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Previously on Wiscrack.

So after joining met with Brett's dad, she came at me with all these questions, really serious ones like did I insert myself into this whole story for attention, fame, glory, money, a free Tesla, an exclusive Nando's black card, maybe just to finally get on the prices right, which, by the way, I would crush except.

Only during the Bob Barker era.

Rest in peace for a real one, Drew Carey, I love you, mate, but the soul left with the skinny mic.

Anyway, After she threw all that at me, after she made some pretty good points, I told her to fuck off, which makes this all a little bit awkward.

Why am I still here?

Why am I doing a recap for a podcast that might have just exposed me as a pathological liar with a flair for murder adjacent stand up material.

I don't know, but you're here, I'm here, We're here, So let's both just shut up and finish the story, shall we?

Strap in?

This is the final episode of Wisecrack Never sing you look and love was right.

I don't know the rest of the words.

As he drove me to Heathrow, Ed was quiet, processing everything we'd been through on this trip.

We said our goodbyes and he told me he needed some time, that he'd reach out.

But after arriving back in Atlanta, days turned into weeks turned into months, not a word from Ed.

I was starting to accept that confronting him about that night was all too much for Ed, that he had decided to put it all behind him, including me.

But like all those years ago, out of the blue he reached out.

Ed was ready to perform the set again, but this time with the full picture in mind, using all the real names and a different venue.

Hi.

I'm Jody Tovey.

I'm one of the many folks who were putting on the show tonight.

I'll be really brief.

I am not the opener.

You can't find an opener for this.

A couple of years back, I went to the Fringe Festival in Scotland.

I don't know if anyone's been, but it's amazing.

He wanted to perform outside the long shadows of Stanstead.

Ed wanted to come to me.

So we're in for a real treat.

But this is the US premiere, So you guys are the first people in America hearing the set.

We sold it out, set the mic and turned on the lights.

So in Lanta, give it up for Ed Hedges.

Then I let Ed Hedges take the stage, having no idea what he was about to say.

I'm Jody Tovey and this is wisecrack to episode six, Hold for laughter, My last night in Stanstead.

Well, it wasn't the farewell either of us had in mind.

Ed was pissed at me for doubting some elements of his story, and I was miffed that he thought I'd just forego those essential questions.

I knew calmer heads would prevail, but I only had a few hours left in England.

Though we had some bruised feelings.

Both Ed and I knew we weren't the victims of the story.

Any quibbling over unknowable details would never bring back Jillian, David or Brett.

The only way to honor their memories was to get Ed back on stage.

Armed with the new knowledge we had worked so hard to uncover.

Ed needed to recount his experiences with new audiences and share with us how he had healed from the scariest night of his life.

Mine's Ed.

I woke up to that noise coming from my front door on the twenty second of July twenty fifteen.

And we're going to talk about that in a minute.

But first, hello, it's nice to be here in Atlanta.

You're all very nice.

I've enjoyed my time here.

This is already my.

Favorite city on the face of the earth, because you're lovely, but you're weird as shit, like you're wonderful weird people.

Oh, Walmart, that is the best place on earth?

Right.

Do you have any idea how long it would take you in the UK to go to a garden center, food court, a clothes shop, a bike shop and a zoo.

That is mad.

It's wonderful, lovely, people.

It's good to be here.

Thank you for coming.

I'm gonna I'm gonna tell you.

I'm gonna tell you a story, right am.

I'm from a really rayal background in England.

Originally, I'm not from a big city.

I'm from a very countryside area, rural family.

My dad is a farmer, my mom is a cousin.

So I was bullied.

I was bullied a lot throughout my school years.

And I got on the bus and go into school with like a ripped tie and school uniform and the teachers and be like.

Oh, what we're going to do with you.

Let's say stop the bullying please, But they didn't and didn't stop the bullying.

Like riding a bike, Ed remembers exactly how to steer his set.

Though he's older.

He tells his childhood stories with the same wide eyed awe that I witnessed in Edinburgh almost a decade ago.

The comedy was mostly the same, but the comedian was relaxed, self aware, at peace.

And also another thing on top of that is I was a really chubby kid.

But I noticed there were a few new stories I've never heard before.

I was a bigger kid.

I was quite a large kid, and I realized that I had to lose weight after I started comedy.

