1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,743 Well, everyone, welcome to the first episode of this podcast. 2 00:00:03,743 --> 00:00:08,107 This is the long game podcast, and it's going to be centered around heated rivalry. 3 00:00:08,107 --> 00:00:16,953 Now, what we're going to do is we're going to look at different episodes and we're going to talk through them, take them one at a time and just sort of give our general thoughts, 4 00:00:16,953 --> 00:00:26,820 what we thought of, what was going on, how excited we are for the rest of them and just how it's influenced everybody in terms of like the media and 5 00:00:26,894 --> 00:00:32,552 how excited everyone's gotten over it and just, yeah, generally talk about it, give a good discussion and see what we come up with. 6 00:00:32,552 --> 00:00:38,967 My name's Declan, this is Silvan and we're just gonna sit and we're gonna discuss whatever we loved about the show. 7 00:00:39,284 --> 00:00:43,797 So, what were your initial thoughts about this show? 8 00:00:43,797 --> 00:00:46,128 Because obviously you've not read the books and I have. 9 00:00:46,128 --> 00:00:49,180 So what did you think you were sort of getting yourself into? 10 00:00:50,415 --> 00:00:51,596 That's a really good question. 11 00:00:51,596 --> 00:00:54,898 I actually had no expectations watching the show. 12 00:00:54,898 --> 00:00:59,521 I remember there was a lot of hype around TikTok specifically, but also Instagram, but mainly TikTok. 13 00:00:59,521 --> 00:01:02,983 And I just knew that it was a gay hockey show. 14 00:01:02,983 --> 00:01:03,963 That's all I knew. 15 00:01:03,963 --> 00:01:10,907 And because I haven't read the books, I'm going to go into this not having read any of the books. 16 00:01:10,907 --> 00:01:16,290 So I think it'll give us a really interesting nuance because you've read the series. 17 00:01:16,593 --> 00:01:17,563 series is amazing. 18 00:01:17,563 --> 00:01:18,724 It's really good. 19 00:01:18,724 --> 00:01:22,985 And the books themselves, like they're part of like a wider sort of series of books. 20 00:01:22,985 --> 00:01:29,307 So they've jumped from, you know, straight jump straight into the second book. 21 00:01:29,307 --> 00:01:33,708 So they have so they've not done the first book that actually happens in episode three. 22 00:01:33,708 --> 00:01:35,119 So they've done it. 23 00:01:35,119 --> 00:01:37,729 They changed up the timeline of it a little bit. 24 00:01:37,749 --> 00:01:43,301 And I think the first book wasn't quite as popular as the second. 25 00:01:43,487 --> 00:01:52,783 second was very popular so was and then the final book came out then which was basically a continuation of that story but the first one wasn't as popular people weren't as in love 26 00:01:52,783 --> 00:02:04,905 with it so they weren't so I get the decision to to basically focus on Ilya and Shane rather than Scott but his story is very important for theirs because so much of who he is 27 00:02:04,905 --> 00:02:09,713 and what he does throughout the series matters a lot to them eventually so 28 00:02:09,713 --> 00:02:16,803 yeah I can sort of see why they've gone with that structure but you'll understand that a bit more as the episodes start to come out and as you're watching them. 29 00:02:17,699 --> 00:02:26,428 Yeah and full disclosure we're going to have lots of spoilers in here so if you haven't watched episode one please just skip this and watch episode one first. 30 00:02:27,851 --> 00:02:30,233 Yeah yeah come back that's true. 31 00:02:30,233 --> 00:02:35,557 So having read the books what were your expectations given that you knew the storyline and what was going to happen? 32 00:02:35,557 --> 00:02:38,879 Honestly, I didn't expect it to be as high quality as it was. 33 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:44,563 I was expecting something quite cheap, sawing a little CW. 34 00:02:44,563 --> 00:02:45,404 Does that make sense? 35 00:02:45,404 --> 00:02:53,709 That sort of cheesy, teen, like everything is centered around sex and yet you never see it. 36 00:02:53,709 --> 00:02:56,712 That sort of format, that's what I was expecting. 37 00:02:56,712 --> 00:03:01,175 I wasn't expecting it to be this really artistic. 38 00:03:01,397 --> 00:03:07,023 really beautifully shot, lighted, colored, performed TV show. 39 00:03:07,023 --> 00:03:08,975 It is so unexpected. 40 00:03:08,975 --> 00:03:12,312 So my expectations were not initially high whenever I heard about it. 41 00:03:12,312 --> 00:03:17,544 I thought this is just going to be some cheap knockoff and it's going to be crap. 42 00:03:17,544 --> 00:03:20,146 But that is so far removed from the reality. 43 00:03:20,146 --> 00:03:21,437 It's not even funny. 44 00:03:22,793 --> 00:03:32,265 Yeah, and you're right, there's something quite sort of adult, but not in a pornographic kind of way, but in a, is a show for adult people. 45 00:03:32,265 --> 00:03:39,330 especially because it's a gay TV show and that it was going to be aired on a pretty popular streaming service in Canada. 46 00:03:39,330 --> 00:03:42,031 It wasn't originally, it's not even originally a HBO show. 47 00:03:42,031 --> 00:03:50,206 I wasn't, you know, I didn't have that sort of expectation that it was going to be very artistically done or anything like that. 48 00:03:50,206 --> 00:03:52,283 I just assumed it would be something. 49 00:03:52,283 --> 00:03:57,437 that wouldn't shy away from the sex and the scenes and stuff like that. 50 00:03:57,437 --> 00:04:04,984 And whenever you're reading these books, there's such a core element of it that you couldn't remove that stuff and do them justice. 51 00:04:04,984 --> 00:04:14,511 Because so much of their emotional development and who they turn into as people is a result of what's originally a sexual connection that turns into something a lot deeper. 52 00:04:14,511 --> 00:04:16,183 That's how they communicate with each other. 53 00:04:16,183 --> 00:04:19,935 It's how they measure the depth of their emotions. 54 00:04:20,289 --> 00:04:26,998 they're progressively having sex or as they're getting to become more more intimate the emotional intimacy is also building. 55 00:04:26,998 --> 00:04:36,692 So if they were going to do show it had to go in, it really just had to go for it and I'm really glad that they did make that decision because it's paid off. 56 00:04:38,178 --> 00:04:43,162 Absolutely, it's completely blown up in pop culture, especially in social media. 57 00:04:43,162 --> 00:04:48,385 Everything that I scroll through on my FYP is something E to Rivalry reconnected. 58 00:04:48,385 --> 00:04:51,132 And that's probably my FYP, but I don't know if it's used. 59 00:04:51,132 --> 00:04:51,775 Might as well. 60 00:04:51,775 --> 00:04:53,102 Yeah, it's just everywhere. 61 00:04:53,102 --> 00:05:01,587 And to the point, yeah, and to the point where I can't go on TikTok the day the new episode releases because it will have spoilers. 62 00:05:01,587 --> 00:05:13,667 100 % yeah like I've not opened up my free page today I'm not doing it until I watch that episode because yeah it's not fair to get spoiled even though like I've read the book so I 63 00:05:13,667 --> 00:05:23,967 know what happens anyway but I just watching those scenes come to life like you want it to be like a surprise you want to have it in the moment and see how they've done it so now I 64 00:05:23,967 --> 00:05:27,971 suppose that's the only bad thing is that the spoilers are everywhere so they are 65 00:05:28,063 --> 00:05:30,743 You get the clubs everywhere and there's no stopping it. 66 00:05:31,494 --> 00:05:38,714 Even to the point where like, you know, you've got the fan edits and you've got the music that's different to the show that's paired up with the emotional content of the scene. 67 00:05:38,714 --> 00:05:44,534 And I love watching them and I love how connected people have become over this show. 68 00:05:44,534 --> 00:05:47,948 And I haven't seen something like this, the... 69 00:05:47,948 --> 00:05:51,820 furrer of it since like Game of Thrones in terms of the spoilers. 70 00:05:51,894 --> 00:05:53,606 yeah, it's one of those things. 71 00:05:53,606 --> 00:06:02,873 People are so excited about it, they want to share it all the time and it's like, stop sharing because I'm missing out on everything and you're spoiling everything for me. 72 00:06:02,873 --> 00:06:04,964 So I get that element of it. 73 00:06:04,964 --> 00:06:08,697 There is so much excitement around it and people are just having so much fun with it. 74 00:06:08,697 --> 00:06:14,342 And I think you can sort of see that in the way that the creators, like the showrunners and actors, the way that they're responding to it. 75 00:06:14,342 --> 00:06:16,594 You see plenty of their interviews now and... 76 00:06:16,594 --> 00:06:25,214 they're talking about it and the success that it's had and how unexpected it's been you can really tell that they appreciate the the sort of depth of love that they've gotten for 77 00:06:25,214 --> 00:06:38,614 it and yeah I think their lives are also probably forever changed now this has shot them into the stratosphere from some relatively unknown actors to you know near globally 78 00:06:38,614 --> 00:06:45,187 recognized ones for people that don't even have access to the show in a lot of countries know who they are it's it's that sort of 79 00:06:45,187 --> 00:06:46,865 It's that level of popularity. 80 00:06:46,865 --> 00:06:48,098 It's just crazy. 81 00:06:49,522 --> 00:06:58,466 Absolutely, and I think when you watch movies that Connor Storrie has done, even just a couple of years ago, he looks completely different. 