You're listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr.

Brenna Hicks, your source for centered and focused play therapy coaching.

Hi, I'm Dr.

Brenna Hicks, The Kid Counselor.

This is the Play Therapy Podcast where you get a master class in child-centered play therapy and practical support and application for your work with children and their families.

In today's episode, we are continuing in art of the session and we are almost ready to wrap up.

So next week will be our close out of the Art of the Session series.

And I hope that it has been a help to you.

I hope, I know many of you have reached out and said that it's been really grounding and really helpful.

So that's always been my goal, but I hope that it has encouraged and inspired you and given you more confidence in the playroom.

So we are going to talk about role play today.

And this is one of the most consistent struggles when I watch Play Session videos.

When we are tasked with.

Playing a role or assuming a role in the playroom.

And sometimes we're not even asked to be in a role, but the child includes us in play and therefore we are interacting based on what's happening.

We tend to go off the rails a little bit and so I think this is gonna be really helpful.

I want to make sure that we are remaining adherent even when we are playing a role.

And whether that's because the child has told us you're going to be fill in the blank, or they come up and they engage with us playfully in either scenario how we respond to that in a fully CCPT manner.

So one of the things that I've talked about before with the I wonder technique is we reserve I wonder statements for clinically relevant and necessary information.

And the really exciting news is role play is one of those moments.

So you absolutely can use an I wonder statement.

When you are not sure what you are supposed to do or say or how you're supposed to respond in a play session.

In other words, child says, let's be pirates.

All right, let me pause here because this is, I'm, I'm going off script rogue for a second, but it pops into my head and stream of consciousness is important.

So what often happens is the child says, let's be pirates, and we go, I wonder what we were supposed to do.

We so quickly react with an I wonder or a whisper technique, as soon as a child says, let's be pirates.

Here's a really helpful tip.

Reflect content and wait.

So kid says, let's be pirates.

Oh, we're gonna be pirates.

And wait We rush the pace of sessions often and not intentionally, not because we want it to be quicker, but because we just are ready for the next thing and if we sit in the pocket and we wait and we give the child a little bit of time and space.

The child will either go, come on.

And then you say, I wonder what I'm supposed to do next.

Or we wait and the child goes, all right, you're gonna go over there and you're gonna put that hat on and you're gonna have the treasure, and then I'm gonna go over here.

I promise if you give it some space, just wait a beat.

You will know exactly what should happen next.

We do not need to immediately respond with Tell me what I'm supposed to do.

Just reflect content and it will unfold.

OK, so now I'm, I'm back on target.

So the whisper and wonder techniques very important in those moments because we cannot just jump in.

This is another thing that I see consistently.

Child engages us in some way.

Child tells us, I'm gonna be the robber, you're gonna be the cop.

And we just roll with that.

Like, OK, you wanted me to be the cop, so I have to, and we kind of have these expectations of role that we're supposed to fulfill.

And I will never forget, I think I might have shared this on a podcast before.

I know I've talked about it in the coaching.

I will never forget, early on in my career, I had a little girl sit in front of the dollhouse and she got all the family people out and she said, OK, you're gonna be the mom and I'm gonna be the kid.

And I sat and waited.

I said, oh, OK, I'm the mom, you're the kid.

And I waited, and she goes, yeah, OK, so be the mom.

And I said, I don't know what the mom says.

And I will never ever forget what came out of her mouth because my connotation of a mom, I wasn't even a mother at that point, by the way, but my connotation of a mom and how a mom would talk to a child and treat a child and interact with a child was my own construct.

And it was about 180 degree difference than what she wanted me to say and do, because I said, I don't know what the mom says.

And she goes, Get in your room.

You're grounded.

You're not even getting dinner.

And I mean, she was yelling and angry and saying really aggressive things.

And I just thought I would have never been a mom that way.

But that's what she needed me to be.

She needed me to be the mom that she needed me to be.

So if I would have said, Morning, sweetie, are you ready for breakfast?

And however, I was going to paint mom.

It was not at all what she had in mind.

It was not what she needed.

It was not what she was working through.

This is why we cannot just jump into a role play because we have no idea and I'm gonna get to reactions in a minute, but let's talk about jumping in.

