Phil Szomszor: Phil, welcome to retro Titans, a podcast dedicated to the golden age of gaming.

Hi.

My name is Phil, and I am the host of retro Titans.

Each episode, I'll be interviewing the giants of retro gaming, the people that bought us the games, computers and consoles we loved, and those that are bringing it all back.

So let's begin in this episode, we mark the fifth anniversary of evercade with a special interview with both the CEO and Head of Marketing at blazer entertainment, the company behind evercade.

They are, of course, Andrew Byatt and Sean cleaver respectively.

Gentlemen, welcome to the show.

Andrew Byatt: Hello, Hi.

Thanks for having us.

Excellent.

It's great.

Phil Szomszor: It's great to have you back, actually.

And it was only a little while ago we had you on.

It feels like yesterday that we had an evercade showcase.

And here we are with another one to mark five years of evercade.

And I think the first thing to say is congratulations for for making five years.

I mean, that is in gaming terms, that is an incredible achievement to start with.

Yeah,

Andrew Byatt: I think it, it's gone incredibly quickly, if I'm honest.

So for about 10 minutes, it's

Phil Szomszor: like children, isn't it?

You've kind of like Wonder where the time goes?

Yeah, absolutely.

Well, I think the first question to ask you both is, and I think we talked about this a little bit before, Andrew, but when you cast your mind back to 2020, when you were when you were starting this adventure, did you did you think you would be here, and did you think you'd be here making the kind of announcements that you've made today?

I think

Andrew Byatt: we probably thought, Well, we certainly hope to be here, and hope to be developing and bringing people some really cool stuff.

It's been, as I say, really fast, and it's difficult to sort of remember and put myself back in the shoes, but yeah, I think, as I said last time we it was really a kind of hold your breath moment see whether people wanted this particular product and the way we presented it.

And I don't think we sort of really saw the future too far, and it was just a matter of, is this, is this what people want?

And fortunately, it's been the case, and and then you're on to the next project and the next thing, and bringing in more licenses and run great stuff.

So I think, yeah, it's been a whirlwind, really.

Phil Szomszor: And what about you, Sean, you joined slightly later, didn't you?

You weren't there from the word go, yeah,

Sean Cleaver: slightly later, but not two months later, when I was talking with everybody, you know, it was towards the back end of 2020, and I suppose, you know, I was young, green and full of optimism.

So I absolutely thought we would get here, and five years later, I'm now just full of

Phil Szomszor: optimism, full of optimism.

Sean Cleaver: Well, yeah, I mean, you you always feel like you're taking a step and, you know, we hold on to the information about what's what's coming until we can announce it.

And, you know, make a great big deal out of it, but we know what what we're working with, and when these things drop on our desks as well.

You know, you can't help be optimistic.

You know, so much that we've announced now and so much more that we're going to announce over the next year, and a bit that we know is just like fun.

So you can't help but be optimistic.

Well,

Phil Szomszor: listeners, what we're going to do today is spend a bit of time unpacking the showcase announcement.

I'm sure everybody listening to this has watched the YouTube video at the very, very least, probably three or four times, I'm gonna guess.

So we're gonna go through that, and we can have a bit of a Q and A around some of the topics around retro gaming generally, and hopefully time for a few quick fire questions as well.

So Sean and Andrew, I'm assuming you've seen the questions, or some of the questions.

There are a couple I haven't shown you.

I'm assuming everything is good with you so far.

Yes, great, yeah, all good.

Okay, let's go for it.

So we're going to begin with tyto, which is quite a sizable announcement in its own right.

And I think perhaps a bit of a surprise, a bit of a surprise to me, if I'm honest.

Because I think the assumption many of us had was that we weren't going to get any more tyto because it was only possible to have it on a super pocket.

And that was always the the kind of what we expected, I suppose.

So before we go through the carts and the the the alpha in in detail, what, how did you manage to get it back?

Was that always on the cards, or was that something that tyto needed to see?

The proof a bit talk us through the background of it.

Andrew, perhaps, I think it's

Andrew Byatt: step by step process really in it, and there's a lot of trust that goes into into this, some of this stuff.

And then then these companies, you know, the large companies, really, that they've got their own strategies and their own focus.

So the conversations never really went away.

And I think we've said this before with licensing, and there's a lot of assumptions made.

It's never say never really with this stuff.

And we talk to them a lot, and we've been talking to them for years, really on all sorts of different ways.

So these conversations.

Has happened with all licensors constantly over time.

You check in, you find out how they're, how they are, you propose things again, and you just it's about timing and getting the right time.

So I think with this instance, and you know, others in the future, I think you you just have to be persevered and keep going with these things, there was always a kind of, not now moment, I suppose, with with title, and that's come around, and now it is, you know, we're happy to do it.

And this is, obviously goes back a fair amount of time when they, they came to us and said, Yeah, let's do, let's do cars.

So it's really exciting time.

Phil Szomszor: What the time scales?

When that, I mean, was this a conversation that's been a couple of years in the making?

Or,

Andrew Byatt: I think the cartridge stuff about, probably about a year ago.

Yeah, they sort of started talking to us and saying, you know, let's be probably around, you know.

Well, yeah, when would it be?

It was probably a year ago.

Yeah, let's have a look at this.

And we've done, done them deal quite quickly on that, and then it takes kind of eight, nine months to build a cartridge from scratch.

Phil Szomszor: Well, let's go into we'll start with the carts, because there's a couple that you've launched today, so and then we'll go into the Alpha afterwards.

So as I said earlier, I'm sure everybody's already had a look at these, but we've got two carts, so the games are split across a couple.

The first one, tyto arcade one has got nine games.

And probably the most famous ones, or at least in my view, are bubble bubble and Space Invaders.

I mean, probably the most famous, iconic computer game ever made, or video game ever made.

But there's some, there's some others there that are perhaps familiar to super pocket owners, and a couple of new ones as well, which is quite interesting.

And then on tyto arcade two you've got the I suppose the famous ones might be Elevator Action, raston operation, Wolf, maybe New Zealand Story.

They're all big ones.

And yeah, a couple of new games in there as well, by the looks of it, I think alpine ski and electric yo yo new just having had a scan through this morning.

So yeah, a bit of a mixture of some new and old.