Actually, I got booked to do a gig in Ireland and I stayed at a hostel.

I didn't know what hostel was at the time.

I thought it was a hotel owned by a dyslexic man.

But it's not.

It is not people of Atlanta.

It's a concrete room with bunk beds where nightmares live.

I was.

I was two hundred and fifty pounds at the time.

I got to the hostel and I got the last bit available.

It was a top bunk above an eighty year old woman named Ingrid.

Yeah, correct response.

That doesn't work, doesn't it?

That math doesn't work.

I got to the hostel, the hostel and showed me the bed, took one look at me, took one look at the bed and went, no, we're not doing this.

What's gonna happen here is you're gonna fall through that bed and you're gonna kill her on impact.

So we're not rolling this dice tonight.

Mate.

He said, what I'm gonna do, I'm gonna move you to the bottom bunk.

I'm gonna move Ingrid to the top bunk.

I'll tell her when she gets back from her day trip.

Everything will be fine.

So there's a great plan.

I said, that is a good plan.

Have a ninety year old woman climb up a bunk bed because my ass is too perfect.

Okay, okay, And that was a good plan technically, And that plan would have worked if he'd have told Ingrid, which he didn't.

So I got back pretty late at night, quite drunk.

I'll here about you guys, but I like to jump into bed.

How do you feel?

She had these big white eyes, and I should have said, Ingrid, look, I'm very sorry.

My name is Ed.

I'm not a threat.

There's been a clerical error here.

He said you'd be on the top bunk and I would be on the bottom bunk.

I'm too heavy to sleep on the top bunk.

I'll get the host loaner.

Now, he'll explain everything to you.

You're perfectly safe and this is all gonna be fine.

That is what I should have said to Ingrid.

I panicked.

I panicked and said the only words I had in my little brain, which was Ingrid, I didn't do that.

I didn't do that.

I didn't do that.

I leant into a tiny geriatric face, real close, and I said, Ingrid, I am too big to go on top tonight, right, which.

Kind of makes sense, But also no I would say that to an old woman at.

So when I turned at and I started comedy, and I moved away from the village.

I moved to London.

So in twenty fifteen, I'm sitting in my apartment in London, minding my own business.

I'm sitting in an apartment and I get a call.

I get a phone call from our town counselor from the village.

Now I've not been back to my home village in years.

At this point, my brothers both moved out of the village, and my family meet at their house.

And I've got two brother one brother called Jack, who's married to an American, and one brother called Sam, who had cancer when he was young.

But he's a racist, so it's fine.

He rolled the dice he lost.

That is my favorite line in the show.

A call from the town counselor.

And they called me and they said, ed, we're raising money for the school, and we've.

Seen in newspapers on the internet.

You're gigging all over the place, and we'd love it if you'd consider coming back and closing the gig for us.

So I said, yeah, I would love to come.

I would love to perform.

So I go back.

I go back to the village and I do the gig, and it's wonderful because I had such a bad experience living there that I just kind of shut it out completely.

I finished the.

Gig and I walked back through all the streets, so I used to walk down as a kid.

So when I get to my house, I go upstairs and I go to bed.

I wake up.

I'd only been asleep for about twenty minutes, and at the end of my bed someone is standing.

It's my mum, and I go to say mom was going on?

And before I can, she says the words to me, whatever you do, do not turn on the lights.

It's always unsettling to watch a new audience hear that line for the first time.

You can practically feel the rooms skin crawl.

In unison, as Ed describes the eight minutes that changed his life, mine cross too even now.

But tonight my uneasiness comes from a different place.

After I challenged him on some of the discrepancies in his set that last night and stands Dead, Ed was barely speaking to me.

So before we left for the airport, I texted him.

I told Ed it didn't really matter if he ever spoke to me again.

He needed to hear everything I learned.

I asked him if he could meet me at Jillian's favorite bench overlooking the green, the small yard shared by Ed's and Brett's childhood homes.

There I would lay out everything I'd uncovered about his childhood.

Bully, We're on her bench, aren't we.

This is where she liked to drink and chill.

That's what your mom told me, that she would sit here and make phone calls.

I'm just going to show you something for context.

This is his rap sheet, and that was only twelve years of his life.

This is close to m Everyone was scared of him.

