Welcome to this Watch LIVE.

Hi, I'm Lydia Winters.

And I'm Boo Boo.

And this is episode 211.

I like that you kind of said I'm Boo Boo.

I kind of forgot my name.

For a second, I think what's going on, This is not the first time you've done a full like Anchorman.

And I love it every time because obviously that's it.

It's so good.

I am Boo Boo.

This is episode 211 and we're posting at a new time of week.

Yes, because we have been switching around randomly.

We didn't really have an official.

We were like, oh, we're weekly now, but we were posting all over the what?

All over the place.

So now Mondays.

Mondays so you can start the week off with us.

Yeah, yeah.

It used to be you could start every morning with us.

Yeah, now the week.

Let's try the week the you can start the week off.

We're going to simplify things for everyone's life.

Depending on where where in the world you are.

So like maybe Trish in Australia can end the Monday with us?

Start off what's?

End of the first day.

End.

Yeah.

Hello everyone.

Yes.

So how have you been?

I I've been busy.

I don't, I totally don't know 'cause we don't live together and spend almost every.

Thank you for asking I It's a busy time.

It is a busy time.

I spent Friday like I, I don't know if you could hear it in my voice.

Mm hmm.

But I spent Friday on camera on microphone all day.

Yes, at the end of the day, I had almost lost my voice entirely.

But I I do feel it's coming back already.

So.

Yeah.

That's pretty.

I mean, you have a lot going on this month.

I also have a lot going on this month.

I'll be in Berlin almost the whole month.

Yeah, yeah, with Nomos and so yeah, it's a it's a busy time for the two of us.

Good times.

But it's fun to sit down and talk about watches that I'm like especially excited about this episode because you have no idea what we're I have.

Zero clue.

You have not told me anything.

I didn't even give you like the theme.

No.

OK, so then.

I'm very trusting.

You are very trusted, very trusted.

And now it's a I'm going to grill you about all of your principles of watch collecting, no?

Hey, I'm ready for that.

OK, I know you're all that.

One I'm definitely.

Ready.

You're always ready to talk.

Thanks.

OK so I'm gonna start with a question for you and then you'll immediately know what the episode is about, which is perfect.

Can you think of any bird related watches?

OK, I do think I know where this episode is headed.

Bird related watches, yes.

Oh, now I do.

Feel like bird birds Like cacao.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Wait, what other kinds of birds are?

There, I don't know, I just wanted to do cacao.

I was like, what?

What could people have misunderstood birds as?

I guess it's an old timey slang for women.

What?

Yeah, birds.

Yeah, yeah, like in 1940s.

OK, yeah, I didn't.

I meant.

I mean, I wasn't alive back there, but I've seen it in.

Movies.

I meant birds like the ones that fly the.

Ones that fly what women do fly.

They have airplanes and everything.

Anyway, we are moving on from that.

You mean birds that caca in the sky?

They don't all caca.

Someone tweet and stuff all right.

Anyway, I cannot think of a bird related watch right now.

OK, I have a few and that's.

Good, since it's your question.

I'm going to go with an easy one.

OK, OK.

OK, I have one.

Is it in your own collection?

No.

OK wait, I have a bird related watch in my collection.

Oh no, how did I forget it?

I was going to say I feel confident that I have seen Sylvester on They Watched before on a Snoopy watch.

Wait.

What's Sylvester?

Isn't that the cat you're?

Just wait, who's the little bird?

From Snoopy Woodstock.

Oh, it's a Woodstock.

Yeah.

I was never really a big Snoopy person.

OK, Like the comics?

Honestly, you took this in a different direction.

I was going with real life birds, not cartoon birds, but I I.

You didn't specify I.

Did not specify it OK.

We are off the rails, OK.

Tell me.

OK, you have one in your collection.

OK, The Korano.

Oh yeah.

Toki, and the toki is named after.

It is actually the Japanese word for the crested Ibis, and that model has this deep warm coral red tone that Hachi Miyasuka.

Really.

But more pink.

Worked to get and it's inspired by birds, feathers, yeah.

OK, so I do have a bird watch.

Oh, I just thought of another bird watch.

OK, go for it.

There was a watch that I saw a few years.

Is it a?

Cartoon bird?

No, it's.

Not a cartoon bird is.

It a cartoon cat.

Where the dial was made from the feather of a Peacock.

OK.

Yeah.

And it was like very, you know, it was set in something probably, you know, so it wasn't just like a feather there.

But they used the actual feather use the.

Actual feather.

And it was very textured and beautiful.

And yeah, I remember seeing that and going, wow.

OK.

That's all I had to say about it.

Oh wow.

OK, so let me tell all of you why we're talking about birds today.

Please do our good friend Jeff who is an amazing bird photographer and for that's not his job, but it's a hobby.

He's an amazing hobbyist.

Hobbyist bird photographer and we discuss birds a lot because we when I both like bird watching.

And on Friday night, he sent us a link to a 2 hour documentary on YouTube called Listers, A glimpse into extreme bird watching.

It's 2 hipster brothers, Owen and Quinton Riser.

Yeah.

They go on an adventure to see how many words they can find for a lower 38.

So this is like, over the course of one full year.

Yeah.

In states the US.

The US lower 48 states, so it doesn't include Alaska and it doesn't include Hawaii.

They do one full year where they film, they go in a van where they spend every single night.

Owen is an amazing filmmaker.

The two of them are hilarious.

Don't watch it with your kids.

Yeah, I would say it's not.

Yeah, it's not language from, it's.

Not language or sometimes content from sometimes content, but it is amazing, Yeah, and.

And hilarious.

And hilarious.

And it really goes around.

I I mean, bird watchers and collectors watch collectors have a lot of similarities.

So this episode is about all the both positives and negatives of these two communities and how they how they coincide.

Like there are so many similarities as I was watching and I was like, you could just insert a video footage of me right now, OK.

Maybe you're going to get into this and now I'm afraid to ask, but OK, like have you looked up at all?

Because to me, I feel like birding is having more of a moment.

But it, it could also just be I'm at that age where my interest in birding has grown considerably from zero to quite interested in a fairly short period of time within five years.