Perhaps you could just start by explaining what the rationale for the game selection was and how you've kind of decided to split them across into two carts.

So

Andrew Byatt: we we like to have some kind of hero titles, which I think people would recognize straight away.

So as much as possible, we'd like to have some Hero titles.

So each, each, each cartridge has some Hero titles on this, as you say, Space Invaders on the first one, Bubble, bubble, um, kind of the big, big standout titles on that.

And then on, on the second one you've got, well, yeah, elevator, action, Rasta, New Zealand Story, those kind of things.

Operation warfare.

So those warfare.

So those four are real kind of hero games which people know, and then there's a selection of different stuff which perhaps people have never played before or they're unfamiliar with, and they get to try and experience for the first time.

I think we've got nine games on each cartridge.

I think six feature on the Super pockets.

There'll be three on each.

I think Sean will correct me.

I'm wrong, but I think there's three on each.

Which are new.

So there's a bit of something which, if you don't have that particular suit pocket, you get to play for the first time.

So we've tried to mix it up a little bit and have some hits, and then some interesting stuff.

Sean Cleaver: Yeah.

And I think the thing is, as well, it's, it's the same as any other of a K cartridge in the way that you sort of go around that like, like Andrew says, you want to be able to bring something that everybody knows and recognizes Space Invaders is obviously, you know, the nth degree of that to the public as well as the gamers and everybody else's cultural relevance in the 70s, 80s, 90s and everything that's followed since is just immeasurable.

So you can't ignore having those kind of games on there, but we've always had that ability to dip into a catalog.

Catalog a little bit more the super pocket does in some ways, but with the evercade cards, you get more of a feel of it.

You can get it on the bigger screen, of course, because you'll be able to put it on the vs you'll be able to have a much more engaged experience with it.

For those evercade fans that wanted this kind of stuff, kind of stuff on an arcade stick because it worked with the alpha and you'll still have all of the stuff that you normally get with evercade, the manuals, the things that tell you a little bit more about the game, where, if you were just to watch a YouTube video about it, or didn't have any connection to it, you wouldn't really know much about how it feels to play the game, so you still get that real connection into what this unknown game is to you, potentially, as well as the game that you know like the back of

Phil Szomszor: your hand.

Yeah, I've only just confession time.

I've only recently bought a vs I've had, I've got load of your handheld super pockets.

I'm a handheld gamer.

And yeah, everybody knows, I love the super pockets and the EXP, but yeah, quite looking forward to just being able to see what Space Invaders looks like on a big screen, or Operation Wolf.

Some of these games I think, will be transformed.

And obviously two player as well is an option.

So presumably you'll be able to play Bubble, bubble two player and.

Andrew Byatt: Uh, these arcade we didn't mention that the all arcade versions of these games.

So these are our arcade cartridges, so it kind of lengthens and expands what we're offering on arcade, which is something that loads of people were always asking for.

So Arcade is a big feature, big, big, big thing for this year, with SNK stuff as well.

Yeah, any

Phil Szomszor: favorites in there of yours that you're sort of glad made the cut?

Onto the each onto the carts.

I'm going

Sean Cleaver: to let Andrew go first, because I think I know what he's going to say, but I'm not see if you're right.

Andrew Byatt: Well, I think, as I say, on the first car, Bubble, bubble was a bit of a classic.

And I think on the second car, I'm my favorite game on there is probably New Zealand Story as well, and Rastan, which is a big one as well.

But I think I played that on console originally, rather than arcade.

So be cool to experience it on arcade more than than I have done before.

Really.

Phil Szomszor: What about you, Sean?

Sean Cleaver: Well, I thought you would say where I stand.

So he got there in the end.

He left me hanging right to the end of it, to be perfectly honest, it's going to be really interesting to sort of go back into these games that have evolved over time.

So Space Invaders, I know it sounds really corny to say, but being able to play the original experience of Space Invaders is something that's quite unique, because there has been so many ports, so many reissues, so many different versions of it over the time.

It will be nice.

I'm really excited to go back into that genesis of it in a way of how it how it started, and how it gets that flow and that loop to use to the game development, terms of keeping you in and keeping that high score chasing.

So I'm really looking forward to that on the first collection, second collection, I'm actually quite looking forward to Operation Wolf, because it is on the Super pocket as well, but it is one of those games that was perennially in western arcades.

Yeah, you had the big gun and everything else.

And, you know, I don't think this is a spoiler to say that, you know, we've added mouse support

Phil Szomszor: that, yeah, mouse support going to be on Operation Wolf.

Yeah.

The

Sean Cleaver: plan is that Operation Wolf will be playable support as a as the gum reticule as well.

So that will be interesting for fans to sort of get on that and see what we did.

Because obviously that genre has been quite underrepresented in modern gaming because of the limitations of using an actual light gun on modern screens.

So, yeah, yeah, I'm intrigued in to get back into that as well.

But yeah, I mean all of these.

I mean our arcade line at the moment.

I mean I know we're going to go on to the next ones.

We've got such a incredible selection of games.

And when you look at what's on online stores that you can buy and play the single Games or collections or compilations.

They're always very publisher heavy, so you can always buy, you know, these collections of of the things that you've always played.

But I don't think there is a collection that shows the uniqueness of the diaspora of where these games came from than the collection that we have forever.

Kate, you know, the The Galco games are so uniquely Spanish, the the Taito games are so uniquely Japanese in some places, as well as the ones that became mega hits.

And you look at the things like Atari that just permeate the consciousness, and all of these things are just really even pico arcade, where we're looking at some of the Korean based games that came out, and everything feels like it is such a little time capsule, nugget of the time in a singular space of arcade where there is no fixed abode in any of this kind of stuff, I find it a really interesting encyclopedia, almost, of arcade gaming, and not just, you know, here are all the hits that everybody always really issues, like, here's the hit, but here's all the other stuff to discover.

And, you know, I think those cards are going to be really, really good for that,

Phil Szomszor: and we'll receive some more from tyto.

I mean, I was hoping for Chase HQ, if I'm honest.

But could we, could we cross our fingers for more from tyto,

Unknown: maybe, never say, Never.

Phil Szomszor: Maybe your stock phrases, never say, Never.