82 00:06:58,466 --> 00:07:06,661 And so there's been this huge transformation of not just him as an actor, but him really morphing into the character. 83 00:07:06,661 --> 00:07:07,622 yeah, yeah. 84 00:07:07,622 --> 00:07:13,625 It's crazy to see how his real personality when compared to his character. 85 00:07:13,625 --> 00:07:15,766 I see why lot of people make a really funny comparison. 86 00:07:15,766 --> 00:07:18,428 like they've like swapped personalities. 87 00:07:18,428 --> 00:07:21,810 they have so Hudson would be Shane's actor. 88 00:07:21,810 --> 00:07:25,472 He in real life is like he's like a feral animal. 89 00:07:25,472 --> 00:07:26,202 He's crazy. 90 00:07:26,202 --> 00:07:29,834 He's just that that same personality. 91 00:07:29,834 --> 00:07:33,446 He just comes out with the with the best sort of stuff. 92 00:07:33,725 --> 00:07:43,173 And then you have Ilya's character, played by Connor, who is so sort of friendly, so nice and so polite. 93 00:07:43,754 --> 00:07:50,580 like the energy that they express in terms of their characters is so completely different from who they are as people. 94 00:07:50,580 --> 00:07:59,497 It's it's it just goes to show that the acting skill for both of them is just at such a high level, like they've done an excellent job of their characters. 95 00:08:00,805 --> 00:08:05,554 definitely tell once had lots of media training one maybe not so much for a good reason 96 00:08:05,554 --> 00:08:06,547 And I hope they don't. 97 00:08:06,547 --> 00:08:07,609 I hope they don't, really. 98 00:08:07,609 --> 00:08:08,449 Right? 99 00:08:08,449 --> 00:08:16,113 Have you seen this video with Hudson with the cut about his skincare routine? 100 00:08:16,113 --> 00:08:17,634 It's like a five step one. 101 00:08:17,634 --> 00:08:19,275 It's 20 minutes long. 102 00:08:19,275 --> 00:08:21,496 I watched all 20 minutes. 103 00:08:22,757 --> 00:08:23,733 He's viral. 104 00:08:23,733 --> 00:08:26,480 And you might know someone, you learn nothing about skin care. 105 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:29,365 You're just learning more about how insane he is instead. 106 00:08:30,132 --> 00:08:33,403 Now why do you think the show has struck the chord that it has? 107 00:08:33,403 --> 00:08:40,635 Because in the bigger context, we've had previous shows that are queer related or gay centric. 108 00:08:40,635 --> 00:08:44,356 You know, I can think of Queer as Folk, both the UK and the US version. 109 00:08:44,356 --> 00:08:48,237 You know, there's Will and Grace, which is more of a sitcom, you know. 110 00:08:48,495 --> 00:08:55,411 You know, you've always had that token gay character in a popular show that feels re-tokenistic, doesn't feel quite so real. 111 00:08:55,411 --> 00:09:02,839 However, I know you talked about the CW before, but you cannot say anything bad about Dawson's Creek, which is a CW show. 112 00:09:02,839 --> 00:09:07,358 I literally grew up in Dawson's Creek, which had a gay character in it. 113 00:09:07,358 --> 00:09:12,012 So why do you think this show has struck a chord into so many people? 114 00:09:12,458 --> 00:09:15,799 I think it's like you said, they're not token characters. 115 00:09:15,799 --> 00:09:19,642 is not, it is a gay love story and it's unique. 116 00:09:19,722 --> 00:09:30,587 mean, no one has ever made a TV show like this before, centered around two closeted athletes having like a romantic relationship with each other on the down low. 117 00:09:30,587 --> 00:09:31,274 And 118 00:09:32,411 --> 00:09:34,753 It's not just their gayness that makes them interesting. 119 00:09:34,753 --> 00:09:40,768 It's everything to do with their characters and the way in which they have their own struggles, their own issues. 120 00:09:40,768 --> 00:09:49,045 Ilya being Russian as a whole element to his backstory that just explodes him into a much more interesting character. 121 00:09:49,045 --> 00:09:58,244 And then you have Shane as well, his ethnic background, the pressure he feels to represent sort of Asian people within hockey and he has all these expectations and... 122 00:09:58,515 --> 00:10:07,515 And even the way in which their personalities carry out like Shane is a little OCD, he's a little controlling so he is. 123 00:10:07,515 --> 00:10:14,175 And that again, it's like all these extra elements that just build them up into three dimensional characters that make them so engaging. 124 00:10:14,175 --> 00:10:20,495 So even outside of the fact that it's a gay love story, the characters themselves are very interesting. 125 00:10:20,495 --> 00:10:23,655 They're fun to watch and they're dynamic as fun to watch. 126 00:10:23,695 --> 00:10:25,975 They have really great chemistry. 127 00:10:25,975 --> 00:10:28,010 And I think that just 128 00:10:28,231 --> 00:10:37,277 carries it for so many people that that element between the two of them they're just really entertaining to watch and you just get that feeling of wanting to root for them. 129 00:10:37,277 --> 00:10:46,432 Everyone loves an underdog story and this is sort of the penultimate underdog story this is two people in love that can't pursue it and you just want them to succeed you want them 130 00:10:46,432 --> 00:10:53,466 to reach out to each other and sort of build something and so yeah when you have the emotional stakes at high it's how can you not get invested. 131 00:10:55,110 --> 00:11:01,715 And I think Jacob Tierney, who created the series, has done such a great job at the casting of the characters. 132 00:11:01,715 --> 00:11:04,457 I think they really embodied the characters really well. 133 00:11:04,457 --> 00:11:11,793 And I was watching another, again, another deep dive into the HR universe, where I think they did their screen test on Zoom. 134 00:11:11,793 --> 00:11:14,264 It wasn't even in person, I believe. 135 00:11:14,866 --> 00:11:15,906 Which is... 136 00:11:15,919 --> 00:11:17,578 that's crazy. 137 00:11:18,819 --> 00:11:27,439 Having the talent and the skill to able to spot that into actors and being able to take advantage of it in the way they did, that's rare. 138 00:11:27,439 --> 00:11:28,559 It's not easy. 139 00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:31,099 I think a lot of shows really struggle with their casting. 140 00:11:31,099 --> 00:11:35,359 I think they make so many mistakes and it can ruin a project completely. 141 00:11:37,099 --> 00:11:39,199 It's just one of those things. 142 00:11:39,319 --> 00:11:42,099 It's very, very difficult to 143 00:11:42,679 --> 00:11:50,614 find two actors who are as open and willing as these two guys are and also have that chemistry, that sort of friendship. 144 00:11:50,614 --> 00:11:57,009 Because you can see that there seems to be a very strong friendship between the two of them in their real day-to-day lives. 145 00:11:57,009 --> 00:12:05,394 I think that's an important element of it as well, that they are so freely expressive with their affection for each other even in real life. 146 00:12:05,394 --> 00:12:08,037 So yeah, think that works. 147 00:12:08,037 --> 00:12:10,678 Jacob Tierney noticing that element. 148 00:12:10,856 --> 00:12:15,279 And that potential of in the two of them, think, has paid off in dividends anyway. 149 00:12:16,970 --> 00:12:20,989 And I think as a first episode, so let's go ahead and get into the episode. 150 00:12:20,989 --> 00:12:27,630 As a first episode or a pilot, I suppose, I think this episode does exactly what it needs to do. 151 00:12:27,690 --> 00:12:30,930 You know, it does such a good job at introducing us to the characters. 152 00:12:30,930 --> 00:12:35,430 And as somebody who hasn't read the books, I really get that there are layers to these characters. 153 00:12:35,430 --> 00:12:36,670 There's layers to the story. 154 00:12:36,670 --> 00:12:40,783 And I can almost envisage where this story is going to go. 155 00:12:40,783 --> 00:12:52,527 I that first episode, like the thing that sticks out to me is that opening scene of the two of them outside and Ilya is smoking and Shane is out there trying to be his little 156 00:12:52,527 --> 00:12:56,288 chipper friendly self and Ilya's having absolutely none of it. 157 00:12:56,329 --> 00:13:01,890 The level of characterisation in the space of those two minutes is crazy. 158 00:13:02,090 --> 00:13:05,771 You have Ilya who's smoking despite the fact that he's a professional athlete. 159 00:13:06,104 --> 00:13:10,386 the fact that he's dismissive about Shane, but that he openly sort of checks him out. 160 00:13:10,386 --> 00:13:12,947 He does, he looks him up and down the entire time. 161 00:13:12,947 --> 00:13:14,127 He has that confidence. 162 00:13:14,127 --> 00:13:14,645 He's cool. 163 00:13:14,645 --> 00:13:15,549 He has the swagger. 164 00:13:15,549 --> 00:13:18,941 the attitude like so much characterization just in that alone. 165 00:13:18,941 --> 00:13:25,725 But then you have Shane there awkward body tight then, trying to put on the sort of friendly, the friendly front. 166 00:13:25,725 --> 00:13:30,838 you know, doing the plights, the polite thing and, actually saying to Elliot, shouldn't smoke. 167 00:13:31,047 --> 00:13:34,548 This guy does not know him at all, but he couldn't help himself. 168 00:13:34,548 --> 00:13:39,570 He's seen a very particular little thing that he noticed and he was like, oh, I need to correct that. 169 00:13:39,751 --> 00:13:42,532 Like that is so telling of his personality. 170 00:13:42,532 --> 00:13:45,433 So it is like so much characterization in that alone. 