And I invited you here.

I thought I made myself perfectly clear.

When you're a guest to my home, you gotta come to me empty.

And I said, no, guests, your own presences presents enough.

I already had too much stuff, So how do you dare to surbey me?

Welcome to I said, no gifts.

I'm Richard whine girl.

Oh, I hope you're doing better than I am.

It's been quite a more.

There was the traffic on the way here.

I got here moments after we were supposed to start recording.

What else is going on?

My electric toothbrush battery dyed.

I had to brush my teeth manually like they did in the Bible, which is tough for me.

And now I didn't even start recharging it.

So now I'll have to do it tonight.

I'm gonna have to do it again.

That's tough for you to hear.

You should, I mean, think about how I feel.

No one is ever watching out for me emotionally on this podcast.

It's all just me.

No one ever thinks about how I feel.

Oh, is there anything good happening?

I bought a bag of dirt yesterday and that's probably all we'll talk about.

Today because that's the bright point in my life, and I think that's everything I've brought.

The mood way up.

People are cheering, they're so excited to be here.

I actually am excited to be here because I love today's guests.

Everybody really adores today's guest.

It's Alison rich Alison, welcome to I said no gifts.

Hello, thank you so much.

Can I start off with a big regret?

Oh?

I love regret.

So I was trying to do a little joke before by slurping lock into the mic with my diet coke, and now I still have like detritus or something.

So I've got to cough.

Micro choking holding it.

Let's hear it.

Okay, Now I can free throatedly.

Can I match you?

Please?

There we go, just in case.

And I I it may come back.

You know it's and I didn't even I'm yeah, I'm not in a top podcasting form.

It's been like, I don't know, a month since the last time podcast.

When was the last time you had a drink of liquid or alcohol of liquid?

You know, three minutes ago when I was trying to do this.

I know, but before this, you're obviously not in practice.

I know, you know, I took a spinder for the road.

Yeah, kind of.

So now there's an open can in my car, and I know it's gonna.

Be how much did you drink?

I probably drink like three SIPs.

I'm terrible.

I'm so wasteful when it comes, you know, and then I'll put it back in the fridge and be like I'll come back to that, and then I won't.

And my fridge has a weird uh something to it where if you leave a drink in there for a minute and you drink it later, you're like, there's a new taste.

Oh no, there's like some sort of renegade food in your fridge that's making everything taste like that, maybe like a strong hummus.

But it's a real like chemical, metallic, like not food seeming taste.

Answer.

Yes, something like the sheddings of the fridge itself.

Wow.

I yeah, if I you're you're fooling yourself every time when you put a carbonated or sparkling soda back in the fridge.

Yeah, yeah, it will not be consumed, and when if you do force yourself to consume it, you're gonna be so unhappy.

Yeah, it just I guess I wish more things came more bite size, you know, because I don't really I'm very noncommittal with anything I eat or drink.

Right well, they have a lot of those sodas now have the like half size, which.

I hate, I know, so wasteful the packaging.

The packaging is wasteful.

I want the full thing.

I need a full can.

Maybe we should move in together.

Interesting to finish my half drunk drink.

We won't finish each other's sentences, we'll finish each other's drinks.

What sort of spin drift did you have?

It was a lime?

Okay, not my favorite.

Yeah, it's I find most are like, I'm on board with most of them.

One or two I'm like absolutely no, thank you, And I think I have one or two faves, but then you drink them too much and you're like, oh now I'm over this.

So I think lime is fine.

But there's like a blood orange or something that I'm like, that's kind of beater.

Don't like the blood or they don't.

What is that on your absolutely not list?

It's on my avoid me and my man.

We go back and forth at the grocery shopping, so sometimes you might buy it you know, and then I'm like, Okay, well it's here, I'll drink it.

But we've been talking a lot about spin drifts.

We talked about this recently on the podcast, and I said that I love grapefruit.

Oh see, I don't love grapefruit.

I guess I just like an unpleasant beverage.

Yeah, apparently that's all all consumed.

I thought you were gonna say grape aid.

Do you know they have that one?

Nothing that sounds horrible.

It's it's it's packing way more of a flavor, flavor punch than the rest.

Of the I don't even understand what the aid is.

It's like a made up flavor first.

Like lemonade?

Is it?

So?

Actually, maybe that's exactly what it's supposed to be, like they're just adding suffixes.

But it tastes I feel like it tastes like Welches grape juice water, like bubbly.

Or something that doesn't sound good to me.

I don't know.

Do you remember the welch is Grapefruit Girl or the Welch's grape juice Girl.

Yes, she's like there's like a Dakota Fanning type like shortlonde hair.

Yes, yeah, it may have been Dakota Fanning.

Maybe that was.

Think we would have known that trivia right, Well.

She might be keeping that from the general public.

Okay, you know who does that?

A lot is people who were on road rules, you know, like THEO vaugh.

I didn't know he was on road rules.

This actress Jamie Chung, who's extremely successful, and I was in like a Hulu show with her years ago, and I remember halfway through filming being like, weren't you on road rules?

And she was like, I'm a good actress now, And she is.

She's fantastic, but I think she tries to like.

Well, then look at you on this kind of anti pr PR tour taking it out.

No, I haven't seen her in yours and she's a lovely person, and.

I want to look her up because I feel like, obviously we all know THEO Vaughn at this point.

No one's a fan let's see or people.

No.

I feel like he's a tough I don't I don't know.

I don't know enough about him.

I'm ready to start a war.

Yeah, I feel like there's.

Some there's a you know there.

I have some concernatives in my family, and I also have like doofy straight dudes in my family, so I feel like I have greater patients.

Oh but but I don't know, Like if you're gonna tell me like, oh, he is actually like a Nazi or whatever, I'd be like, Okay, no, I'm sorry, I didn't know.

I'm not up on the facts about him, so he sucks or whatever.

Yeah.

I'm like, I will hear names enough that I just start to think, oh, that's a poisonous person and connected to other things, and I start putting the pieces together rather than looking into it.

I just start taking all of my collection of assumptions and making one grand assumbly.

I don't feel like I do that enough where I'll be like weeks into consuming someone's podcast and a friend is like that, you know that person's bad.

I was like, what, But they're banter's fun.

You know.

I don't do my due diligence.

There was a podcast that I was strongly recommended to me, and I was going on a trip, so I downloaded almost every episode.

I got about four episodes in and thought, oh no, what am I listening to and what does this mean for anyone who's listening to this, including the person who recommended it to me.

Okay, wait, what was the pod?

I'm not even going to say because I don't want to give it any more press.

Okay, but yeah, I go through the same thing where you can kind of just be lulled into certain things.

Yes, falling in love with the personality.

Yeah, but this I felt like I had been scammed.

Okay, you're gonna have to tell me off air.

O I will.

Then you might be like I love that podcast.

I actually produced that podcast.

I'm actually the host of that.

Yeah, it's me.

You're talking about me.

What's been going on with you?

Anything exciting?

My brother just had a daughter, so I'm about and our family already had plans to get together this week.

So I'm going to see like a four day old baby.

Wow fresh, just gonna snort her fresh stem cells?

Or is this your first niece?

Niece?

But I have three nephews.

Okay, so wow, it's really excited.

I feel like it like has made me fully click into kooky and because I'm like, oh the things I want to tell this little nub about being a woman in this world, and like, uh.

Are you a big when a baby comes?

A big gift buyer for babies.

No, I'm a bad like I mean, and how ironic to be on this podcast.

My love language is not gifts, and my families was not gifts.

We're very much like, Oh it's Christmas, venmo me fifty bucks so I can go buy this thing that I want, right, I'm gonna like I Also, I feel like for my own siblings, I like didn't get them wedding gifts.

I'm like, oh, you, we love each other.

I don't need to like get you a present because you know.

Like, of course, so I'm bad, But I did say out loud two days ago I should get her a gift, but has has anything been done?

Now?