You know, no, I think I first started taking pictures of birds maybe seven years ago, right.

And but I've noticed that recently I feel as though there's been more people talking about it.

And sometimes we feel that way only because we are interested.

So we notice it more.

But even one of the like camera gear review Youtubers that I've I've watched for years, potato jet.

He recently put out a video about he how he and his wife have gotten into bird watching.

We watched that video together.

It was super fun to watch.

And it, it just, it's so, and then I've, you know, this, this one you're talking about.

And there's been a few other things I've seen where I'm like, are more people getting into birding or are we all just aging into it?

And so now I'm at the age where more people are getting into.

There's a lot of memes about us all aging into it.

I mean, you have a time years ago where you were looking at binoculars.

Yes, and.

In the.

Store I.

Remember this?

Yes, you.

Came home and told me that, you know, the guy was like asking you about these binocular.

You were asking, you're talking about the binoculars.

And he said that a lot of people come in and they're like, oh, no, I, I'm not looking at birds.

And he's like, well, what are you looking at with binocular?

No.

No, no, hold on.

OK, OK.

OK, so I was looking at binoculars because we were adventuring and travelling a lot, and I wanted binoculars to look at things.

We had just gotten a boat.

I think, you know, I just want to be able to look at things, right?

And I go in and I'm like, hey, binoculars.

And it's actually one of the camera stores we go to and guys like, yeah, yeah, people, you know, what do you want to look at?

And I was like, I don't, I don't actually know.

I've never owned binoculars before.

So I'm just going to look at stuff.

You know, they're far away.

And then you look through binoculars and everything's closer.

He's like, yeah, a lot of people say that, but what they want to look at is birds because they're they're birders.

And I was like, really?

And he's like, yeah, people come in.

I'm like, oh, you binoculars.

What are you going to do with those binoculars?

No, not much.

Oh, do you?

Are you a birder?

Are you interested in birds?

No.

But what do you look at?

Birds.

Birds.

Yeah, I mean, it makes a lot of sense.

I feel like people are embarrassed to like looking at birds.

I.

Think maybe it's becoming cooler or more acceptable.

Yeah, maybe not cooler, but more.

Acceptable.

Yeah, more acceptable, but also.

Or we're just aging into not caring.

Exactly exactly as two people who have a watch collecting podcast.

True, I don't think cool is at the top of our.

List of words?

I don't think so.

I don't think so.

OK, there are so many parallels.

So it's not only from watching this documentary, but also I mean, I look at a lot of bird related memes that we send back and forth.

You me, Jeff.

Also, my sister Mindy has recently bought some binoculars when she was in the Pacific Northwest and just was like, birds are amazing, although they.

Were see her intention she got in through whales I think right because she was going whale watching she wanted.

To look at the birds too.

Yeah, always birds.

Because birds are cool now.

Also there's birds around around a lot more than whales, yes.

Exactly.

You get more use out of it if you look at some birds.

Exactly.

OK.

So there are a lot of parallels.

So I've done this in sort of a few categories parallels.

OK, that I see then some negatives and you can also chime in and well, I guess you're going to be part of this whole podcast, so you may chime in.

I don't have to.

I don't have to leave the room.

It's not a monologue.

And then positives, OK, we're going to end on positives.

OK, that sounds good, but some and if you don't like birds or watches, I'm sorry about this episode.

No, I think it's going to be really interesting even if you don't like those.

If you don't.

Like birds or watches.

What are you doing here?

No.

You can stay.

You're welcome.

OK.

No, I was.

Just curious the.

Big parallel or one of the parallels is this idea of like life lists and catalogs that's.

True so.

One thing they what they were doing is basically seeing how many birds they could get in birding.

It's called lifers and that's like birds you've seen.

You can also sometimes hear them and and both count.

It's for me this like idea of you keeping these lists of the watches we've owned or have owned or will own or what you have a lot of lists and catalogs every.

Watch that we've ever owned, although I don't have a list.

I thought about creating 11 time, but I was like, well, I remember everything of like all the watches I've worn on my wrist.

Yeah.

So that means I had to actually try it on or like, well, I borrowed it or and then I was like, who cares?

That's too far.

But.

If I was a birder?

Wait, I am a birder and I do have a bird life list, yes.

You have a bird life list, so there is this idea of this like cataloging.

You're seeing all of these different things.

And also just like with birds where you have like 1, you know, like sparrows, there are so many different kinds of sparrows.

With watches, it's very similar.

You have so many different types of.

Yeah.

And like if you think of Submariner references, OK, you're like, OK, baseline.

Yeah.

Are you calling the Submariner Submariner?

The Sparrow of watches, you know.

What?

I am OK, It's just a Sparrow.

Yeah.

There.

It's a little brown bird that has, you know, these tiny differences.

And this is a watch that has, you know, one has a date, one has a no date, one has a these small reference.

Numbers.

And differences, but in watch, yeah, in watch collecting, like you want to know all those tiny differences, whereas to an outside person they're like, it's a, it's a black.

Watch and this.

Is a tiny brown bird who?

Cares.

OK.

OK.

I'm with you so far, OK.

Also And and I think the life lists of like how many birds you've seen over your lifetime.

There are some parallels to me for like a grail, grail watches, whether it's watches you want to see, like for me, a Cartier crash.

I want to try one on the wrist.

Still haven't.

So that's like this thing where it's like you're waiting for it.

I really want to try this.

They call.

That in birding, but there are these grail birds basically like I want to see one.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

And sometimes people travel really far to see that.

That's kind of in some of the later, later topics, but.

OK, later topics.

OK.

And then you have this idea of rare birds, which also sometimes in watch collecting, people will call watches like a rare bird, you know this, this rare, rare watch.

And so rarity in both birding and watch collecting are big topics that I think only the people in Yeah in the hobby care about.

I agree.

Well, because if you think about rarity, this is the interesting thing about rarity.

Rarity on its own doesn't make something valuable.

There are plenty of watches where there are only a few copies in the whole world.

No one cares, right?

So it's it's rarity alone isn't enough, it has to be rare.

And but I think that applies probably more to watches than to birds.

