Vinay Shandal: I'm Vinay Shandal, and this is Pitching Progress. Today, we're talking about district heating and cooling. Something most people don't know exists, but if you live in a city, it might be going on right beneath your feet.

Carlyle Coutinh...: We collect all the heat from all 100 buildings in the city of Toronto, and we preheat the city water before it goes out to those hot water tanks. That cools our water down and goes and picks up all that heat. So, it's just a network of moving energy.

Vinay Shandal: That's Carlyle Coutinho, the CEO of Enwave, a company jointly owned by the Ontario Teachers Pension Plan and IFM investors. Enwave focuses on finding creative, sustainable, and above all, economical solutions to the complex energy needs of municipalities across Canada.

Carlyle Coutinh...: We're not a one-size-fits-all, so we want to understand a lot of different technologies really, really well so that we can figure out which one makes most economic sense, given the current circumstance and regulatory framework and geographical framework.

Vinay Shandal: Those different technologies include deep lake water cooling, geo-exchange, converting waste to energy, and they're being rolled out at a pretty impressive scale in partnership with cities and large developers. But the once hot real estate market has recently been going through a downturn. So, how does a company like Enwave that seems especially vulnerable to shifting political and economic winds, help to navigate through? Let's find out.

I got to admit, everyone I talk to in Toronto, and more broadly, doesn't understand the depth and the scale and the presence of the assets that you guys own. They've heard the name, Enwave. They've heard of you because you're so famous and charming.

Carlyle Coutinh...: Yeah.

Vinay Shandal: But what the business does, how it works, people on the street couldn't explain it. Just break down for me, what is district heating and cooling, and what does Enwave do for the people that are customers of Enwave?

Carlyle Coutinh...: First of all, the way you introduce this, you pretty much told me they know who I am but they don't know my business, so I haven't been doing my job. So, thanks for the feedback.

To take it to, what do we do? In the simplest form is, you think about the electricity sector and hopefully people do understand what happens in electricity. So you generate, you distribute, so you send it across the transmission lines into the centers that actually use the energy. You have local distribution, the LDCs that actually push it out to the customers, and then you have meters and transformer stations or whatever so that it could be used by a building. So, that's the electricity sector. Very simple.

Vinay Shandal: Yep.

Carlyle Coutinh...: Well, we're the thermal equivalent. So you need heating in your building, you need cooling in your building, we do the exact same thing. Smaller scale, community scale. We generate thermal energy through hot water, chilled water. We push it around through pipes underneath the city, and then we have transfer stations, energy transfer stations. What's amazing about what we do, just like electricity, is you can't build a nuclear station or run of river big water or wind for one house. Well, you can't build deep lake water cooling for one house.

Vinay Shandal: Right, right. Well, really, but what about Drake's house?

Carlyle Coutinh...: Well, it's too far from the lake. That's the problem with Drake's house, but-

Vinay Shandal: Okay, okay. He's got to move. If he moved, you would build it for him.

Carlyle Coutinh...: If he moved, we'll build it for him. [inaudible 00:03:22].

Vinay Shandal: Okay, okay. Drake, Drake, just so you know, Carlyle will build you your own district cooling and heating. Okay.

Carlyle Coutinh...: There we go.

Vinay Shandal: There, you've committed.

Carlyle Coutinh...: So we're able to take large scale technologies that are more efficient and better, and be able to provide it for downtown dense neighborhoods, and that's the traditional district energy. But we have to take it one step further and think about single family homes and think about better ways of deploying energy as the world is changing, and everybody requires better ways of doing things.

Vinay Shandal: Yep, yep. So basically, a central source of heating and cooling, a bunch of pipes running underground, connecting to buildings and generating heat and cooling.

Carlyle Coutinh...: Basically.

Vinay Shandal: Yeah, yeah. How is that a climate play?

Carlyle Coutinh...: It's a climate play at the end of the day because it's more efficient. So, when you think about the ability to generate for a whole number of buildings, you can do it more efficiently if you just use the same technology, no matter what. So, let's start with that.

Now, let's think about the more scale you get. Can you go out and get different technologies and different ways of doing it to be able to generate better or more efficiently or climate positively or what have you? So if you think about deep lake water cooling, deep lake water cooling takes north of 60 megawatts off the grid. So basically, we just take water from Lake Ontario really deep, really cold, and instead of using chillers, we just pump it around the city. So, all of it is pumping and that is used to chill buildings. So, remove the heat from all those buildings and that air conditions all the buildings. Again, far more efficient. So, what ends up being more efficient happens to be climate positive as well.