I'm kind of in the same with a baby, especially, I'm like, I feel like, if it's a family member, they have friends and other people who are probably getting the baby a bunch of things.

And if it's especially if it's not your the first one.

Yeah, it's a little.

But I feel like I hear that you're supposed to get a gift for the mom.

Oh that I have never even thought about that I'm deeply inconsiderate.

No, I mean me too, But then again, what do you get the mom?

I think, like, maybe big underwear or something, right, like massage stuff, you know, just something to acknowledge, like you've been through a physical trauma.

Right.

I guess they have diapers, Yeah, things like.

That with some diapers for mom.

Yeah, no one ever thinks about the mom's diapers in these situations.

The baby's drowning in diapers, and meanwhile, what's the mom doing.

I'd like to think that the mom is putting the baby's diapers on and the dad's putting the mom's diapers on.

Oh.

Interesting.

When I have kids to think, I love to think about that.

Are is your family in LA or elsewhere?

They're elsewhere?

My parents I'm from Long Island.

My parents are trying to sell their house there, and my older brother's in Virginia, and so my parents are going to move down there.

And then I have two younger brothers in San Francisco, so we're kind of all going up to San Francisco.

Oh that sounds nice.

Yeah, I feel like that's my number one option out of those three choices.

Yeah.

Like as far as vacations go, sure, travel, sure, sure, sure.

Yeah.

Do you spend much time out there?

No, it's been a minute when the pandemic happened.

I fled up there for like six weeks, so I sort of like felt like I lived there for a little bit.

Got my car broken into, as happens out there, and I drove back from San Francisco to La with a trash bag on the window of my car because I like went to like an auto glass repair place and they were like, we don't have whatever piece is in the door right that like so so they were like we can't.

I think they took the chunks of glass out of the car, but then they were like, we can't put new glass in.

So I did the janky thing of taping like a trash bag, you know.

And this would have been like May twenty twenties.

I mean, it's oddly COVID friendly.

Yeah, that car, my car is air own illness inside.

Did they steal anything?

No, there wasn't even anything to me.

Yeah take something.

Yeah, Well, I'm proud of myself for not having left any valuable, you know, because I would have.

I'm not a careful gal.

I should have been robbed many times by now, so good job met.

Well that's an ambitious car robber.

Then, I mean they just thought they were very optimistic.

They don't see anything in there, and they.

Just gets a real racket there.

And I've heard this story that at this point I'm like, is this real?

But there's a story that there was so many break ins in San Francisco that like cops were, you know, doing this big operation to find out who's behind all these carjackings and then apparent and they had like created it.

They had like some spreadsheet on their computer being like these are all the cars they've been robbed and these are the suspects and blah blah blah.

And then that person left their laptop in their car with all the like data got the car jackings, and then their car got broken into and the laptop of data.

I'm sure that's not fully true because it's like do they not have the cloud?

Is that not like a Google docu?

But it just felt like.

Well, walk me through.

I'm always curious about situations like this when like the person finds out their car has been broken into and like what led up to it?

Because I just emotionally and your reaction to that sort of thing is I feel like it's such a weird thing.

Yeah, well, let's see, I had been leaving my car in the garage under my brother's apartment building.

There was parking for the residents, and I just parked my car in like a little not even a corner, just a part of the parking garage that didn't have a spot.

But I was like parking in San Francisco is really expensive or like dangerous.

So for like a couple of weeks, yeah, it's all coming back to me.

I just kind of hit it in the parking garage.

And then eventually the car got towed because they were on to me.

They were like, this is not a residence license plate, right right, So then got towed, picked up a car, and then a couple.

Then I had to start parking it on the street.

And so then one night I go to get it and the then window had been mashed in.

And then when you found the car when the window had been bashing was it just like a yeah.

Yeah, yeah, you know, I feel pretty lucky in life that like I generally am dealing with a combo of good and bad, Like a bad thing happens, but a good things around the corner.

But there have been patches where you're just like bad, bad, bad, And it just strikes at my sense of like just like, because I think I go around being like things are mostly fair, which is complete bullshit, but like has allowed me to like trot along being like But then sometimes I've really smacked in the phase a couple of times, being like, there's.

No justice, there's no reason your car.

If your car is toad, nothing bad should have to happen to you for fifty years.

That's what I'm saying.

Certainly nothing car related.

Absolutely not that is essentially going to prison as far as your car.

That is so unfair to I've.

Said my car toad twice, have you I've had.

I was in college on a road trip to la Ish with some friends and our car got told but it wasn't mine, but it still was just such a deeply inconvenient, weird experience, so expensive.

Yes, it's just I think I've probably said this on this podcast before, but I think it is one of the worst things human beings can do to other human beings.

Yeah, it's just so come on.

The one other time it happened was at the Jack in the Box in Hollywood.

Okay, I was like running to do something else and I was like, I'll just part my car on the Jack in the Box and I was gone for like fifteen minutes.

When I came back, it was gone.

And then I walked into the Jack in the Box and everyone turned around and was like it was you because clearly, like the tow truck guy was like, does anyone own a like two thousand and three Nissan CenTra?

Fifteen minutes?

That's ridiculous.

It was really fat.

I think minimum it should be eight hours exactly, Yes, fifteen minutes.

That's let my car hang up for hours.

Yeah, wh should like the Jack in the Box was.

Full break, Come on, there should be a we should give each other that grace of eight hours of letting your car be wherever you want it to be.

That's the kind of society I want to be in.

Yes, but fifteen minutes that manager at Jack in the Box is a psychopaths.

That's made me think of, like, Okay, if I got to decide how society was, what would my top rules be.

I've always thought if I was ever to be president, I'd sort of the only lat I would make is like all menus need to have photos, you know, because I'm just like that would help so much.

But recently I was talking to someone about if I were to make up my own religion, it would be in that.

And I don't remember everything I said, but I definitely said, we're you and holidays.

Okay, you new holidays.

No, we're keeping some of them, Christmas, Halloween in there, sure, of course, you know, and maybe add some new ones.

I also is like, I do like weekly meetings.

It's not literally church, but like, let's get together, let's chat, right.

I can't remember what else I said, but you know, I'm I'm obviously still forming the idea.

So if you've got a good good bedrock, yeah, holidays, yeah, holidays, the weekly check ins and uh.

Maybe you know it's really easy for it to go culty.

But how about an excuse to dress up?

Oh, we love that.

I feel like that's kind of church.

Yeah.

Although I feel like I was talking to my boyfriend about this recently.

He's like, I think it's good that you should have to dress up for church, but I feel like everyone's kind of reluctantly dressing up for church.

When I would go to church as a kid, nobody really wanted to be dressed up.

I think we need to make it more of an affair.

Yes, I really go for it.

A black tie thing.

Yeah, you know, everyone should look incredible.

Yes, I think so.

Isn't that also that like when commercial flights started as a thing, people would like dress up for the flight.

I think we just live in a more cash time.

Yes, you know, but I think church needs to class it up.

Come on, Jesus or whoever or whoever, what kind of church were did you?

I like, Wow, that's a that's not that's not a Unitarian.

That is the real there's.

A real uh central specific thing you do.

Yeah, and you know, thrown down Catholic.

I'm like, that's no joke, but Mormon is really no joke.

Yeah, Catholics you can kind of create your own at this point.

See, there's a spectra.

Yeah you know, my mom is at one end of the spectrum hardcore okay, and then there's you know, going to church on Easter and Christmas Catholic.

Right as a kid, would you go to church weekly?

Yes?

And would you have to dress up?

Yes?

Okay?

Yeah.

My boyfriend said he would wear jeans, which I thought that just doesn't really calculate in my head, like.

Yeah, what was the Mormon practice you have to dress up?

You would have to wear big long underwear.

Full underwear nothing else, kind of dragging on the ground, really baggy under Yeah, no, you would just have to dress up, which like meant women in dresses and men in slacks and ties and shirts or suits.

But you know, I.

Mean so sorry to think of all the stereotypes.

