, I'm gonna be away.

Then, then like kind of in between that he was like, oh, I'm also having dinner with Caroline.

Ara felt that, but, or that night and I could bring her along.

I was like, sorry, Steve.

Yeah.

Steve: And, and, and as you know, I immediately was like, absolutely do this.

Uh, and, and I, I'm bummed that I wasn't able to call in Robin and I were camping.

So I, but I did get to listen to most of it.

I have not heard this entire interview because apparently there is a, a spoiler in it that I, that you had said.

Yeah.

It was like 30 seconds cut out in the middle.

Yeah.

So I, I didn't even notice when, when I did my watch through.

And yeah, it was a lot of fun to see you talk to them, get to ask them some cool questions and hear their takes on the people of Gossip Girl.

Leif: And, uh, so.

In addition to playing cc, Caroline has also, you know, done a million things on television and movies, a lot of genre stuff like X-Files, Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

Yeah.

Um, she was also in the movie of Minority Report, but then she's also done a lot of work on and off Broadway.

Steve: Yes.

Yeah.

Which is also impressive in its own right.

Those double threat actors that can do Broadway, that can do live theater and do film.

Two different beasts.

Yeah.

So it's impressive to be able to make that switch.

Leif: And most recently she is a, uh, I guess recurring.

I, I don't know if she, I know if she's considered main cast, but she's on, uh, sweet Magnolias.

She's, yes.

Uh, Joanna Garcia's mother.

Yes.

Yeah.

Also is on Ca Grill.

Yeah.

Steve: Who, who is Joanna Garcia on?

She played Brie Buckley.

Leif: Oh, right, okay.

Yes.

And is now married to Nick Swisher.

Yeah.

But, so this, the start of the interview is a little bit awkward, so as people know, who know me, know I'm a perpetually early person.

So we had the meeting scheduled for six 30.

I showed up at 6 22 and Norma was already there, so I was a little embarrassed by that.

And then he's like, okay, so.

Caroline's gonna be here in about three minutes.

I was like, so at first I was like, okay, let's, let's just hold off and I'm trying to chitchat and like, you know, I was just stall for time.

And then he starts going into stuff, like he starts telling stories.

I was like, uhoh better Start recording.

Yes.

And then about like eight minutes in, Caroline jumps in and, but, and, but her, she's on an iPhone and she's.

She dropped it a couple times and so it was cutting out and so it was, it was a little bit of a mess to sync up, but I, I think at the end I got it.

I got it working pretty well.

So here it is coming at you right now.

Welcome to the

Norman Buckley: show.

Thank you.

Thanks for having me.

Leif: So you have done quite a bit of, uh, TV directing and you started off with the oc, I believe that was your first job.

Yes.

Norman Buckley: Well, it's first job I directed on directing, first

Leif: directing job.

Yes.

Yeah.

Norman Buckley: I was an editor for many years before I started directing.

And when I was asked to do the oc I said that I would be happy to do it if I could, uh, direct one of the episodes.

And, uh, Josh and Stephanie were very, um, supportive of that, um, idea.

And, um, I owe my directing career to them.

Leif: Yeah.

Norman Buckley: Which has then been very successful.

So I'm grateful to them and I always.

Credit them with, um, supporting me in that, uh, in that vision.

Leif: Yeah.

So you have worked with Fake Empire quite a bit.

Did, um, do you find that it's different working with them compared to other showrunners because you have more of a relationship?

Do they give you more creative freedom?

Norman Buckley: I've had a great relationship with many different showrunners.

I, I do believe that, uh, my relationship with Josh and Stephanie was very special.

Because, um, it was right at the beginning of Josh's career and, um, I, uh, did the pi, I edited the pilot of the OC with them, and, uh, we grew to be very close.

Stephanie.

Um, I still, uh, see every time I go to LA and I, I haven't seen Josh in a while, but.

I, I consider him to be a close friend and, um, they, they, they were extremely supportive to me during a period of time in my life when I was really trying to make a huge career leap and I was able to make it because of them.

And I started on the OC and then I went to their two other shows, Chuck and Gossip Girl.

And so I very quickly got.

A number of directing credits and then moved in to, um, various other branches of the teen genre.

Yeah.

And then, uh, from there started moving into procedurals.

And, you know, I've had a very successful career at this point.

I've directed over 140 episodes of television.

And, uh, that all stems back to 20 years ago, like working on the oc.

So yeah, I, yes, I owe them a lot and I am very, I, I consider both of them very close friends, but in terms of, do I have a a, a shorthand with them?

Yes.

I have a shorthand with them based on.

The fact that I was an editor for them first and mm-hmm.

Really learned what they liked and learned, uh, how to, um, uh, direct the shows in such a way that I knew they'd be happy with it.

So, I, I think I did six, I directed six episodes of the OC and probably.

I don't know, I probably edited 30 some odd over the, over the course of the series.

And then I directed 12 episodes of Gossip Girl, I think.

Mm-hmm.

And I think that's right.

Leif: Double checking.

Yes.

12 episodes.

Norman Buckley: Yeah.

So did a number of episodes of Chuck.

I did, did uh, episodes of the Carry Diaries.

I did episodes of, of Dynasty and Hard of Dixie.

Mm-hmm.

Norman Buckley: Uh, so yeah, I've worked with them quite a bit over the years.

Leif: Well, taking a step back, what got you into film originally?

Norman Buckley: Well, I was always fascinated with film as a, as a child, I always was interested in film and, um.

When I was, uh, in college, I was majoring in history at the University of Texas at Arlington, and I was very lacking in a certain focus and direction.

And my mother said, well, if you could do anything you wanted to do, what would you do?

And I said, well, I'd go to film school.

I, I'd work in film.