Sean, so is, I tried to change

Sean Cleaver: it for a little bit because I've been using it for four years.

And you know, you've got to reinvent yourself from time to time.

All right, bring it back for this.

Yeah.

Never say,

Andrew Byatt: pause there.

Yeah.

Phil Szomszor: And well, for listeners, in case you haven't caught, this title, arcade one and two is going to be released in September 2025, and pre orders for that are opening on the 31st of July this year.

I feel like something from some kind of television teleshop.

So

Sean Cleaver: that's probably where my radio voice comes on for it.

When we do the showcases, it's probably where it is.

Yeah,

Phil Szomszor: let's, let's move on.

Then shall we?

Let's get on to the title bar top.

So I think it's fair to say, if there were bookmakers looking at Blaze and evercade, they would be saying.

The next alpha is going to be Neo Geo, but you've foxed us, or outfoxed us a little bit with a tyto version, so this feels like a bit of a greatest hits for Taito.

So we've got, you know, Bubble Bobble and kadash and Elevator Action A few others there, Puzzle Bobble, which I'm actually pleased to see.

That's probably one of certainly one of mine and my daughter's favorite games from the super pocket Rastan Space Invaders.

There's nine games on there.

Looks pretty epic.

So I suppose first question is, given all the choice, how did you decide the games?

Is that something you do as a group, given that you've got the opportunity, presumably, to put anything on there, how do you decide which ones make it on.

Sean Cleaver: It's an interesting conversation, because, you know, a lot of these games were on the Super pocket, but a lot of people wanted to be able to play these kind of games in a more arcade style format, and they wanted to be able to play two player like puzzle bubble, for example.

You know, now you and your daughter can play together, and that's just, that's just a great experience to have.

We looked at what was available and what we could offer?

We've been pretty open before.

You know, the reason that there are two Capcom alphas is not just because you know that it's cool to have to, it is cool to have to, but we worked within what we were able to do per device and with the franchises that we had.

So we wanted to make sure that in some way, that everybody got the title, one, got the full title experience, while also having a bit of that evercade style, you know, and what works well when you're playing these games with the the real kind of arcade controls, you know, we've got got Space Invaders on there, as you say, Puzzle Bobble Just feels arcade II, just get that kind of real sort of attachment to those games in that form factor.

So it is, there's there's loads of things, and we could have gone deep into a catalog, but you want to be able to bring the highlights that people remember playing on that big arcade thing into something that's much more personable but also accessible.

And I think all of those games really translate well to that form factor.

And

Phil Szomszor: what was the reaction when you presumably, you've shown the previous versions of the alpha to the bosses at Taito?

I mean, it kind of been a hard sell to them to see these games on a bar top arcade.

Andrew Byatt: They're really, really positive about the product.

And you know this thing about trust and handing across their games, which we've established, also seeing on the Capcom models, is really great for that.

I guess people, one of the questions people are going to ask is, why?

Why is there not 20 games or 30 games, or whatever else?

Why have you not put every single game on this product?

I think it's good to, just to give people the context where the this type of arcade space, there's been some sort of standards set by other people at different price points.

And I think these type of companies, they look across a certain maybe arcade one up, or whoever in the US, so they've got three titles on this and five titles and that on it.

So that's the way they look at it.

And they sort of see that being the appropriate amount of titles to put on these machines.

So when you go to license them, and there's a conversation like that that happens, and you sort of push for as many titles as you can get, which is, yeah, we did on Capcom, and people you know, so why they want to ask that question?

And that's the answer.

Basically, really, you are sort of rather value propositions being established, and that's what they want you to work around.

So we gave out we've got as many as we possibly can for people, and this is the kind of result, and it's a real mix of interesting, cool stuff, hopefully,

Phil Szomszor: yeah, pushing your luck as far as you can take it basically as much people think,

Andrew Byatt: oh no, they're trying to sell lots of different units.

But actually it's not really okay.

We want to put as much value as possible in all the products you get as get as far as you can with that, with these people.

Sean Cleaver: But I will say, if you do want to buy them all, please do.

We will not stop you from doing so, yeah,

Phil Szomszor: but there's, I bet there's somebody out there that's got the lot and what, and what have you learned from the initial launch of the alpha?

So it's a little while ago since it's come out?

Have you changed anything about the product spec, or is there anything that you learned about distribution?

What are the sort the learnings that you've taken forward into this model?

Yeah, I think,

Andrew Byatt: I think we I mean in terms of the product itself is fairly similar in terms of its design and all the rest of its different, different shape and things, but, but generally, it's very similar in terms of feature set and the rest of it.

We found that that's worked really well with people.

People happy with the product.

It's reviewed well.

People are, you know, excited and happy to use it, and that form factor, I think you're right when you mentioned logistics and things, when you're moving one of these units around the world, they're fairly hefty and expensive things to move.

And there's a lot of learnings about the way that we, you know, fill containers and and all that kind of like logistic.

Some operational stuff, which, which we've kind of worked on and will continue to work on in this area.

I mean, people are kind of asked, what's the, what's the next evolution?

You're going to do a full size one, and you do this or do that and work that stuff's all under consideration, okay, about demand and and what people want, what they don't, what's what's appropriate, what, what's financially viable, all those kind of things.

So we're learning all the time this particular model, yeah, is a similar thing, and hopefully we'll deliver it more efficiently, and all those kind of things that what we need to do is internal processes in the company, really.

And

Phil Szomszor: is it a case where any of these companies, like tyto don't want to be the first one, or is that an attraction, if you did do a different size, just for argument's sake, is that?

Is that a positive thing for those companies, or negative to they'd rather have a winning formula?

Um, we didn't

Andrew Byatt: discuss doing a full size of this is how it goes back.

Uh, do, as you can imagine, these conversations of title happened before we launched the Alpha.

Okay, yeah, at that point, they knew that.

They knew it, and we'd shown them designs and all that kind of stuff, and there was perhaps prototypes and things, yeah, but they hadn't, hadn't seen the kind of sell through, or any of that sort of information.

So we, yeah, it's all, I think that's the thing.

There's quite a long lag on all this.

So yeah, things that conversations that happened two years ago are coming to fruition now, and in various instances, and some things have moved quite fast.