What are you from?

Utah?

From Utah?

Okay?

So have you been watching the stereotypes?

I love stereos.

Wait, I think I was because I was listening to an episode on the way and did you you watch.

The Secret Lives of normOn Wives?

I finally got the title down after watching.

Well, I've now watched Well, I've watched the entire series.

I'm rewatching season one right now.

Okay, I watched season one and I started season two and I stopped not because I wasn't into it, but now living with a man like the freedom to watch what you want when you want to watch it.

I'm in a prison.

I feel like I'm in a prison as well.

I should be able to watch whatever I want whenever I want.

Yeah, I shouldn't have to think about anyone else's favors exactly.

No, my boyfriend is actually quite like flexible and like I'm putting on in just like that I'm putting on girls and he tolerates it, whereas he wants to put on anime and I'm like, must we but but you can't.

You can't.

The wives go for it, would go for it.

Did he ever try it?

It wasn't even that I was trying to make him do it.

I would just sit down, turn the TV on and he'd be like, what's this and I'd be like, you so not you not?

This isn't for years?

Give him a chance.

No, he It's one of the dumbest shows ever created ever.

But I really like that tailor girl.

I can't tell how much of it is just because like, I think she's so gorgeous, but I actually think she has a good heart.

It's a big It's a big part of the show in season two, especially because there is a one of the other gals is named to me and she decides she's a fan favorite.

She's simply not which believe to me.

There are two women that I'm like, you look the same, but one I mean, no, they all, but they blur so much.

There's to me.

She might be confused with jen Affleck or Jesse has such a funny Jen Affleck lied about being related to Ben Affleck.

That's a lot.

That's another thing that we go over the season.

Holy, that's a whole controversy.

Okay, I mean I've been Unfortunately, I'm now just recapping the episodes.

I'm literally recording myself talking about so I know everything about the show is.

One of them owns like a hair studio.

Now that's Jesse and she owned something called jay Z Styles and Academy.

And I've not to brag.

Last time I was in Utah, I made a visit.

How was it incredible experience?

I walked in whoever the cashier or whatever.

They have two sections.

They have the retail where you buy your extensions okay, an entire wall of hair at then the salon.

And I walked into the retail and asked the cashier or whoever.

She was just on her phone.

I said, could you take my picture?

He said, you're the fourth person who been there to wait.

Okay.

So if that's not to me, is Demi the younger one who has an old husband?

Yes?

Okay, So that's another And my apology is still a listener.

If I'm so sorry, all I ever want to talk.

Stop listening.

Okay, Bridge and I are just hanging out.

Demi is married to Brent Brett Is I believe forty nine and thirty thirtyish.

There's a and he met her I believe when she was nine ew and I think he was twenty six.

He was actually forty nine at the time.

He's kind of stuck there.

He and he is been in reality shows.

He was in The Bachelor whoa I think, and then the pandemic threw his season off or something he was married to do Watch Real Housewives of Solic City.

I don't there's one of the friends of on the show.

I can't remember her name.

He was married to this woman.

This guy will do anything possible to get into.

A reality I also think it's so funny that so many of these women have been married and divorced and no, no shade, Like life is hard.

You know, you're making a decision when you're young.

But it's like, isn't that a big thing in your religion that you.

Do you stay married?

Yeah?

Yes, but it's also a big thing to get married young for Mormons.

Right, and to like hold onto your virginity, like it's a recipe for divorce.

Right.

It's like, if you don't want people divorcing, you would get that.

You know who doesn't get divorced is actually gay men.

They say, the lowest divorce trade, the lowest divorce.

Right.

If you look at straight couples, lesbians and gay men, gay men stay together because, for one, they wait for like thirty years to get married, right, they've been such a long yeah.

Yeah.

And then also women often initiate divorce, and so if you got two women, oh, it's like who's getting divorced first?

But gay men they're like are men in general like elsetay?

Wow?

Yeah, so I mean be just gay men.

Okay.

The last thing Mormon, the Mormon ever will be is a gay man, and unfortunately that would save their marriage situation.

Yeah.

But yeah, everyone on Secret Lives, I think almost every one of them has been divorced once.

Not there are a couple who haven't and probably should and probably will.

Like Jen Affleck.

Right, Jen Affleck is in her first marriage.

To Zach in her first of six.

I'm gonna guess fourteen.

He is bad, right, like the bit I saw him the White Witch.

Yes, oh gosh, yes, he looks.

Like something that would offer you Turkish.

Delight, yes, but which looks good but is disgusting.

Can we talk about Turkish delight for just for a few minutes?

Couple times through elementary school, did you read the Narnia books?

I think I read a couple.

I and especially in elementary school, you don't really know what even what it is.

But Turkish delight is this thing in the book that's like the ultimate temptation.

Then you find out later in life what it is and you're like, that's disgusting.

That's Grandma food.

It's like worse than Saltwater Way worse.

It's so bad.

Yeah, And I think sometimes I get I forget, Like years will go by and I'll be like, oh, like I think I remember actually going to San Francisco.

It's like stopping in Monterey and there was like a place where you get Turkish delight and it was confusing a bit with like baklava.

Oh that is a Turkish delight.

It's Turkish and it's good, yes, But Turkish delight, You're like, this is like colorful dough that.

You know, it's like slime.

Yeah, it's like very soft gummy, right, and no one likes a soft gummy, especially one that almost feels like it's been left in the car and the flavor is not powerful enough, the fruitiness isn't there.

But whatever flavor it is, it is bad.

It's like a week bad.

If you're going to put delight in the name, you've really got to, you know, find the perfect product.

Yeah.

Like if it was just called like Nobbin's, you'd be like, Okay, I forgive it.

But to be like yummy food, you.

Know, delicious, savory, Yeah, Turkish Delight was the ultimate disappointment for me as far as food and candy go, because I was like, this little boy is being essentially sent to hell to for this treat.

Remember much of.

The plot, Yeah, I think the witch is like, come have some Turkish Delights, okay, And he falls for it.

And then he goes and marries Jen Affleck.

And then he marries Jefflick.

And gets mad at her for going to like a Vegas.

Show, going to Chipendance.

When she pays the bills.

She absolutely pays the bills.

He sucks, Yeah, he sucks.

He's a bad egg, he kind of.

And then he promises he's going to medical school.

That drops out of That was the only reason to stay in the relationship.

She was going to be married to a doctor and now he's just kind of a loser.

Yeah, the whole group.

I feel bad for all of them.

But again, you know, you watch the show and you're like, oh, I feel so terrible.

Their lives are being ruined.

And then I think, well, but this is a decision they've made.

Yeah, but what a what a program?

Or maybe it's you know, it's got to get bad for you to snap out of it.

But if your whole community is in that, I mean, what was it for you to Yeah?

I mean, well or are.

You still fully in it?

I'm here to convert.

Yeah, okay, I'm available to the religion.

That religion in certain ways.

It has some good quality yeah, but a lot of bad ones as well.

I mean, being gay is a tough one for a moremony.

But I feel like that also for me was a nice like uh, a cheat, because it was like, well, I'm this thing that and they tell me that it doesn't exist, it's not reality, and I know it's reality.

What else are they telling me that's not true?

Yeah, it's sort of like such a clear thing that you're like, I can't stay.

Whereas like, you know, if you're a straight woman, you're like maybe I can believe that this is what it's supposed to.

Be, right, you know, and get my own reality show.

Yeah yeah, so it's that was that was it for me.

And I think most of the Secret Lives and Mormon Wives Scouts are leaving as well, or they're it's like they're like, we want to be part of it.

Then it's like, well, you don't do anything that has anything to do with that.

Religions.

I know they a lot of them like drained.

Yeah something is like I feel like, you know, it's a rule of thumb that if like something is forbidden, then people go hard the other way.

Uh huh.

And yeah, that is a thing within Mormonism is there's no like uh, once you leave it, there's no real support system or way out.

And so I think a lot of people swing in a crazy direction.