And she said, well, you should go to film school then.

And so she was really my, uh.

Great encourager and my sister's an actress.

My sister, uh, has been an actress from the time I was in junior high school.

And so she, um.

When I got out of film school, she was working on a film that was shot near my hometown in Texas and, uh, heard that the editor was looking for an assistant.

So she told him that I just gotten outta film school and I could do the job.

And that guy took me to New York with him and my career grew out of that.

So I'm very grateful to my sister.

I'm very grateful to my mother who just recently passed that.

Yeah, I saw that's hard for

Leif: your

Norman Buckley: loss.

Yeah, it's tough, but you know, it's, she had a good long life.

There's, there wasn't much left on the table in terms of she did experience it.

She was very vital and alive and with it right up until the very end.

I know I got my mom a lot longer than most people get their moms, so I'm, I'm very grateful and yes.

Yeah,

Leif: the

Norman Buckley: best

Leif: we could all

Norman Buckley: hope for.

Yeah, there, there's, I have nothing but gratitude for her.

It was a wonderful, wonderful lady, but I would say that she was one of the things that really inspired me and I, I worked in, uh.

Editorial on various feature films.

Uh, I was, um, an editor, um, on many feature films.

Uh, and then about the year 2000, I started editing pilots and television and I directed, and I didn't direct, I edited.

I edited, I mean, lemme take that back.

I edited many pilots for Warner Brothers and so I had a lot of, uh, standing with the, uh, powers of the bee at Warner Brothers.

And when I met Stephanie Savage, I met her on a show called Fast Lane and I expressed to her that I was really interested in directing and she said she would try to help make that happen.

And she was the one that introduced me to Josh Schwartz.

And um, yeah, the rest is history as they say.

And there Carolyn.

Hey.

Welcome.

Welcome.

I'm on.

How you doing?

I'm the iPhone,

Caroline Lagerfelt: so I'm holding it sort of at arms length.

I'm not quite sure how to do this.

My computer's not working.

Leif: That's fine.

I was just, thank you so much for joining us.

Caroline Lagerfelt: Alright.

So here we are.

I'm happy to see you guys.

Norman Buckley: Yes, happy to see you.

Nope there.

Then we lost you.

Oh, there she is.

I'm

Caroline Lagerfelt: not gonna touch it.

Leif: Okay.

Alright.

Welcome to the show.

Thank you.

You, this is the Non-Judging Breakfast Pod.

Uh, we are recapping Gossip Girl.

We are currently started season four and of course you played ce.

That's right.

Welcome to the show.

Thank you.

And so we were just talking about Norman's original story.

Uh, I don't know if you has anything else you want us to add on that.

Norman Buckley: Well, I, I think I, I, I covered it pretty much.

I do, I do wanna say like Carolyn and I never worked together on Gossip Pearl, never.

We weren't, we never were in this, I, I didn't direct any of the episodes that she was in, but we became friends through Kelly Rutherford.

Leif: Okay.

Norman Buckley: When we started becoming, uh, dinner Companions and then the show that I'm currently on now.

So we magnolias, we were looking for an actress to play the part of Paula, and I said, I know this actress that was on Girl, and I think she'd be really right for it.

And yeah.

So now we've done, um, uh, I just finished my 21st episode of, uh, directing SWE Magnolias.

And, uh, so we've worked for six years together on SW Magnolias.

So we share this history on Gossip Girl, we, we never worked together on gossip.

Caroline Lagerfelt: We never did.

I mean, you were around as a producer, were you not?

Norman Buckley: No, no, I wasn't a producer on Gossip Girl, but I did a lot of episodes, so I was there a lot.

Just, which, just, uh, we just never landed on the same episodes.

Caroline Lagerfelt: I know.

And, and then there was that time, uh, maybe six or seven years ago when you were in Oregon or Washington State doing PLN

Norman Buckley: Portland.

Portland.

I was doing the, uh, pretty little liar spinoff in Portland and, uh.

Kelly Rutherford was one of the stars of that.

And uh, Carolyn came to visit Kelly and we got to be friends and I took the

Caroline Lagerfelt: train up there from LA so.

Norman Buckley: Wow.

Caroline Lagerfelt: Yeah, that was an epic journey.

It was like 36 hours and, um, but it was wonderful.

Trains

Leif: could be fun though.

Caroline Lagerfelt: Three of us went out and had dinner together, and actually I'm going to be seeing Kelly when we wrap here on Saturday.

I'm going to New York and she's gonna be there, so I'm gonna see her.

Leif: Oh, wow.

Caroline Lagerfelt: I'm really excited.

Leif: So, yeah, when I was doing prep for this, I was kind of shocked to see that you were only in 10 episodes of Gossip Girl, you had such a big presence on the show.

Caroline Lagerfelt: It's sort of surprising to me 'cause I was actually in very few episodes.

Leif: Yeah.

Caroline Lagerfelt: Over How many did you say?

Was it seven altogether?

Leif: 10.

10.

10.

Oh, I

Caroline Lagerfelt: was in 10.

Okay.

That, that's even more than I thought.

But,

Leif: but I'll out of 121.

Caroline Lagerfelt: Well, that's true.

That's not that many.

Leif: Um,

Caroline Lagerfelt: I know, and it's extraordinary because to this day I, I think Gossip Girl is just gonna live on forever.

It's become kind of a cult show.

And I think because, so when we did it, what, 15, 18 years ago, a lot of the little girls, the young ones, the eight, nine year olds weren't allowed to watch it, of course, 'cause it was too racy.

And now they've rediscovered it through all these different platforms that it's been showing on.

So I'm always surprised I had somebody come up to me.

On a subway station, Stockholm in May.

