You're listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr.

Brenna Hicks, your source for centered and focused play therapy coaching.

Hi, I'm Dr.

Brenna Hicks, The Kid Counselor.

This is the Play Therapy Podcast where you get a master class in child-centered play therapy and practical support and application for your work with children and their families.

In today's episode, I'm answering a question from Emily in North Carolina.

Actually, I'm answering several questions from Emily in North Carolina.

And so apparently, since she started listening to the Play Therapy Podcast, she's had an ongoing list of questions on her phone.

And she has a Google doc called Brenna Questions.

So I've been given several in this email from the Google doc of Brenna questions.

I love y'all.

I, I just want you to know so many of you say that you have these little things related to me in your life.

Like I have a list of Brenna questions or I have like what would Brenna say?

or I'm always thinking about the why matters because you say it or whatever.

I actually, y'all, I had an, I didn't mean to do that, but it's about y'all.

I had an Australian in the Collective this week.

Quote the word y'all in her post, like, I wanted y'all to know.

And I was like, look at you trying to speak like an American because of me.

And not all Americans say y'all, but I'm a Southern girl through and through, so that's how it goes.

Anyway, I just wanted to let you know, seriously, I appreciate you all so much.

I value you so much.

I love you all so much.

It's so fun to connect with you and thank you for your love for me and your commitment to kids and spending so much time with this podcast.

I don't have the opportunity to do something like this if you all don't want to listen.

So hope you know that I mean it when I say I love you.

So I'm going to read parts of Emily's email.

We'll dive into three questions.

One on what to say when a child wants to know why they come to see you.

Secondly, games for older kids and if they are games that questions are asked in the game, how do you handle that?

And then third, what about when an older kid wants to know things about you personally?

Those are the topics we're gonna cover today.

So Emily, thanks for the question.

All right, so the first question, what do you recommend for parents to say to kids if they ask why or why their sibling goes to see you?

What do you tell kids if they ask that?

I think you may have mentioned this somewhere, but I can't find it.

I tell parents to introduce the idea of coming to me with, I met someone named as Emily.

She has a room filled with lots of toys and you're gonna go play with her for an hour.

However, if kids ask why they're going to come play with me, I'm not sure what to recommend that parents say.

I also have families where siblings ask why their sibling gets to come play with me, but they don't.

So let's stop there.

All right, so Emily, your intro and what you give as the script for what parents can say to their child, that's a really helpful script.

I met with someone named Miss Brenna.

I like her.

I think you're going to like her too.

She has a room full of toys and you're gonna get to go play with her for an hour each week.

That is our standard script for when we introduce to a child what CCPT is all about in a very age appropriate and nontherapeutic way.

That's the script that we give parents to say to their children.

So to answer the question, what about if a child asks you why they come to see you and that will happen quite often, especially if they are trying to normalize their experience, especially if they are trying to make sense of the whole process.

And when that happens, my standard response is.

Most kids like to be able to be in charge for an hour each week.

And your parents and I both thought that you would like getting to come here and be in charge.

And that is 99% of the time enough to satisfy that kind of question because what kid says, no, I don't want to be in charge.

So that's a really helpful workaround.

We thought your parents and I both thought that you would enjoy having an hour each week where you get to be in charge and you get to decide what happens.

And that is usually a satisfactory answer.

As far as if a sibling says, why do they play with you and I don't, I typically say, oh, you really wish that you could come back and play too.

Right now I'm playing with so and so, but maybe at some point I might be able to play with you.

And I just leave it very open ended like that.

And there have been times when on the termination phase of working with a sibling.

The other sibling has come back for a small portion of the time.

If they are not going to begin work with me individually, many families will say, I'm gonna start with this child, and then when we're done with this one, I'd like you to see my other child as well.

So oftentimes I'm able to say, I am gonna get to play with you.

I'm gonna play with so and so for now, but then when they're done, I'm gonna play with you as well.

So if I'm able to truthfully say that, that's typically my response.

But if I know that it is not likely that we're going to transition to the other sibling.

Then as with my current client's permission and with the parent's permission, we devote a few minutes of one of those final sessions to have the other sibling come back for a few minutes and spend a little bit of time in the playroom, and that's something that they look forward to.

OK, so for the second question, you mentioned having games like would you rather for older kids?

I'm not sure if you also recommended the ungame.

I don't.

I, well, I'm not so that I don't recommend it.

I just don't have that in my playroom.

How do you explain to kids that only they will be answering the would you rather questions and you will not?

I actually do not tell them that.

So I'm very careful with letting the child lead and if the child says that they also want me to answer the questions.

Then I give the simplest briefest.

Most factual and age appropriate answer that I can give.

So let's say the question is, would you rather jump into a bathtub full of jello or jump into a bathtub full of pudding?

Typically you can.

