Welcome to pathology with doctor Priya.

Doctor, how are you.

I'm great.

I'm still rolling off the high of crime con and being in Denver, but I'm back in business.

Okay.

Well, honey, that's easy to roll on with, isn't it.

It is it is.

It was contagious in a good way, in.

A great way.

Well, I want to talk to you about our fifteen year old runaway that's been found in the trunk of a car of a singer that goes by David.

Yeah.

I'm just learning about this case, but there's a lot of sort of peripheral interest.

My phone keeps blowing up, so I had to look into it.

Well, you know, the singer's name is David Anthony Burt.

He's got thirty three million listeners.

He's on a world tour, but he's got a little situation.

He might have a lot more world of trouble.

Now we have to I'm going to preface this.

I'm not a lawyer, you're not a lawyer.

Everybody is innocent until proven guilty.

You know, there are multiple variables.

There's no way that we're saying, or I'm not saying that he is absolutely associated with leading to the girl's death or disappearance or anything to her.

Okay, but his car is his car absolutely is, and I think time will tell what else.

Maybe.

So if you and I were working this together, here's the things I would won't personally talk to you about.

I would want to know, does this victim have certain jewelry tattoos, what's the clothing situation?

All the things we talked about in a previous episode.

Yeah, and that's what we talked about him.

I think that set like a good precedent to discuss a specific case now from what I understand, and correct me if I'm wrong, because I've just read, like I said, my phone blowing up.

My friends are like, what's going on?

And you know, we're all moms to tweens or teens.

So I think it captures a certain you know, my colleagues and friends who want to know, like, hey, this has been circulating in the news.

I think one of my girlfriends said I got a case for you in her text.

And so my understanding is this girl who was missing now identified, had been missing for over a year, and there was like a missing person's report because she's a minor, and we can get into her age and how they identified her or I don't know if we know, but regardless.

You know, they identified her forensically.

Forensically, but I'm saying I don't know if it was which specific forensic.

Oh I understand, man, you know method.

Because that's going to be kept hush hush.

And in any case, like all of this, they had to you know, find They found her in a trunk of a car, his car, a Tesla, and then it was like what now, right, And that's where we would come in.

And let me just say, fairby, listen, when I work a case, I work it backwards.

I know the ending.

She's in a trunk of a car, so now we've got to go backwards.

One of the first things that leaped into my head.

How does a famous singer cross paths with a fifteen year old runaway.

It's usually not a good way.

No, I mean, you know, we know, I'm a mom to a daughter.

I've said it multiple times, and I'm you know the world can be very unkind to children, but especially young girls, and when you run away, you don't have that safety net.

So she's at high risk.

I would say, for you know, bad things happening, even I mean unfortunately leading to death.

You know, the extreme worst case scenario.

But you know, I think most lay people you don't need to be a doctor or a CSI to know that the streets can be very rough.

And listen, we're not saying David had anything to do with it.

What we're saying is his car did.

And here's what concerns me.

That car was not reported stolen.

Some neighbors have said they've seen the car there for a month now.

If that's the case, I don't know how long he's been on tour.

I don't know if other people have access to that car I have.

There's so many questions.

And then again, her mom has come forward already and said she had a boyfriend named David.

They have matching tattoos, which again is something I would have relied on you.

Oh, absolutely, yes.

What can you get from this body that's been in a bag in a trunk?

And I want to talk about that because when you start talking about decomposition in a bag is going to speed it up.

In a trunk is going to speed it up.

In the heat is going to speed it up.

So I mean, how much do you do you think they can really tail about her face?

Potential injuries, potential causes of death.

I would start by saying, we definitely have a pickle on our hand, right if we If I get so in my job at a very unique situation where doctors did go to crime scenes like this, you know, where it's obvious, obvious foul play or you know, very suspicious, let's say, and they would call me regardless of day or night location, right anywhere in the state.

I would respond, my investigator and I, you know, and so then we would meet police and you on the scene.

And this is where, you know, not every case fits a cookie cutter, right, I would say, this is a very unique case compared to our more regular, you know, normal deaths, if you will, I don't want to say normal, but more readily occurring, you know.

And that's where we have to sort of, you know, work together.

Right.

So you're opening the trunk, and the police will have that special ability to run the plates see who it's registered to.