Some young girl, just so excited and she said, you're, you look just like my favorite actress on Gossip Girl.

And she

Caroline Lagerfelt: pulled up a picture of me and I was like, it's me.

I'm her.

So that was, it's really nice though that I, I'm just so glad that it keeps living and living and living.

Yeah.

You know, I think it's wonderful.

Norman Buckley: It was a really happy time in my life too.

I.

I look back on that period of time with a lot of affection.

I think people have asked me, you know, what's your favorite show?

And I said, well, you know, I don't have a favorite show.

I'm, I'm my favorite is whatever I'm working on.

But when I really think back on my life, that period, those years that I worked on Gaza Girl, were extraordinarily happy because I was.

Um, in New York for several months.

Every year I got to be very close with some of the cast, and I just found it to be a joy.

There was never an episode that I felt like, oh boy, this is a drudge.

It was a really joyful experience for me.

I, I have nothing bad to say about that period of time.

At all, you know, just, you know, I hear these stories about Gossip Girl, how the, there were problems on the set or this or that, and I'm like, no, that's, that's just not true.

It's just, you know, there's, there's absolutely no, no truth to any of that.

It was just a delightful experience and everyone was delightful and I had a great time.

Caroline Lagerfelt: Good.

Yeah, I did too.

I remember when they, um, ca my agent called me.

I was, I think I was in LA at the time.

In fact, I know I was.

And he said, look, the producers want to meet with you for this one part.

And I, and I said, well, they're not gonna fly me in.

He goes, no, you're gonna have to fly in yourself.

And I said, oh, you know, spend that money to fly in.

And you know, how many other people are they looking?

And this is why I love Mike Ken.

I've been with him for like 30 years.

He was like, if you fly in, you'll get it.

Which doesn't always happen.

But I flew in and I booked it, and it, it meant so much to me.

It was so exciting.

I, I made such good friends with the cast, even though I was sort of, as you said, you know, in 10 episodes it just popped in and out.

Mm-hmm.

I love the designer, the clothes, I mean, there was a whole feeling about it that was just completely new and different.

And also, I think it was, um, you know, the first time that everything was online, I remember Kelly and I doing a live, what the hell was it called back in the day?

Twitter something.

Twitter group or something.

So we were watching it with the fans

Leif: Live Tweeting

Caroline Lagerfelt: Live.

Thank you.

Yeah.

We were, Kelly and I were sitting together and we'd live tweet and they'd ask us about our clothes or about this, that, or the other, and we'd be doing this little live tweets and it was very new and very exciting at that time.

From TikTok, Instagram streaming, all the things.

The young kids on this show, do you know?

And

Leif: this actually leads me into my, one of my questions.

So the family resemblance is on the show.

The ca with the casting was really great.

And like, especially with you Kelly and Blake, it's like, it looked like you could be family.

Caroline Lagerfelt: There's a classic picture of us that was taken.

Yeah.

And this was before Instagram and everything.

I still, I have it.

I might repost it.

It's a classic picture of the three of us.

I think just somebody took it on one of their cameras, and you're absolutely right.

It was amazing.

Of course, I'm thrilled that people thought I would collect Blake Kelly.

I'm not gonna

Caroline Lagerfelt: deny that Great family was.

I think they upped it a little bit, bettered it, but they, yeah, it was a, it was amazing.

It was a very believable family.

Leif: So the, the question was, is did they Cub reach out to you or was it an open casting?

Caroline Lagerfelt: No, they, I think they.

I don't know.

I think maybe my agent had submitted me for it.

Okay.

I sort of had a bit of a genre for quite a while around that age where I played rich old bitches and a lot of rich women and I, I think he might have submitted me and then they called me in.

But the, when I flew in, it was sort of, yeah, they really wanted to see me for it.

So I was absolutely overjoyed when I booked it.

And not a cliche ritual lady.

This was a fun one to play.

Leif: Yes.

She had a presence.

Yes

Caroline Lagerfelt: ma'am.

Sir,

Leif: this question's for ez.

So you made your debut with the, uh, 1 0 6, the Handmaid's Tale, which Newsweek did rank as one of the best episodes of 2007 of all television.

And was that your favorite episode or did you have a, a different one that,

Norman Buckley: well, it definitely is one of my favorite episodes.

It was the first one I did, which was, um, show was just breaking at that time.

It was just coming on the air, like six episodes in the show was just starting to air, and so there was an enormous excitement around it, and it was a beautiful episode to direct.

I had this big masquerade ball and I had all these ideas for it that they really embraced, and I had a great time on that.

It was written by Jessica Queller, who also wrote, uh, another episode that I did on the series, which I would say is my favorite, which was, uh, I think it was episode two 18, I think.

I think it was.

It was, um,

Leif: was it the one to play with, uh, the Age of Innocence?

Norman Buckley: Yes.

Leif: Yes.

That is a great episode.

Norman Buckley: Yes.

That, that I think is my favorite, uh, for many reasons.

But, uh, my two favorite episodes I know were written by Jessica Queller and yeah, those were the two, they just, her sensibility and mine jived very, very much.

And I liked it was the Age of dissonance is what it was

Leif: called.

The age of, yeah.

Age of dissonance.

Yes.

Age of

Norman Buckley: dissonance.

And, um, the, um, the play of the Age of Innocence mm-hmm.

That they were performing in that, in that episode was a lot of fun.

What?

And, um, one of my favorite stories about it is we were running very far behind the scene was in the play was this carriage ride.

With Penn and Leighton, and, um, then they were supposed to come off stage after being in this, uh, scene and have an argument.

Mm-hmm.

Norman Buckley: And we were running so far behind that.

I said to Stephanie, I said, what if.

They argued while they were on stage.

