Y'all know them.

Y'all have followed them.

Lord knows y'all followed them.

Now tonight we are gonna be talking to Anya Cane and Kevin Greenley from Murder Sheets.

Y'all know who I'm talking about, because they have done something I'm not even sure I know a word because I ain't a writer.

They are now and it is kind of knocking me out because they have never written a book before.

But not only have they've done it, they've done it magnificently, and they've done it as a couple.

Y'all know, good and well.

Sometimes it is hard to pick a Christmas tree with a spouse, much less to side a book title.

How the chapters are going to go, how the story's gonna unfold.

That's hard.

That's difficult work right there.

So let's bring them in and figure out how they got this deal done.

Kevin, Anya, how are you welcome?

Welcome, Welcome back to Zone seven.

We are so excited to be here, and thank you so much for having us.

We really appreciate it, love the work you do, and it's an honor.

I just want to set the record straight if people, for some reason did not hear the first episode y'all did with me here on Zone seven.

So I just want to tell people, let's talk about your book, Shadow of the Bridge, And then you have a subtitle that I think is so powerful, the del Phi Murders, a dark side of the American Heartland.

You couldn't have hit that more accurate.

When this trial was going on.

Some of the stuff y'all heard about was absolutely accurate.

People were having a fight for a seat, the judge wasn't having it.

The courtroom was tiny.

They didn't get back room breaks, you didn't hardly get a lunch break.

You just everything was I mean, it was almost surreal when I got there and I thought all of these rumors, all these crazy things are true.

And the courtroom was so tiny, y'all that if there were any haters, you were two feet from them.

I mean, you weren't but eight feet from the accused.

And then his family was sitting right there.

You had the victim's family not even a foot from you.

It was really an odd layout to me.

Would y'all agree with that?

Yes?

I think you just summed it up really well.

And I think you know you had to be almost constantly scanning for threats, whether it was like maybe a fight's going to breakout, or it's just really cold out, or you're really hungry.

So it kind of put you in a weird Hunger Games esque sort of mindset.

Sure, and when I say no bathroom breaks, I'm not kidding.

If you all of a sudden had to go, there was no re entry, you just lost half a day.

Well, fortunately there were two of you.

For that, to me, it would make it difficult because you know, any marriage, it's never fifty to fifty.

Sometimes somebody has the line's share of whatever load is happening right now, right But y'all had to divide and conquer and divide and conquer and somehow come back together.

And you were I mean, Anya, I saw your notebook one day and I'm like, oh no, I mean I thought that looks like a crazy person.

I mean, you're writing down every single word.

I don't know if you knew shorthand or not, but I just knew page after page because you know how Kevin, you know what I'm talking about.

When you sit next to somebody in class that you know is smarter than you, and they're like on the third or fourth page of notes and you've only written a couple of things down.

Feel that way anytime that's Kevin.

Okay, marriage, I.

Feel that way about both of you because I felt like I've only written a couple of things down.

How is she on her fifth page of notes?

Like, I'm clearly missing something?

But I couldn't have written that all down anyway.

But here's what I thought was amazing.

Number One, Kevin is an attorney and Anya you are a journalist, so with research skills, you both have it, even if it's from a different avenue.

I mean, that's how y'all met.

So y'all had that in sync already, which I thought was fabulous.

But here's the part people may not know.

In this business, whether it's writing a book or doing a podcast or getting on TV, whatever it is, there is some competition involved, and some people are cut through about it.

Y'all were so kind and so gracious and helped so many people that other folks don't know about.

Y'all help me.

Hear me and my sister, we didn't even know what was up.

We didn't know where to stand, we didn't know where the line start and ended.

We didn't know how to take a break, we didn't know where our cell phones went and y'all were fabulous about that.

I know y'all were all so good to Susan Hendricks and other folks.

I know it for a fact.

I know what the Prosecutor's podcast thanks of y'all and other people.

And I just think that speaks to who y'all are as a couple and individuals more than anything.

Thank you.

That means a lot, I mean it, And you know what it was.

You guys were so nice to us too.

And I'm just gonna say Susan Hendrix probably saved us from getting a frost bright like several times over.