Like if there's three of a bird in the world, that should be a big deal.

Yeah, you would kind of imagine.

Yeah, you'd.

Be like, hey, let's, let's help them have more.

Oh.

OK, so now you're breeding birds.

Well, I'm out of extinction.

OK, I I think you've got I.

I'm not personally breeding them out of extinction.

Too deep.

OK.

And then you have this idea about a big year.

So a big year is where someone tries to find as many birds as possible.

That's what the guys were doing in the documentary because they were looking for in the lower 48 states, how many birds they could see.

Yeah.

A big year is defined by January 1st through December 31st and is within the region that you specify for yourself.

Yes.

So you could do a big year in your country, in your state, or like lower 48 in the US.

Like there's many different kinds of big years, including world worldwide big year, yes.

You can also watch the amazing video The Big Year with Owen Wilson, Jack Black and Steve.

Yeah, it's a.

Movie, it's really.

Fun when?

Was that movie?

It's like 2.

Thousand yeah.

Oh, OK, just a a fun, a fun movie that really, really get like, you understand birding a lot more.

Honestly, when we first watched that movie, we weren't that interested in birding.

And then we rewatched it later after we had done some birding and you're like, oh, they they did some research.

Yeah.

You totally get it.

OK.

And then the last one as these far as far as these like really clear parallels before we go into the negatives is that there are so like you do a lot of field work in either 1.

You really have to learn a lot and there is an amount of knowledge that you will never, you will never know as much as there is to know.

And I mean, that's about many topics.

But I think for these two, it's really interesting because you have birders, they're spending hours in the field, they're waiting, they're learning habitats, they're traveling to hotspots.

It's like patience, luck.

And then if you think about collectors, we're spending hours on forums doing deep dives, talking to you're like listening.

To.

Oh my God, what are you?

Doing with your life.

No, thank you for being here.

We.

Appreciate.

You listening to us and so you really have this like depth of knowledge for both of these where you know in this documentary that the guys did the thing I loved is they went from no knowledge.

So they really they they couldn't identify other than maybe a few birds.

And then you see how deep they go.

And if you imagine following a watch collector or when I think about myself, how I went from like, that's a watch.

That's a watch.

OK, maybe I know that Rolex because it's a Sparrow called a submariner.

I'm sorry to all our sub owners here, but you know, I said what I said, I stick by it.

But you really just, you see this, this huge progression like that goes so quickly to where all of a sudden, I know terminology, I understand all of these things.

I know more brands.

And so that's why for me, watching this documentary of the like, 0 to going fully deep in was so compelling.

Even if you're not a bird watcher, I think that's why it's so interesting, yeah.

Well, for one thing, it's a very funny.

So that part that, that that makes it makes it easier.

Even though that I wouldn't say the humor is 100 represent my style of humor through parts of it, it's still quite funny.

And OK, as you're saying this, like even for the past few years, we, we are not hardcore birders at all.

We own binoculars.

I own a very long lens for my camera and when convenient we photograph or look at birds.

We live in a place where there are tons of birds and really cool birds.

And we also visit a few places like our favorite, what we call it forest pizza Karshemra.

Like when we go there, there their farm where they make pizza and and grow the vegetables and stuff that they used to make their pizzas.

Like the on the way there, you have to drive through one of those lakes that is used by breeding and migratory birds.

And so it's like there's a lot going on.

So we don't we haven't that often gone way out of our way yet in our kind of bird enjoyment journey.

But over the years I've thought, well, I will never be able to identify all these tiny differences in birds.

Like my brain doesn't work that way.

But as you're talking through this.

When it comes to.

Watches, I can identify so many things, and also there's so many things that I can't, right?

Like, I know there's a depth of knowledge that I don't have, but it feels attainable in watches, whereas for some reason in birds it hasn't until now because I'm like, Oh, yeah, no, the same brain applies, Yeah.

You're, you're learning all of these differences and it's because of it's something that you're passionate about.

So that's what I love about any collector communities and I, you know, birding has this collector aspect to.

It you don't take them home, no.

You collect.

Them too you do not.

Take those birdies home.

You collect them on your list, but.

Also, in watches you're not always you're not taking them home even if you want.

To you don't get to take them all, OK, Fair.

That is fair.

OK.

So I put together some negatives because I think that, yeah, it's interesting to see the parts that are not good.

Obviously I don't want to do that at the end of the episode because I always like to end on happiness.

But can you think of any negatives that these two hobbies share?

I mean, you mean outside of obsession or spending money?

Because those are two big ones.

We're going.

To talk about those two, OK, So do you want to start with obsession then yes, OK, go for it.

I, well, I I think many.

As a serial hobbyist, I often find myself completely lost in a hobby to the detriment of other things in my life.

I have not found myself that way with birds.

Yet, yeah, it's a yes.

It's not a.

It's not an if I am.

A very casual birder and have we haven't even done like a birding trip.

We've talked about it, but we've never actually done it with watches.

However, I have made big life decisions around watches, right?

For sure amounts.

Of money I have spent and allocated to watches.

Amount of time, I mean, well, you know.

Don't start calculating the time.

How much?

Time have we spent just making this podcast, but we've travelled many places specifically because of watches outside of the country, inside of the country would go to events.

We know people, there are people who are very important in our lives because of watches.

All of that is tied to this, for me at least, this kind of obsession with this industry, with the watches and of course with the people who are involved in them.

And so that, yes, OK, I, I said it as the, those are a bunch of positive things.

What's they are, but it can also be a huge drain on your energy and your attention that could be going to other things.

So I, I've spoken to people who are like, yeah, I, I have to back away a little because it's, it's consuming me and I, I understand that feeling.

So that that can be a big negative when, when it becomes all consuming.

I could assume that birding would do that to people as well.

Yeah.

I think what I saw in the documentary that I related to is this sort of obsession with numbers.

So they talked a lot about, you know, the people who were who are really like, dedicated.

They're on this list.

They're trying to be the top birder.

And you really see that competition in the watch community community too, whether it's auctions.

I mean, I talked about going to the auctions in Geneva last year.

You didn't love it.