What if while they're in the scene, they are whispering back and forth to each other and the argument happens as they're performing.

And she, uh, embraced that idea and said, yeah, can you go over with the actors?

And so I went to, um, both Penn and Leighton, I said, okay, let's move this line here and put this line, uh, here.

And so it was, it, it was kind of a very spontaneous.

Not improv, but almost like improv

in the

Norman Buckley: sense of trying to construct this scene.

And it, it ended up being a much better scene than it would've been had they, it's a great scene.

Yes, it's very,

Leif: very memorable scene.

Norman Buckley: But also we got us back on schedule, which on a TV show, very important set.

Yes, it's very important that you stay on schedule.

And so, um, that episode just has a lot of, I feel a lot of nostalgia for it.

I feel a lot of happy memories.

It just, it was a lot of fun.

It was a lot of

Leif: fun.

That scene.

And also when they kind of go off script in the play is that scene is really good to

Norman Buckley: where, where the end of the act where they all like, uh, yeah.

Get mad at each other.

Yes, it was, it was a lot of fun.

There was, there were so many things in that, that I enjoyed and, and, um, I felt like the, um, the editor on that episode had been one of my assistants on the oc He edited that episode and I thought he did a beautiful job of editing it.

So it had a, it had a whole feel about it that was, um, just very, very, um, uh, unique.

And I, you know, I have a lot of happy memories about it.

Great.

That would probably be my favorite.

Yeah.

Leif: Kyle, do you have a favorite episode?

Caroline Lagerfelt: Well, I, I mostly sort of think in terms of.

When I was with a lot of the cast, 'cause very often my scenes were sort of quite small.

They were with Kelly and with Blake and you know, I would miss sometimes seeing the whole cast.

I remember when we shot the white party out of this absolutely stunning mansion out in Long Island and I'm still friends with the owners of that beautiful house.

Oh

Leif: nice.

Caroline Lagerfelt: And that was amazing.

I mean we were, it was glorious summer, this beautiful house and gardens.

All of us dressed in white.

And it was truly, to me, that that's always ingrained in my memory, is one of the happiest shows that I ever shot.

Anyway, it was absolutely beautiful.

Leif: I believe that was, uh, the season two premiere,

Caroline Lagerfelt: correct?

That's exactly what it was, yes.

Leif: Mm-hmm.

Caroline Lagerfelt: And, um, I was, um, the only show I was wee bit disappointed in was my death scene.

Leif: Yeah.

That, that was a little, uh, weird, awkward, that scene.

It, it

Caroline Lagerfelt: was like, you know, they, they, they were very nice.

They told me they were gonna kill me off, which is always nice to know ahead of time, you know?

Mm-hmm.

And, um, but I thought it was sort of a blah scene and I, I, I, I wrote to them 'cause I, I had, I wanted to sort of be asking for Martini as I was dying.

I just thought that would've like, you know, kept the

Caroline Lagerfelt: spirit of Cece alive.

Yeah.

You know, and it's bring me martini and Nope, they, they kiboshed it and it was all rather, I, I just, it just sort of felt like a rushed episode, but apart from that it was great.

I mean, you know, death scene never hurts.

Norman Buckley: Uh, I wanna go back for a moment to my favorite episode, um, because, uh, one of the guests on that episode was also the, the, the theater critic Charles Isherwood.

Okay.

Yes.

Was writing a real caveat at the time, and it, he was, um, it was so funny because he, he had only a few lines, but he could not remember them, and he just.

Completely went up, completely forgot everything he was supposed to say.

Uh, he wrote a story about it later, uh, in the New York Times.

And let me see if I can find this.

Oh, I'd love

Caroline Lagerfelt: to read that.

You have to send it to me.

Norman Buckley: Oh, I will, I'll send it to you and I'll send it to you too, Levi.

I, I, um.

I just, um, I, I loved it because he said, it's not that I couldn't infuse the line with enough emotive substance to please a slosky, no, I'm afraid the words I had been relentlessly dri drilling for the past 24 hours to the cat, to the refrigerator, to empty elevators into the brisk air.

Madison Square Park wouldn't come at all.

The next few minutes have been erased from my memory.

Presumably by an instinctive reaction akin to that, which makes victims of trauma unable to recall the event itself.

But I would not be surprised.

Told that instead of the dialogue from the script, I began spouting assorted lyrics from West Side Story Vesti Pit of Seventh Grade book report directions from the back of a shampoo bottle, or a recipe for ginger snaps.

I'm pretty confident that at no point that the two dozen words of that fatal sentence emerge in the proper order.

Like most of life site ordeals, junior high, oral surgery recessions, the occasional American presidency.

My stint in the television spotlight eventually came to an end.

I was even given a friendly sendoff in the form of warm applause by the casting crew, perhaps because they were relieved to get back to work with professionals.

It was, it was so.

Funny because he could not remember anything and he got so nervous and started to sweat and Blake was so sweet.

She took his hand and just held his hand and I just basically fed the lines to him.

I said, okay, now say this line.

Now say this line.

Now say this line.

It was so funny.

I'll send you both the, uh, oh, I'd love your feed I that he wrote, because it, it really was delightful.

But that's another reason that episode really sticks in my mind because that was such a funny event.

Leif: Yeah, there's a lot of jokes within the fandom about like, even if you don't recognize the cameos from Gossip Girl, you can always tell it's the cameo.

Yeah, yeah,

Norman Buckley: yeah.

Because they're not actors is Exactly, yeah.

Yeah.

I had some good.

I had, oh, who did I have?

Oh God, what is her name?

I'm thinking of the designer and I can't, I'm blanking totally on her name right now.

She designer college episode.

Oh, the designer who did the rap dresses.

What is Diane

Caroline Lagerfelt: Von Furstenberg?