Because when I show up, I'm getting all that information from them.

I have no idea this is just a random car, right, and so I'm going to ask that information, but they'll put that in the police report.

I think the task at hand and you know, I think you would agree with me, is how do we deal with the body at this moment?

Right, we have a very delicate situation.

This is a car that probably hasn't been running, and then we open it, We're like, who the heck is this?

We don't even know what's a boy or girl?

Really, right, because decomposition can happen so fast and so advanced that we may I mean, she's not You can't just look at her face and tell us you know who she is or that it's a girl, and you think, oh, that's crazy, Krea.

What you know?

Why is that well during decomposition, hair slips off, the skin color changes, the eyes deflate.

I mean, people don't look like who they are, especially as the decomposition advances.

So I don't know where on the sort of range of decomposition she was.

This is all very privileged information right to the medical examiner and police because they have a you know, a difficult investigation ahead, high profile, you know, especially, so what we would do is really like work with you.

I think the plastic bag is money.

First of all, where did it come from?

Does it have any unique stamps on it?

I mean, obviously plastic bags are you know, they are prevalent, but sometimes you can even trace it back to like the manufacturer where was it sold if you could get a serial number or make of it.

And then remember we're still going back to basics, touch DNA and fingerprints even on a plastic bag.

Right, and and how there's a special technique for it if I remember right mac.

Oh, yeah, you can do sonocrylic fuming super glue.

I call it crazy glue, right.

I grew you know, first glew up with it as crazy glue.

And it's funny, right because your parents would be like, don't at it on your skin.

You're you've never been it's going to stick to your skin, right, I remember thinking, oh gosh, like my stingers are stuffed together.

But you know we've all done it, right, But you know that that everyday sort of thing.

Right, It's like pick it up at CVS or Target or home depot and there you go.

Right, this sort of magical chemical has has a lot of power in this case.

Sure, and they can also swab it for DNA on the outside.

Well, right, so think about where it's touched the outside for touch DNA, the not like if the if the bag is knotted, or if there's a tie, a zip tie, whatever, think about how someone's touching it and that you're not going to do the whole bag, right, But I think there's high yield areas that we want to get that right at the scene.

And honestly that's where I work with you and your colleagues.

Like I think I've talked about it before.

There was like a guy had been dragged, so like touch DNA at the hem of the ants is really important.

And I know he had been shot, so like in my terms, the blood was going to stain the pants further, so it's going to make the testing more difficult.

Same thing here is I would almost work up the bag as much as possible at the scene without disturbing it, and then like then open it, you know, and we're photographing this a dozen times, right, But you know what, before I get into the bag and sort of get to the goal of the body, we need to think very carefully.

You know, what's going to help the investigation through to the end.

I want to know the size of the bag because was the entire body put in a bag?

Now she was a small person, five to two and seventy one pounds tiny or was she in pieces when she went in the bag or was it dcom that caused her to look like she was in pieces?

Right?

And I actually don't know because I've sort of read mixed messages.

Right, So her missing person since listing right, the poster had her picture, so she has been identified.

But at the time, like when she's just you know, when we find her the she's listed to one hundred and twenty pounds.

But decomposition makes the body lighter, Okay, so that's something to remember.

So she's found I think dismembered, and you know, so think about fluids have leaked out, the tissue has decomposed, so air is filled up the tissue, so she's gonna look bigger than she is if she's bloated.

And like I said, that is only one stage of decomposition.

But you can't just look at a decomposed body and really assess the weight.

And it's always surprising to me how big it can look because of gases that form post mortem.

But when you weigh it, it's much less than the known weight.

And I think, bacoarly, it's like I think they were said the body at the scene or at autopsy was only seventy one pounds, so she's almost half of her living weight that stage.

Decomp Her face is not going to be helped to us.

She's a juvenile.

Fingerprints aren't going to be helpful to us.

So again we're relying on the things that we can see now.

With a body in advanced decomp they were still able to see the tattoo.

Can you explain how that is able to happen.

Not every part of the body will decomp at the same time, especially in a closed environment.

I don't know what was sort of more towards the surface, more hidden, if you will, But assuming they could see the tattoo or let me back up, I have done this.

I've used infrared photography even on the most severely burned or decomposed bodies to pop out tattoos and it is amazing to see the difference.