Which I'm sure for people who are still in Mormonism are like that person is drugs, that.

Person is now on myth Yeah yeah, yeah, we were right.

Yep, not me.

Wait did you ever do you watch a couple therapy another?

I just likedrown that so but in one of the seasons, there was a couple that had been More's.

Right and can I just say extremely annoying people.

Oh they sucked the woman.

She was very annoying.

But then I think she's gone on to live a crazy life, which I'm sure, like if you're still in Mormonism, you're like, well, if I leave, I'm going to become her.

Right, here's the perfect example of how awful it can be.

Yeah, but then again, you got they got to be on couple's therapy, the ultimate thing.

They're huge stars.

They got to meet Orna.

Yes, and if I would do anything to meet Orna, I would love to.

Except do we want to?

Because what if she's a real.

Person and we're just appointed, right, She's not what we see on camera Orna reach out.

I mean I always want to know what like her and esther Perel's like what are their relationships?

Like?

Oh of course, like what is their real life situation?

And Orna has that the mentor what's her name?

Oh yeah, I can.

They'll like cut to it and she'll be like this, she's.

Like a cartoon cat, you know, she's Yeah.

She's always like lounging on pieces of furniture, like she's melted to them.

If you were just like, what's kooky old New York therapist.

It's her red glasses.

She's so great, scarves, all that shit.

They need more of that show.

If there are plenty of dysfunctional couples, I know.

And you know they're so classy about it.

It's not it's just such a slow Honestly, this last season I was like, almost a little too slow of a burn.

Oh interesting, did you see there was the guy.

I don't know if this is interesting in all three your viewers, but I don't fucking care about you guys.

Okay, but.

Did you watch the last sees?

Of course, so the guy and the girl where the guy was like a little bit oh, he kept being like my trauma from college.

I can't talk about it.

I can't talk And.

What did I end up being?

It was like so it was.

And then she you come to find she had some real trauma.

She's like, oh okay, And he's like his thing was basic was like his college buddies.

Found some porn of his on hist computer that was like had heavy people had like there was some queer porn and he was like I was so.

Embarrassed, and you're like, dude, And now he's like forty and he's like when I was twenty, my my fraternity bros found that I had some porn of that wasn't just like blonde tips, you know, like I.

Think that was literally it.

It was like, Okay, everyone has different types of trauma.

It's like that come on, so basically, let's like yeah.

Meanwhile, his wife was like, oh when I was twelve, I was like.

Brutalize, I watched my family be killed.

Yeah yeah yeah, And you're like, I think she gets to be the one who's draw died.

Did they end up ending the relationship?

No, I think they lasted.

But that other couple with the short haired blonde woman and Boris Boris, Oh, Boris.

Boris.

He was a tough one.

He sucked.

Yeah, he was not fun.

They were very weird.

I feel like we can make this interesting even for people haven't seen this.

Basically, there's this couple and the guy took up all the oxygen.

He would always be like, my love, we're talking about me right now.

We'll get to you.

But me, we live in a city that I don't feel his home, and we've moved eighty times, but I need to feel it.

And it's like and I can't write my book.

Yeah, get over yourself.

And then they stopped coming yes, and she was like, yep, I think I lost them.

And then they came back and you were like, has the woman been brainwashed?

Because she was like I had asked him to leave many times and he said no.

And then I found out that he was planning a little birthday party for me, and I was like, that's so nice.

And then we went out dancing and I saw him dance and I remember, this is a little prince boy, and you're like that your husbands boy.

Yeah, And then later they got divorced.

And now I watch her on TikTok.

How she doing.

She's better now she's been free from him for three years.

I wonder if that period when she kind of fell for him, he got like a book deal and she thought maybe I can make this work.

She had been married to someone else and left him for this guy.

And in the show Boris Goes when Jessica came to me, she was extremely disoriented because what you fucking like hit her over the head and like, like, I was like that.

I mean that actually probably is true.

If she ended up with him, you have to be disoriented to date Boris.

He's such a loser, a little baby.

He is a little prince.

We wish him nothing but badness.

Well, look, there's something else we need to talk about that might be contentious that Orna could help with.

I was really excited to have you here today.

I thought, Allison is so wonderful, She's so lovely, she's so funny.

How could anything could possibly go wrong on the podcast?

The podcast is called I said no Gifts.

So I was a little thrown, a shaken, maybe upset when you kind of stormed into the studio today holding what, from where I'm sitting appears to be an absolute gift.

It's wrapped in red shiny paper with the silver bow.

Is that a gift for me?

It is a gift for you.

It's a bad gift.

If that helps, well, I don't know if that helps or hurts.

I mean, you've obviously created an issue and made a mistake.

Well, I misread the email.

I thought it was called I said gifts.

Oh you're a skimmer.

I'm a big skimmer.

I screw up a lot because I'm deleting keywords.

But yeah, I thought it was I said gifts, which I was like, Wow, Ridger, that's an awfully demanded reader.

Who I'm that tacky?

Yeah, I thought you were, and I'm not sure you're not, but I do acknowledge.

I must say the last half hour of talking has proved that I have pure I'm class, I'm very classic.

Okay, fair, fair, fair, fair.

Well it's here.

You've made the mistake.

There's egg all over your face.

Should I open it here?

On the podcast?

You absolutely shit?

Okay, As I said, it's kind of like a book size gift with red paper and one of these bows that seems difficult to just stretch it.

Just stretch it on it.

Yes, so you said it's book sized.

Cats out of the bag.

It's two books.

Two books.

It's two books.

It's two books, and let me tell you they're bad books.

Because my thing is I have a habit.

Of going, yes, the Gunman and his mother.

Yep, it's about Lee Harvey Oswald and his mom.

And then the other.

One is unlocking your artistry.

Yeah.

So my thing is I like to buy.

I get ambitious.

If I walk into a place with books, I'm like, I'll read, I read, let's read.

I buy a book and then I never open it.

So these were written from my bookcase fifty percent of my bookcase I haven't read, and I was like, I gotta.

My boyfriend was like, there's a lot of lame books on the you know, and I was like, this is honestly a gift for him.

Read a little culling, and I think these two books exemplified the two shitty categories of book that I buy.

That I think I'm going to read what a spectrum.

One is self hell creativity, and the other is true.

Crime, true crime, absolute violence.

There's a little flicker in me that goes, take back the gunman in me because I want to read it.

I mean, just looks like it was self published first of all.

Truly, it's like a large fond the and his mother phone.

Yeah, it's basically a staple together.

Back it's Lee Harvey Oswald, Marguerite Oswald and the making of an assassin of an assassin.

So it seems like it's gonna blame Marguerite.

Yeah, I mean, moms are the cause of all.

Problems, every single problem on earth.

You know.

What I did read that sort of was a got into some of those themes where there's this book called Hidden Valley Road.

Okay, oh wait, what is this incredible about?

The family.

It's about a family with it's either ten or twelve kids.

I think it's ten kids, and six of them end up having schizophrenia.

And this is like in the sixties where you know, there was a school of thought.

The main school thought in medicine was like, schizophrenia comes from a bad mom.

So the poor mom was when it actually like Jenes, you know, you either have like how about maybe.

There's a prem Maybe they're.

Right.

That was a very good book, and that I was and I read that book, which the thing is, I don't have a built in time in my life for reading.

I read that book on a vacation.

Oh perfect, I'm a reader on a vacation.

But I only go on a vacation like maybe once a year right right now.

But yeah, then I buy these books in my regular life and I never touch them.

So like for example, for the gunman and his mother, Yeah did you just did you were seeking out Ali Harvey Oswald book or.

Just saw this?

I just like fucked up real stuff.

You know.

I'm like crime and a child, and you know, and I like, I like nonfiction.

I haven't been able to read fictions and those like.

Fiction can be I feel like nonfiction can is surprisingly easy to read.

Yes, I think as you get older or something where it's just like you want to be reading, but you also want to be like learning, because you don't really have any other area of life where you're learning.