Yes.

Norman Buckley: Diane von Furstenberg.

That's the, she was in one of my episodes and she was, I think we

Leif: just actually did that episode.

Norman Buckley: She was delightful.

She was wonderful, wonderful to work with.

And Amy.

Um, I'm trying to think who else I had that were, were big cameos.

Oh, well it's been a while.

Caroline Lagerfelt: We have great actors on that show.

Sebastian Stan.

I mean, yep.

Norman Buckley: Yeah, Sebastian Stan was great and, um, wonderful.

Caroline Lagerfelt: And what's that wonderful guy who played, was it Layton's father, that fantastic New York actor?

The shorter,

Norman Buckley: oh, um, John, she played Layton's father.

Leif: Yeah, yeah.

Norman Buckley: Yes.

Margaret Collin played her mother, right?

Yes.

And uh, uh, here's a funny story.

Uh, I was.

To direct an episode of with Margaret Collins.

She was supposed to be in my episode, and then for some reason she couldn't do it.

She had some type of conflict.

And so, uh, ROA up until that point had only been a character who would do a, a line here and there.

She, she'd been in a couple of my episodes, but she, she'd never had a big part.

But there was this one episode, I, I can't remember which one it is.

Margaret wasn't available to play Leighton's mother.

And so I was in a conversation with, uh, one of the writers and he said, well, I think we'll just give those lines to Darda.

And I said, well, if you're gonna do that, then let's make it like she's been with the family for many years and that she's basically like a second mother to her by virtue of the, I say, because these, a lot of these women who work in these, these roles and these wealthy families, you know, they're with.

The family for years and years and mm-hmm.

Like a part of the family.

And so that happened in my episode.

And, uh, uh, Susanna, who played the rota was always very grateful to me.

Another fan favorite because she felt like that I, um, really.

Help facilitate the, the, the nature of her part kind of expanding?

I don't, I don't think that's entirely true.

I think that the writers were already moving in that direction, but I definitely, I definitely remember having the conversation with the writer of that episode and saying like, but you gotta, you gotta give it more of a, of a feeling like she's, she's been there for a, it just can't just be information, it's gotta feel like it's a character.

It's gotta feel like it's a character that, um, has been with the family for many, many years.

And, uh, so I was delighted to see ADA's part just expand exponentially over the run of the show.

Caroline Lagerfelt: Well, it was wonderful because she became, you know, like a huge fan favorite, and we all looked forward to her character appearing on screen.

She had wonderful, pithy things to say.

She had a combination of love and impatience, which was just absolutely delightful.

Yeah.

Norman Buckley: And she is a delightful actress to work with as well.

Yeah, she's one of the

Caroline Lagerfelt: other ones I keep in touch with.

'cause she and I both theater.

Norman Buckley: Yeah, me too.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

Caroline Lagerfelt: And, uh, she's,

Norman Buckley: no, she's one of the ones I stay in touch with.

I, I stay in touch with a good part of the cast, but, um, definitely some more than others.

Some I'm deeply close to and then others I have casual acquaintances with.

But, um, I, I stay in touch really.

A good part of the cast.

Leif: Well,

Norman Buckley: any

Leif: fun stories from the set?

From either of you?

Norman Buckley: Well, I directed the first season finale, which was

Leif: much idea about nothing.

Norman Buckley: Yeah.

Which was, um, Kelly's, I can't even remember Kelly's character's name.

What was Lily?

Lily?

Lily.

Lily Lily's marriage to Barb Bass.

Mm-hmm.

Norman Buckley: Anyway, um, I was directing the, uh, wedding of Lily to Barb Bass.

And the wedding reception was to be on this, uh, one day with the entire cast.

Um, for some reason I never do this, but for some reason I, I called everybody in to the, the ballroom and I said, I just wanna talk everybody through the, the day so that you understand what we're shooting, how we're shooting, why we're shooting.

So nobody asked me when do I get to go home?

Just, I'm gonna, I'm just gonna like tell you what the whole day's gonna be.

Put everybody in their place, talked through all the camera placements of, um, uh, the entire day.

And then, um, uh, we started shooting.

And then at lunch I was in a hurry to get to lunch because I had stopped to have a conversation with the assistant director about some things.

And I was running and I tripped on a marble staircase and I went.

Straightforward and completely shattered my nose.

And so the, the nose I now, now have is not the nose I was born with because they, uh, completely, uh, completely shattered it.

So they had to take me to the, um.

Er, uh, to sew it up.

But because of the fact that I'd gone over the entire day beforehand, they just carried on shooting Joe Lal, I know, um, the producer on set.

He mm-hmm.

Stepped up and directed the rest of the, um, that day's shooting.

And I came back with my nose, uh, sewed up thinking that I could carry on with the day.

But then they had put me on a really heavy antibiotic.

And I fainted.

And so I had to go home and, uh, uh, I then they, they, they, um, sent me for a CAT scan the next day and everything was fine.

So I continued on with the episode on Vicodin because I was so, uh, in so much pain, but I had my nose, um, uh, sewn up enough so that I could complete the episode.

And then I stayed in New York for two weeks, two additional weeks while they basically gave me a nose shot, uh, because I couldn't fly home because my nose was So

Caroline Lagerfelt: you really smashed it

Norman Buckley: there.

I really did.

I a war story.

Caroline Lagerfelt: It is a war story.

Norman Buckley: That is, um, that is my, um.

That is my best, uh, story for you.

Well,

Leif: thank you for sacrificing your body for so we can watch the show for good, for good

Caroline Lagerfelt: story.

I'll tell you one, one we're talking about, I was thinking when you guys were talking about favorite shows.