This move quite fast, I think when we saw showing the Capcom stuff.

So, and

Phil Szomszor: what's it been like in the in the office?

Presumably, you're testing these things together and and sharing the experience.

What have people enjoyed playing internally in Blaze?

Sean Cleaver: There's quite a lot of love for Bubble.

Bubble, to be perfectly honest.

I know it's, it's the it's the standout game, and it's the one that's there, but, you know, it is one of the most fun to play as a multiplayer thing.

So there is a lot of love for that game.

There's, there's a lot of love for puzzle bubble as well.

Was because it's quite a recognizable one as well.

And those, again, you know, like we're saying about the way that the arcades work, and having that kind of form factor and just the pickup and playability of you can just metaphorically put a coin in, start playing and work out what you need to do without any kind of prompt, without any kind of thing, is is quite visually obvious what needs to happen.

So you know, for the office overall, that I think that's really, really really good to sort of get into them.

I know everybody's going to have their own little favorites in the office.

I should have asked a couple of people what they were looking for, really from it.

But I know when we, when we filmed the the trailer for the the Alpha range, that's there's going to be as part of it, the person that we had in helping us with the playing element of it.

Absolutely loves Bubble.

Bubble, like it's just a game they know and they know well, so it's just kind of, yeah, yeah.

I can have that.

These

Phil Szomszor: things would work really well in offices, wouldn't they?

I mean, with where offices previously have had pool tables and things like that, everyone should have an alpha in

Sean Cleaver: there, yeah.

I mean, there is, there is, there are some game publishers, very big game publishers that I know looked at our stuff and thought, can we get some of those into their offices?

Can we do some of that?

I know they there's lots of different people that will want to have those kind of things.

But again, it's, it is one of those things that just kind of looks cool, you know.

And when you've seen all of the people reviewing it, and you see all the people that that covered the arcade news across YouTube and everything else, you know, you're as much looking about what's going on behind them as you are watching them, and that's because all of this stuff just looks cool.

Yeah,

Phil Szomszor: yeah, that's certainly the case.

Well, before we move on to the next announcements, announcement, the evercade Alpha title bar top Arcade is like, you've got a pre order price going for this.

I really am sounding like a

Sean Cleaver: I can take it from you if you want.

Yeah, so there'll be the same pre order price that we had as for the last alpha.

So it's a 199, 99 pounds, 229, 99 euros, and 249, $99 or potentially 259, $99 I think we're working out exactly what that's going to be at the moment around about that price point, but it will be available to pre order from local evercade retailers.

And as we said earlier in the call, opening up fund stock again, that means that people will be able to buy it from fun stock as well.

There's no Limited Edition this time.

So it is very much.

This is this, is it?

Go buy it.

Phil Szomszor: Please feel free.

Excellent.

And that's from the end of May that people can,

Sean Cleaver: yeah, well may 30.

So if, depending when this goes out, go get it.

Phil Szomszor: Now, hopefully on that.

This, this, this will be available just about now, very soon.

Yeah, okay, so let's move on to the Neo Geo side of things.

So obviously, we've had that earlier in the year with the Super pocket and the first cart, which got a lot of people very excited.

But now we've got two new.

Hearts, which I think people will be pleased with.

And confession time, I'm actually pretty new to Neo Geo.

I have played Metal Slug.

That one was familiar to me.

And as well as the which is the fighting game I played for Art of Fighting, I played that before.

They're the only ones that I've really known.

So people can play me afterwards for that, if they want to.

But I know these are, these are really big to people that are into Neo Geo.

And there's two great carts now I've have been looking at them on YouTube in preparation for this.

And the first one, Neo Geo, arcade two, six games, Arter fighting.

Two is one of those Metal Slug.

Two is another one got cross swords, Garou mark of the wolves.

That one looks really good, actually, Ninja commando and Zen Goku two, I'll probably pronounce that wrong.

So that's the first cart, and the other one that's coming is five game karts, which has got ghost pilots.

Metal Slug, three, Samurai Showdown, two, Super Sidekicks pleased to have a football game back on.

Never came.

And the King of Fighters 97 which that one actually looks really good as well.

So there

Sean Cleaver: is actually six games on that.

I think I might have cut off a line when I sent you the Yeah, it's twinkle star sprites, okay, which is a really interesting kind of shooter game that I'm sure everybody will see from this.

But, yeah, sorry, America.

We're bringing another soccer game to overcade.

Yeah, I know you love it.

Phil Szomszor: Well, it reminded me a bit of soccer champ, the one that's on the tyto super pocket.

It looks a bit like that, just looking at some video footage of it, which I really enjoy playing, actually.

Yeah,

Unknown: most, most of

Andrew Byatt: the Arcady soccer game.

So I shouldn't say soccer really is football, right?

It's a, it's pretty Arcadian.

And you know, even if you don't, if you're not a fan of the sport, then it's still fun, right?

Phil Szomszor: Yeah.

I mean, I do love, I mean, Sensible Soccer, to me, can't be beaten.

But actually playing a different type of football game, I think, is also it's just a different experience, and it's one that works well.

If you just want to play it with somebody, like when you play FIFA or something, if the person's played it 10 times more than you, they're just going to beat you.

But an arcade football game is it kind of just lowers the the barriers to entry a bit, somehow.

So I

Sean Cleaver: think, I think that's an interesting thing, that these kind of games, and this kind of style of arcade soccer game is what everybody tried to do, until FIFA, like FIFA was the, the first one that kind of erred onto simulation to a certain degree.

Everything else was about.

You know, we can't replicate the sport Exactly.

So let's go with fast paced let's go with fun to play.

Let's go with cool colors, big graphics, official licenses, if we can.

And, you know, just enjoying playing together with it.

So, you know, unlike I guess, when you play football, soccer or sports simulation games now, which are really focused and hyper focused on recreating every single minutia of what is to play that game as a person.

These are much more about accessible fun.

And you know you like you saying, with Sensible Soccer, you really get that kind of involvement from yourself into it.

You can have a bit more of a laugh.

You can play a bit more games of it than than just trying to earn the most ultimate team points, or whatever they are.

Now, I won't play FIFA for a few years, so I don't know.