171 00:13:45,433 --> 00:13:53,837 But even the way that shot, it's just very nicely staged and the whole thing just works as a character opening. 172 00:13:53,837 --> 00:13:55,387 It's a masterpiece. 173 00:13:55,387 --> 00:13:57,518 It's so clever, so well done. 174 00:13:59,054 --> 00:14:00,732 I'm curious, how does it open in the book? 175 00:14:00,732 --> 00:14:01,676 How is it different? 176 00:14:01,676 --> 00:14:02,510 Or is it different? 177 00:14:02,510 --> 00:14:04,182 I think it's the same way. 178 00:14:04,182 --> 00:14:09,096 It's been that long now since I read it. 179 00:14:09,096 --> 00:14:11,057 that scene is in there, so is. 180 00:14:11,057 --> 00:14:15,241 And Rachel Reed, Free Outdoor Books, is very good at characterizing people. 181 00:14:15,241 --> 00:14:22,806 The difference is that Jacob Tierney has an obstacle to overcome, which is that you cannot read the character's whenever you're doing a TV show. 182 00:14:22,806 --> 00:14:27,209 So you need to rely very heavily on the sort of 183 00:14:27,889 --> 00:14:38,509 of mise en scene, what's being shown to the audience, like facial features, the way they stand, the way that they're dressed, all of that adds up to characterizing them and to 184 00:14:38,509 --> 00:14:46,929 express their thoughts so that the audience can understand without you literally having to just give exposition and explain what you're thinking. 185 00:14:48,310 --> 00:14:58,417 Yeah, and I think the direction coupled with the acting is really top tier because you can see that there are moments when both the characters of Iliya and Shane are sort of looking 186 00:14:58,417 --> 00:15:00,631 or the way they direct their gaze. 187 00:15:00,631 --> 00:15:02,835 It just says so much. 188 00:15:02,835 --> 00:15:03,637 100%. 189 00:15:03,637 --> 00:15:08,441 You can feel the expectation behind every little look, every little emotion. 190 00:15:08,441 --> 00:15:15,837 And I think that's what really grips you in is you're trying to read them in the way that they're trying to read each other. 191 00:15:15,837 --> 00:15:17,397 So you are, so you get the little moments. 192 00:15:17,397 --> 00:15:22,629 So you try and like, Oh, he's thinking that about him or he's definitely, he's got the eyes for him now. 193 00:15:22,629 --> 00:15:28,132 Like all these little sort of micro emotions that they go through and that they're able to express. 194 00:15:28,416 --> 00:15:37,391 like on the screen it's it's incredible like I'll probably say it a few times but these guys are phenomenal actors they're so so good and someone needs to give them their flowers 195 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:43,173 Definitely, and I forgot how quickly the hockey scenes come into play. 196 00:15:43,173 --> 00:15:45,695 Like straight after that scene you've got a hockey scene. 197 00:15:45,695 --> 00:15:49,296 Like it goes straight into the actual sport. 198 00:15:49,296 --> 00:15:52,428 I just thought it was going to be hinted at. 199 00:15:52,428 --> 00:15:54,826 I didn't think we actually going to see any hockey. 200 00:15:54,826 --> 00:15:55,666 this is the thing. 201 00:15:55,666 --> 00:16:04,452 It's so tied into their relationship and it's so tied into who they are as people as well, even the way they play and the way they conduct themselves. 202 00:16:04,452 --> 00:16:05,733 The hockey is the medium. 203 00:16:05,733 --> 00:16:08,834 They help explain that, like that element of their characters. 204 00:16:08,855 --> 00:16:16,839 mean, in scene you have Ilya spending his entire time in the ice, taunting all the other players and trying to get off with dirty tricks and whatever. 205 00:16:16,839 --> 00:16:20,946 And it just, it perfectly expresses his personality. 206 00:16:20,946 --> 00:16:28,922 Shane is always focused, he's always direct, always, he is the man with the plan and he is going in and he gives it his all and he isn't sort of buy into that banter. 207 00:16:28,922 --> 00:16:31,504 So yeah, even in that there's so much characterization in it. 208 00:16:31,504 --> 00:16:38,749 And I think the hockey is such an important element of it as well because it's the ultimate obstacle for their relationship. 209 00:16:38,749 --> 00:16:42,050 And yet it's also the thing that they both love most. 210 00:16:42,451 --> 00:16:47,490 So it is, so it's such an important element and I'm glad that they didn't just sort of abandon it. 211 00:16:47,490 --> 00:16:52,318 it's actually like a central part of the show because it's a central part of the story in general. 212 00:16:52,318 --> 00:16:59,830 You couldn't do the relationship justice without keeping it as present and as sort of there within the story. 213 00:17:01,393 --> 00:17:12,173 And I think the music does a really good, sort of, it almost adds another element, another character to the scenes in that, you know, in those hockey scenes it's fast-paced, it's 214 00:17:12,173 --> 00:17:14,643 meant to do, it does what it's meant to do in a way. 215 00:17:14,643 --> 00:17:15,113 yeah. 216 00:17:15,113 --> 00:17:17,255 The whole show is very fast paced. 217 00:17:17,255 --> 00:17:21,789 It really does have a neck break pace and not in a bad way. 218 00:17:21,789 --> 00:17:23,360 You're not missing out on anything. 219 00:17:23,360 --> 00:17:25,582 You kind of just want to go back and rewatch it all again. 220 00:17:25,582 --> 00:17:27,544 It has such rewatchability because of it. 221 00:17:27,544 --> 00:17:31,217 And there's just so many elements to enjoy. 222 00:17:31,217 --> 00:17:40,634 And I think because of the pacing, it sort of lends itself to the sport as well, because hockey is a very fast paced sport. 223 00:17:40,634 --> 00:17:43,876 It is literally like a rotation of guys just going like 224 00:17:43,935 --> 00:17:49,651 pointing their way up the ice, trying to score with this little tiny black puck that no one else can see. 225 00:17:49,651 --> 00:17:53,724 And it is such a fast paced game and I like the way that the sort of show reflects that as well. 226 00:17:53,724 --> 00:18:00,639 Like their lives are chaotic because they are hockey players because of what they're doing and it's expressed really well. 227 00:18:00,639 --> 00:18:09,014 I think you'll notice as well that whenever they're having like more intimate scenes, when you're having your sex scenes, things like that, like you will notice the pacing slows 228 00:18:09,014 --> 00:18:09,804 down. 229 00:18:10,185 --> 00:18:12,414 So it does, it slows down because 230 00:18:12,414 --> 00:18:15,834 This is supposed to be the sort of quieter part of their lives. 231 00:18:15,834 --> 00:18:18,934 is the this is the we're taking a moment to enjoy this one. 232 00:18:18,934 --> 00:18:21,134 Whereas the hockey is like bam, bam, bam, bam, bam. 233 00:18:21,134 --> 00:18:22,134 And that's good. 234 00:18:22,134 --> 00:18:25,194 It gets the blood pumping and it's it's fun and it's fine. 235 00:18:25,214 --> 00:18:30,114 But you can feel the difference in the pacing then whenever the two of them are looking together. 236 00:18:30,114 --> 00:18:34,454 It all slows down a lot more and it's a lot quieter, less shots. 237 00:18:34,534 --> 00:18:37,174 Everything just sort of takes its time. 238 00:18:38,515 --> 00:18:42,597 Yeah, they use more of white pan sort of shots for those kinds of scenes. 239 00:18:42,597 --> 00:18:51,828 The music is due to, if there is any music at all, I can't remember, but it feels more intimate and allows you to sort of tap into that intimacy as a viewer. 240 00:18:51,828 --> 00:18:52,699 yeah, exactly. 241 00:18:52,699 --> 00:18:53,450 Yeah. 242 00:18:53,450 --> 00:18:55,233 Yeah, it's really, really effective. 243 00:18:55,233 --> 00:19:04,886 You feel like Jacob Tierney had a real vision for this show and now he's just sort of carried it out to its natural conclusion and he's done an excellent job of it, I think. 244 00:19:04,886 --> 00:19:07,218 So, yeah, yeah, really, really great. 245 00:19:07,918 --> 00:19:15,020 Yeah, I want to talk about that first sex scene or the first scene in which there is sex alluded to it, that shower scene. 246 00:19:16,021 --> 00:19:26,741 I thought, the first time I watched it, because I've had to watch this multiple times, for research purposes of course, but I remember being shocked the first time, but not in a 247 00:19:26,741 --> 00:19:28,581 this is crude kind of way. 248 00:19:28,581 --> 00:19:33,881 I thought, I've not seen this in this way before, and it was refreshing. 249 00:19:34,021 --> 00:19:35,451 Yeah, 100%. 250 00:19:35,451 --> 00:19:40,436 I think whenever that came up, it was like, they're not going to shy away from this. 251 00:19:40,596 --> 00:19:44,159 Like they're going to give this a go. 252 00:19:44,279 --> 00:19:55,872 They're not going to be afraid of driving an audience off just because there is sexually gay, gay explicitly sexual content there, which other shows would have been scared to do, 253 00:19:55,872 --> 00:19:56,242 I think. 254 00:19:56,242 --> 00:19:58,752 And they would have been afraid of the audience reaction. 255 00:19:58,752 --> 00:20:00,495 They would have been afraid of the 256 00:20:00,718 --> 00:20:04,662 online or whatever, or of being accused of being cheap. 257 00:20:04,662 --> 00:20:13,911 because it's so richly shot and it feels very well constructed, the whole thing just works. 258 00:20:13,911 --> 00:20:22,438 And I think because they won't shy away from the sex, you can just sort of trust yourself that they're just really going to go for this journey. 