I was so disconnected from it because, you know, they only clapped if someone spent over 1,000,000 Swiss francs, you know, and there's just this, this feeling of it being about acquiring something and not about the joy of it.

I mean, that's putting a lot of judgement on into that situation.

But it's, it's more of like the feeling you come away with.

Whereas you go to like an event with watch collectors of all different, you know, levels of collect or not.

Let's see again, not levels, but all different monetary value of collecting.

And you're just excited to see everyone's watch.

That to me is such a nicer space because it's so much more open and.

It also can in in if we're sticking to the negative side of what you're talking about is like that.

There's a judgement based on rarity that doesn't always need to exist there.

It's like when we went on our first ever safari.

We get in this really cool vehicle and they're driving us around and the first thing you see is Zebra 'cause there's.

Quite a few zebra in the wild.

It's wow so.

Cool these zebra.

Then you go through some brush and you're in another plane and you're like, oh, cool zebra.

Like look more zebra.

We talked about the zebra.

Keep going.

And you see a giraffe and it's like, oh, yeah.

And then you go around another corner.

It's like, oh zebra, like.

Zebra.

Really.

Really, Zebra, like, can't you just go away?

And I feel that watches are the same way, watches that you've seen before or that are fairly common, like the little sparrows Submariners.

You're like, who cares?

But there is still the person who has it probably has a huge joy for it.

And I think we can celebrate that more and be better about that and not only be excited to see things that we personally haven't seen before because there's still an enjoyment to be had there.

It's.

Like seeing, yeah, you just want to check off this list.

So that's what I think I see as negative also.

I mean, there's like the environmental or financial costs.

All.

To both, I mean, birders can be traveling really long distances, spending a lot of money.

Collectors do exactly the same thing.

It's part of that obsession, I think level and like figuring out what actually makes sense for you and your life.

That also ties into the part that I think is bad in both, which is that money and access is like if you have more reset resources, you get more access, yeah.

Of course I.

Mean in in birding that's being able to just like, OK tomorrow I'm flying across the country yeah, time off or going anywhere you want and we see that in collecting and I think there was 1 birder and he was talking about how when you don't when you only talk about these experiences far away, you neglect that there are a lot of amazing experiences nearby.

And to me that reminds me of like local communities and like watch collecting events that are smaller.

We all see these huge things.

It's just was Geneva watch days so many of my friends with oh, I wish I would have gone down to Geneva and you get this like, you know, fear of missing out FOMO and you're just wishing like, oh, I wish I would be there.

But sometimes, you know, you have to stop and think about all of the things you have, where you are.

And so when you have these money access, you know, this, that those are the things that I see as really negative in the industry and negative in the sense of people aren't always talking about like privilege.

And you know, just how much we all have even to be just discussing this topic for hours or listening to it.

So I, I see that as something that, you know, is a, is a negative side.

It mainly just in, especially when people don't actually think about what it means, what that means.

Yeah, I agree.

Tied into that is elitism and.

Gatekeeping.

I was wondering if this would come up.

Yeah, for sure.

I.

Mean you have like again, this is similar it's like experienced birders they've seen like can you still be excited about seeing the Seiko or the submariner?

And I think there are some people who won't be yeah.

And then that we're at least.

Talking about it we're.

Talking.

Yeah, way right.

Like, OK, I am not excited when I see watches that I've already seen many, many, many times or watches that I own that are common, right?

Sometimes you'd be very exciting to see someone else wearing a watch that you own.

But if it's like when I had my Speedmaster over time, it wasn't like every time I saw a Speedmaster on.

So I was like, that's amazing.

However, how we react to other people's excitement, I think that's where we could be more generous.

And drive community then.

Because that does drive community, because it's more welcoming to newer people who haven't gone through the journey, who aren't tired of the same old watches yet, who don't feel like, oh, there's all these overrated watches to them.

They're just coming in and being very excited.

And if we can share that enthusiasm with them, even if we don't personally feel it as much, it's like that welcomes them into the space in a way that is not the typical for many people who are coming in.

They're excited to see the first Sparrow or submariner.

And you're like, oh, that, who cares?

Seen that a million times.

Why are you excited about that?

And I do see that.

I haven't seen that in person.

That would be horrifying.

But I see it online a lot.

Yeah.

I think, and that's the thing for most people, their first experience in watches is putting something online.

And I think you talked about that recently, someone posted like a regular watch they were excited about.

Some people are just like, who cares?

But it's their first watch.

They're jumping into a community.

And for us, I mean, we've, we've built like our brand on sharing knowledge and including people.

So I really get I get really mad about it.

I actually your.

Mad sound.

No, I, I as.

Ferocious as a chickadee.

No, I mean I have a little ferociousness, especially like looking at the Geneva watch Days panels, every panel had only one woman on it, even if there were maybe 8 men.

And I just felt like, OK, come on, it's 2025.

I have so many female journalists, collectors, enthusiasts, friends, influencer friends who are there in Geneva.

Could we not make it more inclusive?

So to me, this part of the that elite group who says like, no, we define what you know, everything is we define even I've complained about it like what is a collector?

We've defined a collector we've defined.

Oh, they are just, they only like watches.

They don't collect and all of this.

I just have no time for my.

Favorite.

My favorite My favorite qualifying word.

True.

A true A true.

Collector.

A true enthusiast, a true GMT even right?

Like the true is what is used to define what is you.

Know where you can take your true.

I'm not going to say it, but you can know where.

Eventually there's bird puns you could have made.

No, I anything I say it's going to get bad quickly.

OK, so to me, those are some of the like the negatives, the downsides.

And then the last one I think we've all felt and in the documentary, they show this really well, which is the burnout.

You've gone too hard, too far too fast.

And you you started a.

Daily Podcast.

Dummies.

You.

You.

Get this feeling of like the joy has drained out of it because it becomes OK, like you need to do this.

You need to get this.

I think some of my collection, like the watches I have purchased, I know they were influenced by wanting to be cool or to fit in or to have.

I mean, I've never done.

That, but I understand how to have.

The thing And then it starts to make you feel burnt out because you're like, OK, I shouldn't have done that.