Shit, this is.

There's a chronology of his arrests here.

Twelve and thirteen was actually the age when things That's why it starts there, when he started to get into trouble.

So right when I was getting bullied.

Yes, yeah, I mean he was in trouble quite a bit for drugs, theft, violence.

It's long lot of thirteen.

He was doing drugs, yeah, Thus.

And did he have his temper then?

Oh, Yeah, so I'm lucky.

You get it.

You're lucky.

It was just donuts.

He was in trouble over twenty times with the law across twelve years and had all kinds of opportunities with various professionals forced by the trouble that he caused, and no one ever diagnosed him with anything specific.

Why why does that happen?

I don't know.

At that At that stage, it feels like an active choice to not because they would have been aware.

They would've been aware.

The Essex Police were very aware that Brett was trouble.

So two thousand seven he was actually expelled from school, so he never officially graduated.

Did you know that?

Didn't he He never finished school?

No, he did take the equivalent of an exam that would give you a certificate.

I didn't know that.

Yeah, he was expelled.

Wow.

And then in twenty ten, and this was the only time that he ever sought long term mental health care, his private doctor referred him over to Essex University for some of his psychosis issues.

Psychosis issues, Yeah, it was reported that he was hearing voices that he thought the radio was talking to him, so he would have conversations with the radio.

So he he's he's he's no, no, sorry, yeah, no one said that.

Psychological issues.

But he is hearing voices.

He's claiming he has voices.

From It's worse than that, actually, So he threatened to murder his best friend and their family, which was one of the inciting incidents that put him in this care at Essex University.

Really, well, who is his best friend?

That doesn't say in the reports.

I also thought it could maybe be Sam because of the timeframe.

I scan Ed's eyes to see how he's reacting.

I don't think the possibility ever crossed his mind.

Brett's best friend surely belonged to the small world of the boys in Bentfield Gardens, someone within Ed's orbit.

The fact that it could have been his brother, Sam, I can tell, is shaking him.

Continuing on, I remind ed that later Rhett had served time in prison for beating his father, but upon his release, he had nowhere to go except his mom's house.

It was a really bad time, I'm In the fall of twenty eleven, Jill had called the police Brett had threatened to rape her or kill her multiple times, multiple calls.

Pete also called the police during that time because Brett was threatening to kill himself, so they were kind of going back and forth between their houses.

I believe at this point, what the fuck.

Is them all?

There's much more so in twenty twelve, Jill calls the police again and explicitly says her son is trying to kill her.

And as Pete had explained, she was making him live in the car outside of there in the garage because she was afraid for her life.

So she let him live at her house but not inside the house.

Wow.

Yeah, so she must have.

Been so terrified.

She must have been so to lock her own son in the garden.

Yeah, but also didn't want to give put him out on the street.

And she has no option, thoughts to do that because no one's helping her, no one's protecting her.

So at this point, he is meeting regularly with a state mandated check in.

The last appointment that he made was at the end of June.

It was the final week of June, and Pete took him to that appointment and the officer wasn't there.

She was on vacation at the time, so the final appointment, no one was there to check in.

And then twenty two days later he killed two people.

This one you're going to I've been loaths to tell you this, but it's absolutely true.

So they did an assessment after Brett got out of prison, and in the assessment it said that the reason that he had so many issues was because he was bullied in school.

No, he said, the two issues.

That he had that caused all of his behavior disorders were because of bullying and dyslexia.

And he was bullying a kid that had dyslexia.

Everything he could me through.

And he was doing he had the same issues.

That's so weird to think that's really okay.

Yeah, he he he literally bullied me continuously.

Because he was being bullied.

So he was giving the life that he supposedly had to someone else.

That's he was always the thought.

I never saw my thoughts.

I had some professionals and experts look over his rap sheet.

Everyone seems to point to the fact that this is not a person who is out.

Of control of their emotions.

It was not that he was evil or a monster inside and couldn't control himself.

There was an inciting incident that caused this.

Something happened that night that set him off, And it wasn't just like you know, tripping over a curb or getting a flat tire.

It was something that was a long held belief that had just been pulled out from under him.

It had to have been something of that level in order to have committed such.

A bloody crime.

It was the show.

I think it's possible.

What do you think?

Do you think it seems too coincidental?