259 00:20:22,438 --> 00:20:27,241 They're really going to take these characters for you and you will get to enjoy that story from the book. 260 00:20:27,243 --> 00:20:29,656 that made it so enjoyable in the first place. 261 00:20:29,656 --> 00:20:37,776 That's the way in which Rachel Root wrote it and the way she wrote the characters and the sex and the intimacy and everything surrounding that and knowing that they are going to 262 00:20:37,776 --> 00:20:38,948 try and do it justice. 263 00:20:38,948 --> 00:20:40,168 It's good to know. 264 00:20:40,843 --> 00:20:45,287 Yeah, for me there was no shame associated with the sex or the sexual content. 265 00:20:45,287 --> 00:20:54,946 In fact, it was out there, it was celebrated, it was in your face as it should be with other types of sex scenes and of heteronormative sort of types of shows and movies and 266 00:20:54,946 --> 00:20:55,927 things like that. 267 00:20:55,927 --> 00:20:58,729 And that to me was the most refreshing part, I think. 268 00:20:58,729 --> 00:21:03,163 It wasn't a, we shouldn't be doing this or, you we're gonna pan away and... 269 00:21:03,163 --> 00:21:15,328 yeah let's allude let's allude to this let's let's uh let leave it unspoken it's like no they don't need to have the unspoken stuff so why don't we get we're you know for the the 270 00:21:15,328 --> 00:21:19,359 girls and the gays come on uh 271 00:21:19,494 --> 00:21:22,038 I think you were talking about sort of the intimate scenes earlier. 272 00:21:22,038 --> 00:21:28,288 And I think, you know, that gym scene very early on in the episode where they're sort of on the bike. 273 00:21:28,288 --> 00:21:33,171 they're fully clothed, nothing is really happening and yet the sexual tension is insane. 274 00:21:33,232 --> 00:21:34,332 Insane. 275 00:21:34,332 --> 00:21:44,951 The way in which every sort of element of the way it's shot is entirely, it's like they're hyper focusing on parts of their, parts of each other's bodies that you can just sort of 276 00:21:44,951 --> 00:21:49,746 see the, the sort of the horniness running through their minds so they can, as they look at each other. 277 00:21:49,746 --> 00:21:52,578 And it's so funny that that scene starts. 278 00:21:52,578 --> 00:21:55,158 with them being really competitive with each other. 279 00:21:55,158 --> 00:21:57,098 They seem to get a thrill out of that. 280 00:21:57,098 --> 00:21:59,078 They enjoy the challenge of each other. 281 00:21:59,258 --> 00:22:01,298 It's called heated rivalry for a reason. 282 00:22:01,298 --> 00:22:03,058 They are actual rivals. 283 00:22:03,058 --> 00:22:05,198 They do compete with each other. 284 00:22:05,198 --> 00:22:09,358 And that element adds a little bit more spice to their relationship, I think. 285 00:22:09,358 --> 00:22:16,438 I think it really comes out in that sort of gym scene whenever they're sort of racing on the bikes together to see who sort of topples off first. 286 00:22:16,498 --> 00:22:19,577 And it's just such a fun way of... 287 00:22:19,940 --> 00:22:23,900 introducing the audience to what their sort of romantic dynamic is going to be about like. 288 00:22:25,184 --> 00:22:35,435 Yeah, and you get those of those those shots where they pan literally from the feet all the way up and you don't see that often with male characters. 289 00:22:35,435 --> 00:22:39,870 No, Whenever they're supposed to be like the object of desire. 290 00:22:39,870 --> 00:22:40,461 So they are. 291 00:22:40,461 --> 00:22:46,386 But whenever it's a man looking at an hour man, you know, shooting it like that, people are, my God. 292 00:22:46,386 --> 00:22:47,737 so he does actually like him. 293 00:22:47,737 --> 00:22:49,938 It's like, my God might surprise you. 294 00:22:49,938 --> 00:22:50,289 Yeah. 295 00:22:50,289 --> 00:22:52,862 You guys also check out guys in that way. 296 00:22:52,862 --> 00:22:55,564 So they're doing that. 297 00:22:56,325 --> 00:22:59,625 You know, it's it's an important part of them sort of. 298 00:22:59,625 --> 00:23:02,905 establishing what this is going to be like, like we're not shying away from this stuff. 299 00:23:02,905 --> 00:23:06,305 Like we're, going in hard here and he's made a way out. 300 00:23:06,305 --> 00:23:08,545 may come along for the ride essentially. 301 00:23:09,511 --> 00:23:12,984 Yeah, there's a nod to an authenticity there. 302 00:23:13,005 --> 00:23:19,553 And even when they pass the bottle between each other, it's the grazing of the hands along the water bottle. 303 00:23:19,553 --> 00:23:22,564 of the hands, the bowling of the pension. 304 00:23:22,564 --> 00:23:26,916 it's that sort of, it's just sheer romance though it is. 305 00:23:26,916 --> 00:23:29,778 It's the, there's a film, old Martin Scorsese film. 306 00:23:29,778 --> 00:23:32,020 I can't remember what it's called now. 307 00:23:32,020 --> 00:23:35,822 But there is this moment where they're in a carriage, it's Michelle Pfeiffer and someone else. 308 00:23:35,822 --> 00:23:42,145 And like the intimacy of like taking her glove off or something like that there and brushing her bare hand and all that stuff. 309 00:23:42,354 --> 00:23:45,318 It's such a small gesture, but there's so much behind it. 310 00:23:45,318 --> 00:23:48,763 So there is, and there's so much sexual tension behind something like that. 311 00:23:48,763 --> 00:23:51,015 And it's just such a great way to build it up. 312 00:23:51,015 --> 00:23:52,528 Like the tension's incredible. 313 00:23:52,528 --> 00:23:54,169 It's everywhere for you to show. 314 00:23:56,434 --> 00:24:00,670 And as a viewer not knowing where this is going, I want that tension. 315 00:24:00,670 --> 00:24:02,602 I want them to build it up. 316 00:24:02,723 --> 00:24:05,426 I want the yearning. 317 00:24:05,426 --> 00:24:08,316 I want the sexual tension, 100%. 318 00:24:08,316 --> 00:24:09,116 completely. 319 00:24:09,116 --> 00:24:11,157 Everyone loves a good yearn. 320 00:24:11,198 --> 00:24:13,789 Like I don't care what people say, everyone loves to yearn. 321 00:24:13,789 --> 00:24:16,450 Because that is like, that's the buildup. 322 00:24:16,450 --> 00:24:18,562 That's what gives the romance meaning then. 323 00:24:18,562 --> 00:24:23,965 It's the not having it and then getting it that sort of gives you the satisfactory payoff. 324 00:24:23,965 --> 00:24:31,829 know, it's, I think a lot of like sort of art house, gay films really play into the sex immediately. 325 00:24:31,829 --> 00:24:34,871 There is no, there's sort of romantic element gets taken out of it. 326 00:24:34,871 --> 00:24:37,892 So often the enjoyment of it, the buildup, the 327 00:24:38,044 --> 00:24:44,144 The good feelings around it, the celebration of it really gets lost a lot of the time, whereas the show doesn't do that. 328 00:24:44,264 --> 00:24:48,424 It enjoys the build up, it enjoys their moments together. 329 00:24:48,424 --> 00:24:54,444 They matter more, so they do, because we've had this time of just anxiety waiting for them to get together. 330 00:24:54,444 --> 00:24:56,344 And I think that just makes the whole thing work. 331 00:24:56,344 --> 00:24:58,484 It's just so much more entertaining that way. 332 00:24:59,772 --> 00:25:08,747 Yeah, and you've got that juxtaposition of the fast-paced sort of hockey scenes sort of contrasted with the slower scenes, these more intimate scenes, even the way they shoot it, 333 00:25:08,747 --> 00:25:09,509 the lighting. 334 00:25:09,509 --> 00:25:13,591 And even the way they shoot some of those more intimate scenes, you know, it's dark. 335 00:25:13,619 --> 00:25:14,853 but it's not pitch black. 336 00:25:14,853 --> 00:25:21,559 There's, especially in that first sort of bedroom scene, that hotel scene, you know, there's an orange-red hue to it. 337 00:25:21,559 --> 00:25:24,539 it's very warm, very... 338 00:25:24,539 --> 00:25:28,259 there's a subtlety to it, like it's not... 339 00:25:28,259 --> 00:25:30,499 it feels very, very intimate. 340 00:25:30,499 --> 00:25:32,379 So it does, and it feels... 341 00:25:32,379 --> 00:25:34,519 it feels real. 342 00:25:34,939 --> 00:25:36,199 Very real. 343 00:25:37,099 --> 00:25:46,699 Like, without going into too much detail, I was getting flashbacks to moments of my life, and I was like, whoa, like this reminds me of a few things. 344 00:25:47,610 --> 00:25:51,342 Yeah, it's the way I think it helps that Jacob Tierney himself is gay. 345 00:25:51,342 --> 00:25:54,124 Like he knows what it's like to have sex. 346 00:25:54,124 --> 00:26:02,329 So that lends itself to it and he's just sort of set the perfect mood, the perfect scene for them to share this like sort of first moment together. 347 00:26:02,329 --> 00:26:09,193 And I think it sort of adds to that sort of romance, the romance between the two of them. 348 00:26:09,193 --> 00:26:11,114 It's so funny watching Shane get all flustered. 349 00:26:11,114 --> 00:26:15,396 He dresses up in a suit before he shows up and it just... 350 00:26:15,484 --> 00:26:22,672 Yeah, there's just something very cute and endearing about it and yeah, I just thought it was so tastefully done as well. 351 00:26:23,318 --> 00:26:26,431 Yeah, and I think what you said really hit the nail on the head there. 352 00:26:26,431 --> 00:26:30,412 Jacob Tierney knows sex, but he also knows gay sex very well. 353 00:26:30,953 --> 00:26:34,424 I mean, to the point where Shane is like, should we talk or something to that effect? 354 00:26:34,424 --> 00:26:37,536 And I'm like, how many of us have said that? 355 00:26:38,616 --> 00:26:40,295 We've all been there. 356 00:26:40,295 --> 00:26:40,775 Exactly. 