I'll tell you one of my favorite shows to watch because there's a snippet of it that I think I've posted probably outta the last 10 Thanksgivings I've posted about every other year, and I'll probably post it this year is the Thanksgiving scene.

Okay.

Leif: Yeah,

Caroline Lagerfelt: I mean, I posted other people post it.

It's all over Instagram, around Thanksgiving and everybody still gets such a kick outta that episode.

And you know, as the table just gets less and less people and more people get upset and just get up and storm off, you know, but that was, um, I always enjoy watching that.

Leif: The timing and the beats and everything on that scene was, was great, was everything was.

It's the, it worked so well.

Caroline Lagerfelt: Yeah, it was really, really, it.

It was a lot of fun and, and again, it was one of those shows where everybody was on set, all the kids and everything, so it was always enjoyable to shoot that, you know, you got, you got to catch up with everybody.

Leif: Was it a lot of takes or did you, was it or they, did you like break up when he was shooting it?

I

Caroline Lagerfelt: think it was pretty much broken up.

I don't remember it taking it, you know, I can't remember who directed that episode.

Do you remember Norman?

Norman Buckley: No, I don't remember.

Um, but it was

Caroline Lagerfelt: cut together.

It was edited together so well I thought.

And um, of course Matthew, who marches to his own drummer always

Norman Buckley: definitely

Caroline Lagerfelt: was telling his long, long, long funny story.

Oh God, no, that,

Norman Buckley: do you still stay in touch with him?

I know you guys were close with him.

I did

Caroline Lagerfelt: actually.

I saw him very, very recently.

He's friends with a, a Swedish friend of mine, and I just suddenly got a message that he was going to, because I go to the Swedish church in New York on Madison and, uh, 48th Street and fifth Avenue there, and I suddenly got a message from this Swedish friend of mine, oh, I'm bringing Matt to church this Sunday.

And I said, well, you do know that it, the service is all in Swedish.

It's.

I don't think he speaks it, but he was fine.

He sat, he came there, sat there.

We, you know, it was so nice to see him.

And then of course, as always in Swedish church afterwards, there's coffee and cinnamon buns and cardamom, bums and cake and cookies.

I mean, classic as important, all Mr is going,

Norman Buckley: no, by the way, Carolyn, I had a piece of that cake that you had on the set today.

Oh

Caroline Lagerfelt: you, I was so upset.

'cause I thought you weren't gonna be there.

Norman Buckley: No, no, I had a piece.

I, uh,

Caroline Lagerfelt: it's fun.

Uh,

Norman Buckley: Carolyn bought a, uh, cake for the CR

Caroline Lagerfelt: Yeah.

Today.

Yeah.

It's called Princess Cake, and it's a very sweet, famous cake.

She lives an hour outside Atlanta, so I drove there in the morning to pick it up, and I drove back and dropped it off.

I wanted to have something Swedish with a cast and crew to sort of show my appreciation.

Norman Buckley: We're wrapping up our fifth season here in Atlanta.

So there's just a few more days of, of, uh, this season and so

Caroline Lagerfelt: fifth season, but sixth year, that's what I always have to remind myself.

Norman Buckley: Crazy, isn't it?

Yeah.

Six

Caroline Lagerfelt: years ago you called me when I was in Sweden.

Yes.

Leif: Yes.

The director of the Thanksgiving episode was Mark Pisarski.

Caroline Lagerfelt: Who was it?

Leif: Pki.

Yeah.

Mark Pisarski.

Norman Buckley: Who directed the pilot.

Leif: Yeah, he's the pilot.

The pilot King.

Right.

He does a lot of pilots.

It's

Caroline Lagerfelt: so nice you guys have your computers.

You can look up all the stuff that we can't remember.

That's wonderful.

Leif: Well, anything else you guys wanna add on gossip before we move over to speak Magnolias?

No,

Norman Buckley: I think I've covered my part, an episode, so

Caroline Lagerfelt: I leave that up to Norman if yes, more,

Norman Buckley: unless, unless you have some, uh, specific questions about it.

I, uh, I'll say this for the record.

I love Blake Lively.

I think she's a wonderful person.

I think that, uh, I, I, I don't really like her when anybody says anything bad about her.

Because I think she is, um, delightful and, uh, as, and, and I feel that way about every person in the cast.

I think everybody in this cast was just, uh, a dream to work with.

Caroline Lagerfelt: Lovely.

And I couldn't have asked for a better

Norman Buckley: Yeah, better.

We

Leif: try to stay away from that.

Ugly.

This, it's been going on.

I'm

Norman Buckley: just telling you.

All I'm saying is I think she's just a wonderful person and I, and I that's to hear and I love her.

Uh, love.

I love everybody in this cast.

I love everybody in this cast.

This was, this was a really fun show to work on because there was nobody that I didn't like.

And that's a good segue to with Magnolias because that's another show and there is nobody that I don't enjoy working with.

Yeah.

It's a delightful show to work on from top to bottom.

Caroline Lagerfelt: Well, I think, you know, you're talking about two major shows that both went for years, and I think one of the reasons.

That you keep saying, I loved everybody.

I got along with everybody.

There's nobody I don't like working with.

It's because you are such an amazing person to work for and with really, and you make us feel like we're part of, we're, we're partners almost.

And um, you know, the kindest man I've ever met in my life.

Norman Buckley: Yes.

Sweet to save and

Caroline Lagerfelt: you don't waste time.

And we have a lot of wonderful directors on the show.

We have young directors, we have new directors.

We've had some older directors.

But every time I see a, an episode that says Norman directing, I'm like, that's gonna go fine.

Just never worry about a thing.

Leif: So on this show, I believe Doby, you do have more of a creative side on this because you are an executive producer.