It's like in school, you are learning constantly.

So I feel like fiction is easier than you want to get away and.

Like fiction chapter to chapter ostensibly like build on each other.

Where it's like nonfiction, especially if it's like a lot of the self help and psychology shit I read, it's like, yeah, didn't really take in all of chapter two.

You can probably still reach aapter totally.

You can just breeze through horror sections of those books.

But okay, well, I feel bad taking this away from you.

I know so little about Lee Harvey Oswald other than is the big crime.

I didn't know that Marguerite had so much had everything to do with it.

Well, maybe the book says she was totally normal, her kid was a free.

But then she bought him that gun for Christmas?

Did she?

I don't even know that.

That's my Oh okay, that could have been a Christmas gift gone wrong.

Yeah, how do we know?

We don't?

That's the ultimate conspiracy.

Yes, yes, there was a Christmas gift that could have been something else, a train set, Yeah, yeah, and then we'd well, we wouldn't still have JFK.

But he wouldn't have gone the way he went.

We would have and the curse probably would have ended.

But because of this gift, Lee probably asked for something else.

Yeah, he probably wanted a truck m hm, or a new sweater.

And Marguerite thought, no.

Gun, gun for my child.

But that's really all.

There must be documentaries about this.

I feel like, I'm sure, I'm sure.

A million documentaries about the Manson family.

Yes, can I tell you?

Actually, the book that I'm reading right now is TV.

And by that I mean the last time I went to the bookstore, I'm like, my book taste is so embarrassing.

Went to the bookstore and there is a book that is just Flea Bag.

Okay, the scripts of Flea Bag.

It's called Flea Bag the scriptures, and it's just the two seasons, and so I am reading TV.

That is the only I do actually love reading scripts of things that I've already seen, because it's like just the movie or TV shows replaying in my mind.

You don't have to really imagine anything.

But how lame that.

I'm like, the only book guy can read right now is TV.

But I bet those scripts in particular because of the way that shows are very written.

Yes, and she's brilliant.

So it's like I'm reading college degree TV.

Okay, how often do you read a full script at a time?

How does that?

I do?

Because they go fast and so I'm on episode six.

That's lame, cancel me.

Every show should do this, release the script, I know, I know, Wow, really interesting.

I guess most shows are bad and that's why they don't do it.

But yeah, and I'm sure you know that was such a hit that she's like, look, I'm gonna ring this for.

All it's self contained.

She really made a lot out of those two seasons.

Yeah, and now she's what writing some movie?

Yeah, I'm not sure.

And you know, I'm thinking, like I've also been revisiting a lot of Lena Dunnet, and I'm like, you know what, when you put out a great work, you have to go away for ten years if you don't, or you can never do anything again, right, you know, I.

Think that's the way to go.

Usually it's like, why tarnish the thing.

Yeah, if you got away with it for eight seasons.

Yeah, take the money and just read scripts, do whatever you want.

But yeah, like, I just saw a new Manson documentary Okay, learned nothing, And I'm like, what does that say about my consumption habits that I just simply now know everything about the man?

You have consumed a lot about that?

Yeah, Okay, that's one that I think I've maybe seen a documentary, but it's not one that i've but I am like a rather basic bit who's watched like a ton of true crime, Right, I'm trying to think of like a particular topic that I'm like, I know a lot about that one.

But what does it for you?

With Manson?

Well, for a while it was so eerie, you know, I said, there were so many eerie elements of it was so all the witchiness and all the mystery.

But then like, once you know enough about it, you this final documentary for me was like, oh, these were just idiots who were bored.

Yeah, like that's all.

There was no real evil or anything.

There were just morons who had bad ideas and it was a wild time.

Yeah, you know, one of the true crime things I've consumed a lot of is like the nexium stuff.

Oh, I've like watched two documentaries, listen to the podcast, you know a lot of stuff.

And I remember when I was consuming that being like what is wrong with us?

Women?

You know that it's like you, how often do you see a cult that's like a lady at the top and ninety men like here and there.

There are some cults around by women, but mostly it's an ugly dude who plays volleyball and a hundred women selling their you know, liquidating their iras, and it's just and stuff like that where I'm like, ladies, we got because we are I think women by nature, if something's not going right in their life, they're going, I'm probably a piece of shit.

Something is wrong with me.

I got to fix me.

I bought my son a gun for Chris and that he killed the presidat.

Yeah, and so I think that leaves you vulnerable to this man is confidently saying something is wrong with me.

We are in agreement.

Let me follow him and give him lots of money and do group blowjobs.

Have you heard about this?

No?

Yeah?

Apparently, when like the cops were honing in on Keith R.

Nieri, he fled to Mexico where there was a whole other Nexium branch and he had his like top slave ladies there with him, and like as one final ceremonial act, he had them all give him a blowjob.

Like a like the spanking machine.

What's the spanking machine?

Like I remember what like at birthday parties or whatever like or something.

As kids, you would go through and everyone would spank you.

Oh okay, maybe that's a Mormon thing because I've never experienced.

I don't even want to google that spanking machine.

But just like so he was all just in a row or you know, maybe there's some alternat they didn't get into to the like choreography of it.

And then apparently the cops like bust in.

The blowsup had been completed.

I don't you know, but the cops cold very nice, but the cops bust in and a point, and one of his top ladies later said that he just like hid in the closet and that was the moment where she knew this is not some like Jesus like person.

He's small enough to fit in a closet or yeah, the poor one, because if if a cult came a knocking in my life, when I was nineteen, I would be in prison for racketeering because I have that personality.

And you know, now I'm like, you know, worldly enough to be like maybe no one has the answers, but I I would have because I like to follow rules.

I think that something's wrong with me.

All those things, you know, to.

Catch you at a low point, your lonely, you're like, well, here's a group of friends who wants me to do.

There's things up plan of like yep, yeah, sound right.

As far as I've gotten outside of religion is a book club and I'm not even a good book club member, y'h just bad at it.

Wait, so was there a point where, like, as a kid, did you believe?

And was there a day where you're like, there's no God, Oh.

I thought you were asking about the book club at first.

No, and I'm sorry, And you can also be like, let's not talk about that.

This is another podcast.

Through childhood, there was like there were little I feel like, there were little tent poles of like, Okay, that seems weird.

Yeah, that seems weird.

Every week church is boring.

So that's one thing that's just adding up over time.

And then like it just kept adding up at then I went on a Mormon mission, still not totally convinced of the thing.

And then you know, I was like on a bike eight hours a day in Malaysia, and it's like, what am I doing?

Well?

Mormon mission two years?

You go for two years when you're nineteen.

Oh my God, to just like spread the word.

To try to convert people.

And I was in a in Malaysia where it was illegal to do that, so we like kind of had to be undercover, which the whole thing was like, what's going on.

My boyfriend's half Malaysia.

Oh I could have got him.

You could have go.

Why didn't you?

Okay, I'll come over after the podcast.

Just believes in science and a little bit Buddhism, you.

Know, but yeah, there I it led to a literal nervous breakdown and then I was like four or five months in it was like I'm going home.

And then it was like the beginning of like Okay, I'm gonna slowly get out of this.

And then but you know, I left it, stop going, stop believing whatever.

But it was and then moved to La and then it was years before I even came out because like all that just keeps it a hold of you.

I'm sorry you went through that, but also makes you so interesting.

I'm a really deeply fascinating bread down you went to Malaysia.

Oh my god, somehow I ended up the most boring personal life.

You're fascinating.

But yeah, it just but there was never a I think there was really never a time that I was so in on it, you know.

But I was singing the other day, was like, it's weird that like at some point I was thinking going around being like, oh, I might not go to heaven, which is just like that fact, the fact that that had a control over my life is.

Really I was very like I was pretty devout as a Catholic.

When when did it turn for you?

Let's see.

You know, college I loosened up, okay, because I had mostly gone to Catholic schools.