I lost money on it.

It wasn't a smart just.

And all of those things I think can really, yeah, when it's like take some of the joy out and then you have to step back and think about why you're doing it and what things you really like and how to be like a positive influence and then.

There's the sharing side of that as well because like there's the collecting itself and you can literally burn out on that and realize, I mean, I've spoken to multiple people who are like, I've gone too far like and and not because they are in financial ruin over buying a bunch of watches.

I haven't spoken to a ton of people about that If.

You are.

Stop listening to this podcast, please.

Move on and go.

Sort your lifeout.

I'm sorry, but no, do not stay I.

I I'm talking more on the just kind of like I'm over it, right?

But there's the other side for us especially like whether it's creating contents or not even being an influencer, but just like having an Instagram account that's about watches, I see people burn out all the time, including myself.

Yeah.

As someone who hasn't posted since June, I definitely identify with that.

Burn out for me is mainly creative burnout.

It was that overtime, like I've never wanted to be a professional watch photographer.

So overtime I've kind of felt tapped out on the style that I had created before myself.

Like I did not create it, I didn't invent it, but the the style of photography I was doing, I enjoyed it for a while and then after 100 or so photos I was just kind of over it.

And I haven't really been inspired to do something new.

And so my last few photos I've posted like that style of photography that I do, I can do those photos in zero time, right?

I mean, they don't require thought from me to do that.

Like just a well lit studio style portrait of a watch like that is a very easy thing for me because I've been a photographer for over 2 decades.

So like, what I want to do is challenge myself to do something new and interesting or maybe bring in more storytelling, but I haven't gone that route.

But I'm burnt out on my photos.

No, I.

Understand that I mean, I can also feel that way.

It's like, what are we going to talk about watches?

OK, what's what like this this feeling though, I've just sometimes you're so far behind in a way.

And I think that burnout is also part of this idea of like, OK, I don't have enough money.

I can't get this watch.

I can't.

And all of a sudden it's like taking the joy out.

Whereas there are so many, like, amazing things.

So I'm going to trans transition us.

OK, good.

Because we spent no.

I know I spent some.

Time on those I know, but.

They are they are negatives and we don't normally talk about the negatives of the of the hobby, but I really saw no, but I really saw a lot of them like I saw myself in the birders in.

The birders.

OK, but to before we move to positive, can you think of another bird watch?

Another bird watch.

Yes, well.

Now you've opened up my mind a little bit because, you know, even just bringing up the Corono Tokyo Toki, I was like, oh, I hadn't thought about that.

That's technically like connected to this bird, however, no.

OK then my mind is blank.

OK, can.

I give you I'll give you a brand, OK?

Grand Seiko Grand.

Seiko Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'll watch.

You you really loved in the movement.

Well, no, OK, I didn't need that last hit every.

Hint I had.

Already basically.

Already seen I had.

Already gotten there, yes.

So when Grand Seiko released their new high beat manual wind movement, like one of the this was watches and wonders.

Last year, 2024 watches and wonders.

One of the cool things about that movement was they put so much effort into the winding action.

And a big part of that is the click, which anyway, go look it up.

It's beautiful.

I'll I'll put a link in the show notes.

They made the click look like a wagtail.

I mean, it looks like a bird, which is a really.

Cute little bird that has a long tail that really like wags.

I mean, OK, we've, we've described this before and it's just.

It's a bird with a tail, and it wags its.

Name is very descriptive.

It is what it is and.

I've tried to find out like, you know, there are theories as to why they're wagging their tails but not definitive, you know, research that has shown with confidence what it's about.

But anyway, they are very cute.

Wagtails are amazing.

I love that the local birds to one of the studios for Grand Seiko are the same local birds that we have here, right?

That we have wagtails in our neighborhood all the time.

Well, not all the time because they are seasonal, but like during their season they are all over the place and I love them and they're so cute putting.

Birds in a movement is like next level cool.

Yeah, well, yeah, cool.

Well, the cool is in quotes, but it's fine.

The cool is in air.

Quotes.

Cool.

For all those birders slash slash watch collectors.

Yeah, I forgot.

About.

That Grand Seiko.

It also has two other ones.

Are they dials?

Dials, yeah, they have a heritage collection high beat GMT that features a green dial with an intricate stamped pattern that looks like the plumage of a Peacock.

Oh, OK.

And then they also have AUS edition.

It's called the Aurori.

And then that's based on a blue and white flycatcher.

And again, it's the a radiant blue dial with a sun ray finish.

And it's the birds delicate feathers.

Yeah.

So very, very lots of birds.

I have one more and when I say it, but I'll wait until the end because I think you'll be like, oh, because it's actually the most popular one.

Oh, I'll think about it, OK.

Positives do you have?

Do you want to pick some positives of these like the two I.

Know what your top positive will be guaranteed.

I know what it is and it is community.

Yes, it's the.

People.

Dedicated communities, yeah.

And like this deep sense of connection, yeah.

I mean, that's a I assume that is why a lot of people listen to our podcasts.

That's why we listen to other podcasts and consume things on YouTube and have been a part of this Instagram watch community for quite a long time now.

And for what, like 3 weeks?

We were also part of, I don't even remember what it's called now, the chat app during COVID.

Oh.

Clubhouse.

Oh, clubhouse.

Yeah, what a weird big deal.

For a short time, yeah.

That sense of community, it's part of why people do a lot of things or a big part of the enjoyment of things they would be doing regardless, right?

So you don't necessarily get into watches for the community, but perhaps the community and the enabling nature of the watch community is a good reason to stay and and be more involved than you would otherwise.

Because a lot of people collect things and do not interact with other collectors or the online community.

They're just like happily living their own lives, collecting the thing and doing their own deal, right.

And then that the people we interact in the watch community because they're part of it.

A big part of that for them is also this kind of sense of community actually.

But that's the thing we we say like the watch community, it's.

Many, many.

It's the same as birding, so.

Many communities, sub communities and we can all.

Go across different communities, like, OK, we have this, you know, these type of friends that we discussed this type of watch and we have these friends.

Yeah, that's very true.