We can't make assumptions, we cannot assume or presume to know what exactly it means when a child just gives us the title of the role, like you're the queen.

You're the cop, you're the pirate, you're the turtle, you're the mom, you're the baby, you're the teacher, you're the principal.

We have no way to know in the child's mind in that moment.

And let's be real clear, that moment, it can be one thing and another moment it can be another thing.

So sometimes it's not a consistent role that they want us to play, sometimes the teachers mean, and then 3 weeks later the teacher's nice.

It doesn't necessarily remain static.

But we certainly can't presume or assume we know what that looks like.

Second of all, we do not want to ad lib.

So, when the child gives us the title of our role, you're the queen.

Oh, you want me to be the queen.

Yeah, so go sit on your throne.

Oh, I have a throne to sit on, so then we sit on the throne and we wait.

And then if we're given only a little bit, we're going to whisper or wonder.

If we're given a little bit more, we can go with what we're told to do or say, but we do not ad lib.

In other words, if the child says, order people around.

OK, well, that's not enough of a clue, because what are we ordering them to do?

And so order around.

A lot of times we would think, oh well, I, I was told I'm supposed to order people around.

So we might start telling servants to feed us grapes and fan us with palm fronds.

I don't know.

I guess that's more like Egyptian, but you know, we might have this construct in our head of like, oh, well, I want people ordering to, you know, serve me.

What if it was order someone around to Go to the knight's quarters and get the horses ready and we're gonna have a battle, and that's a totally different royal position, royal job.

So, we can't ad lib, we have to say, oh, I'm supposed to order people around.

I wonder who I'm ordering around.

The The stable boy.

Oh, I wonder what I say to him.

OK, and you can see you're always getting a specific prompt.

You don't just want to kind of go with where you think the child's play is taking you.

And then finally, you do not want to react, and I think this one might be the the the trickiest of all, because we might master not assuming and we might master not adlibbing, but reacting is a little bit harder.

So often when we are in a role, and or the child is engaging with us.

We react to what's happening.

Let me share an example, child puts a puppet on his or her hand.

And comes up and with the mouth of the puppet wraps the mouth around your arm.

Often, actually, probably most of the time.

Therapists go, oh my goodness, it's biting me, oh, it's eating my arm.

All right, well, that might be the case, or it might be far more helpful to say.

oo, it's around my arm.

What if it's Kissing you.

What if it's hugging you?

What if it's something we have no way to know unless the child gives us the word.

If the child comes up and says, watch this, it's gonna eat your arm off.

Well then absolutely we would follow that metaphor and we would reflect that content.

It's eating my arm off, but notice even then we're not reacting.

Because we're prone if we get bitten or stabbed or shot or punched or eaten or whatever, whatever the scenario is we tend to exaggerate our response.

I don't know if a child walks up with a knife and stabs me in the neck.

Y'all have those retractable knives in your playroom where they can walk up and it literally looks like they stabbed you because the hilt goes all the way to your skin.

Those are amazing, by the way.

But if you have one of those and you get stabbed in the neck.

You can say, oh, the knife's in my neck.

But are you supposed to be crying in pain?

Are you supposed to be dead?

Are you supposed to be gushing blood?

Are you supposed to be moaning?

Are you supposed to be stoic?

Are you supposed to just sit there?

Are you supposed to be shocked?

Are you supposed to be scared?

We don't know.

So your most helpful strategy is to be calm and to be factual, and to be accurate in your acknowledgement of what has happened.

No reaction.

You get shot with a dart gun.

So many therapists pretend to keel over and die.

I mean, like, seriously, eyes rolled back, tongue hanging out, and like arms open wide and they like splay back across the chair.

Did the child say, Ha, I killed you.

If not, you don't know whether or not that bullet, you might be invincible, you might have superpowers, you might have immediate healing, you might have bulletproof armor on, you might be an armadillo and bullets can't go through your shell.

You might, who knows.

The child, but no one else.

So therefore, if the child doesn't say, Ha, you're dead, then you can't say, Oh, I'm dead.

You shot me.