Vinay Shandal: Okay. Okay, if I'm a building operator, Downtown Toronto, connected to your network, do I have an alternative, or?

Carlyle Coutinh...: I think that's the beauty of what we do, is we do it on a commercial basis. So, any new building that wants to come on has a choice. You can self-generate or you can connect to our system, no one's forced to do either. So, we have to put together a compelling proposition as to why it makes sense for them to connect to our system. Now when you think about it, it's not just about energy, it's, how do you build a building better?

Vinay Shandal: Right.

Carlyle Coutinh...: So when you look at places like Toronto where there isn't a lot of space and you get these tall, slender buildings and 90-story buildings, it's one is, you can use space better. Two, you can build faster because you're actually feeding from the bottom so you can get people in the building faster. So for a builder, there's a lot more economic benefit, plus, it's like that kicker. Plus, you're doing something that's good for the environment. So, there's so many levels of value that go beyond energy.

Vinay Shandal: Okay. So I'm an investor, I'm thinking about investing in your business. How do I think about the market? Just in my head, there's existing assets you have with your existing customers. As you said, long-term contracts, cash flow yielding, the alternatives aren't that attractive for the reasons you said. Great, that's a nice, stable core of your business. It sounds like there's hooking on new customers. So new buildings come up on the network, get those hooked up, that sounds like a great ROI for you and for them. There's net new kind of greenfield for new developments. There's expansion of your network, M&A. Just give me a sense of how you break down this market for you as you look at growth.

Carlyle Coutinh...: Growth comes in on a lot of different levels. So where we have assets in place, the first idea is, maximize the value of the asset. So we have generation through deep lake water cooling, we've put in thermal batteries. We figured out how to expand this renewable asset being the lake as much as possible. So now it's, let's go out and continue to connect buildings to that very accretive growth.

In a city, five years ago, Toronto had the most, 150 cranes in the air. We expect with what's going to happen in the future, the cranes are going to come back. It's a little bit of patience working through cycles, but we know there's need, and so we're going to keep on seeing connections happen. And even through a down cycle, we've been connecting buildings every single year. So in the last five years, we've connected over 25 buildings. So, we're still continuing to, some of them are new, some of them are retrofit. Older buildings need to be upgraded, so we connect them to the system.

Vinay Shandal: So you're saying ripping out an old building, ripping out the existing onsite generation they have, boilers, heaters, HVAC, and switching to Enwave is a better ROI than just putting in that new product?

Carlyle Coutinh...: Well, let me give you an example. Deep lake water cooling started 20 years ago in 2004, 22 years ago now. And at that time, yes, I mean, there's a lot more buildings have been built, but what deep lake water cooling did, originally it was a city of Toronto owned with a pension, is they went out to all of their own buildings, which already existed and they retrofit them all to put them in. Right?

Vinay Shandal: Interesting.

Carlyle Coutinh...: And so for, let's just talk Cadillac Fairview, for example, in the TD Center. The TD Center was retrofit, it got deep lake water cooling. Within the last 10 years, Mattamy Homes signed a lease at a space that didn't exist before at the top of TD Center where they actually put their office. Well, that was built out because there were no chillers and there were no cooling towers out there, they removed them all.

Vinay Shandal: Interesting.

Carlyle Coutinh...: And when they removed them all, they built that office space, and that office space is on floor 50X, 56.

Vinay Shandal: Okay, okay. So what used to house the infrastructure is now... yeah.

Carlyle Coutinh...: Some of the most expensive real estate in the city, right? Beautiful views and beautiful area.

Vinay Shandal: [inaudible 00:08:43].

Carlyle Coutinh...: So, that's real value.

Vinay Shandal: Is this obvious to them that this is an option or do you need to be out there Salesforce style, just hustling and making sure these people know that this is an option?