I went to catholicchool till like tenth grade, and then I went to a public school.

Then in college, I met like so many different types of people that were cool.

And then also I then I remember a couple of years like when my younger brothers were in college.

I remember coming home for the holidays one time and my younger brothers being like we're atheists, and I was like, we are really going into the bathroom being like is there?

No, like just being like is there?

And yeah?

And then I also, like as a kid, was like I'm going to save myself till mat And then you know, end up being quite an old virgin, and a lot of that having to do with just reckoning like do I believe do I not?

But then also once I was like, okay, I'm not gonna hold onto this virginity.

Then being a little old and so you would meet a guy and be like, let's do it, But then I was such a I would tell them right.

There was no like let me just slip it in.

I do that though, there's no real normal way to.

Have it, and so then it just made it take longer.

This was a nice little mess.

Yeah.

I mean I remember like being like, oh, I'll save myself to marriage.

Why is every other boy having a hard time?

But it's because I had no It was so easy for me.

I was like, this is a briefing myself till dad.

Yeah, I could do this for the rest of my life.

Baby, so simple.

But yeah, it leads to a kind of slow the developments you have to make really quickly to catch up with everybody, or yeah, it's an interesting cycle to go through.

But then in certain ways, I feel like my queer friends who dealt with that, like I don't know, pre twenty five or thirty, I'm like, you're such a stronger person because you had to reckon with this giant thing about I being told a certain thing.

My experience is different.

I have to like claim and choose myself right, so that whereas I think, I think it's kind of the Mormonism where if you're like a straight white woman, you're like, society is kind of I don't know, I haven't had directly, so I feel like you end up in your thirties or forties and you go now is when you go this is bullshit, or like I want a divorce.

Or you know, like I don't.

Yeah, but I feel like that sort of person.

It like like what I said, I kind of had a cheat being gay, like an adult who's had a fairly normal life within their religion and then finally just puts it together.

I'm like, that seems re they difficult.

Yeah, it seems like wow, you like because you were really like saying I figured it out on my own, there was no other I don't know the difference hard.

I remember also ones asking a friend, my best friend from college, like he was out in college and then there was we were like at some reunion or something, but we were talking about a person who was coming out who was like forty okay, And I asked him.

I was like, when you're around someone who's going through the coming out process but they're forty, how is is that annoying for you?

Because it's like, well I figured this out.

And my friend was like a little bit, because this person has to go crazy for your life, and I'm sort of like, been there, done that, right, which I was like, that's funny.

Yeah, yeah, it's uh yeah, I haven't really thought about that because you're excited for the person to Also you're like, well.

You're about to be psycho psycho and.

May stay a psycho.

Some people stay psycho back in the closet.

You go back and they're find a wife.

Yeah, come on bugging everybody.

With your self exploration.

Okay, Well we've talked a little bit about the gunman and his mother, Then do we have anything to say about did you look at the even more like a fake book fully self published.

Yeah, it's by Peso the poet.

It's so sad and I bought this this year.

Oh my god, what the fuck?

What is there's like a baby?

What kind of books do you read?

Like a key in its mouth?

I'm all over the place.

I didn't read this recently, but I was going to recommend the library book.

Have you read that?

By Susan Orlean?

So?

How you pronounce her name?

The blood Orchid lady?

I don't.

Such a good piece of nonfiction, unbelievably good.

What is it a memoir?

No, it's about a some fires that took place in LA in the eighties or nineties, I think, And about the person behind all of that.

Okay, it's really I mean that reminds me though of Couple's Therapy this season with the throttle.

Oh and how the guy had been behind supposedly one of the like a big.

Massive fire, which he downplays in the biggest way possible.

Yeah and yeah, if you just watched that and didn't look into it, you'd be like this poor guy, he got blamed for something that he didn't do.

Then you look into the actual news reports and you start seeing a different picture about this guy.

Yeah, and he's so annoying.

Yes, and it makes you think, like, I feel like this is maybe a tide turning in the therapy world where I you know, I'm not a trained therapist, but I feel like, isn't it a thing that the therapist is supposed to like assume the greatest good of the like always gave the person the benefit of the doubt, right, But so like if you're the therapist a bad guy who's like accidentally lit two thousand houses on fire, and you're like, oh, man, that must have been hard for you.

Is that actually the best response when prahaptice person needs a dose of reality?

Yeah, there was behavior that led to that which is now in the rest of his life.

Yeah.

And there's this other there's this therapist, doctor Terry Reel that I've got.

I love that.

Doesn't it sound like a comedy, like a sketch comedy.

Yes, And so he's a therapist who is like come up on.

He was like on the New York Times podcast and I've been reading some of his stuff, but he talks about he does like a couple of therapy stuff, but he mostly focuses on like men's issues or whatever.

And he was like in my sessions, I tell them you're wrong, good for him, and I'm like, that's clean.

You know, that's how I as a therapist.

But I wonder I think it's a flawed idea that it's like, no, you gotta like be the person that can be like your ideas are good.

I don't know, because a lot of ideas are bad and a lot of personality traits are bad.

Yes, you come into my therapy office.

I'm blaming you from the moment you walk in.

Yes, you have problem, and I can see you're the cause of most stuff and now you're creating even more problems for yourself.

Let's get into it, yeah, rather than be like yeah.

Because then yeah, don't you just like feed the beast and let that guy in a throttle keep setting fires.

He's probably lighting one right now exactly.

I feel like you didn't learn anything that season, to be frank.

Yeah, he seemed bad at the beginning and bad at the end.

Yeah, And did the threatle stay together?

I don't think that For the most point, you don't know if they stay together or not.

They just like yeah, I think it has to be a pretty serious ending for them for you to know yes, I hope that they all found their way.

They didn't seem like a great group of people.

No, well, I think we should play a game.

Let's do it.

We're gonna play a game called Gift or a Curse.

But I need a number between one and ten from you.

Okay, five, Okay, I have to do some light calculating.

So right now, you have the microphone.

You can promote, recommend, do whatever you want.

I'll be right back.

Oh my god.

Yeah.

I remember getting the email and it said promote anything that you're up to it, And you know what I had to in my mind, go, Alison, you're incubating on stuff.

Okay.

This might not be a year of putting shit out there that people can consume, but it's a year of planting the seeds wherein three years ago, this Alison rich Gal's popping off left and right.

Okay, So I hope that's good enough for you the public.

You know that's I'm really getting mad.

Okay, Well, they can find you online.

You can find me somewhere.

Yeah, but get off my fucking back is mostly what I have to say.

Great, do you have anything to recommentions?

Do you have any recommendations?

Oh?

Recommendations.

Yee, I could have taken them more positive recommendations.

Ummm, no, there's nothing good out in this world.

No, there's lots of things.

I did rewatch All of Girls and it's excellent's.

Re watched a little bit of it recently and it does hold up.

Yeah.

I know is a messy person, but she is a writing an acting gene.

A well made show, very well made show.

I saw The Naked Gun wonderful time.

Because everyone's been saying good things, but you're like, oh, is it just because like I think, like I know the writers a little bit, like there are enough in our This.

Is a serial problem, especially within like our comedy, where everyone's like everything is the best thing they've ever seen, right, and then you go and see and right, that's happened.

I think literally every time for me, this it's very very funny.

It's just fun to be in a movie theater watching a movie where the only purpose of the movie is to be funny.

Yeah, nothing else.

Yeah, wonderful love that.

Yeah, that's a recommendation.

Great.

Okay, this is how we play gift or a Curse.

I'm going to name three things you're going to tell me if they're a gift or a curse and why, and then I'll tell you if you're right or wrong, Because there are correct answers.

You can win, you can lose, you can fall in between.

I love it.

Be very careful, all right.

This first one is from our Mega list of listeners, from a listener named Sarah.

Gift or a curse TUTSI rolls.

I don't think this is the right answer, but it's my answer.

Gift why because I love the chew.

I love that it's a good and it's it's way better than Turkish delight.