Because I don't really know what to think that in my majority, I'll be honest with you, posters would have been I've known that from day one.

I'll be honest with you, I've I've known that he knew I was here from day one.

You've known that I've always been.

I didn't wanna say that to you because I just don't really wanna think of the idea that he that it could be linked.

But you can't not see posts of me, that there was a wall of me in the train station for a month, the Rickling Stalford Bishops, like Bishop Stalford Stance did.

My face was literally everywhere on every single notice board in every single park.

He definitely knew.

And I'm I, I, I.

Ah, this is this is crazy, this is really I've got a lot of questions over whether it was me being there that night.

This place like Phil's creakier.

Now I know that I have to be honest.

I don't mind thinking that he was creeping through the dark right over there, and that I was asleep right there.

What if I'd have stayed for two more points at the gig takes about what ten minutes to drink a pint?

He made the call at what time?

Eleven?

I must have got home at half ten, Far closer to this happening than I thought.

I thought I was asleep for like three hours when this happened, I was asleep for probably twenty minutes.

So one one more drink or a slightly longer conversation.

As I was leaving the room, I would have bumped into my childhood bully when he was covered in blood outside of my house.

How creepy is that.

He was laughing, which means he wasn't at my house like scared.

He wasn't banging on my door scared if he had no remorse for it.

So that makes me think he was at my front door, and he was at my house in an aggressive way, just killed two people and more stopping you like go for glory.

We all got so fucking lucky.

I'm trying to figure out how I feel right now, and it's like flicking between like I feel sorry for this kid cause he was going through the same thing as me and he had these mental health issues, and then also like a tremendous amount of fuck you do it's it's it is upsetting, you know.

I didn't think any of this would really get to me.

I didn't realize he had dyslex yet.

I didn't realize he had any trouble with bullies.

He was like the pinnacle of what I thought a kid in our age should be.

Yeah, that's so shitty as well.

I didn't don't whether I'm supposed to feel bad for him right now.

I've always been really hesitant to uh bring myself into this story at all.

Yeah, Like, even when I was telling the story, Uh, I didn't really like to put myself in the end of it too much.

I remember I I.

I really had to be tracked into it, and I think quite a few times I didn't even say how I felt.

But so when I first started his story in Edinburgh, I can remember strongly saying to you that it wasn't it wasn't linked And I don't know whether I believe or not.

I'm certainly not saying that it was.

But it's too coincidental, Like why that night, why my house?

Why would you knock on my house?

I came here to like suck things out.

I thought the small town I can figure this out, And in fact I'm kind of a little.

Bit more confused.

No one's also, do you think that's the problem.

I think it's always been the problem.

I think it's always been the problem.

I guess I'd always talked about this, and I was always protective by the idea that I didn't have all the facts, and I guess that was sort of a safe divilin time for me, and I never had to own up to the facts that this could have ended very differently.

In a way, it feels like we were always meant to end up here, a slow burn, a series of steps, conversations, doubts, all leading up to this moment, and I had a single question left.

Part of me wondered if I even had a right to ask it.

Ed wrote this set in order to heal himself, even if he didn't know it at the time, he'd gotten what he set out to gain from the comedy.

He worked so hard to shape.

Perhaps that's all he needed.

But here I am sitting across from Ed, and I couldn't imagine ever getting the chance again.

You're going to be performing the set with all this new information?

Is the ending going to change?

Ed's head is now in his hands, slouched over.

He's exhausted, but I can tell he's been thinking about it too.

I think the whole vibe of the show has that turns.

All right, But the ending, yeah.

Because I have an ending now.

I'll walk out into the hallway and I'm like, Mom, I've just called the police, and she holds a finger up to her lips to tell me to be quiet, obviously, and I go quiet, And the banging has stopped, and it's replaced by this horrible silence.

It's like the loudest silence I ever heard in my life, and whoever's outside goes silent.

My mom turns to my dad and she says, I think it's all over, And as she starts to say the oh in over, the loudest noise I've ever heard in my life happens.

It's the sound of whoever's outside drop kicking the door.

The first kick smashes the window, the second kick makes the door buckle in the middle.

We can hear the wood snapping, We can hear the metal hinges of the door start to gradually get ropped off.

My mom grabs me and my dad.