Phil Szomszor: And for newcomers like me coming into Neo Geo, why should we be excited by these two cards?

What is it about them?

Andrew Byatt: I think it's quality.

As much as I think these games were just so high quality.

And the huge sprites, colorful, bright, fun, really well engineered.

And I think just, just just, you know, almost all of them are like that.

They're really good, good quality games, whether you play them or not, or before, the experience is fantastic.

And

Phil Szomszor: why are they less well known?

I mean, when you think of a fighting game, if you ask people on the street name a fighting game, they'd probably say street five to two, or maybe Tekken or something like that.

But some of these, they don't seem to have the same recognition.

But are very, very high quality games.

What?

Why is that?

Do you think?

I think,

Sean Cleaver: I think it depends where you look as well, because, yes, I mean, street fights are universal as as is, you know, like you say, tech and, you know, it became such a big launch brand for the consoles and the arcades of the time.

Neo Geo was always one of those things that in the West was something that, you know, people had, but it wasn't as regularly available for people as as you know, some of the other consoles at the time.

So these games were available, and when people played them, they were almost mythical and mystical.

You know, people like, wow, that exists.

It's real.

Wow.

Look at the colors.

It's like being in an arcade, because the experience between home and the arc.

Cade was, was so on par compared to everything else.

But I think a lot of those kind of things also have in a gaming version of transmedia, in a way, have kind of survived quite well, a lot more than some of the other games at the time.

You know, games and franchises still exist from from that era, but you always see the characters from King of Fighters appear across other games, across other things, across other media.

And it always brings tournaments, and things like the EVO tournament will always have something that's focused around these really tight, really well maintained fighting games.

And those communities love those kind of games because that is just a pure representation for them of how they can exert their skill.

And it's something that's, you know, known, been known for years, is refined to such a good degree that, because obviously, you know, you put all these games into an arcade in Japan, people are going to find you out very quick if it's not very good.

So these things had to be at the highest quality.

Yeah.

Phil Szomszor: I mean, you told me that you gave me a very quick outline before we recorded this of what was coming, and before you told me the games, I was thinking, tyto, I'm going to get those two cards.

I'll have a look at Neo Geo.

And now I feel, having just done a little bit of research about it, I feel the other way around.

Certainly.

I think the Neo Geo ones, they do

Andrew Byatt: look really, really good.

Phil Szomszor: Just looking at the response that you've had to the first card.

Obviously you were very, very excited about it when you made the announcement.

But has that excitement been what you expected when people have actually been discussing it on the forums and on the pages, on the YouTube channel and so on?

Has that met your expectations or surprised you in any way.

I

Andrew Byatt: think it's been a brilliant response.

Generally.

I think people, I think some people expected it to come at some point for us, and delivering it, and then delivering it in a fairly big way, has been great.

And as I say, that the sort of breadth of games, the quality and how we were able to present them.

So it's nice to be able to in a physical form.

It's nice to represent them with a manual, those kind of things.

And I think the work that the guys, the art team and everyone's been doing has been top notch.

And I think when you see the see the quality of everything, let's say quality again, when you see it together, it'll be a be really, really well received in when they arrive physically as well.

Phil Szomszor: Yeah, that sounds like you're you've got expectations that this is going to be one of your, one of your big sellers.

Then I

Andrew Byatt: think it's going to be, yeah, up there, certainly, yeah, one of those kind of Temple pole thing.

But then, you know, tyto is and and other stuff we've got coming this year later on, is also pretty good,

Sean Cleaver: okay, I think it's also a really nice, a nice way of doing it that not to subvert expectation, like you said about doing the title alpha, as opposed to another company's alpha, but the the fact that we've gone into this year and not only provided cartridges for people, but also hardware, and that those two in the reception of them haven't been Oh, why are you doing both?

Why can't you just do this?

Why can't, you know, it's been very complimentary of each thing existing in its own right, for its own way, and everybody being able to get that.

And I think that's that's been a really nice thing to hear.

You know, there isn't going to be anybody looking at the Neo Geo cart that isn't going, Oh, I really like the super pocket.

Which one should I choose?

You know, is very much everybody's able to get all of these things, and everybody feels like they are getting something from them.

And with these new cards that we've just announced, we know is going to be even more.

So,

Phil Szomszor: yeah, I think the prevailing expectation, I mean, everyone's very happy with it, but there are always going to be a few naysayers or cynics who kind of go, Well, we're only going to get the suit pocket.

Well, it'll just be an alpha.

And I think the first one was, okay, we're getting a super pocket, and we're getting the car.

I hope there's more, and now there's more.

So yeah, there's no there should be nobody that's unhappy with, with with the outcome of this.

And I suppose there is the possibility of more in view in the future as well.

So it's looking good.

Do

Sean Cleaver: you want to say the line?

Andrew, there you go.

It's your line.

Oh, okay.

Never say never.

Phil Szomszor: It's your it is your line.

Nobody else.

Okay.

Well, we've got these two carts are coming out in October this year, and pre orders are starting at the end of August.

So we've got a little weight before we can do that, but we can go and order, pre order the first Neo Geo car, if you haven't already done

Sean Cleaver: that.

And also, I mean, it's worth saying, you know, the end, the end of June, everybody will have their super pockets in hand as well.

Phil Szomszor: I was just about to say that, Sean, I'm looking forward to receiving mine, my special edition, as we talked about before, so yeah, looking forward to getting that.

Well, we've got one more cart announcement to discuss before we go into some questions, but it's roadcraft, which I've been looking at for a little while, and I have dropped a couple of comments here and there, and discord and whatnot, because it's, it's a game that I saw come out.

And.

I thought, Oh, this is, this is just perfect for evercade.

Surely, this is going to come on evercade.

And it's a game produced by Badger punch games.

And we discussed it actually, with the thalamus chief executive Andy Roberts earlier in this year and his interview.

So I'm really, basically, I'm really pleased to see it on here.

Road crafts a turn based roguelike game, and it's kind of like a follow up, it looks like to rogue 64 which is a secret Game on evercade.

So something that you've you've teased, in a sense, so Well, let's have a little bit of a chat about roadcraft, starting with the question, there are so many independent game companies out there making great independent games.