I'm a co-executive

Norman Buckley: producer.

I've been with it since the beginning.

I directed the.

It wasn't really a pilot because we did 10 episodes all at once, and so it was, we had a, we had a 10 episode order, um, uh, but I directed the first one and I directed six in the first season.

I directed four in the subsequent three seasons, and then I've directed three episodes this season, so a total of, uh, 21.

And yeah, I've been very involved in the, um, the design of it, the, the visual design of it, and, um, work with a showrunner named Cheryl Anderson.

And Matt Drake and Dan Paulson are the executive producers, and it's a lovely show to work on.

I've really, really enjoyed the, um, collaboration with everyone in the, the cast is just stellar.

Uh, I actually worked, uh, with Joe Joanna Garcia Swisher.

Uh, I'd worked with her on a show.

That, uh, actually Josh and Stephanie had recommended me for called Privileged.

Caroline Lagerfelt: Oh, I didn't know that.

Norman Buckley: Yeah.

Many years ago.

I did one episode of that.

And then Joe actually did several episodes of Gossip Girl as well.

Yeah.

Leif: Did did you direct any of her episodes?

Norman Buckley: I did.

I directed one of her episodes.

I can't remember which one.

I directed one of her episodes.

And, um, she and I had, uh, remained friends and then, um, I knew that this part would be right for her.

And, um.

She's a wonderful person, as is Brooke Elliott and Heather Headley, the other stars of the show.

And then also Jamie Lynn Spears, who's a delight.

Everybody on the show is wonderful.

Um, I don't, uh, have anything bad to report about any of my collaborators.

It's been, it's been a real joy and, uh, I, I do think that it's hard to believe that it's been six years and it's different because I think one of your questions that you said you wanted to ask is how is it different working on a.

Long show versus a short order.

Leif: Yeah.

Norman Buckley: It's different because we're in and out really quickly, whereas, um, well, and

Leif: it's, and yeah, as opposed to the old styles, everything's written before you even start shooting typically now when That's correct.

Whereas in the old network days, you would be, you only like two or threes episode.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Norman Buckley: It was chasing your talent and Yeah.

And you know, that's, that's something interesting because I do feel like that.

Particularly as you get into those later episodes of a 22 episode order, they're writing really fast.

And so sometimes there's episodes that are my less favored episodes of any given show.

Based upon, you know, how quickly it was written.

But, um, yeah, we we're, um, we've, now we're about to complete 50 episodes of Sweet Magnos.

It's hard to believe, isn't it Carolyn?

Like,

Leif: unbelievable.

Norman Buckley: Yeah.

Been so quickly.

I

Leif: know.

So, c you play Paula, what can you say are, are, she was once, once again a grandmother slash mother character, right?

Uh, but can you say, what are the similarities of the differences?

Between her and Cece?

Caroline Lagerfelt: Well, I think the similarities are that they are both in their own rights, strong women.

I think she's be, I think, uh, that Paula is more of a free spirit.

I, I've, I sort of imagined her as having traveled around Europe a lot when she was younger and painting, and that's why I wear all these little rings on the show and everything.

Um, more of a free spirit.

Uh, yeah, definitely not such a, yeah.

A cutting wit as maybe CC had

at all.

Caroline Lagerfelt: Or loving.

I mean, my, my kids who are so used to me playing rather evil, women both on camera and on stage, were incredibly impressed.

And they were like, mom, you are so good in this.

Look how nice you are.

Unfortunately, they recognized me more with my shark tongue and my wit than they did in this warm, cuddly mother.

But they still love me and, um, they love the show too.

So, um.

Yeah, I, I don't see any, I think the similarities are, as with all mothers, you fight for what you think your kids should do.

Right?

And Cece had her own way, which was very sort of dictatorial and didactic.

And you know, this mother is a little smoother, a little gentler.

And, um, she also has, I think, a, you know, a very smart daughter.

You know, Joanna plays a very warm, intelligent woman, so it's not somebody that you have to say, Hey, don't do that.

You know, somebody that you can more talk things through with.

And, um, I love my scenes with Joe.

I usually get at least one scene with her where we talk more intimately about maybe.

Her relationship or her father.

That was my husband and I long for those scenes.

We had a little porch scene this episode, this season, which made me so happy.

Directed by Brooke Elliot.

Norman Buckley: Yeah.

Caroline Lagerfelt: I thought she did a wonderful job as a director.

I say

Norman Buckley: It's a beautiful scene.

Caroline Lagerfelt: Yeah.

And she was so happy with it.

And, um, so I always look forward to like having one scene with Joe where I can.

Just the two of us talking.

Mother and daughter.

I don't have a daughter.

I have two sons, wild sons.

Well, one's very wild.

And um, so it, it's fun sort of living through.

And now I have a granddaughter, so I am actually a, finally a grandmother and I, which I love.

And so I would say they both fight for their children in the way that they have been brought up to do one, a little nicer than the other.

Leif: Anything else, uh, you guys either of you wanna add?

That's all the prepared questions I had.

Norman Buckley: Well, it's nice of you to want to talk to us and, uh, I think that, uh, you know, we're, um, delighted to kinda revisit, uh, some of our past work.

I think I can speak for Carolyn saying that it just so happened like Carolyn and I are having dinner tonight.

Mm-hmm.

And

Norman Buckley: I said, Hey, you know, I'm, I said I'd do this podcast.

You wanna do it with me?

And, uh, it just worked out.

So I'm happy it worked out and, uh, uh, yeah, we just,

Leif: well, I thank you both for joining me.

It, it was a great pleasure to have you on and.

Is there anything either of you wanna plug or recommend?

Norman Buckley: Well, I, uh, have been doing, uh, a, um, show, uh, I did a show earlier this spring.