Feign that you're having a hard time making the decision and the child will jump in and tell you their choice.

So let me explain what that would look like.

So the question is, would you rather go into a tub full of jello or pudding?

And I would go, Oh my goodness.

Well, pudding would be thicker and it might be harder to get in and out of.

Jello would be squishy and cold, so that might feel kind of weird.

Oh my goodness, I don't know.

I don't know which one I would rather be in.

And if you talk about the question long enough, a lot of times kids will say, Oh, I would pick pudding.

And then you, you go, Oh, you would choose pudding.

I might choose pudding too.

So you can typically kind of talk about the answer for many of the questions.

Every once in a while, the kid's like, so what's your answer?

And at that point, I typically say, oh gosh, I think that's probably a tie, but if I had to pick, I might say maybe jello.

And it's, it's a very brief, simple answer, because if the child is expecting an answer, we want to honor the fact that we're taking turns in a game.

Often kids, even when it's your question, they will answer your question.

So if you are a wordsmith enough and you stall long enough and you talk about the answer long enough, oftentimes kids will answer their questions and your questions, and then you can just echo the answer that they've provided.

So it's kind of a a dialogue game that you play in scenarios like that, but I actually do not tell a child that I will not answer the questions.

I let that unfold per kid, per session.

Because sometimes kids will answer every question themselves, sometimes kids will answer the question and then say, well, what would you answer?

And then sometimes kids are gonna say, we're gonna take turns.

It really just depends and it's kind of a case by case basis for that one.

And then 3rd question.

How do you respond when a child is asking questions because they want to connect with you?

I know you addressed this, and you said basically reflect back as much as possible.

If they stop asking, the reflection got to the heart of what they needed.

Yes, we've talked about that before.

Then if they keep asking after multiple reflections, you will usually answer.

I have a pre-teen who asks a lot of questions about me because she is so interested in other people and loves to connect.

She's talkative and a way that she connects is through conversation.

She also is a people pleaser and puts aside her own preferences to do what's convenient for others.

This is tricky for me because she asks lots of questions as a way to try to connect.

She frequently asks things like where did I go to school?

do I have kids?

What's my favorite food or color?

What restaurant?

do I like?

I reflect back something like you're curious what things I like, but I don't like to answer because I don't want to give an impression that the things I like are the right things or open it up for her to make it about pleasing me.

However, she gets frustrated when I reflect the question back to her, understandably, and don't give an answer.

It almost feels like when I reflect back and she gets frustrated, it breaks the connection.

Usually yes.

It's as if she feels like I'm not meeting her where she is, like I'm being stubborn and withholding, as if, quote, I see it's important to you to connect in this way, but I'm not going to do it, end quote.

How can I preserve the connection but also not just answer a bunch of questions about myself and give her an invitation to please me or make it about me?

I know part of the issue is that she's working on building up tolerance for a relationship where she's not focusing completely on the other person.

And working on being able to have her own preferences, her own sense of self, her own thoughts, feelings, and be OK with it, but I also don't want it to seem as if I'm withholding.

Or trying to avoid connection or as if I don't see her need and desire to connect to people.

OK, and Emily, I think it's really interesting that you asked this question in the way in which you did because you just basically addressed the considerations.

So thank you on everyone's behalf for really kind of unpacking why this matters because.

There is something to be said for we don't want the session to become about us.

We don't want the focus to be on ourselves.

We don't want to do anything or say anything that's going to be a hindrance or a distraction from the child's work.

We don't want to provide conversation and dialogue if the child is not willing and able to do that.

So all of those things are some are things that we need to be mindful of.

However, you also hit the nail on the head when you said, I feel like sometimes I'm inadvertently communicating.

I see it's important to you to connect, but I'm not going to do it.

It almost becomes a reverse power struggle.

I actually had one of my coaching participants label it as that, and I, and I really have valued that phrase because when a child is wanting an answer from you, it usually has a sense of power and control element to it.

When they will not let it go and they're not satisfied with reflections and returning responsibility, when they really, really want you to answer, whether it's for relationship connection, or otherwise, there's an element of power and control.

I'm in charge.

I'm asking you to answer this question, so answer it.

And then when we refuse, it almost becomes a reverse power struggle, where now we are kind of drawing the line in the sand and digging our heels in and saying, I will not answer this question.

And I actually think that it is damaging to the relationship.

I think it can absolutely be a rupture or a fracture, and it's something where we're not actually acknowledging the child's needs.

Now, we certainly don't want to go on a 5 minute dialogue about I went to this school and then I went to this school and then I did this and then my, the mascot here was this and this one was called this, but that was in Arizona.

Now I live here.

That's never the approach that we take.

But if a kid says, where did you go to school?

I mean, my immediate answer would be if I decide that it is important to answer the question, I'll get to that in just a second because we have to filter the why.

