Bbcsdis Hey, I'm Maggie.

Just a quick heads up before we start.

The series does contain some descriptions of violence and deals with adult themes.

Close your eyes, hear that sleigh bells tingling in the distance.

You look outside at the frosted street corners.

A snow lightly falls on your mom's garden.

Gnome inside, you're warm, happy.

Maybe there's a fire lit in the corner.

You're surrounded by people you love, clinking glasses and good cheer.

Oh, don't look at Martha.

Maybe had a bit too much to drink.

But you know what, It's Christmas.

It's the festive season, and everyone is entitled to a good tiding here and there.

Okay, I admit this is like a quintessential Hallmark Christmas.

No one's Christmas is like this.

My Christmas isn't like this, But it's kind of what I think about when I close my eyes and dream of the holiday.

I think of warmth, friends and family, and a moment in time where nothing really matters but the present, this time of celebration and togetherness.

I'm not a Christmas proselytizer by any means, but I have to admit this idea of Christmas.

It's nice, but the holidays can also bring up a lot of mixed emotions.

They can feel lonely, isolating, especially if the worst thing imaginable happens to you just days before the holiday.

Anthony and I are sitting on the couch and everyone's like watching TV and the Christmas trees in the corner, and like, I'm checking my Facebook.

This is Liz melgar Rose.

She's celebrating the holidays with her husband and his family in the UK.

And there's like these messages about how people love me, and I'm like, they're here for me.

A few days ago, Liz experienced a tragedy, a miscarriage.

It was really difficult.

We were hopeful that we were going to have a baby and it just didn't work out.

People back home in Texas must have heard about it.

I'm thinking, oh, they know I've had a miscarriage, so they are sending their thoughts and love to me to make sure they know that I'm not alone.

You know that they're thinking of me.

But one message on her husband, Anthony's Facebook, catches her eye.

It was like, call me, there's an emergency.

Anthony gets up from the oversized red couch, and goes into the kitchen.

He makes a call I could hear before he closed the door, him saying something about it's about my family or my mom or my dad.

Time stretches what was likely a few seconds starts to feel like hours.

And then he comes back and he's like he's shaking, and he just looks like he's seen a ghost and he's just in shock.

My first thought is my mom has died.

Anthony looks at her, unsure of what to say.

And so I'm like, what happened?

And he's just he can't even talk, and I get so frustrated because he's taking too long and it feels like it's been an eternity, and I'm like, just tell me what the fuck happened.

He can barely get the words out.

Something horrible has happened.

Their friend in Texas saw Liz's parents' house in the news, their brick bungalow swaddled and yellow police tape, blue and red lights flickering in the cold night air.

And he said, your dad, your dad's been killed.

And that is not what I expected him to say.

So I said what And he said, your.

Dad's been killed?

And I thought what happened.

You know that feeling when the pit of your stomach drops.

You maybe hear a slight buzz in your ear, your heart begins thumping against your chest.

You can't focus on what people are saying.

It's like you can't hear at all.

That's how I imagine Liz felt in this moment she heard the news, the moment her entire life imploded.

Her dad, miles away from where she is now, has been murdered.

She snaps out of the haze.

There will be time to grieve, but right now she needs answers.

I'm calling all these people.

I'm trying to get a hold of my cousin.

It's like five or six in the morning back in Houston.

She needs to talk to her mom.

I'm like, where's my mom?

Nobody knows where my mom is, so I'm calling all the hospitals.

She's nowhere.

I'm calling the police.

She's nowhere.

I had no idea what's happened to her?

Sandy, Liz's mom has seemingly vanished without a trace.

Where is she?

What happened that cold night in December?

And who killed Liz's dad.

I'm Maggie Robinson Katz and from BBC Studios and iHeart Podcasts.

This is hands Tied, episode one, the call.

I Don't.

I've come to England to meet Liz at her home in Southwest London.

It's a cold and dreary day, which is exactly what I think of when I hear the words of January and England.

She brings in rocks and shoes.

Am, she brings in rocks.

Really, I don't know why that's so funny.

What type of dog is she?

Shallow?

Is sweetening?

They call them a re Mexican hair Liz.

Her name is Nola.

Liz has Mine roots, so this is a KETCHKEI word, which means cute.

Very yeah, strange animals.

I like her.

I meant to her.

She feels mighty for her size.

You can say the same thing about Liz.