And here's the other thing, even if the child says, you're dead, we don't roll our eyes and stick out our tongue and splay backwards with our arms open, we go, Oh, I'm dead, and we wait.

Because we don't know what the reaction is supposed to be, and here's the beauty of this.

If you are adherent to this, if you are consistent with this, you just calmly, factually, accurately acknowledge what has happened.

Oh, it's around my arm back to the puppet.

The knife's in my neck, back to the stabbing.

Oh, you shot me.

If you just acknowledge what happens, the child learns that if they need you to react, if they need you to say or do or feel something, they'll tell you.

You won't even have to whisper and wonder at some point because they will become so accustomed to giving you the cues and the prompt because they know that you're not going to react.

And here's why this is so important.

I don't, I don't want to belabor this if you don't understand the value of why we're talking about this.

Kids work on what they need to work on.

And every single thing they do in their play has meaning and significance and value.

So the child has this train of thought going where they need ultimate power and they need ultimate control, and they're going to kill people because that's the most powerful thing.

If you can take someone's life, you are absolutely the most powerful.

And so there's this whole power control thing going on.

And you Get stabbed in the neck and you go, oh my gosh, that's funny, you just stabbed me in the neck.

That does not fit at all with the narrative that was going on in the child's head.

And we have to be really careful about allowing that to play out the way the child needs and wants it to, and that's why we don't assume or react or ad lib because the second we do, we run the risk of it taking the play in a different direction, #1, #2, distracting the child from what they're actually working on, or number 3, interfering with the work that's being done.

The child will always cue you if you don't make a judgment call on your own.

And the longer you do it, the more kids learn, they have to give you prompts.

So more often than not, now in play sessions, something will happen and the kid will go, say this, do this, pick that up, go over there, go, oh no.

Uh, when I stab you, you're really scared.

They've learned because I'm so neutral that they are going to give me the response that they want me to have.

That is CCPT.

That is child centeredness.

That is being with.

I'm never going to do anything that might derail if I can help it.

what the child needs to do.

That's why role play is so important.

And I mean, this extends even to simpler things like when someone gives you food that they made for you.

They do a whole lot of nurturing and caregiving play and they cook food, and they do a plate for you, and they bring it over to you and they say, eat it.

Well, you're not supposed to go, mm, it's delicious, it's so good.

What if it has arsenic in it?

What if it was made with garbage?

What if it has rotten milk in it?

You have no way to know what your response is supposed to be.

So you take a bite and you say, hm, I'm eating the food you made.

And you wait.

Because they might go, yeah, tell me that it's amazing, or they might go, do you taste the soap that I put in it?

It's gross, isn't it?

And then you can go, oh, it's gross, there's soap in it.

But we're always waiting for the prompt.

Similarly, with when a child tells you something, and this isn't really role play, but this goes along the same vein.

When a child tells you something, it's my birthday this weekend.

We're prone to go, oh my gosh, it's your birthday.

That's so exciting.

That's assumptive, it's presumptive, it's reactive.

What if that kid for 3 years in a row, no one's gotten them one present for their birthday?

What if last year everyone forgot about their birthday?

What if their birthdays this weekend and they're scared to death that mom's not gonna show up to the party?

We have no way to know what is going on when a child tells us something, so reflect content neutrally, your birthdays this weekend.

And wait If they need to process it, if they want you to know feelings and deeper stuff, they'll let you see it.

If they don't, you want to communicate that you heard them and that you're listening and that you understand, but you certainly don't want to assume and react.

Because that's our way of leading and guiding what happens inadvertently, and we want to make sure that we caution against that.

So I hope that that is helpful.

We are going to wrap up Art of the Session series next week.

Really looking forward to that, and then we'll dive into something new.

We're gonna do some one-off topics for a little bit as kind of a palette cleanser, if you will.

And reminder, we are meeting in Houston on October 11th.

So if you are able to be there, please RSVP in the show notes so that I have a headcount.

I'm really looking forward to that.

So many of you have already signed up, so I think it's going to be so much fun.

I love y'all.

We'll talk again soon.

Bye.

Thank you for listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr.

Brenna Hicks.

For more episodes and resources, please go to www.playtherapypodcast.com.