The IR filter really still is able to differentiate ink even on dark skin.

With black ink, you know, you can really see it, and that's been very valuable to me to identify in the past.

If that's not available, let's just say someone is unique and doesn't have a tattoo.

So now I'm generalizing.

You still can do teeth right, like the teeth formation x rays if someone's gone to a dentist.

But remember you have to have some clue who this person is to ask for dental records, right, So what happens is like I just went to the dentist.

They took my X rays to check for cavities.

Now, every tooth root and the way it looks in the mouth and even other cavities in the head known as sinuses, all are unique, and so you can use that data once someone's past, But you have to still be able to be like, hey, this is Jane, do I need her X rays?

If I don't know who this is yet, then that gets trickier, right, And then of course there's DNA, but you have to have the same thing comparison DNA, right, you have to know who I'm like, you know, comparing the known to you know, when I'm alive.

They'll take a toothbrush, a hair sample, even the parents, but you have to know whose mom to go to mom or dad or sister brother, right, So it's not you can't just start testing everybody.

So I think the tattoo was extremely telling in this case.

It was a very unique tattoo, and as far as I read in the late you know, just newspaper and releases, that he has a similar tattoo.

So again, this is I would say, you know, circumstantial evidence at best, but still, you know, raises a little bit of a red flag to me.

Well you want to talk to him, there's no question.

And then the whole landscape of how this thing is playing out.

He's got a song called romantic homicide.

Yeah, I learned it.

So I may be older than his target audience, you know, so I am not cool enough to know who he was prior to this, but I looked him up, you know, and then as I did, I learned a lot about his music.

And again let's just talk about coincidences, you know.

So romantic homicide, My first thought was, oh no, who approved that title?

Right?

It's a little bit edgy.

That's fine in this case.

It doesn't again paint a good picture for him.

It's a great title if you don't have a dad fifteen year old in the truck in your.

Car, that's right.

And I think I would hesitate, given what we do, I would probably hesitate to call any song that I that I publish romantic.

Just you know, okay, not romantic escapaid, Romantic field.

Trip, right like romantic.

I mean, I come up with so many other words that would make me happy.

But nonetheless, everybody has an opinion on that, and it's his music, it's his creativity.

Romantic field trip, I could get with that song.

Write a picnic cupcakes.

I'm all good as long as I come back alive.

Nonetheless, I think another coincidence, at least released to the media nothing is fact checked yet, is that Romantic Homicide was released on her birthday of September seventh, and she's been missing for quite a while.

So we talked about the car maybe even being there a month.

But my understanding from the missing person's poster was she's been missing over.

A year May of twenty twenty four, right.

So we're over a year.

And I will say, again, how many twenty year old man crosspads with a fifteen year old runaway.

It is not at Bible study.

In all seriousness, Even if you're a Bible study, she's still illegally a minor.

I find it interesting that the mom did know that she had an older boyfriend.

You know, that should raise alarms right there.

She's a minor.

He's a grown man.

Grown man, right, and it's not like seventeen and eighteen, like they have a five year age gap.

So you know, there's no blurred lines there in who's the adult and who's the miner.

I mean, a tenth grader and a sophomore in college.

That's a world apart.

You're not driving yet, he's in a fragh.

That's true.

That's true.

That's true.

And you have no parents.

She has no parents, She has no legal guardian.

Somebody's paying for that tattoo, somebody's paying for her jewelry, somebody's paying for her food.

So again, I don't know where she came from that they met.

It's suspicious, yes, I mean it makes you wonder.

Right, we're both moms and we both are in that you know, have daughters, and like I don't want my daughter just even if this kid is good, like I would still hesitate, right, Like, what are you doing with a twenty year old?

You have to be in school.

Here's the other thing we need to address.

So either she's been in the trunk of that car a month or seven days or five days, no matter, Let's say it's only the five days.

The shortest amount of time.

For five days, he hasn't been able to reach her.

For five days, he hasn't reported her missing.

And I mean for one reason, his car was impounded or in a toe lot.

Because it was abandoned on that street.

So finally they called and said this car has been here.

But it's not like he went looking in his trunk and said, oh, no, you know this person's there.

Like it was so like that, not circling back at I mean, Tesla's aren't cheap, as far as I know, if my car was missing, I would be even if someone borrowed it.