She's tiny, with long hair dyed a deep purple, these big saucer eyes and although she may be forty, she looks like she's about twenty.

But make no mistake, Liz is fierce.

We sit on her couch, Liz wrapping herself in sweats and countless blankets because again it's January in England, and we began chatting when you think about your dad, what do you remember.

So he has this type of sense of humor, and everybody calls them Jim jokes because they're just so bad that they make you just, you know, grown and say, oh my god.

We all know those jokes.

Maybe you've told a few yourself.

I know I have their dad jokes, and these grown worthy Jim jokes were told to her countless times by her dad.

Jim.

My dad was always pulling pranks and playing around.

We always say that he was just another kid, which is why I had so much fun in my childhood, because I had someone else to play with.

Liz grew up in Houston, the only child to parents Jim also known as Hi may Or Jamie and Sandy Malgar.

When Liz thinks back to her childhood now, she can easily recall the good times.

We just had these adventures.

There was a creek in the backyard.

Sometimes it would flood if it rained a lot, and it would become this huge river, and there were alligators in there.

We had this little boat and we would.

Paddle out there and just ride down the river for a little while.

You're not afraid of alligators, no, you know, they can't see Zach.

Meaning if one is chasing you, run in a igzag hot tip.

You're welcome.

Saved your life despite the alligators, which I think are way scarier than Liz is letting on.

You can get a sense of what her childhood was like, playful fun with ample timeout in the warm Texas sun, and her two parents, Jim and Sandy, doting on her, wanting to give Liz everything they didn't have growing up.

I was an only child, so I probably was pretty spoiled.

I didn't get everything I wanted, obviously, but it's not like I was lacking in anything.

I'm grateful and I feel lucky that I had the parents that I do.

Were you close, Yeah, we were very close.

We all had a really good and close relationship.

I enjoyed spending time with my parents.

I miss it.

I'd bayea.

Jim and Sandy both had difficult childhoods.

Jim grew up in Guatemala, coming to America when he was just four years old.

His mother worked as a house cleaner, saving every penny to give her children a better life.

He would tell me stories as well as when he was a kid, to try and show me how good I had it and I think at first I didn't believe him because they just sounded just so far from what I knew.

Like buying a glass of goat milk from a villager for five cents only when they could afford it, or flying to the States at a young age by yourself and sharing a cramped, two bedroom, one bath roomhouse with your parents and siblings.

But yeah, it's kind of like, you know, you have these nice stories, but they're kind of mixed in with a lot of trauma.

I think Sandy didn't have it any easier.

She was abandoned by her parents and dumped with her grandmother in Laredo, a small town on the border with Mexico.

She grew up incredibly poor.

Sometimes they didn't have food, Sometimes they didn't have electricity or running water.

They struggled a lot.

Sandy also spent time in and out of the foster care system, a time Liz says her mom doesn't like to remember.

It was difficult to be in these foster homes.

I mean, you're thrown into these new environments that I mean, you're just a kid, You're scared, you don't know what's going on.

And so I think she wanted me to have everything that she never had, and so she was determined to be just the best mom that she could be.

It was difficult for.

Her, but eventually Jim and said Andy find each other Fate or the alphabet bringing them together in a high school class in Houston at age seventeen.

So it was Sandra McCullough and then Jim and Melgar.

So he sat behind her and he would pull her hair because she had really long blonde hair, and he used to ask her out a lot, and she kept saying.

No until Jim comes up with a brilliant idea.

He finally asks her to go to this huge mall in downtown Houston which is called the Gallery of and there's a big ice skating rink in there.

So he says, some of my friends and I are going to be there.

Would you like to join us.

You know, a group thing.

It will be totally relaxed.

Sandy agrees, and.

When she gets there, it's my dad and one other friend, and the friend shortly leaves and they just ended up spending that evening together and I guess the rest was history.

They were inseparable after that.

They married and had Liz a few years later.

Jim loved cars and music, his favorite bands being ACDC, Black Sabbath back when Ozzie was still in the band, To Be Clear, and Pink Floyd, a band Liz loves as well.

Jim worked as a computer programmer for the Houston Independent Schools District, while Sandy was first a nurse then later set up a medical billing company.

From Liz's perspective, her parents always seemed to have a loving and respectful relationship.

And I know people probably don't believe me when I say this, but I never, ever, once in my entire life, ever saw them fight or yell at each other or raise their voices at each other.