Yeah, she's a doll.

She was like, let's get blankets.

It was like, yeah, y'all like the heat blankets.

I would go up with on Everest with that woman because she knows what she's doing.

But no, she's a doll and she is the same way.

But I'm saying that there was just this tight knit group, like I already felt, you know, just this kinship with Kelsey, and I just felt like I needed to be there for her, you know what I mean, you just just show up.

There was nothing I could do.

I couldn't make anything better, but just know what I, Hey, I'm here, I'll take you to dinner kind of thing.

Well, I just saw y'all help person after a person after person, so I just thought that was super cool.

I just want to say that I don't know if y'all you.

Know, it's very nice of you to say.

And you know, at the end of the day, you mentioned Kelsey, And at the end of the day, it really is about the families, and it's about the girls, and it's about their legacies and it's about honoring that.

And so it's not about us trying to get an exclusive or cut people out.

If there's people there who care about the girls and the families, we want to help them so they have the tools to share the truth and to honor these girls.

Yeah, and I'm going to say this, like it was really easy to do when we were kind of modeling after people like Kelsey and her family.

They were so kind and patient with people there.

I think we've talked about this on the show, but they were giving people food, and I was like, people should be taking care of you, and you're taking care of everybody else, you know, And I'm like, Becky Patty's given everyone this, like, you know, banana bread, and I told her at some point, I was like, Becky, you're a better woman than I.

I would have been throwing that banana bread at some of these jerks.

And she was like, well, you know, I'm just going to give food to people who are hungry.

And I'm like, that's amazing.

So we want like when we had that as sort of an inspiration, it was it became easier to try to lead with some compassion and kindness.

I mean, I don't know, because I do feel like most of the people there, such as yourself, it was so nice to meet your sister.

She was awesome.

Such as yourself, and then other people who visited, they just wanted the truth.

And it's like we all got to kind of stick together a little bit because it's a difficult situation.

It was difficult, and I agree with you, Becky, Patty was the standard.

I've never seen anything like it.

And I know Charlene and I you know, we laughed about it, and I'm like, oh, I might have been passing out some muffins, but they would have had some poison in it, Like what do you talk about?

I mean, she was just beyond gracious and again treated everybody as best she could, which was crazy.

Y'all moved there.

I mean, your whole lives were turned upside down.

And I can remember at one point, Annie, you were saying you were so exhausted.

But every night you had to type up your notes, You had to get things in order, you had to get ready to get back in line to do it all again.

And you know, for y'all to keep up with just your day to day, I mean you had other emails, you had other responsibilities, you had bills, you had a house, you had a life, you had family members.

That's a lot to put on old to do what you did every day for seventeen hours a day, it was tough.

And we were lucky we had people in our lives who understood what we needed to do, so they weren't, you know, offended when we sort of disappeared for a month.

The saddest thing was we didn't get to spend we always are hanging out with our dog Annie.

She's a great dog, and we had to, you know, she had to spend a lot of time apart from us, and I don't know, I was really worried at first, but I think she had a blast with her sort of staycation.

So I ended up kind of being offended.

It's like, don't you miss us.

It's like, no, I'm having all the treats.

It's like okay, but that was stressful.

I think being away from your dog would be probably the most difficult.

Yeah, but she didn't care at all.

So that's good.

Feel a little bit.

That's good.

Now.

Y'all started writing the book while the trial was going on.

Is that right?

Yeah, No, that's that's what we mean.

We were writing throughout we so it's we Actually we had I would say, like a draft before the trial, but we wrote very rough, very rough.

We knew, hey, like probably half of this is going to turn out to be wrong or need to be scrapped, so we had something very rough, tried to add to it during trial, but really wrote the bulk of it after trial.

Is that fair to say, Kevin?

That is fair to say because there was a gag order in place.

I was going to ask you about that, Kevin, how difficult that was because there's folks that are paramount you can't interview.

That's right, and the people on the prosecution law enforcement side, the families, they took that gag order very very seriously.

And they did not talk to us until after the gag order was lifted, which was at the end of December, and we had to deliver the book at the end of January.