357 00:26:40,775 --> 00:26:51,812 It's good that he, I think you needed a director who understands that sort of element to people's lives to do justice. 358 00:26:51,812 --> 00:27:03,020 And I think he has, I think he's really done a great job of it and just brought something that is a very, very individual experience and made it sort of shareable to people that 359 00:27:03,020 --> 00:27:04,102 have never 360 00:27:04,102 --> 00:27:08,616 never been through it before or never had gay sex or experimented in that way. 361 00:27:08,616 --> 00:27:17,381 And yeah, I think it's like a little real gods to honest glimpse into what it's like. 362 00:27:18,670 --> 00:27:19,522 Yeah. 363 00:27:19,522 --> 00:27:24,490 And as someone who's read the book, what are those more intimate sexual scenes like in the book? 364 00:27:24,490 --> 00:27:26,622 Are they sort of very graphic? 365 00:27:26,622 --> 00:27:29,598 Are they more sort of subtle? 366 00:27:29,598 --> 00:27:30,583 What's that like in the book? 367 00:27:30,583 --> 00:27:32,735 they're very direct, so they are. 368 00:27:32,735 --> 00:27:37,961 And they don't shy away from really sexual language. 369 00:27:37,961 --> 00:27:40,263 They love to dirty talk, both of them. 370 00:27:40,263 --> 00:27:43,066 So that element also doesn't shy away from. 371 00:27:43,066 --> 00:27:44,548 And it's pretty descriptive. 372 00:27:44,548 --> 00:27:47,331 is like Rachel Reed doesn't shy away from that at all. 373 00:27:47,331 --> 00:27:51,075 It's fully embraced, especially in the sort of earlier scenes. 374 00:27:51,075 --> 00:27:54,241 then you also, as the book goes on, 375 00:27:54,241 --> 00:27:56,923 Their thoughts begin to change whenever they're having sex. 376 00:27:56,923 --> 00:27:59,384 It's no longer about the mechanics of it. 377 00:27:59,384 --> 00:28:06,770 It's about sort of the emotional response they're having to it, the comfort, the feeling of belonging that they get whenever they're having it. 378 00:28:06,770 --> 00:28:10,622 And as the book goes on, you can sort of see it begins to matter more. 379 00:28:10,622 --> 00:28:14,115 It becomes a lot more important and it becomes more emotionally driven. 380 00:28:14,115 --> 00:28:14,685 So it does. 381 00:28:14,685 --> 00:28:15,726 That's their thought process. 382 00:28:15,726 --> 00:28:17,377 It's typically more emotional. 383 00:28:17,377 --> 00:28:19,978 So it does whenever you're getting later on in the book. 384 00:28:19,978 --> 00:28:22,440 And I would say the show's the same, but 385 00:28:22,588 --> 00:28:27,809 Yeah, if you are still looking spicy content, know, the TV show is just copy in the book. 386 00:28:27,809 --> 00:28:31,304 So the books also still there if you want that as well. 387 00:28:32,648 --> 00:28:35,913 Yeah, and I think I like that they don't shy away from the language. 388 00:28:35,913 --> 00:28:40,340 They don't use any very CW Dawson's Creek kind of way. 389 00:28:40,340 --> 00:28:43,334 They don't say like, your manhood or whatever. 390 00:28:43,334 --> 00:28:46,899 And he is like, do you want to suck my cock? 391 00:28:46,899 --> 00:28:49,252 And I'm like, ha, they can say that. 392 00:28:50,361 --> 00:28:51,341 But that works. 393 00:28:51,341 --> 00:28:51,841 It works. 394 00:28:51,841 --> 00:28:54,102 That's what's given it its authenticity. 395 00:28:54,102 --> 00:28:56,243 It's real and it's raw and it's true. 396 00:28:56,243 --> 00:29:01,745 And that's, think if they tried to censor this in any way, would never have worked. 397 00:29:01,745 --> 00:29:02,385 Never. 398 00:29:02,385 --> 00:29:05,005 Because you need to buy in that this relationship is real. 399 00:29:05,005 --> 00:29:08,706 And it feels real when they talk like that, because that reflects real life. 400 00:29:08,706 --> 00:29:10,847 And people don't talk about their manhoods in real life. 401 00:29:10,847 --> 00:29:12,268 That's not a thing. 402 00:29:12,268 --> 00:29:14,434 So yeah, no, it just... 403 00:29:14,434 --> 00:29:19,259 He's just captured really well and he's done a really good job of that element of the show entirely. 404 00:29:19,259 --> 00:29:22,732 And yeah, very good. 405 00:29:24,978 --> 00:29:29,658 What do you think about how this is now going to influence media going forward? 406 00:29:29,658 --> 00:29:32,734 What do think the changes are going to be or do you think it's going change at all? 407 00:29:34,989 --> 00:29:35,360 Mr. 408 00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:48,579 Me wants to think that you're going to get a flurry of these sort of book adaptations now making it into mainstream media, whether it's TV shows or limited series or even movies. 409 00:29:50,883 --> 00:29:52,025 the cynic in me? 410 00:29:52,025 --> 00:29:56,556 Not so sure because you know just last week Boots got cancelled from Netflix. 411 00:29:56,556 --> 00:29:58,387 Yeah, I heard about that, yeah. 412 00:29:58,819 --> 00:30:10,579 and it was a really well done show and you know it wasn't explicit in the same way you know Heated Rivalry is but there was obviously pressure to cancel it despite it doing 413 00:30:10,579 --> 00:30:13,279 really well on the Netflix charts. 414 00:30:14,564 --> 00:30:16,938 Do you think that was politically motivated? 415 00:30:18,595 --> 00:30:23,895 From what I've seen, I was gonna say what I read and that's a lie because I watch TikTok most of the time. 416 00:30:23,895 --> 00:30:26,916 So from what I've seen, yes. 417 00:30:26,916 --> 00:30:29,333 Seems to be the general consensus, yeah. 418 00:30:30,143 --> 00:30:31,144 I so. 419 00:30:31,144 --> 00:30:36,369 I think what they've done is they've been able to capture lightning in a bottle here with Heated Rivalry. 420 00:30:37,411 --> 00:30:42,155 The timing, the source material, the direction, the casting. 421 00:30:43,163 --> 00:30:49,773 I don't know if, you know, it's been option for a season two already, so we know that's coming and I don't know what that looks like. 422 00:30:49,773 --> 00:30:51,085 But I don't know. 423 00:30:51,085 --> 00:30:53,609 As someone who's read the books, what do you think? 424 00:30:54,610 --> 00:31:10,130 I can see it becoming a stepping off point for people to not shy away from showing particular material in shows, especially centre to right, queer sex and things like that 425 00:31:10,130 --> 00:31:10,470 there. 426 00:31:10,470 --> 00:31:13,250 I think this is going to open up a little bit more in that. 427 00:31:13,250 --> 00:31:19,570 I don't think it means that there's going to be a whole influx of MN romance TV shows all of a sudden. 428 00:31:20,010 --> 00:31:24,890 I think people will be less hesitant to take projects like that, which will be a good thing. 429 00:31:25,141 --> 00:31:28,293 But I don't think it'll be so huge that it'll be like a big thing. 430 00:31:28,293 --> 00:31:32,165 Because keep in mind, we did have Heartstopper as well. 431 00:31:32,165 --> 00:31:36,398 And that was an immensely popular show and it gets its full run. 432 00:31:36,398 --> 00:31:37,434 It's getting its full run. 433 00:31:37,434 --> 00:31:38,929 Its story is going to be finished. 434 00:31:38,929 --> 00:31:45,663 But it didn't automatically result in a whole load of queer shows, even though it was immensely popular. 435 00:31:45,663 --> 00:31:49,757 Or you could argue that Heat of Rivalry exists now because that could exist. 436 00:31:49,757 --> 00:31:51,198 you basically... 437 00:31:51,458 --> 00:31:53,029 don't think it'll be like an immediate thing. 438 00:31:53,029 --> 00:31:54,389 think this is just one of those things. 439 00:31:54,389 --> 00:32:05,875 It's going to, it's just an hour building block to, for a time whenever queer stories are told with more authenticity and without shying away and avoid, you know, that sort of 440 00:32:05,875 --> 00:32:07,326 censorship that seems to come with them. 441 00:32:07,326 --> 00:32:09,502 And yeah, I think it's a good sign. 442 00:32:09,502 --> 00:32:14,569 I just don't know if it's, if it's going to change a whole lot all like straight away. 443 00:32:14,569 --> 00:32:16,760 So that's just me trying to be practical with it. 444 00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:17,209 Maybe. 445 00:32:17,209 --> 00:32:24,229 There will be a whole lot of hockey shows that come out because there's plenty of hockey MN romance books and there's a few that I would like to see adapted anyway. 446 00:32:25,140 --> 00:32:28,436 and you read a lot so I trust your judgment on that. 447 00:32:28,436 --> 00:32:37,871 But I think for me what it's done is it's especially through the medium of TikTok is it's exposed how varied the audience for the show is. 448 00:32:37,948 --> 00:32:39,347 yeah, yeah. 449 00:32:39,521 --> 00:32:46,912 I did not think women and cis women or gay women or you know, I did not think women were going to be watching this show. 450 00:32:46,912 --> 00:32:48,123 I don't know why. 451 00:32:48,949 --> 00:32:53,753 Women love a good story about yearning, regardless of who's in it. 452 00:32:53,753 --> 00:32:56,436 That is something I've come to know. 453 00:32:56,436 --> 00:33:03,342 Yeah, there's just something about it, that romantic element that's pining after somebody that just took she in, just got she. 454 00:33:03,342 --> 00:33:05,003 But most M.M. 455 00:33:05,003 --> 00:33:12,148 romance outside of maybe gay men is consumed by women and women of all different sexual orientations, not just 456 00:33:12,344 --> 00:33:17,664 bisexual or lesbian or anything like that, know, straight woman, a lot of them actually write them in romance. 457 00:33:17,664 --> 00:33:17,884 So they do. 458 00:33:17,884 --> 00:33:22,804 They would be the more the larger sort of group of writers. 