Never.

I don't know how they did that, because I can't do that.

Disagreements, according to Liz, were solved by talking things out calmly.

It was never like yelling or fight even modeling that behavior for her.

One time, Liz says she called her boyfriend stupid in front of her dad.

And my dad took me to the side and he said that it is really disrespectful, and it might start a habit where you do that and you think you're just playing around, but then when you're angry, you're going to say it and you're going to mean it and you're.

Not going to be able to take it back.

So he always taught me how it was important to be very respectful in your relationships and be mindful about how you're talking to people.

I mean, a lesson for all of us.

I still struggle with it that they had somehow mastered this and were able to practice it together.

And you know, I just I think that's a testament to their relationship and to the love and respect that they had for each other.

Liz grabs her phone to show me a picture of her with her mom and dad.

We were taking a bunch of pictures together.

I don't know why this is the only one I have.

This is the last time she saw her dad.

It's at departures in the terminal there at the airport, and it's just me in between my mom and dad and they've both got their arms around me.

I've got my arms around them, and uh yeah, I'm about to get on a plane to England.

Liz was starting her own adventure, beginning a neuroscience course in Brighton with a focus on the brain chemistry of violent offenders.

She'd long had an interest in true crime, something her parents thought was a little weird.

The next step up from her passion for horror.

Back then, true crime books were harder to come by than they are now, Even so, Liz's room was stacked with books on serial killers.

Well, I remember this moment and then leaving and walking up towards the gate.

I was sad to be leaving, but it wasn't as sad as usually was, because you know, I kept saying, we're coming back and we'll see them soon.

We'll spend lots of time together.

And yeah, I think I went into crisis mode.

Right back in December twenty twelve, on the night that she hears that Jim has been murdered.

There are two questions crashing around inside Lissa's head.

What has happened to her dad, Jim And where is her mom Sandy.

I was able to just it just feels like everything slows down, and I'm okay, what do I need to do?

Step one?

And then I just take it from there.

Step one.

Get from London to Houston as fast as she can.

My husband started looking for the flights, but.

It's just before Christmas.

Everything is booked up with people traveling for the holidays.

Finally, Anthony manages to book them onto a flight, but it's going to take a while.

First we'll have to get to Paris, then on to Houston.

I remember sitting there just thinking, oh my god, I have this long flight ahead of me.

I don't know, it was just very surreal.

I felt like I was.

In a dream state and none of it was real, and I just had to get home.

Liz and her husband Anthony had no idea what they would find back home.

All they could do was literally sit and wait with an in flight snack or two.

On the long journey, they prepare themselves for step two, find out what happened to Liz's parents.

We're heading to my uncle Jim's house.

Lizz's cousin Marissa was there the day Jim was found, just before Christmas, December twenty third, twenty twelve.

And I remember I texted him actually before we left the house saying, Hey, we're running late.

That was just a running joke honestly with us, because he would you say that we were always late to everything.

Jim had invited Marissa and her family around to eat with him and Sandy.

So Marissa, her mam, Maria, her dad, herman, her sister, Monica, her boyfriend Gerson, and their baby Melanie all squished together.

It's kind of embarrassing to say we fit six of us in a five cedar car.

Somehow, Marissa finds enough elbow to text her uncle.

I will never forget telling my mom.

I said, you know, Uncle Jim hasn't texted me.

Back, said, oh, maybe he's busy.

We're thinking maybe he's busy, he's grilling, he's doing something right.

And then I text him again we're getting close, and again didn't hear from him.

Jim and Sandy live in Laurel Creek on the northwest side of Houston Suburban and the way most American neighborhoods are think, tree lined streets, cookie cutter houses a lot of them, bungalows, big garages, and lush front lawns, and a bit fancier than where Marissa's family live.

We were kind of sitting there in the driveway for a little while because the neighbors, like directly across from their house, they were out, and so we were just kind of sitting there, laughing, thinking, how are we going to get out of this car without them, you know, judging us.

Eventually they get out of the car and knock on the door.

No answer.

So I'm thinking, okay, well let me call them.

No answer.

We tell my dad.

He go check the backyard.

They're probably outside.

They're grilly, I think, thinking they're grillly.

Herman makes his way to the backyard, peeks over the fence and calls back.

Oh, there's nobody out there, he said.

I'd tried calling for my brother.