I've talked about this in earlier podcast, but it's helpful to repeat it.

We have to kind of get to the heart of why the child is asking.

And so if I determine that this is a question that the child needs me to answer for a variety of reasons, my immediate answer would be, oh my goodness, I've gone to lots of schools.

That is a truthful answer, but it is a non-answer.

In other words, what school did you go to?

I'm answering the question.

I'm just not saying Belcher Elementary School.

I'm just not saying Safety Harbor Middle School.

I'm saying, oh my goodness, I've gone to lots of schools.

And then the child might say, yeah, but like what was the name of your high school?

Oh, Palm Harbor University.

OK, now, here's what I mean by filter down to the why, because if it is for a relationship or connection, Reflect back several times and if they don't let it go, they really need and want an answer from you.

Give age appropriate, brief, clear responses, and then immediately turn it back to the child.

So, I went to Palm Harbor University High School.

You were curious about where I went to high school.

So you give an answer and you immediately go back to a reflection of content, to a reflection of feeling.

You pivot back immediately and put the focus back on the child.

You were curious about where I went to school.

Oh, you were wondering about where I went to school.

You're always going to immediately put it back on the child.

And what you're doing in that is determining, OK, you know what, this child really wants this information and and here's what's fascinating.

Usually you will understand why once you answer.

So if a child says, I think I shared this on an episode before, I had a kid that was like, do you have brothers or sisters?

Now, I'd been working with this kid for a really long time.

And he's a twin.

And I, he and his twin brother both saw me.

They're very, very close, but they're very dissimilar in personality.

So they're, they have that like twin bond where they are kind of like the same person in two different bodies, but then they're actually very different people because they have different personalities and likes and and bents and whatever.

So really fascinating.

I love working with twins, but that's for another discussion.

So he was like, do you have siblings?

And I'd been with this kid long enough, he is never satisfied with a non-answer.

So you learn patterns of behavior with your kids too, and you learn what kids need from you.

If you're fully attuned and you're fully present and you are CCPT.

You learn your kids and you learn their nuances and and their needs, their desires, all of those things.

This kid needed an answer and I knew there was purpose in the question.

He wasn't a kid that asked questions just to ask them.

His was not a relational or connection need.

His was, I'm bringing this up and I'm asking you because I want to know if you're gonna be able to understand what I'm about to tell you.

So he said, do you have siblings?

And I said, yes.

Now notice, I could have elaborated a whole lot more.

I could have said his name.

I could have said that I'm older than him.

I could have said I had a brother.

I could have said I don't have sisters.

I could have said whatever.

I, I, all I said was, yes.

And then he goes, a brother or a sister?

I said a brother.

And I said, you have a brother and a sister, because he has an older, they have an older sister, the twin boys.

So I said, you have a brother and a sister.

Note that I immediately put it back on him, and he goes, yeah, aren't brothers annoying?

And then ranted for five minutes about his twin.

And I know this kid well enough to know that if he asked me, do you have siblings, do you have a brother?

What was going to come up was about his own brother.

I knew it.

You need to trust your clinical gut, you need to understand where the kid is and what they're going to need or want from you.

And that's a moment where I answered the question because he needed me to.

He wanted to know if I could understand what it's like to have an annoying brother.

And as a matter of fact, I can.

Sorry, Brandon.

3 years younger than me, you know, older sister or brother.

I, I do know what it's like to have an annoying brother.

Not so much anymore.

We're actually really close, really good friends.

I love him dearly.

But when I was a kid, I used to think he was annoying frequently.

So there was a connection point that was made, but it was, are you gonna be able to relate to what I need to vent about?

So often when we are asked questions, if we get to the root, it will help us understand what the child needs and therefore our response.

Sometimes you can return responsibility, sometimes you can reflect feelings, sometimes you can reflect content and they'll let you off the hook.

Other times they won't.

But if we refuse to answer when a child really wants an answer, when we could just give a very simple and brief response.

What school did you go to?

Oh my goodness, I went to lots of schools.

It makes it easier for the flow of the session, because it's actually very interruptive for a child to feel like they can't move forward because you're refusing to engage in dialogue with them.

So I, Emily, encourage you to give answers when you think that it's important and needed for the child.

And then you don't have to have that fight where that reverse power struggle or inverse power struggle is taking place.

So I hope that is helpful for all of you.

Thank you so much, Emily, for those questions.

I feel like those were, were really impactful because we all have every single one of those scenarios.

Those are very common considerations that that we're always kind of trying to adjust.

So I appreciate your email.

If y'all would like to email me, I'd love to hear from you, brenna@thekidcounselor.com.

Have a great week.

We'll talk again soon.

Bye.

Thank you for listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr.

Brenna Hicks.

For more episodes and resources, please go to www.playtherapypodcast.com.