Wow, that's a lot of work really quick.

Oh yeah, it was like a power host.

We were working.

How long a day were we working after that January?

We were working seventeen to eighteen hours a day.

Yeah, it was intense.

Yeah, I figured it had to be seventeen it had to be.

Now again, as a married couple, how did y'all I'm sure there were no arguments or fights about me, of course, No, of course not.

I mean, I can't even imagine what you would argue about.

So even from the title who kind of well, I don't know not who.

But how did y'all decide who was going to do what and how the job was divided up?

Or did y'all just do everything together at the same time.

So you know what you said earlier about trying to divide and conquer.

I think that's what smart people would do.

I don't know whether it's codependency or we were just like relying on each other during the trial.

Kevin and I didn't do that as much as we probably could or even should have.

You know, we talked a lot about it.

Hey maybe I'll go one day, you go the next day, and we'll kind of you know, one person can sleeve, one person can go to trial.

But we were so stressed we kind of just never really separated that much except for a couple of occasions, and that's kind of been the whole way we've worked through the And I think you're asking about the title.

So I was really happy about this because the cover of the book is actually you know, a photograph that Kevin took, and the title is what I came up with because I sort of felt like, you know, shadow of the Bridge.

I mean, it all centers upon what happened on this bridge and it kind of cast everything into shadow for all these years to come.

So I kind of felt and like the girls were, you know, forced down the hill kind of into this shadowy area.

It's just kind of so that was something we kind of teamed up on and we both kind of got something on the cover there.

And then we sat down very early on in the process, i think right after the trial, and we started having conversations about how to organize the book because, as you well, know this is a very very comple Cadences story.

And so very complicated.

Yeah, we had to figure out how to tell it, which includes what do we want to leave out, what do we have to include, what do we stress?

And we developed a very very rough outline, and then we would each take different sections of it and write a rough draft of that section, and then we kind of change them and revise each other's word.

Yeah, and I'm gonna tell her this and Kevin's going to kill me, probably, But I remember there was this one day where it was like, Okay, I'm going to look at Kevin's section two and you kind of had left it more in a rough draft form, and I was like, oh my god, are you kidding me?

And then I looked at and I was like, I am like how why is this happening?

And then I look at his section like five or whatever, and I was like, this is brilliant.

So I was laughing.

We were laughing.

Afterwards.

I was like, yeah, I was about to kind of yell at you about section two, but second five so good.

I can't be mad the rest of your marriage anytime she says anything crazy to go hey, section five.

Section five, Okay, so during the trial before trial happened, we had a conversation where we were like, you know, because you know, we get along very well, but it's not like we fight a lot.

But we knew our tensions were going to be really high and it was going to be stressful.

So we said, let's just try to be really really patient with one another.

If someone's being kind of snippy, let it go.

If someone's being kind of annoying, just let it go.

Like let's just kind of roll with it.

And we were able to really hold to that I think treaty, and it was great.

And the one time and this was I just thought the funniest thing.

You know.

We were spending a lot of time in Monticello, which is a city in White County that's pretty near Delphi, and that's where we were staying for a lot of it.

But we were in this I think it was a McDonald's and we were getting into we were getting into an argument about something like not yelling at a McDonald's, but like just kind of like, oh, come on, you know, like that kind of thing.

And I remember like punching in this like the chicken nuggets order onto the Kiosk screen and being like, oh, you know, just aggravating each other.

And then one of our sources called and we talked to them quickly, and then we were like, wait, what were we even fighting about.

We didn't even remember, so we were just kind of laughed about it because we were like that whatever it was was obviously not very sure.

Well, I'm going to tell you if y'all can survive this, because there were days y'all were cold, you were sleep deprived, you were hungry.

You couldn't just take a break when you wanted to.

You had to stay in that courtroom.

You had to stay silent.

You know, you didn't have your phone, you didn't have your dog.

So that's a testament it should be easy straight now, honey.

That's what And that's what I think it was weird because when we that was difficult.

I think it was harder when we came back eventually because it was like, we want to just be back to normal, and it took a while, so there was a learning curve.