The banging got louder and loud and louder, and we were all kind of teared up at this point.

We were really scared.

And then the banging stopped and we heard a helicopter.

Then the moonlight that was coming through the window was replaced by a really harsh blue light.

Next morning, I wake up.

For a second, I think it was all like a horrible dream, and then I hear my mum crying her eyes out downstairs.

So I go downstairs.

The blinds are shut, all the doors are shut, everything's turned off.

My dad picks up the remote and he turns on the TV and it's on the TV is Sky News, And on Sky News is my house and the two houses next to it, and they're covered in police tape.

There's about six police officers on the street.

And I saw what happened, and I'm going to do my best to tell you what happened now.

Sorry.

Here was the moment for ED to truly change the way this set concluded with real names and real consequences.

Would he stick with his promise through the end?

On the night of the twenty second of July twenty fifteen, a twenty three year old man named Brett Rogers killed his family.

Brett stabbed his mother, Jillian, fifty six times in the face, and he stabbed his mother's friend, David Oaks, fifty four times.

At the trial, they identified it was Brett because of the imprint his shoe left on the side of his mother's skull, and then he came to my house.

From everything I've gleaned, Jillian was a good time, not afraid of trading neighborhood gossip or naughty jokes.

She was finally enjoying retirement after twenty plus years of working as a lunch lady at a local school.

Jillian's laugh was strong, her poor was stronger at heart.

She was a caretaker who took in her troubled son when the rest of the world wouldn't, and that's likely what David Oaks cherished in his friend too, a local taxi driver who had served his country in the Royal Air Force.

David had survived multiple bouts of throat cancer and that summer he likely felt optimistic again after finally being in remission.

In all my time in Stanstead, I had to pry these happier moments out of the people who knew them best.

It's almost as if the way they perished revoked permission to remember the good times.

I hope this podcast keeps their memories alive, that it opens the door to keep talking about what happened to them and for Brett.

I feel their sympathy to be held for him as well, for a system that failed him, for the signs that were ignored, for the chances missed to simply ask are you okay.

Nothing dismisses his actions.

He took two life, and while we may never fully understand him, the question still remains.

After he brutally murdered his own mother and her friend, why did Brett go to Ed's house.

Perhaps he was searching for a place to hide.

Perhaps he was there to confess.

Perhaps he was there just to look into the eyes of the very people he had grown up with, as if to say things will never be the same again.

You will form your own opinion, but here's mine.

I do think Ed's presence in town was a contributing factor to the murderers.

However, by the time Brett arrived at the Hedges house, I don't think he was there to hurt Ed.

He'd changed clothes, stashed the knives, and called the police.

At this point it seems the rage and confusion had subsided.

And yet on the other side of that door was a family who had only seen the worst of their neighbor.

Of course, they assumed Brett was there to hurt them.

In the end, Ed and Brett are two sides of the same coin.

But for the comedian center stage tonight, who, along with Brett, experienced dyslexia, depression, and the mental toll of constant harassment, it's time to make peace with his childhood bully.

And in so many ways, is there anyone who could understand Brett better.

I wrote this was ten years ago, now just a few months off the night, but in truth, I really don't remember why I wrote it.

At the time, I thought I wanted to talk about all these men are grown up with, my brother, Brett, my dad, how different I was from them, how I saw everything differently and how I acted differently, how I took things differently by unparalleled sharp as a sense of humor.

I don't know if you guys know what it's like to declare your wit as a weapon at customs, but it's been a struggle for me.

And anyway, I debuted this show at the Edinburgh Fringes Festival, and after my show, I'd tell audiences to DM me they had any questions at all, anything they wanted to know, any grizzly details, and they were all gory questions, which is completely cool, and I gave them what I had.

But I didn't have a lot.

I didn't do any research into the night.

I just sort of looked at what happened to me and my mum and my dad and my family, and I really only wrote about that.

I'd like to say that it was creative license, but I changed a lot of things, and I removed a lot of details, just through sheer laziness at times, but also because I wanted to make this funny for you to see.

Anyway, this producer finds me one night in Edinburgh.

It's pissing it down outside, rain is falling, and I'm in my room getting ready for my gig, and I've know where I get a load of ticket sales from people that just don't want to get wet.

She hadn't seen my reviews, she hadn't heard good things.