Why did you, and you can't do everybody, so why did you choose road craft, over and above those

Andrew Byatt: we we'd been speaking to guys since we brought the rogue 64 onto the system, anyway, so we had a kind of ongoing relationship.

And Ryan, who's head of development, he kind of championed the game and then sort of got it in front of us, equally, even before.

So obviously, we've been talking for a while, but we'd you know that it's reviewed incredibly well in terms of, I think, retro game.

I gave it 90 something percent, 94% or something, and they recently won an award for the game as well a debug.

So we know, and you know, we like the game.

We think it's something, it's cool.

So we spoke to them about that and what would be possible.

And I think they've provided us with exclusive version, essentially, for the for the time being, with some extra content, some stuff you won't get on the original so they've put a lot of heart and energy into this and and a load of bunch of features which expand it and make it better.

So we felt like, you know what this is?

This is a game, and because of because it's nature, it's very replayable, right?

You can play over and over again.

There's different characters to play and different experiences have so I think it, we thought, you know, that would work as a single game cartridge, and I think people really enjoy it and get a lot out of it.

And I think four void was our first one, and that's a little bit different in the sense that it was this.

It was so beautiful.

It was a really great story.

And you can replay, of course, this is slightly different, but it will be more.

It should give you that huge value in terms of replayability.

Phil Szomszor: And it's unlike a lot of the games that are on the evercade library.

There's, I can't think of any that are exactly like roadcraft.

There's, it's unique in that respect.

I mean, somebody's going to correct me in a minute, but there aren't a plethora of RPG, turn based games, I'm sure of it, and nothing quite like this that's that's independent as well.

Sean Cleaver: Yeah, I think the closest things outside of obviously, badger punches, own games on our platforms, these are closest to us, some of the original, the C 64 titles, so things like sort of Fargo and stuff where you have that kind of dungeon crawling exploration, so that there's a couple, but like you say that there's not a lot, and this whole feel of, you know, being able to have a unique run every time is quite visual in the way that it's an Amiga game, in that 16 bit graphics, compared to, you know, having to force your imagination A bit more on some of the older graphics.

So I think it's where those games really do hit.

Their strength, you know, throughout all of the years, is, you know, compelling gameplay, but also being able to visually tell the gameplay very well, or in a way that people can connect with it.

And I think this game does it absolutely brilliantly in its color palette, in it, in the way that it spawns its levels, in a way that it provides you unique challenges every time, and then deciding how you want to play it, which with whatever hero you're going to use, you've got a unique way to challenge yourself to do better.

Yeah,

Andrew Byatt: you know, is it cadaver?

Is that the other?

That's the only, okay, yeah, that's right.

ISIS.

I was just looking, looking to see, sorry, Sean, you go.

Sean Cleaver: But then, I mean, like some of the things that we've been able to add to this version.

So not only for new people discovering it for the first time, who were ever Cade fans, but people that know the game very well have something new to play.

You know, there's new monsters, there's new levels.

There's an achievement system in there as well.

And okay, like Andrew was saying about full void, there was a coincidence that we re released that at the same kind of time as Delphine had been released within our catalog.

So we had something that was quite complimentary in what came before it, what it is inspired by it, and all of those kind of things with this game.

One of the things that's a really cool challenge of it is the fact that people will be able to push themselves and challenge themselves to do better, to get higher scores, because it can be quite difficult at points, so you're going to get a lot of playability out of it.

But that comes in the same year that we've had a game like murtop, where a lot of the leaderboards for that game have now been populated by ever K players.

Okay, so you know that?

That whole complimentary thing of replaying again to get better and better and get higher scores and higher scores is, you know, is a really complimentary thing for this

Phil Szomszor: nice and will we see any more independent cards?

Is that something that you still think about, because it we've had a lot of great arcade stuff this year already, is it still part of the evercade universe, because I do love the independent ones.

Yeah, no, you can't get them anywhere else.

It's

Andrew Byatt: a It's definitely part of our our plan to have a mix.

And it, it's almost like every year is slightly different, like this year feels a bit like the year of arcade.

There's a lot of arcade stuff coming, but and we had a kind of indie, you almost had an indie year.

Was that last year?

Sean Cleaver: Was it like year?

I think, sort of 2023, yeah, because we had such a good, good plethora of games available, you know, everything from Good boy galaxy to demons, of astible, all of those kind of things

Andrew Byatt: that year.

And so it's kind of, yeah, we sort of move through these things and expense, what's available watch, but yeah, I think next year, certainly there'll be more more indie stuff.

I think evercade players kind of want to mix.

That really seems to be the thing.

They definitely want to see some indie stuff.

They want to see arcade stuff.

They want to see some kind of home console stuff.

So we try and give that mix and as much as possible.

Yeah, everyone's

Phil Szomszor: got their preferences, haven't they?

I mean, I like indies, but I know other people, they just want up.

They just want loads and loads of tower plan and Neo Geo, which is which is also fine.

I mean, you're trying to appeal to lots of different markets, I suppose.

Yeah, it keeps it interesting, of course, good stuff.

Well, we've got this one coming out.

Well, it's available for pre order, and it's going to come out in August this year alongside Neo Geo arcade one.

So that's a good double pack, if ever there was one.

So that's the showcase.

I know there's some other things which we're probably not going to have time to discuss today in terms of extras.

So just go on to listeners, have a have a watch of that YouTube video, because it'll have all the information about the the added extras and some of the features that are going to sit alongside of these cart and hardware announcements.

So plenty, plenty to talk about, as well as the fact we've already had a showcase.

So let's, let's sort of look a little bit further forward and ask us some other questions around what you're dealing with right now.

So we've, we were just talking, before we've pressed the record button, about some of the uncertainties in the marketplace.

I think, you know, obviously the tariff thing that's going on with Donald Trump is unsettling people in all sorts of ways, not just whether they can get their retro games, but how has that been?

How you, how have you been dealing with that?

Andrew Byatt: Certainly a challenge, of course.

We, we sort of paused things while we worked out what to do, and I think it's difficult.

But for a company like us, it's difficult for lots of companies, of course, but you, you don't want to sort of jump in and start changing prices or changing, you know, all sorts of things, to find out that the following day everything has changed again.

So it's kind of been a bit of a wait and see thing, and trying not to jump and we didn't.