459 00:33:22,804 --> 00:33:29,724 They would be more so than there would be gay men writing his offers like that. 460 00:33:29,724 --> 00:33:41,328 So it doesn't surprise me, but I'm not surprised other people are surprised because it's such a niche, a niche genre that, you know, 461 00:33:41,334 --> 00:33:46,688 most people would just assume, well, it's gay books, so obviously gay men are going to be the only ones that read them. 462 00:33:46,688 --> 00:33:53,383 And that seemed to be the assumption from, you know, the producers of the show. 463 00:33:53,383 --> 00:33:55,005 They knew they had an audience there. 464 00:33:55,005 --> 00:34:04,793 They just didn't expect to be so wide and varied, which actually perfectly explains why you cannot buy a copy of Heat at Rivalry anywhere in any country. 465 00:34:04,793 --> 00:34:11,687 because they did not anticipate at all for some bizarre reason that when they release their adaptation that people will want to read the book. 466 00:34:11,687 --> 00:34:22,793 That was the probably the stupidest element of this entire show's run is the idea that no one prepared in terms of the book sales and things like that there that people will want 467 00:34:22,793 --> 00:34:24,073 to buy the book. 468 00:34:24,714 --> 00:34:26,215 That's common sense. 469 00:34:26,215 --> 00:34:27,756 That is just pure common sense. 470 00:34:27,756 --> 00:34:29,727 Really marketing needs called out in that one. 471 00:34:29,727 --> 00:34:31,611 But yeah. 472 00:34:31,611 --> 00:34:32,952 I think that's crazy. 473 00:34:33,536 --> 00:34:35,707 think you're right, I think they really fumble there. 474 00:34:35,707 --> 00:34:47,742 I think there was a huge opportunity for, you know, to tie into the TV show and the book, not just the singular book, but the books in the series, to literally hit every single 475 00:34:47,742 --> 00:34:48,652 bestseller list. 476 00:34:48,652 --> 00:34:58,476 I have been trying to get this book, trying to get it used, trying to find it on Audible, which it is, but also find it, you know, e-books, which it is, but I want an actual 477 00:34:58,476 --> 00:34:59,267 physical copy. 478 00:34:59,267 --> 00:35:02,590 So unless you were clued in and you knew about the series before, 479 00:35:02,590 --> 00:35:05,019 You can't get anything until January. 480 00:35:05,867 --> 00:35:07,225 And that's when the show finishes. 481 00:35:07,225 --> 00:35:08,575 where the show finishes. 482 00:35:08,875 --> 00:35:11,047 And that's like, that's crazy to me. 483 00:35:11,047 --> 00:35:14,498 That is such, that's a really, really bad planning. 484 00:35:14,498 --> 00:35:20,059 think, I think that was really bad planning, but it just goes to show that they were just, were not expecting this level of popularity. 485 00:35:20,059 --> 00:35:28,383 They went from an audience of what they were expecting, Free Crave, which is sort of the Canadian streaming service that actually created the show. 486 00:35:28,383 --> 00:35:30,524 So don't let everyone say it's a HBO show. 487 00:35:30,524 --> 00:35:31,364 It's not. 488 00:35:31,412 --> 00:35:34,772 Give the Canadians their juice, give them the flowers. 489 00:35:35,552 --> 00:35:41,192 Basically, they have an audience of five, six million or something like that there. 490 00:35:41,192 --> 00:35:44,492 It's now going out to hundreds of millions because HBO picked it up. 491 00:35:44,492 --> 00:35:49,692 And now it's being opened up to all these other countries as well because everyone wants it. 492 00:35:51,032 --> 00:35:54,212 And basically now it's become a global thing. 493 00:35:54,212 --> 00:35:58,132 It's no longer a little Canadian independent sort of TV show. 494 00:35:58,132 --> 00:36:00,312 It's this monster of a thing. 495 00:36:01,136 --> 00:36:12,431 I just hope for that, they don't pull like a, you know, whenever a sort of niche movie gets made and it's due a sequel and all of a sudden the studio decides to pump a hundred 496 00:36:12,431 --> 00:36:24,065 million into it more than they had previously in the last budget and just turn it into this over, just sort of overindulgence bloated mess of a thing. 497 00:36:24,146 --> 00:36:25,446 I really hope that doesn't happen. 498 00:36:25,446 --> 00:36:25,971 I hope. 499 00:36:25,971 --> 00:36:29,055 They just get them the better budget and let Jacob Tierney finish his story. 500 00:36:29,055 --> 00:36:33,592 But yeah, there's the potential of the show now is just crazy. 501 00:36:33,592 --> 00:36:36,926 So it's gone way beyond anything that they were planning. 502 00:36:38,347 --> 00:36:50,414 And I agree, I really hope that second season doesn't get botched in a way that now they have all this money and this audience and this pressure that they have to represent it in 503 00:36:50,414 --> 00:36:51,555 a certain way. 504 00:36:51,555 --> 00:36:55,618 But I think, I agree, I didn't even know what Crave was before. 505 00:36:55,618 --> 00:36:59,991 I still don't, to a certain extent, and you as a streaming service, sort of service. 506 00:36:59,991 --> 00:37:06,378 And then when like sort of HBO acquired the rights in the US and now Sky has in the UK and... 507 00:37:06,378 --> 00:37:08,781 I think HBO in Australia, New Zealand and all these. 508 00:37:08,781 --> 00:37:14,375 To me, even the rollout of this show shows that there was no plan. 509 00:37:14,375 --> 00:37:16,316 no, there was literally no plan. 510 00:37:16,316 --> 00:37:22,778 mean, like North America was looking to get a release at all in time with the Canadian release. 511 00:37:22,778 --> 00:37:28,120 The lack of, you can tell that there was a complete lack of faith in the show from its producers. 512 00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:31,481 Probably not so much its showrunners and the people that were actually making the project. 513 00:37:31,481 --> 00:37:39,083 But in terms of the, also the limited resources of Crave as well, like they couldn't. 514 00:37:39,207 --> 00:37:44,392 couldn't platform it everywhere, it wouldn't have been practical for them in that financial sense I suppose. 515 00:37:44,392 --> 00:37:49,134 But yeah, could tell it was completely underestimated. 516 00:37:49,134 --> 00:37:56,677 Which is surprising because anyone that watches it would tell you that it would be stupid not to try to market this everywhere because it is so good. 517 00:37:57,508 --> 00:38:07,828 Yeah, so my question is what happens to viewing numbers once the original run from Crave is finished and people are watching it through other means? 518 00:38:07,828 --> 00:38:12,308 What happens when all these other countries start acquiring the rights, start playing it? 519 00:38:12,308 --> 00:38:16,248 Are people actually going to tune in or they're going to be like, I've already seen this. 520 00:38:17,085 --> 00:38:33,745 I think because of its rewatchability, no, I think it will probably have an initial impact for certain places, I think overall, no, I think the numbers are going to be high, people 521 00:38:33,745 --> 00:38:36,445 are going to tune in, they want to rewatch. 522 00:38:36,965 --> 00:38:40,917 And also in saying that, you 523 00:38:41,725 --> 00:38:48,225 People also like to support these shows when they do come out, even if they originally watched it by different means. 524 00:38:48,225 --> 00:38:53,885 Whenever they then get access to it in an official capacity, they want to tune in to watch. 525 00:38:53,885 --> 00:38:57,944 they do, and they want to show that they're supporting the show as well and that they want more of it. 526 00:38:57,944 --> 00:39:03,285 So going through the official channel then to watch it is, you know, the sort of the ideal thing to do. 527 00:39:03,285 --> 00:39:06,085 If you want to see the show again, you want to see it stay popular. 528 00:39:07,928 --> 00:39:11,327 Yeah, so let's start watching it on Sky when it comes in January. 529 00:39:11,389 --> 00:39:12,512 Watch it on Sky. 530 00:39:12,512 --> 00:39:15,267 I have my Sky membership already, so. 531 00:39:16,452 --> 00:39:21,532 Well, and that was one of the things even before it premiered, I was looking up premier dates. 532 00:39:21,532 --> 00:39:25,612 I was looking up what's Crave because I knew it was a Crave original. 533 00:39:25,672 --> 00:39:29,072 So I was already anticipating and I couldn't find it anyway. 534 00:39:29,072 --> 00:39:31,092 I couldn't find a distribution date. 535 00:39:31,092 --> 00:39:33,572 couldn't find an airing date where we are. 536 00:39:33,572 --> 00:39:38,572 And that was frustrating because I'm like, well, people are just going to pirate this. 537 00:39:38,651 --> 00:39:44,631 And that doesn't feed into the actual legitimate numbers that are watching this. 538 00:39:44,641 --> 00:39:53,003 and the knock on effects for their budget and how widespread this actually phenomenon has become, even to the point where we're doing a podcast on it. 539 00:39:53,003 --> 00:39:53,614 Exactly. 540 00:39:53,614 --> 00:40:05,454 I suppose they just sort of have to do it because they anticipate it to have this sort of global wants, this sort of global audience that they completely didn't plan for and didn't 541 00:40:05,454 --> 00:40:06,679 have the budget to plan for. 542 00:40:06,679 --> 00:40:16,141 it's not surprising, unfortunately, that they're now having to sort of scramble at the last minute to try and get this thing out so people can get to watch it wherever they want 543 00:40:16,141 --> 00:40:18,169 rather than take it matters into their own hands. 