Right, I'm like, where the heck.

Is my car?

Girl?

I got a better car, and if it ain't in my driveway, I'm call somebody.

And again, he never reported it missing.

I'm sure we've all let people borrow our cars, you know, in a time of need.

But I expect it back in one piece without a dead body in it.

So, you know, I think our listeners are smart.

That's what I learned at crime con very astute.

And I think anybody at least listening to what is known about the case.

Now I want to back up, so, like this girl has had an autopsy, okay.

And I've handled multiple cases in my career where specifically because a it's a complicated case, but b because the detectives want time to interrogate people.

They don't want me to release the cause and manner of death, even if it's known, Okay, I suspect.

In this case, with the decomposed body, it's a much more complex workup.

Okay, they're depending on the condition of her body, especially that her death is suspicious, I would get like forensic anthropology involved, you know, and so that's a very detailed examination we do in parallel like the Emmy and the and the anthropologist, and so we need to make sure about that toxicology.

You know, that's a very key part of the puzzle, right, like how did she end up?

You know, is she drugged?

Is she drinking?

Is she doing whatever?

Is she taking any medication?

I mean, all of the above needs to be answered.

That brings me to a question.

Is that why the medical examiner said deferred?

Well, I think I was getting to that, meaning this is a very complex case.

Like we said, this is not a run of the mill sort of autopsy, right, this is going to take weeks to months to finish and So what I think in my if I was, you know, playing armchair quarterback like as the EM, I would write pending further studies or deferred, you know, depending on your language.

But to me important issues to address includes again toxicology, which is pending, forensic anthropology.

I need to make sure there's no unexplained wounds, and like you can't often tell because there's maggot activity d comp you can get holes in the tissues.

Now is that a bullet hole?

Is that a knife wound?

Is their strangulation?

She's young, so I need to look at her hyoid, right, I look at sort of you know, it's like looking with a magnifying glass at the bones to make sure there's no cut marks, no metal left in her.

You know, she's definitely gonna get X rayed.

And then you know, sort of putting the puzzle together and seeing like what the police find.

So it's multiple issues sort of playing at the same time that make it extra complicated.

So you know, usually she's known at least to be young and healthy, right, So obviously now I'm thinking this is non natural, like what is what nefarious thing or things have happened to her?

And who did it?

Pending makes more sense to me than deferred.

I get now why they used it, but I like your terminology better.

So I used to say pending further studies, which you know, if it's only investigation, then I would say pending investigation.

But usually think about a toxicology is always pending, right, That's not an instant read.

So to me, pending further studies, whatever that may be, sort of encompasses all of it.

So here's the last thing.

When you and I would be talking, and this would be our case.

The tattoos, the jewelry, the clothing that might give me an idea of what was going on at the time time she went missing and was put in the trunk of the car.

As a murder victim, I think we're looking at a homicide again.

To wind up in some type of plastic bag, that is what I believe he're looking at.

So here's the deal.

When you call somebody a runaway, that ain't the end of the story.

Something has to happen.

Either the child goes back home or they learn the streets.

And here's what I mean by that.

They either start a life of prostitution, they get trafficked, or they're in a bad domestic situation.

Most runaways that I have dealt with have a bad home life that has a sexual abuse component.

Yeah, highly logical.

I mean I don't know the stats, but no, you know, usual kid doesn't run away unless they're running away from something disturbing in their environment.

And I'm just talking about the majority that I've dealt with.

Prostitution is not a long walk.

They had to do things and got no benefit.

So if they're going to do things and get a benefit, whether it's drugs, food, a place to live, or all the above, and then the trafficking is something that they don't have a say so in.

But if they're young enough, scared enough, hungry enough, what are they going to do?

Their options are limited.

They either go back to the abuse, they go to some juvenile hall type situation, or again they learn to work the street.

So to me, this fifteen year old, it's one of those three things.

To me, absolutely, and I think whether there's no father or parental figures, father, mother, I mean, her mother stepped up, but where was she all this time?

And then you know that's something to explore.

I'm not blaming her per se, but what's going on.

There's so much sort of time lapse right between when she went missing and when she's found, and then how did she get introduced to this guy?

You know?

Is there drugs?

Lifestyle?

You know, she went from being like a high school student to being in the you know, entertainment world, right, like music world.