You know.

It's like an actual delightful flavor, and and it's it's not gum where you're like, oh, good flavor for a minute, but then this now piece of rubber remains and I just have to commit to it.

It like has a beginning, middle end.

It ends in your stomach, and it's not so chewy like an intense caramel where you're like, ah, fuck, this is made a mess of my mouth.

Right, So the more I say this, the more I go Gift no matter what, even though I get the sense that you're saying curse wrong.

It's a curse, absolutely a curse, of course, it's a curse tutsi rolls.

First of all, the tutsi role is no no one's favorite candy.

I'm to looking at the camera.

No one's favorite candy is the tutsi roll.

I would love to arguing that we don't need it anymore.

It's something from the past.

No one knows what it is.

It's not It is not a carameu.

It's not chocking.

Yeah, I don't know what it is.

It's not gum, it's not is it a brown taffy, it's not taffy.

Taffy's softer.

There's no reason for it to continue to exist.

There's a certain category of candies totsi rolls, necko wafers.

I mean when necka wafers are flavorless and difficult on the mouth.

Awful tasting.

Yeah, well, tutsi rolls are terrible and awful on the mouth.

No one ever seeks out of tutsi roll And also we've kind of developed a better version, the fruity, the little fruit flavored tutsi rolls, which are better.

Oh, those are yeah, and I would only ever get those at Easter.

There was interesting.

It feels like an Easter candy.

Yeah, those were.

But wait, I'm thinking of the flavored tutsu.

Yes, but so that because it commits to a flavor.

Yeah, lime, orange, banana, little banana.

But the flavors, as far as I recall, I haven't had one of those in a long time, are pretty accurate.

And it's an older candy, so they were.

I feel like they were ahead of their time as far as flavoring goes.

But the tutsi roll no one wants it.

I'll take them, but you're not.

You're not gonna go buy toutsi rolls.

I'll do that fucking today to spite you.

The only time totty rules have ever been purchased is by bank managers or out of spite.

Okay, well I continue the tradition today.

Okay.

One wrong?

So far?

Not a good look.

Number two.

This is from a listener named Michelle.

Gift you a curse reposting birthday wishes to your Instagram story.

That is a curse.

Why because that's going the fence I have you know?

And actually, gosh is it Chris what's his name?

He does a much better like riff on this.

You know, the guy with the long hair.

Oh, Chris Fleming.

I love Chris Fleming.

Okay, I'm glad that you immediately knew what I was talking about, because I was like, I don't know, you know, you describe someone, You're like, wait, are the descriptions like not?

I was gonna be like tall bird man.

Now I've done the damage anyway.

But Chris Leving does a very funny thing about how like if you see someone and they've reposted all these that's a scary bitch that like the friend group is intimidated by this person.

That like, if they felt like they had to post you out your birthday, it's because they were gonna bitch you out if you weren't, like you forgot my birthday.

And yet I have on my own birthday reposted because I get sensitive on my birthday.

I'm not saying a more mature me would not sure, but the me that I am get sensitive.

And I think I grow up in the time of Facebook, where your birthday in Facebook times you feel like the most popular girl in the world, because yeah, you're like, oh my god, that person that I like shared a college door.

You know, just like acquaintances are wishing you happy birthday.

Now no one's on Facebook.

So you wake up on your birthday and you're like, maybe your mom has texted you, and you're like, God, like, is anyone out there?

So that one friend, you know, maybe in Alana Johnston, you keep us on my red day and then you repost that and then suddenly people are either reposting you or they're at least texting you.

They're going happy birthday, and you go, I madter.

You're big acknowledged yep, but ultimately you say curse.

Yeah, because it's like it feeds into this thing of like needing attention to too far a degree.

Right, correct, There's no way I could argue against this.

I am on record.

I feel like it is the same as taking the birthday cards you've been given door to door.

It's yeah, so embarrassing, it's so demeaning to yourself.

It's humiliating.

It's no one likes looking at them.

Yeah, and we're all trapped in it, yes, because if you don't reshare them, then the person think that did the birthday wish thinks well, why did I do this?

It is the most toxic cycle on the internet.

Now.

See that's like I think the birthday har resharing them is gross.

But the friend who writes one.

I don't necessarily think that's gross because I'm.

I think that's very nice, right, But I.

Don't necessarily feel like if the person doesn't repost it, I'm mad at them unless they've reposted everybody else's.

Well see that's but they're going to repost at least one of those.

If they're me.

Yeah, of course, everyone, everyone that's trapped in the worst cycle possible.

It has to end.

I don't know how we end it.

Instagram just needs.

To kill Zuckerberg.

Well, that that would solve a lot of problems.

Someone give your son a gun for Christmas.

Bring back the Harvey Hostweld.

But it's what Instagram needs to do is implement a birthday reminder.

Yeah, which would become annoying as well.

But we've got to get back to that other toxic thing of Facebook, of everyone reaching out to you, making you feel like the most important boy or girl in the world.

But it's a bad thing.

Curse, absolute curse.

All right, you've gotten one right so far, You've got one left to do.

This is from a listener named Andy Gift Or a curse.

Sculpture of a person sitting on a public bench.

Wait is the sculpture including the bench, or the sculpture is the person and it's been placed.

On the bench.

Now you should I wouldn't give you any more information, but this is a little unclear.

These will basically be a bench and then there'll be like a bronze statue of a person sitting on it that's permanently part of the bench.

Mm okay, I would say curse why because I have a general aversion to like, like when I was a kid, we went on a vacation and we went to a steakhouse and there were mannequins.

Throughout that there was like a steakhouse.

Yes there was a man.

There was a mailmankin in the girl's bathroom.

They were just like what just like body figures about And I know a sculpture's the same.

It's more artistic, but it's also taking up like valuable bench real estate, right you know?

But I guess I give it points for like a little bit of whimsy and whatever city I imagine this to be part of cour But I need that butt room, is what I'm going to say.

And wrong, Okay.

These are a gift.

This is what a nice thing to keep you from looking like a loser.

You sit down on that bench and there's nothing else on a friend who's this friendless loser?

You sit down on it, and you're sitting next to uh Mark Twain.

If somebody just kind of looks, they'll be like, oh, that person's sitting next to a friend.

I see.

But don't we want to live in a world where we're secure enough to sit on a bench by yourself?

Absolutely not?

And are these bench people always famous like Mark Twain?

I think they are because I feel like the one I've seen is Mark Twain, and I feel like it's in front of a Nordstrom wrack.

But also, aren't you assuming like the person see observing you on the bench is either not paying attention or has bad vision that they go that's two people.

Oh interesting, right, like any But you're still a loser.

You know interesting?

Well, you're wrong, there's no there's no winning.

You got one out of three.

Now you are trying to get another point.

I'm sad.

Oh god, okay.

And now producer on Lisa is going to do their gift or a curse.

They're going to present one thing and we both have to speak to it, and they have their answer on a LEAs, what is it today?

Gift or a curse?

Flavored chapstick?

Do you want to go?

Or should I?

God?

You go?

Flavored chapstick?

Flavored chapstick is a flavored chapsticks a curse.

I don't think anything that close to the mouth should smell like food if it's not edible.

The cherry one is kind of the classic, and it isn't cherry, it's more medicinal.

It's horrible.

And then the ones that are like doctor Pepper or Apple or whatever.

I don't like that sort of thing.

It's a tease and it's ultimately worthless.

They should just be wax.

See.

I feel I knew you would not like this.

I feel like I'm learning you and you're a hater and atleast I don't know you well enough.

But I feel the answer is supposed to be cursed.

But I'm gonna go gift.

I think, for one, I have bad taste, so like I know that my feelings, but I know my feelings are wrong, right and so but for flavor chopstick, I'm thinking more coconuts, vanillas, you know, not so much fruity, and it's a nice little added kick.

Okay, I'll take it.

It's a gift and all wrong opposite reason that you said, Bridger, because I don't think anything should be flavorless that close to the mouth.