Carlyle Coutinh...: We're doing a lot of work talking to the real estate developers to think, "What can you do differently?" What's amazing now is what you'll find, especially in the city of Toronto and I think everywhere, is that there's so much pressure on real estate, on commercial real estate. And now they have to think differently. And real estate tends to be the most archaic sector. So this sector with lease innovation, it's actually, I think, at the bottom of the list, but it's going to climb fast. And the reason why it's going to climb fast is because you have strong institutional investors that are there. So they've been able to weather the storm, they're seeing the need to be able to invest and reinvest and think differently about it. So, I think we're going to see a lot more of this value and different ways of thinking about things because at the end of the day, the tenants drive it all and the tenants are asking for it, so they're going to go out and deliver it.

Vinay Shandal: As I'm listening to you, Carlyle, if I had to rank highest and best use of capital in your business, it sounds like getting retrofits or new buildings onto the existing network is the highest and best ROI.

Carlyle Coutinh...: By far, yeah.

Vinay Shandal: Then it's, I'm assuming micro expansions of the existing network to bring other parts of the city on online as the core expands.

Carlyle Coutinh...: Yep.

Vinay Shandal: And then from there, is it pure greenfield, or... yeah.

Carlyle Coutinh...: Sorry. Am I doing this interview, are you doing this interview? Because you seem to have all the answers right now, man. So I mean, greenfield is a different... You think about it same, we used to call them, you have your core on pipe growth, and then you have these sort of expansions that are beachheads. So if you think about, how did we get to The Well?

Vinay Shandal: Now, for people that I don't know, what is The Well? Just-

Carlyle Coutinh...: The well is a large live, work, play, relatively new development downtown Toronto, six residential towers, one commercial tower, about 800,000, I think, square feet of retail. And we actually put a thermal battery underneath it underneath P6. So right down 60 feet below Lake Ontario level, two million gallons of water that actually uses, expands the value of deep lake water cooling, and are Green Heat in the wintertime. So, we have a large scale asset, unlike anything before.

But when we were thinking about that development and that, how do we think about getting out there is like, 3.2 million square feet that you know is going to be a hub of a neighborhood is a good reason to actually take on a large scale expansion. So, The Well in and of itself didn't justify the cost of all the infrastructure to get there, but we knew that the well-being there, there was going to be a lot of expansion around it and thinking through patience and time. And by the time we connected The Well, we had 14, 15 other contracts already signed and developments all over the place that enabled us to have that step jump. Right?

Vinay Shandal: Right, right, right.

Carlyle Coutinh...: So you have your baseline and then everything else becomes the accretive growth.

Vinay Shandal: That's not like a little network expansion, that was a pretty big... Yeah, yeah.

Carlyle Coutinh...: No, that's in the hundreds of millions. Right?

Vinay Shandal: Yeah, yeah.

Carlyle Coutinh...: So, you have to have an appetite to take on some risk and to have a future long-term view, and that's the alignment with the shareholders, the pensions. It's like you have a long-term view of value.

Vinay Shandal: Yeah, yeah. What's your outlook for new development? I mean, it's been sluggish. Real estate investors have taken a bath since COVID. Now, Prime Minister Carney is in office, big hype around new infrastructure projects, development, housing. Where's the puck going for you in terms of outlook for new development?

Carlyle Coutinh...: At the end of the day, businesses are like ours, you look at it from a macro basis. So, what are the macro factors and what are the values that you're underwriting here? So you're underwriting whether Toronto's going to be an attractive place to work and live. Right? Are people going to continue to develop in Toronto? You think about the energy markets, the requirements for electron, the requirements for energy and for growth, just generally. People can't put two and two together as to how we can keep saying we have a housing crisis but it's so hard to build housing. Right? And those are the things that Prime Minister Carney and others are working towards, right?

So, those macro factors live very strong and now let's compound it even more. The province is building transit. They then say around these stations there has to be X amount of density. So, looking at all those macro factors and seeing what the investments the governments are making into infrastructure, it aligns up to say, can I say it's going to happen in '26 or '27 or '28? That's not within my control. Do I know that it's going to happen and it's progressively going to get pushed? Absolutely.

Vinay Shandal: Yeah. Let's talk about transit. So, Transit Commission wants to build an extension to the Metro. That transit combined with the prime minister's focus on rapid development of housing, modular construction, probably smaller footprints. Does partnering with that developer make economic sense for you? I.e., we're going to come and provide a central source of generation, build a network that connects all these buildings and homes and commercial buildings. Is that in the cards for you or do the economics just not make sense for your business?