Obviously it's always this is always like the winner for me is the community.

I think in the documentary I really highlighted that by these guys are just driving around and they're meeting up with lots of people.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I see that echoed in my watch collecting is like I can go so many places and there are watch collectors that I could meet U with if I wanted to you.

Have in the past few years, like almost everywhere you've gone, you have met up with someone that you met online through watches or at a watch event.

Yeah, that's pretty.

It's.

Really cool.

So I mean, I was thinking about this actually this morning and it wasn't related to the podcast.

I do this daily little 5 minute journal and it's you know some gratitude things and I was just thinking about how much watches have given me new friends around the world yes best friends very like Britt Britt Pierce time with you like just time we spend together that.

You meant me, You.

You said time with you.

I was like, who are you talking about?

Me time with you, time with Boo.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's giving me travel, it's giving me me a new career as I started my my brand consultancy and my you know, my big client is normal Sclasute, a brand I love and have, you know, talked about so often and cared about for so long.

It's.

Also, Oh, go ahead.

No.

And I was going to say, even for relationships I already have like that.

Was where I was going my.

Family like doing the podcast, talking about watches.

We have so many more stories that we share.

We have things that we talk about, you know, from the podcast episodes.

My sister and my parents talk about the episodes together.

It's just a really, it's brought so much.

And I think that level of connection in any hobby, to me is what keeps you in it.

Because the thing, whether it's birds or watches, it can only go so far if you don't have the connections to, in my personal opinion, what?

For your personality.

For my personality, I.

I I know there are many people who like.

I would prefer to be a small hermit living alone in my shell sometimes.

I feel that way.

But anyway, I totally agree.

I also think that like, it's been very interesting for me because I don't try to talk to everyone about watches, right?

It is one of those things especially because if you're collecting what, what the average person might consider to be a very expensive thing, then maybe you don't just try to talk to everyone about it 'cause you may feel weird about that, right?

I mean, I don't really have that filter.

However, I still don't like jump into it with everyone, but it follows me into things because I meet a lot of people through people I already know, right?

Like most of us do.

And then it's like your stories come with you.

So what I've found is really interesting is that last point you made is like the having deeper connections with people you already know because of watches, but not because you both had a secret love for watches and never talked about it.

But it's actually that burgeoning interest from people who weren't previously that interested.

And so I have helped so many new watch buyers choose their new watch, find their new watch, purchase their new watch like part of.

The whole process?

Yeah, the whole.

Process and it's not.

Everyone has to go to you for that because you're so analytical and then you breathe this depth of knowledge and perspective.

I'm saying it in a very positive, OK.

OK, that sounded horrible.

No, I'm like.

Come over here and this nerd will sort you out, no?

But I meant you really are very thoughtful, like you really think it through.

That's what I mean by analytical.

So I have, I have definitely helped a lot of people spend a lot of money.

Well, yeah, you're known for that actually.

And, and I, I like that there, there's a joy in helping someone find something that they love.

I, I really, I really think that that to me, that's a huge part of what I enjoy about watches is even through this podcast, right?

We'll do Q&A or people write to us directly quite often asking for just a little advice.

And maybe they don't follow the advice at all.

But I'd like to think that we still help them have new thoughts about what they want or don't want and what they might consider and what to look out for and maybe help them get to that perfect thing and that.

We all have such different thoughts and philosophies and taste and taste, which becomes really, I think a good thing thing because then that's really how you expand the hobby even more.

OK, Another one that I see as a positive.

And it's really interesting to me because both of them, it's a analog in a digital world.

Oh.

Yeah.

Even though we have apps we have, I mean, you're listening to this on a device, but there's still something about this like mindfulness and appreciation of whether it's a bird and you're looking at all the details of it and like watching, like observing everything about it.

Then you have the same thing like with watches.

It's the attention to the craft, the detail, the design, the movement, these tiny parts.

And yeah, I find that really fascinating.

I.

I mean, yeah, of course there's a digital component to the way that people enjoy everything these days.

Not not every person every way, but like for a huge part of enjoyment these days is digital.

But I totally agree that both of these are at their core analog activities and a.

Slow down.

Yeah, there's.

It's about appreciating something that physically exists, right?

And there is a joy in that, and even in the way that you do that, right.

I don't know if somewhere on your list you have like accessories, but gear and accessories is a part of both of these.

Hobbies.

Yeah, very much so many.

Hobbies and for both of them they are quite physical, right?

So if you are into birds, even if you don't want to photograph them like you'll probably buy binoculars which are these awesome and and high tech precision instruments but also.

Even A4 timey ones.

Yeah, yeah, both of these things have been around for still long.

Their binoculars.

Have been and monoculars have been around for a very long time.

And you can have vintage ones.

Yeah, and, and, and still enjoy the hobby.

Oh.

Now I really want to go down a deep path of like if murders get into vintage binoculars.

The thing is.

But then you're not like the negatives of collecting, no?

But unlike watches where yes, of course, there are physical downsides to some vintage watches.

They may not be as waterproof, they may not be as durable.

They may not be as easy to replace parts.

You know there's all these caveats, right?

However, I think in general, vintage watches probably have less downsides than vintage optics.

Yeah, because optical technology we're on.

The positives Foo on the analogue and a digital world not allowed.

To go back in time.

Returning to our roots back in time is a positive thing.

I'm.

All about the positives.

It's all I see, all I do.

But I both of them, they really, if you they can slow life down and I think that's really interesting.

I.

Yes, I, I think, well, maybe burning even more, but like, both of them can be a source of calm in your life.

Yeah, I think the enjoyment of watches when you're alone, like when you wind a watch in the morning, when you're setting the time or when you're just glancing down at your wrist, those feel like very intimate moments that can also be part of this calm and then going out and looking at birds.

I have I I mean, I assume if you're doing a big year and you're really trying to hit these huge numbers of hundreds of birds in a year, it can be stressful.

But for the average birder, we're walking outside.

Oh yeah, hold.

On when you walk outside to look at these birds like you bring a pair of binoculars or a camera or just your phone and you use an app and it listens to the bird song and it'll tell you what birds it hears which is a huge help because then when you see them it's much easier to identify them like that is one of the most calming things that I know of is just going out and listening because it's part of being in nature it's part of all of that I.