Nobody's saying anything.

I don't think anybody's in the backyard, so this is.

Strange, even stranger.

The garage door is wide open, well one side is.

It's a double garage.

Herman decides to have a look inside.

And I'm thinking, no, we don't break into people's homes, so you know, let's wait, I said.

Then I started thinking, maybe they're taking a shower, you know, maybe, you know, we got to give them some.

Space, you know, I'm sure they'll come out.

But my dad was like, no, no, no, this is my brother's house, or we can make ourselves at home.

Herman walks in, goes through the door in the garage that connects to the main house, and unlocks the front door, letting the rest of his family in.

That's when I it just didn't feel right.

As soon as my dad opened the door.

I remember I put my arm up, you know, towards my mom's chest, and I said no.

I said no, let's just wait right here.

But herman ignores his daughter and turns back into the house.

The rest of the family follow into the darkness.

Every single shade in the house is drawn.

My dad started calling out, Sandy, Jim, we're here, and that's when we started hearing what I would describe like mumbling noises.

We all stopped and we were like, wait, what was that.

It's a voice saying help help.

My dad.

He's sprang into action.

He ran towards where the noise was coming.

From, running towards the back of the house, the sound of the cries becoming louder and louder.

I was terrified.

I had no idea what was going on.

It just kind of I don't remember hearing anything when I was in the bedroom, it was just kind of quiet.

She goes through the bedroom and into the bathroom.

Herman spots a brown satin chair pushed up under the handle of the bathroom closet, locking it shut from the outside.

He moves the chair and inside finds Sandy She's dressed in a red nightie, black robe, and fluffy socks, lying on the floor, her feet in her hands, tied up.

Herman and his wife cut her free and notice her soiled underwear as they do.

It looks like she's been there for hours.

I'm standing there, you know, all the commotion.

I see Sandy.

When I saw her, she was crying, she was hysterical.

She was saying, where's Jim, Where's Jim.

I was standing there frozen.

I think she was crawling or almost like dragging herself, asking where's Jim, where's Jim, And then my mom trying to hold her back.

No, no, no, like don't go over there, or don't just stay here.

I start walking into the room a little bit more, and you know, I turn around because.

The closet light was on, and I remember turning around it was to my right.

Marissa goes back into Sandy in Jim's bedroom, where there's another closet, and.

I looked down and I can see my uncle's legs, his ankles, and they were tied up with of gray.

I want to say it was a telephone cable.

Marissa can't take it any longer.

She needs to get out of that house.

I just decided I turned around to head back out, and I bumped into It was either my sister or Gerson.

When I bumped into them, They're like, what's going on?

I couldn't even.

Talk, she rushes outside.

The neighbors were out, so I was basically yelling at them.

I was like, please calln on the one Frantically.

She reaches into her pockets, her hands shaking as she calls for help, and.

The operator answered and I couldn't.

Talk, can barely get the words out.

The worst possible thing has happened.

Marissa stands outside as the sound of sirens grow into a crescendo.

The quiet afternoon twisted into a cacophony of alarms and shouting, the neighborhood lit up by the blue and red lights of the police vehicles and EMTs.

The house soon swaddled in yellow police.

Tape, you know, people going in and out.

And so at one point we did get a shirt out of the house, and so we were all.

Just standing in the driveway, just waiting to be told something.

Honestly, one of the officers warns the family that they'll need to be separated.

And so we went to different police cars, and we sat there for what felt like forever and are interviewed one by one.

Today is December the twenty third, twenty twelve, and this is a represent Aeros County case eight C twelve.

That's one seven six two six'.

Nine we're At Kelsey Meadows court And i'm talking with a.

Witness Now i'm going to ask you to state your name for the.

Recording Marston algaarmu, Okay and today you came to this address for lunch or dinner with who lives here that you?

Know my uncle IS i, Mean i'm, sorry my aunt and just them and what's their?

Names Sandy malgar And Jim malgar, okay and.

Are supposed to come Here Marissa.

Philsen Sergeant James dussay Of Harris County Sheriff's office on everything you just.

Heard they were going over To jim And sandy's house for.

Dinner there was no, answer so they made their way.

Inside that's when they Found.

Sandy an ornate brown satin chair with curling white vines was wedged under a door, handle essentially ceiling the bathroom closet, shut With sandy inside on the, floor hands and feet tied up.