Carlyle Coutinh...: So, we have a couple of them. So we have Etobicoke Civic Center, which is with the City of Toronto now. It's not based on transit per se, but it's based on a civic center being built by the city and the city going out and procuring housing, which is part of the housing crisis and what's needed and we're doing a geo-exchange based district out there. So, those are the types of things we're doing under those structures. In Mississauga at Lakeview Village with LCPL, Lakeview Partners and Argo, who's the developer, supposed to be between 12 and 16 million square feet being built out, and we're building a district for them as well.

What needs to happen for those types of developments is you really need alignment and you need alignment between the municipality, so the government, the developer, and then an energy developer who can actually go out and develop. And the reason why you need that alignment is because there's going to be give and take from all of them. The municipality has to think differently about how they actually procure and develop and provide their approvals and whatever it is for this village that they're trying to build. The developer has to understand they can't develop this village the exact same way they developed the last one.

So, I'll give you a real example here. Typically, municipalities require two meter setbacks from their infrastructure, and that's just literally a liability issue. Two meter setbacks is you can't have a utility tunnel. It means you need another tunnel for this infrastructure, another tunnel for this infrastructure, which means the cost just keep going up. So when I say municipality thinks different, municipality has to think, okay, am I willing to give and take a little bit and think differently about my two meter setback to create a lot of value so that's commercially, the district energy is a commercially viable solution.

Vinay Shandal: Yeah. Okay, Carlyle, we spoke a lot about growth and that's the fun stuff, but what about sweating the assets you own, the unit economics of your assets? Just walk me through what drives economics for your existing network.

Carlyle Coutinh...: In our world, Enwave specifically, we have deep lake water cooling, that's sort of our nuclear. It's a base load asset that we want to utilize the most of it as possible. But we all know that your heating and cooling doesn't, you don't just turn it on and keep it the same all the time. It depends on whether you're in the house, you're out of the house, what's going on. So it has a curve, winter, summer, how it gets used. So, effectively with assets like that, just the more demand you get on the system, the more economics you get or the more you can pull off of those assets for economic benefit. Right? So that's why we say we have to keep on thinking about, how do we expand that system and get more scale, because more scale means more value. Right?

And then when I started in 2012, we had three plants. We now have 13 plants in Toronto, right? So there's a lot of economic dispatch decisions that come with optimizing to be able to do this as efficiently and cost effectively as possible. So, there's levels and levels of value that can be created around these because of the complexity of assets.

Now, take it one step further. What we recently did was we commissioned our Green Heat plant, which is a large scale heat pump plant at our Pearl Street Energy Center. So, what that does is it takes the water, all the heat that we collect from our chilled water network, and then it upcycles it for useful heating and pulls off cooling as well. So, it's five times more efficient than a typical connection because you get useful heating and cooling from it. Right? So we're trying to figure all these things out because the more value we can create, whether it be from the electricity market or from the thermal markets or whatnot, the more value we can share with our customers and the more we can retain for ourselves as well and our shareholders. So, we have to keep on making that pie bigger and thinking bigger about it.

Vinay Shandal: There's this notion that your main energy source is the lake, but you guys do, as you just said, use heat pumps, electricity, other fuel sources, because there's volatility in those commodities, you're exposed to those given demand at peak, etc. Are you able to just pass those costs through or are you absorbing some of that peak overage?

Carlyle Coutinh...: So the way we operate our business and the way we go out to a customer is we think through, there's a model of avoided costs, this is what you would've put in place, and we try to parallel that. We'll mimic those economics, but we'll take on the heavy capital and we'll take on a little bit of risk on the actual consumption profile and managing our system to optimization. So yes, typically we pass the cost through, but there is risk. I mean, we're incentivized to be as efficient as possible.

Vinay Shandal: Yeah, so there is upside for you in driving that efficiency. Yeah.

Carlyle Coutinh...: And I've been across a lot of different systems across North America and a lot of them have come from real legacy businesses that were rate regulated at time or whatever. And there is a different mindset when you have a, hey, just pass it through.

Vinay Shandal: Yeah, yeah, yeah, you have to, actually, yeah.

Carlyle Coutinh...: There's economics around it.

Vinay Shandal: [inaudible 00:18:24] the assets. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Carlyle Coutinh...: Exactly, so.

Vinay Shandal: So, what are the biggest behavioral changes either on the Enwave side or on the customer side that can really improve efficiencies for everybody and like you said, allow you to share value, not just with Enwave investors, but also your customers?