Called the Chicken Sisters, which is for Hallmark.

And I have to say, I just watched my episodes that my two episodes were on like a, uh, the, well, it's a couple of weeks ago now, but they were on one week after another.

And I was pretty delighted with how they turned out.

I was, I was like, this is a really fun show.

It's another show about women in the South.

It's funny, you know, because, um, I remember one time I was on a panel where.

Where, um, the, one of the panelists was saying, well, I think women should be directing shows about women.

And I said, well, if that's the case then I'm outta work because I said that's, those would be most of the shows that I work on are shows that are, that are based around women.

And, uh, but yeah, I just did this show called The Chicken Sisters and, um, where

Leif: could people watch that?

Norman Buckley: That's on Hallmark.

Leif: Okay.

And

Norman Buckley: then I am about to go up to, uh, Canada.

To work on a, a new show for Netflix that is in the tea genre.

So it's kind of returning to my tea genre roots.

And so, uh, when I know, uh, a little bit more about what the release plans are for that, it, it will be on Netflix.

But when I know a little bit more about that and I hesitate to talk too much about it before I wanna get you in trouble,

Leif: but, uh, we will keep our eyes out for it.

Norman Buckley: Yeah.

But it's, um.

It looks like it's gonna be a lot of fun.

The, the, the pilot script was really wonderful and, and, um, I'll be doing the third episode of their first season, so that'll be fun.

So that's kinda what I have to plug at the moment.

Carolyn and I are gonna find something to do together.

We're gonna like, uh, I know

Caroline Lagerfelt: I've told him to be his reserve grandmother.

I just give back.

Norman Buckley: We're gonna find Southern, we're gonna find a a, a feature or, or, uh, or, or, uh, a CEO or, or something.

Leif: Yeah.

Caroline Lagerfelt: Yeah.

I'm going to New York to do a movie for a month and um, now I'll be waiting for a call from Vancouver.

Norman Buckley: Yeah.

Well, thank you for asking us, Lisa.

Thank you so much for letting me join you.

Yes, thank you.

I, I really enjoyed this.

Yes.

Caroline Lagerfelt: And I'm gonna go watch the whole of Gossip Girl again.

Leif: Okay.

All right.

Caroline Lagerfelt: Bye-bye.

Thank you.

Leif: Yep.

Bye-bye.

We are back and thank you for listening.

That was quick.

Yes.

Once again, thank you very much to Norman Buckley and Carolyn Lager Puff for joining the podcast

Steve: and taking the time outta your night to, to just sit and hang out and, and talk to us.

Thank you so much.

We cannot tell you how much we appreciate it, and we really hope about

Leif: one or both of you will come back to recap an episode at some point.

Steve: Yes, we would love that.

It would be a lot of fun and I will make sure to be there.

Leif: Well.

That is it for the episode.

So if you would like to follow us on social media, you can find us on Instagram, TikTok and Threads at Non-Judging Breakfast Pod, and you can find links to our subreddit, our Discord server, and our Patreon on our website Non-Judging Breakfast Pod dot.

Steve: And if you would like to get in touch with us, we would love to hear what you have to say and maybe even read what you have to say here on the podcast.

You can get in touch with us by sending us an email at Non-Judging Breakfast pod@gmail.com.

You can also go ahead and hit that like.

Follow or subscribe button.

And while you're at it, leave a comment on Spotify or Apple Podcasts 'cause that really helps boost our visibility.

And why don't you go ahead and tell your friends what you're listening to get, give them these great insights from Norman Buckley and from uh, Caroline.

And please, uh, tell your friends that you're listening to make us the water cooler talk at your work this week.

Leif: And we'll be back next week this time for real, to talk about Season four, episode three, the undergraduates.

Until next time, you know you love us, XOXO.

Every time you walk away, run away.

You take a piece of me with you there.

Every time you walk away, run away.

You take a piece of me with you there.

Every time you walk away, run away.

You take a piece of me with you there.

Oh, it seems I'm walking right to your door.

My heart still resting.

Are you ever going to see everything you mean to me?

I'm trying really hard to believe.

Every time you walk away, run away.

You take a piece of me with you there.

Every time you walk away, run away.

You take a piece of me with you there, you walk away, run away.

Never feels right when I'm out here on my own.

I left last night and it feels like way too long.

Are you ever going to see everything you mean to me?

I'm trying really hard to believe.

Every time you walk away, run away.

You take a piece of me with you there.

Every time you walk away, run away.

You take a piece of me with you there.

Every time you walk away, run away.

You take a piece of me with you there.

Come back to me, smile, and you make my life.

Complete.

Every time you walk away, run away.

You take a piece of me with you there.

Every time you walk away, run away.

You take a piece of me with you there.

Every time you walk away, run away.

You take a piece of me with you there.

Every time you walk away, run away.

You take a piece of me with you there.

Every time you walk away, run away.

You take a piece of me with you there.

Every time you walk away, run away.

You take a piece of me with you there.

Every time you walk away, run away.

Every time you walk away, run away.

You take a piece of me,

Leif: I'm just gonna start recording just 'cause you are actually dropping some, uh, good stuff here.

I'm sure if people would be interested to hear that kind of thing.

Norman Buckley: Okay.

Do you wanna like do your intro first or what do you wanna, how do you wanna do it?

Leif: Uh, uh, yeah, so I'll, I'll, I'll read my little intro here.

So.

Hey, upper East Siders and all you Scandal loving listeners out there, you've just tuned into the Non-Judging Breakfast Pod where the coffee is strong, the waffles are fresh, and the gossip is hotter than ever.

My name is Leif and I'm your seasoned gossip girl veteran.

And normally this is where Steve would come in, but he was not able to bake it today.