Trapped she's laying on the.

Bat you could see.

HER i could see.

HER i believe she was tied, up, okay and THEN i got scared AND i ran out AND i told my.

DAD i was, like we don't know who's in, Here.

Marissa tells the.

Officer she left in a.

PANIC i was, like let's let's get.

OUT i was, Like i'm CALLING i on one And i'm running out and my boyfriend and my sister are STILL i think they were in the living room AND i ran, out, crying.

SCREAMING i was, like oh my, gosh and they were, like what's, happening what's?

Happening and they were out after, me and that's WHEN i.

Called nine one.

One now you said her hands were bound when you saw.

HER i believe, so, yeah, yeah they.

WERE i believe that she was like this when she.

Was saying help based on what you?

Know what's your?

Feelings?

Shock someone Killed?

Jim what do you?

Think any?

IDEAS i don't.

Know what's WHAT i was thinking in the, CAR i.

Was, like will could have done?

That thirteen years, later sitting In lizz's living room In, london she's still trying to answer that.

Question what happened that night who killed her?

DAD i don't even know when this shock actually started to wear.

OFF i feel like it was years.

Shocking that her dad was murdered and that it happened just as she started pursuing her own passion for true crime as a career studying violent criminal.

Behavior but that was very short, lived because then my own dad was murdered AND i had to go, home.

Her life morphing into one of the murder stories that obsessed her as a.

Teenager how does it feel to have read so many true crime stories and then to have that happen in your own.

Life it's.

Insane it's just it was so.

Strange she become part of this genre THAT i had been so interested.

In back In december twenty, Twelve liz had a realization she was uniquely placed to find out who murdered her.

Dad she was studying.

Criminology she spent her teenage years devouring true, crime and who Knew jim And sandy better than their only?

Child all that time reading about serial killers in murder could maybe be put to good.

USE I, Uh i'm thankful, though that that was my, interest because it helped me protect.

Myself and my.

Family it kind of.

Helped, me like put the pieces of the puzzle.

Together, YEAH i, MEAN i think if it weren't for that strange interest or hobby or whatever you want to call, it things could have gone, very very.

Differently it's a.

Mystery she still doesn't have an answer.

To too much for one.

Person there's a lot of, GUILT i think pushing.

ME i want to prove everyone wrong basically at this, point AND i JUST i want.

Answers WHEN i first heard About liz's, STORY i was, intrigued and in a very small way.

Relate liz AND i are both daughters who searched for answers and the mysteries that embroiled our late.

Fathers, NOW i just want to preface this by SAYING i have no idea what it's like to lose a parent in the Way liz, has but this desire to understand what, Happened i've been There when my dad.

DIED i found out he was caught up in A philippines based gold, scam causing him to lose the fortune he had spent his life, building leaving the rest of us with well.

Nothing but this answer wasn't good enough for.

ME i wanted to understand why this.

Happened, then most of, all meet the man who took his.

Money SO i got a plane to meet my dad's con, artist a ninety five year old White, american SO i could ask him to his face if he conned my.

Dad if you're listening and your parent has been scammed of money and you have the opportunity to meet their con, ARTIST i think my first recommendation is don't do.

IT i, MEAN i only say this BECAUSE i really didn't feel any sense of, closure AND i don't feel any nearer to understanding the mystery of why my dad fell for this ridiculous.

Con but this isn't my.

Story this is the story Of jim And Sandy melgar and their, Daughter Liz Rose, melgar a strange and beguiling case where a woman is found in a closet with her hands and feet, tied her husband dead a few feet away from.

Her to this, Day liz says she can't be sure who killed her, dad but she's certain of one.

Thing the wrong person is in prison for his.

Murder you've been.

Listening Hands tied a new eight part true crime series FROM Bbc studios And iHeart.

Podcasts new episodes will be released, weekly so subscribe or follow on The iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts so you don't miss.

Out if you like the, show please help us by spreading the word or giving us a five star.

Review I'm Maggie Robinson katz and the producer Is Maggie.

Latham sound design and mix is By Tom.

Brignall our script consultant Is Emma weatherall production support is From Dan, Martini Elena boutang And Mabel Finnegan.

Wright and our production executive Is Laura Jordan.

Rawl the series was developed By Anya saunders At.

iHeart the Managing Executive producer Is Christina, everett and FOR Bbc, studios The executive producer Is Joe kent