We didn't really want to be the news on all this about having a big, strong move one way or the other while we waited to find out what's happening, the situation's certainly improved for the next few months.

So we're able to kind of open stuff up again, get people pre ordering.

We kind of have the, you know, I'm not betting, man, really, but you kind of hope that the 30% tariffs and things, which is sitting at right now, it'll be better than that going forward, hopefully won't be any worse, and that means it's possible to service the US in different ways.

So we're certainly back on track to getting getting back to doing business in the US, and getting in product to customers and and improving things over there.

We've we've put a lot of effort in.

I mean, last year, one of the criticisms level against us was, was distribution.

So I don't know if people have seen we've made some changes in Europe, so we've got sort of a stronger, hopefully stronger partner and stronger reach.

And then in the US, we've done a sort of similar thing.

So we're working with new distribution partners to give and I think it was really looking fantastic.

And then kind of things, you know, the store 145% tariffs where, you know, things would be hundreds of dollars more for for a console, for example.

So we've had to kind of restart the engine this this last couple of weeks and get going, which we're working on right now, to get product back where it should, where it belongs, into stores and online in the US.

So that's the plan.

So it should be positive.

It should should start coming, coming good, and we'll be in one good shape going forward.

Phil Szomszor: And does all of this, does it have any material difference in Europe or other markets that you serve?

Does is it just a distraction for the US, or is there any knock.

On effect.

Andrew Byatt: It doesn't really affect our European partners and European customers.

You know, there's no impact.

I think we, we manufacture the majority of things that we make in China.

So whether there be any knock on effects, on, on, you know, what's available, stock wise, and all that kind of thing.

But you'd, you'd imagine service would be pretty much, you know, as it always has been, for Europe and improve, not making a difference.

Hopefully, excellent,

Phil Szomszor: good.

Well, I'm sure people are very relieved to hear that, and not just for their ever paid products, but for everything else that you're trying to buy.

So let's just take a change of gear.

This is obviously your anniversary episode, so I'm going to ask you some quick fire questions to finish off the show, and I want you to answer these questions truthfully and ideally without any hesitation, just to what comes to mind.

And we'll start with you, Sean, so you can answer the first one.

First which cart gives you your biggest nostalgia hit?

Sean Cleaver: Still going to be code bosses, I think, okay, yeah.

I mean, yeah, that's the one that came to mind.

First

Phil Szomszor: one for you.

What about you?

Andrew,

Andrew Byatt: biggest nostalgia hit, probably links because of my links history.

Phil Szomszor: I think, I think you gave that answer to a similar question before.

So you're consistent

Sean Cleaver: for any international listeners, he does, he does mean links is in the console, not links or ax to body spray.

Yes,

Phil Szomszor: good.

Well, nostalgia for

Unknown: commercial deodorant?

Yeah.

Phil Szomszor: Well, we're recording this over video, so I can't verify or deny your claim there, but

Andrew Byatt: I'll take your work session.

No, not

Phil Szomszor: exactly.

Well, this one's, let's start for you.

Andrew, which cart was the biggest headache to get published?

I

Andrew Byatt: don't really know.

That's a difficult question.

I think that the headaches probably the wrong word, but certainly the one that's taken the longest has probably been the SNK stuff so far.

And I think actually there's, there's ones which will come out in the future, which will take which, you know, I've been at for similar to time, but yeah, it took a good four years to to get SNK to sort of sign a deal, really, and that's just, you know, constant, back and forth.

And not constant.

That's not true, but, but back and forth.

And, you know, you trying, and, you know, getting them on board, that's, that's probably the longest

Phil Szomszor: and one for you Sean, which is the cart that you found most difficult to market?

Oh,

Sean Cleaver: difficult to market.

It is a tough one.

Um, John, I think they, they've all not actually been that.

I know it sounds like a cop out answer.

I think they've, they've all not been, you know, that bad to to market in that point of view, because we've, we've done a very nice job of presenting them as discoverable things, you know, for people to enjoy.

So there's nothing really that's hard to get over the line.

I think I'll just say the hardest one to market might have been the first Tescos arcade collection.

That will mainly be because everybody went, where's Double Dragon one?

Okay, so I'll probably say that one

Phil Szomszor: is management, yeah,

Sean Cleaver: yeah, I think more than anything.

But yeah.

Now all of these things, I think, are quite, quite nice to market, because, you know, there's always something for somebody to discover from it.

And even if somebody hears a name and it's a name they're not familiar with, or they've had a previous collection they weren't a fan of, or anything else, they'll still want to see what's there and be be impressed by something new.

So,

Phil Szomszor: all right, I'll let you have the answer.

Unknown: It's something cop out.

I know.

I'm sorry, who

Phil Szomszor: in the office is the best gamer?

Andrew Byatt: Or B probably Eric, wouldn't it?

Um, yeah, you can throw anything at Eric.

And he he works out quite quickly and plays.

So he works.

He's doing QA, you know, QA for us.

And so he ought to be good, really.

Sometimes I think he's a bit too good.

Actually, he wouldn't die.

Sean Cleaver: I'd say Pete is also pretty good, but I think both of them are pretty good at certain genres a lot.

Like, you know, they're fans of certain genres a lot, so I won't speak, speak for them too much on it, but yeah, it's not me, that's for sure.

It's definitely not me.

Now, probably wasn't even me 1020 years ago, either, but I would have thought it might

Phil Szomszor: have been, I'd be your worst QA person, because I wouldn't get past the first level.

You'd be like, can you have you finished the game yet?

Well, I'm still on level.

Then there's

Sean Cleaver: merit to that.

There's merit to breaking something as much as you can, you know,

Andrew Byatt: someone breezes through it and doesn't die at all.

Then that's a bit of a problem, which, yeah, we have to remind Eric to die sometimes.

Yeah.

So.

Phil Szomszor: Yeah, and what would you be doing if you weren't running or marketing a company like Blaze?

Andrew Byatt: What would we be doing?

I don't know.

That's an interesting question.

I think what my background was always design development and making things.

So I'd be making something, whether it be retro gaming consoles, or, if it wasn't, that would be something else, probably board games, or something

Phil Szomszor: board games.

Board games comes up a lot amongst game designers.