Think it's so nice and honestly this is a a horrible admission, but I admission, but I hardly ever see the birds.

We have very tiny birds here in our forest.

They're they're truly like we see.

Lots of big birds pictures.

Yeah, but these are the cutest little birds.

Yes.

And I'm listening to them, and I have my binoculars, and I'm just sitting on the porch trying to find these little babies.

But they're small and they're fast and they're gone.

But it doesn't take away from the mindfulness.

Like it.

The whole thing is just like, oh, OK, I can spend 40 minutes.

I'm just mainly looking at tree branches.

I don't know, you know what kind of hobby that is, but you know, every once in a while you see this little bird and you're like, I got it.

What's?

A bird that locally you have been able to hear but never see.

I have one that I think.

Go ahead, Gold Crest.

Yeah, I have.

Not seen it but I've heard it.

So many gold.

Crest has this really high pitched little sound and they're so cute.

They have the peppercorn eye.

They have a little yellow like.

Mohawk a little.

Yellow, but it doesn't.

Actually stick up and.

They're tiny birds.

Yeah, Yeah, a little yellow stripe.

They're tiny birds.

They're called the kingsbird here.

They're the smallest bird in Sweden.

Yeah, I have seen them like, once.

And they're the cutest thing ever.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Watches are less cute than birds.

Yeah.

But still fascinating and.

Still something.

It is a different different way of doing something you can.

Really.

Look at a long time.

I think that's the cool part about it.

Yeah.

OK.

The other one I would say is this idea of learning and discovering, like we said, it can go deep into into obsession with numbers, but I like when the obsession is really learning.

And I mean, with birding, you can learn so much about nature, geography, you're listening to bird songs.

And then with watches, it's really history, engineering design.

Like, I've learned so much just about the world through watches and I think that's so cool and.

Manufacturing and how things work, Yeah.

I mean, obviously there's no like version of open case backs on birds where you can learn about the inner working that.

Now that sounds really gross.

OK.

I mean, you can just look up things about how birds like their lifestyle.

No, I know.

But like with a watch, you can just look at it and see the mechanism.

Positive and please stop now.

You're talking about cutting open birds.

No, I didn't I.

Never said that.

I said if they had open case, no, we could learn more about how they work.

Nope.

Poor birdies, I'm sorry.

OK.

And then stories that last, like I feel that these are things that there's so much memory like added into either the object, the buying of, you know, this moment in time that you have with a watch, But then also with birds.

It's like, oh, when we were out here, we saw this bird and you have.

I think that's what keeps you from burnout is if you can have these stories and these moments that feel like you're not just doing a list or an object or checking off.

Okay, I saw that bird, but you're just there like, Oh, this is this is so cool, so nice.

Other night we were walking and we just heard an owl and I was like, I was like, I think it's an or a cat Ugla if you're in Sweden.

I was like, oh, I heard this bird sound.

I'm not sure what it is, but Voo, I think it's an owl.

You did.

Say that and.

It's sure there's something really magical about that.

It's the same way as I still feel like watch spotting.

Yes, and I'll be like, hey, OK, no, I'm sure that and you and I might get in a small debate.

No, I'm sure it's this one.

And then we look real creepy creeping up on the person trying.

To get OK, positive, positive wait.

Am IA negative person?

Well, you can't be positive during this, no matter how hard I.

Don't know if I can make every single word and thought only about the positives.

OK, you have to sometimes balance it out with.

This is the.

Creepy stalking.

OK, well, this kind of goes into what I'm going to call the positives, which is that we are all weirdos.

Yeah, there there's this.

Like when I watched the documentary, I was like, OK, you have all of these people.

They're so deep into this.

It's such a niche thing.

And then I think about watches and I know we're all characters.

We're all, we all have this.

Our own philosophy is our own way of thinking.

The The thing is about being weird is I think every single everybody is weird to someone else, right?

Because.

The hobby of watches.

Oh.

It's so odd.

It's it it it depends on the how niche something is though.

So if your hobby is watching football, like that's not considered weird because it's very common right?

But if your hobby is bird watching, which actually is way more common, I think it's because people don't admit how how interested they are in birds.

But like or collecting watches which is genuinely fairly niche in the modern day.

Like it just seems weird to other people that someone else would care about something so much that they don't care about, right.

And I think that's how we get this kind of like labeling of each other as like, Oh yeah, that persons quirky.

They're into this weird thing, when in reality it's just.

People.

It's just that everyone's interested in something and if it's not what you're interested in and also not a predefined category of like these easy things you can just be into, whether it's sports or whatever that thing is.

Like these very common things.

You're like, oh, that person's into gaming.

Gaming is huge.

That's not weird.

It was before when gaming wasn't nearly as big, but now it's not weird, right?

So all of these things are only weird to those on the outside, but I think that's that helps us all have that unique identity.

Oh no.

Was I being negative?

No.

You were being positive.

I liked it.

You gave.

Me a look and I was like, Oh no, no.

It was good because it leads directly into my like my next point.

Yeah.

So I was just very impressed.

It's that which I think this is just a, this is my like, funny.

It's not positive or negative, but there was this moment that I resonated with so much.

Guys are in the documentary.

I'm not going to spoil how many birds they saw, but they go and they say we saw this amount of birds this year and the woman is like cool.

And there's just something great about what I would say is just like normies don't care a normal person and the amount of times I've been somewhere and you know, you're like you're so we're all so into it.

You're so.

You're like, look at that bird.

It's like it's a bird.

Look at that watch.

It's a watch.

And I think there's honestly, to me, I find that kind of delightful too, because it's good to like be put in your place in a way where you're like, OK, you know what?

This isn't every everyone's hobby.

This isn't everyone's love it.

Is definitely not.

We've sat down at a restaurant with a watch group and people are like, well, what do you, what do you all do together?

We collect watches and we talk about it, and people are usually very kind and interested, but sometimes you see their face and they're like, what?

Yeah.

All right.

Yeah, it's a, it can be a very strange thing to be.