That's a far leap.

And so that's all the kind of stuff I would ask the police.

You know, that's a critical part.

I mean, we can I'm my gut feeling is this is a homicide?

You know, I haven't done the autopsy.

That's why I'm hesitating.

Everybody's like, duh it is you know, I'm not.

I'm playing armchair quarterback, right, but the circumstances are very very bad.

And if it's a homicide, well we've still have to explain everything that led to that, or a lot of what led to that, you know, who's responsible, who had access to the car?

Like, uh, you know, is she I think they even mentioned she might be dismembered, so like you know, and that's a disposal process.

Usually it's not how they die, but it's usually what I've seen sort of post mortem to get her to fit into the trunk and the bag whatever it is.

And so these are all very very important steps.

And then the one thing I didn't talk about in anthropology.

I want to step back is if the body's dismembered, then we got to look at the bones because it'll tell me what kind of tool might have been used to dismember her.

So we need to go back and find that tool and do like a matching to the edge, like a tool mark analysis.

It could all be in the trunk of the car.

Yeah, and it's so much right.

We don't know if it's in the bag.

We don't know, if it's in the house.

We don't know, like in the car.

Let's just get real.

Let's get real.

You've got a fifteen year old girl dead in the truck of your car, a car you never reported missing.

Your song is published on her birthday.

You have matching tattoos of this girl.

I mean, there's a lot there already that I don't know that he's going to be able to explain, and just saying, well, he's on tour, he's on tour now, But when did he leave to go on tour?

Correct?

And I think now the sort of fallout or the follow up is that it seems like his tour has been canceled, endorsements are being being pulled, so you know, it's not like he's being let free either.

So I'm sure the police are probably like, hey, buddy, you need to stay around here.

You know, you can't just go around the nation cavorting while the serious situation is unfolding and we don't know all the answers.

Well, let me say this, inside that bag may not just be her.

There could be evidence of the killer, whoever that might be.

So once you contain something, you have contained it.

Right, And that's why I was saying swabbing the bag thinking of how it was tied.

Looking inside, I mean, right, we've I mean I found bullet casings, and I mean, you know sometimes napkins whatever it is, right, sort of gloves Like gloves are huge, right, because you can swab the inside of a glove for DNA.

So you've really got to think about like what you might find and where to look.

And I mean we're not the lawyers.

We're not getting search warrants, but I'm sure the police certainly are and will continue to.

Well, I would be as interested in the inside of that bag as I am the outside.

Well, doctor, I appreciate you.

And you know, it's funny every single day since crime con we have talked on the phone.

All I know, isn't that funny got bond, That bond hasn't been broken, that energy.

But we've had so many shared experiences that.

Were so fantastic, classed to have gone.

There with oh, no doubt.

I mean, just sitting at a tables me, you and Matt Murphy and then it was me, you and Callahan Walsh.

I mean we just had a ball.

And then of course Marcia Clarke.

I mean, it was a great.

Oh my god, that was epic.

She looks fantastic.

I thought she did too, and I thought she just had a great sense of humor and style about her.

It was wonderful, wonderful to meet her.

Finally, all right, well, sugar, I appreciate you.

Thank you till next time.

Then, well, I'll talk to you tomorrow, I'm sure, and.

Hopefully, you know, maybe we can revisit this case like once we know more.

Right, if it's not soon, but in the future, I would definitely like to sort of put the pieces of the puzzle together as they unfold.

Well, I think that's relevant and also, you know, just let people know our case wouldn't end at autopsy.

I would maintain communication with you about it.

So I think that's that's a valid.

Step, right, And I'm sure you and your colleagues at the police would be all over this, lots of talking, lots of meetings until we figure it out.

I would be reading song lyrics all night.

I know, I haven't listened to the song.

I think I'll stay unbiased, but the title will be all I know.

Well, you can stay unbiased, but I will say from a pr standpoint, I mean it's it's something that they're going to bring up.

I mean, he basically in one song you know, says I killed you and I ain't sorry about it.

So I mean it's you know, and I'm paraphrasing, of course, but I mean that's what he said.

So you can call it poetry, yes, right, right, but I may call it stakes exhibit one A.

Oh life imitates art, right or the other way around.

So anyways, well we'll leave it from here, all

Right, Baby, I'll talk to you tomorrow.