Carlyle Coutinh...: Yeah, I'm going to take this to a different place than where your question probably came from.

Vinay Shandal: Well, you did say that you're the one who's interviewing me, so go ahead. Go ahead.

Carlyle Coutinh...: Yeah. Well, listen, I'm taking control over this thing now, so.

Vinay Shandal: What's your question?

Carlyle Coutinh...: What I'm finding in the marketplace these days is, we need to work with our customers. We need to know their businesses better, right? We have five data centers on our system. They use energy differently than commercial buildings do. We have a number of hospitals on our system that use it for different reasons and different resource, not just space cooling. So there's such a broad diversity of use, and the more you can understand them, the more you can actually optimize your system to thinking through, how do you create value? It's the more you understand your customer, the more we can actually manage to best outcomes.

Vinay Shandal: Yeah. Let's talk about data centers, because I think one of the opportunities, and I didn't realize you had five on your network, Carlyle, but where are you on that journey? What are the biggest opportunities you see? What's your vision for the business in that area?

Carlyle Coutinh...: There's a huge trend obviously in building data centers and how do they get their energy and how do they get their cooling and water consumption and all those things that are out there. I find what's going on, especially I'll say in Ontario and the GTA and different circles that I'm in, is that we'll sit and it's that hammer and nail thing. It's like, whoa, they use a lot of water. We can eliminate all of them. We should get data centers built in dense neighborhoods so that we can just pull off the heat and remove the water need and all that stuff and we solve all the problems. Well, we're not actually thinking about the data center's business model. And you have to think through their business model and say, "Well, why should they show up here where the real estate's more expensive? They don't have as much of it. The fiber connection might not be there." There's a whole bunch of things.

So when I think about our business, when I think about AI in our business, I think we need to embrace it for our business. When I think about the data centers and the gold rush around data centers to chase them, I think we need to figure out what value we actually bring to it and execute on where we actually bring value, not just say, "Hey, you guys need to stop using water, therefore use it." That's not the way to look at it, right?

Vinay Shandal: Right.

If I'm underwriting this business, what policy can really change the course of your growth trajectory? Would energy efficiency mandates for buildings that are more strict really tip the scales in your favor, or is there already enough of that in place to-

Carlyle Coutinh...: So, there's an existing business and then there's a accelerated expansion of district energy generally. Right? So, putting a price on carbon was something that did turbocharge some of the conversations. And even though the residential carbon tax has been removed, it hasn't changed the fact that people are actually thinking differently about it and thinking about long-term about their buildings and long-term asset owners and saying maybe there is a different way.

So, and in the world of purpose-built department, commercial, those that own assets for a long period of time versus condos look at it differently. You have the large-scale condo developers that have been around for a long time and often their names are on their companies and they really believe in what they're doing and they innovate. And you have a lot of smaller ones that are fast followers of what the larger ones are doing, which is great. And then you have others that are trying to make money and flip land as fast as possible, get in and get out and it's about creating wealth, it's not about creating the future of how people live in a valuable asset for long term. So, you get all types. With the different municipal standards and provincial standards that get out there, it forces all of them to play by the same rule book and think differently, which I think is a good thing.

Vinay Shandal: Yeah. Carlyle, everyone's heard the name Carlyle, some people have heard the name Enwave, and people have also heard about this thing called deep lake cooling, but I don't think many can explain what it is. And it's actually, as I've learned about it, Carlyle, a pretty unique feature that you have in your business. Can you share more about what's so special about deep lake cooling in the city of Toronto and how that works?

Carlyle Coutinh...: Sure. I mean, as I said it before, and we say it often, it's Toronto's best kept secret, and we got to do a better job of educating the world on what we do, because we have folks that come in from all over the world to Asia and everywhere to come and see the system because they want to be able to replicate it. It's the largest of its kind in the world, so we're pretty proud of it.

But in simplicity, you go deep into the lake, the temperature of the water is very cold, it's four degrees Celsius around that year round. So, what we were able to do 20 years ago, and before my time with some great visionaries both from the city and from our business, were to think through, can we extend our pipes from city water out four or five kilometers? So it's literally five kilometers, 86 meters deep out there, and they pumped water into the island filtration plants. That water comes into a pumping station on the landside and over there, there's an energy transfer that happens. And effectively, we collect all the heat from all 100 buildings in the city of Toronto and we deposit it into the city water. So we preheat the city water before it goes out to those hot water tanks.