So I think that was where you know, we need to stop only working or only talking about work, or like we can't let every conversation just become Delphi, which is what it had been for a while and kind of like, hey, let's go out and do activities that are non crime related.

That's where it became important for us to try to regain some distance where we can work together, but then also not let work dominate our lives.

That's really smart.

And I think it's smart that y'all had these things in place before you really started, because it could have been real different.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, gosh, you know, I'm we've had a lot of practice communicating.

Yeah, and I had I had this nightmarish memory.

I remember reading an article where Jimmy Carter of all people, talked about the process of writing a book with his wife, and of course they had famously a wonderful marriage, and it was like, that's the closest we ever came to divorce.

Really weirdly, we probably we gotten more annoyed with each other writing a book than actually being a trial.

I think that because we had more energy to be annoyed.

But I think we eventually The thing is, I am like, so I throw in way too many details, I missing details.

I'm throwing everything at you to the point where it's slowing everything down.

And then Kevin takes too much stuff out he cuts too much, and it's like, wait, this doesn't even mean anything anymore because we have no idea what we're talking about here.

So, you know, we had to find a balance between that, and I hope we achieved that, but it was a situation where it was kind of we are dealing with slightly different writing styles and writing like Ethos, so it was important to kind of without getting mad, without making it personal, without getting upset, just figure out how do we give each other feedback and balance it.

And I think we achieved that.

It's beautifully done.

And I'm going to tell you you know how they said the Beatles wrote like John would write something and then Paul would write something, and they would blend it.

I can't even tail where it's blended.

It's just y'all.

I think it is beautifully done.

That's a wonderful thing.

So yet we were really worried it would sound like two different people like.

Up here's Anya to get really, you know, overly sentimental about something, and then up Kevin's gonna give some legal jargon.

You know, that was what we were worried about.

I think it is so just fluid.

It is fantastic, Like even the way you handled odinism.

Talk a little bit about that, like who first broached Hey, should we?

Should we not?

Is it relevant?

Is it not relevant?

Yeah?

No, that's a great question because we you know, I think we did an outline.

We were like, wow, we're putting a lot into odinism right now.

And I think the way we viewed odinism is you can't tell the story without getting into it in some level, but that you know, we don't necessarily want to overinflate its importance either, And we also didn't want to do anything where it was almost like trying to you know, how do I say this like whitewashing, Like we didn't want to put it in there as like, oh, this is a normal theory that made a lot of sense, you know, but we also didn't want to necessarily like write it off.

So I think we tried to balance that and we looked at it as you know, this is something that the defense of Richard Allen, for whether or not people agree with this or not, they went all out on and as a result, you have to at least look at it, and in fairness, the only reason the defense went all out and it is because you know, at some point investigators looked into it and documented their findings, so they were coming from it was coming from discovery, So we wanted to look at it, but we wanted to apply a more critical lens to it.

Then.

I think it's gotten in a lot of mainstream media outlets where you know, understandably, you're a reporter, you got a five o'clock deadline, the defense just filed this wild thing, and you're thinking, hey, they're the defense attorneys.

It must be some you know, there must be some level of credibility here.

Let's oh and you know, I think they're running with it, but they're not necessarily like looking into it as much as we did and as much as others did.

Actually, not just us, but I think people who are more in the new media actually were a little bit more skeptical at some of this over time because they were able to really go in and say, well, they're saying this, but I'm not so sure, but yeah, I don't know.

So that's kind of where we were coming from it.

We didn't want to just erase it, but we also didn't want to just present it as like kind of you know, we wanted to kind of just put the facts out there.

No.

I think that was the best way to do it, because if you didn't have it, people would use that is see, they didn't even want to talk about it.

They know better, and I know, like Kevin for me, I was on Nancy Grace that week that all that came out, and she's like, I want you to weigh in on Odinism, and I'm like, girl, I've never heard of it.

I think I know who odin was kind of sort of, but I don't have any idea what this would look like like whatever they're proposing occurred.

Well, every single expert that I knew didn't know anything about it.

So that's when I started to craft this ain't this ain't it If nobody I know has ever heard of it, nobody's responded to it, nobody's ever worked it, that ain't what you're saying here.