544 00:40:18,169 --> 00:40:27,698 So yeah, hopefully now the infrastructure will be in place for the second season and then they'll get their wider audience in. 545 00:40:27,698 --> 00:40:28,719 So they will. 546 00:40:30,611 --> 00:40:31,303 Yeah. 547 00:40:31,303 --> 00:40:41,044 And so thinking about the whole episode as a whole, how much of this first episode makes up the the Heated Rivalry book? 548 00:40:41,049 --> 00:40:43,656 That first episode is... 549 00:40:45,709 --> 00:40:49,389 probably like a fuff maybe of the book. 550 00:40:49,389 --> 00:40:57,369 it does take, it's not shaving off material so it's not, it's taking its time. 551 00:40:57,369 --> 00:41:06,629 It's setting in moments and it's giving them a bit more time to work out, you know, character interactions and relationships and things like that. 552 00:41:06,629 --> 00:41:10,749 It's important to keep in mind as well that a lot of the books filled up by their inner monologue. 553 00:41:10,965 --> 00:41:18,000 So rather than the events happening themselves or them talking, a lot of it is them sort of thinking to themselves about the relationship. 554 00:41:18,220 --> 00:41:22,703 So Jacob Therrien's out of the few things in, but he's not taking anything out. 555 00:41:22,823 --> 00:41:33,693 So he isn't, not from what I've seen anyway so far, but he, yeah, he's pacing it really nicely and he's giving extra time to those moments that need it from the book and 556 00:41:33,693 --> 00:41:37,135 expanding on some scenes as well that give better context. 557 00:41:37,135 --> 00:41:38,696 It's also important to note that. 558 00:41:38,696 --> 00:41:49,279 he sort of worked in collaboration with the original author about all this extra stuff and discussed it with her so she was still actively involved which 100 % works because if he 559 00:41:49,279 --> 00:41:56,971 needs to add something in or he feels like someone needs added in she's there to give him the guidance then to well yeah you're right because the character believes this or they do 560 00:41:56,971 --> 00:42:01,763 that so if you had a scene of them doing this then that that would be really good. 561 00:42:01,763 --> 00:42:07,094 I particularly like how Shane's mother 562 00:42:08,121 --> 00:42:12,134 puts in the book there is less pressure from Shane's mother. 563 00:42:12,134 --> 00:42:16,287 They represent him, they represent in like a racial aspect. 564 00:42:16,287 --> 00:42:20,531 Whereas in the show it's actually, it's important. 565 00:42:20,531 --> 00:42:21,832 It actually sort of matters. 566 00:42:21,832 --> 00:42:22,482 So it does. 567 00:42:22,482 --> 00:42:33,206 It's much more present and you get the feeling from Shane that this is a part of his life that stresses him, that he doesn't particularly like. 568 00:42:33,206 --> 00:42:34,046 And 569 00:42:34,742 --> 00:42:45,119 I think it's so interesting that in the book Shane has no interest in becoming like a spokesperson for gay athletes. 570 00:42:45,419 --> 00:42:45,960 He doesn't. 571 00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:48,921 He doesn't want to do that. 572 00:42:49,422 --> 00:42:52,064 Other characters do eventually. 573 00:42:52,064 --> 00:42:54,806 I'll not say more, but he doesn't. 574 00:42:54,806 --> 00:42:55,926 It's not something that he wants. 575 00:42:55,926 --> 00:43:00,760 So having been an advocate in any way is just something he's not interested in. 576 00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:02,991 According to him, he just wants to play hockey. 577 00:43:03,291 --> 00:43:05,094 that's his drive. 578 00:43:05,094 --> 00:43:09,300 So that's a very interesting element that Jacob Tierney has introduced in this one. 579 00:43:09,300 --> 00:43:15,478 It was there but it wasn't as expanded upon as it is in the show and I think that's a very strong point. 580 00:43:15,478 --> 00:43:19,753 think that'll result in something very interesting for his character. 581 00:43:21,426 --> 00:43:27,410 Yeah, and I really enjoyed watching the family dynamics of both the characters. 582 00:43:27,819 --> 00:43:29,103 very different. 583 00:43:29,409 --> 00:43:30,003 So they are. 584 00:43:30,003 --> 00:43:40,249 Like, whilst watching Emma Nerd, I'm thinking of their attachment styles and sort of what the systemic dynamics around them look like. 585 00:43:40,249 --> 00:43:50,977 for me, know, Shane very much, at least from the TV show, represents this sort of very secure type of, having had a secure type of parenting, but with sort of this element of 586 00:43:50,977 --> 00:43:55,640 helicoptering parenting in a way, where there is pressure, where there is sort of... 587 00:43:56,876 --> 00:44:02,850 Yeah, whereas for Rosen or for Ilya, like, my gosh, that's so layered. 588 00:44:02,850 --> 00:44:12,267 There's so much material to work with where you've got the dismissive father, the extorting brother. 589 00:44:12,267 --> 00:44:13,588 Let alone him. 590 00:44:13,588 --> 00:44:22,424 It feels like he's more isolated in the shots where he's talking to his family because he's in a hotel room alone and he's screaming down the phone. 591 00:44:22,424 --> 00:44:25,061 And there's this 592 00:44:25,061 --> 00:44:32,158 real contrast where Shane, when he's presented with his family, is always with both his parents at the lunches. 593 00:44:32,158 --> 00:44:32,808 Yeah. 594 00:44:32,808 --> 00:44:43,136 Shane is there are lots more shots of Shane with other people than there is with Ilya with anyone else. 595 00:44:43,697 --> 00:44:47,619 trying to appreciate like what would it be like to be Ilya? 596 00:44:47,619 --> 00:44:51,882 Well, he's in a foreign country by himself. 597 00:44:51,922 --> 00:44:55,094 He has a horrible relationship with his father and his brother. 598 00:44:55,094 --> 00:44:56,478 He are his only family. 599 00:44:56,478 --> 00:45:02,122 he doesn't seem to have many friends besides our names escaping me now. 600 00:45:02,122 --> 00:45:11,126 Basically his Russian friend and their relationship is somewhat sexual in nature as well so there is almost like there's almost string state a little bit. 601 00:45:13,148 --> 00:45:23,886 That's it and that makes it very interesting because he is basically alone for most of the time whenever he isn't with Shane and 602 00:45:23,886 --> 00:45:26,609 that has to have an impact on him. 603 00:45:26,609 --> 00:45:32,896 it does impact on the way that he behaves and the way that he sort of forms attachments and relationships. 604 00:45:32,896 --> 00:45:35,438 yeah, it'll be interesting to see how that plays out. 605 00:45:36,760 --> 00:45:47,105 Yeah, and I really like that you noticed the language because in that scene where they're in the sort of that interview scene where they're both present and this interview is 606 00:45:47,105 --> 00:45:54,697 asking both of them questions but the rapid succession of multiple questions that are thrown at, know, Elia's character. 607 00:45:54,697 --> 00:45:59,554 translate it in his head and he's struggling and then Shane jumps in and saves him. 608 00:46:00,204 --> 00:46:08,713 Yeah, and it's the little foot tap, and it's just that little subtle sort of like that gives you these goosebumps that gives you the little giggles like, my God, he actually 609 00:46:08,713 --> 00:46:09,315 cares. 610 00:46:09,315 --> 00:46:15,990 Yeah, it's those little hints that there's some deeper underneath there that Shane sees him. 611 00:46:16,151 --> 00:46:20,714 So he does in a way that other people haven't bothered to. 612 00:46:20,894 --> 00:46:29,342 So that's obviously is going to create a bit of an awkward situation for Ilya because they're both still trying to keep their careers. 613 00:46:29,403 --> 00:46:34,628 In reality, Ilya doesn't have anything bot hockey and his entire life is tied up into it. 614 00:46:34,628 --> 00:46:35,091 it 615 00:46:35,091 --> 00:46:40,353 came out of nowhere and he lost, sort of has possession on his team or you have to stop playing. 616 00:46:40,635 --> 00:46:42,849 He's nothing else, nothing normal. 617 00:46:44,623 --> 00:46:55,414 Yeah, and it's interesting that you say that sort of Shane sort of jumps in for him and in a way I almost feel like Ilya allows him to do that where he doesn't allow that with other 618 00:46:55,414 --> 00:46:56,395 people. 619 00:46:56,776 --> 00:47:00,231 No, because they are rivals in that context. 620 00:47:00,231 --> 00:47:01,332 exactly. 621 00:47:01,332 --> 00:47:11,851 And Ilya is constantly presenting himself as this very confident person, really cheeky character, the one that doesn't really get affected by anybody, he's the one that gives 622 00:47:11,851 --> 00:47:12,743 shit, not takes it. 623 00:47:12,743 --> 00:47:18,229 And Shane, knowing what he's like and knowing his attitude towards him and how he 624 00:47:18,229 --> 00:47:21,101 takes the piss out of him all the time. 625 00:47:21,322 --> 00:47:27,399 When he sees him slipping the confidence starting to fall, he doesn't hesitate to step on. 626 00:47:27,399 --> 00:47:33,094 So he doesn't hesitate to help Ilya keep that front that he presents to people. 627 00:47:33,094 --> 00:47:36,158 And yeah, it's very interesting. 