Vinay Shandal: Wow, wow.

Carlyle Coutinh...: Energy sharing at scale again, that cools our water down and goes and picks up all that heat. So, it's just a network of moving energy. So, that's what's actually happened back in 2004 when we commissioned it. Back there, there was challenges with mussels and zebra mussels in the city water system and we were able to fix that by going way out five kilometers, so it actually served a purpose for city water as well. City also is one of the biggest real estate owners, so you're able to connect. So you know you have an off take, so you can connect all the city buildings and investor buildings. And since then, last year, we actually expanded it and put another pipe in the lake, which even bypassed city water to provide us greater capacity and greater control.

Vinay Shandal: Interesting.

Carlyle Coutinh...: City water also lives in a different world where you're now optimizing with their process load. When do people need water? Daytime, nighttime, morning. And so, now we have more control to be able to optimize our asset between the city water side and the potable water side.

Vinay Shandal: I'm going to ask you about a headwind in your business, which those of us that live in Canada experience it every day. I mean, getting stuff done in this country is not easy.

Carlyle Coutinh...: It's an obvious challenge, and what I'd say is, when we start out with any of these projects, none of them do we think will take this long. You have this optimism that you live with and you never realize, like our project in PEI took eight years to even get to paper.

Vinay Shandal: Wow.

Carlyle Coutinh...: And through so many different iterations and three changes in government, four premiers, three different CEOs of the Energy Corp out there. And what I've noticed just in my role over the last five years, especially, but let's even go back 10 years, is you go to these different functions with a bunch of senior executives and they'll ask you, "What is the biggest top five concerns of the CEO?" And every year, I'm sure you see this, is that it changes so rapidly. Climate change was the top one, I don't know, five, six, seven years ago. And then there was AI and there was tariffs and then there was pandemics, and then there was, and then there was, and then there was. Right? And I say the structure of our business, very specifically the shareholders we have and the fact that you have a long-term socially responsible-minded type of investor behind you, is that you have the force to keep pushing and not giving up. And then you have political force and scale of large-scale institutional investors.

What's beautiful about what's going on right now too, is the government of Canada is asking the pensions and the large-scale investors to invest in Canada. So there's an aspect to say, "Hey, listen, we do want to invest in Canada, make it a little bit easier for us." Right?

Vinay Shandal: Yeah. Carlyle, five years hence, we're at Drake's Lake Ontario side house, cooled, a nice summer day by Enwave's infrastructure, enjoying a nice dinner and celebrating. What are we celebrating?

Carlyle Coutinh...: That's a good question because I was asked recently, "What are your goals? What does the business look like five years from now?" And five years ago, I would never say we were here. And 10 years ago, I wouldn't have said, because the market is changing so much. Right? If I said, "What could we be celebrating?" We could be celebrating the idea that it's not just what we're doing, what we're building, it's the fact that other people are doing it too. And I hope it's not just us at the table, I hope there's a lot of people at the table. And I hope we're just celebrating general success that the economy's moving forward, that people feel safer in our worlds, that there's less homelessness and there's more housing and we've all contributed and made it a point to do our part to make our society and our country a better place to live.

Vinay Shandal: Wow, I love that, Carlyle. Man, thanks so much for being on the show today. It's been great to have you.

Carlyle Coutinh...: Thank you. It was a pleasure.

Vinay Shandal: That was Carlyle Coutinho, CEO of Enwave, a district energy company that's using innovative solutions to heat and cool our cities more efficiently. They're empowering developers and governments to find ways to build better and have a value proposition that they feel is robust enough to weather any political or economic headwinds.

Folks, that was the final episode of season one of Pitching Progress. It's been an absolute pleasure bringing you the stories of companies working on sustainable fixes for some of the world's most pressing issues. And as we begin work on season two, we'd love to hear feedback from you on the businesses you'd like us to cover. Please, shoot us an email at pipe@bcg.com. That's pipe as in P-I-P-E at bcg.com. Also, be sure to like and subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Spotify so you don't miss it when we start releasing new episodes again. I'm Vinay Shandal, this has been Pitching Progress, and we'll be back in about a month's time with season two, where we'll feature new businesses with new climate solutions.