That's an excellent point.

It's very hard to say, oh, this crime happened this certain way if you can't point to any other instance in the history of mankind where the crime happened this certain way.

And no one could point to any instance where Odinism or white supremacists committed a ritual homicide of two white girls Yeah.

We talked to a terrific expert named Stuart Wexler who looked into like white supremacy and things like that, so he had a background in this, and you know, he pointed out that, hey, there can be situations where white supremacists norse, pagans, odinis, whatever you want to call them, where they've assassinated people.

But the case he was talking about was an adult man who was a DJ who was like against the white supremacist and making fun of them on his show.

When you're talking about white children, white supremacists tend to be, you know, wanting to have more of those, you know, and like that's not really who they're going to be targeting.

They're going to be targeting people who are minorities or people who are their perceived enemies, and so you know, kind of portraying it as a ritual sacrifice.

It's like, okay, but how is it a ritual if it's only ever been done once as far as we.

Know, right, and wasn't done well.

Yeah, and like also here's something that was just so annoying about this whole thing that I just people were just like, oh, well, there are sticks on the bodies, so those are runs.

Here's a question.

If I threw out a bunch of sticks in my yard, some of them might resemble like the letter B or the letter B, But if they don't really actually spell anything, then what are we doing here?

Like we can't you can't make something out of nothing like it either well something or a dozen.

And that's what I was trying to say.

It wasn't done well.

I mean, if you had a you know, pentagram, it should be clear.

If you have a goat's head, it should be clear.

If you've got six six six, it should be clear.

Like there was nothing that anybody could see that this was Oh, I see what the you know, activity is supposed to be.

I say, what the meaning is supposed to be wasn't there at all.

I'm a Catholic, right and we have you know, symbols or there might be like things that represent like a different saint or whatever.

And it's like if the symbols are so murky and obscure that they don't really mean anything, Like how am I supposed to signal to another Catholic what I'm trying to do here?

Like, you know, like language needs some level of clarity, even if it's a secret language or an obscure language, because otherwise it's not a language, it's just a vagueness.

Anya, that's a great point.

Now, Kevin, let me ask you this, As y'all are talking and having back and forth and you're waiting for the gag order to be lifted, how did y'all then decide to approach and include the family story.

Well, we knew the family story was absolutely crucial.

We both felt that in a lot of coverage of the case, people were talking so much about Owenism and all these other things that the girls were getting lost in their own stories, to be honest, But at the same time, we didn't want to intrude and we didn't want to take any precious memories that the family had and try to exploit them.

So we really tried to be respectful in that regard.

Yeah, we sort of went to the families and sort of just approached it very gently and said, this is our intention with the book.

We'd like to tell the truth.

We'd like to center the fact that we think Abby and Liby are heroes because we think that they solved this.

But you know, yeah, so I mean, like, so that's our intention.

That's where we're coming from, but don't feel like you have to, like, you know, just give us your memories so we can you know, have them for the book, like those are yours.

If there's stuff you want to bring to us to our attention, we would be happy to you know, kind of talk about that and whatnot, but also don't feel pressure.

So that was sort of a way that people could come to us at their own pace and do what they wanted to do, versus like feeling like they had to.

And you know, I think that was something that I feel good about doing because you don't want to ignore the family story.

You don't want to not reach out and have them engaged, but you also don't want to just be like running them down and beating on their door and stressing them out.

So we tried to have kind of a way where they could feel empowered to do what they wanted to do.

I think one of the most difficult things about covering any case that you are so intimately involved in, you know, things that don't make it to coort, you know, things the jury never heard.

I think that's an important part of this book too, that y'all are both able to now tell things people did not know.

Yeah, that was so hard sometimes because you know, for safety reasons or for reasons of trying to preserve the case or Richard Allen's rights.

Even in some instances you can't.

You can't just share everything you know at all times.

It just wouldn't be responsible.

But you do want to inform the public, and I think this book was the chance to kind of give people a peek behind the curtains and here, here's what was really going on when this whole thing was happening.

And I think we feel in that way, but I think the investigators did too.