628 00:47:36,158 --> 00:47:43,404 It's an interesting way of playing out their dynamic and drop and hands up what it actually looks like underneath it all. 629 00:47:44,593 --> 00:47:50,420 And it makes me wonder sort of like what's coming next like obviously I want more sex. 630 00:47:50,420 --> 00:47:51,741 Let's be honest 631 00:47:52,996 --> 00:47:54,778 That's what everyone signed up for in the show. 632 00:47:54,778 --> 00:48:09,002 I mean, episode two brings some more, but I also want to see how they develop these characters from a very hook-upy type of interaction and how that plays out into more 633 00:48:09,002 --> 00:48:12,175 intimacy or not, or do they get together or not? 634 00:48:12,175 --> 00:48:13,496 Like, I don't know. 635 00:48:13,496 --> 00:48:19,823 And that's what I'm looking forward to because I can see how that mirrors, you know, a lot of hook-up culture. 636 00:48:19,823 --> 00:48:22,461 Like, you either stay hookup buddies... 637 00:48:22,461 --> 00:48:23,601 exactly. 638 00:48:23,621 --> 00:48:27,333 And for the two of these guys, the stakes are very high. 639 00:48:27,333 --> 00:48:36,152 And in most cases in people's ordinary lives, the most complicated thing that will happen is you end up catching feelings for someone that doesn't have feelings for you. 640 00:48:36,152 --> 00:48:43,133 And obviously there's a lot of heartbreak and hurt and that their problem is so much worse because they do seem to like each other. 641 00:48:43,133 --> 00:48:45,494 There is chemistry there and 642 00:48:45,962 --> 00:48:52,307 there is a completely impractical wall for them to have to claim them if they ever want to try to make that work. 643 00:48:52,307 --> 00:49:02,316 so it's, yeah, it does sort of say something about hookup culture in the terms that, you know, what happens when it turns into something emotional? 644 00:49:02,316 --> 00:49:03,837 What's, what way do you react? 645 00:49:03,837 --> 00:49:09,563 What, what's, how do you approach that then in the end up and how you do it whenever, you know, 646 00:49:09,563 --> 00:49:11,294 you have feelings for that person as well. 647 00:49:11,294 --> 00:49:14,777 How is that developing to something then that's manageable and something that's real? 648 00:49:15,218 --> 00:49:22,766 So yeah, there's plenty of content to pick for you anyway, I can say that much just from watching that first episode. 649 00:49:22,766 --> 00:49:32,677 And there's a lot of sort of subcontext in what Jacob Tierney is doing and a lot of themes that he's introducing that he's given a lot more time to than they got in the book. 650 00:49:32,677 --> 00:49:34,738 And I sort of like that element of it. 651 00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:44,569 Yeah, and I think regardless of what your sexual orientation is, like we've all been in a situationship, and most of us have been in a situationship where one person develops 652 00:49:44,569 --> 00:49:46,351 feelings and one person doesn't. 653 00:49:46,351 --> 00:49:47,733 And I'm looking for that. 654 00:49:47,733 --> 00:49:53,098 I'm looking for what that looks like later on in the series as the episodes develop. 655 00:49:53,493 --> 00:49:55,837 it's the interesting is like we know it's a romance. 656 00:49:55,837 --> 00:50:00,580 know it's centered around these two guys and we know that it goes on for an hour season at least. 657 00:50:00,580 --> 00:50:06,006 So obviously you get the idea that these two are going to like each other at some point and that they cannot already are there. 658 00:50:06,006 --> 00:50:07,388 They're they're doing. 659 00:50:07,388 --> 00:50:12,472 Romantic gestures outside of those private moments already. 660 00:50:12,973 --> 00:50:15,114 And thing at this relationship is. 661 00:50:15,226 --> 00:50:21,507 I don't know how long it's going to stay behind closed doors forever because these two can't really help each other or can't help themselves at this point. 662 00:50:21,507 --> 00:50:25,343 yeah, it'll be interesting to see how that plays out then for the wider story. 663 00:50:26,051 --> 00:50:26,863 Yeah. 664 00:50:26,863 --> 00:50:33,929 Are there any memorable lines from this first episode that sort of stay with you or stick out for you? 665 00:50:34,930 --> 00:50:36,811 can't think of one now at the minute. 666 00:50:36,991 --> 00:50:41,205 I think that opening scene, that whole thing, I thought was brilliant. 667 00:50:41,205 --> 00:50:44,756 think the characterisation in that was excellent. 668 00:50:44,797 --> 00:50:46,348 So amazingly done. 669 00:50:46,348 --> 00:50:50,460 You got so much of their personalities in such a short amount of time with so few lines. 670 00:50:50,460 --> 00:50:51,821 They barely talked to each other. 671 00:50:51,821 --> 00:50:52,982 Barely talked to each other. 672 00:50:52,982 --> 00:50:56,924 And yet you immediately gather their dynamic. 673 00:50:56,924 --> 00:50:58,785 I just thought it was brilliant directing. 674 00:50:58,785 --> 00:51:00,406 Brilliant directing, brilliant writing. 675 00:51:01,239 --> 00:51:02,099 Yeah. 676 00:51:02,801 --> 00:51:03,421 Yeah. 677 00:51:03,421 --> 00:51:07,115 I think for me, the you are having panic attack, Hollander sticks out. 678 00:51:07,115 --> 00:51:08,167 I don't know why. 679 00:51:08,167 --> 00:51:12,639 Like, it's just the line that sticks out to me when I think about this first episode. 680 00:51:13,324 --> 00:51:16,901 that moment where he's starting to freak out. 681 00:51:16,901 --> 00:51:18,633 Yeah, notices. 682 00:51:19,381 --> 00:51:32,781 I thought it was such a sweet moment and I don't know, there was a reciprocity there, was this sort of consideration there and I was like, huh, yeah, he is. 683 00:51:33,201 --> 00:51:38,274 you go in expecting it to be this quick and dirty hookup. 684 00:51:38,654 --> 00:51:49,600 Then you have the sort of emotional consideration, the consideration for his feelings and what he's going through and what's happening and that sort of moment of tenderness. 685 00:51:49,620 --> 00:51:58,698 And it's totally unexpected because Illya is this womanizing, extreme playboy. 686 00:51:58,698 --> 00:52:10,403 having such an affectionate and caring and intimate moment with him that's completely unrelated to the sex, that tells you something about their relationship and how he 687 00:52:10,403 --> 00:52:13,514 actually feels about Shane and where it could possibly go. 688 00:52:13,514 --> 00:52:15,935 So yeah, that's a great moment. 689 00:52:16,864 --> 00:52:20,207 And I'm sure that that will resonate with a lot of people. 690 00:52:20,621 --> 00:52:23,008 yeah, yeah, 100%. 691 00:52:23,008 --> 00:52:23,888 Yeah. 692 00:52:24,529 --> 00:52:31,214 So thinking about the rest, or at least thinking about the rest of the season, as someone who's read the books, what are you hoping they get right? 693 00:52:31,214 --> 00:52:34,516 Or what are you hoping that happens in the second episode that they get right? 694 00:52:34,703 --> 00:52:37,045 So in the second episode... 695 00:52:39,440 --> 00:52:43,815 I want to see more of Ilya's family dynamic. 696 00:52:43,815 --> 00:52:49,579 He has a very complicated relationship with his family and it's always very good. 697 00:52:49,579 --> 00:52:53,723 I always find it's very interesting the way that he reacts to Shane after these moments. 698 00:52:53,723 --> 00:53:06,653 Even when he's feeling down or bad, his initial reaction in the book was always to withdraw, but as time goes on, he sort of turns to Shane rather than away from him. 699 00:53:07,325 --> 00:53:09,387 as their relationship begins to develop. 700 00:53:09,387 --> 00:53:13,569 it's such a, they're like some of my favorite moments. 701 00:53:13,569 --> 00:53:21,497 So that's because it's like, you're finally starting to feel comfortable, like trusting in this person, having this person be your person. 702 00:53:21,497 --> 00:53:23,328 And it's just such a lovely moment. 703 00:53:23,328 --> 00:53:25,790 And it's so subtle and it builds so slowly in the books. 704 00:53:25,790 --> 00:53:28,221 And I hope it's on somewhere here. 705 00:53:28,402 --> 00:53:35,086 Might mean that Ilya is going to be an asshole for next couple of episodes, but that's what you need to do if you want to build tension. 706 00:53:35,866 --> 00:53:37,737 That's not a bad thing though. 707 00:53:37,737 --> 00:53:39,657 you need to build it up. 708 00:53:39,657 --> 00:53:45,617 can't just have everything work out in the start and have no material to end the cover in the end. 709 00:53:46,637 --> 00:53:47,577 There needs to be conflict. 710 00:53:47,577 --> 00:53:49,857 Don't shy away from conflict, it's necessary. 711 00:53:51,791 --> 00:53:53,893 So I think we'll wrap it up there. 712 00:53:53,893 --> 00:53:55,063 That was really good. 713 00:53:55,063 --> 00:54:04,021 It's really good to sort of take the time to discuss it and talk through your thoughts and things like that there and just sort of take the time to actually examine whatever you're 714 00:54:04,021 --> 00:54:04,342 reading. 715 00:54:04,342 --> 00:54:07,345 And I hope you enjoyed it as well. 716 00:54:07,345 --> 00:54:10,427 Obviously me and Silvan had a great time talking. 717 00:54:10,449 --> 00:54:14,062 nonsense for an hour about this amazing show that's taking over the world. 718 00:54:14,062 --> 00:54:16,293 But yeah, we plan to do this weekly. 719 00:54:16,293 --> 00:54:21,876 So if you enjoyed this episode, if you enjoyed our thoughts, then you know, don't be afraid to comment. 720 00:54:21,876 --> 00:54:22,736 What did you think? 721 00:54:22,736 --> 00:54:27,389 Is there something that you want us to cover or any topics you want us to discuss? 722 00:54:27,389 --> 00:54:30,951 Leave them in the comments, like, share, subscribe, do all that. 723 00:54:30,951 --> 00:54:32,912 And yeah, keep an eye out for the next episode. 724 00:54:32,912 --> 00:54:35,234 Whenever we're done that one, we'll send that out as well. 725 00:54:35,234 --> 00:54:36,644 yeah, until next time.