I also believe that most of us, although we want to belong and, and so the community side is very important because like belonging to something and having things in common with others and that shared experience is amazing.

But we also want to be our own person, right?

And so there's a uniqueness we're looking for as well of like how you can be also an individual and have things that are unique to you and your own experience and your own likes and desires.

And that's where I think the collections are so interesting because even to people who are like, I mainly collect black dialed sports watches and I focus on dive watches, their collections can be completely different, right?

Because even if they have a similar overlook, they really can be completely different in price, in execution, in time period, in all of these different things that because there's so many levels to what watches are but.

Both hobbies are kind of infinite in this way of like one more, Yeah, I mean.

Birds are less infinite.

They're infinite because they're, you know, species are going extinct.

Oh, no.

Oh, no.

He went.

He went.

Straight to extinct birdies.

I mean from zero to extinct birdies.

If once I'm just.

Saying there's not.

I know.

It's not as infinite as.

Much as there are less pieces, but.

I'm saying more like even if someone dedicated like their whole life, there's probably still just one more bird that they would have to see because it's it's difficult to even find all of them, is there?

Someone who can claim that they have seen every bird that we have as a known non extinct species.

The.

Highest amount is someone got to 10,000 / 10,000 and I think that's like a very big accomplishment in his whole life.

I.

Would say that's a big accomplishment of anything if I Yeah.

That's true 10.

1000 different watch models.

I mean, at some point you will hit that it's different because you see so many.

I'm not talking about pictures.

Yeah.

But even in person, yeah, OK, a couple more quick reflections I had.

I think that the healthy approach, and I mean you and I talk about this a lot, is like curiosity over competition.

Yeah, watch collecting, birding.

I'm not saying.

Competition is wrong though.

I will not say no because I do think some people enjoy a little.

I'm not competitive.

I love this saying.

It's wrong, but I'm saying for my joy, for the joy I get from it.

The other thing I think is really interesting is that the core joy of it is free for both.

You can just look at a bird and appreciate it.

No binoculars, just looking up.

And the same with watches, you can just appreciate them.

And I think the more we we all as a community and as nerds who listen and do podcasts about watches.

Think that the more we're able to welcome new people into the community that it is truly like there is For me, there is no barrier to entry it's.

Because if we're talking about what an enthusiast is and what enthusiasm is, it has nothing to do with ownership.

Like sure, you can start getting into like what defines a collector and you know, how many do you have to own to be a collector and that kind of stuff.

But like, that aside, I think mostly we're talking about watch enthusiasm as opposed to watch collecting.

And then, yeah, watch.

Enthusiasm is free.

And both of them are something that make you stop and notice and like, isn't that sort of the meditation in it and the excitement in it and the joy that you can share with other people?

I.

Like that.

So that was great.

Yeah, I, I mean, there were so many similarities, yeah.

No, when you got started, I was like, this is not an episode, and then here we are and now we're in.

And you're like, I have a lot more negative thoughts I have.

So many.

Let me tell you the downsides of birding and watch collecting, OK?

OK.

And the last question for you, Val.

Yes, a very popular watch.

OK, inspired by a bird.

Yeah, uh huh, Uh huh.

Can.

You think of it?

No.

Not right now, for some reason.

Oh.

Alpine Eagle, Yeah, OK.

The Alpine Eagle, Yes.

And it is actually, Yep.

The bird's eye.

And I mean, it's a hugely popular watch from a, you know, it's a Superman.

Dial 1.

It's my favorite, yes, And that's.

A salmon dial eagle eye so you get a little weirdo seed salmon.

See, it all comes together.

It's all connected.

OK, and with that, we are at our the best recommendations and mine is going to be watch watch the documentary.

It's super fun, great shooting.

It's very hipster.

Again, it's called Listers, A glimpse into extreme bird watching.

It's on YouTube.

It was just a good time.

It was super.

It's 2.

Hours long you can.

Watch, but you can watch it a small amount here, a small amount there.

And then if you do this homework, I sound like form and function if you if you do it.

But even if you didn't, I would love to know like do you see any other similarities or differences in these hobbies?

And I just.

Want to hear people's thoughts about it because it's it is it is a fun time.

It's a fun time.

OK, my the best.

We recently had a friend come in from out of country and stay with us.

It was a short visit.

It was only three nights, but I did a lot of prep for it because we haven't had a guest here for a long time, I think.

Yeah.

Maybe and.

What it did was light a little fire under my butt to.

Like under your tail feathers under.

My tail feathers to complete some projects that were in process in our house.

That is true.

I was in Florida, so this was the you were away the best every.

Night I worked on this house every single night like that was my night time activity every night while you were gone and not the first three nights.

But anyway, so I think like OK, it was enjoyable on multiple levels.

So what I'm saying is invite someone to your house who's never been there before and it has to be an overnight because you get to, well, freak out a little bit and clean up your house.

You get to probably make improvements that you've wanted to make for a while because suddenly there is this deadline and an impetus to do it.

And it's also a joy to share your home with other people.

I have forgotten that as, yes, someone who isn't the most, you know, non hermit around, I can sometimes lock just myself up in the house.

You happen to be there too.

And I really think it can be joyful to share your life with others in that way.

Yeah.

And now you've made the house so pretty.

I'm just telling everyone like, oh, you can stay in our guest room.

Come on down.

So.

Having one person come over and me making a number of improvements to.

Our house that we had.

Planned on making now Lydia's inviting multiple other people.

I'm like.

Come to the Stockholm.

Yes, Swedish forest.

It's absolutely beautiful.

So I guess or don't do what I said and then you won't have a bunch of guests, Yeah.

Okay, I'm gonna do one more, which is if you do even kind of like birds, I would suggest following our good friend Jeff.

His Instagram is at Jeff dot Rivet RIVAIT.

And one thing I think is amazing is that it says that he is a bird enthusiast.

So similarly, we use the same words in the hobby because I am a watch enthusiast and also a bird enthusiast.

And with that, I hope you have a wonderful week of birds and watches, Birds and watches.

Well, you don't have to do the bird thing, do.

It OK, birdies are cute.

Bye.