When we talked to them, they were you know a lot of them would be like, oh man, I'm so glad, like finally I can tell people about this situation happened.

That's right, that's right, because you know, you've got some folks that have been pretty vocal online about how corrupt the law enforcement is, how the judge was crazy, how everybody that thinks Richard Allen did it is on and it's some big conspiracy.

They had zero evidence.

I mean, you've heard all so again, I think there's some parts of this book where people are gonna be like, Okay, well, that's hard to refute.

Oh, I didn't realize that could y'all put things in such a succinct way.

And I don't want to give things away, but y'all, when I tell you, I think Anya just said it perfect.

It is.

You get a peek behind the curtain for sure.

Yeah, you get to see some of the fights between law enforcement.

You get to see some of the like instances where they were like, you know, going back and forth or not sure what to do, or they maybe felt they did the wrong thing.

So like it's going to be warts and all, but I really appreciate that.

I think one thing that for me, there's a handful of people and it really is a small group.

When you look at them, they're just very loud where they're just I mean, I hate to say this, but it's almost like a cult where they've just like made this their whole personalities, where they think everything's a conspiracy and everyone's evil except for them, and so, I mean, they're all very badly behaved and ridiculous.

And some of them are in the book, but I would say most people who you encounter, they're just not sure and that's understandable.

They're just like, hey, I read a couple headlines or I read a couple articles.

I don't really understand the case, and I don't feel comfortable with the idea that someone went to prison if I'm not sure that that's the guy who did it.

And it's like, hey, I understand where you're coming from.

I'd probably be in the same boat if I hadn't seen all of this.

And so this book is a chance to give people an opportunity to kind of make up their own minds based on everything, and in the end they may come to different conclusions.

They can at least be starting from the foundation of having all the relevant information.

And I would imagine too.

I mean, Kevin can't take his attorney had off.

He can't.

That's the way he's trained to think.

And when you have to make a decision, do we include that Richard Allen's wife didn't I make the stand?

Do we include that or not?

Because I think you made a great point on you that, yeah, he's got rights and those have got to be respected and he may appeal.

So you don't want to do anything to hurt the integrity.

But at the same time, you're sitting there writing with an attorney sitting to your left, breathing down my neck and breathing down your neck, trying to ruin your book.

Watching me like shying attorney hat.

Honey, you better put allegedly.

I don't want to say allegedly, you're.

Gonna go nuts at this.

But sometimes I always felt like I was the more I mean, on the show, I'm the hot head and Kevin's the cool mister cool.

But behind the scenes sometimes I could be the more cautious one because I would be like, I don't know, like like, let's get a couple more sources on this, and Kevin's like, let's go.

So we don't try to be cautious.

We also don't want to be unfair to anybody.

You know, there were certain people who just would not participate, and we're not gonna pull punches or white water just because people don't participate.

But we also don't want to just be like, oh, we're in somebody's head when we're not.

I think like, there's there's situations too where, yeah, you know, and like we never want to just kitchen sink somebody like throw everything but the kitchen sink at them.

So you know, with with Richard Allen, there'd be certain things where you know, we ultimately felt very much that he was guilty as charged and the jury made the right call and should that verdict should be respected.

But at the same time, there would be things that people would make a big deal about that we would say we didn't really feel like that was so much of a big deal.

Like, you know, when he was on a recording saying I'll just tell them what they want to hear.

Some people thought that sounded like a confession.

We kind of thought that sounded like it could be something incriminating, or it could be just more of him saying I'll just tell the detectives what they want to hear, even if it's not true.

So we're not going to you know, beat up on him on that.

So we tried to be like just thoughtful about what we felt was really relevant versus what is just kind of you know, noise is If that makes sense.

Well, I did learn something just then Kevin and I should not write a book together so much.

It would be fabulous, but we might get so so I didn't have a question.

Let's go, you know.

I'll just be there with my editor hat on, and then you guys can be like kind of a little cowd.

You know, in Kevin's defense, I mean Richard Allen did say I did it.

I killed Abby and Libby.

Yes, And we we with our with where we were going with this.