She just didn't have an umbrella.

So you like about me, I will always offer you shelter from the rain.

No way.

After the show, she starts messaging me all these questions.

She starts asking me things that I hadn't been asked before.

And I honestly didn't really realize it at the time, but I was really happy that someone wanted to know the why.

Her name's Jody.

She's there in the back somewhere.

When we finally met up, Jody asked me more questions, more uncomfortable questions.

Jo wanted to know if I wanted to know the whys, Why did Brett do it?

Why that night?

Why am my front door?

Why am I in this story at all?

Did my presence in the village spur what had happened?

And I think because I felt guilty, I didn't want to know these answers, but I went along with it.

Now, if you'd listen to my set ten years ago, you would have heard me end it by saying, no, no way, absolutely not.

It was all coincidence.

I just happened to be there that night he went crazy and it was all just luck of the draw.

It's been so rough, honestly talking about this, reliving it, learning more things.

The things I found out with Jody have kind of changed the way I feel about everything.

The more I've learned, the more my opinions have changed.

And the thing is, Brett was the same as me.

That was the killer.

Brett was the same guy as me.

Brett probably had the same conversations every day that I had, felt the same things that I felt.

Brett, like me, got left behind in his own childhood.

He's the one that really shook me.

Right.

I've learned that Brett said that his life would have been entirely different if he.

Hadn't been bullied since school.

That's crazy, right.

Brett was bullied to death in prison, murdered by two men that thought it was kinder to snap his neck craft and let him live in mental anguish.

I did Brett bag on my door that night because he knew I was in town?

Yes?

Yeah so?

But was he there to hurt me?

I'll never know.

I don't know why things worked out for me and not Brett.

I've got a lot of questions that I'll never have answered, but I can say that Brett was not the hero of my village, and he certainly was not the villain of the story either.

There was a time I was confused about Brett's motivations.

I felt sorry for what happened to Brett.

But now I've come to realize that empathy is more useful than sympathy.

I love stories.

Aren't they good?

I think they're brilliant.

I think stories are important as well.

We don't really think about it, but stories are all we really have.

How we passed down information from generation to generation.

We share stories to give ourselves warnings.

We pass all of our answers to stories down.

It's the one thing that makes us different as a species.

And the past, the past is a.

Story as well.

Everyone's past the subjective to them.

It's just your viewpoint on something that happened a long time ago.

And these stories are what we base our worth on.

The stories that we tell ourselves every day, what dictate our chances in life, chances with work, relationship, self image.

It's all just based on the stories we told ourselves when we were kids.

It's weird to think that if I believe the stories people told about me.

I wouldn't be here in Atlanta tonight.

If Bred just questioned the stories people told about him, he would still be around.

Look, I know this might not be a satisfying Hollywood ending that you all came to see, and I have tried.

It's a difficult task, but I've tried to give you a message that you can take away on Instagram.

Pithy little life lesson, Here's what I've got When one door closes.

The Titan seventeen windows were all made in the perfect edition to your host dead good Night at Ladder O You two.

Wiscrack is a production of Tenderfoot TV and iHeart Podcasts in association with Star Wit Productions.

I'm your host Jody Tovey.

The show is written by Charles Forbes.

Stand up comedy written and performed by Ed Hedges, with additional writing contributions by Charles Forbes.

Executive producers for Tenderfoot TV are Donald Albright and Payne Lindsay.

Executive producers for Star Wars Productions are Jody Tobay and Charles Forbes.

Lead producer is Alex Vespstad, with additional production by Stephen Perez, Joe Grizzle, ja Jah Muhammad, Jamie Albright, and Jordan Foxworthy.

Lead editor is Stephen Perez, with additional editing by Harrington and Liam Luxon.

Coordinating producers are John Street and Tracy Kaplan.

Research by Jim Nally and Misty Showalter.

Original music by Jay Ragsdale with additional music by Makeup and Vanity Set mix by Cooper Skinner.

Artwork by Byron McCoy.

Special thanks to Orren Rosenbaum and the team at UTA, Nate Ranson, Alexander Kaplan and the Synergy Clubhouse, and the Nord Group.

For more podcasts like wisecrack, search Tenderfoot TV on your favorite podcast app, or visit us at tenderfoot dot tv.

Thanks for listening.