Yeah, one of those little things I've just discovered that we've done these interviews like, Oh yeah, yeah.

I used to make board games on my own as a kid.

That was my thing before got into being a developer,

Andrew Byatt: systems and process.

You know, it's kind of

Phil Szomszor: yeah, all that's all that.

Now, Sean, what would be your alternate career if you you weren't doing this, I

Sean Cleaver: would be a part time retro gaming YouTube influencer.

I'd probably be out there showing off my collection, talking about stuff, and then bemoaning the fact that there isn't a new cartridge system out there that shows me cool collections of things.

That's a

Phil Szomszor: good answer.

Sean, where's my free stuff?

Sean Cleaver: It's, um, no.

It's like, you know, I've before I came into this, obviously, I was collecting retro games, and, you know, I was always looking at those kind of things.

And people do always say, hey, why don't you do something like that?

Let's go.

I don't have to time.

I like to sleep, you know, I like to occasionally go to the pub with my wife or something.

You know, I can't spend two hours editing a video, but, you know, you know, it's very

Phil Szomszor: time.

It's hard enough doing a podcast.

But yeah, I think video is another level.

What's in your evercade device of choice right now.

So whatever your primary device is, what's in it?

What can't there?

I

Andrew Byatt: think mine is got legacy cane in it right now.

Okay,

Sean Cleaver: mine's actually got road craft in it, because we've been playing it a lot and doing, doing a lot of stuff.

So, yeah, I've been I have a an obsession of trying to get as far as I can with the wizard, which is one of the hardest characters to to do anything with, because it's one of the weakest but it does have a ranged weapon.

And part of my competitive nature, of my brain, is like, I reckon I can do okay with this.

I just need to get into the hang of it.

Doesn't get into the hang of it.

This is

Phil Szomszor: what you call mark.

What you call market research, isn't

Unknown: it?

Sean, this is what we call market obsession.

Phil Szomszor: And final question, what game would you love to see on evercade That might just be out of reach?

So, like fantasy game for you per on a personal level,

Andrew Byatt: you see, Phil, none of it's necessarily out.

We've already discussed this.

This is, you know, it's all in reach.

It's just it takes time, lots of detective work, and all the rest of it, and we, which, I mean, there's obviously some games out there that the challenge is that no one owns them, and that sometimes comes up, but typically they're not the ones.

They're not the your fancy one that you well, sometimes they are, but usually they're not there.

Phil Szomszor: I would have thought there might be a licensing thing, like a movie license.

So you go, well, there's no way I'm gonna get I

Andrew Byatt: think, I think that usually, you know, talking to multiple people, and sometimes those things come together.

That's certainly the hardest ones to do, but we've seen from other people, they've managed to do them for various products.

So that's not then, certainly not impossible.

It's just a

Phil Szomszor: new there's a new Terminator game coming out, isn't there?

Unknown: Friends at bitmap,

Andrew Byatt: certainly.

But the what, the way it works, just on that you've got, you might see a $500 unit, which has got, say, Simpsons arcade game on it.

And what's happened there is that there was, there was enough licensing money in that $500 retail price that people were able to give three different people, someone who owns the music, someone who owns the Simpsons, IP and then Kami, or something, okay, and so you do, you do get those challenges when we're trying to sell a $30 you know, cartridge to people that there's, there's not enough cash to give to all The different people involved and so that, yeah, that's often where we get, we get a little bit stuck with this summer selling stuff, and people are saying, why don't you just do it?

It's like, well, we can't be quite viable, not like now, but who knows?

Who knows what happens in the future?

I'll let

Phil Szomszor: you both off answering that one.

Then we went just to say that nothing is out of reach and everything is just a matter of time.

Potentially

Sean Cleaver: we might need, we might need a slightly bigger step ladder from time to time.

Well,

Phil Szomszor: good stuff.

Well, we'll finish up in a second, but thank you so much for coming on.

I know that this is launch time for you.

It's about to by the time this comes out, it'll be the day that you've launched it.

So we're just getting a.

Slight ahead of time, but I know you'll be busy getting everything ready and finishing off the videos and all the rest of it.

Sean, so, so thanks for coming on, but before we go, I wouldn't be doing my job if I didn't ask you for any hints or cryptic clues of what we could expect for the rest of 2025 is there anything that that you can little teasers that you can give us or something to get people excited.

Well,

Sean Cleaver: there are three more carts to announce, which, you know, we've been quite open.

There's 15 carts this year, so there are still three left to go.

And I guess my cryptic clue on this would be, I've said to everybody that whether it's indie home computer, arcade console, what people are going to be doing this year is eating well, and I think there's going to be a lot of people that would have asked for stuff over many years of what We've been doing, and patients will probably be rewarded.

Oh, okay,

Andrew Byatt: I don't think people are expecting some of the ones we've got coming up.

You know, it's not and as I say, we don't really like to do the obvious.

If we can, if we can help it, it's better to keep it more fresh and interesting.

Yeah, yeah.

We've got some, we've got a couple of really good ones, which we're not quite ready to announce.

Okay, so, well, they're all three, fantastic, of course.

Yeah,

Phil Szomszor: excellent.

Well, that that is, and you haven't said anything about hardware.

I'm not going to push you on that, but who knows, there could be something there as well, but certainly three more, three more carts, and a lot and a lot to check out, because there's some of these things are still to to hit the shelves, hit hit the pre orders.

So we shall, next time we talk, we'll probably be having a bit of a dissect of the what's already come out.

So thank you so much for coming on.

I really appreciate it and the way that you've supported the show.

And I know that the ones, when we do these ones with you, they're always some of the most listened to episodes.

So, so thanks again for joining us.

Unknown: Thank you very much for having us.

Yeah, good

Phil Szomszor: stuff.

Well, all that remains to say is, let's play the music you foreign once again.

Happy birthday to evercade.

Many happy returns.

And if you have enjoyed or are enjoying listening to this podcast, please do give us a review.

I don't often remember to ask, if I'm honest, so please do go to Spotify or Apple podcasts.

Give us a review if you're enjoying it.

You can also comment on Spotify, actually, and feel free to follow us on social media.

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I think that's just it for now.

Go and say hello to us there and see you around.

Take care.

You.