We wanted to everything we were going to have was either going to be in the court record or something where it would be like we had multiple sources all saying the same thing independently, So we tried to make sure that everything was vetted.

I mean, one thing that I kind of have had a bit of heartburn about, you know, was just like, hey, like it's it's it's something where you know, like you know, you want to I mean, it would have been nice to at people from Alan's side and from Allan's family sort of just sharing their story, and that I mean we asked for that, We pushed for that, and and that was with the intention of we'd really love to have been able to talk to them, figure out how they felt about things, and humanize their stories even more.

But you know, at the same time, when people don't want to participate, that's their right.

But it doesn't mean that, you know, we did our due diligence there as far as I'm concerned.

Okay, I want to ask both of you, because I know this was a labor of love.

I know it was tasking.

I know it was hard work.

I know it, and especially working with somebody love, I mean, that is not always easy.

You know.

My grandmama, she would say, travel with them or build something with them, that's how you'll figure out what they're about.

But I would add to that and I'd say cover a case with them.

It's a lot, but y'all have done it brilliantly.

But I want to ask both of you, what was your favorite section of the book.

What was your favorite thing that came out, or the way you put it together, whatever just grew you the most.

I'm so impressed with Anya's writing in general, and most of the book I think, certainly it was like fifty to fifty, but one section that she did on her own completely was the very ending, and we've heard from so many people that it brought a tear to their eyes, and I was really affected by it.

I just thought it was some wonderful writing, and just generally throughout the process, I've really been blessed to work with someone as talented as she is.

It makes it a whole lot easier when if you're working on a project and you look over and your partner is someone as wonderful and as talented as Anya Kid, sweetie.

I'm going to cry.

Now, well, that's really nice Kevin.

I mean, honestly, Kevin is easy to work with because he is easy going and he undercuts my ridiculous perfectionist tendency.

So I'll be someone who's like, oh, geez, like, we got to get this paragraph, and he'll just be like, calm down, and I'll be like, yeah, that's fair, and he'll say it in a nicer way than just calm down.

He'll be able to actually help me, and he is great to work with.

I really liked I think I mentioned I section five.

I think that was the section where the investigators are starting to kind of piece together the lead that ultimately led them to Richard Allen.

Is that right?

Yeah?

And I thought Kevin wrote that it just felt very propulsive, It felt like it was like pushing us forward, and that I was excited to read that because even though I knew exactly what happened, and I'd gone over it in my head so many times, he was able to cut it down, edit it, and piece it together in a way that just felt really like you're watching this happen almost and it's chilling, it's disturbing, but it's also something that you want to know what happens next.

And I think that for me.

And then another thing for me was we got the opportunity to talk to some of these investigators.

And I know this is something that you'd appreciate, but just like learning about the human beings behind the job and their personalities and what they struggled with and getting to help them try to, you know, kind of almost making them come alive a little bit in the book, or at least attempting to do that was gratifying because it was like, these guys are really good, solid guys, and they're solid investigators, and you know, for reasons that are understandable to a certain extent, but also for reasons that are kind of nonsense.

At this point, a lot of them have been you know, the investigation was really maligned as like, oh and nept and incompetent and horrible and all these people are all obviously corrupt because it's not solved yet, and I think that's the furthest thing from the truth.

I think they there were mistakes made, There were problems.

Any investigation is going to have that, but these people never gave up, and they should be celebrated for that.

I think that's what we should want from law enforcement.

You know that they're going to continue to try to investigate even if things are not always looking good.

And that's what these guys did.

Y'all.

Go get Shadow of the Bridge.

Go get it.

It is a masterpiece, y'all.

I cannot tell you how much I have enjoyed talking to y'all again.

I adore a good love story.

I'm a sucker for a good couple, but I'm going to tell you it just brings me joy when I see a good couple succeed.

So I'm going to end Zone seven the way that I always do with a quote.

When I first suggested the podcast, it was before we were married or living together.

Part of my thinking was, at least this way I get to talk to her for an hour a week.

Kevin Greenley about Anya came Murder Sheets podcast.

Thank you so much.

It's romantic.

I'm Cheryl mccollumn and this is Zone seven.

Mm hmm.