I think that's unnatural.

Oh interesting, there should always be a flavor on your life.

Are you an eater of toothpaste?

Like, let's you know that?

Well, you know I don't.

Oh my gosh, am I gonna actually say I don't swallow on a podcast.

But in all honesty, I truly believe it is such a gift because it's also like if you ever have like a lipsmacker on as an adult, it like takes you back to a happier time and place.

Well, you need to fix your present, this nostalgia cycle you're trapped in.

Wrong on a.

Lisha's wrong, You're wrong, everybody's I'm right.

I'm gonna flip good luck.

I think it's cemented into the ground.

I feel like we started this podcast as warm acquaintances.

Now we're leaving us cold strangers.

Well, we have one final thing to do.

We have to answer a listener question.

Okay, well, hopefully we can come together for these poor souls.

This is I said no emails people right into I said no gifts at gmail dot com, or they send a voice note sixty seconds long in a quiet room.

We help me answer listener question.

Absolutely, okay, this is hello, bridget and honored guests.

Okay, so yes, that's uh starting a mistake.

I hope that was a mistake or someone's already attacking me.

I will be visiting a friend from college who moved to Hawaii a few years ago, and would like to bring her a gift since she is hosting me.

She is a New Yorker, and I think it would be nice to bring her something that reminds her of home.

But I live in Boston, so I don't know what I could bring that would be of New York City quality slash expectations that I could find in Boston.

Do either of you have any thoughts?

Thanks for your help, best wishes, And that's from Katie.

This is gonna sound cliche, but bring her a rat.

Bring her a rat, take a live animal onto a plane, a subway rat or check it, yep, check it, check lug.

There we go.

Do they have rats in Boston?

Boston?

I feel like rats are like you know, the cockroaches of rodents, like they can arrived.

Almost anywhere does Hawaii have rats?

We could get that started.

We could get we can kind of ruin.

It's kind of like what it's kind of how rats initially got around, right.

They would a board the ships.

As gifts, people them as gifts.

It was it was like, you know, cinnamon or all these things.

Hey, America, how about some rats?

This exotic rats?

Yes, I think a rat is an interesting thing that could spread disease and lice and remind this person of why they shouldn't church New York City.

I'm assuming New York City because nothing else matters.

Why Katie's problem here is she's not a good enough friend.

Boston is not that far from New York.

Now, book the flight out of New York.

Uh huh drive down to New York or take the train, take the bus.

What's the bus that goes on fun bus?

That was like fifteen bucks?

And yeah, it's gorgeous and wonderful.

I can't remember if this was me or my brother.

You know, a story gets told enough that you're like, was that my memory or someone else's?

But happened to someone in my bloodline?

Where they were on the bus and then the person next to them like barfed into a plastic bag at the beginning of the ride, and so they just like sat next to for four hours.

And then there's that famous story of the person being decapitated on a bus that wasn't that buss.

Yeah, yeah, that was a tough one to hear.

But all that said, get on the bus, head to New York.

Get into the airport.

They've got a gift shop, the Hudson News, and you'll find all sorts of quality New York items.

Their bag of M and M's.

Classical T shirt that says I love and why.

I love n why uh you know?

A magazine foam finger statue of Liberty.

What is it like?

Headband all the.

Foamah, yeah, yeah, of course Lady Liberty's headband.

Yeah, she wearing a crown.

What does she got on there?

A cute visual memory.

I don't know what she looks like.

Cute gal with a cute head band.

Katie book the bus ride book, the Flight out of New York.

Don't write back in thank you.

We answered the question perfectly, Hawaii, thank you, thank us for the new rat the rat epidemic.

Do you feel closer to me your father away?

I feel so close to you, right now okay, I feel like we've healed and I feel like nothing can stop us.

Now let's take the city by storm.

Let's take the city by storm.

I've had such a wonderful time with you, a delightful time, and I've got two books that will now crowd my bookshelf.

I'm so happy, and I hope it drives your partner crazy.

It probably will.

I'm gathering, you know, I mean the amount of items I've got.

Oh yeah, it's wait, can you like, has there been a best and worst gift and or most expensive where you're like, whoa this person?

And it's inappropriate?

Let's see, that's a great question.

The two best gifts I've gotten are probably a car garbage can from John Milstein and this beautiful waffle maker from Cola Scola that's like a stand up shit.

It was one of these things that was like, oh, that's just a nice item.

Yeah, but I just it's like, did you get married?

I was getting married.

Yeah.

I think those are two.

I feel like somebody else has really gone out of their way to buy me a big thing, and I can't remember I carry I'll give you a bottle of dom Oh that's right.

Yeah, because you got some fancy people on this.

If they don't bring a good gift.

That I'll say.

Some of them, I'm like, I know, I know you're.

You got the budget, you have gotten bigger see a car garbage That tells me a lot about you.

That just because I would appreciate that, but I wouldn't be like, best gift is that is it?

Are you a messy car guy?

Are you a very clean car guy?

I'm a very clean I'm now a very clean car guy.

I always in my car was never like disgusting, but they were always just receipts gathering.

There are things that you're just like they just are gathering.

Yeah, exactly, not anymore but essentially spotless.

Yes, and then I've got a waffle maker.

Did you say worst?

Yeah?

I probably shouldn't say.

Oh.

The one I can say is Jamie Lee gave me a chewed up dog toy.

Okay, And that's the one thing that I can't remember.

She had a story about it, but that was the one item that I immediately threw away after the podcast, and her assistant told me that they wanted it back.

But then I got in touch with Jamie.

She's like, no of course I don't.

Oh my gosh, but those are I think those are the kind of spot I got.

You know, Paul Rubins was on the podcast and the things he gave me that's like cactus candy, Oh my god, things like that that I feel very fortunate, Jack so cool.

I just watched the Paul.

It was incredible.

He was like I was a little too young to appreciate the Peeney stuff, but it was like, Wow, what a damn genius.

Absolute genius.

And Peev's Big Adventure one of the all time great movies.

I have to him and I haven't seen it.

You haven't seen it?

Oh my god, right now I know it holds up perfect.

Okay, good.

It is such a fun, delightful movie.

How about his second movie with the Big One Kiss?

Wait, what's that?

The Big Phoebe's Big Top?

Oh well I never saw it?

Well did you watch that?

Yeah?

Because I forgot about that week.

The documentary they talk about how you like is like, let me hold like the longest kiss, and you're like, he really did it.

I think it's very funny.

I think that one is kind of universally thought as thought of as well.

Just don't watch it.

Yeah, that great.

Yeah, but big adventure, perfect movie.

Yes, well, now we've gotten into another thing because we healed and and we can continue to have conversation.

It's just flowing.

It's flowing.

There's so much to talk about all the time.

But I'll let you go.

Please unchain me.

Thank you for being.

Here, thank you for having me.

Let a treat.

The podcast is obviously over.

There's been you know, a little bit of a hint that was going to end, and hopefully you started turning the wheels in your mind as to what you'll do with the rest of your day.

I get the sense that you're sitting in your car avoiding going inside your own home.

Oh the dread.

It's just been mounting to.

Address what's inside.

It's just been idling, just filling the world with pollution.

But yeah, you've got to go and tell your partner it's over.

Yeah, it's time to end things.

Well, I guess that's the end of the show.

I love you, goodbye, I said no Gifts is an exactly right production.

Our senior producer is on Alisa Nelson, and our episodes are beautifully mixed by Ben Holliday.

The theme song is by Miracle Worker Amy Mann, and we couldn't do it without our booker, Patrick Cottner.

You must follow the show on Instagram.

At I said no gifts, that's where you're going to see pictures of all these wonderful gifts I'm getting.

And don't you want to see the gifts?

Livy?

Did you hear thun a man myself perfectly clear when you're I guess Tom, you gotta come to me empty and.

Said, no guests.

Your presence is persons enough.

I already had too much stuff, So how do

You dare to surbey me?